as well on Zoom we'll skip around a little bit here we'll come back to the meeting minutes um we're going to get right to the extension and the Order of conditions requested by James aass of uh water and wetlands in order conditions followed by D file 16282 for vegetation Management on Kendall Pawn is somebody here to represent yes how you [Music] doing can just tell us we I we met you at the trade show but you just want to kind of explain the company and what you're doing here gotcha well I'm Scott Conrad uh I'm an aquatic biologist for water and Wetland we manage multiple Municipality Water uh water bodies all over the state and all over the region um for aquatic based plant species and things like that um at Kindle Pond we're asking for an extension to continue the program that we been uh been doing since last year um it's kind of a maintenance program is what we're doing uh for mil oil species and for plad w um so are you still using the same chemicals yes yeah same exact I know that we good uh go prior meeting just one to off there any changes no not at this time there so basically you're doing the same thing yes just every company doing the same process yeah yeah and you're Welling you know you got a couple more weeks which is nice to come before us April what's the date April 13th I I didn't oh second page yeah J course another three exension anybody have any questions or comments we go over this every three or four years they come before us and they usually review all their documents again and the chemicals that they use nothing's changed what he's telling us so any questions or comments anything is it getting any worse no it's it's getting getting a little bit better actually so but it's kind of like kind of like mowing your lawn almost is what I would say is you just have to continue to do it this the maintenance program at this point okay anybody in have any questions uh someone like to make a motion to approve the requests for a threeyear extensions to water land for K motion made second second all in favor no oppos thank you you guys later in the week uh next is a notice of intent uh Contin from February 12th and the 26th regarding the um no 10 followed by David Ross for Robert laier for the property located at 12218 Road South somebody to represent yeah I yeah most just for the the D the third party yeah I spoken the phone a couple times came in the office and what do you have for us um as you said at the last meeting you you uh requested I move the addition and the garage of the 60t Zone which we started to work on and we got the U comments from the D and it looks like the boing vegetated Wetland delineation line is still an issue so I um I propose having a third party uh review it and I I'd just like the commission to give me um three names of Consultants that would give me a fair and impartial review of it and I i' just like to um ask that the um Consultants didn't work with or have a previous association with uh Elizabeth Bonas was the butter and also um did work for mass auto bar well that narrows down a lot of them there's not that many that haven't just so you know so we'll give you three but I can't go into who's used them in the past I mean you know how that goes I and I understand why you're asking but okay we'll give you three or four yeah more the better okay okay yep and then um go from there yeah thank you I have one I think you might like too that um we've used in the past I think Bucky would be great with him yeah he he did back in the day he did a lot of work for the city of Garder over by the courthouse he's coming out of Amherst he's really good like I don't think he's done anything for either of them so he's reasonably priced you just got to make sure you can get him to commit he's pretty busy okay they all busy yeah he's been great over the years yeah I'm just asking for somebody that's fair and yeah he's more than fair okay great thank you I don't know when we'll be able to get we I can work with Doug this week and get okay yeah someone like to when's the next meeting the the E yes someone like to make a motion to continue um this hearing until April 8 I'll make that motion all in favor I let us goes okay thank you [Music] Norman next is another continuance for March 11th uh on 10 not 10 fed by tyan B on behalf of the city of Gardner and tror buard for 130 Crystal Lake Drive North Central pathway nature trail connector somebody here to represent yes I Am SE Tor from [Music] time how I'm doing all right apologize Alex is uh got flu he got a pretty good whole family oh boy um so I didn't want to bring it here thank you um so we sent um a memo last week which I have um copies of which I would like to pass around is that this yeah somebody's doing budget cuts over here does black and white I got okay and these are the plans that show revisions to um for culbert for the 36 in reinforced concrete cul and the second is the Wetland mitigation area that was proposed by Doug Doug and I well by the commission and Doug and I went out and met on Thursday th morning Thursday Thursday morning to discuss it um and one other thing here is the last page of the memo has the uh a figure for the Alternatives and so this is 11 M 17 it just might be easier to see on that and I do I do have uh House of a larger PL if you do need to see at are too small just just let me know I can put them up on the board I can start my comp if you like to um but generally so there there's two things that we discussed at the last meeting was Alternatives um and why we came to the decision to propose this route over any other which one the the the proposed grout that we're proposing in the no T okay sorry yep which is um it's option top of the head it's option four take them all can you see it or do you have a copy no I don't the the memo that we sent last week the last page is is this print out I only just got that FR so what happens I can pull my computer well when you get it late not everybody's a chance to look at it so I wanted to go over first you the Alternatives and why they were selected so route one which is the red route which the original route that was proposed for the N uh North Central Parkway um this includes a switch back which um is generally advised against on on this type of Trail um and that it would require going through the National Grid um um driveway up and they have flat outet no they won't allow it um uh route two the green trail um goes along the existing nature trail along the bank in Crystal Lake but would acquire a land swap or easement with the walkin Family Trust which um at this time is not feasible is is just likely just not going to happen Ru three the yellow is the uh proposed right Route 3 is the proposed uh connector trail that we discussed at the we proposed at the last meeting um and root for the purple um leverages the existing in nature trail but continues further to the north through a wooded parcel to avoid the wetlands near the National Grid grid substation where the proposed Trail is located um the issue is that it becomes uh it falls into the offer of Crystal Lake which is an outstanding resource water protected as a drinking water supply by DP and will require complex permitting with DP to the 401 Water Quality process which could be denied at any time that's all I have to say is water quality you know drink water you're out um and this still keeps the path in certain parts of the no build no service areas the fifth route the orange route would extend along Park Street and as we had discussed there's safety concerns because the street is so narrow and um there are some very steep grades in that area and it would perhaps POS difficulties for people who have hard time walking or have to use um Mobility assistance devices which uh so those two reasons those are the reasons why it was chosen to to not pursue that route um the Wetland Crossing this part of the next um is a twt wide hydraulic connection on the third page we have just a picture looking up the channel looking from the lower Wetland up to the to the northern Wetland so this is this is where we're where we're walking just um and so it's proposing to increase upsize the PIP from a 24 in pipe to a 36 in pipe with um natural substrate uh and backles to help maintain that substrate within the um pipe um we can as we had discussed there was an issue or concerns with the 8% grade and to mitigate that we we could do this if if if you so choose we'd have to armor the end of the pipe which would be more wet than have um don't think it's necessary at this point but if that is of concern for worrying about scouring in the lower Wetland we could Implement that as [Applause] well um so the replication area that we went out and and saw what we did was in the field we we flagged out the area of the extent of the na that area came out to about 4500 ft following Mass dos calculations for how much England Wetland replication cost it's about $95 uh a square foot which comes out to about an extra $45,000 on the project you know we don't care about cost I'm just I'm just letting you know that's that's so block the cost right out right for now don't forget we're all we're all for this we're trying to just figure it out but sure normally cost shouldn't be discussed with us on this type of sure um so what we did was is um from the commission's concerns for the long linear shape of the wet replication area we redesigned it into a liver shaped area um right now equaling the same replication square footage of 270 ft for the loss of 80 Square ft which I think is a 3.4 to1 ratio believe that's how talk it's in here but yeah um and so that's that's that's essentially what this me has covered uh the alternatives for why the proposed path was chosen uh modification to the area and Alignment the the the shape of the Wetland replication Clos area and that is all and I'm happy to take any questions that you have you mentioned the area was maybe used as a dump that true there's a lot of trash out there a lot of trash I we did see you know there's like be if you're look at this map here yeah be over on this side of it was used by the city as a dump they dumped everything in there yeah I mean we saw tires we saw I think was a microwave and there there's some don't want to see in there yeah there's some yeah there's some there's some folks camping out there too so there's a lot of debris from that I I I think you can we send can you just tell the police to go down there and kick out who's camping there they every year we have to do it over FR Brook too yeah I saw we saw like one or two at least yeah there were two sites one was but one was there was something there like a pitch tent they look new yeah just send something to the police department I haven't checked that in pearly book what always happens um I guess I keep I mean you went out there what are your thoughts I get the whole purpose of this I I mean but it's well let me say something I goad you and you and you can't follow the actual Railroad Bed completely because it AB buts on homeowners properties and they don't like that and the substation is there yeah right and the trail I mean the Trail Ends halfway through in the woods I mean there's there's more of a network in there but to the north of there there will be similar or more Wetland imp backs cuz there's there's more wetness to the north it's pretty wet today yeah yeah it's the rather in an OP um this I'm I'm just now all these different proposals uh you know people are coming and I assume you know they they drive to this area they got some bikes on their R rack on their whatever where are they going to park they Park downtown go ahead TR at that new place yeah so we just built a 48 space parking lot in Park Street next to the okay all right naturally this Trail is continuation of the trail is built there on the back of the pool yeah that's this so from the from the end of where it goes behind the pool people are going to ride their bikes or hike along that driveway that initial driveway of the cemetery is that going to get repaid because it's not in terrific shape right now just curious just curious okay so they're GNA the city through the DPW we don't have the money to do that right now yeah okay I have a clarifying question yeah so I understand there's a lot more buffers on being impacted here but there's still buffers on being impacted by your proposed MH and more Wetland impact so it'll be it'll be a similar but probably greater impact to the buffer zone the no build Zone this route that actually cuts that cuts in between the two weapons has fewer total square footage of impact than then the route along Crystal Lake and then counting around cuz this area wasn't you know this could be delineated in much greater depth and there's weapons everywhere and that you know there's more we impact there'll be more CTS there'll be more you know just more overall impact to to the we this this is the this was the smallest impact that we could find from one more quick there the the yellow Trail along the lake all that now is currently kind of old road yeah it's traila so yeah so so not people just doing on their own yeah I understand that dirt road yeah it's dirt yeah it's it's it's well established it's old I mean we were walking in it you could walk through it without getting branches yeah okay and again that you can't do anything with the the old Arrow bed from here up to here from well the best well you know if you could do it when when you come across by the pool which is all been repa that just continue that would take you right through the old railroad bed right through the parking lot of Napoleon C which is was illegally put in there there's no there's no provision that they just did it on their own and and into into the yeah you the just keep going well they I I think I think the primary concern here is that that um National Grid will just not allow access to this to the spot so right in here where they are they're not going to allow Crossing of that of that spot where their driveway is so that the the the rail the the path would have to go directly through there it's does out informally well couldn't we ask them if we put like you know sensors in with lights that people are riding their bikes and if there's a truck coming the centor clicks a light and they stop I mean they do that everywhere yeah I just did yeah yeah down down air yeah that's what I'm saying it's it's a main drag and still lights start flashing and you know it says a bike you know it's a picture of a bike flashing you know I you know I mean my understand is that this is how I feel about it it's nice to have a rail rail trail but we're not here for rail Trails we're to protect the wetlands of this city right I just you know we're not protecting them this way if you if you if you you know I know people go down here they're not supposed to be here but you know what but if if we do one of these Trails out in here you're going to get a lot of people down there especially when they Bridge 140 which is that's coming I mean you know they've already done the test borings out there and stuff like that right that's going to bring a lot of people on this rainbow rail trp because you can pocket the the Els or not the El next to the El and you can jump on your bike and go right from there right down through and and you know and that is going to I just I don't agree with keeping it anywhere near Crystal Lake I know you know there's a lot of areas that shouldn't have been there it's been here for 100 years and probably has been there for at least 100 years but when you start putting a lot of people on that you're going to have problems I think the best way do to continue their rail tra behind all the houses on on uh the one right here and and make some kind of a deal with with a National Grid and if they I I keep like I said I tried to get a hold of my contact I haven't heard back from but do we do we get a formal letter of them denying us anything yeah I don't know but but I'll tell right now what they get going to National Grid parcking or National Grid property they got air providing trees up there they because they made the hill so there was no so people wouldn't see it that's why it was done well it was never done right cuz you can still see it right so if you cut that off you could cut that bank down that would you could separate the parking lot that they don't want you to go through and you can go right into the rail trail go ahead TR so we didn't look at that alternative the right away from Crystal Lake Drive out to the substation U there are a number of problems with that there's a lot of cut and fill along that it actually is people's backyard now um they don't own it correct and um but they use it um and if you were to go in and cut that out along the way the rail used to be you're going to have some serious drainage issues back there that we're going to have to deal with cuz it's all it's all below the actual you know it's it's um what's the I want recessed the elevations it's recessed yeah so you're dealing with that the whole length pretty much and then when you come out the daylight you have the sub station that's a that's a big drainage call right now um they got retention on so oh yeah we know um and then you get the elevation from where the parking lot is down to the uh down to the railroad right away it's probably a good 8 ft so it's not that simple that's why we end up coming up with this I'll say another the park when you when you when you make the entrance to the to to go up in the Nashville grid area there's a house right there once you buy that house tear it down there's your entrance no I'm no really you know well they came before us at one point when they thought they were going to be able to sell do you remember that we can't go on Park Street it's not it's not a viable alternative um no no you wouldn't be on Park Street no dun saying you buy that house come around but you couldn't do it there's your parking area you still couldn't do it you couldn't come around I don't know what to say it because I mean it's the impacts everywhere so what point do we all say well this these are the four or five options none of them are none of them are any good none of them are great I know you're trying but you guys are asking us to kind of go okay you can go ahead and go through Wetlands or you can kind of go around them and not impact that much of them we're here to protect this not make Trails like Duncan said that's the hard part for us no I understand I understand it um I think it's a great all of them are have some value to them but we're here to protect that's true but and and of course the regulations do allow for modification if we choose if if you choose if the Conservation Commission Cho chooses to do so if if you choose to do so so so we're doing everything we can to bring the public good Y and then any impact that's that is occurring is being mitigated for Alternatives have been considered to reduce minimize a void as much as possible except for not doing it all I mean bringing bringing people into the area through use of the bike path is the purpose and that's the purpose of it I have a bike trail I agree is I'm just saying you know when when this is all done there's going to be a lot of traffic on that bike path because if you go down one 140 especially in the weekends where where it crosses there's at least 10 or 15 cars there all the time right and they're going from you know there all the way up to wind and and so so with that bridge in there that is going to really put a lot of traffic through there a lot and the really what you got Norman said it's that already what is I agree yeah they're meating that go ahead I mean so it's a tough one for me because I understand you can there is a variance and this qualifies as for public good the problem is it's the city drinking water supply something goes wrong oh who proved that thing anyway oh it's concom I don't care about water I mean think about it from our perspective it's really challenging to say oh yes it's not that big a deal it is a big deal well that's true that of course it's true but this specific Trail has this alternative has been located down gradient of the lake so any whatever spill someone just spill some oil I don't know whatever it will lands in the Crystal Lake all right you got not just people pedaling bikes anymore it's not that close to it's close enough a lot there's a lot of there's a lot of the water does pull the water away from the lake which is which is one of the reasons why we didn't choose the one that's closer to the lake which was in which would drain into the lake which would then put1 like put one yeah but all alternative doesn't require that because the water doesn't go to the lake yeah cuz all I can all I see right now is people going oh this is pretty go a little closer go a little closer go a little closer and they're right on the edge and we're going to have all these little Trails cutting down to the water you can see it on the bike trail on the opposite side by the behind the hospital the Little Foot trials Trails going down to the water now so this and people can see we can see that this one this is it's going to be hard to police that if we do every everything in our best interest of safety um usability you are a lot of wetlands and I think wetlands are an attractive thing to have on any kind of Trail or walkway because there's something different there and the wetlands that we have out here I know are pretty large but they are pretty nice to see yeah but they're going around but so not going to be able to see them some you know I think but um I think we have to do the best we can with some give and take to get this thing through because I think we're just doing what we're doing now is arguing there's not a lot of Alternatives that come up with other options so we have to somehow figure out the best alternative for what we have right there and know you know I don't know what else you could do because it is a small area and that limits what you can do in the first place but it isn't like sh yet I agree and I think with the construction if it goes along will improve the PO situation uh it's a mess the way it is right now and what they proposed to do is improve it eventually and uh you know it's so well used now the Walkers the bikers and the dog walkers there a lot of people going there every day and like Dave said it's a nice place and it's the same on the other side you going through Wetlands on off the 140 area that's always clean I've never seen any rubbish there it's always kept clean and I think the same thing would happen on this new part behind the uh cry C Lake Park Cemetery and so forth thank you okay thank you nor out of the four roots what do you guys like the best given the C I like two you got to get people off this Lake it's nice to see I I but you got to because you you know you know has there ever been a study on how much you it's going to get well it's going to be a lot but I you going have a thousand C the purpose of ites 50 bikes do you know why you laughing the purpose you really don't well I mean the numbers you're throw out there I mean you know they do traffic studies for every other damn thing why not do a traffic study there you know have somebody come down and count count all the all the bikes that that from go from one 40 to win on a Saturday or a Sunday they'll give you some idea when it's good weather because you know damn well they're not going to park there because it's dangerous you know the state police don't want you parking there the Town Police certainly don't want your paret there because the kids get out of the car they go out they can drift right into one party which is a heavily traveled road so you know that when when when that bridge is in they're going to go from they're going to find out that they can pocket the El which is great and they're going to go that way but there's going to be a lot of people there and you know I I just I I'd like to have some some kind of account of how many people do it I think it'll be a lot but what's a lot and what's not a lot I don't know a cut off I don't know all right hold on an existing 12in C like some here what's it for drainage from that for this yeah it's like clay masonry old old old I don't know disturbing me can we go to Watkins and ask for the land swap can we go to the National Grid and confirm in writing that they W let us pass just to check those boxes you already did and you got I just asked him you said you didn't have them writing for what for National Grid did they tell you in writing they will not allow us to cross I I I think I have an email with it from who the parking lot right yeah yeah from who V or Steve yeah well I think you need to go above I was going to talk to V goes above he goes above him he doesn't make decision no I know but we need to get something in writing not an email and then try Walkins too something in writing not an email they'll give it to you they have a legal U he already said no not well then let them say no in writing so we have the documentation maybe I ex member could do it who oh yeah maybe we might know somebody to help us okay if none of these Trails work what's our next option just nothing do anything I mean somebody's going to complain about whichever one we choose and I'm not really worried about what other people say think or do other than ourselves right I mean that's going to happen no matter what you're trying to do so we have to put some things aside and just say that's the way it is and they live it yeah but we can this is for the greater good of the public right yeah but is it the greater good of gardener public and what do they want here does it just the people that ride bikes and walk want this or is it the entire city and what what what percentage of it that's what we got to think about cuz again we're here to protect not to let big bike pass go through there's a fine line we're trying to figure out what that is no other options with this switch back at all there's no other way to work that just to the grades just that's my from who from Alex about the difficulty with going through the you know the the grades and coming back through the Bedrock and that and they don't want to go through grades that was an engineering evaluation not not a yeah another thing when you when you hand the property what at at the crystalite cemetery right there's no Gods it's just rocks big Stones put there then now they have replaced they have put some guard rails in but they need to put more in that's for the them they're going to come through there cuz you know somebody's going to end end up in Crystal Lake yeah if have you have like regular guide that they use on the on the highways that that will keep people out of there I'm the only one I get thought of that well you know all all along here you end end of right all the way over to here yeah where that where that stops right there there's a there's a board across it's like a gate right yeah most of it is just Stone Big Stone so you can't drive and go into the lake they have recently they have replaced some of it with regular gu rail which they need to Brak that gu rail all the way down through let's talk go go through R three again the yellow one what like what's the which one three yeah is that just an elevation issue too or what what's the main this Major Impact right uh so this this still keeps the the drainage going back into Crystal Lake so if there is an oil it's going to go into Crystal Lake drink water supply this puts it into 401 Water Quality certifications jurisdiction which if there's a chance for a still they're going to it's it's just enough so what's the difference between that one and the red one or the purple one me it's kind of what you just said right on the purple one number four it looks oh cuz it was Pink on this there's just more impact on that so so on on the purple one there is just simply more impact to the the buffer zones the no disturb no build to Crystal Lake okay those both will drain to the lake again 401 all of that y a and one and two red and green neither drain to the lake and so there is no potential for a spill to Crystal Lake in one or two two is proposed because it's not going up through obviously last week discussed now going through National gr area so that's that's the reason why green was selected there is no potential pollutant discharge to Crystal drink water it eliminates it completely okay so you said the purple is no good because of the impact right correct and you said the yellow is no good because of the impact correct and the green we can't do because Watkins right we don't think Watkins will give us a um an easement and red we can't do because of the switch back and cutting across National Grid so what you exactly asking us to do I mean you just said no to the three and the I'm sorry I'm getting lost me too so the yellow is so I'm sorry yellow is what's let me ask let me ask yellow's the one I thought I was going with you there we're going to be here for a no let me first now you I know you discussed this in your office right of all the roots what did you and your your boss if you don't if you don't mind it telling me what did you come up with that this is this is of all the roots what what Ro what did what did you like the best route three because it has has the least impactful area through going through the Wetland it's it's that is a really small area it's 50 square ft of direct W impact if there's a swap in the side of clearing trees which there aren't even trees there you don't have to clear in that in the channel Crossing it how far from the the I that wood gate that's there where it starts to where it cuts off how how how long of to where the purple acid comes into it right from to where it cuts off 600 600 ft so I mean 600 5 way to look at it but you have a auto road with no buffer at all adjacent to the drinking water supply it is much more threat oh yeah tremendously more threat than a buffered small paved bike path um it's just hard for me to to look at this road that gets traveled by cars every day that leaks heck of a lot more than any bike ever will I know that may may not be the best way to think of it but there's trees all throughout the buffer over here and you said it does it slope away or is it going to be kept away in this area yeah it'll be sloped away back into it's hard to say we lot cars that was before the fact but that's what I'm having trouble well I would have one of things hold on hold on I'll get you hold on um from from where it stops to where it cuts off it should be Fen so you can't you can't leave the trail go toward go toward the wall you can't do it so there there are proposed three um Three Wooden rail fences doing that in the notice of a tent yeah but that's been proposed is that going to keep people from just getting off the bike and going over the oh you don't want red you want you want black you want like black chain link things a full fo that'll keep people out is it the same kind of fence between the pool and the reservoir now the new one yeah kind of is just the same kind yeah yeah it's a split R fence so yeah so go ahead your name is Cynthia B just a suggestion I don't know if this can be done or not but uh rot one appears to be the one that has the least impact on Crystal Lake and I know that's but the switch back is the issue no it's crossing over the National Grid PL right understand and the elevations in the drainage I understand and again you're the engineer so I don't know but we have this same issue in winess in on the 140 section on Commercial Drive which goes into milac um across from the urban gas station and we built the tunnel we went I know that this and build a tunnel if we could put a tunnel underneath the entrance way to the substation so that there is they're concerned with the traffic uh they're concerned about their trucks you know and the and the people on the bikes you you could have I don't know again I don't know what the wetlands look like there or anything like that I'm just offering that as a possible suggestion yeah the elevations there are pretty bad and it would definitely flp I mean just because I remember all this when we built this you have to go way down low and the structure to hold those trucks up will be substantial because they're coming through with heavy bucket trucks they have Transformers coming in out of there well same thing on Commercial Drive too at my they have they have 18 wheelers going in not with a you know with a Transformer or a major piece we don't know just a suggestion I like that I don't know trying to think outside the box but the switchbacks C too on top of it I mean I would think if I can I if if National Grid isn't going to allow passage even with lights they probably not going to allow bre yeah it's still there property it's I can't speak for them I can't say that logic was I just want to say something before I forget yeah go ahead if we were to choose number three route three what other stumbling blocks are there from that point that we could run into in what way you mean like mean in construction or in every in usage of the of the path and where it in how it's located the topography anything that's going to interfere with this beyond what we're talking about that you can think of they I mean the only thing I can think of is is is since the the area the mitigation has been moved they're going to have to get access to that spot they're going to have to drive down there into the equipment so it's going to add some sort of more and it's temporary impact but it will impact something they have to get to it you know um but for the construction of the trail itself I the way it's designed I think it's it's pretty straightforward I mean it's it's pulling out everything that's in the path down to the sub Street tapping it in and refilling it and you know with the with the split whe fence there's no restrictions to Wildlife passage you know amphibians are still going to cross it it's I don't think it's a hindrance in right I was just wondering if there's anything that we didn't come up with yet yeah yeah M so it say there's 50 square feet of total impact on that one so there's 50 square ft of direct impact from the installation of the CER there's another 30 ft 15 ft on other side that we accounted for for clearing vegetation in the channel there's no vegetation but we accounted for it and then you know adding 30 ft on and then the multiplier for the mitigation 15 it's not another th000 ft it's it's there in that spot there's there's no there are trees in the Chanel on the banks but not in that spot you know it'll be some shrubs that I'll come out but no trees I'm not I'm just not ready to make decision you guys I mean you have enough information you feel comfortable enough no I I got a question for you now on number three why do we well I think I know but I'm going to ask you anyways why does it come down it looks like a check mark why not bend it around and just put it and dump it into the into the oh you talking about the top yeah right here why why this why dumping around there it's a slope it's a slope where the trail enters is generally flat right there and then to the side of it it it goes straight down so this is this is following the beaten path onto that trail to keep going if you were to just go straight it would it could be be a jurisdictional getch it's not but you'd have to go down and come back up and You' probably have to fill it I worried about a switch back and we got basically a right angle turn and you know what's going to happen people just going to go down that aren't they on their mountain bikes hopefully hopefully hope hopefully the split rails will keep but that's that's the reason for it it's following the existing path that's there yeah yeah it would just be more filled more you said there is fence there there will be no there will be yeah so the split real fence is going to go all the way up to the end once once this is extended down the rail path fi that fence will fall so a biker is going to hopefully stop the fence they can go over that okay I know you probably did it already but I'm going to ask for continuance but I think with the next meeting if you can give us some real detail on this the yellow okay with you know the replication areas all planned out um some visuals of what it's going to look like if with like sprit wheel fence coming down um and just really dive into the details of fens junken that's or other options yeah okay aot a 4ot black chain length fence they look good that keeps people out they really does okay that's following the the typical design that they use for rail Trails across the state that's that's a give us something like that or other option but they're from Boston now another thing let me ask you a question um the elevation as it and it cuts off the old existing uh uh your existing traia right yes what's the elevation above the water roughly 15 ft okay I mean that's Ian it goes start at 15 CL that sounds about right you know okay now as you're as you're climbing what's the elevation on that trail once you get to it it's flat and then it starts going next to the Wetland that's when it starts going down so it's flat all through here this this area is kind of where the the person's living like right and then it go and then it goes and then it goes down flat and it comes back up right before the the turn back onto the railroad track so we want elevations we want some details you want the replication how you do the replication the size of it how long You' maintain it a maintenance plan we want everything under the sun for that route three so we can understand it better and then we'll bring it up for a vote okay you have a question great yes my name is Dave an and I have a couple of comments that I'd like to make when you look at Crystal Lake you're you're talking about right now cuz Dave and I walk this a a pretty small section where the bikes are going to be look around the lake if you're worried about contamination you have a golf course that they use chemicals yeah that they have that's before we had to say but right but you're you're talking about contamination you have that look at what type of impact has the bicycle trail had on the other side of the lake is there much trash there do you see people emptying things there no you don't if you go on Route 140 that goes across uh Wetlands the bicycle trail and look how much trash has happened there you don't see it so the concern about people making a mess of this area if you look at what we have so far is very very very minimal for that that impact uh okay area um also Trevor can correct me if I'm wrong but the entire bicycle trail is part of the m city master plan so this has been uh since and I are on the North Central Mass Central pathway since the beginning and so the master PL over 30 years old that we've been working on for this to be a continuation and part of the reason that funding was provided for the trail was because it was transportation between winchington and Gardener and so now if you discontinue this you've kind of broken part of the reason that this Trail was initially being built do you live in the city par you live in the city yes I do how often do you use the other parts of the trail just carry um I probably in the spring out right on it three to four times a week great cuz that's one of the reasons I live on Stone Street that's one of the reasons I moved out there is cuz I just go down Stone Street and I go right out on onto the trail and nor rides it often I that's why I was asking how often you do yeah he can give you information about how much impact is there really and part of the reason again for the trail was to get people to ride it and come into Gardener and maybe spend some money y so we're we're looking at um you know the the impact I mean I understand the the wetlands and concern on it but um with replication and I think some of the uh mitigation with building the fence if that's what you need to do to control people if that's a concern but the new one that they already have Crystal Lake Park how much impact has that had do you see people going over the fence and jumping in the the lake I haven't I don't know I don't watch it okay thank you all right that's good information I have a question about the greater landscape so the the trail goes on the other side of Crystal Lake behind hospital so it goes north too so where does that lead is it going to be a big circle no no but they both go north back up to 140 that ends yeah that ends at the college really it ends at the college so that part at the college and this is the only one that's going to go to witon and over the bridge yeah the original plan was kelon Street and then on Street up um what's go up Stone Street and cut across by something like that joh got canned a long time ago okay there was some issues there um private ownership and and all that so that and and not only that c it's not a safe road to be Bing anyways okay okay and also the trail cuts across the college and you can go in the back by the middle school high school so you can go over the dun time that's the other okay all right so if you could get us the rest you know the detailed plan now that we're on to that route three the yellow give us you know good plan and when you do replication right we know we don't want this long replication we know it doesn't work I specifically want to know how who and how they going to maintain that until it's up and and we know it's survived Okay who in the city is going to go up there and and maintain it and maintain okay yeah that's checklist on maintaining it a number to call something's up going on up there some signage maybe you know some way finding as well we want to have it all ready to go for uh the April 8 meeting okay a discussion of the grade yeah there was one elevations gr yeah gr/ elevations defense options options maintenance options some way finding anything else that we're going to discuss that come comes to mind with your group or Trevor and um we'll continue to April 8th someone like to make that motion I'll make the motion all in favor thank you okay thank you guys so while he's doing that just be prepared with any other questions we're taking off all the other options except for that y TR nor can you still hear us nor can you hear everybody yeah thank you all right now we're getting into the old business which is um allpurpose Storage Garden represented by Chris guda Fieldstone land Consultants any update there so I just heard back um they had the uh report you know they're they're forming the field portion of that the 14 um I brought it up um with Stephanie my name in the field if she was able to get it in buy it today that'd be great uh she just emailed me like late Friday I just you know got into a um wasn't able to do it obviously hence not being here um looking at the 29th for date so sometime end of this week um and then so I expect to have that for V8 as well time Bond um third party um all right yeah I mean strugging along a little slower than we expected yeah I did I I know up got out to um the location and um I send you guys kind of like a picture where like even even if you know were being generous or conservative like at their favor for the location of the wet still much of it would be within the a lot of the new fil area that they pushed in um you know trash in there they got you know cat bulldozer just rolled right down the hill they oil changes on the the um nailing there just it's a pretty rough you know a lot of trash in the substrate material not pretty so it'll be interesting to see exactly what the uh third party review says um so yeah just from what Ive the field it does kind of okay prepare for that all right someone like to make a continuance to the meeting April 4th or is sorry the 8th I'll make that motion someone a second second all in favor thank you next 170 M Street have we heard anything back at all so based on some of the concerns expressed at the last meeting I we showed to the office of dam safety um you know expressing some of the additional concerns based on the increased rainfall of the season and they were able to get a uh danam specialist engineer on site later that week after the prior Monday meeting I think it was like Wednesday or Thursday I think I'm up there um and they noted no substantial change from prior to conditions you know from April May 23 um I sent them pictures pictures of what I saw too and you know compared it to the pictures they already had and you know the water was you know spitting out more aggressively but you know I guess as per their you know Engineers judgment the dam itself structurally speaking was um unchanged so what are they going to do now I mean they missed all the dates yeah I mean just as far as actual procedure um it's still been kind of you know they both resorting to their respective legal councils and um you know do nothing we can do I guess currently at this point cover yes we just going to keep it on the on the agenda no I asked you know if they could forward any developments to us I would do likewise all right someone like to make a motion to continue on 70 M Street I'll make that motion to the eth someone like to second that motion second all in favor thank you one more thing that kind of came in under the wire uh which had already submitted the agenda um Matt the president of gardener Youth Baseball Softball League came into the office on Thursday they are looking to put in a new digital scoreboard at the uh 90 Mechanic Street or 100 Mechanic Street um shows up a little differently what we look at U ballpark um there is a stream like a perimeter stream that kind of follows the uh the back of the diamond yeah um and he was helpful enough to provide a hand drawn sketch and it is actually you know about 30 foot out from the tree lines so it would be um you know out of the no build um and you know I'm currently helping him with VD application and he had requested a hardship kind of exemption for the uh 50 filing fee and the advert fee for the RDA yeah I think we can so I guess I want to tell you know I think we should wait the fee and for those of you been on the commission a while they've been trying to get they've got new boards new board members I'm not opposed to the sign it's got to go kind of where it is anyway it's they're very limited where get there for power so if they um if they can come to terms and get everything signed up and ready to go if you can help them fill out the paperwork out let's let's um when they have it and it's ready to present to us we can vote on a wave in the Fe it's our town little leag get I mean we got we've always supported them um and I don't think it's previously Disturbed we wa they were all set to go and I know what yeah they work the contractor a lot of the work has being going for aona um you was a good thing for them um yeah since I told him like you know the more you also kind of mention like a flag pull and I told him the more he wants to do the more i' have to recommend the N kind of keep it to what is crucial you know that being the scoreboard um they need a flag but maybe we can combine it in one but again we're still outside of that third yeah so and it's previously Disturbed we lost our old park they don't have a flag I mean they do the pledge of leag almost I think at every game still when I was on the board they still did it sure so I uh told to expect to come the April um 8th meeting just to um you know speak about it but I just wanted to kind of preempt that with just clearing the fee exemption with and we still have 22 or 23 $2,800 in that Brooks account that was used for that field um what I was going to suggest everybody is we use some of that money to help them buy um all the mitigation the sil fence everything they need to get in there and get it done right I think that's there it's bur a hole in our pocket let's get it yeah well I just think it's been time they've had a lot of change over there so all right so they'll come before us and by you can help them out thank you anybody else have any other new business you want yep let's U go to the meeting minutes no go ahead oh moved I'm not behind you anymore okay never were anyways Steve Rockwood 310 Pearl Street um I attended the zoom School building committee meeting last week okay and the OPM said that they had been in and talked to the Conservation Commission now I couldn't verify or not because I wasn't at the last meeting but I know they haven't been around for a while I guess the first question is have they been to a meeting the last meeting bacon construction yes I've had some conversations with Joe McDonald um but I mean he hasn't like come to the meeting obviously I guess I just don't we went on site out there though I I just don't want them to present something in their meeting that's not correct by this we no we have met them on site so yeah it was and ended with they're going to do it when the growing season started yeah I understand that I just don't want to plan pretty close pretty pretty soon we need to plan for for maybe the next meeting yeah because then at the end of The Raid season they got to start planting and we need time and I actually I brought her to S visit great and they were just kind of wanted to get ahead of the game and um make sure they were going to do everything um as should be um mention bio mulch right off the bat originally we were going to do a straw um they did have some concerns about using machines in the area in the lower Wetland replication area where you drive it up do from the Park yeah they were going to plug it by hand at one point we went out there so yeah um I mean obviously I wasn't there at the beginning I can only speak to heard um but yeah you know we had conversation with that and I guess expect to hear from them again far along soon okay when they want to start doing that okay that's the area down at the bottom of the hill right toward south right ACR from Park all right thank you yeah yeah really all right let's go to the meeting minutes February 26th someone like to make a motion to approve the meeting minut of the 26 I'll make that motion second all in favor all right I have to obain because I wasn't on the commission yep Norman you still there yes thank you so moveed as approved uh the March 11th someone like to make a motion to approve March 11th meeting minutes I'll make that motion someone a second second all in favor all right thank you some move those approved anybody have any fur the new business uh can you bring up the thing about the H or is that not on the commit the it's not on which one the hos gamma gamma's hotot yeah um that's new business so I've been just trying to work with Sean about dealing with the uh so there's an open permit on the house yeah they did 2 or 3 years ago or I guess over 3 years ago now I guess cuz it's so three and some month years ago um what's still open for ours yes for some single family they did they did up the house yeah I knew that so they haven't why Haven they closed it I don't know um so that's still open and you know then there was the issue of the manure yeah you know within probably about 70 ft of a stream that goes to the um essentially down to the Crystal Lake um and you know I also saw that on the property they were scheduled to do the cell tower which you know was a pretty substantial amount of construction inw um right also like on top of what a neur St poud um so I reached out to Sean and was you expressed that he was you know getting very Cooperative about it um I said all right I'll work with you on the manure let's let's kind of create a new stock piling area away is you know it's like a 50 they have acreage there they have plenty room so you've been good about that um I work with you on the the expire to order and the manure and you know it's just see an noi for the tower that's it's a pretty substantial amount of construction you know it even at enough submitted plans like it did Edge over into the 100 foot um and it's you know stream is downgrade it's right there um and uh so he's leasing the land to a sell our company so it's not him doing the job um and you know my understanding Sean relayed this information to whatever degree to the um like Acquisitions manager or whatever to the sales company and he did not seem to want to be cooperative to the that um it would it would have been helpful um just been kind of back and forth with Sean Hayden to uh see to what extent we can um work work with him on that work with the uh cell company because it's it doesn't it's not fair to us or the you know residents for us to want to like you know work with them on solving these two violations and you know the sell company on that property kind of turns around and like you know across the face little but the way I saw it yeah they definitely not confess um so just copy me a commission on response you have in email or strapped up a letter that you need us to sign yeah make it's on the next meting too yeah I mean they haven't anything like I said so but it's just you know I just kind of want to do um Sean have been great about right like you know I walk to site with him and his property manager um cool they're both cool about it but um you know would like to solve the situation to the satisfaction of everyone involved but I gu obviously if it's a uninterested third party then then we' get everything else resolved first and we to kind of Le work work with the property and I don't know if they even could because they still technically have an open perm right you could open a new job on a property with an open yeah we want to to change the subject but on that project off 140 the storage area yep we we can't really talk about it we already closed it anded it I oh okay should it's no it's not it's not no it's the it's the plan they gave us right yeah there's no elevations on it yeah know we're trying to get that I think that's what let's not get into it now yeah anybody have any other new business no TR and uh someone like to make a motion to end tonight's hearing I'll make that motion someone like a second second all in favor two hands thank you thank you have a good night almost I will see you thank you is that a threat or a promise both okay I love it [Music] see there