##VIDEO ID:q100ZjBKd4s## The Gardener finance committee will come to order the cler will please call the RO councelor D lawitz present councelor ma present president president is anyone here recording this morning's meeting okay we'll begin with review and approval of the meeting minutes of April 10th 2024 May 1st 2024 May 15th 2024 May 29th 2024 and June 12th 2024 I make a motion that we wave the re the reading of the minutes and approve as presented second motion made by councelor Max second and by councelor General ow to wave the reading of a minutes and accept them as presented is there a discussion on the motion all those in favor say I I as opposed to say no motion passes item 11395 a communication from the mayor regarding the certification evaluations changes and qualified comparable sales la3 thank you very much Madam president and I have our City Assessor Christine Kumar with me as well um because she's the one who deal deal with this each and every day and uh put the report together that was certified by the state so if there's any other technical questions she'd be the one to answer those but uh every year we have a process in which the Commonwealth certifies sales from 2 years prior to determine what the uh valuations of different properties in the city should be based off of those comparable sales those sales have to be arms length sales uh and have a um again that 2-year look back that way we're not you know fluctuating as the market is fluctuating in real time uh based off of those sales the valuation changes that are included in your packet are where um the properties have uh been certified as you'll see in the la4 uh vote that's there uh but that's the uh certified report and the qualifying sales that the Commonwealth used to set those valuation changes and the increases in valuation that we're seeing right now and this is a trend that's really being seen across the Commonwealth right now not just us here in Gardner but happy to answer any questions on that process uh this All Leads up to eventually us having the hearing in front of the city council for the tax rate classification as to whether whether we do the single rate or the split rate uh so i' uh rather than give you everything all at once in one big massive packet I'll give it to you again when we get to there but now you can see the building blocks that have to be done along the way thank you thank you for being here this morning thank you any questions comments from the committee I have none make a recommendation to the council we place this on file second motion made by councel General out to by councel Ma to place the communication on file is there a discussion on the motion all those in favor say I I those opposed to say no motion passes item 11396 a communication from the mayor regarding the certification of city valuations la4 thank you madam president so this is the uh certification of the valuation of all of the plots of land that are within the city based on the classification of uh land coding I've given you the uh code index too so you know what 101 102 and so on from there is uh in your packet uh the average single family home and Gardener right now has a value of 34 $ 4,779 uh that's up from last year's average single home uh single family home value of $ 326,885 Dollar and to put this into perspective 10 years ago in 2014 the average single family home was $161,900 here our population has grown uh every year that I've been in office uh let alone every year since 2014 and in fact I just looked with uh the superintendent of schools yesterday uh we're up 130 students in Gardener Public Schools this year leading us to uh just about 2600 students across the district uh around that time we were averaging probably around 2100 students uh at least the last four years that we've been here we've increased about 100 students a year uh that's nothing to do with housing values directly but it shows that we've got a population that wants to come in here that's growing uh that's a younger population and it's uh making it so that the values are increasing as uh supply and demand changes happen that's uh really the trends that we're seeing here and again uh director Kumer can uh talk a little more about the science behind it all that's not the overall big picture yeah no it really is Market based um full and fair cash value um is is what is used in the state of Massachusetts for value valuations um we have also seen an increase in the number of uh residential Parcels uh so that also um affects that I'm amazed every day when I look at deeds and see how much people are paying it's I yeah I don't know when it's going to end but now that um I believe um interest rates have dropped so as long as there is some stock um they'll keep selling so um the parcels 10 years ago in that same period were 3,913 residential Parcels today we are at 4,32 residential Parcels any questions comments on the committee make a motion we recommend placing the communication on file to the full Council second motion made by councelor Dar second by councelor Mac to place the communication on file is there a discussion on the motion all those in favor say I I close say no motion passes uh item 11397 a communication from the mayor regarding the certification of New Growth La 13 Mr Mayor thank you madam president uh New Growth every year is also certified as part of this process uh New Growth is uh either new construction that's been completed additions that have been issued their final inspection and certificate uh the project needs to be done in order for us to capture that growth that's there so if there's a project that's currently in construction until it has its final uh inspection and certificate of occupancy that's not captured in this new growth number uh New Growth this year was cert certified at $282,300 th000 in the budget for the fy2 fiscal year so we are uh $ 32,35 over budget uh which is good to see uh it is probably worth noting that this is the lowest amount of New Growth that we've seen since 2015 there are several factors that play into that um General market trends that we're seeing right now interest rates up until a couple weeks ago were higher I mean they still are high but they at least lower than they were a couple weeks ago now um a lot of people are still waiting to see what happens with that if that Trend continues or if that stays at what it is right now uh the inflationary cost of construction materials timelines leading up to uh to performing work I'll use the example of 25 Main Street because that's going to be coming before the council quite shortly uh is that the building was purchased 2 years ago uh they uh upstairs was is intended for apartment buildings the downstairs is where Bria coffee is currently under construction right now uh there were some uh factors working with different vendors that led to the fact that they needed uh you know a delay in getting their building permit because they didn't have the estimated cost and that's one of the required items in the building permit then on top of that uh National Grid said in order to perform the necessary upgrades to meet current code compliances for apartments in the upper floors they needed a new electrical service in order to do an a new electrical service the building's so old it needs a new Transformer well there's an 18 to 24 month lead time when you order a Transformer to when it arrives for installation uh so that's why that has been on hold so far I'm anticipating that National Grid will send me the uh easement document to send for the council's consideration coming up shortly because the only place that's able to put that Transformers on city land but that's something that it was a mix of National Grid market trends banks for inflationary issues interest rates and everything it's the perfect storm that's come together and I think that's what a lot of people are seeing right now when it comes to growth in Gardener and we also need to remember remember that the amount of New Growth we've had at least the last 3 years was unprecedented for us that we we we've never gone1 $150,000 over what we budgeted for New Growth but when interest rates dropped down to points on the dollar everyone in their brother was going out and doing some type of work on the houseing scene it was the best aashan hardware has told us that that was the best year they've seen in record uh same thing with Mackey Home Depot said the same thing is because people were going out and doing these Improvement projects that they're just not doing right now because of the market trends um so we are not in a bad spot because we are still over budget it's just something to keep in mind and look to see does this continue and what other market trends are affecting this as we move forward um but it is uh again that's just New Growth so that's budget that's uh money that's just coming in as regular Revenue that's now Revenue coming in over budget this isn't free cash uh free cash was submitted to the Department of Revenue we hopefully have that certified soon um for the uh next meeting for the city council fingers crossed if not the 1st November meeting uh and then the regular tax uh recap uh the tax recap sheet will be done uh and then we have a classification hearing and then the Department of Revenue will set the tax rate after that so that's the process that we have left thank you questions comments from the committee I have none nothing was that okay that was perfect thank you very much oh entertain motion placing the communication second motion made by counselor darl seconded by councelor Ma to place a communication on file is there a discussion on the motion all those in favor say I I say no motion passes thank you item 11398 a communication from the mayor regarding City employee health insurance rates is anyone joining you guys okay come on up D and Rich have joined us thank you very much Madam president so uh each and every year the city goes out uh with our health insurance broker Cooking Company to review our city insurance rates based on the claims that we have from the previous year uh we met with uh uh the committee that meets with the insurance brokers is myself treasur Dem auditor Richard and HR Director uh Morse uh we met with them at the end of August and they notified us that due to the extreme number of high claims totaling almost $4 million in high claims alone this year that weren't expected Blue Cross was recommending that the city go up 24% in our health insurance rates uh we were able to work with uh our health insurance trust fund working internal numbers ourselves working with the Brokers working with Blue Cross Blue Shield who manages our self-insured plan and uh we were able to settle at 20% uh there's a lot of factors that go into this there were several years in which the city did not go up in health insurance some years with Blue Cross recommendation saying that our trust fund was healthy enough that we didn't have to do that some years uh against Blue cross's recommendation where uh and the timeline for all of that is included in your packet so you can see what years were uh with and what years were not some years were under to try to give employees a little bit of an ease into it after going uh 6 years without an increase um easing back into those increases and it just got to the point where uh we just caught up to those costs following the the pandemic people going back to get the uh procedures that have been put off uh mental health issues uh this was the first time in several years that mental health has been listed on the high claims list uh also uh more than usual on the high claims list this year was issues of alcoholism and substance abuse um so we are going to be working throughout the year to see if there are different Wellness opportunities or things that we can do to work with our employees and their families because that's the other thing to realize with this too is this isn't just employees but those who are on family plans it's their families certain retirees who haven't hit a certain age to hit Medics insurance yet um so that's something that all factors into it and in fact I've given you the full packet that so every piece of information we got from Blue Cross is in this packet right now the high claims that are there the market trends the analysis that's there and the reason why uh this isn't a you know let's go 10% instead of a 20 or let's go 5% and try to see what we can build up to later is this all impacts our health insurance trust fund so since the city is self-insuring and rerun our own we have our own insurance pot that Blue Cross Blue Shield manages for us we um uh have to come up with that money somehow so say we were able to only go up uh 10% I think was the example that was used in the Blue Cross analysis and The Cooking Company analysis that's in your packet that would put our health insurance trust fund in the Rend by about $2.2 million uh which would mean that now the city's general fund taxpayer money would be subsidizing the City's health insurance by that $2.2 million because that's not something that we can let go in the red uh so it's one of those things that the uh the action just had to be taken the Band-Aid just had to be ripped and now we're figuring out how we move forward from here so that we make sure we don't have these unanticipated extreme increases uh that we're seeing right now and it's one of those things that we tried to manage it we did go up uh a bit last year and we went up a bit the year before but like I said for several years there was just uh no increase and I think it's finally caught up to us um so going forward at least well I'm mayor we are probably going to be increasing at least a little bit each year to at least try to keep up with what we're doing at least with cost of living adjustments but it's one of those things that we have to work with the Brokers and see what we're doing and see the Brokers that we're using and really take this as a more holistic approach and one of the main things that we're doing right now is uh traditionally in the past the city looked at health insurance in August for a September open enrollment period and then the health insurance year would begin on October 1st the main reason for that is there are a substantial amount of employees that we annually hire in August for the school department um and it was one of those now you're going through all this paperwork and trying to figure out like who's on the insurance who's not on the insurance you have to enroll them and all this other stuff but what it does for us on our ends is it throws off our budgeting practices in terms of how do we get it so that we can adequately plan for the budget that we need when we're actually voting on the budget and rather than going back and looking at do we need to fill up uh health insurance with free cash do we need to use a supplemental budget or anything like that uh so one of the things that we've decided Now is working with our health insurance brokers we're going to be going on the fiscal year mimic so this uh Insurance year that we're doing right now is a short Insurance year uh so it started yesterday on October 1st and it will go through June 30th and we'll do an open enrollment in May uh with a look at the insurance rates again in April that way we're uh getting onto a more budgetary sound timeline uh based on the recommendation again of all of us who sat on that group with the insurance brokers uh and then have a better budgeting plan and yes is that we are we still going to hire people in August for the school department absolutely but at least we know what rates are in place what things are going to be moving forward and we can have a lot smoother and less crunched of a timeline for all of that thank you questions comments from the committee so when that open Period comes up again what's the process look like for asking for maybe not going Blue Cross Blue Shield um how does that play out is there other option other other options out there but how are those entertained and how does that work for the public at home yeah every time we go for renewing our insurance we actually have the option of doing that and it's something we actually did for this round too we looked at using the uh Group Insurance Commission uh the GIC which is a bunch of different state and local a uh agencies that go into that one that would have resulted in a 27% increase so that's why we didn't go with the GIC uh but every time that we look at renewing we can figure out do we stay self-insured or do we go on to a a full insurance plan with another company or do we get another company to oversee our plan be it Harvard Pilgrim Fallon or anything like that when we do those April well what will be the April reviews or what would forly were the August reviews we can look at that at any time so it's a year contract that we have with our insurance companies uh for that renewal that we have there obviously this is a significant increase um you the worst time increases over the past several years as well um unfortunately that's the the cost of insurance these days I think it's gone up for I know it's gone up for myself um private insurance through uh work um it's unfortunate but um something that had to be done make a recommendation to place sorry any more questions comments from the committee I I do uh before the next enrollment and that the case of full disclosure I am covered by the city Insurance um so I do have a personal vested interest in this um for the next enrollment period will the city be seeking out um other brokerage firms besides cook uh will you be looking at to get to to find out because I thought the the information from cook to the city was very short notice it did feel that way I think all options are on the table at this point but it's one of be those we will evaluate over the course of the year and see how this enrollment goes um the other thing that I'd like to point out too and one of the reasons why we also went with that short year is we do have a separate plan that we are now newly offering to our employees uh it's called the select plan right now our current health insurance plan covers New England uh the select plan covers Massachusetts but not the other New England states I you're going to get some coverage but not without a bunch of premiums and co- pays going up and everything like that if so employees do have the option to switch from the current health insurance full plan to this select plan and if they do that the increase is actually only 15% and not 20% uh and if the employees find out that it's not fitting what their needs are they only have a couple months before they can decide you know what I'm going to change and go back to the full plan rather than the select plan so if you know a employee goes from now through April and finds out that that plan works for them and all of their medical bills are covered and that's all they need then they can continue on with that come the next fiscal year but if an employee finds out you know what I really need these extra services that are there then come April they can decide to switch back to the um current New England plan rather than just the Massachusetts plan so it actually gives employees somewhat of a benefit for trying that plan out uh because it makes it so that they don't have to wait a full calendar year like they normally would have to do before they can make that switch uh the other thing that we did is we looked at doing a coup's plan rather than a family plan because we do have 94 individuals who are on the uh current city family plan that are just uh employee and a spouse uh where we the family plan covers employee or spouse or employee and family so kids spouse and everything like that um we've got about 110 families and 94 spouses who are currently uh on the family plan and what that would do is yes it would help those 94 couples that we have but on the backs of the other family so that would increase things by about another 10% if we went and cut them out for those who are on family plans right now so that's why that just wasn't a feasible option for us if I remember correctly under the previous administration there was a lot of talk that there was going to be an incentive for um city employees to go on their spouse's employment plans with a you know a little incentive towards them to save the city money um but that never transpired uh it was actually in the union contracts uh I don't know if it it was at least in all the city hall cont contracts I don't know if they made it into the school department contracts uh but we offered employees up until last year was actually the year it expired $1,000 uh upfront payment to uh get off of the City's health insurance and get on their spouse's health insurance and uh of all of the Cityside employees who wanted to take advantage of that it was just one employee who took the payout and went on their spouse's plan um so that's one of the things that we tried it uh at least the previous administration tried it um the previous administration was also one of those that didn't raise health insurance as often as um as you can see there right that's I was going to say that the health insurance did not raise as it was um recommended yeah and but that's going to be again hindsights 2020 no matter who was in the chair no matter what was involved no matter what claims were there and this isn't a blame game it's just how do we move forward from here and it's just a perfect storm of everything else that happened in between no one predicted the pandemic no one predicted inflation no one predicted anything like that so it's one of those we've got a plan to move forward and we're going to move forward with it you uh thank you for the information Mr Mayor um I think it's really helpful for the council to have this this is a really big deal for um for our employees who it affects which is all of them pretty much and so um I think it would be fair to say too just you know seeing like the GIC would have been a 27% rise or we just went up 20% so I think moving forward as you said looking at other plans and entertaining other thing options in the future would be different it wouldn't be maybe much of as a jump just because we just did a humongous jump so maybe there will be options in the future just being optimistic uh but I you know these everything isn't perfect and great all the time you know you do the best you can I think I think the best effort has been put forward with this but like you said this had to be done and it's the time that it needed to happen and moving forward there is a plan to do the best we can to be sure that this type of increase doesn't happen in the future but again you can't predict everything you just plan as best you can and I think we do that pretty um um conservatively in the city as best that we can and try to keep people in the best place that we can to take care of our employees uh and so I really appreciate all the information for the council because it was certainly a huge shock for a lot of people and I I know that you know I had constituents asked me about it and you were very transparent in your office was saying like hey this is the information and this is what's out there and so I think this is really helpful to have it um distributed to the council as a communication even though we don't have necessarily any action per se on it is there anything that you either of you would like to add I mean the only thing I'd like to add is at one point we did have two we were working with two uh carriers um har Harvard Pilgrim and blost bu Shield it was costing us more to have uh the BL Harvard program on the as a choice so that's why we kind of and this was a couple years ago I I believe that we dropped them and just stayed with Blue Cross Blue Shield but we do look at every year and our broker should be looking at okay if we use Blue crossby Shield this is a r uh Harvard Pilgrim uh in at least two or three more um so we we we're on that with our broker and this year I was I wasn't impressed with our broker this year so um again we'll keep that in mind going forward thank you one final comment sure I think it's I think it's important to recognize too that the information came in late um because there are several Union contractors contracts that were negotiated and closed prior to this so this wasn't anything that was the information came in late so I know there were a lot of unions that were upset cuz they had just finished negotiations so this information wasn't known prior that is correct so I think that's important that you know that's emphasized yeah Dental's only going up 3% that any further questions comments is there a motion make a motion to recommend plac in communication second motion made by councelor D all second by councel m to place the communication on file is there a discussion on the motion all those in favor say I iOS say no motion passes thank you thank [Music] you item number 11399 a measure authorizing the mayor to enter into a grant agreement Le with the governor community action committee for a use of a portion of the space at the Waterford Community Center located at 62 Waterford Street Julie mean director of the CAC is here joining us um Mr Mayor M thank you very much Madame President this is I'm very excited to finally get this before the city council I mean Julie look on Julie's face yeah um this is the first lece being issued for the uh Waterford Street Community Center um soon to be renamed once everything's done in place but again that's uh where we're at right now uh the CAC currently has what's called a grant lease agreement with us over at the current building at uh 294 Pleasant Street uh what that means is in lie of rent uh the city provides a inine grant if you will of the space to the CAC in recognition of the services that they provide to the community and to its residents who are here that's why if you look at the vote page that's included in your packet it doesn't look like your regular vote page that just says voted and then the action there's actually listing the services out that the CAC does so that it can show that this is in recognition of those services that they provide um obviously everyone knows the large benefit that the CAC provides in terms of their food pantry backpack program dinners on us Medical Transportation emergency assistance uh the clothing closet help connection everything in between between the increase in 63% for food and security uh uh assistance that the CAC has seen over the last 12 months uh year to date they've already seen uh 2785 individuals in this calendar year alone or fiscal year fiscal year so since July 1st uh of this year um so there's no doubt that they provide those services to the community in the best way possible and we're really lucky to have them here uh so similar to what we're doing over on the Pleasant Street location for the new community center this would be a grant agreement lease in which uh really it's a a I think it's a dollar a year that's listed because we have to have some type of monetary transaction for the general laws but the uh rest of the rate difference between market value and um the dollar that they're paying is in recognition as a grant for the uh work that they provide to the community that exempts it from the provisions of 30b uh that allows us to move forward with this I'm going to say this right now we are a long time away before the public is going to be in that building because of Renovations that need to take place uh but the reason for doing the lease before the renovations take place in terms of the individual spaces in those uh is because doing a uh long-term lease with a um tenant actually uh if it's a lease of I think 10 or 15 years or more uh it exempts the tenant from having to pay prevailing wage on those Renovations that they do to the building because that's more of a vested interest in their space rather than an improvement to a public building that's going to quickly revert back to a public building um so this is the first of those the RFP is going to be released for the other spaces shortly uh director Cormier is here who's overseeing that process with us uh but this is step one thank you uh director Cormier any comments on the process I no again the mayor summarized it pretty well uh the one thing that should be added is that they're providing a service to the community that doesn't cost the community that's receiving the benefit if there was an exorbitant cost if if there was a higher cost to the public than it wouldn't be except but because because of the situation it is and you know the mayor mayor summarized what they do but I'm sure Julie can tell you a million other things that are done that aren't on that list that benefit the community as most of us in this room know so yeah if there was a user fee or they sold the food out of the pantry would we would not be able to do this but because it's a free service to the community that's what allows us to be able to do the grant agreement thank you Julie did you have anything you'd like to add um I just want to say thank you obviously the C is very excited about the opportunity to increase our footprint in the community um and as the mayor said we've seen a 63% increase in the services so to be in a large space um increase our capacity and just ease the accessibility for the families that we serve we're very excited so and we're very thankful for the support of the city and the city council thank you uh and so and I think that was a good point to make just about this um Grant agreement lease but other leases is um as excited to be in the building and do all this like it does take a minute because there is some work that needs to be done so you're able to do that now before you move in there uh and you know I think all of this now is really important because then we have a building that has people in it and we're not looking at a vacant building 20 years from now 10 years from now that we have to you know try to tear down or spend City my funds on otherwise so um I'm glad that you're you want to be in the space too that's awesome one question I have is about the current building and the Keen building on Pleasant Street I've had several questions from the public about what would happen once the senior center and the CAC vacate the space it's that's currently being evaluated by us whether it looks like we put whe whether we put it out for sale or whether we maintain it and repurpose the building um the one thing that's for certain is that we are going to be putting something before the city council to rename the new Senior Center wing of the community center the mcken wing and moving that plaque that's there too that way may Keen still uh maintains that um memorium in his uh that honor in his memory uh that's there so that would move with the senior center if the council chooses to vote to accept the proposal that I'm going to be submitting in probably the springtime um but we're still looking at the options for that building there's several different uses it could be put towards for the there's an elevator there it's ada8 compliant but is that the best use that we're you know is are we going to be looking at putting lipstick on a pig in terms of yeah it's great we could move someone in there but is that the best use for that building or is there a higher best use that's there too so that's being evaluated right now well so the thought was you know we're inhabiting a building right a school building a building that's been here a long time that has a lot of history and everything and that's that's great use of the space but then we're vacating another building is what's going to happen to that building that's kind of been the thought and I know there's there's no issues with the building it's fine it's it's just a better more accessible space at Waterford kind of makes sense have everybody go together so um I just wanted to be sure the public was aware that it's this is part of the process is evaluating the use of the building a pleasant as well the main reason that evaluation hasn't been done yet is unlike the CAC for example who's going to go in there improve their space do the renovations they need and then open to the public and they can be in that space at that time first off we they can't move out of Pleasant Street until they're done with that work but also we can't move the senior center until the interior Renovations on the senior center side are fully done on our own end so it's not like a private tenant that can go in and do some work and stay in two different spots and then just you know slowly transition that way with the senior center it's going to be a switch of we're over here we're over here so we have to wait for all that to be done so until that timeline is more solidified on when that work on the senior center Wing is done that's why we have to kind of wait on that one there so that's why that evaluation is still ongoing is we just don't know when we're going to be out of that building for the senior center Services well it makes sense you can't offer it CU you don't have a date that someone can be in it or do work like you said or anything like that so that certainly makes sense but knowing that there is an evaluation process and it is is going to be actively looked to be um occupied yes that's just the information I wanted to be sure was um ready for the public questions comments me no I just I I I agree with you coun cus because you know I just don't want to see it closed and start to fall into disrepair because it is still valuable accessible building um and we do have some departments that are overflowing for space and we have some other you know very valuable programs within the city that um you know I think that's still a it's a great asset that building and I think I think all um options need to to be looked into thank you further questions comments I agree with that building obviously um not the ideal space for a senior center and the difficulty of getting any of the food that could shift in up those stairs the elevator is not ideal um I know it takes a lot of people to do that and it's still you know a lot of volunteers are still needed for that but one floor being able to maybe cut them in it's going to be nice one floor with a door to parking lot exactly upstairs it's going be much better but it's it's good to hear that the current building you know there's going to be evaluation there's ample parking there as well which isn't um always the case um with some of our um some of our buildings um so I'm happy to hear that thank you uh entertain motion uh make a motion we recommend authorizing the mayor to enter the lease second motion made by councel General second by councel m to recommend authorization by the mayor to enter into the grant leas agreement is our discussion on the motion all those in favor say I I oppos say no motion passes thank you thank you item 11 1289 an ordinance to amend the code of the city of Gardner part one thereof entitled administrative legislation uh we've spoken we've had this in front of us um for um quite a while and it is a very large document that we've kind of gone through there's a number of changes um and we've made some requests I think it's still ongoing it seems um I don't know if there's any questions comments from the committee the redline version will be done by the next finance committee meeting it just that took a little bit to pull together with everything else is going on yeah I mean and that's I think the type of thing where we expected that to be because there is so much in there but seeing as councelor ma had suggested as well and I know councelor General has looked at this extensively as well like just seeing it side by side with what was struck what's going to be new I think um that's going to help us and especially when we have to report to the council to take a look at it cuz really it's been with us all of this time where the work's been being done um I think that's going to be the most helpful piece of it for them to make the most you know educated vote decision or to to make additions or you know their own dations or whatever we decide to do um so I think with that just with that too just know that it's not going to be a clean I I I I shouldn't say clean is the wrong word for it it may be a little confusing to follow because there are some sections that are brand new there's some sections that have moved from 682 to 2 uh so we've moved certain things up we've changed some stuff within that just to make it so it's uniform across all sections that are there too uh so we'll do the best we can but maybe even doing a um my goal and this is why it's taking a little bit longer is to do the redline version but also a summary sheet that says this section was previously here that way if it's harder to follow with those red lines you can kind of find it on your own on that way too almost like a road map okay thank you you know I I just as long as it's as transparent as possible I think that's the most thing we've we've just have this best practice now in my opinion um my totally bias opinion that we try to be as transparent as possible with things like this I mean it's a big change and it's important for people to know um even though I think this is cleaning it up a lot it's actually going make a lot more sense we just want to be sure this is what we had and this is what we did um for for the public and for anyone who is involved in these various Council committees commissions whatever we're going to be following it so they can clearly see you know this is why it was done this is how it was before this is how it is now um to kind of connect all the dots and to help the the council make the best decision on our end as well any further questions comments just as a heads up too because I did say this in my inaugural address so this was the step one in you know cleaning up some of the ordinance book that's there the traffic commission's meeting on Thursday for some of the traffic ordinances that are there so you'll have a traffic related ordinance proposal coming soon um that one might start with a different committee that whatever the traffic commission sends it to will send it to whatever committees that falls into because it may fall into a portion of Finance with parking meters it may fall into a portion with service or safety or other ones like so we're still evaluating where to best you know work on that um and then there's some other uh General ordinances that we'll be submitting shortly a probably along with those traffic ordinances so you'll see some more coming through just to close up that one there um so it's going to be a work in progress and just a fluid motion type process at least through the end of the calendar year thank you I think for these kinds of things that's like that's the point that's what you should do on these kinds of things they didn't take two seconds to write the ordinances you know it should it should take um some time and take all those appropriate channels to be sure that they're done before they're they're voted on um you know one way or another so or changed um so I certainly appreciate the heads up knowing that it's down the road because it's work that we all obviously have to do um but I you know I to me this is it's just it's a long time coming and I think it's important so um any further comments questions I just appreciate the work your office is putting in because for the council make much I think easier and and and more transparent for the public when they they if they try to look at this packet and what has been changed as you stated counc Citi just the these ordinances came in over time and now we're at all together um so um if there's a lot there I do have in the most in the newest version a few more um I was going through it again a few more questions um nothing major um that um I I spoke to the mayor about he actually answer some of already um but the um the red line version what's been changed is going to be kind of the the last piece so we can just take a look at what's changed and the rest of the council come look as well people at home um and you know see what uh what the new version is going to finally look like so thank you yeah I will say I mean it is something that over the past at least that I've been paying attention since 07 um normally the mayor would put up an ordinance to change this section or the subsection or this or that or here and there um but the other sections weren't looked at and there's a section of the city code right now that says that if you uh swear on the front steps of City Hall you are the treasurer at nickel and it's one of those things that you since now has clearly been defined as that violates the free speech amendment uh the First Amendment of the Constitution um but it's still in the ordinance books because no one bothered to look at that section versus just changing what they needed to change at that moment in time because of something that was happening at that time so it's one of those it's just a holistic look to get us back to where we need to be and reset us at Ground Zer at the base level so that we can go up from there and that that's the purpose of it so I really appreciate how much time you put into it and how you know attention that you put into it and the collaboration we're going to have have moving forward on it because that's what it should be it's just getting us to where we need to be thank you further questions comments okay I I think we should ask for more time as it's going to remain we don't have a recommendation there's still work to be done so um we'll keep this on our agenda and ask for more time okay um I'll entertain motion to adjourn so moved second motion made by councelor Max seconded by councelor General alls to adjourn all those in favor say I iOS say no motion passes meeting standed thank you everyone h