##VIDEO ID:3QVBorjKZ8E## hearing of the gardener planning board we'll open with the announcement of open meeting recordings any person may make a video audio recording of an open session of a meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium subject to reasonable requirements of the chair as to the number placement and operation of equipment used so as not to interfere with the conduct of the meeting any person intending to make such recording shall notify the chair forth with all documents referenced are used during the meeting must be submitted in duplicate to the director of Community Development and planning persuant to the open meeting and public records law all document shall become part of the official record of the meeting is there anyone in here tonight recording or taping who needs to identify themselves to the chair hearing none I will now read the public hearing notice into the minutes public hearing notice Compass Lane definitive subdivision in accordance with the city of Garder rules and regulations governing the subdivision of land notice is hereby given that the gardener planning board will conduct a public hearing on Tuesday November 12th at 6:30 p.m. in the Harvard conference room City Hall Mana Annex Pleasant Street Gardener Mass to consider the definitive subdivision plan and application submitted by private oversight LLC 25 lomard Road hubberston Mass The Compass Lane Divini definitive subdivision plan depicts a 900 linear foot culdesac with 16 parcels and 162 family dwelling units the developable area of the site consists of 6.6 Acres with 10.1 Acres being left undeveloped the property is located at the Templeton Gardener Town Line on the south side of West Broadway plans are also available for viewing in the Department of Community velopment and planning in room 2011 of the city hall Annex all persons interested in this matter or who desire to offer testimony are invited to participate all right before we get to presentation time any preliminaries for us Mr Bard got right now Mr chair very well uh Mr Fletcher is on board yes Trev FL engineering turn that on you got it all right if I can do it full screen yes so uh this is uh the subdivision that you're all probably familiar with at this time uh we went through the preliminary uh hearing I think back in the summer at some point and uh since that point we've done uh you know we prepared the definitive uh plans 18 sheets with all the uh the storm water details the landscape details lighting details and uh and all that stuff um it is still currently being reviewed we're getting comments in uh but yeah we have a 16 lot definitive uh subdivision uh each of the Lots is planed to have a duplex on it and uh so that is the lot layout right there this is uh the remaining area in the back that will be left largely open space uh to the Northeast there is the PAC land uh it all kind of just slopes back that way um and then even further back to the uh the South East is route two so there's not much back there but it'll be left uh undeveloped in that area so this is uh the beginning of the roadway here um so if you uh remember the site plan uh design that we had for the multif family it's a similar thing the infiltration Basin is uh right at the beginning of the site U everything pitches down to it and uh all the utilities run um through the roadway uh out to West Broadway the exception of the water line which circumvents the uh the can you see my cursor no doesn't show yep oh okay yeah so the water uh main is going to come uh to to the roadway at this point and then go cross country around the infiltration Basin and uh go into there and that was to avoid um entering into the Templeton uh Township um with the with the water line because we're hooking up to Gardener water in that area and so that's where it ends over in that corner so that's why we uh had to run it like that uh in the front up here on the right we have the common mailbox and then uh coming up you start seeing the the duplexes which are on individual Lots then then still it's the same kind of thing coming all the way up there duplexes on both sides and we end with a c stack and then the uh the drainage from the mirror of the site all drains down towards the infiltration in the back so that's yet again very similar design as we had during the site plan review um the uh traffic report uh we had it uh revised by fuss and O'Neal uh to account for this type of development versus the multifam um before I believe we were up at 52 units and with the duplex development we're down to 32 units uh 16 duplexes and so that's what they did their traffic counts and they did their site distances and all that we had that area staked out if you've driven by there uh anytime in the last 3 or 4 months um and so that's where the it's going to come out but um yeah it's uh pretty much the same uh kind of concept as as I presented in the preliminary not much has change just kind of uh fine-tuned all the drainage and everything like that so and yeah like I said at this time we're still waiting for comments to come in I I think uh Rob is currently going over the storm water comments um we already got some comments pertaining to um zoning and uh the subdivision rules and rs looks like the only major change I'm seeing so far is uh when I did the roadway measurement I measured it from the edge of the roadway on West Broadway and you have to account for the uh distance from the edge of the roadway to the center line of West Broadway so the road's just going to have to be shortened by about 14 ft which is probably going to cause a couple of the houses to be shifted but I don't expect any major changes with that so that is uh where we're at right now I believe Mr Arnold wanted to confer with the engineer about uh was the uh extending the sewer I believe it was a sewer permit extension requests oh yeah all right you're already aware then y okay which is standard y Trevor can you talk more about the infrastructure in the site uh sidewalks uh crosswalks uh sure anything else you can identify yeah so the uh the sidewalks uh there's it starts right here and it wraps around the entire site and we're just have a sidewalk on one side of the roadway all the way down uh so there's really uh no need for for crosswalks if I don't even think you can have crosswalks if you don't have sidewalk on both sides so it just keeps coming down and all the way to the uh the common driveway and ends at the RightWay but there is no uh sidewalk to tie into uh on West Broadway so that's kind of where it's going to end unless they put one in landscape plan Landscaping plan yeah it's like very similar to what we had before that is the profile profile water plan so yeah this is the landscape plan um [Music] so throughout the uh the entire vment there's several trees all these circular um uh little symbols right here indicate a different tree that is proposed and uh so we have you know upwards of you know 45 45 to 50 trees throughout the entire development um and it's just kind of standard to uh what the subdivision rules of RS call for um next sheet here come on come on and that is erosion control set control and here is the uh lighting plan so scale it's not great yeah anywhere you see a red dot is going to be um the street lights so there's going to be uh plenty of light throughout the entire development we have uh three three lights around the CAC here and the next page should be the photo metric plans right here that's you can't see much but they uh there's like Contours so essentially the entire roadway is going to be uh lit up is what this uh this entails it'll all be downcast lighting um down towards the road so that should shed minimal light uh off the site and uh what's the height of the lights Dr the height of the lights uh let's see here mounted on 15t pole is there a grass strip between the sidewalking roadway yes yes so go to the actually on your street plan yeah just remember that here so this is the cross-section of the roadway here so you have the 5T sidewalk here a 3ft grass uh grass plot vertical Granite curving uh 24t wide pavement uh those rigs were updated relatively recently uh they changed the regulation from 28 ft uh minimum pavement width to 24 that's what that reflects and then vertical curving on the other side and that just shows the shoulder on the opposite side and then the grading so will any of the trees be planted in the um the grass uh I believe they're all on the uh the outside of the uh in the front front yards or I think they are if I'm recalling correctly I believe they are all um on the outside of this sidewalk so let's see if I can zoom in on one here yeah so you can see right here they're right on the outside the uh the RightWay and that's it compared to the walkway so they are all on the outside of the walkway as well and can you maybe speak a little bit about the phasing plan also sure please um so so these are the different phases so it's going to be U let's see I think we have three different phases here so phase one uh starts off by constructing tement uh sorry uh temporary sediment basins and uh so once those are constructed then uh pretty much all the other work can be uh started uh the temp temporary sediment basins are Ro control method so when you're disturbing the site you can just direct all the water to it and uh so it filters out the water during the construction phase so once uh that's done then the roadway uh construction can begin and uh I believe we have all that under one phase and there's a couple of different sediment U temporary sediment basins on site so all those have to be constructed and the roadway can be constructed and stabilized and then once that's done the um and everything stabilized the basins themselves can be constructed and that's when all the uh conveyances for the roadway can be uh constructed uh to them uh constructed to to go to the infiltration basins once everything's stabilized Iz that way it doesn't uh interfere with infiltration capability of the basins and then once all that's done then the individual housing construction can start under phase three so phase three will be all the all the structures correct yeah yeah it probably won't be all at once probably one at a time yep and then on site you know when they do the house construction they do smaller little temporary sediment bases as they see fit so all that disturbance goes there and then once stabilization happens then they can direct all the the flow to the to the street or to uh their final destinations any questions from the board members I have none just time nor the uh in the traffic report the recommendation one of the recommendation and I was concerned about also is the entrance or or leaving the uh the property is the uh the vegetation M how far are you going to back up the veget from 2A from the from the road going out so people can see when they if they are leaving I see you have one tree almost one of the photographs you have one tree almost at the end end of it end of the road yeah so recommendation the travel I mean the uh the traffic was uh try to make it vegetation free meaning no big shrubs no big trees so the view on both both ways could be seen yeah so I'm not too sure how much uh you were willing to cut back there was no specific uh feet or for SE even left or right of the driveway also so you know I I think it's kind of as an on an asne basis I mean even after construction it's going to come back and then they're going to have to do periodic U removal of that but if it's in the right away I think that's going to have to be taken up uh through the the DOT permit they'll take a look at you know the site distance and everything like that they'll make recommendations on what can be done in there right away so um certain linear feet uh I believe anything on the Basin we're we're kind of grading up right to the uh the U RightWay line with the the grading off of that and uh so so we're going to have to take most of those trees along the front on that side uh the area to the left uh we only own I think about much 25 I couldn't tell many feet there was there luckily the uh the RightWay actually kind of comes out like into the um into so you'll have a little bit of room to to clear any the brush see go halfway in a row just to look left and right to see get out safely too you know want to make sure he can get out safely yeah yeah yeah the the area in here all the grain is going to be going up pretty much right to the road so all the vegetation on our parcel should be cut down right in that area so if there's any trees I don't believe oh there was one of them it looked like you new trees you were planting was white one of the was pretty close to yeah but obviously that wouldn't be able to put there yeah the the biggest problem with the site distan is as typically brush right there yeah so that's uh tree there yeah that's going to be on the back side of the even the sign so if people want to see the sign coming in but again where would the sign be sign I guess that going to be blocking people's view or how far back is that going to be no I mean the stop sign is going to be roughly right in this area so everything that you're you're seeing kind of pass oh you talking the stop sign I thought you meant maybe a a a sign that says welcome to Compass Lane I don't know yeah yeah so that that's going to be located right here so there's quite a long distance between this and this it's about 15 ft from the edge of the property to the actual pavement so if you're if you have a stop sign right at the the front of your car you're probably going to be 6 ft back with I just like maybe that big sign not too sure what kind of sign they're going to put up yeah so there shouldn't be uh you know an issue with site distance due to brush as long as they keep it keep it trimmed back and uh uh you know mow it and I think they they do a pretty good job because the sewer line actually runs right in this area here so they don't allow saplings to grow they don't allow anything to grow in that because it would make it a you know a hassle for the sewer line that's all I had Mr chairman thank you Mr cor chair Mr Question we are they going to have to apply through do for the high into route 2A yes yeah they'll need they'll need an access permit and do will be very thorough on things like site distances and um anything that's drainage anything that's happening in the state highway lout excuse me they'll really go through with a fine tooth go and typically what we do with that is uh once we get through the first round of comments and the plans are coming to their final State once those plans are done then that's when we uh start the process with the dot rather than having you know the the first set of plans before the review comes through and so it's a little bit more of a finalized state so we're not you know revising the plan Left Right sending this plan over here so it's a little bit more organized and uh you know lines aren't getting too crossed did I understand Dan Rob you're still studying the uh storm water plan yes I haven't had the opportunity to look through um everything uh my my comments that I submitted were basically just on my review of the subdivision with the subdivision rules and rags and Zoning um I haven't had an opportunity to complete storm water in a detailed look at it thank you all set folks anything further from staff very well this is the uh of the hearing will open up in public testimony is there anyone here who wishes to be heard in favor of this definitive site [Music] plan is there anyone here who wishes to be heard in favor of this definitive site plan is there anyone here who wishes to be heard in favor of this definitive site plan hearing none is there anyone here who wishes to be heard in opposition to this definitive site plan you get up instead of sitting with my back to okay we had all right your uh name and address please for the L East temp the butter and I have questions um it's now it's now planned to be a city approved Road in and it's what's the width going to be on that requir the payment width or the right way the pavement width is going to be 24 ft but the uh the width of what the city would uh take over is 50 I have a question about the um traffic report do you have anything newer than the 2022 or that's the only one that was done yeah they just redid one in 2024 and that should be available at the the Garder office fuss and O'Neal did the uh did the traffic report just like he did the one was there any significant changes in the newer one I not see I saw the plans last week but I did not see the traffic report yeah uh I don't believe they uh there was any major major differences U between the two the two reports he looked through like police records and everything like that um and I don't think you found anything uh too substantial in that review um but yeah that's all available uh we can get you a PDF if you want to look through it um in the meantime before that next um I question I I haven't seen the newest one so my question on the amount of traffic that's going by uh I think has significantly increased since the 202 22 maybe that was cuz it was post pandemic and um when I I took a count just myself and um the fuss O'Neal one said that um you know they had about 265 vehicles in an hour and uh the the highest one I had in an hour was 56 I had a low of 388 and then the others were 429 488 so it's quite a bit more than the 2022 report yeah they Rec they recounted for uh 2024 but I don't I don't have the numbers committed to memory I'm sorry to say so I guess I'd have a concern about increased amount of traffic and the safety concerns that we many the neighbors have had about coming in and out of that area and the sight lines and the volume of traffic a little bit more than I think than what was originally planned for so I I can come into City Hall and see those numbers anytime okay yeah I got the a little portion of the report here just a comparison for numbers uh they said uh in the busiest hour it's 42.3 between four and 5 is uh what they what they were having on that um they had that those those strips that set up and that's how they did the count the automatic traffic recording data so yeah that's all in here so if you want to PDF of that um is there is there any plan um about the tree cutting phase one that you can let me know anything more about yeah so the uh the extents of the the whole project will be uh will be cut during the uh phase one uh so loggers only have to get in there once typically they'll leave the stumps in place so the you know the sediment doesn't get Disturbed in that and as the faces progress anything that's going to be constructed that's when they dig up the stumps and uh to to minimize the uh Eros erosion potential on site at any given time so the the stumps that are dug up where were they going to be moved to in the meantime before they moved off site uh typically they have stockpile areas uh on site that they set up I have a couple on the uh couple General ideas but the contractor usually takes that into into Liberty and there there's rules in the the EPA regulations the Swip report the Swip that they have to have they have the storm of stock piles protect them with the road control and everything like that but you know ideally they taken off site uh or ground up on site um immediately so the tree cutting is going to go just past the end of that CAC area correct so uh what about the sidelines like well my property your butts and other people's properties but how close are you going to get to the property lines so right in here so right here you can see the edge of the edge of the tree line so we're leaving as much of a buffer as we can to you know allow for you know the uh the common mailbox and the uh then for the grading associated with the rest of the project here so we're we're trying to give you your your buffer that would be the the zoning setback all Tre is uh what we're going to be staking out for for clearing and then it's going to taper back and uh this substantial buffer back here and then uh right here this is the parcel that already has been cleared as part of that development uh in the back so uh we kind of have to clear right up to the edge of that along the stone wall and uh this is also bordering that land back there oops and on that diagram where you have the culdesac before you move off of that at the end of the culdesac it looks like there's maybe did I see something written up about a dirt or Gravel Road and what's the purpose of that yeah so that is going to be for um let me just get get it up so I can speak while I right here so uh it's required to have a a little access road to uh get into the Basin to to maintain that so that's just that little 20ft strip that that goes right back there for access to that area and can you tell me something about the elevation what's going to change of what's there now and what it's going to be as far as like how many feet difference in elevation and what about runoff and that kind of thing yeah so typically um we have the the roadway kind of intersecting the uh the hill going on that side so what you want to do is on the high side which is your side on this side we typically cut that down or in this case uh we have uh a plans for the the foundation that we'll actually have a flat backyard right here and then the uh it'll be like a drive under in the front over here uh so it'll kind of it'll be the similar drainage pattern it'll just be a little bit more flat down flat down uh as you go along the whole the whole slope and uh so it's a little bit more of a environmentally sensitive design in that aspect versus putting large retaining walls on the back and you know all that so it's kind of of trying to blend in with the hill as much as possible uh if you're talking in front let's see back to the front of the site towards you uh so the Contours are kind of run this way right here and kind of come around and they end up looping back around like that and so essentially the the proposed Contours are kind of coming like this and then like that so it's it's very similar in design for topography going to fit in with it pretty well there's not going to be large Mounds or anything like that other than where you see the the basins where we had to retain water and uh then it'll be kind of steeper on the downhill size of the the basins but as far as the development itself it it Blends in with a topography pretty well and I my property's that about five of the Lots I I shouldn't expect problems with water coming in my direction no everything flows downhill from to that Basin correct yeah in the front yeah and then uh so everything flows towards the the Deer Hill subdivision but the uh essentially what the roadway does is it intersects all that flow and it routes it to the basement in the front and the basement in the back so actually Deer Hill subdivision should be seeing a lot less water as well so at the back how is that water going to get to the back cuz it generally slopes uphill the the elevation is more uphill how are you going to get that water into a basin up there out in the rear of the site in the so all this water is going to go back over here so all this water comes down uh down the slope like this and then it hits the roadway and we have a catch basins and drainage uh structures so everything will be caught in the roadway by these drainage structures and then they come over here and there's another drain manhole here another drain manhole here and it's routed into this Basin and it's is discharged uh down towards the the wetlands around the pacc but it's you know so it's everything's routed around that whole thing and then discharge out in the open space and then to a to a culber at the U West Broadway is there going to be any planting in the back of the lots of either side of the development in the like the ones that are been near the butters are you're not going to do anything back there they'll be uh there'll be the the buffer that we we showed earlier that uh zoning setback buffer that we're going to leave um but then it's a matter of you know what the home owners want to do in their backyard so that's uh really not our perview they might plant trees they they might want just lawn um yeah question about the setbacks like the ones on the um the Eastern side um lost my TR thought the the buffers the the you said a buffer zone so you have setbacks where you can put buildings so is on the Eastern side or the western side the Eastern side is all Gardener and the western side is some Templeton and some Gardener so all the houses are actually going to be located in uh Garner there's not going to be no building permits pulled in templon um I'll show you the uh so in this area right here the Town Line actually runs right here this dash line MH and so all the structures are going to be located in uh in Gardener not Templeton coming across snow storage and snow plowing that's the plowing is going to be done by the city if the town accepts the radway yes until such time it's uh on the owner right to maintain that road so what's the plan and for the owner to do are they going to plow where are they going to store the snow if it's a lot and what's the city plan if it was approved as a city approved Street do they just plow or do they have a dumping plan for that I mean yeah you know if it's a moderate amount of snow I'm sure they'll just plow to the side like they do any other Street uh if we get you know a dumping or something like that then you know someone would have to probably get in there with a with a front loader and probably bring it down that access road to the towards back and and dump the snow back out there somewhere but it'll be handled like any other any other Street Gardener typically when works when work is being done is there a time limit of like hours of the day or days of the week that they're limited to yeah typically it's uh I believe seven or 8 to to 5 on weekdays and then I think uh on Saturdays 8 to 8 to noon or something like that I can't remember that sounds right I don't have is that typically in the conditions of approval if approval is granted it will be I think it's typically 8: to 5 Monday through Friday and I'm not sure about weekends I mean you have to get special commission through the Building Commissioner that's all I have for now thank you thank you is there anyone else here who would like to be heard in opposition to this defend site is there anyone here sir your name um I had a question today I called the uh Templeton PD to talk to the chief he's on uh vacation but the guys standing in for him Templeton PD had no idea this was going in and the entrance is in Templeton when the road when they come out of the road it is Templeton so Templeton had no idea they were putting a a driveway or roadway right there at that corner um I I told him he said he would like to to talk he's going to talk to the chief as soon as he gets back they're going to go up there he's going to bring the fire chief with him and I would also ask him too to get the guarder chief and their fire department to go up there and check that exit to piggy back on to her if there is a lot of snow it's already a blind area where they're pulling out if you have a lot of snow they're never going to be able to see coming out of that entrance or exit it's a blind entrance if you're coming from Gardener and turning in there you're turning blind it's a hill there you don't know what's coming over the hill or around the corner so that's why Templeton was upset they were never told this was coming in it or where the entrance or exit was they seem to have a big problem with it um also was an environmental impact study done on this I don't believe so because the area has already been compromised by the other Builder who clearcut the top of the hill so we've already been having water issues so when you cut the rest of the trees down that are going down the hill and put a few trees back in there you're going to overload whatever water comes down there is going straight down what happens when those storm water drains overflow where does the water go how much how much volume can that water those storm water storage are take if we have the volume that's been coming down the hill now and then you take all those trees out there's going to be even more water coming down nobody accounts for that these people that do these Studies have no idea what's been going on up there they have no idea what's beyond this little picture that above the hill has already been compromised by all those trees that they cut down where we're already having problems with water so to me these companies that do these surveys and these things have no idea what's going on up there so a lot of that has to be taken into consideration when they're talking about you got storm water storage for this and that they have no idea how much volume of water comes down it's all ledge up there so everything comes down that hill and it's a long and it all points down to this area everything flows into that area right now and it's a long straight shot that nothing stopping it so to me they they need to get some people up there and really do a back you know a real good background on what's going on up there before they start any of this because I don't think they can control the water that's going to come down that hill with these storage these uh storm water drains and storage even when they start cutting all those trees down come this spring that that's going to be flooded cuz you ain't going to have the trees back in there once you cut all those trees out it's going to be a while before you put more trees back in there so what's stopping the water in that meantime I don't think these little things they're putting off to the side to catch some of this water is going to even come close to catching all the water that's going to come down that Hill thank you sir is there anyone else who'd like to be heard in opposition to this definitive s ma'am I just had a question about um fire hydrants um if are there going to be any on that new road or are they just relying on what's already down on West Broadway they're actually going to be two proposed one about halfway up the roadway and then one at the the end of the the cack so there'll be two two new fire hyres up there and they'll have pressure to to serve the the purposes of fired needs in that area with those type of hydrants yeah I believe when we were going through the site plan approval there was no uh issues with DPW mentioning uh any pressure issues down at that end um they have to review it as part of this whole process again so if they uh see any issues they will flag them up thank you any other questions or comments opposers neutral party okay are you good did you did you have a comment sir yeah please oh okay your name and address for the record uh Kirk maete I'm the chairman of the templ planning board M go ahead just a couple of questions I don't really want to get into the engineering aspect of it because L shares and G other the fact that I will mention if you don't mind you the shman sir and your name is what Mark sha um thanks for letting me speak certainly um Trevor Travis TR sorry it's a 50/50 shot um you would mention that you rely on the water coming from the what call the the West the high side as it shating off and going into the catch bases from I'm just asking a question I'm not criticizing but is that a good engineering practice being that we have winter here and you're shedding all the water across the uh city right away onto a city street basically from private property onto the city street because I know look in temp we we frown on that draining water from private property onto the street where here you're actually encouraging it from from the design standpoint so I don't know I'm just sticking a bug in the planning board's ear not my problem not my town okay um it just doesn't seem like it should be done that way I wouldn't allow in um second question through you Mr chairman is the app here mhm okay who might the applicant be oh okay right there all right hello hey um why has this not been brought to Templeton yet or do you not plan on bringing it to Templeton otherwise you have no way in or out all I I believe we're we're going to go to Templeton um I I believe the reason we were waiting is to get the more finalized plans as uh essentially it's just the uh the lot area in templon that would have to be approved in the back and then um I think the lot area in the I'm sorry the lot area in the back right here so these are all part of part of the Lots so I think it's a formality that the temple and planning board has to sign off on the portion of the definitive portion of the then I don't think it would be an anr it might be it would be it's kind of like a weird gray area so we were going to go through that um and then the uh the roadway is a a state run uh roadway so um I I don't know if if that's it's still templeman property Quon Mr Robertson said I think that the sight lines really need to be taken in consideration if L moved West so before you put this thing into a milear you might want to consider um letting telin get involved with this because I just don't see it happening where it is and I'll give you a a Hands-On I actually happened to myself last winter coming around the corner it was one of those snow squalls what have you I Come Around the Corner heading towards God in my pick up truck normal Speed come around the corner there was a big oak tree a big a real big tree down if anybody here remembers it last year down and I literally drove right through that tree I could not stop coming around the corner and lo and behold right to my right was the orange Stak so this roads proposed and so I'm just looking at a school bus um a minivan with three young kids in it and um we'll call it a gravel truck coming around the corner or a concrete truck coming around the corner they're going to run right over them the sight lines don't work um I for one through templeton's capacity will solicit the state to have that corner either lowered or a sight line moved down further because that's unacceptable as far as I stand is my capacity of chairman the planning board I will take that to the board that this and I'm not against the project I'm a developer myself I'm against the placement of the driveway coming in the roadway coming again so just we we place it as far west as we as we can on on the property and uh but once again safety to me is comes before money every time okay and if you're going to put if anybody in this room wants to put a price on somebody's life I like to know what that number is right now TR can you show up view of the entrance please just a edge of the properties right here Sor okay uh so essentially The Gardener sub rules of RS requires this 25 ft uh radius kind of like this on this side you just kind of ran straight to the corner to know just give them more land and more room to run just makes the lines a little easier but yeah if you did on a 25t radius it would come to this point right at this point so the only way to get through the G of the r r this propos road without any waivers or anything like that is to uh is to put it there if if uh the board is is willing to to you know seek a waiver and to you know shorten this area up over here to move the the roadway over there to allow for um additional sight distance we'd certainly you know seek it out but can it be sliding I'm sorry can it be sliding East can it not go down east east yes right that's right R get away from the corner correct yeah sorry through you Mr chairman sorry uh yeah the uh the infiltration basin's right there so we really need all that size because after the down portion of the site so all the stone water flows into the into the infiltration B on that side so to to meet the uh the small M EGS and the City of gardener we had to size it like that and uh we really need all that space so uh and then if you move it that way you're actually going downhill more which makes the site distance even worse at this point right now uh when I I walked there's a this utility pole right here there's a uh a diamond a silver diamond on it and so I walked as far as I could down this way and I believe I got right to to Baker Street and you can actually see that silver diamond on that still so the the sight distance doesn't doesn't look good but know F and deal went through it uh they came up the sight distance that was adequate to the speed they measured not even closest speed um and uh so that's kind of where we're at and uh so yeah I mean 3ot great Stak in the ground right here you might not be able to see but you know a car you know you know is a little bit higher than that Al so you might be able to you should be able to see that a little bit better at the at the stop sign so I believe the uh the site distance isn't isn't as bad as it seems as if you can see that silver diamond all the way up to to B L that's just uh my observation uh when I was out there and you can you can actually go on Google Maps and you can actually keep going back and back and back and you can still see that silver diamond all the way back to to Baker Lane but yeah fuss and O'Neal was the traffic engineer on that so I I can't really speak to the sance I have an observation about that have your uh we need your name and address butter so the problem really becomes if you're headed west on 2 way you're further up to the E house you can't see you're cutting off even more of looking down to toward Baker Lane so that's really more significant so heading up West this way coming from this way yeah and you're trying to take a leftand turn into your road you can't see your sight line down towards Baker Lane is cut down even more cuz you're on the other side of the road and now when you're taking the turn if you got grave cement truck coming around the corner it's going to be you've only got you know what couple hundred 300 ft maybe okay so I think that's more significant going west standing on the southern side looking at people coming this way yeah if you stand up and your tip toes you can see down Baker Lane but you're on the other side of the road looking you can't okay yeah we'll uh we'll talk with the the traffic engineer we'll we'll have him try to address that that point and uh and H in on that and uh and the other question I have is General are these buildings or this development intended to be all rental so people you know coming and going all the time are they going going to be owner occupied somebody's going to buy that as a condo or something and share the building so uh right now it's a it's planned to be owned by uh by the developers right now but it's still going to be a definitive subdivision so if they wanted to sell one or two or three the duplexes they could it all be under homeowners association but the individual Lots can be sold so it's not it's not a project that's just always bought and sold by the you know by the same people so it can be parsed out just because of the nature of it being a subdivision defend solution plan okay anything further from the public I I don't haven't seen that fuss and O'Neal report for the newest one but the um theyve recommended distances for stopping sight distance and intersection site distance and out of like six of the statistics five of them are very close to the low side of the recommended so I don't know if there's you know something you can do to look at that you know like eastbound it says recommend at least 385 and there's uh it says it exists at 400 and um for the intersection site distances westbound recommended 510 and it exists at 525 eastbound recommended 440 exist at 444 and I don't know if that those numbers have changed cuz you've shifted the road around you know in some of the plans over the past three years or more yeah I think the entrance hasn't changed so those numbers should still be uh accurate um but yeah I mean they're they're recommending certain site distances and they're just showing how how much is provided in that so it's it exceeds their recommendation that's but I think they're they're on the low side and considering there's traffic issues and accidents and things over the past month in front of our property going towards the development there was a vehicle went off the road on off the over the curb and went maybe 20 24 ft across the front of my property dug up all the saw and then was in like there was like maybe another 25 ft before you get to your um the pins and they must have gotten back on the road but that was just in the past month okay so it's concerning anything further very well here we will continue this public uh hearing December 10th yeah that's right December 10th sorry I left that out we'll continue this public hearing until our December 10th session now let's transition into our regular meeting first item of business approval am minutes from August 13th since we we did not meet in September and October make a motion to accept the presented second motion made and seconded any discussion by voice all those in favor very good motion carries all right private oversight LLC proposed Compass Lane subdivision definitive site plan under new business uh after what I heard tonight and what I've seen and some of the concerns from the public I I'm leaning towards uh uh third party site plan review with a particular emphasis on storm water and the traffic study I guys concur I agree I think it's for the best all right I'd entertain a motion to that fact I'll make a motion to go to third party if you would for a third party traffic study in storm water report second okay motion made and seconded we'll go by uh go by the r starting with me all those in favor I I I motion carries unanimously old business nothing on there next meeting Tuesday December 10th we we'll take up the uh the uh public hearing for uh Compass Lane subdivision one more time and that's about it yeah anything further from staff Mr chairman just so everybody understand so there um the department heads have 45 days to respond to provide comments to the planning board once they've received the plan um that 45 days is not up yet so um we should have all comments back for the next meeting so if there are any additional we can introduce them at the public hearing um and then discussion hopefully I've shared a scope of service with everybody on the um um the traffic analysis and the storm water review from a third party and um hopefully we'll have all that information prior to the next meeting also so the so the app has time to review it um prior to and in in the city engineer um and you should be depending on how long it takes after review we might need to continue one meeting just you know I know how busy they are over there um they have heavy heavy workload so uh having everything for them to be done in a month and then you know us revise the plans for you guys to look at uh might be a stretch but if they can get it to turn around to us and we can turn around we'll do that but we might be seeking that continu uh just just as the January meeting if it comes to that that's fine anything further um I I guess I just add uh one just item is there any way we can uh send the city Engineers comments along with the plans of time bond that way if there's any uh duplicative uh comments based off of like engineering practice there's no conflicting comments one person telling me to do one thing one person telling me to do another thing and me not knowing who how to rectify it I already recommended that if if there's a peer review done so I'll work with d Bon to make sure cuz I know there were comments on storm water that I was guiding you and so they have the backstory on how we got to where we are okay I I wanted them to be aware of that and I'll I'll talk to them okay sounds good I just wanted to make sure I wasn't getting two different directives to to different changes like perfectly understandable that's what that's what I want to avoid okay all right I think that's that's it well thank you guys ni thank you you're welcome thank you all right gentlemen I think we're done unless you have anything further for the board entertain a motion make a motion motion madeen seconded to adjourn any discussion hearing none all those in favor all right all right those opposed we are adjourned thank you very much