that's he e e no you just both e good evening folks and welcome to the um to the Wednesday March 27th uh meeting of the zoning and planning board for Garwood um at this time I would ask if anyone has um a cell phone and if they would silence it or turn it off it would be greatly appreciated um and I will start with pursuant to the open public meetings law this is the state for the record that adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the public by publication in the Union County Hawk on December 21st 2023 and by posting on the burrow website and filing of said notice in the office of the municipal clerk the zoom Access Link is posted and it also is available on the Barrow website um so with that um I have a I would like to have a moment of silence and then a flag salute thank you to the flag of the United States of America Adell roll call please here here here here here here here okay um the minutes were recently provided and uh as anyone or if any everyone has had an opportunity to review them and if there were any questions or any corrections uh let me know I'll make a motion do I hear a second second the minutes all those in favor I opposed hearing no motion carries and um we have two resolutions here uh the first one is Winslow place if you want maybe uh we have two applications we're going to have probably a uh break in between at some point that might give the uh members of the board who didn't have enough of an opportunity I did email these a little bit earlier that might give uh people a little bit additional time to take a look at them so I would suggest maybe hold off on that for right this minute that's a wise thought yes um in that case we will hold off on the um on accepting those minutes until we do have a break in the action here uh later on tonight on the second one on the second one also I take it I me it's up to the board members I I'd set one around a little bit before five o'clock and one a little before seven but okay maybe what you wanted to just do just hold the resolutions until you have the break okay that's that would be that would be appropriate um okay with that let's jump right into um the applications and we have 410 Oak Street case uh PB 24-02 um that's applicant Michael and marel Rodriguez hi good evening okay um you're the applicant correct yes okay so you solemnly swear or affirm that raise your hand the son we swear affirmed the testimony you're about to give before the board will be the truth whole truth and nothing but the truth yes okay and you're both going to be testifying all right well then why don't we let the gentleman testify first we'll see how it goes please State and spell your name for the record and give me your address it's Michael Rodriguez m i h a l r o d r i g e z 410 Oak Street here in G Jersey okay um please proceed tell the board what you want to do and why so we our plan is is to built a sun room a Four Season room on the back of the the house um we purchased a split level home in order to get to the backyard we especially when we're having any type of events we're working in the kitchen we basically got to walk around the living room down the stairs to the for into the backyard so basically we would like to build a sun room so we can also entertain in the sun room but capable of going outside from from the C itself which will be right next dining room right next to the kitchen now judging from from what I've seen on the prints um you already have a patio back there is that it okay um and I also notice that you you did have a listing of um the folks who live within 200 feet of your property yes did you notify those folks yes I okay and you have documentation for that okay great um is there a reason why why you couldn't come into compliance um as opposed to you know going out outside of the six foot um um exception that you're looking for variance to build something that's going to be a little spacious a little bigger than something that's going to look like a closet but would like to put some type of furniture in there and make it more with a family room side and did you get any negative feedback from any of your your uh Neighbors at all okay by Mike how far is the house presently off of the rear yard property line you know I'm not 100% sure about that okay well according to the plan or the site plan that I'm I'm looking at right now it looks like it is 40t how much Steve sorry 40 40 40 feet right that's I was going to say yeah all right so 40t and you now want to construct this room that's going to now be 29t off of the rear yard correct all right and you understand that 35 is what is required per ordinance correct other than the fact that you uh want it to be big enough to accommodate um the things that you want to do and it is there any other reason that you have why you need to violate the rear yard setback um there's not a reason I mean other and we uh you know our house is only 1600 square F feet and uh we just want to add a little more space to the house living space okay any other questions for the board yeah Steve bar I mean do you have a den or anything like that no I don't you have a living room what we room so to watch television you have just a living like to sit as a family you have just the living room and when we try to do Gatherings it's a very tight space okay so being with the living room dining room and kitchen we're probably talking about 500 that's the downstairs that's down and how many bedrooms three bedrooms upstairs upstairs okay what is the room that is directly adjacent to where you're going to put the sun room D room so is this really going to be expanding the size of the existing dining room or is it going to be a separate room it's going to be a separate and it will have Heating and and uh cooling correct yes I have a P tag is it is it entirely on the patio it's going to be all just the end of the patio is it going to be um above the patio above the paum above it so it's going to be up correct okay that's what I thought I saw and I'm like not not on the ground level approximately I think like four feet looks like Ryan Adams is the he's your architect correct okay we can ask him those questions well wait we'll finish your testimony first sir then we then you'll call your next witness okay are there any other board members who have any questions of this St yeah yes on the side of anyone else okay if that's all for this witness anyone from the audience have any uh or the general public have any questions of this applicant seeing none I'll close that portion of the board Board of the meeting rather um it's just we're already done with that yeah um okay you have another witness that you'd like to call yes okay great Mr Adams do you Som we swear affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do okay please State uh you spell your name and give me your address Adams and your address um give you my New Jersey live in Florida my office is 1199 rout 22 and you're an architect sir no I'm the technical director for the compan the architect Works under me as do all the other people in the process of manufacturing control everything okay been doing this for 30 years over here and bit longer not bit longer than that a few years before I decided to this lovely right so you so you're not providing professional architecture T no but anything pertaining to the room itself and if you ask any question is this a pre this a pre-manufactured room the way you're saying this yes it is yeah they're all built nothing as a modular it's all made to measure for every other customer that we do but it is made in the factory sent out put on the bases prepared before it gets in all right so you're going to provide some testimony then about what's being built by your company yeah there's some question there on there about I heard yes um on the plans I believe it's A5 you'll see the dimension up to the floor 54 Ines down to the gra that's in line with the exting floor level of happens so the floor of the addition is going to be level with the dining room correct that Mr Rodriguez just testified to cor between two now will there be any storage underneath that uh that it's going to be wide open I see that that it is currently I was just so but most likely something like that is something that's going to look nice but essentially then the addition is going to be up on stilts is that what you're testifying down yes full Foundation anyone else have any questions yeah B oh can I'm sorry [Music] but yet on the other Jo shows the stairs are in line with the little porch area that comes straight down there was a change in thatan you can make that yeah we're actually gonna go parallel with the room okay so correct on those thiser outside what sheet is that e E1 or the yeah I saw that all right I so the one with the steps will be A4 that's that's what you're in agreement with right correct yes A4 right okay this is the patio and what yeah bill I'll just quick question for you which side is the um or where are the stats stairs accessing to to and front Okay left hand side adjacent to the patio put another way they will be on the interior of the property not next to the sidey yard setback is that correct correct okay yeah Bill oh yeah K go ahead more concerned this might just be housekeeping but sidey setback is short yeah that's that it doesn't need variance that's because it's existing nonconforming but this is not existing nonconform and you're exactly going to where my next question was because that's my first issue I wanted to make sure the stairs were not going into the side yard setback but p is exactly correct and that's where I was going am I correct um Mr Adams that the proposed sun room is going to be flushed so that the side yard of the house um will be a straight line as as opposed to all right but that's the point the point is if the side of this addition is going to be or 4.29 ft away from the side yard setback which is this part which is the line of the existing house that puts this addition into the side yard setback do you agree uh yes I do yes okay that's a problem and the problem is that you would need a variance to extend the line of the house outside of the building on okay so the choices here are and that has not been noticed correct Dell well we have is there a variance application here there's one variance and that's with a rear yard they've requested a rear yard variance have they requested a side no but it's even though it's it says conform existing non but it's not but it's not pre-existing oh because you're extending it but even though you're on the same line you're extending that so you're going you're going into that pre-existing yeah noning it's got to be addressed I mean I think it has to be addressed and frankly that's a pretty easy basic variance here that is being requested it's not to me it's not something that is so unanticipated that I think that it's fair to just say in any other any other variance necessary covers it I really think that that variant should be separately noticed um it's it's a close call but I would be inclined to say that there should really be a separate notice or the notice should say specifically that you're asking for a side yard setback you asked for the rear yard setback and that's what I understood it to be but you're really asking for a sidey setback Bill you're a professional in the area I I invite you do you see it the same way I do yeah I mean we talking about 8 inches now I'm sitting here struggling you know do I do I find that to be diim or not I hate that word and I hate say that well the reason I don't the reason I don't say it's the Minimus I'm going to look at that as a percentage and if a five yard setback on the side is necessary and we're losing you know um not five yards excuse me five feet five feet set setback is necessary and you're losing three qus of a feet of a foot you're it's like probably what 15% of the side yard setback is being eliminated can I say something with with regard to the a five foot side yard that was changed that ordinance was changed in the 2000 about 200000 2007 um or 2005 2006 it went to five feet but before that it was um three feet three or four feet this house was built but I'm complete I'm not in any way addressing the merits of whether or not that should be granted I'm not discussing that at all I'm only talking about the notice issue I I don't have an opinion and and if I did have an opinion I'm not offended by the idea of keeping the line of the house I I'm just like saying from a notice perspective I and and and just to add that from a notice perspective that would mean that for for this for this to be corrected they would have to Ren notice Ren notice and republish and say they want the side yard setback it's a I mean it's a close call uh but to do it for eight inches it's not the eight inches I know I understand I'm I'm not arguing the merits of the variance what does the notice say they' noticed 10691 29 for the construction of EX I it's I it's it's Thank You Adele was there a plan included in the notice the show the setback the side guard setb anyone else have any uh any questions of the board yeah Maran it's a p system 2 Mr chairman yeah I would suggest um that the board should decide whether the board wants to sustain my interpretation that um that the sidey yard should be separately um noticed or go ahead Bill no go ahead bill put same same same okay the other question you don't know me but theard members would be quite SE question I no there no sh trees and see they all um we do try to get Ed property I would love to have a tree in front yard bill is that a gift [Laughter] pardon St St Steve yeah uh Steve yeah I was just want to go back to um the space underneath the proposed edition how how deep is how yeah 53 in is theor of the dep of the Flor take about clear space would if I mean if I were a neighbor I might be concerned with looking at stuff that's placed under there would you be willing to put like lattice work up so that already plann to do that you'd accept that as a condition if the board would approve I just want to point out something uh on plan A4 it says that the clearance from the grades to floor level is 33 inches on that plan on the right the right section is that in a discrepancy with the 54 and a half that's just dra okay act one is that's the 54 and a half inches yes yeah okay um anyone else yes we don't see that in the plans not available to us and now you're testifying that you're going to have a separate unit for heating in air conditioning for this unit set not presented understand your question but what they are they go to of it is on the inside of the room obvious theide from no there's a selfcontained like what in a hotel room yeah when you see that sitting inside the hotel Mr mccormic maybe I could clarify the question for the record um is the new UN that you're contemplating for the air conditioning going to protrude further into the side yard than the existing house there's a gr that goes say the obviously the grill comes out about three in is the thickness of the grill and is that going to be in line with the new addition or is that going to be in line with the existing house uh ex house we make sure nothing got the TR that existing house level so there's I'm confused yeah confused if I look at it where the existing condenser units are where are they they are so if we're looking at the house it's on the left side okay the house so left side looking at it from Mo right sir right and if I was looking at it from Oak Street it's on the left side of the house correct yes all right and those condenser units are located alongside of the existing house correct yes so another way of saying it would be that the existing units are within the 5 foot setback that's that's the present condition correct yeah all right is whatever you're going to put on the outside of the part to be built going to protrude any closer to the property line than the existing condenser units and is the whatever it is you're going to put on the outside that is going to be new is it going to be parallel with the new part to be built or is it going to be parallel with the existing house they're the same they're the same that's why I don't understand well no is it going to be as deep into the property as where the existing house is or is it going to be in the back where the addition is that's not what I yeah what I thought that's what I was trying I was trying to establish that for the record the point is that that part of the addition will in fact be slightly closer than 4.3 feet to the property line where the condens grill that's all I was trying to establish but the existing condenser units extend even further than that on the sidey yard correct so what is the distance between the the end of the existing condenser units and the N next door neighbor or the or the uh your your property line yeah yeah very okay okay thank you I have yeah go ahead I have a question um um since it's since it's uh not built yet correct so right now you have a slab that's all that St um and we're discussing inches inches not even yeah you know 4.29 feet off the side yard and then I noticed that the roof line goes even further in into the side yard um as per A5 okay um okay what if you just take it and move it to the left eight there you go eight inches I'm just asking that question you know what this and this way you don't need the you wouldn't need the side yard you can have the roof line the way you want it um I think it would satisfy everybody's you know I'm okay with that and also then they won't need yes then there's no notice issue correct okay so that's that's definitely not yeah that's definitely not okay so that's going to be part of the resolution that we're going to develop yes it is truthfully we can also do a minis split where nothing is on the outside but a condenser next to it's preexisting there now put that's preexisting I I think we have a just clarified so that we have some suance of a clear record the suggested modification to the application is that the addition to be constructed will be moved moved I'm going to say to the left I'm just look at where the north is it will be moved in a Northerly fashion so that it's further away from Locust Avenue far enough so that none of the new construction will be within five feet of the sidey yard property line is that your testimony Mr Rodriguez yes thank you okay perfect well you you can do whatever it's not as long as it's not with our esteemed attorney is writing up the resolution so he will state it accordingly um but is that is that all your testimony now okay um with that any other questions of the board okay then I think at this time um we can take a vote and uh decide first give the public an opportunity test I'll open it up to the general public for anyone with uh any commentary or questions of this applicant seeing now I'll close that portion of the meeting and uh now I will open it up for any further discussion among the board members I I think that that it's okay for this um applicant um since he's going to move you know move it so it's um uh uh uh so uh he has the uh five foot uh side yard I don't have a problem with the the you know like the back a rear yard setback um so I'm okay with it and you know wish you luck with it okay and I'm an agreement um yeah that I think that was a a very good um compromise to uh come up with so that's good on your part and on our part anyone else yes Steve I went to a site um and I did notice that the adjacent uses are the buildings on the adjacent lots are pretty far removed uh and and the neighbor to well the right looking at the house from the backyard has a a white plastic fencer in this property so but looking at the one variance that we've got which is the the rear yard the improvements on that lot are no one knew about see I'm ask you to to move your mic closer and to make sure it's on it's on so so what I said was just looking at the properties uh in the area and this one the neighbor to the back which is now the only variant that's required the the house and there might be a small little out building there nowhere near the property line you know which really would suggest absence of an impact from this variant on that NE anyone else anyone discussion okay um with that do I hear a motion okay relocated North oning on the patio L insted underneath the uh C to the vi that the um sighting on the center need be the same as the rest of the house and if the app plant app plants treat consist with the sh um and that's it bill just one question about you say the eight inches is it minimum eight inches you wanted or okay just so that it does not violate the sidey setback notate I will second that motion okay rollot Mr chairman yes you might take this different but I disagree with Mr n that I don't think that the applicant should have to cover the underside of this operation this porch with lattice and I don't think he's here before us to plan a tree so I'm having a hard time with this but I approve where we're going for forward but I just disagree with Mr nearad okay thank you that's on the record roll call I I I I I I hi okay congratulations good luck good luck so Mr R Mr Rodriguez just see you know you're not a a frequent flyer here as your as our next applicant um what'll happen is at the April meeting the board will memorialize this um and um then uh it'll be after that happens that you'll be able to apply for whatever permits okays I had no doubt that you had uh some experience with it but I wanted for the record to tell Mr Rodriguez appreciate it thank you congratulations good luck that's spoken from the boss because animals okay and we have a uh our next applicant and that's um two North Avenue um General business Zone that's case pb1 19-0 01 and it's proposed phasing plan for the previously approved uh plan Mr issu I'm sorry I'm just going to recuse myself as it was a variance and I think I'll be recusing myself also okay thank you to the aformentioned frequent flyer Mr Al I had a conversation with the the mayor and council person I'm not entirely clear whether uh the nature of this application is such that the use variance rules would still apply or not but I felt in the uh most conservative exercise of discretion that it would be appropriate that the mayor and council person recuse themselves unless you feel differently no no I mean great to see them and I'm glad that we here but uh yeah I I don't have any issue I think that's I think that's the question is better part of valor on yeah I don't disagree at all all right Mr H okay thank you so much for your time this evening so again Stephen hail representing the applicant to LAX M detri uh Wine and Liquors thank you so much for accommodating us this evening and I just want to give a brief background on what our request is I I know this application was granted quite some time I know I know a bunch of you were on the board at the time uh there's some members that weren't uh but what we're looking for we're not looking to change any of the conditions of the previous approval not looking to change ultimately what's being built there the layout the engineering Ingress egress all that that's going to remain uh the only thing we're looking for is relief from the board to phase the project uh we know that oftentimes there's phasing of projects let's say You're Building three warehouses or three apartment buildings you come in and say okay well we have a phasing plan we want to build building one and then when that's done building two and then building three clients are here and uh they're available to speak but it's it's been a tough go of things for businesses since covid this was proved before the covid factor and uh it's and we all know I guess and there's bunch of people that do construction and construction on the side the cost of construction have gone through the roof and so what they're looking to do is and Mr waga can explain in more detail is to first get uh have the board agre to this phasing plan where they would in essence do the liquor store first it would be built all the site improvements for ultimately for the apartments up above which was the main reason that triggered the the D variant before the board the liquor store and the retail itself is a permitted use it's the residential portion and a lot of the business up and down the business corridors are doing that so that's what triggered the D variant so the building is going to be constructed with all of the infrastructure to ultimately add the residential above it and um I also mentioned uh I guess Ken and I spoke earlier that that it's it's going to have the the pad for the elevator and the second floor will be built exactly the way it ultimately was approved uh so uh that's that's the the relief that we're seeking from the board to just okay our phasing plan because we go to the construction Department they're going to say well where's your whole building uh as opposed to why you just applying now that's not consistent with with your approval and no impact upon the variances that we're seeking the site plan drainage landscaping or otherwise so that's the relief that we're seeking from this board again they've been business people in uh in guard for many years and uh and it's a beautiful building uh but it will be ultimately be the two-story with the residential above it just want to do the a phasing of the project Mr H you just said and um variance you're seeking you're not seeking any variances now correct I just want to be clear for the record yeah no no it's we're not looking to intensify uh exacerbate or otherwise impact any of the VAR well there was a note on there about a bulk variance exception that I noticed in the application in the old app or and it's oh wait put another put another way you previously had contain certain variances you want to keep those variances you want to get no new variances corre you just want to do part of the build now and part of the build at some point down the road and Reserve or preserve the variances you previously received is that another way putting it correct okay so um what I wanted to do just to clarify if it would be of benefit is Mr wagas here and he has a a plan that shows it it's and I apologize when I submitted my first request sorry that the the phasing plan was little notations on the bottom of the sheet and that's why I did that clarifying letter today when I got Victor's uh heads up that there were some questions as to what we were doing but I thought perhaps Mr waga could briefly explain what we're looking to do by way of phasing okay I could say you previously qualified born but that was several years ago I know the ass squirm the testimony you're about to been Tru the whole truth nothing left the I do and you're still a licensed architect and your licenses are all in good standing corre all licenses and all states are good standing you previously qualified as an expert architect as an expert architect before this board Mr chairman I recommend that Mr wager be accepted as an expert witness so be it very while you heard my long winded explanation of what's going on here but if you could briefly explain to the board confirm what I indicated about uh the same project that's going to be built just phasing and just take the board through the plans I think they're just mounted versions of what was submit yeah we can do that I mean I've thought I've been working on this with with our clients and the applicants for numerous years now so I'm very intimate with the project if we need the larger presentation boards I brought them as a backup but um I think we can go ahead and uh proceed without if that's okay the the the only drawings that I have here are the represented boards that are represented by the reduction the reduce prints that are in front of you I did prepare for those no new board members a a special exhibit three pages reduced um so it could kind of bring you up to speed as to where the project was but again I've got it memorized if we need a visual I'll distribute them um the project was was presented in front of this board number of years ago as Mr ha alluded to uh it did receive approval uh the original base footprint was approximately 6,400 square feet we're now reducing that footprint to um to 3700 just over 3700 square feet uh the intent of this phase approach is to uh uh remove and demolish the existing service station or what was the lousine rental area the rental space on the left um maintain the liquor store build the new single story uh shop the liquor store at roughly 3700 Square ft to within a distance suitable enough to get our footings and Foundations in for the new facility once there that that is erected conditioned we'll move the uh the contents of the liquor store into the existing liquor store into the new liquor store demolish the existing liquor store uh coated with gravel for now as part of part of phase one all as as Mr ha alluded to all side aspects that were previously approved five years six years ago will be in fact implemented during this phase one as well phase two once finances are back up in place we're basically going to build the right side of the retail and then build the second floor Apartments all the structure will be set in place now for that second floor building we'll be providing the footings and foundations for the new stair that will take us to the second floor on the interior we'll be providing the elevator PAD as well we'll just be covering it okay so that that Foundation um is also uh uh presented in a sense now so we don't have to disrupt business uh when phase two happens U so all the aspects of the second floor structural support mechanisms will set in place now site work set in place now and again just waiting on finances to re reestablish and then complete the second phase okay the original buildings height to top of highest paret at the center point for those of you who remember was approximately 33 and A2 ft we're now going to be at about 1710 creating a power pet just high enough to screen the rooftop unit as well as the compressors for the two walk-in boxes okay so they won't be visible from North Aven before from Windslow um again it's a simple phased approach we're hoping that this board accepts um our testimony our presentation tonight and um the last thing as I always end with is all of our building components now and in the future will satisfy all current codes uh as in place so we we we've had to adapt now the code changed last year to the 2021 New Jersey International building code we will adapt to it originally our original applications we going to comply with the 2018 uh International building code and then again once phase two happens if the code changes technically that second application will evolve with the code change the code New Jersey changes usually every three years that is my my presentation I open it to questions okay thank you I'll open it up to the uh to the board yo Maran very at this and understand no refence application and showing how that's impact Bing plan would show the entire development and then it would show what's actually being faed and so this and and this is just you know being in the design construction industry this looks like a stand any reference just trying to understand like are there this first pH no no there are no Apartments going above that's what I'm saying so there's nothing nothing going above is the first pH the first that I just described is is yes that's what I'm saying yes down the road so how how is that so this would be anet EST yes then let's say three years from now you're going to build apartment correct so how does that impact now you're going above the how does that overall elevation design development well again it'll be something that'll that'll be planned logistically to incorporate to allow us to incorporate the there'll be times at moments I'm sure there'll be periods where the store may have to shut down for that transfer of of equipment up to the new rooftop but at that point you know we'll have to determine that logistically in I guess just pH two and maybe this is just me but it's difficult when I look at this so so Maran I don't know if I can answer all your question but I was here years ago when we approved this plan and we just heard testimony that this will never exceed 33 feet correct correct correct so I don't see how that changes anything it just seems to me that this is the financial burden and they doing part one before they go with for part two so I don't see how we can diverse this but that's in my opinion that's not speaking for you or anybody else on the board no and I totally understand the economics understand it just to me um would have anticipated seeing like colorful yeah colorful pictures of what was okay and what's the differences now right mayor perhaps yeah as I alluded to earlier I did bring these reduced special exhibits I've got three sheets I can distribute those yeah I think that would be good because she wasn't here especially to the ones who have not was here he wasn't here and I don't think Steve barkham was here either um alltimers were here I think a lot of with all right so let's mark the Steve let's mark the exhibit to with the regular way build on top of that so is there an impal cations and how you kind of work through that well well you'll see you'll see on on the sheet sheet everybody first of all let's get a little let get a little control What's Happening Here Mr H thank you hand those out thanks if I might suggest Mr H why don't you have Mr wagget with reference to the exhibits explain what has presently been approved first yeah so uh s waga if you could please take the board through each page of this exhibit and as indicated then take us through after you go through the exhibit the phasing sure so so you have three sheets in front of you se1 se2 se3 SE for special exibit okay if we jump to to sheet se3 that'll give the newer board members a uh a brief uh graphic description of what was previously approved and adopted by this board uh we had a retail element which is an approved use in the zone at the ground level and then we had a four apart four one-bedroom apartments which were approved on the second floor along with a area utilized just for the liquor store for additional storage on the left side okay so I showed the two the two just a second Mr as I look at the proposed front elevation at the top of exhibit or page se3 yes are you saying that the three windows on the left side are the storage unit for the liquor store correct all right yes go ahead thank you so again this is what was approved and submitt submitted and approved I only showed the Winslow uh uh Terrace uh elevation on the left side which is the left side elevation and the North Avenue elevation because the other two uh you know were more utilitarian in nature the uh survey um on the left side of the sheet is the uh previously approved uh footprint um and that will ultimately we labeled it phase two because it'll ultimately Encompass that originally approved footprint uh that was established here a number of years back all right now we move over to sheet se1 and that's just a general key plan um I provided this board again with just a refresher on the schedule of General requirements for uh what this Zone permits what it how how it exists and what was proposed um you know we we required 7,000 square F feet we're existing at just over three times that at 21628 uh and then the various other elements which we satisfied um during our last uh approval process sheet se2 now now provides maybe uh uh for Miss hay uh now provides you with an existing conditions plan or or or fot plan indicating that one story masonry building centered on the site and the uh other single story um uh Mason rebuilding which is currently the liquor store which is off to the center right of the site the proposed phase one is then indicated on uh the right side of sheet se2 where we're going to construct the uh remove the existing single story masonry building which is the limo the old limo rental company and construct our new liquor store and then you'll see just to the left of that or to the right of that you'll see a dash line which uh depicts the existing footprint of the existing store which will be taken down and as noted existing structure to be removed Mr wag I'm just going to interrupt right here if I respectfully may do we have a picture of what phase one is going to look like that right given us a picture yes it's in your it's in your packet that that I submitted to this board okay oh so it's that's okay so it's not part of what we're being handed today that's fine in here all right well I'll just hold that up for the board right here okay it's your she one it's your sheet a-201 okay got it okay thank you so in the in the footprint of the current liquor store that's going to be demoed out and left open until phase two yes so what's and what's and it's gonna be fenced in and you're just gonna leave gravel it's going to be like that for how many years I don't know I don't know yo you wouldn't PVE you wouldn't pave the lot and have it in a a better looking situation than having construction fence up for multiple years we could pave the lot we could use it as outdoor there is a dual license at dietrix so they could we could create an outdoor uh serving area or plant grass or plant grass and a tree and a tree y That's a good that we can do that commissioner yes so it's not sitting there looking like constru I fin to that um I don't have any problem but my my issue is exactly what and what I have under is how long and when what guarantees somewhere out here says you know you have for issuance with cos well we know the game we all know the games that get played with cosos you get it temporary and you know so Mr H you're very impr front withy Okay I don't have problem you have a problem with two things number one and you can explain this to me sure every page says um propos Foundation plan says existing one story struct remain until new structure is completed I'm sorry I'm reading about the C hang on the other one hru Shan about support a one story structure isn't that incorrect you have two no we're going to have a one story strle building on top eventually so [Music] been you know my wingman on this as I've been his back and forth the clients are devoted to this municipality um they want to to establish and grow here and continue to grow uh unfortunately as Mr ha mentioned uh we had a virus right and and you know a 2x4 in nine months went up my God 70% I know 700% anyway my final point is we've been so so getting back to the prising it's it's a typographical error that was an oversight okay it should be a single story it's not it's eventually going to be two stories it's a single story but it's it should have said one story but we've been through so many iterations right I do not doubt for Nan architect what kept throwing me here was well he's going to be building a structure that's going to support two stories correct so why is this continually say building one St you should be saying you're going you're going to construct the building such that at a lady date the Second Story We and I understand what this is commercial and people living above so so as long as we're consistent with two St then I want to go back to but we approved it Bill pardon we approved it I so so the second the second question is and Mr H I don't know what you or your client can offer in terms of guarantee because you know we have buildings uh we have buildings right around the corner from New York and BR Place avenue where there no C issu with people are living there so I say that only because I don't I I only speak myself I'm not going going to accept that you know the construction will start within you know six months of the issum of the C you know I agree my fellow commissioner that we can't be looking at gravel for three years and Mr wager you know how long I've been doing it yes and the word temporary I don't understand it right that dious I know that's right temporary diim understand you're actually right so what we talking understood what are we talking about and I don't think by the way it's unreasonable to ask time periods they can't be met the come back right come back yeah i% certainly they wouldn't want at a gateway to burrow having gra I don't um I don't think you could have it um like over there anyway because they use that as a uh Road you know and it um and it also uh floods a little bit during a heavy storm structure what you use like on the side of it not a public road but they use it as a to the apartment that's the property netw okay but um you know we just take a minute yes okay why don't we take why don't we take a five minute break matter of fact why don't we take a 10-minute break this way we get an opportunity to review some of some of the items that we have to very brilant yeah on [Music] I that okay I had guys share on today I've had this on since no I had it on today that's true I agree yeah why not good and your sleeves are unruffled they they wanted put in the thee you relation a liquor store and a tree come on what's I would house and a tree yes well you said no you said you would go home you didn't see why I said houseing tree not Liquor St tree wait hold on I was six o'clock this morning it's it's called obligation when I can hop on a plane and two and a half hours later and then babysit all day for my grandson he's down [Music] allow sure have a that's the real is fine put pleas you work very hard on that stuff incist but on yeah I wanted you of attorney State work and div okay folks can we bring it back together again all right uh thank you so much for giving us time to speak to our clients about the uh phasing uh plan and project so in discussing it with them uh what we would like to offer to the board is that phase one would commence they'd like to start at tomorrow so say 90 days to start phase one they'll immediately apply for all perits and approvals and I can work with uh Mr Frasier on the uh getting the resolution adopted as soon as possible phase two because of the seasonal nature of the liquor business they'd like to say 18 months after completion of phase one uh to commence phase two 18 months after the completion of phase one and then during uh the inum period that that area that was uh where the de demolition was would be grass okay so that's what we would love the board now that on 18 months from um I mean like it'll be all done in 18 months um well B like after phase one begins in 90 days yes after you know the adoption of the resolution yes and then phase two would begin with within 18 months of the compl building of the completion yeah when they're in you mean the co1 phase one correct okay and if and if in fact that does not occur then you realize that you'll have to come before come back here yes and this well well let's be clear about that if they have to come back here are we all saying that that means that there is no more use variants for phase two or what do you mean by comeback year no we would have to come back for uh a modification or extension modification of the phasing plan plan I still think it's Prudence dictates because the project itself is a d variance the use variance that it's prudent that this board be acting as as the zoning board wearing those hats and again I don't have any problem with that it triggers triggers right but I just wanted and I'm I'm not arguing with you with M with you Mr H I want to understand this I want to understand this so I got the about fine they're going to start their phase one between with within 90 days of the memorialization of a resolution no problem I got that they're saying all right once we get a CO on phase one we have 18 months to start phase two I got that where I'm struggling is I want to understand all right I'll use the word what are the consequences of not doing something within 18 months of the issuance of the phase one Co that's what I'm trying I'm not arguing I want to understand it I think it would be incumbent upon us to come back here to adjust that phasing plan or frankly I don't think we need to address that now but if they say we're just going to do that one part and we're going to abandon the rest of it we'd have to come back to this board for an amended site plan approval okay so that the board always has we're always knowledgeable about what's going on yeah understood Bill the only thing I really need to understand what's your definition of getting the co I would say temporary or permanent or temporary C okay you put in temporary okay that that that yeah I feel better about that yeah because you're gonna be held up on yeah we all know the games and everything else if they're in there that seem to be completion maybe I'm but is isn't phase two I think is let's start you know okay you're standing correct meaning they have the occupancy of it it could be Landscaping outside what what is phase one again does that include both doors of the first no it's the construction uh of the the new liquor store demo of the old liquor store right yeah which the demo of the old liquor store the plan is that's going to immediately follow the construction and occupancy of the new liquor store in other words the new store gets built they move everything in the liquor gets moved over then the old building goes down yeah correct I don't know if we need to include that in Theo but I'm sure I'm sure my clients will make sure that's done so my question to the applicant and the board is as we approved this I guess a year and a half ago we had many traffic studies and how trucks would enter this property and exit this property are they still going to be the same as it was approved for yes hold on I'm not done yet I'm sorry as a business and residents above as a temporary liquor store and then proceeding forward to maybe Poss have something in addition or is is the traffic light going to change because there was a lot of conversation about how we're going to change the traffic pattern coming into the liquor store is that still the same all going to remain the same okay just wanted to make that clear thank you you got it but what phase is the second building is that phase three the the right hand no the the second floor and or the you have the first you new liquor store and the demo and the demo of the correct phase two is the second first floor building and the second floor oh the oh the new building and then the second floor on both correct it'll be building yeah that's phase two oh which the second floor would never that's where Mr cabano that's where the confusion lies and the misinterpretation and and I thank you for your patience on that uh but we've been through so many iterations it was an oversight on my my behalf so I hope my so it's going to be two phases not three correct correct and then now phase one is going to be after the resolution go through and there's going to be the construction permits correct get everything ready correct what is the estimation of frame to complete phase one they want to be in before the end of the year by October no by before before November 1st is the goal and then start phase two after that time 18 months up to 18 months after that time 18 months talking about February February of 26 another three years correct three and a half years yeah that' be correct that's reason I guess my question would be phase two would not be anything more that we approved prior to this correct sir is that correct correct ultimately thank you what you approved originally is what on to them as time for pres okay all right thank you um anyone else um questions of this witness in that case I'll uh open it up to the general public any uh public here have any comments or questions of this witness seeing that I'll close that portion of the meeting uh discussion among the board members I think it's I think um um um um um it's uh reasonable uh to have it done with you know to have it uh begin within within uh with within 90 days and then I mean for phase one and then to have the second phase within um 18 months and I would I would I would totally agree with that um I would just like some kind of a um a notification to uh har Consultants maybe once every four to six months just heads up where where are we at and uh are we on on timeline that uh that is 18 months after initial Victor's not that far away I'm sure he'll get TS on things okay to say that but I yes I think it I think it almost has to be with the brook there right we we were working with Dynamic we we'll go over that with or de see that okay anyone else from the board sure y that's that's that's a great suggestion now thank you today we started we started about 10:30 this morning so we did our best for for tonight to try to um incorporate a presentation that would allow the new members of the board uh to be able to catch up uh over a sixe period and then about 25 minutes you look at Mr it's really paper par so that's why all own wased yeah that's right odd pull out of that driveway's no traffic sign traffic signal right right you don't know what yeah all right anyone else from the board have any uh question yeah just again on the phasing I'm looking at se3 and the dash dash lines and the drawing on the left side it just looks to be a space between those two well there is yeah we've left we've left sufficient uh we've left sufficient space off of the existing structure in order to allow our quien pay play for our new footings and Foundations okay okay so that's why we left that space all right um we couldn't build right up against the building and we didn't want to stay off the building too much so we came as close as possible provide and not compromise our accessibility for any type of heavy machinery during the construction correct so because at the top of the page it says proposed front elevation and that's one continuous yeah that was so I just that that was part of this special exhibit that I wanted to bring because I don't think you were part of this hearing back uh you come on the year after um so I just wanted to better assist the board in showing what was approved and what the the original intent was but that's what it's going to look corre yeah EV after the second building anyone else just explain to Mr B about the foundation and being able to get close enough to it whatever yes you change it that that the dimensions of the footprint of the foundation of that building are not changing no sir no sir we align with if we were to superimpose the new structure directly over what was previously approved the rear Winslow and North Avenue are all in the line we just cut the building back off of the existing so that we could uh construct it in a proper fashion without affecting or compromising the Integrity of the footing and foundation and I I Miss if I didn't just mention that by projecting this out for this long period of time and having two separate construction periods it's going to be an effect on the neighbors that out anyone else okay um hey Bill you're not going to mention any shade trees they're already on I just want to make sure because you weren't on the board at that time I don't know I'm not sure if you were here maybe I should Contin this rest in area planting tree I was G to close the tree okay no bike wrecks okay with that do I hear a motion I'll make that motion to uh okay wait a minute wait I'll make a motion hold on uh um to okay the phase in of uh phase one and phase two uh phase one would be would start within uh 90 days of the the uh resolution and the second phase would begin um within 18 months of the um CEO of phase one or either yeah temporary Co of phase one um and the covering of grass and the covering of grass on the correct um and subject to submission of a uh a phasing plan updated which is which was completed right okay that that will be my motion do I hear a second okay roll call please yeah Steve so is the February 26 dat is that the date to finish phase two no so so if I may so we're planning on starting within 90 days phase one okay we're we're going to be finished before the end of the year by October November the latest of this year you're hoping you're hoping NO phase one phase one single story structure will be completed by October or November of this year upon issuance of either temporary certificate of occupancy or certificate of occupancy uh 18 mons from that day of issuance we will commence with phase two which is anticipated to be sometime in February March of 20126 about two years from now start phase start phase two yes sir do we need anything in writing from them well that's that's what I brought up I brought that up it's gonna be in the resolution and they're going to give updates periodically to Harbor Consultants on on a and that was part of your motion too cath the periodic updates in Harbor Consultants yeah like four months every um four months three months that's fine three months is quarterly that's kind of standard right okay quarterly no problem yes all right so there's a motion we're waiting for a second uh I think uh rich rich second it okay roll call please I I I hi I I thank you so much okay thank you good luck good luck okay now I'm sure everyone has had an opportunity to review the minutes no the resolution resolutions rather can we do the um can we do the the uh use use uh resolution first that's an easy one yeah get that out M sure um okay we have a resolution for 110 South Avenue that's uh applicant um Howard Street 165 Howard Street um and uh there was a resolution that was handed out and if everyone is had an opportunity to review it or if there were any concerns questions raise them if not I'll I'll I'll make a motion I'll entertain a motion don't make that motion all right we have a motion we have a second roll call yes yes um hang on the use one look at item number c on page six thank you very much I all right motion carries now we have um time sure okay is that enough now Victor while while everyone's reviewing um with the resolution are you going to monitor and make sure that everything is is complied with oh no no no I'm talking about Windslow now I'm talking about Winslow if you do this you're gonna not be paying attention in doing the resolution that's true okay Victor if we talk about Windslow they're not going to work on the resolutions all right we'll wait till we're everyone's ready bill want to do something mindless through Victor's invoices no we don't have to anymore no we're not doing any I just sign off yes as as of when a month ago we don't have we never did really okay oh because the rest no not not only that we not all right I didn't know nobody told me we were changing the procedure I didn't get the memo I just got his back weeks that was that was his discre chair still get them I don't care that was Adele last year I know just as long it's it's not it's not a budget thing are you finished we ready the reason I asked for that is because um on separately I I speak myself I okay and I'm reading um remov let's go to uh page seven letter D okay um the grass included in um Mr V is the grass tree even there anyone it appeared to me as no it's it's there I I I physically went in the back and looked at it still there it's it's there yes wait minute wait a minute what is Grass Grass Creed is is instead of pavement have these old sares that's not there it is there I I was back there really not it's p are you certain did you walk in the back excuse me back EXC yes excuse definitely did that more than once it's on the plan but I Ste I believe Steve is exactly correct I don't believe that the grass creete Mr Barkin I don't believe that the grass creete had yet been installed the grass creete I thought was being proposed and that was part of how they were gonna make this happen okay that's fine I thought I saw that I app right I thought they did that yeah that's what I'm talking about I was there about two weeks ago and I walked the back and there was grass creete there yeah all right you'll be you'll be the ref okay good fair enough nonetheless none nth less they the the approval is conditioned upon them doing the Grass Creek right um letters I I uh the mul and Stones shall be Place grass okay the applicant has been out there and I'm sorry look at I the applicant has been out there the applicant has done some work and Don I understand where you're going to be coming from when finish it but let's take the uh walkway along side he's removed do Bill those Provisions are written in there to be responsive to be responsive to board members who have emphasized this is that the applicant has tried to comply with these conditions already but part of the concrete he's three- foot sidewalk he's removed three and half why do he leave six inches in the back he's removed three4 of the Stone oh there still much still there so Mr V I guess I'm saying if if I'll bet you he think he done and I appreciate your review of it going after there to make sure he doesn't no how would you have had me write it no no what you wrote is fine no what you wrote is fine what I'm advising the board okay I think one again okay have we don't know they'll figure that part out sorry I for a second I'm sorry I'm sorry all right all right let's let's let's cost you money to get out there with a crew and remove why do you only remove he's got I'm making this number okay uh 6ot by 30t area of stone why do you remove 6ot by 25 but leave the rest of here I think he thinks he's done he's removed Stone from the front of the building and put in Grass I think he's done I think Mr bayor gonna have a fun fun time making sure he good but well that's why we have the resolution bill it's in right now it's in black and white okay he has to comply all right and I saw that on the left side he ripped out that concrete all right and he put some like in the back he didn't he didn't rip out like underneath the um air conditioners all right but what we're doing now is we're memorializing which we have done we're not doing enforcement now yeah I understand that but I that won't stop okay we okay Jesus and do we have any other yeah Steve no I mean and I I'm sorry I didn't read it when I was home that's terrible no don't don't you apologize I apologize Steve I know what time this got distributed it's fine we're we're friends it's okay but I mean I just want to say what I've seen a week or two ago and again today um and keep it in mind as you crues there used to be I call like a large oval which I it's been mentioned at the hearing last month of big rocks so you would walk over those to get to the death and it was mentioned a number of times in that meeting and there's a provision here for that to be Liv instead what he did to that big oval was he took a three feet here and left it in here and took out three feet here and where he took it out he put grass in so it alternates between grass and stone grass and stone the stone that he took and now for the first time and since we had the hearing he put Stone around the perimeter of the back and he left Stone in along the outside of the driveway by the fence with s end broken and he put Stone in on the sidewalk with the HBC you just I'm just giving you the background to appreciate you know what he has done uh since we last saw him it's not consistent with what Don Ro Don Ro BR in app as far as I'm concerned Stone has to go there was no reason for that so and I kept pushing for grief it does it Steve got to go Steve does it really make a difference whether or not it's uh Stone of course don't they do both the same thing it's imper I've M on my home repl delw Riv because all the rain I don't want to go back over that I'm not saying it doesn't work I'm not saying it doesn't work we didn't like the look of it Don pup asked him uh his lawyer do you does your client agree to removing the stone the mulch from replacing it with grass and removing the concrete and he talked to his client and he came back and said no to removing the concrete but we're requiring it in the proposed resolution I think good and yes will remove the stone and The Mulch and put him he said that that's the way the record was when a vote was taken the resolution yes exactly all if it's in the resolution it's in the resolution well there's a motion isn't there a motion tell do we have a motion no okay do I hear a motion I'll make that motion to approve do I hear roll call please hi hi hi hi I I okay motion carries um okay Vic you're in charge gab's problem okay let's oh we have um so I hear a motion to accept the minutes of the February 28th meeting oh we did that did did we yeah all right invitation um yeah but I think we have an invitation to speak before the board anybody anyone from the general public uh here would like to address the board seeing no one um with that I'll close it um okay and uh Kathy uh would you like to discuss your yeah um several months ago I don't know three four five months ago we discussed um the um the the the um assistance package the um application package that people fill out like when they submit an application um uh uh we met um we meaning myself uh Steve greet Steve barin and Bill nstead met um several times during the course of a few months um we have a draft that we would like everybody to look at um and and to see if we can we can do something the uh next meeting it's it's it's basically the the it's basically um it's basically more detailed and I think it's going to help us um there there's a forms in the back [Music] um that's that that does spells out everything that they should submit and if they're asking for um he waiver it's going to say it in black and white um so um Adele will be sending it out uh via U email but we have um some uh here now um like if anybody wants to take a hard copy um you guys are more than welcome to to take a hard copy because it's it's a thick package but it's but it's not only the application um we also have the the uh fees are there too um so people don't have to look at like ordinance I mean um look at uh look at uh uh section I think it's I think it's uh 106 uh 147 or something like that um it's in black and white the whole package now is like 62 pages but you don't need 62 Pages it it just depends on what they need but it's all there in black and white for everybody um um we we did a lot of work on it um well let's correct that Kathy did a tremendous amount of work yeah yeah Kathy tremendous amount work because it was a you know um we all did a lot of work on it um on everybody had their expertise so I think um like it worked out well um so uh look at it and at at at the uh at the um April meeting um will discuss it um but in the meantime if you see anything that's blatant um uh uh send um a Delan email okay because I can't say send it to me because she's the secretary she should be the central person that's it and then she'll send it you know to us or to what who she feels should get it um Steve was that okay yeah and some of the some of the items that uh we glean from surrounding townships and one of them being that I thought that was nice was the uh was the flowchart yeah and we we kind of modified it to suit our our particular uh town so it's you don't have to go someone who's new to the program here and wants to do a variance they don't have to drill down you know 66 Pages or go through the whole bunch of um you know chapter and verse um they can go through the flowchart kind of identify what's what's required and then take it from there so it makes it a little a little simpler it's not it's not as clear CL as you know it's not clean but I don't think there's any any document in this era that is completely easily maneuvered to so but Kathy I I I can't thank you enough you did a great job um a lot of work was put into it um a lot of work off the golf course well a lot of work was done um like in between golfing and the 19 poll yeah okay um if there's nothing else for discussion uh how do I hear a motion to adjourn um uh master um zoning changes or zoning ordinances maybe possibility to yeah to um yeah we need to look at to change the uh zoning ordinances with regard to the the the recommendations that we had with the with the uh master plan that we had a we had a couple of recommendations it was only two if my memory serves me right I think it's pretty good um one was offices on the first floor and the other one was uh uh side side by side um the the other item that we need to look at and um and Victor may maybe you want to weigh in on this a little bit Yeah is um we have nothing about uh knockdowns like in our code um and in discussion with Victor's office um not me I didn't discuss it um we may be looking to up up update that part but that will be so much detail that we would need something from Victor's office because there would be a cost build that's not in construction you can have build botash been NE there's also no provis that they have graded there's nothing in our code you know because again most of the new construction um we we haven't seen that many knock years but nothing before us right right so even the ones that don't go us we had two families yeah yeah in there you don't have that so technically sometimes I ask for and most AR I'm asking for prop if like if it's okay a board like as a board as a whole if we can ask for a proposal from har Consultants dou of the lot like the individual that that Avenue a large there's nothing in our ordinances if you're doubling the size top before and after CH agree has to be done so um give us a proposal yeah for the work did you actually try to expedite something there there you go thank you yeah can I add to that um I had a councilman contact me council person contact me recently um small busra small bus Association you know like to see some change in sign words well that has to come before us right right yeah so um uh and I I said yeah well the sign or hasn't hased in 40 years yeah and I tried to read back back so yeah think we might have to talk to that and then sign for to but we you know we've had this sign ordinance from God knows how long and even before I was on lot the boards like in the 1990s and I you know even before you um you were a planner that back then um you know we don't have that many sign variances so to to me you know yes we should look at it yes but we don't have any many variances come before us so I we don't but you know signs I'm GNA make a general statement I know if this true or not but I don't think any of those signs have been pered by code they permitted any in correct this was just brought to the attention because some some of the businesses had said that there was some things I suppose that they thought should be changed and wanted to but I it's you know yeah but we should okay let's let's let's look at it as as the board as a board yes what there suggestions may or may not we may or may not agree with right because we don't have you know many for us except for the the big Redevelopment plans that that's already done by Council so what we looking to just to finalize this so we can kind of adjourn um so uh Victor you if if if and when there are proposed ordinances that come up you are willing to submit something to before us so that we can weigh in on it and get it get it going okay very good I so maybe next time can also ask us an update onate can you just do it now if we want to but I was hoping no I'd like to go back a little bit you know being in the contract I mean we had been acquired for years in chadam Township to take massive hold with concrete Wells inch and a half Stone to accept rainwater drainage so it doesn't go on to dist stre or other props so in Garwood over the past couple of years we have seen that we approved a couple of developments two families two onone property massive one across that we didn't know we look like that that water should have been put into some type of drainage like we're discussing tonight I'm not blaming anybody here or anybody else I have a thing in my driveway you know I have a big Basin in my driveway that's your at you well it was built in 1988 yeah just putting it out there right now it's based on percentage of the builders do it I I asked for at times even though in the code and they the doing it right yes so but it should be cified with the [Laughter] code work proba old L bed solid but it does hold some back you know but we want to push more the gr they work better and I have up yeah and if you would um for next meeting maybe we could just yeah briefly talk about PaperPort a little bit and and get some updates on what's happening okay very good you say do we have we have a an an application for April or no and ver can we meet anyway because we have um all this other stuff yeah we have all this other stuff business St can we can we do that Steve what what that we don't have an application yeah no we yeah we can be we talked about that a little earlier yeah yeah no problem on the 25th is it 24th okay yes Steve the legislature as far as I know is considering um adopting legislation dealing with affordable housing I've heard that oh I didn't even know that who who can explain to us what what it means what it says what it means well if we have no applications for April that can be another subject on this business meeting that's fine there you go okay with that do I hear do I hear a motion do I hear I'll second it all right all those in favor I going to be horrible with we will have to Res they're going to make us res something like possible because there's just nowhere else so we have to desate something as possibilities I don't think they're gonna let us do the overlay again that's what they're saying it's very yeah be honest I think in the legislation that's overlay situation so I oh you don't think that's what that was bad as I thought what was our like 99 last time and we had 45 unmet and they were sign that last time so we'll see hope you read my application thing yeah I am and you know [Music] what e