be my back up call the glass roll Zoning Board of adjustments regular business meeting for April 18th to order Terry can you please read the opening statement pursuant to the open public meeting act I hereby announce that adequate notice of this meeting as required by set act has been provided by adopting a schedule of regular monthly meetings for the year 2024 which schedule was posted on the bur Hall bolon board now to the South Jersey Times and followed with the bur cler all rise for the salute to the flag IED Al to the FL of the United States of America and to the for stands one nation God indivisible withy andice for all can we have the roll call please Mr munin here Mr Alice here miss camea here Mr Harvey pres Mr santour here Mr Smith here Mr perner here Mr Lopez here miss laferty here and let let the record reflect that Miss Wyman has been excused us Mr casabon here and Mr Cohen here all right everybody's here Mr Alice can you please swear on our professionals certainly thank you gentem I'm going to ask each of you to raise your right hand and each of you swear affirm testimony about to give in each matter tonight is true and correct believe yes that's two yes Mr chairman okay everybody has a copy of the minutes do I have a motion to approve the minutes so move second all in favor oppos so be it all right everybody has a copy of the bills do we have a motion to pay make a motion to pay the bills second all in favor iOS so be it all right any incoming or outgoing correspondents we have just the two that I listed on the back an email and a letter from CES concerning Vision stream and Michael okay public comments is there anybody in the audience that has anything they would like to say that does not pertain to either thing that is up for this evening uh Adam schiffman 54 delc Drive um we got a variance granted about I don't know two years ago from you guys I don't know how many of the board members were here but we've been there for about a year and uh just want to say thank you to you guys for you know it's been about a year it's been uh an awesome experience so far and just thank you guys for what you do it's a thankless job you could be doing other stuff and just want to say thank you that's it thanks thank you thank you anybody else want the vot okay let's start off with ZB 23-14 forgive me if I butcher these names Anna troski and Jose defas Kentucky Avenue block 194 Lot 56 is Zone are we're looking for bulk variants to allow to build a single family dwelling on the undersized lot mat on beh of them she is stuck in traffic and 15 minutes out so if you want to take the person behind us okay she had three accidents on 295 and I missed them she she's 14 minutes out I all right no problem thank you okay ZB 23-16 Carmen and SAA 417 Hamilton Road Block 113 lot 4.02 R2 Zone bulk variants to allow the expansion of an existing driveway yep take it away thank you very much hello everyone my name is Carmen and Sana all right so you're the applicant yes all right then I'm G to you're the only one oh hey yeah how you doing so I'm going to ask you to raise your right hand and do you swear from the testimony you give tonight is true and correct the best your knowledge information believe I do great and keep your voice up because there are other people here and just state your name again for the record Carmen andana gotcha all right thank you sir Mr inana take it away so uh as I said my name is Carmen andana I am a lifelong glass BR resident and I am a landlord in town uh and I am seeking a variance for additional parking at a property that uh I built um so the uh I'm assuming that you have my application with the reasons that I believe that the board would approve my application uh so so so Mr insana you have the good fortune or the good sense have a professional planner with you that's what I'm so then because of that it's your opportunity now to utilize that resource or that U expertise right very good there you go so we're going to have this is Tiffany morsy correct also engine okay and that would be Greg Simons then I'm going to ask each of you to rise each of you to raise your right hand and do each of you swear firm testimon you're about to give this application true and correct the best knowledge information uh and believe yes yes that's two yeses so having said that back to you Mr ins to pick who you want to kick off with ladies first all right so as um the application that you have before you is for several variances because Mr insana owns property um on Hamilton Avenue um which does not 417 Hamilton Road excuse me not Hamilton Avenue it's block 113 lot 4.02 there is an existing uh dwelling on that property which was constructed in accordance with all zoning standards um and was part of a subdivision that was approved by the planning board back in 2022 the uh property has 12 bedrooms and is used for student housing the properties in your R2 residential zoning District the ordinance has limitations on parking the size of the parking lots the setback of the parking lots um and um how it's provided for on the on the on the lot itself so Mr insana has requested a variance um and it's kind of a twofold variance because if you've been by the property there's an existing driveway with sidewalk around it that existing driveway does not conform to the ordinance as it is already constructed um so we need to rectify that and then the proposal is to extend that drive drive way to the back building line to provide more parking on the property this is a 12-bedroom home that has uh is permitted and built according to the zoning code and according to the construction code the house meets the lot coverage requirements it's an 18% building coverage um and the lot is oversized the minimum lot size in this zone is 7,500 sare fet this lot is 11,250 square ft² so it's an oversiz or 11,625 F feet it's an oversized lot so there's room to provide for additional parking on the property the specific variances that are requested um are to the driveway width the driveway width is permitted at 20 feet if we include the sidewalks on both sides the driveway width would be 27.4 ft or 27.36% 5 foot setb back to the side property line we're proposing a one foot setback we will also be proposing a split rail fence down that side property line to demarcate so that you don't have vehicles getting into the grass or encroaching into the sideline any further so the proposal which is not out there yet is to Al not on site yet is to add that split rail fence to demarcate so that the property line is clear uh we also request a variance from the maximum parking area the ordinance per it's a maximum parking area of 10% or 1,000 square ft whichever is less in this case 1,000 square ft is less than 10% of the lot area the existing parking area in the front that is is existing is estimated at 1,375 Square ft for the plans we've submitted and then the extension would be another 1,69 Square ft for a total of 2,444 square ft lots of of of area for parking on this property um there are also waivers the waivers are from your design standard section of your ordinance and those waivers are consistent with the variances that I just listed as well as waivers from provide um the the section 54 of your design standards does not allow for the jockeying of cars around um it requires um that the if there's more than six spaces that the area be um curbed on the perimeter typical of a a larger type parking lot that you would see for a traditional um commercial establishment or uh an apartment complex or something of that nature and it requires um some other wavers um specific to the way this is is laid out um on the property so in this aspect what we have to explain and demonstrate to you is why why do we want to have this excessive parking area why is this variance warranted what is the situation that impacts this property that makes it make sense to Grant this variance under the C2 criteria of the municipal land use law the C2 criteria deals with um a finding that the benefits of granting the variance would substantially outweigh the detriments and that purposes of zoning are advanced in the finding of those benefits and so when we look at this property we have to look at um many factors that go into why this makes sense on this property first and foremost most the house is a permitted house it wasn't constructed illegally it wasn't converted illegally there are 12 bedrooms and there is a need for parking on the property the parking on the property to provide for the the the area around this property on Hamilton Road and the surrounding area is a permit by uh permit parking only there are limited available permits and there is no overnight parking permitted so we have 12 bedrooms there 16 16 people that are permitted to reside in the dwelling and we have to provide parking for them because they're not Park they're not able to park overnight what they do is they request a permit for the this the temporary overnight parking you can get it six times a month and they take turns getting that permit and trying to maneuver and make the parking situation work the parking lot that's there now or the driveway that's there now allows for the parking of about nine vehicles um if they line up appropriately um it is a a tight fit and it is not inconsistent with some other properties and that have similar situations where they have a number of vehicles and no on street parking available or permitted so you have to provide a place for their cars to be placed this is proximate to the campus um in at Rowan University you are a freshman or a sophomore you have to live on campus upper classmen can live off of Campus so these are upper classmen um who are at a different point in their college career where they need their vehicle they're either working part-time or they have an internship or they have other activities that are related to their daily um back and forth that require them to have a vehicle when you're a freshman in a sophomore in college you're not necessarily working you're getting acclimated um you're not necessarily having your internships at that point in time either as you get later on in college in your soft your Junior your senior year or your graduate area you do have a need to have a vehicle additionally because you can't necessarily live on campus because there's a campus housing issue um and so the upper classman choose to live off campus you have to have the ability to go grocery shopping to get the things you need to get your toilet paper to get your food to get your supplies and so you need a vehicle um in order to make that happen so the people that live in this structure in this residence require the ab require a vehicle in order to parti to in order to live and do what we do every day I have um five kids three of them are in college two of them are in high school both Juniors and seniors so I will have four kids in college next year although one's graduating so I just keep rotating right it's and when they're home they're all driving the one that is not driving will be driving this summer so at the end of this summer I will have five vehicles plus my vehicle and my husband's vehicle so I understand parking and what it's like to deal with parking in a in a residential setting um my kids um the three of them that are in college are a sophomore junior and a senior my senior's at Lal he drives he didn't drive until his junior year but he needed his vehicle because he's on the crew team and you have to get to practice he doesn't work he needs to work but he rose crew parking in the city is complicated they have on-site parking available and he parks on the street I'm looking forward to the end of May when the car comes home and I don't have to worry about what's happening to his vehicle where he's parking and and who he's walking by to get back to his house my junior as is in New Brunswick at rufford University he lives off campus because he has a house year round up there but it's a student housing that he lives in and he has to drive because he works fortunately he works but he also has activities that relate to his education and he has to be available to transp himself to different areas throughout North Jersey in order to fulfill his education requirements my daughter is a sophomore in South Carolina University of South Carolina freshmen get housing on campus no one else does she wanted to live in a house I made her live in an apartment complex because I didn't want my daughter's car being parked on the street not knowing where she was walking to get home late at night maybe I'm a little biased but the boys I felt a little bit better with my daughter we had strict requirements what we have here are people living in this home and if they can't provide the place for them to park on their property they're going to provide they're going to park further away they're going to walk further to keep their vehicle there for overnight parking they're going to use the permit process to take turns who gets to park closer with the overnight parking and then others are going to park further away that does two things it creates an issue for parking in other residential areas that may not have an issue because they're parking further away where they're allowed to park without permit parking requirements and walking three four blocks back or they're going to have um people moving the cars around in order to make sure that they're in the street the ones that are in the street are allowed in the street the ones that aren't are not and so there's already this situation on this property where the cars are back to back whether it's the driveway width that were permitted the expanded driveway width which we're requesting or the expanded driveway depth which would allow for up to 15 vehicles um it's going to be a tight fit on this property but it provides a better zoning alternative to them parking elsewhere and trying to find ways to be able to have their vehicles they have to coordinate they have to learn to be adults they have to create a schedule so that whoever's parked in first isn't the one who has to leave first in the morning they're managing that in with this with the uh three cars that they have deep now so they're We Believe they'll be able to manage it and create a schedule and make it work for them to create a better alternative um and a more ideal situation for this property now there are other homes throughout um glass borrow that have stacked parking some of them are done really well some of them are done haphazard your ordinances were designed and created specifically to make sure you don't have that haphazard you're not allowed to pull up and park on the grass uh Mr insana has uh wants to make sure that split rail fence is up so that not going to pull around each other on the grass that will keep it contained it would require them to make that schedule and ensure who's parking where and how to get in and out of that that area um Mr insana has taken the um has done a very nice job in terms of the Landscaping he didn't just do conc uh asphalt he put sidewalks on both sides just to have it a better curb appeal so that it looks nicer where some of these you have stone on the side um or you just have the full asphalt with or some other alternative here it's at least designed in a way that's attractive so that it can be kept nice looking because not you don't have cars there every day all the time filled with every single space they're out and about so when no one's home it looks like a nice driveby um under the municipal L use law we have to demonstrate what the positive criteria are in this situation and what the benefits are when you have the C2 variances there's a case called C there has to be a benefit to the community that is war is found from this from the variants that we're requesting it can't just be to the property owner yes there's a benefit to the property owner because the residents need a place to park but there's also a benefit to the community because it provides clean organized parking on site and it takes away the impact of parking elsewhere in the community in this instance there are two purposes of zoning that I believe are Advanced and that includes purpose a which is to encourage Municipal action to guide the appropriate use or development of all lands in the state in a manner which will promote the public health safety morals and general welfare and here um I believe providing for appropriate on-site parking although it exceeds what's allowed in your ordinance provides a better zoning alternative promoting that public health and safety and general welfare so that people are able to be proximate to their home that the team the college students are not walking three or four blocks in order to have a place to park their car overnight um and we're not taking away the overnight on street parking from other people that might need it in terms of that special permit that you're allowed to have on occasion additionally I believe the purpose of zoning purpose M to encourage coordination of the various public and private procedures and activities shaping Land Development with a view of lessening the cost of such development and to the more efficient use of land now in this instance allowing for this drive way to extend into that sidey yard that's not a side yard that's going to be utilized it's not an open space where someone's going to sit outside they're going to use their backyard they use the backyard currently so this is dead space um there's currently a fence there we would move the fence back and we'll be able to provide on-site parking with the more efficient use of land our Engineers here we want to make sure that the drainage concerns are accommodated because if we're adding more pavement you want to make sure that you're not creating a a drainage problem and to the degree the board has any questions and we can address uh through Mr Simon's testimony we're able to accommodate any storm water impacts so in my opinion the benefits that are afforded this application in order to remedy a situation that exist and is not uncommon and it's a difficult one because some people do it well and some people do it halfhazard Mr enano wants to do it correct and he wants to do it right um in terms of your second prong for the municipal anus La standards for a c variance I also have to demonstrate and you have to find that if you grant this variance it doesn't cause a substantial impairment of your zoning ordinance or your master plan and it doesn't cause a substantial detriment to the public good so we've talked about the clear understanding and controls in your ordinance about providing for structured parking and not halfhazard parking there your ordinance is very specific in what is required and just to and I know you're familiar with it but I just want to go through um parking is permitted in a driveway and garage only can't park in anywhere else on the property no parking is permitted to extend into the RightWay or block a sidewalk you have to make sure you have enough dep depth to the driveway so that you're not interfering with the sidewalk and blocking that area no parking or driveway access is permitted on grass areas when I had my first house my neighbor would Park in her front yard it drove me batty um very nice I loved her but I hated the parking on the grass and in the driveway so that's something we we are also addressing which is an ordinance requirement but is being done in a manner so that it looks more like a driveway with the walkways on either sides and that the parking spaces are appropriately sized so you've taken many measures to ensure that when you do have a driveway that is 1,000 square ft which is your limitation that it's designed and that works for properties where you don't have as many people residing there but here we have more people living here we have an oversized lot and we have the ability to create an A solution that doesn't negatively impact the intent of your zoning ordinance and master plan nor does it negatively uh impact the public good because by putting the parking spaces on the property delineating them with the fence you have the sidewalk down each side you have the asphalt in the middle it's a very nice curb appeal it looks nice um as nice as it can when you have that many vehicles but it looks nice it's not um a detractor to the area we have some pictures and I just want to show you a few pictures because I think that helps to understand and in case you didn't get to see the property to understand what um is out there and how the the property looks you don't want to use all of them no you don't so I will um just pass it down yes well I I want to oh you st them hold the phone St um so Mr Anana took these pictures and if you need him to explain them instead of me we can do that but I think this would be a little bit more efficient so the first picture is a picture of the property as it exists with the existing driveway showing um the car stacked in the front and the sidewalk on either side the second picture is a similar so on the back of that you you you go to write A1 and then as you go sequentially you're going to write on the back A1 A2 A3 they'll be your exhibits they'll be incorporated here in and you'll be publishing the explanation right on the record so that's that's great and then when you're com you're done presumably you've got a copy you'll hand those up to us correct and then that'll be part of the file okay no go ahead don't no so the second picture is all the same excuse me for a second can you pass some down I mean that's kind of while I'm going through them that's got another set just pass those around just hand them up at the one of the ends I mean I don't wear glasses but my colleagues look like they do so I can see it they may not be able see okay so that first picture is the property as it exists on a nice sunny day the second picture is um the same property but it shows you uh the other side of the driveway which is where the sidewalk is right along the property line at that reduced setback uh which requires the variance there is no split rail there yet but there will be if you approve this that's A2 A3 is a picture of the house across you're standing in this you're standing in the driveway of the house across the street to the left is um the subject property and then the Rancher which is right across the street is the house next door so you can see that there's a similar driveway across the street and that um the area does have cars parked it's not this isn't the only house that has an issue with parking so how many cars do they park across the street I'm going to have Mr insana ask that because he is uh Mr in s do you know how many cars park across the street from are we speaking about the Rancher house yes yes um I believe five or six cars parked there okay there are four in the picture and there three wide okay thank you yeah so the balance of these photos in in this array the rest of them and I'll mark them are pictures of other properties throughout glass burrow that have the Stacked parking situation some done well some done and grandfathered the way they are um just to show that this is not an inconsistent development pattern in the community and we want to make sure that if we are able to do it that we do it in a way that is appropriate and in some instances better so that would be a four five six 7 8 9 10 and 11 and if we want to know which one is which address I'd have to have Mr insana come up and testify to that I mean they'll speak for themselves you're just representing that they were all taken literally within a couple of city blocks of the site I presume some within a couple of blocks and some on the other side of Campus so they're they're shows the both areas of the Town yeah I'm just writing the a numbers on the back excuse me Mr insan I'm looking at a fence here is that the type of fence you're going to put up the split rail which uh which well I I don't have a number on it it's the fourth the fifth one here this one is that the type you're going to put that split rail that would okay okay thank you very nice thank you and I have more pictures of other passes I don't know that we need to show all of those to you I think that you have might be enough but if you're curious I have more that are more reflective of the other areas near this property um and all the pictures are all rent he didn't come to my house CU all my kids home is the house adjacent to your property is that a student house or just a res re regular residential family student housing the Rancher on the on the right looking at your house at the right hand side yeah yeah there's only three houses on that entire 400 block that are not uh student houses and they're in from the corner the first three houses in from the corner off of Harvard Road so may I inquire M Mory a11 that's looks like kind of a muddy uh muddy Tire and so that's to demonstrate that without the fence they sometimes might go off of the driveway so that's why we want to provide the fence to ensure that that doesn't happen because Mr inana wants his properties to look nice um he doesn't want to have that kind of situation what insurance is there that all cars are always maintained in working order and not there there was one that had a cover on it um that that does become a problem in any area where you can wind up with with junk so it might be something we can write into the lease that the cars have to be of of operation be operational you mean a car that's just sitting there okay I did not understand um I can I can incorporate currently I don't believe I have that in my in my lease I have never had that problem normally uh the Cs however licensed registered insured and operable yes very good a sence I can add that to the lease under the rules along with all the other rules there's plenty of them yes so there were reports issued by your professionals um and a lot of what's in there I believe I tried to address in terms of what the variances were and why I believe the variances are approvable under the municipal L use law some of those items you might need some testimony from Mr Simons and I'm sure they'll go through them and and we can answer any questions um I just want to summarize and saying that um this is the best alternative to a problem it keeps the kids off the street in other areas um it's nice not having vehicles parked on the street but if you don't have on street parking it also creates an a parking problem in general but not having on street parking is also safer because you don't have people walking out in between the cars and you have you know the you don't want to have delivery trucks going down the streets someone coming out between the cars having them all on site and having that no parking restriction allows for that cleaner feel and cleaner look and if you didn't have parking permits required you'd have people fighting for parking spaces they wouldn't need to put nice driveways on their property that might require variances but provide a better zoning alternative so in my professional opinion I believe that there are benefits that are not just to the applicant but to the community in providing for this um Extended parking and that any of the imps that are associated with it can be mitigated in terms of uh the storm water design and we'll have that conversation as we get into the professional reports and as you can see um with the way that this is done it's not just the asphalt to Asphalt with the sidewalk on either side kind of gives it a dressier feel um yes the vehicles will end up parking in part when they're there on the sidewalk when it's full capacity but during the day if they're not there at least it has a nicer appe appeal and just to make one clarification there are six parking spaces on utilizing the black not right now that we widen it and extend it it would be widen to accommodate 31 thank you that so that's all that I have on my end any questions of the board no this pres time I have to say one thing I'd have to comment a compliment uh just looking at the property itself you you run a tight ship I could see that looks very very nice thank you very much I uh because I grew up here uh and I know that it is making an impact in the area there that's the same neighborhood I grew up in I have spent uh a lot of money to beautify the properties including sprinkler systems Landscaping sod uh the driveway defensing all of that um because I want the the neighborhood to look nice properties actually on that street and I I've go on the extra mile and spend a lot of just just on the landscape tens of thousands of dollars on each actually I do have one there was a comment in the professional reports that sidewalk is required and Street trees are required this was approved through a minor subdivision um in 22 which did wave the sidewalk and the street trees um for this area so I'm not well that was then this is now I I'm just right there was a reason for it at that point in time um there is no sidewalk on this side of the street and the board found that two years ago it wasn't necessary to add that here so all right Mr casone okay Mr chairman if you'd like to go to me um I can just summarize my letter somewh quickly um and and what's really going to come out to be a Counterpoint to some of some of the the testimony um everything in my letter was referenc in the testimony that we heard but in my letter I did I did really endorse the some some of the variance request namely um the set the the driveway setback from the sidey yard and the lack of a new type of Drive VI and let me just talk about those two separately very quickly um the driveway setback from a from a from a property line really don't really a dead space it's it's kind of a almost a construction tolerance buffer so that the work like a fence or any maintenance um through that driveway doesn't encroach onto the neighboring property this is only one foot off the property so it's very tight to the to the adjacent property which would be under control by a different entity in terms of the drive bils while I realize this is a a driveway I wrote my letter in the context of the ordinance which you know defines how a formal parking lot would look and that was really just to create a contrast and just to kind of bring to light the fact that they are proposing to park up to 15 cars here and you we have heard it's going to probably be difficult to the the the tenants will be on their own to manage those 15 cars three wide five deep and um it'll be you know it would be up to them to manage it and I don't know how that really gets monitored and enforced on on a regular basis and I would just end with um um it's a residential Zone but it's a it's a large it's a not a typical residential driveway is what it comes down to in what is you know some some of the testimony is that this is an approved residential dwelling but it's not a typical residential and those are some of the reasons that I would point out that I I didn't didn't recommend the entire package of Varan I didn't hear that last project George I just said uh it's Steve um I just that that that's in summary the reason I didn't endorse the entire package of variances that were requested by by the thank and I named it too in some of my reasons okay Mr Cohen yes thank you Mr chairman um referring to the review letter dated March 12th 2024 um we've heard the applicants planner Tiffany morresy who I have a great deal of respect for give testimony with regarding a C2 both variant and referring to the purposes of zoning um with respect to the parking lot um I don't actually agree with all of the uh testimony that was given by Miss Mor um I think that selecting purposes A and M it it feels like a stretch I guess um and I'd also like to just speak to both of those briefly um with respect to purpose a to encourage Municipal action to guide the appropriate use of development of all lands in the state in a manner which will provide the public promote the public health safety morals and general welfare um the parking in the in the Glassboro ordinance and also in the residential site Improvement standards talk about providing Ingress and egress to all parking spaces to ensure ease of Mobility ample clearance and safety of vehicles and pedestrians so I take issue there just referring back to the the local ordinance and the residential Improvement standards I don't see the connection um in promoting that by having a stack driveway of the type that's shown on the site PL um also I'd like to mention that and she didn't talk about purpose eye but I'd like to um just mention briefly a couple of purposes from the municipal Landes law that I think would be contravene potentially one would be purpose B to secure safety from fire flood panic and other natural and man-made disasters I don't takes too much imagination if there were for example uh a need to evacuate for in front of a hurricane or something like that that could become problematic I think it could slow down the process of evacuation when we talk about fire flood panic and other natural and manmade disasters if if that parking lot were congested enough that the residents weren't able to um evacuate timely uh purpose C to provide adequate light and open will this will um encroach on the open space provided on this lot the proposed driveway and a parking area which actually um constitute a tripling of what's allowed in the code um to provide the parking area that they're talking about so I I see that as a a detriment and um purpose I to promote a bable visual environment through creative development spefic design and Arrangements a single family neighborhood doesn't typically have up to 15 cars parked around or near the the house it becomes what I think would be a visual impact I don't see that the applicants are proposing any additional landscaping or anything that might offset that so I uh and I'm not sure how purpose am applies by Lessing the cost some think they're increasing the cost because they then have to provide an elaborate sort of storm water um for an increased storm water management system to handle the extra impervious area so uh I would disagree with the analysis under the C2 variants I think could also be harmful to the Zone plan and master plan um and that would be my testimony I do have a couple of would like to get testimony from the applicant about whether um the affordable housing requirements would be met um otherwise I have no other testimony at this time well we we could we could answer that because the applicant would meet any and all COA and or growth share obligations because it's required is required so that's beyond the board's jurisdiction but Mr chair may I inquire of our engineer for just one second sure so so Mr kman you went through and and and um we heard a little bit from uh Miss Mory about runoff and then Mr Cohen just brought that up again um when you were giving your report what's with the storm order what do you think about that well there is a uh a small storage system underground storage system in the rear of the yard that was put in as part of the development of the house um I believe that the applicant would uh at least his engineer valate the capacity capacity to see if it could accommodate the increase run off from the expanded driveway if it was approved and perhaps what's there could could contain or perhaps it would need to be expanded so have those calculations already been done Mr Simons got them to you had a conversation with you something else or nothing else I don't believe I don't believe there's been a verification okay well we're in luck chairman we have Mr s uh thank you Mr chairman members of the board uh we did provide some storm War calculations on the plan uh the stormw system originally constructed was constructed a little bit larger than what was approved so there was some additional storage capacity there is a a shortage at the calculations so the existing stormw system would have to be expanded or an additional system or other type of means provided for the storm War to run off but the system could be expanded run on site yeah I don't want to paraphrase so that's why I'm going to ask you if I'm if I'm understanding things you're saying you've done preliminary calculations and you haven't really finalized calculations yet because they haven't been shared with Mr kasman is that in essence and if relief was granted you'd have to do that that's correct you're you're pretty much confident that you need an expansion of the existing system yes there you go that's what get we can accommodate that onsite and provide that area on site on proper no that's implicit in your testimony sure okay thank you you any questions of the board one question I was just thinking uh 12 bedroom but yet you have 16 people uh 16 uh attendant that there can you kind of address that or trying to understand that so that's basically how the house was designed four of the bedrooms are 13 and a half by 14 with walk-in closet so in the event uh that they chose to double up in those rooms uh it would accommodate the 16 people uh there are also five and a half baths in in the property and laid out with the toilets laid out separately the um the vanity laid out in a common area and the showers separate as well so there could be three different things going on at the same time it's very functional what need you build this house uh it was completed in September of 23 and at the time was 12 12 rooms correct 12 bedrooms yes and you only had five parking spots why didn't you come before us before to expand the parking so I did not take into consideration or I was unaware that there was an ordinance on the books that allow them to call their phone their uh license plates in or they can even actually go online and they can do it up to six times a month I was completely unaware of that normally all of my other properties I always made sure always made sure that there was sufficient parking now I was not the first person to build these larger properties originally when these larger properties were built they were built without the parking and and some of them still don't have the parking and I thought that was crazy but then it was kind of functional uh so then I moved forward I did not anticipate this situation because I clearly have it stated in my lease that parking may be limited will'll be up to the tenant decide who will will not have a vehicle at the property uh was unaware of this ordinance where they can phone in their cars so now what happens is instead of them leaving their cars home they bring them to the to the house and they they kind of rotate them on the street so there's constantly uh cars that are in the street and I myself don't like it I'm sure the other three people in the block don't like it that are residents um and because of that I mean I can just be the way that they are I'm I'm willing to to spend the money and to do it properly to get these cars off the street because there's constantly cars on the street uh well have you received complaints have people been on your back no okay no no no they have not they have not I just don't like to have these vehicles on the street all the time when it can be accommodated and as far as the driveway goes uh quite a few of the pictures that uh you have the parking in front of the house and I know that that is something that the uh the bur of glb is uh is not something that they like having the parking in front of the properties I don't want to see a parking lot in front of the house because we have the sufficient lot size a 75 foot building lot uh this parking is going to be the same as a regular house that the parking would go down one side or the other will be contained on one side of the house and not in front of the house excuse me sir do you get any complaints from the police titing and so forth I get complaints from the kids not not the police no no uh that the kids uh they get ticketed because sometimes they may forget to phone in their cars but right I mean if they have the parking I I could rate that in the leash too that they need to utilize the parking if there's a there's 15 people that live there then the 15 spots need to be utilized and there shouldn't be anybody except for guests that come to the house so just a quick followup you you mentioned you didn't anticipate it when you built the house for 16 people in Five original parking spaces six six and you said you didn't what did you think like you were just kind of you thought maybe less than 50% of the people that occupi the house would have a car when the earlier testimony said every idea was for know higher level upper classman that needed cars all the time again I was not the first one to build these properties and I thought it crazy that it was that these properties were built without sufficient parking uh and the areas that they were built uh they didn't even allow any paring on the streets on Carpenter Street on Main Street uh and it worked so that's why I put it in my lease specifically that parking is limited and it's up to them to decide and again I I did not anticipate uh this happening because I was unaware of the ordinance that they can actually phone in their car six times and normally they they do that if they have guest over and there is no parking because again all of my other properties I've never bought a property unless it has bar uh and and you know this is is what happened and if there just constantly cars on the street and again I don't have to do anything I want to get these cars off the street and I want to do it right and I want it you know I want the curb appeal uh to be there because the house is brand new along with two other ones that are there that are brand new how many current um residents have a car now all of them I I am not sure if all of them have a vehicle uh but there are the parking lot is normally full with six cars and there's normally four or five cars are always in and out so I I I'm not there first thing in the morning when when they uh if they Park overnight uh but I would imagine 12 at least and I would imagine that that's also due to the situation that there is no parking GL does not have a a parking uh alternative you wherever your rent is on that Park just isn't any any other questions on the board just so I can get just get a good understanding so you're talking about expanding the present driveway removing the sidewalk on the right hand side and going all the way back to the back of the house and then it's almost like a wraparound driveway am I understanding that no sir no R around driveway um if if I can bring this so basically okay so it's not going in the back correct okay no yeah it's going to the back of the so if this were the house it would the driveway would stop here and the excuse me the split rail fence would go in front of that so they can't drive forward okay and drive around the back of the orc although there's a fence uh and on the side to keep them contained the back is where they've got the stor m manag yeah yes I was just looking here at the map I was a presented it looked as though that it was actually a wraparound so and then the drive as it goes back the driveway would would it would be three wide as opposed to and I would like to keep uh the if I was able to do the sidewalk as opposed excuse me as opposed to just the black top uh to border it to make it look nicer I I'm you know I'm willing to do that if I if I get approved any other questions now I see you have uh 15 on here now as one of the professionals stated about the safety concern would it be you know behoove you to try to limit that down to maybe say 12 or 13 to keep open like a type of fire lane in case there was you know one of the cars you know somehow catches fire or there's a breakdown or anything like that uh just from a safe concern is 15 like the dead number for you or is there any type of leeway or giveway because you say you have 16 or 14 residents I'm sorry it doesn't necessarily there's 16 residents okay and it doesn't necessarily mean that there's always going to be 16 people there this particular group chose to have 16 people because it will comfortably accommodate okay uh there there's a it doesn't it doesn't exactly have to be well of the 16 residents presently how many have cars I would say about a dozen have cars and and I also again think that that is due situation okay well that's Mr burner's point so that's your answer 16 people now okay thank you Mr chairman might I add one more thing if no questions um there there has been some history with this property and I just correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that that the original plot plan was approved to driveway that was compliant it was about 960 sare ft in 20 F5 and over the course of constructions decision was made um honestly just to expand a little bit put some more Concrete in to let the um to allow more cars to park so essentially it it the it the driveway got put into a non-conforming condition I guess as part of part of it because it is 27 ft wide now and over is that is that correct it was original subdivision had a comp correct that is correct when that happened that I I mean it falls on my part I'd like to blame it all on the Builder uh but it the the lot across the street has the same formation and the lot the lot across the street or the house across the street is 100 foot wide lot uh apparently they had changed the ordinance uh it's my understanding they uh allowed you to have a walkway on the sides of the driveway so when the build and that's what I did across the street so when the Builder uh said do you want the same thing across the street I said yes so when I went there I had called uh the engineers to unearth again the markers for the property because the landscapers were coming and when I came there and I saw where the property marker was that was it was 4 in off of the off of the prop was unaware of that or that would not happened I don't know if it's the Builder that I pay or my fault but your fately you're the owner very good just the way it is so so having said that Mr C when you call that out to what end to suggest Mr insign had said he doesn't have to actually do anything like he doesn't have to expand the property to he doesn't have to expand the driveway to to um expand the parking he's trying to do that to help his tenants but I do I would object a little bit to so you're kind of saying at a minimum he's got to clean up what he's got right now well right if the board were not to approve this the driveway would still be a nonconforming Jud right any other questions no questions do I have a motion to open to the public so moved second all in favor iOS so B is there anybody from the public that would like to speak about this agenda item speak now move we close the second all in favor I close so be it all right what's the pleasure of the board I personally think that uh from what I see around town I think this he put a first class uh home up uh everything I see is first class and I just I just can't see how we couldn't Grant a yes to this is that a motion do you want to make a motion is that a motion yes that's a motion I'm sorry all right so you're making a motion motion to Grant the relief as requested um together with everything that's been adduced during a hearing of the matter and that'll be incorporated into the resolution I believe the Vice Chairman's County are we including the um water management oh definitely absitively that's okay that's their obligation to get those calculations tightened up done and published to Mr Caso for is we have first and second we have roll call Missy although Miss uh Mor's testimony was very very persuasive I have to go with our professionals who are are not in favor of this application um they're not meeting the various um reasons for zoning and so my vote's no Mr Lopez I also vote no 15 cars in any residential area is excessive to me five stacked by three Mr perner I also have to vote no uh my concern is still the safety of the community with 15 cars and no form of belief to get them out if anything were to happen does POS a threat to the town Mr Smith four I'm sorry I miss what you said four did you want to give a reason why you're vo for uh because I think uh it's contenent that this gentleman worked with our his engineer to get theu to our professionals whatever needs to be done Mr Mr Harvey four I I agree just as well if they can comply with the storm storm water management that's that's that's paramont for me Mr santor yes I I think like I said earlier I I think from the question I asked them are the police coming there are they harassing are they writing tickets and if I was a homeowner on a block and he wants to do everything he wants to do to comply with us I can't see why we can't Grant a yes as far as what this gentleman said about if there's a hurricane well I tell you the truth I won't be jumping in my car I'll be looking for cover so as far as I think what you're my own opinion I think what you're doing is is nice for the neighborhood the three people that live there that own their homes if I was living there I admire you for it so I say yes to it not to have a big speech but I say yes Miss camea uh I'm going to say yes to it also um I've lived in my house since I was a little kid like four okay and then bought it from my my mother and I'm still there um recent the last couple years we've had a lot of college students on our block uh we our block sort of took a a shorter period of time we had um issues with all the cars being out on the street and um uh we finally got everybody trained you know if you if you park your car on the street and you don't have a thing somebody's going to report you and we have no problem on our street anymore I mean there's always somebody that you know parked but it's not thousands of people nobody's blocked my driveway in like maybe two years now I mean I used to have to like P and and have it threatened to be I think your so yes I made my point so you made it a horse race the uh Mr Moon I'm not in favor of it you we have you just called I called everybody the Alternatives don't get called no no if you have seven you just called the seven oh okay who was your alternate it's first alternate Miss Le Mr Lopez Mr who Mr Lopez so that's two notes he count so now who do we have that is that so now you're down to six you need one more you just you're just who's the first alternate Miss laf is okay the second alternate wait I'm sorry Mr Lopez Mr Lopez is the first alternate is the second okay so one of them's back it turns out the first Alternate which we now established is Mr Lopez correct still a horse race still the yes there you go all right there you go 43 thank you very much thank feel AF freid to drive by it'll be very nice good night good night thank you again take care good night good night next up ZB 23-14 Anna treski and Jose defus Kentucky Avenue block 194 lap 56 an Zone bulk variant to allow to build single family drawing on the undersiz a lot um Mr Lopez unfortunately needs to step down from this because his sister lives next I'm take it away sir good evening everyone um as you recall if you recall a few months ago this was adjourned so to apply with the statute would contact any to see if they could purchase any adjoining Lots well I have a letter on that right so here you go not not sell wait just relax whatever you're doing finish it go back to the podium then address the board and when you do that I'm going to tell the board what you handed me so everybody's on the same page okay so thank you Mr Z it's good to see you of course um Mr Z just handed me a letter uh on burrow of glass burrow uh letterhead dated March 13 2023 so you think they made a mistake did you reive this in 2023 you had to no4 the dates wrong it was all right so then we're going to agree that they meant to say March 13 2024 so that corre good um this is regarding an offer to purchase bar owned property Kentucky Avenue block 194 Lots 54 and 55 now is that the lot on either side of the subject lot I believe there's two one side it's 211 side 211 side okay so then this goes on and is addressed to your client M trosi and please be advised the finance committee as well as the governing body reviewed your quote unquote offer to purchase land its regular meeting Tuesday March 12th 20 uh 2024 governing body voted not to approve any sale of the above reference land you requested due to a moratorium of sale being placed on all properties in this area in close you'll find your check um for brand which is submitted on February 1 2024 so that's signed by the municipal clerk miss cosbro Karen cosbro now that addresses one side you got a letter for the other side what's cooking on the other side now as you recall this slot is undersized a lot of varas it's two 25 foot lots that were combined and the variance that were so you got to listen to what I just asked you and you got to answer it okay because if you don't okay then you really can't go forward go ahead well I'm sorry you talked about contiguous Lots on one side of the subject line and I said how about that's why I inquired there's no other lots available on the other side well it's good that you say that okay but you have the obligation I'm sorry I didn't make it clear we want to have to no no to to and it's more than your representation listen you're an officer of the Court whatever you tell me I take it as gospel because that's the way it works because only as good as your word we we understand that we get that but we're in a hearing you know a quaz Judicial kind of thing where we need some sort of you know documentary support or testimony from the person who owns a lot next door or something like that other than that how do we how do we how do we support the record and by the way I'm just going to give you a teaser you got somebody who's going to object I know that so how do you you you you're not going to get the Jump Street unless you got that other piece so before you go forward because right now you're not going to meet your burden you're talking about the other lot yeah um swear we're going to swear in but there's nothing she's going to be able to tell us that unless she says oh I've been sitting on a letter and I just didn't give it to Mr Z no my understanding is the other Lots there are properties on all the Adent Lots I correct are one other L which is a combin l as well as they're all owned by someone there is a house on a double lot three homes on and I appreciate that but for evidentiary purposes it's frankly neither here nor there I would expect when I send out these letters quite often um someone to send back a letter and it may say no no a thousand times no but I still send out that letter even though I know I'm going to get rebuffed why it's my burden so I had kind of I think I thought that got kind of made I thought we published that before at a prior my understanding was that I wasn't aware of the two vacant Lots we found out we made the application to the township well listen here we are and you know you you youve you've profer this we'll accept this but you can't go forward because this board would be constrained to just deny your application because you haven't met your burden to to do that your due diligence so you can make a request listen sometimes life intervenes and you you get a curve ball this we should not be having this conversation AG but it happens I agree it happens I agree so so I've got my obligation to the board and you could go through this and you know we'll hear some objec and testimony well I don't even know what it is they may have some basis for it who knows but it's neither here or there because even if they weren't here I'd still be stuck with directing the board to say he hasn't met his burden about the the other contiguous property so now this has been adjourned a few times um so re noticing yeah yeah so you're going to have to you know so I quite frankly know how to comply other than writing to the neighbor and that's exactly what you do and I did that just the other day on three applications I will be honest with you I've never heard that in 36 years but that's okay I haven't heard everything so I know I don't know everything but I've never heard that before I'm not here to make your life difficult I'm here to represent the board's interest and part of that is to direct my board to maybe not do certain things and in this case to not Grant relief if we haven't met are or or burden and yes I send that letter out certified and regular and then sometimes I get a response no sometimes it just goes into The Ether never gets pick up certified never get but I've got a copy that it was mailed I got the proof of mailing my white proof of mailing and I just say the regular mail was not returned certified never picked up here we are and then the board would say all right you did your due diligence listen it's what we do for better for thank you so before you roll um Mr chairman what do we want to for Mr Z Reen notice what are we doing um presumably he's going to write that letter and I guess come back but because it's been adjourned a couple times reoti all right so Mr Z we're goingon to have you Reen Notice come back write that letter and um and we'll see you in the future going to hang on to this this this piece is already done well I see no reason not to okay we just make an announcement that may I make an announce sure go ahead listen I'm kind of a loud talker so you may well have heard that the um uh application ZB 23-14 I'll call it trasi and defus is being adjourned there will be there will be new notice to those within 200 ft and if you're heard there was a little bit of an issue with contiguous Property Owners so you'll be Reen noticed and maybe we'll see everybody on another day yep thank you Mr all right Workshop committee D okay um they have the new format and there were two sessions and I was there representing the zoning board um at this time and I'm trying to remember what I was doing she has it thank you it was in the back Nara Enterprises two right so yeah that gr can't make a binding decision all we can do is discuss what they need to do to fix things up and you no okay and the Shabbat at Rowan synagog correct that will be coming yes they're want to be on MC Drive anything else that's good nothing about raising first the first one was for that was that involved us the first one at 9:00 the second one they kindly asked me to leave because oh okay and I was thrilled with it you know what was the second one um this one had to do with a completeness review but we don't this is zoning and and this is just planning oh okay so when you get to just planning little I don't know all right they should let you Mr you have a report for us well as a matter of fact Mr chair members thank you um we have a single resolution and we'll uh get to to wrapping this up resolution R 24-10 and you may well uh remember this was a South Jersey Investments so maybe an overly ambitious application uh the board ultimately beened for your consideration Mr chair we have a motion motion to CH second motion for the resolution resolution yeah this is after we know you in a rush man call please take it Mr Lopez yes Mr perner yes Mr Smith yes Mr Harvey for and Mr mun for we have any old business nothing new anybody coming up I saw they did the parking lot at um at um Lio looks pretty good good are they going to take care are they going to take care of the middle part too eventually yeah I think it's all going to get cleaned up that's usually pole City yeah that's a m they've already fixed nothing on raising I haven't seen that's all planning board matters U there's been nothing on Chick-fil-A recently which is on so I Mr cabon I did get and Mr Cow I did get the application for Chick-fil-A that's currently kind of doing a courtesy review but I will not release it until all the approvals have been met from both of you so if you could just keep your ears and eyes open to let me know when I can always shoot you an email also to make sure U before I do release it that everything's been met by them that would be great but but the plans are in house to be reviewed okay thank you you're welcome um and for new business I'm sorry if I'm going to jump ahead everybody might have gotten an EMA from the the clerk asking for you to go in to do your financial disclosure the deadline is April 30th so make sure that you do that if you did not get an email from the clerk you can contact Kathy mclear at the clerk's office and to make sure you get your financial disclosure go in to we can do it there you can also go into the clerk and I'm sure they'll sign you up on a computer and help you do it there also I mean I've done it for a lot of years but I've always done it always done it not right online don't sign up online but April 30 is the deadline to make sure everybody gets that done should be done all right so our next meeting is May 16th 2024 we have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn oh I'm sorry no wa before anybody second Mr Pont Mr Pont I'm sorry sir public com public comment anybody from the public have anything they' like to say please step forward Clark Pon zoning officer for the bur of Glassboro I just wanted to officially clarify some confusion over the workshop meeting and how it operates on the second Tuesday of the month at 9:00 a we have our Workshop meeting where representative from the zoning board from the planning board our professionals and myself planning board coordinator meet to review any applications to the workshop committee following that meeting when that meeting adjourns Mr Alice we constitute another meeting oh which is the completeness Review Committee which is our two professionals myself and the planning board coordinator to act as a secretary where we take any application to either board planning or Zoning Board of adjustment and check it to make sure that it meets the requirement to be deemed complete so that the board can hear it and if it doesn't then the engineers office writes the applicant a letter stating exactly what is needed prior to a being scheduled so that we try and avoid applications being submitted then how did this two weeks prior to how did this get submitt i' be happy to discuss that with you after the meeting don't think you want me to say that on the record no so if there are any questions about that and how that meeting works you feel free to reach out to myself or the planning board coordinator it was thank you motion to insurance you have a second second favor close