##VIDEO ID:t-ZieRAzqqY## can you hear me [Music] [Music] please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which stand one nation under God indivisible liy and justice for all good evening this regular meeting of the township council is being held in accordance with the schedule of the meetings of the township Council established and adopted by the township Council which scheduled desate the time and day and place in this meeting adequate public notice of this meeting has been provided pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings Act we're using electronic amplifying recording device in order to obtain a clear and audible record request all those wishes please be recognized and state your name and address directly to the microphone the recording device will be soly utilized by a Township clerk's office for the preparation MST and shall be the official record of the township Council meetings Mrs bosford Miss bosford can you read the uh I'm sorry roll call please I'm sorry M here Mrs alright Troxel here Mrs Grace love here Mr Nash here Mrs Walters Mrs witer she is ill Mr Marcado present Mr car here Mr here deputy chief mini here Mr Migel Here We Now open up the first public portion this is for agenda items only anyone addressing Council may speak one time once all those wishing to address Council have had their turns they may address Council second time only if it ask what was said earlier not repeating earlier statements each speaker's in of three minutes and there'll be a total of 15 minutes for the first public portion Miss Hendry good evening Dena Hendry Summerdale good evening um the even that you had read um to open up the meeting how the residents have adequate public notice for this meeting it's kind of not true being that the agenda was updated today on 129 the full agenda that was posted on 125 didn't have everything that today's agenda has so I had noticed this morning Al Mr Mana brought it to my attention uh I approved the agendas on Thursday uh afternoon and they're posted the ordinance was in the background information um it was put on uh the website that evening uh it was brought to my attention that it was not listed on the front page of the agenda so I contacted the clerk's office and they posted that on there miss bosford the background stuff was that that was on the full um posting on the website back from Thursday evening correct yes so the the three ordinances were posted they just weren't on the first agenda so all that information was there it was not listed we amended it and put it on the front but the background information was there so if someone goes through the 23 Pages they could see that but typically it's always at the front of the page correct correct so that it was not listed there but uh the ordinance was listed and we was posted okay um as you said you you look through the agenda on Thursdays correct what safeguards because it's this is not the first time that like a hiccup has happened so what safeguards were in place from the previous time to ensure that we're not waiting until Monday to address so what the clerk has done Miss power she has uh when it's been posted she's taking screenshots and it's posted there underneath when it has made it to its website because she sends that to updates uh that evening Thursday afternoon and then she'll put the day that it's posted underneath it so that's one of the safe cards that we put in place all of council they review it it was brought to my attention um and we had it updated okay so on Thursday it gets posted does anybody like look at it and make sure that everything is in order how it's supposed to be how how we're kind of like trained that it should be the clerk okay so then therefore the clerk failed at doing what they were supposed to be doing no it's it was an oversight on her part but how many oversights need to happen I mean for but but the the ordinance was there the ordinance was listed there so people have an opportunity to review that you just don't look at the first page or two there's background information so that we you know that part was there I'm open to suggestions of any safeguards you want to suggest to council okay thank you thank you is there anyone else Miss smithman hi good Council my name is shauny smithman I live in the SDK m Gardens apartment complex on milbrook Court Apartment 341 uh the agenda item r241 12-3 a0 uh refunding of taxes yes um who who is receiving the refund of the taxes there's a list of names there like specific names specific people yes there are pages of folks that are on here listed it's on on there as well are there family members entitled to their refund these are over payments so you said family members like who like if one specific person is being given a refund of taxes can you instead pay their niece or their nephew no goes tax well could you instead pay their grandchild you said no you can answer that's fine it's who listed as ta bill that's the only person that can receive the re person can receive the check so you can't tax somebody else for somebody else's tax debt so if somebody owed the taxes you can't charge their their child with that tax debt no it's it's the only record that is on the tax if it Go whoever we send the tax bill to whoever's whoever's listed through the assessment office is the owner of that property and who's listed under the property taxes as being the owner of that property that's who receives the tax bill that's who receiv received the delinquent notices that's who would be put in taxes that's who would would request I believe in these Cas these instances these individuals have request because they overpaid to be to be refund and in order for them to be refunded you need a resolution of the governing body otherwise we cannot cut a check and you you can't provide it to a a family member no extended family member an uncle so you can't tax somebody else for somebody else's tax debt and you cannot refund a tax payment for somebody else's overpayment it goes to the person who has registered at back home be taxed and is the owner of record so you can only be taxed if it's your tax debt you cannot tax an uncle or a niece or a child no thank you Miss smithin for your time thank you Mr paor good evening Council Ray paloro from the historic village of Ariel good evening I'm not going to get into the details of how the uh the agenda that's usually printed out has the ordinances first and how this came about it seems to happen on evenings when we have some important or hot button issue that a glitch happens I disagree well you can disagree but we the people know that when we look for it um whether it doesn't appear and to have ordinances that would normally be in the agenda be off the agenda and in the description area is just it it's getting tiresome to to do that uh if I may address um ordinance 2424 um and again talk about a hot button item um so the the chronological order of things that have going on when you guys dissolve the MUA uh you first said that you can do it better you can save money uh coincidentally you never ever answered the question and you never did save money and you have just proven that today where you're not saving money by dissolving the MUA uh that being the MUA ran a very efficient budget I asked Mr ctis maybe he could seek some advice from them because our budget's t every other year and they were man they managed to keep a $6 million emergency fund and that fund was for specifically to take care of the sewage issues now you have taken the I'm sorry you have procured the funds that were there and um and squashed just about half of it never having spent any money on sewer repairs because you've already borrowed $300,000 to fix the the the sewer now you want Barrow another 600,000 you're still sitting on 2.8 million if I'm not mistaken of money that was specifically designed to take care of these things to take care of the sord and you're borrowing again you're sitting there with a lot of cash leaking out of your pocket or at least the administration is right now a lot of cash hanging out of your pocket you're going to swipe our credit card again there's already money there there's no reason to borrow more money to fix the sewer you know it you're constantly proving why you should put the MUA back together again you did this to save money you didn't do it then you said you weren't going to sell it that was a little disingenuous also you said you're gonna put it out for bid to find out what it's worth that's called an appraisal well that didn't go so well Remington and Vernick rated our sewer pretty good that's why maybe New Jersey americ would have thought that that was worth 143 million yet every time you talk about tax increases borrowing or anything to do with spending this body votes unanimously the administration hands it to you and you just say okay don't borrow more money when you have the money sitting that you took again I'm sorry that you procured from the MUA that was for that purpose I'll come back if there's time thank you thank you Mr Paul there is there anyone else would like to speak Miss coin [Music] Denise coin chose Landing good evening I believe the open public meetings act requires you to list the ordinances on the agenda they were not listed on the agenda they should have been listed on the agenda 48 hours in advance for proper public notice they were not so it's not reasonable to expect that the public was aware of these ordinances if they weren't listed on the agenda somebody that goes to the website looks at the agenda cads us through it okay how would they know that those ordinances were in supporting documentation because they go down when they click on it it goes down no back they would have to background information yes absolutely they would have to read they would have to go down there it was an over M cor I'm speaking there was an oversight it was an oversight we tried to correct it there's nothing salacious there's no no conspiracy behind it there's a second reading that takes place where people have ample time to speak on that second hearing and you're speaking on that now we apologize that there was an oversight but there's also an open public meetings act that requires it to be noticed on the agenda and background information Prov hours in advance it was not if it isn't it should be posted yellow on the board to notify people no it's not posted yellow it's posted yellow if it's a walk on it's not a walk on okay but background information is provided it's not posted 48 hours in advance isn't that considered a walk on it wasn't on the agenda it was on the agenda the background information it was not on the front page it was an oversight Mr Carl you're a legal counsel can you provide us some legal advice on this first I'm hearing of that but the comments that are made from the Das as well as the pl are telling me that the uh ordinance was actually contained in the body of what was besides being posted was on the site for everyone to look at and I think that's proper I don't think it's improper and I think Council for introduction at first reading which is not a public hearing just the first reading is appropriate uh regardless of what your comments are what do you mean by besides being posted posted where it's how the procedure that the the clerk's office filed is appropriate from what I'm hearing this is the first time hearing of it but because it was included in the content of everything that was available for the public to read prior to the meeting is appropriate even though it was not on the agenda per the open public meetings actage but the contents were there but it was not on the agenda it was there and this is only first reading not a public hearing on first reading I understand that those comments that I've heard so far should be addressed at at the public hearing is that defined in the public meetings act that it only has to be second hearing that needs to be noticed 48 hours in advance not that's not what I'm saying okay so it should have been on the agenda correct thank you Miss coin for your time is there anyone else like to speak that's not spoken yet Mr pador will be our last [Music] speaker thank you once again Ray pador from Ariel Mr colir uh your response coin was you don't think uh can you make that factual well my my comment is understand this is the first I've heard that this was not look closer to the microphone please first I've heard that that this was not included in the beginning of what on the I guess what you described as the agenda but what I'm hearing though is that the ordinance was properly available to the public for a review so that's what's important what also also goes to the merits here that this is the first reading of an ordinance it's not a public hearing comments such as you've made earlier are really addressed at a public hearing line you can comment that it's there and what's it about but a actual detailed public hearing is at the second reading so I think everything is appropriate for so if I may dialog with you introduction on first reading so what my understanding of the agenda is these two pages this is the agenda definitions and a breakdown of all things that appear on the agenda are the supplemental Pages this being the agenda and if you would agree that this is the agenda normally you'll put the ordinance in there you put the resolutions in there and then Pages down you'll put the explanation and or details of that the fact and these folks are correct and I believe I am as well this is the agenda and it did not appear on the agenda would you agree with that so so that does not make you officient I'm asking yes or no that if this is the agenda does not make it deficient if you're saying all you have to tell the public is what the agenda says and not the material then you're not correct okay so all in all it did not appear on the agenda it appeared on the supplemental information cont all right so with it being the second reading later on you know this Council and this council president is very strict on time and you get three minutes you get five minutes or you get unlimited time you when you get get when you're the public and you can get a second bite at the Apple you take every opportunity that's what a public meeting is for and sometimes once in a while you'll give us an explanation it does explain that we're satisfactory with most times not um but I want to remind this Council when you vote on that ordinance to borrow to swipe our credit card for another 600,000 when you're sitting on $2.8 million of money that was meant to fix our sewer system and you're borrowing when the money's leaking out of Mr cartis is and mayor's pockets okay the money's there you're borrowing and we pay for it we pay for it you pay for it too but this is getting crazy because the people spoke they want that you know I don't know why you don't just put the MUA back you've proven that you dropped the ball and it costs money and it's going to cost money you threaten to raise taxes you dro the ball you destroyed something that was good I have to ask you this is one you should vote no one this is one you should vote no one don't take the money that you got and swipe our credit card thank you for your time thank you very much we close the first public portion Proclamation drives over or get pulled over 2024 year end holiday Crackdown whereas approximately one-third of all fatal traffic crashes in the United States involve impair drivers and whereas during the December months of 2018 to 2022 4759 people lost their lives in alcohol impaired driving crashes including 1,62 fatalities in December 22 alone whereas compaired driving crashes cost the United States almost $44 billion a year and whereas over the past five years New Jersey roadways have experienced 33,785 62 fatalities involving impaired drivers and whereas an enforcement Crackdown has been planned to combat impaired driving during the year-end holiday season and whereas the holiday season is traditionally a time for social Gatherings many of which include alcohol and whereas the state of New Jersey Division of highway traffic safety has called upon law enforcement agencies throughout the state to participate in the drive sober or get pulled over 2024 year-end holiday Crackdown and whereas this campaign will involve increased impaired driving enforcement from December 6 2024 through January 1st 2025 and whereas enhanced enforcement efforts and the reduction of impaired driving will help save lives on our roadways therefore be it resolved that the township of Gloucester declares the support for the drive sober or get pulled over 2024 year-end holiday Crackdown from December 6 2024 through January 1st 2025 thank thank you bid report 2024 Gabriel davies's Tavern bathroom demolition East wall restoration may have a motion please to accept the bid report there a second on the question roll call please Mr Man yes Mrs Al Trel yes Mrs Grace love yes Mr Nash yes Mrs Walters Mr marado yes next is uh ordinance 0-24 d23 this is the first reading there'll be a a hearing at the second reading waren amending chapter 81- 32A of the code of the township of Gloucester entitled vehicles and traffic of the code of Township of Gloucester this identifies a designat do not block the Box uh for the following location on Blenheim eel Road County Road 706 at the entrance of Blackwood Elementary School and Blenheim Neo Road County Road 706 at the exit of Blackwood Elementary School may I have a motion please may I have a second on the question roll call please Mr M yes Mrs Al Trel Mrs Grace L yes Mr Nash yes Mrs Walter Mr marado yes next is ordinance 0-24 d24 a bond ordinance authorizing the completion of various improvements and acquisition of the equipment for the SE utility system in and for the township of Gloucester County of Canon New Jersey author authorizing the sum of $585,000 therefore authorizing the issuance of General obligation bonds or Bond anticipation notes of the township of bler County of Camden New Jersey in the aggregate principal amount of up to $585,000 making certain determinations and Covenants and authorizing certain related actions and connections with the foregoing this is for uh generators at two pump stations a sewer Rehabilitation project at new Brooklyn eel Road uh upgrades to pump stations and various equipment Replacements which includes Channel Grinders replacement pumps and well a well a wet well wizard blower all right uh entertain a motion that motion is there a second second on the question roll call please Mr yes Mrs Al Shel yes Mrs Grace L I have a question real um I from that Mr car I'm sorry question Miss Grace love says she lives off particular Ro should she abstain from you can abstain Mr Nash yes Mrs Walters yes Mr Marcato yes I'm sorry I'm sorry ordinance 0-24 d25 Bond ordinance authorizing the completion of various Park improvements in the township of bler cany Cam in New Jersey appropriating the sum of $948,000 therefore authorizing the issuance of General obligation bonds or Bond anticipation notes to the township of bler County of Camden New Jersey in the aggregate principal amount of up to $948,000 making certain determination in covenants and authorizing certain related actions in connections with the foring this is for the completion of various Park improvements this for the tailor Avenue playground in my discussion with Mr cartis we are required to have a bond ordinance in place but that does not necess necessarily mean we are going out for a bond for this amount is that correct Mr cartis yes even though it is a a 100% Grant to the 948 th000 uh you still need a bond or by Finance Bo to have aond ordinance green also I entertain a motion I'll make that motion is there a second on the question roll call please Mr M yes Mrs ALB chel yes Mrs Grace Mo yes Mr Nash yes Mrs Walters Mr Mar yes uh next is our consent agenda there is an item on resolution 380 where there is a duplicate on a IND individual uh authorize the refunding of taxes uh Couture pack is listed twice on this resolution so um I need to amend resolution 380 uh is there a second I'll second on the question says roll call to amend 380 resolution 380 Mr Man yes Mrs alright TRX Mrs Grace yes Mr Nash yes to amend Mrs Walter yes to amend Mr marado yes to amend now we have the consent agenda as amended may I have a motion is there a second on the question roll call please Mr Man Mrs Albright Trel Mrs Grace love yes Mr Nash Mrs Walters um so I yes except for um payment of bills yes um to that except for two of them I abstain from 24-0 6718 in amount of $50 and 24- 07074 in amount of $800 you can provide that to the clerk that'll make it EAS for her as she writes us down thank you Mr M yes to [Music] all regular agenda resolution to make budget transer between Appropriations and the calendar year 2024 general fund budget may have a motion got motion is there a second second on the question roll call please Mr Man yes Mrs Al Troxel yes Mrs Grace love Mr Nash yes Mrs Walters yes Mr M yes next is our GTE go access we have three [Music] emails the first is from Terry fretz at 85 Cherry Circle in light of the fact that in recent months Council has made everyone aware of the large debt Gloucester Township currently owes I would like to ask about item 0-24 d24 in the agenda why do we need to borrow $585,000 for the sewer utility Council stated when they took over the gtmua it would save us money they also acquired $6 million at that time is all that money gone and if so is there an items list of where it went please explain why we need an additional $585,000 to our debt when dissolving the gtmua was done to save us money the township uh still needs to make repairs and keep up to-date uh maintenance on the sewer lines and pump stations the the breakdown that $585,000 $100,000 is being used for two generators at two pump stations uh $300,000 for sewer Rehabilitation those for sewer Improv improvements on new Brooklyn eel Road there are $25,000 dedicated to various upgrades to pump stations miscellaneous repairs to pump stations and $160,000 for various equipment replacement uh those examples are Channel Grinders replacement pumps and a wet well wizard blower the $6 million is not gone we still have $2,634 476 cents remaining this is how we use the money the balance of the distribution um as of the dis dissolution of June 30th of 2023 there was 5,264 4476 uh $300,000 was used in that budget for that particular year in 2023 the balance as of 1231 2023 of that remaining money was $ 4,964 $ 44.76911° balance remains at $2,634 4.76 those Figures were provided by our Chief Financial Officer today next is from uh Gerard Dunley uh 82 Highland Avenue in cille this was more of an observation than it is a question but hopefully helps it helps solve issues with trash being strewn all over Township roads it was observed this day albe it a windy day that the cycle pickups seems to cause more issues with trash not being collected than are actually collected my brother was out and about and observed on several occasions trash being strewn about on this windy day and not being picked up I get that automation is supposed to be a good thing save money over Manpower but not at the expense of the environment that we're all trying to preserve for once can someone please show care for what they are doing and pick up trash the issue stems from never leaving the vehicle and just pushing a button in this case I believe that the automation has caused a laziness and it results in a Township that is more junked up than ever on these windy days postpone the pickup or simply be more attentive to your job trying to save a buck is not helping anyone thank you all for listening uh the township is unable to change the schedule routes for collection of recyclables the employ we have a clean communities program uh that personnel is funded through a stra estate Grant to clean litter throughout the township uh we will continue to schedule the we'll continue the schedule that's established and dispatch clean Community employees throughout the township and our last egov is from Robert Victor of for Laurel Wood Court how long is the information from police license plate readers kept approximately how many plates with location information are recorded daily is this information ever purged do you feel it should be ever purged or kept forever who has access to this information is the information ever sold to a third party I realize that some of this information has been used to solve crimes but feel that citizens privacy should also also be considered uh the all written or electronic records of the uh alpr AC the license plate readers and access to that data are maintained by the Gloucester Township Police Department for a period of three years the how many plates with location information recorded daily that number varies depending on how many are in service at any given time which can change daily after three years the retention period is meant has meant the information is purged from the system from the police department the F should ever be purged or kept forever the GL s Police Department is in compliance with new J asy attorney general law enforcement directive 2022-23 party that concludes our egov we'll now go go to our second public portion this portion is for 30 minutes each speaker is entitled to five minutes uh once a speaker has spok and they may speak again if only it adds to what they've had what they' said earlier they can speak a second time once everyone is uh who has raised their hand has spoken anyone like to speak to First public portion Miss smithman followed by Miss [Music] Co hi good evening Council good evening again my name is sh C smithman I live in the SDK milb Gardens apartment complex on milbrook Court Apartment 341 may I ask when is the the next meeting December typically it's not on the fourth Monday for the month of December typically it's moved in years past we had moved it usually the last week in December this year is December 23rd so we'll be meeting days before Christmas and Hanukkah all right so it will be on the fourth Monday on the correct schedule day all right thank you uh forgive me I was not in this Council room when the meeting first began I had to um I had to go and speak to an authority and then come back to the meeting and I missed the beginning portion uh who the who was the clerk today excuse me who was the clerk today Miss bord and who is standing in for security for security it says Chief Harkins on here but that person does not appear to be Chief arkins oh that is Deputy Chief maazi okay he has sat in in previous meetings I have seen that before but I was unaware of um the actual name of the person thank you may I ask um The Christmas donations I don't want to get upset so I'm just going to ask is glester Township New Jersey accepting donations for Christmas this year yes okay uh I have tried to donate two gift cards and some cash to the Gloucester Township New Jersey um please watch desk area where there was a Dropbox but the Box did not announce any type did not announce what the name of the donation Drive was called called like what it was referred to the title of the the donation Drive they did accept two gift cards last year I was told this year they do not accept gift cards do they I am not aware of what they accept I I can't answer that it's the mayor's no no no you said you went to the watch Des of the police dep it is the it is sponsored by the mayor the mayor is the one oh there that you said you went to the the police watch desk that's if you were going to donate something to the mayor's toy drive you would go to the mayor's office out here in the hall it's the same toy drive you just it's for convenience purposes it is it is not the same toy drive well then you should make the police department aware of that it is not the same toy drive because there was a box in that area so fortunately they were um very educated enough to not take a donation for somebody else's Christmas toy drive what what is it called box were you able to donate what you wanted to donate I was not okay that's why I'm asking do you still want to donate those items I don't let see I have never been married I've I don't own any property I've never sued anyone I've never collected workers compensation I haven't owned a car in close to 10 years my father God rest's Soul Harry courin Smith and did not have a last will in Testament I never sued anybody in a court of law there are many things that have been going on that I have been trying to get through to this Township not receiving assistance with that in any way what is your question for me my question to you is those items you want to donate would you like to still donate them if you would like to do donate them I'll help facilitate that transaction for you cards yes the cash the cash no we're not going to accept cash you can use the cash maybe purchase something no see I don't drive right now because I don't have a vehicle I have not for close to 10 years I cannot get the toy to the box I would have to walk it and not only is it you want me to walk two miles um where do you get you would be in between the Dollar General and right in between going is a gift card acceptable [Music] yes very fine that's that's fine thank you very much for your generosity cash out we're not accepting the cash I know but you take the cash out okay I'm not taking the cash out okay you can open that use the table why don't you use the table okay we're GNA go to our next speaker okay Miss coin Jim can you help can you help Miss smithman and also P Mr Nash will help you he's will be neighborly okay put right here Mr Nash will help you over there yes Miss coin Denise coin she was Landing sorry um the $2.6 million that you said is left in the sewer quote Surplus is that the money that the local Finance board said you had to hold for the bond SCS it probably would be considered today yeah okay so that's money that you cannot spend according I don't I don't know that to be I know that to be when they heard it the case which was in 23 it's now we're going into 25 I don't know if that was indefinite they okay but it was money that the local Finance board initially said had to be held correct I believe that's what they were referring okay so it was a separate pile with money other than the money that was rolled into the budget I believe that's okay all right and then uh for ordinance 2424 um the money that is being uh spent through the general oblig ation vond um the categories uh listed on the ordinance are very uh General and vague and I know uh president marado just gave some additional detail for the for those uh categories but what I'm wondering is the um local Finance board um the Rivington and Vernick report identified uh clear priority um for Capital Improvements to the sewer system and um I don't believe anything that was mentioned was on that priority list are you aware if anything on that list is in this $585,000 no I'll give you an example that $300,000 is for a uh neighborhood community where they have issue with their septic and that is to tie that particular Community neighborhood into our sewer system but was that that was not that was not something that was anticipated in May of 23 or March of 23 when that application was made okay but I'm asking is any of that money that you anticipate spending for any of these items that were listed as priorities or the Remington and Vernick report I don't have that report in front of me m Mr cartis I couldn't tell it okay well it was a replacement of pumps at fayan and Steven Drive I don't believe that was mentioned installation of an emergency generator at Ean pumping station I don't believe that was mentioned replacement of the Glen Oaks Pump Station I don't believe that was mentioned reallocation of the no relocation of the Summerdale Road Pump Station that wasn't mentioned replacement of the Ora Road Force main that wasn't mentioned so I'm wondering if there's a plan to spend any money on the item that were identified as priorities for spending Capital Improvements on I would have to defer Mr cars and the SE utility uh director yeah right now we do not have a plan do you plan on having a plan at some point at some point we will do you know when that'll be do okay don't you think that's important to have to have a plan to spend money to borrow money is that what you're asking me to have a plan and to maintain properly maintain to properly maintain our sewer system per the Remington and vering money that's what I'm talking about to have a plan for priorities I'm sure we will be doing Capital are you aware that the MUA that you raise that before it was dissolved that they in they introduced a budget and do you know how much money they put in there for Capital perment you have any idea how would I know that 19 million 19 million is what they were going to put in there and none of it was coming from that $6 million that you keep referring to that was that's in writing that's their budget that was proposed for 23 okay I didn't refer to any $6 million just now I'm referring to priorities now it has been referred to okay but how much is the balance 2.6 that you have to keep for Capital and that's not what the plan was the plan was not to take the 6 million to use for the 19 million of cap that they were going to do the 2.6 million was for a bond that's what it was for the 2.6 is Surplus but it was set aside by the local Finance board to pay a bond correct no I don't believe that that is still in existence okay but it was set aside by the local Finance board to pay they set aside $3 million they said you can spend up to as much as you want as long as you leave $3 million in in cir I believe it was 2.8 is what they said $2.8 million thank you Miss coin uh there's more time you come back up again yes Miss [Music] Henry could you please take a seat He he'll he'll speak to you can you please take a seat I'll just St here I forget yes Miss Hendry Dina Hendry Summerdale um so when the MUA was dissolved it was stated that we were going to save money how much money has the taxpayers or the township have saved year to date I I don't have that information on me Mr Carter is that something that you would have I do not like a ballpark like I mean $10 million like how much like I mean you deal numbers every day so you should have some sort of idea you know because every month you have to reconcile the accounts like what is the savings to the taxpayers and this Township I'm not gonna throw a number out there because I don't have just told well the last time that you reconciled everything when like I mean you have meetings right and you know a checkup and say okay as of today May of 24 we have saved X they have not the CFO has not even completed the uh annual financial statements on audited for the general fund or for the or for the Utility Fund yet that's not dual until mid-February okay so when we dissolved it in May of 23 so may of 23 to December of 23 how much did that save us like it was it was stated that we were going to you know reduce redundancies and not have let's say two payroll people or two of the same things like what have we done to save the township money mean certain things were eliminated we no longer pay a board there is no Authority board being paid there are professionals that have been Consolidated um I don't have a list I'm just talking extent so so with the MUA and the Surplus that it ran on the budget wouldn't it have been prudent to keep that lot sum of money to have those repairs especially if we knew like we as as a Township right if we knew that $19 million would have been needed for Capital Improvements like instead of spending it we should have saved it maybe May that's the reason why there was a surplus because they knew that there was going to be $19 million worth of repairs that great you're not a bank I'm not a bank and they're not a bank and I'm gonna add to that that $6 million was not going to be touched they were going to go out for a bond on it correct that $6 million was just accumulating but it was an emergency like like if it was Miss Hendrick wasn't being used it wasn't being used but it was just it was it was accumulating you know for a rainy day per se so it shouldn't go back to the tax taxpayers or the rapers is that what you're saying that money should sit we should accumulate funds in a bank we should be the bank of public and we should keep that money for the public because it's better that we keep it don't give it back to the taxpayers don't give it to the rers correct is that what you're saying I would have yeah if I if I was you I would have I would have saved it because I don't agree with you at all you have Surplus you should apply you should give it back to tax but now but now we're have to borrow money instead of saying okay we have it you know like so you should sit with all that M yes okay that's a good philosophy but now we have to borrow it that's the thing and then also if you could get me the savings like what is how are we saving by that dissolvement like what is the figure like we've asked and asked multiple times and nobody knows so why did we do it are we having a staring contest you keep asking the same question because I haven't gotten an answer that's right didn't get an answer I don't have an analysis of what the savings are I will tell you that it was approved unanimously by the local Finance board there were people that are in this room right now today that were on that meeting when the local Finance board approved it there was also resolution of the gtmua body the authority to dissolve that was also unanimous so we dissolved it not to save money what was the purpose to dissolve it to save money okay so what's the money being saved we continue to save money it's but what's the amount like how much have we saved no there's no definitive point in time where we stopped and and and have taken account of what have we saved up to this very we still save money every all right thank you thank you Mr [Music] pador Miss Smith we'll we'll address that at the end of the meeting when the meeting's closed no you're disrupting our meeting Miss smithman you're interrupting our meeting just please take a seat in the front seat and we'll with Miss smithman I'm gonna ask you please take a seat 800 Miss no one gave you $800 Miss smithman please take a seat Miss smithman take a seat Miss smithman please take a seat Mr paloro hello again Council Ray holdor from Ariel the more I listen to the conversation the more redundant this gets the same questions keep getting answer asked because no answers are given uh all wrong everyone wanted to know what savings why did you destroy a fully functional wellworking mua an mua that was working with a budget a whole hell a lot better than this Township was working with to be able to put money away being that you can't answer the question and we're going to keep on asking and the reason to keep on asking is if you can't answer the reason that you stated that you were dissolving the MUA you give the appearance of a money grab that's what it looks like the money grab appears also to look like it was the Prelude to selling the MUA which you also said you weren't going to do now I'm not quite sure what the difference is between someone being ingenuous disingenuous and lying but I got to believe there's a thin line between the two not stating you did either or any of the above but it sure as hell does look like it so all the while I'm sorry in any event I'm gonna ask a very simple question and again going on the fact that you folks said that you were going to put this to the people after you destroyed the MUA after you did everything you did you left it into the hands of the people and you let them vote they voted Approximately 80% to 20% you got crushed that being said and what the people have spoken on what's to prevent you from putting the MUA back together again to putting a well oiled machine whether they were going to borrow money or not they borrowed money in the past they've not raised our rates all that much and if I'm being honest you guys really stunk trying to operate what they did really really well it was it's terrible fumble after fumble after fumble and the and the people spoke some I'm going to ask you what's to prevent you the buildings are still there you if I'm not mistaken a partial land a building or something is being rented what's to prevent you from putting the MUA back in order putting people back to work giving the people the $46 a quarter or thereabouts did you create a situation did you can't put the MUA back I'll ask you that simple yes or no I'm going to address some of the comments you made Mr paoro sure a lot of it is opinion and not factual maybe you should provide a disclaimer before you speak no one destroyed the MUA you said put the people back to work no one lost their jobs it is still functioning I didn't know you had this affinity for the MUA up until a year ago because I know you used to cast dispersion upon that mua didn't you it was a patronage pit you had issues you asked me a question no you said didn't you yes didn't you no I I was looking at a fund that people were Abus so can you tell me how what people lost who who who has to go back to work Mr paoro well they're working at a at a different the vendors you want put the vendors back to work no I'm talking professionals back to work I'm talking about putting back together a well-oiled machine it is still operating but you're pissing Serv are still being provided but you're pissing all the money away so you're okay with $6 million just sitting there as a bank cuz that's they were doing a good job with it they didn't raise our rates $6 million sitting and our rat stayed the same Mr carers has still yet to answer the question what savings nothing has been destroyed nothing has been crushed no one has lost their job then why did you put it up for bid because to save money oh bid but you can't answer the question I answered your question you don't like we dissolved it to save money economies of scale okay that's why we did it and then we put it out to bid for the public and the public responded and as you say we got crushed so we know we had the feeling that you get when you get crushed so I answered your questions I responded you know the people that voted on this were not voting party and yet you want you want to create you want to create a little political termoil it has nothing to do with that what turmoil am I creating you should never solve the mua you should have left it alone you dropped the ball you fumbled you you're saying money is dripping out of Mr Carter's pocket in the May usually the case it's not thank you very much Ray have a great holiday you too what was the situation in 2007 because I was speaking in the microphone pleas it's hard to hear you that you were with Cindy R Hatton because you she was your candidate and she was having meetings with members of this you really want to go down that road you know you really want to go down that road let me tell you something it didn't have anything to do with money your time is up you can't hand money you can't handle money the way that way did you're not that good artist you're not you're not as good as them you're not that good please take a seat check in with them again please take a seat please take a [Music] seat no no no grab a no no no no please take a seat as well I'll send you no no no I have not called you up to the mic drive my name is Smith it's called mayor's toy drive if you could please have councilman Nash bring those gift cards down so I could identify that toy drive on those cards you you just had you just had me hand over $800 I just want to write down that it goes to the proper toy donation for Christmas could you please have Council b as bring them back so I can write on them where they're going Al s said toys for TOS but apparently no I did not he said on your camera by the way I showed you a sign right in the office here's your gift cards you can hit per at the May's office have a good evening we're not taking them back Miss smithman I'm going to ask you to leave our meeting here please leave our meeting we're not going to continue Miss smithman I'm going to ask you Mr Melendez can you aore miss smithman out of our you're not no you're not gra your cards turn them into the mayor's office on your own time we are not taking them to good cards from you tonight we identify the toy drive for you I differentiate between the police department and the mayor for you and you're being disruptive please collect your belongings and follow us out of the boat thank you let's go go not accepting we are not AC what did you do you're insufferable have a nice evening why did you the two $500 gift card that were donated last year you didn't give them to me I don't know gra your this meeting know way this you're part of community relation that expected two gift card for me and I was told by your police officers that you do not accept gift cards we don't the police department does not the police department does not accept cash or gift cards no they do not grab your things let's go let's go man we're going to take a 5 minute recess your questions have a good I did not receive any good car they were not placed in my possession [Music] abely I don't need anything for you but for you to leave go [Music] ex my first meeting someone has had to be escorted out because of lack of deorum for the rest of the people in this room my first timeing that's a long time it's a long time you're right video the guys look good went from 400 800 be like yeah okay [Music] mam cler there the roll call again Mr here Mrs Albright chel here Mrs Grace love here Mr Nash here Mrs Walters Mr marado pres Mr car here Mr ctis here deputy chief pazi here Mr uh for those who are in the audience and those that are watching at home I apologize for that disruption uh we have a Rule of Order and proper decorum in our meetings and unfortunately we have an individual bid sometimes I don't adhere to that um so I do apologize to those in the audience and those that are watching from home uh we'll still continue our public portion I believe we have at that we have another 10 minutes left in our public portion anyone wish to speak that has not spoken yet miss coin [Music] she's Landing um I would like to quote president marato when he said that the sewer issue was not a red issue and it wasn't a blue issue it's a green issue yeah except tonight I think once again it is made a political issue it shouldn't because Tom corter sat there and yelled at Ray Paulo over politics that was 100% political you didn't get ready Y is he a public servant is he a public servant or is he a member of the public I st a fact okay are you public servants are you members of Council in the administrator talk about the Quorum you guys are supposed to be professionals we're public members you are supposed to be Council and the administration the Quorum was that the quorum I don't appreciate coming to a meeting and having to sit here and listen to council members scream at the public who is screaming at the public Tom cartis Tom cartis is not a council member he's not's part of the administration he not no shouting out from the audience please I just talked about the core are you raising your voice right now to me no I no I'm not talking to you I'm talking to the individuals in the back Mr Caris is not an elected official you know that he's part of the administration he is not an elected official part Administration you're cutting me off no council member here yelled at anyone today I said at the administration and Council no you started off as Council but go ahead I also said the administration he is part of the administration he is a professional he is a public servant there's theorum on you guys side he's sitting there smirking at me right now that's not the Quorum so and as far as the sewer borrowing money the MU UA yes they borrowed money I'm sure they had to to operate they borrowed money they also charged the public $46 a quarter and they ran an efficient mua the last time they B million I'm speaking please don't interrupt me theorum once again you're speaking in May I can respond I am I wasn't done speaking you interrupted me Mr Caris Mr you interrupted me Mr cars and miss please speak your five minutes I'm trying and we'll respond at the if we want please instruct him not to interrupt me so I could finish that would be awesome yes Mr cartis please you know what I'm done Mr thank you the public portion is public comment and it's been a practice for many years that Council responds to questions it's not a Q&A it's public comment I'm not I'm I'm not talking to I'm talking in general you go to any other uh board throughout the township and it is a public comment it's not a public Q&A this Council responds and answers questions if questions are going to be asked we're going to try to respond to those questions but if someone just wants to talk for five minutes then they can talk for five minutes Miss Hendry you'll be our last speaker [Music] [Music] tinina Hendry suale to confirm council is elected correct yes excellent and positions like our Township solicitor and our business administrator they are on the township payroll correct they are appointed and they serve at the pleasure of the mayor okay but they are paid through Township funds that is correct okay I think I will speak for myself because I don't like anybody speaking for me so I'm not going to do that for anybody else but I think for myself when you have somebody who is serving the people with public funds taking pot shots and being smug and trying to have a staring contest and yelling to basically their employer right because they're employed by Township dollars that is where theorum is lost all respect is lost when people who are employed by the township by the people yell at the people for simply asking questions questions that have been asked many times and we have not gotten an answer so the fault is on Mr CIS because he should have not behaved that way so who does Mr ctis answer to because he doesn't answer to the people because we can't vote him in or out he serves at the pleasure of the mayor he is appointed by the mayor okay so will the mayor review this council meeting to see of his outburst and unprofessionalism I don't know if the mayor will review this meeting okay um will you tell the mayor about the unprofessionalism that took place there were comments made there were comments made on an almost weekly basis to Mr cartis and Mr Caris this is my take on it responds to what he's receiving so if someone is saying to him that cash is dripping out of his pocket uh do you think Mr C is going to wish them a merry Christmas and happy holidays and send them a Christmas card no but but no no if there's it he's responding to what is being said to him at times there are times that Mr carus I ask Mr carus let's stop and let's move on from it but I think there's a lot of people in this room including yourself that have made statements in this uh body here that have not been respectful you're probably right and we still have people shouting out from the back I don't understand you're you're absolutely right but here is here is the thing I am not an employee of the township no you're not okay where he is an employee of the township he is a reflection of the township and to behave that way is not a good look whether it's myself or others who might make a statement that is considered disrespectful it's out of frustration it's out of the fact that we are desperately wanting transparency and asking questions and we don't get the answers I mean how hard is it to say we have saved x amount of money how hard is it to just answer a question but to have be to be attacked if you can't if you can't take it you shouldn't be up there it is a big responsibility that all of you sit up there it is I'm not going to doubt that but here's the thing we get attacked and it's a continuous thing so of course there is some sort of animosity but it starts with you guys if you want to change how you are perceived you have to do it you have to do it because when anybody attacked you from up here are you no I'm serious when do anybody up here attack you I have been told that oh I know where you live nice people used to live there they did nice people used to live there but why would you say that there are some good people that live there they're involved in their communities they are good people but that is not you you wanted to take it another way and I'd let you continue to say that but okay there was people I have 18 seconds what about the letter that was written about me through Council through Council Council didn't write that letter count the C the say let's write a letter about DEA Hendry no there are individuals you were ran you ran in the campaign right you ran for election yes okay and a letter came out by two council members and you didn't like that letter because it was written by by two council members as Council but this body of council we didn't send that out she did okay she did sheered her first amendment rights didn't she as a council woman you're supposed to be impartial okay see you have told me that you don't represent me you said I represent everybody but you no that's what you said back at it see I'm going to use a term that people used to say about our means that we're gaslighting people no no no no no you are my time is up I don't just represent you I represent everyone thank you very much we'll close the second public portion polling the directors Mr Mr cartis I just speak for a second yeah Mr cartis absolutely I'm speaking and I'm not yelling at anyone what my point was Mr fador was that I served under Cindy Ral Hatton for three and a half years in 199 2006 July 1 to when she her term expired which I believe 2009 2009 and during that time she held several meetings with members of a a one particular of the two major water companies with the goal of disbanding the MUA the one that you love so much and want to put back together and she was not successful but she did meet and you knew she met because she had conversations with you too and I was part of some of those meetings so they'll tell me it didn't happen and I'm not yelling but I'm telling you the facts so I guess it wasn't good at that time and it's not good now that's all I have deputy chief maazi we just like to update Council a resident in the area of old black hor p and Taylor Avenue had some traffic concerns county has going and uh said it's acceptable to look further into lowering the speed limit so we're going through the process of getting that done as well as some other uh potential traffic cing measures in that area and then secondly uh we just want to invite Council remind you if you were not made aware this Saturday is our annual Shop with a which is a fantastic very heartwarming event we cherish uh we begin to show up at 7 the kids show up between 8:30 uh if we don't have anything to do our Target Mr Miguel nothing to add thank you [Music] okay okay now now we go through all Council so sorry Mr thank you for coming have a great night great week Mrs Al Trel yes I want to thank the police for taking control of a situation that was um in the history of me attending meetings of All Sorts I've never seen anything like it or heard anything like it and I just want to thank you for very much for your decorum which was spot on I think respect goes both ways because they were very respectful to the woman even though she wasn't very respectful to anyone in this room and it's not nice to see respect going from Council from the police to the residents I and the residents should give respect back and I I really appreciate what you've done so thank you Mrs Grace low yes I agree I wasn't here but I do know that our Police Department is f is around and always taking account person first because that was not her usual personality so I think it's important that you know you always understand that and treat her with care and we appreciate you always everyone have a great night and see you the next meeting Mr Nash have a good night Mrs Walters uh everyone thank you for coming out and have a good night Mr marot I want to thank everyone for coming out this evening uh this Saturday is the Christmas Village this weekend uh with the tree lighting taking place Saturday evening I believe at 6:30 is it tree lighting 6:30 in tree lighting and there'll be a special visitor on uh top of the fire truck um yes Santa so if you guys can if anyone can make it those are in the audience as well each year uh so January 2nd is our reorganization uh for the township at that time there there are during that time period we talk about uh the order of business for our Council meetings and if there's any changes we want to make during that uh I think in light of today's meeting there needs to be some changes in how our meetings are run and how the agenda flows uh so those changes they may be coming uh sooner than later as we enter into the new year with that I rain a motion to adjourn is there a second all those in favor have a great evening yourone [Music] [Music]