[Music] okay thanks so we've got this thing we're we're recording now I have not talked to to uh Dave D roer but I I'm not sure that that I'm Ken Lane it sounded like he said something well didn't sound like I read it he said that water is draining I don't know what he meant by that I didn't know what whether they put any drainage lines in or whether he was just saying that they put the slope on the road in a way that it would drain do you have any idea colen well what he said was they did the best they could for to make it good for everyone on the street so I I don't know exactly what they did yeah once I see Bill is is coming on so yeah we'll see if if Bill how are you good morning good afternoon good evening everyone how you doing hi Bill hello good how are you good good hi Lee hi Bill we can get to Ken Lane in a bit I guess uh we with no no appointments and and uh I guess we can move through this we are recording right now I think Lynn is coming okay yeah Jason so what I've got is the meeting minutes from June 18 how are we with those yeah I'm I'm fine with uh with what Colleen sent out yeah that's fine dick okay I am too Colleen so they're approved all three of us okay the time sheet for Colleen for the June 29th and that's a a 70h hour normal 70 hour period are we okay with that yes yeah that's good it's fine and I am too Colleen so that's approved okay the next one is uh payments to the treasurer and it totals 7 $15 of that we've got $495 $495 board of health permits then $150 for Board of Health fees $60 for gas permits and that's it totaling $75 are we okay with it yeah fine dick I am too okay for some reason bill I am not hearing you very very loud maybe I is this a different platform it's called Zoom workplace I'm not sure yeah let me let me see if I can turn my audio up I don't know if still hear you and there's not a lot of promotion going on yeah okay and this is Department schedule of Department bills payable there are two of these the first one is Fred Maran for plumbing inspections for $665 Fred Marian for plumbing mileage $28 colen from mileage to and from the Town Hall that's for I think that's for the whole year is it sing it is yeah whole year that's [Music] $41.60 and we fa recycle for $335 189 totaling $1,749 are we okay with them yes I am are you Bill I don't hear you at all now oh he's muted yeah okay how about now okay is it okay yeah but there's a slider for the Audio I turned it up a bit I'm maybe probably come back and so did you say you're okay with that bill yeah yes okay coling I am too so that okay thank you the next one is another payable and that's for mileage for colen sending the air samp that we didn't use that for the state for $12.90 is for po I mean postage dick were those those were none of them were set up the one one of them was set up in in McDuffy yeah but the rest of them getting the power and getting the the internet connection seemed to be something that was not easy to do so that were they powered by power over ethernet Poe no no they have a a separate 110 power supply oh because you know I could have put one on one of my Towers here but I'm not too keen on having 110 on the tower because if it was Poe because I got security cameras on using Poe up there which is low voltage which isn't a problem but forget about the 110 yeah well once it gets up once it gets through the Transformer set down right right but but it doesn't matter it's they're gone okay so I had we have to decide are we going to pay Colleen for postage oh yes yeah of course I am too Colleen so that's approved okay the next one that we have I'm just looking I'm trying to be careful that I don't I almost threw my agenda away the next one that we have is a well permit application for 104 month thing rid and and that is that is the not for pable water this is for for heating and cooling oh oh for heat geothermal heat pump yeah okay are they doing two Wells dick or one no it looks like one it looks like one the the current I don't I'm tried to see if this is the the one that that the current way of doing it I'm guessing it is it looks to me it is and what they do is they drill the well they put the the pipe in and then they fill the well back up with concrete right yeah that's a closed loop system yeah some people like open loop systems but there's other problems with those of course okay are we okay with this yeah yeah how how many feet are they going I'm curious just try to see it I don't I don't see it right in front of me because they know what it is once they know they're in rock they know exactly what they need to have for heat you know typically they'll go down 500 feet or more with some of those I know so so they're going to backfill the entire bore hole with grout yeah that's what the plan is that's I didn't realize they did that I thought a lot of times they'd like to have the water in there because the water has a higher heat capacity I know and they end up doing I guess for a safety standpoint they don't do it but wow I'm just trying to see where this tells the the bore hold before they hit ledge and but I don't see I don't see the total depth but when they do this they actually end up not looking for the water they what they're looking for is the to say they're just going you know their pipe to the grout to the stone and that's how they they transfer the heat Lee are you okay with this oh sure yes yes only thing they have be yeah I know this one had to be 50 feet from the the drinking water well and it is I'm just looking at very interesting though does the state have guide a guidance document I don't know that they they do I they must have some guidance document because when the the folks that at Brook real estate when they they put the well in the wrong place they were going to change use that as a geothermal well and it was it was too close to the drinking water well and the guy knew it right away the guy that was putting in the geothermal but I can't use this oh so so there are some guidance do supposedly those those heat those geothermal heat pumps are super efficient from what I'm told I know there there have some now that are a lot cheaper to install instead of big Wells they're big rigs they've got little rigs that come in and they're they're uh because that's the the cost of the system is in that wellth oh I really that's probably $50,000 between all the wells and all the Mechanicals it's a lot of money it takes a long time to get that money back believe me yeah do they have do they have to contact Lee with this yeah I would guess they should contact Lee because he's gota make sure that they're at least the 50 feet away from their drinking water want make sure it the same thing okay so you're we did approve that okay the next one is a renewal for EXC excavation plus Jer talet for a disposal Works installers permit from Mon oh yeah yeah I know those guys they've been around a long time so you okay with it yeah Lee you okay sure yeah thank you and I am too Colleen so that's approv okay the next one is a disposal work construction permit is from lry mol for 562 East State Street Lee you must know this one that this is the it looks like they put a a te and the a filter on the outlet of the tank and then a new Deb that's that was the plan yes so you're okay with it yeah the work's not done but um I think that's what excavation plus is all about with his oh I oh I see Lori Lor's working for them I got you I see how that works so are you okay Bill with this yeah oh yeah Lori's fine I am I am too Callen so that's approve okay the next one we've got three title five and the actually it was 50 rep Porter Street these both had this was from uh tetti and clean septic they both had the same issue that the 53 Porter Street and 34 South Street both of these systems were fill system and he just gave us the the distance from he just gave us the water table without looking at at how much they raised the system height and in both of these they they exceed I think one is a 4 foot and the other is a five foot separation for water table and they're both pretty new relatively new systems title five systems are we okay with both of those the changes yeah yes that's fine Le are you there Lee oh yep here we are yeah they had that data the whole time and they for some reason have a have a hard time disseminating the information needed um repeatedly but eventually I hope they catch on to it it would save them and us a lot of effort yeah and the homeowner too so Okay so we've Ken we've accepted that both of those okay okay the next one was 114 West Creek Greg Everson passes that one was a 1500 gallon tank and and it was a Title Five repair with a variant so that was three feet the water table on the repair so that that passes our requirement are we okay with that one Lee yes yep that's fine dick and me too Colleen so that's approved okay um I Len is here oh okay how are you Len hello I'm good how are you hey so I just want to give you a quick update I'm okay I just want to let you guys know that I'm finishing up my inspections um I got about a handful left mainly the churches because I have to schedule those inspections okay um Isaac from cruising Cafe actually gave me a call today um which is weird because I thought I thought he was going to be ready I think it was right before I went to Portugal he said he was going to C call me so that was April and so I hadn't heard from him but he called me today said he's ready to open up the restaurant part of it so I have to um I'm going to call him back um tomorrow and schedule that inspection hopefully that'll be okay hopefully um yeah so hopefully it'll be okay the letter that we sent out regarding labels and all that seemed to do the trick everyone's on board and did exactly what they were supposed to do which is awesome oh good um yeah I was really yeah very very pleased with that one and I do have to do some re-inspections um because you know there was quite a few violations in a few places but other than that um but other than that everything's just going smoothly I just want to give you guys an update good we did thaten sent out a a question this week uh for a a woman that was preparing food I think in a prepared in an approved Kitchen in in ller and and it brings it brings up an interesting question at least for me that it appeared that what she was saying is she was GNA go to different events and she was going to do the selling as compared with supplying uh food to the owner of the event and the owner would be doing the the selling so when I listen to that question it appeared to me that it would be exactly the same as a food truck kind of thinking that that a food truck showing up at well for instance at The Wine House The Wine House yeah yeah that that it's the food truck selling the food not The Wine House selling the food and it would appear to me that that the proper thing is that she has to be have a license because she's a vendor selling things I don't Bill and Lee and Lynn what are your thoughts I agree Colleen had talked to me or or sent an email about it and I was like I didn't yeah I was going to bring that up as well um I agree I mean it's it's the same concept yeah so mobile food she'll need a mobile food the trucks have okay all right long as she has her insurance certificates that's important and all all her state licenses so that's fine yeah she's got something from lllo to have this Bakery but uh yeah okay good do you know what colen do you know which Bakery it is it's she's called she's got she says a cottage Bakery uh Taylor uh let's see I don't know if I have the name here um Taylor's I think it's Taylor's Taylor's Bakery or something simple interesting yeah I I'm just I I just I know I grew up in L so I I know pretty much all the bakeries and she didn't it didn't ring a bell so that's why I was like or maybe I and I was like maybe I just quickly looked at it but that's yeah I think she's a home well I own a Cott Bakery so I thought she met like a home Bakery a cottage Foods Home Bakery that's what I thought like a residential kitchen type um so um her name is Taylor tras um so that yeah I don't I don't see where she says what the name of her place is probably on this Taylor TR so would have to provide the same the same kind of information she'd have to be providing us if she's preparing food herself she should give us a copy of that certificate that she's a a food producer in llo and yeah she has the other the other that that Lynn would probably need to work with we she could be cooking stuff with custard and so just as with the food truck she if she's got stuff that's got the ential of being hazardous she needs to to be taking care of that if she's doing cakes and breads or something it's different story but I don't think told us exactly what she doing yeah she said Gourmet Cookies Cupcakes macaroons decorated cookies bars brownies and quick breads that's what she says she sells so I just wasn't sure because it's not hazardous stuff I don't it get it does get tricky if like she's using Custer you know all that stuff then it's a whole other story yeah um I guess old rule of thumb is if it's sugary or if it's acidic it's okay but stuff like chicken salad and custard watch out exactly yeah yeah okay well I guess we'll get more information and go from there okay okay I'll have her apply for the Mobile Food then she wants to do that great so how are you doing in general Lyn is life treating you okay and are are we treating you okay yes everything's actually going really it's going really smooth yeah everything's you know like I said yeah it's it's all it's all been pretty good I have to say good good good oh good do do you feel do you feel like you're part of us I do and it's it's there's kind of like a shift even in the community because now they kind of like really know me yeah it's bizar I don't know what what changed that or maybe it's just because I've been doing it for you know I guess this will close it'll be 5 years um but I I don't know I don't know but they just they're listening they want to do things they want to they you know for the most part they want to be you know within reason like they they want to make the changes and do what they need to do um the only thing just to give you guys a heads up and I'm I don't even know if it would be with you guys but um a lot of the older like the places they don't have a hand snc which you know obviously when it open you know back in the God knows when the' 70s and whatever um it probably wasn't a big deal so when I go in um I do make a note of it but I but you know to ask all these you know couple of these restaurants to do that might be a big deal for them um so I don't know if you want once if any of these places are sold to a different owner or whatever then we can just say hey you know the food code is changed you get you need to bring it up to code so you need a handn or and blah blah blah whatever it is they need but um I just want to give you guys a heads up on that because I'm not sure I have been noting it but I haven't been kind of citing it you know what I'm saying Ln do they all have slop sinks for washing the floor no and they don't have either they don't have slop sinks dick we used to test that years and years ago they had to have a slop syn yeah yeah my feeling you know I Lee and Bill you know I'm just laying this out the the talk I my feeling is that that if you both of these are are health related issues and that if these people are in business they really should be putting some money back into their business it's because they've been there a long time doesn't mean that that they shouldn't comply with things that stop people from getting sick and you know for instance if you if you go out the to uh what's it that pasty free that that uh if you go there they they talk about oh we're going to put some toilets in but they don't put any toilets and I certainly when you look at the people that go through that place to say you know that that you're not going to do any kind of even minor Capital Improvement yet have a really thriving business that's not making a lot of sense to me yeah I don't know what the right I just I don't know you know what I mean like I I've been you know I've seen it before like obviously I've been here doing this for a while but I just I just assume that they had some kind of variance or whatever um with that but with that said I just I don't know and so I don't know where the board stands with that if you want to bring them up the code now or do you you know I I don't know from the little I remember 253 years ago dick you needed a three Bay sink you needed a handwashing sink and you needed a slop sink in a commercial kitchen and that's about all I remember and and I think like Pizza Palace used to be compliant you know the bigger places used to be compliant Pizza Palace does not have a handwashing sink oh they do not have one now wow they they do not yeah they do not that's one of them yeah my Leah we're not hearing from you but if it were me alone I would be saying look at we just if it were ly Lyn saying you know I brought this up with the with the board and the board said there aren't any variances for this and that if we're gonna be in business then we should be those these are safety kind of issues and need to comply now look at it and come up with a plan for when you're going to do it and let them do it if you're looking at money this isn't like something in most I'm guessing that you have to rebuild your whole P I don't know I I I well depends Plumbing setup yeah I think it's all about the plumbing and another one is early mug um they don't have a hand washing sink either MH um so I got to go back there for yeah if they have to Jack if they have to Jackhammer out a concrete floor to put in plumbing lines that's going to be expensive why don't why don't instead of our trying to figure it out why don't we go to them and ask them you know for a plan to do it and let them come back and say this is crazy this is going to cost $20,000 but at least ask them I do you want a funny spot that that says that that if you go in and inspect and you just don't put the violation down and something happens then they come back at everybody and say how come your inspector turned their head it it would a different thing if we if we had a reason and we were dealing with it up you know right up on the surface but but just to say yeah they're old we're not going to enforce it yeah I mean that's fine I like I said I've been noting it I been have been noting it on the on the ACT inspection form so I haven't been ignoring it in that way I just didn't know you know why like I I didn't know why there was you know these places that didn't have a handwashing sink or mop syn like I I I just I'm not sure I didn't know how grany if it like there was they had variances or you know like I said I I like I know that Pizza Palace he kept going on on about like before um how you know they've been in business since 1970s so I was like I don't know what the rules were back in 1970 you know what I mean like I I don't know so I wasn't sure where the board stood on that um but if you what if they had rules that that it was okay to keep your Hamburg at 52 agrees with 19 I know okay no I know I agree I totally agree so so can you give me clear like what exactly do you want me to do do you want me to just have them just explain to them and then have them like have it assess and see how much it's going to cost or how do you you know what I mean dick can we call them into meeting and have a chitchat with them in meeting or or is that too unwieldy I think I think it'll be unwieldly I I would I would do the first thing to say if Lynn goes and says you know we did talk it over with the board and we want to get this thing brought up to to code and we'd like you to give us a plan to do that and you know in the next months give us a plan and let them then come back they may maybe two-thirds of them will say no problem we'll do that I've got a a spot right next to my existing sink you know I can do that okay okay I can do it okay that's the way I do it [Music] and and may instead of coming down with you know with a big hammer and say okay you've got to do this you have to do it within this two weeks and but instead if you say you this is I've been you know from Lynn's standpoint to say you know I've been looking and noting this but I asked the bo for guidance and they said you know this is a safety it really is a health and safety issue and we need to get this brought into compliance why don't you look at this thing and and you know in the next month or so or say in the next month give me a a report on how you'd go about doing that okay I can do that makes sense and then then we'll get we're gonna find out whether it's a big hard thing or if it's it's a it's a little thing but then at least we can we can determine what we're we're doing okay sounds good Lee I don't know what are you thinking um yeah I mean we have to open the conversation I just don't know uh I mean I guess money doesn't matter we're gonna we're going to get some push back we realize that but let's see let's see what yeah let's listen up I mean if it's a I don't know what a I can you take a sink and and make it like two a two section sync you know what I mean is that legal have one side for a mop and one side for your handwashing is that okay or no you can no they have to be separated it's it's got to be completely separated yeah yeah okay and you have to have hooks where wherever the mop syn is that the um the mop has to hang so it doesn't create like it can't stay in the water and um because then you're harboring you're just going to wash the floor with bacteria oh it's got to hang Got Hand Dry as well good okay okay it feel feel warm and fuzzy Lyn to think about somebody washing the the floor oh I know I know I know pouring it in the same sink that they're they're putting their vegetables in oh God hopefully they're throwing it in the toilet but oh my well you don't that you don't know anything I know I know I know I know believe me I'll make a unique tasting cup of coffee all right so I guess I'll go around and do that and uh I said things were going well so I don't think after this they will be going well at all for me but that's all right um okay sounds good I I'll next time we meet I I hopefully will have you know I me I won't have any answers but I at that point I will go around and let everyone know what's going on what the expectation yeah I mean it's it's not a mistake that okay good good to talk to you that way and thank you it's was good to see okay okay thank you all right thank you bye okay the next one bye bye the next one is the the gay property on 125 Maximillion Drive we've got a plumbing and electrical drawinges it's interesting that that when you look at that bill you you kind of not kind of you did at the last meeting say this looks like pretty clearly two two bedrooms that are going into this place but it's got a a it's got a toilet the vanity a shower a washer and dryer and it's certainly in fact one of the rooms is called the wck room if from what I could see I'm just going to you know throw out an opinion and ask for you know let's talk about it your statement bill that it looks like it's who two bedrooms is the way it it should be it should be handled and I if it wasn't obvious there's a concrete floor and there's no Cellar underneath didn't look like there were set up to to put a kitchen in there but but once you got Plumbing on the a wall in between you know that that washer and dryer connection would certainly give you hot water cold water the dump for a sink all the things you'd need to to do a a quick conversion to put a kchen in there but but if you did what you talked about Bill and said well if we're having on two poms then it would you could at least see what the worst we'd do is we'd miss a 110 gallons for p but Lee and Bill what is what are your cost well dick what would you would oh go ahead Lee well can the board simply request that uh the SAS be modified to accept the additional flow yeah we we absolutely what I think we need to do is decide what is what it is that that we're going to request and not you know Bill's statement of saying it's pretty obvious when you look at these two rooms that it is two bedrooms and then if that's the case you certainly if the board says that what it looks like to us then you could do something like say y we want a septic tank there and then the SAS has to be brought up the the speed and once you do that then you go up into the clearly into the nitrogen loading issue and so the system has to be brought up to to Cod if that's what we're going to do what what is the septic system for the existing house currently designed at we'd have to look it's proba colen it have to look it it be either on all of those they're either a four40 you know three three bedrooms plus the the extra or or four bedrooms plus the extra and the lot is a 1acre lot yeah so even if we let him go if we let him go at 110 10 and you take out the Grandy kitchen local requirement they'd be at 440 they'd be compliant with the state oh not if you did two extra bedrooms no if you do two You' have you'd be adding 220 so you'd be adding 220 plus 330 you'd be at 550 right and that'd be problematic for them there's no doubt when you look at what the project is or was was to put a second dwelling unit there well yeah well again that's what the state is pushing now those accessory dwelling units yeah but so Lee what are you thinking um well I I I'm thinking that um we challenging the the paperwork which we should because it seems to be painfully obious uh what the intent is um and my guess is that they and or the developer are going to say that were absolutely misinterpreting what they're doing uh so I don't know how to get to the point without um you know who do we who do we ask to finally just step up to the plate and tell us exactly what they want to do um yeah my feeling is that you do exactly what bill says and say well we can't we can't look at the future and see what they're going to do but we t look at what they're proposing right now and that's putting in two rooms that are potential vedro that's what they're building and then the board could could respond from from that and that trigger that would say okay you've got two bedrooms you're in a different building you have to put a septic Tage and you've got to comply with the the nitrogen you have to get your SAS up to what it's supposed to be and you have to comply with the nitrogen requirement okay we we had to research that nitrogen requirement on this a little more thoroughly dick this one this one I don't even if you what we've done for for other people is said that the extra one0 is in to increase the size of the the SAS it is not to increase the loading on the the water we've said that so it would it would be based on through to trigger the nitrogen loading it would be two bedroom times one p no I'm arguing the other side of the coin on this so say say they argue well we're not in a zone two we're not in a zone two area if we're in a zone two clearly we got to do nitrogen enhancement we don't explicitly meet the four bedrooms per acre Criterion but I'm gonna I'm gonna have to read I'm gonna check some of the guidance on that dick I gotta read I got to refresh my uh my reading of that document it does when I read it it says that if you've had a well- on site that you can only go 440 gallons a day but that's for new that's for that's for new construction well this is certainly new construction yeah I guess they're arguing this is new construction now and that's an interesting point because the the way the state's pushing these adus everybody's going to fall into the same ballpark on this everybody and they're gonna have to fix de setic systems like they're doing at the cake right that's right it's just going to cost people a pile of money that's why the average home price is rapidly approaching a million dollars oh yeah easily although this this is the little part the energy part is the one that's the the crazy thing for what it's doing to H so are these plans that are being presented um I don't have access to them but is the two-bedroom above the garage um believe room in that square footage designed to throw a uh small kitchen in one doesn't it's no longer above the garage now what they've done is they've changed the footprint so the the the two rooms they've got a long one long room and then a smaller room with the then with the toilet and the or the you know bathroom and the garage it's no longer and the garage yeah but it's no longer true story okay it's a one story u a little longer a little wider okay so adding a kitchen or kitchenet in that footprint wouldn't be um out of the realm of possibility no no okay even though it's not on the print at this point in time okay in our case I don't even know that we've been given I don't know that anybody asked us a hard question about this that that I think Alan well I know Alan katawa called me up and said hey are you guys going to do anything are you gonna ask us to do anything for the septic system and we've got a a soft question that came to us and it we don't I'm reading the state document right now dick go go ahead I'll I'll Pine in a minute here yeah my my feeling is maybe the answer that we have to give them right now is yes we're going to require you to do something for the septic system maybe that's the answer that's all the answer we have to give for right now and that because it's not our I don't think it's our job to design this I think that that the The Logical way to to to do this would be to be going back and forth with an engineer who's going to design something and so the answer to to go back to to giving Bill some room to to look in what he thinking but it the a reasonable approach would be to say we've talked about it we are going to require some AEP because you got a toilet there so we're going to require something to the septic system and you've got to get an engineer and have the engineer talk to us about this thing yeah here's the here's the short one paragraph statement it's aggregation of flows in nitrogen loading guidance it's a guidance document it's not policy it's not a regulation it's not a law it's a guidance document that's number one says under Title Five a system serving new construction is subject to nitrogen loading limitation 440 gallons per day per acre in either nitrogen sensitive areas or or areas where the use of both an on-site Waste Disposal system and on-site well is proposed so it's pretty straightforward the only caveat deck is it's guid this is a guidance document so their engineer could argue against enforcing this again it might involve a little bit of mathematics or some other research but the Curious Thing to me is it's a guidance document and not a regulation well if they argue against it bill could the board then request some um water sampling data over the next absolutely absolutely okay I mean once it's occupied once they're rolling with it yeah you you know this this is another case like up up off a bachelor Street if they had shallow Wells clearly we'd have to implement something like that but if they got deep drilled Wells with good seals uh in the in the overburden into the Bedrock if they got good seals there's no reason that uh we should restrict them on this parameter you see I'm saying dick that's yeah but but if it's a shallow well if it's a shallow well down Cape like down the cape fine but again we got deep drilled Wells here that are well sealed but I I don't think this is our spot right now to deal with this I think it's an engineer that should their engineer should be coming in of course and and doing this because we haven't had the question to ask of us right other than the the fact that we're there you know I can look at at it though and say you know if you look at at this soil it's not it's really poor soil and you're in the water table right away when you leave the site so and so in one case you say this is this soil is doing nothing to to do filtration but then you can look at the other and say but look at you're touching you're up against the school that you've got 50 acres that there's never going to be any people on that you're AB budding so when you look at the the density you know you're looking at one house one lot with high density now here's another thing dick this makes it even more complicated they've got credit land they have a credit land program it's kind of like buying uh emission emission credits it says credit land is land that is set aside under a nitrogen loading restriction to compensate for folks that are greater than 440 gallons per acre when required credit land may be a whole parcel a defined P portion of a parcel or several Parcels so they get into this so again the fact that Allen has developed this subdivision it's possible that um some of the land out between his two subdivisions might qualify for this credit so again there's more but I don't think it's our job oh I agree it is I'm just I'm just saying if whoever the engineers should look into this and I hope they do because this is the way you should be doing it yeah because I've have been saying yeah you say that but right next to this place right next to is the reason that this that Allen got in trouble because he's got Wetlands that he crossed that's 50 feet away that's right or 100 feet so so when you look at the the impact of of a high road say the the there's an argument that that it's a worthwhile issue to be talking about but it's not I don't think it's it's our job that the three of us should be doing right now that's that's an engineer that should be talking about this right yeah yeah their engineer should read this particular document it's it's guidelines for titley aggregation of flows of nitrogen loading 310 CMR 15.21 six and this was revised February 2016 but Bobby Sheen or whoever's doing their engineering should take care of this yeah okay I think that should be enough on this topic well answer Colleen to the Allan katawa is the board of health is going to require septic system modifications for this addition for this building okay and he needs to hire an engineer to to talk to us about it yeah okay okay very good our next one um before you move on uh did you see the um coc's do you want to sign either of those that came in today 11 Griswald Circle and 8 West Street the 11 griswell Circle yeah the 11 griswell circle on the COC had a had both the engineer and the the installer signed off and it it included an adill so it complied with all the things we would want if Lee has inspected it I have then then uh I don't have a problem with signing off on that bill what is your thought on it yeah yeah it's fine it's fine so so Ken you can sign off on that one the one on the one on 8 West Street is very different we got a that's a sheet from Jos there are no I I didn't look at it well enough but I didn't see that whether Allen had signed off but Allen normally does an asil as part of this and this is a complicated system it's a big system my feeling is that the documentation that's required for a sign off on a cc wasn't provided dick that 8 West Street how many bedrooms on that property that's uh eight and and how many acres of land one okay so they're in the same boat as kits then what that one is what happened on that one is we said that now that one wasn't an addition yeah that was existing that was an existing this is a straight repair we did have them water on that one and we went through this discussion and we said that that on the repair we weren't going to do that we were going to have them check the water and they passed but iil I didn't see an as built at all that was provided to us no he just dropped this one piece of paper off so you need an as buil from Allen did did Allan sign off on it yes Alan there's a signature on here okay but I don't have an as built what did Lee and Bill what are your thought do you think you should we should just sign off on this or get an as to getting a file I I think we should get an as built for the file yeah I mean I'm I'm I'm 99% sure it was done and maybe not sent in in air but um the point is valid that the as bu's got to be in dick are we doing horizontal as builts or horizontal and vertical as builts that is are the verifying elevation of components Alan well Neil and Greg was certainly just horizontal they just do ties then they're just doing tape ties then okay but Allan typically Allen typically give horizontal and vertical yeah to do it to the T you're supposed to have a vertical vertical control as built as well yeah and then that being said that is of huge importance in the future I've been on enough repairs title fives of houses even within the 3 to 5 year period of construction where they brought in way way way more fill than is on paper with no risers and we're at three feet down looking for covers and distribution boxes um because nothing was mentioned so maybe when we get all you know into the regulation part of life um that is a really good point well that that's true the code say does say that if you have a space and it happens Le after you leave I you know I just did an inspection oh absolutely Wednesday uh last Friday and you know I'm looking at Stone and look at it open a tank and would teas and and you have no idea what happens after you leave none none no control of finished grade whatsoever so I think you're bill I think your point is absolutely well taken that that we want to see as built with elevation that's the way I've always done it on the jobs I've done yep the way to yeah that you're right you're right otherwise you could bring in two feet less fill than specified and no one would know the difference until you do your Title Five inspection when you sell the house yep yep and in reality Lee when I did and Bill when I went in Friday on on Morgan Street that was a Phil system and I didn't I really should have said to the guy that that did it where's your where's your your reference and show me shoot that or at least give me the the elevation from your your benchmark to the top of your tank or something that that let me know that he didn't stick the thing three feet down into the ground further than he was supposed to a quick story there's a there's a town in Franklin County that now requires the engineer the Board of Health to be on site at the same time so that they can shoot the elevations with the Board of Health witnessing the elevation shoot and that's exactly what you're saying because they found that there were people cheating on elevations for quite a while and the only way they could circumvent that is to actually have them do the elev set up the transit while the Board of Health is witnessing well hopefully we won't come to that but that's what they're doing up in this town but you inster certainly could make it so that a guy with a stamp the design who's got the stamp asked to sign off saying that as still saying this is the elevation that's there and then if something's wrong someone go go back at him and say you know you got a stamp and you signed the thing saying this and and you're responsible for this uh especially when when uh they told me that that stone and PE Stone they were he was talking about Friday about PE Stone say would you guys be willing to put fabric instead of PE Stone but he said that that stone and PE Stone right now is going for for $32 a yard at the pit so I don't know what still is worth but you can bet your life that that trying to if it's anywhere near that you know if it's $20 or $25 oh yeah there's a lot of money involved by cheating oh yes oh yes yep they cut a foot off the fill they Sav probably $1,000 dollars or more yeah at least okay yeah just saying so that's what we did we didn't sign off Colleen on on West Street and that should know that we're going to be looking for horizontal and vertical as built okay I think he does those anyway I do too yeah yeah the next one is there's a department review for the planning board for zero philli Circle a special permit now that's the that's the big house that's out in the field between Barton Street and Philip Circle and that one so that I guess the issue is that what was supposed to be an in-law apartment is apparently a completely it's a at least the building inspector says it's a two family house from the the Board of Health standpoint I don't know how how many bedrooms they ultimately ended up with I've been in that house it's a it's a beautiful house but it's huge it's absolutely enormous dick yeah but they when Neil designed that he came back in for a redesign and they added more bedrooms and they added another kitchen and they actually they have two septic tanks on that house yes and a big a big bleach I don't know Lee if you remember inspecting that one I can't CH two tanks a pump chamber and a u and the leech field is elevated I believe oh it's elevated the water table there is like at 28 in yeah in fact that house has no basement dick it's a crawl space slab on grade actually Le if you were going into it you would have gone to the end of Philip Circle and there's a driveway that's a it's it's a big lap that goes I think that the drawing said it was like 28,000 square feet no 280,000 square feet that seems too big but any they could I guess it could be you know could be six or seven acres oh yeah that's that's one of galia's lots dick that is that's a huge lot yeah that's about 7 anre lot it's a big lot yeah and it's a it's a in fact we had Neil had to redo his Ties on the original design because he was using Dimensions that were like 700 feet from something that and trying to look at at who Ties That only had like a 10 degree angle between them and then trying to locate something perpendicular to them and he said you know that doesn't work accuracy's compromised anyways what what happened Lee you would have gone at the end of Philip Circle you know up on the top that top C that and it would have been way down there's like just an opening at the end the filth Circle and you would had to go again the house is five or 600 feet beyond that okay okay I remember going into well on that one yeah but from our stand what do we say about it is I don't have a reason to think that they didn't put the right number of bedrooms in well uh do we have to be concerned about the total number of bedrooms and kitchens based upon Neil's design that's what I'm saying there were a lot of bedrooms and two kitchens so I'm I'm guessing that that Neil was cl to unless we we put if they paint what could we do just say that that we need to have a a statement from the engineer stating that that the septic system is designed for the the proper number of bedrooms and kitchens seems reasonable so what do you think well now did you see there's a um there's a a middle package for a zba variance hearing next week have you read have you read that I did and I started counting bedrooms and it and the scale is pretty small but the Colleen sent a separate packet that she had to scan it because there's so much data there m but we could not say anything but yeah my my gut feeling is it's designed right yeah if Neil if Neil's gonna sign off on it on the COC then that's the way it is yes that's and again I don't I think it's a bit invasive for us to go traing through his house trying to count bed at this point in time well you could count the draw you could count them on the drawings that was the yeah Neil should be aware of it I would think but maybe not the easy way out of it is that to send to the building inspector is just say that the Board of Health requires that that a statement from the engineer that the SE system is designed for the the proposed youth that's all and then that okay yeah that solves the whole problem that's fine that's fine so that's what we'll do Colleen is just send the thing to them saying that the only concern that the Board of Health has is that that we require that the engineer uh certify that the septic system is sized for the intended use of the of the building all right as I said my gut feeling is that that that these guys aren't trying to hide anything that they actually had you know maybe they're trying to trying to do something with the building inspector that but not for us because they definitely changed it MH for us okay so that's that one okay the next one is alen's noting that The Wine House retails food license expires July 1 or expired July 1 do we we certainly don't want them operating without a license do we but he hasn't he hasn't come through with the toilet plan either he said I was checking with the engineer but I haven't heard anything from anybody since I think we're going to end up with a year coming and going at this point um giving the previous comments and attitudes uh of maybe not getting anything out of this organization which is which is a little disturbing we're trying to work and be flexible with this crew but I don't know if they're busy or taking advantage of the board's good nature Lee I cannot dis I can't disagree with you on that yeah I'm just I I fear that we're going to be you know creating a monster here my concern I I have the echo with what you are say both of you are saying one of the things that the tone of the letter that as I recall that when the owner said he was checking with the engineer he Saidi talking with the engineer Neil instead of saying I don't remember our last name being used on that note and and if you were really if you were really actively dealing with an engineer and were close to getting answers and I would have thought that you know if I were dealing with Bobby SK I wouldn't have said GE I'm not talking to the engineer Bob I would be saying I'm talking to Bob Shan and he's getting this information and it just I could be totally wrong but but uh I am concerned but I also I also don't want to mess business of you know it's a good business in town and uh I could support sending a note saying we're concerned that we haven't heard the proposal with the for the septic for the the toilet facilities and we're extending the license to 15th of that's only a month to the first the 1 of September uh oh uhoh what happened I don't even know how that happened I'm gonna did I didn't touch anything I did you did that's actually that's what they call a whiteboard this is a new feature on Zoom it's called whiteboard dick which is actually pretty handy so we can make little sketches and stuff for everybody to see yeah the thing you don't want to do is AI companion what that does is it generates a summary of our meeting believe it or not and that's scary but the Whiteboard function is actually pretty handy anybody can turn it on I guess that's what I did I didn't think you guys could see it so I put it on and I guess anyone can put it on try it just try it I don't even see it it's on the bottom it says participants chat react share AI companion apps whiteboards and more we better not we're gonna be careful we could lose this session if we I read a thing that says post to too now is your Zoom call workplace I do have a thing down at the bottom that says Zoom workplace that but I've got two things open right now on my when I click on when I just touched zoom and one of them is zoom workplace the other is zoom meeting see I'm on Zoom workplace right now well let's not do this right now let's see if we can get I realize that we can do it are we in a spot that that we want to cause problems with with with the wine house and get them in trouble for not having a food license I'm I'm not anxious to do that no I don't want to do that but we want to Pro him along to at least start to prepare his septic per package yeah I think I support that Lee what do you think yeah we were anticipating a working relationship with this Corporation and it appears to be somewhat one-sided right now which is not a good thing um or because if you remember and maybe it doesn't matter but remember we talked about a few meetings ago uh we asked the owner to attend the meeting because of a woman falling right because of inadequate lighting was that he did come and he said uh I don't know why I'm here it's not June 1st yet which I think was a reference to uh the design from Neil but be that as it may he did that absolutely I'm concerned uh uh that we are giving um but not receiving I I recall Neil saying something or someone said something about them putting in a big septic tank and running it as a tight tank for the time being right that's what that's what I they said at at the time but it's it's h but there's more to this that's just the septic part he was going to put toilet part too so um what if what if right now we did it to the 15th of August instead of 1 of September that 15th of August is only six weeks away but but it it gives a different a different length of time than just saying oh we're going to move it from well two months versus six weeks but but uh so it sounds like none of us want to get him in a spot that he's GNA have to to get all sorts of issues trying to comply with with getting a license to sell food we don't want to do that so let's let's put but we also all three of us agree that we're not addressing the toilet thing in the way that the owner said he was going to do it it wasn't our order it was his agreement his proposal so is it your understanding he wants to put in a self-contained Kitchen restaurant kitchen at some point no I don't know that I haven't heard that yeah he's better off just doing the outside food trucks that's that's the best approach for him right now but I I have to believe that since we initially had a June one deadline uh for the design on the engineering firm that us requesting it no later than August 15th could be a walk in the park because it should be done it should have been done by The Firm 28 days ago or more but I don't think I don't I don't think we're asking too much so do we do we say we want the two things happen at the same time that we extend the food license to to August 15 and also say that we want the design and a schedule for the installation by the same day do we do we do that tie them together I could support that for sure Bill well what your thinking so so we're essentially it looks like it that makes it sound like we're leveraging if you don't get the sep the uh the septic plan going we're not going to give you the food license is that our intent oh he's not doing he's not doing the the food license I think is on his time the septic design is on the firm he hired so that shouldn't affect him at all yeah again if if the firm he's hired to do the septic design is too busy go in the phone book and find another firm that's all or come back to us they or come back to us and say I'm gonna I want to give another another thing in in reality what you're really doing this whole design is specifying a two or three th000 a gallon tank with counterweight on top of it that's it that's the engineering part and the and the alarms and it's not even a pump it's not a Lea field it's right put a blacked in the ground not much and if we if we had been writing harder we would have demanded the first week of June um what was promised to us and we didn't ask for a date they gave us a date but we agreed on a date of June one so and the other thing and I'm not I'm going to drop it because it's I'm not picking anybody I just see a repeating pattern like like you say this guy's got a he's got a nice little business Let's Help the guy along but he's got to work with us too it's a two-way a two-way if there was an issue then there there could be some communication from one firm to the board say hey guys I hit a snag I need two more weeks you know I I really want to work with every business in town but I want them to work with the board too that's right two way straight sure answer to your question I think we are leveraging I think what we're I don't like I don't like that it looks like how else how else do you do it I know that's the problem that's the problem you can put them differently yeah yeah separate the dates don't don't make them the same date the same date what if what if you said that by the that we just routinely move the thing to the 1 of September we've extended your license to the 1 of September which is did that and then say we're also saying that by the 15th of August we want to want you to come in with a design and schedule for the for the uh toilet system we do that so what if he doesn't what's going to happen on the 1st of September if he does not have the septic sched no we're gonna have to decide what's gonna happen on the 1 of September all right okay I I think think that's appropriate what do you think Lee well I think um you know us giving another eight-week time slot is is more than reasonable um and it's overwhelming running a business there's a lot of things that you don't see coming and us giving the time hopefully for them to accommodate uh what we need so we can help him accom get his accommodations straightened out for his business and his guests which support his business more than fair what we just said is that we sended a not so we've just extended his his food license to the 1 of September yep but also send a note to Jim saying that where I hate to say ordering them but maybe maybe maybe that's what you have to do is tell them that that your your agreement we should say your agreement with the board was that you were going to provide the board with your plan on dealing with with your toilet by the 1st of June 2024 and you didn't do that and you failed to do that so by the this letter we're ordering you to submit us to submit the board with your plan and time table for implementing your toilet program for the business yeah yeah and if nothing else I hope he takes it in the spirit which is intended and and at least starts to communicate with us as to uh how we can work together going forward bill in terms of he he could come out and say and say okay this is what I'm going to do but Neil can't get the thing done till this date have a note from Neil saying this is what I'm gonna do and maybe he comes out saying you know this thing isn't going to be done until the the middle of November it's by that's when it's going to get actually Implement yeah and at least we'll have something that we can all work with yeah yeah realistically if this gets in the ground by next summer that's a probably a reasonable timetable at this point or by the winter whatever yeah you know he could easily say you know what I really don't want to do this until after my my season you know this season is over that's when I like to install it it's in the in my slow season so it's not disrupting my parking lot and that's right that's right which would be reasonable but it would be something that you know is going to get said that's right um I okay I have to I have to excuse myself last minute notice I apologize um I've got to go take care of something at my son's house um so carry on without me I apologize for the notice okay en Joy say hi to Chris okay yeah bye thank you good night some of these things are are definitely things that three of us need to to be dealing with the the next three are the the use of the the non board and Joint services that whole thing about what we're doing with the fact Lee had said he was he had or was going to use Charlie kenii as a witness for the bards for a 1210 Lane and I I just wanted to discuss how we're doing how we're doing this thing in the in the future we've got the three of three of us are are here and especially especially for septic system type things you got bill with with a stamp he's a soil evaluator a PE stamp he's got all the things that you would be trying to get out of someone outside our boards we have in our boards so I guess he's only $35 an inspection that's right so so in terms of the Town people it's it's a a much a better use of town money but so we're g telling could we carry that for the the next meeting and yes and we'll move it I don't know how we're going to move it up but let's try to and the Board of Health regulations we we need the three of us that that that the Dollar General the four B now we can we can kick around that bill on on how how we're work going to work on that on General yeah well first of all we have to get them to communicate with us that's the number one thing because I think that Tyler fellow I think he was an outside contractor and I'm guessing he didn't get permission from his boss to work with us on the project that was the end of that how do you think it's it's worthwhile Ty seems like if if I were looking for a link if Tyler really is still involved with with their company having having engineers and the board talk with Engineers seems like and that's when I talked to our attorney he also thought that having people talking behind the scenes and getting trying to come up with a plan is better than kicking it up and have lawyers dealing with lawyers right that maybe Colleen maybe you could we could give you an assignment to see if you can get in touch with Tyler Avery and and uh maybe if invite him to one of our meetings either yeah or if he if he says you know I'd rather not do it that way if he talks with with only one of us and and he could talk with with Bill or with me either either one that and just let's see if if we can find out without being in the middle of a meeting and if he's you know if he's got issues if he's got issues with us if he's got issues within his corporation that that if he can help us try to make it go easier and not have it in the middle of a public meeting the the discussions can be somewhat different and then and on top of that if you only have one of us talking with them then it's not whatever is said meting and it's also not speaking for the board you know you can have conversations that that then come back to the board and we can we can adjust them and it but it it definitely gives an opportunity to see what the flavor is that we're we're dealing with as as compared with with this wall that we're we're up against because Tyler definitely the last time we talked with Tyler as a board he certainly seemed like he was willing to be doing something and and there's some that happened something that happened when because Bill I think you were the last one that reached out with a with some Milestone yeah I I think did I meet him in person I think Greg Briggs and I met a representative I think it was actually he Tyler we met him on site two years ago during the summer yeah it was a summer of 22 we met him on site yeah and then we went and then oh that's right then I came up with a Gant diagram for for milestones we presented that we approved it in our meeting I sent him the Gant diagram I believe he said he's good with it and then it just kind of disappeared right we we may find out that that Tyler doesn't work there anymore that he's not his company doesn't do that for Dollar General anymore but if if you can find something out ping that that gives us some direction yeah I'll try I'll try yeah see you know Tyler may heaven forbid something really bad happened to Tyler and he he what whatever any number of things could happen but I guess reaching out is probably the first the first but sure sure um any thoughts on that complaint that I had from the person that went into Dollar General and there was a dog in there I mean is that anything the board I think that's in VI that's in violation of state law dick I believe yeah it is and and it's probably us that has to enforce it but I I have a problem that that with the state saying it's okay to bring your your dog into the place if it's a companion dog if it's and whatever that definition of a companion dog is that they can be sitting next to you in the air airplane they can be in a restaurant with you how exactly does the Board of Health now this this complaint said it's obvious that wasn't this wasn't a companion talk well let's just retrace dick years ago it was a seeing eye dog then it became a service dog and now we're talking companion dogs every dog by definition is someone's companion that's what my my question is right how do you how do you enforce this how if if the state has opened this door so wide how does the board go you know this person said obviously it's not a companion dog well who becomes the judge of what's a companion dog and what's not that's right that's what the manager said she said she she didn't want to ask like people if that was their therapy dog or companion dog or whatever so was the dog leashed or or not leashed uh yeah well I think it probably was leashed but she didn't say anything I don't know because clearly if the dog was a random stray dog and it just wandered into the store with some one it was with the dog then we're gonna throw the dog out yeah yeah no do is's a stray dog but like you say if it's a leash dog it's someone's companion obviously yeah so that what you just said colen is is different than the tone of the of the complaint because the complaint that well that person didn't want didn't care anything about it and and obviously the person did have concern they gave some thoughts saying how do I resolve this and it and right I don't even know what to tell a person what happens that what do they do at Cumberland Farms what do they do what do they do with dressel and I say and then when someone says it's my companion and do you say no it's not I don't think it's a nice enough dog to be a companion how but if they go to the select board meeting and show up at the select board meaning with a dog yeah I don't know I don't know funny story where I grew up in eastern Mass this was the old days in our elementary school all the doors were wide open during the nice weather wide open my German Shepherd would sniff me out walk a mile down the road to sniff me out in the classroom come in the classroom go up a couple flights of stairs and sit next to me in my class this is I was probably in fifth grade at the time and of course my mother used to have to drive up pick the dog up and that would happen Time After Time After Time Of course the Curious Thing is our next door neighbor was the principal of the school so that was interesting that's funny how they're bringing dogs in as as you know soothing animals for they're I think they're trained dogs but I know when my mother was in the nursing home they brought dogs into the nursing home oh yeah it's very good for elderly people absolutely and so I I just have a problem I don't know what to do I don't heaven forbid if the dog bites somebody then we're all in that's a different issue yeah but but I just don't know what the answer I I don't even know if you wanted to if you wanted to send a letter to Dollar General of all the places we can't get them to deal with anything let's let's assume it's not Dollar General let's say this this happens to Cumberland Farm or Duncan do what would you what are you gonna tell them to do I'd scour the Mass general laws to look at look at that particular matter I suspect it's in it's in the Mass General law set I believe somewhere you got to dig it out though because I know they allow service dogs service dogs I think are referenc in the Mass general laws this whole thing with dogs that's a New Concept I've got something we could do we could give Colleen another assignment let her call up Brian you know the Town Council yeah and and say we've got a problem how do we deal with that we've got a complaint luckily it's not a big problem it doesn't this is the the first time that I remember anybody complaining about so it it may be it may be that it's not even worth trying to come up with with a a policy because it happen so seldomly and it's just an evaporative act it just happened and disappeared and it's not going to happen for the next 12 years and maybe the answer to get back to that person is that the board is confused about it we're g to hope that that it's one of these things that that that to the best of our knowledge we've never had another complaint about it it's possible that this was a companion a legal Companion Animal and it it may never happen again and if it does we're gonna have to go we'll have to address it if it happens again or it happens more frequently what do you think though yeah I'm looking at the Mass general laws listen to this one chapters 272 section 98 a physically handicapped person with dog guides public places or conveyances penalties for denying accommodation and it's got oh boy yeah but that's for physically handic yeah yeah and I'm looking at now they've got federal laws too yeah this whole concept of the companion dog that's that's kind of a new thing just I'm my wife is telling me I've got a problem here too so I think let's call at the night sounds good dick all right okay thank you hey hey one thing dick before we quit here I'm going to put this whiteboard on and let's see what this does so I'm going to use exist white board now what does this you do anything with it you see the white oh here we go so yeah I see your name going across the screen all right so now I can testing and you just hped onto it B that's all you did just now so you can oh I can we could draw a little some drawing yeah we can do some draw a septic design or something or whatever else I'll bet you I'll bet you can import things with this oh yeah this is a pretty powerful tool I can see that yeah yeah there's quite a bit and then of course you just close it out you hit the red button and you close it out oh there dick did you just type your name in no but you know what I just move I I just moved the pencil so that oh okay Al so we can all we anybody can do this yeah of course yeah it says two people are following you okay so so all three all four of us whoever's here can participate this is this actually a pretty handy tool for certain things There's a sticky note I'm just trying to see if we can yeah the pencil maybe up top here you can you can there's a thing that says more oh yeah there's the sticky note and then you can probably voting yeah in the sticky note we can make comments comment export it's funny you can export but it doesn't say import I think this is designed for in meeting in our meeting essentially having a white board in our meeting this is just like a real time thing this is pretty this isy pretty good though it really is oh what's this laser pointer oh I get here's the laser pointer okay but it doesn't unless we can find a way to get stuff in here to look at it oh there's export if you go to the um yeah but that's export but not import oh let me take a look hold on so this stuff over on the left yeah did you yeah one at the bottom okay grab mini map I don't know more tools frame templates mind map table chart yeah obviously this will take a few minutes to oh I see you can put some sort of graph in there okay I'm gonna I'm gonna send us all home gives us something else to do okay thank you thanks Colleen enjoy welcome good night by now