[Music] we could go and and and start then the first one so I don't forget how about the the minutes for April 9th are we okay with those yes I I have no issue at all and I am too and Bill was that the one you weren't at that or you were yeah yeah I wasn't there dick so I'll abstain I wasn't I had conservation that night okay so Colleen said since Lee and I both agree with it then we'll accept those minutes okay um before we we go into with there are three septic designs um the first one is is Allan Weiss it's 559 ammer road that is if you're coming from south Headley Center that I think is the last house before on the right before you turn into aldri Street it is a it is a 100 by 100 lot but the back of the lot really like 15 feet or 20 feet from the house drops down at about a 45 degree or steeper angle down to to Bachelor Brook it's a three-bedroom house the complete system the fees paid the review is complete it's it's where the level part of the lot is cleared it's small a quarter acre U Allan was fixing it on the drawing that that he's got it listed as 6.8 Acres uh level along the street slopes very sleep steeply down to the east to the rear to the brook deep Sands no groundwater a water table got City water very little area that prevents the use of trenches here theu are the The Limited area the very very steep uh B to the rear small setback from the street the house is pretty close to the the road the design that Allan has is a due to the very steep slope the system some kind of system right now is in the back and the system move from the the rear to the the front uh Allan was really concerned about working back there design is for500 gallon two compartment septic tank with no Outlet filter the SAS is one Le tank Gallery so it's 3 350 gallon Lea trenches in the it's a it forms basically a bed that's 10 feet by 40 feet with 24 inch effective depth there are there is no debox goes straight out from the tank no vents bill is not required he's got 444 gallons a day provided versus 440 needed the reserve area isn't provided 5 foot water table separation is provided the house Plumbing must be relocated from the rear to the front the existing what Allen doing is rather than try to work back there and take a chance at collapsing the bank or going into the foundation he existing septic pack is going to be pumped and and filled with uh you call it flow fill it's it's a Concrete loose concrete um an issue that he's got 5 foot separation SAS separation from the front lot line uh at the street to the SAS and a 10 foot separation to the foundation and he thinks that he's probably going to have to sleeve the the water the drinking water line coming in the discussion that Allan and I had about similar houses where that we we put plastic along the foundation when it's it's a 10- foot separation and uh Allan is just really afraid to try to dig in this this really loose loose van up against the foundation and the street and and so his his feeling is this sand is so coarse that he's not g to have any horizontal flow of that water it's just going to go right down straight down into the around then I'm guessing it could be correct the issues are the trench permit the plumbing permits required uh then to talk about the truck spot line separation and the foundation separation so let's open to Lee and and Bill kind of a nasty little spot dick why is he not using an effluent filter if he's only have only has one trench I don't know that we can ask him that yeah why don't we recommend he put an effluent filter in there okay good protection Lee what are your thoughts um do we know um or does alen know what dimensions that a State Highway has as far as um onto the adjacent property well I I think on his drawing let me see it he soed the lot line and I can't tell you whether he's got pins let me let me see if I can find it because it doesn't he's got the the uh of course I'm having trouble finding that particular drawing that's yeah sometimes those Highway those Highway rideways encroach on the people's property fairly significantly from time to time he's he's definitely got circle stone but he does not on his drawing yeah you want at a five foot separation he really he needs survey right well that's what I'm thinking dick if it's tight sneakers it might be prudent to have a land surveyor go out there and figure out what's really going on yeah well I just don't want the um um I just don't want contractor any contractor uh to get pinched for working on state um potential State Property yeah that's right without their knowledge without you know they might say fine but at least we need to to notify you we got to find out what's going on before we jump on this one okay so we've got both we've got the esence filter and the the survey that's good yep okay good good good call there Lee okay the the next one is also Allen Weiss this is lot 4A uh this LEF flam property on East Street this is in front of the the uh solar farm and the new construction three-bedroom house complete system fee is paid uh at this point it's mainly a cleared lot one acre lot slope down diagonally so if you're looking at the house it's diagonal going from the left front corner to the back right corner U deep fine fan we've got 30 in and 36 Ines to oxides the issues are shallow to groundwater and and the slope the design is for a 1500 gallon two compartment tank with no Outlet filter he at three 3 foot by 40 foot by 12 inch effective depth ter trenches fill is required again 444 gallons provided versus 440 needed Reserve area between and adjacent to the trenches youve Got 5 foot water table separation ballast is not required for the septic tank the SAS and septic tank separation to the wetlands and Wells is more than 100 fet the well is more than H receed from any septic systems that for discussion items or French permits and fill requirements what are our thoughts here dick that lot was reconfigured wasn't it I don't know that that one been reconfigured because this one it's how far is the house from East Street is within 100 feet of East Street uh I don't think so I think it's further than that but uh okay because I know I think Dakota Richards was involved with that one let me take a quick a quick look at this one that one so I'm looking at the street just going back from the the well the well looks like it's about 50 feet off the street and then the from the well to the house looks like it's about 70 feet so I would guess the front of this house is about 120 feet from the stre okay so that was re okay okay because St Devin stamborski house is to the South and the East I believe so this is a one that's well under construction that's right yeah it's actually done that house is completed okay this is another okay I know the property then that's fine no worries there you got a big system that's fine and Lee how about with you yeah I don't see uh any issue here at all so that one is is the colen will be approved with French permit requirement and fil requirement okay third third one is Bob Shen one chape street this one is is if you're if you're going from Carver Street and take a left on on H I guess I said it was school street but it's a chabe street yeah School Street's way further down but this is chabe Street and this one would be the last of the shoski Lots on the on the right it's actually a a State lot so within back of the other houses it AB buts the the wetlands are on the on the north of that lot yeah yeah new construction uh it's designed for four bedroom house even though the the owner is is uh only putting three in but we had a a discussion about putting in he's got a an unfinished bonus room so they decided just build it for four the uh a complete system the fee is paid the design is complete it's a cleared 2.2 acre lot level deep Sands no groundwater water table Wetlands to the north the well is installed that's the one that we let the W go in the issue oh yeah is is the Wetland the design is for a 1500 gallon two compartment tank without an outlift filter 33 a 3 foot by 36 uh foot long by 24 inch effective trenches still isn't required 559 gallons a day are provided versus 550 required Reserve areas provided between an adjacent to the trenches 5 foot water table separation this a really straightforward system SAS and septic tank separations of wetland and well is more than 100 fet the well is more than 100 ft from any septic systems and the the only discussion here is the trench T are great board as long as they put it where it is it's it's outside the 100 foot Wetland suffer what kind of discussion do we have on that one I can't uh I can't see anything here uh of concern dick have have Bobby sent it to Kathy Leonard just for a sign off on conservation on the conservation end shouldn't be a problem then let's make sure we we say that yeah now they're supposed to have to sign off on that anyways on New on new construction that they can't get the building permit without conservation sign on yeah that's the way it's supposed to be now that we have Damen Cody and I had a chat with him last week I think he's on board when we had the two-part time guys things were kind of uh wishy-washy there for some time but we've got a full-time guy now so I think we'll get back to the same protocol that we had when Greg Brigg was on board okay which is good yeah gentlemen gentlemen this is Bob Sheen uh regarding this Lot bill the Conservation Commission has already approved this lot a number of of months ago okay if you could just just send me the correspondence on that Bobby so I can just double check that thank you okay I will do that Sor interrupt here okay no worries fine that's what we were talking about because I when your because we did approve it Bob and uh subject just to the the trench permit requirement and now bill is just asked that you send them the the details so I will have Allen sure alen has that correspondence y yep that'll be great thank you just double just trying to double check here Bob Bob thank you good to hear you hope you're well thanks Bob okay nice hearing from you guys uh take care have everybody have a good evening thank thank you thank you bye bye bye bye it looks like Lyn is here uh no that Lynn's not coming that's not okay so that's so we'll keep going then uh so the next one we've got Bobby done already so we've got Alan Weiss who's not here yet um we've got uh let's go then the the issues that we can go through I've got Colleen's time sheet for April 20th the standard 70 hours uh for the two week period are we okay with that yeah I'm good dick thank you okay the as I was looking for stuff for for the seus system I lost our I had everything in order and I've lost our our money turnover oh here it is got it our money turn turn over the payments to the treasurer for this meeting $2,285 of that we got $1,575 for board of health permits we about 260 for Board of Health licenses 450 for Board of Health fees and that's it and that totals the $2,285 are we okay with that I'm good with that dick thank you I am too Colleen so that's approved okay the next one that that we have um I guess we're gonna have to wait on Bill Lincoln until he comes in for for an installers permit we'll have to come back to that one um the next one we have is the temporary food license for the Church of Christ um tag sale food booth on the colum on the common like May 25th are we okay with that one women of Church of Christ now this one would be one that Lynn has to inspect Yes she'll yeah she usually goes to that one y Bill and Lee are we okay with this one yeah I'm good yes I thank you okay the next one is retail food sales at The Wine House um a year a yearly one are we are we okay with that it's interesting though I will say we've had a complaint with with this about being dark and not being able to get to the toilets and being dangerous outside yeah Colleen did we have some someone wrote something a a patron of that facility wrote a letter to us uh yes she called she called me and she I think uh well she was on a c using a cane so it was harder for her to get around and she said where the um sany cans were uh you well she was very unhappy that there were just Sandy cans and not in a regular bathroom but she had to go outside in the dark and it wasn't very well lit she said it wasn't a a long walk but it just wasn't lit up uh very well and to use the sany can so yeah that's what her complaint was you know what I see dick driving by there is I see two Santa can one I believe has the sink one does not have the sink and and what's Jim's schedule in putting in a Lech field there has he submitted a design yet no he hasn't ien M my suggestion right now would be to approve the retail food sales permit so he's he's in compliance but they ask Jim to come in our next meeting again he was going to get back to us now that we've got people that are that that well two things happening the scope of the operation is going up and we've got a complaint yeah what do you Bill what do you think and Lee what was the complaint was it was it Americans with Disability Act related or not Colleen well she said she was using a cane and it was hard for her to get around um and so she was not happy that she had to walk outside and it was rather dark um getting to the the San can yeah yeah Jim's got to be very careful there dick in my opinion Jim's got to show significant progress toward putting in a leech field in a in a regular toilet system at that facility before he gets too many more complaints because he can really get into trouble with the state on this so do we do no no i' i' I'd continue him at this point but bring him in next meeting and he's gotta get yeah he's got to get cracking he's got to do a perk test and get cracking on this plan well he structure right wasn't he talking about I think I think You' talked to him he said he was going to get back to us now we've got the complaint and we've just started to increase the scope of the operation that certainly on a you know when we talk to him I it seems reasonable that if he's going to be operating when it's dark it has to be lit and if it's an issue with foing that's terrible let them put some wooden platforms in or something that that he can do things immediately to fix some of it and then get get wor working on the the bigger problem yeah yeah his are his hours such that in the summer months he'll be only open during daylight hours or will he be open during uh Darkness I don't know that you plus I think he's increased his parking lot significantly from what I could see he could he can probably carry a 100 cars in that parking lot right now um are we going to get back to this are we going to approve the retail food sales and let Len inspect this um yes my only concern is that the retail food um comes out of an approved Source in other words I don't want to see um in my way of thinking I don't want to see Saran Wrap um surrounding um somebody's homemade brownies or cupcakes or cookies or whatever right that just say 50 cents and doesn't say anything else about eights ingredients um you know where I'm coming from on this thing but he's got he's got he's got those food trucks coming in dick are all the food trucks approved so far I think they've been approved but we've got another one tonight to talk about but but this one I even I thought I saw I don't have it with me but I thought somewhere on the permit on this one said whoopy pies and something else which sounds like the same woman that we already talked about saying unless this is a certified kitchen with ingredients and and this thing can't be sold and now all of a sudden it shows up here but but my hope Le is that Lynn is our is our mechanism to look at this to find out if he's if he's in compliance with the regulation yes they they got that information about the labeling and whatnot um and he said yes he was getting this license because she's already been in there on the food establishment license um and now with this license he was getting it so that he could offer those cookies and whoopie pies but the labeling instructions and everything went out to to them on on that so well yeah I mean there is there is a co-responsibility on the part of the vendor uh to adhere to the regulations and our requests not give us a uh the blind di that I did not know or or I forgot I hope that's not what we're gonna we're heading into uh because if it is it's not going to be a good um working relationship with any business not just this one anybody you have to do it right from the beginning or they should not be doing it um at all yeah so in terms of this one are we going to are we going to Grant this license if we don't Grant it then we've got we cause lots of troubles my suggest how long are we granting it forck how many months are we granting this license is for the year well does it make sense not to Grant it for a year just grant it for a shorter period of time no I'm I'm just afraid I'm just afraid that we're not going to get this septic system ironed out in the in a uh timely fashion okay good point yep yeah because if we Grant it for a year then they can kind of drag their feet for another year on the septic system then Jim's going to get even more I don't want Jim to get complaints on this on this santaan stuff and PE people are not going to like this believe me well the people complaining about the sany cans and then and then Lynn or us um eventually having um mislabeled products for sale it's a it's a bad combination of non-compliance yeah but we have to have some leverage over we want to do this to July 1st just so we get everything settled out we don't have to we don't have to charge them again that's right if we extend it but we we do this as a a temporary to July 1 that that'll be fine I'd be fine with that how about what do you think Lee no no yeah I mean I want to work with everybody here to have everybody uh be success uccessful and have a good relationship um and uh absolutely I'm I think the July one midpoint scorecard is reasonable for all parties concerned and in between then and now we're going to hear from uh the owner as well as Lynn to see what we're going into and we need to have that discussion in two weeks about the facilities for the patrons and safety is is right that's what we're gonna do Colleen that's right we're g we all agree it's going to be July 1st the temporary permit okay so he's not all concerned when we extend this for the rest of the year we won't ask him for another fee that's right that's good that's good so now our time we've got uh Allan Allan we we uh approved the the uh the flam lot and that was just subject to the trench perment and the bill requirement Alan I should have acknowledged that you're here hello Alan how are you maybe Alan isn't here I'm here maybe he's he's walking he's walking yeah I had to go check something in the oven I'm fine okay so I just said that we approved the lot one uh excuse me 4 a laflam and that was subject the French the French permit and the fill requirement the one on we had two issues on 559 ammer Road one of them is Bill suggested that that given that whole situation that that we'd like you to require an influent filter on the tank that's not a problem and the next one Li brought up with the with the five foot offset from the front line to the SAS is that lot are those bounds that you've got shown on your drawing are those fixed the their pins or is this LP need to be surveyed no this was surveyed this was taken from survey from a registered land surveyor um it it is pinned it was done by Randy eer and uh yeah it is pinned so it is it is Lee does that meet your concern well yeah I mean I just I thought for whatever reason I thought State highways had a lot of um ownership on both sides of Street you know from Center Line I thought they were yeah yeah yeah they typically do they typically encroach on people's property on state highways that's that's a typical situation yes so um there is no pavement of course um within the pins of this property um this is a registered um survey done by for Mrs Watson um the uh payment is something 10 or 15 feet beyond that property line it is a registered surveyed La then then we should be safe right well well again on 116 which is a state highway the the the state the state work Zone typically extends on the people's property however the likelihood of them in doing any other work inside of the existing pavement is unlikely but it could happen but that's something you got to ask Ed chapalain about or or or iser that kind of gets into a sticky point with these uh with these work zones yeah in this case there's no natural gas there's no drainage piping there's no nothing in that Corridor are there any shrubs are there any shrubs bordering the the property line Al no the hydrants are on the other side of the street I yeah yeah okay so so the edge your Le field to the property line is shown how many feet five feet that's right five feet okay another 10 or 15 feet you know beyond that maybe even 20 I actually I don't have edge of pavement but yeah yeah well only thing I can recommend is make sure the Lee field is on this person's property oh no question yeah that's why I went with a registered land surve okay okay okay so it looks like what we we are going to require though Allen is for you to put the the fent filter no so that that gets you out of here Allan you you want to get rid of me already I'm doing one thing just because he asked um I'm I'm on Google Earth right now and I'm looking at the edge of the house to Pavement which is 40 feet uh when I look at the edge of the house to the yeah it's 15 feet beyond the property line to the edge of payment thank you okay Al all right good night good to see you thanks Al all the best thank you our next appointment is is Neil jackon and Neil is here uh Neil you are gonna come back with with something that that for 15 griswell Circle that you going to put some treatment system in and come up with a contract and something that that and and A Sundown Clause to it right so um wobin well uh installed up a um oh God I can't even think of the name right now a reverse osmosis he yeah he he installed an UltraViolet system to to uh treat for bacteria so it gives you 724 365 treatment on the water and he tested the water a few days after let's see he tested it on 411 and it came back absent for bacteria and ecoli okay so Neil prior to the UV system it came back positive it came back POS for bacteria not for eoli dick you you know how you and I feel about UV systems absolutely the Neil is not what Neil just told us is not at all what he went all right with an assignment he was supposed to come back with a operating and maintenance schedule a testing program to make sure that the system continues to work uh then it's going and have a a period where it won't go beyond so this is this is supposed to be something that says we're really making sure this continues to work because it's a it's an add-on device that requires it to be functional to be safe and it's it's not something that that other than testing you can't tell whether it's working or not right this is Neil is supposed to this is not an easy kind of fix this is kind of a as Neil said this was something to try to let the the owners go a little while before they had to put the new well in and that they were supposed to say that that they understood that this was going to be a this is a Sundown part of this project that says it's going to go out for three years or one year and if the house sells they are going to immediately replace the well with a deep well so there's a whole bunch of pieces that need to go together that are Way Beyond saying oh yeah I put it in I checked it two days later and we're all right so now does the board I mean Bill indicated the board has issues with the UV systems well well UV systems are very they're very touchy Neil if you have fogged tubes if there's a problem with the with the tube itself you got to be very careful with those systems okay okay yeah I'm just wondering I'm just wondering you know the problem with the RO system is you put an RO system and you don't generate that much water you only generate a couple gallons a day that's the problem right boy so I guess I I need guidance by the by the board what what are you looking for I mean gave you that guidance Neil we and I just summarize it here you but a system in place that that works a maintenance and and preventive maintenance and testing so there's a a maintenance progam contract that's got to be in there to maintain this thing a testing program that says you're going to make sure it it keeps working and then there's got to be something that says this is only going to go for a certain length of of time that they we agree that the the Well's going to be replaced for a deep well and there'll be a written agreement saying if the house changes hands that a the well deep well gets in those are the the same things we talked to you about the last time right but so could you give me guidance on the timelines you're looking for I mean I could be looking at the equipment than saying that this is how oh the the testing yeah how many how many month interval dick do you want every three months the the manufacturer ought to be coming back saying this is the the proposal to make sure this thing keeps running so we get this thing thrown back onto the the manufacturer a document that says oh yeah I'm selling you this thing and this is what I'm telling you it's going to do and this is what you have to do to make sure it keeps working and then when it doesn't work and someone gets sick then you can go back and you can sue that that company and Sue the installer saying look it you guys did this and you said it was going to work and it didn't and someone got sick so they should be the ones that are telling you not this is not the the Board of Health that tells you that other than the Board of Health says you need that kind of thing because as Bill just pointed out this is not a bulletproof forever kind of installation this is not a this is not a root cause fix of solving this problem okay and as far as testing I mean I I'll have quab and well come up with a maintenance agreement maintenance and but testing what type of intervals I mean obviously probably uh shorter intervals to begin with and then longer periods if everything's okay but again you should be going back to the manufacturer and the manufacturer should be saying this is what you should do with our equipment okay so they they they will say what the testing intervals would be they should be able to say that that if you test at this rate you should be safe with our equipment okay but it has to be from them they have to this is this is not the kind of thing that you say oh Quin did it and they put it in because quin's not an expert in this thing no I oh I know I mean they they're probably an expert in putting them in but you're right as far as insiration I'm sure you know you and I would do Neil I talk to D water supply not Wastewater but water supply at D and they'll give you some guidance okay I don't know who's in water supply these days they keep moving people around but if you talk to D water supply tell them what you're doing they'll give you some they'll give you a guidance document okay perfect okay okay okay so as of right now they have clean water but I I do that they have to do something so yeah you got to be you gotta lot of TLC with those systems right okay and then once once we have that documentation then you're going to come up with a basic Ally when you want a new well I mean think they're going to need a little bit of time if they're spending $25,000 or whatever on a septic that they're going to need a little time to uh come up with funding for the wealth that's not that's we don't know that we we just don't know we don't have any idea what what the finances are we don't have anything that that we just don't know okay so so kind of thing that would be nice what Lee I'm sorry to interrupt what's the longevity of a system like that three years four years I would say longer than that if it's if it's maintained properly yeah yeah if you maintain it it you you might have to change the tube every once in a while and clean things yeah it would go on in in perpetuity but you got to maintain it's like anything else it needs maintenance right okay they got so they've got this thing that they're going to be testing and spending money on it and it would be nice if the homeowner when when you looked at this Neil and and explained to them this is the board's looking this at this as a Band-Aid fix okay yeah and and we want to make it safe but it's still a Band-Aid fix this is not a root plus six and if they were to come back and say you know we really need three years if we can make this thing run for three years we'll live with with this pain in the neck operation but we'd like to get three years out of it they would then in effect set their own time frame instead of the Board of Health doing that okay that's that's fair that's a good idea yeah okay good okay so in the meantime can they put in their septic system I mean they're pumping it pretty regularly so I mean they have again it's a Band-Aid but they've addressed the water issue my feeling would be that that the well the well is not impacting the septic system that we should be dealing with the health problem associated with the septic system and that and the even though the well is part of that's where it all shows up as a as a problem but they ought to be able to fix their health problem Lee and Phil what do you think well yes absolutely bill I you look Frozen there yeah no no no no no have them let's do the Le field with the Proviso that he puts the UV system in with the appropriate safeguards that's all right okay okay yeah the UV systems in so part the well part is be careful because you just said something that that gave Neil permission to do something no no but but but the septic the septic the septic system is contingent upon the well in the The Well treatment the water treatment system with the appropriate monitoring schedule so it's all tied together everything's tied together yeah but Neil is asking to get the septic system in and my feeling would be is that it's regardless of the solution that we Implement with the well the septic system is the same septic system repair so why can't we let him fix the now we can from our standpoint if you're trying to put some teeth into on our end of it we cannot give the certificate of compliance for the septic system we can hold that up that's right until until the well is done that's right that's right we can let them deal with their health issues that's right right UV system is already in yeah the UV systems in and they're pumping every every two weeks so it's I mean it's not not leeching at all so very very very little so they they can we need the maintenance agreement before they can install we have to Lee and bills we have to again I my feeling would be hold them up on the certificate of compliance side that's right but let them get the the system in if if if we were in a spot that said wait a second that well if we put a new well in it's going to be too close to the lead field and therefore we're putting in the wrong lead field that's a that's a different story then you can't move forward until you resolve the well but if if the well is not going to impact the the septic system then I don't see a reason that we can't let that happen Le and B and just not not approve it until it it's so so Neil after the leech fields in will you be able to maintain 100 foot horizontal separation with a new drilled well at a later date absolutely yeah okay yeah absolutely it could come it go right in the same vicinity as the present well okay which has 100 foot separation from from all the other septics on the street also okay Lee what are you thinking well between between that information of having the separation um that bill just pointed out and getting the maintenance agreement from the manufacturer uh Andor D then yeah yeah we get the septic system put in which is bad and um tag that into the paperwork once the agreement is put in place with whoever does the testing we get what we need to in a couple of weeks I'm thinking that's what we're all looking at right now Neil just jog my memory what in essence in in 10 words or less what does the septic system consist of the present system no no the one you're going to be building the the leech field you're going to be building h I think this was a bed let me just pull it out quick pretty sure it was oh um no it was 340 foot uh trenches okay so no nitrogen reduction nope okay no but it also has a reserve test the test the water bill for nitrogen and there's none in it no it's 1% of the allowable okay but but we have bacteria right yes so so the qu the the dumb question is how far are the neighbors from this current Le field neighbors's Wells are over 100 feet but but this the homeowner's well is also 100 feet away yes yeah yeah so so dick the question I ask is how do we know that the neighbors Wells aren't contaminated we don't and that's what when we've had this discussion saying this this thing with the nitrogen it's so screwed up with the state we said we're gonna we're not going to go after it but what we're going to do is test test the wells and then in reality if you look at at this property the this particular property on that side which is the I'll call it the north side of of gridwall Terrace or gridwall Circle that this one the system is away from the houses there are no the back the back lot line of this one goes against the what's headed towards the Wetland so if you if you look at the water table gradient there it should be moving to the north away from everybody's hous so but but why why is this person's well contaminated with bacteria we don't know what the reason is that's what the well well you know you know my thought is and it's kind of a backward backwards logic is that the nitrogen reduction system would also provide additional safeguards against bacterial contamination as well because of the additional treatment but yeah but we don't know that there's something in the ground this a shallow well it's oh I know could it could be it could be some rodents in the well head yep absolutely but we went through this thing till and as a board we went from saying we're going to deal with this nitrogen uh thing on repairs and we said it was it was just impossible to go after and the and the state was not being very clear yeah what they were doing and and that's why in fact you came up with this the suggestion that we look and see if the well was just look and see if this well was being contaminated with the nitrogen now are there other projects on griswell Circle any set any other repairs coming up or have have come up in the last 6 months yeah we well two houses down we just did one at 11 okay did you test their well for bacteria well they actually ended up putting in another well because I think it was a point well and it was Rusty so they were getting brown Water okay so because they had they had a family move in and before that it was one one older woman so she wasn't using lot dick I'm just thinking I'm just thinking these shallow Wells on that street might be a big problem for everybody I think they are that's why when we talked about this thing we said this is a Band-Aid and it's not what we should be be dealing with but but uh that's why putting something that that's got a timeline that says okay at at the end of three years this we'll put all this this thing in place that that quite frankly should be kind of a pain in the neck to make sure you're safe this is this is not a you know pay your price once and say it's good forever we know it's not and how how many homes are in this neighborhood a dozen well I think more than that but say 20 I I just hope others with shallow Wells aren't drinking bacteria Laden water that's the concern I have unless you're going to go and force everybody with a a private well to get their water tested and and we yeah we well we don't have any money for that the town doesn't have money for that that's the problem and water is according to the state water is your responsibility on your and your house you're responsible for your water yeah would it not make sense to at least notify the others on the street that you would recommend that they get their water tested even though they don't but at least recommend to them we certainly we we's your thought mine is that that we we've got information that and it's it's not hard information but we've got information from one of the the water from Clavin that said that after the rains last year they were getting especially shallow Wells were getting contaminated and maybe that it is prudent for us to to tell people on on that street that you live in a on a street with with small lots and and you know Den use and that we've got some information from last year that the rain could be contaminating shallow Wells and we've got one lot that the data says that the the water was contaminated with bacteria we suggest that it would be prudent to to tap yeah yeah because Neil that UV system is short money those are not expensive yeah I think it was like $2500 well yeah well that's retail I think I think wholesale they're a lot less than that but the point is the point is that you're right if we send them a letter again a lot of these people are probably totally ignorant of this fact they're probably stock Brokers or or uh faculty members or something up there but again if if if we at least say by the way you might want to have your water tested if they choose not to that's fine but at least it buys them you might want to get your water tested and if they do for 2500 bucks they can get a UV system to hold them over for a few years I think it's just good it's just good policy on our our end yeah do we I don't know no yeah we certainly could could look at you could look at this this uh development because they're all kind of in the same situation physically right do you do we then anybody that we know or come up up against or up encounter not against but encounter with a a shallow well do we send them the same letter and say we advise you to do that but for sure this whole neighborhood is in the same thing little Lots little Lots with shallow wells in sand that don't filter very well that's right that's right so Colleen can you give a draft a but I can or Bill can why don't we have Bill draft the letter with you offline and and you can send it out okay I can I can work with Colleen on that dick that's fine thanks is that Lee is that what you feel too absolutely okay so we do that all right your uh 7:40 appointment is waiting so you know okay Mr Lincoln speaking okay I'm I'm dick Bader we've got Bill saheen and le la and on every new installer that comes to work in the town we we make it a point of talking to them beforehand and and try to understand your credentials and experience and and try to have you understand the a little bit about the Board of Health and our relationship with with you as a a person with a a license and and how you support the people that that we're here to protect so absolutely do you have a a business yes yep no I have a small excavation business that um me and my father do know we're just small and just two of us and I've got some retired guys that give me a help every once in a while when when I need it what kind of equipment do you own uh we have a we have a small single axle dump truck and we got a pc50 excavator and we actually uh just upgraded we had a Hatachi 120 and we ended up trading in and we're getting a cabelo 75 it should be here any day now so that's exciting got a roller how long have you how long have you been well first of all do you install septic system yeah um this is uh we're going on the second year of the business uh me and my father been doing a lot of side work growing up and and it was just time to go try something I've been bugging him for years and years and and um finally he was in a position where he's like yeah let's go go try it kid so so we're out there we're out there doing it on our own now um but yeah no we've we've installed some septic systems I mean I've probably installed well I don't know six seven systems and he's got a he's got a bunch of them under his belt he's been doing it a while he was actually a uh a union operator for 98 before before giving me a hand so how many system do you think he installed that he was responsible for installing um I'd say probably a dozen or so lot not lots and lots of no no we yeah no we we try I mean you know we kind of we're all over the place with with what we do is as far as you know complete sites for for new homes and and doing a lot of small stuff CTS and stuff like that you know whatever we you know doing it on the side it doesn't leave a whole lot of time to do a ton of jobs a year you know but uh but we've done we've done we've done our share now what communities have you what communities have you operated in Mr Lincoln um so we're out of cumington um did uh did my own in cumington and we do a lot of work in Berkshire County uh a couple in chesher Adams North Adams Clarksburg um we use we do a lot of work on that side of the hill but we seem to be gravitating towards the the little bit easier digging nicer yeah yeah because I the towns you mentioned it's all Rocky terrain from what I can recall yes it is now my my house that we built a couple years ago um um it's it's on a it's on Frost walls with a heated sled because there was no chance to get a basement there so what do a lot of Rock Ledge what do you use to shoot Graves uh we have a David White laser um and actually we've been having troubles with the thing shutting off on us so I we picked up a new Milwaukee one we're going to try it out because it's nice to have all the same batteries you know um but we uh the David White's been a very good l laser we're going to we're actually sending it out to get fixed because we like it so much so um they don't they don't they must have got out of the market because I can't seem to find one anywhere online David White yeah when you where did you learn to read PR um from my father and and he's he's a pretty sharp man you know he's been doing it a long time um but yeah no just just was he when you said he was doing it a long time what was he doing a long time that he was using friend uh what do you mean as like septic system well you said he's been doing it a long time did he did he run jobs did he did he you know yeah so he he well he worked he worked a lot with um a a gentleman that he worked with at Warner Brothers and he was he was kind of his go-to guy as in you know the guy was all over the place you know running around with his head cut off trying to get all the laborers to do their things and he'd hand him a set of prints I I can remember all growing up um he was uh we'd be riding around the pick up when there's a set of prints on the dash because because the foran would actually trust him with a set you know and he's what kind of PRS of what um I don't know rebuilding roads putting they I remember there was big wash out I don't know how long ago 10 12 years ago now rebuilding rebuilding the roads and that and uh catch basins and you know just drawings of of yeah what do you do so so your dad was a member of Local 98 yes he was yeah was still a member and what was his what was his position at 98 was he an operating engine engineer or or labor he was an operating he was an operating engineer correct okay do Phil when you got a a drawing and you start on a job and you start in there and you you you start digging and you find out what you thought you were going to see when you look at the drawings isn't what you're what you're seeing what do you do well we we call the engineer we call call the engineer and say Hey you know we have underlying condition of whether it's it's ledge or it's buried rubbish or you know something that's not supposed to be there um call up the engineer and say hey this is what we found might want to come out here for a site visit so we can rethink things that's all well that I can tell you there's more to it than that and that's the certainly not when you're on that machine if you're working in the town you're the one with the license period right to do that that job and you're the one with the responsibility even though he's you've got a design you're the person that's putting it in the ground in compliance with the state but but so part of this is one saying you might want to come out here isn't a good enough answer that it's that you've got to stop but the other right absolutely is the Board of Health oversees this stuff and and the Board of Health has to be involved when we've approved a a design that says this is what's there that's what's going in the Board of Health needs to be involved not just the engineer and not he might want to come out there because quite frankly the way you have to work with us we all have to work is that we have to work as a team and when stuff heads South and someone finds out you didn't put it in the way it's supposed to or or when Lee comes and inspects he can't see what's underground what what buried and we found out that it's not what what's supposed to be there you really don't want when that homeowner takes you to court you don't want his lawyer to be calling the Board of Health as a witness against you you need to be saying the Board of Health is fully involved with this and the installers the engineer and the Board of Health are all involved to make sure this complies with the regulations I my Pro we say this to every single person that gets a a license in this town my my concern right now is I don't think you have very much experience and that that we're talking about giving you a license that you can be doing a lot of stuff in town as much as you want that unless you know unless someone catches something going wrong I Lee and and Bill I'm I'm and sometimes in cases like this what we do is is give provisional license that that allows you to to get started on a on a project and and Lee or Bill you know really looks after you that or we we make an engineer do more inspections than normally would be done there are other times that we've we've had people work with another installer but the I guess the the the safest way is probably to to for you to tell us when you're ready to to be installing a system and we give you a license to do that system and have the engineer on the job talk to us about it and tell us that that they're going to really inspect it and make sure that the things are going the way they designed it that's yeah have the engineer do supplemental inspections that makes a lot of sense yeah no I understand how you know yeah we don't have a a you know we haven't done a hundred septic installations but we have done septic systems right um we have a a union operator that's been you know in the business for a long time he's not he's not some fly by nighter he you know we we've done it before we have a septic installation lightning or license in Berkshire County so we can install in every town in Berkshire County we've held the license for I mean I've had mine for four years now and he's had his is I couldn't even tell you um all it you got six or 10 systems not many not many systems in an environment so do so where do you start where do you start you know what I mean well that's what I'm I'm suggesting that you that we say everyone's got to start somewhere you know right right but you don't you don't start without if someone knowledgeable making sure when you start that it's done right and so that's where i' come from is to to not stop you from starting but to ensure that the person that you're working for in fact Gets A system that complies with the the regulations and I Le you're you're the guy Le that in the field most of the time what is your what is your thought well um uh bill can you share with us um what system um well you have a system in mind to work on or is this just a general license yeah so um yeah I have a a client on they're on let's see here I can tell you exactly where they're at they're on Amhurst Road that's Cindy Watson yeah Cindy Watson yeah at uh 559 Amhurst Road that's the one that we just discussed with right so yeah that's yeah we did a perk test there and um you know they're a potential client of mine they seem you know very happy and when I talked to them they you know they're like well you're very knowledgeable you seem like you know what you're doing um and you know I wouldn't steer him wrong I would I I I'm not out there to you know put bad work I'm not out there to take people's money and I'm not out there to go to court over over not doing good that one bill just to give you an idea uh Bill Lincoln as compared with Bill Shen uh if you want to talk about places that are really really really different than digging in rocks up on the hilltowns there's one because you've got a spot that's sand you're next to a state highway you're working deep in the soil within five feet of the front property line you've got your within 10 feet of the building foundation with a deep system and sand that wants to move all over with a public water supply line r running within 10 fet of your system that needs to have a sleeve on it and in the backyard you've got a a bank that's not stable with a septic system an old septic system that has to be pumped out and filled with with concrete so if you're looking for a place that you can get in more trouble than you can ever imagine without knowing it you just bit the bullet on on that one and so that's exactly the reason that I would be saying before this job starts you have to have a meeting with the engineer on site and he's got to agree to to supervise what's what's going on that that's what my feelings would be that in this case we need to be trying to not only save everybody from a Calamity here it's to save you from getting in in trouble too so so Lee we're we're killing ourselves with time here this is this is not Bill and Lee just this so dick this is Al Weiss's job so we're going to require if we approve this we're going to require Al to be intimately involved with the construction correct yeah Lee what is your thought no no um um I can absolutely work with alen of course and with uh with Mr Lincoln and I can make sure that on a regular basis whether it's every morning every night or both I can uh be on site if need be you know within five minutes uh to help if I can with Mr Lincoln in accord uh work with alen Weiss and whatever capacity I can do to be of assistance I I think we should be careful and the responsibility is with Mr Lincoln and Allen not with the board of of pul that's right and that the the safe part the designer here is Allen and starting off with a a kickoff so that everybody knows what you know we've had enough discussion about about this job with Allen yeah and and my proposal is to is this set this up that that we only give a permit for this you know we don't have to increase the the fee for the rest of the year but we we do a a permit for this one job and that we put is still saying that that Allan has to be on board saying that he's going to be be supervising this I have no idea what the agreement has to be for you know Allen doesn't work for free so that that this board can't direct Allen to could do engineering for no money but but somehow that Allen and Mr Lincoln have to be working close enough together that this job gets done in in a Safe Way and in compliance with the regulations but but but that's what I'm I'm again I'm uncomfortable right now with this particular uh application Bill and Lee what do you what do you think um can we get Ellen on the phone now to add about this or is that not possible do you think they don't have the mechanism to to it's 8:15 we have an appointment at 8:15 I believe folks yeah okay let's talk let's um um maybe um alen has opportunity she can reach out to Allen in the morning and um get him on board to our discussion and concerns and then we can go from next if that's okay with the uh with with all parties concerned my proposal is that we do exactly what you're saying Le and to put this in the with the responsibility in the right place that's with the installer and the and the designer and that we ask both the installer that we table this application until the next meeting let Allen and and M Mr Lincoln work together to come up with a plan of how this is how this would get done and get back to us and and tell us how that's gonna happen and and we work this next at the next meeting I Lee and Bill what what do you think of that was that going to put a crimp on the beginning Mr Lincoln when was this project supposed to start uh I mean the sooner the better you know their their their system is is not working it's they you know they've had to have it pumped twice now um you know when the the tank get full and you know I'd hate to put a burden on um on the homeowner I could I could expect something that says we we do Grant the permit from for this job but that we we let Lee since the board can't because of the open meeting law the two of us can't talk together outside the meeting that what we could do is since Lee is the the typical field guy that Lee ensures that Allan and Bill Lincoln work together and set something up that that Lee feels comfortable with and we could then let let this homeowner move on with it solving the septic problem Phil and League what do you think of that I think that's okay I think that's reasonable League what about you oh no I agree um I will reach out to Allan um I'll text him something this evening or tomorrow morning and get everybody on board and get a um start date and share our concerns with Allen and make sure that he's on board with putting some extra time into this project if that's okay with you guys yeah that way we can we can get this done so so we're gonna the three of us are saying Colleen that we're granting this permit for this one job for the one job okay for the one job but but if the votes for the rest of the year he's paid for the permit for the rest of the year V we make that decision after we see other the job work so that's what what we've decided but that that Lee will end up being the one that needs to be satisfied in terms of the relationship between Mr Lincoln and and Allan okay that being said um what do you and Bill think is a good um template for accomplishing this goal so I'm I'm clear I'm working um at the direction of the board on this and not my own imagination what I would be doing and Bill can look at it also as a project manager I would be going back since we know Allan is a a knowledgeable experienced guy that that I would start off saying that we need the the beginning meeting that that's the one where where all three people are meeting face to face at that meeting since Allen's got the design it's not a complicated complic it's an execution issue that Allan and Mr Lincoln Le determine what the appro the appropriate spots the Milestones are that that Allan should be involved to protect this thing from going a fallou so that you don't be the person that that's you know running the job Le that that Mr Lincoln and Allen have all of the skills and responsibility to to run the job but but they actually have to write down what it is that they're going to have for Milestones with inspection points and and Allan go over the drawing right there saying these are the critical things the danger points to watch for that that's the way I would handle it and and try to to get it that that your job is not the one to tell how to run the job yours is the one to to make sure they follow their plan to run the job but it's their plan and I I have no engineering background as everybody knows um I just am there as a as a witness um and a scorekeeper to make sure that the project is done in a orderly fashion with um the proper reporting um of progress Andor right any issues that arise yeah absolutely so that way that way the people the knowledgeable people and the people with the licenses we are the ones that are that are managing it and you just make sure they do what they said is that what you would do Bill Bill is that how you would handle yeah no that makes sense only operationally I'd like to add is that pumping the tank in the rear of the house and filling it up with flowable fill is going to be a challenging thing to do so the Al and the uh contractor should think logistically how they're going to get that done in a expeditious fashion that's that's a bit of a challenge it is a and it also when you look at it B because it's a it's a narrow lot and say how do you get you know I don't know whether they're gonna I'm gonna guess they're gonna have to pump it to get it there don't have that well that's right because if they hire a pump a a concrete pumper that's extremely expensive the other way to do it I'm just thinking out loud is to take a bobcat a wheel or track bobcat and fill up the bobcat bucket with material and bring it around man that's going to be a that's going to be a time consuming project there's a thousand gallons of that stuff oh yeah and you got to make sure you don't encroach on the neighbor's property with the with the Bobcat so they got they got to think this out carefully well the other thing is you don't have any place for the sewage to go once you do it so you the whole front of this house is going to be set up so you can't get equipment across it that's right so you really have to get the tank in but you can't put the tank in easily because you got that big hole in the in the soft sand so so I agree Bill somebody's got to be thinking the thing through that but that's exactly why you can't take someone that the that Ed the dealing with 4 acre lots on a rocky Hillside and and do this so so Le that's what that I agree with Bill that's that what seems like a yeah Bill Logistics Logistics is the name of the game on this Logistics Logistics Logistics so yeah so anyway that's what Bill if that's what Bill Lincoln that's what we're saying you can see that it's taken up a ton of our time tonight and uh if it's it's not an easy thing that you're you're doing and it's unfortunately it's not one that you're experienced that with yeah no I I understand your concern I I understand your concern and I see where you're coming from and all these things that you guys have just gone over have already been considered they've been talked about and we have a plan for all of it we would never I be here talking to you guys if I was had one white chance that I was anywhere nervous about being able to complete this job because it's not the kind of person I am and I really think that you guys will be surprised with the outcome you know that that you know us working with Allen and us working with you guys it'll be a Flawless procedure by the time we're done I sure hope good I sure hope so good to hear I I have a 100% confidence believe me all right so okay things all right our next one uh the 850 I mean a 750 is cancelled that with me yes we are have a good night all all right thank you okay thank you Bill all right bye bye in passing this is relle lamur on the camp toilets at 19 kall Street told Colleen there is no Camp there no one's renting anything no one's there are no ads for this as I mentioned to Colleen before the meeting started when I drove by there there's a sign there that says there is and there and there advertised as hip hip camp or something on the Internet that's right so so either we've got the wrong property or the person that we asked to come in doesn't own it or got a different out or someone's not telling the truth there but there's something when you drive by there and all the things you see aren't consistent with the statement that that's that it's not there but as I mentioned to Ken when I drove by it it doesn't look like vehicles have gone down that the little access road with the sign up so but well should we should we try to rent the campsite or something you know what that's a reasonable thing Colleen you want to we'll give that for an assignment to you well you you can't unless you're paying for it online well oh yeah you have to pay via VIA PayPal or verb or one of those online yeah it's an online it's an online deal dick yep totally online can can one of us somebody try it and see if that's where it where it stops when it comes time to that you can actually try to rent it and then when you don't put in your credit card number it it kicks you out at least it'll say you know what we went through the whole process other than to pay and we could do it who wants to try that okay Colleen that's your assignment I'll try it from the office yeah see from the office yeah I'll see what happens tell tell your husband you might be sleeping out in the woods some night okay the the next thing that we've got is uh Rich Bo oh boy we are we're half an hour late with with rich rich you've been patiently sitting there and it's your I've been listening to you di dick I have to excuse myself Rich good to see you again I saw you at conservation last week I have to excuse myself for five minutes I will be okay Rich go go ahead I maybe we can let you start and then okay or we can tell you why don't we let you start and and after you go in a little bit uh we'll tell you where our stand is and then see how close everybody is of a common understanding okay good okay first of all I'd like to thank you for your letter that uh you sent I assumed to the select board it was very powerful and it was a letter that we really appreciate uh the reason I asked you to sign it was because the attorney for the Gravel Pit gave everyone the impression that because it was unsigned they didn't have to it wasn't didn't have any importance so that's the reason I had yours signed I had the conservation uh uh Bill sign his so I'm going to hand that in at the next hearing public hearing uh We've we're on hearing number four already a continuation so it's taking a lot of time but I think the main thing that we wanted to know is in your letter you say by this letter the board is ordering that the this permit not be approved now what what Authority does the Board of Health have in in as far as gravel pits go I'm confused we were confused about that because we looked at the bylaws and we couldn't find any for the Board of Health I mean is it is it my understanding that anything to do with uh health and safety you have a say over is that the way it is the way that the the state law is set up rich it actually comes out that Boards of Health are probably the the most power boards in the state in terms of their Authority now and and we in this case if you look at the the health and and safety part of issues we can we can order things whether we end up having to go to court if the orders aren't followed but essentially the really broad broad powers to protect the health and safety of the the citizens of the state so it's a in many cases they're not they're not bound there are some that are that if you look at things like shooting ranges there are some specific rules that say Boards of help you cannot go and say the noise from the shooting range is a public nuisance that that that it's that limit but but uh in this particular case if it's using those Powers saying that we're looking at public health so we defined issues that we said are what we believe are public health and safety issues uh what what you should know though and and someone asked me last week they said see the Board of Health forbid the gravel pit from going on the the Board of Health didn't look and say the gra gravel operation is dangerous then you can't do that you can't go ahead and establish that that those are not within the board of he perview so what the board did is say these issues are we are defining as health and safety issues and we are not we in fact did not say you have anybody has to look at those issues what we said is that you can't approve the permit without understanding those issues and solving those problems so that they we didn't say you have to you have to do that it says if you're going to approve that permit this has to be done so you can't we our order says you can't just go you can't go and approve this permit not unless this this stuff has been done so for instance if if someone comes out and and the Board of Health is not the the group but we've got for instance we've got letters that came into to us about noise noise was one of the issues that we talked about but the board wouldn't be the the group that says we're listen to these these doctors that sent information in and the board said okay we're qualified to decide whether that doctor's opinion is a valid opinion we're not but what we would be doing is saying and as this goes on further if it doesn't that go to say is that a are the proper peers the proper Engineers been involved to come up and analyze the potential problems and come up with the potential Solutions so we would get back involved because we said they have to be solved so so uh for instance we someone from from the other side of your not your group the opposite group of people the bad guys the dark side that some they say well wait a second there aren't we only want eight trucks a day going in there that's all that is you guys are all wrong and and said well in this particular case we were very careful to say this is how we came up with this conclusion that there'd be a truck every eight minutes so those numbers someone can go after but if someone said hey we're only going to take our solution is there only going to be eight trucks going in there a day and they said well that's not what that permit says so you you haven't we've said that this is a problem 40,000 cubic yards a year is a problem and this is how we said we viewed it going in to look at maximum rate and just coming up and saying oh the answer to your question is there's eight trucks well I guess that you could end up going someone could say you know what we're modifying the permit so that the permit is for eight truck a day well let let me ask you a question if that in fact may be a if uh go ahead let me give you an example uh there we're asking for a noise study or in debes okay and the the select board refuses to ask the applicant to pay for and hire a professional independent expert on any area to do certain studies if you go down to the town hall they have a folder there of every document that has been provided through the public hearing every document is our side not one document is from the applicant so we're saying how can anybody review what they did uh they asked the applicant well how many decibels does a truck make and the guy says well we think uh I think it uh makes so many decb well I'm not sure this and that so there's no real proof of anything is that something you would look at well that's what what we would end up before the the whole thing would would be done we haven't met with the select board about and the Town Council because I'm I'm I'm guessing that that the I don't know about the select board if they're like the Board of Health we certainly don't want the Board of Health doesn't want to go to court fighting the select board and I'm guessing the select board doesn't want to do do that with the Board of Health and I am guessing that Town Council is going to say that's really a lousy idea we really shouldn't be doing that so so in this case what Bill likes to use the term peer review that we have to come up with with the proper people an acceptable group of people of trained Engineers that said you guys in in fact are capable of understanding of finding out how do you collect that data what does it mean how do you interpret it and what needs to be what needs to be fixed what not doesn't need to be fixed there are some other problem issues in there that that we've got I've looked at at the the uh noise limits and the the zoning uh rules they're they're they're really terrible right from an engineering standpoint they're they're not they're they're just not very comprehensive they're not I'm not even sure how You' go about either defending them or attacking them and Court a law they're they're so all over the place and they're they're they're not defined very well so so I think You' ultimately on a noise standpoint you probably end up again going back to the the health and and safety side of it and say that's going to end up being different than what it says in the zoning the zoning laws but I think the board would end up being involved with with choosing who it would be that would would do the analysis and and coming up with with the conclusion because it's not as as I said when we we just started off that that can I can I interject sure you can bill yeah you you know there's one technical problem with the noise study because you're you're assuming what the situation is going to be so the proper way to do it they'd have to actually procure vehicles of the type that this operation would use they'd have to actually set up a series of microphones do do the do the test runs measure the noise calculated the time weighted averages it would be I'm guessing it would be a $50,000 assignment to actually put this report together that's my opinion yes okay so the question is Rich do do you are are you guys in a position to spend $50,000 for a technical study we shouldn't do that the applicant should is responsible to do that not us okay so did the select board say the applicant is obliged to do the study or not obliged to do the study they're not they didn't they didn't say they're obliged to do any study they just asked that's where it comes out that's where rich is is correct at this particular point is that the Board of Health has said that we've ordered that said the can't again we didn't say the study has to be done we didn't say anybody had to do anything what we did say is that we're ordering that the permit not be granted unless this stuff has been studied and rectified so we didn't demand anybody do anything we just demanded that the permit not be approved it and it it doesn't say the our our letter doesn't say do the permit conditionally on something it says the order that we sent out that the depit can't be approved unless this stuff has been done okay so so the applicant would do the study and we would still have to don't know that we don't we don't know that our letter doesn't say that bill yeah the point is the point is if the applicant hires a firm to do the study I've known over my years doing forensic work that there's a there's a pretty good chance that they're going to try to tilt the data in the favor of their client right okay so it would be up to our board to vet their study to make sure everything is on the up and up when they do their study if they do their study you see what I mean let me ask you one question were you were you not rich I think you were you were involved in the in the landfill assignment right and it would probably be a similar kind of thing that that's someone says that you have to now when that that particular one we ended up not choosing the right things to say had to be studied and it was a back room agreement between lawyers that forc forced them to do the stuff that we didn't choose to do UPF front so the stuff got done anyways but it it ended up that there was actually a hearing that that one getting a presentation there were different experts and and but it would I would guess it would be that kind of process but as still saying it's some in a case in that particular case we were using tyan Bond right to be looking at their experts so we had a we had a reputable engineering company that would since we weren't the the landfill engineers and experts on that are expert as billan on traffic in fact traffic was one of them uh that you end up getting someone to do that as it gets as that gets further along but but at this point it really says we're not in a point like we we got letters from from different people in town saying about noise or about the we got one today I think dust I think but we're not we're not Gathering that data and we're and in fact if the select board were to say you know that there are other things that that we just not going to Grant this permit then none of this study and none of this work May ever ever be done because the permit was never granted right now let me ask you this dick uh any studies that are done it's public information isn't it so we have a right to see well it it depends upon who who commissions the study and who the study is done for that's the thing it may not be public information a lawyer may end up sequestering the information at his or her discretion so you got to be careful who pays for the study but if it comes in if it gets submitted to a board then it becomes public record that's right it become public that's right well if we got a copy of of it then you then it's public record right I don't know if Bill was uh here when I said the town hall is accumulating all the information that is uh being presented at the public hearing not one document is in there from the applicant not one document every document that's in there which is quite a few is from our group so we how can we how can you object to something if go you go to it's really simple you you uh you can either look it up yourself or give the Attorney General a call and and you just ask for the process under the Freedom of Information Act and you just you just send it into the proper form and there's so they've got so many days to to give it to you okay let me ask you this dick the uh uh the town select board you know hired attorney Costa to not be in favor or against the permit but just to inform the board of what to do because otou who's a Town Council his firm does work for TR key so they they uh file a conflict of you know there's a conflict of interest there right of course of course but CA said that if one of the 11 criteria under 6.27 of the bylaws that is not complied with then the permit cannot be issued there are 11 conditions and each one of them has to be met that's that's the special permit conditions correct right yes okay yeah does the Board of Health have anything to do with those conditions or criteria we're not in that we're not in that that's the if it it ends up uh if it's straight zoning then the building inspector is the yeah yeah that's planning board that's planning board planning board zba and building inspector yeah but the but the select board may act as the issuing agency may be the one that that has to make that determination and then if what would happen is then if they granted a permit that that a group your group I'll call you your group it's not fair to say your group because your citizens are gramy but I'm I'm just saying the group that's sitting here tonight that if if one of your people your friends or or you were to look and say you know what that wasn't that's that's all regulation in this town you guys granted the permit in violation you didn't follow this then then I forget whether you go to Superior Court but whatever it is that there's a the legal means there's a remedy yeah there's a remedy out of that situation yeah see it's really a waste of money because 12 years ago I was part of the group that sued the uh uh select board because they issued a permit for the exact same area exact same amount of cubic yards to be taken out and the the judge ruled on on several different things that the board did not do so we won you know they didn't get the permit yeah so they're trying to do the exact same thing now the only thing they did they changed the names they have a but in this Cas in this case what you're talking about right now doesn't doesn't really pertain to the Board of Health we have to we have to be careful on on what we do that that is well we've got broad poers and when we look at health and safety to protect people in terms of land use and in process of of Permitting that's not in that's that's different that's not in the Board of Health purview and so we can do things like saying this and fact is that we've determined this is a a threat to people's health and safety we and we're gonna say you can't do that without on the on the zoning end Rich you got John mcglaughlin John's an excellent lawyer he knows all the ins and outs of that stuff you know that he's good he's good that's different that I don't know I I fully that as the select board goes further along that the select board is going to say hey Board of Health what did what did you really mean by this the Board of Health took that action at a re as a result of the select boarding the Board of Health to look at that they said would you please we've got permit here's the permit here's the project could you please review this and give our your comment so the select Bo asked us to do that and and we in fact did that so so I expect that this the select board's gonna move further along and let their investigation continue and then it's going to if for sure council is is going to have to be saying I don't want this if if the if the board of Selectmen says okay we agree with all this we're going to put that as a requirement then the Board of Health may have nothing to do with it other than at some point say did did this really happen but but at this point it so it could go all the way from the select board saying you know what this is the same argument that we had 12 years ago and this is going to be turned down for the same reason and then it dies exactly but it looks like it looks like the Board of Health has to give final approval before they can issue the permit is that correct for sure the the board of health is going to have to to say yeah you complied with this order right so so and with is different than a approving the permit what the Board of Health is saying see there were eight thing I don't know if a they but let's say there were eight things that we said these are a these are a threat to to the citizens health and safety in the town they have to be studied understood and rectified yeah Rich what were your what were your what were your specific talking points directed to the Board of Health in your opinion here I'm sorry I just like to introduce myself I'm Susan bruffy Mr baladir Mr shahan Ley thank you um I'm the culprit who sent you that um large packet of information I was hoping to give you a background on our concerns before we came in here it might have been really Overkill and I apologize if it was um but I think a big question that we have is that uh the planning board has requested a peer review by a civil engineer I know the conservation has once an enrad and a storm water pollution prevention plan um and you mentioned in your letter that the long-term environmental impact of removing the quality of soil in the sensitive area should be assessed by a peer but a specific recommendation wasn't made as to what types of Assessments should be made and I know I hear this core select board time and time again listening to us and and saying well you know we're not the experts we don't know but as rich said we're going into our fourth hearing and no assessments have been requested I'm wondering if the board in health can give the select board any direction in terms of what types of Assessments you see might be necessary in order to assess a lot of the things that that you mentioned in your Board of Health letter is that an appropriate thing for the Board of Health to be doing at this point in time I know that the first time around the planning board ended up sending I think four different letters to the select board because issues kept coming up and so they would address them as they came up and again I'm hearing the select board almost crying out for help saying hey we you know we're not the experts um so that that is a a question I don't know know whether you can address as as members of the Board of Health well Susan good to see you again I saw you two weeks ago at the at conservation thank you no no and thank you for the packet I think we all received your packet of data and I I understand I understand um the the Dynamics um dick I'm I'm guessing I'm guessing that the letter that the Board of Health issued uh several weeks ago is essentially the template that's the template for what needs to be done but I I suspect Susan's asking for a little more specificity as to what particular technical items need to be addressed I don't know if now's the time to do that though dick what do you think I think so I think I think what the select board I haven't been at the hearing but if it were our hearing right now if we were doing this yeah we would be in the position that we would be gathering information from different groups from the planning board that in fact I think the I think the approval process requires that the Selectmen re reach out but but but at at this point without understanding where the select board or what they're they're thinking the the board our board is going to be stepping into an area that it's not time to step into that I would think that the select board would be saying okay we've gathered we've had the hearings that we're supposed to have we're still we're still at the Gathering point and we're getting closer to say okay we're gon to make some kind of decision but but as Susan is saying by the way Susan thank you for the packet I read the packet and it was very it was very informative and as I said to to Rich it's we're not getting Gathering that data that's not at this point this it's not our position to be doing that I don't know if you you were on board when I said it that that the board responded to the the Board of Health responded to the board of selectman request to say could you look at this and we did and say yeah there's some there's some health and safety issues here and you can't move beyond the spot that you are right now in terms of the process the the permitting you can't issue that permit unless you understand these and they're they're Loose as you've pointed out they're they're loose enough because the engineering hasn't been done to define the problem that's what the Board of Health stated in our letter saying this is an issue as Bill just pointed out it's it's a thing it's it's still kind of so it's real but it's not totally defined yet you have it's a it's a it's a nebulous problem right now it hasn't been well defined that's the thing and part of the engineering part of this it's not and and I I think uh in fact the Jim try did call me up and said GE I don't I don't understand do and and part of the issue is that people jump or would like to jump to the solutions of the problems that there are the issue is the problems haven't been defined so and that's where Bill was pointing out of Ru noise and you can say there's a noise issue but there's more than a noise issue issue that once you start saying what is this noise problem because that's a that's a good one to be be talking about because it's not just is that truck Bill's talking about or that type of truck who love well it now starts to be well is that truck going on that road doing that manyi trip at that time of day and and so as as you start going into really defining it you say gee this is this is a a very specific problem but not specifically defined right now so that for us to jump in the Board of Health to jump in to the select board right now and say let's talk about noise let's talk about uh safe distances between vehicles on road let's that all of those start to become issues that very quickly the select boards and of the Board of Health would say well we're not the right people yet to say those two big trucks Crossing each other on that road on that corner we're not the experts to Define that but we are at the point of saying somebody's got to be looking at that and you can't issue that permit well D let me just say that we're gonna issue the permit and then someone's got to look at it later because maybe there's no solution maybe there's no you don't know us that you don't know in some cases you don't know what you don't know yet because you need to hire somebody if you're going to get through this gate and say yeah we're going to do the the issue of permit you have to learn what you don't know and so Susan where you're saying the select board is reaching out yeah be I I would expect it's because they're starting to see all these things that are as Bill point out they're they're nebulous they're they're they're still loose but the Board of Health saying they're there folk and you can't issue this permit until you go and look at them and Fe some of them some of them may may not need to be fixed some of them may be very serious they may not be able to be fixed you know if you if you look at somebody and I don't know maybe same you know the the the bridge on trumpy Avenue may not be suitable to carry the heaviest truck that's going to go over there it may not be it may there's there's no study that'll do it for that bridge the study saying the bridge is no good and you can't you can't do it unless you replace that bridge that but but there going to be some of those there some was going to say you know what that wasn't a big problem after all that you don't have to whatever that is whatever we were afraid of they that's not one of them but uh but that's why I think Susan and maybe Rich you're there and whoever else is is with us tonight is looking and say this is this is loose right now and it's not at it's not at the point of for sure sending letters into the Board of Health F board you guys you guys do the the work we got this Stu that's other it's because we're it it's loose enough that that a group that's opposed to this is still shiting at at item individual items that that one person or one neighborhood could be big it could be items that one personal own is is concerned with and it doesn't affect the rest of the community and it's not it's not appropriate to be on the big list it's so so everybody's out it's it's so loose right now but the issue that the Board of Health did is put that gate that says we can't go through it we can't issue this permit until this list of things that we saw gets defined and and gets rectified and so there but there's going to be rich you brought it out brought it up earlier that at some point someone got to say who's who's good enough that still points out for what expert you're G to get who's a good enough expert to define the problems we should be working on and then who who is it that decides whether the solution is an appropriate solution for the for the problem that we're working on that's that's on there but but in terms of the Board of Health say you have to do that no if if you don't wanna if someone just says you know what we're just not GNA go after this project this time none of this may ultimately ever get to find and and get resolved because it may never it may never come to pass but I don't know if that that helped you Susan or Rich that you whether now where the board is it does make me feel better knowing that this is really a a you view it as a process that is unfolding and there a lot left to be defined I think we've been growing more and more nervous as we see hearings go on and we keep thinking that's a select board will be asking the applicant to verify things asking them for further information and and they haven't at this point which is why I had been wondering whether um whether anything can be suggested to them but knowing your information is definitely very helpful and um knowing that there is an Avenue that's being followed and that it's a process that's being unfolded um makes me feel better I do one thing um you had spoken Mr Bombadier about uh really needing to be looking at what the health needs are as a group I know in the letter that we wrote I mentioned um particular Health needs of individuals and so a question I do have I mean I mentioned someone who lives right near the exit of trumpy Avenue um where they go up a steep hill and the noise and the diesel fumes are just horrible from we don't get a lot of trucks now from the sharder Gravel Pit because it's only licensed for I think 5,000 cubic yards um but when they do run um it is just a horrible noisy smelly mess and she has an acute Mass cell autoimmune disorder and um a diesel fuel is a known trigger for her and um she has anaphylactic responses does the town does the select board have any responsibility for protecting individuals from known Health um dangers like this I was wondering I don't know whether this at any point falls under like the American the Disability Act or any state or federal mandates that apply to issues like this um I know that they the select Board needs to be following the bylaws and doing things in the best interest of the town as a whole but are the responsibilities put forth towards an individual like this you know that's an interesting question dick clearly P public health is our general purview but fine-tuning it to a particular individual I think that's going to take some deep thinking on our part well I think sue you have there are at least half a dozen people that have some serious health problems on Bachelor Street on the street yes we have um COPD a lot of asthma we have vets who have been in the burn pit um so there are we have people with advanced cancer but a lot of respiratory issues um right in that area I was just pointing to this one particular individual because it is just such a very extreme example and she's right there and she's In Harm's Way yeah I I think that that Bill's got a good point but I think that when certainly there's the there's the Avenue that that someone from a board Health standpoint you could end up using the process that's called the public health nuisance process and that and that you could petition the Board of Health and say here's the situation we'd like you to call this a a public health nuisance and and have it rectified U whether the Board of Health would end up saying it is that it's comp it's still the say you've got you've got Federal air standards you've got vehicle standards that that the state sets up for for noise and pollution and and so if if you think of the to put it let let's put it to an extreme that and I'm doing it to an extreme because it doesn't it doesn't apply to your your particular example but it it's an extreme and and to try to make a point and let's say that there is a person that lives on the side of the road and that person has their their windows open most of the time and that person is particularly sensitive to perfumes made from the gardinia FL and that it actually causes that person to have compulsion and it just happens that four doors down the from the person's house there's a person that loves the perfume that's made from the gardinia flower and that person happens to walk to their friend's house that's four doors in the other direction past the person that's that's so desperately affected by that odor now if you look at our society and our regulations and say do that that really mean that that person or any other person walking on that street should be forbidden from having perfume made from the gardinia flower and it's back to what still is is saying and saying well did the did the person that made the perfume do anything wrong did the person wearing it do anything wrong they didn't did they break any laws did they could you put them in jail for walking by the house that made the person sick so it it's a again it's an extreme it doesn't fit really the the question you had it kind of does it it at least has some as I said I put it in an extreme to say that's crazy but but it make what bill thoughts about being complicated and would what would the Board of Health do what would the courts do when it it's it's a very difficult thing when you end up with one person that's affected by by another the actions of another when the actions were clearly not illegal I don't in this particular case of the trans said I'm not sure with I think that my guess is that there are there are are big problems that affect lots of people that probably the working on the big problems and solving those are probably gonna end up solving the little problem that's what I I would hope but but where we are right now let's we haven't as a board the three of us have not been working with the selectman and in fact the the other than for a conversation a long time ago with with r o tul about it been very general uh thought nothing to really giving advice or anything so not the board of tell has not yet worked with the select about with this and I would I would hope that our boards have always always have certainly in the last know 20 years boards have worked very well together and hopefully what happens is is uh we use our resources in a in a a good and constructive way to help each other out and deal with with the needs to the town can I ask Bill a question sure sure go ahead Rich bill I don't we're not supposed to talk about conservation but I have a question kind of fits fits uh in this uh area but you said you won't uh issue a report on Wetlands until after the permit is issued correct we have to do peer we have to do a technical peer review of their permit application form and plan set Rich so we can't issue a report until they submit a proposal to us now here's the question it's a very unusual situation where we're talking about a gravel pit that the result of your opinion has an effect on whether they get the permit to begin with and we won't know they won't know the results until you know what you say in your report on that permit whether they're encroaching on Wetlands is very important to whether they get the permit to begin with actually they have air very simple solution they can just move the boundaries of their operation outside of any jurisdictional areas on the Wetland on the Wetland side of things so they do have a fairly simple solution if they do encroach but that's that's what they're saying right now that's what they're saying right now they they're not encroaching on Wetlands but well we're gonna we're gonna hire a peer reviewer to make sure that their Wetland line has been established in accordance with proper protocol because every map I've looked at every Insurance map every map I've looked at it says the whole area is a flood plane and there are wetlands so how you how they can stand up and even say that I don't understand well let's let them submit I don't want to take up booh time but let's let them submit their an red application we'll do our peer reviewers and and again you guys will be welcome to come to our hearings and we can we can have out there but I appreciate the concern and question Rich okay I think our Our concern actually doesn't really have to do with the dig site as much as it does with the travel site um the the road that they'll be traveling through is the road that is surrounded by the flood Plains and it's bordered by The Bachelor Brook tributary and the dump trucks and they're going to be thousands of them need to go over the the Culvert and to you know it I they haven't really answered the question but I don't think that Culvert has been certified for any weight at all and um Hera Jacobs from the Department of environment not a Bo a health isue right right now yeah yeah I hate to do this to everybody but we're now we're now after quarter past n the board's got a lot other things left to do we've we actually spent a lot more time than than we had planned to I think it's worthwhile that's why that's why I didn't say hey guys let's let's try to get back onto our schedule and do the rest of the Board of Health business we can come back and and do more of more of this uh dick could I make one last could I make one last comment sure okay this uh are you aware of there's a uh state law that will affect the Board of Health uh Authority quite a bit it's called the Statewide accelerated public health for every Community act and it says it would dramatically reshape the public health infrastructure in the State uh at potentially great financial cost of taxpayers with little or no local involvement but the state wants to take away a lot of authority from local Boards of Health I don't know if you were aware of that yeah they they are I'm not won't go deep into it that we're start we're seeing it now with shared services that we're we're involved right now with with the Northampton the the thought right now and where it goes I'm not sure it's going to be tremendously expensive but the the state has has done the fact that the study is at least a half a dozen years old now I think but essentially it it said that that there are let's say there's 321 Boards of Health in the in the state I don't know that that's number it's a number like that right and that they're all essentially independent uh follow general rules and that that the whole services are dramatically different from that individual citizens get from Community to community and so the the uh the state is trying to get it so that inspectors all have similar credentials and training uh that were were uh that when are are made when when how health prices are managed are are done by qualified people and in similar ways from Community to community the the general concept is that that at the Tactical level that the doing things level that that the boards of Health end up yes indeed losing power that restaurants all get inspected the same way that that that what you guys listen to the to from a a septic system in solar all get handled the same way that people are capable it's you don't wait and we saw a guy with not much experience really trying to figure out whether we should let him install Stu that that everybody ends up in a whole States being treated the same way that mosquitoes all get handled this the same way at at least the appropriate way for the area but but that the autonomy of the Board of Health to make decisions St and not get taken away but whether that's what really ends up happening that it's it's going to be a tremendous amount of money money to do it because at this point there aren't enough people to do it you're there there aren't enough people to to to keep up with the information that the state wants to keep on on file it's a tremendously big project and whether it actually happens or not some of it will we we're seen it where we we definitely from a town standpoint we're in trouble we we can't the the individual members of the board aren't aren't the don't have the credentials to to do the inspections that that are required right now that and we're having a terrible time trying to find someone that will do it that this essentially this what the the town is getting for whatever our budget is let's say the budget is $70,000 I don't know but virtual right now but it's that kind of number it's probably for this town it's probably G to be crippling to do it if if you look at a at you know our inspecting at $35 an inspection it's just it's not it's stuff that that's done for free I'll I'll tell you one thing Rich if the county and this is the county if the county takes over you're unlikely to get the rapid service in TLC that you get from from our board and Boards in the past believe me on that we're worried about that yeah the other the other thing though was that if you look at from from the spot of of gramby gry's got three people on this boarded with that are old that are old that have had a ton of experience um that you know for instance got through Co with a a an old school and a a modern school not designed for for disease prevention that it looks like the that whole Co there there may not have been any within School transmission of that disease through what happened with this board and working with the the school department it's really this board had some really good skills but you know what it would be that that without on another board 10 years from now we could have three people on this board that are absolutely incapable of making really good and informed and and knowledgeable decisions and that's throughout the whole town and what would happen is is what the state is doing would really help protect against having having that happen So So Def it's a it's a double-edged sword it's going to be it's going to be expensive it's going to be there just aren't people to do it so it's not an easy it's not an easy fix but that's in kind of a a nutshell Rich that's right thank you what that is I don't know if the answer your question yeah it does welcome gentlemen thank you so much for your time you have been very informative and and very helpful in so many ways and um you know I think you just said it Richard you have do such an incredible job and I just am so glad that you were on our side during this whole corid covid pandemic because I think our town came on out on top of a lot of things and nice well we hope so we hope so it's not a let's hope we don't go through it again I probably won't go through it again that's for sure that's for sure so but thank you so much and um thank you as things progress we might be asking more questions but as said this is a process and I think we just need to be more patient than maybe we're being right now Susan thank you rich thank you and everyone else from the group thanks for attending tonight okay thank you great by the way as you as you look at what this particular format does is H by having this online uh format it allows more people to be listening you that although we don't have many people tonight but but you know if we had 100 people people we could all be here and it's it's a good format it it makes it so that here it is at 9:30 at night that we all haven't had to leave our homes and I think online is great the select word to do it yeah it's I think it's a powerful tool it gets a way it's a way for for people to get close to elected officials and and and get a chance to to say you know looking at you guys face to face and listening and and when you want to go and and look at what would H what happened at the Board of Health meeting two meetings ago you can listen and say what were those crazy guys talking about least you know thanks thank you for sending actually some very interesting time tonight it was I enjoyed I enjoyed tonight good all thank you for sharing that thank you thank you so let's get back to to where we were um we got through the wine house I'm guess our our discussion time is going to go down right now uh we'll go back to uh Evelyn hatch grezy Acres Farm we've got two licenses applications a license to sell retail food and also a license to sell milk and stream renewal are we okay with that yes that's good dick yeah oh yes fine that was a long this a long [Music] evening the next one is serve food kitchen now this one is heart it looks like catering concession and we have given I'm guessing it that it's to give the the permit to be at wiho but if you look at what we got it says on a letter head serve food kitchen Community shared use and it say agreement this agreement is entered into as of the 10th the 10 day of April 2024 by in between serve food LLC serve food limited liability company with the place of business in hoo and ramby Mass from part catering concessions in evidence of their agreement these parties have subscribed their name to be effective the date of this agreement it doesn't tell you what the agreement for it doesn't tell you what sertion is whether it's a c ified kit or infected Place yeah she's working on uh this is her wants to be her base of operations and she is working with them to get their copy of their food uh their food permit their food license so I don't know why it's taking so long it's a place where people can go and use that kitchen to prepare their food but I I don't understand why she can't get their permit but she is working on getting their their permit from their Town must be Holy Oak so it doesn't tell what they have does it is it one kitchen that many people have how do you tell that someone doesn't move all of their food that was in the refrigerator out on the floor it does but it doesn't tell you doesn't tell you anything about the agreement or it doesn't tell you what the company is like Le and Phil what do you think of this well where does she propose to operate in town at where location oh why [Music] not I don't know whether you were at this meeting bill but the the woman doesn't have a base of operation so she wants to operate from Jim's facility oh well the last one she said it's my base of operation while I'm there well the question is again does she have a toilet in a in a sink in her trailer or whatever she's bringing this was this came back to saying even while it only says while she's there that's her base of operation it doesn't say you know where the food is stored how it's how it's stored not when she's not there it's and so this came back now we have a a thing that says hey I have an agreement here it signed but it doesn't say what the agreement is and it doesn't say what the place is and what any part of it well I think the applicant needs to uh step up the and be more transparent with this thing yeah have them come to the next meeting I think Coline dick what do you think have them come to the next meeting we have to chitchat with these people okay maybe what it is that we maybe they don't understand what we're looking for that is she Ser safe certified herself individually or no yes she is she is you know she should be held to the same standards as a standard commercial kitchen I would think right right so she needs the same the amount of sinks she needs hand washing she needs Sanitation protocol well that's what this is supposed to be that our base of operation is supposed to have that yeah well we got to see that and we also possibly you know we go backwards and uh if the base of operations is the wine housee we have to understand um for water supply well you know I know Jim's got Jim's got a terrific business there but the fact that he doesn't have a septic system and a in a in a bathroom for people that's getting that's getting absurd at this point yeah she says she has her own uh water tank and she can bring her water as far as her whatever her but our problem is she doesn't have any place to get the water there's nothing that she she could be working out of the you know the back of of drussel garage yeah I don't know what this place is in holy o serve food I well and and going backwards in tonight's meeting uh when that complaint was filed about that woman with the cane and there's two sany cans only one of which contains a sink right how do the patrons and how more importantly do the vendors um make sure that you know just very basically use the sany can and use the proper handwashing facilities to ensure that the safety of the general population is being served here and that goes right back to your comment bill that the the growth of The Wine House um maybe needs to be clipped a little bit um to avoid something stupid happening on a large scale no no Jim seems to be doing very well but he's got to step up and and get this thing up to date if he's growing at the rate he seems to be growing put in the big parking lot let's put in a Lee field and a and a little uh bathroom for people and and again a little kitchen he needs some sort of kitchen with all the food he's selling there well the problem with these with this food service PL is is it looks like this person running this food service place is doing it the same way saying you know what I don't need to to cook my stuff in a place that's safe I don't need to worry about where I got my ice and where I fill my tanks up with water I don't need to worry about where I throw it on the ground that you know when you hear it in choking Herm they oh when we that done washing our dishes we throw it out on the grap well yeah that's not the that's not the way you do business well maybe in Appalachia that's okay okay but then grantly that's not the way you do it you you make it so people don't get sick yeah and yeah and that goes back to to that goes back to my comment of getting you know the retail food sales somebody has to uh be the big person and make sure that whatever is going on on that property is going on correctly or forbid the vendors and or the food trucks or whatever because it's going to fall on Mr try's shoulders if something goes wrong here yeah you know I'm just trying to think of the usage of those Santa cans if people are drinking beer if there's hundred people there and they're drinking beer having a good time I'm guessing those Santa cans are used probably 15 20 times an hour I'm guessing just guessing just guessing and that being said how many hand Washings can you get out of one of those units in all reality I I don't know I don't know not I can say that I predict if only one has got a Sy you get half the number of hand Washings you should have at the maximum at the minimum right because the other half of the people are coming in without washing well yeah look probably a lot of the guys are using the one without the handwashing the ladies go into the one with the washing and some of the guys too but like you say a lot of people are going to the toilet and not washing their hands and going back and ingesting food and drink just saying and if and if the handwashing ability is maybe 10 20 gallons of water tops in a gravity tank and the people in the food trucks um don't have that option because the water would potentially be gone by the time they get there well I'm sure Jim has a I'm sure he has a spet on the outside of the building with the old kennels were I'm sure they got plenty of water there with the hoses unless the garden hoses are feeding the food trucks well that could happen too yeah okay we're all right let let's Okay no we didn't that one didn't go we' had an well application for 43 West State Street we I did look at that one and uh where we were Le Bill wasn't here I think on this discussion and tyen got some information and saying this is not going to be a public water supply that it's just going to be a little toilet and S we were concerned with roads going in it turns out that that where the drawing was kind of inconclusive on what was happening on the the right side let's say the east side of the building uh Subway is touching that building just about the subway fence is there there is no Road that's going to go in there it's although it is it is looks like it's it's essentially you know touching the the driveway I think it's the I think it's the drive-thru of Subway but question we had about what what location is this again dick what's the address this is where all power was all power and it's the it's the showroom if you're standing at the well the bank or on the other side of the street so if you're standing with your back to the South and you're looking to the north the building to the right which was I think he had boats in there oh oh that was yeah all all Towers yeah the one with all the windows okay I know that building it's a metal building I've been in there it is right in the as you look at it it's in the front right corner is where well go okay it looks like it's it's more than 100 feet and everything our question was are they going to what are they going to do with the rest of the property how are they going to develop it was it going to be a public water supply and yeah that's American installation they do insulating that's an insulation and an Energy Efficiency company do we know that both buildings are on the uh public uh uh um septic system well there were both owned by Dar at one time correct how I'm not sure it was ever hooked up that's a question that whether whether he decided he was GNA save the hookup fee so he stayed on his septic system I don't know uh didn't Dave der roer get back to us about that and said they've got an application in to be connected or something that's what I thought which would indicate that they're not connected but not connected then no it didn't sound like it it sounds like they've got the application in they're going so it sounds as though they may have one large or two small eptic systems on those buildings they may all be tied in together in the back I really don't know but I don't either in fact if you if you look at at this thing at the drawing that came out yeah if it looks like there's we don't have dates or anything on it but if you look at the the main all power building this drawing says with a cloud around it existing SAS in a septic tank right in front of that building you mean fa 202 right yeah so if you went in the driveway the main driveway it would be immediately on your left the other thing that this has got which I I can't read it that my drawings are too small is there is a in front of this building and close to the well right in the middle of the front of this build is a thing that says eb-1 and it says rim and 35 ft I don't know bu that does elb stand for some kind of a a building or a sight ter yeah yeah let me put on looks like a catch yeah let me put on a I got about five pairs of glasses here let me try this pair hold on okay this is oh yeah 43 West State okay let me take a look okay hold on please oh boy I am blind all right this was let's take a look here all right here we are something something Le B yeah oh engineering land Solutions so this is petus this must be Mike is this Michael petus we have my drawing not very difficult for me to understand yeah let me let me take a peek at it hold on I gotta oh yeah it says elb elevation El's elevation I don't know benchmark one I don't know what do you think I don't know I have no idea what that means um can I uh request that the whoever this firm is hire an engineer and they need to uh disclose uh what septic systems are in the ground and their locations we can't be doing this type of um we can't be dropping a well in without knowing what is already there after that Lee as long as you're talking like that how do you how do you know what's involved next door at the at the subway right I agree absolutely that whole we need disclosure on that whole area well hold on now time out is there not a sar on that stretch of road there is but that's what Colleen said when we asked about it that Dave D roer said there's an application to hook it up but this one if you look at that drawing that you're looking at still you see at one point that existing SAS and that that's before you know an an old permit this were you know that store is 30 years old yeah and SAS wasn't in use that term wasn't used 30 years ago yeah let let me see hold on here I don't think Dan Darcy elected to ever tie in when he was running all power yeah he was pretty tight with the buck and he also has the lead on Subway so he wouldn't have spent the money on that either now now take a look now there's a cross-section of something on the right there looks to be it says general construction notes and again I I'm blind I'm sorry but I'm blind but I do see a structure it looks like a manhole with some sort of vent on it and there's no call out as to its designation but it seems somewhat suspicious that this might be what this eb-1 is actually you know what this looks like dick it looks like an oil water separator to me think about it yeah it soil water separator that's what that is well this in fact could be a leeching basin yep yeah yeah right next to as well yeah well that's an oil water separator because there's no there's no uh indication of outflow but it does have that angled pipe and that 45 degree angle that goes down about 2third into the water is typical of a of a oil water separator I think that that Lee's right we really we need to know something with proper scale what what's within what's within this circle that we you know again you have no idea whether whether uh Subway even has is connected to the SCH Yeah well yeah it says all Inlet traps to be constructed in accordance with 248 cmr2 and that's the plumbing code see that's the plumbing code reference so this indeed is an oil water separator shown on the right side in cross-section that's an oil water separator but it also could be a leasing basis well I don't think so but that's okay but anyway you're right let's I think we shouldn't approve this until we get a little more information yeah and that this this shouldn't be sing this this thing be coming from a well driller this needs to be documentation from an engineer saying this complies with all the regulations and tells us what's in those Circle yeah yeah again Call engineering land solution lead Master is a phone number oh yeah see it's MP that's Michael petus call petus up ask him what's going on not that's not our job colen should just CL the guy that is Joe Dil and say Jo you need to get the the engineering part of this done okay Ken should be the person that follows engineering up do you think now when did petus submit this to David de roer it's dated March 14th of this year that might have been I think we should I think you're right we should just say this this is this is an engineering project that needs to have everything that's involved yes y too many unknowns here so the next one that we have is the holler installers permit renewal for clean septic so we've got yeah it's a installers permit and a hollers permit are we going to just approve that one those the two of them I'm fine with that that's fine yeah I'm good on that I am too Colleen so that's yeah the next one looks like it's just a certificate of of compliance this is for 12 troopy Street this is Allan White sent it in this is Leo Fugler property did you inspect this thing a new a new system yes everything's fine there it's got It's got ties and everything to it yeah that's his grandson's house yeah so are we so you're okay with that Lee yes thank you are you 12 try I'm good dick 12 TR all right and then the 142 Carver Street that was done in 2022 in September Lee so oh boo right was that a Philip Boo or something like that uh but yeah he did that and he was trying to get some tax credit or something full thing which is way way way too late to get it but it's it's it's it's two years old but it's fine yeah so all this so this is is this the one that the I think this is the guy that was your friend still was or guy from Conservation Commission or isn't this the one that the guy didn't have any room around his house and he wanted to put a plastic tank in oh that's Paul bolo his brother's selectman yes that's Pao okay but I don't know that that is that the same property yeah yeah because Paul wanted to yeah he wanted to put a plastic tank in because he didn't have access to put a concrete tank behind the house yeah but I don't know that that's what this is he's on Carver Street yeah way up on the right yeah way up on the right yeah around 120 130 up that way 140 I think yes well how about 142 that sounds like it exactly yeah Paul boo so that was okay oh so I jumped that one that's the one I jumped yeah I think that I think that's okay uh Colleen it was I was up there but it was about two years ago yeah he he had to put ballast in for the tank some some anchor ballast yeah so we're gonna prove that one bill you're okay with that yeah and I have to calling so that's a okay okay y now we're getting into we're getting into the point that I'm getting tired yeah yeah yeah I I move we postpone the discussion on the uh on the Range until next time well we didn't do that but we've got these St title five so we should at least if that's the only thing we're all right let's let's do those okay let's just what about uh the well permit for the lot 4 E Street you approve the septic design tonight he came in today with the application we should be able to approve that as long as it's installed according to the design that we approved right that's right yes I Lee are you okay with that yes thank you okay colen that's what we do to okay good thank you it's installed according to the design that we approve okay we've got can we is oh we've got something that we do have to at least deal with with the title five uh 276 ammer Street it's a reinspection by Allen Weiss that's the marijuana house right that's correct so that's the same thing we we just did a whole bunch of work on that just a little while ago I can't believe that they have to do another Title Five I think selling it again just a three to six month reinspect I think oh maybe after they oh that's what he's doing this is to make sure the lead field work because it was abandoned right they re they get to the house put the system back to life and it's functioning appears to be functioning just fine okay so yep we could just accept that right yes please how about you Bill are you okay with that yeah that's good are there people living in the house now le there are full family yep okay that's good yes yep yep no problem seven School Street Nick tet passes that one tit five y That's that nice house would the with the Barnes around it h and beam beautiful yeah and it had this one had enough underneath the leak field right that's correct yes so are we okay with that y fine we are build you okay with it yeah does he have his three- foot water table separation yes it said on the drawing that he did right that's correct okay and it was more than now we got 241 chapy Street is a house and a garage two different ones there's a it looks like the house what Greg everon asked me a question and he he did one that he asked me a question that he did T he asked another question let's the one that Colleen fielded that they've got a a 46 year old septic tank that's that's decayed enough that the outlet baffle needs to be replaced and Greg at if we were G to just let him replace the outlet baffle or make him replace the tank and I sent the thing Colleen said I thought the board would say that if a tank is 46 old and rotted enough that the baffle is rotted out that we're not going to say try to fix up a 46 year old tank that's that's corroded replace it you know it's funny he he sent some photographs of that the photos actually looked pretty good from the photos but again that's just a very those are just two snapshots but I was curious that that Tank's actually 46 years old did you look at the photos I didn't see that I didn't look colen did he send a couple of photos he's got um color photographs got Inlet baffle leech pit Outlet baffle of tank but on that my feeling is concrete 50 years old it's got oh yeah yeah if it's 50 years old but we should pull it out yeah what do you think Lee I I voiced that opinion uh at the time of the title five uh the concrete was somewhat robust on the inlet side but again like every other tank the outlet side was uh showing its age since the baffle was no longer there well is it is it is is it fairly straight forward to replace the tank or is it going to be a big burden on on people uh the gentleman who owns the house indicated that uh he was in financial sprits uh and I told him he could wait till the house was sold uh and do it just before the sale yeah uh but that more likely than not uh there would not be an option to leave it where it was was um and I time to fix it instead of passing it on to the next guy yeah yeah unless he wants to hire a structural engineer and do a thorough structural review which will probably cost him as much as putting in the new tank so besides he's gonna ask us the other half of the story is is is the leech field yeah now here's the Le here's the question that Greg asked on a perk this I didn't know this it was coming here but now I know it is is that the leech it's a leech Pit and the pit he said the bottom of the pit is 34 in above what he thinks is ledge or it could be rocks in that area there certainly are big rocks but right across from that Andre is smashing rcks to make you led to make crap Rock so there's also Rock in there and and I told Greg that it wouldn't surprise me that the Board of Health would be saying looking down at a the bottom of a hole at the bottom of a Le pit on some ra wavy rock that saying that it really is 34 Ines and not 36 inches and replace it that the board is is very likely to say you can't measure it that closely and that we think that's 36 in the thing is he's saying where rock is did he Pine us to where the water table is oh we didn't see he didn't say it that there was water table above the rock well the water table has to be above the rock unless The Rock has tremendous fractures in it which is possible in that area or in the event that it's a stone yeah and then Le when you were looking into there what did you think on the driveway going in property there's a um hand dug well and the water table was measured uh the Wells on the adjacent neighbor property we pulled the cover off and put a tape down there it's no one uses that well it was used for irrigation of a garden but that water table went right back to the 34 to 35 inch measurement for sure under that system oh let me let me get this right then this is an old leech pit how how deep is the leech pit how many feet roughly um no Jeepers we were up on a rise maybe maybe six or seven feet up all right so so so the the there's probably a foot of cover over the Lee Pit and the Lee pit is 7 feet deep oh the Lee pit itself was about 7 ft higher than the um driveway where the hand dug well is it's it's surrounded by concrete tiles four foot across and as you walk towards the guy's house you have to the hill increases as you walk up it by about 7 feet the Le pit total depth is maybe around of jeers um Greg has a measurement of it it's probably around four and a half or five feet down total so it looks like a top of the Le oh the bottom of the pit so undulating property you got a lot of elevation change on this property then yes I don't know but for sure for sure we're in the 34 inch or more range well the question is when you opened up the leech pit was it empty or did how much water was in the leech pit when you said there was only six inches of water wow it wasn't there wasn't much water um because you know D failure Criterion for leech pits believe it or not they can have water up to within 6 in of the out the uh the inlet believe it or not they can be almost full and still past this was quite a bit lower than that for sure wow so hydraulically it's fine then that's my feeling would be when as soon as you say Lee 34 or more I'm going in and measuring that my rule of thumb is rounded to the nearest Foot well you can't do that but it certainly certainly if if you look at say that be playing around with two inches that go this is dirt in Little Rock and I think my feeling was you just call that 34 it's Clos enough to 6 that it could have been 36 that's right that's right yeah I mean out of out of fairness I I would agree yes that's right that's right so okay so that one we're we're saying replace the tank but but the leach feels okay y y okay and I'm getting at a spot where it's it's after and I'm not okay anymore is is um is this for the house one or both which one is the tank being replaced both uh the house system is new this is for the garage what the garage replace the tank the yeah yes we accepted we accepted the house but the garage is going to end up needing a new tank new tank okay got it got it that's correct okay probably at I'm gonna ask that we at least do something on the the rod and glove gun at the gun and bow club that what it is yeah Grandy bow and gun okay and my suggestion I'm gonna sneeze because excuse me go my suggestion is that according to the papers that we've got the Bel Town Board of selectman I think they and we certainly have a letter from from Steve William saying he was wanted to be now involved with the the bullets in Felder toown I'm read that the District Attorney's office is involved the two police departments are involved the state fleets are involved that we have plenty of involvement right now with El elected the and police officials and legal officials that the gry Board of Health intervention at this point is going to be counterproductive and we should let let the people that are actively working on it bring it to some kind of a conclusion and then if we choose that we need to intervene at a later date we can't what do you guys think about I would I would agree we don't have the um background or expertise in this endeavor to help in the [Music] investigation I agree I don't think we bring a lot to the table frankly you know I know we're all concerned and I'm sure we can come up with a ideas but at this point we don't bring a lot to the table let's let these folks take take a crack at it and see if they can come up with a solution yeah so we're all in agreement yeah yeah good with that that I think we should all head to bed very very good I can't tell you you have to go I can't tell you you have to go to bed I I do it's it is my bedtime it is okay my that Mak that makes all four of us okay okay good night okay well done thank you all all the best okay bye bye bye bye