##VIDEO ID:EV5ox1PrGzY## [Music] I'm going to call the grany planning board meeting to order November 25th at 5:40 p.m. I'm going to jump right to the the uh anr see we've kept you waiting here okay uh can you just if you don't mind come up and present what you're trying this is on try Street yeah 62 try app for uh anr for my mom's old house I got the application check there I got um these are all copies that you folks I guess uh require corre I think there may be five of the regular prints I don't know if all five or four is fine four is fine yeah two my yeah should ask two mile hours I think five prints if I could maybe keep one so I could have y absolutely okay so this is on try Street they own all this property here and they're cutting out the the homestead correct right 4158 scores yep plenty there plenty of Frontage meets all the appears to meet all the requirements look at I am I know that first house on TR T say come from is that your fathers yeah with my mom and dad they passed away and M in the family and we want to sell it but we want to keep for I'm sorry to hear that I talked to him that one time in life oh they he uh he showed me how to make a ston wall oh okay are you the fell that has the cape up the yeah up the road okay I walk by your house he says you can fix that if I can do it you can do it well if you ever need a good Stone racing my uh my brother-in-law he's been here from Portugal probably about seven years but he works construction and if you need it that he's a special te nor country okay I'll unless anybody has some questions here I'll entertain a motion to approve the anr I'll make a motion to approve the anr as presented I'll second the motion have a second any further discussion all in favor today's the 25th right yes y shake that foot yeah a buddy of mine's father okay um same thing Mason there's a lot of stuff for forun that's well I live uh next door and I have a wall that I built actually my balance my dad that's a little more I think he capped the top still looks good after he said it was about 3 86 when he built the house yeah 48 I with I did the hand me this we'll get this I did that one Brooklyn yep well it's a nice shot there you shouldn't have should have a should be youever get a nice yeah we love it we love that was those lots were all for sale at the same time and when I when I fired about it somebody snapped it out from under me oh yeah and a lot of people stop I'm happy we're over yes I think that's the right on this the fell that built that nice big say brown and black that one that's does he own both those lots I believe so yeah I think he bought them off a ray McKenzie well when we first built again that was all a lake oh yeah the Beavers had backed it up it was kind of neat watching the water the wildlife down the be stay pretty quick feel like they got extra he does he'll keep the three and no you should have four four plus the well you take the one of the myars where to foray was I work now you say recording I got to bring it through registry of deeds is that what it is I my Bel um yeah I mean typically you would just take the myar it's relatively easy to just say this yeah and then they'll record it just as long as it has what it needs from the board yeah the signature okay usually it's a surveyor something that goes down and doesn't but yeah okay oh you have one okay so we're good gentlemen we're good than good luck thank you thank you have a good night okay so this was a letter that the the building commissioners sent to the select board with concerns with the the uh sory dwelling units I'm not so sure there's anything for us to do with I think it's the question of whether and if this is something that you won't explore further what towns are doing to address adus is allowing the planning board or zba to continue to have a process where they are looking at least at a site if not then it's all done by the building department so then you will not see any adus so we don't we don't review residen that's correct there's a there's a there's bylaws out there that discuss setbacks so on and so forth but we've never gotten the only time we ever get involved with anything residential is if there's a an accessory building that exceeds the 12200 Square ft and that's specifically a barn or garage that's over 12200 Square fet an accessory building nonattached so unless I'm missing something I don't know why we would we don't get involved where a shed goes we don't get involved where a building goes if it's under 12200 square feet um we don't get involved in whether or not the septic system has the capacity I don't know if I want to get involved from from a from the board's perspective I the state's mandating that they're allowed um and as long as they meet the setbacks unless unless someone wants us to to to file an article to change setbacks because of it but our setbacks are I mean I don't think you want to put one of these units what's our setback 15 and 15 on the sideline 40 off to the frontage 15 40 off the front and 20 off the rear 20 off the rear I don't right I know yeah it's not different so what you would be relying on is in your dimensional uh dimensional table is structures other than dwellings because You' have to to treat this as an accessory right so the setbacks and the regulations will be based on that and those match exactly as for single family oh I think um I think that the only thing to that may be different it is different is if there's an existing single family home on a parcel that is not in a residential zone so it's a currently a non performing residential use in let's say your industrial zone or your commercial Zone you would allow for a Adu and it would have to meet um the dimensional regulations as stated in um structures other than dwellings in those particular dists the other consideration is um well how how exactly does the Mass General law read allowing the adus so um the there back of that I think letter is there's um a from KP law there is a summary of that law and if you look at page one number one a there is a new definition of lead you which requires um is basically is there's a new definition and the town will be operating with this new definition the town has not identified Adu as the use in their zon bylaw does not need to do that however What towns like to do is at the just because it is a use that would be allowed in accordance with so so to what you said you know if there's a pre-existing non-conforming use in other words a residential setting in a commercial Zone which we do have that then if it's residential and it would it could put the Adu on we wouldn't have any say over that you wouldn't yeah Adu could be allowed wherever there is a single family yeah so I I that's why I'm saying I don't see where there's anything I think one of the one of the protections that Town's typically include in that is not allowing that Adu to be used for any shortterm ter rental and spelling that out um for Airbnb type uses um it is specifically for housing any sort of you don't currently have a b right so you're not necessarily addressing adus so so what's the purpose of the adus why did the state it's to had be able to develop to construct housing where where you have a single family home and that was the intention the law was to be able to construct additional housing for what purpose because there the state has identified the need for housing units so so so they're dictating that to us that's correct and if let's say you decide to build one to house a family member or or or or let's just stick with the family family member passes now you're stuck now you're sitting here with a a home that you just spent $50,000 or $250,000 as an as an Adu now you can't do anything mov can't rent it can't Aon be be you would you would be able to rent it okay what restrictions would what restrictions would the planning or zon want to put on that I think really the only restrictions that the planning if they want to is to look at the design to ensure that um they have a opportunity to address the way that it looks and that it meets your typical um site plan criteria that's really it I mean if you want none of the review to go through the planning board then it's dictated by state law and you just will not have a zoning bylaw that spells out what is um required um yeah so I mean the thing is you don't currently have a zoning bylaw the towns that are amending their zoning byla are trying to bring it into conformance but still have the opportunity to review them um so yeah it would be a permitted use no matter what but if the if the there was no review bya a board like yours or the zba it would all be done at the building department just conforming when z um with the dimensional regulations uh as they allow to use and um and um what was it the and yeah whether or not there was a presence of a single V yeah I'm not so sure you know we I'm not sure you have the authority to say well it's got to be at least a two acre building you don't you don't have that Authority it is very specific to the way that it looks to be honest and that's all subjective how it looks yeah you may like something I don't vice versa it's a tiny H it look like a do yeah so I mean it's got to be what 900 square feet or less so the way that the law reads it's 900 square feet or half the size of the principal dwelling whichever is less who confirms that it would be the building department building department yeah but obviously if it came if there was a process where the planning board was the first to want to take a look at the site plan um then those conversations would happen at the planning board but I I think a lot of this is going to it's going to self-manage itself to the septic system the well setback all has to be able to support that's correct so I me what about driveways that come into play I'm sure it does but I don't I don't know certainly can't drive over with sutic system I mean I don't know what type of regulations with the planning board we don't we don't see anything residential now as it is you're right no that's not it's atypical it's not typical that you would be reviewing any sort of single family home as it's as it is a a principal dis uh dwelling um again you know this is okay let's let's say um we want to review it for adequate parking requires one parking space that's what the state law says doesn't have to be paid doesn't I mean it can't be on street parking but there's already I I don't think that we need involved Des um let's see I mean I think the other the other component is sure if you are okay with the planning board not seeing a Adu as it is dictated in state law but want to provide an opportunity for those applicants who are looking at adus greater than 900 square feet or greater than the required amount based on the state law then you would need to create a permitting mechanism for that which because you currently do not have one um so so the state saying by right 900 or less 900 and above they're saying they can't be any more than half the size of the current well 900 above there's no that you cannot do that under the state zoning it's not consider so there is no way for a resident there's no permitting mechanism for anything accessory dwelling unit greater than 900 square F feet or greater than half of the size of the or greater than half to S correct okay so so if it was a th000 square foot home couldn't go you couldn't go more 500 sareet okay okay correct so that would be you couldn't go more than 500 square ft and that would be permitted without any sort of so if you got a 2,000 square foot it's 900 yes I'm all for allowing these especially if they're if they're being built to take care of Aging family or dis disabled family or I'm all for it but I don't I don't feel like I should I want to be regula what somebody's doing on their private property if the state's already saying you can do it I don't want I I mean I'm curious I have questions like how how do these adus get water in a town like this where we're primarily well water you would need to demonstrate it in your site plan to the building inspector and to those that would need to approve a structure like that so like Jim said you would need to get your permits from the Board of Health as well but it it it's really what what is the planning board's role if any to say this makes sense here and really you can't I mean it's this makes sense here and the criteria by which you would say so let me just give you an example of a community that had an AVU bylaw but are are amending it to make sure that it conforms to the state act it's not relying on the criteria of the site plan approval they only have four criteria that they are acting upon to ensure that it's an allowed under cycline revie the Adu shall minimize tree vegetation and soil removal and grade changes architectural style should be compatible with the existing principal dwelling on the subject Factory Adu shall be serviced with adequate water supply and Sewer Septic Service the plan shall demonstrate adequate parking as required hereunder and shall maximize convenience and safety for vehicular and pedestrian movement within the property and in and in relation to adjacent ways the planning board for that Community is using those four criteria to approve an Adu and as you know site plans typically you're already going through you're going to typically approve it with either some minor conditions or if they don't have the materials that they need then you deny it and the expectation is they going to come back with a with a conforming site plan so that being said they'd be looking for the planning board to sign off on it and the planning board to to assure that the septic system we have to go to the Board of Health make sure the septic system complies the well complies with the the additional unit the parking is sufficient sufficient the thing that when you approve site plan approvals you are not approving the you have you say that it shall comply with those regulations you're not necessarily waiting for those approvals you're saying that it shall comply with that so after the planning board acts you're not typically involved with septic review or you know water and and and that kind vegetation REM you may be you know you may be discussing Landscaping but to an extent that that it makes sense within the context of that particular development on the property but that Community has four criteria by which they are assessing an Adu and addressing um the applicant when when an application comes in I guess you know based on the request and the select board letter the response from the planning board if there is none or if there is one that suggests that the planning board is fine with allowing the state regulations to supersede you know what processes look like and that the building department will ensure that it meets all of the state law I think one of the things that if you're looking if you have some foresight with regards to accessory dwelling units and introducing the concept to the community is maybe addressing this the this fact in the future that you will need a special permit for anything greater than 900 fet or greater than half the size of the principal unit in ACC you know that wouldn't would be in addition to um the sa La so I don't know I guess it it really is up to the board on how they may want to look at creating accessary dwelling so that's a little different because the the state's mandating what we what we need to what we have to allow provided it makes us meets a certain criteria if if this board wanted to go above and beyond that we could do that now that would have nothing to do with what the state's mandating if we proposed an article to the town to approve um these adus up to, 1500 square F feet with a special permit with a special permit presum yeah that's a presumption like if you wanted to but we're not being asked to do that no you're not we're just asked to what we're being asked to do right now is to review it what the state's mandating to see if we if there's any input that we feel we should and I can't we we don't typically get involved in residential a a half acre or a full acre lot building lot you're going to have a time fitting an ad in by meeting setbacks and and and the septic system now if you've got five acres and you want to put an 8 I could care L sure you know what I mean if there's there's plenty of room for two acres or whatever you got plenty of room for yeah there's going to be already things that are prohibited to develop them so you're right you know I can't think of anything that I I feel that the town we should be concerned with on the town's behalf when we're not doing residential enor if it goes over 12200 square feet then it that kicks in in this case anything over 900 Square fet they would need a uh a approval from zba there's a process in place it just happens to be that the house is 2,000 square fet and they want to put in a full th000 square feet so they go to zba and ask for a an amendment or not an amendment but a um you know for the for the appeal on that and still be than ad you and then and then to go to the appeal through zba then they would they would ask us to take a look at the site plan to see if there's going to be any so the process is there for greater than for greater than otherwise we don't really have any say so it's your suggestion that if it's greater than if if the planning board is waving a process by which it would take a look at a site plan for a an accessory dwelling unit that meant the state standard then if someone wanted to come in with an accessory dwelling unit that was greater than the state what the state standards were they would file uh file with the board of appeals zoning board of appeals a submission perit yeah so we would have to create a b a basically a use so so that that no because because zba would say it's not allowed period or they'd say yeah we'll allow it there's some circumstances here hardship whatever will allow it provided planning board looks at it that there's no detrimental impact to it just like we do with 1,200 square feet of an accessory building well you do that because you have a biome you have a use that says well this this would unless this would kick in the same way though what would the use be I mean you would probably say a res an accessory dwelling unit and you would have to provide a definition or resident accessory to a residential principal dwelling unit that is greater than 900 square ft and maybe that's your cut off and you miss the people that you know cannot meet between the five whatever the people that are not able to meet that less than the principal unit yeah I mean it is I don't know I guess I would seek an a legal opinion as to whether or not you could rely on the power of the zoning Bo of appeals to say that there is no zoning law that dictates the process by which an accessory dwelling unit in the town of Grandy could bypass the requirements of the state bylaw of the state legislation so because there's no zoning by law I don't know if the zba can be that entity that says you are requesting a special permitter of variance from a state act a state law but again I think that's a future conversation on whether or not you would want those larger residential D those accessory glowing it could be the other end of the spectrum though too a guy lives in a thousand foot house M square foot house and wants to build a 900 square foot ad that might in our eyes might be allowable not my not by right not by right right it could be I mean that's a that's that's a policy and we we talk about this briefly when we were looking at the Barns and garages for even a greater amount and having the planning board bypass a certain up to like, 1500 I can't remember but we were looking at a greater size because we were getting a series of permits that was like we're just issuing special permits and nobody they won't be under so but I think you know the conversation ended there you know but yeah it's a it's a policy question it's a definitely something where you'd be where so so here would be my take on this unless there's some compelling issue that we need to address I would which I can't think of right now because we typically don't get involved in residential I would say Let It Ride I would tell the select board that we feel that we feel that that the the current bylaws would help navigate these per I mean what are we going to do I'll give you what would we do change the setbacks and say no now we want 50 foot setbacks to make them to make them they're not it's not feasible you can't do it because the setbacks are two two so that would be why would we do that I would say leave it everything the way it is and and after a year if there becomes an issue or something we say you know what maybe we should take a look at this this has come up once out of 10 yeah I I mean I think that's a convers like I think to your point it's the town does not currently have an accessory dwelling unit by law the state has dictated one so the building department will be reviewing these adus as they come in they'll need to conform with the underlying zoning District District um and the planning board you know will not be reviewing them I mean that's what the gist is um and I mean I'm I'm trying to also see what Clarity the town needs to have and why if if and why the the planning board needs to be involved with a review in the first place because it is a a a a state law that you are requiring them they need to conform they need they have these particular requirements the building department will ensure that those uh requirements are met why I mean I don't know I think you bring up a great point is if there currently is no review process why going to need to um especially since there's really nothing no particular characteristics that you can really dictate right um it's going to need setbacks it's going to have a parking space that's going to be less than 900 square fet for less than half of the size of a principal unit that's the way that's going get approved there's nothing there that says it has to be on one floor can be on two floor can be on two floors it could be detached product it can be attached I mean I I think what we can do as you mentioned I think it's crafting a letter that suggests that there was a conversation with took place today with the board and um for the purposes of the board not necessarily getting being involved with the review process of a single family home um the new legislation through the state law covers you know the requirements that are needed for an accessory dwelling unit to be developed here in town that there is there is a suggestion that there's no bot that needs to be explored um obviously another entity can create a bylaw and have the public it would need to have a public planning to so if the select board thought that that was what they needed or what the town needed they could craft one and then bring that to the planning board as a typical public hearing and you would review it but if the planning board you know if the if the a new conversation with the planning board is then there is you feel like you don't necessarily need to address a br a zon vium then you know just kind of leave it there someone if they want to graft something would take the mantle what do you think [Music] Jason so that's for adus when there's some things on here about the storage too that was another request to be to clarify storage um in the zoning which not really clarified these are your ever so popular public storage facilities that communities have been talking about as as far as the ways Define criteria to site them Intel um you know I think as you read there it has been permitted in the past under services with which in accordance with the the letter from the Building Commissioner is not typical to you know say that you're equating Public public Ser a public storage facility as a service well so the second piece of it they've asked us to look into which I agree there's a lot of there's a you know he may have run into this recently which I believe he did with with the um storage unit at on right right next to fin Hill I I think we take a look at that when we're looking at everything else that we've got I don't know if this is a priority over some of the other things we're talking about changing in the I mean I think I don't know if it's a priority I think a lots of communities are having to deal with it as a priority because they are coming on board and coming fast that's like the new land uses where can we put a public uh storage facility um so what I can do is we recently in another Community adopted it as a use so it's an a you if you adopt a use and just say that it's allowed where you allow these where you would imagine allowing those tyes of facilities um not necessarily coming up with any new criteria um because it would just need to meet the dimensional regulations but how they typically addressed it is allow having a use that way you don't have to question this facility and whether or not they would be permitted in this particular area well the so the this was a Maran Steve Maran right and what he was doing was putting up garages they weren't just storage they were they were basically going to be used well hopefully being used for um trades people sure which I thought was a good idea because if if you're running out of your running a small business out of your Dwelling Place Like These are are affordable and they get you out of a residential stud right I just put this on the list with all the other things we need to that that's all I do that's an easy one yeah I can we gotta have hearings we can't just we so what we briefly talked about this maybe at two meetings ago where maybe um either if the board wants to have a meeting one more meeting this month in December or if you know there's just communication that we'll have a couple of Workshop meetings where we're kind of talking about maybe some general zoning byla amendments um that would be primed for Tom meeting in the spring um to do that in January um at least present a list um well did didn't we apply for a grant to get some money back you did um I don't know the if that was awarded yet there's going to be another opportunity which um if the board wants to maybe at this meeting just take an action that says have Ken prepare a dlta um depending on if the board is meeting I don't know if the board is meeting but there was just a recent announcement about District local technical assistance which is another Avenue for funding for um that would fund our at pvpc time to do certain things and plans um review zoning do zoning cursory review of our V so yeah that that was I'm hoping that the town receives that larger Grant fund to do that because there probably would be some engagement around this but in the absence of that Grant if does not get that my suggestion would be to do a review using DTA and I can help Craft um that that would be like part one of the of the work but I I think part of the conversation is too is even after the review we have identified some changes Miner changes you know maybe some this introduction of this particular use if the board wants to do also looking at those particular bylaws and doing it for Tom meeting I'm all in favor of seeing if there's any you know see if there's another smaller Grant out there to help us okay what I don't want to do is some of the things that have been done in the past is going going to a town meeting and then having it flipped around J too much is done on the floor that you right and I want to make sure that we do a review We I don't know if what'll come out of the review I know there's a lot of things in there that need to be and when and that need to be adjusted sometimes when you adjust one thing it has an impact on something else that's why I want to make sure that we do this we do it do it right with some help yeah you know we're not experts here we're you know part-time board so we can get somebody in there like yourself with or another colleague to help us navigate through this yeah so yeah so yeah I think that's a a great Point um so we will I you know I will help craft something that the town can send for for that particular Grant especially if we don't know when that other Grant is that Grant award is coming um but the other Grant award will be a little more robust and you know we could definitely have more conversations around that and it's a longer time frame um I guess the other one of the other points that is that we will need to address is um the town will be moving forward on the storm water Amendment so there is a town bylaw that needs to be passed there's currently nothing in the books but um you know EPA has said that the town needs to have an appropriate B by then with that said um there probably will be need to needing to address some amendments um to the town zoning and the subdivision regulations in parallel to so I probably will be working with the town on and ensuring that the bylaw gets past the storm water bylaw but at the same time identifying if there is a need to bring forward any zoning to Aline and you have the bylaw has to the the the storm water has to be passed first that's correct I know Dave Dave's been working on that yeah and so yeah I I was in town on Wednesday um and briefly had a conversation about the approach that the toy want to take I think they're getting some clarity from EPA as to the language they can use um but the thing that also needs to be passed is in the store in the regulations it's it really is just the mention of adhering to the standards of the storm waterer viol so it's as you were mentioned Jim it's it's bringing attention to the way that it's currently written in the zoning in the uh subdivision Rags that need to align with now a new town byon um that will address that so if any bylaws come to fruition it will be those it will you know because I'll be working with Dave and you know whatever that particular process looks like we'll have identified any changes to the zoning and subdivision ranks yeah it would be good to know if for the town to vote on it to to approve it they would probably want to know what the impact is going to be sure what's the what's the what's the other what's the flip side of this what does it if you don't pass what does that mean right so um so that's the other kind of thing that is happening but I will move forward with the the grant that comes up probably just need signature well the last thing I want to do is drink something to the floor and and not be real comfortable with it and then have it amended and amended and amended yeah I'd like to be able to say this is these are the the articles that we're looking to change on the bylaws this is why this is this is what other towns similar size have done and based on what each of these articles are each of these amendments to our bylaws are um some cases that categor categorize them to be in one article right then and then in other situations keep them separate so that one doesn't drag the rest of them down right there's a strategy to the way those are passed past or denied I just don't right don't um try and keep them all it's yeah it's a site plan review on storm water then just keep all that stuff together it's if it's adus let's keep all the ad stuff together okay what else do we have so you have approval of um two sets of minutes that I brought to the last meeting um that we didn't have a quum to act on those have a those were meeting minutes October 28th 2024 September 23rd have if you don't have copies of those don't see them here [Music] their sh ch okay I with a motion to approve the minute of October 28th 2024 as written second second any further discussion all in favor i i i motion carries and I'll make a motion to approve the minutes for September 23rd 2024 as presented have a second I'll second any further discussion all in favor I I motion carries I do have one in CHS um I so I was here on Wednesday and I was talking to a prospective applicant for um expansion of uses in at the McDuffy school so there is compensation right now should be forthcoming but just working with the applicants very early in the process such as addition of housing for the instructors and and um Recreation space so that's for coming now you had this conversation on a just somebody bumped into or somebody that actually formally came into town someone came into town and I said up a time um and I met them at Town Hall just navigating the current regulations and also telling them of what they probably will need to do which is go to concom there's some things you need to clarify there but um what I'm hoping is point of the conversation is that there would be as as typical with any forthcoming site plan or special permit conversation with Town Strat um for you know Clarity on codes just so that it's efficient as possible with rev yeah I would think that we we would want to help streamline anything we could do to help help them move what they're what they're looking to do over there they're they're a pretty important asset to this town right now yes so that's the intent um it's been a little challenge but I think we're getting there um yeah and then hopefully I have a I think the intent is to file something in the in early New Year but they're still kind of in their like infancy of this is the site what can I do here things like that where can I do it and this is a architect not local so so that's just that that not okay anybody have anything else I'll entertain a motion to adjourn a motion to adjourn I'll second that motion any further comments all in favor I I I motion carries meeting thank you