##VIDEO ID:yxqhNLOjIPQ## 450 no 448 uh first question is the agenda are people happy with the agenda any objections to the agenda as presented without objection the agenda is adopted as distributed September minutes anybody have any corrections or additions I do not hearing nobody speaking the minutes from the September 3rd meeting are now do distribute next item on the agenda is not unusually the golf report hi Paul and Steve um yeah there's something tracking there is that uh I Craig's M oh okay he's on he's on good yeah um yeah so we're kind of at the end of the season here we we uh Park we closed the course today and airify the greens which is kind of like the uh opposite of the spring Robin you know um so we're pretty much pretty much done we're going to the weather's weather's been good so people have been trickling in um seems like we're looking at our records from last year and just business just really dwindled off the pattern we're seeing now is you know we're we're we're at the facility and we have like no business business barely any business at all until later in the afternoon then it gets crowded like uh so that's been the pattern that's fine um and like I said we were aying today we had a few people that came out U and we're disappointed they couldn't couldn't golf but you know no tea times it's not you know it's October so you know we feel bad about that but um you know it's will be opened up for you know people members and stuff or people that want to play beyond that um and we'll just see how that goes um we're we're um aying other things but that won't really interfere with play the greens are pretty much where you have to shut down um so I can't I can't really think of anything else where our revenues are good we had a had a good month and looking at the total years now numbers we thought were going to be struggling to meet last year's numbers P I'm asking to join it hasn't oh sorry we're trying to reach last year's numbers which were you know progressively better than had been so then we uh uh we had a bad it's trippy the captions will appear now got one second turn his volume down while we're waiting for them um the T boxes are really hard do you think we might arate them too yeah those be air rated uh basically we uh you know we we just went into this dry dry dry condition everything had been really really good tea boxes are something that our tea boxes aren't that great but they were doing really good this year but yeah they they got hard there a little bit at the end and we we kind of increased our irrigation on them but we uh we we have to be conservative there too cuz we only have so much water to deal with for uh um so that that's kind of the condition there but if I have to pull the captions up myself I know how to do that from the settings oh it's not the captions it's this is feeding back I'm trying to turn off the volume oh I don't the button on the side of the phone there is but it's not it's not working put it in a jar my mailing address put your postcard that'll do it okay 56 cents once upon a time we had captions for all the screens didn't we are there butt I don't recall yeah I'm the only one probably used it yeah s to God there we go great sure sorry about that no it's okay thank you and then oh I got to turn on the cap I saw Craig's picture up there one point he's here he's on okay oh I see him good hi Craig I take it that I I didn't see you at the time you didn't object to the minutes of the agenda did you no okay good go Paul it's ball's still in your cor yeah so on the T boxes yeah we're going to be verifying those as well um as far as the condition conditions of them when gets dry like that there's some things we could try like putting wedding agents we do that on our greens um that might might help that situation we can try that next season um and so yeah that's what we can do there uh yeah other than that I mean I can't really think of anything we're that's different or that we're doing we're going to be you know continuing to try to have accessible play to whatever degree we're having you know we have limits as far as Manning the clubhouse that we're not going to be Manning the clubhouse like normal hours maybe on the weekends or something but you know Eric's uh really my only person there I trained one of our other per people to come in and and run the the till there but uh on weekends they won't be able to do it cuz they're like goer fans so they're always gone on golfers down to the golfers every week weekend and so uh yeah we're kind of we're kind of at the end here um I do some contract work with other courses at uh in October so I'm kind of like gone and back but yeah we're we're getting all the work done that needs to be done to close the course and then um you know the final spray and roping off the greens and all that um and so typically this time of year people are you know want us to stay open we we hear that comment and and and then you know we explain the things we have to do and that will be around and that sort of thing and then the weather turns bad the next week and nobody comes out anyway so then we get our stuff done and on to the next season so but you know this case uh this this season it looks like you know we might have some weather that continues on through October and we'll try to accommodate that as best we can but uh for for most practical purposes our normal season's kind of over will the driving range be open if there's somebody there at the desk MH okay anybody have any other questions or comments about golf next life what's that next life Craig we're ready for the city council report thanks Paul thank you Paul thanks Paul okay um the main topic that we had was the second hearing on the approval of the tax abatement for the heights apartment building project um which passed so that has passed at the county level and it has passed at the city level and um according to I think the project is going to start in the spring of next year um I think that's pretty much the only ISS the only item on the agenda we had um remind me of what the height project is Craig it's the apartment building uh the the local investor that are investing in the apartment building that's going to be built uh just before you get to the harbor the the the the old Harbor Light that's top of the hill on the right that's the one where they had to go back to the drawing board because basements were too expensive yeah I think they re they redid some engineering on it um so they're working they're working with the Eda and a bunch of other uh uh people that are um helping to sponsor this with monies I RB Eda and through tax abatement is getting uh moved forward now uh for a spring build of next year wow anybody else have questions about the city council Craig is there any indoor parking in that development well I I don't know what the final plans look like I think that originally it was going to be all under ground parking under under the building I don't think they're going to do that now okay so they'll have to figure out an area for parking they have to have a parking spot for every unit plus uh I don't know how it is now it used to be handicapped for every 10 but I don't know what the rules are and all that yeah so they like have parking for what 36 40 40 some vehicles I guess um yeah I haven't seen a layout of the building or the um site yet that'll be coming I'm sure that's our neighbor it's our immediate neighbor I figured it was interested yeah mhm well we all drive by it all the time all the time yeah that's why we wonder about 61 anybody else have thoughts about the city council anything else you want to add Craig no Mr everything we had on the agenda was kind of a light agenda that night by the way they've succeeded in closing pretty well closing in the building before the cold weather comes yeah the municipal building the emphasis is going to be to get the the uh liquor store portion of it finished um ahead of the city hall part of it so they're going to um get the building buttoned up and then getting the walls uh up within the building and then I think they're going to shift over to the liquor store part and try to get that as functional as possible so that they can move into that as soon as possible okay if there's nothing else about city council we have the parks report which have been distributed yeah thanks Steve so no surprise September is great weather was great for camping and boating and we were able to gain quite a bit on our year-to dat tally we're in uh up 4% Now versus last year as of the end of September so that's more like it but yeah Big gain last month and still busy this month of course uh the PE colors right now are bringing people out and next three weekends are book solid so the whole Campground for the weekends yeah on the weekends yeah okay and maybe not the whole in the sense of the seasonal side of things being emptying out and most of those store on SES so they look still full but the guests aren't around uhuh several take them with though and we treat those sites as non-reserved first come first serve and we'll probably make use them for last minute people that are arriving off the road and yeah it's still busy now we've just changed office hours over to 8 to 4 and it's still busy at 4: so I had a hard time getting up to this meeting tonight just because of the where will you store the the the the potty trailer well that's a good question Steve we like if you're looking ahead on that we uh have options so I'm sure there's you know as far as where we'll store it could be at the shop I would imagine to be the most secure location Outdoors up at the new Public Works facility needs to be winterized but we'll store someplace safe um so yeah we've got the through mea weekend that's the October 20th that's a Sunday that's our last scheduled water day full service water day and it looks like we'll make it with the looking at a two we forecast it's all 60s and 40s and sunshine so we'll continue to be busy I have a feeling as long as the weather's nice so whose decision is it about the portable restroom ours City councils uhhuh Park Board you mean ours or city council cities city council okay I mean we would certainly we the parkboard can have influence or what you know we have option the city yeah I think so the story on this trailer is it's was a temporary solution to the for public bathrooms while City Hall was being rebilt City Hall will be open next season so that there won't be that immediate need for public restrooms and I would say a good thing in terms of the trailer not being really suited for the volume of use it got and the rough use guy we were plugging things and breaking things almost every week so during the busy season so we sort of proving it like is not a good idea moving forward to put back out into Boulder Park next summer for example porta potties yes permanent structure probably more likely and that would be in our realm of Boulder Park Planning and Development you know whether or not we go down that road of a brick and mortar plumbed is that a possibility that is a possibility yeah that's the I would say the foreshadowing for what's to come in Boulder Park for public restaurants is that a new thing or did I miss it or it's been talking about for several years so I missed it yeah but it hasn't been a front and center probably wasn't paying attention or something yeah it was on the discussion this late winter spring with the portable restroom idea where like oh wouldn't it be great just to have a plumbed facility there be wonderful yeah you not only missed it but I don't even know what the noun is here we're talking about well permanent portapotty oh like a park structure restroom yeah like a brick and mortar plumbed you know public restroom you mean not not really portable not temporary not portable not not holding tank kind of thing gets pumped out every so often not that no no plumity vable did you say plump Y where would that be yet to be determined all this is very subject to further planning and discussion it really wraps itself into a bigger conversation about Boulder Park and Coast Guard point so we're talking about the Boulder Park location okay mhm that's a great idea mhm well maybe but yes it has been and and would would you face it with stone rather than brick so that it looks like it belongs there depends how much you want to spend like a state park yeah we didn't get Boulder Park included in Legacy funding though so it'd be an outof pocket expense oh and yet maybe there's a tit fortat where because we do have Legacy funding to build out Park Campground infrastructure our Capital funds can be used for Boulder Park Redevelopment yeah but it's definitely a a bigger discussion with the community on priorities and the if you will master plan for Boulder Park Coast Guard parking lot the fact that you had all these problems with this portable one suggests there's a need for something there well and there has been porta potties in the past that yeah everyone loves to go cot and Boulder Park it seems and City Hall the new city hall to be more like the new city hall will be quite adequate in size and scope it'll have a family room it'll have a women's room with three stalls it'll have a men's room with a cell and two urals and so sort of a triple what it was used to for sizewise and facility wise and you know probably won't handle the bus that pulls up on a you know August weekend but definitely was some foresight in the new city hall facility being like adequate and year round and comfortable but again it's budgets it's cleaning it's maintenance it's a big discussion but like a WPA building out in Boulder Park indestructible building that the tourists can't mess up that would be the goal yeah like and I've always dreamed of like a dishwasher type of a facility where you just close the door and press clean I'm working on that patent AI it's all stainless and it's just got to be you could do it from home W the thing that I noticed going past Boulder Park people are is I know we've discussed this before but there's like no sidewalks no people are walking in the middle of the road both directions yes but I don't know who's under that cuz that's a bad stretch right there but County that's the kind of middle no man's land of it's county is Broadway so yes and no it's a city like starting at the parking lot and Boulder Park is City yeah but the Broadway itself is a county road so the actual sidewalk buildout would have to be a collaborative yeah I believe it would have to run through the county not that it could both sides will go out quite ways to mhm which is I think already there is it it's just not established at sidewalks right I'm going to need to stay awake during these meetings yeah really this a great idea yeah so anyway the the trailer b body the the no building like a real Stone faced WPA style building out on the point it's great that's how we're going to keep them coming back to the meetings I support Bob's idea copper roof yeah Timber looks like Gooseberry you know the oh yeah one on the point you know yeah maybe the CCC can come back to you got any WPA guys on staff who can do that well if we did we put them to work on the old walls on the old seaw wall That's oh yeah crumbling and the library arches so anyway I would say more discussion to come on the future of the trailer the options before us are just as described we can sell it on the used Market we can sell it back to the company that we bought it from they had a 12- month period where I called them this a month ago saying hey we're interested in the buyback program this fall no you have to wait till next April when we bought it it's a 12- month wait so there's that option in the spring uh We've also internally talked about keeping it as a temporary um facility when we're in the process of rebuilding Bath House 3 m and our Rec Hall you know how our master plan shows that as a top priority and so in the very near future like 2 years or so we'll be rebuilding Bath House 3 it'll be closed osed would this trailer be a suitable temporary alternative to that just for Camp guests mostly you know but you could Plum that in actually then right we could hook it up to our sewer yeah so we got options we being the city the park board feels strongly about certain things certainly voice up ultimately the city council will make the decision M it's just that the park staff ended up being the maintenance for that well we do bathrooms and we do them well so it was a if you're good at what you do well that my team is good for sure love it and we we owned it like Bath House 5 is what we nicknamed it so we we kept it nice and we got help from the streets department as well I'll bring a picture of a WPA bathroom in so you can see what I have in mind I know them yeah I mean they're Fox are great yeah and you can't damage them cuz they're all rock yeah they're beautiful I like it uh what else is going on so made my day reservations for 2025 hard to believe but November starts that season hence our next discussion about rates where we want to set the overnight rates if possible tonight but we'll get those plugged into the online booking machine because starting November 1st May 1st is available to arrive same scheme is the last season where it's on this rolling date 180 days prior to your arrival date hopefully that'll continue to get adopted or people you know now it's the second year of that so it shouldn't be a surprise to a lot of our Oldtimer guests so it's been a good system the dispersed demand I think has been effective uh seasonals have this month of January to get their deposit in so that's the off seon is there any uh do we know any more about our about our master plan and all the and the money and all that stuff is there anything happening on that or will there be no I haven't haven't spent any time on that during this busy season I feel it's more of a offseason that now that in after we set rates November through April we have the our time to I think focus in on that first phase of Bath House 3 recck Hall trail head parking lot and really put some development cost to that in preparation to apply for funding next spring and if we applied next spring we we would actually get the money a year later or during the fiscal year from July to July or I can't I'm not aware of the deadlines and timelines on that yet it it be good to know some point mhm yeah no it's just been nice to focus on the operations for the last few months you know obviously haven't had a lot of bandwidth for planning and it to not it too felt like we had some major projects going on between the boat launch and the landing and then with City Hall and even back to the highway the city itself has been really busy with big projects and so we've all just kind of taken a little breather on the park right now and focused on City Hall and the liquor store so we'll get back into it this offseason anybody have any other questions or comments about Park Park report related issues you know a WPA building it look great where that recck Hall is and a trail head yes and a trail could come down and through the Norway Pines and into the boy maybe maybe we can get it to look like one of the rocks that got thrown up on the sh I'll bring in pictures and show you what I have in mind go that's the fun of the I got the book with the pictures you're the brainstorm Bob great idea you're in charge you got it I love it this is great you got to get a crew together for us though isn't there a version of the Civilian Conservation Corp that in existence again there's the Minnesota conservation we get some of the work done by them I'd like them to come and pull tany but we'll work on the WPA a lot of that brick idea or sorry Stone no I think all right I think you're right about Boulder Park like such a prime location yeah not to build something ugly build something aesthetically rewarding and durable and indestructible and functional CU apparently people can't take care of things so you know there's always now on vacation so it'll be the only non-pa poty with a granite toilet seat you're seeing I just you walk into a public facility you treat it with respect you clean up and you leave most how hard is that not hard for 90% of the population okay well have we adequately aired the question of the uh WPA buing architecture it's coming I got the book I got the book all right so we'll see it at the next meeting no doubt old business is update on uh Solomon's public art project that we talked about a couple months ago that's right so I was anticipating this with our CC meeting in September just a week or so ago I I'm just a exo member of the CC I'm not a voting member um so I participated in the meeting just to kind of get the speed of moab's project with the CC I actually met with Moab on site at Boulder Park oh gosh the middle of September so several weeks back he was in town we met in Boulder Park and discussed two potential locations really on the ground being able to say could it be there or could it be here and so that's news I think to the both the CC and to this board is if we remember back to August you gave preliminary approval for the potential location so a lot of preliminary potential there um two locations that have been identified maybe what I alluded to in the August meeting which would be up in the rocks of the break wall where it's meeting the shoreline the sheet piling sort of terminates into the corner there by the trading post and there's some really big rip wrap black rock that is in right in that Nook and naturally for my eye that's where Driftwood would wash up in a big storm and so just in the natural scheme of placement this was on my eye thinking maybe in those big rocks now of course that exposes the piece to storms and waves and maybe not the best location Moab had a whole different idea and it was more to the well as you face the lake to the left but easier to describe as you're pulling into the Coast Guard parking lot and we place those large Boulders along the curve there right on the other side of those boulders ERS when you say the other side you mean the landward side not the seaw side right right the like to the north of the big boulders as you pull into Coast Guard parking there's a really large kind of half grass and then it transitions into Cobblestone right now there's some picnic tables there and a bike rack and a green garbage can but it's a really open space it's just south of the Wayne Port trat Little Canoe sculpture that's sort of tucked away right at the boulders so it's a it's a much more like obvious open like hard to miss like obvious spot like he he I feel was sensitive to the concerns of the committee on August where that little Corridor funnel right by the Trading Post you know was like the Gateway as and and baratus described and that being really not big Prime and popular and yeah like not the right spot so I think Mo took those words to put it in a separate Corner m you know that's removed from that walking area and really stands alone as a flat open space and so those ideas were shared with the c last month there weren't any strong opinions on the C about those two locations like if anything the C is going to take a step back right now because of Form and Function and their role in all of this we feel like there's been some Miss steps and there's been some misdirections and the CC as a committee as a volunteer committee needs more formal Direction and structure from us from the city was sort of the outcome of this Moab project actually because of how this is not going smoothly the CC is pausing and circling back to the city the mayor Tracy Benson's involved administrator Roth a Park Board member would be appreciated that has an interest in this as a subcommittee to work out the details of the what is the CC really work out the like agreement between the city council and the CC and really give them a clear Direction and a clear structure for handling public art and so the piece the Driftwood piece is I think it's going to be subject to the structure that gets set up now that we know we need it right it's going to be delayed until until the C CC has a blueprint for Success uhhuh you know I think we all got the sense from our August meeting that this just hasn't been institutionally vetted properly right yeah it seemed like there was people from it's just like it was Waring factions at at our meeting yes it was very awkward yeah it was very awkward and so we discussed that last week at the C Moab wasn't there and then yes his project is kind of back burner right now because the biggest component is his quest for a piece of Driftwood is obviously coming up empty and difficult and like the the whole piece of art is not in his hands yet and far from it and so it's difficult to make any kind of final approval on this piece where we don't know it we don't see it am I correct that part of the issue is that with the c is that it spoke with too many voices there was dissent yes okay and there and yet when they took a step back last week to say like where's the agreement with the city council on how we are to operate and how we are to score art and make recommendations it's missing like they've been a kind of a ad hoc group without formal structural like bylaws for example or any kind of like a model from somewhere else if there's something operating well some other community if they're going to be the public Arts commission for the city council then what's their role they need that in writing right how did they feed into the Morrison piece not much cuz that came out swell because it was Park Board Park Department CJ Fernandez yeah like CJ worked with the CC on the 61 amenity package and that maybe was the Genesis for the Morrison and The Landing in that in their in their Highway 61 planning for The Pedestrian Corridor is how the landing and the Morrison kind of was in the CC's court but even before that we had been as a part of our Community Connection quest for a landing been working with CJ and it was much more of a park Department project we had another house guest we've had an earlier one who came this last week walked downtown said what is that and was so impressed that they went to visit Hazel I mean picked it up and carried it all the way just from watching it we've had that happen a couple three times yeah it's pretty am some visitors are just dazzled by that and that's the effect you want exactly you know not not just you know who forgot to store the Viagra but this is something serious do I remember that that was funded out of Rec Park funds M entirely mhm yeah correct and that came out great yeah it did but so the present state of the home of sublime proportion is I think still working yeah still churning and still looking for the piece of Driftwood and once and if and when that's secured and the visualization of what this is actually looking like and how is it mounted and is it up and down or is it horizontal that's all still working out is he focused is he only is he starting here like he's not going to try to start anywhere else that's my understanding huh because of his close ties with the our colony and this like sort of in with the local you know several local artists so he carry that to other places his idea was to be successful here as a pilot project yeah wow wonder what kind of timeline he's on it's pretty ambitious and that was kind of the rush of August where it's like because of his State Arts funding grants there's some timeline I bet but the so the update is there's no rush anymore we feel like the C needs to get some formal direction from the city council and the mayor has asked for a parkboard member to participate in that and so if anyone is well if the mayor has asked we should respond yes you should and it would be just a oneoff or two like meeting with Tracy Mike and I and sure I I heard for the minutes we can record that K volunteered to serve on this sure I'll be happy to I don't know what I can do but and and only one arm was up your bed mediation training if you're going to build something it's Capital intensive do it well yeah don't screw around with it like WPA do that well like w well really a 100 years later it still looks good that's right I mean that has that's right that has meaning when you're thinking that way you know don't don't just throw it out there well thank you K sure let me know it's courageous have you so we probably need to move on to the question of be like soon like this week if you're available but I'll follow up on the email tomorrow okay or after the meeting thanks K amazing volunteerism yeah to you're right rat are on the new business M we've all seen my memo yep the kind of usual why we do this in case anyone needs a reminder but you group's been together for a while now this has been a good group for understanding the need for incremental rate adjustments property tax relief reinvestment in our operations Insurance raises Etc what's been the uh National or the Minnesota uh POS of living increase over the year do we know I haven't spent much time looking at that something less than % I'm sure we'll hear about it at 8:00 tonight in detail actually if we if one of you would just look on your phone for your search and and ask that question it would come up and tell you so my question da reaching for his phone that's good what's the Minnesota CPI from fiscal year 20 24 to 25 well maybe somebody over here knows on the back sheet here where they uh I just I forget is standard and Prime is that just location and view mhm okay location and view I was look at these two up here right standard and Prime so Dave when you said the there was a 4% increase right now of Revenue right and we had a 5% rate increase so is that saying occupancy dip slightly mhm you're saying that June was light July even July and August were even or up a small 1% so again occupancy slightly down mhm but catching up now now we've caught up or we' kind of approached the same I mean it's June was a real deal we were down like 40 some thousand over 20% July and August is kind of a hard to grow cuz we're either 90% full or 88% full right so I think we were slightly less full given that the revenue wasn't up 5% in July and August it was up 1% but now September mber was like a growth month or a weather dependent month where we were like plus 26 27,000 which like kind of took care of June's deficit but yeah as overall I think my rule of thumb on this is occupancy was slightly down in the sense of our Revenue only being up 4% and I've talked a couple of businesses well just Java moose and world's best donuts both said they are about 20% went down in July itself wow and the other months haven't been great but July was not a goodth have been or Haven they haven't been but they're not down as much as 20% like July was which is a wow a strange months to be down but you know but in August there are lines outside the jaam Moose there are people sitting in those chairs yep y a line out there just the other day it looks busy to me it looks busy to me I'm but maybe they were yeah maybe that lime water last year right they were just saying what over last year they were both down about 20% 2.59 is what I'm coming up on the CPI between last year and this year I think that's Nationwide it's not giving me a Minnesota read yeah it sounds low to me but I didn't look it up either we'll hear about it tonight do we need to act on it today uh I would recommend we set nightly weekly rates just so we have the online booking machine ready for November books right right seasonal is less important and then this final topic of rate uh site classifications is a big one that's interesting y I don't feel strongly between 3 four and 5% generally I'm still in favor of maybe not increasing the tenting rates because that's typically people who are not all that who are more subject to cost of living increases than the rest of us we didn't change it last year pardon we did not change it last year I know and and I thought that was a good decision yeah and I wouldn't mind continuing it what are your thoughts about the tenting rates that might have a slight I you know now that you mentioned that our reflection on like the cross theboard 5% and we have 50 sites and that's a good chunk of our Fleet that was the same rate so this whole like occupancy versus rate I didn't consider the fact that we froze 10 sites and so there wasn't that much to gain right if we didn't right if those 50 cents or those 501 s sites continued at the 2023 rate honestly I feel like they're not just fixed income starter families tenting it's like van Sprinter vans $100,000 Sprinter vans oh no I wasn't understanding that I thought we were talking about people in tents there's anybody can take a tent site and we see this with Van people that don't need hookups that they'll take the $30 tent site but can we charge more for if the if there's a van as opposed to no we charge it on the on the site classification not the rig and even tenters you'd be surprised how much money they have when they come to t i I don't it's kind of splitting hairs on the whole poor versus rich and tenters are it's true they're not when you look at state forests and even state parks yeah cheap tent sites are cheap 15 20 30 bucks is a lot so we have that competition if you will but you're in the forest with you're not in Downtown Grand Marine so it's not really apples to oranges tens so the Hoy pooy have places to go that don't cost as much as us okay then I feel better about it we're we're downtown gray on the lake and our rates reflect that I've never been shy about that we've tracked the market over the years and what state parks charge and what Burlington Bay charges and what two Harvest charges and we're the most we're kind of proud of that cuz we're the best and slowly but surely Burlington Bay and black Beach now in Silver Bay have copied us they've they've checked our rates they've checked our policies even on extra P or extra vehicles and extra people and now you look at their rate cards and boy they're very similar to us it might be a few few less but not like five or 10 years ago where they were $10 less and so the whole Market RV markets it's subject to your neighbor and because we have no competitive neighbor in town in even within a 50 M radius we set our rates high and our occupancy is pretty solid if I was like hearing a lot of oh too expensive honey let's keep going like I would be a little more sensitive to these prices but honestly I work at desk a fair amount and no one ever questions the rate I shouldn't say no one but 99% of the folks are don't even look at it don't even care about it and I'm not trying to be like not be here but so we have the option of three four and 5% in front of us 3% the Imagine standard of living we don't know about Minnesota but we assume it's at least equal yes and you know Sam and I were talking about these these prices too where like a 3% kind of kicks a bunch of 50 Cent prices in and 5% creates a bunch of 25 cent endings and you know just for the sake of flat rate kind of quot quoting like 46 or 48 a night it's like we don't like the sense endings we never have and it's maybe just a pet peeve of like quoting rates once the tax is added on it always ends up odd yeah cuz these are pre-tax our tax is very steep because of lodging and local wreck tax and County Highway tax is 8.375 or sorry 12.375 of tax on these rates so that's a easily another mhm aha I'm glad to know that yeah so we're like unabashedly expensive and maybe we go with even like 32s and 37s and 47s versus the 50 cents which would like take the 3% away and make it more like two and a half or some of these are rounding you know up and down at the 5% suggestions if we were to take the 25 cents off you're in I'm less concerned about those numbers now that you tell me what the state parks are available at a lower price yes then if they want to go Cadillac they can come here state parks yeah you generally have to pay for a pass or a sticker and then there's it's not just the price of the site but there's the day pass if you're a sticker it's easier but right there's a little like app orang stick is not that expensive for the for the season is it I don't know anymore not no okay so how do we decide between three four and five well I think K brought up a good point that you know he said we're up 4% you know we and we did 5% right MH um without the tents without the tenting sites when I built the budget for next year the revenue I did a just a conservative 3% multiplier on what was projected for this year and it's kind of my rule of thumb is just to give the old 3% to the projected revenue of the current fiscal year but again now the projection and the actual has always mismatched in an over performance of the actual I just got a an internet report that it was up 3.5% in in Twin Cities at least yeah pre pre tax that where's everything uh it just says Consumer Price Index that's everything is it yeah so that argues for either four or five it doesn't look that much differ he's playing with [Music] [Music] there we go the chair is open to a motion a motion to see what majority might we might have with everything else I'm comfortable with that based on what we' heard yeah that makes sense to me I am too they haven't raised for what a year oh just one year in 2020 three it was 3% across the board mhm same in 2022 but 2024 we had 5% across the board except the T right mhm and you hear any is that you know how how are Marina rates are those with those you know that's a whole different animal I find the price per foot maybe is not keeping up with the South Shore having travel down there more in the $2 to3 range per foot I mean it's we only have two reservable transient slip so it's a whole different market and but how about the seasonal docks again that's a bit of a mismatch in kind kind of antiquated price per foot pricing most of the seasonal marinas I research sell a 40 foot dock for $5,000 and whatever size boat you put on is your business that's what you get they do flat pricing and very why why don't we do that too we'd have to develop that price and it would be like expensive for some that are used to park in a 24t on a 30ft dock and it'd be maybe a value for others that are parking a 30 well if they don't L the whole dock that's a different issue right I mean mhm yeah this is just again it's our kind of antiquated price per foot has been our method of the seasonal price we have 30 foot docks and I would say the average size boat is about 26 maybe 28 and so you know they're paying 2500 or whatever it is for a buck a buck no 70 where were we at last year 71 it would simplify your life if we used a flat rate instead of a price per foot right it's simple either way I think it would be a hardship to the right Fleet that's used to paying by the foot and if they suddenly had a big sticker shock for oh my slips you know $3,000 and they were used to paying 2500 that's going to be the hard part yeah did you hear anything about when that went out the the I mean not by the incremental no no turnover and we have a big big waiting list so part of me is like you can't afford it call the next guy but there's plenty people waiting to get in I'm not that I I can't say that out loud but you but you're fine doing the 5% across the board to sure and just doing that think okay that seems much more easy to take than a $500 bill yeah well and again it'd be sort of how you set the price and you wouldn't want to leave money on the table cuz you wouldn't want to suddenly be charging less than let's say they were a 28f footer and they're paying $75 a foot that's $2,100 for the season and so you'd have to set your 30t slip at 21 or more yeah and from my brief research that's a bargain like a 30 foot slip again we're not the apostles we're not even close but that would probably be twice as much in a apostal Islands setting but most of these boats are fishing boats right almost all of them yeah yeah I have I don't want to present any strong feelings because it's really yours and the community's uh decision so I just as a manager am anecdotally aware of no big complaints about our prices an expectation for a marginal increase I don't know if it was disra who said that uh the secret of Taxation is to pluck the feathers from the goose without the goose binding and it appears that there some parallel here and we could uh you I don't see any downside to 5% as long as that's our goal to keep killing the city coffers we don't think that any of the price increases we did so far have caused business problems the only question I would have is whether we might fill up in May you know more if we had a l lower price in May but that's a separate discussion and we do just to be where we have a May and October price it's $5 off these Rays okay so it kind of covers the tax yeah again I would maybe if there is a recommendation it's to like work from these rules of thumb of three and five and clean up the sents where if you if you like the look of the five but we take out the quarters and 50 cents and put the pull through to you know 57 like I would say do a like I guess it's surrounding even numbers make the bookkeeping simpler yes what about the five doing the 5% and round them down that's what I'm suggesting K yeah like so it's like I hear a motion from K yeah the 5% increase across the board with the understanding that the pennies the the the sense will be rounded down to the nearest whole dollar or up like it goes to 33 38 48 52 we got to decide I would round down from 50 cents and up from 51 cents okay so then it's no I wouldn't 33 if you're okay with that because I'm partly not partly I'm like not convinced why to keep raising it more just because people haven't complained yeah you know it's like so and if we if we really needed money to do something next year but I'm not hearing that either you know we're it isn't the Wii that we're talking about I suspect it's the city coffers well the general fund certainly relies on our charges to see to it that the that the city taxpayers suffer marginally less right so how far do we go to pluck the feathers from the tourists that are coming into the campground you know well the we're we're I I think the decision is between 4 and 5% because we had a CPI increase of three and a half and what if somebody make maybe you didn't make that motion well that's where I I would say the 5% but round down but it's like take all the pennies away so it's 33 38 48 52 we have a motion from K to adopt a 5% increase but to round all pennies all cents down to the nearest Dollar MH is there a second to that motion um don't even the ews pull through so it would be $56 even so we're talking even 75 cents round the do is there a second of that motion and then for is Craig still with us yes yeah okay I'll second that motion okay okay is there a discussion and just to be clear this is just talking about nightly weekly camping right okay just talk about what the nightly weekly camping R we'll address seasonal and Marina next right I thought we were raising the rates on everything nope just nightly weekly oh we'll get to the next two next I like it going a dollar so there's no motion at the moment on the floor with regard to uh the seasonal rates for the rates is that correct correct correct why is that corre because we're just looking at talk about them need to break one SE do one section at a time one section at a time okay all right so we have the motion and second any other further discussion there being none all those in favor say I I I and I there you go I all right so that's unanimous all right now uh what do we want to do we've done nightly and weekly camping mhm now we're talking about seasonal rates and and Marina rates mhm I don't have any problem with the 5% and the Seas on the other two categories is there any griping Dave on seasonal rates not openly not not vocally I think there you need to as you suggest move things around and adjust it for max income and just kind of Let Them Fall where they fall I don't understand what that means I think somebody who comes for the whole season needs to just put up with what the rates are okay I think you can be attentive to rates nightly and just let them go seasonally when you say let them go you mean just go ahead for 5% just go for whatever you can get people are doing seasonal are doing that as an alternative to building a cabin which is more expensive probably very much so your motion for the seasonal camping is 5% well Dave had some other suggestion in it did you not in terms of reallocating space well we'll get to that last okay well maybe we can divide the question between what the greates are and what these exceptions might be yeah so is there a motion on the seasonal camping rates for 5% you bet is there a second second Is there further discussion there being no discussion I'll call the vote all those in favor say I I I I heard everybody ining Craig yep all right now uh let's do the marina stuff first and then come back to the to the to the nuances yes is there any anybody who owns a boat already owns a cash pole so I'm happy to have it 5% apply there as well I'll make that motion 5% Marina sure seconded by Bob is there any discussion our family has a 60 foot scooner for a good rate on the marina so I should abstain on this whole vote but you're not I'm not an armor in yeah that's that's the best deal in the world down there that's cuz all the doctors can short for it I don't know what he's worked out with Greg but it's amazing that thing is huge who are you talking about about oh our son has a 60 foot boat in front of North house oh if he were paying by the foot I'd have to support my kid but he gets offseason rates yes yeah for eight months out of the year so are you are you Absol actually abstaining or are you just and therefore you're not seconding I'm just amazed that we get by I guess that's it's not an exstension okay all those in favor of on the marina rates being 5% increase please say I I I of everybody having said I and including the chair the rates have gone up now let's talk about which of these things you really like that you talked about as options da from an administrative standpoint as well as from a policy standpoint and a revenue standpoint yeah so we're talking about the rate classifications like the site classifications like a nightly versus a monthly and this I want to just give a little bit of backstory on with the history of the seasonals down there and their royalty to the community and the the site count has been you know fluctuating over time as I point out over 20 years ago the park board recognized the value of the front row used to be all seasonals they made a policy that says when the seasonal that's in that site currently leaves the site revers to an overnight site as I've described it's taken 20 years but we're now into like 13 of the 15 overnight they're are highest yielding sites obviously it was a good idea and took a long time to turn over the recent history particularly our review by the parks and trails commission and their guide line or their guidance of a 20% Campground seasonal for funding eligibility we you know recently found out about that like this spring and it to me is a big piece of discussion it's going to take time I don't recommend any decisions tonight on this I'm more or less just testing the water for how do you feel about this idea not just for the bottom line and the revenue and the nightly and the but the the funding and then the sort of equity of the the real estate you know like we know anecdotally that the prime seasonal sites are above the front row they're big they're viewy they're highly sought after by overnight guests if and when a seasonal takes their trailer out of that site it immediately starts to sell on the overnight market and the and the people who you know happen to walk into it are just real they can't believe they got this great site and so there's this concept of like pleasing many many people with prime sites versus pleasing a select few of we've had this site for years we're going to keep coming back to it so so more of a social Equity of the of the views down there and we've seen this in in the people the overnight people talking about seasonal sites why do they get the good sites what this isn't fair you know it's just a thread of equity that because we're selling real estate at a price there's been a history of imbalance well the the I just read the summary that you have and I'm sort of attracted to the idea of having those sites once the seasonal people leave that they become overnight the second group that you spoke of there so was it 31 prime yeah seems to me that there's all kinds of logic in favor of make continuing that transition that's why I brought it up again I don't want it to be my idea cuz it's a bit of a lightning rod right now with the seasonals you know they're very keen on change being how does this affect me my sight and so I've sort of reassured everyone that there wouldn't be a scoot the run out from under you policy change where like suddenly you're gone no as I understand that the proposal that's implicit in these remarks is that we simply continue the pattern of when people leave the park from those sites they become overnight sites or or seasonal or not seasonal overnight sites that's right nightly and so I've talked about this with staff too and it's pretty profound it's the how do we manage these are they reservable are they non-reserved presently the front row is non-reserved you must be present to register and upgrade and so we attract a line on the porch in the mornings for people to get into the front row sites they're that in demand that we don't necessarily want to manage another 31 in that drop in market so it's more development of the would they be reservable and if so would they be at a different price a higher price would be logical um and so I think for the purpose of tonight's meeting it's a test like I say test the waters how's everyone feeling about this idea if you wish to pursue it we need to work out the details of the transition and the booking scheme on these sites and the price of these sites I like the idea and I think you should go ahead and I think you the minutes if nobody objects the minutes could reflect that the board suggested that you pursue that does it disturb the millu to have people pulling in and out of the front not presently but seasonal ones stay put they don't move correct and the two front rows in and out a lot right yeah like every day there's change over on the So when you say they're reserving they have to come in to be there to register for the front row you must be present in person in line with an opening and so if there's an opening then these people can move in and if not they can't so they could be somewhere else in the park right moving over am I correct that you can come and be in person and reserve for a night down the road somewhere later or is it just for the next night if you what do you have to stand in line for you one night or can I do five to 14 14 yeah I'm sorry and so you're standing in line to get the upgrade to get the front row site and you can stay for up to 14 nights okay and those are the the $70 night sites now we don't give a weekly discount on them and they yield you know 10 grand per site but the back to your question Steve about registering in person for a night down the road at our park or the or at a different date like later out you have to reserve from our reservable sites which are not the front row but if these 31 prime sites were to suddenly now say okay seasonals who are in there can stay once you leave it goes nightly we need to decide is it nightly reservable like online on the phone and I think we need to hear your yours and the staff's recommendation on that question I think the general point about about converting them is unanimous as far as I am aware from the discussion so far no I I have a question and I'm maybe I'm just like tired um so how many like this um requirement or standard from the um parks and Trails commission so when they say um no more than 20% of the sites are seasonal mhm so how many how many total seasonal sites do we have now 90 so and we have three and we have 300 well it's more like 296 so that our 20% threshold is like 60 sites so we have to get rid of rid of 30 yeah okay which is which is a strange coincidence in this 31 prime number right but it's true that right gotcha so you recently learned that from the from the GM so and when is their time frame for that that's the kind of followup I want to do given the direction of tonight's you know feelings if we want to pursue this we got to get with the gmrp and ask them what's the deal with that 20% rule does it have to be in effect when we apply and get funding or can we phase them in right right right it's a wonderful reason to have to do make a move like that because it we have don't you think we have really good potential for major funding for improvements for sure so absolutely yeah it's not we're just doing it because the community doesn't want or we're trying to make money free you know from people so that's right yeah I guess getting getting a sense of right phasing phasing down or whatever from the parks and trails people like how quickly does that need to happen and then what kind of action do we need to take to do that but definitely moving in that direction for sure so am I correct then that we're unanimously directing Dave to to continue the process of Shifting the sites these 31 sites as people leave to overnight sites or weekly sites and that we're going to ask him to follow up staff recommendations and State and State information about uh how this impacts our applications for yeah I think the parks and trails come first in my mind that discussion before you start telling people their site can't be reserved mhm and so and I yeah finding out their time frame of when no more than 20% right I mean talking two years 5 years how long do we get to make that change and CU at some point we might have to start kicking people out uhhuh I mean how many do you see in the last five years since when you did this how many have people turned over turned over a surprising number like 68 there's two that would be placed this spring right now or this like just as a as an answer to that there's two that would be affected immediately by this because the people aren't coming back yeah well that's an easy one to me in my mind and when people are seasonal can they give it to their kids or something thing no it's the name on the the thing and then when they're done it's done is there any kind of written agreement that they have it forever or no oh no and and for years I've trying to change the Lexicon of it's not a permanent site it's a seasonal site cuz that's the call we get how much are your permanent sites and I say we don't have permanent sites we have seasonal sites they're on a year-to-year camping fee structure they do sign a terms and conditions agreement to like protect our liability but there's no guant Deeds or contracts or guarantees I have another meeting I was supposed to go to at 5:30 have we gone as far as we need to with discussion today or is there some more additional vote we need to make got one comment don't you think the front row could use an aesthetic upgrade I ride my bike down that row on my way from home to Town M and it seems to me that it's a lot of boxes in a row without a lot of trees trees are blocking the view and the s for the second row for the front row people love the south end of that row cuz there's no trees and it's wide open all well there's always bushes but yeah I get you we put in nice new round grills like uniformly space we put in newer you know nicer picnic tables so we've already been s of aware of these sites being the best the next step to me would be like more gravel flatter gravel yeah the trees yeah not so much cuz honestly the trees block The View and the backing angles so we do kind of have that balance of like yeah I get it though you know you know I'm kind of an old guy but not compared to Steve but if you can see the light you don't have enough trees I mean you don't need we're selling the view though you don't need to live in it they want the you don't need to live in it you walk down to it not if you're here for nights back for two night I'm a you got to go to the 300s Loop my friend I'm a Backpacker not a hardside camper 300s loop it's all not everybody was going to show your VI I bet well my other point is I think that taxes are too low here and everybody's got a good deal but boy is that not going to sell with the city council I mean really what we pay here compared to Del or Minneapolis it's amazing it's wonderful well we also have a dramatically lower incomes profile than either of those well than minneapol I don't know about the L and we pay more for food yeah I mean they're offsetting things but still we're starting from a pretty good playing field I think well I've got the message that this is an idea worth pursuing I know the kind of details I need to follow up on I I want this to be slowly thought about and talked about over the next few months so that it's not a surprise to the seasonals or the community and so it's been a good discussion tonight and there's no rush if there's any if there's a timeline on this it's like maybe before the February offering season of the waiting list sites I I will say one final little bit and that is we have an internal waiting list of the seasonals that are there in a standard site without the view so they're looking for these Prime sites there's about a dozen people of our 90 of our 60 standard seasonal sites we offer this internal waiting list for the prime site and again it's a win for us because it takes this sort of I don't know what to call it greed or Equity out of who's getting the best sight the fairness Factor like how did that guy get that sight well he was on an internal waiting list you know Etc and so if we didn't have this you can get a prime site if you take a standard site for 5 years it's like it speeds that up or it makes that More Level if if the seasonals are all standard I don't feel as like despair to not you know when guys got to be one gu doesn't and it's only a whatever $500 price difference it it fixes that list too so yeah so I'm just dissenting three times in my life have I owned a house on Lake Superior three times we sold it because it's a cold disagreeable Lake I don't see why everybody else doesn't appreciate that point of view cuz they're only here for two here in August the problem is you live in those houses in the winter yeah exactly you should move this why also sold those houses too yeah all right well you when you sold the one you didn't need to buy another one CU you already knew right I'm just a yeah I got a question on on the street if we have time what can we finish this discussion is this the same ISS this will take like 30 seconds okay looking at the city expenditure budget worksheet mhm there's an item there for toilet rental I understand that mhm what is a bank charge of 70,000 credit card processing fees it's really 45,000 or more that's with you or is that no that's just for the campground yeah because we do like 1.5 million and 3% of that is Bank charges there you go W is there some way to reduce that number cash people to pay with cash you don't want that charge a Fe we want to open it up to auction by other Banks well no I mean I I appreciate C charges but they do end up as being that much it's the cost of doing business yeah it's very and the more we spend on that the more we're making is my it's a percentage Yeah Yeah I mean we had that in our little Hilltop business too yeah and as a staff we've talked about this trend of you know extra bank card charge 3% whatever we're not into that we rather raise our rates 5% right okay your 30 seconds are up I'm done now let's go back to the question of what we've decided the minutes will reflect that we've said yes continue the transfer of crime seasonal sites to overnight and weekly camping as people leave and the rest of it you will study including the question of the 20% of the state and the staff issues and all those things yeah okay so the minutes will reflect that and we won't blame Bob for any of it he's back in the WPA now I hope Craig didn't hear me say the taxes are too low I just hope that is there anything further that we have to do before I declare the meeting adjourned having hearing nothing the meeting is a j thank you all great thank you also with you our pleasure