need it um that we can make these um decisions you know with a little bit more of a run Runway and hopefully you know we'll have still some of the school funding restored uh so I I think there's also still hope for that but nevertheless I think we need to go line by line and um start to discuss um you know a plan to open our doors in in September with certainly much less state aid and also to account for the deficit that we already had um because of the escalating costs mostly related to special education um and it's still an unknown how much of those costs we will get reimbursed in July so we are very much um you know sketching a budget here with you know I don't think we need to go very close to the corners but I think we have to begin the work Bob a question for you on the special education funding that you just mentioned yeah and not knowing how much we might get in July is that related to the bills that are currently in the legislature or is that just kind of a situation that we deal with every year or a little bit of both situation this is the situation that we're dealing with both for sending students out and for uh extra services that students are requiring inh house um and this is not just had in Township you know when I talk to superintendent across the area everyone special education costs seems to be escalating dramatically everywhere um and we're certainly we're having a hard time keeping up with that and our projections for next year are a lot more than what our costs were for this year you know um so that's the current situation got it Jen Jen if you want to provide a little bit more on that go for it so extraordinary 8 is something that we apply for every year and it has to do with the child's needs and what their medical needs are and the costs that are over $40,000 we apply for that cost um at the end of this school year our child study team director Dana will apply for that and then the state calculates those numbers and then we will get a percentage of that in this year's budget I have budgeted $830,000 which is exactly what we got last year we have a greater amount of special education students we're hoping to get at least that same amount and for some additional context on the special education extraordinary aid for folks just to know so we are supposed to be reimbursed above certain expenses at certain levels for students who remain in District that we're providing support for and then students who are out of District in private school and for um in other public schools so again there are thresholds we're supposed to be reimbursed Beyond once we hit those thresholds the state has not ever funded us and reimbursed us at 100% so that is due to the appropriation of the funding by the legislature and the amount is pro-rated based on how much is appropriated and so we are generally spending significantly more than we're getting reimbursed even though technically the state is required to reimburse Us in State Statute it is a it's a bit frustrating and because of that you know and state aid and I don't want to keep beating up the state I know we have work to do tonight um but because of that we were softly projecting an increase in state aid we knew that we had a deficit we knew about these escalating costs with special education we had the increase in state aid last year BEC and I thought the state was actually trending in a direction that they were going to reward us uh but instead of you know the best case scenario would have been to give us you know between 8 $900,000 a additional State a instead it was the exact opposite which is kind of leaving this gaping hole do you want me to get into the high level kind of like what we're actually dealing with here Kelly we have a lot of I think that would be great okay yeah let me just here's the work right so 85% of our budget is uh you know about 85% Jane connect me if I'm wrong is salaries and benefits right um once we look at reducing every single line them by 10% and basically ordering almost you know bare bone supplies taking out pretty much all costs related to curriculum and professional development although we need some curriculum particularly at the middle school that right now is not in this actual budget uh we need to find a way to kind of plan for that once we strip out all the operating costs and we're only dealing with positions we are forecasting the potential to reduce by about 15.5 positions and T tonight's probably you know I don't think we need to get in and certainly with the folks that are on the call we're not talking about individuals and I typically think where um folks start to kind of and I'm going to talk to the Teachers Association next week but where folks will start to panic is when we talk about positions that I think the public will start to think about individuals and that that's not the case we're not at that level yet but we need to make a plan um to reduce positions if that makes sense um any questions on that so far Jen is that sound about right yes it does if you look at you know if you if you look at uh you know we three levels of schools right Elementary uh middle and high school we're probably looking at you know Equitable cuts across each uh each level at this point and of course of course we're always looking at uh administrative costs as well thank you Dr pakara so I think at this point it makes sense to just run through the questions Jen that board had if we can just go through each of those and the response to those I know folks have written responses but want to make sure we just have a chance for discussion absolutely absolutely uh the first question was the revenue section on prek tuition uh what is the per child impact of the prek proposed Revenue increase from uh that's going to increase from 160 168,000 to 371,000 and we're anticipating increasing the prek tuition um by about $750 um we're also the next line the next question is and by the way we have 89 children set um signed up right now for for prek um the next session is also in Revenue it's tuitions from individuals as you know we opened up our schools to um to be a tuition accept tuition students current cost right now is $6,000 for um K through 8th 6,500 through high for high school we're anticipating um raising that to $600 there was also a question about whe were they going to be grandfathered and we tossed that around about being grandfathered but we don't think we're going to do that we think we're going to raise that that cost yeah can you restate again the co the the raised the proposed cost increase for sure it's $600 for each so um K through 8th grade will go up to 6600 and high school will be um 7 100 and if and that's up for discussion as well folks everything yeah everything is up for discussion nothing's written in stone you know this is all presenting to you tonight with these these changes so Jen in response to those two questions that I had posed I I still feel the prek cost is reasonable when compared to other local programs but I would like us as a board to possibly consider increasing that outof District tuition by higher than a 10% % increase looking at perhaps the 15 or 20% marker I don't know how others feel about that um Ally I would have to agree with you I had a lot of people who were really surprised at how low our tuition is for out of District students in comparison to other districts yeah I think that's the important part here I don't know the comparable rates for other districts so that's the only additional consideration of how much we should raise that tuition by would be where are we still competitive enough other districts that someone would choose us when they're choosing a new District to attend and to pay out of District rates for I I think the part where it gets a little squishy is when we had this conversation two years ago when we had we we got state aid is we wanted to make sure we had the ability to make sure we had enough students to the school so if we increase it too much do we drive people out so it it's a sensitive number that we have to make sure that we're not you know balancing it out and I'm not saying right or wrong I'm just remember like that's part of this conversation where yeah I think it was two or three years ago we our numbers were low so we allowed people to come in at that number and now all of a sudden we're going to increase that level do people go away so and then we we do this all over again so I I just looked up one oh sorry Kristen go ahead no worries do we maybe increase it more but then grandfather the people were already here cuz I feel like if we increase it too much then I feel like we kind of need to grandfather the people already here because we don't want to price them out so just for context that I know that this is a private versus public comparison but for the 2425 school year the rate for Paul the 6 is between 21,000 and 25,000 depending on whether you are Catholic or non- Catholic so just as a school right around the block that's walkable for for a lot of our students I there's a huge gap here well I just looked up haddenfield haddenfield for six to eight is 14,000 in the High School 17 and that's right around this around the corner too the thing that helpful we well sorry B yeah the thing I just want to what you know I think I think the pfield number is a little bit different because it's a bigger school system um but the the thing that everyone needs to keep in mind for the private schools like Paul I 6 is that you know that might be the advertised kind of sticker price s to speak right but they have the ability to Discount that price um to balance these economies of scale to make sure class size you know the revenue coming in on the tuition side meets the expenditure side so they could for example you know fill the first 15 seats at a certain price and if there's 10 empty seats in August there's nothing to stop a private school for reducing that rate down to whatever they want to you know to basically fill those seats without the cost of an extra teacher if that makes sense Public Schools it's a different set of rules once we set the tuition we need to be bound by it so it's just something to consider yeah I think with the consideration looking at the increase overall for the families taking into consideration how many families we have that might have multiple children that it might not be cost effective for I do not necessarily agree with grandfathering I don't think there's any guarantee intuition um according to the annual contracts unless I'm incorrect but I think it might be worth consideration to see how much might be a um a cost people can accommodate and so that point Isis I'm wondering if there's a first child second child third child tier right so that it doesn't hit them quite as much if we were to increase that I think these are all great considerations I feel comfortable with how this stands as a proposed increase to send to the county for tonight but I think these are great things for us to continue exploring as we work in solidifying the budget for next year and the tuition for next year if folks are okay with that continued iteration I don't know when it makes sense for us to ensure we just have a locked in tuition rate and when families really need that for their decision- making but we should make sure we have that on that timeline um but it sounds like given that this is a tentative budget we still have time to work through it I agree with Kelly I think it would be helpful um to at least have those local comparisons like Ali I know you had some um you know and then uh Marie just looked up had and field just for you know our own context I think that would be you know making a decision it would be helpful to see what other districts are charging most of the time District tuition will fluctuate depending on their enrollment also kind of fluctuating um so it's not uncommon for districts to increase and then at times gistics have also dramatically decreased there's a district in Gloucester County I think that tuition was around 5,000 and enrollment went so low they dropped it down to 1,000 um so these are basically empty seats in the classroom and starving for kids sort of speak so again AR in the s thing is our enrollment has not dropped you know that it's why this whole thing you know I can look at the um some of the surrounding areas tuition and get that for you and Jen and then we can discuss it further great thank you thanks Shantel are we good to move on yep great yes okay um the next section is the um Revenue also in revenue and this is the communications Consortium um that is increased because we have a lot more participants this year um we're anticipating them staying on for next year um that is a cost that is at almost no cost to the district to have a um public information officer we're the host of the Consortium other districts join the Consortium and Services all those other districts um extraordinary Aid we I already touched on that but the amount budgeted in the extraordinary Aid line is the same amount that we received last year I'm anticipating that same amount um just because of our increase in special ed costs um the next question touches Jen can I ask a question about that have we ever gotten an increase in extraordinary Aid ever like where when we have such a huge increase of students in that area we have we us we used to only get about 500,000 last year we got 830,000 um we were only used to only be funded at 30 something per of the extraordinary Aid last year I believe it was about 67% okay thank you you're welcome uh the next question question was about um the teaching lines um they currently asked about the removal we we talked last time at our meeting that we in this budget we remove the permanent Subs in order to make the budget balanced Bob touched on the fact that in certain places in this budget there are positions that have been cut um they are just positions that we selectively cut in order to get the budget to balance and we're not talking about who where what yet that's a further discussion okay good on the next line somebody have a question go ahead go ahead Jen I do want to provide a little bit more matar that Kelly may want regarding positions I don't know how how how how deep we're going to go with that with this discussion I mean I think we should keep it high level because we haven't had a chance to really dig into positions listen I I think the one thing I think that the board and I've discussed this with the board before and and maybe this was a misjudgment on in my fault I certainly could take responsibility for this um because I know that there was um different points of view but when we received that Esser money um we received that Esser money and the and to be fair to the government they told us that you know those those that money was not to be kind of relied on that was a kind of a one shot in the arm um one shot in the arm money to help kids recover from covid right and we had a balanced Approach at that time between hiring Personnel that we didn't expect to be permanent um and making improvements to the school environment right but if the money was really provided to helping kids recover from covid and accelerate it's the people that do that work right so we that s money the way it was spent it was pretty much half on personnel and half on school Improvement curriculum things like this right um so last year when we received the additional state aid we made a decision and it was my recommendation to fold a lot of those positions that were part of the original Esser money into the general operating budget okay um we were able to balance the budget with the additional state aid last year and we were able to keep the positions that we hired as part of fser in the district there was some warning from members of the board that said you know well what if you know you know the money doesn't last and at that time we had no reason to expect that this cut was coming okay um so I know that there's some discussion about you know rolling back to positions that were hired with Esser that is not where we are tonight okay I don't think it's fair nor I think it's appropriate to us to just say rip the Band-Aid off and you know Rewind The Time Machine to before Co I think we met with the administrators we need to look at balanced cuts across the three levels and and also administrative costs um so I don't think it's safe for the board do assume or the the teachers that are on the the call here the staff that that that are on the call to assume that that that's an automatic thing um everyone that we've employed in this district has served our children extremely well any any of these cuts are going to uh be very difficult but I I just kind of wanted to put that out there I know that's kind of the elephant in the room for many of the folks that are on the call as part of our school community that work for us um these decisions are going to be difficult but they're just we're not automatically rewinding The Hires that we hired uh with the Sesser money and we need more time administratively between now we're we need to cut positions but the exact positions and who and what they are that that's not the purpose of tonight thanks Bob uh in case it's helpful for folks Esser stands for elementary and secondary school emergency relief fund those are federal dollars as part of the cares act the coronavirus a relief and Economic Security Act that were passed through to states to them provide to districts um the one other comment before we move on I just wanted to share Mrs Billingsley had to hop off um she's currently taking a class for a tween and teen coaching certification which happens to conflict with our meeting tonight okay okay moving on to the next board member question uh the next line is the 150 line in that is um special education General uh someone asked about the line being cut that was last year that was where we cut we had a um online hosted class that we could not fill um so that's why that is cut we did not cut home instruction alog together we just cut the uh the services for home instruction the next line uh the next question was uh regarding the supplies the general supplies in the 190 account um increase from 2223 to 2324 it only gets larger in 2425 um this increase in 2223 to 2324 was for the iPad and desktop replenishment um 2223 was the year we did not have the lease payment so that's why that went up so abundantly in that year um every Department did reduce their supply lines um except for um it and that is left in there because there's a need for laptops for the traveling teachers who cannot use iPads because our on course does not work on iPads um their laptops cannot be updated anymore so that's that's somewhere that we could maybe we could figure something else out there I don't know okay Ellie you're muted we're back to co you don't appear to be muted but we cannot hear you minut she not muted she said a comment said please continue okay okay great uh the next line item is for uh the general account textbooks um I think Bob's mentioned this earlier that that's one of the things we cut in order to make the the balance uh the budget balance uh the next line is the 204 uh clarify the difference between these accounts uh the the descriptions in the book and I apologize for that they were kind of condensed in in your budget books the 101 is for the salaries of the teachers the 106 six is for the sours of the AIDS and the 610 line is for supplies um special education positions funded through a different Source in this account this is a special education line Marie I believe you were the one that asked that about yes we do have some special education positions that are funded through the title for the grants they've already been budgeted that way thank you um you're welcome the still on the special ed accounts Al this question was from you uh recapturing the revenue in language Services home instruction basic skills in preschool but gaining significant expenses in resource room specific descriptions of the shifts and anticipated needs that are happening within special education so the decrease in 219 was the in reduction of the world of learning online Latin account that's where that was budgeted last year the differences between the 204 and the 213 they're two accounts that we kind of have to look at together the differences are the shifting in the AIDS and what I did this year was I budgeted for the current AIDS and what we have now in those accounts so that's why you're see you see a shift in the accounts but it's not really a shift in a special education cost so it's almost the same cost it's just that they shift those AIDS around all the time does that make sense thank you um this is about the basic skills line and a reduction in there and you know we can't anticipate where we're going to take money from that's just a line item that we used in order to get the budget to balance um and I believe that Isis you had a question you said it was a decrease an increase but I think you meant decrease because it was the same yeah okay great um the next question I believe is from you Mr St about the 401 the co-curricular and extracurriculars um where we covering that by Student Activity fees and we did discuss in our administrative meeting and I think we discussed this last week in our in our um meeting our budget meeting regarding uh the possibility of a pay to participate or pay for your uniform fee that is not something that we have come to a conclusion on it's just a a discussion item um why an increase here with 10% oh in the co-curricular so last year that did I speak to that one second the pay to play to participate yeah so just in this case that this school funding happens to come back around and we're able to recapture the school funding the board may want to consider putting the pay to play pay to participate in this budget as opposed to a reduction of a potential staff member a position there's currently a teacher shortage here in the state of New Jersey right unfort and and by the way there's more jobs in education next year than less right we're just on the wrong side of the funding so the pay to play can be Unwound kind of at the last minut before September if we happen to get our some of this school funding back if we reduce a position and we let a staff member go they're GNA get another job you know somewhere and we're we're not going to be able to hire folks back last minute in September or August you know when the dust finally settles on this on this state aid situation so it's just something to consider could always put it in here and then remove it should we need to late August if our budget number change change a lot easier to do that than let individual go and bring them back something to think about makes sense anyone else have any uh questions or comments regarding that I tend to agree with Bob I think it was my suggestion um to look at the potential to have pay um pay for a participation but I think that as a parent you know when you're looking at the the downside of losing an individual versus paying a small expense out of pocket it seems reasonable and it's easily revers reversable the money comes back I like that idea actually um I just think we have to be a little bit sensitive on who we're asking to pay to play so like teams that are like the the the crew team or rowing team the lacrosse team any other team that's already paying those folks shouldn't be they shouldn't be a pay to play anymore right those those are outside the budget so we just have to I mean and again be cognizant of where we're asking people to pay for because it's you know I get I live in a world of fees right so fees never really get unwounded so you have to be careful when you start feeing because then all of a sudden you start feing people to death so I get nervous when I hear the word fee because it's it's a good way to increase Revenue but you know you have three kids four kids in school and all of a sudden it becomes a thing right so and they're all doing the same thing so I just get nervous when I hear the word fee can't hear you I'm sorry I I I get very nervous when I he hear the word fee and I just want to make sure that that we're not if if you're already paying a fee for a sport you shouldn't be double dipped so indoor track rowing lacrosse it shouldn't be that those folks are being paid another fee so I mean and you have to be careful when you start going down that path because it becomes a I mean I don't know I just we talked about it last year and and I I just get nervous because I hear what Bob's saying and I'm not I'm not discounting it but at the same point in time we shouldn't feed people just because we have a shorted where we have a surplus I'm sorry take that back we shouldn't fee people to try to cover the the the balance of our budget because this is what the whole part of this budget processes for is what what our revenue is and not ex excess revenue and that fee becomes an excess Revenue in my opinion thanks Jim I hear what you're saying but at the same time our extracurriculars and sports do cost a good chunk of our budget as well so I don't know I'm kind of torn on it I think we definitely need to make sure that there's a method for people who can afford the fee to not have to pay but also I did look at some districts around here and a number of them do have some sort of activities fee so it's not like we'd necessarily be doing something unusual and I kind of agree with Bob's point that if it's this or you know cutting a position you know it's something that should maybe consider and and maybe I'm just sore because like we talked about this last year about having positions when we know we're sensitive to a topic and now all of a sudden we're increasing fees so when we talked about it last year it was going to be oh we're we're all happy and now all a sudden we're not happy now we have to increase fees on the other end so again it we just have to be careful of what we're asking people to pay for because it never at a certain point in time it just never ends right we just went through a referendum now we're asking them for to go ask for another fee on top of that I'm just cognizant of what we're asking people to pay for all the time so let's just be aware of what we're asking people to pay for and not just say hey you know we have a deficit maybe sometimes it's better just to cut than keep it people to debt yeah and iead I don't think we're talking fees that would be cost prohibitive to participation I would hope that we're talking reasonable and in most school districts and in a lot of sports there is an expectation to pay to contribute to the cost of the sport so I don't think we're saying ,000 dollar to be on the football team but $50 is a reasonable cost to a family when there's a uniform involved in you know travel Etc we have fees associated with our sports that children not contribute to I'm just saying we just went through a referendum we're asking people to pay for something else now and now all of a sudden we're asking to pay for something different I think we have to be aware of that part of it and not just uniformly say and it's it's never just $50 right it's it's there is $50 for the fall $50 for the spring $100 for this $100 for that so I just want people to be aware of that's what we're asking them to do so again I just think that a certain point where we we're increasing one on one end maybe we give up on the other end so yeah I mean I think these are discussing more of an annual fee like no we're also increasing our taxes on an annual fee so on annual parts for the next 20 plus years so again let's just make sure we're being cognizant of what we're asking people to do yes I mean excellent point all around I think we talked last week in our board meeting one we talked about not just if there were participation fees that they would not just be for athletics they would be for programs offered by the district but we also we're looking at this as an option I want to reiterate last week in our meeting none of the board was actually a fan of this as a path forward it's just something we need to explore whether or not we need to be adding this into to costs nobody wants to increase costs to families we I know we all we had a hard time we were wanted the bond referendum to pass but we all struggled with the tax implications for our residents and so nobody wants to continue increasing costs where we're able to not and we're going to be really intentional about that and Jim I appreciate you pushing us on making sure that we're weighing in kind of the holistic picture not the individual kind of slice of the pie as we think about the potential burden the financial burden to amilies are we good to move on from that one folks great okay um the next question was from Marie under the school sponsored Co extracurricular activities what are the Middle School dues and fees uh paying for um you had the Middle School you the total Middle School was $34.95 that wasn't the total Middle School there's uh and I gave you a breakdown on your sheet ban is 450 knowledgeable Performing Arts student council world affairs club and then the middle school fees are for student emotional um and social growth through outside programs that that they do that with um um Isis you asked a question about E1 ec1 and EC3 that that is ec1 is paid once a year that's stien that's paid once a year in that in that category and the three is paid three times a year it's just an internal code that we use so it's funny how when you when I put these things together I'm like I would you know how would you know that right you wouldn't I know what it is um thank you you're welcome thank you uh we are talking about uh this question came from you Mrs Rodman about the um 402 which is actually our Athletics uh good amount of this figure is driven by the htea contract um we're looking the question is is there truly no opportunities for cuts here assistant coaches smaller teams I think that's something that the board could probably discuss or you know we can talk to our athletic director and see where where some some things could come out there so I'll make a note to discuss that with Tim thank you you're welcome uh Marie asked about the fee this is a great question fee on the school sponsored Athletics misscellaneous expenditure sus and fees that seems like an awfully High number I agree with you um these are for the entry fees in addition to all our officials fees that does that does um include the 30,000 for track which is uh used for our Camy County track meet and the rolling relays which we do get funds from other school districts for uh the next question is regarding our outof district tuition um placement uh and the significant increase in that I believe this was you Mrs Rodman um I deferred to Mrs Cotter on this just because she's the expert on this um we had three students moved to District requiring out of District placements each including in a or nursing support and projected to remain in that District placement for next year um we have one student in District who is projected to need an out of District placement and uh one student who's placed by the state in an out of District placement so when a child goes into an out of District placement it's because we can no longer provide the services needed for their education yeah this was just a huge increase in this particular line item and I you know Kelly to your point earlier about advocacy the more that we as a collective board as well as the local community can do around some of this Aid because we absolutely need to meet the needs of these students but we're not being properly funded for it is this something we could join with kind of off topic but with other districts as well because I imagine that there's lots of other districts who are having difficulties with special education funding yes and in this with the extraordinary Aid every district is is pro-rated at the same rate so every District who has these costs is not being reimbursed fully funded yeah yeah the r are supposed to be and so every single district is experiencing the same challenge as long as they have these costs in the first place yeah kind of like a power numbers thing that if we can get people together yeah can can I ask an uncomfortable question it feels like it's that kind of day for me uh what how much do we push back on someone saying that we need to do something out out of District I mean where where do we like do we and I'm not saying and I'm not please don't don't take what I'm saying as being I'm not for this however at some point in time is there a point where if someone's on the margins do we do we push back and say no we believe that that we we want to do these things in service or inous and again I know nothing about special education but it feels to me like there's this cost keeps going further and further higher and if we don't ever kind of draw the line in the sand that we're just always going to be giving and never getting back and I'm not saying that's the case I'm just saying it feels like it's it's becoming more and more that I don't know and I'm not I just I don't want to I'm just asking the question yeah let me answer it let me answer it um we always are mindful of costs we want to do right by every child right and we want to service every child in hat Township in the least inclusive environment however when we're unable to meet a child's needs um we ethically morally and educationally have to um agree to an out of District placement now however one of the reasons that we have not been able to meet all of our children's out of District uh all of our children's needs occasionally will come down to space for example we don't have a resource CL class um or a self-contained class you know at every single building right especially at the middle school level right the middle school is not big enough so um that's a situation now with the referendum with the additional classrooms coming in you know I think listen if we need to if we need to uh reduce um Staffing um we may have an empty classroom or so where we can consider starting you know a self-contained program at different levels I think think it's a good time to ask the question um and everyone needs to understand what the what the goal posts are around meeting the needs for every child are I mean to to Kristen's point is that again hypothetically speaking is if there's a way to I would rather us figure out a way to bring kids back in and include other districts into that service that way to increase Revenue than do other things right so that to me feels like it's a it could be a potential not Revenue Source but a way to get neutral sooner or quicker um if it's possible other districts have gone that direction and been successful so what do we need to do to make that happen is it space that's one of the challenges yes but you know if we're looking at reductions in force because of budget we may be able to open up a self-contained classroom or two and at that point it would just be a matter of Staffing right so finding that teacher with the appropriate certificate not that many folks have that CT anymore right um and finding a high quality educator actually you know teach uh teach the class but I guess the Kristen's Point earlier is if we have the space and it does it does it matter and I'm being naive on my education part of it if I live in Colwood Haden field Haden Heights and if I'm in that General area is it potentially for us to do a shared service agreement where someone could in theory send their kid or this their special needs kid over to us so we could educate them uh you know and is there a way to do that and I'm not saying we have to had the answer now but is that something we could do yes if we had the space the the teacher the program and the services that go along with supporting children um yes other districts have done it it's something that it's been done before we could do do it we have to have those uh objectives met and just to piggy back off of that for a second based on where we currently are to answer your original question Jim so there is um Dana cter you know along with the admin team and to Bob's point we try to build the least restrictive environment and yes like try everything internally additional AIDS support anything that we can possibly do to service the student in-house um before getting to that point where you know we're out of options and now we have an out of District placement so that's where we currently are but to Bob's point if we have the space and Staffing going forward we could possibly change that to create that least restrictive environment I I missed I I said least inclusive I didn't mean least inclusive I meant least restrictive sorry I just I us the I used the wrong word the opposite of basically what I said I think everyone understood I was talking about least yes and I just want to say that I'm not I I and this is not anything against the need for it it's just one of those things that if we can close them gaps or or or thin the margins better for us then if there's ways that we can do it you know obviously it becomes you whatever is best for the kid but I just wanted you know if there's ways that we can do it inhouse and and keep costs minimal then that would you know there's there's it's the push and pull y understood uh moving on to the nursing section uh there was a reduction in supplies this year Ali um this is something that I went over uh with Michelle Marcato our head nurse we discussed her Supply needs uh she does not need any large items this year so there's no Audiology machines there's no vision machines so that's why this we think we this will be okay for her but thank you for that um the next session is uh the increase in OT and PT um this is another one that I um diverted to Mrs coner for um so this school year we had three students who were protected to go out of District but were able to remain in District with contracted behavioral support as a result our current actual budget for the that account is higher then originally budgeted um so the current budget is including these students we always work towards uh getting those students that have trained behavioral support that we Outsource back to a regular Aid or we do have a lot of our own trained AIDs that we can use uh for that we also have students in three students in preschool through first grade moved into district with significant aggressive and unsafe behaviors they need um that they that's what's included in this budget and an increase in the classified preschool age students um that actually doubled um last year as well as an increase in classified students overall and resulting in this increase for OT and PT does that make sense Jen I recall um previously uh you were talking about like the intentionality about bringing a lot of the external contracted services inhouse so I would imagine that's what that showing we're trying to work towards that yes um we're not quite there yet uh we do have 16 trained behavioral AIDS currently on our staff and an in-house bcba which is behavioral consultant that trains those AIDS um so that that is that is what we're working towards it's just however taking a little longer than we had anticipated uh the same thing with the next line I think was was you as well Mrs Rodman and this is for the um support for the child study teams and these are are children that have come into District that need individual nursing services for periods of time during the day to their severe medical needs um they were previously preschool students so now they're they're back in District for the full day so we so some of their services were being done at home now they're they're here all day um an out of District student who needs nursing for full day so that's where all those those costs come from is the nursing services that we provide for our medically fragile students so as I'm looking at the patterns of these different line item increases specifically I'm looking at a lot of preschool kindergarten first grade is there anything we can be doing with families more proactively from an early childhood standpoint to potentially reduce some of these costs longer term they there just seems to be a huge concentrated pocket in in that particular age group I think that's something that we would need to discuss with Mrs scotter that's not something that I can you know right I can answer I do also wonder just how um covid and the pandemic and that has affected some of this student socialization student peer-to-peer connections and behaviors that I mean my assumption is that is part of why we're seeing some of these increased costs and increased challenges I don't have the the true to back that up that's just kind of grounded in experience but I would imagine there's some correlation there I would think also I I think also it's around uh the age when a lot of children are just entering school so those observations are happening and there's uh external feedback that can be given in more trained professionals that uh can assess the behaviors that families when the children are home may not um be familiar with very good point and our students would first be eligible for car Solace support beginning in kindergarten with their families is that correct if we're looking at a more holistic approach to this correct that's corre yes okay and I think those are all good points and we are able to identify um certain uh behaviors and such in preschool kindergarten Etc but mainly kindergarten you know be because not every child has to go to preschool so we have a nice population of preschool um students where we're able to assess some of those things and kind of get a head start but you know that's not a requirement so that's another you know piece of the puzzle there as well we are getting some students who have their first opportunity to be in a classroom is when they enter kindergarten Chen I'm curious to find out like what is the percentage of students who then you know get services in kindergarten in first grade are they moving out of those Services that's a great to find some of that out like do those costs decrease as they go up and receive services to especially for behaviors like is that becoming then the the behaviors go away a little bit so we don't need to reiding nursing and all these other things that are so costly to us gotcha okay moving on uh Mrs St asked about what training crisis portion of contracted PT that is safety care training so that's um training for students who might need um restraint [Music] um the next couple line items that were questions were um Sal that we're we're trying to work through that yep that makes complete sense we can move past those okay great thank you um the next question was from you Mrs saer about the supplies and materials for the libraries so the so this section of the budget they request their amounts that that are in there so um that's why there's such a discrepancy between them um some of the schools get more donations from the library for the library than other schools so that's why that would be a VAR vary in those in those budgeted amounts uh the increase in Support Services in general Administration audit fees that is because our auditor increased our audit fees last year in the middle of the year um to about $80,000 and as I have in the notes to the to the board members yes we do go out for RFP for audit every year um School auditing is not a very glorious job so we only last year we only got one response to the request for the proposal we will go out again this year to to see if we can lower that cost I mean that's close to double I will share just at least in the nonprofit world all every organization I know of and have worked with their audit fees went up significantly this year yeah yeah I'm not sure what's leading to that but it is happening kind of across right I don't know whether they were keeping the cost low and this is just they couldn't sustain it anymore um but but Jen of all the Professional Services that a school district pays for the service that understands the timing of a budget the best is our school Auditors right they P the price double the price in the middle of the budget like in the middle of the school year last year in the middle of the school year like the budget's already exactly the budget they're auditing us for for you know being faithful to the budget that taxpayers approved and they're raising the price it doesn't make any sense there's no B of all the services that we pay for that's the one that's would to me doesn't line up at all I would say it's uh limited you're limited in the um pool of individuals you can get to service the schools um there have been some new changes in terms of pronouncements and more work that they have to do but that is not um typical to increase at that rate so that might Isis you you're muted oh I was saying it's not typical to increase at that rate so that might be worth a discussion but there there was more work to do over the last year or so just as a matter of things that are required but not at that rate I understand the rates have gone up right yeah and we and we think that you know we've gotten really good service from our owners but the timing of it is I think really problematic yeah and it wasn't I mean we weren't alone in that well I mean if you were looking at like 43 to 47 right like that makes sense but 43 to close to 80 is that's insane yeah well it doesn't match the rate inflation at all no but they probably they so traditionally you look back at the hours incurred in the past and if you spent a significant amount of time over prior years when there's an opportunity you recoup I don't know um what the pricing is if it's over a course of a couple of years they would look and see okay we really spend this much service so we undercharged in the past but it is really really that was exactly the way they explained it yeah that's probably correct MH because you're bound by the rate of the agreement when you start but you don't know where you're going to end up in terms of service hours changes Etc and then you recoup when you go up for Renewal so Jen just from a context perspective then and I know that this is somewhat subjective did you feel as though the hours that the Auditors spent this past year was significantly more than in previous years no I don't think that the hours were more we actually had a different audit team um that was much more effici um but I do know that their requirements are so much greater and I'm I'm looking at Miss Williams Because I know she she knows this the requirements are just so much greater from the state of New Jersey that that's that's a huge part of it okay and then the Staffing if it's different it might be more senior staff or more experienced staff and then that also comes at a higher rate so um significant increase in telephone services that's just an estimate Mrs Rodman that's an average of the last four years increased by last five years sorry increased by um 3.4% so that was about a $10,000 increase uh significant increase in the 251 line item so that's interesting that you asked about that Mrs Rodman because that's where the salary for the um public information off officer is so due to the increase in the participants in our Communications Consortium we were able to increase her salary so then that just neutrals out on another line item correct correct yeah you'll see the revenue um that I have budgeted for that perfect yep you described it at the beginning that makes perfect sense okay thank you can I ask a question about that I'm sorry Jen I I apologize but any increased Revenue goes to her on her salary side shouldn't we be getting some of the like part of that like I'm I now I'm confused on that one it's not a revenue source so well so could be a revenue Source right so I mean we just talked about $40,000 on a on a on an auditor I mean is if we can get $20,000 off of then then I mean I I don't know why we shouldn't right I mean her salary is her salary she knows what her salary is I mean again correct me if I'm wrong but it shouldn't be contingent on if she gets more people or not more people is that we're paying her salary her benefits we should reap the benefits of if we get more people to sign off on that I mean we're taking the risk correct me if I'm wrong I think hard oh go ahead go ahead Bob I think there's a balance right um you know we we hired her at a salary the the business went crazy it went was a huge success to a point where she's now not only doing all that work she's also managing I think an assistant too um to keep this Consortium going and it's been basically cost free to us at least for this year we were pretty close to it last year they still get to a place where we end up making money on having a Communications liaison um but I don't I I think it's a a delicate balance how much money can do we want to are we able to make a revenue we able to be in the black on on this position Maybe slightly but I think it's I think it's something that we can discuss I only anticipate increasing her salary anymore you know be normal normal 2% 3% increase so a common so I would just say a common fee structure for this type of contract position once it exceeds whatever the full cost of it would be is that as sort of the um reference person right we could potentially find a balance here and charge a finders fee of 20 to 40% of anything in excess of total cost so it's a way to sort of to Jim's Point get on the the black side of things right but then also respect this particular position as a professional and recognize that that's also a significant amount of workload and other resources and additional Personnel that they need to bring into their business so essentially it provides us with an opportunity to assess a finder fee we don't get the full amount above the total but she may or may not have access to some of these clients or districts without us as a common Hub I agree I mean if we're if we're if we're giving her a benefits and her salary then I don't know I mean we should be able to also reap some of the benefit off of this part of it I don't that's why I'm confused on how this would work right if if if we can Farm her out to other things we should definitely it shouldn't be just a negative or or a break even we should probably try to make a little bit of Revenue off this why don't we add an administrative fee Jen to these contracts to every contract for next year add ,000 administrative fee we can certainly look into that yep you know what especially for well let me ask you this question does it have to be even it should be even yeah why why can't we uh have a sliding administrative fee depending on the enrollment of the district I I agree I mean or the time involved right I mean if if one district is requiring us to hold their hand for 80% of her time and we only get her for 10 and everyone else is fighting for the other 10 then I think that other we're already doing that we're already doing that because it's already your your fees are based on time spent in that District so there's already it's not it's not a one shot fee for each district so they pay for the amount of days they're going to need her for they're paying for hours they're paying for hours correct but we have to manage all that she you know it's it's I think an administrative yeah think I think it's a I think there's something there yeah I think it should be a flat administrative fee because it's going to be the same amount whether they're 10% of her salary or 20% of her salary for our Contracting time but if we want to capture even more funds than that I think it's worth a discussion of of somewhat of a finders fee moving forward okay I made note of both of them great and and the the weird thing about this is like we're not trying to expand the service right folks coming to us saying they want to get in on it they wanna they want they want to purchase time you know we were fine when we originally started this I think there was 10 districts everything was completely flush and then we tried to find a way to expand because it grew in popularity and but it's when Anything Grows it becomes harder to manage right so cost have G down to Township but I think it's a good point all right Jen I think we're good to move on I was count we currently have 13 districts that are participating great so just to give you a little bit of context of that okay moving on 13 with one more coming in like this week right Jen yeah yeah we're working on that we'll get that on their board agenda first and then we'll put it on ours um the next couple questions are in reference to salaries where there's a significant a little bit of a change the 261 is our buildings maintenance and grounds uh we hired that H hbac technician that's really been helping a Sal's doing all those um he working 11 to7 and working on all of the um our maintenance stuff Jen with the referendum passing and getting new HVAC is there going to be a need for that still like a huge need for it I know he's fixing things as oh for an hbac mechanic yeah yeah they'll still be they'll there will still be a need for someone to maintain them yes definitely yeah because there's we're getting some new systems we're keeping some of the old systems so it's not going to be all brand new but yeah they're going to you need somebody to maintain them change the filters do routine maintenance on them all of that need still needs to be done Jen and Bob can I ask the uncomfortable question and it is nothing personal at all but have we and and I was going to ask about the buses the grounds people is there have we explore the idea and I'm not advocating for it I'm just asking the uncoverable question about PRI PRI privatizing some of that right getting getting out of the I mean and I'm not saying I appreciate it or or want to do it but at the end of the day if we have to drop our costs it's a it's a way to drop our costs so I'm just asking that question I mean Transportation busing Grounds Maintenance to to Marie point hbac we have to do it it's always going to be there but do we do we need to have someone on salary with benefits and and and and I'm not saying yes or no I'm just asking that question no that's a great point something to look into to see if we can save money that way may I chime in on that I have to go back to the gota be careful Jim with the bus transportation we had that before we had it farmed out before and uh the buses at that time were unreliable the drivers from some of these outside outfits were unreliable you know uh people uh who you really wouldn't want to drive a bus with your kids on it uh listening to crazy music with a bunch of cursing uh and it's just terrible we have no control once we go that route we have no control over the personnel and uh how they're presenting themselves and driving our precious children children I would not go back to that we were there before it took us a few years to get out of that so we have our own people whom we can depend on and again John I'm not saying yes or no I'm just saying at this point in time when we're talking about other ways to reduce costs is there a way to is this a a way to do it and I'm not saying bus drivers I'm saying sort of these sport staff that's out there right I mean the guys that cut our on and I'm not saying that them I'm just asking that question is can we privatize some of those services and save money for other educational needs and I'm not again I'm not discounting it I'm not saying those folks aren't important because I I appreciate everything those folks do I'm just saying at the end of the day if if the main driver is to educate our kids saying this diplomatically the person who cuts our grass is not not necessarily someone that I'm maybe that's not where we should spend the most amount of our money you want to know that we've not we have not left any stone unturned correct thank you we've explored every angle of how to reduce the costs correct thank you Chen to that point for our um new food service most of our staff stayed on with the food service is that correct well they're not our staff they're their staff but some of them did and some of them chose to go with neutr serve yes okay because I mean that might be something if if we would go out that they do offer our current staff positions too right so those people who were with the food service were they all offered positions yes they were so that's oh yes oh I see what you're saying now I that's what I'm saying like so our people but paid through a different Source right yes I think you also ability you also have to however take into consideration that when when you Outsource a service you're at the mercy of their increasing prices as well so we just talked about the Auditors and how they increased that you know a pretty substantial amount and we know everyone is working to recoup costs lost during covid so I would just be mindful that one of the benefits of keeping things in houses we have a little bit more control of costs we can budget accordingly um I see some of the h that contracts come across my and they're ridiculous they have so many built-in maintenance service fees annual required this that then when they come on site there's another very large fee so you just have to be mindful of that good to Echo that Jen I appreciate the comment that you made in our notes just regarding more flexibility around outof District placements if those drivers are in house as opposed to having to work through a a contract Service it gives us a little a little bit more flexibility with with Staffing and schedules and things of that nature much more flexibility um we also have you know routes that need to come up this the this chall needs a route in three days and our drivers can do that whereas if we Outsource we when we try to put that out to C County ad Services it's it's a great deal more expensive and we're waiting and waiting and waiting for them to get the route so it is it is nice to have our own transportation that way that way so so we segue into trans the transportation questions now because I think that's where we are um you wanted context around the increases in the transportation cost so the district increased the amounts of drivers and AIDS we increased their salaries in order to become more competitive we are now fully staffed in transportation um it's going very well our transportation department right now um what I have in here is if we look at the actual cost for 2223 our Outsource Transportation was $716,000 so far in 2324 we're on target to pay about 700,000 what we have worked through for next year with April is to bring in more Transportation inhouse um I think we discussed with the finance and Facilities committee we're buying a large bus that holds uh many wheelchairs we can bring one of those routes in so that's why if you see the salaries are increasing for the transportation department we're trying to decrease those out of District um costs for the transportation so it's kind of a it's actually a savings of $70,000 that's what we're trying to do there uh the next is did that explain it yep that's a perfect correlation I I missed the connection between those two line items so that's and the outage distri placement as that goes up the the cost of Transportation goes up as well so we we're working really hard um with our transportation department to try to keep those costs down thank you Mrs saer you asked about the capital um Reserve transfer that is no longer happening because the budget uh the bond referendum has passed so that's out and you can see that on the the new sheets that I sent you um you also asked I think I talked about this already the uh undistributed expenditures in the central services that is our department in the the Board of Education that's everything that falls under me um and we can certainly look at places to cut there the last time we had a budget reduction we did cut a payroll person and that position was absorbed by the school accountant so she now does all the school accounting and the payroll if this budget if we had an increase I was going to to pitch to the board that we hire our parttime peral person so we just had somebody to do the input there so I really do not see any any places in in there to to cut any positions um Mr sat you also asked about the signup.com I spoke with our Middle School principal the uh Mr suiki and that is used for the parent teacher conferences sign up at the middle school that's about $100 so they can't really do that parent teacher conference sign up with that he didn't see any other way to do that does that answer your question okay I think that's okay yeah I mean it's just $100 I think if you're willing to have ads you don't need to pay for it potentially but it does seem to be a small cost so Kristen just for context as a parent who's used that particular program it's a much more complicated signup than something like a signup genius right so you have multiple teachers multiple time slots um it's it's pretty robust and complex which is probably why we need a paid account I was going to say we use that as well in my district for ours it's very complicated okay that's fine yeah I've used it for basic signups but I probably wasn't aware of all the features because I'm not paying for it so thank you that helps the next question was on the line 2113 which is the resource room um salaries and the expenses uh it appears 2324 was lower than expected it was lower than expected um we had a a leave in that section and a and a midyear retirement so that's why 2020 324 was a little bit lower in there that comes to the end of the board questions is there anything anyone else yes I would like to may I um yeah ask a question and also give a comment Adam president yes uh Bob uh is Bob still on right now yes I don't see Bob uh can you comment on the meeting with our state representatives uh what was their conclusion are they going to help us work on helping us anything there the one thing that I I'm very surprised that has been confirmed I think both on the call that we had and today there was something released from I think another senator from Mammoth County who had hearings today in Trenton it it's I'm fairly certain that you know everything that we suspected in terms of the reason for the loss in state aid has been confirmed and that our original information that it was because of the increasing of our property values an increase in income of our residents percent of change or percent of increase or total increase of income this circuited unintentionally a a loss in in state 8 um and it was a shock to our um legislators as much as it was a shock to us but for whatever reason it the information that came out today and the information that was shared on the call is that this was this is true you know these these two factors are true you know these have been confirmed so you know I I think that there is hope I mean I I think that you know our local legislators you know spoke you know with a strong commitment to try to recapture some of this funding and now I'm hearing a lot of information coming out of the hearings both Monday that Kelly testified and also today about trying to change the formula or fix the formula or improve the formula so these sudden drops in state a don't occur anymore no promises were made John um but I think that there's hope um that we could see this money return to us well that would be wonderful Kelly I appreciate you testifying so far I wrote a letter to the governor but I would appreciate uh Kelly as president if you could lead us in some way in drafting uh a letter letters uh to our elected officials um now I've been through this 31 times now since it's how long I've been on the school board so I have a suggestion uh Bob for you uh as you lead the administrators in uh what to do first of all we hope we can get the aid restored that's number one secondly you know you're going to have to go through this with your administrators and eventually come up with a solution I would suggest this is my suggestion that you would meet uh with our committees individually Finance Etc uh and and speak to each committee uh Kelly as your time allows I would join those meetings as you're our conduit being the president and after that uh then Bob it will obviously be your and Jen's responsibility to meet again uh with the administration and to come up with hopefully by that time uh we find that state aid has been improved D if not obviously you're going to have to come up with like three scenarios a b and c and you're G to have to come up with like okay scenario a we have to do these Cuts uh and we have to come up with the the least harmful way to do this for kids so you're gonna have probably like a b and c like three scenarios scenario a b c to present to the board well we can do this but if we do this out of column a column B is going to do this and column C is going to do this Etc and then the board will have to look at everything and eventually you know make the tough decisions and hopefully like I said I pray and I hope and we need to write to these legislators and the governor please God let them restore our Aid if not in the manner that I suggest we're going to have to eventually come to a decision and uh so I wish everyone luck and Bob I wait to hear from you and Jen thank you I think that process sounds pretty congruent with what we had envisioned John certainly I'll be meeting with the Committees certainly we're we're going to have continuous conversations with the administration um options it may not be option ABC uh it may be you know the First Cut is preparing for the worst case scenario and when we communicate these decisions to folks it may with be with the caveat that we can't guarantee certain individuals position that has have some schools next year but that could change in you know in the upcoming months but to be fair to individuals have to go out and you know you want to go out and find another job I think we have to be honest you know as quickly as possible so these these folks have an opportunity to go out and seek employment elsewhere if we're not guaranteeing them position next year very good Kelly are we taking questions from the public are we we at that point uh we're not at that point yet you need to vote on the budget first and then we'll open it up for comment are there any additional questions on the budget from the board I do just I just want to just make a quick comment I apologize I just I mean I don't know we we go through this budet cycle and we pretend that we're it's it's we get some money we lose some money we get some money we get some like we pretend that we're always going to get money and I don't understand why we always pretend that way it it infuriates me to no end that we we get some money in two years we lose some money in two years so what drives me nuts about this is that we we this is this this is this part of the cycle right we're never going to always get money that's what it so have to make these Cuts so we're have to it's going to be hurt it's going to be painful we talked about it when we had the money like it so what I don't understand is why are we surprised that we're getting cut we my my 10 year again I haven't been on the board for 31 years but it's pretty close to 10 is that we get money and we lose money I I'm just surprised that we're shocked that we're losing money I mean this just seems like it's every state budget that I've been part of this process that we go through this EV and flow of this so we have to be able to absorb this in the way that we can absorb this and and make it as minimal impactful for the kids as possible so that's why I'm just perplexed on you know we can Lobby we can you know we can hope we can pray but I I would rather plan for the worst as Bob said and because that's what's gonna happen let's be fair I mean because the towns that got money are not going to say well we'll give you guys yeah you guys are right we we you you should have some more money we'll give it back to you it it's a it's it's not an infinite pot of money right it's X number of dollars some win and some lose so I I just I'm perplexed by we were always we we when we had money last year we were happy and we did this and now all of a sudden we don't have any money I don't know I'm just more like let's figure out how we can more like let's make this more sustainable and not do what we constantly do and add people and lose people I again I'm just I'm more frustrated than anything else yeah listen I I think there's an answer though right at least I can speak myself being in education for 20 years right um every superintendent in this state of New Jersey has had the same training we're all very doubt into the importance of enrollment everyone knows about S2 you know slightly you know sometime right before covid or right after covid our enrollment was down I think under 2,000 students um we we had lost money in the past I think because of declining enrollment the state has was very upfront and honest with us about the S2 formula and the effect that would have on districts that continue to lose enrollment that has been the name of the game in New Jersey state funding as long as I can remember you know as for as a decade you know as a as a superintendent in New Jersey for the last decade this these cuts that were made because of increasing property values or or residents increasing income came out of nowhere and that's why I'm surprised I never heard that this was even part of the metric me and a bunch of other folks like we that's that's that's the answer right I mean had we be down 100 students this year I would not have been surprised our C S2 that's not the case you know Cherry did Cherry Hill lose that many students I I again I don't I will never pretend to understand State budgets and I'm not gonna but I just know it goes there's there's gives and there's takes right if you have if you have X number of towns you have to spread the wealth out as much as you possibly can so that's why I'm more perplexed by what I mean we got money we lose money and that's why I again and I'm just more like I we've talked about it where when we increase salaries I just always bothers me to that point because this is where we're at now so good I'm sorry I don't want to talk about other districts in a public meeting but I will since you brought it up Char Hill was on the other side they were increasing uh in enrollment they were on the underfunded side of S2 as I know and they were expecting a boost in in state aid so whatever part of the algorithm that dealt with property values or income is the same metric that hurt Cherry Hill that hurt lenp Regional School District that hurt Oakland that hurt uh me you know it's we were all kind of negatively affected by the same part of this algorithm that no one even knew about I think the hardest part oh go ahead Kelly no you go ahead I think the hardest part is that we can't go to the town and ask them to increase our 2% so even though we have a larger tax base or increase it it we can't do anything with it anyway and that's I think frustrating on our part like if it's part of the algorithm but we can't use it then what's the point of it being part of the algorithm that they're using J can I speak no go ahead sure yeah can I speak to that as well sure so as Bas we're always we are trained to never try to estimate what your state eight is going to be it is always always always budget Flat state a so you never anticipate a loss that's just the way that's that's the way it's always been that's our training No my only my only comment to that is that with with with Benefits increasing as much as they increase with salaries increase where we are I mean it just feels like you know we can't increase taxes enough to maintain those so anytime and again and I'm not saying this we shouldn't have had sta but anytime we add to the bubble it adds to the bubble and it's just one of those things that and I'm I and again I know I'm it's just my frustration to this whole process is that we talked about it you know two years ago we were going through this process and and it's when we add people and I'm not saying we don't need the folks it's just we know again for 31 years but my time on the board is that we give we lose and we give and we lose and I'm not saying we should budget for those parts of it but this is not something where I'm shocked that we're losing money I I this is just this is just I mean I'll be careful I say this but this just feels like it's just one of the things it's the Magic World of New Jersey politics right it becomes you know how money gets given out and not given out so I don't know but okay listen I wanna I do want to comment on that and I I don't want to disagree with you but there was something that was in the middle of that right so the the two things that you said was we were given money right um and then we lost money and when we were given money we added positions and a lot of those positions were at it budget it with the original Sr money in between the time that we were awarded that money where we added positions and that now we're gonna have to eliminate positions if nothing changes in between that amount of time thousands of kids were serviced and helped previous to that had sat home for two years and not been in school right so that was the purpose of those funds coming out of covid where kids weren't in school and we're in a tough spot right now and we like you said we might need to tighten our belts and make hard decisions and absorb some of those positions that were added I get it I don't like it I get it but I'm not at a point to say that it was a mistake adding that amount of staff to our budget because we needed to we're coming out of a pandemic something that we none of us had ever experienced before we needed to help those kids and we did no and and I'm not saying saying that particularly I'm just saying at the end of the day when you get grant money and we increase staff when we go through that and the grant money is not there then all of a sudden we're in the same point where we were that's what I talked about before and I'll continue to say the same thing is that you know you when you when you get a gift you use the gift and when the gift goes away don't be surprised when it goes away that's all I'm saying and I'll continue to say the same thing it's all blue in the face is when you increase staff on that part of it this is the stuff we have to deal with and I'm not saying it's good or bad right or wrong I'm just saying as a board we shouldn't be surprised that we're not getting money this is where this process happens I mean that's why I'm perplexed on where we are with this is that you know we can ask this Trenton so we're blue in the face I just think that you know that the towns that got money aren't going to give us any more money back so let's just come to the realization let's make the hard decisions as John said and let's move on with that but you I don't know I mean maybe I think I think different what's different here Jim than has been in previous years at least from what I've seen is there are actually potentially immediately helpful bills in the legislature that would affect our bottom line in a positive way right now that we can be advocating for and the public can be advocating for because they already have support from the education committees so the special education bill that exists that would bring us more than a million dollars in costs that we already spent and aren't being captured or that we could recapture because of changing the funding formula around special education which has been messed up the entire time that the funding formula has exist existed since 2008 so that would be a significant change if that bill passes and goes into law huge change for us and for every other District who has higher special education classification rates than the current state average so that there's like some tangible pieces here I think the other piece is that the legislature the assembly and the Senate it seems pretty clear that everyone has realized this is this funding formula is not working and needs to be Revisited there are three bills in the assembly now there's one in the Senate right now there was a hearing just about the funding formula today not specific to bills that again it's different the momentum and the thinking feels different from the state and I know I need to be careful with how much I get my hopes up because historically that has not worked out super well for us but this is where I think advocacy in the past hasn't necessarily gone very far for us but now there is like very tangible advocacy like Advance these bills that you're already working to advance and we're telling you we support them as well and have your back as you work to get them ped that I think puts us in a different place than we have been in previous years sounds good I I'll be optimistic but I mean again it's just one of those things where I I just think we just as a board we should just continue to plan for the worst yes I think that's true while fighting for a better outcome to it's not the worst this is this is I mean John has been 31 years right this is every part of any board has ever gone through I mean aside from the the the recession there's some ones and there's some losses so this is not anything that it's not I don't know I mean my 10 year on the board we've done oh Jim's phone died he mentioned it was likely gonna happen it happened on a cliffhanger oh well well you know any any oh sorry I was just gonna say I mean yes in 31 years there's been ups and downs but we have to have hope and as Jen said we have to uh budget in the professional manner that she's been trained in that's who we rely on as our business administrator and so you know that's all we can really do and nothing surprises me after 31 years I've seen it all up down and sideways so but we have to hope for the best try for the best and wish for the best all done I think I think hope for the best and plan for the worst is where we are I mean if anything is restored it's not going to before the beginning of May and we're going to have to make these decisions before the beginning of may just we are I do want to move us forward to vote on our budget we've kind of moved into a world that's not about our specific budget it's a little bit more around State funding but I did see Mrs robman you came off of mute and I want to make sure you have space thank you Kelly I just wanted to make two quick comments one was to thank Jen for your careful attention to the very specific questions that a number of board members posed in advance of this meeting you know we went line by line and and really tried to do our due diligence to find as many pockets as we could and your responses were incredibly specific as well as your followup this evening so I I truly want to thank you for that it's made it much easier for us to do our work as as board members and then I mentioned this during our previous meeting last week but because we had very few members of the public present I just wanted to State it again that as we continue this work in the interest of serving as many of our students as possible because some of these line items might get very small as we have to keep you know cutting away at things to to get to where we need to be I just want to encourage us to continue looking at economy of scale right so where are the things serving the most students whether that's courses clubs Athletics we we want to make sure that we're trying to reach as many of our students as possible and that may mean making some really tough decisions around some of those those smaller opportunities for students we hate to make any Cuts but I just want to make sure that we're being as strategic as possible as we continue that work and I know that that's certainly been the approach up until this point thank you Al I have a question I have a process question for Jen too and I I don't know the answer Jen yes in your in your mind right the board is hopefully G to approve the budget to be sent to the county tonight it's gonna be on March the 20th correct County hopefully will approve it and then there's going to be a public hearing I think the first week of May correct yes okay so at that point the public and the board essentially approve public hearing on the budget right they the board adopts the budget on May 2nd yes okay that's correct just adopted let's say for example in July all the funding is restored or half of it is restored right um so at that point say there's $400,000 on a sideline maybe there's $800,000 on the sideline what is the process for us to putting that money back into the budget do we have have to have another Board hearing to explain how we are going to utilize that money we will have to have another board we will have another board meeting to explain public hearing another public meeting yeah to explain how we're gonna use that money yeah absolutely yeah so can I ask the question at that point then we go back through kind of line by line to put back where we the places where we want to put the money back in same way kind of reverse order same as we did before if when we lost money in July I don't know if you remember that we went through it and decided where we were going to take that money away and then we approved the budget again so this would just be essentially if we got it we'd put it back line by line yeah when had lost money in July of I think it was 7 is that right 19 19 17 or 18 I thought it was 19 19 when that happened did other districts receive money during the summertime or that I I can't speak to that I don't I honestly don't remember to go back through my notes to find us losing that yeah I don't have I've never experienced a situation where we've received money in July though the it happened last year for districts that received significant state aid Cuts oh it did a pot of money was identified and revenue was returned like given back to districts that lost money in July the state has said there will be significantly less Revenue maybe no money to do that in the future all right I want I want to move us forward other questions or comments specific to the budget we are about to vote on if not I ask I see a member of the public with your hand up we're doing that after the vote is when we have public yep thank you John sure do we want to see if Jim can get back on before we do a vote I haven't heard from him so I'm not sure that that's feasible do we have enough for a vote Yes we do we have one I just messaged I'm not getting a response so I think we need to move forward great all right can I get a motion to approve item 3.1 the approval of the 2024 202 tentative budget for submission to the county office so any additional questions roll call this is Desi yes Mr Kendall yes Miss Rodman yes Miss saer yes Miss Williams yes Miss SLE yes all right thank you all we are now going to open it up for discussion and um comments sorry comments from the public for the Board of Education this can be on any item um whether or not it was on the agenda this evening if you would like to make a comment please raise your hand in Zoom so that we know that you'd like to speak and can make sure you come off mute when you come off mute please state your name and address for the record and I see we have uh a hand raised from Mr Anderson so if we can get Mr Anderson off of mute and turn it over to you okay thank you very much and thank you it's been very fascinating listening to everything you're talking about uh kudos to you for the bond issue passing you and that's a tremendous thing and uh I'm glad it's going to happen uh it's fascinating hearing the discussions about Revenue I just want to make you aware of the fact and Bob I'm assuming this is still in place many districts have something called school choice you just look down the pike a little bit and I know col has had it and that's been a significant source of Revenue I would hope that once you get past this immediate problem with such a wonderful program that that hadn't Township has you would consider school choice as being a revenue enhancer plus the benefits of diverse people coming to the district would be tremendous so I just would encourage you to think about that I know that's not been a starter in the past but I know it's been a significant Revenue enhancer for many districts which are not nearly as good as how in Township is and could certainly help build a nest so thank you for considering that thank you Mr Anderson any other comments from members of the public we're just going to hold for a moment in case folks are trying to raise their hands great I see another hand raised just before you take that question just remind me before the next meeting to look into uh the process you how many seats were would even be open for school choice where the state of New Jersey is with school choice I think it's probably worth revisiting but give me a reminder yep can do yeah I was gonna say there's a hand up I I know Steve if we can get Carlos unmuted Mr M Mr fisicaro you're doing a great job keep up the good work we need your name and address please uh Sheamus Quinn 214 to Ludo Avenue thank you thank you thank you again we'll we'll hold for another few moments in case folks are trying to raise their hands I know if you're not familiar with it it can take a little bit of time to figure it out in Zoom okay seeing none I do want to share um I had shared um through social media uh a draft letter that community members could utilize in communicating with our elected officials if folks wanted to if folks haven't received that if you're interested in advocating on behalf of Haden Township um school funding please reach out to Dr ficaro myself Mrs GD and we can help you you in those advocacy efforts and understanding where we might have the most leverage right now um happy to share anything we can thank you to this community for being so supportive of us all the time and so supportive of our schools and school district um we are we truly do really feel that support from the community we experienced it with the bond referendum the other day we experience it continuously in the ways that folks are engaged with our schools and with the school district and so if there are additional ways you want to be part of this process please just reach out and let us know and we'll make sure that you have what you need to do that you are also able to do advocacy on your own um so you don't need to tell us if you want to do some advocacy on the district's behalf but if we can be helpful please reach out please send that information Kelly yes I will I will thank you apologies for not having sent it to the board already Kelly can I also thank Jen for all the due diligence she did with um the book and answering our questions and you know letting us have that format so we could ask and get the information we needed so that we could all digest this very difficult process and think of ways that we could help or Advocate or look into other avenues of funding um so thank you very much Jen for taking the time to thank you thank you for taking the time to look at it and asking intelligent questions it was great thanks Jen oh Jim's got his hand up Jim is back um but probably needs to be unmuted do you need me to vote do you need me to vote on the uh budget or are we good we have already done a vote but we can um record your vote I'll vote yes thank you uh members of the board is uh and Dr physico Mrs shorter Mrs G is there anything else any comments before we adjourn uh I think it's worth thanking the community for the outcome of the bond referendum uh throughout the whole process you know as a board as a superintendent as an employee you know we're not permitted to be out there saying vote Yes for the referendum we had to be neutral in our uh in our Marketing in terms of just encouraging folks to um to vote and to participate and to let their voice be heard uh but I think that I will always believe this and that the reason that this Bond referendum was successful is because of the process that our community was able to begin with us three years ago um basically providing us with helping us measure what the values of the community were what the priorities of the community were for our school district so we able to capture all this information in a thorough detailed way over the course of you know two and a half solid years before we came together as a board and administration to determine what projects would actually make the referendum so without our community support on the front end and helping us plan the projects and on the back end of helping to follow through with the voting mechanism you know this referendum would not be successful so um said it for a long time the strength of our school district is our community this is a great example board did a phenomenal job coming together to work uh to decide on these projects as you are aware it was not always easy you know we not everyone always agreed we had some tough meetings um but I think that we we have a great vision um for the future from an infrastructure standpoint so thank you thank you Dr pakara all right can I get a motion to adjourn no moved second all in favor hi thank you all have a great night you too thanks everyone appreciate you being here thank you