##VIDEO ID:TxWoSUw0qnM## 631 remember John Cameron sque remember him John Cameron used drop it all the car State Building keeps on keeps takes look at it keep this is weird all right what are we missing nobody Angley can you mom is that your water no sitting no I think you picked it up not sure it is I saw you pick one up yeah I did pick careful opening with those funny tops splin some you think go to Mexico City tomorrow what for a wedding wedding and my brother's only child I have to go and I really don't want to go I'll be back on Monday unless we get out there Sunday the problem is um flight you know so Mexico City her fiance make sure who's that Scott or yeah no Scott did it everybody no they're going to live in man oh no actually BR they already got married in the United States you want so they got to do it down to keep well they just had a little ceremony up they go for you this is your meeting go yeah thank you all okay for the online por yes all right it's uh it's a little past 6:30 uh I'm going to call the uh hesport Township joint land use board meeting for October 2nd 2024 to order we have flag salute initially please stand to the FL of the United States of America and to the repblic for it stands Nation God IND [Music] thank you um I'm Tom Mckay I'm the vice chair presiding over the meeting tonight um can we have a reading of the Sunshine Law please this meeting was published in according to open public meetings act excuse me careful you're at the end of your V so to [Music] speak all right um are we all set with microphones then yes sir uh we have a new appointee uh to be sworn in we have two uh two why do I only have one resol we have one alternate and one regular member correct um the resolution uh hyport Township resolution 2024 141 D9 appoints uh Richard Gus Bradley as a uh regular member uh the class 4 and then we have two alternate members uh class 4 alternate number one would be Richard Murphy class 4 alternate number four would be Thomas is said micaa M mikai okay all right um with both of you please uh stand up and be sworn raise your right hand please do you solemnly swear or affirm that you will support the Constitution of the United States the Constitution of the state in New Jersey that you will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and the governments established in the United States and in this state under authority of the people that you will faithfully impartially and justly perform all the duties of office of hesport Township joint land use board member according to the best of your ability thank you congratulations uh we we also have to swear in Mr Bradley too right no Mr Bradley was swor in um when he was the be of the Year oh all right so he doesn't have to be so you're just elevating him basically yes yes okay all right uh we announce regularly and we'll do it tonight that we have no new business after 10:30 p.m. that means that we won't start any matter after 10:30 p.m. uh so now that we have our two new alternate members and our uh our new uh regular member can we have a roll call Mrs Tori here Mrs Kelly here mayor Gilmore here Mr tooi here Mrs bgio here Mr C Murphy yes here Miss Costco here Mr Bradley here uh Mr novita absent Mr Holden absent Mr R Murphy here Mr McKai here Mr McKay here all right um we next have to deal with uh two nominations um because of the um resignation uh due to personal reasons of Mr cifer uh we need to replace the chair um and so at this point I will call for nominations for the chairperson for the balance of this year so it's just from today till uh our reorganization meeting in January i' would like to know Domin Tom I'll second second all right are there other nominations all right um can we have unanimous consent for closing the nominations all those in favor against all right so the nominations are closed and take a vote please um Mrs Kelly yes mayor Gilmore yes Mrs uh Tori yes Mr Bradley yes Mr Choi yes Mrs bgio yes Mr C Murphy yes Miss Costco yes and Mr MC yes thank you for placing your confidence in me uh let's do the same for the vice chair position um may I have a nomination for vice chair for the balance of this year nominate Mr toochi I second do I hear any other nominations do I have consent to unanimously to close the nominations yes yes yes uh all right let's take a vote please uh Mr Murphy yes uh Mrs bajio yes Mrs Tori yes Mr Bradley oh yeah Eric Gilmore yes Mr tooi yes surpr Mr C Murphy I we already voted Sorry Miss Costco yes and Mr McKay yes you didn't call me but I say yes okay Mrs Coy I thought I did sorry okay congratulations Mr choshi thank you you look sure you look forward to looking forward to it a little bit of a surprise no that's all right people have faith in you uh Murphy you can do it all right uh let me uh deal with the items for the for for uh for business today now I know uh I noticed Mr dele is here um are we moving forward on that today uh good evening Mr chairman members of the board congratulations to those of you who are uh appointed or taking up uh uh a higher position um here's the issue that I have Mr MC and first of all I have a couple of documents all right this is case 23- z6a jdeb Mar Highway LLC it's on scheduled for final site plan review but I just called you up because I had a feeling that we weren't going to proceed tonight well I'm going to tell you what my problem is and ask you how you want to handle it uh if I have to go tonight I am ready I think the better practice would be to give us a chance to work out issues that were in the review letters I receiv received the review letters late uh Friday and Monday and we haven't had an awful lot of time to review them we believe there are resolutions that we could work out with your Professionals in a in in a in a meeting with them we have met with them before to make sure that we are we all on the same page and we know what we're doing uh there's also an an issue that there may be with regard to a variance and there's some question I'd have to work that out with Mr Kingsbury as to whether or not an additional notice would be necessary I don't think it would but I don't want to uh go through a whole hearing and then find out that uh like I say I believe that if we'd go forward tonight this is going to be a very very long meeting because there's an awful lot of questions that he has raised that we have answers for but it's going to involve a a little give and take however if you give me an opportunity and give my uh professionals an opportunity to sit and work with your professionals uh I think we can uh come in with a consensus that will make uh the meeting far more efficient and far better for everyone well I think you you hit the nail on the head because I did my homework this afternoon on this and um I've got pages and pages and pages of questions uh when I when I read the review letters I I normally put notes in the margin and I I I ran out of room uh there there are and there're legitimate questions I'm not criticizing the uh the uh the letters by any means uh but there were a lot more uh questions and again I think we can answer them rather uh uh uh efficiently if I had the chance to had time to talk to the professionals I didn't mean to interrupt you Mr chairman is the property no you didn't interrupt me is the property still under lease by the applicant yes it is and so he has uh he has never consummated a sale at this point he has not let me just uh so I can fill in that blank for you the agreement provides that uh we are required to close after we receive old land use approvals okay so we're not under an obligation to complete the purchase of it and uh it's a little bit of a catch 22 because we want to get started we're as anxious as everybody else to get this done because we want to get started cleaning up the site and and making improvements and what have you and it's difficult to say all right I'm going to improve this but I never know if I'm going to be able to do what I have to do here so we we are uh uh anxious to move forward and yes we are still under agreement I I spoke with the sellers attorney earlier today to explain him what I was going to do tonight and how I was going to do it uh and uh we're all on that we're all on the same page we would like to get this uh done as soon as we can and uh all right the seller is the estate of Mrs r or the that's correct that's correct is there a representative of the state here tonight uh not that you're aware of I'm the you are um would you come forward please and state your name and be sworn Mr want to ask a couple questions just to flush no perfectly fine sir would you raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm Tes truth truth truth yes sir sorry to pull you out of the audience without without fair warning crowded room yeah uh can you give us your name Tom Barto oh you're Mr BTO yes okay and just for the record just explain your relationship to the state uh St r is my grandmother all right and you're R White is my mother you're a beneficiary under the trust yes okay um you've heard what Mr deia proposed you you have any objection to this from what I understand there is not a valid lease in place he's it is I don't know the terminology he has not maintained the lease in accordance with what was agreed to I thought Mr Applegate was going to be here this evening apparently he's not so I'm not sure what's going on that's the trust attorney you're referring to yes kid Applegate and he's from where Medford I guess I don't know okay I've never met him and what you say the uh the uh lease is um he's no longer Mr Kennedy's no longer in compliance with the the lease he has done he has done nothing to continue with the environmental cleanup like he's supposed to there were things that were supposed to be done in accordance with that in a timely manner they've all expired we are liable now for whatever comes down the road there the lease that they are talking about was only for a year my understanding that's expired he does pay the taxes but he does not pay us any revenue for being on the property anymore he does not maintain the property at all anymore as you can see by the picture all right I misspoke it's Mr Livingston not Mr Kennedy um all right um do you have anything to add to what you just told me other than I live on two Spruce Lane which is right across the street from the property I have a test well on my property so my concern about the remediation is Paramount since my property is affected by it and as one of the uh inheritors were're we're tired of we want him gone we just want him gone so I can clean the place up and we can start over again we don't believe he's going to buy the property this is just a a formality to keep caring it on all right thank you sir yeah absolutely Mr J um I I appreciate where he's coming from and by the way uh this has been a frustrating thing for the seller as well as us we've had uh a lot of issues here uh number one the contract requires uh specifically states that closing will be X number I haven't looked at it in a while so I'm going by memory but this much I do know uh of it uh I don't believe I have a copy here do you have it can I Mr deia just you're paging through that but you can listen to me at the same time I don't know that it serves any purpose to have a debate over whether the contract's been breached or not it certainly hasn't been adjudicated as being breached correct um so even though there might be some contest to the validity of it at this point that that's all they are as allegations so we can't treat them as anything more than that for purposes of this hearing right and the one the the one issue that there is no dispute I mean Mr Applegate and I uh who by the way may not be here tonight because when I spoke to him earlier I believe he said he had a hearing in another town uh but I talked to him about it and I've had uh extensive uh correspondence with him about the date of closing uh uh part of what Tom said was right uh the contract called for closing by December 31 2023 or after all the approvals are in place um uh the latter of those two two events it's clear that we're still under contract I'll be glad to give you a memo uh send you the contract give you a memo I mean I we have standing I'm not worried about I don't I don't think we need to debate that okay but the issue I think is and I want to have I want to have individual board members ask you questions if they have any in addition to to my questions sure but I think the issue really from both uh the ri's if I can call them the rif estate point of view and your point of view is uh why has this dragged on as long as it as it has um and there may be a lot of reasons but this uh application was originally filed almost a year ago this application for the site plan no this this initial application correct for the variance which would in have included ultimately a site plan was filed uh almost a year ago that's correct and we're still not even close to a a site plan that is sufficient to vote on I mean the the the the plan that was submitted that I've reviewed this afternoon and is the the the number of issues is is pages long eight pages from Mr Taylor alone yeah exactly and another three or four from the engineer a lot correct a lot of there's a lot of overlap there's overlap it's a lot of P it's a lot of pages and I believe that many of them are easily easily resolved well but I need a chance that may may or may not be the case but but you're entitled to your chance to to do that thank you but we can't let this carry on forever thank the question is uh if this board and I'm going to let individual members ask you questions sure before we vote obviously if this board gives you another month um that should be it wouldn't you agree absolutely agree I absolutely agree I wouldn't want to could go any further than than that uh I want to meet with your professionals next week if I can and then we can we can clean all this stuff up uh with regard to your I just want to comment uh for the record uh I think you're you're right about the year ago it was applied for I believe you are correct in that when we got the approval for the variance we were given a specific period of time within which to make the application for the site plan you were given it in February the ordinance excuse me the uh resolution was done in February yeah and you were given three months and we filed on May 9th filed on May 9th yes we we we we filed it within the time frame and again I you're asking me about delays I I didn't see review letters until very very recently I'm not blaming anybody I'm not allocating blame I don't want to throw your in your professionals on under the bus they do a great job neither am I but the fact remains that we are a year from almost a year from the original uh application for the variance and we need to move this along we there's one thing you and I agree on because I got to get this done because part of the this application I got to get this done in order to be able to go to the D and work out all those environmental issues and I have deadlines that I have to meet we don't want to delay this we're not doing this for delay we're doing this to have to get an approval uh that's consistent with uh uh you know sound planning I I don't know what else to tell you all right uh let me ask the board members if um if any the board members have questions uh of Mr deia yeah I'm just here is just my memory from the last time we were talking about it's under contract subject to approvals uh but how long is the I think I last time Kathy told us that the operation has already been it's not a proposed operation to clean the restaurant equipment it's already been happening how long has that been in operation have you've been operating the property for about a year or we we've been I would say we've been operating properly since we got the approval for the uh variances and and we can make no secret we were in operation before that I I was just curious is anything different going to happen in the property someday then it's already happening now it's it's whatever is proposed is it already been taking place yes you understand the question what the question try the question again I'm sorry your business yes it's not proposed for the site you are you already operating the business on the site I've pretty much ceased operations at this point I mean right now the place is is just being uh storage at this point it's until this is all worked out I pretty much have ceased operation okay the purpose of the question was I just wanted to know how the neighbors felt around here have they been used to this operation that's proposed has it been going on are there any complaints from the neighbors noise get traffic anything we've never had a we we're we're not a there's been no complaints right to us right and you know everything about the business sounds like it's smacks of something that should be an industrial park it's an industrial use sounds like it should be a 10 to 15,000 ft building on a 2 Acres or more lot in an industrial park where the neighbors are doing similar uses an industrial this is a residential neighborhood so that's the purpose of my question is has there been any problems the local residents are saying hey there's too much noise or anything but it sounds like no not when you when you hear the rest of the testimony and if you recall uh with the variance application there is no no no noise uh it uh everything that's done is is done indoors we've never had a uh again we've never had any complaints no less a noise one uh you always worry about in industrial areas you worry about smell uh no issues with regard to smell we're fixing we're fixing uh refrigerators and and uh ovens okay uh there's no smell that comes from that there's no there's no U there's just no Environ Al impact of the of that nature and uh again that's why yes it's in a residential Zone but if you recall this property because of the prior use has issues with eni with the environment okay and one of the things I stressed when I came before the board for the uh variances was the fact that uh to bring this property up to environmental compliance with the residential standards is impossible there's no one going to do it it's going to cost too much not going to be able to sell a house we are proposing this use which is the Lesser standard still good but it's the D standards that we're following and we're following the uh the commercial standards uh we have already uh done a lot of Investigation uh with regard to what amount of excavation we're going to have to do what amount of uh remediation we're going to have to do and once we get this uh approval we've got the team all kind of lined up at the starting line to start to start that race but I really can't do it now that's why Mr chairman when you said you know you don't want any more delays we don't want any more delays because we have to we have to start that process or the D is going to come down and decide that uh there's uh there are uh issues that haven't been addressed in an appropriate Manner and that's not going to feed back to my client going to feed back to the to the owner and you know that's the last thing we want to have happen Mr Delia do you really believe that you're going to be able to resolve the D issues in 30 days no okay no we're not going to be able to resolve them I'm not going to be able to resolve them okay but I am to be able to get uh lsrp reports to the D start their review process find out what we have to do and not have to do and then once we get the green light from them we can start doing excavation and knowing exactly what we have to do and you know all the details I thought one of the bigger issues was determining how much it was going to cost actually clean the place up we are uh Jeff has been working on that since the day he signed the contract and we we have some parameters uh as I'm standing here I don't remember what they were but we have some parameters in that regard and uh uh there is also some grant money there's this is above my pay grade by the way there there's grants and other things that you can do to get this stuff done one of the grants they just increased by like 20% or something which is to our advantage uh but by the way not to be uh sarcastic uh the D doesn't do anything in 30 days I don't know if you have any experience with it they don't do anything in 30 days that's true so Mr deia thank you Mr bre any other questions from I do staff okay so I'm looking at this is you have to remember is that as a zoning officer I put him in violation for running the business that's why you're here so with that said is that I do see activity out there this is this man's livelihood if he has cut back or ceased which one is it is he cut back that means he's still running the business is it if it ceased then where is his livelihood coming from somewhere else I think he let me get him to clarify that I I think he did say both uh it sounded like you said he ceased operation but he's still doing some warehousing stuff Jeff come on out you want to put them under oath please testimony [Music] I I do the question I have is that I still see activity out there if it's only for storage and this is your livelihood Jeff is that where are you doing the repairs of the material in order for your business the uh I I I own quite a bit of real estate in Pennsylvania okay um and most of my assets from equipment standpoint or here um I do have uh facilities in Pennsylvania but uh the activity you might be seeing uh is grab and go type stuff uh I I haven't sold actual I've done service work those types of things but very very very little equipment is coming out of that property until uh this is all resolved it's very difficult to operate a business uh I want to be a a legitimate business um where uh I can actually advertise accordingly and this is not the way to do it so I I pretty much turned the turned the tide and and focusing on on improving my real estate holdings in Pennsylvania and just focusing on on that uh which which is generating very good income it's just this property not in my wildest dreams I would thought it was going to take this long for it to all happen um but hopefully I answered your question you did so the question remains then is that if this can only if you're you're if you're surviving now your business and you're fortunate enough to have all these other things why is this this particular site then just going to be used for storage or is it going to be in full swing and I guess I'm a little confused as to why your business is still intact and mainly somewhere else and now we're just using this for storage well the my um when I'm comfortable with the the situation here and the only way I'm going to be uncomfortable with it is when the I get all my approvals um I I just feel like I've been working in in the uh in the shadows and I just feel that it's just it's not a way to do business um but answer your question uh the equipment business is a very uh uh it it's got me where I where that's where all my real estate came from it's uh that's where I crued all my real estate was because of the uh of the equipment business I'm I'm excited to get back into the business uh but um it it is a very small footprint it's it's not huge and I want to be and I want to be that to answer your question regards site location I love the site I love the upside to the site I like the uh um uh the local I like the the qu of it I I wanted to I want to be more of a Down Down uh I don't I used to be in a 35,000ft warehouse I don't want to ever be in that situation again so to answer your question small scale um and just focus on you know what uh I'm an expert on okay that's that pretty much answers my question because I I know I've seen activity there I just wanted to understand where this was at so so what is it that is actually still occurring I didn't quite um I I'm still doing service work uh I'm is repairing restaurant you are doing some of the manufacturing yes and I manufacturing I just want TOS code the we condition would really be considered if you're looking at it that way I have no problem there's no assembly line there's no not but most of that and welding and I'm doing I'm doing very little at the at the at the warehouse facility but I do have Parts there that I do take uh to service work in the field it's not there I'm not taking a piece of equipment and repairing it at that facility I haven't done I haven't done it since from day one most of the stuff is remote but you are doing some reconditioning of things I haven't done any reconditioning for about 6 months all right I thought you just let off by saying you are doing some reconditioning I'm doing sales I'm not sales calls I'm sorry uh I'm doing service work in the facility no no remote oh so you're doing outall yes housed from here yes so the work's actually occurring on other site yes and then what else is what else occur uh I'm not sure of the I'm I'm going in and out of the warehouse occasionally but it's not uh uh something I'm it's never a scheduled situation um and this just sort of follows up because obviously and I know that you had said he didn't start operating there you know once he received the Ence he started operating there properly I think he used it I I believe use at that point was was pered and uh I'm the board approved the use variant subject subject to the site plan subject to site plan being approved which which was not done okay so I just wanted to be clear no argument for me on that it is still continued that um it is without is without those approval and I guess one of the questions that I know we may be able to ask it um tonight but we still don't have a preliminary assessment that something was condition of being provided as part of the use variant it's a requirement for any prary final site plan application in the account we still don't have that something we we've asked for during use are again um mention that so I think it's critical will these items because the board can also determine whether the application is even complete or not correct um because those are check will will we get a preliminary assessment or an environmental impact statement to understand or can you provide detailed information of the status of the lsrp um information for me to answer that right here right now or Mr yeah I don't know that we can I don't know we can yes all the all I can send all the preliminary stuff uh that uh that was performed on the property uh it's pretty much been uh status quo um waiting for this all to happen this is going to be a major major undertaking as soon as the uh the site development or the site the site approval is done major major work so the cleanup I think I don't know if it was Vince or or you Jeff um you would said that you need board approval to do the clean up I don't recall that I mean the the the approvals would I said something that that's not certainly not what I meant okay what I meant was um one of you have in your letter a couple of things about cleaning up the site okay and one of our goals here is to get these approvals so we can clean up the site we talk about at the variant here the ISS The Catch 22 for us there is we spend a lot of money cleaning up the site paint doing the painting that you made reference to doing the uh roof work that you mentioned we do all that and then we don't get an approval of what we've done is improved somebody else's property and another reason why we're anxious to to get this done so these are all from a practical standpoint not from a legal standpoint where we need the approval before we can do them from a practical standpoint it's not it's not feasible I trying to say yeah I explain it about that um so we will get that preliminary environmental assessment information um a couple of the other issues that were deferred um or required by the use varing that we still don't have are truck circulation templates um those will be provided prior to the next meeting um and those other items that were in the resolution yeah oh there's a lot of uh references to stuff that you need in your letter and I we intend to provide with all of them unless we have some reason not to we'll discuss that with you but I don't see any I didn't see any real problem with much of of the stuff you were asking for um is the is the residence occupied currently no no um I think one of you testify that uh the site can't be brought up to residential standards if I'm a real estate developer and I want to build houses in an R2 Zone in order to do that at that site I would have to bring the property up to a residential the de residential standard I'm aware I didn't ask I didn't finish my question oh I'm sorry go ahead um Can the knowing that the residential use is not occupied now can the site be reoccupied by a res if the site is not brought up to residential standards I will get you the answer to that because I'm not an again environmental stuff is a little over my pay grade but my my gut reaction is it's an an already an existing use uh that's there and has been there and there won't be any additional requirements in order to uh have an occupant take possession of that property but I will get you that answer and move yeah and I think having answer um either from b or an lsrp is critical because I think just from the board standpoint our recommendation is we're here to protect public health safety and Welfare having somebody occupy a site that that is known to have Benzene and other contaminants in it and for that to be reoccupied um contrary to zoning or other environmental regulations I think we're all doing the wrong thing that's probably the most critical element of this entire leg concern that thank you any any other member no we're not necessarily yes any other yes please so I have multi-layers question here so the uh preliminary assessment that you're going to provide to us is that what has already been conducted on the site or is it a new current PA and potentially a site investigation the previous from the it runs with the previous okay so there's not you're not proposing to provide us with anything current nothing current okay um so just to clarify we started actually meeting with you Mr Livingston back in the beginning of 2022 on an informal level and the application was actually submitted March of 202 23 23 so this potentially is is we're running it to almost 4 years now that we've two three years years if we started informally in 2022 no two and two and a half three years okay um well it's been a long time it's a long no no you're not getting any feedb push back on us it's been a long time um so and and yeah the site's been occupied and I appreciate um the sentiment that you know applicant doesn't want to invest any money on anything that was really not required at this point I mean it was discussed and conditioned during the use variants process um we don't expect a lot of that stuff to get done however the site's been being used by the applicant and there's outdoor storage and there's been some changes to the site but that's been okay but there's no expectation from us to have any improvements done uh one of the comments that Scott made was uh there's some outside storage and it doesn't belong there and we're going to we're going to eliminate all the out outdoor storage uh but it doesn't minimize the point you're making uh but we're take we're taking steps to correct that okay and I do appreciate your willingness to postpone tonight because there have been a lot of applications that have not been complete and it's taken a lot of the board's time so I do appreciate that you're going to go back and make sure that everything's addressed and you have a complete application for us so that it's a and I I appreciate that you're considering that because I was very uncomfortable uh and I think I said that from the beginning I'm sort of in this I got to move this forward sure but if I go ahead tonight I mean it's going to be we're going to spend uh 45 minutes on several of Scott's paragraphs and you know with all of us in here trying to figure out what our perspectives are it's it's just gonna it's not productive and I I really do think and I appreciate your sentiment as well yeah I mean in addition to what our engineer and our planner has um provided to you in their review letters a lot of the stuff was discussed and requested during the use variance process so there are things that are not new to the table and presented to you on Friday and Monday there are things that are still incomplete that were discussed the beginning of the year I understand that from from the reports so can you any other goad can you put everything together and tell us what you're going to do between now and next meeting so that we can all understand how this is going to progress yes what we what what what I intend to do is meet with your professionals as quickly as I can to iron out those changes and th those things that I have to do to revise the plan uh to make sure that I've we've done everything we can other than those issues that we have to talk to the board about we may have an issue uh that we think our way is better than he thinks his is but in terms of tighten up the plan putting on the notes that he asked for making sure the notes are consistent with what our understanding is meet with the professionals get all that stuff ironed out submit the new submit the new plan uh in advance of the next meeting uh so that in my opinion we're going to have a much more streamlined hearing that's that's that's my plan so is 30 days a realistic goal 3 days 30 days is that realistic that you got to get back real istic yeah yeah yeah j i you know having read the letter a couple times we thought that was realistic last time we did this and here we are having this conversation again I I when you say last time at the variance correct when we came in for the variance uh we made the application I felt like we were being uh beat up uh uh legitimately and I called timeout and I said uh you made a lot of good points I understand where you're coming from and we said we'll be back at the next meeting uh to answer all these things if we have to submit something more we came back at the next meeting and we had a what in my opinion was a pretty uh efficient uh hearing uh because we had addressed your concerns I intend to do the same thing here so I and again I understand where you're coming from this has been this has been a hate to use the word it's been a slog I mean we're we're trying to we're trying to get there and we have to get there you had question that regards the 30 days yeah um our we have a backlog of applications that um had to postpone which we're planning on November so I don't even know if it's possible to hear this in November so I don't when is the November hearing nove it's Thursday November 7th Thursday yeah it's a Thursday because it's the week of Elections oh oh makes it easier the two of us we're not we'll be comos so we won't be able to things we'll need oxygen for you yes because we have uh it would be Thursday November 7th is the next meeting and then December is Wednesday December 4th okay so I don't know for the same reasons that you want you want this to move forward same reason I do yes um if you could uh and I've asked for this before and I understand you have a procedure with regard to your meetings I would like to be on the December 7 agenda if someone comes in and and uh does what I'm doing right now I mean you had to know that my hearing was going to take two hours or something like that and hopefully it it be closing in on on it then if there was another extra applicant on the list uh they could have been heard I would like to be that in pencil applicant uh so that if somebody opens up I know I Paul I know I told you I had a case in eam many many years ago where they wouldn't put me on the next agenda because there were five major applications in front of me yeah and I Begg them and I cried and I did everything I could and they said all right we're putting you on the agenda but we tell you right now you're not going to be reached all five applications were postponed yeah but there's no way for me to know it and there's no way for for for them to know it I understood what they were saying about I said put me in pencil I'll wait all night if I have to go home at least I tried and I would ask you uh if you can in the interest of all of our interest in getting this done as quickly as possible if it's possible to put us on with the understanding if we're not reached we're going to thank you for putting you us on and we'll go home for that you're talking in reference to the Thursday November 7th yes yes that's where I want to yeah you had said December 7 that's why had said I just asked about D day they that we'll live in INF yes yeah he no I said I I I said something like November like that the month and a different day we have a notice issue depend depending upon which of those stes Mr Kingsbury if if this is carried to the December meeting uh will Mr deia have to Reen notice not a few announce tonight and pass a motion schuling it for that date we have to reti I would may have to re notice that there's some Varian isues that weren noticed on the original notice there are there are according to the planner's letter some bulk variances that have to be considered and and a couple of things there and I talked with Mr kingsberry about this we always when we send out the notices add the language any and all other variances waivers and other conditions that the board may require uh if you have something that's not that uh major I am not sure that the bulk variance that the planner has asked for is necessarily a bulk variance one of the one of the issues I have to talk to about and I told Mr Kingsbury the same thing I mean I want him to be aware that I it might be a waiver condition and not a variance condition so the these are the issues I work out you tell me I got a uh if we announce November 7 the statute provides that I don't have to Ren notice as long as you announce at the meeting when the next hearing is okay uh if you announce today that the meeting is going to be November 7 uh at 6:30 and it turns out you can't reach us on November 7 you can November 7 you can do the same thing without requiring additional notice if you feel that December 7 is is the if it turns out the best we can do is December 7 and I got a notice again I'm going to notice again it's expensive it's timec consuming it's I about you know if the board in their discretion says notice again I'm going to do it well Paula um what what does November look like right now busy very busy this even if agreement is reached on some of the major issues this from experience is easily a two-hour hearing on this site plan could be yeah and I don't see any way that it's going to be jammed in to a November meeting with with that list that you have only if only if I don't know how many applicants there are there if two of them drop out we may have the time that and that's where I'm coming from if it turns out the night before there all these applications are going forward in Full Steam and there is no way I'm going to be reached then at least I tried well let me say one more thing go ahead been on this board for many many many many years decades yes you have yes I have and I know a difficult site plan when I see it yeah and this is a difficult site plan it this is a complicated site plan it's maybe one of the more complicated site plans that I've seen in a couple of decades okay because of all the little problems and issues that have to be resolved Y in totality it's not a big it's not a big development site but when you get down to micromanaging all the issues it is um I don't see how this is going to be handled in a short meeting and frankly I don't see how you're going to get it ready in 30 days that's why I I think that uh this should be put down for December but we mean it in December I have to defer to your discretion Mr chairman uh but um you heard my argument I'm not going to make it again yeah I don't how other members of the board feel but um please speak up if you if you feel totally you feel otherwise totally agree that M micromanaging November would be very very doing the same business all over that's why I asked 30 days was realistic I I just don't yeah I just don't see 30 days Mr de as being realistic but on the other hand uh we got to finish this so December has to be viewed as a serious drop dead uh drop dead date and this board will will will push to make a decision on the site plan either up or down on that day because we just let this as Miss Costco said this has been going on I want that as much as you do really I I got to have a decision on This I Gotta I got to get this done right now so Mr Kingsbury in light of the potential for additional variances that would be needed per the planners uh letter of recommendation that everybody has now talked about um is it prudent to Ren notice this for the December date or can we you think we can simply make the announcement today there are variances involved that we know about now that weren't noticed specifically on the original application and they should be Reen noticed as part of a new notice to be sent out now you look at the planers letter I agree with you that it's really a stretch to think this is all going to be resolved 30 days I don't think so I think de Su is better and he should R and I think also Mr and and know Marty we had raised the question about the impervious coverage I think you're going to require coverage variants as well we had noted a question about that I think after Mr Miller's all got calculation on that so I think you're going to need that one as well so I think it may be Prov I said I'd divide by whatever the board wanted with regard to notice and I will okay one last item your client has a lease he's in control of the property I was over there a couple times in the last two weeks just to see if things change from day to day and uh what struck me was the utter lack of any um shall I say maintenance of the yard there is and it would be very generous to say outside storage uh but there is a outside storage there that uh looks more like a junkyard frankly the grass is not been cut the weeds are high uh the place uh compared to the way the rifs managed it when they were alive and ran that property um looks like an abandoned property so it might be beneficial for your client to clean the place up in the meantime thank you Mr deia I'd like to make a statement as well is that every day I drive past this property four times and it's the zoning official for hesport Township and I take this town extremely to heart and taking pride in making sure that my businesses are maintained well cared for ETC one of the biggest issues as I have right now is that when I drive by this is not to take your client to court I have it it takes a lot for me not to do that because the progression in the past year outside as Mr McKay just stated has slowly grown worse so I would agree with Mr McKay's statement um and as someone who takes extreme pride in her town is that I expect not maybe I expect this to get cleaned up sooner than later because I Have No Reservations the board has no authority over me if I decide to take your client to court right right no no that's and it has literally been on the edge of my pen not to do so so I am asking to please make sure that what Mr McKay said and I said clearly comes to heart we heard you I appreciate that I really and I know I know been working with you has for me has been a pleasure with you um that's mut that's mutual and I and I and I like I don't like what I'm hearing uh but I like being told because I think they're items that could make it easier for the township and also uh enhance the possibility that I get all this approved because of the importance of it to to us and I think to the community as well and what I expect that if this application were to get approved as a preliminary and final site plan what I expect of the client is that this is not going to be an issue for the zoning officer myself or any future one and that the site is not going to look like this on a continuous basis and uh I'm sure Mr Kingsbury is going to put something in the resolution to that effect yes I'm sure as well I would expect him to do that thank you thank you sir all right um can I have a motion to adjourn this matter until December 4th 4 4th 2024 with the condition that we noce yes with the condition that U Mr deia uh properly re notice for that new date so moved second second second roll Mr Bradley yes Miss costc yes Mrs tordy yes Mrs Kelly yes mayor Gilmore yes Mr toochi yes Mrs bajio yes Mr Murphy yes and Mr McKay yes thank you thank you thank you appreciate it all right uh next we'll take the matter of Mr D'Angelo and Miss Carnell case 24-20 fostertown Road 2020 2434 wer Town Road bulk variant good evening sir want to identify yourself and uh then be sworn by Michael D'Angelo sir you raise your right hand you swear I do so Mr D'Angelo you have a house and um I guess you're going to raise it and build a new house no we're going to do demolition on the house remove the remove the existing houses there build a new house okay how how old is that old house I think it was ear early 1900s yeah quite a beautiful house it is it is and my my in-laws used to be my in-laws property and uh they did a great job with it but it has many many issues all right so tell us what you want to do when I knock the house down build a new house in the basically in the same location the ordinance says 125 ft setback and the new property the new house is going to be a 77 77.5 foot2 foot setback to what's the what's the old house right now about about the same about the same yes all right so the the new house is going to be roughly on the same set back print as the old house yes okay this is the front the existing front yard is 41 ft is the existing existing house now 41 ft from from the road 41 ft 41 ft so the new property is going the new house is going to be 77 ft considerably further back yes okay and then in addition um you have a request for uh an additional out building or garage to be built there's there's an existing three-car garage that's semi-attached to the to the house now to the existing house now that we don't want a Dem demolition we don't want we want we want to save that cuz that was built in 2011 when they did an addition on the property and we we don't want to remove that cuz we want to save that for additional storage for the property we we have like Farm stuff we want to do and some Woodwork and stuff we we're looking to accomplish there and is there yet uh is there another garage or or out building that you want there's an existing Barn it's own the property also all right so it just you're keeping the old barn you're keeping the old three-car garage you're demoing the house correct and building a new house and that's the scope of the construction correct the new house is going to have a three-car garage attached to it also okay but it's but it's going to be integral to the house itself it will be a separate garage correct correct the new the new house will have the garage is ATT a part part of the house but the existing three car garage that's there now it's going to be separate from the the new house I I understand I understand um you your plant uh show other houses in that same stretch of foster Town Road and provide setbacks of those other houses is that correct [Applause] um do we need to Mark these plans as an exhibit Mr Kingsbury they're part of the application should we mark them as a separate exhibit say that again should we mark this um this these these plans that he submitted for for the approvals as a separate exhibit uh they're obviously submitted to us as part of the application does so I don't think we need to mark them as a separate exhibit okay we can mark on A1 and A2 oh all right it's two pages so we'll mark it we'll do that we'll mark it A1 being the first page and A2 being the second page and I wanted to direct your attention uh to the second page which shows all the houses within a distance of your house on Foster Town Road um and what is that distance approximately I mean you live there from the corner up to uh lot 8.06 is how far what what lot did you say last lot on your plan 8.06 down here it's all the way to the left okay you're asking for the distance yeah approximate ballpark to me it's got to be well over 1,000 ft guessing more than a quarter of a mile you you agree 1600t roughly so about a quarter of a mile we say yeah all right and and uh your plan uh accurately represents the setbacks on the buildings in that quarter mile stretch yeah it was there are numerous right and there are numerous buildings that are set back uh less than the than the code mandated setb yes now on page two it shows a setback of 77.2 Ft yeah that's for the proposed bu okay proposed that's where you're going correct okay thank you like you said the current property is 41 40 roughly from 41.2 so this is going to be set back further correct right still less than 125 requiring and in that uh the footprint on exhibit exhibit uh A2 uh the garage is going to be within that proposed building fo footprint the new garage correct correct okay where's it going to be on the side on the side on the um if you're fac if you're looking at the draw the plan now it'll be on the right hand side of that that bu the proposed building okay the right hand side right hand side as you fa as you face the proposed building it'll be on the right correct the doors would load on the right correct okay is the garage the separate garage at least 10 ft from the house house it's going to be 18 ft okay perfect and I know you're that far away from the pool as well that's there correct yeah and the whole reason for this is because if we go further back with with with the with the new house right it's going to encroach upon the pool and then we also have the the septic and the discharge for the septic we're going to encroach upon that which they have um I've already dealt with the demo permit for this house and the Bron County Health Department has okayed the location of this house where the well and septics still are okay so you're you're constrained on the new house by the existence of a pool out back is that what I'm hearing the pool the pool need existing septic yes and and the uh this house is on septic doesn't have sewer correct you know that so are you also constrained by the SE the existing septic field correct okay and so the placement of the house sort of dictated by that correct Do you have a well or are you on water there is a well yes all right um let me ask the professionals particularly Scott or planner any any questions uh comments observations about this no not really this is pretty simple it's you know as they testified it's it's actually an increase 41.2 put step back and they increasing that by probably 80% or so up to 77.2 so it is much closer to compant I think the the second sheet does demonstrate that there is a a similar pattern prevailing within the neighborhood and they've also given some testimony that a that a hardship would really exist if uh full compliance with the setback uh had to be comp with right thank you any any uh comments by our engineer um questions comments from the board to the applicant before I turn it over to the public comment so the variance then you're applying for if I'm correct is has to do with setbacks and the bulk variances for the additional garages that's my understanding yes yeah so I think for the garages it is to acknowledge that there is an existing three car garage on the site and the propos will Al have an internal three car garage right cuz we don't allow more than a three car right for a total car capacity of six where a maximum of three is pered did I say it right yes sounds like it I'll never say it again and the setback variant yes all right let me open this up to the members of the public there's a few people sitting in the audience anyone have any comments that they wish to make questions that they wish to ask on this application if so raise your hand and come on up I'm seeing No Hands raised so I'll close the public session uh for people here online no we have anything nothing no all right we'll close the public session for both online and remote there is no Co on this house because it's a replacement house uh oh that's a good that's a that's a good good point but this is not a new dwelling it replaces an old one corre anytime that the replacement all right unless they want to make a donation yeah pass all right um Mr Kingsbury uh we missed anything on this or can we take a vote on the two variances that have been outlined by the motion to approve the requested setbacks and two garages toing six days I have a motion some second you have this poll roll call Mayor Gilmore yes Mrs tordy yes Mr Bradley yes Mrs Kelly Mrs Kelly yes sorry Mr draoi yes Mrs badel yes Mr Murphy yes Mr M yes all right they're all set thank you so much thank you good luck D Angelo just to remind you too that you can't start building you can start demoing right um M Costco will'll be sending that to the applicant miss tyer the other asking for no I got to have that you can submit it for review I just won't release it okay you're welcome all right um next matter on the agenda are approval of minutes for the September 4 2024 meeting uh these are pretty hefty minutes yeah um I didn't what that was the court stenographer that was here for that one case yes and I did not want to mess with any of her stuff so I left it as it was just that was the transcript of the of the proceedings oh that was their transcript yes and that was their stenographer yes oh so she gave it to you and shared it with you nice yes okay yeah and that would be a certified stenographic record so yeah perfectly acceptable to take it at face value um motion to approve minutes from uh the last meeting I make a motion that we approve and file minutes from the last meeting second second Mr Bradley roll call Mrs Kelly yes Mr Bradley yes Mrs Tori yes mayor Gilmore yes Mr chochi yes Mr Murphy yes Miss Costco yes and Mr McKay yes so we have two resolutions uh 20 24-24 the first one which is 11a on our agenda uh Randolph senior Estates um I have a motion to accept that uh and accept and approve the resolution as drafted some moved second May got the I'm sorry neither one of you can vote on that resolution that was the use variant right I'll make a motion that we approve that answer second second okay um Mrs Kelly yes Mr Murphy yes Mr Bradley yes Mr chochi yes Miss Costco yes and Mr mck yes all right the second resolution is the parara resolution denying the minor subdivision approval this say resolution 2024 d23 can I have a motion on that let me explain quickly on this there was a motion to approve was Den the people who voted no on the motion are they eligible V do you have the list of the no the no are it should be a Mrs Cy Mr Bradley Mrs Kelly mayor Gilmore Mr chochi Mr Murphy and Mr MC right second so a motion to approve the denial as maybe to be and you're voting not on the application you're voting on the resolution resolution whether or not the resolution accurate reflects the decision so I have a motion by Mr Bradley second it's mayor Gilmore mayor Mr bradle yes mayor Gilmore yes Mrs Tori yes Mrs Kelly yes Mr chochi yes Mr Murphy yes and Mr mck yes so we have some correspondence uh any member want to look at any piece of Correspondence in particular otherwise uh I'd like a motion to uh receive and file I'll make a motion that we receive and file the correspondence I second I'll T check it okay can I ask Mr Miller where exactly are the hesport Family Apartments it's on Creek roek Department Creek Ro okay all right so we have a motion and a second roll call all in favor all in favor opposed hearing none motion passes all right uh any um any professional comments I do good when they have some of these applications on first application we have they have they asking for uh design waivers and things a whole list of those um it's they right to ask for those things and we put in our letter saying that this is what's required and they're asking for a waiver of it um I don't know if the board wants me to comment on that and say you know I don't know if I want to recommend Flor or not or give you some um reason to discuss the thing before you decide to give them a waver or not give them the waiver and uh come in with uh uh some kind of uh thing because right now it's just laid in your lap and you got to make a decision and I don't know if uh it's as clear as it could be for Marty are are you talking about uh the hypothetical failure of a u of an applicant to put on their site plan um compliance with the various checklists checkbox items well on the on the checklist like one of the checklist is is that uh they want a waiver of uh impervious coverage right and uh so um yeah I mean the board says they come up and they'll say uh whatever their reason why they want to have the impervious coverage um I don't have the opportunity until all the way at the end to say uh I don't agree with that particularly like on this per this case right now they have they've never had uh permits for all of the stuff so they're assuming that what they got on the land right now is already okay or permitted because it's been there for 30 years right it's not necessarily true because you different particularly with with to run off there's run off off off of that property all the time that it always has been I don't remember having any real complaints about it but they're asking for a complete waiver on it and they're not not uh obligated to do anything well for example on the other application that we that we dealt with earlier tonight your letter did go into detail about the non-compliance with the check box items including the drainage that you've mentioned and I for one a member of the board found it extremely helpful to have that information and I for one would hope that you would uh on a uh on an application that that merited a large one at least do that in every case uh now maybe there's a maybe there's a a small variance request like the one the second one we had where that's really not necessarily needed uh to write a lengthy letter but it was very helpful when it came to the rif property yeah there's a whole now we're going to straighten out a lot of these waivers that they're asking for when we have this meeting before they they make the changes on the plan uh one of the things that uh depending on the the the C the coverage and how we with the coverage um they don't have to do storm we management so they don't have to do any detention basins or holding facilities or anything else like that what I would recommend is is that they at least take care of water quality which is not part of the storm water management PL water quality takes care of the smaller storms up to two or three years I think a threee storm and we talking about 2 3 in of rain if they take care of 2 or 3 in of rain that's most of the rains that we ever have and then they they've already addressed that if you get a downpour happens everywhere and so then you know it's it's a uh it's a lesser occurrence yeah well I don't want to get into the specifics of of anybody's application because we're talking hypotheticals here but um hypothetically I think the kind of uh detailed letter addressing the check box requirements or the app or the applicant's failure to meet them if that's the case is is is helpful and I would like to see it in your letters and I want to ask the board members if if they're in agreement or any comments on that I agree with are you also indicating that you would like the ability to speak up like your shrinking violent partner beside you maybe I should have asked permission no no but you interject when that when you see a a real reason to do so which is I think is important for the board I agree totally I have no problem with that so I think you got the green light one you okay and for the board there's there's really just Su for newer board members there's two kinds of waivers one is a submission one is hey you're applying for a site plan you need to give us a preliminary assessment you need to give us a traffic study you need to give us a site plan showing all these different things so the board gets to say no we want those things or we're okay not having it this is an existing like you know we're okay not having those things submitted to us and the second kind of those are designed waivers and that's where maybe the whole whole site is supposed to be curved but they only want to curve part of it because it's kind of a rural neighborhood each one of those you guys get to ask Marty ask me ask the applicant will justify what why should you submit this or why don't you want a curve and if you think should that curve you deny the waiver and make make that curve or whatever that issue is on whatever application those are they're sort of two separate types of waivers that we get all right satisfied Morty you got you have the green light to to do what you did with uh with the other application tonight I think it's it's very helpful to the board members to do that and it also I found it this afternoon I was going through that it enables you me to cross reference your comments with planner's comments so you know sometimes you cover the same thing but you approach it from a different direction and then you know you can know that your paragraph three is is Scott's paragraph 23 or whatever it might be and it it it makes it easier to make sure we cover everything too so uh any other professional comments any board comments I have one I'd like to congratulate Mr McKay and Mr Chief yes their positions and also to welcome our new uh board members Mr Murphy and Mr M yeah welcome to I think I think all the board members would uh would join in that yes welcome welcome and congratulations be ready you're going to get like a million dollar paycheck at the end of every year oh yeah and when we go late you get overtime cash please all right Monopoly money uh there are a few members of the public out there are there any uh general public comments people having a comment or question if you come up and and ask if not yes on up my name is Dr rer and um the past 15 months I got married had a kid bought a house got a new job and a new car I also bought this house on Deacon it's two domes that sit on top of one another um it's 822 Deacon and um I'm here just introduce myself um we've been there about 6 months now and I was wondering does anyone here know who built that house or why because it's it's 822 Deacon yeah and it's um it's like two domes that are connected in the center I'll bet you Kathy has some knowledge about that so you could do an Opa request stands for open public records act and um I'm in the Construction office okay as well is that um you can um what do you call it send that to the clerk's office they will give that to me and then I will pull the file on that and you can come in and sit and review it and take a look at everything gotcha because it's a very interesting house and I was just wondering if anyone had any history on it um additionally um I do have a doctorate in agriculture but I've since transitioned to as a and I heard this gentleman talk about it um I am a professional grant writer so my father always told me to always help the community that you're in so if anyone ever needs any help writing or submitting grants for anything you let me know what's your phone number that's why I waited till again why don't why don't why don't we turn you why don't we suggest that you see Paul see you see me for the sounds good um yeah I currently have a great track record with federal and state funding so um I asked my question first to be selfish but at the same time um please let me know if anyone needs any assistance with anything that file hit that file I can give you my card if you want that would be great yeah please so thank you thank you thank you nice nice to see you do all right um if there's no other issues uh motion to adjourn would be in order I just one private note I I got a very nice phone call two weeks ago I'm sure many of us did for Mr Co frer Thanking us Thanking us thank him I just thought it was very nice of him to reach out to as many of us as he could and just say thanks I did get a call from him as well personal call and it's very kind of him and very thoughtful and uh you know he's kind of a little bit of a legend and he'll go down as a legend and that's yes that's good and maybe someday he'll get his Mobility back and yeah maybe come back on the board who knows be great thank you all right uh motion to adjourn all right we're Jour before 8 yeah oh yeah I mean I guess by the way comment yeah no sleeping on the job a drinking comment was s with low to you