##VIDEO ID:va5i5zrsHWI## have your attention please walk me out to my car after this so it's um 6 o00 we'll bring this uh meeting to order um since I came in the back way since this is a uh there are seats up front there's seats on the side um anyone who needs a place to sit down um so this is a a meeting of the board of Selectmen uh just to remind everyone it is being recorded by area 58 it's also being live streamed on YouTube uh in case you want to tell your friends at home to watch it they can uh thank you all for coming tonight in in case anyone was confused at on any level we're not going to vote on anything tonight what tonight's the purpose of tonight's meeting is informational and it's information two-way informational so uh from the uh Board of Selectmen and the zoning Board of uh uh the bylaw Review Committee uh we will uh provide for you what the rule what the 3A uh MBTA housing issue is and a proposed solution um and we'll also uh expect and ask for any questions and comments you folks might have on that score there's a signup sheet there's two signup sheets working their way through the crowd one is up here and there's another one uh somewhere else I'll collect those towards the end of the presentation which should take maybe 20 minutes or a half hour and I'm going to uh use those signup sheets as the uh menu for people to uh talk so I'm just going to go start at the top and work my way down if you do have a question and you're AR on the signup sheet uh we won't get to you until the end if you're on the signup sheet I guarantee you we will ask you what the comments and questions you might have and I'm going to do it like one right after the other all right so uh just so uh as an introduction uh we have here tonight the uh the board of Selectmen Mr Pratt Mr seelig myself John Bruno uh to my left is uh Jason De roer from the old colony planning Council he's going to uh he's helped us with some of the uh presentation material uh Mr Hadad is Our Town Administrator Mr huum uh to his left is a Town Council and on the other side here we're lucky tonight to have uh both uh Senator Mike Brady and off also uh representative kathle latra um again the purpose of tonight's uh meeting is as a public discussion it's not when we won't be voting on anything you will get the chance to vote in December when we have our special town meeting but for tonight it's m merely a matter of discussing what is going to be on the ballot um we'll provide information listen to input and questions um as I mentioned before uh the way this procedure is going to work I'm going to just give you a short introduction as to what we are uh the circumstance and what our proposed solution is um we have some comments from both uh Senator Brady and representative latra uh and then Jason der roer will go through a slide presentation uh that will explain in better detail the uh MBTA Community zoning requirements and and and also show you the maps and all for what we're proposing uh as far as a solution we'll have questions and answers and again I just ask you to hold on to your questions until the end so that we can get through the uh presentation first and get the information from this side out before we start um uh going in different directions so the uh uh what what we're here to deal with is um a statute a statute passed a couple of years ago by the the legislature um if you see the signs it says 3A it's really Mass General La chapter 40 a section 3A uh and it is a uh we'll be calling it The MBTA housing law the housing statute uh requires towns that are um identified as MBTA communities which Halifax is uh to uh vote before the end of this year before the end of December which is why we have to have that special to meeting on um uh uh zoning a parcel of property within a certain distance of the train station approximately a half a mile uh that is uh going to have a multi family or multif family multi-unit uh housing as a matter of right meaning if someone owns that property they don't have to get any special permits or anything to uh put in multif family housing um the statute which probably everyone has heard about and may not understand entirely but uh also has um uh penalties to it uh which you will hear about uh in terms of uh the restriction on Grant uh that can come from the state um there's also some press that's right now in the courts with the attorney General trying to uh Force communities to uh either adopt such a zoning uh uh area or uh to have someone do it for them so that's that those that's the circumstance that we're faced with the zoning bylaw oh I got to introduce I'm sorry the zoning bylaw Review Committee uh Jerry Joy uh Frank uh Johnson Jim Walters are up front uh they've been working with myself about a year or so to try to uh figure out the um figure out the issue and also to uh come up with whatever our options might be um and so we have come up with an option and it's really two options you can either uh vote no on what we're going to propose uh in which case we have to deal with the State uh and and their uh proposed penalties uh or uh we have an option that we think is is going to satisfy that we know will satisfy the state since we have preliminary approval uh and also will have as least effect as possible on Halifax and our proposed solution uh will be to uh create a overlay zoning District in uh the area of the Twin Lakes condominium development basically the Twin Lakes condominium development uh which has been in existence for over 40 years uh is a multifam multi-unit development it already is that uh the zoning District that we're proposing will Encompass most all of Twin Lakes and also uh a parcel of property between Twin Lakes and the railroad track which is uh referred to as the garden company land we think that the uh Twin Lakes property uh is pretty much already developed so it's not like there can be anything else to go in there and then the uh you'll see on the map that the uh zoning I mean the garden property has a kind of limited area where you can put anything we've already sent this to the housing uh group that will ultimately have to uh agree with our proposal uh they've already given us a preliminary approval on it so our it's our view that uh if regardless of how you feel about the statute itself whether you think it's a good idea or a bad idea what we can do in Halifax given our circumstance an uh is change the zoning in an area and basically have it reflect what is already there uh and uh we're in compliance so that's what our proposal will be we were told that was conservation when I bought it ma'am ma'am ma'am ma'am ma'am ma'am ma'am I I asked you please what we're trying to do here is have a civil discussion okay on a business-like level people yelling from the audience aren't doing that so would you please not do that if you want to make a comment get your name on the sign up sheet and you will definitely be called on or you can wait until that's all done all right so it it doesn't help to inter to uh interrupt and move move in the wrong directions here all right so with that being said um we'll turn ourselves to uh Senator Brady and uh representative latra and they were going to just offer us a few comments on uh on this proposal thank you Mr my name is Mike Brady I've represented the town of Halifax for several years along with representative Cath latra and uh my main mission tonight is to listen to the residents it's up to you the residents to decide which direction you want to go in and um again I'm here to listen to your input and concerns and this law was put in under the baker Administration and it was supported by the legislature back several years ago and there's about 60 commity that have gone forward and supported this and there's several other communities that are still weighing out the the pros and cons on the whole matter so uh but my main thing tonight is to listen to the residents I want to thank you all for showing up tonight yes hi good evening everyone I'm Kathy latar I'm here with Senator Brady as well but I do want to thank um Jason from ocpc and the select board and your Town Administrator for the several meetings that we've had to get tonight together um and again we're here we're not here to influence we're not here to give you you know any advice we're just here to get the information for you so when you do vote you can vote with all the information thank you okay with that we we we have a slide presentation that will explain in a little bit better detail than my summary uh exactly what uh the uh zoning require uh MBTA Community zoning requirements are and also what our uh proposed resolution is Jason oh you probably need this thank you yes I'll need the microphone I've been told to have an Irish whisper um so I might be able to get to the back of the room but the microphone probably helps for the folks who are streaming it online so um good evening my name is Jason der roer and I am the senior planner for housing and public engagement at Old Colony planning Council our goal for this evening um which has been said a couple of times is really to develop the shared understanding and provide information on what the NBTA community's like law is and how it applies to Halifax I might interchange or switch between MBTA communities and 3A it means the same thing um just so you all know when I'm going through it what I'm referring to so in the hopes of having a productive and fruitful dialogue um want to start off by saying what's in scope for the meeting and what we're here to sort of like talk about um it's the definition of the 3A law what it is um discussion of the specific 3A District um for Halifax and what the process is um moving forward um out of scope for for this evening is debating whether Halifax should comply with the law again this is just an information session a conversation um you all will have um the opportunity to express if this is something that you support or not at the special town meeting and so we want to make sure that we're here um having a civil discourse around what it is what it's not um and what the potential impacts will be for Halifax um so just uh a quick agenda for for this evening just so you know um what we're going to be covering uh first will be the overview of MBTA communities or the 3A zoning requirements um reviewing Halifax's specific uh zoning district for 3A uh looking at Halifax some of the the data some of the um metrics um and then a bulk of the conversation will be around questions and discussion so for anyone who doesn't know old Cony planning Council or have not had the pleasure to meet um as of yet uh Old Colony planning council ocpc is a public agency tasked with supporting 17 municipalities within the old colony region plus six additional Area Agency on Aging uh communities uh we assist with housing Economic Development Transportation Planning comprehensive planning environment and sustainability planning GIS mapping and more I also want to reiterate um that ocpc did not write the law or the regulations for 3A um we're just helping MBTA communities in our region um in this case Halifax find ways that they can reach compliance which the town is um as of right now and get you to a point where you can vote on it at your special town meeting um so I'm sure you all know where you are um but on this is sort of like Halifax is highlighted um which you know as you can see Halifax sits amongst many other communities that are going through the same thing that you're going through right now um these so uh nearly 80 communities out of the 177 that are covered by the law have already rezoned to comply with it which is about 45% of the the the municipal ities that are required to um within the ocpc region Abington Bridgewater Easton Pembrook Plymouth ston and Whitman have complied there's another five um including Halifax that have it on their warrants for special town meeting um for the fall uh there's a few basic requirements um for Halifax under the the state guidelines first um uh the town will zone for multif family as of right um which approximately 15 units per acre uh within a half mile of a Commuter Rail station subway station Ferry Terminal or bus station where possible uh for Halifax 40% um is required to be within a half mile of the commuter rail station since you are a commuter rail Community uh the zoning District must be of reasonable size and there will be no age restrictions or limits on unit sizes number or size of bedrooms or number of occupants so the the the the the law is built around um this thing called Unit capacity um and I'm going to explain what that is um however one common misconception about the MBTA communities law and the unit capacity is this is not a housing production Target it's only a zoning exercise the town does not have to produce units it just has to Zone Zone to allow housing production now I know the conversation is going to be if you zone for it development will come and that's certainly the case in certain communities however it might not be the case in others and when we go over where the the zoning district is for Halifax there's a lot of constraints um with where the Zone will be that will limit the potential development that could come from from that zoning parcel but um I just wanted to flag that right up front um so if you can see the the tables underneath um the way that the state came up with their numbers um was a little bit of a a math problem um so to speak so the 750 units that you might have heard the the unit requirement comes from your 2020 housing units um within the census so all the housing units in in Halifax that there are 3,17 of them um 750 is 24% of those 2020 housing units so that's really how it you know came up with the number um a majority of the communities within the ocpc region um have 750 as their target with the exception of Brockton as a city um has to do 21100 I think and Whitman where I live um has to do 868 fli my paper um so just a couple of things that are important to note first the law does not require that multif family housing be built uh the law only requires towns to zone for multif family housing so that it can be built in select areas it does not matter what has or will be built all that matters is the underlying zoning if anything gets built the actual density may be less than 15 units per acre um just because of constraints and we'll talk about that in a little bit 3A is is not an affordable housing law either there's a lot of confusion I think sometimes between 3A or MBTA communities and 40b um both are housing policies housing legislation but they seek to do very different things one is zoning only 40b as you know is an affordable housing specifically affordable housing um legislation uh the law does not require communities to pay for any infrastructure to support housing develop um this will be said again a little bit later but if you zone for the housing you do not have to do any upgrades to your infrastructure if your infrastructure does not support 200 units you're not going to be able to get those 200 units because the infrastructure doesn't support it um talk about that a little bit later again and then the law does not override the Massachusetts uh Wetlands protection act or title V which is the septic so I want to spend a little time talking about what this 15 units per acre look like um because gross density and thinking about 15 units per acre can be an abstract concept for many people um I will tell you before I got into planning gross density um minimum lot sizes lot cover like all of these things didn't make sense to me either um but it takes some time to understand how these sort of things come together and and what they look like um so really trying to to boil this down into real life examples in terms of like what 15 units per acre actually looks like so this is a sketch of um actually 17 units per acre so as you can see there's a lot of um duplexes um there's an internal Courtyard with with parking some trees um the next slide shows you know additional um 15 units per acre uh with parking on street some commercial space uh and various uh densities uh although none of them are what you think of in terms of like Urban Development but um maybe somewhat denser than what you're used to in somewhat of a Suburban or or rural environment um this is an image of um uh Burl Street in in Swampscott this is 15 units per acre um a lot of these are duplexes some are larger single families this is 15 uh Florida Street in Dorchester um similar sort of uh scale similar size um very mature Street trees uh there with a um median and then Electric Avenue in Summerville um again um some triple Deckers some duplexes now I will say that Somerville swamp Scott and Dorchester are not Halifax however um the the scale of development and the scale of buildings are not out of scale with some neighborhoods in in um Halifax um today and and I'll show you um particularly where so I did bring a laser pointer so I could try to point this out um with the monitors in front of me doesn't do me any good um but this is data that comes from the assessors um and what it shows is if you can see it um is gross density across Halifax so and I can if anyone signs up and you want this data I can certainly send it to you um but you will see particularly around um the uh the mon pona Pond area there are units there currently single family homes there currently that have a gross density of 15 units per acre or higher because you have smaller lot sizes and somewhat midsize to larger homes it ends up in the uh aggregate to zone out to more than 15 units per acre in in some areas um that's a zoomed in map if you can see the darker orange areas are even red that's 15 units to 20 units per acre so just to show you in terms of scale um this is a a home on Plymouth Street it's a three family it has three units it's partiel acreage the the acreage that this home sits on is 0.28 its unit per acre parcel density is 10.61 uh this is 204 twins Lake Drive it's 102 units the parcel acreage is 14.86 the overall units per acre or parcel density is 6.86 so the parcel unit size the units per acre within more homes on larger uh sort of parcels is less than a three family uh whereas this one here here is six Bow Street it's a single family there's one residential unit uh the parcel acreage or the acreage that it sits on is 06 Acres so it's parcel density or units per acre ends up being 17.8 to just to sort of put into perspective and size and again after tonight's uh conversation I can C I don't mind sticking around and talking to folks and sort of like how this how this works so we're in Halifax are we talking about so for here I'm going to pass it off to Cody thank you Jason before before Cody does that uh there is a signup sheet uh one of them's up here one of them's floating around if you would please know if you know you want to say something please put your name on the signup sheet and I will go down the sign up sheet for uh wri in order thank you there's ALS there's also seats up front there are empty seats guys if you don't want to stand in the back if you want to come in and see and hear better there's seats up here very good thank you thank you all for coming out I'll reiterate what Jason had said um you know all this information will be available online after the meeting uh there's printouts of this and if there's any questions you know we have a diverse group on the panel up here but if for some reason we do not have an answer to your question we will make sure we follow up with you after the meeting so we can provide that for you so Jason's done a nice job of providing what the NBTA zoning law is on a general level what it looks like like uh density but I think really what's important here and why you're all here is what are we talking about in Halifax so you'll see the area highlighted in yellow this is the proposed uh overlay District that we're discussing for Halifax and will be on the Warren in December uh it's primarily it's made up of four Parcels I'll show a few more pictures that uh might be a little bit easier to understand but four Parcels three of them are Twin Lakes and one of them is like Mr Bruno said the former house ax Garden company uh this is a little bit of a better image it's the satellite image so again those four Parcels uh the acreage is there it's about 13 acres for the first parcel 25 for the next 109.0 4 and those are the three that are made up of Twin Lakes and that 47 and 3/4 approximately is that Halifax Garden company and uh one thing that's really important and I want to highlight again is it's not about what gets built that would make us comply with this law is what the compliance is what we zon for and so uh questions have come up uh I've heard from residents well a lot of it's wet you know how can you build on that could this if if this passes could it result in um over overriding the wetlands protection act or Title 5 no th those things does do not change zoning does not change that doesn't matter what zoning any municipality changes you cannot override the wetlands protection act or uh Title 5 so this shows the wetlands of those Parcels what you'll notice is uh as far as the Twin Lakes Parcels most of the developable land where there's not wetlands have already developed which means there can be no further development there there is some potentially developable land developable land uh in the northern portion where that Halifax Garden company is and that would be anything that's not highlighted in any of the um colors there so now the proposed bylaw they are print outs in the back of the room are which is the actual bylaw not the mapping uh and just to go over what that looks like it's multif family housing as of right uh I already mentioned it must comply with other bylaws and code uh as of right means it would go through a site plan review through the planning board but no sort of special permit uh or variance through the zoning board of appeals would be required uh one portion that uh the zoning BYO Review Committee has recommended is and the state allows is anything uh any development with 10 or more units that 10% of those units are considered affordable which would require a deed restriction um and and it would be affordable in perpetuity uh in addition in this bylaw there would be the uh possibility of mixed use development so maybe some commercial space on the first floor of the uh of the developments again not a requirement but it's something that could happen a good example of this is if you're familiar with uh Hansen and the MBTA station over there there's there's been uh a couple of new uh housing projects going on and on the first floor there is some mixed use development there's a coffee shop a hair salon so something like that could hypothetically apply here um and that is limited to retail space personal services a restaurant a cafe um Office Professional Medical Dental artist Studios no more than 5,000 square ft and now dimensional standards for this bylaw so uh it's not just a car launch they there would be a minimum lot size of 20 ,000 sare ft uh maximum uh height of 2.5 stories um the would be two spaces per unit for the parking uh setbacks there would be a minimum of 30 ft for the front 20 ft for the sides and rear and then for every dwelling unit that's built there would have to be 10,000 square ft on that lot so if someone were to come in and build a 15 unit uh building right they would have to have 150,000 square feet uh which is you know approximately uh let's say 40 about 40,000 yeah so three acres um maximum building coverage on the lot would be 25% and then they have to keep at least 40% of the land as open space and then I will turn it back over to Jason for some more just general MBTA zoning so when Cody showed you the the these slides in terms of like where the district is sort of like 10,000 ft View this is the land however most of it is excluded because it has restrictions um or it's Wetland or um there's other sorts of constraints that would allow full for development I think what Halifax is trying to do with this MBTA zoning district is first comply with sort of state requirements um but also because it is Twin Lake um which is already multif family housing which exists as non-conforming um because Halifax doesn't have multif family zoning um you are con you are legalizing a non-conforming use by sort of putting this overlay over um Twin Lakes and you're getting sort of a what's I'm looking for um credit for having the these units within that zoning District already with how having to build a single single unit um so looking at the compliance deadlines um since Halifax is a commuter rail Community um there's 71 of them out of the 177 compliance deadline is uh 1231 2024 um within the ocpc region um we have two adjacent small towns um West Bridgewater in Plimpton um so they have until the end of next year 2025 um to uh work out their process uh I only have a couple more slides and then we'll open it up for conversation so please bear with me um so so we we've heard and we've you know we've all heard about what happens if communities do not comply with the requirements that have been set up by the state um if at any point the state determines that an NBTA Community is not in compliance that Community will not be eligible for funds from all of those sort of funds that are listed on the side of that slide are the grants that are at risk for for non-compliance um however I do want to say or preface this by saying that it's all discretionary funding and discretionary grants so there are things that are not listed on this slide that could also [Music] be not provided if non-compliance um and what that means is that all all discretionary grants all discretionary funding goes in front of the governor's office for Signature uh that includes Public Safety grants that includes COA funding or certain COA funding and that also uh includes Library funding and so just because it's not on this list at this current point in time doesn't mean that there couldn't be something else uh that's withheld or or not funded just because we don't have that information yet so how has Halifax used these grants in the past not going to read all of these um there's uh you know this uh Halifax has used some green uh green communities grants to fund pump systems weatherization and administrative assistance in town facilities and 20,000 uh to fund weatherization heat pump systems and administrative assistance for uh Town facilities there was MVP Grant or U Municipal vulnerability planning um Grant Community compact it Grant to fund implementation of an online licensing and permitting um what's at risk uh for non-compliance moving forward and so um in speaking with Cody there's a number of Grant applications that could be that are out there that could be impacted uh Mass Works program approximately 1 million to redesign and construct the intersection of roots 58 and 106 uh the community compact best practices program approximately 50,000 to provide technical support to the town's form of government study and approximately 50,000 to update the town's master plan which has not been done in over 10 years a rural and small town development Grant approximately 250,000 to assist in the design engineering and permitting of town buildings to address Ada accessibility requirements and a land use planning Grant approximately 30,000 to update the town's open space and Recreation plan to allow for further grant opportunities that create open space and Recreation spaces um so just in terms of next steps the overall process um so we're at the beginning of this sort of uh onramp off-ramp however you look at it with the town Forum uh there will be a planning board hearing um coming up uh largely to be determined between October in November um I am w i welcome the opportunity to meet with folks grab a coffee um you know talk with folks about this if there's any remaining questions um it's largely to be determined because you know although I would welcome the opportunity I'm not saying that you will so you know just sort of uh just putting it out there um and then December 16th is the special town meeting uh and then December 31st uh would be the deadline to submit the state district compliance application with the adopted map and bylaw so now we're going to do um Q&A which will be moderated um by by John but before we do um just some some ground rules I suppose for for the discussion obviously um speak clearly state your name and address for the record um we all commit to acting and speaking in a way that is respectful to one another please limit your questions and/or statements to two to three minutes and try not to repeat a question that has already been asked so that we can accommodate everyone who would like to speak uh the town and ocpc staff I.E me will try to answer all technical questions if there are any technical questions that none of us up here are able to answer I will find the answers for you as long as you're signed in and I will send it out to everyone who signed up just so you have all of the answers um that you're looking for um for for for tonight and then this is my contact information I'll leave it up here if you will all right thank you Jason so uh can you just grab the other one that's right there do you want me to leave it in case people oh all right is everybody signed up who has already decided they wanted to speak yes okay so if you haven't signed up please please do so I can make sure I get your name called All right we have a new list that start up there if you haven't signed up yet no I just have one thing we could just elaborate on the coloring of the wetlands what there different colors there what they oh uh Cody why don't you uh go back over that here you go it's different types of wetlands so some are dense forest Wetlands uh some are just open Wetlands so the there's a mass DP uh key I can certainly get that up as the questions go to give you the exact uh the exact categories of wellins okay so the list I have to start with here is Joseph fav come on up um if you have questions uh for any particular part of this group um I'm going to ask you to ask me and I will get you an answer so that we can uh not get into debates back and forth again it's informational we want to hear what you folks have to say and we want to answer questions if we're able to well that was a that was a good Disney Pres presentation good sales pitch you didn't show uh nothing like the um projects in Boston or anything like that with graffi on it but look good keep that in mind the mic's probably low right yeah you got to get right into that all right there you go I said thank you for the Disney presentation okay there was nothing that showed anything with graffiti or anything like that in the projects okay page nine says commuter rail percentage of total homes 15% why are we using 25% um what what are you referring to on the slides no no it's on the handoff in the State uh is that the bylaw uh p n proposed bylaw wording let me go back to the headline here executive off office of Housing and livable communities I'm not sure what handout you're referring to that's the guidance from the state I know okay okay can you answer the question all right we we'll get we'll get you an answer go ahead sir I'm sorry can you repeat the question on the page I'm looking at it says percentage of total housing units commuter rail Community says 15% you're using 24 25% I'm going to come up and take a look cuz I think there's you're not reading the whole thing I think there's a little bit above that text I just want to make sure I have the the full picture come on out so the 15% is the percentage of dwelling units that is required under the MBTA zoning law now what are some of the other numbers that are there 25 10 for which one for Rapid Trant yep so those are communities that are served by serviced by Subways um and that's largely what Milton is sort of going through the the court process for and deter I don't care about nothing I'm asking about Halifax yes and then of the other numbers there everyone has adjacent Community what's that number that's going to be 10 that's like anybody that doesn't on the boundary of our town yes anyone who's not directly serviced by an mtkc yep an adjacent small town 5% 5% so they're even at a what's we looking for I I don't want to say lesser degree but so the numbers given the intensity of service by the MBTA a that is the percentage that's given to it so the neighborhoods that are serviced by more rapid frequent Transit are higher so that that number boils down to the 15 units per acre um that is being proposed this evening all right if I step I think I may be able to provide a some clarification well when you go to the other page when it talks about Halifax commuter rail yes it says 3,000 on my glasses but 300 you're looking at 750 units yes that's a 24 25% that's it should be less than that if it's going to 15% no so if you remember was the click well sorry I'm going to sorry to give everyone a whiplash going back to the beginning I forgot my glasses so right so I I I stated what the uh 2020 housing units were in your um your census uh for for 2020 uh which was approximately uh 3,100 um plus 7 so 3,17 um the 750 is your is 24% of the 2020 housing units and so I think the numbers are end up what confuses some people um I think this this is being recorded but I think the the state did themselves somewhat of a disservice by putting this out without doing a lot of process beforehand um but this is the situation that we're all in so we'll try to sort of get through it the best we can together um so in terms of the important numbers I think that are important to know is where that 750 came from which again is is a math problem it's it's it's you know a percentage of your overall housing stock that's currently here um and then what you were referring to is sort of um acreage and sort the how it ends up getting getting built no not really it's right here 15% so the the the guidelines further state that it's either 15% uh for a commuter rail Community like Halifax right or um that 50 acres which we're required to do with 50 units per acre which is 750 units and it the the guidance says that you will take the Lesser let's see by taking the larger number okay I'm I'm reading the guidance it says by taking the larger number so that's where the 750 comes from which Jason says that it it equals out to being 24% so the calculation isn't the 24% the C that we get the 750 by that 50 acres 50 units per acre which is 750 and that equals 24% of Halifax's year round housing stock okay so it's not 15% this is wrong no it's 20 it's 24% if it's 15% or that 750 whichever is is okay I only have little time all right so you you measured a radius of a half mile from the MBTA John mhm What's the total uh acreage in that half mile radius well I don't have the total half mile radius acreage but I can tell you the proposed overlay district is approximately 194 Acres okay we don't have to fill up the circle I know right we just have to so you went to the Northeast a little bit and then you stopped um and you just a lot of land on the map yeah on the map yeah um I think the reason I looked it up in the G the next guy that owns the next lot of land he's uh in the town hall working Alan Diaz you stopped at his boundary line didn't you I I don't know well you did I can tell you the reason that these Parcels were selected was uh the zoning bylaw Review Committee took into account the uh concerns that the residents have with this uh requirement and ultimately looked at it as if we can reach paper compliance with the Twin Lakes which ultimately it's um not going to say it couldn't be built but it would be very difficult for someone to build within Twin Lakes because they would have to effectively purchase 220 units at you know know $3 to $400,000 per unit that's 66 to $88 million go in clear the land and then pay to build the new new development it could happen I'm not going to say it can't and then the other parcel was the one that directly abuts the commuter rail station so uh the thought was to just do all of that and and limit the the chance of development in taking into consideration what the feedback has been from the community well the um Twin Lakes won't count because it's not 15 units but it doesn't matter what's built what matters is that we zone for it the other thing is it's not going to cost the taxpayers anything with infrastructure that's what the law says so they're going to have to get their own well water their old septic system designs and what about their own school system so the any developer who would want to come into Halifax to build anything um within the the boundaries of this zoning whether it's septic sewer public water whatever um sewage treatment that would come out of their pockets the town is not required to help with a dime of public infrastructure that would be up for the developer so if a developer proposes something but can't come up with the money or doesn't have the money to do the infrastructure then the project won't work because the infrastructure is not there to support it um in terms of school and I do have the data I looked at 31 years of school enrollment data in Halifax and there has been a steady decline in school enrollment in Halifax not counting Silver Lake but in Halifax since 1993 I have the numbers from desie I can show them any to anyone who wants to see them can we um so I have a a big list of people all right if I get time I may come back up if you if you want to have me sure why don't we move on to the next one thank than you for voting on something you didn't read um so the next one on the list is Van dony van Donley and if uh if you have a question let me know or if you have a comment I definitely have an Irish whisper so you'll hear me um one of the couple of questions that I have I'm also 2011 cranberry Drive in Halifax I think by Neema numbers are showing it that in the in the state multi family housing is rising multif family housing is rising at about 18% a year and single family is also growing in double digits so the need for this doesn't make any sense unless we're looking to put legal aliens down there on the train tracks so the issue becomes the issue becomes a couple of things for the town folk everybody got up here is telling us all this great stuff that we have to do who up here is telling us what the benefits if we don't okay the benefits if we don't are which we already have problems with funding in the schools now you figure one one person in each each apartment down you got 750 people going into the school system here we're going to get an override we're going to have to pass this to pay for police fire and all of this to help out the governor B ass out so this is getting a little bit uh you know the people in the town are getting pissed this is the state that threw the tea in the har youve said it before and then this is you know I'm an Irishman tell me to do something and I'll spend 100,000 to fight it okay the issue is you should asked these towns what they wanted to do here on a friendly way to do this coming to the towns and saying take it or leave it my opinion is we leave it okay and we uh folks uh again you know it it that's not helpful if you clap if you boo if you do those things it's just not helpful because again it interrupts speakers flow and it's unfair to everyone so please if you would just just let's listen to what everybody has to say if if we if we look at the the area down you're talking about might have retail and all this if you really need housing down what the hell are we do with retail right the issue to this is if you reone this now you're going to classify pot of Twin Lakes under this Zone okay now are they affected by the housing comes out well you could put illegals in their buildings now you come under the mvta zoning so that's an issue that somebody needs to answer here because if you're going to your housing on the 40 B most likely is going to be used under that same zoning District if you want to get housing in there and the idea that you've taken out the um the uh amendments here for age restrictions in this property everyone knows what's going down with that there's nobody flies on many people in the town so the issue is if you tell me this is for veterans and elderly I'm signing me up tomorrow okay but this isn't and we all know it and you're building enough multif family housing in the state to support what's happening just shut the door on the southern border and you'll be fine so that people I can tell you that people can see what's happening and they're going to try to get the you know and when they're going to vote this crap out and the people that support it and it's really rising and you're causing this because you said you know you come up here and you tell us all of those things we must do but you're not telling us if we don't do this what's the government going to do stop pissing off all the people in the state that vote for her God bless her bring it on okay I'll tell you it's not worth it if we Rec calling just the issue and I'm just saying so I mean it it's it's not fair to the people here to go to town and demand something of them and that you take that back to the governor's office if they do this they should come here and ask us would we like to do this and how would you like to do it rather than say you do this or else I'm going to take this and that frame which we paid for already now we hear today there's 900 what is it the millionaires tax they're going to take all the money out of there to pay for illegal aliens she's in trouble and she's trying to bail her butt out and now we all got to pay it just like every other tax has been coming down the road here it's all headed here and the people in Twin Lake shouldn't have I don't live there but I'll tell you what they're my they're my they're are from our town and I support them just like I would anyone else and the issue is they shouldn't have to deal with it because I think you're going to put people in Twin Lakes under that 40 there only questions I got but okay thank you um Andrew I'm going to mispronounce it I apologize uh uh Andrew Pon P pong I'm sorry congrats thank you so maybe you can help me with my math correct me if I'm wrong 750 units right MH unlimited bedrooms unlimited occupancy is that correct yes well I mean yes no someone behind you say this but there's no restriction so what it is is that there's no restrictions on bedroom sizes because they don't want just a bunch of like Studios of one bedrooms going so unlimited bedrooms unlimited occupancy is that correct so if you put you put a couple of bunk beds let's say two sets of bunk beds in a bedroom in a three-bedroom you've got 24 people in a unit times 750 you know how much that is 18,000 correct me if I'm wrong no I mean the math is right but tell so help me understand what you're trying to they you're going to have 8,000 people so you just had 750 units correct MH right unlimited bedrooms sure so there's three bedrooms per unit y okay the map 24 people yep 750 units yep am I wrong okay I'm going to back up a little bit a year ago Massachusetts declared a state of emergency for amongst other things lack of housing simultaneously they left in place the sanctuary State policies and the one in the country um right to housing all the illegal immigrants have to do is get here and they get absolutely everything the gold standard in welfare we give them everything and you know what one of the things we give them is one of these the first thing they do when they get this is call home and say you can't believe look at my apartment that they put me in for free look at the catered food okay so Massachusetts has created this problem by by allowing the border to be open and the remaining me the remaining uh the um Sanctuary State policies to remain in place so don't come to us to look for Solutions when you created the problem well not me I correct not I don't mean you direct I meant the state I'm talking about the state I get it you know they so we can't build our way out of this problem you know we talk about 15 units per per area and densities and but if the door is still open and we're dangling pork chops for these people of course they're going to come here never stop so I get the spinning our Wheels me okay so uh yeah well I thank you uh do you have any other questions you want to answer cuz we we do have a list a pretty big list of people that all want to say something uh we have no faith that the state will at any time change the rules and always in their favor and it will leave us out to drve because we said yes to an overlay and and for you to say yes to the overlay but it doesn't mean they're going to build well what's the overlay forth they're not going to build that's disingenuous for you to say that of course they're going to build can't build well again folks I mean we're going to be here for two days if you keep interrupting so please don't do that just think that's all everybody has something to say and uh we we would like to hear it and go from there thank you very much thank you so much um [Applause] Amy Amy troop 10 Hillside Avenue first of all by the Lakes was pre- zoning 1918 1920 Cottages built on 5,000 or 10,000 or more Square fet the idea that 15 houses per acre is on that by the way is absolutely incorrect there are 7 to Eight houses per acre tops I live there John so you have a question we're glad to ask it one of the reasons that we went through zoning to make it so that Halifax in every single zone has 40,000 square ft 150 ft of Frontage you need to set your house 50 ft back 30 from the sides and 40 from the back that goes in commercial and Industrial let me tell you something right now that is our master plan that is what we sold people in this town to have and a guarantee on what their houses would have around them when we sell houses we're supposed to say industrial lands across the street industrial lands behind or whatever the case may be this change is now allowing people who bought on Holm Street or Twin Lakes or anything like that have anything cart bash build behind them I have absolutely zero faith and our town boards right now to make sure that water protection or any of that would happen we have mon poned overlay being built on with a senior overlay district with a variance given for their septic system for 30 units to be closer to this the water table than ever Allowed by the state that is wrong that so first of all that's that Twin Lakes and Li and Lane with 335 units that came in in the 80s 70s and 80s and you know subdivision control went in after that do you want me to tell you why I will here it is water supply do we not have a water band do we not able to water our Lawns from now may all the way until October 1st do we have enough room in our schools do we have enough room on our roads this is subdivision control questions that the planning board supposed to ask when a subdivision comes in so basically what you're doing is stripping the rights of all the people that live in this town 8,000 of us 6,500 of us are registered to vote and we are not happy about this and by the way I have a question that 3,17 units in town does that include industrial and um business because I'm thinking it does it's residential units from the only CU it's pretty close to the total number so that's going to show you that we don't have a lot of industrial and business land so 3 3,17 people bought houses with certain guarantees that zoning for the the lower density is is a a bard of Health reason when we have septic systems that are overflowing in our ground table and ruining our Lakes our groundwater that's a problem that means we can't live here anymore because you know an Indian would actually move off of that land after a certain amount of time because that land would be bad for you we can't just keep out Outsourcing water from other areas because they're losing water at the same rate so what you're actually doing by this overlay district is by right allowing people to do this and then with the 750 units and congrats giving the um the number on how many people could possibly be here but let's just do 1,500 let's say that we have 1,500 new residents and they have 750 kids how are we going to build the school $100 million is that what we're looking at so we're worried about losing $250,000 from the state and my final remark will be we do not live in Britain we don't have a tyrant what we have is a government of the People by the people and our governor telling us what to do is not allowed in the United States of America unless we allow it no yeah that's again that's uh just just not helpful folks uh C I think it says Catherine maybe Fitzgerald mlen Road I might be misreading that Mr orur Arthur Arthur Fitzgerald maybe or Mr oh there you go yep come on up that L first thing I'd like to do is apologize you gentlemen for not understand the damn thing you've been talking about I'm 85 years old old I moved into Halifax 54 years ago right and close to the microphone 54 years ago on a call could you get closer to the mic they can't hear you that's okay umk 85 years old 54 years ago I moved into Halifax on mlen road which having measured the distance between the damn train station and my house is 4 fths of a mile now am I accurate in saying I have an acre lot acre and a quarter am I saying that my backyard is vulnerable to somebody building a ten tenant in it I mean a a a house in it uh is that what's going on here I don't think your mlen road is anywhere anywhere close to the map but you could put the map up maybe and that would show us well I know I'm 4 fths of a mile there two roads and halfway down a road away from the train station and it's 4 fifths of a mile does that mean that my property's V vulnerable to be taken by emminent domain no sir so what when you go through a zoning over you you change the base zoning now there are communities mine for example Whitman you know zoned around their their train station there's you know Regal there there's a barber shop there's single family homes all of that will exist in eternity if it wants to if a homeowner wants to sell or a a a group of home a business owner whoever then that will start it but as long as you live in your home you keep your home sort of like within family or whatever nothing will will happen to that now I know you know people are going to paint that as Incorrect and fake news and all that but I can only tell you how things operate within a the the zoning legal sort of process and you know I think Governor Healey is the one that's sort of like implementing this but I think it's worth mentioning again that this was passed by a republic Governor um no but I'm but I'm just saying you you mean a rhino well whatever but I I it it's being implemented at a time by a new Administration so there's going to be some distrust and and but all I can tell you from a legal standpoint is that your house will remain your house will remain single family home as long as you wanted to okay so there's no eminent domain uh to to take into consideration no Emin eminent domain will not come into this okay now I personally would there's a there's a uh state law that uh if you have so much land and you have a little income or whatever that you you meet the uh circuit breaker cause and that that gets me like 12200 to $1,500 a year on my taxes saving on my taxes so any income anybody that's going to decrease the area of my land is going to hurt me yeah a lot we're not go I don't think your property is even in the zone but don't you don't you think that that that this could ruin neighborhoods so uh the the again um just to just to make it real clear first of all we didn't create this law right we're we're trying to um um but you understand it and come up with a with a potential solution okay so that's the first thing second thing is though just to be clear um we're not we don't get to vote on whether or not it's a good law that's something you have to deal with with the state all we are suggesting is this is what the state's telling us and that uh a solution to that is the zoning uh rezoning the Twin Lakes area and that Garden property that's that's all we're talking about we're not we're not we can't we we have nothing to do with um whether or not it's a good idea or a bad idea the law itself all we can do is deal with as it is and then the CH fall they may you are going to change the boundaries of the of the houses right no just the Zone you're not going to say that they don't require acal Lots anymore no that's got nothing to do with this no no well all this has to do with is that the part what our proposal is exactly what you saw on the map the outline on the map and taking a uh taking that area and having it an what they call an overlay on top of it that says says this is a multi-district uh multif family District rather that's it no we're not changing lot lines we're not we're and again we're not doing anything first of all all we're doing is uh U looking at the problem or not problem looking at the circumstances and coming up with whatever we think is the best res resolution the other resolution uh to this issue is you go to town meeting in December and you say we don't want to reone it and which case in which case we are out of compliance and then we have to deal with whatever issues the state comes up with that's what we're talking about so what we've done is we've identified these circumstances we've done all the research and the studying that we can do to uh figure out the best place to put it if we're going to put it and leave that up to you folks to make that decision so that'll be entirely your choice uh we recommend that we do it this way because it puts us in compliance and we think that it doesn't really change anything now people can disagree about that but that's the proposal now there's a big parcel of land that's right next to the railroad station that goes almost all the way to Hansen except for the Big Swamp is that part of the twin uh the garden what used to be called The Garden Land part of it is I think I don't know if all of it is yes it is all of it is yes but again if you look at the map uh maybe we could put that one up there oh that one here if you look at the map you'll can I don't know if you can we can show you if you need to but the the the garden land is generally wet yeah so it doesn't get built on anyway so okay so when you say when you say Twin Lakes you you mean going back we mean the development the Twin Lakes development that's what those four Parcels are they're all owned by Twin Lakes it's all either um in common property or or or owned by Twin Lakes already built on they've already built a multi family district there we just don't call it that okay thank you thank you yeah thank you uh Tanya uh beero banero again I apologize if I'm mispronouncing I just don't know how to do it good evening uh my name is Tanya bejarano and I live on cranberry Drive um I just have a simple question for clarification because I think I'm misunderstood um you did ma'am would you just come a little closer so everybody can hear you yep thank you um you said that if our current infrastr infrastructure does not support the additional housing then this point is Moot and it can't happen the project can't happen um I was wondering how many units if any our current infrastructure can um handle oh uh I'm not sure how to I don't have an exact number but we have uh excess uh ability to draw water from our wells and we have excess ability to go back to D and apply for more under the wells so the it's certainly a question that we can get it absolutely is it well I'll say yes and no because every unit draws different amount of water so it's right so if you have a one-bedroom unit with a one bath it draws there's water capacity if there's uh multiple bathrooms there's different water capacities so okay we I just we need to know this information before we can cast our vote I can tell you there is e significant excess capacity in the wells okay but you don't have an exact number on how many units this can hold I'm sorry what was that I couldn't hear you don't know how many units that that can assist how many additional no because it's a it's there's so many variables that go into it when a developer applies for a water connection permit they can they take into account the flow and that's something that they are able to determine if it can handle it based on the development because there's so many variables right if it's a single family home so many variables then uh the Water capacity is that's needed is different so it varies um one other thing um I'm a public school teacher um could you provide the Desi information on the um past 30 years of enrollment in Halifax how could we get that information is it on the website I think Cody can bring it up yeah I I I sent it to Cody sort of broken down over that the year period in terms of like each grade level and the numbers for for each grade level starting in 1993 okay I think but yeah um you could go into desie and look at any individual school year but I pulled up all 31 and sort of but yeah all right thank you very much thank you thank you for your question question all right uh John BAU John BAU hi John bedau 165 Walnut Street um I just got to want to reiterate on her question uh who determines the infrastructure support I mean like I know we got two wells in town one never runs we have one that does run and anyone that has town water here I I wanted someone to bring a cup tonight really because I mean have you seen our water so so who actually determines that that our in structure will support it okay that's question one let me finish all right and then Grant loss who you scared the heck out of me all those Grant losses we're going to lose tons of them tons of them and wait wait wait that list might change State might change it me finish State might finish I will allow you to finish but we're going to do an overlay District to be in paper compliance okay so we're going to be in paper compliance with the state when all these other towns decide we might do that same thing we're going to put our trust in the state to say we're not going to change this law a little bit or tweak it because all these towns are beating us on it I mean it's not going to happen you are not going to beat this state okay so an overlay is not going to solve the issue um the other thing is all right as a contractor in the town I'm looking at this map and I'm I'm seeing dollar signs because I can go into any one of your homes that's in that overlay that's a single family and I can tear it down and I can put up a multi-unit okay as long as the infastructure will support it which it sounds like will all right Brown water and all just as a point of clarification there are no single family homes in the proposed overlay District none of no single family homes at all correct they we're talking four Parcels of land three of them are Twin Lakes and one is the garden company which has no development on it it's Twin Lakes is considered a multif family development okay well you'd have to buy you could buy them all up if you wanted to okay so that that one's sorry about that I I honestly thought I honestly thought there were single families in the overlay District so that that is a good thing um and then the only other question is is how is this going to help our town you know and why did we choose not to fight the fight instead of just caving in as Selectmen as the board I mean did we you did you choose a l than two evil that what happened let me answer that question first okay so I appreciate the work cuz I know it was not an easy task well we worked on it for a year uh well let me just explain that so you play cards you play poker no I don't gamble with my money I have to gamble with it how about Jin don't even buy Scratch t no one's even seen me in let me do it this way then we don't gamble with your money that's good because that's the point I'm trying to make you get a deck you get a hand and you play the cards you have right so in Halifax uh unlike say other communities perhaps um we have we think an opportunity to avoid uh getting into a fight with the state or or on on this issue and we can do it we think again by doing this resoning in this area which will not again we don't nothing has to be built it just has to be zoned in a certain fashion right we showed you we showed you the map right you see the map and there's really it's already built out it doesn't matter how many buildings are in there it just matters that it's already built out now if somebody wanted to go in and buy them all again they're all individual they could then they could do a different project if they wanted to but that's that's a different issue but it it makes little sense um for for us to uh incur legal fees to incur all these other costs um when we don't have to right that's that that that's why we're not quote unquote fighting it I mean there is a lawsuit going on with Milton it's costing them some dough uh some other towns have have also uh kind of jumped in on it there's nothing we can add to that right the only thing we can do here really at this point is either um follow this this is our best proposal we don't have a better one than this this is our best proposal uh you don't want to do it we don't have to do it and if you don't want to do it we have all of those other things that we have to worry about so I mean that's that's the choice that the town has to make we're not we're not telling you to do anything all we're telling you is that this is the situation uh and examining it as best we're able to and by the way we had uh Consultants come in to do all those numbers you know we make sure everything was in the right spot and all of that and we think this is this is this this is the option so you you have you have two options you can say no and that's up to the town if they want to say no they say no you understand that the possible penalties but that's you know that's up to the town or we can do it this way and we think that will bring us into compliance now can the state change a law later oh absolutely but we can't you know they could change a law on anything tomorrow so you you you can't really make your mind up with that all we can do is deal with the cards we have right thank you for the board for putting your work into this you're just asking us to put our trust in the state and that's really hard to do thank you though I get thatn Nancy Stevens Nancy Stevens 600 Twin Lakes Drive I have a question if that area you said is owned by Twin Twin Lakes how will it be developed you can just go in and take it no that's the point the point is um we don't we don't have to build anything um we all we have to do is create a zone that would allow this development if there's already prop if there's already buildings on the property nothing changes unless unless you decide to sell you could in which case whoever buys it perhaps could do whatever they're going to do but they have but again Twin Lakes as you know are all individual owners now wouldn't the Twin Lakes be included in this percentage because wouldn't it be included in the percentage we're half a mile from the train station they're multif family homes yeah so that number I think is a little bit confusing in one sense well it's a lot of confusing in a lot of Senses I agree but you have to Zone the area that could theoretically support that number right we don't have to have 750 extra units we don't have to have any all we have to do is have an area that theoretically based on the states uh calculations of so many houses per unit I mean per acre and so on and so forth uh could theoretically cover that so the fact that Twin Lakes is already completely built we don't have to add to that no we don't have to have 750 units but as soon as it's rezoned we will that's what's going to happen so that's the point the point is the point is the reason why we think this is the right area is because again if you look at the map that we showed you the uh not this one the one with the the wetlands in it uh you can see all the houses in there right that that's where all the development is and you can see the uh General outline of the district aside from where the house or the the Condominiums already are uh the rest of this Wetland so you we think you can't build on there anyway now there is some land what about the big land the brown pot behind us which way who H it's gone now oh we need Caesar back for that so the top left hand corner that is all Wetlands that is per M EP wooded swamp mixed trees so how come that all right so what part so all of that is what part isn't Wetlands if it's not colored if it's not so if it's not if doesn't have one of that that BL if it doesn't have the blue or the bright green or that orange color then it's yep that's all Wetlands all in that top left corner that is all Wetlands it's not color it's that it's that brown color all right well the blue is another form of wetlands okay and what I wanted to say is I don't know about everyone else here but I'm assuming a lot of people moved to this town because it was a nice quiet Suburban Town not overcrowded it's been getting worse over the past 30 years that I've lived here and this isn't what any of us signed up for well I can't again I want I want you to people have to understand if your government local government us the board of Selectmen and all of these folks that have been involved in this we aren't we aren't we aren't proposing this at all it's is in our idea we have we we we have a a state law it's a state law it says if you read the state law you have to do this okay so we're looking at that and and we could have and again the you folks are going to get the vote in December you can vote no we're not going to do our this proposal and we don't have't altered it so therefore we're out of compliance and and uh whatever the penalties are the penalties are uh or uh we can go this way so that's all there is to it I agree with you 100% we don't like being told what to do um I don't know how to express it any better than you just did but that's that's the C that we have especially considering this is our money it's our money we paying taxes so who are they to hold it hostage unless we jump through ho the problem is we we that's not going to help you won't see on the town meeting warrant do you approve freea you want to see that all you going to see is there's a zoning change potential and this is the re and we explain this is the reason for it that's that that's where we are with it it's nothing more you know nothing more than that uh we don't we're not we're not the attorney general who has decided that it's a really good idea to sue her constituents as opposed to chasing criminals you know I mean that's that's a whole different issue right I'm also one more question I'm curious about how you said there's been a decline in the schools and number of people so we've gotten rid of Faculty as well we've gotten rid of other people so when the amounts go up again we're going to have to hire more people if they go up sure well they will go up when all these units have so that don't forget you don't have to build 750 they will but if if the land is there they will build the reason why we're proposing this District the reason why we're proposing this district is one because it already is a multif family unit so um it it it fits within the the definition and secondly it doesn't appear at least in our analysis that there's anywhere to build in there really and we don't have to build any so and now you said it's zoned also for commercial I'm sorry I it's zone for commercial also no it it it this overlay would allow for mixed use development on the first floor if so if a developer chose to do that so you couldn't just go in and build just commercial you'd have to build uh we detailed the differenter building with something on the first floor yeah so like the one in I use the one in Hansen as an example there's a coffee shop on the first floor a haris salon so that type of have you been through Hansen Center I have yeah yeah I don't want to live by the way if you look at the um zoning bout uh um the bylaw itself not just the map that that's out in the back there um you'll see that there are U requirements for assuming something is built in that area there are requirements it's pretty much the same as what's already there as far as Twin Lakes it's the number of Stories the number of area and that kind of thing but is there a guarantee that the requirements can't change once we've once we've overridden this those requirements will be voted on at town meeting so yeah you can change them if you want to no I'm saying the state can't come in then and say we're going to I can't tell you what the state's the state's going to do whatever the state wants to do so as soon as we do this without a fight well the fight the fight is just say no and then we will H in a fight and if that's but again don't forget we're going to be spending the town's money on legal fees or on projects that we can't get grants for and so on so well I would rather do that than have a bunch of the towns people move out because of this that's entirely your right entirely your right thank you thank you um Jerry [Applause] Presby Jerry Presby oh come on up please I got to go down there Hi I live on ala Road Jerry Presby and the thing that I'm concerned about is once we change this zoning law then the the whole complexion of the Town changes because even though you said there's a lot of wet lands I believe people will come in buy up the land and change everything Route 36 cannot handle the um amount of traffic that extra units will take in the schools can't the Fire and Police Department can't our entire complexion of this town will suffer if we go along with complying to this mandate I think we need to join other towns and fighting what is going on with the state because it's a can it's it's a one one you know one mandate one size fits all and it doesn't fit our town oh I agree with you but again that it depends on where you want to spend your money you spend your tax money on that now for example I live I live on ala Road I'm within a half a mile of the train station you may but again the Zone isn't including Anon it's not including that so someone couldn't come in and buy my neighbor's house and put in a because if you look at the if you look at the zoning map you'll see ala road is not included in there okay but it could eventually become included no well Town me town town meeting would have to do that okay we could do it now I mean if town meeting decided tomorrow wanted to rezone a section of property we certainly could it's got nothing to do with this requirement but they could I think that's the way we would be heading if we allowed the zoning change thank you all right uh David [Applause] maio David masio 1610 f so I understand what you're saying okay and I want to kind of help a little bit explaining basically what you're saying okay with the Consultants which I just heard about this part basically what you're saying is that we say yes we don't have facts as to how much land we can actually use we're gambling essentially that you say okay yeah you know we don't sign this we don't say yes or else we're going to lose all these grants so we say yes to this essentially you believe that well there's not enough land over there m there's not enough there's not enough for them to say yeah but it's proposing a zoning change which eliminates our zoning laws completely and brings it doesn't eliminate it it does it just sorry I you're right I stand corrected it changes the zoning laws just for that just property yes okay which I I understand so have you used these committees or these Consultants to back up how much land we don't have do you have actual figures of what land is Wetlands that is already zoned Wetlands yeah that we cannot build on that's that's what the map shows 100% it's we can't build on it so why aren't you guys going back to the state and saying hey look it we've looked at all these areas that could be proposed and we can't do it so why should we fall why would that make us have to not fall in compliance if we can't do it anyways we we really don't have that vehicle uh we we have the law the law is what the law is what what do you mean the vehicle you say well we should go back and argue with the state the only thing we could we we've already talked with um so the state is saying either you sign yes or else and that's that's the law that's the vehicle yeah not the state listening to the town boards our administrator our zoning boards our planning boards saying hey these people know what they're doing okay yeah you're right we can't support this in the town just it's it's a pass law I don't care so see how I can explain this they the because what you're doing is slide a hand no no no no no no 38 play cards John 3A I don't I don't okay slide a hand 3A you see something going on over here but there's really something going on over 3A section 3A says you have to you have to have this multif family Zone if you're multi whatever whatever it is it says you have to do that right and so um what the town hasn't done yet is adopt this particular zoning the town doesn't do it they don't have to but we if we're going to be in compliance we have to do it by the end of this year so and in order to be in compliance we have proposed again this isn't our idea get that understood I know all right we have proposed we have proposed a solution to the town that will comply with the law we know it will comply with the law because we've already had this sent to um the housing people that will ultimately make a decision whether or not we're in compliance and they sent it back and said Yes except a couple things which we fixed so we know that the state will accept this um and then the only question becomes does the town want to accept this now whether you think the law is so bad that we shouldn't comply with it at all that's perfectly your right that's perfectly your right you can do that but just un what we're trying to do tonight is understand the options so the option on the one hand is to say no that we're not going to Zone this we're not going to change the zoning and the other option is we have a we have full of people here that are concerned that that it that whether we buy the snake venom oil or not it's it's it's going to be okay and and no big deal you guys gave a great presentation on how great this vehicle is going to be for where it's going to go but nobody wants their taxes to go up anymore they don't want to see more people and you know honestly how hello what what what have has been looked at as far as the housing crisis in Halifax if you go to a movie you buy a ticket for the movie and the movie's full are they going to try and sit people on the floor we're full in Halifax right essentially how many houses we actually have for sale on anybody know 317 according to the last1 oh for sale oh for sale so so so wait let me talk you're have to pay and half% extra tax so thank the governor we're we're full in Halifax we don't have we don't have the the facil the things to facilitate more in Halifax is this things that the boards have brought up to the state 100% saying hey look it we can't afford to take more people in what we do need help with is to reduce the amount of taxes that the this 30 and 40e residents here fixed income that are paying astronomical taxes on their homes and then there's people like me I got 1100 foot house on 4,800 sare feet of land I'm paying over $5,000 that's Insanity then we're going to bring in low-income housing to to support what this again this this isn't low-income housing but let's just I mean try try to focus on if you don't like the plan you don't like the plan that's not the point John well the point the point is it my point I'm sorry I kind of straighted off a little bit how much have you got done against this plan to give it to the state say hey look at we we can't comply there you go notk you well we can't comp we don't have that option we can't comply to what you're what you're asking for we don't have that option we don't have that option to to to to your point um I can tell you that I have had several meetings with the Department of Housing liable communities which is the state agency ultimately overseeing this selectman seelake has joined me for several of those meetings Mr Bruno has joined me several of those meetings we have voiced for the for the past year and a half we have voiced that to the state we so everything that you're saying we have voiced that to them we have let them know of their concerns that 750 units hypothetically is a huge amount in Halifax that it's a it shouldn't be a one-size fits-all approach we have expressed all of that now what the state has done in response is you know I can say the Hing livable communities haven't done much um but I can give representative latra credit when we reached out to her with our concerns she put us in touch with Old Colony planning Council um and got us the funding for all this information to again just provide the information tonight this isn't to sway one way or the other just so you're making an educated decision at town I'm here I didn't come here to throw an argument I came here to learn okay that's why I'm here because I'll be honest with you over the last of the two the course of the last two summers here in Halifax we have seen some dramatic changes massive changes especially to our Lakes I'm not going to bring this topic up but it it has been a nuisance you know what I'm talking about the chief knows what I'm talking about okay that's just a small fraction these aren't even residents yet in what's going on with our town so with just that little bit this is a fight that we have for our boards to present to the state for the or else I mean there's no other way around them saying hey hey look it you know it you're right one size does not fit all does not at all okay Halifax can't support anymore we got I'm sorry nine houses any nine houses for sale in the town of Halifax I guarantee you got they got to be all all over $300,000 cuz you know it's pricey to live here what did you guys do to try and stop it over a year and a half well uh Eric mesio good evening my name is Eric mosino I'm actually a resident of Plymouth I'm also a candidate for state representative my comment on this first and foremost is this absolutely reeks of authoritarianism the state has presented us with the choice you can comply and that's what everybody keeps saying comply you have to comply apply that's sounds a lot like tyranny to me okay and if you don't we're going to punish you we're going to use your own tax dollars to sue you potentially we are going to withhold your tax dollars from you so yes there's a choice you can comply and sell out the town's bylaws which is I think a travesty because people like Miss troop said like this gentleman here said uh you know the these bylaws are here to protect the people this is why people moved to these towns they didn't move here to live in little Brockton so yes this is a choice to comply or to be punished and I think we have a room full of people here that don't like this at all and I actually somebody I'm sure somebody's going to hate me for saying this I commend you that's pretty interesting uh project you got there I still don't like it I mean you know it's it's an interesting solution but I think it's wrong to sell it the town's bylaws and there is a potential and yes you did go to miss latra but my question is for Kathy addressing it to you John can see your constituents don't want this at all what are you doing at the State House to protect your constituents from this ridiculous old overreach State Authority when we are losing on average 1,00 people a week from this state because of policies like this so in the past three years we're talking about what 170,000 people why do we need mandated State housing thank you thank you I don't know it's up to you if you want to answer um she doesn't have any answers um Thomas Pratt Tom Pratt where'd he go H hi Tom Pratt uh 10ad path uh in full transparency I'm also member of the board of selectman but I'm asking these questions as a private citizen um just two quick things uh one for uh Jason I believe it was can you just re-reference the uh 45% approval rate and what that represented yes it's all way that one uh I think you referenced 45% of towns have approved 45% of the towns that are required to comply with the NBTA and what about the remaining 55 how much are up for debate in this election cycle and how many have not complied what percentage has not complied so I mean I could do the math it would take me a second but please can we do the math please it would be so those have complied as a now but not everyone has the same compliance deadline correct 45% have complied what have not what percentage has not complied well there's at least three right now that are um formerly not in compliance U Milton because their compliance deadline was last year um Hansen um well they so so a number of these communities haven't had their special town meeting yet in order to vote for it well you referenced 45% in compliance I'm asking how many % is out of compliance is it 55 out of comp no because I'd have to take a look from the the website to see how like who's actually not in compliance and who hasn't had their compliance deadline come up yet well if 45% are in compliance it has to be a percentage out of compliance correct you should know that yes until the end of the year what is that per until the end of the year so technically they're not no no no if you're referencing 45% in compliance now yes there has to be a certain percentage out of compliance now all right I just be like quick figure off top of my head give or it's probably between 10 and 15 now the remaining of that 40 to 45 or whatever would be are not required to be in compliance until either the end of this year or the end of next year because a majority of them are small uh adjacent towns which don't have to come into compliance like until the end of this year and then small adjacent towns don't have to come into compliance till the end of next year if 45% are in compliance and 15 are out we have 6 60% compliance in and 40% pending no it's it's largely to be determined right so a quarter percent have have declined so one out of four have declined three out of four are in with 40% pending is that fair maybe again it's like without having the the towns in front of me it's hard to say okay a lot of my other questions have been satisfied tonight just one quick question I for maybe for the group and I know directing you the chair um a lot here is directed in this direction of the table I would ask the crowd maybe to ask Senator Brady and representative latra how we got here and why you recommend this you voted for it both of you did um voted for it would you would you care to comment and you guys have done a lot of listening would you care to comment on why you voted for it and as a representative Halifax why it's good for our town not the other towns you represent well I will say that out of all the towns that I represent this is the first meeting that I've been asked to come to regarding this new law and I'm I'm glad to have the input from the residents we can try to change some of the laws that's been put in place if the people are not happy with the existing law as was mentioned this was proposed by Governor Baker it was in with a housing bill that had a lot of other good things on it you can't always get something perfect as we know I'm not making an excuse but pork belly right but but pardon me pork belly spending is that not necessarily there's there's several Towns at one wanted this not every town is against us but not every town is for it I understand that so if there's a chance to change this law I'm happy to put that forth before the leadership in in the my fellow colleagues in the Senate and and I'm sure I can't speak for rep Lantra but um we can try to change this if the majority of the residents are not happy with this what would you say if you represented Milton and the majority of their repres uh Town voted no would you have halted a lawsuit or would you have stepped in at any point or would you let the law out I don't represent Milton but if you did yeah well I'm learning about the law lawsuit in Milton because I don't know all the facts of Milton it's it's materal over some time here I I've talked to the the legislators from Milton and and that's about it I haven't heard from Milton residents about it I don't represent Milton I represent Randol Avon Brockton Whitman Hansen Halifax East Bridgewater and I used to represent and but with redistricting I have Avon and poov now with Senator Timothy and have you heard any resistance from Hansen on that I have not heard anything from this is the first meeting that I've been asked to attend to Hansen declined correct yes yeah I and you weren't invited or didn't speak to them no one in contact I I was not I was not uh reached out from anybody on this issue I I get a lot of calls about everything else with I serve on the Public Safety Committee for so I get calls from about public safety issues every day you know support police and firefighters which they do all the time I am also on the chairman of the public service committee which represents a lot of public employees so I get calls about people with disability people get Hur on the job about getting their pension straighten out um funding this no I can appreciate all that but did once Hansen voted no did you find it appropriate to reach out to them to find out why I've talked I've gone before the select but none of them have brought anything up to me regarding this did you reach out to them after they voted no have you have you had any correspondence I've talked to them but again no one has bring this brought would they bring other issues up to me but they've not discussed this at all with me okay we um so yes so I have discussed this with all the towns that I represent and some are not in support and I support that do I think Halifax I mean obviously you don't want this will I support that of course I will will I step into a lawsuit as Senator Brady said it was to sessions ago was in a housing Bill there were a lot of good things in that housing bill it was a unanimous vote it was a unanimous vote at that time how many times do you represent how many how many District Six Towns how many voted yes so far none thank yeah so far none just to be clear um Halifax technically as most a lot of those numbers that Cody was talking about is not out of compliance yet we will be out of compliance if we don't do the zoning change before the end of the year so just to be clear about how how all that works okay uh pam angstrom pam angstrom no no no no we're going down the list we're going down we are going please we're going down the list if I let you do it everyone has to do it please everyone has to follow the same rules one thing it's on the subject that we just left ma'am please I'm going to tell you you're out of order now please have a seat if you want to speak you'll get the opportunity after we go through the list you already had a chance to talk and I want to follow the rules here all right so Pam if Pam angstrom please Pam angstrom 65 Pawn Street um someone had already asked um and I just re reiterate the question about who determines what the infrastructure supports not just you know the water which is a main concern we got plenty of people who have you know Brown water whether you say there's enough water you know I don't know if it matters if you've got brown water but um you know roads schools everything else you know who does determine what the infrastructure can support um also you know if the town were to vote on that one particular area is there the ability for this the state to expand beyond that proposed Zone in the um documentation it said um you know it covers like 40% so it's you know so the all we can deal with is the rules we have right and the rules we have say that within a certain distance you have to have uh a certain amount of a certain District right if if you agree with our proposal with this proposal if you agree with that proposal then we would be designating a separate area as that particular zoned District not anything else it's just that one area now can something happen in the future uh I I don't know honestly I don't have a crystal ball I can't tell you what's going to happen in the future maybe but I wouldn't say that based on the facts that we have now that we were we're talking about one specific area with a border around it right okay and then just one suggestion you know when it comes to town meeting if you guys can just be prepared to maybe show the residents what the financial impact you know potential Financial impact of complying and not complying I know I know the grants are on there but I'm just saying you know for other aside the the Grant in in the statute itself it specifically says that these grants will be with would be withheld right so that's what those numbers were are there other financial implications I mean if the Attorney General is successful in her lawsuit which was just argued on Monday then um she has the uh ability and apparently the interest in suing her constituents you and me uh rather than chasing criminals as I like to say um and you know what we we'll have to do is we'll have to defend it so that's going to Mean Mr hrom is going to going to get paid and so that's one of the financial things and I thought I heard recently there it say I don't know if we receive funding for the schools from the state they were talking about withholding school funding we do but that is not part of the discretionary funding that's a separate issue again the finances are kind of complicated but that that that and the highway would would not be part of this some of the other discretionary things that have to do with highways and buildings might be but directly you know the the funding we get for the school every year the funding that the highway department gets every year that's that's not part of this okay all right thank you yes thank you Karen favor good evening uh Karen fav 66 Clyo Bosworth um I have a couple of questions the first one is why are we doing a a zoning overlay versus just giving the town people the vote of denying the whole thing we are not you can deny the whole thing I'm asking you why it's not on our warrant to deny the whole thing that we're doing we're asking the town constituents to do an overlay that's not the same thing as shutting it down completely and saying we don't want this for our town so we don't even if we put that question on the ballot it's not going to um have much effect because we don't get the right as a town to vote on whether or not we we uh agree with or accept the state law right so the state let me finish state says the these are the rules right so our option is to um try to comply with the rules as best as we can which is what we're making the a proposal and honestly as far as as far as what our job is our job is to evaluate this stuff and give the town its options right and the options here are you can agree with this proposal and say if we do that we'll be in compliance and so on and so forth or you can say we don't want it in which case you're telling the state that you're not going to be implied I mean that's exactly that's not an option on the warrant we don't have that option we only have an option of voting for this overlay right well that's that's all there is that we don't have we don't have the option we could vote no as and and that should be our right to be able to vote it down no we don't want it we are that's the question no we're not you just you said but that's the try to that's the option the option is you vote to change the zoning or you vote no if you vote no you're saying no if you vote to change the zoning then you change you're going sideways John it's either we can vote no on the whole law which is what the law is right we can say no as town or you're saying we going to try to go into compliance by doing this overlay no no no so you will not see on the warrant do you agree with 3A or do you accept 3A or anything like that we don't have that option that's not an option the option is either we do what the state's asking us to do or we don't that's the option we don't get the right to say to the state we disagree with your law you can do that if you want it doesn't mean anything if you wanted to I suppose and I haven't talked to the board about this but I suppose you could put something on the ballot on the warrant rather that says uh you know do we uh ask the state to change the law well we could do that it's going to have almost I mean whatever effect it has I don't know what but that's not the issue well you've given a nice presentation okay and I've heard a lot tonight of we think I think we think that the Twin Lakes will comply we think we think well guess what do you have it in writing that it's that it's going to meet the compliance we do you have it in writing we do okay I'd like you to share that with everyone that have post that on our website absolutely um because I've heard tonight I think we think I think I think and that's not the same as this zoning proposal which is again one of the options of the town you have two options you can vote it up or down and if you vote it down you just understand that you know there are other potential things if you vote it up we're in compliance right has to be done by the end of the year we've already sent that um information the bylaw the map the whole deal uh to the same state agency that uh has to approve this anyway and they sent it back to us and they said there's a few minor things that we want you to change which we did nothing like one of them was just a way you did the map it was insignificant really um and so it's so we're we will be in compliance if this um zoning change is agreed to okay and again it's not all we're telling you we just want made up the rule we want everyone to understand what a what we're require what the state's requiring us to do whether the with it or not that's that that's what they're saying and B what our options are and those are our options that's what that's what this whole process tonight is about it's just trying to get everyone to understand now how you vote on that is entirely up to you you can have any reason in the world to vote Yes or no you know maybe you don't like the law maybe you don't like the way it's written maybe you don't like it maybe you agree maybe you don't that's entirely up to you but at least understand the options that's what we're trying to do right I just think that there is an option that we're not being given which is vote the entire mbta's only we can't do that we don't have that option okay I think another town has done it the other thing is is that um the Twin Lakes I don't know if you're familiar with the over by cordage Park those um condos that are there that when they built that and they tried to include that in their scenario they were shot down and they weren't able train station there's no train station there anymore all right so um anyone who has not already spoken excuse me all right I think Joe fa oh I'm sorry yep come on up just Jeff loer 837 pouth Street um couple of things um has a Thorndike project been taken into consideration for housing you have 317 first of all first of all um if you if you remember that one of the early slides uh it said that under this law we can't be age exclusive so and Thorndike is an over 55 development so so even though those homes will be added to Halifax's list they will not be included in the count is that correct uh well they would add to our number of residents yeah but it doesn't affect the percentage of uh 15% okay I think so not not no we have to no those things aren't even built yet so this has to be done this has in order to be in order to follow the law we have to make a decision M all right a decision by the end of this year by December 31st so if all those houses got built between now and then then maybe it would change it but that's not going to happen so there are laws made this is a law and there are also bad laws that have been written so I have a question for the two reps that are here um has anybody I mean Dread Scott is a perfect example of a law that is a bad law so this is a bad law has anybody in a legislator legislature looked into reversing this law yes and what are the results so there's being um legislation filed now drafted now a little late yeah it is late but it will be going in in January okay and what happens if the uh legislature votes to um reverse this law all this will be for nothing it will it will okay yeah what is um what is your consensus at this point I know it's still J it's not January what is your consensus on this there are a lot of towns towards the city that welcome this and there's a lot of towns in our area that don't I mean not one shoe does not fit all and I realize that okay yeah all right thank you okay thank you uh uh who's sponsoring that bill who's sponsoring the repal the bill is being sponsored by myself and um M meor to repeal the law yeah hi thank you Peter Beals 28 Elm Street in Halifax you might want to get a little bit closer I know it's low but it is thank you all right uh first just want to say a word of thanks I know I have served on Town boards before the town board before not the selectman but Finance for a long time and I know that a lot of work is done and a lot of preparation is done and I thank you for the that I do mean that sincerely that said I do believe that the town uh looks to the boards because we're busy as as everybody including yourselves um and we and Trust to the board that they will make the best decisions in the interest of the Town not just in themselves but the interest of the town and tonight we've heard questions we've heard that there's a couple things that came to mind my first without doing any complicated math at all this is a 25% increase in the number of slightly under but 25% increase in the number of housing units in our town we have seen the town change recently and I'm not against change I probably nobody is but there have been significant changes in our town to add another 25% means even in this room tonight theoretically 25% more people would be here for meetings like this and multiply that out across everything so it's a pretty significant decision in and of itself um the sentiment that I heard throughout and I got here late cuz I came from work um so I didn't get to hear all the presentation at the beginning but the sentiment that I heard at least from my seat which was all of the Q&A uh was basically that we love our town and that we like it because of what it is and the way it is um it will change regardless of the type of housing that's built if 25% is is allowed to be built like that uh the town will change and I don't think anybody can deny that if we love it the way it is there's a reason for that and that includes a certain definition of what it is um we have yet to see what how the town will further change with a recently approved uh project that has taken place that hasn't even been built yet I did attend that meeting over in the elementary school and that night I also heard well this is just a zoning thing a couple of people got up to the mic to say to raise some objections and they were immediately shut down because the first article was simply zoning we heard that repeatedly I was going to say something but I was trying to be respectful and follow the procedure and okay this question was on zoning before I even knew what happened the meeting was essentially over and it had passed because zoning evidently is quite an important component in all this so I guess the sentiment that I would repeat that I think we've heard is that of are we a sovereign town or not I know that's not entirely the case but are we not able to govern and entrust our own board to govern ourselves we've certainly heard um tonight you know I think almost unanimously from those who came to the podium we've heard objection to this it seems to me that the people of town are entrusting the board to in this day when everybody's being told democracy is under threat we're we're entrusting the board to represent us in some way we realize you've you've done a whole lot more homework on this and you've seen a whole lot more and you're more familiar with the law than we are but it seems to me we're against it we certainly hope that our I can only say you know I certainly hope that our boards uh would call follow the will of the people on this kind of thing the I know that it goes to the ballot I know that it's a vote by the people but or I'm sorry that it goes to the vote the vote later but the board the will of the board the position of the selectman on it is an important thing in the town we certainly hope that uh they would represent the people all right so just two things um one again the only place that um would be rezoned is this place that's on the map so it's not like you're going to build all of a sudden houses all over the place as far as this issue goes it would just be there but the the other thing again and I can't I don't know I mean I I thought I was being clear about this but maybe I'm just in articulate but you know our job as the board of selected is to um address issues address problems as they come along um and to evaluate those and then present to the town its options that's all we're doing here we don't we don't get to vote on this indiv I mean I get to vote one vote he gets one he gets one you get one we all get one vote on whether or not that we want to comply under under the The Proposal that we're making or or not but the board doesn't do that all we're doing is presenting tonight the options to the town and saying that we have to make a decision the town has to make a decision not the board the town has to make a decision by the end of this year and so if you don't want it just vote against it I I I don't I mean really that's that's what it comes down to you have everybody has to weigh that themselves and make that decision but the bo the board doesn't we could say no and it doesn't make any difference about leadership aren't you going to tell us what you guys want or not recommendation you're hold on hold on wait wait wait I I asked you before please don't shout I'll give you the opportunity to talk thank you Peter if I may um so I wasn't here at the beginning and so I and I shame on me I don't know all the you know all the ramifications of all of this and how it's unfolding in the next couple of months but it certainly sounded to me having come in middle of the presentation as if the members of the folks the folks up on the on the platform here were supporting this idea that this was perceived as a general rule as a good thing and that the town ought to recognize what we supported was to uh evaluate the issue which we did by assign uh by assembling a a separate committee to investigate it hired a lawyer we hired all the people that we had to do to do the investigation and then to come up with a uh what what the options were and this is the best option we could think of and that's that's how you know that's that's that's that's what is that's all and then we voted to put it on the warrant so that the town can make their own decision that's as Dem Democratic as you can get and so you know do you think do we think that we should put it on the warrant and it should be decided by the town yeah but it's up to the town if the town and understand again tonight's um purpose was to make sure that the that everyone hears the same information has the same information and can understand their options and so those are the options so yeah and I would just jump in here so I would just tell you that I appreciate the questions in all all all throughout um the zoning bylaw committee Review Committee did a lot of work on this and about a month ago we voted collectively unanimously I might add to put that forward to a vote in December to put it on the ballot to comply with State regulation uh subsequently I was asked by a resident who's here tonight on social media from my personal point of view I think we satisfied as a board the obligation put forward by the state to put it on the ballot I don't support the Mandate was I don't support that mandate at all I will be a no on December 16th they should the state should not be allowed to tell us how to govern our own town possible extortion possible you know rule changing it's not appropriate it's not their purview and I'm a no vote and I made that public only when asked on social media I don't want to speak for either of these two individually or collectively but I in no vote on the Mandate it's not appropriate or or you know in the best interest of the town for me so again again as long as you leave tonight understanding the options vote whichever way you you right obviously everybody doesn't agree with you there are people that maybe aren't speaking tonight that don't agree with you they think we should do this right so it it's entirely up to the town everyone gets a vote and then we go and with board and the town and everybody else will go with whatever the town decides so I mean I don't know how they clearer than that really can I ask one one follow-up question it's related to something that was said but not directly on this we were told that the town has a significant excess in water capacity can the selectman can we do something about the Water band that we have every year that's I'm not I'm not kidding you're off you're really off topic on that and we do we should have the Water Commission in here for that remember they they control the water uh so when I was we don't we don't have anything to do with the band by the way just just piece of information when I was on the finance committee for years I was leaon to the water department and the water department the water commissioner I think is the title who had had that job for many many years told me that when a Housing Development is built there's no study done or there was no approval he was not in the room about whether um the expansion could be could handle the water I don't know the truthfulness of that or not I kind of came away having studied the water thing with the idea that this was um kind of something nobody really knew um so if it is in fact true I'm just asking if the select off topic but it was brought up so that would be really great we'll pass that on to the Water Commission and they can thank you all right anybody else who hasn't spoken Jean yeah this microphone yeah hi I'm Jan Gant um cranberry Drive um also the library director and um I wasn't aware but I heard in the presid presentation so my questions to you Jason you said that um you you put up all the grants that that may be affected and then you said in the library too so um are we talking my state aid that I get every year for being in compliance with my library regulations from the state or or like Construction Grants and things like that thank you so without having the entire state budget in front of me um I will put that Asis there but um it depends on which funds of those are through qualified allotments the ones that you get anyway and then which ones are considered quote unquote discretionary now the listary it's the discretionary funds that would affect the library or so after this I'll give you we we can I I give you my information and then I can get that information for you just so you have y all right thank you okay anyone else who yes sis come on up just uh again tell us who you are and come close to the mic so everyone can do my best here Robert Hughes on Christmas re line I missed the section where you talked about the uh financial implications of not being in compliance can you pull that up sure what the monetary cost to us as a town here oh the actual yeah what's the number and is that an annual fee or is that like a so one time he's got two two slides here to tell you what's we've had in the past and what's coming up in the future so I'm sorry here so what's on the screen now are grants that have either been applied for that haven't been awarded yet or ones that the town hopes to receive okay available right or they yeah what yeah not so much the town are available the towns that the the grants that the town can't apply for grants that are available for anything no these are grants that we are planning to apply for and have applications in process to submit these aren't just grants that are available to the town that we're not going to take advantage of these are grants that applications are in the process to be submitted for specific Halifax projects so just the list here so it's it looks like back of the hand math it's like $1.38 million is that correct of potential funding right there's no guarantee these are applications that are going to be submitted got it all right and then the uh other question I had I appreciate the effort you went through to find the least usable land possible within the half mile it seemed to be um but it wasn't clear to me cuz the I mean the graph was decent um but I couldn't figure out what percentage of that land was already developed and they would just have to knock over these let's call them two units in a spot and put in you know 50 have you yes sir have you gone have you ever driven through Twin Lakes uh maybe once or twice okay so Twin Lakes is a uh a condominium development they're all um um like in a block but each one is individually owned y um it is actually uh for I don't know where that lady went the twin lak's lady but it's a it's a beautiful development okay um and so potentially potentially somebody could say I'm going to come in I'm going to buy up all of these individual units tear them all down and then rebuild a multif family unit I totally understand that my question is what percentage of the the proposed land that you want to rezone is under that umbrella of all you'd have to do is buy that bulldo versus is develop wet land I don't know if we I feel like that's an important I can't give me about 2 minutes absolutely the information would you like me to make a a noise or no pressure don't put any more pressure on them already to get the numbers right since you're doing so a little math I would like to see how much 1.38 million would be per what do we have 8,000 is people here yes yeah 75 7500 how many of them are taxpayers all right so let's do we'll do one four to make it nice and easy for us I don't understand why we need a million dollars redesign 58106 we just resurfaced that it's come on I'm trying we're trying to we're trying to run a meeting where everybody has their say if you start holling please please don't do it it's $186 66 roughly per um resident if we in in as far as like offsetting the 1.4 million I'm overestimating the total amount of grants that we're applying for would be no longer eligible to receive well that's right now yeah yeah and so like a year per resident I my my thought is maybe I'm misreading the room but I don't think so most people would rather pay an excess of $250 more a year in taxes not that I want to pay any more in taxes that's the first time I've come come close to saying that versus the possible outcomes for rezoning this area and seeing the um population of the Town significantly and the resources of the Town significantly strained so again the um purpose of tonight's meeting is to uh just give you folks as much information as you can because we figure that when we get to town meeting um everyone has had enough time to digest ask any additional questions do any additional research and at least that way we can we can uh that point we can vote I understand that was more for the crowd so they understood the math like you're look you're it's like 200 bucks a year yeah so I'm just that that was all did you uh find that percentage that'd be great I do so of the total 194 Acres 24.2% of it is not in Twin Lakes um and of that 24.2% 5.51% of the overall acreage would potentially be developable not Wetlands great that that was a that so again that was my assumption looking at the graph you did an excellent job of picking land that would be tough to build on and make it you know less economically viable um but I I think the overall risk and I will be voting no um and I appreciate the presentation thank you for giving me those numbers and thank you for your time okay anyone else who hasn't yet spoken anyone else who hasn't yet in the back sure come on up FR sorry but I have two questions question roax M uh one member of the board of selectman has made their position very clear as to where they stand on this uh if I could get the other two if they're willing to share it their position on where they stand in relation to the state's mandate whether they are for it or against it so again the uh the state mandate if you're asking about whether or not the statute uh itself uh I can tell you that I've already expressed as hard as well as I can that I think it's a bad law and that it shouldn't it shouldn't be in existence and it's over it's an overreach and everything else if if your question is do I think that uh it is in Halifax's best interest to rezone this area like we're proposing then my answer is yes given the facts that we have and I I won't speak for anyone else sure no I'll answer gladly um when I first heard about this program and the the number of 750 uh way too many way too many right I think all of us can agree nobody wants 750 units built in Halifax uh I did share that information with the state Cody and I have met with many people to express our concern that uh just not a good fit for Halifax right what I will say is the people that spent a year coming up with this overlay did a phenomenal job oh my did a phenomenal job you can say oh my God if you want they they did the best job they could they found a spot in town that would be extremely difficult to develop all while staying in compliance right it's a job that I can I don't want to speak for the committee at all it's a job that none of them were excited to have none of them went into this saying oh boy I get to do this for Halifax right right so they did they they made the best chicken salad they could out of other chicken stuff it's eat it right yeah whether you like it or not so um so for me I'll be honest it's a it's an inner struggle for me and I'll please let me explain why it if this means that there isn't any major development going on in Halifax if it means that the plan that these folks came up with is going to insulate us from a major project coming down the pike I do believe it's a good plan that's if that's if that happens if if not then I'm not a fan right and and no one can predict the future you know I again it's Twin Lakes and it's no other buildings on that property and it's the majority of wetlands so again kudos to this crew for coming up with a plan that is it is it a guarantee that there's going to be no development I don't think you can do that nobody can do that but did they come up with a plan that will be very very hard and maybe not economical for a developer to come in and build I think they did thank I want I want to thank everybody that spent the time to actually do this and I'll follow that up my second question can I can I just jump in real quick just as an aside I'd also like to thank the committee but their their charge was not singularly the NBTA and I applaud that whole effort that they put forward and while we can support 90% of it the 10% can be left aside and separate the MBTA zoning law on December 16th additionally The House Always Wins so if you have concerns about whether it means a yes vote means it's very difficult to develop Twin Lakes it doesn't mean it's impossible the state is the house they can change the game where they want correct and just to touch on what Tom says and I I agree completely The House Always Wins right if we say no to I just got to make sure that everybody is okay that it could very well mean we're using our T our Halifax tax dollars that we collected we won't be using that for services here in the town we will be using that to fight the state legally okay and that will mean less services so that again that's that's what I'm grappling with it's the loss of Grants it's it's spending money on litigation those are the those are the ying and the Yang Mel that I'm dealing I think that's a natural segue into my second question if we were to vote no to the state and say no this does not work for the town of Halifax does this um give us some insulation from uh prevailing wage Etc that we were able to send any bids for any Municipal work out to Private Industry the uh the the statute is clear I have a copy of it here if you want to see it but the statute is clear that the uh it itself imposes the penalty of those what we call discretionary grants and again that there's a little bit of um UND undefined in all of that but as far as all of the other state laws like prevailing wage and that has nothing to do with this I mean if you look at the statute it's got nothing to do with if we were not taking if we were not taking state grants Would we not be subject to um prevailing wage Etc on any Private Industry projects that you put out for example the senior center if we were not to put that out in front of the state for state grants Etc monies that we were required to match and be subject to uh having a project manager appointed by the state Etc would be would we be able to put those out to Private Industry and still be able to facilitate those projects on a municipal level that that's a whole those are whole different um they're not related no that's chapter one uh chapter 30b chapter 149 those are separate state laws any public funds so any public no no your your funds are public your tax dollars are considered public funds so any funds that the town utilizes we we have to follow uh State procurement which is chapter 30b for a building construction project chapter 149 um so whether we take scra grants or not we have to follow those State procurement laws thank you anyone else who has not spoken in the back yes yes ma'am please just uh tell us who you are and talk real close to that microphone because it doesn't pick up well okay hi Michelle Kelly 182 hom street I'm in a butter of Twin Lakes been there for 34 years and I appreciate you're answering the question that I think the gentleman left already saying that there's 5% of the total that is potentially buildable what does that translate to an acreage about 9.7 acres and how many houses per would would how many when you talked about density when you talked about density how many um potential homes could fit in that acreage so it would' be 15 units per acre so it was the 135 and may I ask do we know who owns that property now I just know it is the Halifax Garden company it's uh owned in some sort of real estate trust I don't I don't know who does anybody in the room know can look it up on the assessor database but we we didn't that wasn't taken into consideration when we okay thank you all right thank you anyone else who has not spoken yes sir just again tell us who you are and come close John F uh Ash Road um there ain't many oldtimers here anymore that know the town and Halifax has a very high water table um and it's been proven in the past that the town lets people build on Wetlands Elm Street all the houses on the right hand side going into Hansen are 4 feet higher than the road because it's built on Wetlands Riley autopods is built on wetlands Dunkin Donut is just built on wetlands and every time it rains out there's a huge Lake in front of the place so if they if you if we rezone this the um they will build on those Wetlands they'll fill it in they'll make it higher and they'll build as much as they can out there you guys let it happen before the guys before you let it happen so I tell the state it's not going to happen thank you anyone else who has not spoken Joe I think you uh Joe had something may was not we cut him off so my questions were answered okay thank you because Joe because it's all being recorded they won't be able to hear you Joe just like the gentleman just said about the wetlands that they would build on it to raise it and I think they have to whatever Wetlands they take they have to put aside some other Wetlands is the way I understand it but again the new zoning that they will have is they don't have to follow any of our bylaws they do no no no the state in that area that you're putting up with zoning they don't follow Halifax's bylaws um why don't ask uh Town Council just to uh explain that maybe uh if I if if I understand your question the only thing that this proposed bylaw would would do would be to create an overlay zoning District it wouldn't have any effect on um on the uh obligation to comply with other Town bylaws they don't have an they don't have an obligation they would they would still have to comply with other that's not the way I read it in the law have you read that whole I've I've read it yeah um they would still have to comply with with other town bylaw they have the with the setbacks and everything well this this has its own setbacks prop that's what I'm saying there it has its own rules and regulations within it well the ones that are specifically dealt with in this um overlay District as such as um lot area and setbacks they're stated in the um in the proposed uh overlay District bylaw okay all right um that's it for me I'm still a little bit concerned about what you're saying 25% and 15% because if you look at North ring has almost 6,000 people they're at 750 we're at 3,000 we're still at 750 so I think that is a little um it's vague and again it's not a law that fits one one two fits all granted again granted um and again I can't say it enough I don't think it's a good law I think there's a lot of problems with it um and that's but what what this what we are suggesting is that we can be in compliance by doing this one zoning change and it's not going to add the 750 or whatever because of all the reasons we talked about I've I've negotiated for local 369 and uh sometimes you just have to stand into it and take it okay you thank you anyone else who has not yet spoken all right yes in the back Amy troop 10 Hillside a my question is for the current rep um I would love to know what bill number that is okay as I mentioned it's being drafted will be filed in January conveniently so it's convenient I'd be happy to share that information with you please email that to me because I would think that maybe you would have mentioned that in the debate or I think that you would have mentioned it tonight previously to seeing that this whole entire town is standing up versus you and versus the NBTA housing no I'm glad that I got to hear everybody but so you don't have a bill number is that correct I I don't want to uh uh John let's try to keep this let's try to keep this we're done I don't need that let's try this my next is to Senator Brady Senator Brady do you recall the time that I came to the Halifax Senior Center and sat down and talk talked to you about our problems with MBTA housing and a senior ovet district and I believe it was either May or June yes I remember you discussing things with me that day right so this was specifically about this so I I think earlier tonight you stated that you had never heard from any of these towns about that but you actually have well I apologize if I I remember you discussing things with me because I was meeting with seniors as well yeah and um we had hour and a half conversation and you seemed pretty understood um understanding about the fact that our town was in problems about it and I also would State the same for our rep I've sat with her I've made meetings and I've asked her to read subdivision control and go over certain things and she has done zero anyone else who has not yet spoken all right uh yes sir yes please just a couple first of all I appreciate every everybody on the board telling us where they stand because we all got to vote down the road and we we want to know that okay because it's critical because in leadership I'm Mak military and tell you we you got to take a stand you got to make a decision to do something and not go in the middle the issue here is we all know it's wrong we all know the governor came down heavy-handed on all of us okay and she's smiling up there right now CU she thinks she's got enough power up there to do do this so the issue is that might change so the issue to me is have we investigated our legal Avenues here with other towns and marketing team so that because this is political so the issue is here to make sure that we get out nationally and locally about the little town that could okay because make sure the governor in time of election is going to have to fight a lot of people on this issue but people are pissed and it's because you're telling us what to do you didn't come here and ask you didn't do that you come in going to do this cuz I'm big and bad well so aren't we and the issue is on this is that we want to make sure that everybody on here investigates our legal options now love it to be Thomas that does that because he's in favor of this okay and that would make sense and the issue is find out from a marketing team we go National on the political stage here because more towns are going to join as the word's getting out and hopefully on our Representatives so don't play the Democrat wheel here get in there and fight for the town that you're represent because you got more connections than probably most with the governor's office so you need to fight for this because it's not right for this town it's too big and you need to stand up for it so that's all I got to say and thank you for taking us thank you yep all right anyone else who has not yet spoken um all right [Applause] so okay I I what David miio 1610 uh two questions we we're looking for we're at risk for non-compliance for this grant for $1 million to redesign and construct an intersection of Route 58106 that's one thing yeah what did we just do to it 106 we just we just paid it we didn't we didn't we didn't redesign it the redesigning has redesign it for we just spent there sign okay you asked a question so I'm answering your question excuse me let me talk we just spent a bunch of money having the road reclaimed and resurfaced and we still having TL Edwards come out on top it correct that is correct yes so what do we need to do this one because we've heard from the residents of the town that they are concerned with all the traffic in that area and that the the intersection needs to be redesigned wait can you say that louder I'm not going to play the game you okay all right you're right you're right sorry now last question uh Senator Kathy can you explain to us what the what the low income housing act what type of housing what kind of people we're looking to put into it do I qualify by your opinion would I be able to qualify for that low-income housing so this is not low-income housing this is not no this is not this is not 40b this is a separate issue alog together this is the MBTA housing it you can and actually if if you zoned a property that was in compliance with this and uh the developers wanted to put in million doll condos that there's no prohibition against that and there's it's got nothing to do with the 40b so all right so anyone else who hasn't spoken or all right you in the back there you you want all right I mean look it is getting late so if we we' already gone through this we don't need to keep going but just a quick statement uh Eric again from Plymouth um guys please I can't hear please few hundred years ago a couple pages threw some tea in the water that was non-compliance with the Stamp Act what we need is some non-compliance with this ridiculous law just need a few Patriots to stand up and fight it's not compliance you're not going to give a couple grants this is a joke we're not facing like a firing squad he Patriots so so the whole point here is so that the town which gets to vote on this not us the town does has all of the information to make that decision Dees if the to agrees with you that's what we'll deal with if the town doesn't agree with you then that's what we'll deal with that's statement be Patriots thank you all right uh got one more here go ahead really quick quick I apologize um Mr Bruno you said um Highway and school are not affected as far as the funding goes correct say again Highway as far as as far as removal of funding highways and not affected no well to be state aid the as part of the annual budget for the the state budget that's approved would not be affected Chapter 70 chapter 90 other discretionary grants that could go to the schools or to the highway department may could be in Jeopardy but not the not the budget the state budget the state aid Chapter 70 chapter 90 correct um and I only asked because the gentleman from the state and he emphasized said all funding no he said that you said that I wrote it down well first of all I'm not from the state if I did I might have more money but um the discretionary Grant so there's a a long list here of sort of the ones that have been released so far I suppose the asterisk here would be there could potentially be more grants at risk later that aren't identified here so those would be discretionary discretionary funding that I don't have the answer today in terms of like what that could be just cuz you said all all discretionary grants okay yes discretionary because they're discretionary those state aid those aren't discretionary legislature passes the state budget there there's no discretion in that they say Halifax is going to get x amount of dollars there isn't discretion now they also uh pass Grant programs such as these that say we're going to give $10 million towards the municipal vulnerability preparedness plan Grant uh Grant and then that agency has discretion in distributing those so that's where the discretion could come thank you okay cge Road as a Regional Schools School District would be would we automatically be disqualified from any discretionary funds if we were to as a town collectively say no to this program would that automatically disqualify us from any Regional programs that we are currently enrolled in we don't have a question to that at this point I I don't believe so but again we don't have the an answer uh to that okay uh looks like we've pretty much run the course here everybody's just about left thank you for your uh questions thank you for paying attention you will get to vote on this in December and whatever decision the town makes Lial uh I'll take a motion to adjourn so moved we have a second second all those in favor I I oppos it's unanimous thank you [Music]