##VIDEO ID:vdglMhCWw8k## okay so the meeting uh I assume he's in there recording and thbs this is being recorded by area 58 first thing on our agenda is an executive session so I will move that we go into um executive session pursu to general laws chapter 38 section 21A to um discuss the following uh conduct strategy in preparation for negotiation with non union Personnel contract negotiations for ambulance billing and to uh address executive session minute executive session meeting minutes from August 27th September 3rd and September 10th do I have a second I'll second that uh Mr Pratt yes Mr SE yes I yes also we will come back back into a public session in the next half close we six all right we're going back into Open Session um did not do the Pledge of Allegiance so just saying Pledge of Allegiance IED Al to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you uh since we have uh no scheduled appointments but but we do have Miss putt am I saying that right Caitlyn putt here uh and you are our new conservation AG I want tell us about yourself yeah so um my name is Caitlyn putt um I'm new here I started last week um I came over from environmental Consulting so um I have the environmental background um uh new to conservation I'm really excited you know get my foot in the door and work for the town um I grew up next door in Bridgewater so working over there as well and so I know the area a little bit and I'm really excited to uh be on board with you guys fantastic have you met our conservation committee yet I met Allan um but I haven't had a chance to meet the rest of the committee tonight's her first meeting tonight she was meeting you guys first and she uh so Caitlyn will be with us on Tuesdays and Thursdays and like she mentioned she'll be in Bridgewater the other days we're splitting the position um 50 50 so um she'll have a lot of information to take in with both communities but I think it'll be mutually beneficial they'll they'll kind of get the experience she gains in Halifax and we will um benefit from the experience that she gets in Bridgewater um yeah so just wanted to have a in so you guys could introduce yourselves and does um do we um uh uh a training for the conservation agent is that done through us through Bridgewater or uh mutually we're doing it so there's some uh Conservation Commission for forces that Bridgewater setting up that Caitlyn's going to take uh but she's met with Allan to get on board here and Peggy our Administrative Assistant um is helping her get on board uh and then any sort of additional trainings mutually uh through Bridgewater and usse we'll take care of uh I have meetings with Bridgewater monthly to make sure it we're staying on top of us excellent good no welcome welcome welcome do you have any questions for us at all I don't think so no all right well I you'll it's a great town I mean Growing Up In bridgew You must be pretty familiar with Halifax so um our our open spaces and our and our environment is some of the the prettiest and best around so I'm excited to have you on board I think we've needed a conservation agent for quite some time so I hope you uh hope you enjoy your time here and you stay here for a long long time yeah really excited to be here yeah welcome aboard thank you yes and I would just like all those comments I hope your contribution is Meaningful and long lasting and I welcome you aboard thank you thanks for coming in say hello sure we'll see you luck thank you so much good luck Kaitlyn thank you thanks all right uh let's go up to the top and work our way down on the uh warrants and so on I move to affirm approval of the following warrant and commitment vendor warrant number 29 for $1,181 47 and ambulance commitments 920 9624 through 92224 for $ 71,543 second any discussion all those in favor say I I oppos unanimous I move to approve the following warrants and commitments payroll warrant number 30 for 46 $ 6, 916871 warrant number 31 for $133,500 school warrant number 32 for $116,000 99991 a withholding warrant number 33 9,648 52 Mobile Home Mobile Home Park Fee number 10 for 5,160 and ambulance commitments 9324 through 10624 for $143,600 second any discussion all those in favor say I I us okay very good um we have the uh uh request from the fire chief to um uh set new fees for the ambulance um and so I I think the he wants the middle one right yep so be the middle one okay all right so I'll make I'll make the motion uh that we set the uh ambulance fees as follows BLS emergency base rate $1,694 uh als1 emergency base rate $2,464 als2 emergency base rate $3,571 and mileage $39 second any discussion uh so this is a an increase from what has been but apparently we haven't raised these in five years six years six years so it's about time that we catch up a little bit okay um all those in favor I opposed she um we are down to the CPA the community preservation act says review and discuss I think we we talked about this last time and we were asked if the board would um support it and then we said we defer it till next week so yeah so I can jump in first if no one mind so I mean last time there was a motion um for the board of selectman to to approve this and I know that there a motion and then Jonathan abstained because of his involvement um so I was the one who jumped in so I can go first if that's okay the chair um so first I think that you know I think it's important to say that this this work is good work uh candy and her staff including Jonathan have put the time and effort in and I think it's a really worthwhile program um that on its own speaks for itself um I do have some concerns as I've kind of brought up both here and other forums as well um you know I think that the state's involvement since 2001 since its Inception has become one thing one thing that kind of strikes me is that there's been a $100,000 reduction in the CPA from 23 years ago my home when it was built was assessed at 472 we're up 44% now and the 100,000 is still the same that strikes me as a little odd the 100,000 is the is the reduction before the sear charge kicks in the exemption the reduction in exemption before the 1.5 kicks in the search charge but how the the whole housing issue of sad which is another one of my things that strikes me as odd my biggest thing and the reason I will I will I will vote no um as a recommendation and I realize I'm outvoted here which I respect because on its own the CPA is a worthwhile program one that should have been passed 25 years ago quite frankly we've left so much money on the table and that's unfortunate but in today's day when the price of gas oil home insurance everything is up this just feels like one more thing and while the average taxpayer for $88 doesn't feel that something struck me a couple months ago when John said that you know we're not voting ourselves we're voting we're charged with voting a representative of the Town um the average taxpayer can afford it not everyone can and I just feel like it's one more thing thing over the head of an average taxpayer um so if money was no object and this wasn't about the average wallet of of mom and dad I would vote Yes my daughter's dance lessons cost $76 a month gymnastics for each of my kids cost $12 a month so if I'm voting to preserve other things or support the parent who has active school children and it's one more thing I'm going to vote um to put in the in the wallets of parents to decide how they spend it rather than force it on them so respectfully with all due measure to the work that candy and you and everyone else put in which is tireless and thankless work um I will be a no vote on this not because I don't believe in the Merit of the operation but because I believe I'm being charged with representing the town and the average taxpayer and and that's where my vote Falls okay um so you're going to abstain you I'm going to abstain just because I obviously I've been involved uh with the committee work um Tom brings up valid points um the one thing I would counter on that one Tom is they do have income exemptions so if there's a family or a group of of folks that are truly truly can't make their payment they're not going to pay um so so to say for folks that uh you know there's folks out there that really really can't pay it well if they truly can't pay it they're not going to have to pay because of the exemption anyway um and again for me the Big Driver of this is is open space uh I think it's a huge hot button Topic in our town right now um I I I just feel like it's our duty it's our charge to to preserve the town of Halifax and it should be one of our utmost priorities um but again everybody has their own opinion and and uh you know I have to respect what you what you decide and I Echo those SS I respect where you're coming from and I don't disagree with any of its Merit I mean the tennis courts the basketball courts all the open space the trails the blacksmith Museum all of those things that were on the table that Candi spoke of are valid good reasons to support the CPA and and I just hope and and I don't want this to sound like a threat or anything like that but I just hope that the folks that that aren't for CPA two three four years down the road where our town starts to change and we could have used CPA to help avoid some of that change that they understand we had a chance to to do something thing about it also valid so I've already uh stated my position both um last spring we voted on this and also uh written a letter in support to the uh local newspaper so I I am in favor of it um I do think um it's a I mean I completely get the uh the tax problem it's we pay a lot in taxes we do um I think everybody in this state pays a lot in taxes um but I also think that uh in at least in my view of this that this is sort of like um putting money aside for uh you know for a retirement account or for a new car for something like that it's it's putting that money aside and then somebody matches it and I think I think in the long run it's it's good it's a good thing to do um and I mean whether whether someone wants to vote for it or not as you say uh that is entirely I mean I don't I don't object to it one way or another you don't you don't think you want to pay anymore or you don't think you can afford to pay anymore you shouldn't vote for it I agree with that 100% yeah the only thing I'd say and just you know kind of wrapping up my thoughts on it is it's not so much if I fall below a threshold where I don't have to pay it is do I am I do I make enough money and it's I can't do the dance I can't sign up for karate I can't do this because it's $88 and $88 is not a lot of money I think we can all agree on that in the grand scheme of things 40 two payments of $44 but if it's it's it just feels like one more thing for some people um and that's the most basic way to think say what I think okay um I think unless um unless you won't be evolved but unless you disagree I'm just not going to put a motion on the table unless you want me to and you want to vote no no I'm okay I'm okay okay all right so well I just I had put a motion on before took it back and we'll just we'll just leave it as but I would say I would encourage you if you'd like to if you'd like to withdraw your no vote I have no problem with you supporting it for the work that you've done I don't have an issue with that this is not a personal thing between three of us get it and it's not that I don't think you should support it because you put so much time in I don't know that you necessarily need to recuse yourself that's what I'm saying if you feel that if you feel like you should I have no issue I I don't know it's a it's a tough call um I think I can be fair and impartial on that decision but I am you know full disclosure I am on that committee so um I don't know if I feel comfortable okay I like I said I think I think we can um if they asked us to um vote in favor of it um we're just not taking it up at this point we have just you know people in just just different opinions and all valid no complaint so I'm not going to argue that but um I don't I don't see any reason why we should go any further than this and like I said I me personally I've already uh stated my position um I know you have yours and you know so we everybody knows where we all stand so that's good good all right uh thank you for that thank you for very uh thoughtful uh response to that whole thing um owners project contract owners yes so this is uh phenomenal news and great progress towards our new counil on Aging uh you may recall several months ago you approved the procurement for the owner's project manager we issued that procurement uh we received a a bit a proposal from colier uh project managers the way an RFP or an RFQ Works um with the procurement process for a project manager is any public um building project in Massachusetts over $1.5 million you have to hire what's called an owner's project manager um usually they're an engineer they have to be certified through dcam through the state of Massachusetts as a certified project manager you have to bid that out we did that we got this proposal from Colliers they do not provide well they do provide a um a price proposal but it's separated so so when we get the proposal first we're basing it on Merit so we can just identify the best candidate for the job and then you review the price proposals afterwards because the idea is you want the best candidate and then you work with the price proposals um callers was the only proposal uh I think part of it is the size of the project this is relatively a small public building project at you know $3 to4 million um most public building projects are 20 plus million so project managers have the opportunity they're going for the larger projects because their their pay is larger um A good rule of thumb for a pro an owner project manager is around 10% of the total project costs so we um callers came in provided a presentation to the uh Municipal School building committee who is going to be the building committee for this project uh they were um I thought it was a a great presentation they thought they'd be good uh project managers for this so we asked them for a price proposal uh they came in at a maximum of $220,000 for the total project which is it's it's quite reasonable actually um so uh before you is the contract the draft contract with Colliers I will note there's been one change from the version that was sent to you uh and the only and that is just in the termination clause in reviewing with Council we we um added it in so there's no 20% uh fee that we would pay so if we terminate the contract there's no fee that we would pay we would pay them for the work that they've completed but they wouldn't be entitled to add addition that's on 6.1 is that right it is correct yeah okay um so you want us to um approve the contract I would request that you approve the contract and allow me to sign it's an electronic signature I have to do um online on your the the proposed timeline at this point would be we get the contract um signed they would begin the procurement to get an architect uh an engineer on board for the design aspect of it uh they would work through probably you know mid November to do that we would select a designer at that point that would be another contract that the board would award um the design would occur through early 2025 likely into June July of 2025 we would then look to construction as long as it aligns with Thorn diyes which it looks like it's going to uh sometime in late summer of 2025 and then the actual construction would occur um you know in into 2026 with the goal of being in the Council on agent by the end of 2026 early 2027 okay um any questions from the board and comments no it it uh it looks it looks like a pretty solid contract from what I can see okay uh we have a motion to approve the contract I'll make a motion to approve the contract with uh call your for our owner's project manager uh for the Thorndike development project we have a second second any discussion on that no and I uh could I make an amendment to allow uh Town Administrator Cody Hadad uh for Signature Authority so also second okay all right um so there being no discussion all those in favor say I I oppos it's unanimous good work excellent okay whole Colony Metropolitan planning local signatory so this is something we just put on the agenda you don't have to do this um as part of us being in the uh as part of Old Colony planning Council there's the Old Colony Metropolitan planning organization which has representatives from Old Colony planning Council um so basically this is just asking if the town would like to nominate someone to potentially be on this committee I think there's two individuals with towns under 10,000 people um but again if no one's interested and there's no guarantee even if you are nominated that you get on because this is all the towns in the region um but if someone is really interested and and is thinks that they would um serve this role well we can you could vote to nominate someone one of you guys to serve on this what what do they do they serve um as so they would oversee the let see the tip I think it is let me just pull up the make sure I have the correct information here um yeah so they they reviewed the transportation Improvement program which is what the state mot ends up using for projects that are coming forward um and that basically that's that's the main thing they do and then that federal funds then cycle through that um to fund a lot of those projects um they do long range transportation planning for the region and unified planning work Group which budgets Old Colony planning council's Transportation Planning task so kind of sets the broad agenda for the Region's Transportation goals so like I said the biggest thing is the tip every region has a transportation Improvement plan in work in the work to MK do um in like some of our any any state M do project if it's going to be approved has to be on the tip but what I can tell you from experience is if something's on the tip even for 2025 all of the times you get to 2025 and then well this project that was there for 2028 actually you know uh there was a a pedestrian um who maybe got hit by a car so we're going to bump that up to 2025 and your Project's going to get bumped up to 28 so it's it's kind of a a working plan and it's a regional thing right specific to us it's not so we're part of it but it ends up being the uh Secretary of uh mot the administrator of uh the highway division the president of Old Colony planning Council the Brockton area transit authority administrator the mayor of Brockton the chief elected official in Plymouth and then two other designes from the region which is what this nomination would be for is one of those two other designes okay anybody interested I I don't I'll full disclosure I don't I wouldn't have the scope to to take this on the bandwidth to take that on right now I don't I really don't have that interest in it either so I don't think I would but I I'll pass given the new government study uh all right so we'll just uh we'll just let that slide sometimes these things end up being you go to meetings for the sake of go to meetings you know and um this one I mean I don't really know but that seems like to be kind of the case here so all right uh board s meeting minutes from September 3rd just need the state election warrant yeah and the warrant too e letter e right over there the big one actually one glasses the whole time so this is this is just the uh election warrant for November uh election it's just protocol the board approves it I have six copies here as long as you approve it we need your signatures uh all of them we sign them you do yeah I do no yeah okay all right um I'll make a motion that we approve the election warrant for November second second any discussion no all those in favor say I I it's unanimous now uh select meeting minutes um so I'll make a motion that we approve the September 3rd 2024 meeting minutes I'll make a second on that one right any discussion all those in favor say hi hi hi uh updates on Town Administrator and ndta action plan yes nbca we have our big public forum on Thursday uh in the Great Hall 6 PM that will start um we have a I think a really good agenda in conjunction with Old Colony planning Council uh representative latra and Senator Brady will also be uh in attendance to answer questions and represent the region uh like I said Old Colony planning Council has a great presentation to get the uh factual information out about the 3A requirement and then we will go into a few slides on what we are proposing here in Halifax on a particular level of some mapping you'll be handouts uh we are requesting that anyone who wishes to speak we're going to have a signup sheet uh in the meeting that we will ask individuals to sign up and then we'll go through that list uh and then if there's time we'll take more we we are planning to kind of uh um go until around 7:30 that's a little bit flexible uh but that's that's what we plan on cutting off at this point and this really is going to start the public engagement process of all the zoning changes which the NBTA zoning is wanted this is a u um Forum uh is our board is this board sponsoring it or is it just I think really sponsored by the town you the board is certainly voted to recommend it to the town meeting so it's being sponsored by the board and then the zoning B sure you guys were all right with that was it posted did we post it oh yeah yeah okay okay I mean it we're all I mean the board the board sponsoring it as well as a subcommittee is sponsoring but I just want you guys to be make sure you're aware of that and comfortable with it right I that we're recommending that the meeting happen and put it forward the town meeting what we're recommend yeah yeah so the the whole the whole purpose of the public forum is not really to debate anything it's it's public it's inform informational on both ends so we have uh like Cody said um we do have I'm guessing about a half hour uh of explanation as to you know what is the MBTA requirements what is uh what is our our proposed um uh solution uh and um then we are fortunate to have both representative latra and Senator Brady we've been after them for two years to that will be there and they will both uh said that they would like to make a few comments so uh then after that the other thing would be the information will come in the other way so for whatever the audience wants to know or has comments about that we can um incorporate that into whatever we're going to end up doing I guess yeah that's my question is what is what do you see John as the board's role in that meeting Thursday yes um really um other than sponsoring it nothing um I mean I I I plan to moderate it myself um in um kind of like we do all the other ones and just to keep it just to keep the flow going okay that's really the only important and and again it's not we're not trying to persuade anybody on anything with this but we I I think it I think it's our responsibility uh as the chief elected officers to um address a problem and to provide a potential solution whether the town votes for it or not that's that's a whole different matter but I think they should give the information okay and see that I just want to I'm glad you brought that up I just wanted to clarify our role collectively was to put it to do something which you guys did and put it before town meeting correct unilaterally it's not for us to support it individually it's for us to put it in front of the voters that's right to comply with state regulations right and so um yeah and and as I see it that's absolutely right I just think as um the other way of handling it would have been just to turn your head and look the other way which would have been which I think would have been irresponsible as our role whether one of us says you know I still think it's a bad idea I'm going to vote against it that's perfectly fine but at least we know at least we have addressed it come up with what we think is a solution and um explaining you know how we got how and why we got there I wholeheartedly agree with that 100% I just want to clarify that the other the only comment I'd have on that is I I did read the literature that uh was fored uh I did read the literature that was fored I just it was um the question answer answer SE I think this is going to be a pretty heavily attended meeting and I would just recommend to the extent that it's appropriate whether you're moderating or elected officials are allow allowing it I would allow a little leeway on questions I think some of the questions will be leading and not necessarily argumentative but maybe opposing and I I think it would be wise from our standpoint looking forward to December to allow a little bit um of opposition so um not to take it just to respond to the questions so are the way I run a meeting like that uh is uh I give everybody one of the the good thing about having a signup sheet is uh and we'll announce this early and often if you sign up on the sign up sheet I'll just go down write down the list so who the first guy to sign up he gets to talk first and write down the list and then um you know somebody wants to come back after we've gone through the list and they somebody else because you know once to come back again then yeah we'll give you that opportunity obviously you have to be careful you don't want somebody to try to control the meeting by talking too much so that's that's just a hopefully that doesn't happen but outside of that uh what this is is an informational thing so if members of the audience want to tell us it's a bad idea go right ahead and tell us that and tell us why and then you know okay maybe we can answer your question maybe we can't I don't I'm glad to hear that because I I looking at the the draft that was sent and that's not the gist of what I got what are you looking um not sure why that was sent honestly it shouldn't have been sent to you guys but um okay but I can the goal of the meeting is to provide information not to debate whether we should adopt it or not I understand then that's where I'm that's my question my previous question comes from I think you're going to get people there that want a debate yes and if you shut them off I think you're you're asking for a little bit more of a difficult situation than you might reasonably expect and if we have representative lra's attention and Senator Brady's attention and at Full House I think you're going to get the opposition and if you shut him down which is what we're looking at I think you're going to have a problem shut them down but you know what I wouldn't do so the way I think to handle uh a meeting like that is uh a lot likely would hand like like would handle town meeting so Fred stands up and he says you know I want to know this that and the other thing I I don't allow I don't want him to debate with Senator Brady I don't want him to debate with you I wanted him to ask me that question then we will find answer go from there because I think what happens if you don't do that is it escalates you get people jumping up all over the place to argue things they say wait wait a minute what about this what about that and then it gets out of control and I don't want to I'm not talking about when I talk about out of control all I mean is that I'm not trying to direct anything but I'm trying to keep it as a a civil discourse you know that's really what I want and I think I agree with you you know I mean obviously the sign's all over the place now but I also think that um the um there's a disconnect between what uh what will be on the warrant and what people are mad about so only thing that's what what is not going to be on the warrant and would never be on the warrant is do we uh approve of 3A that's this hand you know do does does Halifax approve of it or do we turn it down but we don't have that ability anyway right that's a state legislature attorney general whoever um what will be on the warrant is a zoning change and we'll explain why that zoning change should be done driven by requirements of 3A but you know we could make the zoning change even without 3A if we wanted to it's not that so I understand I'm just trying to draw attention to the fact that I think that if you just unilaterally shut the mics off on the people who are going to be in the room I I've never done that and I'm not saying you I'm just commenting that I think it's going to be pretty well attended and oh it'll and pretty and pretty contentious and reading the pre-printed guidelines a lot of those people won't like that and it w it won't go well trying to avoid that we'll try to do the best we can uh and that that's the only way I could do it and I think again you know the whole the whole concept here is um this is really for for for information we can because because we just we decide that we're going to debate it on Thursday night that doesn't resolve the issue it has to be debated in meeting right that that's when people are going to make a vote right now you're not voting on anything we're just telling you we're just telling you this is what it is what do you say that kind of thing and to be fair uh there are potentially you know some things that can be changed you know if if uh somebody comes up with a with a better idea on say the bylaw part of it for example uh cuz there are things in there would maybe would Al be we could change it we still have time to do that and now's the time to talk about those kind of things but you know if you if and I'm sure there are a lot of people like that that are just adamantly mad at the state legislature for even insisting on this okay but at least at least you understand why we're doing what we're doing that's that's that's to me that's the only thing we can that I can do and I think again I think it would be irresponsible on the part of the executive arm of the government here uh not to at least look at the problem and see if we can come up with a solution that's good for halifa now it may not it may not solve somebody's political agenda right because I think there's a lot of that too but well which we've done we we voted that we voted that the bylaw you know we did that as elect body yeah I mean I don't that's fine if people want to make a statement that's fine just understand what they what they're what they're deciding on and that's really important part so okay uh any other Town administrative updates uh yes we were informed a few weeks ago that we received a $221,000 green communities Grant that's going to take care of um some heating and AC concerns here at Town Hall some uh hbac concerns at the police department uh weatherization of several buildings uh a lot of which would have been Capital items if we didn't get this grant so um that that's great news kudos to Kathy sing or energy manager we're working on behalf of the elementary school committees uh Kingston and Halifax to submit an efficiency and regionalization uh Grant to uh explore the idea of full regionalization so uh the school committee voted to topic all this is is just a grant to to study it you know that's all it would do so uh myself and the Town Administrator from Kingston are working on that we're hoping to have that submitted um either tomorrow or Thursday morning uh we got some interesting news on our chargers outside that the company that the town had selected a few years ago is leaving the north uh the North American region so those Chargers will be um rendered useless as of Friday but luckily Kathy Stanley has been on it and she's looking at uh some Alternatives so there's no um uh no issues considering we have two electric vehicles here at town hall for instance um it's interesting because the the charers that were installed were on a list that D gave us that we had to utilize and less than 3 years later here they are leading thank you D North americ Market but uh on the on that same tener uh the work to install the fast charges over at the Hops playground parking L parking lot is uh likely to start in mid October it'll take a couple days and those will be up in operational though W um so that's good news and that's a $300,000 project that's crossing the town absolutely nothing um and that is pretty much we have Caitlyn our new conservation agent getting on boarded we're still looking for a town accountant that knows anyone um but Bill and Eric have been doing a phenomenal job along with Lindsay our assistant Town County and we'll be on October 22nd the finance committee will be coming in for a joint meeting uh to kick off the budget season so we'll have a draft budget memo talk about um how we want to start budgeting for FY 26 and just a kickoff meeting with them and you'll notice town hall is Pink Breast Cancer Awareness Month um on the kickoff uh discussion so um I like to make these things as efficient as possible um do we have um do we have before that sorry numbers of some sort that we can use to make decisions not decision recommendation uh no you're not making financial decisions at this meeting you're really making uh so we issue a budget memo every year of how our departments you know what would they should how they should prepare budgets um so you'll have a memorandum from me that has a is a draft of the of the meal that I plan to send out and you can provide feedback um it's going to look you know based on my financial projections uh it's going to be a very challenging year so uh the proposal is going to be exactly what we did last year to have Department submit a uh level service budget which means you increase where needed to keep your services where they are now and then also a a budget where you where you have to make a 10% cut where would you make that cut and what would the impacts be to your department just in case we have to utilize those cuts we can we already have that done uh and the good thing was last year our departments did a phenomenal job of doing that exercise so this will really be um another year of doing that they have a little bit more experience and can identify what the impacts to their Department would be and where they would be least impactful um as far as actual numbers you know at I can give you an idea of what our Revenue will be and what you know estimating and what I'm estimating our expenses to be that the challenge is you know over 50% of our budget comes from the school and they don't give us any idea of what they're looking at until January um so I mean I have my projections what what I believe they're going to come in with so I can provide you with that um I can provide you with just a general Financial picture where I think things will be the reason I asked is because I done this numerous times it seems like it's the same pretty much the same letter every year that goes out um you know level funder Services we very rarely say we're going to increase everything by 5% or something like that it's always level what's a level funded budget look like and what are the cuts if you have to make them it's it doesn't it doesn't seem to change from year to year to year to year um the only time it I can think of that we had something a little bit different was maybe two years ago where we uh made a conscious decision to to um uh increase the wage rate and say that's going to be our priority but the reason I ask you that question is is there a priority like that uh this year or is it just that standard kind of uh well I I mean to be to be frank I think we're going to have to start talking what the board's tenor with the finance committee is um financially what you want to do because I in our projections and I'll get into this more in that meeting I do not see a scenario where to present that balance budget to top un without noiz or significant CS so that's that's really going to be the talking point of the meeting where where does where do we want to go um and and part of that is is departments um you know doing those 10% Cuts or or potentially more right for in those scenarios um doing multiple budgets where we say let's like I kind of said where we do a level service see where things are and then maybe there's an appetite to move forward with with potential um you know override or is that completely off the table and you know make it a Balan budget and if that means 15% Cuts that's what we want to see from departments just a a guide because this year is going to be much more challenging for a number of reasons you know that I can get into but um New Growth being stunted uh the rising school cost the schools last year used one-time funds to to supplement their budget which helped them through last year that creates a fiscal cliff this year and um on top of whatever increase they're going to see at you know average 3% um and that's without anything on the town side those onetime funds have to be made up somewhere yeah so again just talking out loud to you guys more than anything else but uh it it may behoove us I don't know uh something to think about is there are there any sacred cows anything that you would not touch anything you don't want to ever change is there anything that has to be protected uh or uh that's one way of looking at things another way is to say you know just flat across you know everybody gets a haircut we all get the same haircut and do it with it and get can it's the kind of things that you might want to think about because that's really the decision that we need to make you know it's not in terms of the budget to be presented I don't see an override I I just don't see that we can't get through the CPA no an override gonna happen I guarantee you an operational override I don't think I would support it I really don't I don't think I ever have uh I mean have on capital projects and so on and that's a good use of the override but I just operationally operationalises that's the information we want to get because that that gives me guidance to give departments guidance so you know if we're going in based on projections looking at a million dollar deficit you know I can say okay we're going to have to 10% isn't going to be enough for instance maybe I'm throwing out numbers hypotheticals at this point um we'll get into more of the actuals the kickoff meeting but that's the feedback that I'm looking for the budget memo that I can then send out to all of our departments so they can take that prepare budgets and then work with the finance committee over the next you know four months five months to really work on that and bring that in but an overall um where where where where do we must be so in in meeting I think that that could be the agenda more um not just not just that flat not just that same letter that I've seen a 100 times you know what's an what's a level funding budget what's level service budget and then what's a 10% it's I think the discussion has could be deeper than that we changed it significantly last year when I got here we changed it quite a bit process conceptually it's more or less the same I I agree with you yeah uh no it's much better than it has been but but it just I hear again like I've heard it for a long time okay what's what's your level Services budget look like which is always some sort of increase and there what you reduce one but do we need to think about um do we need to think about priorities maybe I don't know you know I I again I I I can't proce myself ever voting for an operation over I just don't see it so have to wa within our tax rate and I really don't see it getting past Val I just don't so anyway yeah no that's the meeting it's just general guidance and a kickoff to the budget season you're not making any financial decisions it's more just what what's the what are you guys thinking where where do we want to go as our department start to prepare these budgets because if it's if I think we're one way and you guys are totally the other way I don't want to you know come in January February and say oh we need to restart this process so kick it off early make sure we're all on the same pitch I to dovetail with John said I think when we went over our selectman goals one of them was was to present a budget that stays within our our 22% as best we can you know and I I do agree John I don't I think even if we presented one to the community I I have you know little little idea that it would an operational one as you say something for a big project yes but an operational override I don't see and that's important because you guys are the only one that can put an override on the ballot there is no other group body in town that can put the selectman you know school committee can't you guys are the ones that put on ride um so like I said that's that's very important because if we're looking at a huge operational deficit we need to know okay what you know where are we making the cuts or you know where can we work with departments to make those cuts the least impactful to the residents and making sure the residents know you this is a budget it's within the tax base um and these are the cuts that that we're making this is going to change the fire departments going to cut down to this many people the you know Police Department is going to cut down to this not swaying one way or the other just letting people know that these are the decisions that we're making based on the feedback that we're getting sure this is all being recorded so if anybody has a different opinion about operational over I'm all ear but I don't foresee that happening so the last override I that I can remember was for the Silver Lake fulltime full-time fire I think from what I heard oh when we went full-time with our fire Department years ago I I don't have an exact date but oh no that's that's that's really that's operational the silver operational saying Lake was Capital whenever we built Silver Lake oh yeah yeah yeah but I mean for an operational yeah override right yeah like '90s or since then I don't I don't remember the date I just remember talking with someone back in 1990s sometime I think it was that far back yeah but there are few and far between here y yeah anywhere frankly anywhere in the state they're very unusual it it's also worth mentioning John that we're not we're not the uh the exception here in Halifax as far as the financial picture goes um Cody how many you said how many override towns are there uh of my peers we have a group going there's looking at of like it's almost 50% of communities are looking at an over an operational override either fiscal 26 or fiscal 27 and just because you know particularly in towns like Halifax New Growth is very limited so and most of our money comes from the tax base so it's a 2 and a half% increase every year to cover your cost you all know things are going up a lot more than 2 and a half% annually so you you can cover it for some period of time but at some point you can't continue to cover it because 2 and half% increase but you know 5% annual increases and your cost doesn't add up um so we're not in it alone but yeah but whatever the decision in the town wants to do we we'll make it work okay is that it for our agenda that is it uh maybe else you got Fred here oh I'm sorry Fred my point at this point is that what I've been noticing not just with the select board meetings but with all board meetings they finish their agenda which is what they're supposed to be doing and then they go to close the meeting and nobody has addressed the attendees and I think that to be on the open and above boards that people are attending these meetings whether it's me or a dozen people that one of the last things that should be in my opinion is do we have any comments or do we have any discussion from the audience okay I think just so that the people who do attend realize that they have a chance to speak okay because otherwise in that the motion hits the floor meeting's over see you later Outdoors goodbye okay the second thing that I have just as a quick thought listening to the fact of the public forum and I agree I think there's going to be a pretty good crowd in that great room and because you're having a sign in list in my opinion I think you also ought to state that you may stress your point when your turn comes up but you have a two-minute time limit because anybody who's stressing their point can get their point across speaking in two minutes I haven't been speaking two minutes yet okay so their point can get across rather than rehashing rehashing re reaying everything else just by saying you know whether you put one minute 2 minute 3 minute time just so that the people that are responding who may not be used to speaking at public meetings know that wait a minute get your facts down address us with your objections or your appraisal whatever you're doing and set out you know get this thing done good point I want um I do want to comment on the first point though um some towns actually have a uh an open session typically be the beginning of a meeting or something like that um it it it is frankly a very bad idea because uh there's some recent um law out of the state supreme court that says any if you do that anybody can come in and basically say anything they want about anything and even to the point of of defamation and slander and everything else a there was a case right on point and I I just think it is a uh a real o opportunity for chaos uh now if somebody wants to speak on an agenda item bless you God bless you God bless you then absolutely I'm glad to hear them you know we're on an agenda item or if somebody wants to um come to once a meeting uh once our once our uh our committee or whatever committee to address an issue then ask to be put on the agenda and then we we we can deal with that issue but if you just open it up um I can't think of the name of the case you know I can't call I've read it it's it's frankly scary if you're on the commit on the board side just because there you can't control there's no control board so it's just it's just that's an open session I don't agree with at all I do 100% agree with if somebody wants to speak to an agenda item absolutely so thank you John Baron vers colen there you go yeah just read it if you want to be scared basically in that case somebody set up and he started harassing I think it was a selectman or something they calling him a Nazi and calling him this and call him that and he tried to shut him up and he said he had the right to do it they said he could stay there all night long and do it if he wanted to so what's the difference between that in a public in a public in a public hearing you have you have the opinion to shut them off when in a public open session you don't if you have if you have a uh just an open session just an open open in in a public hearing right I mean a regular meeting but at some towns Kingston used to I don't know if they still do but they will have like okay for the first half hour anybody can come in and tell us anything they want right so it just it I just think it's bad practice it kills the efficiency of the board um and it it also U just leads US Open to uh real real problems trying to control so it's just not it's not it's not a good practice but to answer your question there's been three operational overrides that have been successful in Halifax most recently in fiscal year 2006 for $300,000 for hiring of four firefighters prior to that it was fiscal 2003 the amount of 366,000 to fund Silver Lake and then prior to that it was 1992 to fund the elementary school budget at the amount of $124,000 we haven't done we haven't done an operational in 18 years few and far in between has not to make you do more work but has it ever come under the ballot and been refused or was that those those the accepted ones or those are the only accepted ones there's a list here of like 12 that have not that have lost since then no no no the most recent one was fiscal 2006 which that one passed nothing nothing on the ballot nothing even approaching the other ones were um 2006 2005 2003 '92 there were several in 1992 several in 1991 and several in one in 1990 okay um motion to adjourn so moved second second any discussion in favor say everybody on thank you Fred thank you Fred thanks for coming