##VIDEO ID:70p4zZ3_kjo## [Music] good evening being 7 p.m. I'm going to call the November 26 24 uh Conservation Commission meeting into order um we have all members present um I want to make an announcement that this meeting is going to be um taped for area 58 and can be you viewed on YouTube our first order of business tonight is a continued hearing for 285 P Street it's a storm water management hearing m y i who wants to speak miss too close good evening and so bless count we have the applicant um so we were here at the last meeting um we had proposed a storm water management system that had been reviewed by the commission's review engineer we appeared that the commission members had some additional comments with respect to the system so we made some minor changes to the plan in response to those comments um specifically there was comments about the form of catch basins that were being used so we have proposed um to remove the catch basins that were present were in replacing them with um a solid catch Basin there was um some discussion about uh the spillway that was originally on the plan the highway commissioner did not want the spillway there so we have removed the spillway as it currently stands um the plan is compliant with the commission's regulations we submitted these additional minor changes to uh the commission's review engineer via discussion before we finalized them he did not have any further comments on them so we finalized them and submitted them to the board and I will let Jim give a little bit more detailed information and good evening I'm Jim pavick with fuss and O'Neal on behalf of the applicant and so yes so we um and pretty much summarized it um I can show you specifically some of the changes that we we did please do because I do have some comments on that okay um so again there was a question about uh spill boy can't touch it I have a remote if it's easier to that'll through here we go I won't touch it um so we had a a grass Spillway at this location heading out to home street it was an overflow Spillway for this infiltration Basin so that was removed um that we had discussed that at the last area and um we just we just added notes to clarify that the spillway from this infiltration Basin is a grass Spillway and it will be directed to the cetch Basin um we had previously proposed to use the existing reach and catch basins that were on site and as and mentioned those are going to be removed now we've provided we provided for a um sediment 4 Bay two inlets to replace those two catch basins um so this will allow sediment from the runoff to be trapped and to then flow into the basins and there was a third Lee and catch Basin here we're going to just use as a manhole and providing two uh new catch basins uh due to the amount of runoff um so that's going to be uh those two catch basins would be directed to that manhole and then into the Basin and we've added notes to clarify that um this infiltration Basin it's is at a low point in this area so it's really capturing runoff from the corner of the building based on on the topography so the runoff from this side is directed to these catch basins the runoff from that side will will go flow into that infiltration Basin and um so those are the primary changes um and um we added the soil logs to the plan we had talked about that during the on-site um visit and um see and we added notes to clarify that the existing gravel area is going to remain um so we added notes that there's no proposed paved areas it's all the existing gravel to remain so those those are essentially the the changes that have been made yeah and if I if I can just clarify so identify yourself again so if I could just clarify at the site visit there was a there was a question about whether the parking areas were going to be paved and so the note that Jim was just mentioning clarifies that no we're not planning on Paving any of the parking areas they're remaining in the gravel condition and I think the only other point to to mention is as a result of the change that Jim has made this site will now contain all of the runoff from a hundred-year storm event which is not something that most projects are designed to do it's not a typical requirement that a property contain all of the runoff from a hundred-year storm but this one will so that was um one of the significant uh effects of eliminating that spway it's it's basically containing all of this the runoff within the 4 Bay and there might be a little puddle in the low point there but uh it's essentially all going to be contained on site okay I have some questions and I'm going to open it up to the board um I had a point of it I don't know what the're two catch Bas that you you're proposing you can go back to the next page you're proposing two catch basins in the center of the building I calculated that in order for the airl on the North side it's going to have to travel somewhere around 100 ft down to that other Basin Basin number two my M if my remember is correct Basin number two is the top Basin yes so you want the effluent to travel from where the catch Basin is in the middle of the building all the way around to that Basin any overflow is that correct assumption no um again this is the drainage design uh the drainage divide right here at this corner of the building so runoff from the back of the site would be directed to these two catch basins and otherwise it's just this small area that's going to be captured in that Basin okay I'm probably not going to agree because if you point to that line with the catch Basin I think that's a 72 or 75 Contour so it's relatively flat going on that side you've got all the where you get your trees planted it looks like all the affluent from where those trees planted are going to go down and pick up into that other Basin I don't see any spot elevations or any grading Contours that direct any eff from the backyard those Pati unless I'm missing something that's a is that a 75 Contour that's there yes is yes that's a 75 contour and that Contour goes on around so how are you directing your water flow that 75 Contour um again water flows downhill so it's going to flow perpendicular to these Contours and at this point the water would go towards that Basin and anything to the uh south of this line would flow to these okay so basically what you just said on the North side from the 75 conour so you're going to have untreated water going into the infiltration Basin um to say that it's untreated it's not a paved surface so there's no requirement for providing pre-treatment if you will for for non um paved surfaces there's there's clearly a history that the water the influent is traveling very quickly down through the North side of that and out on to Route 36 I don't see personally that your proposed Contours would eliminate that this is going to be a low point so runoff from here is going to flow into that Basin so you're saying that you don't need to treat the water in that small area that's going into the Basin that doesn't have to go into another Basin deep sum to okay for sedimentation control okay and on the other side I think I calculated that from catch basing number six from catch basing five and six if the water misses that it's going to travel about 220 ft down the catch Bas number one is that a fair statement yeah these this is at a low point with the ridge through here and another low point Point here where this where these two existing reach and catch basins were so um yeah there's there's a drainage divide in here I don't see that on the Contour I don't see the ridge from the Contour I'm looking at your plan so typically I don't see a contour line that would direct that water from the backyard to go theas I think the these These are 1ot Contours so when when you go to the site that's how it actually is um we could have shown spot elevations but that's exactly how it is there's two low points in this area and um so anything bypassing this low area would travel to this uh catch Basin and be captured there okay so I don't see it based on the elevations that's but there could be spot elevations added but is how it is in the in the yeah it wouldn't necessarily be spot elevations cuz spot elevations are existing elevations we need proposed elevations to make sure that you got a large area back there that you're having you know that's got to be 50,000 ft of area that that's going into them tuations and it's sand I I I don't I personally don't see that I just see the area going flat and running straight down to the back of the building and that's based on the elevations on the plane so this building is at elevation 75.2 the catch basins are proposed at 74.4 M so it's 8/10 of a foot away from the building to those two catch basins and all of this topography it's all flowing to those two so so the building is a little bit higher and those two catch Basin that are at point I think that the issue is the water coming from the rear yard there's nothing going to come from the building and I know you got the 8/10 there which is fine um okay so they're creating a low point they're at a low Point you're at a low point but you've got your north side that it travels down um into the other Basin on the south side if it misses that Basin which is number five or six I can't see it from here if it misses five or six it's going to travel a couple hundred feet down to pick up catch Basin number one um no the the this kind of a ridge in this area and so these two sediment four Bays where they our existing catch basins now at low points would is where the runoff is going to go but the existing cat SPS are coming out I want to complicate this so they they're coming out right so we're creating a low Point as a Swale like feature those will be at the low point I don't see that prop any I don't see any proposed elevations on there maybe that's what my problem is if you had proposed elevations then obviously they're going to have to grade to that and you could shape the rear yard so that everything goes to the Bas I just don't see any proposed elevations we're not we're not looking to change the proposed or the existing grads U my next question is um you didn't request this is going to be your final plan I just want to make sure that okay um I didn't see any wer request to reuse cetch Bas number four um also in some of your detail uh you're asking to re use one of those basins is it four or five you want to reuse one there okay um your plan Tock Stone under it so I think you basically said you want to clean it but we do we don't know what's underneath it I me you have plan shows that the 6 in or a foot of stone underneath but and there's no way to use that one okay it's not going to be a catch Bas it's going to be a manhole just a a Connect in point to pipe those two proposed catch basins to it okay so that's not a it's not a catch Basin but in your detail you're showing you're showing leing pits with stone underneath and you're showing catch Basin so you so you call that a dmh I think on your plan so if you look at the leashing Basin you get stone on it and if you on the in the top left you've got a catch basing with stone and then you're leing basins that got fil Filter Fabric in stone so you want to utilize that Basin but we don't know what's underneath of it and what's around it that's the only point I'm making all right so this is a for the catch basins this is the solid uh deep so catch basins so there's now three uh proposed this is the roof drain that's on the north side of the building so that has the crush Stone underneath it and it's a leeching pit so that that's going to be newly installed and that's a application they have to collect runoff from the down spout so okay I've got I've got a question on that but um but if you want to use let him finish so but if you want to use cetch Bas number four and we don't know what it is then the waiver request should have been submitted in my opinion so let me let me just finish up with him and then I'll call him and I just want to go through my list um getting back to the the leeching catch Basin that you're going to use for roof trins I couldn't find any detail on that I found a rim elevation I didn't find any depth width Stone this is the detail okay there's dimension on any elevations it's shown here um catch Bas in Rim at 73 6 how deep is the Basin how is the Basin constructed that that's my question um it's shown oops um so there'd be the uh manhole cover at grade 73.6 and then we have elev or Dimensions shown for the um depth of of the is there a dium on the depth of the structure I didn't see that 4 4' 4 in here is it 4T 4 in below the INR be below the top of the structure erosion controls on the plum this is the erosion control okay so what you're showing is the the erosion control in the front yes so that's the only erosion control that you have um we're showing a silk fence barrier around the uh soil stockpile um we're proposing catch Basin inlets um with silt sacks okay but during construction for during the site yeah tax for the for the Basin but during the construction process on a heavy rain you don't have any erosion controls I do know you have a paved apron somewhat I didn't even see any stone base to prevent any you know Truck mud or dirt from going on the 36 um but I do know you have a paved apron there so that might eliminate that I just don't see enough erosion control on the plan to accommodate if you working today you know where is it going to go where's that material going to go so there's a number of notes on here for the contractor um what we're showing is what we felt was the minimum required to ensure there would be no sediment transport offsite into the roadway by proposing that um erosion control barrier where it currently exists across that entrance the rest of the site is already graded we're not proposing to regrade the rest of the site so we're just digging out a hole here digging out a hole here and it's it's going to be a subsurface but it's it's still the sight's gravel so there's the potential for mud going out on the 36 so um if you felt it was necessary we could I'm just like I said I didn't get the plan until uh this morning cuz you didn't drop it off until yesterday and when I look through it extensively these are some of the the issues that I that I saw um I did see that you put the the test pits excuse me the soil logs on the um plan I didn't find any elevations um but I did go through your book and I did find that even though you didn't put any elevations that you um they seem to be okay um I didn't see anywhere who the soil evaluator was for the test pits um they're listed on the forms in the um well they're listed right here actually all test pits were logged by Kevin Timothy from C O'Neal and I was on site myself but who a soil valuator I'm a soil evaluator I know you are but that's my question if you did the evaluation or the other guy's not a soil evaluator not okay so you probably didn't do any form 11s no okay one other question I have going through your book very extensive you did a great job with all this and find that on page figure four on your plan itself it doesn't show the existing catch Basin that was installed many years ago I I we sent pictures out of that I don't see that on the plan where the highest black dot is that appears to be where the existing catch Basin was originally right in that area it's right there yeah is it shown on the CL it is no I didn't see that it's uh just below the 69 uh label for the contor okay is it marked as an existing and say it's existing Basin to be removed um I believe we do have a note on here about that yeah roof drain use existing leech and catch Basin to be removed to install infiltration Basin 2 so that's the existing catch Basin so that's the only questions I have any board members have any questions for Mr P I don't okay councelor you had a question no I just just wanted to clarify um with respect to the issue about the existing catch Basin and the waiver comment the existing catch Basin is not being used as a catch Basin it is solely being used as a roof drain it's not providing any of the functionality of a catch Basin it's simply going to be piped out under just to clarify that under our operation and and maintenance plan which I did not see that you filed one you might have yes we did we supplemented and fil it you're going to find that anytime there's a structure installed that we inspect it so to leave existing structures there if they want to have someone come out and inspect it when they pull it out then that's fine other than that a wave it should have been requested we don't have any problem with anyone giving us an inspection okay okay so having okay let me just pull the audience there anyone in the audience that has any questions um you did get some new information in today I don't know that that was addressed about the Watershed areas and EPA um I don't call that whole email anybody have any questions any concerns Bill coleski the Ala Road the last meeting I was here I just questioning about any more uh trees or grass area going to be planted in the north I mean the east side going get on the grass because we did ask about grass is your applicant not going to consider putting any grass there no we're not planning on changing the design as it currently stands of the back of the property the storm water management system is more than adequate to control the storm water runoff there's no additional requirement that we install grass it's not part of our um operations proposal for this piece of property and so it is not something that we are willing to do we firmly believe that as designed especially because it controls all of the storm water from a hundred-year storm on site that this design is adequate and no additional grass is necessary okay your next question sir I you I keep hearing about 100 Year storms I mean you know lately last few years we've been getting quite a few 100e storms we've got quite a few 10e storms 10 year storms okay well I they substantial Yeah question is uh with the 38 trees face in the north side what is the purpose for that can I someone answered me why are you putting trees on that side where your Butters of your property is asking for a few trees and it seems to be a problem with that we are you know indirectly the abutters on the East and that's we're just asking for a small amount of uh foliage whatever for the winds the sound I mean we we we purchased this our home back in 2020 looked at the property it was beautiful it was nice wooded area in the back you know love the area we came from the city and um you know 6 months later I'm hearing a bunch of thumps you know when I knew it wasn't a train coming by cuz we know what the trained like and I see this machine out there just cutting every tree down what's going on here I mean to me I mean there a small piece there's a small building there why did they have to clear that whole stretch of land is there a purpose I don't even know what been there for 4 years what is the intention of that building is it anybody anybody I can't attempt to get an answer fire although I mean it's they don't have to answer me but I mean it's just seem like it was unnecessary to clear all that land trees out for I try to get an answer for you uh the attorney has just begun the process of representing them so I don't I think she made a statement prior that she was not involved in the initial um work so if if she wants to comment on it that's it's up to her I mean they're putting 38 trees to the north side what are you appeasing the uh the rear road tracks I'm a I'm I'm a neighbor I mean we all want to be good neighbors correct I can I can tell you I I do not know what happened originally with the clearing of the land the uh the site plan for this particular property has that being used for a slight manufacturing assembly use um that will include uh bringing in the materials for the light manufacturing um and assembling them within the building on site that's the proposed use we have a tenant who will be coming in to conduct that use this the property is zoned like manufacturing manufactur so I I cannot speak to the original tree removal it's just one at a time because we have some I mean still land but yeah so the the owner is not willing to put some trees up on the east side that corner there I mean I mean he's already invested 38 trees what's uh 20 more trees I can certainly speak to them we are neighbors but this application is just for the storm water management system it okay thank you do we have any other questions from the audience does the board have any questions for the council question oh I'm sorry okay yeah make sure you so just as as in the past um I brought up few things would be not on plans um so as we know before they didn't even know it was in the W shed so with not within 200 ft of the town's conserv uh conserv flood plant and water supply projection zones um not sure if you guys understand but directly across the street within less than 200 ft is a tributary to the Silver Lake Pond or water district or what you want to call that's a pro public water supply so I don't know if you guys want to take a look into that I mean obviously in the past they didn't know about the waterers shed so maybe they didn't know about the tributaries directly across um the street okay was there anything else yeah um as far as the basins themselves is there going to be any kind of breakout barriers or anything like that to prevent the flooding on the uh other neighbors property over here as I know Steve Hayward has supplied you guys with pitches but this individual's property floods pretty pretty bad over on that side and then erosion control I know you had touched on that as far as out front but um I supplied the board with some pitches photographs from the train track side of all the wash outs so is there come some kind of erosion control for that side or some kind of um something you put down grab that have do you mind answering those I know what the answers are but I think it's put yeah um just so that we can hear just just identify I'm sorry fuss O'Neal and um I'm not sure what type of flooding might occur over here but um the the Topography is such that you know the property line pretty much forms the drainage divide so run off from uh that property is um it's pretty much localized to that lot itself the runoff from this lot again is as we've described as being directed to these two new infiltration basins um I'm not aware of any wash outs in the um right of way of the mdpa tracks but that would be something that umta would have to be looking at we don't have any control over thatp of thing okay I hope we answered some of your questions if I if I could answer one more I yes just to identify yourself I'm sorry that's okay and so for the applicant um to the extent that there are any um issues across the street again to reiterate unlike 100% of other projects this will contain all the water from a 100-year storm there's not a question that anything is going to leave the property and go anywhere else 100-year storm is an excruciatingly large event and it will entirely be contained on this site which is not the case for 100% of the projects that I have ever worked on in 30 years just to address the Watershed issue I know that the plan doesn't show some water shed um comments but in this Lodge book they did a addressed um some of the wi shed issues so just CU I I don't I really look at this but J 301 Home Street um so is the front driving parking area going to be um recreated or is all the front going to be all redone because right now comes off the front of that building and it just comes right on the street so I'm just wondering how the water coming off the front of the building is going to get diverted to the sides and go to the leeching basin catch Bas at the time he did he did address that you can you can address it again if you want I mean obviously the videos the photographs I provided shows clearly that the water right here just flows right into the street so I'm just wondering how they're going to keep I mean the hay bales aren't working so so we're proposing a catch station right at that low point where it currently goes across uh the paved BN that's here so that's going to be the low point to capture the run off from the front parking area that's going to be set down a few inches below the the existing paved apron so that will capture the run from the front I've got one other question on our side inspection we we looked at all the basins are on site and I think you'll agree that all the basins will fall I don't know when they were installed I don't see a guarantee that that's not going to happen again so we have a operation and maintenance plan that was included in the drainage report I think it's don't only to an appendix okay maybe um but there is a an operation maintenance plan in there okay all right any other questions audience if there is no other questions I would be looking for a motion to close the hearing for 285 Home Street I just have like one one question about the no AP just came up in my head the erosion control when you are fixing those new basins and everything else are you going to put erosion controls added on to this so when you do do do the construction it's guaranteed everything to stay on that property yes there's notes on the plan yeah right now we have the base like the protection in the front there but with the new Bas ins I think you should have some temporary controls while you're doing the construction to contain everything on that property yeah my thought was those two infiltration basins are going to be dug down would not regrading the site we're not the site isn't going to be there's no additional clearing or extensive land disturbance other than the excavation for those that's what I mean two Basin but they're low points they're not you know it's not like we're cutting a hill that's going to I'm just thinking okay how you doing that you got to obviously remove some material from that spot directly into a track and leave it or that's going to stay on the property say if it rains the next day we just don't want any what run off yes so again we have notes on here there's a number of extensive notes on the control plan yeah and I if if I can I think what Jim also explained is that where okay just one at a time I don't just to identify yourself just so and ask you where the soil gets stockpiled there's erosion control all around the soil stockpile which is being moved into the middle of the property so when it's excavated it's dug out it's brought into that area where there's erosion control all around it and then it'll be trucked off site okay thank yeah again there's a number of notes on here that a contractor what we're showing is the minimum but they as with any construction site we can't foresee everything so there's safeguards in buried into the notes there that you know the contractor has to be aware of uh of coming um rainall event um and to take the necessary precautions to make sure that they're there is no runoff to home street for instance so that's that's typical of the notes that we include on here we have we have uh additional notes Here for extreme Le events also such as what might be considered like a hurricane or a s nor Easter or something like that go ahead y j 301 Home Street um as they had stated uh so the the dirt that's going to be put in this pile as the attorney just said that's going to be trucked off site how many yards of dirt is that going to be uh I don't have the volume up here okay and uh just to bring this back up obviously there's been significant changes to this plan uh it's not the plan that was presented to the planning board so I think that should be looked at I did some numbers on the I did some numbers on the gravel remov if I have it was substantial which might require an earth removal permit but that's up to few days okay any other questions or comments regarding 285 home street if not I would be looking for a motion to close the hearing um I make a motion to close the hearing for 285 Home Street the storm water management proposal okay I'll second that motion second I have a motion in a second all in favor I I I I okay so we have 4 I so the next step of the process is to make a decision on this so let me just read this this is what the board has to consider um one to approve the St water manage permit application and issue a permit if it finds that the the proposed plan will protect water resources and meet the objectives and requirements of this bylaw two approve the S Water Management permit application and issue with conditions modifications or restrictions that the STW Authority determines are required to ensure that the project will protect water resources and meets the objectives and requirements of this bylaw three disapprove the storm Warner management per permit application and deny the permit if it finds that the proposed plan will not protect water resources or fails to meet the objectives and requirements of this bylaw I'm going to kind of open this up for discussion and give you if everybody's kind of heard um the presentation from the applicant um we've heard the um comments from the neighbors um we've discussed the potential of of planting grass so we asked them about planting grass to minimize the U the dust and some additional trees to minimize the noise um I think we're all aware of the history a lot has flooded on numerous occasions um I don't know if anybody got any of other comments at this point or they're in a position to make a motion we can have a motion and um and do a discussion um if not I'll make um I'm going to tell you that I am concerned with the plan I'm concerned about the detail on the plan and I'm not convinced that the E is going to go into those two basins um I don't think the plan is met the criteria of the bylaw um I I don't I'm not comfortable with the fact that that cleared area based on the history and the pictures with those two basins and the thir front is captive enough for the storm water and I I understand the opposition I understand that the storm water regulations as we have now have in the process of being updated because of the fact that we've had so many 10year storms and the information that you guys have provided have to provide us from the Massachusetts store hook um is probably a little Antiquated I am not comfortable with the plan and based on some of the comments that I made um anybody else got any comments uh just say a few things we did have our own engineer look at the matter and he felt comfortable with this plan and they did uh address the catch basins that we're very concerned about prior they are going to have a maintenance plan on those basins um everything is going to be contained on that property and I've been here a couple years and haven't heard anyone say they're going to contain everything on that property in a long time time but I go back and forth on it like like you said there is a history of uh run off water onto the street but I I go back and forth on it personally but just my opinion yeah I don't see enough erosion control in the front during the construction process to to maintain if you have another L event that's that's part of the problem but that's the plan they submitted so we have to deal with what they're submitting to us anybody else any comments um well just again like you said as far as the erosion control in the front but also again I think you had mentioned prior just that back area where it is flat is that really going to go down into the catch basins the the dirt oh the water the water yeah yeah yeah I I I personally think it's going to surpass it but hence the trees CU it's just a flat open correct and everything flows down here yeah this right those are the two concs well I asked originally that's the plan they want to submit um they've revised it that's the plan they want us to take action on so we have to take action on this one obviously if the if the application is not approved if they want to submit something else then then that's up to them or they can they that decision so I don't know if anybody's in the position to make a motion if not I will yeah you can put a motion for make can vote on it I am going to make a motion to disapprove the stor Water Management permit based on the fact that the plan that I don't believe that the plan meets our criteria doesn't meet the standards in the bylaw um although there is some question as to whether or not it'll it'll hold 100e storm I think with a history and the fact that there's no erosion control and there's too much too much water running a few 100 ft how many ft per second going into one C bation so I'm going to make a motion to deny the uh disapprove the permit based on those comments uh second the motion okay um does anybody want to discuss the application any further any you want to go to a vote I'll go to a vote okay we have a motion in a second I'm going to look for a roll call Pa no uh on your motion no cuz you want to clim it yes right I'm a no on your Mo no a a yes yes for the I for well just to explain the motion because you put the motion okay my motion is to disapprove of the stor Water Management plan as we as presented which means that they'd either have to appearal on our decision or they would have to revise that plan based on some additional comments so it would be to disapprove the application so a yes vote ages with me a no vote means no you don't agree okay no change my I didn't understand yes yes yes Kathy Evans yes okay so we have three 3 to one 3 to one to disapprove of the storm water management application sure so when will we get your decision in case we want to appeal or we just will leave the property as it is cu this was what we will do designed to solve a problem okay what we will do is we'll prepare that decision and I'll have it next week for for uh excuse me at our next meeting uh for the board to sign off on okay so just and just just so that the commission is clear I do not know if my applicant is going to elect to appeal he may not and if he does not we'll just leave the erosion control measures in place that we installed originally okay I I just want to point out that we did in fact receive a request for um um for enforcement on the original site plan a request that the the site name was not complied with so that would be the next step on our action and I'm sure my client will deal with the enforcement and will raise the fact that he spent thousands of dollars creating a plan that was going to allow a 100e storm event to infiltrate on this property presented the application and the commission rejected the plan okay and I'll just say I mean I'll just say Fieldstone medalist versus Conservation Commission of North Andover the only expert evidence in this record was the evidence from the commission's review engineer and our engineer and you elected to disregard that but again let me let me just clarify that our review engineer basically calculates math we're not qualified to take this 146 page report and and and make sure that the the runoff pre-development and post-development runoff and calculations work that's his objective and he determined that can I just finish so that's his objective all right we take his recommendations very well but we are looking at a situation where these folks have encountered major flooding You're right our review engineer looked at the plan and his math and his calculations are correct that's all our review engineer does he doesn't suggest that you move catch faes from here he doesn't suggest that you plant trees it's not part of his job his job is to make sure that the math in storm water is correct and to make sure that you're building your structures your structures are designed accordingly so it's up to us to decide whether we feel as though the plan is sufficient enough to protect that neighborhood and we found that it doesn't so so you can whatever legal stand and you want to you know that's our opinion and you know if you want to it or if you want to commit with a plan that's suitable to to everyone to keep everybody happy I mean I I highly doubt my applicant will come back with another I mean we're very concerned about that area not being grasped it's cleared grassing is not part of your requirements it's okay that's fine it's not okay but thank you okay thank you thank you next item on the agenda solve all right next item on our agenda I got to get a little drink if you don't mind I forgot let take a I usually have water too much grab some hey hey how you doing I'm doing good I seen you a while SE bum it's a influencer online he he's like a Mr Olympia gu I like working also I don't know who he is Google he like same new he's he retired have a great Thanksgiving every you too thank you so it's new uh what's do I dude it's just everything like holidays get this in the middle of it Thanksgiving coming up yes how's the kids in how's your daughter good yeah you coming home or you going to see oh my daughter she lives with me oh okay she never left maybe it was is that un yeah I'm working Thanksgiving so all right well that's good you volunteer to help people I volunteer now it's a quiet you know some people volunteer to help I volunteer to bring in the cranberry sauce oh the can one the famous can I'm bringing both I'm bringing homemade and can because I know it's like people have strong opinions about the cranberry sauce yeah I took uh I took the phone week off I took Friday off and next week off I time I was going to go Florida but a place in Sarasota I was thinking about going to sarasa got hit so the beaches are kind of mess so you going anywhere else no I'm just going stay local getting over cold I got it over but I'll try to get back to the swing of things scale what else is going on I could see any specific don't how much that's about it h 65 class yeah that was close I was like debating back both I know me too it's [Music] like because and then after the fact could we have been [Music] just yeah it's and I think else is just discussions now discussions 111 okay that's 314 okay let's I knew that was going to take wow that sure did it's 8:00 [Music] do you know what the terms me I'm not that would be question EXC excuse me welcome back yeah you should have brought my water is he back yes y okay we're back into session back uh 111 River Street um I'm sure the board's been hopefully the board's gotten some of the email correspondents back and forth um there's been substantial changes in the scope of work that they proposed um Caitlyn's been out there once um Paul and I were out there they encountered a field of ammunitions that they wanted to excavate um we asked them to please provide the commission with some information as to what they were going to do because it was beyond the scope of work that they were supposed to be doing two weeks ago we finally got a response in today's mail um which I don't think is completely adequate for what they've done so I think what I'm going to ask the commission to do is to put the owners which is going to be hotas on notice with an enforcement order we're going to request that they amend the order conditions and come up with a replication and a restoration plan cuz I excavated a trench I'm going to say that was 60 ft wide maybe 100 ft long something I might have the numbers mixed up it was substantial yes and it was substantial enough that when we went on the onsite they had heavy equipment they had screening plant um excavators I think they were waiting for a load up which was well beyond the what they projected to do which is go in clear 3 to 5T areas and dig down 3 ft yes so um if the board is okay with that we'll send them out some enforcement action and ask them to uh refile the biggest problem is the uh the applicant's representative whatever her name is um has not been very responsive we sent out an email that we wanted to go in and look the response was a you can't come to the meeting and you can't go out and look and then we got it from sponsor earlier so so on 111 River Street then we'll proceed with um an Enforcement Act and uh we'll get that drafted next day or two 314 Plummer Street we haven't heard anything on that one so Caitlyn and I discussed this earlier we're going to send um an enforcement letter out to them certified meil and hopefully we get some response I did take the Liberty to put a phone call in the Nathan Palmer with no response 359 P stre that one Tom 340 street so um I have been wor I just wanted to update the the board here uh about a year ago um uh it was the board wanted to ensure that there was a uh an easement put in place on 340 P Street for the water flow prior to any building at 314 or the uh Starbucks property so uh so the the status of that easement right now is that we've been working with uh Mr peek on that easement we've come to a u an agreement on the easement uh we're just waiting for uh some reimbursement monies from Mr peek uh before we file the easement okay so that easement is with your family yes okay um that's basically the planning board that's beyond us our problem was that when we we someone reported they were dumping material at 314 there's piles of ashalt concrete and dirt right we got that report we reviewed the file and found that the the notice of intent had expired so that's the issue that we're dealing with um I know there was some easement issues I thought that was resolved with the site plan if it isn't I mean the site plan shouldn't have been um no the EAS was not resolved it just has recently been resolved at this point it hasn't been filed yet so okay so maybe that's why nobody's responding I don't know I mean from my understand is that the uh the the the building the the storage facility may not go through okay so maybe that's five okay thank you we I think we're still going to send them out of notice uh and we did send them a notice that they their notice of intent had expired so they're going to have to stop the whole process over again so yeah 359 PL the street I'm glad to report that 359 we had some complaints there was some concrete dumped over there uh we sent a letter out to Mr the Angel um which he didn't receive uh I did call him on the phone and he sent something down within a couple days and cleaned it up okay so I think there's no other action needs to be taken there I did caution him that no other work can be done until um he has a pre-construction meeting and the sultation is replaced and 340 P the street I was home today so I didn't see the rain has it improved we haven't had the nasty rains right we haven't had the heavy heavy rain correct it looks okay right now good yeah we need the heavy rain we needy yeah okay but it does look okay you I mean I I walked and looked at the grading you saw where they raised up some of the some of the uh Granite curb to make sure Dunkin Donuts wasn't heading in the wrong direction I was at Duncan today but it wasn't ring that high so okay so we're going to leave you on the agenda for a a little while longer if we get that Heavy Rain anything question they put the cameras down to find out where the water was coming from on uh 314 yes I have not gotten a report and I did call Steve today but I think he's on vacation I was out there when they did the cameras and there was the line was clear from in front of O'Reilly's down towards the park down towards the not the park the country club um but we did find basins on 9s and Chinese restaurant uh we found some leeching basins then we found some manholes and I asked them to camera across the street so based on the the information that I received then that th that drainage from those two facilities are going into the ms4 system the town system and heading across the street and heading out to the problem area I haven't that hasn't been confirmed because I haven't seen the uh haven't seen the report as soon as we get the report we've got some indication we've already sent them a letter months ago and we'll follow that up with some enforcement ction cuz they will have to get their system out out of the ms4 ms4 being the town Town part of it um that's going to take some doing um but you know we'll we'll be working on that but I I still need the the confirmation um I was in the truck when the guy had the camera but he was going down to the country club so that's the part that I saw um and I also went over there and the highway guy showed me where some of the where the catch Basin were because the leashing man holes is's one here and one over there and then the pipe must have come out at an angle so they go into a catch Bas another catch Basin which is solid and then they change directions it's the only way you can change directions So based on what I saw it's all going there so we'll have to deal with that and you're going to let us know next rain I'll try to be around when the heavy rain Yes Thanksgiving supposed to rain right all day yeah but we need that like in big downpour in 20 minutes I mean that's that's what we really need over there and all of a sudden the water builds up um but they had elevations on the catch basins um they didn't change much for the Ys but I think they got the water they did some changes with the pavement to direct the water to the to the basins I think in front of the Farm Stand and then there's one down further yeah so they did quite a bit to get that and I I did see the gentleman out there um he was taking pictures and he was doing measurements so okay um I I I I think we're going to get a major portion of that problem will be solved okay 76 Pratt Street I believe have a nice thank you appreciate it yeah thanks for the information I'm going to pass that on to the planning board on that okay 76 P Street I believe we have not heard anything okay yeah you said about new llord or something I'm technically on that what we didn't do and we will have to do now is we'll send out certified mail return receipt requested and we'll just verify the addresses we we had some couple of issues with one of these addresses yeah is it 76 or supposed to be zero um so yeah that's what I want into um because zerat is where everything was cut down um and I I received a call from 76 Pratt saying hey you know I didn't cut down those trees um and I said I informed him you know I'm looking into it um because I see that zeroc you know surrounds his parcel that he owns and we had sent out the letter to uh the owner of zerat we confirmed that because um correct ownership wasn't updated with the accessors um online but I I checked in with them um and I believe it was sold like October 8th 2024 so it's a very recent sale um and that letter went to the most recent owner and we haven't heard back okay and we sent that regular mail so yes so protocol is we'll send it out certified mail and we'll wait for some sort of a response got um we didn't go down and I don't know we had heavy enough rain to see if we got any infiltration from that um but we still can't go on the property unless uh you know it's up to them to make sure we don't get anything into the into the river so okay storm water application review um we have you put in the F we have an application that Peggy was not very comfortable with and I didn't get a chance to sit down with her and to grab some other applications to see why it's a three-page application but she uh did you give any input what you wanted or not want um no we talked about it a couple times and I asked her to put it on the agenda and I was hoping to talk to her today but we Caitlyn and I had um a meeting to go over some of the agenda items and then we had another meeting with um Building Commissioner in the admins in that office on the the flow of paperwork so we never got to that we SP like three hours or something going over that so let me just work on this to see yeah whatever P wants make sure she gets that's yeah I mean basically it's subject property the owner the applicant yeah that really isn't and then you just check off the Box yeah bi a Sol that's really not yeah see just you wanted a narrative and a lot of times the of portion wasn't being filled out she said okay all right so let me just make it another we'll get together with with her right after the holidays and see exactly what she wants and I'll grab a couple I know that Westbridge water has got uh pretty good program and we'll grab some all those um local bylaw at some point when we slow down I was hoping we're going to slow down but I think we got two new filings this week um I like to go over some of the local our local bylaws and maybe create a mitigation policy whereas when we get work that's in the 50 to 100 um if there's a policy that that allows you know the applicant or whatever or even in a replication area to replicate that area or to do something either on an adjacent property if they're limited um but mitigation means that if you're going to destroy or dig up the trees in this area and it's under our jurisdiction and we're going to look to have it repaired or replaced or replicated you can do it offsite maybe in an inac area yeah I know Kathy mentioned something like that in the past about if they do something like that to replicate it like double and yeah two to one as opposed to a one to one but not not so much doing it on another site yeah one the the state I think is one to one yeah I think we used to be two to one yeah and Hell effect is 2 to one so if you if you if you're going to disturb 1,000 square ft you need to replicate 2,000 sare ft somewhere on site but if you got a limited space you can't do it on site can you do it on an adjacent area that's part of what the mitigation was so you're allowing them to replicate it ading area Okay in somewhere in ading area else's property or either someone else is well that gets a little haery that's up to them to tell us how they want to do it but if you know I wouldn't say look you're going to go to Cathy's house and and plant uh you know create some Wetlands but I think that's up to them it gives them the option to come up with some sort of plan um for mitigation if they don't have enough room you know if you get something down the Avenues or or off of 36 Anon and they're in the wetlands and they got to put a septic in and they don't have enough room you know maybe that mitigation policy would be buying some trees okay and they could plant the on town hall or at the intersection of 58 and 106 some sort of policy that gives you the little flexibility if they don't use it we do have the policy cuz like I say right now you're two to one right but we work uh and going to take a minute Kaitlyn this the agent report yes so not a lot of s sent out the last meeting um but I did have a canu out to the stockbrook pond um where we are dealing with an emergency Beaver permit um so on November 19th I went out there with the Board of Health um to meet with the Bro Brockton Water Filtration plant um regarding this emergency permit um because there's a beaver dam that is restricting water flow um so when I went out there the dam the Beaver Dam had been breached so we did observe water flow um and I checked in with our Board of Health agent this morning um as this permit does go through Board of Health um Board of Health includes conservation since you know it involves wetlands and resource areas um but the application itself goes through the Board of Health so I checked in with them this morning um and we're waiting to get a little more information from Brockton um and we did receive an email from the division of fisheries and wildlife um and they informed us that a licensed Trapper will be starting to set traps in early December we don't have an exact date but he did specify in early December um so we'll be getting more inform information um that we can share next meeting on that the Beavers just so that you know the last couple of years have been real problems um more so on the Hansen side and it's tough with the Beavers because there's a certain season where you can destroy the DM but you got to relocate the baava so I think you can probably help me with this we might be in season where it can be trapped yes but I think it's a very expensive process it's like $500 to send someone out to trap the Beavers um but it is becoming a big problem because it um in off of Pleasant Street in Hansen there's a brook that comes through there that feed mon Pon and then stump Brook you had pictures of stump Brook I mean it's amazing how they built that crazy so um we're going to get more of that so and okay next item on our agenda is meeting minutes I believe November 12th everybody have a chance to review the meeting minutes for the 12th and I'm glad to see the meeting minutes are right on she's right up the day on them do I hear a motion to approve the any minutes for November 12th 2024 I put a motion that we approve the minutes for November 12th 2024 do I have a second I second okay um I'm I'm only going to ask for a limited vote Kathy wasn't here so so I'll go for I'm going to go for a roll call vote um Paul yes Ed yes Ellen yes Kath you want to abstain abstain okay I want to read that into the record too a record that what's this Peggy's thing yeah you can put that back in me I just want this letter come in I just want to make note that a letter an email has come in on U November 18th uh to the committee members and I'll just read it briefly um dear committee members I hope this finds you well my husband and I would like to express our sincere gratitude for your efforts in Expediting our septic request during the Conservation Commission meeting last Tuesday your prompt attention to our needs was immensely appreciated especially given the time constraints thank you once again for your support wishing you a blessed Thanksgiving I just want to point out you know Caitlyn and and Peggy worked hard on getting things together so these people could pass papers very good and I do want to take a minute we have a gentleman that I'm going to call John because I'm going to mess up his last name this is John I want to just take a minute John has express some interest in being on the Conservation Commission we met earlier in the day I didn't scare him too much right he's back he really did yeah yeah he's back first hearing well after you heard this hearing but he's expressed some interest um we can't really take any votes or anything um because you're not on the agenda um but I I think it's appropriate if you if you want to spend a couple of minutes and tell us a little a little bit about yourself obviously we can't take any votes no problem uh my name's John it's and nobody gets it right so I don't blame for nothing um my wife and I moved to uh East Pond uh about three years ago I retired from the Sharon fire department um and since we've been living there we've been having a great time on the lake and I've been wanting to get more involved in in uh the issues surrounding the lake out here um I join the mon P Watershed Association Taunton watershed uh Alliance as well uh I've been looking at the uh okon planning Council and a lot of the other um associations around here that concern the water and I F when I saw the opening for the planning board that kind of dve Tails into all that and I thought maybe I could you know be of some help here um I told that one I don't really feel qualified when I started looking through the M the meetings and I said the only way to get qualified is to join and learn Lear so I I'm more than willing to learn I've already talked to Caitlyn about a bunch of classes that that I can take um through various organizations to give me up to speed on on a lot of the issues you guys are handling okay um we're not going to really question anything too much um they do have a something coming up the 4th or 5ifth of December or the 14th what was that next program that's available so that program is the southeast New England uh uh planning something or other and that's on um storm water mitigation and planning storm water uh stuff and um the deadline for application is the 14th the program doesn't begin till January it's about two hours a month from January to June yeah it's a five it's a five part course of two hours um I think I would like to take it um I'm not 100% sure and I'll reach out to the Town Administrator um the process is you would with us and we take a vote and then you go in front of the selectman the selectman I believe are meeting on the second um and I'll reach out to the Town Administrator um to explain the time constraints um and see if we can somehow pull it together uh I think Caitlyn you want to participate in that now the program is Free by the way so but you just need to be sponsored yeah is it an online program I read the uh it was a little tough to tell but some of the pictures I or they actually go out and do um site work so they can explain yeah because in real time yeah you're better off hopefully you won't get a snowstorm but you were better off and if any other board members you can share that it might be helpful the thing is that it's it's storm water but I don't know if everybody's heard of rain gance some of the some of the processes now for storm water is to put your storm water into a rain garden and let you know the the plants and trees and what not uh absorb some of the the plants and I think based on looking at that email that they are coming up with all these different Alternatives which might be very helpful it would be helpful around the pond um you know you can't put them in the ground anymore so you put it on top of the ground but that's eventually going to infiltrate um so it sounds like a pretty good program and emphasize that that all the planning is they're planning on low cost ways of doing this so they won't you know not extrav in costs working through the wetlands or near the wetlands I mean you can't be excavators and dozers and all that stuff so um um I read it briefly and I I'll definitely attend and I'll reach out we've got your email I'll reach out to Cody um to see how he wants to handle that process cuz that's that's new to me okay is there any other business we need to discuss I don't believe so I would be looking for a motion to adjourn at 818 I put a motion that way J for the evening I'm looking for a second a second have the seconds and I'm going to go to roll call Pa Alan yes y thank you so much Sho one thing you could shut it off [Music]