[Music] going to uh call this meeting of the Halifax planning board to order this is the meeting for Thursday April 18th 2024 I need to announce to you that myself Tom ilas is participating remotely as is still allowed by the Commonwealth uh if anybody wants any documentation of that uh we can provide that to you uh also I want to announce that the planning board meeting is being recorded by area 58 and can be viewed um on YouTube the physical location of the meeting is 49 at Town Hall 499 Plymouth Street obviously in Halifax uh the first thing on the uh menu for tonight it isn't actually listed but um let's talk about the agenda for a minute um it's a relatively small agenda uh is everybody um all right with the agenda can I get a motion to accept the agenda as presented I'll make a motion to accept the agenda as presented I'll second that moved and seconded as per the Commonwealth uh when uh the chair is participating remotely we need to do a roll call vote so um I will start at one end of the table uh Brendan OT Elliot yes Amy troop yes BT Gainer Yes Rick Mary yes Tom Milas yes all right thank you all um first thing on the agenda is petition 101 pah Nella a special permit application to put up a sign located at 416 Plymouth Street Farmstand um do you have physical copies of what we're talking about in terms of sign and our [Applause] location oh we have the application here do you have the application um do you want me to go over any of it I do not have a copy of the application um that's why I was asking if if it was at least present can you uh give me a description of it please yes it says nature of the petition as a tenant to put up a 40x 48 sign to display the farm name um it is asking for a special permit um and do we have four copies of a certified plot plan Danielle and four copies of the application for the hearing sheet there's two down here and there's one right here and you okay yeah sh one I'm just I'm just going over the application just as he's not here and he asked me to yeah yes yeah okay thank you um it says here in the directions that we need to have a public hearing was this not advertised is a public hearing it was okay was it in the newspaper I Hadad of time to okay I thought it was I just wanted confirmation okay so we probably should read this in record notice of public meeting the Halifax planning board will hold a public hearing on Thursday April 18th 2024 at 700 p.m. in the board of selectman's meeting room at Halifax Town Hall 499 Plymouth Street Halifax Mass on the application submitted by kosaya nzala for special permit to um sorry put up a 36 3 foot6 by4 I freestanding sign said to be located at 416 pth Street Halifax Massachusetts 02338 as shown on Assessor's map 72 Lot 10 book at the registry Deeds 52462 page 7 a special permit pursuant to 167-173 c a lot with Frontage of 300 ft or more may have two such signs not less than 175 ft apart property is Zone commercial petition number 100 101 thank you should we motion to open the hearing yes so this is a motion to open the hearing can I second and we have second and we need a roll call vote again please BR Elliot yes Amy troop yes Bert Gainer Yes Rick Mary yes Tom milus yes thank you thank you very much um the does the petitioner want to present uh his so here the audience yeah he's here okay would he like to present his case I I just want to you know put up a 40 by 48 sign on the U on the property closest to the to the Barm stand so people would know they're traveling on east or west on 106 that would uh know where I am all you that's all I'm looking for not a l sign is just going to be a name and uh logo and that's it okay obviously would uh it would in fact if it was approved it would have to conform to the regulations of the signs by law itself in terms of style and application um does anybody uh have any commentary Mr chairman I I have a question of of the applicant if that's okay certainly is this uh just for our own benefit this is basically the exact same sign correct me if I'm wrong the exact same sign is what's out on the that's out on the front lawn of the Town Hall at Hemlock duplicate size dimensions everything same size so that do you recall when the selectman approved that sign how long ago that was that was in the uh and '90s or 80s at first they gave me a sign that was a one by one and nobody could see it so I back to the S and I got same thing again there's no lights on it no interior lights no exterior and it's in a historical district and it's going it's black and white the only thing that's C on is the okay and approximately Mr zah where are you hoping to put it uh basically dead center or dead center 200 ft 150 ft from I'll probably put it like within 120 ft from the cow wash in oh from the cow wash in yes okay so basically in front of right in front of the the overhead the AR okay thank you and again it complies with as far as you know setbacks from the street from the curvs be 10 ft away from the sidewalk right and no lights on okay the only issue is that there other signs on a lot right isn't that the only thing we're dealing with here and it's like in the other signs that have been put up on that lot not all the businesses are even still there anymore right no rock is there technically Rockland's part of that law but it's a whole separate building and then they got the big one and then so the only thing keeping him from having that is that those two are there within the same span plus Rodney threw up a sign there too that thing is actually kind of hideous but but on the same breath Danielle there's no application for that uh Rodney's kitchen sign right that that's there's no special permit that exists for it yeah we couldn't find one yeah that that sign is probably in direct violation uh we we should probably U notify the zoning officer to look into that um there's no question in my mind that that sign was just put up without any author authorization whatsoever but but it's not our us to enforce that so much uh but I think we could notify the U zoning enforcement officer to look into that I think that's a point taken that U that sign was not an allow use nor was there a special permit for it I guess where where I was going with this is that since his his law is completely separate from the bigger building where that one sign large sign with all the smaller units on it I don't see what the problem would be I get it it's we need the special permit because it's in the bylaws that we have to get it approved but I don't see what the problem would be to have that separate sign on there for him I mean do you I mean it's it's a whole like if if he was part of the bigger building and wanted his own sign off the bigger sign well that's a problem because then every single business inside that building is going to want its own sign that's going to look terrible since you're in your own own separated section of that land it makes sense to give him that sign as a business owner in town I would think following up on what Brendan just said I hope I'm not talking over you I can't quite tell um I I think you're absolutely right and and and in my opinion that is the reason for special permits to allow for special circumstances um this is a unique property um the business business that operate under the roof of the main building uh I I think would have to be limited to that multi-directional sign out front and they can also put signage on the front of their storefronts I believe the bylaw and is still um to a maximum of 60 ft of the length of the building can be used for uh attached signs to the building um so they have Avenues there um but where this is separated from the building I I I in total agreement I think this is the reason we have special permits uh I think this should be allowed and even as freestanding signs go in the bylaw the freestanding sign for one business is allowed for 30 square feet and we're not even getting close to that so he's not asking for anything outrageous um I I would be in full support of uh granting a special permit for this particular purpose if anybody else has anything to offer please should we open it up to public comment yeah sure I I couldn't tell if anybody was there so I okay hi am Fred G from Seven Rosewood Park here in Halifax and I have a couple of issues with this particular application if I may first off Mr nezel is a very important business in this town and I realize that and I respect his business however there's a few things that have been going on that have in my opinion should not have been going on and there is a picture that I will give to the committee showing a sign that Mr nazarella has posted in his previous location which looks like a piece of junk which has been there to say that his business is a half a mile down the street that's a violation of our building codes okay you cannot advertise like that secondly that sign is not within the bylaws of our in size and structure or character that we want to see in hellofax so in my opinion that sign better come down pretty quick before we even think about putting up an additional sign [Applause] secondly at the zoning board meeting Mr nazel excused himself from being in the chair I was there and I asked the question what about handicap paring and he said oh I have one space right there well let me show you this space it's right there under my thumb when you look at that space it's at the East End of the plaza right near right on the west side of where his driveway is now visualize a handicapped person getting out of their car or they have a handicapped fan whatever going up that ramp that leads up to his parking lot where his customers can walk in the flight and go right to his business why isn't there a handicap spot up on top of there when you think of these tractor trailers coming in with 40t trailers loaded with mulch coming West on 106 making that turn coming up that ramp and now a handicapp person trying to walk up that ramp because that's how they have to go and now this big trucker who's watching traffic so that he can he or she can turn in and here's this pedestrian right in the middle of that Bo I'm saying that without while we're talking signage we need to look at another situation which is the handicap parking on the particular lot that we're looking at next picture I will show you is as I stood in front of what used to be the church and those signs should be coming down off the face of that building as brenon had suggested we have some things advertised there such as the church and and the medical center which are no longer there but there is only one handicap spot from where that canopy is and that's the one I just pointed out to you at the end of the Builder handicapp parking should be within 50 ft of the business but the other thing is is that even though that handicap spot may be 50 ft from Rodney's that means that that handicapped person once again gets out of that vehicle has to cross and head West to Rodney and here's this traffic flow and now we've already approved the building in the back to be a manufacturing site to put in to build sheds now I don't know how much retail they're doing out of there but if you're talking to me about building sheds I know we got some trucks going in there something's got to haul these things in and out so here again the handicapper walks across this traffic then as we look at this last picture which I took if you were standing down by that canopy the original when the church was there and the medical center there's four handicap spots down there there's not another one on the west end till you get to rock bank and there's nothing on the East end until you get to the one that I showed you in the first picture Beyond Rogers so I think that while we're talking sign and this is all on this particular property that the zoning officer because the permits that were given for these other signs were way previous to our present zoning officer so I think his involvement is very necessary and this particular situation with handicapped parking relative to our safety of our citizens I think is rather important okay thank you I I I have a comment uh if I'm allowed um everything I'm hearing is is probably accurate uh and to what was alluded to these are everything I just heard are enforcement actions um and it's the property owner's responsibility to provide the adequate amount of handicap spots Andor um access to any particular unit and that's something that we need to uh uh basically forward to the zoning enforcement officer to investigate um I I I not dismissing anything that I just heard I I just think it's separate from the sign issue um as far as the sign on the other property that's also an Enforcement issue other than the fact that because we are granting a special permit we could in fact require Mr Nella to take that sign down once M Mr chairman a quick question if if I could uh address Mr Nella is does that sign belong to you is that your sign that's at your old location no that's so who's who oh if you could yes and identify your sorry that's that's I belock him it was there when I took the property over I just enhanced it a little bit and if I if you guys want to take the sign down I'd be more than happy to take it down but it's not your sign no it isn't but I put really not your a sign a take down no I put the letters there to to tell people that I moov down the street I'll be more than happy to take the sign that I put on that sign out and uh tomorrow morning okay thank you is that what you were raising your hand for I didn't think so no And as far as the handicap I would ask the property owner to put a handicap location on the on in front of my my building in front of the building where I operate I'll ask him to put a a handicap po Place great because in addressing those those issues that uh Fred brought up basically bottom line if the handicaps locations are down by the awning in the in the bank there's still a sidewalk that in front of the building that leads all the way to your to your building so they're not walking across the parking lot hand right by where you go into the to my place right was a handicapped parking space was that for Rodney's kit uh no that's that picture that I wrote on so my question was actually not for the public it was for somebody that might know the bylaws a little bit better um when it comes to parking in handicap spaces I know we have a requirement of spaces per employee and occupancy and square footage square footage is there anything it depends is there any um thing written that says the location of the handicap spaces that need to be I'll be honest with you that's the first time when you mentioned it has to be 5050 ft the Massachusetts architectural access code covers all of that it's it's 521 CMR and it has very specific uh language in it in terms of proximity to sidewalks and and what have you and and [Music] again I'm sorry go ahead the one I wrote on just so my question was and the reason is cuz I think just to be clear this handicap space is just outside of the front door of your down at the bottom of the driveway I get so in order there's a separator there right but in order but like this is his space Plus in front of his space right over here so if the code says that there needs to be a handicap SP within x amount of square feet of his front door 50 50 right well from here to here I mean obviously you can't really tell but if that's 50 it may just be in the code now is it the most efficient place to put it obviously not to your point but if it's actually within the bylaw of where it need needs to be that's actually not his problem that's the that's the property owner Mr narella to is you can have a seat right Mr n in fact isn't there a god real for lack of turn in front of the pocket is there a break in the guard rail from the from the handy pack so per say they're not walking all the way out into where car traffic will be there is a designated break in the RA in the in the god Rail and uh going to the front door of of your place so it's not like they're walking up the ramp into from the door of the building to the to the break is about 30 ft so what I was saying saying though is although it may not be the most convenient place for where it needs to be that's right I'm saying but but my question was more if there's a handicap spot within 50 ft of his business although it's not the best place that it probably should be it's not really his problem because it satisfies it's almost like they almost it's get the impression that get the impression that if you're handicapped you can only pocket handicap spot is that what they're saying it's like the handicap people can park in the other spots too it's just preside riding a place that nobody else not a good place for it to be not a safe place it's not a safe place for it to be and your your point is absolutely valid my my thing more for like the point of the the written rule is it may actually be compliant although it's not efficient I think if you take a rule around you'll find that if they try to walk through that break in the G Rael that you're talking about and a handicapp person would have a great deal of difficulty making it through there they would be going after and again not ideal but not illegal and not as dangerous as walking out as you had stated walking out into the traffic area there is a designated call it walkway or breaking the God reil for them to safely get to the front that ping talking lot is where I am that's where the gas station was at one time gas so where I going with this is I completely agree that that's not the most efficient place to be and we should probably ask like you would said ask the property owner to to put a new handicap space to be more common sense right although that's fewer far in between now this but at the end of the day it's just one of like your list of of things were were very valid and we want to make sure we check those boxes it just that doesn't if if that that's within the right distance even though it's not in the right space it still might actually be in the Lal law but I have a feeling you have something else covered on the because you said that there was something else Mr Mr nez's property is also kind of unique in that it's a sort of an expanse um you know if we're considering just going into the uh to the enclosed area that's one thing but people are going to access this that whole area where there's plants and whatnot so it's really kind of hard to confine how people are going to travel there but but it needs to uh you know typically you you make your adjustments to the actual like for instance the checkout station which would be in the enclosed uh area but if they said that a handicap spot you have to have two of them they have to be the first two spaces in the parking lot in the very beginning in the very front of the front of the building if that was what it said then that would be very different then we'd have to have that conversation but if it doesn't say that that's why I was asking is that what it says cuz if it doesn't say it it just says there has to be at least one within 50 ft there has to be an 8ot wide lined area where the handicap person can walk in okay that's part if you look at 167 13 on your bylaws you're going to find some of the information that I just gave you on this B on this handicap my other concern with that handicap cap spot being where it is it's because we know there's a new business going in the back and that business is damn sure more than 50 ft away from that handicap so something has to be done we need to talk and my whole purpose here is not on Mr nazel it's on the property itself and I just want the committee to be aware that we need to talk to the property owners and let's and the enforcement officer and let's get together and get some because if you have to be 50 ft from the building the ones down at that fire end you may have four of them down there but they aren't 50 ft from the middle of that building where the other businesses and where we've got new doors in for new businesses okay so that whole property needs to have a reassessment in my opinion and you can get a hold of that guy I'll give you 100 bucks right now there lies the problem be a private detect I was going to say I have a feeling if there's anybody in this room that could it would be you was one of my occup thank you very much anyone else I have a lot to say I'm very ashamed right now of this board because here we are again discussing things that should have been on the site plan that should have been peer reviewed and they were not and we let them go and here we are tonight again and I am not against your special permit for the racket at all all I do think to come and wholeheartedly that all all of a sudden here we are with 416 Plymouth Street having this come in front of us and our next situation come in front of us as the building is completely divided we don't have handicap spot we're putting the town all I have every right to finish my sorry I thought you were stopping me my apologies we have roads that have lcks that won't allow us to take them and not following the bylaw we have here again this and this this is a major issue we're not following handicap CMR because we did not have a peer review like necessary needed to be and I know exactly where the owner of that building is he's on Cell Street and you see him quite frequently don't you I don't see him that but you do see him I see him once in a while yes yes so wouldn't you think that all of this would have gone without all of these problems perfectly fine if the site plan was done peer reviewed we wouldn't be going over this it would be a lot happier and we wouldn't be putting the town in danger because the Miss we're not following the B all completely so we have other places in town that are need a site plan well this where is this one because this one was not peer-reviewed and obviously if we're sitting here asking for compliance if we're asking for compliance on handicapped and we just what date what what was the date that um approve the site plan for 416 do you have it right here is it on here it's not signed 11922 no it was like a couple meetings ago Tom do you recall what day it was no I don't but but you know if if you want to go down that road this thing should have been done when the new owner bought the property and started doing stuff and and that that goes back several years but yeah what was that I was it a pre-existed non-conforming building when it when it first came up in other words none of the none of these requirements were even written back if it was pre if it was pre-existed nonconforming in May of 2023 there was a vote when there was three of us here right before you were elected Mr milus that um they all of a sudden pushed it through without a site plan review we had it that it needed to be done and then you guys just did again I believe it was the first meeting of April but I could be a little bit wrong but right around there well it's been going on for many years many years and most these people weren't even on the board at that time I believe you were um these two were it was myself gor Mary that were there that night and I voted no so voted no to what voted no to the site plan for as RIS and it's not because I don't like your Farm Stand I do I want the site plan done because we have to be the same to everyone in town in order to have our laws followed and not have and not have problems due to handicap spots not being here because here we are a couple of weeks after this was approved I believe it was May 21st all the grand standing aside I'm not Grand standing I'm telling if we want to go down that road there are plent that other properties that uh didn't get pushed to the Limit either um in this particular instance everything we're talking about right now is enforcement actions in terms of handicapp parking it's all enforcement it was supposed to be on the site plan if the site plan was peer engineered none of this would have gotten by there was doors that weren't on the plan we oh we'll just have that come back in have we gotten that plan yet have we gotten the plan peer red did Mr Brennan one of a meeting and actually review the plans did we get a letter from Mr Brennan no he didn't peer review nella's F I thought he I had tow I I paid a town $1,000 to the P review yeah I remember pat pat making comments on problem so what did you pay, Pat Brenan made comments and he was okay with it no it was a separate it was a I wasn't there at the meeting but I was there for the meeting before and after so I'll be careful not to speak on what was discussed at that meeting but it was a separate section just his section was done not the whole site plan for the whole that space but it wasn't 100% done how it should have been because we had already denied and this is the problem it's continuing to go on because we're not doing it correctly and we have to do it no matter who it is no matter who it is I I keep hearing that I think we need to reopen the site plan and have it done correctly to make sure that the town doesn't get in in a spot with a lawsuit so Mr Nella has to pay another ,000 to plan no the owner of the property needs to do so that was been that's that was the problem is we were requesting entire site plan right and we all agreed that it needed to be done by the whole building including what Mr nella's new business was going to be on but the business owner refused to do that so in compliance and in every efforts to try to make this work he paid to have his section of where his business is going to be to be done through a site plan through Mr Mr Brennan Mr Brennan right and then that came back now I'll be careful because I wasn't at the meeting where you guys discussed it you voted no you guys voted two so it passed two two to one whatever and then it pushed through now to Amy's point it wasn't technically right because it should have been the whole building site plan which would have addressed these things like the handicap spaces and all that other stuff however um it was done we're here and we're here to talk about the special permit for the sign at this point so I know it's all one and the same M however unless there's going to be a site plan done a new site plan done which we have requested and we haven't approved that shed building if remember at the last meeting I specifically told those people if you can get the business owner to do a site plan we'd love to have you back oh he came back he did he came back did April 4th then it was so that was one Jesus okay so we have but do we have a full sight plan on the new building out for without all of that like so there was doors added on a on a weekend there was and nobody discussed anything solidly on where the handicap spots would go and it did not go up for peer review which we agreed every other every time every site in I was outed what we had there was a change of use in that back building change division of place any changes of use in the new building is a place where an not building excuse me the existing building is a place that we can uh hold the owner's feet to the fire if you will shame on me for not being at that meeting Jesus that sounds like a reoccurring situation but I'll call myself out on that one um but we've been trying to track down on this business owner like this building owner for a site plan a new site plan to be done and shame on us if we didn't use that opportunity of the change of use of that building to force the hand to be done I mean I but again I wasn't there I wasn't at the meeting so I shouldn't speak on it however that's not really well since since then it's become apparent that there's been other changes inside the building as well I told you about them yeah and those changes need to be addressed in terms of parking I mean the square footage hasn't changed but use makes a difference in some cases not all but some um that's a place where we could you know so I think does this go back to the does this go back to your Enforcement issue as far as far as as far as handicap and that kind of thing that's an enforcement action right now but if he he is continuing to alter the interior portions of the building and that if that classifies as change of use um for instance when the church was there that was assembly use um if it's that's gone and we need somebody needs to look at the uses that are currently being proposed inside the building and that is I asked to be looked at I asked to be looked at it I let you know I let the board members know that two doors were added to the front I certainly did and that they divided that but nobody cared and the peer review was not done and don't don't because this is not okay would you like to give me to give you a list of things you passed on all right so push through talking about a sign perit let's stay on track here I agree with uh with you Tom to the point that the square footage in the ground floor area has not changed the footprint itself has not been added to or detracted from if if doors were added or stairways were added or petitions were added or petitions were taken off nevertheless you're working with with the same amount of footprint or or square footage floor space sellable retail space and as long as it's business use and it's not a change of use like we have had in the past it's still being used on a commercial business basis I think uh whether you have one door or two door doesn't change the square footage or the or the usage of of the uh of how the property is being used it's a not a substantial change and and it uh frankly I don't see how it even involves the planning board to be perfectly honest with you because it was part of the fite I'm try to talk with the chair if I could please when the permit application is applied for that's when the the building official who is almost always the Z officer as well makes the determination as to whether there's a change of use or not and if that triggers any other reviews that's typically where that happens and in in every town well here when we had a sight plan in front of us and we knew certain things were being done and we were know and had pictures of and KN know that Kine already took over the back of the church the front was divided into two and this is a known fact this is when we have to say well we have to check our parking spots because it is not by square footage it's by use because every other building in town for instance down where flower and so is on Plymouth Street we had to review Things based on what the use was to make sure we had enough parking spots to allow it and so therefore it does fall upon us because at that the site plan was here somebody has to make the determination that it is in fact a change of use well we nobody's nobody's making a petition to the planning board to ask if the change of use is allowed or not start it starts with a building perm I've been doing this for 30 years it starts with building perm the building official makes the determination if it's a change of use to trigger site plan review I'm not saying that the site plan down there is correct that's not what I'm saying but if we're going to get technical about it the planning board doesn't go around policing this stuff planning board goes to the building official Andor Z enforcement officer and says do we have a change of use there that's how that's generate except for the fact that we just had it in front of us on so that is different can can I make a suggestion um I think Mr nezel has already addressed that he's willing to take down this sign as of first thing tomorrow so that checks that box I think as far as the handicap sign handicap spaces are concerned I think you're absolutely right that there is either they're not enough in the current space and also not efficient as to where this needs to be I think that we need to address that with the business the building owner and ask them to fix that and correct it however at the same time he's obviously not going to be compliant with us asking for a site plan review so there goes again the or else right like what we were having the conversation at the last week you ask somebody to do something unless there's a consequence most people are going to go I choose or else so we can certainly ask so at least we can say for the record that we certainly did ask with the special permit which is on the docket which is what we've had a hearing open for I personally think we also need to address the other signs that need to come down which is an Enforcement issue right which we'll obviously address because it's in the record as as we're saying it but as far as his sign goes from a special permit perspective I think that for all the reasons we've already discussed I would have I would support that in whatever fashion we need to go about approving that or voting for that okay well I will let you know that our next applic our next appointment tonight also has to do with the same exact building okay that's that's another issue we'll deal get it but we have to do one thing at a time I think we should continue this to the next meeting so that we can make sure that the sign for um Rodney's will come down by enforcement because otherwise we're going to be going above and beyond our site uh our uh bylaws and having four signs on one property so if I that's not the applicant's problem unfortunately it is it is the zoning enforcement officer who needs to deal with that particular aspect and as far as the sign of the other building goes excuse me this is a special permit yeah you he's already offered take that down the lettering down he doesn't own the sign well that's not I was talking about no make that a condition that wasn't yeah no she's talking so what she's saying she wants a continuance to to make sure that the other stuff like the other signs and the ring signs and all that other stuff come out which I agree no not on the the property no on this property no I get it right at the end of the day though at the end of the day we're we're respectfully I disagree with you only because because that Rodney's delinquent sign I don't know if delinquent is the wrong word it works delinquent sign is not Mr nella's problem no but if every single person on that property went to the owner and said we need a site plan done and we need this done and we need that done instead of granting everything for the property then maybe we would actually have something done because there would be a consequence thereof I get it however but if we give the job away we have no leverage whatsoever I understand where you're going with that I just think it's difficult to hold it's hard to hold a single business owner hostage in order to try to unionize the occupants of the building couldn't agree with you Mo I understand what you're stating because I've already because I agree with what you're saying as far as that goes but also can't hold that against him it's not about a person it's about it's about making sure that we have the owner come back because here we are we're knowing now we now have been told so right constru what you can do with that is there are other changes being done inside the building that's where we hold the line right so because it isn't just a change of use it's a it's a reconfiguration of the existing building and we need to talk to the building inspector we as far as the sign goes Rodney sign goes that is absolutely an enforcement action there was no special perm for that I don't believe there's any permit to that at least my investigation didn't turn any up um so that's something that we need to notify him about that we think that that needs to be active on so I think that I think to kind of wrap this up I know you got your hand up so I don't mean to keep speaking over your hand I just want one bit one one last thing when you get a chance should no go for it as far as the enforcement officer goes when I approached him relative to a couple of these issues he said there's a permit for that well if some one of our Enforcement Officers previously had issued a permit they were wrong okay and now it lands back okay but from a standpoint of enforcement and we're saying we're having trouble with this business owner okay with these signs on the front of this building of the property are not there anymore the church isn't there you know the the handicapp parking is wrong so there are enough violations here that at $300 a day per separate violation to that property owner which the insur which the zoning officer can enforce in writing can send him a letter and say this is wrong this is wrong this is wrong this is wrong these are illegal this is in the wrong PL they have this has to be corrected and for each one of these violations it's three $300 a day okay do you think you'll get his attention it's a good point so I'll leave it to those of you that know that process what I was going to say is although I agree with you and I do not think that you were maliciously targeting Mr narella as an individual however and I and this isn't a yeah but this is a by holding the property owner accountable through keeping him from being us being able to vote for his special permit although you're not specifically targeting him it's keeping him from being able to um perform his business or advertise his business so although it's not targeting him it's really the business it's the property owner essentially he's paying the price for the property owner's delinquency so it it's not because he's there and there's things that are he's pay the price but there's not any there's things on his site there's things on his site plan that also are not accounted for on his site plan so when we keep it's like raising a child if you if he ask for a cookie and you say no and then a couple minutes later you give him one he's going to know the next time he ask for a cookie you'll eventually give him one it's it's a we have an we have an opportunity to address this exclusive of this signage issue um I I I don't think we should hold the sign up based on everything else that's out of this man's control um we we will be able to shortly be able to start addressing some of this stuff and and the finding system to to fr's point it's up to $300 per day with each day constituting a separate offense and it's actually you can write it on a 21d citation it's actually enforceable by the clerk magistrate at pouth District Court not that they ever want to hear them mind you they hate this kind of thing but it is it is available so at any rate I think a lot of your point everybody's points are valid on both sides right and that's the whole point of having a board and not just one or two people right I think the site plan from the beginning should have been done right it wasn't I think a lot of the ways and steps that were taken to get to this point were probably botched in some level or another I think that the good news is we do have the ability to go after for or go after the conversation or or the topics that are on the table but we got to come back to I think the special permit for right now and I don't see based off the conversation we so had so far what would what would delay us from being able to take it to a boat well we do need to have um a sign um a a picture of the sign for our files he did have a picture before it wasn't make that a condition the special permit to provide us a sign I believe it's in the fil is I I don't see it but it doesn't have measurements and and all of that it doesn't and for every on the application for a special but you should have it that's how that's how it you can also make the size of the sign into the motion you can repeat the size of the sign right but in usual times we have a picture of a sign with the measurements and that's that we go over remember like when we did flower and soul sign we had it all all done just as an example we did that for the um for for numerous spots around town that's how it's usually done and the way if it's done properly each time keep in mind he he still has to apply for a building permit for a sign this isn't the end of it this is a special permit to allow to allow sign not necessarily the permit to actually erect the sign so we still has to present something to the building inspector it's 40 in by what 48 I believe that's right here that's what I wrote 40 by 48 yeah 40 have that hearing notice thing again something like that yes it's the same sign it's a duplicate of that sign right there yeah I got but that's essentially when you apply for the building permit if you could please if assuming we go and vote Yes for your special permit could you please do us a favor and submit this 3654 Mr chairman would you uh would you accept a motion on this petition I'm ready to accept a motion and you can put those conditions in the specialze and all that so it's three 3ot by 3 fo 6 so technically that is 42 in so just for so I've marked it up for you to take home with you okay so if we'll need a picture of that too so Daniel can probably make him a copy yeah so if you can make a copy and make sure that he has that or take a picture with your cell phone you have that ability so I'd like to make and again that's considerably smaller than what a freestanding side is allowed I mean you're allowed 30 30 ft in a freestanding side so this he's not even approaching that so you know it's not offensive I don't think and it's not delious to the area I think this is a reasonable application the special I'm sorry go ahead I was going to say um because I know you're via Zoom so I was going to say Brendon Elliot is making a motion that we approve the special permit based on um him Mr narella providing the building permit a updated picture with the correct size on the P Dimension dimensions on the picture of the proposed signage do we have a spot where it's going yeah I'd like to that's what I'd like to add I know Mr Nella tonight discussed approximately 125 ft from the uh side from the side from the car wash look I I don't want to say it has to be 100 but if I could use the word approximate if it was in the general area of 125 ft so if this was it'll be right in front of the for 50 the overhang that I have directly in front yeah so that would be 200 well yeah so yeah right around there which would be somewhere yeah that just so it's not a substantial change it's the general area where it's going in front of in front of the board and again if I could in the motion yeah I got I I got it I'll I'll do a new one thank yeah is anything else before I do this a third time okay yeah what about the existing sign that is hanging already on that property does that come down or does he then have two signs what existing sign he has a sign already at the at the zoning board meeting they on the building he has it on where he has the it's like a the overhang the overhang there right on the face of that it says Nella Farms right that's allowed by by bylaw okay to be on the building yeah that's allowed to have it on his on his just in case yeah I got you okay brenon Elliot makes a motion to approve the special permit for Mr narella freestanding sign with the request that he provide the building permit with the signage picture with the correct Dimensions as well as the sign going approximately 120 ft 120 125 what what it approxim 120 ft into the property line which will line up directly in front of the overhanging structure the overhang structure on his property 25 or 75 175 or 125 I thought it was 120 is what he said 125 125 from from the C wash side Lot line from the East Boundary and think what we just measured up was 175 that's why I I that's why I went approximate so yeah well I know but if you want Stakes I'll tell you yeah pretty it's not dead center of of what this is showing I just wanted to make sure because it was a different and again it would be Mr ell in compliance with the the setbacks from the from the sidewalks and which I think would be in the building permit it would be the building inspector's job to make sure 5 so I don't think that needs to be within our our motion but so that's the motion for the record Mr chairman uh Brook I'll second that motion we have a motion and it's been seconded and again we need a r call vote can we start with Mr Elliot Bron Elliot yes this true I don't have a problem with the sign and therefore I'm saying I don't mind it but I would like the Rodney's one to come down so may I say may I say something I would talk to Rodney Mr Rodney the guy that owns the sub shop we're going to send a letter to the building and that would be my next motion that I'm all right with you sign not to complicate this thing there is something Rodney could do in L of that sign we do allow the bylaws for sandwich qus no pun intended a what um sandwich qus sign the a frame sandwich that is allowed in the bylaw there's a size restriction to it and there's a restriction that it can only be out during operating hours when we had that put in specifically for Public Safety because if somebody wasn't there we had a storm and things would blowing around be nobody there tend for the sign so so he's got other options other than this particular sign so it's you know but again that's an enforcement problem and if in fact there was a permit issued zoning is one of those areas where there is no grandfather it's either allowed or it's not allowed and anything that happened that wasn't allowed is still a violation regardless of whether a permit was issued for it or not inappropriately he would have still had to have gotten a special permit and that didn't happen and again as Mr as Mr Elliot had stated again that's not part of the petition that's the application in front of us so yes or no multile choice I'm no I'm stating that's what I do I know and so yes I'm okay with the special permit with those STS all right B gain I'm voting yes in favor of the petition 1001 yeah Rick Murray voting yes voting yes Tomas voting yes thank you thank you uh Mr chairman if I could make a a motion to that to I recommend that a letter be sent from the from the planning board to the uh enforcement officers SL building inspector to uh review uh the compliance issues uh with the uh requirements that are that should be in place of on on the LW I'll second I'll second BR Elliot sorry I was going to say Bron Elliot yes yes you did this true yes ber ganry yes Mr yes he yes thanks Mr thank you thank you you're welcome too yeah yeah course right thank you all right moving moving on AR you you're going second yeah this is not the most enviable place on the agenda coming up um our appointment uh is 24 I assume that stands special permit request 245 432 Street uh I I may not pronounce this correctly uh hosel did I you can get close FL plan review to open a smoke shop there you go and one of the occupancies located atax Park pleas interesting okay one of those two new doors they were probably okay uh will the applicant like to speak no no basically it's more just to let us know what you're trying to what you'd like to put in what what the plan is for the for the business you know what your intentions are that kind of stuff it's a smoke shop with the hydroponic supplies okay not a not a I'm not supposed to ask questions yet May okay but not a not a cannabis retail SM we not do anything we supplying similar to the similar to the that's attached to the dunks I would assume so cigar y okay can't be all I mean to I'm good with the watery but I'll be back I'll be for off the Record how many square fet is the store the total property is I think 1,800 around 1800t 1652 oh there is 1652 16 52 yeah do we have a [Applause] [Music] [Applause] so if I understand this correct correctly if I'm wrong uh Mr Patel's unit the gym the dog care center and looks like TI's all share common men's and ladies rooms yes no as I I see in the property that whole thing used to be a gym mhm the gyms get out that's a boxing club right now yep uh that's another unit I'm okay so where were your men's and ladies M mine yes particularly mine I think you're going to share this one yes okay so so Keepers and everybody shares they have a common men's and ladies room I guess same thing with the kickboxing gym oh there's doorways to a hallway in the back that leads to the men's and ladies that's a hallway sign to get in the bathroom and and that's a of oh this is what you're talking about right so when they put the hallway in that's another doorway that was added on the one there on the side gotta so this is the side point we were talking about 3 320 2024 updated for the P house but look so there's no door over this side on here over here now they have those two doors but there's none here and there's a door and then there was this and then created yeah so at one time all of this was one thing when the site went way way back and way back done but what's happened is from this to that there's been a door added and a separation so now this whole thing is three instead of not for nothing but I mean I know this it's not that it's not relevant I guess I just try not to go too far off on tangents but I took over a second unit in my building in Plymouth in the landmark building and I just wanted to knock a wall down in the unit that I had taken over oh my God it was a special permit a sight plan a freaking it was like I had to pay the mayor just to get it done and it was the unit that I had already took over you know what I mean and I just wanted to knock a wall down between two offices to make it a bigger office within the unit now wasn't that's a little different because it's not two uses it's not like you no no no what I'm saying is I had to go through all that crap just to knock a wall down to make two offices one office this is taking this is taking an entire infrastructure and restructuring the entire inter use of the building which is why I get it I know I oh yeah right I get but I understand too that in in the part there that says not in the scope of work that there's now some kind of a second business in there where they sell uh yes like uh her daughter is what I understand uh crystals and stuff yes I was trying spiritual something I knew I I that speak for crystal Spirit it goes with the that's awesome I saw you coming out of there on Sunday yeah I had my first take to my forehead Amber and Crystal you weren't really in Texas you were there I was having spiritual anyway sorry we're we're trying to have fun here for once just just for the record how many new uh office spaces have been created there we six well okay do you want it up can if I hold this up can you see it uh Caesar Zooms in on it can face it towards the to Cesar Caesar he's listening's in Theos I know Caesar come in come out of the closet would you over there what's up can you put that can you put that on a camera to show him yeah John John if you want to face it towards that camera John we couldn't hear you iard I was you can you see it oh there it is okay now now I'm getting a view I'm trying to be that's that's a significant change in there this is where he's going I need to that yeah thanks and and to the right of that is where the is it kickbox yes that's the kickbox point to where you buy your crystals oh that I think is is somewhere in this the is where the locker rooms were for the fitness center back went yeah um but show the second door that you're talking about the there's an exit there's a hallway back here because these two these two units closest towards the bank which is in Amy's left here the would be sorry these are common men's and ladies rooms for 1 2 3 well it looks like all four units there I don't I don't know about going in the opposite direction where Amy's right hand is or if they have their own men's and ladies room but this one here is showing up a hallway off the bat to the men's and L's rooms in a side exit door that's all new those uh rests in the back like I said part of the original fitness place way back uh to the left of all that is where uh Compass Medical used to be I I don't believe anybody's in there any longer but do you want this still or are you good no no I'm good thank you thank you yeah this is this is a this is a place where um you know we need to get some some more information uh what do the change of uses constitute uh we need some feedback from the building official I assume that they have building PRS for this St um what his reviews may or may not have been and and you know this is a place where uh you know we get to the owner about this site plant thing so this is a place where we can kind of get just know to Amy's point when you give the kid the cookie and then all of a sudden you tell him that you're not giving them the cookie they usually flip their they throw a temp tantrum so just prepared for that now that doesn't mean give in and give him the cookie in this metaphor but what I'm trying to say is is that obviously and I will tell you the same thing that we have told every business that has ever come in front of us we want you in our town okay however there are certain guidelines as you've seen that need to be followed for your protection for the town's protection for insurance all of that right there's no special there can't be any special treatment otherwise you open everybody up to a liability so we have asked the property owner to do a full sight plan for these changes that have been moved over and over again and unfortunately we cannot bring it to the next stage until we receive that which holds up your business plan does that make sense like if if we can get a new site plan of the property showing this this is this is the last one that's been submitted and none of these changes ask all the changes just he just and you and every time we ask we get met with a no chance and so we have turned away more than two handfuls of businesses in my time here because we refuse to get a direct site plan from this property so I want to say this again we want you in our town doing business we want to take you through the proper protocols that are in our bylaw we want nothing more than to bring good hardworking people into our town and give you every opportunity to be successful but this needs to be done right so that's I can't tell right no but you can say that but here's say we can't approve your business so what I'm saying is so he asked what so what he asked was what could he do in order to go to the property owner essentially you are a source of income to that property owner by being a renter right Money Talks so if you say they will not take us to the next step in our approval until they get what they need for the property and that holds up your business process which holds up your ability to pay him rent which means it's less money in his pocket so to Amy's Point what are the consequences or the the jar that we can hold Leverage is until that until something starts hitting this guy's pocket but no business can go in this property now that these changes have been made correct Am I Wrong do I think that so I don't know why it wouldn't be on forget about p on April 4th they approved the site plan without having it with the I understand what I'm saying though is this is March this is this is March 20th okay this is a different building designed than what was approved three two months ago yeah I would agree with that so what I'm saying is forget what's happened yep we've been chasing this site plan down for at least the three and a half years that I've been here so now what I'm saying is I'm sorry but we cannot and forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn Mr chair we cannot no no I'm in agreement with you we cannot move forward with even hearing your special perit because this building this this site plan is not just saying sense so this site plan is not up to date which does not allow us to even hear the special permit which is a shame on them because now they are feeling the repercussions of the property owner delinquency I said that delcy it still works right works all right am I wrong it's a little bit hard I I I I agree with you I mean this needs to come to aead at this point here's the good news there's a solution and that's what we care about here if the property owner gets us and how do these people there guys let me ask you this cuz you guys know more than I am if we get I'm trying to provide the solution now for these upand cominging business owners if we get the property owner to get us a updated site plan of the entire property with all the changes that have been made so that it is up to dat and correct that we can then send out for peer review and approved we will gladly bring you through the process that might take mon depends on how bad he wants your business and unfortunately there's not anything that we do dep on me it's for me I'm not I had I want you go more of this or no and you know what unfortunately you will be I told you that there's probably 10 businesses we've turned around and now I'm going to have to start counting on my toes right to count the amount of businesses that went it's not worth it until so we just start finding people that and the tax revenue the to's missed out on too 100% because this individual will not do what we're asking him to do and good hardworking potential business owners are are feeling the consequences and it's not fair to you guys so if it comes down to it you say listen I want to be in that building that's a prime location for you that' be a beautiful spot for you you go in there go do the freaking site plane man that's all they're asking for right and then we gladly will have the conversation with you can't wait told you I smoke cigars let's go right but we can't because otherwise we're going to have and I mean this respectfully we're going to have that conversation over and over and it has to stop right because in the same breath it it's been the practice in the past that it's been pick and choose who follows the uh the bylaw you know the requirements the site plan the peer review and and so like Amy has said in the past those are that's happened in the past we got to go forward from this point good new but the good news because but the good news plan was approved with the two doors in the front yep but the good news is here's the good news we don't have to have that conversation because although it's noted that is already different than this so we have a new grounds to go back and go kidding me dude you're not even playing like you're not even so I would suggest giving Mr Maloney a call and have them get on it as soon as possible and we'll get you rocking and rolling as soon as we possibly can 100% so you go there and say you're not going to let me in unless you give him a site plan and he's might he may look at you and go tough luck or he might go wow there it's about time I do it the the interesting thing here is there is so much work that's already been done this should not be that big a deal for him to accomplish right because he's got some place to start from it isn't like he's starting from scratch he just that wasn't whole thing though yeah yeah well still it's a great good portion since this is he should had to do thing go but that was done wrong too so does this need a motion to suspend this until receiving an updated site plan we probably going to need an extension on um the 45 days what day was the um application on this just the other day okay yeah extend to the meeting closest to the expiration date and then if we don't extend it the only alternative is to deny it well it's not really a hearing I'm just meaning like by the time we get um I think we should make note of it but we like you know like we're going to need the peer review and everything like that so I'm thinking that maybe we push it to the end of June just to be sure that it doesn't get constructive approval that doesn't mean you have to wait to with you you know giving you an extension yeah yeah that's a reasonable thing to do we can send it out to to June and you know it doesn't mean it has to take that long as sooner you get this done if you can get this in within the next two like get this done by the next two weeks you can have this convers I mean it's got to go for peer review and all that other stuff but we have to come back in the meeting again yeah we're going to we're going to ask you for an extension um to uh June 30th 2024 just so that uh you don't have to reapply and spend more money to apply does that make sense okay so and then and then we'll just have it not so I make a motion to extend this site plan um to June 30th um to be available till like the 45 day to June can I see that for a second okay thank you thank oh just just yeah just make your motion to extend till yeah I know but I just want to look at the date so I can in like 15 days I still have no no no so so the extension so so what happen happens is when you apply you have a certain amount of time to get it done right otherwise you're outside the timeline and then you have to reapply spend more money put in a new thing when we ask for an extension it grants you the ability to get all of this done without having to reapply and spending more money so it's but you can get all this done well before then no but I need like floating the it's like at least once you're approved you can go to work okay so I have to wait till J 30th no where sending the expiration of your site plan application from May 24th 2024 to June 30th 2024 2024 so that you don't have to apply again because we're giving you the time if you can get this done next week jump on it what we're saying is is that you had a very limited amount of time and we just extended that for you so that you don't have to pay more money CU it's it's in our hopes for the record for the third time that we can get this done cuz we would love hardworking good people in this town we are just unfortunately handcuffed by the property owner not being complant so if you can get that done and unfortunately we can ask and he goes but you guys we're not cutting them checks for rent you are so you hold a lot more leverage to asked to have this done but he may not and if he does let's go rock and roll is that cool I believe we have a motion on the floor is that motion still good hold on one sec next next up next not necess no so what we need is we need a site plan provided by the property if that's by the next meeting we can discuss it we can review it we'll send it out for peer review we'll do all that like we'll do everything that we need to do if he doesn't give it to you for a month and a half or at all yeah so we have time till June 30th [Music] correct we approv from here no but then to get an approval we have to have that permission from property owner [Music] he you so you have you have other licenses that are being yes because you need to show that you have an approved space to retail the tobacco understood so all the more reason to go to said property and say hey pal you're really holding up the uh you got a quite a wrench in the gears here that's what my point like until you guys tell next meeting and you me I cannot correct right unfortunately yeah and I wish that weren't the case as a cigar connoisseur I wish however we can't do this so when would be the next board meeting me a second may mayek but probably not for you you probably that's why we're doing the extension cuz we're going to need them to come in have the whole property site plan send it out for engine ing so I would probably say that you're either the second meeting in May or the first meeting in June which is why we're doing the extension so that your application doesn't expire before that but okay does that make sense but for for the closest but we'll call you yeah I'm the biggest like I'm a big fan of of tackling the closest of like obstacle in front of you the closest obstacle in front of you is getting us an updated site plan from that property owner to us as soon as possible so we can discuss it on May 2nd but if we receive it on May 3rd it goes another two weeks and then it goes out to peer review and it takes another two weeks but luckily we've got a motion on the floor to extend you out to June 30th so you don't have to pay any extra Fe if you decide is that still on the floor we vote on that you give us theit of were you not here for the first section no so there was Amy Amy was making a motion or made a motion I did make a motion Amy made a motion I made a motion to extend May 24th to June 30th 2024 for fight plan application brenon Elliot seconds all right we have a motion and it's been seconded call vote Mr Elliot Brendon Elliot yes any tro yes TR uh Brook gner yes yeah rck Mary yes rck Mary yes Tom yes thank you folks thank you very much Mr chairman if you uh would like I I'll make a motion to uh approve and pay the uh the bill from the Express Newspaper on petition number 10001 for 416 Plymouth Street uh revolving account number 25174 d538 for the amount of $90 I'll second I would like that very much can I get a second for that second that was Amy true second sorry yes am second the name a call folks please yes M TR yes Mr G Rick G yes yeah Rick Mary yes yes thank you um we have a squad on here for U meeting minutes but I didn't see a particular set of minutes I know I've got I'll help you out with that it's um it's um and I actually uh we started this the last meeting and so I'll just start it again um I would like to make a motion to accept the meeting minutes of Thursday March 21st 2024 as written and it was um Tom million Robert G Amy troop and Richard Mary as voters for it okay well we will take a roll call do I have a second to that I'll second that okay Rick Mary seconded that um a roll call vote of those pres at that meeting am tr Bert Gainer Yes Rick Mar yes Mr tomus yes and I believe other than some Cor coments um from surrounding towns that they're forced to notify us about things that they did notab be Bridgewater 03 cross street decision letter town of T 345 Washington Street decision letter town of East Bridgewater subdivision approved with Black Brook Estates the mid rep public heing 108 W Street special per I'll make a motion to accept the leing date of May 2nd 2024 I don't think we have any other business unless I no I'll make a motion to adjourn oh wait a minute we have a um we have Fred who wants to say something coord from the audience yeah one last thing I would just like to hear that in the course of this meeting that the board is going to be meeting with the building inspector as far as the enforcement for these violations that are already on this property so in the fact that he's not getting rent from people he's also going to be spending some extra m money with some 30-day finds on all of these violations I would like to get that into the minutes of this meeting so well just to correct you we're not going to be meeting with the building inspector we we voted to send correspondents to him in a letter it's not just be very be very specific as to what needs to be done because there's a ton of fines out here and this guy is not just looking at you know one sign for $300 a day he's looking at 10 signs for $3,000 a maybe it's a to a maximum of $300 per day per violation it doesn't automatically become $300 that that'll be but that'll be the enforcement is have a INSP make a motion to is there a motion [Music] toj on the floor I'll second it I'll second that say your name first rck Mary seconds in motion Bron Elliot yes yes BR G yes brick Mary yes yes thank you everybody let me check with my crystal to make sure it's okay [Music]