##VIDEO ID:JOzI46hQI9I## [Music] okay seeing that it's uh 7:00 we'll open the meeting of the Halifax planning board the 399 Plymouth Street and Halifax uh the meeting begins at 7:00 p.m. in the selectman's meeting room Thursday November 21st 2024 we announce uh that the planning board meeting is being recorded by area 58 and can be reviewed on YouTube uh president at tonight's meeting is uh Brendan Elliot Amy troop Bert Gainer and Rick Mary okay uh let's see let's start our appointments let's might as well get wrong we contined the hearing on uh hild the lane for approval of definitive plan subdivision modification uh we have a note here that conservation approved the revised plans dated 9924 to shorten the roadway Mr Webby how are you I'm well thanks how you guys can I put this here I don't know where to put sure sure okay um with me is Scott bridg uh Scott owns the uh the big p land and the RightWay for Hill the land Hill the lane was constr uh was approved previously by a planning board in 2005 okay uh Scott has since purchased the property and uh what he would like to do is shorten the shorten the length of hild theane by 20 250 fish so that we don't have to cross this Wetland so we we CT it kept everything uh just to the south of the of the wetlands the last time we were here with with you people was June of 2023 and then you said you know please go to the Conservation Commission and uh it took us from 2000 from June to October this year to finally get an order of conditions so we have an order of conditions to construct this roadway uh so what we're asking for from you people is to be able to amend the 2005 uh subdivision it got approved down to this this size uh we have since uh the uh I do have the old plan underneath there but we have one less slot than what was approved in 2005 just so you know so we've shot in the road and we've eliminated a lot Joe how many Lots were there on the on the last proposal the last there were two and how many Lots is is it is it being proposed on this one um it's one 2 3 4 the sure if we changed anything the previous plan had 1 2 3 4 5 six this this is already have a house and this one has a house and the there's a house here here and here so currently Hill the lane now is just gravel Mr bries is willing to obviously PVE this to your to your regulations and install water so there'll be a water service come in hydrants what about the underground um the underground utilities we we've asked for a waiver from that because there's already poles down to to this part here I think I remember that you did I just wanted to know what the um allow utility p ps overhead yes yes they already have overhead wires to to write into here Joe when was the last time went in front of the zba do you remember on from the zoning board they went to the not Scott but before Scott um Brown yeah was a brown of the one before brown but somebody went in there to the zba for multifamilies and I believe something was approved I I wasn't part of any of that so I don't know which was over two years ago now anyway right doesn't that apply yes I was just asking CU I would think so uh what about uh conservation looked at this what about drainage and all that kind of thing the drainage is exactly the same as originally approved in 2005 we have a drainage structure right at the front to uh to pick up about the first 100 ft here and then after that it's sheet draining draining both ways into the into the drainage basin in this area um that has all been approved by Conservation Commission when was that Joe when did they approve it SE approved it in October of this year okay yeah I think it says it here somewhere I do have a copy of just the front two pages of the like I didn't copy the whole thing so that's just the first two pages do we have the file on this it's not on the cart yeah this it's like a 19 page order conditions remember the last time you guys were here there were some residents from Hill the lane that were concerned about their not being sidewalks for their ability to you know walk and get to you know through the neighborhood um that was good I whether that's you know I'm just trying to think of the things that the last time you were here obviously being a year and a half ago mhm right um but I remember that and then also there wasn't there something that we had to discuss too about getting an extra fire hydrant down there or by shortening it we didn't have to do the fire hydrant is that what it was by shorten it I wouldn't have to but I'm doing it anyway right okay that's what it was yeah yeah and I think you were going to not put water down there too right sorry I can't see you behind that no be an 8 in water no I know but the last time you were here you were talking about not doing water am I wrong on that thought process you're right okay that is seem change he's willing to put the water line in yeah so that's I'll defer to you guys on this um specifically to you Rick if I can what is the what is the impact of shortening or uh tightening the road from 30 feet to 22 feet I mean is that have a major impact on no it's not like a highly traveled Road I mean right just enough room for a couple of C to pass and how often is that kind of like my driveway is 22 ft wide it's a two lot subdivision yeah you know once in a while I might meet my neighbor and right you know you get by each other but I don't see the need of a there will be if I could bring and there also going to be so it's going to be 22 ft wide and then another foot of Cape cart side so typically we can drive over yeah I got you so a mod ification of a subdivision do we have to have a hearing I think you opened a hearing yeah but it's been a year and a half it's been a long time yeah never closed it all right not that I I think you my recollection is you gave me direction go through the Conservation Commission correct and then part of that was U there was I don't want to call it disruption at the conservation level but there was some disruption disruption and then we so we ultimately we had to get it red delineated which was done and then we had to hire echosystem to to check the delineation so those all took months right really and then we finally got back into the the discussion of you know what can get approved and got it approved so Joe is hild the land going to remain a private way if this goes through tell me I don't know I think or can't you guys can accept it or not accept it I don't what about a peer review on this I think I think a peer review is necessary that's just my opinion I do too I believe that Pat Brennan's already yeah done that uh cuz I can remember going out there with pass and digging holes in the uh in the drainage eement I think that it would be only fair to make sure that a we have the folder here so that we can make look at all the documents make sure the hearing is still open make sure that in meeting minutes we didn't close it cuz I don't recall that we could have continued it but I don't I don't know we should make sure that um it is peer reviewed even if it's just that Pat Brenan confirms it and that um the abuts are aware that this is going through where the hearing has been delayed a year and a half and they're not here and I'm sure they would be did Pat review it before so what have you done since he reviewed it just show in the road no we no the road stay the same yeah since he reviewed itd since he reviewed it since he reviewed yes the ne the the end of the last meeting was just we gave Mr Webby those instructions to go to conservation and obviously he got held up there for obviously reasons outside of his control but it was continued um I I'm a firm believer that everything needs to go for a peer review but I'm also a firm believer in moving things along the right way um and not just continuing to send people on this you know my phrase this hamster wheel of death right so I'm sure that um those are Butters that or or residents that um you know were lobbying for a sidewalk would probably prefer to get some some pavement down there so that they can if they are going to walk at least they can walk on some pavement versus a a sidewalk right to have this be held up any further since you finally got through conservation I don't personally think all things being equal but I I mean that one of the things that they were worried about is um is issues and I think we should make sure because I they're not here and they usually would be if if something was happening but that's again it goes back to that's not their fault right I mean our our agenda is clearly stated for the public than anybody that would like to see it so that they know that's why some people are here for certain things and to be honest with you um Hill the lane has been on this agenda since I got on the board and there's a couple other subdivisions that we have got caught in the mud and it seems like we're on the home stretch here and if everybody's given those approvals I'd have a hard time saying why wouldn't we move it forward and if there are conditions then maybe we should discuss what the conditions are for final approval but to start sending them back down the the rabbit hole I think might do more harm than good I don't think one meeting is a rabbit hole I think that one one question I would have right here is 23532 A2 about the heavy duty high density polyone HTP pipe and I think we should make sure on that I'm not sure on that I think that we should be um making sure as we're actually here for the residents and not the developer and the quickness of it and then also the PVE you know allowing the smaller Street and it's also opening up the rest of the town for having to um um do things set unprecedent and it's a careful decision to be made um we don't even have the file here to look at everything yeah no I agree with that part so I think one meeting is is uh and just double checking and making sure that we cross our te's and Dot our eyes um is a very good idea it's a site plan modification so this site plan should be sent out to all the other boards and we should have 30 days to um get the comments back I know and wasn't there a discussion too also on the radius as far as the the fire trucks getting through and uh and and I do know after I had a discussion actually today with uh Steve Haywood that uh hild the lane is uh is certainly a non-accepted street and it's not being plowed and uh so I said well what's the criteria for that he said basically hild the lane is is a drive driveway it's uh but maybe Paving it and again like you said narrowing it down is going to even put more restriction on it and uh I agree I think it I think it should be reviewed I'll make a motion to um have it peer-reviewed make sure the site plan is sent around to all other boards and um continue the hearing to uh the next meeting on M 5th 2024 at 7:00 Rick do you have anything El add on this no no is the Joe is the uh is the drainage is that a a Le leeching drain or is that uh yes yes connect yeah we have a leeching Bas or a leeching trench right in the front right in this area is a type two being being drawn forward or is it going to remain a leing leaching drain this this is strictly drainage uh leaching drain right we have no no outlet for this uh this however we do have it so the majority of the road will go into this space and and that's that has a spill away into the wetlands if we needed so nothing goes on the street so nothing goes on the Haywood Street or it leeches on no nothing can't go yeah that's why it was one of the things we couldn't do yeah we would love to get stuff down here but awood street is in pretty rtion no yeah i' intentionally go around it yeah I would too suspension on new vehicles is expensive all right well I do have a um a motion on the floor I just had a couple questions yeah no of course uh I do have a motion on the floor to uh uh review this uh check the file do some research on it to our next meeting and make the site plan go around to each other board for comments right and when was the date on the next one did you December 5th 2024 so I have a motion on the floor do I have a second that's next year uh I'll second it okay a motion the Flor I'm going to ask for a Voice vote uh Brendan yes Amy yes myself Yes Rick y 4 z um on the uh I understand PE review I have no problem with sending anything to P or anything I'm I just going to go through that with you all stuff do you need nine sets or bring them up [Music] to I think we I I think that they need to go around to all the boards just like put it into the town clerk the town clerk sends them around to everybody and make sure that we're all up to date with the new plan cu the old plan went around but not the new plan this is still yeah June 20 23 this is it okay so then if we already have those pled then we just need to electronic send it around to everybody do we have an electronic copy right from back then I I want to I assume so was the secretary if we have it then we should but if we need it then we'll ask you does that make sense so we'll just make sure that it goes out electronically to all the other boards okay perect so yeah no or where it was done before I don't think so do we need an account set up for the peer review or the account should be set up but if but if it needs to have any more money we should be asking I think it's unless like you said we check the file and it's expired and all all that stuff would we should know that before 9 still sitting on there okay from 30 I'm sorry your name sir Scott Scott Scott is the owner of the proper I for the record I know I think once you get the file and and stop to look through that I think you see that everything's going to kind of hopefully get can pull together yeah just cross and te's and not I yeah okay and I think I think we all know we'll go along with the fifth but we all know next Thursday is thanksg the fifth is going to be it's going to be tough to make come fast well hopefully it'll work yeah let's yeah let's see what happens on the fifth yeah or before the fifth yeah okay very good thanks Jo great thanks Jo thank you very much thanks Scott yeah all right [Music] uh the for a application for uh 42 Thompson Street John Campbell Carol Stephen Campbell a new my him oh is it new all right then keep it right there is this any way here okay that's the well where are we so this is Thompson Street yep you have um this is John's house now yep and then so they're going to 50 ft for 35.8 Acres that's definitely over 880,000 Square ft see it's going back to 60 so they show that it's 50 ft that far back um driveway no this will be the retreat lot so it looks like this is the old antique Cape this is the 50 ft next to it that goes back to their um like it's going to be a retreat lot so it has to have over 880,000 Square F feet so that is clearly happening right and then this is another lot right here so they're subdividing two lots off of the entire property so this used to Encompass all this and I think and all these other properties too but what's left of it just open no um not not in recent times they subdivided off the other Lots on Thompson Street that you've seen the new houses on that used to be that land it's across the street yeah and then this so this is 160 ft of Frontage and it has uh 42215 Square ft .98 Acres that's clear so the only there's only one existing house on that whole piece of property right right here and then the bond do you know like after you pass Pratt going towards middleb mhm and then there's the white antique um 2 and 1 half story 1800s Farmhouse and then you go a little bit further down and there's the pretty cranberry red tape in the BN mhm subdividing off of that okay do you want to get closer to this do you want copy uh I'm sure [Applause] that [Music] is that want it what did we always say about these circles that they needed to come up here and what was the reasoning for that um I think they used to be up Circle what um I think it's to show the widot radius no it's just a radius for the for buildable lot you for the house all the setbacks I'm pretty sure yeah so wouldn't it have to be off the front of the I mean this one wouldn't matter but if this one goes to the front to show that it's I don't know I forget I'm is this going to be isolated wetlands and wetlands that that doesn't look no like a problem you got plenty plenty of land here right oh this is this only has 3 acres of up it's 35 35.8 Acres only 3 acres of upine yeah but you know that's plenty and right now there's no proposal for a house on the on lot three or no indication of it anyway well right so in a anr which these are this is that means approval not required and and um it what it doesn't make them buildable it's just that they're subdivided per hour zoning bylaws you know what I mean but if they were to go to start to build they would have to come back and ask well they probably won't have to come back to us cuz it's not like a subdivision or or a commercial lot but they would have to go to Board of Health conservation do you know if it applies um what's the Zone by the way they assume it's resal John owned a lot of land what's said John owned a lot of land lot should stay on here what it lot area 40,000 square ft lot Frontage 150 setback 50 that's that and then um see oh here it is agriculture residential district and then that's like the full picture [Applause] [Applause] [Music] it's not a big deal I mean you get plenty of room AV House 3 acres one right they call these executive laws I think too it's just you have to have I think it's 50 foot set back so 50 foot all the L lines the lot lines's got plenty I should think so again it doesn't make it buildable it just adheres to the has all that yeah what's the pleasure of the board I'll make a motion to approve the anr for Thompson Street number 42 Thompson Street owner John Campbell assesses parcel 116 3A deed book 15351 page 84 plan book 62 page 850 do I have a second I'll second that I have a a motion on a second to approve the form a as presented uh all those in favor say i i i i 4 Z [Music] [Applause] unanimous um well we have to sign them off so maybe what we should do is put the mile off and you want to start signing it but we'll put it over there so it doesn't get smoi and it'll dry by the end of the meeting you know what I mean sure date [Applause] and just [Applause] yeah and then we'll hand it to you carefully and then you can put it there sounds good all right [Applause] sorry I should thank you seems like there's a lot of we'll just sign them I think there's one for Santa too check it twice see jokes on you Burt we only need a to might as well sign that one too all right I'll stop say make more s over to this table everybody I'm going to need the felt one for the top one [Applause] here what's this just a yep oh do we have to find this too yeping a great deal and I think um there's more for you to sign over there Rick of the uh regular ones yeah I a couple more over there you need to say right yes yeah I've separated probably should keep that all together that yeah absolutely and then Bron you just very good thank you I'm going right or just feel like done and then the Milo pen he's got it oh right there keep your ey on trade before his small VL I usually leave it in the office but just for you no way hi right good job this I'm going leave this one out just to make sure it drives [Applause] yeah and then we'll roll it over that sure okay application is inside what's that one that's the M oh that's the mile we're just letting it drrive perfect okay okay let's move on uh we had put off uh a meeting to uh discuss and take action on the uh proposed uh code of conduct uh people you know we wanted opportunity to read it over and uh what's the uh pleasure of the board I think I still have things to discuss anybody [Music] else why don't you fire away and then okay um I've reached out to a few people attorneys and um basically they um are saying that we already apply to the code of ethics and one of the dangers of this is the code actually elevates the boards and town government above the people since you're restricted in giving the people the full story when it is deemed inappropriate by the boards your first loyalty is always to the people and not to town government the way the way that um it is seen by not just myself but um many the ramifications um can be not good it can move us to be not be um within the PE Within like we're elected by the people so our boss is the people and now we would be saying that the state has more control over what we say and what we do than what the people have my thought on this is um I don't like being unprepared which is what I felt like I was at the last meeting when we talked about this so I went through it um not that there's much to go through but I also consulted a few people including two out of the three Selectmen um to see what they thought um I agree with Amy to a point and then the also my my addition to it is I don't think the answer is not having a code of ethics I think maybe the discussion that we should be having is if not this then what amendments should be made to this does that make sense you I see yeah so in other words like I I think there's a lot of really good things in here I highlighted and I've got more check marks than I have question marks but the problem is is when you put your name on something and you sign something if there's any question marks then they should be reviewed right so um there are certain things like it says in here I like I didn't quite understand for the respective due process the rules of the Rules of Order established by the board of Select so members shall perform their duties in accordance with the processes and rules of order established by the border selectman so is that just is that a paraphrase for the border of selectman have the you know over the the final saying on our bylaws and that's what we're adhering to or is it you know implying that they can come up with things that to force us to adhere to just the way that it reads so that's I think that's to Amy's Point obviously and and a lawyer is going to read through it I'm certainly not a lawyer right but there's that point um it's recommended that the members refrain from providing public opinion on matters before the public body as it's a violation of open meetings like liking posts and other similar responses on social media I think the point is is that when we're elected officials and we go in that room downstairs and we swear ourselves in right we're we're taking an oath that we will carry ourselves or hold ourselves to a higher standard than maybe we would we weren't elected officials um but also you know it's bad for business to go out there and start putting discriminatory remarks on Facebook or anything like that but if I want to write Pro Trump on my Facebook then That's My Prerogative that's my right right so I know that I think um after talking with a selectman the general point of this was to remind us that we should be governing ourselves accordingly right but also when you start getting into the leads of some of this it does look like there's like two or three points it's not the whole document but there are two or three points I think Cody did a great job putting this together um but there are some things on here like the social media piece and also um the policy role of members I wrote could SL should be worded differently where are you on that one uh that's the number 15 members shall respect and adhere to the Town Administrator structure of town government the board of Selectmen shall determine the policies the board of selectman shall determine the town policies of the town with advice information and Analysis provided by Town staff by the town's boards committees and commissions um and by the citizens members there shall not interfere with the administration administrative or operational function of the town or with the professional duties of the Town staff nor shall they impair the ability the town staff to implement the policy decisions of the board of Selectmen it just seems very like don't question the board of Selectmen now mind you I called two of them so I'm not throwing either one of them under the bus I'm not saying that I've got a did you get that feeling when you spoke to them no I got the feeling from both of them that um it was a uh it was a very good conversation with both of them and they were like um you know I think that the general idea of this is more of a reminder that we should be holding ourselves to a higher standard as we are representing the town and when we're dealing with the people and trying to work through for the betterment of the town and to not let personal stuff interfere with our jobs and to not especially not to allow it to happen on camera well on camera or not I think is more the point of this so I think it could be worded a couple pieces could be worded different but I would have a hard time voting this down entirely I would rather see us talk about what we could improve plan if that makes sense Rick give any comment no I pretty much yeah I'm feeling the same thing you know it's just I'm other guys I'm no lawyer either you know I look this over it's like you know you know typ typical ethics yeah you know just don't be an idiot and uh and everything will be fine you know that's that's pretty much what it comes down to normally right you read it and and if you were to read it just to kind of pass it through like when I first skimmed over it and I went I don't know if I can say this on camera um it was basically don't be an a-hole yeah right which is like yeah no kidding we we try to not be like that and just as a reminder for that stuff but then as the more conversation and the more I read into it there were a couple points but again very few points but the couple that were in there it was like maybe we can address that rather than either approve it as it is with the holes or decline it entirely and then have to start over let's I'm a big fan of if you're not a part of if you're not bringing Solutions you're part of the problem so I'd rather bring Solutions that's mine okay uh by the way I did speak to uh Tom millius today and uh you know I even though he couldn't make the meeting I asked him uh you know how he felt if he felt the same as the way he expressed his opinion the first first time this came out and uh he did agree with this I I did inform him that the Conservation Commission did pass this at their at their last meeting also or or approve it and and uh so I just wanted to you know mention that to the board uh I myself personally you know saw I think six or seven different paragraphs that specifically involve conduct you know like you said it seemed more common sense to me you know like Common Sense enough like why do we even have to talk about this we're all adults we should we should know this you know and bottom line you know what I did notice too on the on the conflict of interest thing it cleared that thing up uh we did that wrong on the last conflict of interest uh issue where uh we should have as it as it states we we should have held off on the vote found out if there was actually a conflict of interest and then take the vote as opposed to really you know the members were okay you you two guys you know we choose yourselves and we're going to vote on it we it kind of cleared it up in my mind we we should have hold on time out let's find out let's get an answer which we did get an answer by the way in writing and uh turned out there was no conflict of interest but in the same breath if we had voted it that night it it wouldn't have been correct I think this is separate from ethics I think this is this is again conduct it's it's a it's a statement of of respect you know to the other board members to the other the other members of other boards and uh I think I personally think this is a good idea I don't think it's not a good idea I think it's a great idea I just would like it to be a better idea well it did say it did kind of open the book at the end that it would be reviewed every year uh not not just by the the selectman like you said to say okay this is good no this is no good it's it's it it up to all of the boards all of the employees both elected both and appointed and if there's changes deletions or additions that need to be done I think it leaves the door open for that if it's if it's got to be reviewed especially where we spoke with the selectman that said you know it's going to need to be tweaked so to speak if if there are are areas but I myself see nothing wrong with just reminding everyone we need to work together and act accordingly just for the record I want to make sure that the neither one of the Selectmen I talked to said that it needed to be tweaked I know that's but um I just don't want it to come across that that was what I took from it it was more of um they the general consensus was that this is a this is how you should behave right right and it is fairly common sense um and if every well yeah that's that's all so after talking to him I read through it again with that those those conversations in mind and I I saw like I said I have two maybe three things but I'd be open to a conversation about if we don't like it what what would some suggestions be to make it more palatable okay can the public yes sir you're uh am any of the board members have anything yes sir your name and address please yeah name is Van 2011 cranberry D um there hasn't been a need for something like this for a what right you operated without this kind of a kind of a u requirement all right now you're going to be you all were voted in put by the town right answer us now you're going to answer to the select if they don't like what you do you gone okay but if no that's not true that's not the select I think it's is there any in there I think you said read something about you to the board the board had that you to say that it's well there is a part in here about the um consequences or I forget how they phrase it but uh compliance and enforcement um the chair has the responsibility of intervening we read that last time um but there is a piece in here that says the board of Selectmen have yeah so you're not going to answer to us anymore it's going to be the board of Select in addition see like Amy said too our particular board in this instance we're elected so yes we do answer to you right you know and if you don't want us here then you guess you vote the select no you can't so the selectman is what it's saying in there that the selectman has no decision on that says in addition to any other penalties or remedies as may be provided by the law the board of Selectmen May intervene when members conduct does not comply with the town's ethical standards so they can intervene in this what does that mean yes what does that mean well specifically says uh a letter reprimand sensor or something but they can't and that's the issue like they don't have jurisdiction over us for a reason it's like the checks and balances of the Jud but they can still send a letter on misconduct if all penalties sorry all penalties shall require a majority vote of the board of Selectmen before being imposed upon the members determined to be by violation there was uh range from okay here we go uh code of ethics uh um when a member is in violation when a member violation is apparent as prescribed in the code of ethics the actions taken May range from a letter of reprimand by the board a sensor uh to a sensor to a request for resignation from the position a request so it's a request where it's not like your fired we're elected we we we answered to like Amy said to the people okay so the question I would say too right is um you you've been operating without this for a long time transparency right now in government transparen is so high we need it because everyone's thinking okay out here that look this guy's going to tell that guy what to do okay therefore they're not going to be able to speak on it so therefore we're not going to get what we want out of you to be truthful with us and up front if we can't get that transparency so to me being independent is going to allow us the transparency in the town rather than the select well these fig get out of line we're going to go reprimand them push them to the side or get rid of whatever the their resignation or whatever LED it to them so to me I I see this as a and my guess is I ask this question where it come from who wants this and wants it now and is there any requirement in there for the state for okay where we have to do anything to the state this is just strictly Town nothing to the state okay I don't know in my in my eyes I read two compliance with the law members shall comply with the laws of the United States the state of Massachusetts and the town and performance of their public duties these laws include but are not limited to the United States and Massachusetts state constitutions and statutes the town Halifax bylaws and policies election campaigns Financial disclosures employer responsibilities and open process of government all of which are hereby Incorporated herein by reference and made applicable so for instance we would be maybe doing something wrong by not going along with Mara Haley's MBTA bingo Please Mr D could you not interrupt her please let her speak thank you so that that's a danger that it's it's a weed that can grow and push out and I don't think that it's appropriate to have the board of Selectmen even think that they could send us a letter telling us to resign like they they're not our boss and the people are and that makes them our boss and so that's like dangerous to the Constitution of the United States of America and our children and grandchildren the only thing I I can think is this has absolutely nothing to do with that this has to do with like I said Common Sense how you treat one another what you say about other uh people in board you know treating each other respectfully I don't see this as yes you can speak up against uh you know political statements or anything this is this is a code of conduct how we treat one another and they use the state uh basically the their laws and recommendation as as a baseline to how you can and cannot act I mean we have had in town several instances of complaints about how people act and say towards one another whether they represent the board or they try not to represent the board there's been and it's it's a about conduct it's not about censorship no you're not allowed to have an opinion you you certainly can voice your opinion I think this is more just again how you go about doing it respectfully so here's the good news right um I think the framework of the document is solid I think that some of the details to Amy's Point could lead to some holes that could be taken advantage of if if somebody had enough of a nefarious agenda if you will right so the solution is not scrap the whole thing or pass it for no reason or just because we're going to pass it my suggestion again would be okay so what in these specific sections and there's only a couple what can we do to plug that ho so remove the remove the well what would we well I think the thing with the to to be we also have to be careful too right so I think that what I read and I'm glad that Amy brought her perspective to it because I didn't read it the same way she did In fairness I read compliance of law being um you know I'm a I'm a card carrying member of the NRA right so I have a Second Amendment right to carry my firearm everywhere other than a hospital and a school right and a few other places but I can't until hopefully soon I can't cross over into to I can't carry my firearm into a state where I don't have that Utah license that overseas right and so the federal law or the state law right does have there is some overlap so what I read this as is we will comply with the Constitution of the United States and with the laws and regulations of Massachusetts and on the state level as an overview to say you guys do not have the right to supersede that but to Amy's point it also opens the door to say but they can also come and put their foot on your neck so I think that there's a very simple I don't know how to word it because I'm not a lawyer I do numbers um that you can put a sentence in that paragraph rather than remove the whole paragraph you can put a sentence in that paragraph that states that that that closes the door for any kind of government overreach what that would be I don't know but I think that that has to be in there probably by law but also what be put in there to say but we're not just going to do whatever the new governor decides that she wants us to do which is not what this is saying right exact to Amy's point it is opening there is a a door that is cracked there I didn't read it that way to her Point she enlightened me so I'm open to the conversation of it but I think it can be fixed is my point right and I think in your discussion with the selectman and whatnot this is not saying okay we're censoring you because you feel the Second Amendment is your right I this has got nothing to this is me as an example just as a strange saying you're altogether wrong you're a jerk because you don't think the same way I do or we have a difference of opinion it's how you conduct yourself it's a code of conduct it's it's not a a redraft of the US Constitution it's just how we treat one another it's a code of conduct in addition to that I'll I'll just refer back to the conduct on social media right which was and I have check marks next to all but that one that says you know will refrain from commenting or liking posts of you know similar responses on social media so if I say um every American should own a gun and be able to protect their home um and anything else and a certain selectman may be on the farle side of that conversation and feels as though I'm in violation because in some way on my social media I'm promoting gun violence does this open the door I think the answer is that's not the intention right now right but I like I tell my kids if you're you might not be hungry right now but think of you in 20 minutes right or you might not have to pee right now but maybe in 20 minutes so let's do that and just say let's think about this down the road because if we just pass it although it can be Revisited every year I think let's be honest once the documents in is it ain't getting reviewed every year it does say that in the in the very it says it can be well it says it's the general intent of doesn't it I got a lot of General intents every year too but they don't make it past February yeah so and and a lot of this is already you know the ethics test that we have to take that's already all in there so we already all know this and we already all have to apply to it that's the way it is so like we're Reinventing the wheel adding things in here and I don't answer to the board of selectman and I'm not going to um put open to that they can send us a reprimanding letter and tell us to resign like they can't tell you well well it says it it says it so like no it says a recommendation too doesn't it say recommend it's not like you said they can't they can't bullying no but they can ask you to recommend and then that letter would be read out loud at a meeting and then that letter would be damaging to somebody's and and it's it's all reputation and it's also not really within their purview so allowing something like that to be in there gives them power over us in a way that could be dangerous and also just not okay it doesn't follow our Charter okay also for transparency I asked the question is where did this comeing who brought this up was this T people was this coming somewhere else or was this internal GE to the uh the town building that we decided we need to do this right now because of what's going on I mean what's I think it's I I don't have the answer to that directly if I had to um if I had to speculate I would say that this came out um coincidentally after one of our board meetings got rather heated um not heated energetic right passionate got it became rather passionate right democratic government yeah um do and so at the end of the day I think um this was a extra step to say you've already signed a a and ethics right but now this is a code of conduct as a reminder that we should be holding ourselves to a higher standard just to that just to that point this this came out long before our our last meeting it wasn't because of this was because of several instances that have happened within town uh within the way people were handled the way people were spoken to the way the way they conducted themselves out outside the the walls here Town Hall specifically with the new construction going on in town and and yes people get very passionate and whatnot and which is a good sign by the way but also there's a right way and a wrong way you know and that's and this is excuse me and this is not ethics this is conduct this is not having redrawing a whole new set of Ethics I think it's because we've done that already we we've had that we all we had to sign that with our other jobs I I had certainly had a signment ethics also but in the in in the same breath uh you know I think uh that's all this is is conduct yeah no I get that I think that um I think that the document is great but I'm sorry I think the document is really good but I think it could be better with a spot or two and so because I'm not a lawyer um I would actually like to submit a couple questions or suggestions to Our Town Council to be able to say if we're all going to have to sign this then can what can we do about this and this yes ma'am Karen pis 66 are they telling you that they want you to vote as a group to sign that it should be individually on whether you want to sign it or want not I I was on a board I was on finance committee for many many years and you do take ethics course you also sign an O Okay when you're sworn in there's no need of that none whatsoever when you're when you're voted in by the Town members the Selectmen have nothing to do with you you've taken your oath you've taken ethics courses which are required okay so you know what is correct and what is not correct for someone to tell a whole board that they have to based upon a majority vote sign something is absolutely ludicrous you have your own voice okay we don't sign this individually Mrs favor I'm sorry this is this is a vote of a majority of the board like like every other board it's not individual individual code it's what the town has set up it's it's but I just said that's what they're asking you to do you you as a member that was voted in by us the people okay do not have to sign that from any Selectmen that's that's not a requirement of your job a requirement and so it should not be a board vote it should be an individual vote on whether you want to sign it or not sign it they cannot start making up their own rules okay and then have loopholes in there and it did say that they could ask for your resignation and then state in in different things it's just like we're coming up to the MBTA meeting right and we just found out it was always bylaws right with 2third votes the state changed it it's now majority vote okay simple majority vote and this is what you're looking at is having loopholes in the that's right I as a member would never sign that I've already taken the ethics course I've already you know taken my oath of office to the people and to the town I'm not why do I need to sign that and you're going to tell someone whether they can post something on Facebook or not as long as they do not sayate that they they are posting something or speaking to someone as a board member but as that's exactly what it says just like Tom Pratt has did okay publicly or come up to the microphone and said I'm speaking as a citizen I am not speaking as a selectman even though I am a selectman same thing when I was on finance committee you would go around the table and you would go up to the microphone and you would speak as an individual and state that fact so that people understood that it was coming directly from you personally but for someone to come as government and take and say you need to vote as board to agree to this yeah in all of you have to sign it even though one person might not or two people might not want to sign it that's ridiculous yeah we want what is the uh what is the pleasure of the board do we want to uh I'll make a motion not to sign the Halifax code of conduct can I make an amendment to that because here's my problem under the same thing that you just said y I also don't agree with voting the whole thing down cuz I like the document what if we don't sign what's yeah what if nothing to sign are they going to fire us all if we don't sign get second however that works um so I I will not be voting to pass this as is but I also do not want to make the stance of or in the other option is not at all nothing at all so I would like to have a conversation about speaking with somebody that knows what they're doing because I think that this I genuinely I see the holes trust me we don't have to go I through I think that this was genuinely designed or presented with the best of intentions I don't well that's your opinion and that's just like you said we all get well I do have a motion I have I have a motion on the floor uh Amy it's your motion did you want to adopt the amendment or change your I wouldn't even know where to begin on where I'm not and I'm not going to sit and try to rewrite this or try to rewrite this if they want to rewrite something and send it out to us that they that we might consider it then that's up to them but I I don't have any I already apply to the code of ethics I already I already do all of this stuff so I don't see any need for it so I and I'm not going to sign that because of the dangers that are in it and and and it's like accepting a law that you like like a bill that has something in there that your kid can go to school and get a vaccine without because it has a loophole in it so I am going to stick with my original and say that I am going to not sign the I I think that we should deny to sign the Halifax code of conduct under the conditions that the board of selectman does not preside over the planning board okay so I have a motion on the floor do I have a second is my only other option yes or like is my only they can they can send us something different but like I don't want to spend our energy on rewriting a preamble that has has all of these holes out of it that's why I just my whole monologue was about that so that's what I'm saying I'm so I'm just I'm just going to say that we're not going to I wouldn't sign this because this is this is allowing somebody else to tell us what to do we're not employees of the board of Select trust me if we are I've got a couple checks that have been misplaced right but here's my thing is um I will SEC well I can't add to it that's that's my problem is I I will fine I'll just put it on record even though I'm over complicating this thing I do not want to I will not vote to sign this as it is written currently okay but I am not opposed to exploring a code of conduct moving forward I'll sign a code of conduct just I don't like the way that this one is specifically written for the specific loopholes that are in it so if my only option is either to vote Yes yes with Amy or vote no against her and then that means we just push this thing through then I'm going to Second her I'm going to Second her motion so I do have a motion on the floor and I have a second not to recommend the code of conduct so just just for clarifications then a yes vote will mean it it's we're not going to enforce or we're not going to recommend the the code I did that yeah I know and that's what was that's what like wait it's a yes vote for the no yes it's a yes vote for the no so um I move I I'll I I move that so how would I word that how I want you move You' recommend it and then vote no against it you know so it's in plane like we did no no I I vote that I I I don't I don't even want to have recommend in in my sentence so you withdraw your MO I I so okay so clarify how we would vote I want to turn this down so a yes vote by the member does not recommend that we uh implement the code of cond a no vote would mean you that you don't agree with me okay all right okay all right that clear so are you going to do a roll so yes so yes vote a yes vote means you you were you were not recommending to imply this okay implement it Brendon Elliot yes Amy troop yes I do not uh myself no oh here we go I mean I I'm reading this I don't see anything in it that worries me myself um but I can see what Karen's talking about and what the people the audience are talking about um you know we've already been there we were elected by the town and and I don't think I'm ethically bad or you know I try to behave myself best I can I usually keep quiet everybody knows that but uh I this a tough one it's a hot vote um you hold stand now what's I mean however you want however I vot hold yourself you're not going to give Mrs fa please motion on the floor um I I'd have to go with a yes too okay motion passes the code to be clear the code of conduct fails I would also like to put on the record that I would like to work either with our town administrator or someone to potentially solve this problem of like that's my question before what's the what happens now that we voted it down what are they going to do nothing send a letter at requesting our resignation I no idea sorry not the right time for a j i mean was that was that explains any is there like what's going to happen to us am I going to get am I going to get my pay cut or something yeah you woe US money right okay that being said uh minute we uh have to do I just for clarification to it said the update here on dealing way yeah we did uh you know get a letter letter an email from Amy uh saying that again this past week prior to when the agenda was posted we still had nobody that uh contacted the board requesting the uh fill out the proper documents or whatever and and so uh we removed it um deal away I I they don't they contacted a board member and we voted on it on October 3rd to put it on the agenda right so I don't understand why when you sent the email that said since nobody went through with the procedure of putting it on the board you requested that we take it off the agenda so we did oh no no no no no no no I think you misunderstood I sent you uh a different um email I sent you so sweet yeah I sent you an email reminding you that van Donnelly had asked to be on the agenda I never got that one I didn't that's the email I sent you I emailed you a reminder that you must have missed putting that on and had the the uh because I had contacted uh uh Co after M after you contacted Mr Hadad I also spoke to Mr Hadad and I had Town Council coming here tonight that was going to because the selectman said on on any discussions of deal away we need Town Council president so I made arrangements to have him here withes thank you I didn't cancel DEA in that email it was it was regarding um Van's uh request that I had forwarded to you and I forwarded you that email probably the beginning of last weekish I mean I forget but then when I looked at the agenda and and I was glad to see D way on but this was separate I didn't see any reference this was uh hi burrett I didn't see any reference to uh to the email from a resident forwarded to you I'm just reminding you that I'm sure it's just a forgotten item thanks Amy SC scroll down that was the email it's okay we'll deal with it next meeting this is why is it important that everything comes through the office since I am one creating and Publishing the agenda please including on our future correspondents from the residents so that all necessary items can be included thanks Daniel Danielle true can we just get it on the next agenda see it wasn't on that meeting I wasn't here for that mean that what's going on there anyway a resident from daa asked to be on the agenda so as far as another in the in the basis of transparency transc my chapen I said it that night yeah but that's that was a different topic altogether so they looking to get the road finished or put a house they wanted to see what was going on with it that's I mean the residents that are on the road he's one of the residents on the road so that the attorney could be he was hoping to get an update on what was going on since it had been a while since he' been here so he justed good as I would imagine you know I'm sorry his guess is probably good as ass like the guy that owned it died and I don't know what's going on yeah no I know but just out of respect I I brought it up and said it can we put it on the next agenda just to knock it out of the park yeah well if they want to come back talk why not yeah we said that before but what they got to do is go you know make get on the agenda so that was right now that way talking about it we have the ability to do it so so I we voted it might have been was it the 17th that we did it I know we voted 500 figuring that we we're going to have a process done someone's going to ask the right questions and and then when I got that from you I that was from a email I fed you for Dan Van Donnelly who wanted to speak to us on the code of ethics oh but he also in your his emails that he wanted to talk about deal your way no no let me read that one you talking about the Imp stud I didn't you I well you mentioned de way I didn't mention G I didn't know what that is yeah but uh I mean I could just yeah it's very simple question I had but wasn't shattering also not to be the dead horse we keep talking about this I think a simple solution is to put it on the next agenda MH would you like me to make a motion just to clean it up I'd make a motion that we put dly way on the agenda for next meeting second there's a motion in a second to put D way on the next agenda is it on the basis of we have some information find out what we're going to talk about it's it's on the basis that clearly somebody on the board is very passionate about having anyway on oh so it's an an update so we need the Town Council here to give us the update on it it wasn't an update on the first day that we mentioned it which I don't remember which meeting it was now it was either October 3rd or October 17th but it was Mike shapen and I mentioned it that night that it was Mike shapen he's a resident that lives on the street that wants an update on what's going on because they have holes in their street where the not holes but what do you call it the manhole covers of so it's like a danger they have an they have an emergency sit it's just like past you Lane and it's just well then let's BR on for an update have we'll take it for here's the good news right I'm a big fan of picking the hill to die on and this does not seem like one them yeah it's like if everything's a big deal nothing's a big deal and it seems like that kind of tends to be the road we go down sometimes for no not for no reason obviously everybody's passionate for different reasons but this seems like a very simple solution we put it on the agenda we see what they want to talk about and if it needs if it requires further action which we all know what's going to happen or we don't know what's going to happen but I know where I stand on it which is we're in a stalemate and if somebody wants to come in and take up their time to to come in and talk to us about it they have every right we should put them on the agenda that's all yep and I think that we should make sure that even if a board member any of us asks for something to be on the agenda because a resident contacted them that we actually do so and that it's like kind of more on the way that um remember on Mondays I used to send out an email to everybody and say Here's the proposed agenda does anybody have anything to add or detract and I just think that's a great way to go that way we all do it because we're all voices of the people it's not just one of us that's a voice of the people nobody's supposed to fill out a form to be on the agenda unless they're doing a site plan modification unless we actually make that one of the requirements of being on the agenda but it shouldn't be difficult for a res going to be contacted so he'll be here on next Thursday meeting yeah he's been watching for it to be on yeah he said that to you yeah okay we'll do that so there be no sense in getting Town Council here for D way if somebody from D way isn't here to Enlighten us on what what they he's got to come down from Boston to attend it and when I mean is it he had nothing for him to attend you know well I pay the money if we don't spend the town's money for for is that what this is that what this information is here what is this is this information that's in here Article 2 Street acceptance petition to be submitted all of our bylaws on streets and um accepting them in in here for a daily way no nothing's been submitted for deal away no I mean I meant for reference oh that's yes I put it in there because I also thought we we're going to be talking about rway and uh because I had a discussion with Steve Haywood and I checked on on Hilda Lane to find out why they weren't being plowed you know the street and it's basically because it's a a driveway and and uh there was a couple other uh was it born Spencer no not uh Dan's Lane y I don't even know what that is but anyway uh it was it seemed like there was an awful lot of streets under the under the same circumstances we're running into and I guess from what I understand uh Steve was explaining to me that other towns if they're not an accepted Street yeah they're not which I don't see how they can do that but so the way the way I see this deal way thing is is if a if a resident reach reaches out and says we want to be on there and they want to come in and take the time out of their day to go what's the update and we go we got nothing that's on them right so if we won't have any extra information or maybe we will in the passing of the time but is it is it worth of the pay Town Council to come for de away thing if if we don't have anything I don't think at the next meeting I think what having somebody that clearly wants to come in and talk to us about a de way they're going to come in present their themselves or whatever they want to talk about and then we'll decide what to do the course of action from there and if that is then Town Council then then we'll have a better grounds to justify spending the money but I don't think it would be for the next meeting I think the next meeting is just giving a resident their due you know right to come in and talk to us that's all y so I agree but we pass right did we pass did we vote yep oh did we vote no no we didn't vote can we we have a motion in a second on the floor should we vote to have any way on the agenda second please insert Jeopardy music here okay yeah let's do that okay does motion on the floor in a second uh we'll go for The Voice vote I Amy I rick yes and I vote no okay it passes 3 to one cool and then we have two minutes then and then we have email correspondents right as well yes we do but first is the minutes let's get them out of the way we can do that we have the minutes for the Halifax planning board meeting minutes Thursday November 7th 2024 anybody have any changes delions corrections I personally didn't see any okay do I have a motion to accept the minutes as presented for Thursday November 7th 2024 on you you got something back to me oh sorry I mean to me I was trying um I'm I'm a motion to accept AMS okay do I have a second no second we have a motion in the second uh I'll ask for a Voice vote Yes I Amy obain myself Yes Yes Rick yes 321 well three Z well does it is I didn't I didn't fail it I just abstained 301 3 to one exension forg yeah 3 D1 got St okay uh email from the uh HFA regarding the proposed remodel of Walmart questions regarding architectural design restrictions I understand uh do you want me to read it and was this this was sent to the planning Ward yeah I got ites do you want read it inter reced yeah sure why not all right I will read inter reced um an email from Desiree goit um on November 15th at 8:35 a.m. there's an attachment I don't have the attachment um good morning Danielle uh Dr Bailey directed me I'm sorry Dr Mr Bailey I Mr Bailey directed me to you for help answering a question I had about the proposed remodel of the Walmart and Halifax does the planning board have any architectural design restrictions or paint color restrictions for the outside of the buildings for example some jurisdictions do not allow primary colors or only allow a certain percentage of the building to be painted I appreciate your Insight thank you HFA which is um in Bentonville Arkansas desire goit Ed Bailey has um an email is the building inspector cor yes Mr um Mr Bailey so good afternoon um sent this email um I I stopped because it's from November 14th at 3:18 p.m. and Desiree answered on November 15 2024 so I guess I read it backwards but anyway good afternoon desra Chelsea forwarded your questions on to me we will just need a letter from the named contractor relinquishing control and information for the new contractor so we can add it to the permit um two yes the fire chief will be included on the permit review three no whatever that is four fees are due just prior to issuance of the permit five digital is fine we have gone online since July 1st and prefer as much to stay in the portal as we can keep there and 64 wall signs a such sign and or no part of include the display surface shall not project more than 6 in from the building surface B the maximum height of a wall sign shall not exceed 2 feet the length shall not exceed 60% of the horizontal building Frontage of each said business C where two or more wall signes are affixed to one wall the gross display area shall be the sum total of all signs so this is our sign by law it looks like d wall signs shall not extend higher than the eve line or top of the paret wall of the principal building e the size of signs attached to buildings may be increased in area over allowable size by 25% for every 100 ft of building setback this shall apply to building setback more than 100 ft from the road right away and the increase may be prated according to the actual setback distance if the wall sign is bigger than 10% of the area it is affixed to it is then considered a billboard special permits are available for non-conforming signs through the planning board seven the building department does not have architectural standards outside of 780 CMR the planning board would need to be contacted regarding their architectural standards but to my knowledge there are not any pink color restrictions if you need anything else feel free to contact me so um that was from Ed Bailey written by Chelsea um um and we don't have the November 13th email so that's why that was on the 14th and then hers was on the 15 basically saying to us is does the planning board have any architectural design restrictions I guess number seven on his on the 14 was saying you'll have to check with the plan board it's on the 15th that's what she's doing she's checking with us thank you that so I'm thinking to myself that is this in the historical district I believe Walmart no so it's just outside of it no the historical District stops for lock like the driveway for Halifax Country Club that that's pretty much you know right next to the new law the the new V the new law is right in theedge that's that's the line okay right and it doesn't pick up again sorry I couldn't remember where that was as far as I knowless far as my best this knowledge because I all right okay I think I have them M I do know you know we back when they uh uh Walmart first came in I don't know if you call them architectural design but there was a long list of conditions right you know uh fences grass area uh theed Doras out front as long as they don't remove them and uh shielding on the lighting I think there was plants or ABI or something in the back there was a long list is it too is it too easy of an answer to say please refer to all the requirements that were requ requested of you at the time of construction well they were specifically asked about architectural restrictions that the only the only architectural and again this was a zoning thing it wasn't a it was the uh at the time we were the only wall out in the chain that had DS in the front because it was in the in the center of our town but other than that other than being the smallest Walmart in the chain there were no other uh uh uh you only you know what there might have been architectural uh restrictions cuz remember they came they came before the I wasn't planning board but it was on the zoning board they wanted to put an addition on to the as you're looking at the Walmart would have been to the right like on the ponet side and I think but forever reason either I couldn't tell you if they bailed out or it was just turned down so I think some researcher probably I guess you'd call that an architectural design if they were to add had put an addition on to the building and well then it would go to setback then is there any do we have anything that restricts color not that I know of I don't we don't have it unless like you said it was in the historic district or something right which I don't care I think it' be a bad business decision but you know if they came in and painted the whole thing hot pain that like blue in the dark under a black light but if there's no restrictions to it I mean well don't they have like their own color scheme like most stores so I guess we just refer to doing some research and I mean I wouldn't even know where to look but I'll refer to you it's just it would just be in our bylaws heavy lies the crown P well I would just say be able to compare it to the conditions that were agreed upon back in was it 1990 something whatever it was yes uh so I would like to see the file maybe we could put it on our next agenda and have the file here good idea and then even if there were architectural designs and meet the conditions that were set before in on the basis of it's not going to be any substantial change to the design of what was previously approved something to that effect again i' like you know they certainly within their right submit a plan and we'll take a look at it you know and go from there like if they're going to build out like a whole auto body shop off to the side of it so you can get your tires and oil done it's like that would be side I believe that's where it was so put on for do some research and put it on for next Mee the next meeting yes yeah at least uh yeah does that even need to be a motion or is that just a suggestion how about no I don't think it needs to be a motion how about we just it doesn't need to be a motion ask Danielle to um bring the file we can pull the file and and the site plan would be great the signed one she she has her hand up do they know what they're going to be doing with st and right now I mean the only thing that we heard is that um from a tractor trailer guy that said a sister store would be coming in but that's not confirmed it's a tractor trailer guy that went by us in traffic you know but I would say that I would say that maybe he knows something from working for them but yeah I got vicious rumors want to hear a vicious rumors sure the rumor was that it was uh was going to open up to stop and shop and I didn't even know they had this a sister grocery store Han hits yeah that's that's that's that was and that was that was probably from the driver's assistant's the it could be you know Trad um have vacant building not nothing it's all talk at this point it's a definite baby I said okay we have good we got minutes we got uh anything else I don't think so our next meeting is December 5th 2024 motion to adjourn do I have a second I do second all those in favor say I I motion carries unanimous let me just say [Music]