##VIDEO ID:PcHMJBxRJVg## [Music] okay see that everybody's here we'll uh open the meeting of the Halifax planning board uh for uh September 5th 2024 taking place uh 700 p.m. in selectman's meeting room uh let everyone know open meeting uh is is uh is being recorded by area 58 you can be reviewed on YouTube uh president uh tonight's meeting is brother Nell Amy troop Rob kanana Tom milus and Rick Mary okay I'll uh accept a motion to uh accept the agenda as uh as printed so moved in a second second I have a motion in a second to accept the uh the agenda for uh September 5th 2024 all those in favor please say I I I pass is unanimous okay uh let's start off we just so we know uh the appointment 24244 arold WEA has been uh continued off for 395 Plymouth Street M 7 3 lot 7A so uh evidently uh we'll we'll put them on for the next meeting they they called up and uh and asked for a continuance so uh I guess uh as a as a board their uh their time limit is up what was September 9th September 9th so uh if nobody's here from where are you know what why don't we as a board uh at least uh make a motion accept a motion to give them an extension and if uh they don't want it since there's nobody here to accept it at least it would be uh available uh for them we can send them off an extension letter and uh take it from there where we hadn't heard from much so well what are we looking at we have if we give them an extension for 30 days we'll have two meetings and it'll go to October 9th if we give them an extension for 45 it goes to October 24th and if we give him a 60 it goes to November 8th uh I don't see going past the 9 give him two meetings yeah if he's going to do it then he'll yeah he'll sign it if he wants that right okay you certainly has an option to withdraw whatever the case may okay I'll make I'll make a motion to um extend the 24244 for um Arnold weara site plan application for 30 days um with the condition that he accepts it do I have a second second okay I have a motion in a second to uh extend a 30-day extension to the where application October 9th October 9th all those in favor say I I I pass is unanimously you do have a form here I'm going to finish oh that ask a question certainly is there any site review or any your your name and address John Shay 530 pson Street yes sir uh is there any uh site plan or anything that I could review or I'm the historical district Commission in this this particular situation is in the historical district so we need to address it that was one of the things that we required him to do was to approach this store approach okay so he hasn't done they did Mr Webby did submit a site plan with a a drawing of U of the outside I think I think was the last was meetings or maybe I think it was they made an appointment and I understand they have noted this one so there's been no communication at all so okay I'm sure that's available for you to look at I don't know if we have it up here but can probably get it in the office we do have one up here if you want to see it don't to do it he not coming back to the 9th right correct yeah okay well I just figured get it done okay well actually you could come back on the 19 right and joh how often do they me there's no set no set time I think that's what told contact yeah contact me we need at the Museum yes we mentioned there meet with you I don't get a DAT in your office at the bottom here yeah come down straight out you know who the bus is don't you get your list of dates if I remember correctly did they finally put a sketch on this one was it was on there or was it a separate sheet it might have separate Chief but he did bring an in at one point whether it's or not you also need a picture of the building propos that's what I'm wondering I don't think not just the sketch of a building has to be thing like across from Davis Garage they came in with a whole plan the whole building yeah that's why we told him that he had to go to you um with that and we wouldn't do anything until he might not have submitted but he did Comm in type of yeah site plan doesn't show any pictures yeah have something sep [Music] I have a question so conditional on his acceptance of it so that would mean that if he doesn't accept the extension right me withdraw right would that means withdrawing well yeah so we would have to withdraw it without prejudice but we should make that well we have to be careful we don't give a constructive that's exactly what I'm talking about all of a sudden I'm just thinking he doesn't accept the the extension we'd have to call meeting to to deny it okay so I I think we should add another motion that if he doesn't accept this by the 9th then we should vote right now to when's the deadline when the 9th it is the 9th is his last day yeah so if we give him this extension and doesn't accept it maybe we choose the motion to extend it to the n9th subject to his signing or deemed denied but we'd have to vote on that so okay so do I make another motion where we already accepted this um we already did this motion but we have can amend it okay we got a vote to amend it that's can I would like to vote to amend the motion that we just voted on do I have a second to allow the mo the motion to amend second okay there's a motion in a second to uh amend the previous vote Yes Amy if you could explain it okay um the reasoning being that they would receive constructive um approval by September 9th if they decided not to accept the um 30day extension yes exactly we wouldn't meet again in time cor correct so um should we vote on the amendment okay so I make a motion do we have okay so um right okay so do we we have to vote to amend it so all those in favor you would have to do yeah we we need to vote to amend it yeah right that's what's on the floor right now okay the amendment not what she's going to do but we vote to allow us to amend yeah we had a motion and a second but we didn't eye it yeah that's correct there's no vote on you just going to explain it first all right I'll I'll ask for a uh a voice Bron I I Amy I myself yes yes yes unanimous all right I'll make a motion to offer 24244 um site plan for WEA at what's the address here um 395 Plymouth Street to con allow them a continuance if they so choose sign it by September 9th for a 30-day extension or I move or or we have um I make part of this or the condition that this board will either accept a um withdrawal by the 9th or it will be an a um a denial denial of the site plan wordy but never had to do that one before yeah okay a motion on the floor do I have a second is's a motion in a second all those in favor of the amendment i i c unanimous okay conditional on exec explain the motion to I was going to Second it just to not have to repeat it yeah extion Contin Town Hall's closed tomorrow so there's basically by exec Tuesday by Monday Monday yeah Monday or withdraw without prejudice or the site plan is denied buy a 5 vote all right somebody want to check me on this [Music] please F okay 30 days is checked off it's today's day on this yes it is no well SE 5th there it is so it's yeah right I can add next to the 30 days that it would be October 9th if they so chose to take it I couldn't see that they're not going to take it you need one problematic for we slide on it before too so should I put October 9th yeah everybody has agreed that I can put that there I me engineer come down something right exactly I know I was even thinking that put so much work stuff into it if he deny years he thank you all right so I'll go put this on the file thank you all right uh that's the first one let's move on to uh second appointment the new hearing for 285 Home Street uh pspr 24-1 site plan review application uh somebody here to speak on the Mr chair I I got to recuse from this oh yeah okay yes just not the log that U Mr mury has recused himself being at 7:24 yes good evening my name is an soes I'm here on behalf of the applicant with me is Jim pck our engineer so this is an application to um change the use of the property we are also proposing to install a stor water management system on the site there is no proposed additional construction to the building or other construction on the property the only um work that is proposed is the installation of the storm water management system itself and then once that has been installed living out some parking spaces the building itself is not scheduled to change in any way we've applied with the Conservation Commission for approval for the storm water management system um their review engineer is reviewing our design we don't have a hearing date from them yet um but I anticipate that we will get one relatively soon we just don't have it yet um I'll speak a bit about the proposed use so the current use that is allowed on the site under the existing site plan approval is a storage use without employees on the property this site is zoned industrial it is in the industrial Zone um is not a residentially zoned property it's industrial what is proposed is a light manufacturing use allowed under the zoning bylaw this is the manufacturer and assembly of signs and traffic control devices and other similar things it is not manufacturing where you take raw materials and you have large pieces of equipment and you machine things or you create things component parts come in and they are connected it is like Tinker Toys are those pipe toys that fit together component part A fits into component Part B with a component part C it's just assembly there would be some welding from time to time but that's not a considerable part of the the scope of work here um it's proposed that um our our tenant has said that he's going to have one employee right he wants to expand the business if he gets site plan review and can commence the business he would want to expand but it's never going to be more than two employees at the site it is not a large volume it is not shift work it is not anything of that nature it is completing orders for specific things uh the proposed hours of operation are from 700 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. everything is done inside the building the assembly would be in the Steel part of the building in the back in the front there would be storage and an office space associated with the use um the deliveries of the component parts are scheduled to occur during the period that they will be open so from 7: to 5: Monday through Friday it's not like a Dollar Tree or a store where you're getting deliveries in the night the deliveries come in when they're there to accept them we have proposed 16 parking spaces the minimum number that's required under the bylaw is 10 but we've thrown in a few extra because this is a tenant it will be a tenant and therefore when their lease is up and perhaps there's somebody new that comes in that has to go through S plan revie again they may need some more parking and since we're laying out the parking now it made more sense to throw in some extra spaces but again it's one employee two maximum um otherwise we're not we're not changing things except to install the storm water management system and perhaps put some more plantings around the sign in the front the existing sign we're not proposing a new sign anything like that um Jim do you want to speak about the storm water management system sure um I don't know can you move it to the yeah that little thing down there at the bottom should do it see if I can for this yeah I just point to the remote I don't know how to work [Music] it do be drag drag is can you that's EAS all right yeah okay um okay this is um we we've provided an erosion incent control plan this um several notes on here to um for during construction to control uh erosion there's currently a um row of hay bales along one of the entrances to the building um and the second entrance uh is over here but just to give you a general layout um the site is sloping from the back towards the front so all of the storm water runoff is directed towards home street and currently there's four um leeching catch basins on the site that are capturing some of the runoff but as I understand in the larger storms there is some runoff that has been flowing out into home street so uh what we've done is to look at the site um the current owner purchased the property in 2020 and it's basic B on our review of aial photographs the back part of the site had been uh treed and there was some other vegetation around the buildings so we went back to that time frame to assess existing conditions for the site so by having more vegetation on the site there would have been less runoff and in this current condition again there's no uh intent to pave the site at this time but um we've sized these basins uh there's going to be two new uh open infiltration basins that would um essentially replace what what is are these little uh catch basins and um so we'll use these existing catch basins to um to pipe the runoff into these larger basins now so we've also uh provided for a uh roof drain uh for a portion of the building that would overflow into the infiltration system and then the majority of the runoff is being captured in this larger base um we've sized them to provide storage for uh to fully contain a 10e storm with no off-site runoff and that's part of the the town's regulations and then in larger storms the 100e storm there would be a an overflow device here oops back yeah one more very sensitive um so yeah this this uh overflow Spillway would allows a very small portion of the runoff to flow out into Home Street uh but in all cases for all of the design storms the two the 10 25 and 100 es storms um we've reduced um the runoff rates and volume well below existing conditions and again I'm going back to that 2019 State when the when the site was mostly vegetated so it's a very conservative design and uh that's why we have the relatively large basins as compared to what had been up there before with just these few uh Lee and catch basins so um that's kind of it in a nutshell uh the parking spaces that we're providing we have three spaces out front and then the majority of the spaces are out back providing a dumpster whoops there we go again can't touch it we have a dumpster over here so um that's kind of it in a nutshell right and I just since we have the screen up I'll just say so then the deliveries of the component and materials there is a doors on the side of the building towards that large hatch Basin and so the deliveries would come in right through there deliver the materials where would that be again could you show with the delivery do yeah you want to go to the photos yeah these are the doors on that side of the building already so they're coming in can you go back to the go back so for deliveries which again are during the operational hours the deliveries are coming in through here because that's where those doors are that's the pattern okay what I'll do is uh I'll open up to questions for members of the boards and then we'll we'll go from there okay what size trucks will be doing the deliveries they're not huge 18 M size trucks they're regular delivery trucks okay like the yes you mentioned you weren't going to pay I assume you were talking about asphalt what are you putting down so currently it's a it's a gravel um base that's out there and that's the intent to keep it as it is so you will have drainage of that yeah um around the basins um these basins would be loaned and seated so we're removing gravel area to construct those basins right I would say when we were here the last time to address the complaint I was I asked a question about whether it would be possible to not pave because there was another applicant that was here and you guys were talking about infiltration and so that's the reason why we're not proposing to pave the parking lot we're going to keep it permeable with the gravel so that there can be more infiltration in that respect so the larger part of the lot that's been completely Tre we will remain just gravel dirt there's no plantings or anything like that you know that would help with the INF water infiltration into the ground no it's not necessary to do that we're going to leave it the way it is because as Jim said he used as his existing conditions what it was like when it was even better and he's designed this to make it an improvement over existing conditions so it's I don't want to say over designed because Jim doesn't know conservative conservative because you have you we full with you the pictures of some of the water run off this coming Brew here right it's a lot of water well you can see they're they're relatively large basins this this Basin is larger than the existing building that's there just for instance uh as far as the building goes itself is it going to be one or in the intention for the future also is one single tenant is going to occupy the whole building or is it going to be subdivided into other businesses down the road you know for this it is one tenant that is taking the whole building as I said he's going to have office and storage in the front office where there's he's going to put a desk where there's the nice Windows um and then the assembly in the steel building in the back I don't think there's any plans on subdividing the building for anybody in the future if we get this approval and we get this tenant then they'll have a longterm lease is all the storage going to be inside the building or will there be outside storage in there would be some outside storage of some of the components from time to time if it doesn't fit inside the um I can't say for sure but it wouldn't be um you know it would be proximate to the building because that's would be more convenient for the person who's doing the work you're not going to want to store stuff 500 ft away from where you need to bring it into the so I guess my my concern is that you know the components are are going to be stored on the property as they're being used assembled and sold it's not a matter of an inventory we going to be out in the in the back of the building so down the road we have a th pieces of equipment sitting out in the back and and Ed when it's needed or when it's called for all right I can I can look into I can get you a better answer in terms of in terms of that brenon any questions for me uh yes have you addressed Lighting on the side we're not making any changes to the lighting there was a complaint that was made about the lights in the back of the building and those lights have been disconnected and it is not proposed to turn them back on um I think there is a light at this top of the exterior stairwell but I think by code we can't turn that light off um but the lights that were in the back of the building as I said have been disconnected and they're not proposed to be turned back on so there if there's a condition to that effect that would be a problem yeah cuz I think the last time we spoke we talked about lighting being shielded or whatnot cuz it really lights up the neighborhood over there yeah so they just disconnected them completely they're not being used so if that's a if that's a condition then hold on one second uh anything else tell Amy you got any further questions not at this time okay I'll uh open it up to the board the questions go through the chair you stand up and uh give your name address and and then uh the board will will will get answers for you your name sir Phil mallister 331 River Street uh how high is the property in the back to the building seems like there's not whole lot space there is the water run off that fast from the back up where the building what is the pitch from the back you said it all pitches and uh flows to the towards home street so what what are you talking for yeah topography levels I believe it's around elevation 86 or so at the back and around 72 at the front it's over over a distance of about 600 ft roughly what is the uh I not a triangle behind the building there you got those double septic system it's going in the back then there's an existing septic system in front um don't touch the screen oh okay so again this is this is uh an erosion and settlement control plan to be used during construction so this is just showing where uh soil might be stockpiled on site um during construction of these basins um temporarily and then removed yes okay get answer anybody else have any other further yes sir your name and address 301 Home Street I have a list of questions um so if we can go forward on one of the next screens keep going so can we read the notes right on the top up there we zoom into that friend you know how to do that yeah thank make sure I don't lose that that is not what wanted to do just don't know how to get to um on the bottom the slide there it is yeah look at you all high right look at this I'm not even an Apple guy yeah I'm a Green Dot guy what do you got so just a stop with the notes number one says that it's not within the Monch of water ship that's a that is not accurate I do have documentation from Mass Mapp that shows that it is well within Monet Watershed through the state's website um so that's inaccurate um I don't know and you say you had information that it was not in correct okay which is it I have five copies for you guys this is the site you can see that this is the outline of the mots at Watershed and that's the property location again outline property location outline property [Music] location got it do you have an extra one for them yeah I'll got this one I'll grab that one I gave him my copy thanks you see where your location is on on that it's right right here this is a location deated version of it just to show kind of closer closer view of it this is the property right here this is the outline of the water thank you for this that's the property got [Music] it right this is the latest that is the most recent one that's from on that 2016 did you Mt pride of that or um I'll have to go back and review it but um from what we had been looking at I the site was not within um the mon Pon Pond Watershed as I understand is a zoning it's it's based on the town's zoning Maps Okay so again surface water protection area zone C the property is within that zone here is it right here y so that's the surf water protection this is right from nas mappa right through the the government what you know St website uh shows Zone c z in the surface water protection oh yeah got them and again right from the corner of the property where they're going to be putting one of the leion basins is also a high yield water AER again located on mass mappa which is the state's site so right on the corner of property where they're going to be put those Lu Basin and hold on Jake what did you say this one was again high high oh the aquer the dark green is the high yield and the low green is the low Yi aquafer by yield okay and then this also shows that the property is within the tributaries to Silver Lake uh Silver Lake Watershed or lake Pond or whatever and mon pond this is all accessible right through mass m I only have four five copies and this shows the area across the street that shows all the the rivers and the uh existing Wetlands or they call that marshlands but yeah if you look through the states I think it's 310 CMI 11 I think it is um it says that the Wetland Marsh is also considered Wetland protection 310 CMR what I think it's 310 CMR 11 okay would it be right in that area of laws yeah either 11 information if it's different or 10.2 okay um and then again the property uh boundary lines are within 100 ft from the [Music] weap the boundaries you said correct and that's the weapon is number number for that is pfo1 -4b D okay so my only concern with that is the notes say that is not within the mon P but clearly I've shown that there's indication that it is within the mon water um so I think this needs to be kind of looked at a little bit more I I know they kind of got over on the last time and they haven't fulfilled their their agreement with the site plan that they supplied the last time which I don't understand why we're not hoping them to comply with that site plan uh the lights I mean all the way down to pictures of property the lights have been turned off but it's not the point the point is they wanted to be put on in first place that's what I look at when the lights are on so disconnect or not that's a view from your house looking at the my house I have no exterior lights that's what my front of my house looks like and this is what I look out to already this is during the the winter time but those are all street signs reflective signs that I look out my front door at so um I mean there's numerous concerns there's been numerous times that my 12-year-old daughter has been out putting my dog on the run and seen some guy pull up to jump out of the truck to take a a leak and observed it it's unacceptable so they need that they need to do something about the water runoff they need to do something about the lighting and you need to do something about privacy I'm not going to be sitting there looking into that yard looking at signs that's a change of my living condition I understand it's their property I'd like to actually talk about the over acre of land that they Disturbed when they took out all the trees so chapter 146 was in effect as of 2019 for the town in chapter 146 also indicates that any disturbance of land over an acre I think it's 43,560 ft supposed to have a stone water management and other plans submitted uh which they did not so I don't understand why we're even entertaining the fact that they're trying to make another site plan without coming in compliance with the original site plan and addressing the issues with the the problem you know the tree removal the gravel the uh soil removal there's no gravel on that property it's all recycled materials that was compacted by a steamroller basically so this it's impervious to in me it's impervious area so they're going to have to come up with a lot more than what they have address any of those oh I would like to guess all them um so to start with the issue with respect to the tree removal um I have been in before the Conservation Commission I appeared the date that he's citing for that via is not in fact when that via became effective I provided them with aerial photographs the issue of the tree removal is not an issue and even if it were it would be an issue for the Conservation Commission Town Council was present at that meeting they do not have an issue with that that is a something that happened in the past it should not be part of this discussion with respect to somebody coming to the property and going to the bathroom frankly if we get site plan approval and we get a tenant on the property the odds of random people coming and pulling up and urinating on it will be drastically reduced right now it is vacant essentially because we're not allowed to have any employees or anybody there so once we so who's using the property I guess I don't know who I don't know who is is being I think he's referring to who's what who's using whatever uses in currently I mean the signs and the he has pictures of signs in the so somebody's using the property um the property is being used for storage as is approved under the original site plan there's no employees there's nobody there so I don't know he had a laundry list of complaints we appeared um my client was not able to come and respond to any of the complaints but a letter was issued at the board's request by the building inspector we've responded to the building inspector's letter and the building inspector has not had an issue or a problem or cited us for anything since that point in time so that's the first thing the second thing is yes there are a lot of complaints about the storm water runup what we are trying to do is solve that problem so to the extent that you know there were issues in the past with the runoff the first thing we did while we were designing this site was put the hay bills in to stop the water from running into the road then we spent a lot of money on an engineer to design something that will address the storm water problem it is going to be before the Conservation Commission their review engineer is reviewing it I'm sure that he will look at whatever information has been presented I'm sure that this gentleman will appear and provide all that information in that Forum as well and they will be the ones that will make a decision as to whether or not this storm water management system is acceptable and appropriate in order for them to issue their permit so some of the wetlands issues I think are more appropriately within their box um but to the extent that you would like us to address some of the documents that he has provided we can take them back take a look at them and come back to you with that information but again we're going to be before conservation we paid the the review engineer fee he is going to be going through this in great detail and we'll make recommendations about it um and again the light have been turned off and if you want to make as a condition of an approval that the lights either have to be removed from the building or remain permanently turned off that is not something that we are opposed to we would agree to something I think that's it one of the um one of the first cases when I first got on was when we were um trying to approve flower and soul and one of the big pieces was some of the plantation around that property in order to Shield some of the abutters view from the uptick and traffic that was going to come around and these giant arbores were negotiated and all that um I think that if one of the things that may help move this along is if there can be some kind of NE I'm offering an an opinion or a suggestion I'm it's not a statement that if some kind of would vegetation be the right word mhm um some kind of planting Arrangement um to block some kind of you know instead of a fence but some Ares or something of that nature to help provide some privacy along with I think the lighting to what you've already suggested just having them disconnected or removed cuz my big concern is always we make all these conditions and then people agree they nod and then they walk out and then there's no or else and then everybody comes back and they go well what are you going to do about it and we go nothing we couldn't do about it so I think we have to start start nipping that in the butt at this stage to say lights got to come off lights got to be disconnected obviously that's an issue you've already suggest that which is great obviously a big concern for the abuts is what they're looking at whether it's people relieving themselves or stuff you know material in the backyard that can be fixed with some arbores that would be my suggestion which would probably knock off a majority of that list and then obviously that storm water adjustment that you guys are in here to talk about is seems like it would make a huge difference but that's what I would I would agree with that St yes Mr M I was going to say would you or your client after you discussed with be uh inclined to maybe converse with the butter and see if we can come up with a plan for blocking I mean I don't that's something you can discuss I'm not asking for an answer right now right no I think I think we could discuss one thing that I would say is you know taking into consideration the fact that if there is it's not a direct AB buding situation right because you have the train because the train tracks so here is their oops here is their property and then this is the the railroad RightWay which is vegetated on either side um so in reality I mean if you look at where the property lines are we we could we could talk with them about it but I'm not 100% sure exactly what would work well you know what sometimes it's just a gesture of good faith goes a long way in a small town right and I think it's um I know that this is been on the agenda quite a few times and we've usually tend to have an uptick in attendance for said conversation so if that is something where as I look out certain people are nodding it might just be an easy way to make everybody happy that and addressing the questions that came up tonight and how they may affect a lot obviously yeah that that's huge we'll we'll look into this further but Mr CH yes sir so again uh my main concern is how they developed a storm water management plan without even knowing that the part at water shed or where they're going to put the leech areas right above a high water Ro well looking into that that would be great if you couldn't also storm water management right off the town's website approved October 21st 2019 but it's not effective it's not effective as of the date of approv so it says right here this Bol law shall apply to all land disturbing activities project that may result in a land disturbance equal to where greater than one acre so if they're not going to use that area they should remove all that impervious area and put it back to vegetation they've already stated they're not going to be using that area I mean right now there's a bunch of unregistered Vehicles parked stuff way out back it looks like a junk yard so get rid of that stuff that's problem in that there only allowed one unregistered vehicle that has to be behind the building we cover how many you back at least three I mean if I talked about trailers in boats which are considered Bo Vehicles there's probably about a half dozen they've been slowly getting rid of I mean as start of pitches probably a dozen un registered vehicles but they been slowly getting rid of them so on my market that's a concern you're saying that there's six now yeah roughly yep so anything with a VIN number is considered motor vehicle so trailers boats do you have an air like I think you had a bird's eye view picture can I see that I have all the way back away from 2019 this is 2024 these are over here now but they're all back now uh let me find 2022 they bought the property I think it's December 2020 was 20121 so here's April of 2020 you can clearly see this all the vegetation and then I mean yeah I property not gravel whatsoever and and as she just pointed out there there is visitation on the on the railroad side closest to your problem but on this side yeah I mean some weed growing but nothing they they took out everything they took out didn't leave any buffer zones or anything like that they totally clear cut which they can do whatever they want with their trees but yeah thank you I remember when it had I certainly can't speak to what happen in that context but I can say that the existing for property that approve depicts the back end of the as it is currently in existence and says it is a gravel yard so we already have an that was for the addition to the building which was approved so we're not proposing to make any changes to that area which is an existing approved gravel yard pursuant to the site plan approval that is currently in effect all we are proposing to do here is change the use inside the building to get a tenant in there so that someone can occupy it and once the property is leased to a tenant to the extent that there are other things being stored there or whatever ORD doesn't have a right to do that the tenant takes occupancy of the property so um once there's an approval for a tenant to be in possession of the property to operate the use in this industrially zon property and this and the storm water is corrected we think it will be an overall Improvement than what's currently been out there and currently been happening my question is it is this system or the storm water management system that you designed uh but like was mentioned it the PO that is in the water watershed area was it designed for that or was not designed for that um cuz if it turns out it it's shown that it say just for example it is in the watershed area and and whatnot would it would your whole system have to be redesigned the pre and post calculations wouldn't change some basins would still be relatively the same size we might have to add some pre-treatment Sy systems um sediment for Bay or water quality tanks something like that if it if it is in fact part of the one HS it on water shed but these the other um these other Maps I don't think would affect the design at all so that's something that we need to look into the mon of water that' be great appreciate want you to come back and tell us something yes I had a question Mr just stand your namey 31 stre okay thank you sir I have a question when you say pre and post what do you mean by that what do you mean by pre like before they cleared all the land and all that yes it was all full of trees and LOM and everything and the water just sunk right in the ground never even made it anywhere then they stripped over an acre of land probably close to 50,000 s ft not more every ounce of LOM off the whole property proper not just that area but around the building everywhere they they had Landers there for 2 and 1/2 days or the 6y load loading all the LOM out of there well over 2,000 yards stri not didn't leave a bit of Lo on the property and they brought in reprocessed they call it gravel but it's not gravel it's recycled asphalt cement brick crap that's all the stuff that Landers makes that they can't Market anywhere else they cover the whole property with that and they keep calling a fous material it is not ferious I've been using the stuff myself for since I invented it 20 something years ago it turns to Iron they compacted with a big vibratory compactor it does not they keep I keep on hearing this water going to perious material there's no perious material in the whole site it just and it's like a 3% grade from the back of the poy to the front and in a heavy rain I've seen it hit the town's catch space up front so high to look like a fountain that's how bad the water mon off so you're saying that these detention basins and a heavy rain like I've seen more than once we get you know there's videos of from the uh the highway surveyor that they're going to handle all that water yes even you know and you keep talking about perious gravel there is no perious gravel so that just you know get that right out of your mind that's not it's not there no no there's no gravel on the lot believe me have so you spend a lot of just I'm sorry Mr CH do you spend a lot of time on on my client's property no I never go on your client's property okay but I can see it I have a bird's eye view right across the tracks I can see I watched the whole operation from the day they sat I myself worked on the property when Jim Black originally put the first building up like even these little leech basins that you keep showing on these plans for the drainage they were never on a plan they were never there Liddell themselves put them in without any approval without any plans brought to the town or anything put these leeching basins random in which make no sense to me and all these designs you keep coming up with keep showing them as existing leech and basins now how do you get away with us so that means anybody in town can go put Le and Bas into the property and then design the system and use them I don't understand why they're even they should just be abandoned use they were never approve they were never they weren't pre-existing they put them all in after they bought the property and cleared everything okay I can speak to that because those are on the plans that we had from before we purchased the property so I'm not sure exactly where they weren't on they weren't there when they purchased a proper they put themselves watch but that is not in fact the case and um you know again we're again talking about a situation that happened in the past and I I can refer you I've been before the Conservation Commission Town Council was present they did not cite this as an improper removal that triggered anything um the tree removal in the past I cannot speak to what this Gent gentleman is saying in terms of his statements about the condition of the property but it is my understanding that it is gravel I have in there I have seen the gravel Oh I thought you said you just saw you just had Aerials of it do you have you have actually yourself been there I have been I've live in Clinton I took the train I have been there yeah um but you know again what we are proposing is something to address the situation on the property this is an intent to correct the drainage problem and it has been designed conservatively as if the area we still vegetated to accommodate all that water runoff it is not an attempt to you know spt the rules or do something less this is a more extensive more expensive system than somebody who's operating less conservative we might put in and again it'll be reviewed by the town review engineer and if he has comments changes suggestions we'll certainly make them yeah I I could just add again going back to the original uh discussion on the design so anytime we're as you know designing a site we look at existing conditions versus the proposed development and we use the existing conditions the runoff that is generated from the existing conditions to compare that to the post-development conditions and we have to size the storm water features to um to uh handle the increase in runoff so we didn't look at the site as it's all gravel and I'll use the word gravel I'm tell reprocessed gravel it's not gravel it's reprocessed material it's a reprocessed material it doesn't it does not water does not penetrate especially when you have like a % great so again we we've used very conservative uh runoff curve numbers that are input into the system um so we we treated this this uh back portion of the lot as all being treed in in its natural vegetation State um and we accounted for the conditions of the site back in around 2019 based on the aerial photographs that we reviewed so we we were using Woods portions of this front area we also uh had some vegetation around it so we accounted for all of that in the existing condition so in 2019 the the leaching area that he was talking about that was added it was there when you were calculating or the the the existing uh leech and catch Basin we haven't um accounted for that in any way shape or form in terms of controlling runoff for the site we're just using them as a collection system to get the runoff into the new basins so we're not we're not accounting for that um as any type of storage it's just as a collection system right so the design is the is the design that's shown on here we're not relying on anything that was existing on the property all right so we're just going to use those existing catch basins um to get the runoff into these basins so we're going to be piping it into these basins um we also looked at your concern about the condition of the gravel being hard packed gravel so the runoff curve numbers that we're using in the developed condition is based on that it um it's it's it's a high percentage of runoff that's almost almost like it's paved the number theun number is not that much different from if we had just used you know previous plans they've shown um they had a pave area up front that leeched into the perm material around which I had an argument with that before because the engineer didn't see a problem with it they had everything pitches right the street all paved and it goes into and there's no place for it to go but on the street actually on the State website it shows imperious the whole front of that property is imperious well even the original plan where you have that small Basin on the left side of the building they showed and move move and replace there for a they're going to put some kind of underground drain as there before you know a previous plan that actually went out for review um it was all underground which I think I think this is stupid if you ask me cuz you you're losing all that area you have for to use the property instead of putting everything underground you know so it was underground before but that you know that plane was went off a review and I I don't really remember I think had P had a couple of conditions I think much and uh they had another area catching all the run off from the back uh before it even got to the building or most of it but anyway that's you know whatever they want to do that to the property knock yourself out I just think it's you know a waste of of a property but anyway that you know if that if that place was done right they would have g a removal permit and mined out the whole backyard and everything pitched to the back have a retention Bas help back that would have been a smart thing to do yes sir Noe I'm I'm going to go last no okay oh come on so I'm always uh trying to figure out the best solution so that both both parties can be happy so that you're not on our agenda anymore right um respectfully so um one side from what I'm hearing and please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm hearing um addressing storm water runoff lighting and privacy and you guys are in here to talk about the storm water runoff for approval for occupancy this seems like a pretty easy problem to fix if that really does solve the storm water runoff right cuz if we if this proves through engineering that that solves the big one and then you can figure out the lighting and then negotiate with the abutters some privacy vegetation stamp and stamp and go so just to bring it all full circle for what our next steps are that we're trying to get approved I'm a checkless guy so that seems like a unless I'm missing something and I'm not yeah the only thing I certainly agree with you the only thing with the big question mark is that it it's 180° different yes it is in the wed no it isn't you know how that affects it yeah it has to affect I would imagine one way or the other so uh but I think that would be a part of yes 100% the number one problem which is the storm water runoff so will you get that addressed prove that this is what it going to do what it says it does the lightings get disconnected and stay disconnected and removed even better just out of good faith and then you get some privacy negotiations I think hopefully this would solve everybody's problem so that you can have the occupancy and the abuts can go back to living in the property that they originally bought so what's the pleasure of the board we uh continue this and until we get some answers but I don't know if conservation is uh you said had the peer review come in who is that uh yeah who is that engineer patg yeah well uh I don't I don't know how long it would take him to come up with the he us pretty quick yeah determination but he's already conservation is already uh have that in the works so to speak yeah we paid the check oh good that always helps all right yes sir can I assume that you're going to investigate and see all of those supplies and are new communication that uh we haven't heard from him yet but you know I assume he'll find it but in case he doesn't it should be brought up cuz we're going to bring it up just to try to save a step here sure I guess if I could just ask so um would you be willing to have us come out so that we can see from your property to this property so then we can talk about what kinds of plantings might be appropriate your call maybe you're welome take a look sh thanks some of these fixes are pretty easy I would suggest that you propose to take the lighting down so there's no impulse to turn it on it be nice or you me I've been back and forth with that's been working on the property he's been running his business or whatever he sent me a picture of he put a piece of tape across it it said like you turn this light on go that F home something like that so but it still kep getting turned on well a couple clipped wires will do wonders I'm sure what's the pleasure of the board we continue this to uh give them the at a lotted amount of time to do their due diligence you need some time or would you rather contact us when it would be uh convenient as long as do thank you you're meeting in two weeks right on the 19th the 19th do you think you can I guess be question of addressing it where is our calendar how many days have well I know I was going to ask I don't have the application in front of me to know what date that they applied I think yeah I think we could come back on the 19th but then if something happens and he's not quite ready I could come back request another did you recall the date of the application you know where for the site plan yes was August 6 we need so 45 days so 25 20 days it'll be the day after our next planning board 45 days from August 6th okay do you want to put in for an extension just to the 45 days from August 6th will be August um sorry September 20th okay so if I if we come back on the 19th and we need more time can we just sign on the 19th yeah or you can ask for an extension now and still come back on the 19th if you have it but at least if you ask for the extension now you're you're good if it does take longer you know what I mean because like let's just say we didn't have a quum and now we're not extended or I would just say it as a safety you want so where that would be a 30-day extension would get you to oober 20th so 45 brings you to November 4th why don't we try for October 20th okay so you want a 30-day extension yes okay do we need to vote to allow that or she's here so we'll just agree to it or we need to vote on yeah we can vot a motion to um allow a site plan extens um extension for ps- 24-1 for 285 M Street for 30 days you like a second second I have a motion in a second uh to approve 30-day extension on the application all those in favor say I I I I unanimous 40 so you'll need to um get with the secretary and have that filled because we don't have um another application form okay so we can do that on Monday right she's not here yeah cuz you hav't until the night the TW yeah and we'll uh we'll continue till uh the first available appointment on what what's the date the 19th the 19th October 19th no September 19th September 19th yes it's Thursday today's Thursday how am I doing we doing all right I try I believe you're doing great all right thank you so very much thank you thanks guys cool all right uh what else do we got all right I'm back do you guys have all of those do you guys have a copy yes yeah Ian can have my pile just in case I was going to say what was that last one that they did not he only had yeah I gave them oh got it I gave it to awesome thank you everything everything we have you have yeah thanks all right uh next on our agend is just the uh the minutes that we approved we have to sign in we just need to uh first one for uh have a good night 11 [Music] 11 and the other is for August 1st that we approved we just have to sign you got a pen okay would you like a motion to be adjourned oh I don't think soj that would be great okay motion to adjourn till September 19th 2024 at 700 p.m. second we have a motion a second to adjourn all those in favor say I I passes I oh here was up this one oh you [Music]