##VIDEO ID:bxbONI93LoA## it's uh 7:00 I'll open up the meeting of the Halifax planning board uh being uh being done at 499 Plymouth Street and Halifax uh at the uh selectman's meeting room this is Thursday October 17th 2024 at uh 7 p.m. uh make notice that it's an open meeting and uh the planning board meeting is recorded by area 58 and can be reviewed on YouTube uh list over the manner all right might as well get right into it let's get into the first one uh oh it's continued 24- s-244 Ana site plan review application for map 73 lot 7A Plymouth Street uh I don't see anybody here for that no uh the dates are um in November so we're good yeah we did that the last meeting I think it's like no and at the last meeting no 19th or 20th didn't he uh didn't Joe say that he uh actually got a chance to meet with uh actually John Chay from the historical and his uh he was relatively happy with it uh as long as the front was claps or whatever I know he had some information on it but uh did we receive a letter from no no I know that they met the night before our last planning board meeting which would have been October second right I was in as far as I know I haven't seen anything go by that said anything specific yes bad good you know whatever so well let's put them up maybe maybe they'll show as long as as long as they're known that they have an extension then they can kind of just show up yeah all the way to the last dat right I know this has been kind of a odd thing all right uh let's move on then to uh uh the continuation of uh 285 Home Street uh pspr 24-1 site plan review application updated plans were delivered to the office of the planning board on 107 uh 24 hi Ann how are you I thank you so um so we have revised the plans the Conservation Commission engineer had plans our engineer discussed them with him made these Provisions followed up with um and as a result after we filed those plans the um the Conservation Commission forie Engineers submitted a letter dated October 8th where he confirmed that all of his concerns had been met and he noted um he noted in the conclusion that the proposed storm water system will result in less runoff into Home Street than what was flowing to home street prior to the building addition and the clearing of the rear lot and I don't know if you guys got a copy of that I have an extra copy of the letter that went to the K Kong I think she was hoping to get one from but I don't know should go I think there is one in here that was from the uh wasn't one in here this is the one from uh September 11th uh 2025 regarding 2 85 Home Street uh did everybody get a copy of this one no uh I'll read it uh thank you you want to read it what you want uh thank you September 11th this is a Halifax Highway and Cemetery Department uh Steven Haywood Highway sea 60 Hemlock Street did you get a copy of this in the September 11th one yes we responded to that yeah all right thank you for addressing the issue with stone water runoff of 285 home street we did not have this issue before the addition and the back parking lot uh were enlarged the owners did make a couple improvements that helped delay the water going across home street but we still get a good amount of runoff flowing across home street during and after larger rain events I would rather see the two overflow spillways directed anywhere other than Home Street as I said we do not have an we did not have this issue before and then he had a couple of diagrams on it is that the one you you have in front of you I would rather the spillway directed back to an area on the site not to go on a home street if the MBTA is okay with it direct the Overflow and some of the back parking lot to their ditch next to the tracks sincerely Steve Haywood right no so we responded in our response in the engineers response letter that was also submitted on October 7 to um to that letter from the highway surveyor um he as those plans are revised water is not being directed to home street in the ordinary course um and I spoke with representatives of the state they will not permit us to discharge our water onto the MBTA that request is has been denied um but no I was speaking to the letter from pgb engineering the review engineer for the concom the one that you had that your engineer no pgb all right confirmed that all of the concerns that he had that engineer the town engineer had about the system were addressed in those revised plans and he confirms at the end in the last sentence that this design is going to result in there being less water run off to home street than there was before any anything was done on this property so as designed before I know there's been a lot of discussion about the tree removal he includes in the last paragraph before the building addition and before the tree removal what is going to home street if this is constructed will be less water than before any of that happened so if you want to think about it as before a 2019 conditioning if we do this there'll be less water going to the road than there would have been in 2019 okay I I have a question uh the the drainage that uh was installed by uh Liddell by uh 285 uh when was that done I I don't know what I mean we don't have a plan of the property that cre that's my point when it was from my understanding from when it was installed there was no plan it was just installed and I believe in order to comply with conservation and state requirements it has to be inspected beforeand now as far as I know as far as I know the the the last hearing and information I I was privy to was your meeting of the planning board back on uh June 17th 20121 when the site plan was approved it was loaded on uh it did uh in in bottom line I guess what I'm trying to find out is after this uh June 17th 2021 when the planning board approved it is that when the drainage uh ditches the two uh drainage places on on the in front of the building if if that was done afterwards no I I don't believe that to be the case that I I honestly couldn't say what I can tell you is that this design based on a comment from the town's review engineer this design as revised and as he has no further comments to it doesn't include those catch basins as part of the system so this this proposal is is a brand new proposal with to bring everything to current exact to Sol I mean there was complaints about the drainage we're trying to solve the drainage it sounds like from that that letter the the conservation commission's own engineer has confirmed that there is going to be less water run off to the street if we install this so we're trying to solve the problem and he had no further comments I would think from under remembering what you were talking about and then where we are now is if this is the newest plan to be brought up and our own Town's Engineers saying this is going to solve all water problems then I don't mean to say who cares what was done in 2021 cuz it does it should have been following the letter of the law this is going to be the new and improved plan and our engineer says this is going to solve everything then right in my head I'm kind of checking that whatever reason in 2021 it was one of one of the board members who had refused himself cuz he was a butter suggested that there'd be a a storm water review in a site plan review in it was voted not to you know which which I'm wondering if if it was before the catch Basin were installed if it was if it was done at that time during the meeting like you said it maybe could have solved this whole problem uh but uh that might it might have changed with the addition but but still it would have been better than not and also even if even if it could have been done better that that um cost was assumed by the owners and so now they're basically being forced to redo it to solve that problem so at the end of the day I don't I mean if that's something that the owner of the property is willing to do then that's on them that's not as far as I'm concerned well depending on the catch B's flow in direction or whatnot uh there quite the requirements from I understand from conservation as far as depth and and all kinds of qualifications that but if they move forward with this doesn't everything then have to be inspected upon completion right so we would not have be able to just install it and walk away so to clean this up I don't and I'm and I'm probably missing something but if this is what the engineer has approved moving forward what does it matter before this well only because there was a set of criterias that was requested by the planning board back in 20121 that they would meet and they haven't you know as far as Landscaping will take of that as far as the water runoff I think four hay bills at the time did not solve the problem and uh the emission of any kind of uh storm water management or site plan review was was uh wasn't necessary evidentally at the time so if we move let's say all things and this is a hypothetical question for everybody really if we decided to move forward with this what would the protocol be in order to make sure that the requests and requirements that we're asking of this plan are met to 100% they have to be right I couldn't agre to your point if that was the case before and they weren't so now bring it in the past I I understand so I guess the bigger question and I and I don't think it's open for interpretation it's just what is the process to make sure that when we if we approve this the review engineer the review engineer okay yeah so somebody dropped the ball in 2021 maybe um but if this is the new one well they they made the applicant made promises is the word that was used you know that they would if there's a problem we'll take care of it and that was enough for the board at the time and obviously that never happened you I can just say I was not involved from that application in 2021 but i' I've seen the plan that was approved that signed from 2021 and it doesn't have anything on it as a it doesn't have anything like this on it at all nothing like that it was just they word that they' take care of it if something happened and the decision that was issued doesn't have anything in it either so I don't I don't know I only know what one of the major reasons over the at least the three years I've been here that we stick to a new unwavering process so that everybody has the same stipulations and the same regulations so that it isn't like a well he like patted me on the back and winked and said I'll take care of it's like yeah well no offense but accusations of people are working for somebody and it's not anybody's right I mean at the end of the day you know that if there's rules and guidelines then they're going to hold themselves to it and if there aren't in writing then it goes then make me so this new one since you've been involved and now that we're here it seems to be much more in line with the actual due process Amy how how long take letter is that is it something that should be read into the uh I will read it into all three PTI all right hunkered out folks here we go I think it's important that it's in the record it's on the can I ask has this been approved by conservation yet no we're before them next Tuesday okay they told me at the last meeting that I needed to make sure that you all were okay with the plan before they would put I'm in a little bit of a catch 20 too so they won't do anything until you guys say that you don't have any further comments we we need to have some conversation with concert yeah we call this the hamster wheel of death yeah that's actually the catchphrase I came up with two years ago for this project protocol and all live with yeah they did put me on the agenda and I told them I was meeting with the but what we don't want to have happen is everybody doing this right cuz then the then the person gets stuck in the middle right yeah well again I mean if conservation is okay with their part and then they came to the planning board and we made sure that the lighting was okay the Landscaping was okay conservation's okay bard of house okay and all the other boards are okay then we can okay the final plan but for them to say you approve the plan and then we'll approve this when this might not be approved and then it has to Wing back to us that makes zero sense so I do think it's it's under a certain part of it though is also is everybody's almost too polite we're like well we're good with it but don't go to go to the planning board and make sure they're good with it and then you come to the planning board and we're like is conservation okay with it and okay well if they're okay so it's almost like we're being too polite where it should be like here here here here final that that's what I'm getting we need to establish a protocol here all the boards are on in line with so and for my own particular vote something that with this particular application with there been that that many problems with it I for my vote I would not be comfortable approving a plan like this contingent upon conservation contined upon B Health yeah you know what I mean I yeah this is this is I don't disagree this is involved I think the site plan encompasses all of the other boards and therefore the site plan should be the last thing checked off before you read that can I play Devil's Advocate because I'm just curious sure it's not that I don't agree with you we say we're not willing to approve with the condition or contingent upon the conservation and then they go to conservation and conservation goes everything looks good but we're not willing to approve without the you know we're not going to vote to approve with the condition of the planning board approving and now here we are again so why if everything looked good why wouldn't we feel comfortable saying on our end we're good upon the approval of the conservation so that on Tuesday when she goes in she goes it's not approved they're saying they look good as long as you feel it's good because we haven't had that talk yet about who goes first right and what's on second right so I don't know who's that would be right I don't know they told me I can't even have a hearing to get the permit until I'm not I they've told me that I can't have the actual hearing with the notices to go to the abutters scheduled yet until what I'm trying to get at is um when any business whether they're local or coming in or any Resident local or coming into to the town it seems like when they come in front of these boards it almost makes us look unorganized it almost looks makes us look like we don't know what we're doing or we're winging it when it's like we're here we're doing this we know what we're asked to do we've got something from our Engineers saying this is the best plan you guys have ever seen with this and conservation is saying we'll put you on our thing but you got to go to the planning board first that's what they did and now we're going well I wouldn't feel comfortable with that until they approve it and it's just going to keep ping ponging back and forth and I just just don't understand where the disconnect is to be able to put a contingency in there if we app if we feel confident in this project I I think the planning board takes a look at the overview of the whole thing and decides if it works or not based on what's presented and and to your point at least I think the point you're trying to make is I'm not all that uncomfortable personally having been on both sides of this to to approve subject two um because it's got to start someplace right right and and anything that they do that changes from any of this they have to come back for a revision anyway if what she's about to read into record is that our own engineer that works for the town says this is awesome then why are we kicking it back to conservation that's already kicked it over to us to see what we think why wouldn't we just put our foot down and make a a a stance here to say we did our due diligence and this is what we say well this is conservation due diligence so if cons so like everybody has a piece of the puzzle like the plan is the whole right but then you have conservations piece and then you have B house piece and it all makes the whole so you fill up all the different boards that are in the town and it fills up the whole plan so conservation concentrates on conservation mhm and then they send it in to us and they say we've done this mhm we had our hearing everything's good there you go right and then it makes the whole plan it's almost like having all the pieces of the puzzle Y and then the site plan incompasses all the pieces of the puzzle so when they're all done and every other piece you know Board of Health the whole nine I don't need to go through them yeah I get they go through it all highway the and everybody sends in their comments cuz it goes right back to the site plan application where they're supposed to send in the plans with all of the different pieces and then there's 30 days for all other boards to give comments and then that's where we can figure out whether Steve's okay whether the police are okay whether the assessors have everything written everybody gets and it sends the information into the planning board and then where the whole that's like putting the the last piece of the puzzle making sure that everything is all checked off got it so where the problem lies is when everybody that's holding their piece of puzzle goes I'm not giving you my piece until you give your piece but see that's the opposite way it should go I didn't ask how how it's supposed to go I'm talking about how it's going but this is when we say that's what I'm saying so then we should be firm and say we're the final sign off on everything okay so so we're going to go after reading this in a record cuz to my understanding is that with this site plan one of the major things that's getting in the way of approval is this water drainage report and all the water runoff and all storm drainage and all that stuff right right the engineer although for conservation is saying this sat this new plan satisfies that okay this has been peer reviewed yes this is this is review okay which we usually say we're not going to even look at something unless we peerreview it so this has been peer-reviewed our engineer has said that the water's all taking care of conservation saying we're not going to hear you until the planning board does it so it's ass backwards and then we're waiting on everybody to give us their pieces but nobody wants to give us their piece so like what an just got through saying was if they won't even give her an appointment at conservation until the planning board signs off how are we going to get all the other boards to sign off and then have it brought to the planning board when they're not even going to be able to get a to sit in front of them and explain it to them it's not unreasonable for us to approve it subject to confirmation from conservation that's where that's where this all started and I wasn't trying to harp on what you said cuz I understand it's very involved right but I feel like if we did vote if if assuming that it's all at face value but if we didn't V like let's say we we liked it but the only thing holding up was the final approval of conservation well we should vote that way and say we appre approve this so that they can move forward so that they can get all the other pieces right it really makesense I actually disagree and then the other kicker is is the same thing with I'm sorry to keep going back to your but and comes out today and says no one of the drainage is completely declined by the MBTA so if it's on our plan that it's going to that half of it's going to drain through over across the street onto the MBTA yeah catch Basin that throws a monkey wrench in everything that was from September 11th not from October 7th so this plan has nothing to do with September 11th from Steve Hayward this this plan is from our own approved by our own engineer based off the new stuff is what I'm saying right so so there was some there was some the the Conservation Commission the towns review engineer identified some issues with the previous plan and our guy corrected them and one of those issues that was identified by the town engine was an error in the elevations that were on the plan that made it look like water was going towards the street and so it seems like the town's Highway person P picked up on that and was pointing out that it shouldn't go to the street well that was an error that has been corrected and from the letter from the town's review engineer on the eth he notes that that has been corrected right it was the spot elevations around the catch Basin were not were not like fully delineated so if you looked at it it looked like it might be going that way but it is not and it is corrected and he noted that in his comment so so to not to overp during this meeting but I'm just really having a hard time after all this time and I know some of you have been on these boards much longer than I have but if if we don't put our foot down to change something like if if nothing changes nothing changes so although moving forward we should be having a conversation about getting all the pieces and where the final stop where this sits right now we're doing this so if we at least do our due diligence I would feel comfortable going we did our we took care of our end no we don't but we have to be contingent upon I'm on board with you at this point I think we should also consider at a future date to maybe either even have a joint meeting with the conservation and and and iron this out and let's get a protocol here something something if I could just throw out at something that has nothing to do with my client's project years ago in my town we had to flowchart a guy came and he did like this flowchart and he said if somebody's making this application first they go to a and then they go to B and then they go to C and all the boards signed off on following that flow it's just a thought I well it kind of already put the spot it kind of already is like cuz our site plan application as you have seen because you probably helped Liddell fill it up correct so if you're sending the information all into the planning board and all the other boxes need to check off the only thing we're missing from that exact site plan application well no we're we're actually not well it we could be a little bit more concise but it states that everybody needs to give the planning board within 30 days all their comments and reviews so that would assume that everybody would be here cuz right now I believe that we need to get notification from Highway to say we've looked at this new plan and we're okay and that would Happ happen and then St and then conservation would do it and then border house would say we have no issues and then so on and so forth down the line so that we can have all of the documents come here and then they're in the planning board file and that's how we we make sure that all of the boards have gone through if we let if we let it go with contingencies how are we to know that everything's going to be set up correctly cuz the cuz the conservation would have to do their due diligence on their part knowing that we've done our part and that they have to make sure that they check all their boxes in order to approve and again back to the same thing how do they get an appointment with conservation without a you coming from the planning Bo we need to establish a protocol exactly but in the meantime we're in this thing I think we write them a letter and say from the planning board we need you to do your due diligence so that we can sign off on the total plan and just point them in that direction currently by saying the whole plan needs to be done so please conservation I don't have a problem with that for future stuff I think right now we're stuck in a rug here this is how we get rid of this now is we send a letter to conservation that says we need you to sign off and we need and we need all the other boards to send in all of their documents so that we have it in and it's one place and conom says no we don't want you to do it you say that's not the process because the site plan has everything comeing into the planning board it's not about control it's about the fact that there's a puzzle that needs to be done so I'm just talking about where we are right now so also if the engineer it has said makes AR sense cuz it's still this way but if the engineer is writing a letter wouldn't the highway department lean on the engineer CU what is a and I mean Steve hayward's a saint like a staple in this town right so I'm not saying anything negative about him but if an engineer who does engineering says this is how all the arrows and all the numbers line up what is what is a a highway surveyor going to do other than go and walk around and go again and the same thing with with a previous application you know when there was say quote unquote what was determined or not determined to be a substantial change that it would have to come back as a substantial change if if fact we approved this in and it's not what we approved you know they uh they changed it whatever was you know it's just backwards that way to your point Amy yeah it's just everybody should be checking the boxes and coming back to us right unfortunately they're going we're not going to do anything until planning board gives a thumbs up because we need to tell them we need to say no you need to do this to finish the hole and so by letting them continue to do it we're just continuing down the road like this I think that we say and I will make a motion let's make a a a I'll make a motion to send a letter to conservation that go through with their approvals so that we can look at the plan as a whole and not have reapplications for modifications for the whole entire plan if they changed something and we still haven't gotten all the pieces of the puzzle this is this is before the new plan so Heywood needs you know not I don't mean to put it to him but the highway department needs to send in to us board Health needs to send into us the so can we make a motion if you're going to make that motion then it can't just be to conservation okay all the board it's got to be okay we will move forward and you should get on anything that you need to get on in order to get us that puzzle piece y so it's probably not the result you were hoping for tonight but if we can make some progress of like like well they're not just a circus in there just everybody point you know every clown pointing at the other clown then maybe we can by the way I'm I'm one of the clowns so I want to be very clear I'm not calling anybody else that but I just think that if we're not comfortable moving forward because we don't have all the pieces but nobody else wants to give up their piece then the motion needs to be that we get all the pieces and we have it in writing and we send each one of those board chairs an official letter from us saying we cannot move forward until you approve so please don't send them back to us okay I will second that motion oh yeah that was a motion I motion what everything I just said I just think if we're going to move forward moving forward to figure out the the pecking order or the due process the motion should be that we need to send a letter to every chair of every Department that is required in order for us to make an educated decision to move forward and ask them to please make a decision to give us all the information we need to make a decision all right uh the only kicker the only problem I have with that is that that issue that you're talking about in the motions and whatnot really has nothing to do with the application in front of us it does it this the application in front of us is the is whether we approve it or not or review it or not or find problems with it it the topic itself about the pecking order in the something we do separate is something yes it's done separate than an application that's in front of us can it be done at the same time is the question right can we can we approve this with the contingency of the other boards and then say moving forward we're not doing anything until you guys prove everything I myself I would think no I think it's a separate issue it's protocol it's procedure it's nothing to do with the application in front of us I I think that's a good idea what you just said you know if we can review this and and as far as the planning board goes and our duties and what we're responsible for we review it we can we can uh approve it or not approve it depending on the votes and uh as as to what's in front of us and then I think I I would have no problem at all after the application that's what I mean go to proed I say at the same time I don't mean in the same I like the flo chop idea to be honest with you I do I'm not by the way let me clarify I'm not saying at the same time in the same vote I'm saying in the same time like tonight like we vote on this right proving that we've done our stuff because usually most people come in with no when we do we we have to right because he's not making a motion to approve or deny you haven't even I cut you off before you had a chance to read the thing in because I'm trying to get some get something tangible here but once this is done tonight the next order of business needs to be yes chairman writing a letter to the other chairman and getting the flowart pick somebody to go to the individual board at a meeting and present the case I I think that's more yeah I'm looking at you cuz you like to do that stuff well um I think that it's we have a planning board meeting right here and we can all write the letter and send it to them that it's pretty simple the site plan application checks everything off going here and says every board report to the planning board within 30 days it already states that the planning board is to collect all the information if we get it when I was vice chair and I was running and going around I made sure that everything went around to every single board and within 30 days we had all the um documents in how do you make them do that you send it out and you say within 30 days out any kind of thing but you can't make them do it so send in 30 days I think it has to be proposed to the SEL if they don't send anything to you what do you do then they don't have any comments okay well they didn't send anything to us so they have any comments days well we have this does he know there's a new plan yeah did they actually get the the plans in the all the other in all the other departments yes so if they don't send it we we we approve basically bottom line what do we know about conservation you know storm water engineering and whatnot we dep we depend on WE depend depend on them we have a motion on the floor unless you want to I'd like to retract it because I think it was set out of turn I agree I I think what we do is if we I'm going to it was in the wrong I'm going to make a motion we approve this plan subject to confirmation from conservation after that we make a motion to do what we just talked about doing with the other that would be a separate matter separately I don't want to do it first because then that throws this into that all right well let's first before before I accept the motion and we would in a second to vote on it let's go yeah let's go through what if you wouldn't mind reading that into the record this is exactly my point the vice chair just made a motion without even reading the storm water permit out loud that we were going to do like I think that the information needs to be given to us I don't know why we're deferring our job as elected officials for the town that site plan review is is specific and states exactly what's supposed to happen we could put a line here that says planning board is the last to sign off and clear up everything possible that's the only thing that I believe needs to be added to that application but it's really a given where the planning board supposed to receive all the information to give the full plan I mean it's really that simple you can't have a plan with one part over here and not over here and not over here andent age with anything you're saying but none of that's in place but it is in place but nobody's complying with it that's because there's a lot of things going on that aren't going right and all we need to do is State hey conservation do your job and send it into us and hey Steve are you done it's called communication that's exactly what needs to happen and it's very easy and that is our job but in the meantime everything's stuck in the mud because all we need if they can't get an get a hearing get an appointment until it's in let's read this in how are we supposed to be able to evaluate and an an engineer's uh findings or yes no good I don't I don't think that is part of the planning boards we're not asking to for it to be part of the planning board's job that you're asking for us to approve it no I'm not asking yes you said it has to come in before we sign anything off it has to come to the planning board and that's the approvals from not our the approvals from each board the approvals from each board need to come in before we sign off could you please read that into the record I absolutely can thank you very much pgb engineering sent to the Halifax conservation on the subject 285 Home Street storm water permit dear conservation Commissioners this is to advise that we have reviewed the following documents in support of the proposed work to correct rage issues at 285 Home Street site plan review and storm water management permits plan seven sheets revised September 25th 2024 prepared by fuss and O'Neal storm water management report revised September 25th prepared by fuss and O'Neal response to comments let letter dated October 7th 2024 prepared by F and O'Neal the documents have been prepared to address comments contained in our September 10th 2024 to the commission below are the comments from our September 10th letter in plain text followed by the current status of each in bold text one the proposed catch Basin is shown to be piped into one of the existing leeching catch basins and then piped from the leeching catch Basin into the infiltration Basin catch Basin to catch Bas configurations should not be allowed as the flow through the second catch bation excuse me catch Basin allows sediment to become resuspended and carried to the infiltration basis Basin bold addressed the discharge pipe from the proposed catch Basin is now shown to discharg directly into the infiltration Basin parentheses sediment forb and parenthesis two we also note that the existing leeching basins are shown to be piped directly into the infiltration ation Basin with no treatment additional treatment should be provided including at a minimum a hood in each leashing catch Basin and then discharge to either an oil SLG grit separator or a sediment for Bay prior to the infiltration Basin otherwise the infiltration Basin will routinely become clogged with sediment and fail a function is designed bold this was addressed gas trap hoods are specified to be installed on all Outlet pipes and all of the pipes now discharged to a sediment forb for additional pre-treatment three based on the topography shown on the plan it appears that much of post-development subcatchment area 5S will flow into Home Street and not infiltration Basin one as modeled also the emergency Spillway discharge from infiltration Basin 2 would flow into Home Street and not infiltration Basin one as modeled the model should be revised to more accurately reflect flow Direction Bol this is addressed spot elevations have been added to the plan showing that there is a physical burm across the driveway openings which will direct overflow from infiltration Basin 2 and run off from in front of the building into the the proposed catch Basin four the storage volume in the drywell for the roof runoff is not modeled correctly the model does not take into account that only the void space in the crush Stone around the concrete drywell is available for storage addressed oh sorry bold addressed the void space has now been accounted for and the revised calculations indicate that proposed rates and volumes runoff toward home street will be less than existing five in addition to the site being within the mon Pond Pond Watershed according to mass GIS it is also located within the Silver Lake Watershed which is an outstanding resource resource water bold informational no response required six the applicant is Seeking a waiver from the requirement to provide a storm water system operation and maintenance onm plan we recommend that an onm plan be provided to ensure that there will be adequate maintenance of the storm water best management practices bmps proposed on site bold addressed the on andm plan that has been submitted outlines the appropriate inspection and maintenance frequencies for the St storm water system components the proposed storm water system will result in less runoff into Home Street than what was flowing to home street prior to the building addition and the clearing of The Rail lot pre verse post development rates and volumes of runoff are summarized on the attached table please give us a call should you have any questions very truly Ys pgb engineering Pat Brennan and then there is a um um runoff summary so first I'd like to say that that is awesome because it's conservation um engineering um pair engineering but um does the planning board want to do a pair engineer on any of the uh Landscaping lighting or any of the other things that are on site plan yeah why don't we go through some of them uh cuz we had uh we had asked different questions about that in in uh yeah last time you had mentioned something about the Giant arbites and all that so let's let's start checking some boxes okay so um with respect to the rest besite taking the storm water management system off the table so the comment came back about vegetative screening I reached out to the abutter Mr Mary um to see if I could go on his property to see where to put the usually it's easier to look from the person's property to see where to screen on our property but he did not want to do that so what I did was I went out to the applicant's property and looked from the applicant's property towards his property to identify locations to plant Arbor V and I included some photographs that were taken it looks like you can see part of his house is visible through the trees so shortly in front of where his house is visible we started a row of thuga green giant Arbor V they're shown on the plan they're being planted 8 to 10 ft on Center I misspoke last time they grow 3 feet a year um but they will grow to 40 ft tall um and they they're one of the most rapid growing you know good plants because Mr Murray did or actually his son-in-law did did present pictures showing his house lit up you know it was it wasn't something like a little bit of light on the driveway or something his so right no so we so we've got that we've got that we did not extend those trees all the way along the property line because I was trying to figure out where to put them to screen for the residential uses and I was looking at Google Maps and I included some of the pictures so that you could see the reason why they do not extend all the way down the property line there is a building in the back of his property that does not appear to be residential I mean from the Google Earth overlay maps you can see a lot of equipment and stuff like that so if it didn't look like it was an actual residential space we didn't put any arv in front of it because you know comes um this is a like industrial use if that's another you know commercial use I didn't see the point of adding additional spring on and what about the other house that's uh closer it's it's a closer to uh Home Street uh the smaller house you know down down below at the bottom of the hill was are these are these going to be blocking the lights and stuff going in there also we don't have any lights over in that area and then the other thing to say about the lights we talked about the lights last time there are lights on the back of the building that have been disconnected and those lights are not going to be used they haven't been removed but they're not capable of being used it's not like they're turned off they are actively disconnected and we would accept any sort of condition you want toose of a penalty or something if those lights were to be turn reconnected and turned on but how about shielding uh is there been any anything in in the plan about Shield shielding the lights other than relying solely on the abraid and the only lights that were in the back of the building are the lights that are disconnected okay we're not adding the lights hav the problem lights have been just we're not adding any lights we're not doing anything to the building itself in order this is purely for the storm water management and the change in use from the existing storage use and I will say the changing use um to remind you this is a assembly use it is it's in the light manufacturing District it is assembly of component parts the component parts come in and then they are assembled with other fittings it's not um you know using equipment or Machinery manufacturing you're correct there may be some welding but it's that's the most industrial we spoke the last meeting too you don't mind if I call you an at the last meeting about the the cars and the boats and the trailers and the trucks that are stored currently in it were way in the back and you had said that they're only going to be using within X number of feet of the building what about the storage of vehicles and stuff like that with gas tanks and diesel fuel and that type of thing storage this is we have a potential tenant coming in to this space that's one of the reasons that I'm here to get the change in use so once the tenant leases the space the tenant will be in control of the property and the Tenant is this light manufacturing business so the boats and the trucks and the cars will all will be taken out yeah it's not a question of continuing to store things that's my point yeah that's not that's not the proposed use the proposed use is light manufacturing assembly for a tenant that has one to two employees and cuz we kind of dropped the ball on that too like with the storage units up on 106 where people are now storing it was a storage unit you buy the garage type thing and there has boats out there and Tra is and uh you know when I when I say RV trailers and that type so there won't be any of that once the new tenant is in there yeah this is this is to get a site plan review approval for a tenant to conduct the business on the property which will also I I remember from the last time you were here there were complaints about you know people and trespassing and noise and stuff like that once it's rented and there's a tenant that is operating a business there'll be people there on I think we're I forget exactly but I think it's 7 to 5 is the hours that I put in originally so there'll be at least one potentially two if it does well employees at the property during those business hours so there won't be other people showing up or trash marking their territory good one I think is what we were the conversation we had in the past yes yeah is the uh hours of operations specified anyway specif it's in my it's in my original narrative that we filed with the with the plans okay 7 to5 Saturdays and Sundays also or no no it was um it was business days I don't know if this is out of our uh I don't think jurisdiction is the right word but I guess I'm just curious because there have been a lot of complaints from a Butters and it seems like they're getting addressed obviously but the two big ones being the lights which have been disconnected not even just turned off but disconnected and the storage of the vehicles and other toys do we even have the ability to put in there that like if a condition like if you cleared it all out to get the approval and then moved it all back in the next day what is the consequence and is that something that's in our right to put in as a contingency yes well their occupancy is going to be predicated on the manufactur or the assembly use correct so technically they can't do storage if they occupancy technically yeah no I technically all the boards are supposed to do no no no no I understand but then it becomes an Enforcement issue right and so that's what I'm guessing is who's in charge of the enforcement so let's say we get through all this stuff and let's say they're the ab Butters and they come in and they it would be the zoning enforcement officer who would be in charge of enforcement and then so they would do that which would be the building inspector so would we put in our motion that we would rely upon the zoning enforcement officer upon for specifically for lights and storage of unused vehicles and things like that we could do that sure I think that would make the abutters more comfortable if at least we can show on the record that their concerns were heard put some thought into that and that we are keeping them in mind I think that's true and just to say it is Monday through Friday between 7 a.m. 5m. does that in include the deliveries during that time also there is an after hour deliveries or anything after hour deliveries of components and materials were not proposed so deliveries of the components are coming during that Monday to Friday thank you so on on this in chapter 16728 and Halifax site plan require ironment there's a few things that I feel as though I want to read out loud to remind board members and maybe teach board members um if they don't know about what happens like this is something that should be read it's uh no permit shall be granted for any commercial industrial business institutional apartment multi-dwelling municipal or School building or public utility structure and none of the above classes of structures shall be constructed or externally externally enlarged and no you use such use shall be expanded or established in an existing building or lot not there to for used for such purposes except in Conformity with a site plan bearing an endorsement of approval by the planning board said site plan shall show the owner of record location Zone boundary lines easements or other legal restrictions exact location of buildings building buildings on the LW with side front and rear dimensions lot Dimensions topography adjacent public ways location of off street parking lighting utility system surface drainage traffic flow location and nature of Open Spaces with specific notations as to Landscaping Locust plan and other details deemed necessary by the planning board the pl planning board May wave or substantially reduced the site plan submission requirements for projects having limited or minor impacts in consistent with the purposes of this chapter a applicants shall submit an original and nine copies of their site plan to the town clerk who shall give the applicant a dated receipt within 4 days the town clerk I'm shall transmit one copy each to the planning board the Board of Health the building inspector the highway surveyor the water Commissioners the zoning administrator the board of appeals the conservation Comm commission and the board of Selectmen and shall transmit written notice of the availability of the site plans to the fire and police departments within 30 days of filing such application the review boards and offices shall evaluate the application and the site plan with regard to the conditions and standards set forth in this chapter and related agency regulations and policies and shall submit comments to the planning board or take any action thereon the planning board shall not act without considering the reports of the review boards and the offices unless 30 days from the date of filing have passed without receipt of such reports the planning board shall note major recommendations of the review boards and officers in its decision and shall explain any major Divergence from such recommendations failure of the planning board to act within 45 days of the filing of the application shall be deemed approval of the application and plan where a proposed development also falls under subis control the applicant shall include information required for a definitive plan according to the current rules and regulations for the subdivision of land however the planning board endorsement under this chapter shall not cons constitute approval under subdivision control the board with ultimate jur jurisdiction in a given case I.E the planning board or the zoning board of appeals which is the designated special permit Grant granting Authority for specific specially permitted uses there's a chart that shows who is in charge um of which special permit special permit shall consider any advisory site plan review report in its decision and shall explain any major Divergence from the report's recommendations site plan requirements as follows and I won't get into all of that but I think I just pretty much Stamped Out that what that application States about everything coming here is our decision so we already have this jurisdiction it is already in hand what we need to do is now state to the other boards you need to get us all of your comments because we need to make the decision on a whole it's not like give this not if we were further along I think we say nobody's arguing that so we just need to make it happen now that's that's all we need to do we need to say send a letter to all the boards and say we need comments on this and your decisions within and this is our deadline you just read it they have 30 days to provide it and if they don't then we can act without their commentary you can't force them to do it any I you can control them to do it we we shouldn't be allowing right now us to be in control by something else what we need to they're in process and they're saying well we're waiting for the planning board that's wrong it's the wrong flow so all we need to do is say conservation needs to finish this you need to go through your hearings you need to do this and you need to send in your reports to the planning board it's written right in our bylaws which is it's written right in the bylaw that they don't have to they going through it they're going through it the changes just happened on October 7th so technically those updated plans should be sent out and that is a large job why planning board has to do that that's what our secretary is supposed to be directed to do actually the town clerk okay but that that can happen but you you you know what I'm trying to State however right now nobody's arguing what you're trying to put in place I'm not arguing it I'm just saying at this point we're stuck in the mud here I don't have person we not stuck in the mud well I think we're stuck in the mud let me put it that way you're giving up so stay on task please I'm asking I'm asking everybody to Sask the sitech plan has been sent out for site plan review our engineer for not for us he's still our right but it doesn't include the things that are all supposed to be in there like he didn't comment on anything being wrong or anything on landscaping or anything or lighting or anything like that normal for a site plan to go out for more than one peer review yes we did we do this we did it for 266 we did it for 265 mon Pon we didn't do it for 416 um Plymouth Street at all so and we didn't do it in 2021 which is this this is the reason that we started making it an absolute rule that it would occur this is the exact property that we stated am I wrong no I remember so my question is my question is when it specifically says a report from the different boards is there a distinction between okay give us a report of what you need as opposed to uh an approval or a non-approval it isn't definitive and I think that's the problem that that's where it lies the unless unless is the report considered a sign off can can you say well we submitted considerations if of ABC and D in a report but yet we haven't signed off on it as conservation as Board of Health or as anyone else I think the problem we're running into not to go back down this road because I would like to move forward is um everybody got their approval but not willing to sign off until that happens so right it's right here I I know I know there's a lot of things Even in our own Constitution that don't get done the right way which is why as I know I agree so that's what we should do so what I'm saying is is that I I don't see a problem with the and this is just my opinion I trust this as well right because for all these things all addressed addressed addressed six different major things that were addressed to say our major concern was the the water right as the planning board to this point on this project amongst other things but I I I get it I think you are 100% right that the process is not being applied the way it's supposed to with that said I also I personally feel comfortable being able to vote on this with the contingency of the conservation based off of this and everything else that's been done also knowing that they're going to be able to look at that and then we can also go listen this cannot happen like this this cannot happen like this we need to get a pecking order in place so we're going to the the planning board did our due diligence on this project and we are approving it upon the contingent that you guys are going to do your due diligence but moving forward this is how this is going to have to work we ask as as as Amy just read we asked for a report there the report it's in front of you right there with specific items on it that were addressed and which have been addressed in footnoted uh to have the actual conservation approval in front of us no we do not have that and Amy to be honest with you while you were reading that whole thing I'm like I would take those pages out copy them and send them to every board and go this is the pecking order this is how this is going to roll now we have to do right now that's all we have to do right now because conservation hasn't signed off on this they haven't even had their hearing to have any of the abutters there so even appointment they can't even get any hear but that's because that's because of this but but that makes no sense an is what I just read like this needs to this needs to go to them and say have your hearing so that we can send this back I don't have a problem with what you're proposing down the road I think it because I think this is far enough along that we don't but also because conservation has put their foot down and said that you're not willing they're not willing to give you they're not following procedure I completely agree then what all we need to do is say no you're first so then would we be putting our foot down to conservation and saying you will give her a hearing how's that going to go that's what it's supposed to do I think we need to have a discussion interboard yes discussion not on an application that's in front of us the application what else did we uh did we review with this application we need to just follow them it's that easy they're not adhering somebody is not adhering so we need to so we as the board need this is this is the final say right here and it's it's that's why we need to send send this over now and say get your job done the final say also says Amy that they don't have to respond if they don't respond we can act without them so so you want have any approval so the town would require us to deny this tonight without conservation appr approval I don't think an wants that no no that's not what it's saying that's not we don't have we don't have to take it into consideration is what it's actually saying if they don't provide us with anything so you're just going to disregard that's not what I'm saying that is what you're saying well no I'm seeing that that's what that says can I say one thing oh my God that's ridiculous can I just say one thing the hard part here is just like all the other boards that are all being too polite we're actually all in agreement right however here's where I have a problem if I'm sit I don't mean to point that you if I sitting in her seat I'm going you know what guys it's not my fault yall are a showell that you guys are dis it's not my fault that you guys can't get your act together so I have given you everything that I you have asked for me I've gotten I've paid for peer reviews I've had an engineer from your engineer that's on your payroll that said dress the dress address address address I've done everything y'all are a circus that's your problem not mine and so now you're going to hold up my projects I was them I'd be pissed to get back on track what is the planning board asking of the applicant as far as the planning board's considerations the abide the lights I'm I'm going to take my motion off the table and substitute it with another motion I have one thing to say first wa the the abutter is also not here to be absolutely clear that he is okay with everything that's here for instance he owns this property up here too what if he wants more of aites here and we're not doing any of that because he's out of the country I'm just saying as an example do we know he's I I I had a couple of discussions with him after the last meetings I asked him to come on his property I asked him to be able to look and he did not indicate anything specific he was in agreement Orting for okay if my memory is right and I get that however he's not here to say this this that or anything like that so what my thing is is we should just use our law send it back to conservation have the hearing have everything come back to us and then we sign off there's it's not going to prevent you from going forward because you still need their approval so I think that we should start doing our job tonight the way it is and I will make a motion that we need to follow 16728 and um and do just that because honestly projects having limited or minor impacts consistent with the purposes of this chapter are okay 1678 I myself that's not the application in front of us that's a different a whole different like you said a whole different it's not require I if I could finish please could I please finish please I'm asking what does it say on the title of that I guess I can finish what does it say on the title of that iess does it say site plan review so Bert can I ask you a question as a chairman is there a way that we can request because I don't think there's anything else that we have questions on other than the approval of other boards that's that's exactly what we're supposed to get I understand I understand I'm saying as far as so before we pass anything is there a way for us to after this meeting reach out the conservation and say can you please we we are not going to approve this until you approve it can by way of 16728 can you please Grant miss an a hearing in order to be able to present in front of you so that you can review all this sign off in it so that at our next meeting we can then have our due diligence and we follow the letter of the bylaw because our concern what I think we're trying to prevent here is saying you've got a letter in it's are we able to just say we got to fix this can you please give her a hearing even though we have not ruled on it because we're requesting that so that we can follow the letter of the bylaw add a add a copy to it we can do that can we do that thank you because otherwise we're going to be here till midnight talking about the same thing from different angles it's a six no it's a nine well you're just looking at it upside down so would that work if we ask conservation to Grant her a hearing based on the fact that we're ready to move forward but can't without their without their confirmation amen I'll second that if it's a motion when is there meeting the 22nd the 22nd so it's next week yeah so that's not that's not a hearing because they have to advertise they they told me at the 22nd if I come and tell them that everything's copacetic here and have Pro of that then I I'm trying to solve the problem oh wait you weren't there I'm sorry so so when would the hearing be after the 22nd it's probably the next meeting the meeting or the meeting after that because they they have to the notices and it would go in the newspaper I believe the plan could change some Beyond which is beyond the extension we've granted already no it's November 19th or 20th that we have an extension to yeah but I'll need to get another extension if it goes beyond that that yeah but we're trying to take care of this now and and that that will that will make it all clear if if we have to follow the bylaw that's our job it's not our job just just do this it's it's our job to follow should read the bylaw again because bylaw has a hole in it that you're not addressing but that's another we can't all we also can't approve something without making sure that there is only a minor impact and so we're not doing that so technically what we'd be doing is making it subject to I don't know why you pushing for this so bad I'm not pushing I I just want to get someu why would we just because you're making all of a sudden you decided now's the time to deal with all this where you've had what eight years on the planning board that you didn't deal with it no not eight okay seven six whatever it is five in the sixth okay so this is adding to the surface and I always did run let's let's let's just end this so so if we were to not vote on this tonight and ask for conservation to Grant Miss Anne a hearing under 16728 based on our bylaws then that would essentially give me the timeline so you would go in on the 22nd we they would have already received communication from us requesting granting you permission I'm thinking that what what if we sent out this letter tomorrow or Monday to conservation that she wouldn't even have to go to the next conservation meeting they can get the hearing right going and have it sooner she doesn't need to wait to go to Tuesday they can just send it out send out the hearing notice I would have to go on Tuesday to see what they actually did in response to your letter well they they have to follow 16728 they have to we we we really honestly 167 is so yeah so it's just it's just one of those things where all right so I'm not done with the timeline so you go on the 22nd and we've asked them which is next week it's next Tuesday we we've asked them to please Grant you permission for a hearing even though we haven't voted on it because after reviewing the bylaws there's a this is all backwards so then they Grant you a hearing they have to give you 30 day the abut is 30 days notice so now you're into the end of November right if it's 30 days they grant that on let's say the hearing on November 22nd but whatever the extension would be passed so we would need another extension then you would come back to us which would then be the first meeting in December MH boy it's not it's going to be that way anyways it's not going to it's not going to be any faster if we let go we're just letting go of checking all the boxes which is what our job is to I understand I know I so it's not going to do anything but the difference is so if we voted on this contingent upon the approval of the conservation board then you have to go on Tuesday they still have to do all the hearing but at least then by November 2 second you can move forward with your project if everybody signed off on it yeah so it's it's it's it is faster and I'm not trying to push it through but it's not about being faster it's about following all the rules and had again I'm trying to put myself in her shoes hold on I'm trying to put myself in her shoes or anybody that sits in the gallery the audience it's if conservation or any board for that matter had followed this and did their due diligence for following the bylaws then we would be able to make a decision tonight but they didn't so that should not be at the fault of the person that is the applicant but it's not at just a point of clarification they're not governed by 167 the other boards only any Bo is right and what does that say everybody must do the the job to bring to us not the opposite but it doesn't they had they we would have been able to do our job but they didn't so now what I'm trying to say is is it's something that need to be fixed in the future but for this but there's still a ton of holes because we don't have anything from them on the new plan that was sent out on October 7th we're still not doing our exact job we're still not making sure that everything is done and that is our ultimate job of Sting I just don't know if I don't Hill to die on on this that's what I'm let's find it is because it's the we can fix it though when we can fix it so ready these people here that coming up next with thew problem sitting here because the bylaws weren't followed I get it so letting it go get it is so I've been here since 18 19 years later we're figuring out that what wasn't followed in a bylaw is preventing multiple Town Lots in town and multiple roads in town not able to go to public status that is why this needs to be followed to the te but preventing something from going to public status is a vote of the town meeting okay well yes once again we're off topic we have an application in front of us uh Tom made the first motion Tom could you repeat your your motion I'm I'm going to move that accept this project subject to confirmation from the Conservation Commission that they are um satisfied with the plan as presented and subject to the lighting in the back of the building being permanently disabled and uh the current use will cease upon occupancy with the transfer of um use occup uh the use per do you want storage on the property mention no I'm saying to that will cease that will cover the current use will cease completely I'll clean that up current use will cease completely subject to the uh application for the change of use permit let's vote on it see where it goes if it doesn't fly it doesn't fly okay let's see where we're going okay I have a motion on the floor uh do I have a second I I have such a problem with this because it's not their fault but it's but we can't just keep going it's the lack of it it is the lack of due diligence done by again that's a separate I understand that but but that affects my that affects my vote is what I'm saying because if look at why it's not happening I understand I understand trust me and and that's why as as the people of howfacts are looking to us to actually make sure that this stuff doesn't keep happening I understand and we can fix it that's what I'm saying so there's a motion on the floor there's a motion on the floor do I have a second you can't let it go hey I got your point listen who's been here defending the bylaws since I got in the freaking seat okay I've been the one agreeing with you this whole time for three years about this give me a second to think about the fact that these people did their due diligence our boards did not so now I'm trying to make sure that this does not hold up business because we can still do this and fix this at the same time all tonight but they so you know what I'm going to Second them I'm going to second the motion because I know we're going to address this next going to be that's what we're going to do so second give the cook Bron I will tell you that that's what we will do okay there's a motion on the floor in a second I'm going to ask for a Voice vote Tom yes absolutely Brendan yes Amy no and I vote Yes so it uh it passes 3 to one I agree then you voted on I voted in the best interest of what I think that the people coming into this town deserve because it's not their fault that we can't get our together excuse my language I'm probably going to get written up and fired or whatever but I'm sick of this it's ridiculous we don't have a flowchart so it's everybody else's fault that sits in this Gallery ridiculous rules are but nobody's following it Amy and like you said it hasn't been followed for 16 years so now we're going to fix it yes we are so now we're going to fix it because we chose the wrong time to have this conversation when somebody who has done their due diligence has the same the time to th we did the same thing with everyone else with the landscaper across the street beside it would go on and on same thing with with a Maloney property down there it's it's it's ridiculous and again the ABS respond we fixed the process needs to be fixed it's written right here I just read well if it was WR right in there why wasn't it why wasn't it addressed back in 2021 when you passed it that's when we learned that's when you learn that's when I learned that's when somebody said they need did you do a review on 4 16 P guys everybody you want to talk about working on pictures of your car every single day such listen guys it's not that hard hey I'm not can everybody stop please can the adults come back yeah here's the deal here's the deal everybody gets up here and starts talking about on behalf of the town on behalf of the Town let's not forget we represent the town that's what we and we need to act accordingly all of us because if there was somebody coming from let's say the state department and sat in on this meeting you going tell me we wouldn't all have a private meeting tomorrow so get your emotions in check and let's have an adult conversation moving forward for the rest of night cuz that is ridiculous let's go guys be better all of us why we uh before we go on to that second thing like I told you I would why don't we address with these Ladi and gentlemen be so we they can they can go home but there is entertainment next time we're we're charging money for this show so we'll raise all the money it's recorded I I'll put out my God all right uh so we're on to uh the discussion other business no discussion for uh Autumn Lane Mr co uh Cody D will okay and gell how can we help you um way we left it I just wanted to make sure that everybody's going to go back and make sure that you have the out builts uh do the asil it was in the minutes I I don't know that we asked her to provide them I I was going to to see if there was any money set aside either for engineering I know is any so what does that mean to well that means that somebody has to do an assessment up there now if the town were to doing a set this is me thinking out loud here it would probably be an article the town meeting um to raise and appropriate some money to do an assessment of the street because I think the assessment that is currently or the last one is old enough that I don't think is particularly valid is uh 2020 2020 no it could be close it was um this this was December of 2020 so it's probably it's really 2021 I guess yeah more or less yeah so did we find out how much money was in their revolving account there is no there is zero so then your devel you're you're in touch with the developer correct he would pay for the assessment of the road he would have to but we can't make can do it is the point well we can ask him to will he do that that's I I want to understand I'm going to go back whatever you guys decide is what I'm going to take to him cuz he won't show up no I mean so I'll take it to him and if he doesn't do it then I don't buy the property so but that's all I want to get to is I've been eight months now trying to get through this and what we could do if I made Mr chair Y what we could do is try to get uh some quotes as to what kind of money is involved than making an assessment by an independent but I guess my question would be based on the fact that it was December 2020 do you in fact need one it's been four years I I think so has anything changed though if those lots haven't been able to been devel probably deteriorating at that time and I don't think that'll stop because this is irrelevant yeah all we need to do uh in my opinion is that you need he needs to have a PR engineer go out and assess the road to make sure that That's the Way It Is Well that's what was done in 20 for 20 because the time of elapse and then once that comes back then if the street could be done like that if he would complete the street maybe with the money that he um is going to receive from you getting the lot but he's not going to get the money from me no no no no I know but have some in his bank account cuz he's not getting it from me no no no I don't I mean like he's going to get it back when you close is what I mean yep so and then it would be like a headache off of his plate it does not seem to have been a motivator in the past 20 years so but maybe somebody hasn't made a good offer on it well whatever he gets is going to go into the cost of doing the road because there's no right well that's a lot's worth I'm just picking numbers out of the air here it say it's worth 200k you know that's probably an average number to yeah well you know I'm I'm being a little conservative he's trying to help your shooting under at 200amp if the road work is 250 you know obviously it's a loser for him you know even if he I mean I'm looking at it I'm saying if he gave you the lot what would it cost you to finish the road to get it accepted that's the number either way it would be like a peer review engineer and then you find out how much it is and then you guys can make a plan off of that right I mean he's that's that's what I would do know a lot of done but it it was done three years ago yeah so maybe it's salvaged some of it I haven't I didn't drive down the road the last couple of weeks I mean can it's been a is that the decision I'll take it back but that's the decision but I I just but there not really a decision it's really just kind of you know think this got to be a decision you got to either tell me you'll you'll accept when these are all checked off or know you want to have a right I'm not I'm not trying to be hard I'm not trying to be two either uh we we somebody needs to know what needs to be done so we can get a a number on it so that everybody can move forward because you can't move forward we don't know what to tell you unless somebody does an evaluation maybe that's still good um that's who who who decides that uh that would be whoever did it and and the problem there Merl would would tell you you'd have to ask Marl and they would say yeah you can go ahead with it or you could find somebody else or uh to to look at it based on what Merl left I mean this isn't me this is you guys no no no I understand but we're not going to do it it's because we don't have the money to do it is what I'm getting so I I'm trying to help I'm trying to get it to him I think it's just like go simple with him and state it like this if you say to the developer or the owner of the lot whichever way you want to look at it State something to the effect of can you please find out what the um a a engineer would know come out here and use this and say what would be the cost of finishing the road so you're asking him to do that yeah he asked to you no no no no no you are asking him to do that that's all I need to know I'll go to him and say they're saying that you need to have this done again yeah yeah because we would need an update we want it from our peer review engineer not his pgp yeah so he would need to pay P pgb which is Pat all I'm you're you're you're saying to me that he needs to have it it needs to be done again it it it needs to be reviewed because it could have deteriorated in the past three years especially if there's no top code right it needs to be reviewed correct so I think that I think that the for you to walk out of here with a Clear Vision of what the next steps are I think is exactly I know you're trying to I think what we need to do is is we need to tell him that he needs to pay for a new peer review of the the road so that that is done by our peer review engineer Pat Brennan y to give us feedback on what state the road is currently in and what needs to be done moving forward in order for that lot to be released what we need to do is get a quote from Pat Brenan to see what he would charge to do that so what is a normal site plan review cost well I guess it's not a site plan review it's a project review right specific but that's not his role so we would need to reach out to Pat I don't think that we need to be in I think that like he he could have the Builder do a peer review send it into us okay let's I don't mean what I meant was what is the tell what yeah no I get that I get that to pay for time out figure hey new player involved here give me a letter give me something yeah so so the developer or the owner of the lot has told these folks that he has asked the planning board what needs to be done and we have not explained to him what needs to be done so here's what we're going to do we're going to make it real clear about what is expected in order to be able to move forward so nobody can point at us and say they're waiting on us I hate that so at the end like in all aspects of my life don't wait on me so at the end of the day I believe unless I'm wrong that the we would make an official statement on the record that the developer landowner needs to have a review a peer review of the road from our engineer by Pat Brennan and he has to fund it like he has to pay for that review right he can negotiate it with whatever that's between them that has nothing to do with us he has to get that done so that we can then look at it assess it and discuss what if we will release the we even need to look at that once once we have an estimate as to what the road work's going to be then it comes down to who's going to do the road work so this gets multifaceted here so here's the good news here's what it is well wouldn't a developer usually do the final final check so could hire a guy to do it and then we would have our review go on look at with st with kind of like when you finish a subdivision with a bond you'd finish the road and then Steve Haywood and the peer review a engineer would go out so I mean like you can get all the estimates do that and then really Steve Haywood needs to sign off that it would be an approved Street not us yeah so here's a so like we're making another layer I think where literally to clean it up right now here's the deal you're going to you're going to go to you're going to go to the developer and say you need to pay for a peer review to find out how much it's going to cost in order for the road to be done and then that developer that is you're dealing with is going to then make his own decision whether or not it's in his best interest to finish the road versus the cost of what he's going to get from you but what we need is we need our engineer to do the peer review to estimate the cost of what needs to be done on that road so we'll release the LW and then but in order for us to release the LW that road needs to be done so that developer is going to hear from our engineer and that engineer is going to say hey if you want to do this right it's going to cost you $150,000 to do in order for it to be done right and then that developer is going to go is that cost efficient for me and if the answer is no you don't get the laot because other unless you want to pay for the road which I don't think that's the cas I just want to get to to where we're at yes so so you guys are going you're going to contact with the price of what it's going to cost for his peer review that is something for him to negotiate with Pat Brennan our engineer he has to use our engineer to do the reval and our engineer if you want to take this down is uh pgb p is in Peter G is in golf beers and Bravo engineering LLC uh 49 trapella Road in Marshfield you have the phone number 781 834 8987 and uh again his name name is Pat Brenan I I contacted him because I was going to have him do uh an engineering review of the lot to determine whether I want to buy the lot because of its its slant it's it's lands going through it how close you can get to it so all of that so would a letter from the planning board to the developer saying this is what we're requesting satisfy what you're trying to get accomplished in order to be able to at least move forward and I'll come I'll come in and pick it up sorry could we if you do that that would be great let's do that cuz then I'll come pick it up I'll I'll make sure that he sees it and it feels as though we're making progress however I think you know that if Pat Brenan comes out and he does that review and says it's going to cost you 300,000 to do the road he's going to go well math being you know doing the math thing it's not going to be in my best interest sorry guys but if it comes out and goes ah it's actually didn't deteriorate it's fine the first two coats are all right we got to slap another coat on it's going to be satisfying my requirements it's going to cost you like 75 grand then that's something between you and the development workout but at least nobody's waiting on us it gives you my feeling is if we do this I'm walking away well at least it won't be because the planning board let you down no no no no no I'll be happy to take the letter I'll send it I'll get make sure he gets it or whatever but if we do this the time involveed I'm walking away right yeah CU I've already spent eight months waiting for the so the the time shouldn't be that long yeah it wouldn't be that long cuz I mean like the guy he'll probably go out it will it no mov no I'm not saying that I'm talking about our review guy yeah he'll get right out there if there's no discounting how frustrating this has been for you no that's fine you're just saying if he comes back and says well he's got to get the he's got to get the the price from yeah from the brand from Brennan well hold on he'll what what'll happen is he'll get what needs to be done by Brennan and then an estimate can be formed from what Pat said so that's br's not going to give him PR right right months you think so months this guy's not going no not you guys are going to you guys are going to have this lot for the next well that's why we're supposed to follow the B and then in the same breath too the asphalt plants are going to be closed and usually the first week in November I just don't I don't know I don't know else sometimes so the problem this problem that we really don't want to go back down because she'll be here for another hour and a half but unfortunately when this whole development was approved it wasn't done correctly to do you you guys I'm I'm satisfied with what you I'm I'm very happy with what you're telling me and so how about we do this let's let's at Le I'm going to make the motion or not the motion but the request cuz it's not a motion I'm going to make a request to Danielle who's our secretary our administrative assistant right um to put that letter together to have ready for you to either pick up or will have one ready for you to pick up and will'll mail one that way that it's double down you do both do both so that we've covered our BAS and the letter was going to who to the developer okay yeah I don't know who the what's the devel so Danielle if you could please have a letter put together to dant triani um who is the developer in holding that lot on on seven Lane seven yeah seven Auburn Lane um saying that we are requesting him to reach out to Pat Brennan so Pat Brennan can come out and do a a review of what needs to be done for the road to be completed upon that being complete it's on him to find the asphalt company or the paving company to come in and complete the work and then from there once that road is completed then we would sign off on releasing the lot to be built on the other option is if you wanted to work something out with him in terms of taking possession of the thing but that's dangerous because you don't know how good those prices are and how and the lot itself I would still have to go ahead and I would want to get the lot you'd have to spend do the engineering on that we're not really supposed to transfer the Lots until at all until it's done so my other thought to cut out some time is if we're waiting on somebody who let's just say it's not out of um delinquency it's just out of they're just busy so if you're already going to be having a conversation with Mr Brennan about the lot perhaps you can have a conversation with Mr Brennan asking him to wouldn't that be conflict of interest if he was I mean to do the lot lot engineering and engineer let's eliminate a couple moving pieces can you please out and say we got to get this done and this is how much it's going to cost I mean I might just knock a week or he does I appreciate all he does do it a little bit because I I've had develop as another town we're try I'm just just throwing it out there thanks very much you guys been great help all right got your jacket thank you all right so okay so I would like to say now that the that's empty when I I join this board without knowing what the hell I was doing um but enthusiastic to serve the town I was newer to the town but I'm raising my family I love Halifax what happens is when we get a lot of very passionate people that care about our town which is that is who should be on our board but when we fight internally like this and there are people there their patience goes away so that guy just raised his voice at us and I think part of it was because he just sat there and witnessed all four of us just bite each other's heads off when it could have been handled differently so I'm just asking that we all appreciate each other's enthusiasm for the town but I think there's a better way to communicate because I am proud to serve the town but I'm embarrassed sometimes when I leave here and I think everybody else feels that way too for how we all handle it and I'm not this isn't a lecture it's more of a plea to say I appreciate and respect everybody on this board and I want to continue to be like that but it reflects poorly of the people sitting in the those chairs I think because everybody has a basis I what need what what would happen is if we actually were following the bylaws and everything was the same for everything then and and know that the there's a certain way to go but we can't let go on the bylaws and the reason is is because of people like that 19 years later this guy is holding on to a lot that that road now affects all of the people on times any of that happens and that's their retirement that's why those laws are there yeah I agree so can we move on to the next topic of requesting I don't know if it needs to be a motion cuz I'll make it I'll make a motion if that's the appropriate thing to do to re request that we reach out to each one of the chairs of all the different boards that are in section 16728 and tell them that in order for us to move forward there is a flowchart there is a pecking order that we cannot do make our final decision without their decision we should also produce a flowchart yes literally flowchart yeah to show them what we're looking and because you know what I know a lot of you guys have these bylaws memorized which is actually commendable and actually very impressive the fact that you pulled that out of nowhere knowing what you were looking for and knew exactly where to find it it's like a Rainman thing to me so which is awesome right so I doubt I I doubt very highly that everybody has that same knowledge and I'm not calling out any other boards for not knowing but I wouldn't know so I'll call myself out I would have known where to find that so I think a flowchart would clean up what's written in lawyer speak okay now that that was going to be my point that would be my point I was going to say is this something that uh our letter should be sent to each of these departments or is it something that should go to the selectman and say you know we're they're given instructions who we to to tell the planning board to tell conservation to tell the Board of Health or or tell somebody else is appointed but Board of Health is elected so that gets a little d what if we presented what if we presented our own flowchart based off of your the bylaw not your bylaw but the bylaw you just red 16728 presented our own flowchart with the extensive knowledge of the three of you because I'm just here for well entertainment I guess but the thing is is if we if we I don't know about that but if we have this flowchart and say this is what we need and if it has to go up to the selectman to sign off on it they're going to look at and go this looks great is that what that ra bylaw is sign off here when I say I believe that the selectman should be the on going to the chairman of the conservation and say you know the planning board's got this great idea here's their flow chot is what they think if we provide that if we ask them to do it well we might be waiting for a while they got big fish to fry right now but if we go Hey listen we found out at our last meeting that this is going to make the entire process for all boards more efficient so nobody does this here's what we're presenting can you please go to those heads and we'll we'll send them not from my last meeing it's from the last 16 years correct it's been the same thing since I was on the zoning board so that's a good way I think it's the best I think we should double down just like having a letter for him to pick up and one that we're sending I think we should not only send it to the selectman but also we should send it out of respect to the chairmans of each of the boards and say we've asked the selectman to review this so when they come to you you are already prepar that's not the process we're we're an El B in charge of the 16728 the S don't reside overall and that the the bylaws changed the reason hearings come to the planning board as we're supposed to know so you should people should read the chapter that we're representing and know it so that they know how to respond to the people out in the audience but we're not getting the response from the other boards that's the problem this soers is 167 is zoning and planning is part of that M process the other boards have their own set of bylaws they're not looking at our 16 what I'm saying they don't care we're supposed to be the ones that say here's this plan and we just got this plan and and you know the town clerk sends it out right and they make sure that everybody gets it and then they're supposed to within 30 days so it's a leadership thing maybe when the plan goes out there should be a statement with it because I know that I used to do that and said and I said within 30 days I need your comments but if you don't get them that's what the problem so a letter goes with the plan that states within 30 days we need you to tell us what you need to do so conservation would send us back in this case um we're going to have a hearing on X andx date so then we would be able to look at that site plan application and say okay our site plan application is gone on November 19th their hearing is November 5th are we going to have a meeting between then and then are we going to need to extend the site plan to the next meeting and and that would all be done and that that's how the process is supposed to go yes and and I and I think that the good new 100% And so what I'm saying is is out of a sign of good faith out of respect it is we have met AC Crossroads here where we are getting stuck in the mud so our proposed solution to that is here's a flowchart of how this has to work and moving forward we are not going to be able to move forward without your decisions being final which will allow us to have all the pieces that we need now we are not going to tell them we're not going to dictate we're not going to mandate we are going to say this is what we are requesting and respectfully that is what we're asking and we're getting the Selectmen involved not because they have jurisdiction over us but because they do carry weight in the town I know but they do carry weight in the town the bus to be able to back us up on that they don't have to but I think out of respect and out of providing the in providing the actual information to say we're not asking you to actually do any of the work we're just asking you to follow this stand zoning even more so like that would be insane so like but we're providing the work we have the law so all we need to do is actually press upon it and say listen this site plan application happens for a reason it's followed with chapter 16728 what I'm saying is making it easier for the other boards to understand what we need to do our job and I know I know I know it's our in there I know it's there it's an ucation I absolutely agree so let us add need to make it even more crazy by adding in a layer of another elected board because now you're talking about months and months of time before everybody goes back and forth and oh no no no no I'm not looking for approval I'm not looking for approval what I'm saying is is here's the flowchart here's what we need there's a picture like a picture book here's the picture so you guys can all see it visually and here's the written that follows up with that explains that these are the two pages that we need in order for us to do our job we would GL we would kindly like you which also lines up with 16728 these two articles right here is what we are requesting for you guys to provide us so that we can do our job we don't need approval we don't need anything it's saying in order for us to do what our job is we need this please and then the other piece of the puzzle I think that's the way to approach it I think that's the best the other piece of the puzzle is that we are not supposed to let go of things that could be detrimental to the town like we did tonight understood that's like understand cuz if that goes bad now we're relying on sight plan modification remember a couple years ago when that solar uh field came in front of us and I happened to go to conservation and they had a totally different plan in front of them that's why it has to have one head person and that's what I want to fix now person and I understand we need to do is explain it to the other boys it's like this is what is and I want to explain it to and this is this is what needs to be happening and that's the whole thing with the control of information each member of the board should be getting all of the information along the lines the whole entire time not just one person on a board having the the um documents in front of them which is going to bring I'm going to bring this up along with that I agree we need to just but I don't cross that over though can we cross that off I just think that all we need to do is is communicate to the other boards and say this is what is expected in bylaw needs to happen and this is what needs to start happening on every site plan that comes forward and just lay it out that that's what's going to happen yes and because I'm a visual person I would like to have it presented in the way of a flowchart with a follow-up piece of paper that says what the flowchart is pite plans last yep no I'm not creating the flow chart I don't last and and and again not beat a dead horse here but they're not governed by 167 M we can take whatever 167 to govern ourselves and tell them that our problem is that we are governed by a bylaw and that should be in the letter andly and that's what we should be we should because to your point how we going to work on this to that point Who's going to create the flowart I mean I can play with some of it I just I don't yeah so it's but again if if at the next meeting we can have some kind of a rough draft of the flowchart and we can discuss site plan application already which is five pages all we need to do is add a letter at the end that says just to be sure the site plan is the last because of 16728 and have a copy of it there add a copy add a copy of the site plan law to the site plan application and that'll spell it out so can I ask you the last question on this are you severely opposed to us creating a flowchart as a visual to back up everything you just said well yeah as long as no as long as site plans left so let's do that long as side plans last because this is what I'm talking about of us us we're all on the same page well we're all in the same book we're just kind of reading it upside down from each other so that's all it is so I 100% agree with you and I think that the flowchart and a letter that ties into everything you just said is just an addition that will allow for Cascade a cascading message to all the boards so that everybody has clear understanding to protect job this is what we require please please help please please help us and we can't just let it go just because of applicants when we are here for the and now in this town well we have an opportunity now to get this in place so that we can go forward is in place it just needs to happen and and this hopefully this flowchart will allow us to have the communication with the other boards so that it this does not happen again well it should be happening and if bottom line if everything falls into line way it should be according I I think I think if these these are our bylaws that like you said affect some boards but don't affect others will they affect the other I'll wait they adop no they don't I mean 167 is a zoning article I mean if if if conservation decides no they want to dig their heels and I don't see this happening I would like to make a motion that the planning board designs a flowchart with an article behind it explaining the flowchart and then delini ated out to the different chairmans of the board chairpersons of the different boards with communication all or all of the boards and but but hold on including all boards all members of boards to explain to them to explain to them that this is what we need in order for us to do our job and we are asking for their assistance so that we can become more efficient with a big fat please at the end so I think it should be asked site plan application that's current add a a sentence that states that the site plan last send a copy of 16728 in its entirety meaning that section 16728 with all the A's all the B's all the fs all of that and then um what was the last thing that I wanted to State I think that and that the site plan is last yeah I and so because I'm a paint by numbers guy cuz I'm I'm I pretend to be smarter than I am um I would just like to see the visual of the different boxes with arrows I think we need to make it as simple as possible they're not going to read the Bible that's all I'm saying so so they should I know there's a lot of things that people should do but we don't need to have that conversation so at the end of the day and I mean that in like a general sense at the end of the day I think that that flowchart with everything you just said because it that flowchart is saying this picture book is nothing more than these bylaws built out of boxes so these go together and we're asking for your assistance because we need to become more efficient please that's what that was I don't think it's a motion it's more of a request so that's what I would like please and if there's any way that I can help but you guys have a hell of a lot more experience and knowledge of the stuff that's in that book and I know that's my fault but I would defer to you guys for your expertise on this flow chart and I think that we can certainly discuss it and sign off on it next time and then send it out okay and then um on that I would say that a lot of the problem that we have issue is because you remember how last time we voted 5 to Zer to have daily away on on the uh agenda tonight it didn't happen and I've emailed to get it on the agenda per the vote of the planning board and it wasn't allowed on by the chair and that is disregarding the rest of the board and a vote of the entire board and that's wrong wrong I don't really believe that like so remember when I was acting chair cuz I was vice chair acting chair I would send out on Monday a proposed agenda and ask anybody if they had anything to add or subtract this is not Kingdom this is not tyranny you're not the only one who receives messages or calls from residents in the town you have your sphere of influence I have mine Tom has his maybe it overlaps nobody's doing anything incorrectly people in the town reach out to who they're comfortable with to ask a question to or say whatever it is okay when we report in to the town it you you shouldn't just deny people you didn't that's not okay okay there is a certain a certain thing that a chair does a chair puts together the agenda with the minds of all the other elected officials on the board it is absolutely abhorent when you disregard a 5 to Zer vote to put deily away on the planning board agenda okay are you done yes okay now because I did not interrupt you I did not fair to S I did not please don't interrupt me first of all number one you it was asked specifically who the person was and and what is the circumstance that is to go in front of the board to be discussed a refusal of who it was there was no information there were no details as to what was going to be discussed none that is our procedure if we have an anonymous complaint come into a bunk it's disregarded because it's an anonymous complaint so as far as I was concerned what we voted on 5 to0 was could we have a specific Street or an item brought in front of the board my answer would be yes but you have to follow the correct procedures as a matter of fact I called on Tuesday morning before the before the the agenda closed I called uh Miss troop to see what are the details what's going on if specifically on Deal your way that is a non-accepted street all those people that live on that street own the street it's private property if we don't advertise it correctly if we don't present the details we are violating the open meeting laws that was my consideration oh that we could I'm not say we could and because we have no details we have no idea what we were discussing and like you said certainly members of the board can do that I determined and it as as M troop just got through saying also it's the chairman of the board that sets the agenda there were no details on it and I thought once we get the de I I tried I made an honest attempt to try to to get this on the agenda be you know before before the Tuesday closing and I was ignored in fact bottom line the email was sent out after that and I never heard another thing about it it's uh any any dealings that we've had with dealu way in involves private property it's it's a private road we we were told by the uh Selectmen that especially on private situations like that we need Town Council there we could not get Town Council in a matter of a couple of days to to show up at at a meeting tonight to discuss Ste away or or what any other private one my my decision I understand that but bottom line we didn't have enough information we had no idea what's we still don't know what what what wanted to be discussed we're supposed to just sit and wait for Amy to tell us got it there in correct me if I'm wrong it's been in the past that there's been several open meeting violations filed against the board by people in in town and and bottom line uh there was no need to even take that chance there's a criteria that has to be followed she sat on the board for God knows how many years she knows that procedure it's no surprises it it has to be either email sent in or cc to Danielle or or something but it was uh again let me finish so but you just got through saying no stop so that was that was why it's not on for discussion tonight no I'm not on any kind of power trip I'm I'm not out to get anybody or anything and and like was try to brought up before like what you had said there's certain respect that has to be shared between the members and bring it out at a public hearing where you think I work or where I'm employed or whatever that's got nothing to do with it with with anything so I think that's a great place to stop right there so how do we what do we need to do to have deia on have somebody come in and and propose to take a look at it Autumn Lane was on tonight so um that was on a couple of weeks ago as well and did you have any idea why they were coming in or did they just ask absolutely okay right they they they submitted has J way been on the agenda before and so one of one of the residents come on and they ask to discuss what their problem is nobody has to discuss Amy nobody asked this is you coming in saying I talked to somebody you think you can disregard a vote of the board so now you want to change the subject we'll get back to the vot the because we voted 5 to Zer to put it on once again I'll try to finish to to go to bring it on the board for discussion to do any item before the board we need details filed we need a certain procedure to be followed they weren't f follow we had no idea who was talking about we have no idea what what the even the issue was or the case was for deia we have no idea who the person was right we have no details whatsoever how do we know it wasn't the same thing that the meeting last no no no you you wouldn't give any any that's not true I said Mike chapen I absolutely said it I I I absolutely said it he's a man who contacted me to have D way on you canot not dis for what what do you think I don't know you won't tell us what the process is on the didn't follow the she talks I most certainly did most certainly did no okay when you sent the email to uh Cody what did he tell you what did he respond to you nothing no zero cuz you're not right you're wrong no I'm not as usual I'm not wrong as usual you know what people have your number honey now it's getting now it's getting personal it's getting personal everybody keep it professional please so bottom Lane was on deal you and you know what regardless of that dily away was on multiple times because they want to know why they have major road problems because the town didn't follow the bylaws and didn't take a bond on the road it's the same issue that's on here tonight they've been on here again they asked to be on they contacted it is not just you who gets contacted by the town it is not just Danielle and you're certainly no it is it's in it's in writing so it's in writing and it's clearly not okay for when the board votes 5 to Zer that you make a decision if you process the procedure and fill in the details like every other African and everybody wants wants to it's the process it's the process that you didn't follow and now it's everybody El you didn't pay attention to a vote of the board I think you legal advice you what's that didn't you get legal counsel that's beside the point you didn't follow the the the vote of the board I most certainly did no you didn't five to zero was supposed to be on so what do we need to have them on the next board on the next agenda contact Danielle have them either or send an email or come in person like everybody else does and say what what they issue is and what details how do we research it how do we even find out what what's going on in deal or do we just have to assume that we that's what the discussion is for isn't it I thought the official appointment disc discussion about what deala yeah about what on deala come on so so you know exactly at the end you didn't follow the procedure and it's everybody else's fault but yours I understand it's a 5 to zero vote ver you didn't follow the right protocol and procedure oh my God I brought it up said it at the meeting it was on there why you you disregarded a vote I called you Tuesday morning got it a vote I did I called you Tuesday morning I didn't know that did you leave me a message no but you sent an email right afterward do you think I have a number logged in my phone this is do you think I know who it is do you know how many phone calls I get you know we're still on the record so let's just this is going on forever can we change the subject momentarily in in the vein of the planning board trying to do some planning I was wondering if there was a consensus on the board to maybe reach out to a couple people for instance Stop and Shop to see if they have any plans or if they've had any interest in their building after they vacate just trying to see if there's anything going on about you know we don't need another black building in town um and I was also thinking about maybe trying to reach out to the the ownership and I don't know which entity of cumland owns the corner lot on 58 and 106 the old the old cumin Farms if anybody remembers that where BRS used to be and all that that building has become more and more deric there's a there's a zoning issue there where the um it's it's an odd-shaped lot and part of the dirt on the right hand side part of it is Zone business and part of it Zone residential I'm just thinking in terms of maybe touching Bas with the abutter and see if he had any problem with maybe trying to promote an article to change the residential portion of that to business if that would be helpful to a prospective buyer I mean I don't know if anybody's even looked at the place I'm just trying to think of there's anything the planning board could maybe do to help improve that corner because that that is the biggest it's the Deeds restri deed restrictions and it was sold inter Al yeah well that's that's what I'm saying is it depends on who it is uh cuming Farms is Pretty Tough stoping shop is tough so they well they put all kinds of restrictions on what you can't do you can't sell milk you can't sell gas you can't blah blah blah blah but a lot of what the problem is there is the lot configuration in terms of trying to get in and out of their parking in and out of this not a problem but parking cuz it's it's like an l and it's not very deep that building just has to come down and something has to the building is beyond any any repair at this point I'm just thinking outside the box here there's anything we could find out that might be helpful down the road for somebody a Stop and Shop trucker said that a sister store was going in cuz he came by a standout the other day and he was you know rolled down the window he was excited about every all the American flags flying around and he was tooting his horn so we asked him what was in the back and he said it was an empty trailer to remove and we were like oh and he was like don't worry a sister stores coming in you one of the sister stores is s that's correct so that it's going to be fine well that that's good I mean I'm just saying but the other one I think is Ste restri see in in the realm of actually doing something proactive yeah the other one is deed restrictions and it's it's it was sold into nationally yeah no I understand yeah but that doesn't mean something can't go in there that so the residential side I believe would be on the uh 106 um next to Hopkins it's next to Hopkins yeah you can go in Halifax you can go 50 ft into the more restrictive Zone but that may not be enough I haven't actually looked at the map I should do that I think it's like the if it's what is it with the um if you're 50% what like for instance um over on C Street when they were in front of us I have the bylaws I should just read it but what happened it's like when you because that was a residential lot where um Mr Carlson lived and then it had business next to it which I don't they got a special use for industrial over there which that was before yeah they did that was awkward so I don't know who issued the special use for the industrial um I guess B zoning board unless unless particular use by special permit in that I mean that's possible too could be that so I haven't looked into that to find out but there's a bylaw that states something about what is it the 50% usage of the residential what you know which one I'm talking about well the one I was referring was that you can go 50% excuse me 50 F feet into the more restrictive okay that's what I was going for okay hey let's clear the rest of our agenda up so we can rock and roll uh minutes meeting minutes uh September 5th any uh deletions corre s that anyone ever saw I did not find any yet I was fine okay then I'll accept a motion to accept the meetings as minutes as presented for September 5th 2024 moved second uh all those in favor say hi hi unanimous uh minute meetings for Thursday September 19 2024 any changes deletions or corrections I did not find any fine I'll accept the motion to accept the am minuts as presented for this September 19th 2024 moved second uh all those in favor of accepting the Amendments as presented please say I I abstain what's that abstain uh passes uh three in favor one exstension okay uh what else do we have how about a motion to adjourn we have uh nothing else I think I think that was it I'll make a I think that's it I'll accept a motion to adjourn second all those in favor say I I so more