##VIDEO ID:ptT1CNZPgk0## [Music] good evening uh this is the August 27th 2024 Conservation Commission meeting um I just want to make an announcement that this meeting is being recorded by area 58 and can be viewed on YouTube members present tonight is Miss King Mr Diaz and Ed Lane our first order of business as the is the just so everybody's clear as the agenda says we are going to be taking stuff that sort of out of order and they're just going to be some small stuff we're going to start this evening with eight Hill the lane roadway D SE number 17105 74 we have a request for continuance I just want to make a comment that I've reached out to the applicant on this and they indicated that potentially they were going to withdraw for lack of um getting us any information so it's my suggestion that this would be the last continuance but that's up to the board um but I would be looking for a motion to continue this with any conditions um make a motion to continue a hild Delan and with the new information that the chair presented that this be the last continuance okay who I'll second the motion okay all in favor three Z all in favor three Z okay next item on the agenda is 8 Hill L uh D number SE 171579 the applicant has requested a continuance until 910 and this would be the same as the prior I make a motion to continue the hearing with the condition that it' be the last hearing I'll second that motion okay all in favor I I next order of business is 8 Hill the lane uh D number SE 17158 this is in the same Rong with things so I would be looking for an additional motion I make a motion that we continue the hearing with the condition that it be the last continued hearing I'll second the motion okay all in favor I I I 3 Z next matter on the agender is going to be 105 Palmer Mill [Applause] Road this is the Webby um before we begin um I get notice this afternoon that the review fees have not been paid on this particular project so I think the commission is going to take the position until such time as the review fees are paid that will either close the hearing if you so choose um or we're not going to take any action well so anybody that wants to address it can can address that issue yes hi my name is John dway I'm here on behalf fosi construction Tim fosi first question would be what's the outstanding balance on the fees I think it's $2,200 my understanding is ,600 has been paid already and we were actually looking for an accounting as to that number and then 2200 I believe is for a different lot than 105 Palmer mil um that's for the abing lot um you very could be correct that I'm not sure I did follow the chain of emails as far as we're concerned the one of this particular lot when when it was went out to be reviewed they found out there was Wetland disturbance which created the additional um issues with money so that's what I understand right now so if you have a different position all I know is we have an outstanding invoice with $2,200 if you either you're going to pay that or um I have a couple the invoice but but that invoice again refers to a a uh notice of intent that hasn't filed you have 107 following M Road we're talking about 105 the information that I have is for 105 this one is job supp date 722 2024 proposed number W q23 d713 D2 job supplement pay review 105 pal Mill Road map 84 Lot 4 subdivision lot 7 Halifax Massachusetts so okay so this is invoice to the commission is listed for 105 Palmer Mill Road we don't have it invoice for 107 okay I think maybe the street address is the problem um having said that yes this should have been worked out there's multiple emails went out for reminders and I got cced on those this should be addressed with the office you know we're volunteers so with ecosystem or with no this is got to be addressed for the office the the work was completed there's reports that have been done there's an outstanding balance that's all I can tell you with this point is there any update as to the work that's been done with the money that's been spent so far the 1600 the the reports have been submitted I can tell you that I reviewed the reports I didn't review any accounting on the reports um we don't um I know an invoice invoices must have gone out proposal must have gone out um and that's where we we have for balance so go ahead Mr L is said there some major confusion on this matter with the 105 107 payments would it paid I this is just my opinion I think we should continue it until that's trained out that's just my opinion one member of the board I hate to see another continuance without some sort of status update as to the progress on the order conditions itself and u i I think two meetings ago we had had a um uh statement from the ecosystem solutions that uh they were going to be working on the order of conditions so I don't know if there's you know any updates as to or if anything's been done on it I know that the new orders the excuse me the um the reviews have come in um and they haven't been paid that M king um I was the ecosystems is behind you I was just ask there and he I just refer to the conditions or anything to answer his questions in the boards if if they are done or if there can be an update with the applicant and somewhat of a timely manner I'm going to limit it to I I think that that this should have been dealt with at the office level I'm going to say that there was at least three reminders that have gone out so I don't think that this format that should be able we should try to address the bill if there's an issue with the bill come into the office um sit down with the admin and we'll come up with the conclusion but I don't think this is the format so you've got an option if you want to continue it or you want us to close the hearing no we'd rather continue than close the hearing but we just want to make a statement on the record that we think we're being treated unfairly under the with an application of the rules here and um but we look forward to discussing it at the next year okay thanks okay I'm looking for a motion to continue Joe I'm sorry Mr webby's trying to talk am please I know you're I would like to suggest the U the carrot and the stick method we we're here uh the only changes we've done to the plan is add a post and rail fence along the 50t uh line from the BBW and as far as we know right now that is the last thing that was requested from the commission I think that and I have no problem at all and I'm sure that Tim can speak for himself if we can get through to a closing hearing um so that it's sufficient to to issue an order of conditions and you have it in a pile of papers that stay there until the money gets paid that's the that's that's the stick I mean you know what I mean so okay I have not seen a plan with the post and real fence um so at this point go ahead to because there's such confusion there projects been in front of us so long I'd like to propose that we at least he Mr Webby out see the plans that have been changed but take no action until payment has been made and the confusion is all handled that way the next time you guys come in we can hopefully just move forward um I don't see the I Kim on this one just have them presented don't vote on it and okay if I may we we submitted these revised plans to Peggy last Thursday u in hopes that we would get on the agenda with the revised plans and we certainly did did uh but all we added was a post and rail fence that'll have signage on it right along the uh the 50t line we have a detail of the fence um and I can see ecosystem has a copy of it right there in the lap so I know that's somehow it it has been uh you know at least submitted uh so and basically nothing else has changed so we would like to I guess I I would like to ask for the closing of the hearing and hopefully you issue a an order of conditions okay so the difference between the prior plan and this plan is a post and real friend that's correct the only difference what about the restoration the restoration plan we've already submitted uh and I think that was part of the I don't want to speak recos system but that was part of the review of the conservation mix uh to be placed any that was uh exposed and Tim is willing to do that he he has pictures of this being left uh wild let's say it to grow as it is and this is already heavily vegetated with with weeds but uh it's basically conservation mix it's just weeds but it's uh and if we put up post and rail fence that's going to be just left like to to act on its own we're still willing to do conservation Mi there for the winter time but other than that it's again I think we're not confusing things but we're adding two different things here together okay any board's going answer questions Mr weby no than just thank you for revising the plan as the board had asked a few me uh was it reviewed by ecosystems i' like to hear from yes that's my next that was my question do I need to speak into my microphone or anything uh just talk into that one just turn that one around so you can okay oh I'm sorry there is one there I'm sorry yeah speak into that one please Brandon F system Solutions is it on says it's on I received this uh from Peggy uh today this this plan right here um so I haven't had a lot of time to look at it that said I noticed uh two differences from the original plan um split rail fence like Joe was just saying and the fact that the dwelling has been shifted to the South compared to the the original one um so you not much of a substantial change as as far as work um uh you know within the limit of uh approved limit of work will ultimately be the approv LI of work the question though is what do we do with that plus or minus 50ft zone between the Wetland and the area they're going to put the split rail fence that they uh jump the gun on so to speak with the clearing of the land without a permit uh is a allowing it to grow up naturally putting in a or putting in a seed mix uh will that satisfy the commission or do you think it needs to be a little more robust than that does Woody vegetation have to be supplemented that's the question so I I noticed when I was out there as far as trees there's in the surrounding area immediate surrounding area there's there's white pine Red Maple and black cherry uh also uh a minor amount of uh Cottonwood as far as shrubs I noticed that there's uh uh Arrow wood there is high Bush blueberry and there's a lot of glossy Buckthorn which is an invasive plant okay uh there's also a moderate amount of or uh Asiatic bitter Suite which is another invasive plant uh so the question is you know do you do you think that Woody vegetation needs to be supplemented in that 50ft uh Zone Zone uh that the work was done uh ahead of schedule let's call it I my question would be Mr Wy do we know what was cleared early well I think it's like Brandon said is the the vegetation that's left I think is is the same right and you would mentioned a lot as weedy area so before I made a decision I wanted to clarify if it was just a weedy area or more of what Brandon had said it okay Ed any um about the evasive planets do you recommend that we have them remove it or leave as is I'm always a fan of uh eradicating invasive plants as a mitigative measure uh the thing about that that that's an investment because you can't just cut it down and expect the job to be done you have to go back for at least 3 years to make sure that you get it all and it stay it goes away and stays away so there's a bit of an investment associated with with the base of plants there's still an investment associated with planting you know new vegetation as well there's a usually a 2-year performance standard uh regarding survivability so either way you get an investment and time I do have one question the restoration plan that was presented did not include any Woody vegetation I think there was some some discussion about seeds that were going to be put in some sort of planting of seeds we had just proposed conservation mix that's correct okay which would have been telling in conservation mix in the present soils yes okay with no woody vegetation that would have been renoved we would okay allow whatever Woody vegetation wants to come back to that and just come back okay unless unless little whatever so I guess the question of the commission is their plan doesn't seem to be suitable at this point because you get so much vegetation let me just finish so should we be looking for some Woody vegetation or trees so that they don't have to go back in there dig up everything that's there trees of the species that a typical of that area which would be the Cherry Pine or Maple I don't know which one's the which is going to be the easiest or least expensive does matter okay so do you think that that would be the appropriate course of action versus having them go there until it well the the question is what was the nature of that 50 foot Zone before so can we go back to Tim answering what he CL okay if he wants to get up okay want to get up to the speaker you got a comment yeah so uh obviously Tim fosi Tim fosi um so I have a letter read from the woman who sold the property Andrea hey that property was a uh flower farm and was full of green houses and what have you for over a hundred years it wasn't full of Hardwoods um and she wrote a letter stating that what's growing back now naturally is what's been there her entire life so that answers that and if I could add my um land cleaner he mow Cuts so that's why the vegetation is so strong coming back cuz the thatch is still there I have all the photos to show in 2 months it's 5 ft high and I can show you photos it's solid you cannot see the soil it's solid that doesn't just happen that's hundreds of years of vegetation and thank you very much for coming out okay any other questions so the question for the commission is he did go in cut it down what is the most practical plan for more vegetation to make sure no one else goes in there to clean it up it would be some sort of a Woody type of tree that's probably going to be the the less intrusive if that's the commission's uh pleasure um the those three species I mentioned are the most common in the immediate surrounding area if you decide to go that route I think that um you know 25 feet on Center is a is a good spacing because that allows them to grow up you know over a 20 30 year period and Crown out adequately and then there question of whether or not you think any understory needs to be supplemented like trums that are in the area as well and if you go that route the two species that I saw that were most common where High Bush blueberry and uh Arrowwood and those uh I think if you if you required that 15 ft on Center is a good good spacing for those disturbance line Mr Webby can you just point out how much of a disturbance line is there you added some post and rail fence I I haven't seen the point so how much post and whe fence did you add but we we added quite a bit almost from from here almost all the way to the property l so it's about 150 ft okay so if you you you've got 150 ft of area um with some sort of trees every 25 ft or potent and potentially some high blush blueberries in between those is is that right I think at 25t separation we're talking for Tre you want start in so put in the center the thing about this plan is it does not show the current tree line but I do know that it's it's somewhere down around the w b here okay yeah I would I would agree with that I I I found flag A3 right right at the the new tree line and flags A1 and two I could not find CU I my my opinion is that probably got cut down with whatever vegetation was there okay but but but I think the line is the line is can't be that much further off I think here's the line there we should be okay so the question now is is what should be required for replanting because they chewed everything up are we looking at a half a dozen trees or we looking at Sweet blueberry bushes uh in between those um and I think somebody should Sol a commission what they want to do you want to plant he doesn't want to plant um I did see the photographs um the vegetation did come back up we've had a wet season so I'm not inclined to say go in and mow everything up to plant a you know a Wetlands no we don't want Wetlands well not a Wetlands but any sort of seeds um would you agree Brandon so I think we need to do is come up with what you propos to do in there i' personally like to see a mix but I'd like to see the blueberries replaced um I'm not necessarily on board replacing the hardwood the Cottonwood the maples the black cherries and Pines but where we are right near the wet Wetlands the blueberries that potentially were taken down feed the wildlife and everything else and they R and they'll and they'll be good for you in the future for the Wetland not to approach even further because they rroo and they do all that fancy stuff so I personally like to see blue blueberries replanted I sec I like that through the chair yes sir if that's your wish it's not a ble um but um based on my experience if you can plant 100 blueberries uh but if you don't do anything about the invasive species like the Bittersweet fine and the born they're going to take over on their own and they're going to they're going to shade out the the blueberries so my recommendation is go with the blueberries but also have an invasive species control plan in place at the same time over like 2 or three year period would you be against doing the invasive species control plan and removing the invasive species so that's you want going to May ask Mr weby well I have a quick letter from the um former owner of the property it's about three sentences long if I could read it Y for the for the boy it says to whom it may concern my name is Andrea Haye my familyowned old man's Farm located at 111 Palmer Mill Road for over 75 years until recently we sold the land to Tim brosi he's clearing the land to build new homes I still lived in 111 Palmer Mill when he purchased the land I watched them clear the land while clearing I watched them pull out a ton of debris this included tractors toilets steel fencing water heaters furnaces and more it was also a relief that they removed dangerous trees from along the road and ones that had hung over my neighbor's yard that I had worried about for many years uh I visited I visit my old home frequently and can see that the plants are growing back right now in all the years I've lived there the plants that are growing back are the same as what had always been there and it looks to be doing very well the Nostalgia of old man Farm is back to its Glory the surrounding neighbors and I are so happy to see how clean everything looks so I just wanted to get that uh her statement in there okay the question was is I want you address that question they want to so blueberries I think the concern is that is that blueberries I think are a wetland species so this the concern would be if this ground is wet enough to support the blueberries and uh that's the concern is hold on a second so my question was though who are you addressing are you attorney or Mr Webby whever in the group has the best answer is are you against removing the invasive species can I speak okay so the honeysuckle is rampant over there and there's another one called the I think it's black olive something like that is that right Autumn Olive Autumn Olive okay so I went through the property you were there as well with Margaret from your office and she spoke same thing she is like you can go in there to take that out it's loaded in the wetlands but we never actually went into the wetlands this is the buffer zone the buffer zone didn't have any blueberries it was just honeysuckle wrapped around it looks like rope and if you look at some photos right here show you if you look in the background you can still see it growing all through the trees it's all still in there we're only in the buffer zone but if you look at these photos that's as of today it's almost 5T tall and you can't see one in of soil there was never any blueberries if you put something in there if you go to the bylaws it says if you go into a buffer zone you can't change the elevation you can't change the species can't change drainage uh you can't create destruction there's no destruction because it grew right back in less than 3 months elevation is the same vegetation is the same all we did was what is allowed you can take out evasive shrubs which we did and we took out debris when I say debris we filled a dumpster with tractors toilets water heaters and then we took down rotted trees that are all along the street in the center it was just brush like brush you couldn't even walk through it and if Joe Webby remembers when they tried to do a perk test they couldn't even get a machine in there it was just like rope and that's the honeysuckle so if you want me to go into the wetlands to get the evasive uh Honeysuckle and that I call black olive I would literally be in the the wetlands we never went in the wetlands we're in the buffer we're before the wetlands so if you put a a wetland plant before it's wet it won't live not to mention the the organic shrubs are just going to choke that out cuz it's already 5 ft tall so you're going to put a baby in there it's just going to get sucked up okay but are you willing to remove the invasive species that are not in the wetlands we have already that's what we did but we want this we're going want the invasive control plan and you to do it for a good three years and as Brandon has said it's going to be an investment yeah we could Al baby said I only live right down the street I live in this town and I built a subdivision walking distance from there and it's like we never there's nothing to gain not just saying is there's nothing for us to gain doing this we did this for there's a woman over here is going to be living there we want to clean the property so we mulch cut to clean it we had to take out tons of trash and then all the vines and everything else so if we were to put it back the way it was I would have to go get a dumpster and bring it and dump it and then as far as hotwoods there was no hotwoods the only hotwoods that were out there were there some broken over cherries and some scrub Pines and stuff like that and everyone in that neighborhood can tell you exactly what was there cuz they seen it and they applaud it they all sat out there and loved it and they still do the only one who was upset is the board because I didn't no anyone that we were cleaning it and yeah we did go ramb bues we were right in there because there's a reason the potential buy over here she's losing her lease she needs to get into a house so yeah we did jump the gun we're like we got to go we got to get her in there before December her lease is up so we did go after it typically i' take my time go to Florida for the win but we're trying to get her into her house so that's the reasoning behind it and again there was nothing to gain by going into a buffer I I I understand that but that could have been addressed to the board too and maybe asked us to move more timely and move the plan forward I mean I understand it I'm sympathetic however there's still bylaws and regulations and policies to right A lot of it comes to communication like when I have my cleaning guys there right so the brush Cutters cuz we couldn't even get into the property so when the brush Cutters go in and of course he's a super nice guy Brendan local guy same thing he's in that cleaning I'm like we can't go into the wetlands and we flagged them so we knew where they were and we never went into the wetlands but I don't think he understood that we have to have like a buffer so he was like oh Tim I clean this I clean this I got this i got this and he did a great job but again he doesn't have an escavator he has a mow it's a brush mow looks like a big saw blade it grinds it up but he also took all the rubbish out we never would have knew it was there so I mean yeah there's there's damage but it grew back twice as strong and we have the previous owner telling us that it's the same vet vitation you know what I mean so I mean you look you weigh it out okay we put up a split rail fence we put posting tells people you're entering into a wet lights is it what was the what's the damage you know what I mean I think it grew back better and we clean the yard this is I don't know any more questions I think so that good well I do have one question you you did realize that when you went in at a cut that you were in the buffer zone I wasn't even there okay all right so that's right so I mean and you're familiar with conservation you built a subdivision so you knew you should have come to the commission whether there's junk in there there's trash just get permission to come in to do it that's my own I'm going just going to make a suggestion that maybe potentially the the um Brendan and Mr Webby should get together and come up with some sort of a planting schedule you're going to have to plant something it's just a matter of what um um you've got some conversation about blueberry bushes you got the invasion species issues if you want to put your heads together and come up with a plan that's that makes everybody happy then I think the commission will be happy and for for me it can be any type of food plant guys like anything that's on the list that'll work there I'm all for yeah so it doesn't have to be a blueberry anything that will feed Brendon and Mr web would be able to give you a nice long list DA has a fantastic book on what's allowed what's not in downed areas and things so there's a lot of options there so we can take the original plan they submitted not use that plan and I think you should come up with a plan um and you can consult with the review um obviously once he's paid come up with a plan that I think is going to be suitable that he's going to recommend and we're going to be comfortable with but I think you got the pulse that you going to have to point something in it so if I understand correctly and I'm curious how you and Ed feel too that we'd be looking for the planting schedule and an invasive control species plan for for the next meeting along with an update on all the financials that the board doesn't handle but obviously that need to be addressed we have to call in for an audit on that I'm just trying to figure out not to take the everyone's time was things that go over but again you put back what was there if it wasn't there we're putting in something that wasn't and the bylaw says not to change the vegetation but that's exactly what we' be doing but I'll do it if that's what you want do you have photos of what was there prior I have the woman who lived here for 100 years she's she's been there for 75 years I guess the balls in your court if um if you want to give it a few minutes and you guys discuss it and come up with some sort of a plan that's up to you uh but we we do need some direction or or if you want us to close the hearing we can close the hearing but I think you know what the sentiment is so um it's your your call okay converse with my group okay you want to you want to continue it just for another hour or so cuz we're going to be tied up what do you want to continue it and come up with a planning schedule for next week I'm going to continue with the next one or okay we'll try to figure out an hour we get an hour okay okay right do we have to make a motion to continue no they're only going to we're not on official continu okay next item on the agenda is going to be 265 mon pona Street it's a continued storm water management uh hearing Mr chairman you if I did 266 first um I don't have a problem with that back I think there was more questions on that one okay did you get there's the in the plants of what I emailed yesterday keep them away from no I'm just the pl you hear it on when they're doing the tape all you hear is the paper shu [Music] we're just going to need five minutes till Miss King comes back sure problem did did we have a package that you receive this I think so I an email okay um yeah I did see we don't have packages I'm going to give this back to him this is the this is the letter yep 266 Dave do you have soil logs on that one yeah they're in the plants okay can you bring soil logs up any particular test pits can you bring them up if we need yeah this is 266 yeah 266 yeah that's the small Peach F that's the peach no that's 266 across the street is it 266 each oh is small small one West [Music] to that's right told take daab we're ready for you uh good evening D development here to discuss the strong water permit for 266 second they got it they got it quiet down they got it quiet down so I apologize I wasn't at the previous hearing I was on vacation but my uh cohorts uh relay notes to me uh there were uh kind of three main issues that reached my ear regarding 266 um and I sent a letter uh yesterday kind of with a written response on these matters so there was a request for a uh traffic management plan which isn't really a technically storm water uh matter but nonetheless uh there was concern about um when particularly when trucks were coming to and from the site whether they would be parked in the street disturbing traffic and that sort of thing so this gets into kind of construction management um scheduling and the like but the specific request was to put together a plan showing uh proposed signage particularly uh no parking signage that um uh we would place along mon plon street so this plan shows um kind of these red dots and in each one of these locations there would be a No Parking and no standing sign cuz that's really the issue the trucks aren't going to park out there forever but they'll probably wait there so trying to get them moving and then also I find with this you whenever you tell someone not to do something you want to tell them what you want them to do so it it kind of combines with construction entry signs which are these uh orange squares there that specifically say the address this is the construction entry so you can get the trucks off the street as quickly as possible um once we're up and running o sorry we have uh you know full-time construction supervision there and usually it's a staff of about five folks and folks that can help actually help direct traffic if it's an issue um so this is our construction entrance as shown on all the plans so we'll put a construction entry sign adjacent to that this is going to be our preliminary construction entrance across the street that is where the um existing driveway is for the old house and garage uh that was located on that property before it burned down um and it was also demoed so that's where we're going to start and then once we build the road in to 265 which goes in right here we'll move the construction urance to here this is the site that's destined to be the senior center for the town so this location is coincident where the driveway will be for that Senior Center so whoever builds the senior center whether it's us or someone else that you choose can get double use out of that construction entrance in the future um so that's essentially the traffic management plan again in my letter um so I sent this to um uh Chief Chavez as well and um uh I understand appication but when we get into the nitty-gritty of um police details and specifics and you know having to get into the road for connection the like we'll coordinate you know on a pretty much daily basis when we get into those types of situations and uh you know to schedule any uh police details that are necessary um so that's the that's kind of the response on the traffic management plan okay I think is everybody comfortable with that yeah that will go in the planning board too uh no ma'am hold on hold on okay um if you got a question through the chair but you're going to have to go to the mic so what I'd like to do is if you got some questions before he finishes this then I'll get you up because I think he's going to I think he's going to move to the next screen so if you have a particular question on this feel free just come up identify yourself just name an address and we'll be fine oh yeah just go back to the we I'd like to finish that Dave and then we'll back to to the microphone then um okay I know I'm okay is it on it should be Joan Rosen from C11 L Lane I was just asking if this signage was going to go in front of the planning board too cuz I don't know if it's cons so this so we went through planning board hearings for both sites and they never asked for this so no and again the really really this is just just to this is traffic safety this is Highway and police it doesn't belong this is Highway and police just I can just explain um I have spoken with Chief chavs because I put him on notice that this this particular project with 15,000 cubic yards of dirt is about 750 trucks so it's it's this commission's concern even though it might not be in their pview to make sure that we're not going to have a traffic issue the trucks aren't going to be parking on Route 58 and we asked them to come up with a plan which will forward to Chief chabs and he'll approve that um everything to me looks pretty good other than I think um no parking sign should be a little further south but that's up for the for the chief to decide yeah I was uncomfortable placing um signs in front of a Butter's property so I I just want to point out that I did reach out the highway on this particular but he's on vacation so um I'll reach out to him um because he'll have to approve I also um made some quiry one of the members of the traffic commission just to make sure that you can do that but okay if you don't mind going on to the next screen sure just is we're we're about to submit next week our uh plan that relates to the crosswalk and signalization to the select board because as they are the highway Commissioners I believe so um that was recommended by the Traffic Safety Committee so if there's something else we want to feather into that um process I'd be more than willing to okay one of the other um issues that was brought up was snow storage and the commission shared with us um a uh kind of pamphlet if you will snow disposal guidance from the Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection so we we reviewed that document and basically it's a guide um for helping municipality and businesses select snow storage sites when it's going to have to get hauled so it's it's really meant for kind of a bigger scale situation than this but it lays out kind of a nice hierarchy of kind of good better best locations for storing snow um all to help prevent environmentally sensitive areas so we developed a um uh a snow storage plan so this is 265 on ponet so this plan is where if we have to if we get snows to a level where we actually have to haul snow and remove it from 266 located here these are locations that are shown kind of by order of priority where we could um uh deposit the snow on 265 so the um so we've kind of picked it in order so this one here the snow storage in the paved area so this is really the best uh location and the reason why it's the best is because it flows through the full treatment train of catch basins with deep sumps then to the storm water with the four bays and all that type of stuff so it's areas that are paved but not on top of catch basins are really the the best so that's our first priority this site has 14 Extra Spaces uh Beyond what's required uh by zoning and all the handicap access to the building is from the rear so again they're kind of surplus spaces and again this is kind of a let's say extreme event when you're starting to have have to haul snow so that's kind of the first area the second areas are these blue areas which are on um what will be basically me and outside of not only the 50ft but the 100t buffer so the DP recommendations were to stay at least 50 ft away from waterways and wetlands and these areas are full 100 ft the third area that we've identified is right here um again that's the third in the list of priorities so this is adjacent to our detention Basin so it's not quite as good as the other ones cuz it Doesn't flow through 100t of vegetation it doesn't flow through the catch basins but it does flow into the storm water um management Basin and as part of our operation maintenance plan it's a requirement to remove sediment from that anyways so we will be going after that usually annually to um uh to remove any sediment that gets accumulated there from the snow storage so this you know all three areas are satisfactory relative to the D U memo and this also does not take all of the area on 265 that's available for snow storage you still have areas around here and here you know this area here uh along here here you know so there's so we didn't we didn't take up kind of all the areas for 266 recognizing that 265 is still going to have snow there as well so that's I a question hold on hold on okay so that's the uh the uh again snow storage plan that we came up okay um any questions from no one question I have and then I'll go to the audience is that um you did very extensive calculations for runoff um do we need to be concerned with the additional amount of snow runoff there capacity to the basins so runoff from snow melt is a is quite slow when you're comparing with the two 10 you know 100e you know type of storm event so um it's not going to contribute significantly to you know storm water run off within the site plus the stuff that's would be located here and here kind of flows into the wetlands after a close through 100 ft of vegetation and is uh you know separate from the uh let's say the St bth what I'm going to do is ask the commission because based on the original plan he had snow storage on 266 and then but that was in the wrong place we were asked to take it off because it was located on top of and this can probably be done with a phone call I'm just I just want to make sure that you that Pat Brennan I don't know if he was part of this conversation he reviewed all the storm water calculations um and I know in most of these cases you've exceed Ed um the requirements so I don't know that that's a major ISS part that's part of the storm water management there's really no um uh consideration for snow mouth cor all right um I have a gentleman it's not part of the kind of required formula okay I'm going to turn it over to the audience I yes sir just identify yourself name and address for the record so my name is Bruce minet I live at c25 Li Lane the condominium complex just north of uh 265 um so I'm an original owner I've been there over 40 years okay Mr man just hold on one second we are currently talking primarily about across the street the peach farm well he just referenced 26 correct so just so that this is it's it's where the snow is going to go so if you yeah if you've got concerns on this particular one we're going to address that next okay so but but I think this I think this is this is what I want to talk about right now so we've had water table problems high water table problems in our neighborhood since day one um right now quos go from 300 $330,000 each which blows my mind but but that's what they go for that makes our neighborhood somewhere between a 35 and $40 million neighborhood um my concern is that we have a high water table and now they want to take snow from across the street and put it right next to us to melt it just doesn't make sense to me I mean I'm already something I'm already want to talk about with on the other one is that it's 72 units at 100,000 gallons a year I mean our our water bills are based on 50,000 gallons every 6 months 100,000 gallons a year time 72 units is like 7.2 million gallons a year that's going to go into the ground out of faucets tubs laundry whatever into the ground right next to us again we have a high water table now we're talking about putting snow in right next to us to melt in that same same area I mean if if something goes wrong with this and I don't know if there's been a study done on the 7 to 8 million gallons is going to go from the water tower into the ground right next to us but if something goes wrong with this in the town okay is this I'm assuming the town is going to be liable and and that creates a big problem so so I have issues with the snow being moved here but I also think that the town some board I addressed the planning board with this the other night some board in the town should require that the Builder puts a fund uh creates a fund that the town controls so that if we do end up with a big problem in our neighborhood the money is there to take care of okay okay if if you'd like I can I'll address just just briefly this is never brief um there's been extensive studies on the groundwater in that area uh the groundwater the surface groundwater travels in a in a South Southeast pattern down towards Turkey Swamp um I personally have looked at this plan extensively I've looked at modeling and we can go back to the modeling that's in the on these plans I've looked at modeling at your facility at the liquor store okay and all the adjacent properties and modeling is the highest most point that ground water can go uh unfortunately your facility you've had flooding there for years it was built a little too low um so you've had this piping in there that's drains off some of the water and there was some folks in earlier that everybody's got some pumps but the calculations they've done account for the perious areas the imperious areas and with the amount of basin that they're creating that based on the scientific principles it meets the requirements and it's above the modeling and there is there is a cushion between modeling which is an ancient stain in the soil which is the highest that it can go in actual groundwater so there is a sort of a cushion there um so when would the when was all this testing done on the groundwater for this project or it's very this particular project and I reviewed septic plans for for the half a dozen septic systems that were done in your facility the one was done at the Licor store the one that was done at the um uh SE the housing um and I looked at br elevations and I looked at modeling elevations um and they're reasonably close there are some areas where the modeling is a little bit lower um but unfortunately I think the commission has to look at it from a scientific Point does this meet the requirements that the feds have established for storm water management um is there a fund available no I don't see anything in our jurisdiction that would allow us to require a fund to to be established if you had some additional flooding um but based on this plan that's been extensively reviewed any excess surface water should be traveling down to where it says snow storage that's the natural way for it to go okay it would stand to reason that we already have some pumps and we'll say a third of the units in that uh project that I live in have water in this Sol in the spring that 8 million gallons that leave that tank and go into the ground next door to us and whatever the snow is I mean some years we had a year not long ago was 102 in of snow it's got to make a difference it's got to make it worse right I I I I I don't agree only because I don't I don't see how it could not have some kind of effect the impact is greater on the catch patients than it is on the snow um it's only my opinion I you can um we can ask you know we can ask the professionals but we've had the professional review it it it um I don't know that we've asked them because just just come in to review um the amount of snow that's coming in but I I would have to agree that the impact of placing that snow near a near a potential uh basin um is minimal that's that's just my opinion it would seem to me it's going to have some kind of effect I would urge I'm going to I'm going to write a letter I'm going to put this in writing and send it to every board in the town but I would urge people to on the boards to think about it talk to other boards and maybe come up with a plan where they can be money for this I mean if the place gets built and nothing happens for 10 years okay It Go to b something like that but but I can't imagine if not going to have an effect on on our neigh unfortunately this we don't have the authority on the storm water management we have that Authority that's what the planning board also told me you know we have to follow the laws we just can't make theth um well if if this was under subdivision control then the planning board it's not a subdivision control cuz it's a form a um under conservation if under our conservation umbrella if we felt as though that something might not work that they proposed whether it be the replication area or the amount of capacity then we could require a bond that door is already closed um all we're doing now is trying to make sure that the the engineers and the scientists that have developed these storm water standards we're following them that's that's our goal so it seems to me as it would be in the best interest of the to to try to create a bond or a fund to take care of this I'm just pointing this out this is my opinion because things go bad we have 115 if somebody's wrong we have 115 homeowners that are going to be looking for some kind of fix some kind of help from the town okay I just want to point out if if I don't I think that's probably a 60in scale all right correct Dave so the retention Pawn which would be more intrusive to you guys would is probably 150 ft away from the property line yeah 120 in your snow storage areas are 100 100 plus Mr chairman I actually have slides that speak specifically to this as part of the 265 presentation okay would you know okay so well you say that but you take talking about taking snow from 266 and putting it 265 so how did that not how do that not affect it okay so I have I have a question Mr chair my question would be would the board have an authority for security documents we may not be able to do a bond or other things but in 16414 we can do security or a security document but we've never done them before so I don't know if it would be appropriate for this applicant or if it's something that we may be able to investigate and research and deliver an answer at the next meeting okay I'm I'm going to tell you no cuz I did the research and you'll see the letter from from Council um on another matter 164 10 is Wetlands protection we are now working under storm water so we've got another set of guidelines that we're following I have not seen anything in in storm water that allows us the authority to um to require a bond um it's it's the emphasis and the requirement that the engineers or the applicants provide us the scientific proof and and this is all science that let me just let me just yeah it's yes so again to answer your question there's nothing in snowm water that I've seen that allows us to do that again 16410 is Redland so go ahead sir just the engineers for the applicant M so does the town have their own Engineers very extensively yes this has been reviewed by U our engineer and he had lots of comments and we we got to say which one here we had comments um they've addressed all of the comments okay however tonight moving snow across the street to within 150 ft of us is new starting tonight right correct none of these people have heard about this correct so this is new okay okay okay yes sir go ahead no Dave we got another one from the Chris wz 129 circuit Street uh just let me just Dave at this point we're we're on 266 but this plan shows 265 just for clarity so if you want to just address the snow anything else we'll address when they open the next meeting uh what amount of snow at 266 M it triggers to move it across the street to 265 I mean does a snow contractor do two swipes of the packing lot and that's too much snow move it across and who enforces that and I guess the last question is uh I'm go guess that it'll be bid out to different snow contractors over the years to take care of the property if a different contractor stats high and snow in 266 and doesn't transport it I'm going to n I'm going to have you narrow we're going to narrow that down I'm going to have him ask you the the answer the first question whoever does a snow removal is going to be we don't know who that is so um I know the answer to your question but Dave you you're going to have to answer that how much at what point is Snow from 26 6 going over to 265 essentially when it's in the way so if you can't maintain adequate width of your drive aisles for Access of safety equipment and you can't get to The Pedestrian doors that you need to get to You Haul it's the simple as that Chris my experience if they get 2 Ines of snow they hauling it across the street my other question only personal opinion just if they don't haul away would it overflow the drainage system on 266 no until the properties out back no all that's is in consideration when when you're doing all your drainage GS I don't want are there any other questions regard snow storage anything else anybody from the audience on snow storage ask a question Amy troo 10 Hillside F I'm going to ask to say that if the conservation is already done um an order of conditions and now we're putting snow on 265 I would think that that order of conditions would need to be reopened due to the fact that we're adding water to the site after that is closed so therefore we would need to reopen and recalculate that because it is not included in the order of conditions okay I'll just answer that very quickly um the order conditions was based on the retention Basin in the wetlands area the rest of the possible they own so hold on okay we I've answered the question question again what is your name again David what what is itair what is what what is what is the uh applicant's name David Estridge right is he an engineer Miss CH I'm asking S Storage I'm asking if he's partner in The Firm okay I'm not ask him his qualification he doesn't need to be he's here as a representative okay he does he don't doesn't need any special qualification if you want to address the snow storage issue that's what we'll address okay from where what company is he from Thorndike development so he's not from jde civil which is the engineering firm or pgb engineering is that correct I don't need an answer I know the answer okay okay okay any other questions on this I I'm just wondering if Miss troop's calling out a conflict of interest here and trying to bring something toight to the whole public we should all be aware of I I have the minute I'm making it known to the public that any questions about engineering have that of any snow that has moved across the street has not been been prer engineered by pgb I don't care if it's been done by jde we we hire pgb to do the engineering firm and Engineering peer review for the town of Halifax it has not been done that is new tonight correct and that the questions that relate to engineering cannot be answered by the applicant especially when he is not an engineer okay very good thank you any other questions on the snow at this point because the board will have to take so if if not you've addressed the traffic issues you've addressed the snow removal um the other issues were uh sulation barrier trees that are going to impact one of the neighbors yep so the um the third item I had and again so there was a lot of questions I guess regarding the area between our parcel again we're going back to 266 here which is the subject matter at the moment and the plaza to the north and kind of what was happening with the drainage there and so there was questions regarding does that site really look like that site is it accurate on the existing conditions plan so we went out and too you know all the way up to the building and found that the braids are essentially the same um so that there's nothing different on the hydrology and to be frank this we can't change anything over here the water that's coming to our site from this site and again this is water that's coming from offsite to our site not the other way around whatever it is now is what it's going to be in the future so I kind of wanted to make that that point um this is so this is a Watership map so this is the existing conditions and this shows general areas that flow in a certain direction so this Arrow kind of shows the longest travel path of anything within this wed this is the other wed in the existing conditions that flows out to mon pons okay so this is the proposed Watershed math so this shows that this area here is still flowing sorry offsite but you'll see that that's half an acre and that was an acre and a half so the area that's actually flowing off site is about a third of what it was and again um this is all been peer reviewed by Pat Brennan uh we've had six hearings between here and planning board that have discussed storm water and this hasn't changed this map has not changed the calculations have not changed so um I'm uh there was also concern I guess about General surface water running to the perimeter and kind of the quality of that so we've always shown on our plans um a straw waddle surrounding the entire perimeter of the site on one of the existing conditions for here so this little dash line is a straw waddle surrounding the perimeter of the site in my letter I've committed upgrade that from a 10in St waddle to an 18in mulch sock it's much heavier it kind of sticks to the ground prevents water from flowing underneath it so we'll put that around the perimeter of our site it helps trap it helps slow water it doesn't stop water CU it's still permeable but it will greatly reduce any sediment that may leave the site so we've shown you know again multiple times on this table that's part of our drainage report that is has been peer reviewed multiple times how much we are reducing flow in all directions leaving our site I'll pick one example 25e storm existing conditions 67 cubic feet per second goes down to 32 so we're supposed to match and we have dramatically cut offsite runoff in all directions so I'm not sure I I may have missed some things from the previous Hearing in terms of the concerns here but I tried to address them the best I could okay one question I have is a little on the technical side because you've got a lot of math you got a lot of science there and a lot of people don't really understand it um by you reducing the amount of runoff basically you've taking that runoff isolating it and putting in different areas is that a fair assumption yes okay so the fact that you're raising this five ft as long as you're controlling the storm water on the site in essence you're reducing the amount that's going to go off site correct for so for example in the in the existing conditions this whole area flows offet in the proposed conditions this area that falls on the garage roofs gets collected by uh gutters and down spouts and gets piped underground to this subsurface infiltration area so instead of so the water that was falling from the sky in this area and running directly to the adjacent of but is now being redirected underground farther away from his house okay and you if you have any M King if you have any questions and this is you know one of the we discussed a lot of this at the prior hearing so watched the prior hearing and I'm up to speed and I understand it so I I personally have no questions okay Ed any questions main concern for me is the butters right next door I wonder I'll get that address just is there anybody in the audience who's got a question on yes ma'am go ahead one time Jo and Rosen live just a little question that's for thing that you mentioned how long does that last how many years should I ask yes so it's actually on the specifications that I submitted to it and we're upgrading the straw waddle to a mulch sock the mul shocks I think it lasted I want to say uh 15 months to 20 months something more those l i i can better answer that CU I suggested the the uh 18-in sock only because it's it's higher it has more capacity and has filtering a little bit better than a straw wle straw water was 12 in so my thoughts are if you've got a a storm in the month of uh February and March where we've had some rain and frozen ground you want to make sure that any of that water that hits it has no way to penetrate especially the dired soil it'll go into that sock and it'll retain that sock I've had great experience and I recommended it uh to them so that's temporary W being built correct after that it's the the regular drainage it's a cent Gres so typ that's mostly for sediment control it will control some flow um but it is permeable it's not a dam if you will so uh basically it stays until we can get vegetation established so that the erosion no longer happens but the surface flow relates to this map um and again it's the offside flow is reded I'm going to have to put you up if you're going to be any longer let me repeat some of that okay please so um the mul shock is an upgrade from the straw W it is still permeable it will disintegrate over time the what you need to do is maintain it until vegetation is established where we've disturbed land so that the vegetation prevents any further erosion from occurring so um and again this is all kind of flat land up here it's steep at the edges keep doing that um but again you're not going to get uh it's not like it's a Channel or a river with high velocity flows or anything like that but that's that's that's how it works and and the flow will be dictated kind of by this plan um in the proposed conditions okay thank you any other questions from the audience I yes so I'm not just identify yourself because we have somebody remotely that does the minutes uh liely H um so I'm certainly not criticizing anybody's credentials okay anybody on the board or this man here well but I noticed when the guy that was working on P Mill Road uh I don't know his name but he was talking about vegetations and stuff and he had his engineer with him which Webby is that correct um and it seems to me as though we have a bunch of people here that may know a whole bunch about this stuff but I don't think anybody is an engineer I know you guys are probably going to vote on this tonight and I'm I'm just thinking that maybe this should be presented by the applicants engineer just problem okay okay we'll note that okay um any questions no okay K you followed it um our position here is that if we are we are comfortable with the presentation um we would close the hearing and then we have 21 days to make a decision um so what we could if the board so chooses we can close the hearing and then it would this would remain on the agenda and we would sit down with the review engineer and come up with an order of conditions specific to storm water if there are no other questions uh quick thing about the I'm sorry I'm sorry I did want to address that um Dave I did want to address yes um we did a site walk um we spent some time in that lower corner and the the the homeowners are here um I did get I think one or two emails regarding their situation it's not within 100% of our purview but I would like you to potentially address their concerns okay um just hold on a second Mr pey you did you did send I don't know that I got all the communications but you have been in touch with yes okay did you want to make did you want to address your concerns I mean you could that that's probably the best way so why don't we let Mr PE address his concerns and Mike peasy 254 mon ponet we are the uh direct abuts to this project and it's probably going to affect me and my family more than anybody in this entire town um our driveway ABS that area and I guess I'll start with uh water issues and we've had water issues the water table is extremely high in this area as other neighbors have already said um we've had Springs where my leeching field pushed the water back into my septic system and where does that end up into my home so where's my guarantee that all of this water from this project right next door three story apartment complex with I don't know how many bedrooms um where's the guarantee that that's not going to affect my property okay just I I'll get you I'll get the answer for you was there anything else why you just step back for a second sure uh Dave I think I'm going to let you address that sure so um trying to think of how how high a level to do this at but um so essentially the storm water management standards that were required to meet dictate that you can make surface runoff no worse than it currently is going off of the site and I actually I didn't see you there but I was kind of speaking to you when I talked about currently the Watershed is this big and it all flows to this property line some of it a little bit on the golf course but mostly towards you that's an acre and a half of of land so in our proposed condition there'll be this half an acre of land most of which actually flows towards the golf course up here well the the that property is my property right and that's where it flows shown pictures just let him let him finish what I'm saying is that so this area flows off site once you get to this area that is directly abing your land it's 3 10 7 ft of land only that's flowing towards you it's reduced as much as you could possibly do so in this rain instead of being on the surface flowing to that line of trees settling in those little low spots that are kind of on the common property line it's gets redirected underground into this area so farther away you know from your house also as the chair has been alluding to groundwater in this area goes from west to east and a little bit southerly so you'll see we've done the gazillion test pits here gazillion uh about a dozen and we have probably 20 test pits over on 265 you can tell the ground water slow from that and it starts out in the 69s go to the 68s 66s and goes all the way down to 52 so groundwater wise you are actually flowing towards this surface water wise we're flowing towards you we're dramatically reducing the surface water the ground water where actually again slightly moving that away from you and it's going that way so that's the best I can do in terms of explaining storm water and groundw and impacts on the butters as it relates to the plaza here they're draining towards us on the surface we're draining towards the common property line so we're both going to be draining kind of right towards this line here I think his his question was is there any assurance that the project is not going to flood him and I'm talking about the project I I I saw the pictures of of um the situation he's had it must have been after Heavy Rain um we walked the property so his concern and our concern would be to make sure that nothing from this site especially with a close proximity of the garages is going to go onto their property is that's not what this plan shows it shows that this area here that sliver will drain onto his property so it's not a requirement that nothing can leave the site that's not what the standards say at all it says that you need to make it no worse than it is today and again so so this is again half an acre if you look at so this is pv1 C if you look at the chart here so this is South and West property line so 25e storm existing conditions 67 cubic feet per second is the peak rate of runoff in that direction it'll now be less than half of that so and don't take my word for it and whether it comes from me or jde doesn't make any difference because you had a peer reviewed that's the only person that's speaking for you and Pat Brennan has fully p this both for the planning board and for the Conservation Commission and signed off on every aspect of our design so Mr I don't I guess I don't want to answer this question is there a guarantee there isn't any guarantee gu what he I think what he's saying is that instead of you having an acre that's flooding your property now or potentially flooding your property you got to have 7 feet so from a scientific standpoint and unfortunately we we got to do the the science part of it um I think what he's saying is you're going to have less potential run off from the site than you would now um there were some other issues that that I'm hoping that you can can get together with Mr pey um yeah we've been sorry so we've been in communication about um I've offered a few times some in public forums some in private emails uh to kind of talk about issues right on the perimeter one is what gets cleared so there's a lot of trees that are kind of right along the property line some are in good shape some are in bad shape so I've offered to basically walk the land you know with the Butters and say okay what do you want to have happen here some of the trees are deadish some of the trees might provide some screening you know it's it's a kind of a subjective matter so if for example there's some trees that are slightly on their land that they want us to take down I'm amenable to that we're there we got the tree clear it's not a big deal so I've offered to kind of coordinate that that work um there's also Landscaping that was mandated by the um uh Municipal development agreement that um there's a couple of small things of landscaping that were required as part of that original document and one is planting along that little sliver of land that I showed here so we're required put six aring so again coordinating exactly where those go whether you want something like a pine that's a little beefier that sort of thing again I'm open open to all that in terms of timing I suggested you know walking the tree line a few weeks before the tree clearer actually shows up so the ribbons stay and then it might make most sense to actually wait till this garage is constructed to um determine exactly where the plants go and that sort of thing so I put that in writing to him the chair has been cced on that I presented that in other public hearings Mr P do you have has the uh border of Health approved the um St water and the wetlands and everything border of Health has not it has not any questions the board have this point um Dave as we spoke um I I'm sorry oh where do the uh storm drains empty into I'll let him answer that that's it's um so there's a number of them on the site uh so this thick black line is again kind of a watershed and all the storm drains in in that area go to this subsurface attention there's a couple storm drains here that go into that little place and there's two storm drains that this is this was one of the actual comments that um the commission received um when they solicited for comments um they wanted these catch basins right at the property line and a little firm Downstream of the property line so this area goes to that um sub doing that subsurface detention area it's located right there so these are the kind of the these black lines kind of Define the so this is the entrance to my driveway here yep and my water line is actually right there is that going to affect my water line that the water line that goes into my home no we're we're standing anything else Mr no thank okay um any other comments questions is a one more question go ahead it's true I would like to um ask if this land has been walked by ecosystems or any flaggers to make sure for the town of Halifax that what what Thorndike presented as no Wetlands on this property is actually true okay so I would like an answer I can only tell you that the plans are submitted they are required to notate any wellet um they have indicated let me finish they have indicated that there is no well um have you double checked that if you want me to answer let me answer um I have walked the site another board member there are no Wells okay that answer your question um I don't know about ecosystems or had any I don't know why the conservation board in the town of Halifax wouldn't double check what a corporation is putting front of you when they're going to build up the land this much when we're talking about all these other things why would you not double check for the people that you work for the town of Halifax and I will also state that at a planning board meeting I was told that there was um somebody that walked the property and I would actually say hm okay so I he said that um this man right here thorndike's representative stated at a planning board meeting that it was walked by ecosyst systems and I would like to bring ecosystems up to the mic to answer a question have you ever walked 266 mon Pon straight okay that's true we've indicated there ision no Wetlands ecosystems is not getting up I don't know that ecosystems did any of the work on it I'm going to say it wouldn't have been because there's no wet mons so well Alan I'm sorry but I asked a question because I it was stated and you can't just Stonewall they're here I'm asking have you ever walked 266 Monon Street m t that is an answer that's gerain to the Conservation Commission no under his jurisdiction with conservation okay we're in stor we're in a different cycle of storm water management I don't I think it's inappropriate and I'm not going to be looking for an answer okay any other questions I do have it in writing you'll be receiving okay fine thank you didn't have it okay um Dave again um as I've indicated in the past I I think that this commission should in fact have the last look at the set of plans the fact that the septic has not been approved uh is a little problematic for me um I'm going to defer that to the board if they are comfortable with proceeding with a septic plan that's not been approved and and and it's based on if your plan is approved then we're okay but if your plan is not approved and there's any changes in elevations then those would have to be reviewed by a review engineer so I'll let you address that and I'll bring I'll make two two brief comments so just on kind of procedure um this has been a very lengthy process and uh pretty unique to have so much um let's say plans and plans reviewed done before an actual formal hearing is opened um so I'll make I'll make two points one as part of your RS you're required to notify like four different entities police building inspector and one of them is Board of Health so that was done first week of June and the Board of Health made comments um so that was whatever six weeks ago now no 10 weeks ago now so the Board of Health was asked to give comments they provided comments um and so I'm again kind of questioning why we're waiting for the Board of Health again um also uh it's very appropriate for boards to condition their approval on other things occurring in the future such as the Board of Health issuing their perram so my request is that uh a vote is taken and uh you know with a condition that the board of health issue their sewage disposal per I'm not against his suggestion this board has done it in the past I don't know how Ed and yourself feel about it voting to close the hearing and with the conditions of that are the requirements from the other Bulls are in place and approved before we actually issue and give it to you in hand I think I think what I'll do is we'll we'll take a vote and then we'll discuss that part of it and then we'll we'll finish with that vote so if you want you want take a vote to close the hearing then because of that no let's take a no we if we can't close the hearing if we're going to continue it we can't close it if we close it we're done so I'd be looking for a motion to continue for discussion purposes I'll make a motion to continue 265 and 266 mon ponson Street no 266 make a motion for 266 mon ponet Street to be continued for discussion purposes and for the purposes of other boards okay I'm going to actually just revise your motion you're going to make a motion to continue and then I'll look for a second for discussion only I'll make a motion to continue the hearing for 266 mon P I'll second the motion for discussion for discussion okay I'm just going to give you my opinion again because I mean this is a new one for me storm water management I don't know that you guys have sat on any you know it's a relatively new bylaw this is a very large project I do not like the idea that some someone else one of the other departments is going to have to oversee a decision that we make as part of the conditions that we're going to place on them there's going to be um some oversight in the construction and then there's going to be some oversight in longevity as far as inspection the basins um who do we put the emphasis on do we put at the building inspector uh do we put it on the health agent that's my only concern um so um I'm sorry sir we're in the middle of the vote so um Ed um it's okay let him he can and then we'll just take a vote and then we'll go to the next step so I don't know I like but Kim said earlier if we put orders of conditions attached to it like we've done most projects and okay many projects and hopefully we'll hire a conservation agent and all the further inspections will fall on conservation and not another department unfortunately conservation agent doesn't do so more but anyways okay so we have a we have a motion to continue and a second for discussion purposes so if we're going to close the hearing then I need a vote not to continue so we have a motion in a second um all in favor of continuing the hearing I so that would be me I so it's going to be one two so now that that passed that fails so now I would be looking for a motion to close the hearing on 266 um on Pon Street as far as the storm water somebody want to make that motion or I'll make a motion I'll make I'll make a motion that we close the hearing on uh 266 on 266 on poner Street that's the peach farm we're going to close that hearing regarding storm water management I'll make the motion do I have a second with with conditions okay the process is a little different conservation we have to close the hearing yeah okay and then we have 21 days to make a decision so this is go back on the agenda uh for next week uh we'll have any potential conditions that storm water review he he has agreed to come up with some condition for us we'll take those see if we need to add anything on and then we have 21 days to the issue are approval so this closes the hearing and we go into a um a condition phase I'll make a motion to close the hearing for 266 month p I'll second the motion okay we have a a motion in a second all in favor I okay Dave just show that we're we're going to close that and we have 21 days to issue an order conditions okay want to go to the next one sure I'm to take a quick break do see Dave you done this this okay this was continued no no uh this was continued on the review specialist was here last week they addressed um all of the concerns that the the commission had Miss kingy wer here so if you have any questions I don't I also caught up on this one um 105 Palmer Mill we had given them an hour they're still waiting in they're going to have to wait okay just yeah so I don't have a a real presentation on this we've kind of done it done it in the past but I'm happy to answer uh any questions the commission might have no we continued it and I think we continued it for the same reason is that you didn't have a septic approval so at this point we don't know or maybe you can ched some light on on is the septic system going to be as proposed is there going to be any elevation changes yeah so um we so we had let's say um our biggest uh response to comment a biggest comment of concern uh was addressed today so in this case we have not submitted revised septic plans I also want to note there's a set of plans that detail a septic system and then there's the site plans that have all the storm water information on it so let's put it this way an invert to a tank underground can change without these plans changing um because it just references the Civil plans reference the septic plan so it just wanted to kind of explain that um so on this one uh again I think all the storm water matters have been issued uh the Board of Health has not issued uh their disposal permit yet um on that one we are I'd say a couple weeks behind where 266 is in terms of um formally responding to those comments we got the green light today on the one that I was worried about and then uh uh so we uh we know we know we know how to respond so that was a little muddled but that's that's the status so let me cut cut to the chase on this one I'm fine getting a continuance on this one you kind a request to continue it yeah that that's fine because the Board of Health is less far along okay so in the 266 the plans that uh all sets of plans reflected all the comments from the Board of Health uh so in this case we had not yet uh hit that step so uh we anticipate doing that uh in the next few days okay but uh I'm fine will you provide the office with a written um request for continuance okay um we have a um we have a request for continuance like if there's if there's outstanding issues though from none that I know of but we're not closing the hearing so if we have any additional public input because we've had people that weren't here the first meeting that here now um we can address them then and I think we should address them again my opinion is with a full plan um and I think that gives us a better opportunity um okay so um we have a request for continuance um put a motion that we continue 265 Monon Street you have a second I second okay all in favor I I I 3 z z okay thank thank you we going to take just a quick break and then we're going to go into the uh unfortunately we're going to go into to 111 River Street unless they real fast um Brandon are you guys real fast if not I'm going into my next hearing on on this uh 105 if if it's not a yes or a no then I'm going to go to my 111 need um hold on you have to get that me yeah we got to get the rest of them in the room if not yeah I was just back there Consulting with them about potential Solutions solution okay so are we anywhere or we're going to continue this councelor um we we've got other hearings we're going to take a quick break but if you've got if you've got a solution and it's going to take five minutes then we'll address it otherwise you'll have to wait sir I think we do they don't even have five okay Mr Webby Tim has agreed to do systematic uh inspections of invasive species I think that was the question that was asked we also discussed things with Brandon outside and we're going to be putting we we have about 3,500 square ft of area we have to restore and we're going to plant that with 10 blueberry bushes okay so you're requesting a continu we need a plan for that I would think I mean it's up to the board we would request continu yes okay um just provide us a continuance in writing just so that we don't run over the 21 days um is the board comfortable with that yes any questions yeah very conf with okay good so make a motion for 105 Palmer Mill Road to continue it until do you want September 10th yes September 10th 2024 and Mr Webby would please write to us in writing that you guys requested the continu and then we'll have the plan okay that's fine so we have a motion in a second all in favor I 3 Z thank you thank you very much do you want to take five minutes cuz this next presentation I think is going to be leny yeah okay if you mind we're going to just take just going to take a 5 minute break um you can stick around but I I I did call your son yes and we're still in November uh excuse me the middle middle into September but you can stick around cuz I still have it on the agenda going take minutes 111 River Street continued so I really don't have anything left oh is it continued I don't think realizes that all right well that was that was the first one uh we have everyone under the same time so we can bounce around oh so they might still be on we haven't discussed it yet oh okay because it was the first one on I thought I missed I'll stick around that yeah I take if you go continue he wants to ask you some questions sure [Music] quick new meetings they always been long here you know 10 that's 105 the first that uh 66 266 this one right up top doing that next all right goad no no hey you do and that's the last item oh that's [Music] right I think I met this week it all depends on I don't know it wasn't Frankie Frank's in Florida's that I don't I presume then disseminate yeah okay thank you because he said something about my husband and I didn't get it because Cole was out talking to the real met like on the third page brother was me that's typic him and I was yeah has to be ready for bed this month [Music] went at I don't [Music] have Sunday was a gorgeous day to sleep it was one of the nicest days all weekend I move my boys in he got a sense of oh yeah it is trucks all day not it's in got to be no you can see them at the top on H they're going towards the back to now oh okay see in a minute okay Conservation Commission meeting is back in order our next order of business I'm going to let you read this if you don't mind um is 111 River Street D number SE 171 0584 we're gonna hold on we're going to take a minute she's going to read the meeting um notice sorad sorry notice is hereby given of a public hearing conducted by the Halifax Conservation Commission under the provisions of mgl chapter 131 section 40 the wetlands protection acts in chapter 164 of the town of Halifax Halifax Wetland protection bylaw on Tuesday August 27th 2024 at the Halifax town hall to consider a notice of intent submitted by wetson and Samson of Reading Mass on behalf of applicant Gary El esade of Cumberland Rhode Island attorney and counselor for the owner and Son's limited partnership of Cumberland Rhode Island lot 1C is a portion of the land associated with rtn 4- 28775 and subject to the mass d n the noi submitted is a proposal as the first step in returning the site located at one of the R Street Halifax Mass shown on assesses map 117 lot one into compliance with the mCP copies of the filing are available at the conservation commission's office at the Halifax town hall for per request by email to peggy. Selter Halifax d.org or by calling 78159 3872 okay thank you having read that into the record I'm going to be looking for a motion to open the public hearing for notice of intent on 111 River Street I make a motion to open the hearing for 111 River Street we have a second I'll second it okay all in favor I I3 z um Audi identify yourself for the records if you've got documentation that should have been submitted to the office so I think everybody's gotten some but typically that's what we do then it's part of becomes part of the record but why don't you stop with your presentation and yeah um these are things that have already been submitted it's just photos and figures you like okay if they've been submitted you want to take a look yeah sure it's just a handout for your convenience if you'd like if you if you if not then that's fine um this is the power point he's doing oh expert just left oh oh wait a minute there's a button here but you know I'm not sure how to work it so let me just see is Caesar still here no Caesar left you said press perhaps certifi this is reent is this I don't know that that I don't what folder you keep it in could it be I I be this PC I don't know say what is it it's going to be on one on the on the on the left hand side one because I have no idea I'm the blind leading the blind here but maybe it's one drive Noe maybe it's this VC going it be in one of these click one on see have empty one Conservation Commission 827 [Music] meeting thank you there we go thank you all right um I'm Greg Russo I'm the W scientist at West Samson um here to present our notice of intent for this project um I'm also accompanied by Susan who will also do some speaking uh in the latter half of this presentation so um it's just a aerial of the site um just so that we kind of see what we're talking about here um it's this field here um down below so um down below the solar array and then up the middle in between these two arrays here so it goes completely around the whole Solar frame yes around this one yeah um and we'll see in a in a subsequent figure there's kind of the shape of the subdivided parcel um this is lot one a of um sorry 1 c 1 C yes 1 C my b um this is um kind of the site plan that we're going to be kind of talking a lot about through this it is on one of those pages of the handout if you'd like to sort of follow along um cuz I'm going to move away from this page but I'll come back to it at the end um these purple lines you see are the proposed transects that I'll be discussing um and um we've got our you know extensive resource areas on the site which we'll also discuss in a moment um so the parcel of land it's been the subject of the mass DP um notice a responsibility and a release tracking number um due to the fact that there is potential for unexploded ordinances on the site from historic test firing um an investigation is required by um DP for the site um and as I said this the the site has been subdivided um Lot 1 C is the focus of this discussion today um site contains Wetlands intermittent streams and a perennial stream there's also a good amount of 100-year flood plane on the site um all the resource areas were delineated um and the Halifax Conservation Commission issued an oad back in January of 2023 um and is recorded at the plan of County registry ofs um currently the site is old field in wet Meadow dominated by gold rods and as there's native grasses there are invasives on site in uh such as Reed Canary purple lrip and a bit of frag as well um and as I said much of the site is within a 100-year flood plane the easternmost portion of the site is natural heritage habitat for box turtle um the surveys will be taking place on foot um and have been designed to minimize ground disturbance as much as possible due to the extensive resources on site um the transex that I pointed to earlier um there's going to be 5-ft transex moving in a north south Direction um and those have been laid out based on a statistical model for um you know sufficient coverage for this type of survey or uxo survey um the transects are going to be traversed on foot using a metal detector there will be no vehicles in any of the resource areas um and the vast majority of the site um will not be touched by vehicles or Machinery with the exception of the existing access roads and one small portion of the site which we'll discuss in a minute um the only time any ground will actually be disturbed with a shovel um is when the metal detector indicates something below ground if that is the case um excavation not to exceed 2x twox 3 ft um will take place to remove whatever anomaly was discovered by the uh metal detector um these will be logged daily to keep track of the amount um that has been excavated if it is excavated um so that we do not exceed thresholds going forward um all EX the the the material that is excavated will be retained on site using tarps um and excavations will be backfilled and vegetation replaced immediately once the excavation has been complet and the anomaly has been removed this will this will be same day um in Upland areas only mowing may take place to make traversal of these transex EAS year um as I said we're not going to be using vehicles or equipment so mowing is going to be in the form of you know weed whackers you know kind of brush doog hand hand equipment um now there is one area on the site um which is a former this area down here um also highlighted a little larger down here this is a former depressional area where um um extensive sort of dumping may have occurred in the past this area here is going to have a slightly different survey protocol than the rest of the site um now in this area um the same protocol using metal detectors to find anything underground is going to be uh they're going to do that first um however extra text pit excavation um will take place throughout this former depressional area and that will be done using Machinery um the wetlands in this area are going to be avoided entirely they're not going to be excavated um this is only going to focus on the Upland portions of that um former depression area and the vegetation in the soil is going to be um reserved and replaced as best as possible in the same way as it would throughout the rest of the site um personnel and Equipment are going to access using the existing access roads on the site um basically just moving down the road you know vehicles in equipment will be moved along the road as the teams work their way throughout the site up and down the transects um the vehicles will be staged on the road there are a couple of designated um pestry and entry and exit points that are indicated on the plans um um the roads do the existing roads do fall within buffer zone um however the roads themselves are not they're they're dry they're gravel they're cleared um I actually was by today to look at them and they've recently been mowed so their roads are in very good shape um the vehicles that we're respecting are um about two Personnel support Vehicles which would just be you know likely just be pickup trucks um a track mounted skid steer and track mounted excavator for that depressional area um we expecting minor temporary impacts to um Riverfront area watering vegetated Wetlands Borderland subject to flooding buffer zone and 50ft no disturb Zone however we don't know where excavation is going to take place until a metal detector finds something so we're saying that this is all of these are possible none of them are guaranteed that impacts will occur to these areas um du the nature of these survey protocols like I said a precise area of impact uh can't be known exactly now but based on the history of the site other surveys that have been done uh on similar sites we know the lengths of the transex we know the widths of the transx um we've calculated an estimated area um of proposed impacts that will be less than 5,000 ft and less than 1,000 cubic yards and as I said before we're going to track daily any excavations that take place so that we can make sure to not exceed these numbers if it seems like we are approaching these numbers work will stop um and we'll have to you know go back to drawing board so to speak um and that's just a sort of a table um summarizing the the conservatively calculated um you know estimated temporary impacts for the different resource areas and the different actions that may take place in them um as I said there is a little bit of natural heritage habitat for box turtle um we've been in contact with National Heritage about that um we are subcontracting um a someone to prepare a turtle protection plan for us and who will be on site um to monitor four box turtles um and and to I I presume that they'll also be training you know doing sort of morning you know Turtle Suite discussions with the survey Cruise um and um Susan if you'd like to speak to the rest of the my name is Susan Jason along with brick I also work at West and Samson here to represent the project I am What's called the license sight professional on the project so my role relates to the mass DP regulations and the the ultimate reason why we're proposing this investigation to the commission uh the need for the survey under the mCP regulation so if there are any questions here tonight I can speak more to that um one of the things that we're doing in preparation of the survey we've had up for every meeting uh with members of the commission as well as safety officials here in town we're in progress of developing a safety plan that we will you know make sure that all of the Town officials are in agreement that we've just today submitted it to town officials because the draft was just ready today we had hoped to have it ready and vetted before tonight's meeting but our intent as well as part of this investigation is to address any safety concerns that either the commission the town officials or any any abids or any members of the public have um and we can go into any specific questions that anybody may have in relation to that okay let me see if the if the board has any at this point uh it's until we don't need anything right now right do you need anything I don't have any any any questions okay okay just so that you know for the public to be clear you've got Munitions in the field you need to clean them up um Department of Environmental Protection has sent you the required documents that requires you guys to take them um I think I'm going to hear from our review analyst first see what any comments he has and then I'm going to open it up to the board and then the public um okay yeah I guess one comment would be we the reason that mass DP issued what's called the notice of responsibility so the document that obligates the land owner to conduct this this investigation is based on its affiliation to a Handover cleanup site and the finding of Munitions to the south in the town of midbar so it is true to say that it has a relationship to an active cleanup site and that mass D did do a you know a inspection of land once owned by the same proper owner to the south in the town of Middleboro so specifically on lot 1C which is the focus of our initial investigation we don't know there to be any Munitions however it's under the same responsibility and classification to conduct the investigation so this is an initial assessment for exactly that to see if there is anything and if there is there'll be a responsibility to deal with it so just a slight Nuance on that okay um um I know we're going to have a few more questions if you mind have we just like e ecosystems to address the the notice of intent and some of the concerns that the commission might have I have one question on that one on um I I can wait on this one because the two sites that she has referenced have turned out to be super fund sites so that is extremely concerning to me I grew up near the old gun Factory at Forge Park over there in that whole area near the dump I know the whole mess I know the cancer HS I know how it was Disturbed I'm familiar with the middle girl one so it's extremely concerning to me for Halifax to have to experience that or potentially allow it to be disturbed to have everything done where we have learned from the other two sites the negative impacts that disturbing the sites has caused and I'm not against the cleanup of the minut or anything else but and I and I appreciate that but I am going to have concerns and already thinking is this leading to a super fun site where are we headed next with it because that's what happened with the other two sites okay so let I'm going to let um Brandon from ecosystems just address the notice of intent uh in his comments and thank you Mr chairman uh Brandon fan of ecosystem Solutions uh doing the peer review for the Conservation Commission um I've uh been to the site I did the inrad last year if you remember so I crisscross the site like everywhere um and I went back to the site again last week um to see what the conditions were and I have seen enough and uh taking in enough information and and seen enough data to be able to come up with some uh conclusions and recommendations um I don't have as much history as as as you all do you know being local folks so I I still have a few questions about the nature of all this if you don't mind sure um what is the history and and the the nature of the the test firing here okay if um I'm probably the oldest here um back in World War II um Na this goes to world this goes back to my knowledge World War IO um at Le go back to Atlantic Research was the company that developed Munitions for the military Atlantic Research used that particular site to test those Munitions that's why you've got the bunkers um and that was very extensive um that happened in the' 40s um that area was cleared let me just step back they test fired multiple rounds from what I understand they had projectiles they had steel plates there and then they either charged up the Munitions to see what it would take to go through the steel plate there's been some documentation and some um some common knowledge about that from some of our ancestors so there's no question it was a test site the site was cleared in the80s um there was an order issued by uh um I'm a Corp of Engineers for some illegal clearing in there and I know from past experience that Munitions or something ended up in some of the trees were there and they ended up in fireplaces and wood stoves um some sort of unexpended ammunition I don't know if it was the ammunition or the Bullet what I'm I'm not sure what it was but there was multiple uh accounts of that I kind of knew who the tree cutter was at the time um so Atlantic res shirts used it for multiple years um I would say that there and I have not been on the site but there's thousands and thousands and thousands of rounds out there um based on information that I have from Associates Farmers that have worked the field uh people that have utilized the field for dirt bikes uh hunting and the so so forth so so that's the the is Atlantic Research had it they are now cleaning up Atlantic researchers property over in Hanover which M King was alluding to that ended up was supposed to be a two-e cleanup and I think the state police told me they've been there since 2016 it's quite extensive Mercury um in the pond they haven't even gotten to the Mercury um but they have and they have protocols set up that as these mun iuns are found when and how they're destroyed so that's just a little background thank you for that that's fascinating absolutely fascinating um my next question has to do with the nature of the metal detector so are we talking about the kind of metal detector you see with folks on the beach where they you know they kind of sweeping around or is it something more more uh uh sophisticated than that I guess Mr Russo um yeah okay I'm going you know it's generally the same technology a little more robust and the you know just so everybody's aware we've hired um a uxo technician firm called VR habis who this is exactly what they do they're military trained ordinance Specialists and they are private sector company now after you know Founders retired from long histories in the military so we have brought in intend to bring in specialists in this area they're going to be using state-of-the out equipment they've worked with us to just to develop the actual layout of the transex all of that was done in consultation with uxo Specialists who work in this area as their you know specialty all over the country um so they equipment is state-ofthe-art they've got all of the back history that we all know they you know had some experience looking at the site already they do this work all the time and this is not to say that this is the last time that we'll be out here this is an initial investigation to start the process of understanding what the land condition is which is being required by the state so this is you know we're not we don't know all the answers yet this this is to start understanding what is here and if there is something here to develop a plan to deal with it okay okay I'll right p in the report I heard I I was reading about how um the ordinance Specialists are in high demand basically going to get take it when they can when can they do it so is there there a you know what is the proposed if there re even a proposed timing of the year when they would be out there is there you know they planning to do it any particular time of year or is it just whenever they can get to it we have actually got them lined up if you will um to to hopefully be available to us as soon as we can have permission in place so we have the agreement from the client the landowner we currently have these you know ordinance Specialists tentatively scheduled the only issue is they have many many jobs that are in demand and in the que so our permitting is such that we're not ready for them they may take another you know job before they can come back so generally speaking our intent would be have them out here you know late summer early fall at the earliest pending pending the permits so right away is the intent of the of the investigation obviously you know with our permanent permission in hand thank you for that so so best case scenario we're looking at se mber October okay yeah well if that's the case then the vegetation is still going to be up and uh pretty robust um and I see the transects so you're definitely going to have to weed wag a brush hog because uh the vegetation out there is mostly Meadow vegetation right um and it's pretty thick it's it's pretty thick out there and there's some places with uh like for example in the in the depression area right in here this whole general area in the south central portion of the property is occupied by Den stands of a a plant called Jerusalem artichoke which is a type of sunflower and it's 78t tall so yeah you're going to have to to do some cutting and to to get in there um so just want to let you know but the thing is it's it's herbaceous vegetation you cut it it will come back and if you're doing you know holes to dig I don't think this how many holes are you going to be digging right so if it's I don't know I hate to be inite but let's just say normal amount well you you take the dirt out you put it back and you know next spring it's going to start growing back fine right but if if you find out that this is a I don't want to use the world here but Minefield so to speak uh and and you're doing digging every 5T that that that's a different story but we don't know we don't you're not going to know until you get out there right so I I I still recommend the plan that they're proposing MH I still think that this is all a very good idea especially since it's being mandated by D and it seems like a good idea to to to clear uh property of unexploded ordinance and and all that so in the end I have some recommended motions and uh special conditions uh in my reading of the Halifax Conservation Commission rules and regulations Section 401 A and B uh it's what you have to do to be able to do work within the 50 Foot Zone byw yes which means that the commission will have to issue a variance and uh in my reading of the regulations it's allowable um uh and here's my proposed motion to allow work within uh the bvw and within 50 ft of a bvw to allow the proposed work because work is not expected to have adverse effects on the resource area and to prevent any potential for taking without just compensation that's the the wording in your bylaw um and in order to make things as clear as possible what the procedures and Protocols are for the work they're all laid out in section 3.0 of the uh scope of work uh uh and the project narrative uh in the Weston and Samson report so I recommend just taking that section three right out of their their report and inserting it as a special condition and say follow this protocol it makes it all very clear um and any changes of the to the scope of work however minor is the thing is we don't know exactly what we're going to find so they may be adjustments that need to be made so any uh changes to the scope of work however minor must be approved by the Conservation Commission before implementation right and I made another uh recommendation that the work occur outside of the spring uh nesting season because there there's a lot of wildlife that uses Meadow habitat for uh Springtime nesting uh from April 15 to June 15 that's it okay um just before you get down anybody get any questions vco systems at this point for stage one no no it needs to be done it's to be done anybody question just you mentioned if there needs to be an adjustment to the scope of work so we agree that we don't know exactly what we're going to find hopefully not much but if we do that's the intent of this investigation there may be a need to adjust for example a transect slightly in the field or you know to what degree is an adjustment of the scope and in what Manner would we need to communicate with the commission is that something that we could do dynamically based on the need in the field because we want to be able to complete the investigation with the acknowledgement that you know there may be some changes or some unexpect expected conditions okay let's just hold on one second let me just I want to make sure that the board has no questions for for ecosystems on his report I have no questions for Brandon okay well done excellent as always okay um they do bring out a good point though of unexpected or emergency in this situation so without a agent they wouldn't be you able just to adjust in the field so who would that fall fall on or could they do an aftermath noi or updates um I I I agree with 90% of what what Brandon said um I I think time is of the essence absolutely as far as the Project's concerned um hopefully we will have an agent um I have been filling in for that particular person but I think we need to really need to discuss um not necessarily how it's going to be done but some of the procedures um like the something they find here's the protocol yeah I mean if you find something I I personally don't see a problem as long as we've got um some environmental monitoring is probably the simplest way um you make the decision all right and you come back to the board if we need to make some adjustments at some point but the stop in the middle of the process doesn't make S really sense to me that's what I'm referring to it's going to be very difficult for us to come back yeah I think I think we understand that and and I think that that Brandon's position is well taken under normal circumstances if there's an issue you come back and see us and go from there um I know you're going to find a lot of clay you're going to find a lot of Munitions um do we want to prolong the process especially when you got the the notice of non-compliance um you know D is is you could potentially commit and say it was let them do whatever fully utilize our subcontractor while they're in place the experts will be here on the ground and we want them to have the flexibility to be as you know proactive as possible while we have them okay and and I think he's just he's doing his job um so yeah the good suggestion is we have some kind of representation there yes most um yes uh hopefully just so that you both know that the the was awesome candidates for the health agent excuse me for the uh conservation agent so potentially by the time this project goes forward we'll have someone to monitor or we'll have um professionals like ecosystems come up with a schedule for monitoring um any questions from the public go ahead Chris Chris onews 129 circuit Street uh this has to do it's like something uh M King mentioned all disturbing the soil for years they dumped the sewage cake uh 18 Wheels all day here and all over these fields which you can do very little research and find out all the New England states having in trouble with that now with P fast chemicals all coming out uh from my understanding it was done incorrectly a basketball size it would take a year to break down all over those fields uh I know the D issued that this Asik here that they were afraid for the safety of workers at the solar panels uh was disturbing all this stuff go re-release the stuff into all the tributaries and into the wed okay Chris if if I can address that the I'm a little familiar um I it wasn't particularly in that area that they were dumping that uh that material that area to my knowledge that that's been farmed after they made that major uh the servant in 1980 it was farmed it was hay um those bunkers contained manure from the old Cumberlands farm farm in Bridgewater uh and they dumped manure there for years um I'm familiar with what you're talking about I thought it was a little further let me see North little further south but having said that um it's the responsibility of the LSP whoever's on site if they do encounter something unusual they're looking for mins but if they do encounter something unusual they'll have to note that and address it because when all said and done some LS p is going to have to sign off that this site um meets the requirements that D set yeah I can speak also to um I am familiar with the arsonic situation that you mentioned and there was an investigation there was a detection of arsenic it was near here near lot 1A um that is in the DP record that is part of this same process that we're going through now under the What's called the Massachusetts contingency plan regulations it was investigated and closed so that did have to also follow the same steps for identification investigation of soil and groundwater understanding of hydraulics nearby Chemical Testing and risk what we call risk characterization so that was um evaluated and closed if you will but knowing that as LSP for the rest of the site that that's a piece of information that we absolutely know and is part of our over all understanding of the land and arsenic is a potential contaminant of concern that we'll be looking at um and to that point depending on what we do find in in this proposed investigation we may also be doing soil and groundwater testing right now we don't know exactly where that would be it would be you know essentially within the limits of Lot 1 c um and that's a question for the commission as well as how we handle that going forward in terms of the notice of intent is that an element that we could potentially address now or would we need to come back to the commission after conducting this assessment you we if possible we like to dub tail that analytical testing as quickly as possible with any finding in the field but again because we don't have any findings yet we can't tell you exactly where we might propose to do that so it's it's a situation K I am personally not against them testing as they go without coming back before the board but I also and you served on the board of health Allen so you may know the answer to my question is some of them we may have Crossover with the Board of Health and I don't know what the Board of Health procedures or recommendations to you would be and I don't want to make a decision myself or as a board thinking that it's okay that we've just trumped the Board of Health or any other department maybe I can answer that um they have certain report reporting requirements so if they do find traces of Asic that exceed the normal levels they're going to notify there's a whole chain that they notify there's no action that the board of health is going to take um regarding that you're required under your your either the N or the mCP a public notification to the regulations that we're complying with they're required to notify everybody and there's no I mean this is not a situation where it's a it's a there's no sanitation code violations there's nothing other than them reporting it to them yeah to speak to your specific question there in my experience of being in LSP for many many years in many many communities there isn't a Board of Health approval process for us to install monitoring Wells for the purpose of inves a okay if we test and have a finding for example an arsic finding then there are public notification requirements that we have to comply with to notify when we go to do reporting on that the chief Municipal officer of the Board of Health and other entities within the town you know and and potentially the public if anyone has asked us for specific information and any of the information we collect under this process ultimately becomes publicly available it's available any time anybody wants to ask for it but there are certain reporting Milestones that we have to comply with under the state regulation and the way that M that information is packaged in certain standardized reports and we actually submit it to mass DP which is on an electronic publicly accessible format and there's also an aspect where any member of the public can approach the town and ask for paper copies if if need be so information is is publicly available and and that's part of the process that we have to comply with okay I'm I'm going to kind of cut to the chase here um does any of the commission members feel uncomfortable um with the fact that they're going to have to go in MO hand dig um I I don't I don't see I don't see an issue with that I'm okay with the test Wells too and have them going along I i' move it along yeah I I I think that the you know you'll have to amend your request to include the test Wells yeah we can do that and even if the commission wanted you know a condition that we we may be able to communicate to you in advance of installations those aren't done immediately those would be done you know essentially with the same type of equipment that we're proposing under this order uh this notice of the tent ideally to get in order which would be a track mounted similar size to an excavator probably even smaller so no difference in the equipment or the level of disturbance it's just that the locations I can't you know know right at this moment we don't I don't think we expect that um and I don't think that we're going to try to regulate how you're going to go in and clean the place you got a mess you need to clean it up if you got a cut vegetation um I'm assuming and we are going to be looking for environmental monitoring is if you cut some vegetation you're going to place that over the your excavation that's the simplest way um is the board I think the board's got copies of some of the memorandums that's gone out I did have a meeting with Public Safety officials and the state police bomb squad um Sergeant a few weeks ago uh was Jason and um we've come at least as personal people at Town level um we're going to be looking for a couple of things one we're going to be looking for again the environmental monitoring um and we are going to be looking for a plan um how this stuff where this stuff is going to be stored um we need to plan if you're going to go in and you're going to map out and take all these transects and you're going to Mark six of them in a day when are you going to excavate uh it's been it's clear to me and from the individuals that that run the town that we're going to want Personnel available when you're going to be doing the excavation U we have a small small town we have three fir mon on during the day two to three police officers um so the general consensus was um and especially from the sergeant that has been spent the last few years at the Handover site um how are you going to dig them when you're going to dig them um and Personnel on site especially safety personnel that will be there if there's an issue issue then they can either handle that right away or call to make sure that you've got personnel there um and the other thing is and we discussed this was if and I did see a little bit of that new report but I come in at 4:30 um that you are plan on having some sort of a structure there to put in some of the ammunition or whatever you're finding um if you do find any unexpended okay we want we want protocols we want to know if you find it we want to know if you're going to blow it up we want to plan so that you got a reverse 91 to all your direct the Butters and if you're going to blow it up uh and you've indicated in your report that you wanted to do sirines um sirines are fine but I think are reverse 911 indicating that at noon time on Thursday um you know could potentially be some explosions uh um and then you're going to do your your horn blast obviously um that's I the only thing that I know that that we at the Town level and I had some Communications again today with the the fire chief and I do understand we we provided a draft plan today you know my intent was to have it out and vetted if you will with with folks in the town before tonight I we just weren't able to get that together so we certainly agree that we need to work through that safety plan and make sure both the commission and the fire and the police departments are in agreement with it and U just let her finish you are you finished okay I am yeah so so I don't know if that's a topic for tonight's meeting or you know what we would ask is to potentially do that during you know after we close the hearing but before we conduct any work on the site come to an agreement no that that'll be done prior but miss King had a question oh I just had a statement I was just reading um Allen's notes from meeting with everybody and just that um Middleboro per the state police and other things too where it's right on that mine that middleb is also notified too sure yeah that's fine okay I have notified pursuant to the the request so they on and I will forward to them or I'll have the administrative assistant forward to the Middleboro uh everything you've you provided was of if it ends up you're going in the middle borrow and that's the ball of wax well again right now we're only talking about lot one correct that's that's correct so we completely agree that that's reasonable that they be part of the dialogue you know from a notification standpoint but you know right now we're focused on this one land parcel it is absolutely true to say that all of the land that was once owned by national fireworks that is owned by our clients is regulated and is under the same classification so we're not saying this is the only place we're looking it's just that this is the first 111 Acres I think that we're talking about starting on um and it you know and it it doesn't include land in middleb at the moment um I did also I notified just back want to go back up identify yourself please uh Gregory so again um I did notify middle buau of Butters of of this hearing as well as you know when we said it all the butter notifications I did the middle B ones as well that did Comm in I didn't see very many of the there were not many no okay all right um um I think it's because of the there's a lot of open land here so within within the 100 or 300 ft whichever it was of this order there were not that many Middleboro Butters but the list that I got from Middleboro I did notify so I I think that makes it a little easier for you on the reverse 911 and um this show was the blast I mean somewhere I did read it read it quickly I think you part of the process you were talking about taking it off site that's beyond us I I can't see you're taking anything off site but that's beyond our control um anything you find is going to have to be expended on site yeah again that's you know I can't even it's our Specialists who are Munitions Specialists who make those determinations I I agree that the intent at this point is not to take anything off site um there may be debris that is non Munitions related or what's non-energetic I think that's maybe what you're referring to if it's debris we may for example find an old piece of metal that's an anomaly on the on the metal detector we remove it but if they they observe it they inspect it determine it to be non- Munitions that debris would eventually be disposed offsite so there's categories of materials that may be found that may be Munitions and non-energetic may be metal but non- Munitions and may be Munitions and energetic those are the determinations that we're going to be looking to them to to make okay but your plan prior to any digging should be this is how we're going to do that I mean I think I asked about the roadway if the roadway is sufficient to come in and we can get emergency vehicles in and out then then I'm okay with that um as far as whatever you find for Metals obviously you're not going to bury it so that's going to have to be contained in a unit one of the major issues with the place is you got a wide open area that's subject to kids on bikes there's Hunters you're going to see some somebody's going to see some activity and want to know what's over there so we had discussed potentially if you're going to store anything on site whether it be debris or any live ammunition or any expended whatever it is that it's going to be in a contained area fenced in area potentially lightam actually brings a mobile what I'll call a safe on Wheels I don't actually know the appropriate terminology for it but it's a containment mobile vehicle that's intended to store potentially you know energetic material is the terminology that they use so they will have a storage facility with them that is mobile and we'll Define a place with agreement of safety personnel where that will be staged okay you know I think staging is as long as is potentially some we can get there if there's an accident would be some fire Personnel but we addressed if you're going to have that unit that's that's fine that that would be possibly fenced in with some lights um and it's important for the town I mean a get the people notified if you're going to do any blasting blasting is probably going to be limited to you know a certain time so people can expect if there is if you don't have a lot of azs that makes it a little easier I think on the reverse 911 um horn blast is probably not going to make a difference but I I agree a horn blast um one hour whatever you I'm not sure I'm not 100% sure what Handover does but I know they blast I don't know if it's 15 minutes later you know they blast the horn and then they do the uh uh the Munitions so that plan I haven't seen and I think I don't think um having spoken with all my Public Safety people we need to know if you're going to do it on one day then if you want to keep it into one day then you only need Personnel in environmental monitoring that particular day uh maybe the environmental monitor would just say okay if you're going to go out Wednesdays and you're going to start digging you know that maybe I'll come by Wednesday afternoons or Thursday that's something you can you can work on yeah and certainly we can work out those details but just the diff the distinction is on transect areas as the Personnel are walking and observing and testing if an anomaly is identified by a metal detector they will investigate it at that time and the metal detector has you know a a potentially three foot depth and and you know so they will let's just say find an anomaly investigate that anomaly they will make a determination whether that is a piece of metal that's non Munitions maybe you know a piece of old car part they will look at it and say it is a it is a munition and they will make a determination whether it is safe to move or unsafe to move energetic or non-energetic so the intent is to essentially on the transect areas make that determination as they go and there's a couple reasons for that it's it's you know to deal with it right then and there it's it's more to go back we don't want to Mark locations that there are potential anomalies which bring attention to a location that has not been investigated so we want to use the Specialists to do what they do and this is this is what they do on these investigations when we get to the depression area they're going to use that same approach with metal detectors and cover the entire surface area of that 100% so they may or may not find an anomaly if they find an anomaly they'll use that same approach to do a hand di but just because of the mCP regulations and in our our what we're trying to accomplish for the investigation because there's a slightly more you know concern of what was this depression what went on here we have an obligation to understand the vertical and horizontal extent of any potential impacts from a chemical standpoint so because of that we proposed in in the filing the potential for deeper test pits because we may use a metal detector for three feet but that doesn't answer the question for me as LSP if there has been burying here that's not going to tell me the answer so we will do that same approach initially and then we will do a number of test pits how many if we have nothing then we'll do one and you know we'll do some if we start to find a lot of findings that's a different situation we may even have to stand down and go back this investigation is not intended to be a full remediation or a full you know removal action it's the initial step to understand what might be there how much is there what is the it there what type of handing does it require so you know some of it is not known at the moment but that's why we have to be dynamic we may have to you know shift gears and and take if we find a lot we may step away stock work come back with a different plan which is more along the lines of a remediation not only for many reasons because that's not what we proposed in this permit application that's not what we've hired the subcontractor to do at the moment that's not what we've got permission for Mass D to do so if it's a remedial action it's a it's a separate e so that's that's the difference here so so in my little opinion with someone monitoring it you can make those decisions and they can always get back to the commission I mean we don't want to say you can only dig 3 ft or 5 ft wide that's your call um but if we have someone there on the ground then the commission is going to be well aware of what's going on without waiting for a report 2 or 3 weeks later so that's that's why the environmental monitor I think is important to us okay and that's you know just so the commission understands we will have staff addition to the subcontractor you know our role is going to be exactly that LSP representative including identifying you know what's being found locating it by GPS you know reporting back on you know is this a location that we should also take a soil sample for one reason or another so there's not going to be a scenario where those contractors on the site without any oversight if you will um in the natural heritage area at minimum we will likely also have to be doing Turtle monitoring in in relation to their regulations so there'll be an element there so we do understand that you know there's some requirements but we also have to take into account that there'll be a safety plan that we will be essentially anyone working on the site will be under the training and purview of the uxo technician experts and you know us as lay persons entering the site and you know escorting along with them we need to follow the protocols that are developed because the presumption is there may be a finding so in general the less people that are on the site is what their protocol says that only absolutely necessary Personnel should be on a site during one of these investigations that's their your number one safety approach so we need to work all of that out because we have to dtail the regulatory requirements and permitting with the uxo safety aspects of this particular investigation so your plan is to to take your transect area mark it dig it as soon as you find something dig it yep and for also because if there is significant findings trans set number one finding finding finding finding that's a different situation than an occasional finding over 111 Acres so we need to have that knowledge to essentially make sure our approach is correct make sure that the safety Protocols are correct make sure that we have the right budget in place so and and for 111 acres to be traversed once marked and traversed and it it's just not feasible and it's not in keeping with the way that they normally approach these investigations and I and I assume it's safe to assume that V has the professional and the knowledge and the experience with EMS the public safety offices they do and they're certainly willing to work with whatever local requirements but they are routinely operating in remote areas where those types of services are not available to them they are train train to deal with those situations they have they work under their own very strict health and safety plan their normal protocol is to be able to extract their own Personnel to A muster point where safety personnel can get to them if need be so I would think that that's outside of conservation's scope but if that's how they operate I would personally recommend reaching out to the police department and the fire chief and making sure that's okay what they are here are their trainings here is what they do um so they're comfortable that their Town's being taken care of too because still the liability still falls on on the town and we do want to make sure I mean it's not anything small absolutely that firsthand experience here on being over Street and hon so it it really needs to be done and the safety aspect is huge but the safety aspect do feels out of the scope of conservation but I would feel more comfortable having V are speak with our Public Safety offices have an allen involved that way everybody is on the same page and comfortable to go for well I agree with you completely so that's why we had an initial meeting to be honest Alan was present fire chief police chief um the sergeant from the bomb squad and VR Havas was actually present they're from Tennessee but they were present remotely so our initial dialogue to to bring that we didn't you know get all the answers but we certainly heard the concerns involved their convers you know they were involved in that conversation they gave initial feedback and they've been part of the dialogue the whole time um so from their perspective they you know they do this work all the time and don't have safety professionals you know on on stand by with them they're normally working in a protocol under you know DOD Reg regulations and everything that applies to their industry where they are using safety approaches including a Twan working system the ability to have a vehicle to extract themselves using radios they have protocols in place so that when they're doing an assessment if there is a situation that needs you know that needs medical attention they can get themselves out to a location where they can call 911 from a know muster point so that's that's the the intent here also because they are the trained professionals they have to be concerned about the liability of anybody else who's on the site as well as the landowner so their General approach is to have as few people as possible and essentially they're taking their own liability but this is what they're trained to do this is their specialty so it it it sounds to me that one of your issues is whether or not you you want to have someone on site when you're digging uh as far as the public safety aspect um we had an individual that has spent many years in h and the protocols that they've used they use both police and fire the whole time I don't think in Halifax that we're going we're going to need the police um but your plan is we going to have to include some sort of a plan in the event that someone is goods and that and if you decide you want to dig every day then you might need a fire in there every day if you decide you only want to dig on Thursdays or Fridays then those are the days we need public safety personnel they don't like to again make the differentiation that in that site it's already gone past the stage of assessment if you will and it's into a very known and distinct remediation phase so there's a difference there where they know that there's significant materials if we do an initial assessment find significant materials that's not what we're proposing to do at this time this is not a remedial effort I think what the town of Halifax is trying to avoid is the fact that the original protocols in Hanover didn't include a lot of town officials and others and after the site closed and some things were up and running and walking trails there was still live ammunition out there someone walked on it there was a major accident and and Halifax and not being at the meeting and other things and I'm not trying to speak for Allan are trying to avoid the mistakes of other municipalities because we now have the experience and we now have the knowledge like there's I don't think there's any leeway for you to say we don't want Halifax fire present when we're digging I'm not saying that I'm we 100% understand your professionals have these things but we're adding additional Pro protocols and safety to it and I'm not disagreeing it's just you know I'm just keeping in mind this is 111 Acres of primarily Wetland resource area and there's you know access roads but they're going to be remotely walking large distances so we have to work out where what that looks like you know where would the safety Vehicles be what is the chain of communication so I'm not disagreeing but it it's not as simple as a fire truck is is near where they're working at each aspect of these transacts but that might not be the case I mean I don't I don't know that I'd want to have a fireman you know 25 ft when you're trying to dig up an unexpended um ammunition so but the point is that we're asking for a protocol we we want to make sure that hey there's an issue we're not going to put a fir truck down there but we can get a brush breaker room with some water we can get a a small an ambulance in there or we can get a cotton there to take someone out um this is the important part um and we're going to put that back on you um I I we've spent a lot of time on this um we've had conversations with our Public Safety people we need a plan and the environmental monitoring you know um I guess will'll have to sit down with the professionals and decide just exactly what you what do you want to see I mean do you want to we'll give you the okay to do so much but if you run into a problem you don't need you need to refile whereas that environmental monitor could say look at okay let's do what you need to do and I'll notify the commission we don't want you back every 3 months trying to file I think it's clear to me you got a mess out there just so much of a mess it's a big mess I mean you got years and years of unexpended ammunition so are you going to be out there for 3 weeks no you're going to be out there for a while but we we need to be protected I have a question for Brandon for the environmental monitoring what would you recommend um once a week once a day every other week it all depends on what what you end up finding right and how intense how in Environmental mon tring to understand the level of disturbance in the resource areas yeah in regards to Welling protection act and the the Halifax protection bylaw it all revolves around the we resource areas right so if you're going to be doing uh digging in in the BBW and this this train SS go through quite a bit of BBW so that's absolutely a possibility um if you don't find anything in the BBW then I I suppose it's not as necessary but we have no idea so we do it the place is full it's bad it's bad I mean the farmers that have tilled the field for the hay it's bad I mean I'm I'm going to assume the biosolids I mean we know this of yeah so much it's loaded I I don't know that then it's your level of comfort it's your it's Theiss non uxo sites I could throw it an example where we've you know been in situations where environmental monitors have been hired by let's just say do agency work or you know any number of projects um and there can be a daily dialogue here's what we're finding here is what we're not with incorporating a weekly inspection or by you know every other day inspection so I think if we could leave that Dynamic and whomever that environmental monitor is we can certainly have ongoing dialogue I envisioned a component of the plan would likely be to provide the main contact for the town which I assume might be the fire chief or the police chief a daily report here's what we're finding here's what we're not you know that again is going to be worked out but I don't that same type of approach could be done for environmental monitoring where we're reporting every day we dug up nothing we found nothing or we found 10 things or you know we we ourselves need to monitor that we need monor our permit approval I need to be able to communicate with mass D I need to know that we're complying with the contract that we've got for subcontractors so it is going to be dynamic so I think if we could identify that environmental Monitor dividual and develop a you know a dynamic plan I that's I would think that's going to be ecosystems I mean they're on board so I think that that a plan established by the the two of yours okay and the police chief and the fire chief do not want daily reports I mean that should be coming back to the conservation office um well I just assume that maybe something they wanted the safety plan well as ours is the safety plan somebody gets hurt how do we get them out to a hospital very quickly that's the safety plan you know and in this town if there's a a medical issue Polie respond you can't get two vehicles down that road uh again we got three officers on during the day if there's an incident we don't know how to get someone in there so that's what we need to establish as far as the monitoring it it's not cut and dry because you're not digging three holes a day you might be digging but that's something that you could deal with ecosystems through us and come up with a plan as far as the monitoring part so i' be we need so but it's the safety part to me that's going to be the biggest and then let me just address Chris and then uh go to you just one last question I just keep hearing the digging and stuff to look for stuff first but what triggers like the soil sampling before you're doing all this dirt disturbance so nothing leaves like to the winter toxic the Waterway but because the bio solids uh it says adx HP hbx lead aai was all tested out there um you know concerns CH yeah those that's that's up to the LSP to make question and that is part of what we have to do once the site becomes regulated under the mass D program it gets what's called an rtn so that's just a generic tracking number but essentially once you see that that's been assigned that's a you know a mandatory process and there's no way to close a site unless there's also soil and groundwater testing so this is the initial phase and the intent is an obvious one let's make sure there are no Munitions or clear areas so that we can go back and safely collect soil and groundwater samples so that's part of what this you know investigation will require it's this is the initial step and that's why I mentioned to the commission we most likely will have to go back and do groundwater monitoring walls but we purposely Target those if we find an area concerned Munitions it's a potential source of chemical you know contaminant as well that's where I'd like to go back and put a monitoring well so I can't tell the commission today where that is we want to do this first but that will be part of what we do at you know to close the site Chris would it be helpful if we asked for them to send everything they need to follow even if it's just an online Link that we can get information I can share with the public that what I'm just concerned nothing leaves the site on I know that but the regulations the procedure take any soil away or anything of that nature and and let's just say we did find something soil of such contaminate levels that we recommend it should be remediated at this time that also requires certain plants that have to be submitted to me certain amount of testing of that soil material itself before I can send it anywhere so there are protocols in place to make sure that what anything that's leaving the site has been properly assessed and going to the right disposal end point and it would not be part of this filing no it's not part of this it's not part because we don't know what we're yet this filing is strictly to investigate anything they find to remediate um and go ahead M education anything you can provide to the public whether and I'm not going to tell you how to do it how you usually sure social media through the town I don't know what we have to do to post it to our websites and things I think would be extremely beneficial okay and I don't want to see the residents go oh my God an investigation and then have some gigantic Fair based thing like I'd like to do my best to avoid that too absolutely and that and that's frankly the intent of a component of the regulations we're working under is is public Outreach and acknowledgement um so any of the public even who's here tonight if they want to provide their name and phone number we can be as as simple as that any information that's requested directly it can get more formal from there and certainly we can absolutely tell the public that any documentation that we produce is ultimately public information it's not immediately on the website but if somebody asks me for information I can provide it quickly but every for example you know 6 months or a year and if we find something significant we may be under a much tighter timeline because it becomes a different category we may have to submit a 60-day plan and 180 day plan so there'll be a lot of documentation that we have to put together related to all of this at any point in time I absolutely agree that the more information that we share and the more everybody feels comfortable and aware it helps us do our job because we can advance the study and do what it's intending to do make sure that the land is safe so anything along that line we're we're absolutely happy to communicate with the public it it is getting late so um again I think we've made we're going to have to continue this I don't think you're totally prepared uh just to go over you are going to need a variance request to work within the 50 um you going have to make a decision can um nois be amended or they have to file a new one for their their digging investigation I don't I don't I believe they can be amended we have amended them in the past you have okay um what under what circumstances would they would they have to amend the order conditions excuse me you just to include sampling we have that in you you know we said you know okay you had mentioned something about the only thing I don't have monitoring wealth so potential monitoring we look at monitor Wells we can include that in the order conditions yeah we can include that in the order conditions okay that's that's not a big deal put know an order line item for that even if it's to provide a figure or riew of where we intend to place them later but where you going to put them is relevant at this point and you got to make that field decision so um you're looking for permission to go in and dig which we're inclined to to agree with that you need to do that um we're just going to be hung up on um the monitoring and that can I think that can be worked out between the entities bring it back to the commission and say okay this is what we've come up with um but a butter notification reverse 911 and the horn blast in in the public safety part you uh I don't know that that plan that you sent tonight covers all of that um okay that's section 3.0 is that what you're talking about that I was mentioning Mr J uh there's something that came through so so I would I'm and tell me if I'm wrong we agree that a safety plan has to be developed and agree to by town Safety officials corre and we intend to do that and we you know intend to further our dialogue they just received today a draft Plan and there's additional dialogue and potentially more information to be provided but is that a separate issue from the W land issue includes in the hearing can we take that as an item to be you know finalized prior to start of work as well as working out a mon an environmental monitoring uh it would be my personal opinion that safety doesn't fall under conservation we're not the fire department we're not the police department and we're not Public Safety okay our jobs the wetlands protection and I I'm going to disagree only because we spent some time with in research on this and I think experience um from the Handover issue I just happened to be in a neighborhood and one of them things went off I had no idea so I have followed the process um and um and I can tell you that Public Safety is heavily involved in here heavily they know but with the point is this board is not Public Safety okay that I agree but I think that we can we can include and and I think we're going to be required to I didn't see Handover did as far as when they went in front of their Conservation Commission but I think that we should close the hearing and allow to like we did prior with the conditions of making sure that they have the safety plan in order that they have everything done because they have experts ready to come in and we don't want them to miss their timeline and I certainly don't want the be wide Halifax conservation not act on this ASAP yeah also with the order is a condition that we started out early on with ecosystems mentioned a few things I think that should be part of the notice of intent like don't do it in the spring because things are gr everything else the the ones you mentioned three or four things and you already know about the turtle plan cuz that're already working on yeah the the turtle plan is kind of the turtles usually come out in the spring that turtle that doesn't you know but they can do whatever they want they do but but they they they October 15 it's the end of something yeah like the middle to the end of October is is when the the sil fence you know what we call the pay protection barrier isn't as necessary but the thing is is if you don't do a turtle sweep before that time you may not find them because they're hidden somewhere you know the hibernating because our intent is to hopefully get out before October 15 conceptually or there abouts right we understand that that's part of our requirement right so commissioner King makes a point here is if you don't start acting soon they might miss their Turtle window and then they would have to wait until next May or June it's fine as I'm con yeah right between October and and may we have and then witer I do believe that the just okay the response that we got back from natural heritage had I believe it did have a date range that they were requiring the Monitor and I believe it was like April to November or maybe oober so they did give us range in which they wanted us to do the monitoring so to me that means that if work is delayed until late November or then we can do the work without the monitor because the turtles are not active but you don't well have you gotten your your letter from from natural heritage have you gotten your your letter of no take with conditions so it's a no take with conditions and the conditions are what were the what were the conditions I don't remember them off hand but this is where I'm referring Turtle plan and turtle monitoring and I believe the date end point was October 15th but regardless whatever the dates are and requirements are Our intention is to comply with so I'm I'm pretty familiar with box protection plans and involves uh putting up a during the growing season putting up a Total Protection barrier I I don't know how applicable it would be in this situation though this situ yeah they were a little bit it was a little different cuz they understood the trans approach so they were looking for monitoring proceeding any mowing or any active removal or anything like that so I think I know I I know what they're saying basically you have to do a turtle sweep so in the zone sweep in the zone where you're going to be doing your your 5ot swath M you need to have someone who is pre-qualified by natural Heritage to do such sweeps for box turtles specifically that knows how what they look like and how to look for them to go in there and sweep the area before it gets M down so you don't hurt any potential Turtles exactly that is case we need to have that individual escorted by our uxo self-c consultant so those plans are being developed because can we just some way give them permission to do the Char not I think we're um well I don't know that you need permission to do the hold on we got too many conversations here so Okay who wants to talk go ahead I only I was asking Brandon if he was already pre-qualified to do the turtle sweeps and things he is not because that would have that would have worked well it's one of the great disappointments of my profession yeah Turtle sweeps I I have a degree in wildlife biology from UMass and I never got it because you have to uh be someone else's Protege who who was already and I never had that yeah anding Brian mad at L who's a wildlife biologist I know Brian is you know I think well known are so we're at a point um because we already had one midnight meeting we not we're not having another one um we're at a point where I think the commission is in agreement that um it's going to be okay for you to do what you're going to do one of the biggest things is the safety plan so I don't have a problem if the commission uh wants to to close the hearing and issue some order conditions but Public Safety plan I've you know I had Communications with fire today I've spoken to the Town Administrator okay he wants to have a meeting to review your plan but obviously we don't have it how soon are you going to get a plan based on what we've asked you to do um I think you have some of it but what I think I will do is take what you received today was a you know truncated health and safety plan if you will from VR hav from me via them but because I think I know exactly what you're asking for I'll prepare a separate memorandum or you know additional uh submit to the commission that can be distributed to all the safety heads in addition to what you received today so we can have that out to you probably within a week you know certainly within a quick time I will send your report out another meeting if if that's what everybody would like to do to go over the draft um okay yeah I will send what you sent me today once I review it completely to the both police and fire in the Town Administrator and I will send it to Middleboro but um okay I think the board's inclined the commission's inclined can it be sent can it be can all the information be sent to the other board members too since we've discussed it such a length uh yeah all the information has usually what I would I can't re you can't do the reply all so anything that I've received and I think you've gotten it is I sent it to Kathy and have her forwarded excuse me Peggy and have her uh forward it to you guys just so that you have it well prior to the meeting so so I guess what I'm looking for if the board's well any questions from the audience seeing none is the board ready to to make a decision on closing the hearing to issue order conditions I put a motion to close the hearing I second okay all in favor of closing the hearing on 111 River Street I I okay the hearing is closed um we will put this back on the agenda um we'll we have a partial list of uh conditions I think he can you can tweak that uh the public safety aspect is going to be part of it so the sooner you get it the better we'll have it on the agenda for the next meeting and the board will review it and ratify it um and then we'll issue orders accordingly um apprciate all I can say is the sooner the sooner you get it in then the quicker will be prepared at the next meeting um to sign off on that and issue those orders and I would certainly have another meeting off you know separate meeting with safety heads I I will have but I need that full report I mean these guys don't want to read six pages of how you're going to do it that's why I asked you for that I mean your original report was 94 pages right whatever it was close to 100 and then I asked you you know to to narrow it down and then you you answered some of the questions that were in there and that's what I brought to the oh the was yes yeah yeah that's yes 90 Pages what you received today was not 100 but it was still probably 12 pages so I I think I can provide you with a more concise very specific document that's not as lengthy that provides exactly what safety heads will need to to have at least advanc the dialogue and hopefully come to an agreement on how we approach the work but we've got to recognize too they have f federal state and municipality laws so we do appreciate the indepth of it it's just new to everybody in and to be honest what I submitted today was a truncated version of even what I submitted because we tried to mine out a lot of the federal do aspects of the work that are mandatory but maybe don't need to be the topic of the discussion so to I appreciate your comments there is a lot that we are trying to comply with all at one time as long as you can make us happy we will try Okay hearing is closed we're we're going to put it on the agenda we do feel we're hopefully all on the same page because we feel this is a very important investigation for everybody involved so okay we' like to get it done I'm hopeful since they didn't make the fireworks here and they didn't make the bombs here and there wasn't the air strip and different things that went through here like in the Handover Rockland hen super fun site that this goes much smoother for everybody we also hope we wish you the best of luck when we you know just clear out with the Thompson machine gun you're on tape chairman I have four things just to summarize for the next meeting um get the public safety protocol in right um uh I have a not here add monitoring Wells not so much to the plan but I don't know maybe some kind of quick one page will you be drafting the conditions for the order I probably will we can have a dialogue on that I and that's fine that's fine um yeah add the conditions that I recommended um and an environmental monitor schedule that doesn't have to be well we want something you can work that out with them that separately can we call that an environmental monitoring plan as well because that may have Dynamic components to that we'll develop with Brandon the other thing is I will depending on when we have this meeting when they get this together then I'll ask you to be involved with that meeting okay um as long as you're available if you're not I'll go oh yeah that's right that that during the day meeting right right right right right got it if you're available um if the plan is sufficient okay okay folks we're going to be moving on thank you so much I'm going to get saf just pick and choose discussion yes um yeah uh 340 Plymouth Street I'm going to kind of take things out of order um I did call your son the the paving has been continued until member but and the other thing that hasn't been done but I've been pretty persistent is the catch BAS in front of you those have not been inspected yet but they will be I've been on that thank much thank you all think I'm good yeah I think I'm good I'm good thank you appreciate it yeah okay um just discussion items performance bond security agreement update um yeah I did read reach out um I'm not going to get into detail too much with this um I did reach out we're working on it I don't know um there might be a little transition with Town Council but um we're still working on that okay uh uh folks folks folks folks out in the hall out in the hall Paul we're on the record so okay um three Elm stre um I did a u site visit there for the re certificate of compliance and I did find that it was um it it met the criteria have the thing to sign it I me it says ready for Bo approv to sign off okay then um why don't I do this why don't I get a motion to sign off on the certificate of compliance for uh 3 Elm Street put a motion that we sign off on three Street second it okay motion and a second um vote I I I 30 okay's sign this MH this okay good thing you know how to do that nice okay next item on the agenda is lot 11 Tom the road um the enforcement order update the it did not have the the time to draft the letter but I will draft another letter um and at that point once we get the letter out then the board will have to decide what course of action they want to take Kathy had had talked about fining I'm not a big finding fan but it's up to the board if if we can't get compliance and this has gone on since um early July um it's the same similar situation is is 105 um we'll put it off I will get a letter out and um and see if we can get this resolved uh this is going to either require uh a full replication or if they want to file a notice of intent they can if they're going to do something there but they haven't done anything and we're into August so it's been almost 60 days and can are we allowed to have all his Lo thought on the same agenda I know we have to address them individually but just to stay intact and on target with them we have to base on the filing okay so once you file then you get on the agenda um and then once you don't get off until we make some sort of decision so chances are if you filed in February um for one and May and the other one if the one in February hasn't completed I mean this that other lot has been on for a long time in the last meeting no one was here so they continued it and now we're in where nobody knows what to do with the plan but okay so I will get that letter drafted um 285 Home Street just update on that the storm water management uh application has been submitted for 285 homes um just so everybody's aware that's been very contentious um Kathy I spent some time a month or so ago reviewing the file um I think that we can hopefully resolve 285 home street without any U use for Town Council with this next uh will we need a pay review for that still water are they going to do all it yes yeah that has gone out to be peer-reviewed okay but where this is storm water it'll be on the agenda um well excuse me it it'll be on it'll be on the agenda but we won't hold any hearings until everybody has responded so they submitted goes out the peer review then it'll go bard of Health Selman and then we'll we'll discuss it all right um bills bills say Che sign you sign the bills did we already do she she had me come in and sign something so this the bills no oh we have meeting minutes okay where are the Bills though I think she wants the she to be affirmed um we don't have them I think we can just uh affirm them yeah I don't see a folder with bus tonight okay I am going to be I'm going to be looking for a motion and um I'm going to read everything uh and I'll take one motion invoice number w24 -1975 D2 uh Plymouth Street map 73 L 7A peer review $1,125 invoice W 24-1 1978-2013 invoice w241 9792 347 Elm Street peer review $225 um the these had to be paid I did sign them I'm looking for a motion to ratify my signature I put a motion that way to ratify to ratify the bills P that's fine we have a second we'll have a vote I 30 okay meeting minutes I believe Miss King you need to sign off on this I think we are do and there's a note in these minutes that the tape ended before the second motion and the vote was finished so we have to make sure that if you go to the page right before here we just had there's that the footage was cut off before there was a second and the motion to adjourn was fully finalized so CA Cable's accidentally ending our meeting too early or we had technical issues okay I'm not sure we didn't know until afterwards and that was the late one so I think I'm okay with what we have here um somebody wants to question it that that's up to them um that was a 5H hour meeting so I'm looking for a motion to approve the J June 25th 2024 meeting minutes I make a motion to approve this 62524 meeting minutes as is look for a second second all in favor I okay um I just want to make a note that I've um I had some communication with the um is this one wasn't it oh yeah um we're the girl that's doing the minutes and I'm going to ask her and I'll make sure that it gets in on the next one um that we include in the meeting minutes whatever we reviewed meaning tonight we reviewed the site plan from whatever and that's all that just someone looks at the meeting minutes a year or two down the road we're okay it being 10:30 10:30 I'm looking for a motion to adjourn I put a motion come on but second I'll second okay all in favor 3 Z all right thank you very much thank you thank you [Music]