[Music] [Music] she I think we can go ahead and get uh started here so um I'll go ahead and call the Halifax finance committee meeting to order today is uh Monday March 18th uh it is uh 6:01 p.m. this meeting is being conducted remotely and recorded by area 58 an attendance from the Halifax finance committee is uh Cheryl zero Burke Michael Bennett Frank Johnston Jim Walters Bill Smith EJ Bryan and myself t dargi uh first order of business on the agenda was the acceptance of the finance committee meeting minutes from March 4th has everyone had a chance to take a look at those any questions comments I'm good I looked at them they look good to me yeah me too look fine me too yep okay all right would somebody then like to make a motion to approve the uh Halifax finance committee meeting minutes from uh March 4th don't moved thank you sh thank you Michael roll call vote uh Frank yes uh minutes from March 4th 2024 Jim uh yes approve the minutes for March 4th no yes EJ yes and myself as a yes as well uh motion carries unanimously uh next item on the agenda was uh originally the the review of the um school department budget as I think you've all heard and seen um that's going to be delayed so it sounds like the new plan is to um you know present the budget on April 1st on that Monday uh so that's going to put us um kind of up against the deadline to um you know review and approve everything and and get the uh the warrant out the door so uh we do have um Lauren uh laws on tonight so just to kind of give some updates on the overall budget and just have some general discussion um so I I did ask for a uh just a general timeline that the school committee is following and so they did uh pass that along and I I shared that with you all I don't know if you have had a chance to take a look at that um but I guess Lauren I guess I'll turn it over to you if you want to uh give some just general updates and we can kind of go from there um sure and just some general um and Sarah feel free to jump in if you feel like I'm not giving enough information or um anyway Sarah's our financial director for the district and um anyway this year I'm sure you all know we voted because our district was not operating how it was supposed to be so instead of we were we were a regional we are reg we were a Regional School District from 7 to 12th grade but then we also had prek students that were going to Kingston but we were paying them as an outof District tuition um we learned from desie after some Union negotiations with teachers that the way our school system was set up was not um I don't know what the right word but it wasn't appropriate we had to correct it so how it's corrected now starting this year is we are Regional School District for our prek students and then we're individual schools for our elementary schools K through six and then 7 through 12 is the regional um District again so in anticipation of this change we were expecting that instead of paying for outof district tuitions to for our prek students that those students would then um be part of the assessment for Silver Lake that we pay every year according to the number of students um however it hasn't been as simple as that um with the numbers that we've been getting where there's been a really large total increase in the cost of Education um and that's what's been taking so long because we've been trying to go back and forth to understand where the substantial increases are coming from because when we were making this transition we thought it would be okay we're going from paying out a district tuition to increasing our assessment to Silver Lake so our regular day budget would go down at HS you know our regular school but um and then we we might we thought we might actually see some savings from this because the assessment isn't as much as an out of District placement but um it hasn't been as simple as that because of how certain things were being paid and where things were actually in the budget and so it's um caused a lot of um it it's caused a lot of setbacks as far as setting the budget normally we would have already voted the budget and the past March meeting the last two years I was on school committee that's what we were able to do but because we've been asking a lot of questions because we want to understand where these increases are coming so and we've we on in our meeting Thursday night I think we got closer to understanding we know a lot of it is from special education expense which we do get reimbursed for some of that but and and there's inflation and contractual raises with the unions you know for cost of living we've gone over all of them and the numbers are getting closer but um we came between what was discussed at the meeting I don't know how far you want me to go but um we're looking at some significant cuts to the elementary school budget um Silver Lake voted to cut quite a bit from their budget they're discussing possibly cutting more so that the towns um individual towns don't have to cut as much but what they um voted on the meeting was an overall number and then coming back to vote the line budget later by Silver Lake but we haven't even gotten to that point yet with um our ATS budget um that I've seen a lot of numbers thrown around as far as what's possible and um so that's where we are right now um trying to pin that down I just could I yeah yeah go ahead EJ so uh Lauren how you doing um thanks for the overview good thank you that was helpful um just a quick question is the intention of the hes school committee to take the same approach where you get an overall line item first and then we we kind of break it down over time from there or are you guys taking a more granular approach right out of the gate um uh well we haven't I have ideas all around I I mean we we haven't really gotten to a point where we've gotten to even where we could make granular you know line by line Cuts because we're still figuring out exactly how much we need to cut right now so I mean we at the meeting we came the number was 780 780,000 that needs to be cut from the budget but there's been other proposals like I said to cut more from the Silver Lake budget to help towns but um I don't know where that is and also you know I mean h ideally it would be less painful if we could bring the cuts down to 500,000 as opposed to because our enrollment has been decreasing at the elementary school um we could cut down to three teachers at each grade in grades 2 through six this is just me talking I haven't even spoken to the superintendent about that yet but our our if we are like I said our enrollment is down o over like we're down to 541 students as opposed to 600 where we used to be before um we could in grades two through six right now if we had three teachers in each grade our class size would be average about 22 students per class okay so um but you know we don't want to we want to preserve the Integrity of the education of our kids so it's a really find balance that we need to approach so I mean I have ideas but um I haven't really talked to the superintendent about them yet and I'm not sure I mean Sarah would probably better be able to speak to I don't think they've got into cuts at a grer level and I don't think we've totally agreed on a number we at our last school committee meeting we said please present a budget to us with 300,000 in cuts and then also 500,000 in Cuts but then our now finding that that doesn't even seem like it's enough so okay thanks so much Lauren I appreciate it one of the reasons for the increase in the cuts is the version what budget version are you guys on now is it five four five I believe five right um Sarah four and five maybe maybe you guys were on four for the elementary school but whatever it was it um basically the most recent version that I got mid last week represented a $200,000 increase in our overall cost of Education compared to the previous version so hence the increase resulted in more of the need more of a need of a reduction because it actually increased compared to the ini initial numbers we were looking at um so and that'll you know once we have a better idea of what the impact of the reduced assessment will be um from Sarah and Dr PR then we can give you an exact number of kind of what would work within our confines I just took a 30 you know our enrollment our assessments 32 and a half% for fiscal 25 they were talking about about 1.6 million I think uh reduction in the assessment so 32 and a half% you know 520,000 or something in change and then just reduced that you know the potential deficit we were looking at and came up with that 680,000 number and the other question I had sorry what just for the finance committee that there was um at a certain point there was a 3% um like in our on our town budget there was 3% um accounted for growth and our Halifax Education costs that um would have covered some of this but that it was spent by the town I'm not and um so so there had historically been $300,000 when the town could left in the in the levy um un unutilized ultimately my understanding and speaking with the staff and and members of the committee is it wasn't necessarily for Education it was you know when the cost for whatever it may be education Insurance you know Pace what we could then we'd have to dip into it and ultimately we had to do that last year um you know health insurance is skyrocketed and these things while skyrocketed so it was more there at least from my understanding for just when we needed to use it and unfortunately we we had to use it okay um because you know obviously we're trying to make as few Cuts as we can and you know trying to see where they is money if there is any to sort of help us out because we're trying as hard as we can to make the budget more palatable and doable frankly I mean it's it doesn't it's not palatable at all it's just um we've gone through and you know on our side we're we're very lean you know you guys are aware how we operate but we're very lean um even from what was requested from our departments I mean we've almost almost every Department didn't get what they requested just because we can't we can't afford it and a lot of it was just level service we're we're looking at you know we cut everywhere that we can to try to free things up um growth you know a big part of it is growth is down in town right that's that's a huge issue you we usually average well over $100,000 in New Growth we're looking at about $882,000 this year and that's just direct dollars right coming into the town so it's a an issue with gross but also you know when I look at the trends of the school you guys average about 3% total cost of Education over the past 10 years has averaged 3% increase and then a median of you know 2.9 or 2.91 so we had been budgeting around 3% um just looking at the average in the in the trends and so that's kind of how we've worked and then obviously your schedule is a little bit more uh push back than ours so it can also present a challenge there because we have to you know we have to push forward with our with our the town side of the budget but the education side you're such a big portion right you know 50 to 60% it can present a challenge but we can't wait right if we waited we wouldn't even have a town budget at this point because we still you know you guys don't have your budget yet um right which is definitely one of I think my concerns I think the finance committee also is concerned with it and we in Laur we talked about this um but you know the April 1 is just if you guys haven't even started taking talking where you're going to make Cuts I'm just concerned you know April 1st literally is the very last date that we could get a budget from you guys and I have pushed back trying to get it sooner and asked if we can meet sooner this is something I can't speak to as well because we're not the only budget that has to be done so um I did ask if we could possibly meet March 26th because I know plimpton's meeting on March 25 fifth to try to at least get ahead because you know if we can't pass the budget and I don't know if an option is is if we can do the total amount because that was also suggested that we do the total amount and then work on the line items later like if we can approve the total amount um I just want to see what our options are because um you you know I obviously understand the importance of the timelines and um honestly want to get it also sorted out and finalized so um but I you know I did try to ask for an earlier time like an earlier time to see a budget but I don't know where our school our admins are on that and I am working with the other chairs of the other school committees as well to keep in contact with them with where their budgets are so that um you know just because I want to make sure we're all on the same page here all right yeah makes sense I guess any other questions for Lauren Lauren you had mentioned that the enrollments are down what was those numbers that you mentioned earlier in your in your speaking so the en enrollments are at 54 our the most recent enrollment that I'm aware of was 541 541 students we have a really large sixth grade class right now but of course they'll be graduating we also have a large kindergarten class um and we don't know what the kindergarten enrollment will be we'll have a better idea of that April 1 as well um so my thought being for the enrollment that we are sure of and knowing that the classroom numbers wouldn't be too large it would be my suggestion to cut those grades down to three teachers per level and I know we have a um a retirement coming so my suggestion would be not to fill that position and I mean I don't even I'm you know I'm speaking to you but these are things that I think just make sense for our town as a member of school committee so that I'm not sure that the school will agree with that so how many teachers total do you have currently um I don't know the total amount do you know Sarah it's four per grade plus um well then there's you know there's Staffing it's I mean there do you want Total Staffing or teachers I'm looking for Teacher counts okay I mean it's four per grade so Sarah Sarah sorry go ahead I want to apologize I wanted to work from home and I keep getting a message saying unstable network and everything is freezing and you know I just thought if I wasn't in the office for 14 hours today that would be good but that was a bad decision uh Lauren I don't know those numbers off the top of my head and um it would take me a little bit to dig into that and I could probably get that answer in about five minutes if the answer can wait I think so we don't I want to say the total staff is around you know I mean if you're asking for teachers I would say 28 but total staff you know is more like in the L high 50s probably knowing that some you know there's turnover andon you can't give me a total number of teachers then yeah well classroom teachers there's 28 there's four in each grade K through six Total Staffing is more my question so uh for this year do you anticipate being uh at budget or under budget for your current run we have Frozen we froze our budget I believe in November um because we were concerned about but anyway at the short story is we're we believe we will come in at budget that we will not need to ask for additional funding or anything okay anything specifically come to mind that you think is like running high from a from a cost perspective currently um program collaboratives for one sorry what the the collaboratives program public school program collaboratives um I I would have to look at the budget real quick okay sorry no worries the latest numbers MH so Lauren if you guys aren't meeting until April 1 are you are you confident that you think you'll actually have a number on April 1 or are you guys going to just I guess what is the plan where are you meeting on April 1 to decide okay we need to make x amount of dollars in cuts and then the administration goes back and then looks to see where those cuts can be made or what I guess what do you anticipate for that process um oh Sarah has her hand up but is that related to Cody's question or do you want me to answer Cody's question Sarah um I had the answer to the number of teachers okay uh there there are 57 teachers that includes classroom Specialists specialed teachers um that so total number that are covered by the teachers contract so the staff's actually higher I guess I had the teacher number as the full staff [Music] number what's the remaining Staffing number then I'm GNA have to go back to my spread sheet so you could wait for that um the other chairs and I are pushing to have more information before April 1 because I'm not comfortable with just giving a number without as much background I would really actually like to know more of a plan of how we're going to achieve the budget so I guess worst case scenario though I guess just back to the question if that doesn't happen before the first I guess what like what was what's the plan I guess to I'm sorry you cut out out sorry no so my question was just kind of back to Cody's the the spirit of Cody's question I guess so in the worst case scenario if if the numbers don't come across aren't presented until the first I guess what what's the game plan I guess to finalize the the budgets I guess we want to just make sure that we have everything I guess to be able to make the uh to to vote and and uh you know get the warrant together by the end of that week so uh want to just understand what what that's going to look like well oh I was going to say I mean if we don't then there's repercussions for our schools that you know if we don't have our budget set then I mean we really don't have a choice but to meet that deadline or we're going to start getting into scenarios that we don't want to get into with the state and um you know them looking at our budget and you know possibly you know we uh Jason Frasier spoke about the um consequences of if we don't have a budget and what happens to the state I don't remember all of the exact steps um but you know it's not something that we want to do so I would say we're highly motivated and um I you know I'm trying to get that information but Sarah did you want to add to that um to add to the ination that Jason Jason shared with us there are um there is a timeline for the Regional School District that will if certain benchmarks aren't met the end result is State takeover I don't know the timeline um but it the the beginning of the bad part of the timeline is if for the Regional School District we don't have a budget by July 1st then we have to function on what's called a 112th budget which is we would just every month get one 12th of what our previous year's budget was to operate [Music] on and then back to the question about Staffing there are and I apologize there are 56 teachers and there are 28 nonteaching staff at Halifax Elementary School 56 28j did you have a question or comment yeah it was um so Lauren at the meeting on Thursday last week um at the Silver Lake level one of the things that was talked about was the amount of scrubbing that administration had done on things like office supplies and stuff like that do do you know if those exercises have started at the HS level or are you still I'm just wondering if you guys have a true a true lens into what you're actual actually chasing right now or is that something that is going to come up when you start to really dive into line level um I think Sarah do you want to respond to that yes the the principles and the administration um started working on Friday and we have meetings set up per you know I believe the first meeting is Wednesday afternoon again keep in mind that the administration needs to meet with four distinct districts the three elementary schools in Silver Lake in order to um review all of the proposed Cuts okay thanks Sarah all right anything from anyone else any other questions before we let Lauren and others drop and feel free to reach out with any questions or updates I'm we're this is my first Year's chair um and so I am working as hard as I can to learn as much as I can um but I'm happy to find answers to questions and um would' be happy to entertain any questions and obviously want to work together for the complete good of our town and our budget so and our kids and our citizens and everyone so so so Lauren just one question before you go do do you have any insight as to the additional costs in the Silver Lake budget that have not been there for the last 2 years and are just being added into operations this year I'm still not I'll let Sarah answer for that question thank you Lauren um in the presentation Thursday night I went into great detail to explain a large increase in special education expense across all four districts there are current expenses in FY 24 that weren't budgeted for in FY 24 and there are additional expenses for fy2 um and th those addition students without of District placements those additional costs in addition to the students that we know about that are currently at say for example Reeds collaborative the increases to those costs um has just been an astounding number is that Sarah is that related to Transportation costs for the special ed or no largely Transportation costs but also the just the cost of the placements there were uh a a large number of students that are currently in placements today that weren't budgeted for last year Todd there are 22 lines that had no cost in 2023 no cost in the following year but have costs added for this coming year to be about 6,59 46555 in additional costs into the high school budget and and something to keep in mind too is these um these services are protected by law and of course we want to provide them and we have no choice and um it's it's just something I want to make sure is known that um these services are protected and necessary um so all of our students can access education and it's it's and that's another thing that we have to be careful with when we make our cuts is that we are meeting the obligations of the services in um students that have IEPs and um whatever they're they are entitled to in order to access education so it's a challenge but it's you know but it's um something that we must provide and it's important well I'm not questioning the legali behind it no I know I'm just I just want to say that because I worry these are what I'm what I guess my point is is this $6 million wasn't there for the last two years now it is so Jim as are those the lines that handle the outof district special ed and the outof district special ed Transportation because even though they weren't in the assessment last year they were in our budget under the elementary they weren't in these were these are lines from the last previous two years that had zero cost associated with them right now have cost this year so maybe and and that's that very well may be the outof district special ed which last year was covered under the elementary school budget rather than the Silver Lake budget Jessie has told them they have to cover it under the Silver Lake budget now um they can't for out of District special ed for grades 7 through 12 and it actually is from grade seven through age 22 I believe um but those costs are now in the Silver Lake budget where they never were before but if you want to send me the page that those lines are on I can just verify that that that's what we're talking I can send you the spreadsheet that I built out of the line items that we got that would be fine yeah yeah and Sarah I saw you had your hand up did you have a comment on that or more insight or potentially no okay um all right anything else from anyone any other [Music] questions no okay all right well I mean thank you uh Lauren and Sarah and Katie for joining we you know C appreciate the partnership we'll be um you know waiting anxiously for any updates that you may have so um you know kind of and kind of go from there we realize that you know it's a challenge we obviously you know as a committee and as a town we want to service the residents and the you know certainly the students as best possible but we have to do that within the constraints of the uh financial budget so it's a bit of a challenge but um you know we look forward to working with you all to uh get over this hurdle uh you know for this year and certainly years to come as well right so thank you for thank you for having me and as a resident I want to tell you that I appreciate the work you do thank you sir appreciate that and um again thank you for taking the time to to join tonight and give us um you know the updates to where where you have them uh obviously we know it's a very fluid situation so but again if you can keep us in the loop obviously which I know you will uh once you hear more and and learn more and um you know to the extent where we continue can continue to participate in uh any side sessions or ongoing uh meetings then we'd certainly certainly like to be a part of that as well where possible so absolutely okay thank you much than for having thank you thanks ladies thank thank you um okay all right so then moving on on the agenda I guess so the next item was you know kind of just a placeholder to review uh the miscellaneous departments if anyone had any specific kind of questions or anything to kind of go back over but um you know that's changed a bit in MO of um you know all that's kind of transpiring here so I know Cody you've made some changes uh to some recommendations I guess do you want to maybe step through those I guess now I guess yeah sure way um folks can kind of ask some questions and we can kind of get all on the same page so um in light of obviously the budget concerns that we're having with the schools um I really have just been trying to you know hone on these these figures everything we have see if there's any excess that we can cut out right because anything that we can cut out is going to help you know we can add um put put that over to the schools you guys know um we're very lean if you look at you know what what we're looking at there's not much to cut right our expense side of things are very limited to begin with so you'll see um I sent out um I sent out kind of just a synopsis today but one the I cut a couple hundred dollars out of our selectman expense budget um we had proposed increasing that a little bit just for the cost of meetings and such again it's a couple like $300 but trying to really um cut this down as much as we can uh the next one that I recommending the cut in would be the accountant salary I was proposing a um step three for because we just don't know what we're going to hire but I think based off of what um the applicant pool is right now we're not seeing tons of um experienced candidates so it's more likely that we'll bring someone in at step one or two um so I was able to chave off you know $2,300 there um in our town building wages we were proposing um a significant increase in the overtime uh I don't think we need quite that much so I was able to cut off a couple thousand dollars there just looking at kind of the trends um for this past year then go previously the only year we had a lot of overtime there was covid uh year where they were kind of doing a lot of things extra so so I think we can cut off a couple thousand do there um uh Board of Health expense I was able to cut about $500 off the reason for that is and Bob Valerie noted this in his expense budget um he's been able to take on all of the Food Services uh inspections with the exception of one or two that he uses a consultant for so we were able to reduce his cons my recommendation would be reduce that Consulting by a little a little bit uh and then the other one was heating oil for all buildings I was able to cut off $2,000 that was really a reallocation because we're going to be looking to add some heat pumps through a green communities Grant to the town hall um so with that right we're going to see increase in electric cost but a little bit of a reduction in the heating oil because three of our five um zones at Town Hall will be based on heat pumps we'll keep the oil as a backup but uh so that's that's there and you know anywhere else Beyond where we've already cut based on recommended budgets I mean uh requested budgets from what I'm recommending we really would have to start looking at Staffing um reducing reducing Staffing levels which you know if you look at where we are um and you know what we have there really is no you know it's not a could point to these staff members and say hey these are kind of excess or these are you know provide a better service the community we already operate at really lean level um and just kind of get get the operation by so um you know again we'd have to see what what the pleasure of the finance committee would be but we I have't dug into you know what positions exactly we would look to cut um or where we would look to cut those yeah it's a challenge I guess Cody have we ever gone through the exercise of going through like what we would deem um you know critical staff versus um know it might get to something if we haven't maybe something we need to start thinking about I guess because it may get to the point you know at some point where we need to really scale back to what we'd kind of have as like a a critical uh function in order to to support the town I guess and yeah no I mean I certainly have a a list um particularly as I've been going through starting over the weekend really trying to um you know adjust to to the concerns here um there definitely an internal it basically comes down to you need you need someone in every Department you know at least one person and then you look at and most of that is you're going to have the department head in the because they're the ones with the technical ability right so now you're the the staff we would be looking at cutting are the ones that are um there's less of a cost for us anyways right you know we're paying our department heads a higher rate than we would be say administrative staff um and then you come to the issue of well we're already is kind of Getting By so if we're talking about you know cutting the support staff well now you're looking at may have to um look to external uh Consultants or whatever it may be so the cost may not there may not may not be a cost savings um and then we and then the other thing is obviously you know if if we were to get into uh layoffs we would have to unemployment is certainly a factor we don't budget for unemployment our operating cost oh it's yeah it's costly as well so it's yeah yeah so that's one thing to consider um you know I think it this is tough because I don't know right where the school is exactly we know where Silver Lake is you know with with their recommended cuts and one thing I'll note on the Silver Lake is you know so Silver Lake is recommending um a little over $800,000 in actual cuts to their budget and then they're recommending I think it's $750,000 in their um end account basically one-time Monies to fund this year's operating cost with the idea that next year uh some of their circuit breaker monies rather than being diverted to the elementary schools here going to go to Silver Lake so my concern there is it definitely works for Silver Lake for this year and then that money will be there next year but we're going to be right back in this situation next year with the elementary school because that money is that we're getting now to help us offset our elementary school budget the circuit breaker funds most of that or a good portion of that is going to be diverted to Silver Lake next year yeah and so we're going to be I just I kind of want to make that known too whatever we do however we get by this year we're going to see another likely sizable increase next year it that's going to be no result of increased uh costs of the elementary school rather it's going to be the result of a decrease in Revenue uh in that Circ breaker money that's going to be diverted to Silver Lake we're not going to see a reduction from Silver Lake because they're using one-time monies this year to to fund that so that that's definitely a concern that we need to be aware of and I want you guys to be aware of that regardless of how we make it through this year there's going to be another concerning uh aspect of the budget next year without without any increases we're going to see that loss in the um the circuit breaker EJ did you have a comment yes um Cody thank you for saying that I think that's I I think that's one of the most important points here is this isn't a short-term issue this is something that's going to carry year-over-year that we have to keep an eye out for um with with that said um I I I'm gonna make I'm gonna make a comment here and I'm gonna make a comment here knowing that we've talked extensively about this um but you know know I think everyone's Last Resort is probably cutting position I think that's that's something that nobody wants to do ever um that that being said we spent a lot of time in wage and Personnel talking about increases and what that would look like um for this coming year and in years moving forward um you know and that's something that I know we're trying to get on the warrant for or will be on the warrant in May um I just wonder if you know there's an opportunity to help with this situation by having additional conversations about that rather than looking at Staffing cuts no it's a great Point EJ I knew that would come up tonight so I ran some figures for you just to kind of show so the only thing um wage and personnel has control or per se is the non-union non-contracting positions so I um I costed those out you know what that Co looks like if you were to do a 0% right because we've already settled our contracts our Union contracts are 2% uh cost living adjustment so that and that was settled last year um you're talking a savings if you did a zero you're talking a savings of about $42,000 yeah that's the challenge it's non material right so it's uh you know and then you run into obviously again you you never want to have to eliminate staff um the concern with you know avoiding cost of living adjustments and increases is similar to I think what the town experienced going back about a year and a half two years um a lot of the staff left um as you know other issues going on too but just you know a consistent feeling of being underpaid you know prior to last year with kind of the reclass the cost of living adjustments were 01 and 1.6 um so they just it had been a consistent concern now I think in a normal climate where you know colas were maybe uh more reflective of the market and then we had to do a you know a oneye hey we we can't do something this year or we have to do a 1% this year because we're going through a really you know challenging uh Financial climate that I think is something that um the staff can you know get behind more right because it's a it's a it's a one-time thing I think the problem is that it had been more of the norm at least in recent history town so then it just becomes a real challenge to to recruit in retained staff so Cody I I apologize if you said if you said this I missed it but does that $42,000 does that include the step increases that we talked about that does not so that's just the cost of living uh adjustment so what would what would the step increase policy do find that out because I I I want to venture to say that that would probably be more significant is that correct it probably would be because a step is 2.8% um on the scale so where the cost living adjustment is 2% I I haven't calculated that because everyone's it's not as simple as a calculation it's not just taking 2% of the the already calculated payroll we would have to go back through and calculate not giving everyone steps and each step is a different date calendar year can get you that figure um probably something we should take a look at Cody just to have the number so we can assess it just part of because right now it's just really a wild card right we don't really know this I will say the other um you know thing to consider if we were to you know start doing that is um you know our town hall administrative staff none of them are unionized they you know um it's certainly something they could do in particular where we have we've we had all of our other contracts right have the steps they're going to get and have a cost living adjustment so we have five unions that have that on the town side and then the school as uh elementary school has three groups I believe that they recognize um that are looking at you know they all have steps and then they also I think they they are actually a higher Cola for this year or for this coming fiscal year for fiscal 25 they might be 2 and a half or 2.75 so it's it it can be difficult to now then say this non-union group is going to be the only one um to not you know do the do those things again totally you know something not saying it's not worth considering but I just want to give you the big picture of this is these are also the oh yeah no it's definitely a fair point but the alternative could be that we have to lay these positions off right so in order to to keep them by you know maybe reducing some of the increases maybe the way to go um so I well I do appreciate the comment I guess you know I do think it's something we should just you know keep in our back pocket I guess to assess to see what that impact will be just you know it's just so we have all options available right I think we want to be able to understand you know what's at our disposal and and make the best informed decision possible Right which is all we're doing at the end of the day right we're recommending on behalf of the town but it's really going to be up to the town citizens to decide you know what what kind of town they want right and it may be that we have to reduce some services and and you know they have to decide if that's you know what they want or or that you know so um Todd I I had one more question and that was go ahead um out of curiosity I was wondering if we might have any annual contracts that are in place that are set to renew this year that we could consider um going from an annual contract to a time of materials type of agreement with someone just to to try to trim cost that way on the town on the town side of things to help about here not that I'm aware of a lot of that we've already Tri trimmed um where we can so nothing um nothing that I can think of but I'll certainly put it out there to all the department heads if there's individual contracts in their departments that they're aware of okay s go ahead yeah Cody I I mean Todd I'm very concerned with the idea of trying to balance the budget on the B of the wage and Personnel employees because they do all work very hard they do deserve their steps they do deserve a cola and to be the only group in town who does not get a cola or steps or even just not a cola is not fair to those employees as Cody talked about we had a mass Exodus over the last two years we have so many new people in town in the town hall and those people were all hired with the idea that they will get step increases they will get cost of living increases and to balance the budget on their backs is just not fair yeah thank you Sandy I definitely appreciate that um you know comment and um you know we certainly I don't know that there's any easy decision here right as far as uh you know getting getting everything balanced uh you know when we did and that's why I made the comment um to kick off the wag and Personnel last week is that just to reiterate everyone that we did make these decisions to increase the steps and and and go forward with um you know all of those um changes because we recognize that you know historically there has been a problem we want to do right by the um employees but knowing that there it could uh exacerbate I guess some some long-term you know issues and meeting our the town's financial needs right you know certainly that's come you know pretty quick because uh we may have some challenges and and just getting through this year alone but you know we made those decisions you know knowing that um you know knowing that we had to right in order to to your point to bring talent in and things of that nature and and hopefully try to retain people we had to give we had to increase the salaries our salaries were you know stuck in the 80s um in many cases and people were making more money at uh you know faster restaurants than than performing some of these professional jobs for the town right so which was a major problem um but again I think you know we'll have to just see and we're not obviously looking to make any decisions tonight certainly not you know but um I think just evaluating all of the possible scenarios and and you know coming up with the best recommendations is uh you know the duty of this committee so um you know we need to explore every opportunity I think to uh to balance the books um certainly certainly not in favor of um you know making any Cuts it's you know some I think it should be the last resort certainly uh you know it is very expensive that you know as Cody mentioned as well with unemployment and things of that nature so those are costs we have to you know uh value you know add in and and look at the the true net uh impact of doing so because it may be that uh you know we end up not saving uh nearly as much as we anticipated which could be a problem in itself so go ahead Frank you have a did you have a point or uh yeah yes um I agree with what most part of what Sandy has to say there but you know the schools have got to get a budget together they've got to make tough decisions they need to get it to us so we can figure out what the heck's going on here and come to a consensus of what we need to do moving forward you know we can't be held hostage by that yeah exactly but I mean we are that's the problem right um you know we certainly have our hands tied here it's hard to you know we're just speculating and you know what we could maybe do or which way we need to go um you know we really need to be able to see the numbers and and um and see where we kind of go from there and and make the recommendation but you know I think you know Cody's done a great job of being very clear as to what we can afford and um you know quite frankly you know I don't see uh how we could vote to proove something beyond that right so um so I think we do need to hold the uh you know the school Community accountable to to meeting um you know our financial capabilities right like we can't we can't pay for more than than we have certainly right like I think you know we all want to you know do as much as we can for the schools and support the town and and things of that nature but um you know we have to live in the reality of what we have so um so definitely some challenges to come I guess but right now it's a lot of it's just really speculation but I do think we should kind of look at all um available you know funding sources and and you know not necessarily um some of them you know may be at the bottom of the list but just to to kind of gather uh that up so we have it available if if the time comes where we need to make some really tough decisions which hopefully will never come but um you know it's possibility that it may yeah I think all of that is valid you know this the other thing is this is really like the perfect storm um you see that email I kind of highlighted a lot of it but we I nobody could have predicted an 11.6% increase to our cost of Education this year I mean I you know I look at Trends um you know look at enrollment Trends and we certainly can predict some variability uh from you know the average 3% but we couldn't have predicted 11.6 that's just it's not something we could have could have done um the other conc issues right part of this perfect storm is growth growth is down significantly so you see kind I send you the past five years of growth and we're looking at about 84,000 this year and speaking with the or 82,000 is what we're using for a number we have 84 right is what my the our assessor Debbie Dean had said to me uh last Friday or Thursday 84,000 new growth for fiscal 25 so that's that's a serious issue too um Chapter 70 right the the state aid that we get for Education we got a $199,000 increase this year 0.55% that's that's you know that that hurts that's a big portion of our state aid and we only got a 0.55% increase um we got a three again this is estimated too and that's this one of the other things I'd like to mention we're using the governor's budget for the um for state aid we're very hopeful that the governor you know that that we get that or at least that but there is some risk in using that number um where you know a smaller number could be utilized by you know what ends up getting passed I I don't think so but again that is you know something we're not sure of um other than the 3% increase to unrestricted government Aid we're seeing almost decreases in almost every other category um including veterans benefits and then our assessments are obviously up a little bit more too so that contributes to the the perfect storm here um local receipts you know we've seen we're certainly predicting an increase there and if you look at the budget sheet that's what's kind of helping us get along where we can even get to where we are um but it's it's not at the rate yeah it was as it was before and I'm sure you you guys see this in kind of your own worlds and the economy the economy is kind of slowing down a little bit uh we have that postco boom with all the stimulus and obviously the inflation but things are starting to settle down a little bit and we're we're seeing that too in our local receipts so all of this right combined together and then throw on top of it you know the proposed 11.6% cost of Education it's um yeah it's been a perfect storm and then you see you know I did try to highlight you know where our increases are on the town side and you see right where we're looking at a 9% increase in Plymouth County Retirement that we can't do anything about that that is a fixed cost there is no and that's you know that's a huge that's almost $2 million $1.8 million yeah um 10 . 3% increase in our health insurance or insurance so that's health and dental life insurance U which I will note that's a large portion of that is the elementary school so looking at last year about 900,000 of that 1.2 is for is actually utilized for Elementary School Employees so you know even though we're seeing the increase in that cost of education budget it actually goes beyond that what we're seeing there because a large portion of this increase here is also attributed to to education um there's staff members that they're adding as a result the reallocation of the special ed programs for fisal 25 they're adding I think uh three staff members and as of now at least two of them are planning to you know take the health insurance so rather than us looking at maybe just a flat increase percentage wise of our health premiums well now we need to look at adding you know the cost of employees taking that additional so that that helped to exac that cost there so you know our fixed cost we're seeing a 9% increase $320,000 which you know when you're talking a $30 million budget that's that's a lot and things that we have just no control over um yeah and you know you look at a lot of our other categories you know Public Safety we're only looking at like 2% 1.9% there so you know we're we're trying to do everything we can to um be as lean as possible everywhere that we can be yeah Michael did you have a did you have something or no sorry no okay you know we are hopeful growth will pick up a little bit um for next year I think obviously we know in particular with schools fiscal 26 is going to be another challenging year um I had been predicting that fiscal 26 was going to be a challenge I was not predicting fiscal 25 would be you know particularly this much of a challenge I think fiscal 26 would be a a challenge again then I'm hopeful fiscal 27 we start to level out we'll have some um you know growth in town uh with the uh senior the 55 plus Condominiums right that's predicted to bring in know somewhere in the four to $500,000 in New Growth um there'll certainly be some cost attributed to that but you know that that's helpful there's some development of um a couple businesses on um on Plymouth Street you know depending on when those get built out that may help we do have a solar um a solar field going up that we're able to use for fiscal 25 for New Growth so that helps us um for next year but it's uh yeah certainly a challenge and and Halifax isn't unique in this you know I've spoken with a lot of uh my counterparts and you know comparable communities and they're looking at you know the same issues where in particular right where growth is is really um slowed down and I guess Cody just in Spirit of kind of just throwing all options on the table for for thought I guess as part of this brainstorm session I guess if if that's what you want to call it I guess but um in regards to the free cash is concerned I know we certainly have significant challenges with some of the capital requests that are coming but what are the um disadvantages or um negative outcomes I guess with utilizing maybe some free cash to inject into the uh into to the fiscal year budget yeah know I thought about this Todd um obviously we never want to use one time monies right for annual operating costs but again all all cons trying to consider all options free cash for this year um is going to be low we are anticipating somewhere around the 600,000 range um so it's you know we we you we're kind of already at a point where um we've historically been kind of minimally contributing towards a lot of our Capital uh assets such as our roads and Facilities um you know even at that 600,000 Mark you're looking at probably 300,000 we annually do to to the roads um the police cruisers again we'd have to talk with the chief but you know we usually get two new Cruisers that's 120,000 there so now at 420 we have some mold remediation that we have to take care of at the fire department for about $100,000 at 520 and then we have a lot of our fire gear that is um uh coming up on expiration he had initially requested somewhere in the 170 range um so if you can fund you know at least half of that to make sure that at least everybody has up to code gear now you know that's 880,000 now you're at your 600 um so it's yeah I mean it's a challenge uh there not not necessarily A a great option Cody what type of remediation we talking about at the firehouse um I don't know the intricate details Frank I I know they have um mold that needs to be removed and it's going to it's going to result in having to you know open walls and then you know redo the walls one of I think a lot of it's in a bathroom and then obviously so ripping apart a bathroom um is expensive and then so you know replacing the bathroom whatever whatever they do to remediate it um is expensive as well we have an asbest issue in that same area I'm not sure that would be better suited for Scott Mata okay yeah and I guess just to add to for everyone's awareness which you know we'll go through the capital request uh shortly but you know not tonight but in an upcoming meeting um you know there are some significant concerns longer term as well right with some of the larger ticket expenses that will be coming up that will certainly uh be more than we'll ever have in a in a oneyear um free cash basis right so it's something that really needs to be saved for um and you know just with Cody's rundown as you can see there really isn't any uh availability to do that um this year and and it hasn't been in the past either so um in past years so something that we need to um keep it in the back of our minds as well and come up with some potential solution there you know or or run into um you know additional challenges down the road but um so I mean as you can see you know we definitely have some very significant challenges uh not only for this but also upcoming as well so um I I do think it's important to note that this isn't the result of us giving raises to people um you know because I I've kind of heard a lot of that not necessarily from from you guys but just kind of out and about you know this is because we adjusted wages and stuff and it's that's not what this is this is this is not that you know this is just like I said a perfect storm um being really the main factor you know proposed 11.6% in Education costs you know which is over 50% of our budget that's that's really what it comes down to and we we have to pay our people that's something we're certainly not overpaying our people um now but right people are our biggest assets and we need to pay them fairly and and I think we're we're accomplishing that now which is great um but I just I just want to point that out this isn't a result of that um at all yeah no it's a great Point coach and and definitely appreciate the clarification for folks that may not be aware of the the defin details it's you know simply the cost of doing business right and so again the town will need to decide what kind of you know Town operations you know they want and if you do want those Services then this is the cost of them right you know we certainly were losing people at a rapid Pace um so um because of the the salary um has been you know was outpaced where you know back in the 80s right the scales hadn't been touched so um so I think we're definitely compensating folks to where they should be at and you know we do have some challenges as well with Sandy leaving right so it's very significant position as well that we're looking to replace um so what any yeah go ahead Frank I want to talk about the SRO over at the middle school here a little bit um why are they requesting a full-time SRO over there Sandy may be able to get more or or um if anyone in the school committee May able to get more details on this basically Kingston funds so this because the schools are in Kingston they're Kingston officers um Kingston basically funds A fulltime High School SRO and then past practice has been to have someone over at the middle school Halifax pays you know two3 plin pays a third um and you know we received both requests this year um and so I you know I well know which again this is one of the things I questioned in uh in our meeting with the school administration the that number you're seeing is only two-thirds which is High um and so they're supposed to be getting answers for us on that because right if you look at the full-time one um just doing quick math that would be over $100,000 a year for a an SRO looks like yeah yeah for an um which you know nine approximately nine months out of the year you know they're not it's not like they're even there year round so um the superintendent's supposed to be getting us answers Sandy had thought maybe in in previous years that she had been told that they that's actually an overtime rate because it's a Kingston officer they don't hire someone for it but they just they put you know it's an overtime detail or you know just an overtime um shift for the officer hence why we're paying so much so um again it's every again everyone's supportive of school resource officers and and doing everything we can but and I sent it to you but I I can't see how we can increase that this year um because that directly comes out of you know what we rais and appropriate so you're taking from one pot and pulling to the other so if we if we increase that to full-time that's just more basically of a deficit we have to make up somewhere else exactly yeah I don't see how we could support um you know adding to that in the light of everything that's going on and the challenges in front of us Todd um yeah go ahead so having the school resource officer on overtime doesn't make any sense because they have to be certified by post just stest you just can't throw anybody in there so I don't know what they're doing but it's got to be someone who's certified and trained you can't just plug any officer in there in overtime that doesn't seem right right and I do understand that but I do believe that that was the conversation that was had and I'm talking about three or four years ago when this was first implemented I if Chief chavs is still on I know that he's been in conversations he has his hand up Chief you muted y so Sandy is correct when this idea was first brought out um I believe uh three four years ago um the uh and that's the disagree ment that I had with the idea at the time was they were uh Kingston was going to place an officer there for whatever amount of time uh he was going to be there and it was going to be this is before post obviously and uh it it was going to be whoever's name was up so obviously I I felt that wasn't really what the whole SRO type thing is because you want the officer to build rapport with the children and all that yes um and um ultimately um it is he is he a full-time SRO he's gone to the training he's post certified and it's the same officer um it kind of evolved after post uh set those those uh requirements um but my biggest uh you know beef with it was that you know we I was we were literally funding I thought Kingston officer salary um you know at when school was not in service basically when know we we were putting money in into uh into that Kingston's budget and then they were just taking that money and and and you know whatever having them doing traffic at you know whatever they wanted to do because they had that actra that that exra officer so we went back and forth I I you know I spoke at at the school committee and I um wrote a letter and all that stuff that I don't think it was a good idea you know uh but ultimately you know Kingston voted yes um I'm sorry plinton voted yes um and and Kingston you know was paying for the full-time SRO at the high school so um you know we kind of like had to to follow suit but since then um he has uh he is fully certified it's the same officer that's there all the time um again because like um Mr Smith said um you know all the post um requirements that these guys have to be trained you know it's going to be the same officer and there's a bunch of other specialized things they have to do to to be in those schools but it is it is the rate of pay that we're paying the amount is very high and um the first year Halifax didn't vote to fund it climton just funded a certain amount so we only got less than the part-timer I guess um the last two years Halifax has voted to support it and but I don't know how we would be able to and they didn't really give us a reason for needing the fulltime as opposed to the part-time did they Cody I don't remember any reasoning that came along with it no not that I recall just that they would like to have it so the part times 20 hours a week is what the superintendent had told us uh and then the full time would be 40 or whatever schools since session yeah the first year that climton funded it and we didn't uh he was basically I believe at the school um I think you know like 10 12 hours a week um and then um when we put in our our third or two-thirds whatever it was then he became a uh I think the last couple years he's been a full-time and as far as as the I don't know what the amount is that they're requesting but I know King just signed a new contract so that might have been the increase um you see on their on their rates I feel that that 117 is very high um for I mean even I mean I don't even I mean for I believe you know the officers even if he's three or four years on the job um that's a that's a for base pay that's kind of uh rather high but I don't know what the the Kingston's contract looks like but I know they just recently sign signed a new contract and they did get a uh um you know new increases all right any other uh thoughts or questions from anyone I guess regards to the budget I just have I just have one final question Cody and um so I I sent the spreadsheet that I created out to everybody I didn't send everything because I got some stuff in powerbi but that's that's for my own edification I guess um have we you know is there any discussions around incurring debt for these gaps instead of you know going you know I I agree that we we've cut a lot of stuff um but you know the other option is incurring debt to carry it through uh whatever Gap that would be that would be remaining I'm not saying I recommend that I'm just saying is that something that has been discussed or considered at any point uh no I think what what you would have to do would be you'd have to basically Bond whatever we were to use for Capital and then you would use the free cash if you were to to supplement the budget you wouldn't be able to uh bond for the operational C you know the Gap in the operational cost would have to you would have to use um like I said I think you the only way I could see it working is if you bonded for whatever items you were going to use the free cash for and then use the free cash to to help okay I see what you're saying so you just swap out swap swap where they go right okay that's that was that's all I had yeah again not something I'd recommend I also we have a stabilization fund we want to make that you know larger we don't want to reduce that but you know that is that is there um the stabilization fund but you know we're think we're at 1.2 million right now um we want to try to increase that not not decrease it but yeah we just got that squared up a little bit this last year or so coup yeah it's been a focus area it's something that we wanted to like ideally we wanted to take a haircut each year off of the free cash I just you know and add to it like you know 100,000 each year uh you know is is the goal um but and we and we you know have set that over the past couple years but you know this year is certainly going to have um some challenges in in maintaining that so um you know the higher we get the free cash then you know can affect up Bond rating and things of that nature you know taking out more debt just kind of kicks the can down the road a bit and may lead to to you know more you know may exacerbate the uh the whole problem we're faced here financially because um you know there are going to be some ongoing challenges upcoming as well so correct yeah we need to maintain that as much as possible yeah yeah we do you know we we've already kind of um you we've looked everywhere you know tried to look everywhere you can see I mentioned the overlay overlay has a healthy amount in it right now well over $300,000 and we've been averaging about uh 160 170 um in live abilities the past five years so we did um you know we are seeking that the assessors cut that in half which you know that frees up that freed up an additional $80,000 for us again that's not something we can sustain long term but recognizing that this is kind of an off year with the The Limited growth in the you know state aid um that's something we've done you know there's opep I think we're proposing to put 45 or $44,000 into our opep trust again that's a yeah we want to continue funding op we have a high unfunded liability but you know those you that's something else to look at again just not saying I recommend it uh more just throwing out different things areas to look at what's the funding amount for that Cody trying to remember my head you know uh 40 let's see last year we did 44,000 and this year we have a financial policy that we try to increase it by $5,000 each year but if not we do we do a minimum of a $1,000 increase so um in fiscal 23 we contributed 39,000 last year we were able to do the full five so we increased it to 44 and then this year we are proposing 45,000 yeah I thought it was like 140 for some reason much so much lower than even that so um okay and Cody you're looking at those Tempest uh budget reduction sheets that we had a departments go through as well for an exercise I have I've started looking at I reviewed almost all of those um over the weekend and today just to see you know is there anywhere we can pull from with you know uh no real impact on Services recognizing you know may make things a little more challenging operationally but the ultimate impact isn't there but and they're all in the the folders so feel free to look at them there really isn't anything yeah there wasn't much there no and a lot of it comes down to um our departments are very lean in expenses right most of our most of our costs are salary related so when you look at cutting expenses you know you kind of come up with similar to what I was able to do a few hundred here you know maybe a couple thousand dollars there but um you know when you only have an expense budget of 4,000 you're limited you know what you can cut in particular if you look at actuals um and the transend the past few years we're kind of most departments are pretty close to that and they're not frivolously spending it's you know getting what you need right exactly kind of just to get by um so but you know without talking going into reducing Staffing the there really isn't much there um you saw I kind the Board of Health budget it cut a little bit the my uh expense budget through the select B cut that a little bit um but a lot of it yeah and you know you saw the the town clerk's budget you know we that was uh an increase this year but we have to do it we have elections you know we have state requirements we have to do those things so um yeah we have three elections this year uh yes yeah for fisc yeah for fiscal 25 yeah yeah fiscal 25 yeah and then obviously the presidential which is busier she has to have you know hire more pole workers more staff there's the the um advaned ballot Advanced processing the mailin ballots so that adds a lot of um that it all requires Staffing to to implement all right any other thoughts or comments from anyone or we move off to this so just a thought Todd I know Cody looked at numbers um across the various departments already um and come up with your feedback and thoughts on on what can be done um we obviously have some time between now and when we're going to see anything from the school committee about what we're actually chasing um just a question for the finance committee as a whole I mean do we do we want to sit down with departments again even though we've already done it once to scrub their numbers and really try to dissect that and see if there's a way that we can help with that process well I don't I mean it's a great question but I think we've already you know we've already prepared for that so when they submitted the budgets we had them submit uh with a 10% increase uh sorry decrease in there so we so we have those um all saved out on the folder so that like that will really be where we have to draw from is those uh those 10% reduction budgets so um I mean we can certainly take a look through some of them tonight if if folks want to look at a specific one um or we can you know take them away and look through them uh but that's really where we're going to have to try to draw from outside of that it would really be um you know Staffing reductions I think because it's just more of a thought Todd to to proactive the question because um you know if school committee comes back and we and we do have to find something somewhere and it's you know we all agree that we don't want to go Personnel if we don't have to right I know it's definitely yeah it's I mean yeah it's a great thought but it's kind of you know we've kind of already addressed that just by asking for you know Cody asked for that up front to submit two budgets the uh you know the proposed and then you know um worst case scenario if you had to take a 10% cut I guess Cody have we do you know I guess that we looked at What's the total dollar impact of that 10% cut across all all budgets do we have that in aggregate I guess um yeah I don't have it on the top of my head but yeah no that's fair just the um the only caveat to that is a lot of departments in their 10% Cuts were Staffing related which yeah right that's right so then it's it's hard to put give you an actual because now there's unemployment cost that I you know that we have to factor in so I can certainly go through and give you a um a dollar amount of non Staffing you know of everything that was proposed or or I should say non ruction in Staffing so you one of the examples the police chief gave was reduces the overtime budget um so again we wouldn't have to necessarily uh reduce Personnel but the the implication of that is if there's uh a midnight shift or an overnight shift and you know he maybe isn't able to force someone to do it because of the overtime well now you may only have one officer on that shift so it's not a a cost of you know having to pay unemployment or actually reducing the staff there's other implications like that but I can certainly go through um and add those up um yeah I think that would be great great to have yeah just so we can you know kind of know what we're working with in a worst case scenario um and then knowing that anything beyond that would you know be the the Staffing and I think the Staffing is a whole another set of Canon worms that we have to try to avoid at all at all costs but then if we do go down that route yeah we need to figure out we need to work to figure out what the net impact would be right before we even make that decision because uh cutting somebody may not uh actually save much money at all right so um but so yeah I guess Cody so that number for so the reductions outside of any staffing impacts if we could get like that dollar amount I guess as an aggregate number just so we know like what's available um so yeah absolutely would you like it um total amount um without including say reductions and staff right would you like me to include the things like the overtime reduction where again it could be an impact on Services right but but there wouldn't be a an impact a further Financial impact on the town it would just be a you know a serious service impact I think so yeah I think those those should be fair game yeah so any overtime you know it's not cutting the position itself but you know the hours you know the hours would be so there is an impact to the employee but you know employee still has his or her job I guess yeah definitely do that okay and then so the and then the other one was the um the impact the dollar impact for the um if we were no step increases no step yeah exactly yeah so those two I think would be good just to to have at our uh disposal as we go through these discussions any does everybody agree with that I guess any other thoughts from folks on the Comm I think I I think that not just the schools but all the Departments need to take a hard look at if they're running close to or over budget on things from a run rate perspective they need to get those under control because if we're going to uh overspend what we plan to spend in for for this fiscal year it's not going to help us at all next year or or rolling into next year so you know that's and and and the austerity measures should start happening today instead of waiting until July yeah yeah agree that's true what yeah it's a good point Jim one of the things really I've been trying to focus on is just to um to get our department heads to monitor these things and and you know keep an eye on these things regardless of kind of the the uh concern around the budget we want to make sure we're sticking to our budget and aware of it and where we are anyways you know even in the best financial um circumstances so um and we you know we've done some things with some Financial um uh purchase orders um so procurement and purchasing policy that has certainly helped um to keep some of that under wrap uh one of the big things that you know we'll we'll start to make sure of is you know historically departments would get towards the end of the fiscal year and if they had um you know large balances remaining maybe spend um a little more than was necessary because the thought was well they have the money there and that's that's something I've really tried to get across going back last year and I've and and in implementing the purchasing and procurement policy really pushing forward this year that you know that that's how we fund Capital right in normal times so we want to that's not just hey you know the to allocated it so we we got to use it like that's you know so we we are we have put measures in place to try to keep better track of that the purchase orders have actually been really good it allows um us to account for that but it also allows for my eyes on it a little bit more where a lot of those larger purchases you know I wasn't seeing and making sure we were you know in budget so that's helped but we'll certainly make sure that everyone is cognizant of it and continues in that Trend right no that that's a that's a good policy to have in place you know last year we saw a few things try come in there at the last minute there that uh CU funds were available for this reason or that reason from the budget and I surely don't want to see that again this year completely agree and I guess this is more a a longer term item I guess Cody but have we thought about looking at like the the efficiency I guess of all the operations within the department is there a grant for that I guess from a consultant that does that in the public space or you know it's it's um yes so the first part of your question yes um it's a very big um you know I think even coming in one of my priorities is really to evaluate operations and identify efficiencies um and I think we've done that to an extent and there's certainly um areas for improvement even just some of the things that I've identified a lot of it really does come down to Staffing where um you know I I can present various ideas um we paired with you know technology um we can make some changes but a lot of it is it has to align right when when the Staffing you know maybe leaves that there we're not you know uh laying people off or you know having to get rid of people because a lot of it is you simp to what we kind of did with the zoning and planning is you know you had two separate positions we kind of combined those made it one position um and the efficiencies is there and so I we have some ideas for other positions it's just a matter of you know right now they're there there's somebody in them um and we would you know look to make that change when the when the position was um voluntarily vacated um and I think you know getting a lot of the things that working on online will really help us to then come in and make a fair assessment it's hard right now because we're in such a I'd consider a transition phase um with things like our new Financial software there's there's you know tons of things that I can think of just just not that uh not that it's super Innovative per se but just things that I experienced in my previous community that are just done differently but the tools were there right with the with the system and financial system so so step one of that was getting a new Financial system which we're working on that you know we're working on getting that in place and then I envisioned being able to uh Implement a lot of those efficiencies and then once we've had time to implement those efficiencies then we can look at um yeah hey do we need do we need this level of Staffing anymore or do we need this you know redundancy because there is a lot of redundancy right now in our operations uh but there needs to be because we just don't have this the system in place systems in place so that's one of them online licensing and permitting is another um big one right right now it's it's physical paper you know the people are going around um a lot of the administrative staff and are are doing uh and then you know if there's a sign off for individual departments it's it's literally a piece of paper that gets handed right to multiple departments to review it and sign off on it so uh that's in the process of being implemented and I do think that'll create efficiencies and so once those those are kind of the two big ones once those two are implemented then I think we could get a better assessment and completed I just don't know if if conducting an assessment at this point I I can kind of tell you what I what what it's going to come out with is we're doing X and Y in efficient and this would help to make it more efficient which we're in the process of doing okay so is the financial management system Cody that you're that you're moving forward with does that capture the procurement process as well or it does our current system captures it to an extent um we have we have paper purchase orders or a PDF purchase order is is how we're doing it now and then when I sign off on them um I'll CC a copy of the accounting department and then they will go in and add it to our uh accounting system or financial system but with the new system the goal is for something like that the department head or the administrative staff would actually enter it in and then there will be a workflow where it'll come to me as the procurement officer for sign off and then ultimately once I hit a sign off it'll automatically get applied to the account uh and through accounting rather than kind of the manual entry of it yeah so that's a big part of it um invoices is another thing you know right now departments they have an invoice they fill out a um a bill schedule it gets the the original invoice and the bill schedule goes to accounting where it gets you know reviewed and input um where the new system the idea is is it the the Departments will individually upload a copy actually to these software there'll be a workflow where you know the administrative staff may be the one to actually put it in they'll put in the account number in there and everything then it'll go to the department head for all through the financial system for the sign off they'll sign it off and then it'll ully virtually go over to accounting uh where they'll have everything in there and they can do their end of it um but yeah so those are kind of the two big things but then also there's other opportunities for just budgeting budgeting is another one rather than having everyone fill out the Excel sheets and paper that some departments still do department heads will have access to go in and actually input you know their FY 26 uh requests and then there'll be a workflow through that that we can go in and then at the end of the day once that's done it'll actually be we'll be able to go in and hit just approve and then that'll all be applied right to the next fiscal Year's budget rather than you know Sandy now has to go in and input all the budgets in there um so just a lot of a lot of small things like that but you know you add all those small things together it creates a lot of efficiency yeah yeah th those are great tools right there um especially dealing with budgets and dealing with um supplier vendor invoicing and going through to each department you've got that trail of it who's got it why isn't it being signed off on it's not sitting on somebody's desk um you tracking it all the way through the system you know and then it pops up and when it's supposed to be paid and then approving for pay to go out and all that those are very efficient systems yeah what what system is it is it soft R uh it's the it's Spring Brook so it's the sofr isn't being basically they're not really tending to it well they support it but they're not updating it anymore so um it's Spring Brook through cus Cloud um so it's it seems really it seems you know will'll be one of the first municipalities Massachusetts to use it which is definitely a little bit scary but they've been pretty good thus far um yeah so we're continuing that process of getting that implemented and then on the online licensing and permitting is another big one for our regulatory departments and I I actually I think a realistic uh goal is we're going to have our building department which sees the highest volume of permits implemented effective July 1st so that's a little bit a little bit sooner than the the other stuff and actually that just reminded me did we go back through and take a look at like all of our existing fees and such yes so we asked departments to do that our building our new Building Commissioner um has identified a few areas where he's going to make recommendations so he's actually uh working on a me memorandum um over the next week or so with some updated fees um that'll certainly help um he identified two or three areas where we're really lacking um but it's not not huge but again we just want to stay up to date okay all right great anything else from anyone on the uh the budget topic here no all right uh so then hearing none I guess we'll move along in the agenda here so next up was the finance committee spring conference so that's upcoming on Saturday April 6th that's going to be held at the Pine Ridge Country Club in Oxford and it's uh from 9:00 am to 1 pm uh so just wanted to get a sense of um who would like to participate in that and then we'll have to I guess I don't know no Sandy were you part of this in the past I guess you know how we registered folks I guess did we just drop an email and we registered as a group and then sent along the registration fee I guess or do you I was not part of that I'm not sure how how was done and I didn't get the the information on the conference this time so okay okay yeah so I have the the contact ladies name there so I can reach out to her I guess but I think that's how it'll probably work um I can send her an email with the list of participants uh and then she can she'll send us an invoice I guess and then um we would um you know fund it from there so there's a minim there's a nominal cost um to attend which is part of the um you know uh budgeted within the finance committee's budget there so uh if a few folks would like to attend um he certainly available to do so it's uh sounds like the um well I shared the the agenda that they um sent over but it's really largely focused on the municipal empowerment act um you know and the impacts Associated to um you know you know Municipal budgets and such so that's really going to be the the key focus of the discussion so uh is anyone interested in attending that from the finance committee or or anyone available that wants to attend and we certainly don't have to send anybody if if nobody's uh has the time or energy to to attend but certainly want to float it out there as an opportunity Todd I'm interested but I have to I have to work on scheduling conflict for that day so if you give me a week to try to work that out I can get back to you okay yeah sure no rush just just let me know EJ I guess um anyone else Cheryl were you interested I know I think you mentioned I'm scheduled to work that day oh okay okay all right so it sounds like maybe EJ and you know folks can let me know I guess if you change your mind or or if you become available when you want to attend but um EJ I guess maybe you be theot the lone participant I guess if um you know if you're available so just let me know I guess and we can kind of go from there we got it okay all right thank you so then moving on on the agenda uh Reserve fund transfers so there were no requests I guess uh Cindy are you are we expecting any in the near future that you know of I guess or I don't know of any at this time no okay at this time yeah okay thank you um all right so next on the agenda was the committee liaison updates uh there was one new addition to the Liaisons which was the appointment of Cheryl to the town accountant um interview committee I guess say any update on that I guess has that commenced or yeah when are we do we have a new date Cody yeah I had sent one out [Music] um I propose the 28th at 9:00 a. it's what Thursday let me just look at my schedule quick quick at what time 9 in the morning I can make that that's I'll send out the invite all right great and then anything else from anyone Jam Frank any other know you guys are working on the bylaws WR any movement there or anything material to to share Cody did we get a draft put together for um the NBTA oh that's the middle yeah yep okay so well that's done and off and sent on up I'm hoping to submit it tomorrow I have everything together from the consultant so it should get submitted tomorrow unfortunately initially they were talking 30 days to get a response and I was in a a meeting uh Thursday or Friday with them they're saying some sometimes are waiting as much as 90 days now yeah I had read something about that that it was going to be at least 90 to 120 days for a response back from the state regarding that so uh Ezra and we got our form filled out and sent off or going to send it us tomorrow yeah I have like a uh a document of it I just have to input it on there they have an online application portal but yeah that's okay good good all right thank you for that uh next item on the agenda was correspondence and as may arise so I haven't seen any corresponden come across has any anyone else received anything no okay uh anything for as may arise any other topics that have come up from for anyone no okay oh Todd one thing um I wanted to mention is you you may want to start uh working on the letter the finance priny letter yeah obviously you'll have to plug in numbers once we once we have them but the as we get closer here we're going to need to turn things around pretty quickly um like that that week is everything's is going to need to be um kind of one right after the other so if the school committee meets on the 1 and then hopefully we meet on the I can't remember which day you and John had talked maybe the third um well I'm going to need that information by the following Tuesday because the board has to vote the full warrant on that Tuesday the 9th and then we have to it has to go to print basically the 10th yep yeah no thanks for the reminder I'll make sure I get that over to you Cody by the end of the month um and then obviously just with the placeholder with the figures we can just I I think last year I just put them in right or whatever so we can just do the same and we can drop the figures in once once we have them but uh certainly there's no reason why we can't have the rest of the the body of the email drafted I guess being a caveat just given everything that's going on there may be some language we might want I might want to just tweak at the end I guess so um now now that I think about it I guess uh but either way I'll have a draft ready by the end of the month and then yeah maybe just a quick tweak um once all the dust settles on on the figures and everything perfect thank you uh Todd so we had a joint meeting set for the 26th with uh B of selectman yeah so that's going to change I'm G to cover that at the end Frank just with the next meeting planning but yeah everything's kind of been thrown here so yeah yeah um anything else from anyone though on the asme rise no okay uh next on the agenda then was the public participation there's a few folks I see on online anyone have anything want to cover tonight uh Gordon I see your hand up go go ahead Gordon could you guys post the spreadsheet to the Facebook I mean uh to the to your website section of what you have in the spreadsheet currently so can you just clarify I guess when you say spreadsheet which one are you referring to what you guys have for the line items for the town for the bud what's so Gordon that's not a committee thing that's just something I did that's well previously Sandy had a spreadsheet that she had for the finance committee that you guys would be running off of is that something that Cody has um so we have it it's yeah we still us kind of the same spreadsheet with a few minor changes you know it's very much I don't know that we would want to post it because it's not finalized well it's a public document because you guys are using it as the finance committee so correct yeah I mean you could submit a foure request and we can be happy to share it with you but I don't know that we want to publish that directly on the on the site it's a work in progress um it's very much you know in flight so uh we wouldn't want to post something out there and somebody you know misconstrue what's posted and and it's changing you know even some cases day by day right as we kind of go through and and make some updates we haven't voted on anything yet so really it's just a work in progress document we plan to uh to vote obviously um you know once the school budget comes in so um and then and then those figures get posted in the warrant you know as you know so I don't just don't know there's any added value in posting it but I guess Cody I'd be happy to hear your thoughts I guess on yeah we can send it to Gordon it's a yeah it's we're using it in the meeting so it's a it's a public record but I wouldn't I wouldn't post it we because like you said we don't want people to think that this is the budget uh that that we're using at this point because so many things are in influx but if if you want it Gordon shoot me an email and I'll send us here all right uh was that it Gordon anything else see still have your hand up there so just want to make sure we I guess um you guys didn't talk about an over at at all yeah so the intention is so we don't know at this point right um what that's going to look like certainly the idea and the goal um is to avoid an override at at all costs um but you know there is a potential that that we may need to go that route we just um certainly don't want to go back to the town and ask for uh you know obviously the there's a lot of sensitivity on the on the tax rate certainly and we don't want to be going out and um trying to increase taxes unless it's uh absolutely needed so that's why we were you know discussing tonight in great detail just some variables that you know of some levers that we could potentially you know pull on so we want to just make sure we understand all those and evaluate those very closely and and make a very you know educated decision and our recommendation um with with utilizing new ride as a you know last case scenario the only reason why I bring it up is because it has to go on the ballot and the town clerk would have to be aware yeah yeah and the other project you guys didn't talk about is the replacement of the water pipes and the fixtures at the elementary school that should be on your Capital plan as well and they don't have numbers for that either so yeah I'm not sure where that stands I guess I we haven't received any Capital requests from them right Cody so no speaking with the administration um last week was that last week Sandy we met over there yeah last week they they feel it's too soon to even put a request in because they just don't know what what it's going to look like they you want us to keep it on their on our radar because it is going to come up at some point but it's not something that they feel they'll may not even likely won't even have a number to request for this town meeting but it's on the radar I I have it on our internal uh the capital plan just just there I don't have a dollar value Associated because we just don't know but it is it is on the radar and on the plan Cody we're currently providing bottled water there at the school is that correct or oh cool water coolers yes y they have filling stations right and uh we get any recovery from the government on that from the federal and state level for that no are we going to approach that method because we we have we've been in contact with d unfortunately they're just really isn't there isn't really the funding out there what about with the EPA uh I'm not I'm not sure I think they've been looking at it you know I've tried to you know we this is the schools have come to us for assistance and you know we' we've been there to assist them as much as we can um but I again I I haven't been involved in the details of it I just yeah I just don't I honestly don't have the bandwidth to be involved at at that level the detailed level over there with that our team is already you know Scott Mata is already going over there every morning and doing the flushing um and you know we've like I said we've been there to support them I've gone to a few meetings with the with the water the consultant that we' brought in um but it's you know it's really this is really their project and we're there to to support them in any way we can but it's a school's project so the schools taking the lead on that yeah Yep this is this is all them they have a facilities director you know Scott has been involved much more than I have not saying I'm not involved at all but Scott's been much more involved um and like I said he's they're they're flushing part of the the um plan right now is to flush every morning and Scott's there at 5:30 every morning um flushing and they just um the head custodians also been going over there helping um they have a plan to do some filters into the um into the uh the areas that they're utilized most and particularly used you know for either food prep or you know the kitchen things like that that's the top priority they've shut off um a lot of the fixtures that you know aren't necessary aren't necess such as some of the U classroom uh water uh stations the a lot of the classrooms themselves have water stations they shut a lot of those off um it's it's just a matter of them identifying or trying to identify you know what what the long-term plan is and you know hopefully the goal would be that the the filters are adequate you know we we put these filters on um change them regularly and then we're going to continue to test those those to make sure that the filters are still adequate um again it may be it honestly may be something as simple as that it may be you know you could be talking pipe repiping the whole school at the tune of you know millions of dollars we just we just don't know but yeah this is this is a school department project they're taking the lead on it and we're there to assist them so school has consultant on board that's giving guidance to um Halifax Elementary School correct on what to do correct yep okay all right anything else from anyone for public participation all right hearing none uh we move along on the agenda the last item on the agenda was uh next meeting planning so um next meeting was scheduled for uh Monday the 25th March 25th at 6 PM I'm going to recommend we cancel that meeting um in L you know in light of all of the um you know budget issues and and and work that's going on there and and finalizing it we really don't have much to cover there um we were going to look to repurpose that meeting to um conduct the uh Capital planning meeting which was you know has also been a bit delayed for for a few different reasons so uh we're looking to uh reconvene as a um Capital planning committee there on the Monday the 25th and then um the goal would then be to meet on uh April 1 still which would be our next regularly scheduled meeting um in that session I'm not sure what we'll have for topics I guess we'll have to see what materializes between now and then um certainly it sounds like you know the school committees will be meeting that day um so we may have some information but you know I think we should just schedule that as a placeholder uh well it's already kind of scheduled but you know keep that as an air Mark um for a planned meeting and then um you know our big meeting I guess if you will would be scheduled on uh Wednesday April 3D at 6 pm and that's that would be on site uh so this would be a joint session with uh the board of Selectmen and we would um be asking the school committee to come in and present the budget so we you know go through that with them uh which I'm sure there would be a lot you know quite a bit of discussion there uh once we've finalize that portion of the meeting we would then um proceed into the line item review and approval from a fin uh finance committee perspective um and then uh then I guess you know the board of slman would probably vote subsequent to our uh recommendation um and then we would also I guess lastly probably cover in that session the capital planning uh recommendations and and get look to get approval on those as well as part of that meeting I guess did I miss anything Cody is that that really yep that yeah that sounds um that sounds all right yeah yeah okay any go ahead Cheryl no meeting on the 26 uh no yeah because that was going to be the joint meeting with the selectman so that will now be the April 3D yeah yeah is it so I guess so that's our proposed dates right I guess so does anyone have any concerns with a meeting um with the selectman on April 3D on site at 6m I'm good yeah cherl that work for you with your uh so yeah Wednesday okay Michael Jim EJ good good okay um so yeah it'll be it'll be our most important meeting of of the Year certainly right and also um I would expect it to be you know unfortunately quite long as well so I would definitely prepare for that as well um you know it's a lot it's a lot to cram into one session uh but you know we're really down to the wire so our hands are kind of tied there so it's not ideal hopefully once we get get through this year you know we can have some discussions and and you know continue to work with the school um you know to make things a little bit flow a little bit better but um this year has certainly been a been a challenge so all right so that's that's the plan so um next meeting will be April 1 on Monday our regularly scheduled finance committee meeting at 6m um some of the agenda items to be determined between now and then so we'll um you know we'll share a um preliminary agenda ahead of the meeting if folks have anything you want to add I guess if any other topics come up certainly you know send it over to me as well we can in that a in that meeting on April 1 what we could could plan to do as well is to just revisit some of the budgets and and certainly I think we'd probably look to get some additional recommendations or updates I should say updates to Cody's recommendations on on his the budgets but if there's any particular areas that folks kind of want to like review during that session then I think that would be a good opportunity to do so because it is our last uh you know group meeting if you will before we we jump into the joint um session where we look to actually finalize our recommendations so um you know which some of it may change I guess once the once the budget is kind of finalized right like that might have an effect on the budget so uh that Wednesday meeting could will be probably a bit of a working session um as well so all right any other thoughts questions concerns anyone yeah if anyone has any questions on the budget in the mean time OB you feel free to reach out to me more than happy to talk through anything or meet with anyone or whatever works and I guess Cody know sorry Cody if you get the school budget early maybe shoot that out I will shoot it out as soon as I get it although I wouldn't plan on getting it too early yeah that's not sorry I was gonna ask I guess Cody so when you have the figures for those other two requests that we had I guess so you just share those vi email I guess we have those numbers yeah okay awesome Absolutely I'll work on those this week okay yeah thank you um Kitty I see your hand up did you have an item yeah I just want to get clarification on one thing um the water situation at hes um is that money coming out of the HS budget or out of the town's budget and and at what point would it be considered a capital expense it is coming out of the HS budget um and we would have to have a project for it to be a capital expense not just an ongoing operational cost okay so in the meantime that's hitting our our bottom line okay thank you all right uh with somebody like to make a motion to adjourn so move thank you Michael second thank you Bill uh roll call vote Frank uh yes to adour please Cheryl yes Jim yes EJ yes Bill yes Michael yes and I am a yes as well uh motion carries 7 to Z meeting is adjourned at uh 7:59 thank you everyone night good night everybody good night everybody good [Music] [Music] night