##VIDEO ID:d4nd_UwyLik## recorded good morning uh meeting to order this is a meeting of the Hampton select board and the Board of Health being held in the townhouse Auditorium on December 5th 2024 the meeting has being conducted in person remotely using video conferencing technology the other Selectmen I believe are on Zoom please stand for the Pledge of [Music] Allegiance pledge of leaders liy justice for all thank you is anyone recording the meeting other than ourselves uh rivers from the wilam Hampton times good morning Kristen thank you so uh just to begin for quite some time we've been talking in the abstract about the need to address our municipal buildings in some cases they've become inadequate and too inefficient to provide the necessary required present and future services in some cases they're out of code in certain areas in some other cases the potentially unsafe working conditions exist and in yet other cases uh they need just need sprucing up and routine maintenance whatever the case the town is a responsibility to address those issues whenever there's a budget discussion or a large EXP expenditure discussion I always he or we always he remember we have these big expenses coming up coming up in my view It's A Pas time that we address these issues in some way I describe it as I describe our current situation as a state of analysis paralysis um since 22 since fy22 this town has spent $316,500 in Grants Ara town meeting Appropriations and studies building assessments consultants and Architects the result is we have lots of paper but nothing else our residents understand where the town is in regard to this uh as was demonstrate a town meeting they clearly are not willing to give out a blank check to any particular project it's clear from the town meeting discussions on the senior center in Thorton Burgess that taxpayers want and deserve answers and they want have confidence they're elected and appointed officials are presenting them with a wellth thought out reasonable sound and responsible building an affordable financial plan that will serve the towns of the need in the years to come but that said this is the first and what I hope will be several meetings focusing solely on the capital needs and utilization of our municipal building so we can present a comprehensive plan to the to the town's people it's important to know that this is is occurring in many towns particularly in Western Massachusetts I I believe I sent everyone various articles including a 2021 study by the state auditor specific to the problems with Western Massachusetts towns all of which brings us to the goal in my view the goal for these meetings will be to have a priority plan of projects figure out a timeline how to get them done and figure out a definitive reasonable affordable funding strategy for the projects uh to present the town meeting so this is the list of buildings Town building facilities uh and as you can see Academy Hall townhouse Highway garage we did some addition on that 2021 green metal school was a 2000 we did an addition there the fire station and we've done some improvements there but that was years ago thoron B's middle school Memorial Park Park the senior center and the police station give next line these are the assessed values of the buildings as you can see obviously that the schools are our most valuable assets um follow followed by the townhouse the police station and the center Fire Station Park Academy Hall Highway garage the highway garage didn't we mhm we spent more than that in the addition to the highway garage it's only worth 278,000 yeah I know we spent 600,000 on it well that's true with all the police station cost 3 million yeah you know even the senior center was two when we first built it wasn't it yeah you know so these numbers are all off anyways well there ass value Val it's the value you do my house the GU doing these assessments right it's an assess the all right go ahead not want to start the what have the overview of building assessment building assment right so this is the this is the 2020 uh assessment of the of of this the hamon fire station as we and I believe I sent you copies of this uh basically the exist up the existing conditions three different construction sites the space available is significantly less than they need one of the problems that they have obviously there is when when they dress for their to go to a fire there they don't have space in between the station the equipment and the in the walls and plus they have additional uh safety issues there and this architect came back with cost estimates ranging from on the bottom this this is this is if we this is if we did no addition we just repaired did the replacement improvements and repairs there a 2,157 this is a second second stop go back up see that this is adding this one is I believe is adding an addition and the 6 million 128 doing the repairs and adding an addition anyhow this this this a second addition on the other side is South Side than the east side or vice versa this is a full build out of an entire New Station $13 million we need it we need if we did that we'd need to buy find land to put it on that's the fire department Don question y um the um this particular report on the fire department uh from 2000 no Capital planning looked at it quite a bit and there was some serious flaws in it I know you have a construction committee now for the firehouse there's one now is there are they going down a different Road at all because like I said that one had a lot of problems with it they had bunk spaces and and a hook and ladder truck and kitchens and they had a 70 square F foot hydration room which is just a room for a bottled water it's a lot of drinking that's a lot of drinking the old days I hope they had a lot of bathrooms in there oh yeah only ,000 so is there is is there any newer information on the firehouse from the building committee is anyone from the building committee here on Zoom what I can tell you is that they've they've they retained an architect to build I believe they just want to put on one Bay okay you know do do the improve it free Bays free Bay freee Bay three new Bays yeah well tear one down make the roof larger well okay at the present time okay okay so we need some numbers on that so you don't have hopefully by Spring Town Meeting okay good and then we hire and then with that with the fire department we hired a a second uh consultant and he came back with uh anywhere from from uh 10.9 million to 17.1 million these are all estimates right not actual estimates these are estimates the estimates so and those are all preco dollars pre-o oh yeah that's true there's some inflation Factor we got an inflation Factor we thought we could do it for 2 million back in 2000 I understand why didn't do anything go ahead next one cent yeah this is the senior center feasibility study oh you stop there on that one they this particular one they were talking about 3,000 ft of additional space was needed and that range at that time was 2.9 to 3.3 million uh plus soft costs and uh I think go ahead and they need some they need some repairs over there some they need some extra space that that was uh that's 11,764 Square ft that's that's the one that they just presented to that's correct that's correct yeah and that was 5 96 million yeah the town meeting rejected 19 or I'm sorry 2025 construction cost actually estimated out at using construction cost okay oh go ahead that's that's that's the uh right 2025 construction cost 5,962 all right what else you got there townhouse townhouse the tow hous is is a mess um now talk a little bit electric rid one the chart no I want to go right there so and this P says although there's an exterior ramp at Le this is It's we have a lot of handicap accessibility problems with the with the town halls we all know and at this particular uh assessment is that it says that even if we did Renovations and did all the renovations and alterations we still wouldn't have enough space in the town hall to for the for the current offices and unless we move the library out and built a new library or um moved it someplace else go ahead and those costs they estimated those costs at that time be this is kind of on a angle here go ahead you can't s that that 7, 725,000 over the course of and that's divided up into one year you know something you have to do for this year some immediate 5ye you know 10 year 7,725 Don you adding this all up the frustrating thing about this particular one is they couldn't give a definitive opinion on anything structural it was all well we'll have to see what happens when we get into it so when we people talk about the bod wall and stuff we have really no fraking idea how big a deal that is and the consultant didn't help us answer that question I had the structural engineer come in he said it's a facade that you're looking at but it's being pushed by water from the outside which is also Bo okay so it is actually a structural issue yeah should we get her hats heart has heart has all the meetings what else you got there this is dwb oh this one you memorize this one right oh yeah so much but so we've signed we've signed the uh the agreement with the region and we we we we own CWB now but we'll have full use of it come July 1st um and this is the estimated the immediate costs are 1 million six something and the category a I believe is 5 years out 4 million category B is to so it would be a total of 9 million uh over the course of 10 I me believe 10 years now I haven't read this one at all Don is this just to bring the bill building up to the level of repair or is this involve some reconfiguration remodeling this involves reconfiguration and doing all kinds of other things that we probably wouldn't do if we just moved the town so okay so we're talking probably 1 million six to start off and probably the four what is what is that L like roof and parking lot that wouldn't even do the roof I don't think no no the roof the roof there the roof they said was uh okay okay for 5 to 10 Years yet okay wow so the biggest component here is the is the fire protection which they estimated may or may not need to be done um they did so somewhere in that study in small print they're using 2021 number construction numbers it which 2022 2022 so we're 2 years plus inflation so you got to go numbers but you know what you know what I'm surprised at is that this number isn't a lot bigger when I compare it to the townhouse number you know that really surprises me 7 million for the townhouse and what was the what was your big number there 9 million nine but nine includes a lot of remod remod without any remodeling what is it just to move in without remodeling it's probably four 4 and A2 right those number on those num yeah and one other piece of the puzzle was they didn't look at the septic system they just assumed that that system one put in has a 50-year lifespan right without doing a Title Five yeah what kind of condition that's in now got to do that that's why we've got that 100,000 from the town eating to do that that kind of stuff don't we don't have to pay right better righta yeah the most expensive item in this list here is the fire protection which um which we're in discussions with the the fire chief and the Building Commissioner about whether that's required or not it it could very well likely be that that's not required so that would drop it's that would drop that number if you're not modifying the building why would it be required why would it be grandfather change of use might might trigger something yeah I would think it would be less but not worth as much change change of use going to be because offices should be fine thing is don't have water or the water pressure for a a sprinkler system just a you don't have to do it the chief can accept alternate strategies for fire protection yeah but the trigger would be we spend a third of the cost building or put an addition on it then that would trigger it I doubt it we be putting an addition on it big the way it is take some parts out thing with Thon Burgess is that if we decide to do something with the town hall the town hall offices will have need a place to go while they're doing this massive construction and even the senior center if we do something there some of their programing may have to go there for a period of time I you know we haven't we haven't seen the spatialization for that building yet but I mean a quick look at the assessor records this building here is 7 18,000 Square ft that building's 72,000 square ft I mean even when you take out the gymnasium and the cafeteria that take in all the hallways there's a crapload of space over there it's like 50,000 not count the gymnasium yeah I would think so you can fit the town hall and the senior center in there yeah doesn't that change the game a little though with thornberg just now being in town hands I mean couldn't the town hall go to the senior center and the senior center go to Thorn Burgess with the library that's I don't think it be big enough not big enough senior big enough no your best bet for the best economy for the town would be the Town Hall in the senior center in torn burges and put the library in the Senior Center Library will sit in there too there's no room in the senior center for for a library for a library is not how much space is up here how a library now oh he's suggesting you wouldn't need an addition on that building it was repurposed in the library discuss it's interesting idea it h and it be the cheapest way out becomes Senior Center and park and W and the library cuz old people use the library like crazy around here and they love little kids so it's a win-win might even get some daycare the square foot of all three will fit in that building according to the Assessor's numbers the town hall Senior Center the library all will fit in twb don't forget we're crammed in we've got people sh jammed into space trying to scrap stuff Shear space there's TW was there it's four times the size four times the size five times the size it is but I know what we are here too school already has over we're not going to solve it right now no is they just get all these things out there go ahead just the thought that sus that that's that's the uh layout of th okay um one crazy idea I had in the shower you know I mean the the whole point the whole point of these early meetings is not to discard any ideas that's correct right to put stuff out Blue Sky not poo poo anything at all I was listening to somebody of the town meeting talking about Charter Schools you know and if we could rent the building now don't poo poo me no you didn't um no I just you know it's possible with that much space that there might be a part of the building that could be sublet to something like a charter school if we weren't using the entire building you know again it's four times the size of this um you know it's possible that you know a third of that building could be rented out for an income Source just an idea I don't know what the market is and when you do that you for a school You' have to totally close it off from the rest of the building oh outside of course to get of course yeah well it segments pretty well in half anyway right Brian want to give your thoughts on utilization of twb sure so just just by way of background the the lease Amendment with the school committee has been signed by the the board and the school committee and that lease Amendment terminates the district's possession or right to use twb as of uh June 30th 2025 right yeah the year's going to change um so at that time the district will be out and the town will be in full possession of the bill um so the question is and that's that's I think why we have this meeting is to figure out what to do with it as as we saw in the in the studies there are there are deficiencies with this building and I think everybody knows those probably better than I do um and to me there's and I'm talking about the Town Offices here to me there's there's one another option that that we haven't brought up and that is to and I'm not expressing preference either way would be to build something new right the town offices need to go somewhere the likely options seem to me to be uh renovate this building and stay here um move to Thorton Burgess or to build something new right those seem to be but and I'm talking long-term options for the town those seem to be now short term it it's my opinion that this building has such deficiencies that that really need to be that need to be addressed soon uh the biggest one being accessibility so in my mind thoron Burgess seems like whether it's a long-term solution or short-term solution it seem it it seems to be to be a good short-term solution regardless of what happens um long term and when Dom I talked about this idea um I thought it was a good idea to start the discussion um because within those options there's there's lots of of of pluses and minuses for each option um and reasonable people will disagree as to which one's the best for the town um but I agree without without starting these discussions we we're I at least feel a little bit paralyzed I don't I don't know what to do I don't know if I should be um you know finding energy contractors to go through twb and give us estimates for replacing lighting and are we looking at replacing the hbac system are we doing painting are we getting the we going through the the network and setting that up and and there's grant opportunities for there's uh you know it Grant coming up at the end of January um I don't really know how to move forward because there's all these different ideas um and even here when I first started you know when I was talking with Jane about all the deficiencies here it was well do we invest money in this building to make these repairs if we're just going to if we're just going to be moving out so I agree there's there's there's a lot of questions that need answers and and until those discussions happen it it's it's difficult to know which path to pursue or maybe we pursue multiple paths at the same time but without any sort of Direction it's hard to move forward um so so in initial discussions with with time Bond and the the consultant that's doing the space planning there is more than enough space for the library and for the town offices and for future expansion um certainly things that come to mind is Park and Rex use that you use that facility a lot especially during the winter inside and outside obviously to me it's it's our only Municipal option for large meetings for Town meetings um so those are things that that that I think about um and gosh it's single level and um my office is right at the bottom of the stairs and Jane warned me when I when I first started that the stairs are pretty tricky to navigate and I mean you hear you can hear I've never heard any I've never seen anybody fall but you can hear people as my kids would say grinding to get down the stairs right it sometime it's hard sure make the paper delivery guy happy yeah I've seen 10 since I've been here wow starting with one that were multiple broen BS nice to a concussion to um people just being shaken up by falling down the stairs 10 people yeah and I'm also very cognizant personally I don't like to spend a lot of money um so I'm very cognizant of of the costs of these um and and I I I believe that needs to be done in in an affordable way um and there's there's a lot of different demands on really these these three situations fire Senior Center and the the town offices whatever that may be townhous or twb or or a new building um and and how do we prioritize those I'm not sure but I I'm pretty certain discussions to start happening as to that's to how we go about it Gary the building committee met the other day what's they have they have a plan C um actually we're looking for a direction from the uh select board um first question that the first all the committee members agreed to stay on if the select board decided to keep us in in moving for forward given if they if you agree that uh we still have a role to play then we probably based on what we heard at town meeting would be uh looking more at renovation and um and an addition um because again as we said at town meeting renovating requires changing the internal workpace of that building and when you do that that particularly with the bathrooms you lose program space or you you lose um some of the Interior Space and so we we believe and have spoken about the need for storage um some of it may be able to long-term storage go over to twb if that's one of the options that are put forth and the committee can you know certainly talk about that but there are everyday needs for storage that can't be accommodated by just a internal Renovations as we say and a new roof um the number is 1.7 to2 um that quite frankly does not include the um outdoor Paving which was going to be portioned uh through fundraising um so that number will have to be put into the one $2 million um but again I'll reiterate I'll go back what is the select board's uh desire do they want the committee to go forward or does someone in town want to handle uh taking bids for the new roof or uh taking bids for the renovation or the HVAC system I mean that's really where we're at at this point we have a meeting schedule for Monday um but really until we hear about our position um you know we're we're sort of in limbo at this point uh if I make time yeah um would the senior center be opposed to moving into Thor Bridges full-time it would solve a lot of issues and you have more space what's money I mean we'd have to look at that we can't we can't speak to that now okay what we'd like to know is you know from I'm going to ask the question we're going to pursue Thorton Burgess as a town am I correct in saying that we don't know right now if we are or we're not that's why we're all here okay so we're kind of in flux so once we get once you get a determination that we're going to move forward with Thorton burges then at that point I think we can all have a a discussion about how to utilize thoron Burgess for all the parties involved in other words Senior Center Library and Town Hall we know I believe we know that we're not going to move the fire department there okay so really we need some positive input as to what we're going to do with the purchese and if I could just add I mean it's a good question and we would look at that certainly but understand that the seniors what they they do in that building and outside the building are are unique and so if you assign space at thoron Burgess it has to be assigned so that things like the uh suppers the $5 suppers where we have cars lined up and they need access uh we we did over 200 dinners for people um on Wednesday that meant a lot of cars going in and out and and conflict possible conflicts at twb so again I'm I'm not saying we wouldn't do that but the uniqueness of what that Center provides that building provides to try to move it into Thorn Burgess will be not just moving space well part of the spa whole Space utilization issue here is we're going to have to have zones even if we were just to move the townhouse over there we're going to have the townhouse Z the park and wreck Zone and the library Zone that all work on different schedules and probably would all have separate entrances and that's going to be have be part of the space it would just be and and I agree with you that's not a question that can be answered yet uh Peter's question but it's just one more Zone that would have to be accommodated M you know it doesn't matter either way whether you're put the addition on and res in the president Senior Center or you make the changes at thoron burges in the long run it's still going to be cheaper for the town maybe well maybe not maybe not the current the current state of the senior center as far as the town's concern is do nothing to it right now whether we agree with that or not that's what the residents voted for right it says leave it as it is do nothing I don't know what the warranty is on that roof but it's been repaired so the warranty probably doesn't that's not what I meant okay I'm I'm sorry we need that yes the roof needs to be repaired and some HVAC needs to be repaired that was what was presented to the capital committee three years ago or four years ago when I was on it yeah nothing else at that point had to be done in there other than roof and some HVAC everything else over there is niceties that the town voted down I would disagree with you about the bathroom well and I don't want to get into this at this point we're getting off track here but just so you know at some point some State officials going to do a tour of that Senior Center and those bathrooms do not comply they are they just don't comply so the alternative is to address it sooner than later before they get shut down we are getting a little into the weeds and like understand as as I as I said earlier nothing should be off the table this early in this group's meetings I totally agree is uh board member Flynn is on do you have any comments you unmuted thanks Don uh first off I thank you everybody for coming to this as Don said this is a kickoff meeting all suggestions are welcome but I I appreciate what Don said before that we got to look long range here you look at the fact you talk about thoron burges being much bigger than the town hall yes but the town hall could use 30% more space right now yeah and then you talk about zones and that was a great suggestion but I've said before you look at the zones they have at the wam Town Hall where they have all the building and planning put together that's an organization that could be better better used as well Peter those are good points you bring up but I go back to the fact we built the senior center and it's well positioned and well used right now why would we abandon that building we're not going to well to renovate it to be a library I think would be more cost but this is stuff that has to be flushed out all ideas are welcome right now and then you put them up on the board and you you know you grade them all you put points to them and say what works out the best again this isn't the first meeting Don I think Don planned on having this meeting every day for two hours I did um another question question that will obviously have to be addressed at some point is this building I mean there's three easy choices you know fix it sell it or tear it down and at some point we're going to have to approach that issue I don't know if there's any market for this place if sell is an option yeah or you know and I certainly don't want to see us maintaining another white elephant we don't need we can't afford to to keep this place up if we're not utilizing it or if it's not required for our needs so that's something we're have to face I would think if you would ask a realator for some options that a developer would come in here and turn this place into about a 10 unit condominium or something in a heartbeat think so well to that point dad to that point another thing might be if you go back to what Brian said before his third option build new maybe it's worth getting a a quick appraisal of the value of thoron Buress to somebody that gives you some money in the bank for acquiring land and building new that's true if you go with option three you can't keep Thon Burgess you need capital in that building you know you're right John if there was an a butter that had a lot of money in their pocket maybe we could sell it for a stupid amount and build new do they have gol C sir if I can ask are are you still on the utilization okay so let's try and get back to that if we a little bit cuz you got you're going to have open discussion coming up and where let's go we're on open discussion we got on open discussion so we're done with utilization okay okay all right I think we've I think we've had heard a lot of ideas already so anyone else have anything to want to add I mean we have a deadline to this July 1st wasn't it yeah is that is what July what deadline for what for what are we going to have a decision by at what point well if you need funding you need town you need to go to town meeting right so there's your dead so you would have to have some kind of plan if we're going to do something next year to present it annual we're going to need some kind of plan even if it's simply doing something with Lauren burish to start moving Town Offices over there you know and then right and the only reason I'm asking is boiler system and you know all the issues that I either have to spend money or yeah yeah we're in trouble so um if we're going to go on the Assumption of utilizing Thorton Burgess um when is the we allocated some monies to look at Thorton Burg probably the mechanical side and some of the if there's abatements or whatever has to be done on when do we propose to at least start you know to at least Brian get Brian going saying that you know what's the heating what's the HVAC can we get a contractor in to give us a evaluation of that can we so what's the and I'm asking Brian's thoughts your thoughts so so currently the timeline is that the all of the wilham regional Hampton wilham Regional School District offices will be out of there by February 1st February 1st and they'll give we they'll give us access to the building okay um we'll take over the building totally on July first right so we could begin doing some things we could start those studies at 100,000 now doing some things maybe see if we can get done with any pot of money that's there we have that money we have 50 $1,000 in um that the town appropriated for school maintenance uh we could use to do some things there so you know and then we would go to the town meeting I think the our thought would be we would go to the town meeting with a plan that we for cost of moving and and that type of stuff and and you know probably would happen in September if we could get everything moving quickly to move to town office or some of the Town Offices at least over there so do we have a whole it thing as well to do and you know right so do we have a plan as to who we want to give that I'm saying give the 100,000 to it first uh HVAC yeah Brian that's has hasmat yeah yeah yep there's hazardous bu materials assessment um but that's that all is in place now correct we have the hazard evaluation of building has to be done that had been done years ago yeah I think it's done in this study here it's now it's now it's removing it it's tile it's floor tiles is what it really is okay some stuff on the why but those don't have to be removed unless there's correct they don't that's that's a cost if it was to be it's it's like the walls in the in the cafetorium there there there's a spus there but it's all encapsulated that way for 20 years right right and as long as we don't tear it up right exactly so there that and the hbac should be working now because we've been paying money to maintain that building all along the HVAC is is all it's it's just in the offices and there's some Mini Splits there's some splits there's some window the whole thing is in air condition that's what never had H when I went there fers and boilers are good great shape there no but I have it in my office now those are some of the where we're going to spend our 100,000 um getting those evaluated and then we can go to town meeting and say that this is how much we're going to need right to at least move us in to move us in to fix what's deficient and and the voters are going to want an integrated plan what's happening to this building what you know what what what's Downstream or Upstream for the firehouse and the Senior Center they're going to want a grand plan and you know Don you said early in the meeting that we've been kicking the can around for a long time and it's true but we've been kicking the can around because we've been waiting for the school committee to make a decision yeah now it's time they made it we caught the the dog caught the car now what do we do with it good point good point John one of the things that and Brian I think we have lots of electricians and plumbers and hbac people in this town who give us some idea of what we would need to spend on on these things I don't know whether that we have that without without going out to bid can't for a while it's true we might have some local resources that would help yeah because Brian's their hands are tied right now what to do I don't see why we start at least that and get some people going I think one of the things you need to do and I was a year ago I was involved with a project down in in uh in Georgia going into a new million dollars or a million square foot facility and the hardest thing I had to do was to lay out the offices because no body could give me a list of names as who needs an office so what I would suggest is you have the drawing over there of the current twv somewhere along the line by each one of the little boxes pencil in names here's Don or departments at least here our names here's here's the uh town clerk here's the library put a name by each one of those boxes and when you look at that you'll have much clearer idea what to do you need storage areas well you don't need maybe you don't need any hpac in the storage areas you need heating so the PIP Stone freeze has any of that been done to this point we have that to look at um so um we have a draft of that and then we have um a draft from uh so as part of the spatial planning analysis we received a draft back from Ty and bond that's been sent to the the board for review and comments so that should be that should that should be available in relatively short order because I think that would answer a whole lot of the questions as far as is there enough space for Library I mean how much space was put in for them how much is here how much here some of the some of the some of the space con constraints at the senior center maybe some of these occasional programs since there is plenty of space could be utilized over there maybe a room for the guy comes in and does the foot just set one room aside over there for that they come in and and do manicures or whatever there was about six things I saw on that were occasional one shot a month deals have those done over there set aside a room for storages some stuff been clutter that they don't use on a regular basis or once a month type stuff so you those kind of rooms but without seeing the names on there most of this discussion probably don't even need to take place I mean I struggled six months trying to get a layout from the people because I was working for another company I kept saying don't you even have an employee list and know how many people are working for you and it didn't even seem like they knew how many people work for which may be the case with you paycheck I think what we have to do before we do any of this is we have to assess both of these sites when I say both twb and the townhouse Peter made a comment about the the septic over at twb which apparently hasn't been looked at in the course of these various studies the the issue of septic here in a twb as well as water here in AWB um are going to be limit or potentially limiting factors in what we can do with those either one of the properties so we start with that as a foundational issue you know what do we actually have to work with and then taken off of of thads we essentially do a functional analysis what is it that we need now when you think about twb we need the we need the the cafetorium for town meeting we need the gym for for Park and wreck um you know and you can do that with each department what is it that we actually need a functional analysis you got the library and then we and then we take you know the functions that we need to meet and we look at our facilities and we say okay here's what we can do and you know that that will narrow down the range of potential options that we have this still going to be decisions that are made in terms of the big decisions about you know do we keep or do we let go and those kind of things but but until we actually have the the parameters of what we have available I don't think we can we can make an informed decision about any of these properties but if you if you want you put a name by each box I don't personally I can't imagine any kind of building modifications needing to be done over there here's the the one problem that popped into my head and I wasn't in the shower is that if you want to use the space all it take your time guys I'll be done in a minute sorry go ahead if you want you cuz I want to hear your input if so these classrooms are what 30 by3 or something like that whatever the heck they are and if we use if if our goal is to do the least amount of building modifications we're going to use more space yeah than if we spend a little bit of money of modifying I mean sure okay I'll the treasures office is now this 30x30 room yeah that has two people in it but you got plenty of space for your file cabinets and everything but if with the right Furnishings or cubicles or partitions you would use a lot less of that space and more space would be available so if we want to get in there on the cheap we're going to waste a lot of space and we have there's a priority decision that needs to be made there I don't think it's one way obviously or the other um you know obviously all these offices are much smaller than any one of those classrooms so do you put three different offices in the same room you know or with um enough partitioning to make it work but here we don't even have all our stuff in one room I understand you know so could we use a 30 by3 that's what I'm saying you probably could I mean you know there are obviously places that we really need absolutely absolutely but I'm just saying that to get in there cheap will waste a lot of space and if that if we have the space to waste that's fine right exactly but that's a decision that we have to make in when we do the utilization I think if you look at the space realizing that yeah okay we'll put you in this room it's it's twice as big as you need just have that notation so as you say down the road or before you enter we got we need some more space for this department and we know we can take 50% of your space and put a wall in there yeah but if we don't need to put the the wall in there we leave you with the space Maybe put a pool table so direct come over the senior s can come over and play pool be distracting with I think when you're given a space you grow into the space you never go down oh that's not true that's not true that's called lean management that's something that government doesn't get involved with lean management but that is a whole science out there that does I believe it but you're both right you know organically everything grows unless something limits it exactly you know and we don't have fat in here to limit us oh God I'm retiring it's okay that's what I've done that's what I've done for 20 years no funding yeah what about it where we going to get the dough from the taxpayers where do we always get the dough how much is the Bigg question the money that that the that town meeting has given the town to spend on this the first thing I think Doug is right that the water and and septic has to be proven to be big enough and in good enough condition for us to move there I mean yeah we're all sitting here talking about office space when well you got to start off with the premise though that that septic system and that water was good enough for was good enough for 600 people exactly we have to verify it but we have to we have to look if it's I mean condition that's in but it's certainly big enough everything there was built for a whole lot more people than we're ever going to have in there that would be big enough the Town Halls not it's broke you got to fix it job is that they have to certify the water and the septic system is pumped every year and including the the grease pits they are they have a phenomenal schedule and adhere to it all right good well that shouldn't be a problem but check it yeah whoever does whoever does that and pumps it now can give you a certificate real easy well he needs to be licensed you know I mean he's got to be a Title Five inspector they're using Billy ain't they you mean you mean I can't go just go over there and say it's okay you can if you want pull the covers go for it don't bring your lunch we have officers insurance right in case you get sued inity we got Indemnity it's a well yes but it's a public it's considered it's already it already goes through testing but the other thing to consider with that public M Supply there are three well heads on the property and I found some regulations a while back that were like you can do basically nothing within 200t of those well heads and then it's it's also limited 4 ft outside of those well heads restrictions as well so yeah it's all iwpa yeah problem so this is what I so next steps this is what I got we need to look at the septic and water first of all we have to decide septic in water we need to do a spatial or function plan something like that you writing this down yep because I'll be calling you tomorrow morning to see how how you've done two this morning two in the morning sleeping I held back this morning at 4:30 when I was on my bicycle sh I was up okay see he was up so septic water spatial uh Senior Center building committee them continue right talk to selectman about that uh and uh they got functioning John uh ly do you have anything to add no I think that's a good Next Step um again knowing what we're dealing with is the key part right there you know we got to have all the facts in front of us before we can really make a decision okay uh so dat to next meeting couple of weeks a month Christmas is here you know soid makes it hard yeah I would recommend evening so more people within town can put in more input on these projects I I think right now I would recommend no on that right now I think you've got a group of people that we need to f one of the reasons I wanted to have it in the morning as I knew that people who work for the town could could you know so I I think once you once you finalize the spatial analysis and things of that you can move to the evening we'll we'll have something to present correct and Thursdays are great Tuesday and Thursdays are good for you t a week Tuesday and Thursday t I won't have any after the first of the year whenever you I mean right cuz we got we got Christmas and everything coming up so okay I have I have nothing else anyone else anything to add you want to do uh January J yeah okay if you don't mind no I don't mind I anything to get me out of the house let's can you do my driveway or yeah how about uh Thursday the 4th of January January no looking at I'm looking at 24 go one more week the 7th either Tuesday the 7th or Thursday the 9th Tuesday the 7th gotcha right same time all right thank you very much I I feel it was very productive and I think it's it's a good start where we need to go done adjourn what yeah a second all in favor I okay thank you I didn't know what origin