##VIDEO ID:g4TbewbEETE## three continuance um introduction of the planning board members Madison Pixley chair Christina bror Pat coin David deers and John Matthews John Matthews wasn't present for the original app assign a mullen's role I have um watched the excuse me watched the um tap or recording on YouTube okay and um I've also vied great some of the minutes that were pertinent to it great thank you I'm going to sign this document now yep okaye statement of authority the planning board is established under CH 48 of the general laws of Massachusetts and acts in compliance with chapter 48 under the zoning bylaws of the town of hamen chapter 41 governing the submission and approval of plots of proposed subdivisions and the rules and regulations govering the subdivision of land and hamon Massachusetts legal notice sub hamon planning board will hold a public hearing on Wednesday July 26th 2023 at 6:45 p.m. in the townhouse 625 Main Street h mass on the application of all gram of gram construction for a special permit under section 7.54 of the handon zoning bylaw for a common driveway to provide access to three adjoining Lots owned by the applicant located in Highland Circ and South mson Road Lots 45 46 and 47 information related to this application is on file in the town clerk's office and is available for review by the public during normal business hours for the board Mass pix the chair hand and planning board published in the willham hamon times July 6th and July 13 2023 so I I think where we left it was that you're waiting for drainage report yes where you guys at with that 90% done 90% didn't you get anything from who's doing it um uh she kept saying Bob Bob Bob who though I don't know Bob it doesn't matter commic engineering company and Bob Bob what's his name to he's doing the cafarelli cafarelli yes what's what's the name the woman who works with him I forget I don't know I just know Bob cafarelli they did all the um septic test on is already done just doing the design it's about 90% done now okay I would think I don't know what the next meeting day is going to be but by that time they should be ready okay so we have to sign a continuance um give St no that your wife said I would have it but I don't but I sent him a cop I did send her a copy of tyan Bon's peer review and everything in there that related is required in that drainage I think that's what they were working at finalizing so it needed soil calculations the drain all of that that was in the perest okay so when do you think we should continue it to what your dates I'm not sure we only have two left um January to be next year I'm kind of serious well tan Bon has to still riew it all oh yeah so we should go a little further right well we only have two meetings left I know of this year right that's what I'm saying I was serious with January yeah I'm I think you're right yeah January or February I mean we don't I just I just hate for you have to come back if you have keep I don't care I 100 times I know I know February we're almost there all right let's do February 8th exct he not far away oh not February 8th February 12th February 12th put it in can you just the only problem is um when you sign it I'll have to give you I'll mail you one because she knows exactly okay what time same time 6:30 please okay perfectace so even though we're meeting February 12th I should have it emailed can they PDF it to me yes sure okay everything should be able to be electronic down we ready for a motion or do I'm okay I'm okay um I move that we continue public hearing case 2023 D to February 12th 2025 at 6:30 pm I'll second that favor you next year oh okay you'll be good okay with the cane again the other this one have next time have no choice ladies and gentlemen have a good evening do I have to sign the continuance first oh yeah he has to sign yes please have it John then a motion to I'll have to sign it and then she drop oh yeah continue St behind here too long M me carry you out of here don't tell [Music] me that right first one Sherry hil's pulling the anr and she's so that's why I didn't do anything other than give you the parcel of land but only 047 not 048 yeah I didn't bother cuz things have changed I just wanted you to see where the land was got it right because everything's changed all right uh we're gonna open our regular planning board meeting 636 October 23rd 2024 our where's the first order of business um a CH Land Trust hi so um I was here before to kind of show you the original plan and um since we've purchased the whole land and all the junk is cleared out and we've had a lot of people in to look at it and give us different opinions so that my head is spinning um I the original plan um that we showed had a 2.1 acre lot um and we would have to cut in a driveway to do it uh and level out the land to make a parking area and we did have a we uh did negotiate a trade with the abutter so uh we are donating some of our land so that we can go right from that parking area right back into Mount Vision so so that agreement was reached but then when we had various real tourism developers in looking at the land they said you know your plan really doesn't make a lot of sense for a lot of reasons because there's if people who are familiar with it there's two driveways going into the property so we were going to have in order to get the 200 foot Frontage um both driveways we're going to go into um what we called lot a um which can they look at those extra ones okay so so they get an idea yeah so these are are the newer ones you have the old one you have the old original I think oh no that's the newer one the one okay we have a whole bunch of copies that we can give for every anybody I'm leaving any so so basically what a lot of people said is the lot that we were going to sell that was like 2. five acres and now on this planet it's down to 2.3 Acres um selling it would be a slightly harder sell because of the slope of the land so that a smaller house would have to go in um and that the land that would make more sense to build on was the other piece of land where we were going to do a parking area because somebody who builds a new house nine times out of 10 wants to put in a really big house and they don't want to be limited by the slope and the lot size and um the other so you know we thought oh that's a great idea and so we drew up and we talked with the ab butter and said you know I think we're going to switch it around and we'll have to go before the Selectmen and everything like that to make sure that you know but they would be sort of equivalent in terms of the appraise value and wouldn't really change that much um the CPA thing basically just describes a parcel and doesn't really have a deed or a plan um just sort of has a rough draft so we felt well maybe this will work but um we didn't realize we sort of thought in our mind that the when we drew out this lot that it would include that second driveway and because it doesn't include that second driveway that kind of mck things up in terms of it being a more sailable lot that kind of flips things back and to put in a driveway here just because when you say here are you talking lot a Jerry right there's already there are already in lot a there are already two driveways that go in what we were hoping was to be able to get to talk to you is if it was possible to get a variance so that we could have the driveway going each lot would have its own driveway because the driveway areas are flatter there's more visibility from the road it makes it a more sellable easier lot and this would make a much easier lot for us to use as a parking area because it's already sort of level there so you know you may say no and then we'll go back to our original plan so you want the driveway for Lot B to go through lot a is that what I well yeah we kind of wanted to change the boundar so that that that but in trying to do it we would be short about 35 ft of the frontage now we'd have more than enough acreage because it's the 1.5 Acres so we we'd have over two acres but um we would um we would have less Frontage now it's not going to be used as a building lot it's going to basically be used as open space and parking but um you know so so if there was a variance it obviously makes it less expensive for the land trust because you don't have to put driveways and grade things and and it's kind of a a nicer uh approach but you know is there a driveway already there ma'am there are two driveways going in and one cuts through the other one well not really both driveways right now are going into lot a and originally we were going to sell lot a and retain Lot B um and this is the newer plan because our our older plan yeah I remember it yeah you remember the rer plan was a little bit narrower um and we were going to do that and both driveways were going to go in here and we would have had to cut our own driveway in there and also grade it because it kind of slopes up um but you know then various children developers went in there and said this doesn't make sense why are you doing it this way and I I said I don't know this seemed like the lot to do it because it was closer and um this is the previous plan but this plan newer plan we thought when we were cutting the newer plan that would include the driveway um so Dan just sort of Drew it up and I said does that include the driveway he said I'm not really sure but I don't have time to measure it out before the planning board meeting so I went there yesterday and I measured it out and realized no it's not going to include the driveway so then I said well I guess we're going to have to go back to the original plan and then somebody said to mewell you should go before the planning board because sometimes they'll give you a variance so I said you know I just want to think about things before we make any decisions so I don't think John correct me if I'm wrong I think it would be zba you are correct providing the variance not us yeah we we can't give you a variance on the driveway okay okay so what your proposing is if you would driveways one that would come across here here yep and the existing one that's correct into there this existing one would serve lock a which is going to be your parking area if it's approved yeah yeah and the second one would be going to be which you plan on selling somebody would be developing it yes yeah so we don't have any jurisdiction to enable um a variance okay like you're asking so you would propose this to zba okay zba would and I can't speak to them but they they have some criteria that they would judge this on okay so one question it's not a building lot yet right it is not a building does that work with you're see the thing is that we have to have it appraised as a building lot because it's the only way we could fund this thing and and yeah so I think from I wish I wish we didn't have to we tried very hard to just buy a small piece and that didn't work so we ended up having to go into debt and buy the whole thing and now we are all totally stressed out so when I when I say this okay um and I believe we could approve the a anr yes but this isn't that's all we can do right okay okay so then so so so then we are going to go before the we'll talk about it and talk about going before the zoning board of appeals and then come back yeah um okay I mean because we just don't even know how to divide it now I mean there's you know 10 different opinions on on how we should go forward right now and um so zba may not hear that and I I might be wrong but because you don't have an approved plan so your anr is not approved yet so if we had an anr approved then they could then they then they can make a more definitive de uh decision so if they don't make that decision then can we switch up the whole anr because we have we have we have all the signatures and we have everything um for this plan but it's it's short on the driveway well yeah you're not showing the driveway yeah so this so which one that that your old plan yeah so if this got approved as an anr and then they said no we're not going to give you a variance then can we just undo the whole thing and come back with a totally new plan yes sure okay yes yeah you're not um so the gentleman behind you is coming back for a revision on the okay so yeah you you can come back you can definitely come back and have a whole new plan yes you're not bound to this okay so we're not going to we don't have to go to the registry of deeds or anything ahead of time all we need is your sign on this correct okay now which plan do you want us to sign well this is the only one this is the only um my okay so and this is the new one these are all the new okay one is I'm sorry I only got a signature from Mary Mary I need a application from the land right right and a check for $50 because originally she was gonna she was going to pull this and not do this tonight long ago actually and this [Music] is do we need another one from yes and I have it right up the street back that's up to the chair I can't yes or no but I have the check application minutes we can't wait five we move on to our [Music] next pretty much that person buys the land right so do we have a myar and three paper copies is it the one you gave me here's one Pap that I gave back to you we need a myar in three paper how many copies March 15 these all the same ones because we had yeah that's that's what you just gave can we have your March 15th too 15 March 15 March both perfect it's notail well it should be on it we can note it um the it does meet the requirements exactly so I would why do we have to note it it meets the requirements that that lot it a way and it's an approved way um and you have I think 200 ft of front which if you understand what I'm saying y so the be considered a and if they're using it toell it so it should be it would be eventually wanted to say not a building not building right you come back and it um it wouldn't have to say that on the it's conforming it's a conforming lot they I thought she me I thought she needed a variance on forget it no she needs a variance forming we don't need to say not a building for Drive you'll need the variance for two driveways on one lot one is going to service another lot so and it's not a true in a true sense it's not a common driveway no no okay that's so curb cut two curb cut two curb cut common is split and that's why you got to go to right all right at me I'm thinking does Highway have to I mean when you're putting two curb Cuts within one lot do they get involved they would yep at what point so at one point after because I'm zba so I'm wondering what we do after zba says it's okay then you would go to Mark or the building inspector either one well he'll wouldn't that happen when they go to actually pull a permit to build the house though there's two there's one one that yeah when they go to build the house yeah you're right but they can do both of them at the same time that's what I was thinking like they wouldn't have to get DPW involved with the curb cut until they were ready to build the house and pull permit for that correct but they can do both at the same time too um and that way it would be uh whatever however they want to do it how the land trust would like to do it um either way is legitimate okay um David did you want to go yeah I was just waking sure that you you're good sorry say happy [Music] birthday just leave it Dave I'll get it go don't worry about it thank you all right um so we'll pause on number one and we'll go to anr for rear Mill roading an anr previously 925 yeah we're looking at a new anr for you yes okay I BR the old one I don't know if you want to see it or not but huh I don't remember okay this is the all right so what are we doing what are we changing um just changing the line that we added the Connecticut fellow planner that we leave um enough area there other back in case it was ever sold at a future date okay this is the first so in other words access to I'm going to say parcel a uh would be accessed through that 60 ft yeah it would have potential I mean access this is the old yes so what I'm asking you though what you're saying to me is access to parcel a yes is going to come [Music] through yes it doesn't now but it could okay right I understand it doesn't but joh here's original plan yeah I remember yes I'm okay this I'm looking at the new plan and um so as far as hamen is concerned um parcel B and parcel a are the only ones in question because East Long Meadow you've got that ohe I'm going to say that parcel has Frontage on Summers Road and yeah no change there's no change to to the east met lot it's just the dividing line of the hamon partial yep so ad yeah so what what your surveyor said was you would not be able to gain access to parcel a through Connecticut yes you okay great everybody good with that okay that we Endor the anr for arle 01300 re rear Mill Road for um Russell and Ryan Morton did say did you give a date of the plan oh revised anr dated October 21st 2024 yes second that 21st do you have the mil yeah it's right here sorry I have so many hang on the old one you the old one's the folded one yes that's my St C thank you there you go thank you okay um thank you okay Motion Set okay is any here oh yeah now he wants to discuss yep yep you want to discuss correct okay what do you got last um are are you guys oh you do you have a map or any I gave them a map of it yes to show them the parcel um so as you see it's approximately a 40 acre parcel and the access is through East Long Meadow so the old far Forbes Garden Center um it was part of it it was actually it has access through BR bramer drive and anley drive and um Ansley was the first name the like BB's grandfather so he's the one that subdivided the land he left the three accesses um so I've spoken with the town of East Long Meadow planning director Rob wo and um he basically directed me to the fire and the DPW so I spoke to the um um fire um dor Brian dupa and he said basically it's a Town Road in eong Meadow up to where the driveway would start so he said that they never go on any driveways so it could be a standard driveway with possibly um they don't actually pull the fire trucks in there so I'm just trying to kind of jump ahead because those are probably some of the questions you know who's going to provide Services um such as that so and on the DPW they don't allow any um water or sewer hook up but I kind of knew that I planned [Music] on planner in East Long Meadow said that he would consider the handon regulations to kind of trump East Long Meadow so the parcel is totally inhan yeah you can kind of follow where I'm going it has 60 ft of Frontage in three locations um what what I'm seeking is access for um the parcel is going to be used for Agricultural and um but there has to be a caretaker's residence there which could be as simple as um a kitchen and a bathroom in a section of a barn it could be a you know like a tiny house on the property or you know just an average small house right um so I guess I'm just kind of asking the directions from the planning board if you would accept that what East long was saying and use your regulations um uh I think the the 60 foot of Frontage there's 40 acres here I think that would qualify for work an State lot yeah you need 8 Aces you have to be um I know a little bit about the estate lots and um you know I think it meets the it does Parts is 40 acres there's quite a bit of um Frontage on the scantic river but there would be no disturbance within the repairing Zone which is s that 200 foot protected area or if if there was any we would follow you know town and D regulation for that so I it's kind of a a quagmire of a piece of property so I'm just trying to start here okay so um the section is in Hampton um that if you will I I I drove down through there okay so I'm familiar with the area there's a there's actually a um in East Long Meadow there's actually a um pumping station I believe on yes there is on one of the accesses which wouldn't be used because there's it's very like there's a wetland sale through there right behind that so we wouldn't right ask for any use of that one I I think it's on the end of Glenn Heather drive or something yeah one of those yeah sort of East metal streets it is you're right it is a East M Street streets so what you're asking is to do some development for agricultural on The Limited Industrial Area it was pre um obviously it was part of forbes's farm going back to amsley and and I I personally farmed the land when Fred was in charge of the land even though his Bruce uh his brother Bruce out of out of the area um you know I've farmed it before it's become dormant for the last 20 30 years and you would want was in 61a at one time yeah okay you wanted and you would want to gain access on one of those two yeah yeah not the 60 feet that we just not nothing would be done on where the pumping station is we don't need the pumping station I understand you know turus and yeah you know Wells so so we're not asking for water I mean the only thing would they would we would get electrical from those off of those Street yes yeah um and that's up to the power company right the question I have is is building a caretakers structure MH that's the question I have and I am not sure about how that would work because right now to build a structure there you have no Frontage on a hamton street yeah that's why I explored that with the Eon metal planning director and he said he would consider your rules which are 60 feet of Frontage for an estate lot if it qualifies for that correct but the frontage you don't have any Frontage in hampen um that's true so that our our bylaw for the 60 feet and 8 Acres because it has the front on a hampen street if you will um so that's why I explored the um fire and um DPW Services um because they they there would be no plowing for them right but you know no no no on them and it wouldn't be any um request for for handen services so the question yeah so it comes down to a couple of questions I guess is if there was an emergency call right how do they get to it it's it's in hamon they're be quicker probably depending on the response time which I can't predict right I mean miles from the fire station it's probably closer to East Long Meadow it's probably maybe similar I I don't know if five so action ambulance in hamon pardon action ambulance is on m road we know that right okay but the fire department is further away you were building a structure in hamen would East Long Meadow and East Long Meadow's fire department is right up the road that's why I spoke with today sure and would they um if there was a problem yes they said they would so there's some issues that I think we need to get okay nailed down okay um that we have an idea what you what you want to do you want to put you want to do agricultural correct you want to do a structure there um in hamen but there's no Frontage on any hamen street so right now for our book it's not allowed you know what I'm saying it might be under an accessory use for an Agricultural yeah I I don't know much about the accessory Ro and that's what I'm not 100% sure what I've been told though if you have a parcel um it's a state or federal law that you have to allow a person to build on it if it meets the town requirements and the frontage requir and these are from this East Long meal planning director he said that they would I don't know if this would be the right word defer to the hamon regulations right which state 60 feet he because he's considering that a 60 foot wide Frontage yeah on those uh accesses that touch that par you know like I said originally it's kind of a quagmire of a laot but I think the laws that I've been told by um not only the planning director but an attorney that it would re um and I guess it's going back to Simply as to do agriculture on a piece like that if you don't have someone there you're just looking asking for you know you know it could be as simple as vandalism or beft or I mean what and I'm GNA ask what kind of Agriculture would it be cows or plant oh no plants plants yeah okay um so that's something we would have to speak to I I would I would have [Music] to myself I'm saying I think I would go to town counil and see but I think what's a bigger thing that if if they say yeah then the bigger bigger meaning Our Town Council okay but if our Town Council says yes I think then an agreement needs to be in place between East Long medal's Town Administrator and Our Town Administrator signed off by you know both I agree okay I mean I I'm I'm looking for how to do this that's mainly what he suggested okay so and I spoke with him at length okay it wasn't just a yep 15 minute phone call no problem yeah and I understand um I think we' need you know a little bit more you know of a um a plot plan to look at and and to really not right now right I could I could put together a generic I mean you could take what you gave us tonight and draw some stuff you know I mean basic basically it would be a town map showing sure access and Y I mean this one and and I'm familiar because um like I said I I drove by one day down through Summers Road in East Long Meadow yeah and you know I always wondered what was going to go on at forbes's Garden Center and the next time I drove it was gone and mow down so then then all of a sudden you came with a anr last meeting and I'm saying I wonder what's going on so anyways that's my questions yeah yeah when was it a well that has really nothing to do with this no but it does abut it would abut partially I think some of your property which you showed us on that that's correct yeah what was on the an anr yeah yes but yes that's but this is a separate matter the anr would be below this what you're asking us here right I believe go go ahead Madison when was it Forbes Garden Center oh like a long time ago I was just wondering how they how was access yeah it was a long it was quite a while ago the access to Forbes Garden Center was right on Summers Road okay they had green houses and stuff there at one time okay so those are all gone everything the house that was there is gone too so yeah okay so I think what we need to do let do send a letter off to Our Town Council okay okay um asking for a little inut um want to put a structure blah blah blah and and I think we got a little idea and basically at this point it's probably just a barn with a what would be called a caretaker's residence y yeah in other words a small you'd have to like you said you're familiar with you got to have water so you'd probably yeah drill well yeah exactly and and a septic and exactly you know it might be a one bedroom or something like that well I think the minimum is two I mean the town that would have to get I think the minimum is two bedroomroom and and even that you have to get a variance for I think yeah I don't know I that's we we're way ahead of the game right now yeah yes okay does that sound reasonable yeah does it make sense I think we should talk to Town Administrator about reaching out to Town Council before yeah we will that's you're right Madison that might I couldn't quite hear all that we have to talk to Town Administrator before we asked Town Council Town Administrator in East Long Meadow Our Town Administrator before in hamon first yeah we would we would go to the town ad Our Town Administrator first let them know what's going on let him know what's going on and um if we need to speak to town councel he may have a he does have a a degree in law okay so he may be able counil yes I hope so Adat Town Administrator I'm sorry to and the Town Administrator may say go to Town Council okay okay I'm getting ahead of myself just I want to meet a couple new lawyers haven't had more 100 already there's more that everybody's a lawyer [Music] okay okay good but that's why I kind of came here and tried to get a few questions answered East Long meow we will um because you got to look at it at both sides if someone was coming from there and you know it's a little you know leeway in some of the so I mean from the East Long Meadow side I don't know you know I'm going to say there would be an increase in traffic possibly not a lot but there would be yeah wouldn't affect handon though no no it won't increase in traffic for one residence right for one residence but then again increase if we're if we're doing uh if we're doing agricultural you know and it's let's say vegetables so if you're got to move them somewhere that's true so there's also yeah well my helicopter or boat up the river uptic I'm not sure yeah the concom will allow a boat up there but okay anyways I don't SC any I went down in a boat a few months ago okay it's now viable all right well yeah well yeah I think it would be easier accessing and getting some type of agreement that with East Long Meadow that really puts I don't see any problems in hampen from fire that's the question that needs to get answered yeah that's why I did speak with the he fire team yeah and again would he Ser would they serve and it has to be an agreed to yeah because they're not going to get any tax value out of it e long met no no so they're GNA but they're not providing anything well they would provide Emergency Services too well I mean the way I look at Emergency Services if my house was in fire I'd call both because I live on Mill Road I'd call both East Long Meadow and hamon just to see who got there first not to see but to get whoever could get there first you know I think anyone in that area would be foolish not to yeah that's okay um okay all right good so I will just kind of check with Joan and see how how soon it gets to the administrator and yeah then I might have you're you're at of time right now okay right now it's busy time in Hampton right now I mean you got um a lot of things happening if you will Russ uh you know down meetings coming up right a bunch of stuff so right okay do you think thought you could send a note to us about just what your the intent is for the lot so we that's what we can share with Town Council me formal letter I mean yeah formal informal email the planning board sure can be handwritten I think we'd prefer it to be typed but oh any wayil email or whatever okay I'll get it to Joanne would that be my contact ver please do yes okay and then when when you're saying should I make an appointment for the next next meeting or what well we'll let the Town Administrator review it and see if we go to Town Council and then we'll get in contact right we are yeah I'm not lying we're busy so we'll be we'll be back in touch with you okay it might be a while what I have your number memorized my my son says that when I babysit and I'm eight hours later I'm thinking he's going to get here I'm going to tell you what it'll be longer than 8 hours okay um and I can't tell you because again um I we can't commit to anything the Town Administrator is open all the time right but he's busy too if I get something to Joan and then I can get on his busy schedule his schedule that's up to him okay okay great I will proceed with that all right it may go to Town Council okay he may just say something to of course I have to talk to the first lawyer and then the second lawyer and actually I couldn't find the check so I wrote my own is good is good to Hampton yeah okay no I I I don't I'll put it to Joanne Fury the other one signed by man trust okay do you want copies of these I can send them to you tomorrow can I just use that pen the pen thank you thanks do you want copies of these sent back to you signed sure and okay just so you have them sure so I will contact of appeals don't far Joan isba also she's the cont for Morton yeah so zba meets the last fourth Tuesday of the month fourth Tuesday of the month can I get on the schedule for this month or is it absolutely not there's a whole process no yeah I'm going to tell you right now you already missed November's because it's got to be um published in the p and you got to get a certified a Butters list process it's about a month and a half so you got to come and fill out the application first okay and and and I'm Gonna Leave myself on the um I'm just going to see what you know I'm just going to tell the rest of the board what I've done tonight because they may say you know you're holding things up you know because we we have to be able to get one lot on the market and we have to be in shape to have it or you know way ahead of January to get on the warrant to okay for the you're going for the that we've already been approved by CPA so now we have to go on the warrant to have the town purchase a land and we have to have the deed registered so you know it may not even work out so you know I'm I have these already made so we signed it the worst is that I'm out $50 and I'll be coming back to say we're going to go back to the original plan because the time might be too close Okay um because you're saying that the earliest I could get board of appeals is well the the December meeting is the 23rd up the top of my head it's like December 23rd so I'd have to make sure we'd have a quorum because that's Christmas week okay that's a problem so I wantan to I I've already been asked for a public hearing on that date also not that we can't do two but I don't know if there if I have a quorum for Christmas week that's the problem because I know I'm off so I want to Tuesday is the 24th 24 Tuesday is the 24th yeah so that's not gonna happen good L it's not gonna happen so I mean the timing on this now that we've already done all these things may not work because I have to have figure out which parcel to have a deed number for um you know for the warrant for May yeah but that that warrant article um those warrants when you get that done yeah um that will be I mean I think I have to get it in like January February no March March or March March March March so that I could possibly do it yeah because we could do January or February yeah okay and I think it's like a few weeks before the town meeting that you have to have everything finalized I think as long as you tell them that you want something on the warrant yeah no I did that this time but I we didn't have a you know we were planning on going by the original thing no my point is that you have time to change like you just tell them that you want an warrant article and then you have time to update it right yeah yeah all right well I I'm not don't cross me off of two weeks from now because I now have to tell the rest of the board what we just did so keep you on our agenda for the next meeting the next meeting I got you on there yes and then it might be another $50 check so okay maybe I'll find the original check that I got all right well thank you everybody and um I just we'll see how this goes so you'll get back to me on when what date it would be January I we meet the fourth Tuesday you cannot you miss November's because I can't get it published okay and I doubt they're going to do a meeting Christmas Eve so now we're talking the fourth Tuesday in January do you know what it is off the top of your head January 28th January 28th okay all right so January 28th we'll do that and um and then do they make a decision right way yes they'll make it that but if you're going to do January 28th start backing in you're G to start doing your process in in December okay get things going in December so come in and get an application in December all right so I will talk to you thank all right thank you have a good evening I think confusing oh did she s did you sign him yeah um what's her name Sherry Sherry my she is a Myer would she she needs the myar she has to take the myar I don't know what you will she's gonna need to go to zba a okay put a paper clip over thank you on your here thank you I'll find it sure y oh look it there we go okay okay you're doing uh wam f for the ad Jackie watch he's probably find the other one like it was I thought this I was reading the wam I just one commented said provide homeowners with a means of obtaining this is the purpose yeah 4.10.1 b r owners with the means of obtaining through tenants and adus Rental income no I saw that too yeah wrong yes so it is in the Mass General law it is yes so a lot of my questions pertain to some of that okay short-term rental versus long-term rental no no you say short term it has to be Airbnb no no airbnbs are allowed 31 days or longer okay okay or 30 days 31 days whatever or longer um I yeah I saw that reference was it it was actually yeah so the question I have that you're going to allow a rental okay do you think that you should notify the neighbors that now your Adu is going to be using for rental those are we I'm posing this those are things to think about okay um so if it is it then goes from a uh it might go to a special permit okay so that all the neighbors are notified instead of just a site plan review right okay so you know or go ahead Joanne what you can't require special permit you can't but rental you're going to rent it how do you notify how I don't think you can what do you mean I don't I don't think you have to notify that a Butters I don't know I I'm pretty sure so when they see a different car every week yeah so the the other thing is you're going to go through a um site plan review right that we can do so those site plan reviews okay that's your only means to say to the people around hey it was posted it was in our agenda right you're going to get a lot of flat you're going to have people yelling at you right so those those are just one of we don't make up them I mean go ahead we don't make the masteral laws so no no I mean but it just shows there there was not a lot of attention to detail um when the legislature put these into effect um so that was was one thing P yeah there was 31 days yeah I'm sorry yep [Music] um did you have anything else up there I we're going I'm GNA go through wil Brams if that's okay with you y that all right with everybody else yep yep okay so some of the questions I have if you go to um this is 4 10.2 um C so they say that the Adu can be attached or unattached right to the principal dwelling so if it's attached okay the uh entrances shall not be loc shall be located on the side in the rear of the principal rear of the principal dwelling unit so in other words they may be joined to the original house but there is not access from the original house or the principal dwelling to the Adu is that what you take out of that General languages so those go ahead I mean I'm just bringing up those questions that I had you can think about them okay say that that again John your point is that so in other words um the Adu shall be complete separate housekeeping unit that functions as a separate unit from the principal single family dwelling and it says where the Adu is attached to the principal dwelling unit new entrances shall generally be located on the side or rear of the principal dwelling unit because ours said it had to have it connected right correct so ours was connected and I'm saying I don't believe this is this isn't clear to me okay it says on the side of the rear of the principal dwelling unit it's because they're trying to they're trying to Market this as a rental and you don't if you have people if you build an Adu and you have it attached your house you don't want them to be able to come into your house exactly so that's the question I have our said it's it it's connected this says no connection that as far as I'm reading that's I read also okay right separate housekeeping unit correct okay um when I go to D and I these are things I'm just asking to um this when I was reading it and I'm trying to play this out in my mind okay yeah questions that I have for myself but I'm asking the group um the exterior appearance of the access dwelling unit shall be reasonably compatible with the character and scale of the principal dwelling unit and the character of the neighborhood who makes that decision I would take the word reasonably out it's gonna be compatible make it compatible you're not gonna make it look like some hack job the building and again how do you justify what you know what you're asking people I catch see you cover your ass note yes it is that a c yeah cya yeah so if I built a I don't know foress behind my house be like like house so the building inspector would say oh wait a minute I I I don't agree this doesn't look like yeah your house but maybe the next door neighbor says well that I I think it looks good then somebody down the street may say oh I think it you know so does it reasonably how do you reasonably I'm taking out reasonably okay um so those that's something again like I said that's something um something I had a question on well and compatible with the scale of the principal dwelling unit in my head means same not same size but smaller it can only be 900 square feet or half gross floor area of the principal dwelling so if I had that you really need scale in there whichever is smaller 900 state law says yeah 900 or half whichever is smaller whichever is smaller what you say Joan it says to meet the requirements of the State Building Code for gross e uh safy gr is not larger in Gross floor area than half the gross floor area of the principal dwell or 900 ft whichever is smaller right yes I think scale just means if you've got like a cape you're not building like I don't know a stick house or something so I mean if I had 100,000 square foot or 10,000 square foot house how big's your house John that would be a mansion that's actually two Mansions 10,000 square feet big house mine's mine's 100 no so if it's a 10,000 square foot house the maximum you could build no matter what is always gonna be 900 square feet yes yeah so whether what's that that's not a lot of space um I is size I think my daughters is a character would speak to like the style of the house but scale says size to me so it seems scale says scale to me I'm engineer like it can't be higher than the roof of the main building no that's that's definite it can't be higher than right scaling is okay but okay okay so if you have a 900 foot house the largest to your accessory dwelling unit could be would be 450 square feet yes yeah that sucks well for a few how big they gross yeah there's half one off of cared or actually I think that versus cared that's 900 ft not that they've got enough land to put an Adu there but but the possibility is like you said 900 square feet um you know their biggest house could be 4 450 yeah yeah um yeah so it's um y yeah I'm not too worried about the word scale so that would be so 20 by 20 what would be if you're 900 yeah 20 by 20 is 400 square feet right yeah so I mean the 20 by 20 um a studio apartment studio apartment no tiny home tiny home yeah I mean this is like yeah that's probably what scale means you can't go up you know what I mean so you're not getting well they think they said I think if you have a ranch and you're putting an Adu you can't put a twostory or if you have a ranch you can't put a two story ad behind it or next to it yeah that's your scale scale and character yeah so again that may need to be clarified if you will which obviously it does because we're having some with it so where you have to allow E is at least one off street parking space must be provided for all adus parking may be in a driveway or a garage um the construction of a new garage to serve an Adu shall require a special permit from the planning board under um that's their 44.8 that's theirs um so garages those aren't up square footages and including your gross FL no right so here's the question I have so if I put an Adu a singular Adu and it tells me I have to have a parking space but now I want to put a garage one garage I need to have some definition of the size of the garage of the size of the garage now the question I have but there's a there's a section in our bylaw that allows um setbacks to if it's which pertains to an accessory building like a shed less than 170 square feet okay um which is a little smaller than a garage it can be located within 5 ft of the property line if it's on a two Street um if the principal dwelling is on Blue streets then there's a question there it that's in um that's in section seven of the bylaw okay so um that's if you make a new spot can you share if you have a spot at the principal dwelling and let's say I have a three-car garage can I share that spot don't know I keep asking don't want to I wouldn't but if you had let's say you had a three three car garage and um it was set up for I don't know one of your one of your children they moved out yeah and now that it's an empty spot can I utilize that for the Adu again I'm not asking for answers those are questions as I read this you know right I will get that up to the home so if we attach it and this this is one thing if Joanne you would contact Finn if we attach um if the Adu is attached they can share water from the principal depends on the septic right yeah talking to Board of Health yeah go ahead as same as if you're putting like an an addition on or bedroom okay how about on the bedrooms How about if it's unattached how's that as long as it's um accommodating an additional bedroom it's another bedroom or two bedrooms that's septic yeah now how about water cuz we is it a separate water service or is it going to be tie off of the house you mean tie off of the house so and the reason I ask this okay is because the water district now are in hampon we have a water district is that going to encumber if if somebody if everybody starts to put Abus in um are we going to be able to service those homes with enough water that's what I that's why it says going back to your parking not more than one additional parking space shall be required it doesn't say a garage but if it can have a parking space that's but is the person occupying the Adu going to be allowed to use the garage the primary residence in the primary residence and now that's their that's their parking spot that's their I think you just can't do more than one for the Adu but if you know you know what I'm saying if they allow you to use a parking space that's like saying you can use my Park my garage but but you still got to have the parking space for the Adu I think that's what it says here it has to have one spot right the one spot is in my principal I think you still have to have one according to this no one additional parking space shall be required it says one space shall be required one space in my my principal dwelling units three car garage yeah CU it doesn't say additional doesn't it says shall be provided it yeah no I'm reading the state law oh it says additional not more than one additional parking space required for an accessory dwelling unit so if you use someone's garage that's I guess fine but you can't put you still have to have one additional parking space not more than no says no more than one but to me that means it's not required additional shall be required says so my one parking space now I don't need to go through and get a special permit because I have the garage space from the principal building it's being provided being provided that's what that's all it means you know to create a new one if it's provided it's provided so that's the no more than one shall be required but you don't have to require one as long as there's but that's one out required but provided rent out and you don't want the tenant in your garage you don't have the parking space for them no then they have that's why I'm saying I think when you do the Adu you've got to have the required isn't it say required one parking space this says as provided in this one you're reading wilam I'm reading the state and I'm saying the state okay it's required so it doesn't tell you where it's required it can be in another building okay okay so is additional defined as additional to what is existing at the time of building the Adu or additional to what the driveway offers which would be considered a g all right I read this as bag use of stun this up didn't the use of Lander structures for an accessory unit under this paragraph shall not require owner occupancy of either the accessory dwelling unit or the principal dwelling un provided that not more than one additional parking space shall be required for an accessory dwelling unit and provided further no additional parking spaces shall be required for an accessory dwelling located not more than 0.5 miles from a computer rail station I read it as you're required to add a spot that's what how I read That's How fired what to add a parking spot add a parking space for the Adu so in other words what if it's attached now if it's attached to my house so why can't I offer that one parking space okay here's if anybody come so if it's this vague there's going to be questions about it that's where I'm going with this yeah well what I was going to say is that for an applicant has to come for special permit for an Adu right no no site plan review for okay well so site plan review is where you going to look at the parking right so the site plan review is if if it's offered in the uh house is that going to be okay and the principal delling unit I would say one additional spot additional to me means at the time of the building of the Adu you have to have a parking space additional to what is already existing on the property including driveway that's how I would read it so in other words if there's three there you're saying you want another one yes yeah I think that's how Okay I I don't care you know I really don't it's the vagueness of the of the state laws and everything people will find those holes exactly yeah and you're going to leave that up to you know building inspector or R Us you know we're going to interpret it this way but we need to be consistent yeah yeah okay all right um then the next page is Adu shall conform to the town of hamen right storm water bylaw Wetlands protection bylaw and regulations as applicable yeah um again my thing with the short-term rentals right the notification is my big thing 31 days is short to me rents so I could rent one for a month or two months then move out and then do another two months I can one for eight because it's so now I got an influx of college kids okay um I can rent I have now a source of income for college kids because it's a rental and I rent it to them for eight months whatever the school term is yeah okay uh I would specify if we can that a lease would be required between renter and reny can we require that I don't think so I don't think that sucks but that's that's the way it is I guess you know um so okay go ahead so if somebody goes on Airbnb and rents it for two months two months you could put it on Airbnb as a two-month rental H fascinating um okay so all adus require uh site plan approval which is yep um special permit if they want to put a garage in yep problem and then the other one planning board May request reasonable plan modifications I think that's fine um of the site plan or Adu May impose reasonable conditions that are not inconsistent with this bylaw or the provisions of Mass General Law whatever 40 blah blah blah okay then nonconforming you units we don't have anything in our bylaw that addresses non-conforming housings or non-conforming yeah Stu thank you so wilam does they do have couple pages about non-conforming so I'm not sure how you want to address it I didn't I didn't quite get the I was trying to understand what they were saying here it says go ahead it says provided that no special permit may consider the Adu use or impos conditions on such use when you've got a non-conforming residence so in other words so now go ahead so now you've got this special permit coming in to the mix with a non-conforming property yeah so in other words if you have a non-conforming property yeah okay and you want to put an Adu on it go ahead and now you got a special permit in the mix go ahead and it can't that can't is it saying that somehow can't change the nature of the nonon it can't make the non-conforming property conforming now right correct that and it can't make it more non nonon you you understand yeah so the question is so the setback I'm going to go with setbacks just yeah and I want to put an Adu a not not attached right and my setbacks are already not according to the zoning bylaw right that means I can still put that Adu in right with the same setbacks is that what they're saying as not not being in other words you can't impose conditions on such a use so in other words if our conditions now are 30 feet and the house was built and it was 15 that means the Adu can be 15t from this no it's that back no my my interpretation would be up the Adu needs to follow the current conforming requirements but it's not going to impact the fact that the law it's on is non-conforming yeah okay okay I think we have to reward that a little bit yeah we because we have no yeah really nothing on non-conforming when it comes to water supply and Sewer right yeah I mean is it the could you essentially just I'll say tap into what exists if you're in the existing home and it you know if the Board of Health says it's good you got water you're there's enough there's enough space in the uh I was say in the leech field for to add it and it you don't have to have anything Standalone you can just whether you're attached to the house or away from the you know or detached it sounds like you could take advantage of what's on the property and it could work as as long as it's approved on the board of health I don't see where yeah so that's the but the question I have is how about in our water district yeah well that's part of the of Board of Health approval for the building permit right but so somebody comes to H or whoever with a a building permit and says I want to build a 600 sare foot 80 years have one bathroom this many fixtures and whoever has to look to see what the and it's in the it's it's off of our water right District so it might okay so the water district might be able to accommodate that for the first 50 adus that are built let's I think there's 12 now we're going to add some more we're going to add some more so is the do we have enough water they're redoing the pump station and things right now did anybody considered that I don't know and those absolutely not what's that absolutely not right it monitored now it's probably there's probably a water model now for the town if they're doing all this work and that's how they look well in capacity of it I think so if somebody puts a subdivision in who checks to see oh yeah there's enough water for all those houses they do that now what do you mean yeah they should like a subdivision how do you know if there's enough water for 20 houses in an area that's so in wilham where they're supplied with water oh yeah that's different no no it's not they they have to make sure that the main the sizes the mains are there are big enough yeah I but I mean is the is the pressure and everything because everything's Wells here right no we have a water district Water District's in other words it goes down Main Street so that's just a question that's why I asked you know that's a question that I'm asking if everybody you got let's say I think there's 12 houses now probably going to be 17 or maybe 18 eventually um if everybody puts an Adu in um now there um yeah 36 whatever um is it going to be a problem don't know I I don't know that's the question for somebody else okay there's a lot of questions do you want to quickly just go through mson it's pretty much the same I think the wam one was a little bit uh more robust yes okay so maybe the next time we meet we'll have some better ideas I think it's you know right in the in the mson one it says right up front they're allowed as a matter of Rights and that comes very clear you got it where you maybe you don't it's not as clear it's not in the wilam it's not and you're right this is one that so like in right here as you look at the I saw it in month in werham where you're saying it's not as clear I just don't no that you know it talks about the purpose talks about the bylaw probably says it under the reference there but it's right we're going to have to commend our table so basically I'm going to ask R4 and R six are the only places you want to years corre good [Music] yes can I move it can we table the other two till next I'm say that again table the other business till next meeting what's the other business battery storage and ohing byas yeah I'm just yeah I know I appreciate I'm just exhausted have we yeah have we got anything from maybe we can look at Joanne grabbing battery storage from other towns I do I already sent them out once I have them on oh you did okay for Two Towns all right yeah yeah no worries those I have yeah we'll do minutes when David's back okay I'm okay with that anything else motion to adjourn moved all in favor H reasonable condition right oh yeah there it is