##VIDEO ID:CHLMMSZ59ik## [Applause] adequate notice of the December 30th 2024 meeting of the township committee has been provided in accordance with the open public meetings act by posting written notice and agenda of the meeting on the bulletin board in a Municipal Building 1000 Route 10 tatri of hover and by hand delivering mailing faxing such notice in the following newspapers Mars County Daily Record Star Ledger Handover eagle and by following the same with the Township Clerk on roll call committee man kahill here committe farasa here commit francioli here commit Mahalo here and mayor Gallagher here five members in attendance okay please join us if you would for the Pledge of Allegiance and please remain standing for our prayer led by Deputy Mayor Mike Mahal I pledge ALG to the flag of the United States of America and to theic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all almighty God please watch over and guide this governing body with an abundance of wisdom and understanding to help make the best decisions for our residents please bless our First Responders and Township volunteers who help keep us all safe also bless our Township employees and residents lastly please let us bless let us pray for the men and women of the US Armed Forces who stand vigil over us always amen good evening may I have a motion to adopt a resolution authorizing the township committee to go into Clos executive session to discuss matters under attorney client pursuing to njsa 10 col 4-12 as it relates to the fourth round affordable housing and pending litigations hont vers SMC may I have a motion second all in favor I we're going to go into executive session for a little while and we will return it's hot yeah a seat yeah you get a closeup seat fell off so christe you're taking this right mhm I job [Music] yeah thank you for your patience everyone may I have a motion I'm sorry my mic's off thank you everyone for being so patient you hear me now okay yes okay may I have a motion to reopen the public hearing so moved second okay the first item on the agenda is the approval of Township committee meeting minutes of December 12th may have a motion to approve approve second so approved next order of business is the approval of the resolutions 214 2024 215 2024 and 216 2024 as a consent agenda any member of the committee have any questions regarding any of these items no so moved may I please have a motion thank you have a second all in favor I resolutions are so approved next we have to pay our bills in the amount of $397,900 65 John can we pay the bills to pay the bills may I have a second second all in favor I bills will be paid next on the agenda is ordinance 27 2024 I'd like to State for the record that on December 12th 2024 the township committee opened the public hearing of ordinance 27 the township committee then decided to carry the hearing and the adoption to tonight's meeting at this time may I have a motion to continue the public hearing of ordinance 27 2024 so move second is there anyone in Chambers wishing to be heard concerning ordinance 27 if so please state your name and address for the record go ahead tell me open it for the public oh open to the public okay we're going to open sorry we did the payment of bills I'm sorry I missed um part of the agenda I apologize I was reading too fast we're going to open to the public but not for ordin anything else that anybody like to speak regarding you may do so come to the microphone state your name and address for the record nothing on ordinance 27 any other public comments are welcome there will be a public hear on the order I went too fast I'm sorry we went out of order open flal open to the public yeah good evening Terry be I live in the whipy section of Hanover Township uh like I try to do every time we have a a meeting I try to update you on what's happening at the uh social welfare Hotel also known as the red carpet in the Scottish Inn um just so that you are aware the ceiling and the roof of the Scottish Inn is uh collapsing and they are still housing the people in those particular rooms they are not being moved they're in rooms where the ceilings are collapsing because of water damage up on the roof and pretty soon they'll be opened up to the sky and they'll be able to look at the stars so I think that you should be aware of that um since that nobody seems to be able to be able to do anything at the uh at this level but if you you know ever have any meetings with any state representatives you might want to pass uh something like that along um they uh also wanted wanted you to know the residents over there that uh things still haven't changed and um they're looking forward to being able to get out of there and into housing but uh that doesn't seem to be happening because of all the stop gaps at the county level so all the stop gaps at the county level if you ever speak to any of our County Representatives you might want to pass that along that there were a lot of um things such as um the cost of the uh apartments that they can go into they have to be uh according to a bedroom Distribution on a HUD on a HUD site for and it only allowed so much money it has to include utilities um so if it doesn't go to that if they if it's too much they can't go in but people that are living there are forced to apply which the application process is $50 or $75 a person per adult that's in the household Lindsay's household there are three adults now so it cost her $300 this weekend because the county mandates that they apply to so many Apartments even though they can't afford it and and the TR won't won't pay for it she's out $300 you know out of her $728 welfare benefit uh of which she pays $510 co-pay to the hotel and of course she didn't have enough money so I Terry Barrett paid for it again again and again so and I'm just trying to help one f family I have spent thousands of dollars trying to help this family in this past year thousands I'm getting close to $5,000 the amount of money that is spent there to keep people there is unrealistic compared to what they could be getting if they were actually in an apartment I could have put put a down payment on on a house by now with the amount of money that's been spent on just this one family alone it's disgusting that's where our taxpayer dollars are going and that's what the County's paying for the county pays for them to live there $77 a night for them to live there that's all taxpayer dollar money it's insane absolutely insane and I just thought you should be aware thank you Terry before you sit down just I to get to the first issue I just have a couple of questions you know because there's certain things we can fix short term obviously your second issue is a much larger one the rooms with the ceilings that were caving in were you in those rooms I personally cannot go into the hotel mhm well for I'm looking for I'm sorry to interrupt you just in the inst time I'm interested in which hotel and what room Scottish in second floor towards the route 10 side thank you right did you have another question no that's that's I really cuz I want to get somebody in in buildings somebody to have a look at that that's something that we might be able to do as a town as opposed to some of the things you're talking about require the state to get inv the building is such a health hazard I can't go in since I was since I was poisoned by toxic mold my lungs can't tolerate going into actual the building even when I go there I spray myself with with a home flea spray so that I don't bring home cockroaches and and bed bugs to my home and Terry I just want to say that um Senator pinaco has been back back in touch with me I know you had a nice meeting with Senator panacho and uh I think he's one of the highest Representatives we know and he's very concerned about some of the issues you brought to him so hopefully that helps too so we're here for you we're here for all of our residents so thank you for bringing this to our attention repeatedly and and and also if for for they used to call it dius now they call it dcpm okay if dius were to come to your house and you had cockroaches and mold and such like that in your home your children would be taken away from you dcpm pays that hotel to House people and I'll leave it at that mayor after this about three meetings ago Terry where someone from that hotel came and and spoke every person on this governing body stopped me uh to to say please let's do whatever we can do and that's what was represented and and Rob had coordinated an inspection from the state and as you know somehow right it it went okay but what would help is if there are photos to what I think uh you know we we're getting at is if there's photos or information if that could be forwarded to Joe Georgio we have we will forward all that down to the DCA representative who sent out for the inspection maybe these are things they didn't see when they went for that inspection or didn't look for or whatever it might be we can bring it to their imediate attention at least there's someone we should be able to do that unless they have blindfolds on well I'll just say if you get that to the administration those photos from anybody and I know you said that in the past that somehow some residents felt they couldn't necessarily come forward with that but if they give that say to you and you send it to the administration I I know that we've established the communication with the DCA Rob even had some Town represent go to the inspections so that's the best otherwise those inspections as you know don't take place for like months at a time so if you could forward them I think we can at least take a look and and see what we can do right I'll try to have them take pictures that are unidentify to their rooms because even if otaa office of temporary assistant pays for their room um nyak does not have to take uh accept them they can just kick them out the next day give knock on the dooring 9:00 in the morning tell them they have to be out by 11:00 thank you ter we have the uh cooperation Mr Mayor if I could please we uh we had a meeting set up with the uh Mars County Commissioners and we had a meeting set up with uh their welfare board as well Joe Giorgio had set that up with uh myself and he unfortunately uh we had a cancel that meeting ran into a little difficulty with some eye surgery but uh that uh that's still on the table now Joe has been away on vacation and we've had had a holiday bre break in between here but we'd like to bring that back together I think if we can sit down with them and get their cooperation uh if uh if only with their welfare uh participants that are in there okay because we know the hotel has a mix of both welfare and public uh uh tenants in there as well uh it's a problem uh but in any event uh let me keep you in touch uh we'll keep you in touch through Christa uh and I can get that meeting set up again as soon as Joe gets back off a vacation we get the holidays behind us and we'll focus on it and R maybe we'll invite Senator pachu to that meeting too uh I'd like for him to join us if you want to you want to involved yeah thank you Terry thank you uh Chris ainson 70 M Avenue Cedar nlls I walk uh rdale Avenue just about every day and I've been noticing there's more and more car accidents on that street in particular particularly by the Walmart and the storage area I don't know if there's any plans to do like a traffic study or look into it but there seems to be more and more people crashing into each other by the quick check and the Walmart that's it Brian K Hill is our Le under the public safety and and Brian's already taking notes I'm sure Brian will make a phone call tomorrow yeah I'll just do a side by side and see uh the number of accidents 202 2024 versus 23 versus 22 and see if there's a real Trend there or not okay thank you sir anyone else uh Dean ainson CS I um Pro I'm probably I'm pretty sure that I won't get the answer cuz I see the people that I need are not here but um I had asked last time about the signage on Mountain Avenue and I was just wondering if there was any update on whether we're um able to remove the extra speed hump ahead signs or lower any of the signs to okay well since the last meeting we asked Jerry mesera to look into it and I I don't know what Jerry did but Jerry's on vacation but kers we have a representative from coers engineering tonight which is basically in charge of that project and we shared the concerns of the neighborhood with cers with the amount of signage with the amount of temporary signage with the amount of possible construction signage so if you could take the floor and just explain what legal we legally we have to do with the signage the height of the signage the amount of signage and why that would be really great for our residents thank you mayor can you turn it on to please thank you thank you so for the uh speed humps that are being installed on mountain and Summit there's 11 of them uh there needs to be two uh signs per speed hump approach one as a as a speed hump ahead type of sign and then the other one as the speed hump is here signed so you need two signs per location per approach that's what the final uh look will be um and it has to be that way that's how it is and you know it's for safety reasons to make sure that uh you're giving the motorists the opportunity to be aware that uh the speed H hump is there and they they don't go fast over and cause a tax where where um does it say that that's a requirement I'm just wondering cuz I don't see that on our other streets and I don't see that in other towns it's a do regulation I see like one before the speed hump or one at the speed hump but I don't see two cuz we have four signs for each speed hum and I don't see that in any anywhere else this is the only two streets I've ever seen that I could only talk about what I know what's going on with these speed humps right now the that's how uh they are there per dot standard uh one per the one set is per approach that's how it is okay um are you able to give me the information on where I can find that information sure it's uh on the NJ do it's their technical specifications in the what their technical specifications in New Jersey Department of Transportation when it comes to speed humps okay I didn't see that I think Jerry's getting back on January 6th John do you know that I believe that's the the correct date I will follow up with Jerry and see where he left off with you and with and Jerry we'll get you that information I know I read the do one of the things and then I read the manual for uniform traffic control devices and I didn't see where you need four at each speed H hump anywhere in there we will get that information to you we could meet with Jerry and the appreciate that that would not a problem thank you thank you thank you anyone [Music] else seeing none hearing none motion to close that portion of public comment move second all in favor now we're going to do the public hearing on ordinance 27 is there any member of the public that wants to be heard regarding ordinance number 27 if so please state your name and address for the record at the podium and you will have four minutes uninterrupted got to break the 4minute mile huh uh thank you Darren oconor I'm at uh Brandy Wine Court in whipy so uh our property actually backs up right toward the dead end on Eden Lane so near and dear to our heart uh thank you the council and the other employees uh representatives of the Town cuz I know you guys put a lot of time in I said that last time it's not microphone I can't uh your mic it's for all right so thank you guys for all the time you put in you can yell at us all right I will I get louder as I go on um so the biggest there's a couple things I we've talked about this I've been to a few meetings thank you again for allowing you know some of the people from the neighborhood to have uh some extra access to talk about this but uh you know we have a lawsuit so it seems like I know there's supposed to be at least from the Press some ruling January 1st I don't know how that's going to affect things so I know we have this December 30th date um and a lot of work probably went into that um you know not to uh get to the end but my my view would be you know let's back this up a couple of months I know there's that's easy to say and there's a lot of moving Parts you have the state uh trying to move here you have the developer you have Bayer that wants to move on if we're not not going to pass this and so on and so forth but it's not an easy decision you guys have to make um traffic it's already a huge problem it's not going to get any better you know we've talked about it at nauseum that particular section around Quick Check coming down prey road we've talked about it 700 cars an hour at Peak it's only going to have to back that light up as all these people are coming in and out of this um you know residence and and the commercial part so um that's a lot of cars that are be going to be coming the other way uh the trees I didn't realize uh I should have got involved earlier in this there's thousands of trees that are going to be cut down for this thing the buffer Eden Lane I originally thought they were going to develop inside of that uh on the old parking lot and all that area in there I didn't realize all those trees are coming down I mean I need a permit to take one tree down in my yard um but we can wipe out thousands as long as we're putting up some housing so that seems a little hypocritical whether it's the state or the the town or whatever um there's a lot of wildlife back there goes through our yard every day whether it's the turkeys and the fox and the deer and so on and so forth I know they'll still be B the airport property but just we keep squeezing them in and squeezing them in so um the setback um if this was going to go forward I know the developer was here last time and he had the blueprints and it's at 83 ft off of Eden Lane uh when I look at the plan that's still on the town website that I pulled up today it says 50 ft off of Eden Lane so I don't know if there's a discrepancy there or it got moved and maybe the plan is outdated uh so that does concern me if this was to move forward um one thing that struck me I know this whole thing got started with the condemnation of the property um and those buildings that I never even saw were way back there but has the town um looked into and what's going to happen like what's in those buildings those were old old Bell la are there any environmental concerns and has there been any testing or who's going to look over all that I guess from the state the town the county um I don't know what's in those buildings or what's been in there for 30 years they're kind of tucked away in the woods um I think that's all I have so I realize it's a diff difficult decision uh I'm not saying that property shouldn't be developed in my point of view 400 units just to me is way too many with what's going on all around the county and in the northern part of the state here um if it was a lot less units and a little more commercial which it was originally designed to be I think that would be uh you know just putting more time in and getting this right I think we have a better outcome so thank you thank you anyone else hello Alyssa Shane lepas 37 Valley Forge Drive I hear the concerns um I did come with something prepared as concerned residents whose property is in very close proximity to Bayer my husband and I have spent a lot of time on this topic we've attended several planning board meetings Township committee meetings and have been given the opportunity to meet with some of you on the township committee as well as some members of the planning for and others we've talked at length about this situation and fully appreciate the struggle the township committee has had in weighing the right thing to do for the town we have the same concerns that we have heard neighbors and committee members raise we are worried about traffic especially knowing what traffic is like right now and that is without the other planned developments built and inhabited yet we are worried about safety we are worried about the wildlife we are worried about the impact on our property value we are worried about the trees however we have also heard the risks and we did all we could to understand those risks I'm pretty risk adverse so I really have focused on reviewing those risks in order to form my opinion first when I while I realize we are in a lawsuit and the next gubernatorial race um is next year there are a lot of unknowns with both the lawsuit and the race we don't know that we along with the other municipalities will be successful with the lawsuit there are a lot of towns joining up but if we win will that win reverse what has already been dictated or just future allocations while I am hopeful that the next Governor will be someone who appreciates the pressure that has been placed on communities like Handover Township and will have a very different opinion and perspective than our current governor we don't have time to wait and we don't know what the result will be of the gubernatorial race secondly we know Bayer wants to offload the property and has actively pursued this route despite the township trying very hard with other ideas that better align with what we want our community to look like if the plan is not passed will Bayer go to the state and if that happens what will the state do my concern is that the state will force more housing upon us than what would what is actually called for in this Redevelopment plan alternatively will bay or leave if they do will we be able to replace them with another corporate citizen or could we somehow end up with some really crazy situation that involves an even bigger development finally I keep thinking about the experience Mr Mahalo shared at a previous Township committee meeting where he explained that eight or nine years ago the planning board voted no on a plan that would have put 750 units on Eden Lane we are now ending up with a whole lot more than that because of what is being forced Upon Us by the state if those 750 units had been approved and built we wouldn't have that property as an option to become an even more massive development which it will soon be we know that the bay property could have as many as 1,400 rental units built all within the buildable portion of of the property so while I think 400 sounds like a lot with 320 being for sale and 80 rental it does sound a lot better than 1,400 potential rental units to me I truly appreciate the dilemma and I feel you know moving forward that I am more comfortable with going with the current Redevelopment plan given those risks but that being said I very much worry about a bait and switch where we have a plan as it is now and end up with something else I would love to know what the township committee and the planning board will do to ensure that if the plan is passed it will be followed with the caliber of the hotel retail and residents aligning to what is expected and how we as residents can help in that effort thank you thank you very much anyone else good evening I had prepared remarks last time I'm going off the cuff this time uh Denise shanang at conquered Road um Darren I really appreciate a lot of the points that you raised um and I agree um I think that after learning a little bit more about this uh ordinance that's presented before us um at the end of the day it comes to me down to this fear it's fear of the wh ifs it's fear of this compelling event that seems to be happening with December 31st that's before us that's you know pressuring us to make this decision when it's our town you're the Town Council you set the Strategic master plan that is the vision of what we all believed in and why we decided to purchase property to live here so I believe that we should be taking that into into into consideration um I don't believe we should be being pressured I don't believe that we should be and I'm not naive enough to know that this isn't about money it's always about money and I get that but I think that you all have a lot more power than we are maybe feeling and I think we need to take the time to really think this through there's a lot of really smart people in this town that care a lot about this town and have skills and assets that perhaps we could put our heads together and think about what we need to do to fight what's happening with the state um you know New Jersey Warren notices in 2024 Bayer put 131 jobs that were laid off we have no idea what's going to happen to Bear they've been a wonderful uh corporate uh citizen here stakeholder but um we can't be making decisions and changing our strategic master plan because of the short term so I think at the end of the day we know high density development is a problem 400 units 400 new residents is a lot in that very small um in my opinion acreage um and so at the end of the day I think that we shouldn't be being pressured into making this decision if we need more time we should take that time thank you thank you very much anyone else you knon Cedar NOS I don't live over there and haven't followed it obviously like you guys have but I see a lot of you here and so I wanted to know how you guys fall like who here would like to see them vote no on ordinance what is it 27-20 24 who would like to see them vote no raise your hand okay and who would like to see them vote Yes okay thank you thank you very much anyone else [Music] Mike CH nitzki 57 Oak Boulevard I have lived in town for 25 years more or less uh but Teresa whose family has been here for something like 120 5 years asked if I would say something she thought that what landmark has presented to the township committee for H over a dozen years right now of our vision for the center of whiy would be useful in helping to evaluate this ordinance the the vision that we have presented has been in draft form it's now on its third revision we keep revising it it doesn't change it doesn't get approved it's still draft but the vision basically says that there is something called historic whiy because whiy is a unique place in New Jersey I mean we were whippy was Morris Warren and Sussex counties and then the representatives of the king said no it's not whin anymore it's Handover Township okay now we have the state dictating one more time to us to change our town the vision that we have says that historic whiy which the township has approved and signs are going up one of these days will have a number of museums we have a railroad museum we have a Living Museum called the whiy burying yard we have a fire department Museum and someday we're going to have the Tuttle house become a museum we have 877,000 $250 worth of approved grants and if the township committee can fund the matching funds then preservation of that building happens and all of a sudden our gem the center of town gets significantly better we we have suggested that along the river the river which was the the blood of this town that we should have a trail and the trail ends in the Nature Preserve and this ordinance basically says that you are plopping this massive development right where the Nature Preserve is is and that doesn't make the center of town better it doesn't make the Ambiance it doesn't make the lifestyle of whiy any better and so we have presented our vision and we hope that that is a useful perspective because whiny has something that few other people have we had it all in terms of the historic development of the United States here and we want to preserve that and fight tooth and nail to recogn that our history is that important so thank you so much thank you sir anyone else Terry bar whiy section of Handover um I think the plan um is shortsighted I think it fails in reference to the needs of the public the people the local people in town um unfortunately a lot of these places are built and they are not within reach for people to be able to afford and they still can't stay in town so you know you have families uh we've had we have a big promise of senior housing we've you know we have to see that um you know people don't want to leave town they want to stay with their families but these humongous edifices um don't really meet the needs of the people who live in Hanover Township they may meet the needs of the people who live in Jersey City and Bon or forever you know that want to come here but we're here already and it doesn't meet the needs of the people that are here at all from my standpoint um I'm and I also you know my family's been here a long time and hover Township has changed over time but slowly this is a mhm this is like running a marathon uphill and it like doesn't really meet the needs of the people that live here the people who live here in town if a if a senior family was to to to sell their home they they can't afford the rent in these places they can't afford it it's impossible that's why you see I don't even think 81 over there is is full is it Jim I don't think so I mean look how long it took to fill it I mean it's just and the affordable housing piece doesn't even doesn't meet anybody's needs it's maybe it's B it's based on what the state may quote unquote recommend or what the town May recommend but you know 80 units it doesn't really address the ability of somebody who say wanted to get out of the hotel and has a TR voucher that will pay for their rent that they already have approval for for years can't afford to move there because it's still too high or the or the qualifications that are necessary to get in there are impossible for them to meet that's again where your state representatives could come in because those things really need to change because the only thing that's going to get them out is for laws to be changed otherwise you're just going to stay there in a homeless hotel and with a ceiling caving in around them and if they get kicked out of there they'll be squatting in houses down the road or they'll be living behind Walmart which yes they still live behind Walmart and the people behind Walmart guess what they work they go to work every day they can't afford a place to live this does not meet anybody's needs the homeless people over at the hotel they live in our town they're not just you know isolated there they're part of our town they've been living there for a year and a half or longer 3 years 4 years I mean you know usually when you live someplace 30 days you're a resident right so I don't think it meets the needs of the town thank you thank you Terry anyone else my apologies i' just like to add a really short C to and that is incredible how quickly history is forgotten and I'm going to site that John you and I were at ched kosh's funeral okay World War II hero there is a school in town called Memorial Junior School named after the heroes of World War II and in that school they never mention that World War II happens to any of the children it's incredible how quickly history is forgotten whiy had the headquarters of the Continental Army we have nothing in town to memorialize it that we ran the Continental war from whiy so my apologies for theota S thank you would anyone else like to be heard motion to close second all in favor I I okay does any member of the committee have any comments they'd like to make regarding ordinance 27 John would you like to make a comment yeah mayor I've got a comment um I'd like to First on behalf of the committee thank everyone for coming out sharing their thoughts their perspective on an ordinance 27 it's important it's important that we hear it um there's three points to consider related to South Campus from a planning board perspective responsibility for planning and it's whether what and how let's reflect a little bit WEA whether this 80 acres will it be developed yes it will be developed at some point what will be developed there well since 2010 planning board Township committee we've evaluated seven initiatives seven this is the only one that is Advanced to the Redevelopment State and the only one that constituted a mixed use component of residential and Commercial we've heard a lot of straight residential the last one is how how it will be redeveloped and from a house standpoint I'll go back to the planning standpoint and what I would suggest and recommend mayor is that our attorney conduct an optim optimization plan of the affordable housing component as it relates to special needs thank you John Ron any comments thank you mayor yes uh again I Echo uh committe M far Mosa's comment to our public thank you all for coming out tonight I know this is of great interest to everybody in the room it affects all of us um it's been said from the floor that uh Han Township has a gun to its head and uh that may be so but I've experienced Kaa fare housing Etc as Council knows since it's early stages in the 1978 79 Mount Laurel decisions which made a requirement of every town and municipality in New Jersey to take on low moderate housing affordable housing it's a very Noble program uh and it worked very well for quite some time um my comments are not focused on uh the outcome fully of the Bayer property uh it's an obrl Zone office building research lab uh it's been that way since Bell Laboratories uh there are many good uses for this and as uh John said uh it's going to develop into something at some point um but uh that being said uh my greater issue uh is if we're going to accept development in this in what form do we accept it um now both the mayor mayor Gallagher and uh committee farasa have been down at the league of municipalities and arguing for developmentally disabled peoples and to get more housing into manover for uh for the special needs of the town this is an ideal spot for that and I'm sure we're giving it some consideration uh but having said that at this point um I do think there is further uh need for looking at uh at this site it's one of the last largest sites of this town other than the whiy paperboard property and how it develops is uh is of critical importance to us all um so uh I would like to learn more about this as we go on thank you Mr Mayor thank you Ron Brian uh my only comment would just be to um thank those of you that did come out it is very important and and I really we I think I can speak for all of us really do appreciate the fact that you understand uh the the decision that we need to make it's it's not taken lightly at all um there's just so many moving parts and it's nice to see that you you do your research and and you kind of understand all all the the wheels that are in motion here so just thank you for that we really do appreciate when you come out and and and take your your input very very seriously thank you Brian Mike yeah just real quick I I again I agree with my committee man and you're absolutely right Brian the people that are here oh your M you don't want to hear me anyway uh you know I want to thank the people that are here they've done their homework they've done their research this is not Facebook where they just pull stuff out of and just say Cross Your Arms stamp your feet say no um you know there there's there's uh you guys have we've been to meetings after meeting after meeting and you know we've met with their residents and and we're doing our best uh to get what's best for Handover and like Brian said there's a lot of moving Parts um two points something's going to get built here um not tonight maybe not tomorrow I don't know but something's going to get built there just know it uh we've been amazed that been this vacant for this long um and again it's a matter of picking your poison and the other thing is and you know Ron had mentioned it too you know the fair share housing that's beyond our control write your Senators write your representatives I gave up on this Governor but write them tell them tell them what they're doing to our towns if you don't speak up they will not listen if they do not hear you they cannot react and even if you know we've got a town town of 14,000 people a little bit more if a thousand of you wrote a letter that would make a difference if every town a th000 people wrote a letter it would make a difference and I'm not talking Republican or Democrat this is beyond that this is the the the degradation of our our our state it's it's getting overrun for money uh that's that's the only way there is to it um but again thank you all for coming out thank you for your input uh we do appreciate it we do take it all to heart thank you Mike just to conclude and I won't repeat anything any of my colleagues have set up here and thank you very much guys for all your time and I appreciate your comments and your hard work I think I've spoken to just about everybody in this room repeatedly about the issues and the issues that we're up against detail about the challenge that we're involved in and another challenge that we may get involved in also serving on a subcommittee with the league of municipalities we made this an issue for the Governor's race coming up in 2025 everybody is going to weigh in on where they are what they'd like to do to make it better and also we're forcing the hand to respond to the Buco bill which was very specific about stopping round three on where it is and evaluate where and how it's going to adversely affect us but where I would conclude is I appreciate the understanding of this issue and this fight and how high level it goes and I've said plenty of times there's no de between us and you we're hand of Township residents and sometimes as a mental exercise I make believe I'm not part of the governing body and when I go into what the heck are they thinking then I try to take that into a practical application to serve you better so this is a struggle it's going to be developed Darren o Conor you are sharp you pick up everything your sentence right there we could have stopped everything it's going to be developed but what is it going to be and when is that going to happen and that's our job working with you to try to do the absolute best we can for Han Township so that being said Thank you guys thank you for everything and Fred do you want to close out with any thoughts mayor if I could just just for the record you know one of the questions it was a good question that was raised was the lawsuit right now let's just say the the court strikes down the new rules what happens to the old rules the old rules are still in effect and that's because on top of it the rules were developed from a courts a court case uh down in uh Trenton uh Mercer County about 7 years ago some towns got together and they challenged the formula and there was a decision that we're all still living by that was a result of that type of fight so it doesn't Wipe Out the past so to speak it could change the future this project this property right now is not part of the Township's affordable housing plan but that doesn't mean in the future that won't change but I just want to make it clear that that's that's what happens and uh when it comes to the different lawsuits there's the one at the state level the town also is involved where the the governing body you know there's a lot of comments like you said I don't somebody said you know like the Facebook comments there are so many uh different moving Parts when it comes to affordable housing so for an example the governing body had existing affordable housing units and what it did was it used trust fund money paid by developers not taxpayers and extended those controls for 106 affordable units so they would count again that way you didn't have to build another 500 units and so right now one of the fallouts to that is the governing body is has litigation regarding those extensions someone challenged that saying that um the the Property Owners Association saying that they should still be paying um the dues as the market rate units so there's those type of things that are still going on and the extension of controls uh but nonetheless the next round is is upon us and it's coming forward um but as far as the timing of this ordinance what it's important to understand is this ordinance if it's not adopted tonight by law you have to start again because it's the governing body resets at its reorganization meeting next year so that's why you're here tonight that's why it's December 30th and to some of the comments just from a legal perspective committee man farasa had indicated I'd like to look at the affordable component you can do that but you can't this isn't June where you could say and we'll bring it back next month you have to start again if you want to do that it doesn't mean it doesn't preclude you from bringing back the ordinance for consideration if you had a concern like that it's just because it's the end of the year this ordinance is has to be decided one way or the other and you'd have to start again just so we're clear for the record and to that point I just wanted clarification from the governing body to to that request Mr farasi you had said to to take a look at the affordable component of this project and try to reassess it can you just make sure that I understand your comment better um I'll reiterate um the recommendation is that our attorney would conduct an optimization of the affordable housing plan component as it relates to special needs background on this is mayor spoke about it committee man Fran spoke about it hand over advaned recommendations with the league in Atlantic City trying to provide special treatment priority for special needs we want to see that done here okay so I understand that's one of the follow-ups that that this governing body is asking to look at to look at if it were to come back as a new program if it was defeated tonight if it were understood right because we can't I can't say to you well I'll get back to you next month and you can continue this you'd have to decide on the ordinance tonight and then that would have to be Revisited at a later date and and before we go to a vote Christa I just want to make one more comment about something Fred said about a year and a half ago each public meeting we bought up a full section on an affordable housing fair share uh update by Fred samural a lot of municipalities have had um Roundtable discussions about the law how it could affect us and different strategies I participated in two with seven different municipalities we're going to discuss doing something like that in Han of a Township because like Mike said and Brian said we appreciate the due diligence our residents are doing because it's helpful to us this is your town we represent you so we will be bringing back Fred's update once a month and we are going to have a round table discussion or a public forum where we will discuss everything we can and answer any questions we can as it pertains to the upcoming round and the unmet need from round three so that's my final comment okay now may I take a vote on adoption of ordinance 27 2024 commit kahill no committee man farasa no committee man francioli no committee man Mahalo no mayor Gallagher no okay ordinance 27 2024 is defeated unanimously mayor Gallagher and the members of the committee that clears the agenda and I thank you thank you very much Christa so before we adjourn uh would anybody like to make any comment to the public mayor can I can I just ask with respect to that vote does that mean this governing body still wants me to have that dial diog regarding the affordable housing component of that that project or not to have that dialog I just wanted to make sure I'm clear that was The Proposal okay so I would still follow through it does come back in 2025 it would helpful for you to discuss that component that's how I understand it John is that correct yes that was a proposal thank you all right thank you okay would anybody from the governing body like to make a closing comment have a happy new yeary happy New Year happy happy New Year we and we have one other matter we didn't reach mayor the each the the litigation with the and that's we're going to do before just one matter to go and thank you very much everybody motion to adjourn no we have to go back continue