all right call the meeting order at 643 PM of the April 3rd 2024 planning board meeting hello my name is Stephanie slish I'm the chair of the planning board all the way to my far right I have Doug Flynn to my direct right I have Jimmy tar who is our alternate chair I have John Jeffers to my left Lee Bell my far left and then joining us virtually is our assistant Town planner Janelle Frankin um we are without an administrative assistant right now so thank you for bearing with us as we dealt with those technical difficulties um and thanks John for helping us out um first item on the agenda as is always is a public forum this is an opportunity for people who do not have anything that are not currently on the agenda but want to bring something forward to um talk to the planning board about bring to our attention now is the time to do so so anyone here for public forum can speak now not we can move to close public forum um we have um some folks here for I know we our idea was to have the informal discussions first before we went into the bylaw change um but given the time CH the time delay for us starting it is kind of time for the zoning bylaw so I don't I feel like for the sake of the folks who are here we should probably have them go first and we talk about the um the public hearing after if that's all right agreed okay um so we're gonna go to the form formal discussion piece first and we're going to talk with Bill Lacy from Bridge Street about a new home with a one-bedroom apartment over the garage please come forward and sit down and uh give us the Spiel yeah we'll brings you here tonight all right well good evening everyone my name is Bill Lacy I'm a lifelong resident had field born and raised here for the last 56 years um my family's home and property has been located at 76 to White Street over that time um including two adjoining building Lots 101 and 103 Bridge Street my brother John um has since uh built a home on one of them lots and I am in the planning stages now of building uh my home on the other lot I'm here today to request a change from excuse me from the previously approved uh single family home by both the planning board and Conservation Commission to uh add an additional 586 square foot accessory dwelling above my garage um the reason I asked for this additional residence is to help offset any future hardships that may arise um my plans are also to live out my life here in Hatfield and on our land I believe this will also help benefit the town in multiple ways including new customers for our businesses in turn creating additional tax revenue for the town to invest in more Road schools or any of our Public Services I'd like to thank everyone in advance for your time and consideration on this matter thank you all right so just so the Public's aware back in 2007 I believe um a plans were approved for a shared driveway with two lots just I'm just describing it for the public yes that's correct um and in that that has 400 feet of Frontage that lot uh I'm sorry 200 feet of Frontage yes um yeah I'm just pulling up this other this picture is better the bigger one that you sent us yes thank you so what if we already approved yeah so we approved face that has so it has enough Frontage for lot so so what you're coming before us is about the accessory dwelling unit basically correct antis um updated yeah so how many square feet is the house gonna be uh the house is I believe 1,800 Square F feet 1,800 and the accessory department is 5 something 58 I believe yeah because we don't um I think it's 900 square feet or a th000 square feet is our current accessory dwelling unit byas that's fine with that my only I need to look up again here about it seems like because it's attached to that meets our current bylaws if you we were bringing our public hearing is on a detached accessory dwelling unit bio that we're going to bring to town meeting in May so you're but if you're ATT that it's attached that's already we already allow that um I'm trying to figure look here does they do they have to come to us for an accessory dwelling unit currently I don't believe so is it I'm wondering if it's just through um quickly checking yeah I'm looking here too um yes it's allowed standards Allowed by right it's allowed by right so yeah you don't need no action before it sounds like you don't need we don't even need any official approval for this uh considering it's attached I just wanted to bring It Forward because it's been a while that was why you building inspector you said you should just have you know at least an informal meeting or a meeting with the planning board and the Conservation Commission just yeah I think the conservation will be the thing that they'll you know they have a bigger dog in the fight I guess you so to speak because everything's above seems to be above board here and we don't have we don't dictate home buildings um and we allow accessory apartments that are attached to not have to come through us they can just go with through the um building inspector it would just be anything related to the Conservation Commission considering considering there's uh wetlands and stuff there yeah all the all the Hoops were jumped through for us but yeah everything was done correctly you know back in 2007 so it's just everything was just wanted to update and letting everyone know what's going on yes thank you and we really appreciate you coming in advance instead of coming and fighting no I'd rather just get things done right absolutely quite honestly we've talking about these kind of these kind of things uh off and on for for a bit and this is this is right in the Wheelhouse yeah with the with the apartment right yeah yeah okay so yeah that's easy this easy for us thank you thanks Billy good luck with KH thank you um just a question procedurally anybody who's going to propose a standard dwelling on a on a conforming lot they're going to bring a plan to the building inspector and the building inspector is going to just make sure that it conforms in terms of setbacks anyways right that's part of this process so we don't even have to worry about that okay y fair enough yep easy peasy good put that one away all right um next we have Richie corza from 35 Lind seed just discuss to discuss two lots in the property like like to split the Lots want to see these plans yeah just so we know what you're talking about that might be helpful need this or um that we can't really use that right now but want one or we just drop one right here you doing sure so but this is should be fine just with these two so so what um can you explain just what you're thinking of got one lot I don't know it's 45 or I just want to make another building lot of it we're just talking about these two lots y yeah plenty plenty of Frontage Frontage plenty of acreage it's an anr y wouldn't even be under up that seems like a basic yeah anr form so it would Bas Janelle that would become there would be a special form that he would need to fill out and come to us and we would then sign it is that how that works do we yeah so if there is adequate Frontage and um space for emergency vehicles right for um arriving to the site then it was a a form a I believe in the town clerk's office so if you request a form a from the town clerk um they'll be able to help you get that set up and that will um come to us and then uh off to the registry of deeds and then you'll be S is that the application for me you have in your hand ah all um is there an application fee that's been paid you might we have that here J at least the form a the form a is it signed by um anyone from the clerk's office or looks like it's ready to be submitted yeah yeah it's dated a couple days fill out I'm actually not sure what our fee is or he's done he's done this before you only need one of those so I would say that you you're so I'm one I'm sure if we had an administrative assistant they would have probably told you what to do to have this all ready to go for this um take it to the town for this meeting oh wait pleas just canum it I think though if he's um it says though file two and it says you file two two copies of those with the fee which we all know right now and plus the original mile our plan and eight copies either Town Clerk or the planning board it says so I think we don't have the fee amount right now we're not prepared to write your receipt I would recommend you take this to Elena who knows exactly what you're going to charge it to who town clerk Elena's not here now but you know during business Elena WX she'll be able to cut your receipt and she'll stamp this yeah she's Monday Tuesday and Thursday and well I mean I think we can still I think we can still approve it I don't see any reason why we couldn't couldn't he leave the Vellum with us and we're gonna be together again on Monday night this is submitting basically to start an anr right that's what this is right I know but the fact is isn't on the agenda saying anr I don't know I just want to make sure we do this the right way as opposed to having him come and do this again I don't know um well it says it's got send submitt it to one party us or the town clerk with fees and a bunch of other stuff so so he gets it right the first time right so the other thing is we are meeting next Wednesday also so we can get the date of that so we can always sign it and do it Wednesday if we don't do it if we need to do it that way so yeah so I think that we could approve it now and then we can set I mean sign the the documents then yeah it's just a matter of documents and if no and if we actually had to have it on the agenda certain way we can do it again then right is that the ideas we're going to put this on the agenda for next week anyways formally I think we just went through it I mean I I have no problem with voting to endorse right nowal why don't we endorse it now and then we'll find out he's off the agenda right right okay sorry so so be clear we're gonna we're gonna vote now to be all set to approve this with a condition of paying the fee tomorrow so yeah with a contingency on the fee and then and then we'll sign theum our our next yeah that's okay I just want to make sure it's clear so we're just goingon to vote tonight condition that he pays every everything and then in the meantime we're also just going to double check that because it isn't on the agenda officially is that okay that we did this and if not we'll just do it again at our meeting next week that we're gonna have okay so at the earliest this will be fine by the end of the week and if not it'll be next week yeah we sign really need to put up a formal vote until because he's just submitting this right now he's going to submit this and that's going to be like U andr that's what we that's how we yeah and the only hiccup too is like we don't have an administrative system so I need to make sure like we sign the thing the right way and all that so all right so following these instructions two copies of that form acobs your plans to the town cler we're getting together we're meeting again from tonight so we'll get the Vellum signed what time uh what is ites 630 start at 6 not not sure here for that can we talk about endorsing no you don't even have to be here for that yeah can't endorse it if you leave theum Vellum with Elena we can get it signed without you there we can sign whatever cop leave it leave her and give her the give her the fee and then we'll sign it the next time we're together and it'll be it be squared away you don't need any of these yeah we do no but with with when you submit it formally which you can't do to us because we don't know the fee and can't take your fee when you give it to her you want she wants eight copies of that and the original which we will sign the thick one yeah you can have here so you have the so you have the eight one and that's just to make it all official so you've officially submitted your plan and then we vote so it'll be all set then we vote we don't need to review this but it has to be submitted as per that instr sorry that because they can hang up if anything goes wrong you know we don't take at the right time I'd like to make a m that we that we accept this I'd like to make a motion that we accept this anr as proposed with the contingency on the fee being presented by Mr coza to the town clerk and we will sign this at our next meeting on Wednesday the other thing is we can just wait to vote on Wednesday we can we can do that we can put that off okay then I retract that in the in the an anr handbook online um it says if the planning board determines that a plan does not require approval under the supervision control law it should immediately without a public hearing endorse the plan um approval under subdivision control law not required um just moved or words of similar import is the hold up here but we don't really usually have a public hearing or anything for in ours anyway we do normally just what you say so can I offer a slightly a different alternative please he's here it's a simple plan we can easily determine that the two conditions are being met we can vote to endorse but then don't go away yet we can vote to endorse but then hold the plan yeah we'll transmit it to and then you come back with your application pay the fee and your plans are signed you take them away you could do that tomorrow right that's just what I think that's was just and I have no problem doing that second okay cool then we can do that hi go ahead we're just making you get a little work Richie yeah that's a yeah something that like so we'll hold on to those and submit them tomorrow so we doesn't really need a vote right so has agreed we don't right vote we just need to sign it right sign which is our end yeah I mean you formally vote to endorse say you find that the plan does not require sub approval but yet but that's what he's going to submit to anr we just here yes perfect that's submitted we'll sign them and you can pick him up with a l so I just you got two copies of that and the fee and the fee and make sure she has the plans already so yeah and I I can pick these up Friday you said once we get them all probably tomorrow her office is closed on Friday so I would suggest going tomorrow is that all right can you pull it off tomorrow yeah okay okay thank you thank you thank you thanks for the back and forth on this Rich thanks Rich thanks for bringing such a complete plans yeah he it all app it all we just don't know Fe you know right we appreciate when you come ready yeah you know some people have come not ready and they get antsy because we can't necessarily do anything because they're not ready yet no he had it all yeah digital plans if we need good work I think it would be frowned upon too if we were to accept money here and then not have a place to it overnight none of us are bonded we can't receive money thank you Janelle yeah all right last um discussion before we do our public hearing is Lisa eus of eus group 57 North Street hi Lisa hello thank you this is an informal request I want to be clear on that um and I believe you all I hope have my letter in front of you um I've been on North Street for 41 years very happily been working on the property the entire time um I'm looking to see if it's feasible should I want to and decide to turn what was a falling down Barn I renovated it into uh office space in 93 and now everything's remote I'm retired I'm thinking about making additional Apartments to help with the shortage of housing have some other income and not have the barn fall into disuse um I haven't decided I want to do it but if I do I need to know and have the town's blessing and approval which is how I've done everything else uh everything is attached the house to the other two family that was my parents place which is attached to the barn it's all one it's all one attached is it all attached yes okay yeah it is and on the property there's two dwellings already yes and I am Z to family okay and I did that formally I think it was either 16 or 17 okay a single fam and a two fam or two single families attack two single family homes um it looks and I'm guessing it's rural residential Zone in the rural res well that's I'm not sure I think it's mixed use um it it used to be a much larger property and it was Zone partial business the the Tobacco Warehouse was next door which is now I don't own it it's still zoned I think industrial I'm not sure I don't own that I don't run that um I was grandfathered into a homebased business which I had moved into the barn um you know I never had any kind of retail business so I never look to even know um as far as I know residential and perhaps mixed use I could certainly use some guidance on Lisa how big is the property whole property four and a half acres Janelle are you are dog are you looking up to see what try to figure out if what it's zone for a lot uh the the big question is what zone North Street is whether it's R residential or it's kind of that chunk right there right that I think it's it's 57 if it's rural residential then it's a special permit for a multif family dwelling townhouse three to six dwelling units yeah so we would allow up to six dwelling units if it's rural residential yeah but I'd imagine it's either rural residential or business anyway I would between the two we have to just confirm Janelle if you could figure out I don't know if you have exactly she's digging in looks like she's digging in two units now you're allowed to but it looks like you're allowed to have up to six oh with a special permit have to a special permit okay so that means you need to come to us with with plans so you might need to put some you know I know you might a lot of people might want to come and see if yes yes we're going to approve it but we need to see I mean I I I have my vision of what I want it can be done it can't that's all I really jacking for sure onck for sure on the zoning right I don't one other I think one other question because the structure is in place with all almost all the infrastructure do you think I need architect plans or just a design plan that wouldn't I don't know if we could recommend which would be the better plan want plan board doesn't regulate the interior of delling spaces so we don't need floor plans uh we don't need structural plans or anything like that we would attention right attention the exterior elevations would be helpful okay hang on exterior elevation with Bas and just what the building's going to look like from the outside and then what's called the site plan which is the bird's eyee view of the lot as it will be okay showing walkways parking areas if you're doing anything with um landscaping that's all so if you have an architect or someone you can they they should be familiar working with different towns planning so it's all lined out um the good news is there's GNA be almost nothing changed it's all gonna be on the inside but another thing is we just passed Hatfield design guidelines standards for things that like um which it's kind of in line of trying to keep with the rural character and any sort of thing that that necessarily probably won't take much effect effect if you're not changing the exterior of the place at all the and and we're not like hard and fast on those partic like those are suggestions and that we would prefer are those guidelines on the website they are not yet because we are don't have an administrative assistant but we passed them at our last meeting and are supp well I'm not gonna be ready to go if I go for a little while but just knowing I need to follow those guidelines Janelle were you gonna say anything I had so um it is in the rural residential district and I just wanted to make sure is it that there's only going to be slight exterior changes or no exterior changes at all the only thing that might be needed is one additional entrance staircase that there is already an entrance but it would need a new staircase that is the only thing that I am aware of right now okay I don't think and the only reason I um ask about that point is because looking at the property map it seems like um this structure already is very close to the the um uh side setbacks um like when measuring it it looks like does that sound familiar to you like your h house is very close to the property line um one side of it is close it goes way back by several Acres behind it but the right side it's actually the building is not that close to the property line when I think about it there's a good I would say probably the size of this room yeah we have certain setback requirements usually like 15 um from a side yard so I think what she's trying to get at is if you did uh right now it's a pre-existing non-conforming structure a grandfathered kind of structure um and if for whatever reason it didn't meet the right type of setbacks from um our zoning bylaws if you were to alter the outside of it then you'd have to bring it into compliance and it might not be allowed so I think it's what she's trying to say is like being conscious of I got that the other thing to pay attention to is is that served by septic or by Town sewer it was put in in 17 but it's served by septic yes you're going to need to make sure that the septic has the capacity for additional units might need to do and that that's not something that the planning board would review that's the Board of Health okay um but that's that's probably that's probably your next step that's your next stop yeah would be the voard of Health yeah to have them what do you need to do to your septic to make it compliant with make a make it compliant with you know whatever size you want it to do how do I find out if it's compliant or not talk to Health Board of Health they'll know yeah they're the authority on what what septics can do in okay please here take this this is my copy of the design guidelines for Hatfield so you have an idea what's going on you're welcome thanks for filling in tonight um yeah do you have any other questions or I think you have enough all your fancy plans once you decide on what you want to do you know you can riff back and forth with your designer or your Builder all that expensive drawings I you saw I got that's going to go to building it's going to get you your building perit right right are zoning laws you're okay with what you're trying to and I'm Z rural residential up to but I always yeah and like the Board of Health might say you know your current you know you might have figure out what size might work for you given what you might need to do with a septic so yeah I'm not really worried because of how many people over the I think I've always that's just a state regulation thing right isn't it yeah you attend full-time or part-time emplo no and it was changed over many many years the last few years been was two to four there are definitely different requirements for dwellings versus offices in terms of septic capacity oh that should be your next step yeah okay I appreciate that yeah congratulations on the cookbook thing thank you appreciate it thank you all thank you I love living in hfield said great book yep she has had the best cooked in the country you have something in your house in your kitchen that giant walk that stand mounted walk funny that's one that I remember you donate you donated tons of cookbooks to sack when we were raising money for the for athletics yeah no I do whatever I can I know I've come to your house a bunch of times and scored lots of books for them so we still have a few but I'm G to thank you all you're welcome it's a pleasure um all right now it's time for our public hearing on the I'm filling up uh the public hearing notice that I can read hold on L night all right so um going to open the public hearing for the the planning board hearing on the Z accessory dwelling unit bylaw update so I'm going to read the public hearing public hearing will conduct a hybrid public hearing oops sorry uh the the planning board will conduct a public hearing on Wednesday April 3rd 2024 at 6:45 p.m. in town hall to consider an amendment to section 3.4.4 accessory Apartments of the Town zoning B laws by including detached dwelling units and encouraging Ada design proposed amendments to the zoning bylaws to be found on file at the Town Hall clerk's office and available for public inspection during town clerk's regular business hours one I see have 88 that's the one that was posted here doesn't have encourage any yes thank you [Music] um now we'll be allow uh comments from any supporters of the project that'll be entertained anyone's here in support of the detached dwelling unit uh amendments to our bylaw which includes detached and mentions accessible design any comments from opponents of the project um all right with did we receive any correspondence we did not receive any correspondence um we did not receive any correspondence but we do have three people who are interested in building detached adus right now okay there we so well we can we can guess that as a show of support that's that's fair um so with that we can now do we deliberate do we can we close the hearing now and then deliberate or is there Clos hearing and yeah we've already approved this I think Janelle has a couple comments she wants to say but that can be in the our own board deliberations piece so that's you yes so I just have a couple of comments on things that I would want to change and maybe um like I'll be coming in this Friday I can change them and then have final printed copies for people to look at um at the next meeting but after talking to Town Council um we were advised um that the ADI the ADA compliance factor in this section um could be an issue just because uh General law 40a Section 3 states that no zoning bylaw shall regulate or restrict the interior area of a single family residential building and um it seems that it would be because an AB is considered an accessory use um it would not change the property into two family use it would still be two single family units um so unfortunately I don't think that we can State outright that we like request that their um the inside is Ada accessible or globally accessible or whatever language that be that makes I mean that makes sense must or do we have encourage do we have encouraged does that can you read the specific language that we're talking about yeah we use yeah up this in this computer not Adu Ada um okay so encourage compliance with a State Building Code and ada8 standards um okay so I think actually um we already had encourage I think that's I don't think we can be in trouble just encouraging people could just say no right yeah we're not demanding anything where's what what's the specific section that we're looking at it's just um or can you see my shared screen right now it looks very small very very small though the way that it's 3.4.4 point Y so it's 3.4.4 e um encourage compliance of State Building Code and Ada standards somebody else um there was no issue with forbidding the shortterm rental B um so we have it defined in our bylaws is under 28 days so that's good that's good news and then um the other recommendation that Town Council had was um recommending that the allowance of an Adu for a lot under 60,000 square feet be by um special permit instead of or with site plan review included rather than just site plan review alone just so that we have a little bit more Authority um was that was that a requirement or is that a suggestion that is not a requirement it was it was his suggestion we do not have to do that so I know originally we're doing it this way to try and uh streamline the process more yeah um he was hesitant for us to do that but it's it's not a deal breaker we can still do that something for you guys to consider so I guess the um does the language currently require site plan review for less than 60,000 square feet or the language as prop I'm sorry as proposed I apologize yes so as proposed um an 80 under 6,000 um Square feet uh been alone hold on let me review this real quick sorry I wish I had it in front of me so right now it's site plan review alone so on a lot with less than 60,000 square feet if somebody proposes a detached Adu they would still need to come to the planning board for site plan review the only difference is it wouldn't be a public publicly noticed and notice would not go to a Butters and yeah and so he's he's suggesting doing um special permit with site plan reviews that that um the planning board uh so that would be the difference with the special permit pieces that abutters would be notified abutters would be notified there's a publication in the newspaper um stricter timeline um makes it considerably more expensive from from a planning perspective site plan review go when you go into site plan review it's assumed that the answer is yes and the planning board reserves the right to condition the the their approval special permit implies that the answer could be no and any single negative aspect can be used as justification for the no that's the so how how we have it right now exactly is we can like make conditions and try change design a bit but he's suggesting that we would do special permit as well um if we wanted to reject something and this would only be the case for small under like very small Parcels as under 60,000 squet because otherwise what we're approving is just allowing it to just go through building inspector otherwise if it's larger than that for detached that's the idea I mean it would still be required to meet septic or Wastewater requirements zoning setback would have to come before us area limitations that sort of thing right so what do folks feel how do folks feel about that because I I mean like I'm put I'm trying to play out here what could you know it's a smaller lot maybe your neighbor's really close and someone wants to put in a well 60,000 40 some thousand 44,000 is an acre right so I mean an acre is a is a good siiz building lot um given the proper Frontage I don't see where somebody neighbor would have the the uh the reason to fight about it right but we're saying if it's smaller than that so let's say it's my house that I have twoth thirds of an acre neighborhood my neighborhood is all two3 of an yard 200t of Frontage I don't think so okay well but I mean the thing is you could put you could put an auxiliary building 15t off of any one of those boundaries and it and you know to a point that Doug made at a prior meeting you know the the foot footprint of a building doesn't NE doesn't necessitate the effect on what's going on around people you know and the the traffic in and out and he said that a building that has people and it doesn't look any different than any other accessory accessory dwelling large shed is basically this right so I'm saying that how you know aside from I guess privacy issues that neighbors may have that 15ot off ET is kind of a a norm you know it's no different than someone being out and working in their shop you know 15 feet off of your and that's that's past us that's zoning build yeah I I I I mean I I think that if if you can put the the the building that has the the the square footage that we're requiring that's under the square footage we're requiring and it fits within the offsets of your lot I I say why not so that's so you're going with just the plan review so we're being encouraged to make it such that it's a special fir so there we have more basically right and and I think the pro pro also is the neighbors gets get informed yeah I like that what's the cost differential J know what kind of money are we talking about for um for special so for to apply for a public hear and you need to post it in The Gazette and that's like anywhere from to $400 yes 500 500 all right what else what other fees Fe $300 is that what it is plan review I mean what we're talking about um I think it's just a fee difference of $150 for application we making it gra pretty much thumbs up to 650 and then we're probably gonna give you plus an engineered site plan plus elevations that sort a couple Grand yeah but would we they would need that to build it anyways do we need that for a special plan which is what we're being recommended to make this thing everybody needs special plan for site plan review we would still need those we're making it cost we're putting it we're putting it up only peny on like by 600 bucks of something we're trying to know because you got to you apply you have to put in a stamp plan stamp plans are thousands of dollars or you know well the site plan review we also we would want to see that though too but we wouldn't require by law a stamp plan we could just take a design we're like we're already encouraging this we like your drawing it could be somebody something you drew here's as long as you're within these boundaries you drew it with a pain we're thumbs up in this and now we're there's car being asked to make onerous and more much more costly process something that we're already kind of encouraging the temperature of the board is such that we want yeah yeah now that we're being encouraged when we've already taken the initiatives that we want to push this and make it easier on people say no make it even more diff the other thing a special permit requires is a four fifths majority you can't pass a special permit by three out of five there you go see so it's it's we've already agreed that we want this to be at least that's the way interpreting last V and it's already a site Clan review currently with a with an attach ATT attached right so I mean the difference being one is more easy to fail whereas with the way we have it we we're proposing it is we're pretty much open to most of these PLS there's not much as long as you're within yeah I I guess I guess the only thing I guess I guess um you know if we're if we're bickering over over a $600 fee here I mean no it's a St stamp drawings are way past that 650 500 for the paper 100 saying I guess I guess what I'm saying is that that you know having just having this having the ability to go out and have that accessory dwelling that's that's that's big that's the big thing yeah yeah I'm not D don't don't yeah don't discount that but I mean if it's if he's just saying we should do this it's good it's good advice we want to have more control yeah gives us more hand in the review whereas so the you go okay thanks Janelle uh the site plan review and again for lots that are 60,000 square feet down to a minimum lot size which I think is an acre right I don't think that unless what is it 40,000 or something 44,500 so talking that that just those small amount of lots that are between an acre and an acre and a third um they're not allowed at all on non-conforming Lots I believe I believe that's the way the language is written um that's most of the Lots in half field though s well that could be that could be but uh site plan review still gives the planning board the ability to condition its approval so if you say well the neighbors express some concern about privacy you can say we're going to approve this but you are required to put in not only 5 foot stockade fence along the boundary but also a natural hedge R along the boundary the person now they now have to do that but I guess that I guess you kind of have put a voice to my specific concern with with the streamlining that John is is suggesting I mean not that I disagree with what he's saying either I mean I I think that that he's right about the board wanting this to happen I'm just concerned that if we give up you know if we just kind of Let It Go and see what happens that once it's gone it's gone and my only and my only I wish there was a way to keep it site planer view but you to still have to notify the abuts for example right like because my thing is related to you're saying if a neighbor's concerned about privacy how would the neighbor know that this Project's even on the table notification but's right yeah could we do that you you can also you can also come in if the person comes in with a plan site plan review and they show a a new Adu 15t off the side Lot line and their neighbor's house is for some reason right opposite that you could say Have you talked about this with with your neighbor and if the person says no you say why don't you invite your neighbor to write a letter of support and we'll continue this to our next meeting and that would inform more that would you know a site plan review doesn't mean you can't do some some sort of introspection on the project okay so perhaps that's something that we should have included in in the bylaw as well rather than just waiting until someone comes to a meeting for that we opt to go with site plan review as Town Council recommends no no he's recommending special permit oh I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm confused I'm complaining me too that's what that's what I'm talking about if if we go with special permits then the butters have to be notified and that's mood point to put it into bylaw but I don't I think we're all leaning more I don't want to speak I'm leaning more towards site plan review but I do wish there was some way like I said for Neighbors to me to notify in some way well I mean if that's your concern I very much suggest we just put with this bot you got to notify your Butters and bring copies of you know certified letters that you did this that's not a problem that can be part of the application process yeah right um that we require with this site plan review you know it's part of a you getting your because conceivably it's a smaller lot anyway you probably have neighbors Etc yeah Special PR what do I think what do we how do we feel about that I like that how did you uh take it Jan know I feel like that's a good compromise to include something in here that states um that we like a butter should be notified so that they can comment because we we have this piece on um if it where did it go if it ruins people's ability to enjoy their own property or have privacy something I just had it up and now it's gone but if we have that just including something as well that states we are looking for um a buts to be notified somewhere in the application process I think that's a good compromise so I will ask Town Council again about including something like that and then I think that's good is there anything else that you wanted to bring up related to this thank you these are good questions for us so thank you uh sorry what was that I said these are good questions for us so thank you cool yeah um I think those were all my points that I wanted to go over for this tonight um I mentioned to Steph so I'd like to have a slide Tech prepared for both the OSD I don't slides are usually not a slide deck is not something that's at town meeting it would be like a one pager or a poster a one yeah yeah um so something like that and then I have access to Big printers and plotters at UMass that I can get something printed um for yeah OSD and then also the Adu or accessory apartment bylaw yeah and Janelle and I Janelle and I are going to work on something this week so hopefully we'll definitely have something to share at our May meeting because then we'll need it for two weeks later at town meeting okay if not sooner we might do it over email because I know that believe the town clerk has to approve any sort of documents that are presented presented at town meeting something like that I remember Marlene saying something like that it might be not related to yeah I have to get clear on that I just want to make sure we don't run into any sort of deadline yeah um anything I ask that I'll send off an email any other questions or comments on our accessory dwelling unit or accessory apartment but now we're changing it to accessory dwelling unit bylaw right well tell your friends about it to go to town meeting and vote about vote um cool thank you Janelle I'm hoping we will have some people show up um when asked if they were to prioritize town meeting versus coming to this meeting I did say town meeting to V so hopefully they will come to that hopefully they have the proper lot sizes though right because that would be a bummer um right because like someone again like myself my two-thirds of an acre can't have my access R dwelling unit MH which is another conversation small steps small steps right okay thank you with that uh we ready to move on closing the public hearing we never did that move to close public hearing second all in favor I I all right the public hearing is closed um then do we need to like approve to approve what we discussed the Amendments we discussed to submit to the town warrant um probably can we get the the final changes to look at next week so we can vote on them then just know exactly what we're talking about yeah that sounds yeah we can do that without discussion probably right yeah we can have a discussion yeah outside of the public hearing that's fine yeah yeah but she's looking to get some guidance yeah on the just for the P okay yep all right that sounds good hopefully we can do that next week um yeah that should just be a condition that's one of the criteria that the planning board looks at for site plan review in this case the a Butters that a Butters at least immediate Butters have been notified and have been notified period yeah not that it's pertinent I don't think that happened with the Doctor's house on Elm Street that it's a different whole different thing well that yeah but the abuts were were none of the abutters were notified yes that was going on back there yep that's a whole different whole story thing uh Janelle any other updates from you um Yes No not tonight um I would want to bring up some unanticipated business that came to our emails yesterday though related to chapter 61a for 106d Road there was I don't know if you got it because I don't think legally like legally they have to notify the planning board so I don't know if you were on that email I did see it I have not opened it yet though yep um yeah it did come in yesterday but it's basically the Northeast Christmas tree Farmland is currently chapter 61a um and they notifi the town interest in selling the property and legally they have to provide notice to us uh us meaning Board of assess planning board in concom and that's a huge parcel yes and they said the property owner would like to see the property preserved for continued use so they're like hoping to find a buyer that would be interested in either farming it or keeping it this Christmas tree Farmland so we have the right of first refusal so the select board basically has asks these boards if we want any input give the select board any input if the property is in is advantageous to the town so we went through this in Westampton and I don't know if everybody familiar with how this works that's how the black Birch property how we yeah the right of first refusal is activated if the seller or the buyer intends to take it out of conservation or to substantially change the use um by coming to the town saying I'm about to sell the property that doesn't automatically trigger their right of first refusal only if he plans to sell it to someone who may buy it and develop it um it's possible and I this is me speculating CPA could be used to buy the development rights on the property that's one Avenue that the town could look at that means it will stay in its existing use in perpetuity um but it still remains in private hands and it could be sold to a farm or someone to do you know that sort of thing um but is it comes with house I think too right Janelle on the property or oh I didn't see that yet I just know when I was looking into like non-developed relatively flat space in Western Hatfield that was like one of the only parcels and then I saw that it was the Christmas tree farm so it's like a green yeah um and so yeah I guess we have to we can reply to the select board saying this is fine with us or we can say have a formal written response if we would like I'll ask the question one of six Depot Road do we care that it's stays in conservation is that the intent is that the desire is that even on us I mean kind of kind of in the way that the master plan kind of comes before us to approve and then Steward in a way yes um it's not solely I don't think it should be solely on us I think it's like to me it's like okay you got to talk to agricultural commission too you got to talk to CPA it's a big thing it's that just like um Janelle you're probably looking at the plan if memory serves I think I looked at that earlier today um there's only there would only be enough Frontage on a on a public way to create a single dwelling lot correct um little foot on Depot Road and then widens out to an open field behind it I only see the Patriot Properties [Music] on I don't know off the top of my head right now yeah you have to dig into it a little bit I take a picture the the other thing is there's only thought it was much bigger there's only public water also on that so I'm thinking like if someone were to go in and develop that they would have connect to the Sewer that there isn't sewer there anything on road probably not so it would be a big undertaking if someone although there's a pump station on the corner of Depot Road in Main Street and and it's 19 Acres yeah that's a large lot right I'm not sure that it has 280 ft of Frontage on Depot Road but that's probably enough Frontage to put a road in well that's that's the thing is the only way that that could get developed for anything other than a single home lot would be as if they wanted to subdivide and then it comes to the plan board right and we would encourage an open space development bylaw the property owner wants to see the property preserve for continued use preserve for that doesn't mean the buyer is going to you know right buyer is not going to be a developer that sees it as they'll pay the the C the freight for taking it out of 61a and put in you know 12 houses or whatever got 19 Acres you got enough Frontage on the road to put a road in of your own it's not that dissimilar to the one that uh that Mitch Mitch M uh manevitz did over on Elm Street where he punched the road in there and put three three or four house Lots in there right and that's a much smaller property maybe just a letter to the select board saying yeah it's in the opinion of the planning board that we would like to see this remain in agricultural use and just leave and leave it at that I mean if that's what we would prefer just a quick thumbs up do what you're gonna do yeah right we don't yeah I agree with you we don't have any authority to say one thing or the other but we support and encourage the owners keep it in agricultural use beldin Farm is preserved and that's close to that right also which is nice to see contiguous land preserved also so that's another component of that the even the owner themselves could also sell uh or or get money for an APR um through the state yeah that takes a long time and you actually don't get as much money as really yeah it's not actually very advantageous for us to for a land owner to go through the whole process of APR to be quite honest which is unfortunate because our past master plan was like APR APR APR and then this one we're like the you the dollar return on investment is not not there it's not there anymore okay um which is another reason why we should be a little more mindful of things like that but um all right well we can just do we feel okay just responding saying like yeah we would like to see this stay Farmland too I would sign that okay I'm in agreement with that support yeah support the homeowner yeah okay I think we still need to be aware that somebody might have an alternative plan for that and they might be willing to Bear all the expense to do that and we would steer them towards an open space development B that's would be my inclination right right well there's what you say there's 19 Acres M right so you know you could put in 10 houses and still have almost half the property preserved in preserved yeah and we are still in a huge housing deficit for affordable housing I don't know if that would be an affordable housing thing or not and buying building any house today today these days is not affordable right um but surely from a budgetary standpoint 10 houses is another for $4.5 Million worth of property on the tax roles something to be said for that and hopefully people would send their kids to the schools here etc etc yeah yeah um there are also studies that show depending on the size of the houses that depending on the size of the house Etc sometimes having single fil films is more of a tax burned on Town actually almost always is right the services that you provide those people who live in those houses that's why they say commercial development is yep better is is better in that regard so so yeah I also just need to say I was thinking about a different parcel so I was so it's not 19 Acres come on Janelle is it I I was thinking about the one there's isn't 126 Mountain Road a Christmas tree farm as well oh yeah yeah that one's preserved actually though okay that's yeah 106 Road do okay yep so I I found that by black Bri I was all yeah and how big is that parcel I just want to make sure um that one is for some reason it's not coming up as a listed address on GIS right now um I don't know why uh is it it's not doesn't Beldon family is it no that's the farm uh the cow Farm down the road um because it's under chapter 61 the assessed value is very very low they probably never got around to sort of calculating the no it does say 19 Acres there it is okay so it is 19 Acres um that does not include about just under one acre which is the a small lot which has the frontage on it it's under the same ownership so just the big bulk field is 19 Acres help back okay total of 20 acres basically okay then yeah I feel comfortable now KN confirming the size of the parcel and stuff I feel comfortable with writing just a note and just saying it to the select board and yeah yeah all right I'll send that we need to vote on anything like that or we okay um any other unanticipated business otherwise we don't have any minutes to approve because have no one to write the minutes have we ever have we do we ever hear back from Mr Brusco have not jel did Mr Brusco ever get back to us uh he has not I've not heard anything from him okay we do have minutes that's the difference people that came tonight and Mr brush the last the last meeting yeah Ashton was still at the last meeting right yes yes and so there should be minutes for that one because I'm going to do minutes for tonight we have minutes for the last meeting oh you do okay sorry I for some reason do not no okay all right does anyone have any comments uh to the minutes I admire the first three sentences of part four well done well done very well done um I have no other comments about it looks fine to me and I would make a motion to approve the minutes as presented I would second that any further discussion all in favor hi I all right um meeting minutes from our March 6th meeting are approved um our next scheduled meeting is for next week April 10th at 6 PM where we're having that's Wednesday said next Wednesday at 6: PM this is a relation I should have kind of said this at the outfront but it's for those who might have been here for a continued hearing for the omasta prop property on ratfield road due to um some posting issues uh we are starting that whole process again on April 10th um at six o'clock so I don't know if that's what you're here for phone earlier speak I thought just was going to be here just to informally present what you sent over yesterday cuz the goal was to make sure there are no sort of glaring issues that we need to work out for the May agenda um because we're hoping to get on that one okay but he's not here I don't feel that I'm qualified to speak about the plan um I have it with me but I don't know what to sort of point out that you could say oh we're gonna bouncing around what is it it's not um it's related to something that'll probably be is going to be before us on May uh May 1 meeting it's um a special permit at 186 North Hatfield Road the fact that it's not on the agenda gives me some pause um could he come next week to that meeting to do again informal just sort of making sure there's nothing because we want to be as sort of prepared as possible for the May meeting in the interest of saving time we always have the informal okay there always the beginning of this bring something up there okay yeah we can um what are we talking about property 186 186 I don't again I don't want to talk about it okay um if it's sens you don't have it on the agenda just identifying the property it's the parcel that the commercial industrial parcel next to the pub yep thank you next to the pub got it yep fair enough yeah cross the street from the pub Jimmy okay um oh on five and 10 Yeah well yeah almost right yeah they came to us a few months ago with a preliminary idea prity anr that we the anr that we approved so y um yes to next April 10th I'm not sure what time because we do have a special hearing that's happening okay um I can work I think he's goingon to be at that hearing too with that represent for that so yeah um yeah we can do that and I get in touch with time do you mind just leaving your email address and we can confirm the time with you yeah I already guess around sevenish but I don't okay um so yes at our next scheduled meeting we are going to have a special hearing process start all over again for the north Hatfield Road par parel we're going to have an inform conversation related to 186 North hfield Road and I also had a request to have an informal conversation before a May meeting for a parcel on 5 and 10 for the pickle ball proposed pickle ball and Tennis facility indoor outdoor um and I wanted to ask you all you know we generally don't have one-off meetings in between meetings unless we really mess up and we did mess up which is why we are having um this meeting for mes but I didn't necessarily want to load up our agenda with other things too but I feel like if we're having this informal conversation we could we should have it my feeling is if we're going to be here let's let's do it get whatever we have to do done any longer right I agree with that too okay I was waiting to respond to the the applicant about whether they would could come to next week's meeting or not based on feeling you guys out on that yeah no let's do it okay great so we'll have that informal conversation as well I think Jeff Squire is also a part of that conversation so perfect gets he gets frequent flyer money for coming here right yeah we should just keep a seat warm for him yeah I know right okay that sounds good I will say though that John is not gonna be available so we won't have it live streamed but we will have it um on goto meeting is this cl to the SE we're fine yep yep all right with that I make a motion we adjourn make it a second second all in favor all all right the meeting of the April 3rd 2024 planning board meeting is adjourned at 7:51 don't lose those St you yes we