all right I call the planning board meeting to order for May 2nd 2024 at 6 o'clock is that Echo GNA be a weird probably um the first part of the agenda as we always have it um oh wait first before I get there I'll introduce myself hi I'm Stephanie slish I'm chair of the planning board yes John we're trying to just avoid from feedback over here normally yeah there's no usually no audio coming out of here in the meantime while John's looking to try to fix that hi I'm Stephanie slish I'm chair of the planning board all the way to my far right I have Doug Finn to my immediate right I have uh Jimmy tar alternate chair to my left I have John jeffris and aten Lee Bell and we have um our assistant Town planner Janelle Franklin joining us virtually great yes and the feedback is gone now so thank you are you there toel can you get off the mic and say okay great thank you thank you all right first item on the agenda as always is public forum this is a time for folks to BR to speak to things that are not on the agenda for tonight so if there's something you want to bring forward to the attention of the board now is the time to do so if not give it a moment if I so everyone's here to speak to something on our agenda tonight great um all right we will close public forum and move into formal discussion which is a hearing uh to consider a special permit and site plan review for Western Earthworks LLC the half field planning board will conduct a public hearing on Thursday May 2nd 2024 at 6: p.m. at Memorial town hall and by remote means via go-to meeting or dial in with an access code to consider an application for a special permit with site plan review by Jack Henderson representing Western Earthworks LLC for table of uses section 3.5.2 7 of the bylaws the applicant proposes to construct a single prefabricated metal building with storage yard to accommodate their commercial operations on tax parcel 206 -42 known as 186 North Hatfield Road the application is available to view in the town clerk's office during regular business hours all right um how public hearing works now that the hearing is is open we will hear um the applicant describe what they're plan to do for the parcel and then the way that we have to do it with public hearing is then we'll hear comments from supporters you address your comments to the board uh not to the applicant and then after we hear comments from support orders um any questions that you ask of us we could then ask the applicant and then we hear comments from opposing folks who oppose the project there's no like in between either you're com commenting on supporting it or commenting on opposing it unfortunately that's the way it's it's set up um and then after you make your comments the board can then ask more questions of the applicant or of any supporter of opponent as necessary then we close the public hearing and the board deliberates and makes a decision whether it will vote to approve deny approve the conditions or vote to continue the hearing if we need more information does everyone understand how that process works great um so now I will turn it over to uh the applicant uh Western Earthworks LLC to discuss their plans for 186 North great thank you uh I'm Jeff s with the Bricker Design Group here on behalf of Jack Henderson and Western Earth Works um as you noted looking at the parcel at 186 North Hatfield Road which is the very North End of of North Hatfield Road where it joins up to uh West Street and actually dead ends um just be on their property uh industrial industrial zone property roughly three acres um there is an existing um single family home on the top of the parcel the Northern end of the parcel with a large detached garage the remainder of the property the South is is primarily undeveloped um the app seeking to reques special permit with Comm review um and I think there was a type under Section 5.27 it wasn't 3527 that may have been our error but it's the same use um construction industry and Supply um business um it's a new 7500 square foot building uh metal uh building again a North Place uh Northern end of the parel to replace the existing um Barn and home one second sorry got to do you mind you can shift sh so there so the public can see a little bit we have pictures as well so um as long as the camera can see it and then as the audience can see it a little bit better thank you and feel free to move your chairs a little bit if you need to on this thank you um so the new building will replace where the existing Barn is um maintain the existing curb cut um it's current location there's a small five car park lot plus a handicap space and front for office staff um a small apron on the southern side of the the building to facilitate access to the garage Bays um but the remainder of the lot is primarily um just gravel surfacing we've got a chain black chaining fence along North Hatfield Road um just for security purposes um with a gate at um at the curb cut um there's no new sight lighting um it's really very sort of a minimal um site plan um their business is primarily um a site construction business um it's not um quite the same asasas who were here before you um about a month ago um it's more for temporary storage of materials that they receive from larger manufacturers before they then go out onto a job site somewhere um so it's really sort of a temporary holding yard for equipment and then any of the materials that they're using at their job sites um it's not for processing of gravel or storage of you know mulches and things like that um um as you noted there's no new sight lighting proposed this is primary primarily um an operation that takes place in uh daylight hours there's no need to light it um storm water management has been provided by way of raising the grade slightly to develop a grass whale along um the East and West sides of the new gravel lot to a you know again shallow wide storage area um on the southern part part of the property we've also got a similar um similar situation in the northeast corner again just to deal with runoff from the uh roof waterer and um the gravel surfacing um that's all just going to be seated and uh loaned and seated um to to look very similar to what it what it does now um there'll be new um sanitary or new uh water service new electrical service to the building coming off of West Street to North Hatfield Road is appropriate um there's a new septic system design for the rear of the building um currently designed by uh Cold Spring environmental Alan Weiss is doing that design um we did include uh traffic information um so you know as you probably know we use the it standards as the sort of The Benchmark for determining um the um peak week day and peak hour week trips um and there's always these subtle nuances but um this um this use fits into a category that's based on the number of employees and with this particular business they've got um you know roughly seven people of the 30 or so um employees that they have um there's roughly seven that will be at this facility the rest all go to the job directly to the job sites um so primarily like office staff it's primarily office staff some you know uh garage and maintenance staff um but primarily the majority of the workers go to the employees go directly to the job site don't need to come here there are occasional deliveries so with respect to the traffic counts they the only um numbers that it gives you is based on the number of employees so this says that during um a peak week uh week uh average daily trips would be 111 uh peak hour trips during the weekday would be 24 trips in an hour and again that's based on employees based on the number of people that actually use the facility it's actually about half that so 12 trips per hour is is you know what we noted in the summary um So based on the AL just to So based on the algorithm that you're have to use to traffic it produces a higher traffic count than is actually and for this particular use for this use right okay and it's it's not uncommon with a lot of these it standards where you know um certain businesses operate on a different you know function um or different schedule than what the it assumes and so um again it's just the raw number of employees whether they go to the job site or not is sort of you know um dismissed in the it numbers but in this case um there aren't there aren't many employees that visit here so we'll maintain the same traffic patterns on North Hatfield Road those there should be very little impacts um at that end of the roadway um as it does dead end to the north there's still traffic um and adequate turning radi to accommodate trucks um in and out of the site um and then back on the on the West Street so I don't think I have anything further we are proposing screening um new vegetation Street trees along North Hatfield Road and to the South um but again it's you know it's a large open site now and um we large them remain that way do you have a sense of what type of materials will be stored there um Jack kenderson could probably speak more to it more specifically but um hi do you want me to stand sit down here in front of this mic or stand in front of this mic yeah and please sign in too um I'm sorry no that's okay imagine it's a number of pre-cast concrete structures manholes um you know pipe concrete pipe hdb pipe right um yeah no asphalt I don't believe any asphalt okay G please introduce yourself for the for the record also yeah uh Jack Henderson Adams owner of Western Earthworks uh addressing the question of material stored on site um typically any large stock piles of any sort of aggregate or organic material for any one project we're we're purchasing we we work remotely often so we're purchasing that offsite um I would expect uh stock piles to not ever exceed more than maybe a 100 yards which would be the equivalent of five truck loads yeah truck loads of material that material primarily would be stone or aggregate um for the next three years we're performing uh emergency repairs for Mass DOT and that requires us to to carry some of those volumes right um there would be pre-cast uh concrete structures one or two of those at a time and then we're going to have pipe a lot of material that we carry off of uh any project and leave on a stock pile is is stuff that we're removing from completed projects but by no means um with the yard the size uh it would actually it would not benefit us to be stockpiling material there in large volumes because of the the lack of space and yeah it says here that the deliveries that happened would would be the 18 wheeler trucks approximately three times per month on average it's saying yeah um but maybe more during this summer and less in the winter yes it's hard to fluct or to to give an accurate number on that uh on a busy day for uh large commercial truck traffic we could be demobilizing off of a site where we might have five trips in with the five trips out um on average daily uh you're not going to have more than two trucks in and out of there which would be two combination vehicles at a time and we're not trucking company that's not what we do so sounds good is there more you want yeah still sit here yeah but is there anything else you were gonna talk about I didn't have anything more my presentation so have and what are your General hours of your business I know that there's emergency stuff that could happen too but what is yeah General hours during the art you know with construction the working season is compressed to basically march to November December um typically I would expect to see mechanics in there at 6 o' and out of there by 3:30 and 4 um I think the only person that would be in and out of there regularly early and late is going to be myself and the other owner and um we try to respect those hours but between that more so for our employees uh hours for employees are 7 to 330 but 98% of our employees report directly to the job and no one starts the day at this shop the shop would merely be a office and a repair facility for uh repairs on our own equipment I remember you explaining that the last time you were here y that really makes a huge difference to the neighborhood yeah it it would be easily to confuse us with um like a mechanic shop operation but we're it's just a facility it's like a home base MH and what kind of vehicles storage like what size of vehicles are you working with that will be parked there um it out of there our largest pieces of equipment are ranging from 80 to 100,000 PBS our smallest pieces of equipment are maybe 10,000 pounds so your average skid steer or mini um the larger equipment um is going to be coming in there to be repaired those pieces of equipment we don't hang on to very long if if that's going to be sitting there for six months it's going to be sold so that equipment has to be out there producing it's not stuff that we would be keeping and and storing on on site and then you mentioned no lighting plan so no like light lighting up of the the yard the Yard part or anything like that uh no we would probably be anticipating having some um decent lighting around the entrance and exits around the shop uh primarily for any sort of personnel that had to report for an emergency repair like motion activated or something like that lighting inside the shop for pulling out uh highway signs and so on um I I don't anticipate unless we had some sort of reason or a security issue after let's say our first year uh there's no intent of lighting the yard if there was a reason and we had security reasons then yes we would pursue that and light that up regularly yeah the plans as is says not that there there's no plans for excessive lighting just on the building yeah excessive lighting for us is just going to be carrying a higher cost for the building there's going to be your regular there might be some decorative lights on the on the face of the building but nothing that's going to be there regularly any questions from any of my fellow board members I'm really good with this I have a yep D uh the uh gr site grading makes sense um I'm a tiny little bit concerned but only a tiny little bit concerned about the Swale on the North side um because it shows a pre a drop of about three to four feet um looks like where the building is going to be that's going to be elevated two to three feet above existing grade above that corner yeah above that corner and so you drop down pretty quickly on the on the along the north side um I'm assuming the area in the very northeast corner of the property is a Swale for storm water uh yes primarily for any of the runoff from that side of the roof okay you can alleviate my concerns by telling me that you're planning on catching the storm water off the roof and putting it into a dry well it is it will be shed across that into that Swale where it may it may come out in a gutter but the intent is to sheet flow it all that be left on the surface it will be left on the surface we can put it in dry well if that makes a difference I and the issue is with the roof area that dry well will fill up very very quickly so we'll need to put that somewhere I mean that could be located in the sale but if I may just add to your concern Doug this the area we're talking about is is just historically Sandy has has very little water problems at least in that area to my to my knowledge we have perk test done that that would if that would help back that up okay um the only other question I have is uh on sheet number lc11 uh I commend the uh planting plan and appreciate the the efforts to put screening in place along the uh front and the South um is there a choice as to why you didn't put any screening along the north uh no I think it was particularly just because of that Swale um but there is certainly room for you know something um you know something that doesn't block that the function of that Swale I think I think we actually require it in our part part of our B because it's frankly an industrial Zone it's the way that it's adjacent to um whatever that is that R to a residence so yeah we in our bylaws it's we ask for significant screening um if it's yeah and I don't think it has to be as extensive as what because what you have along the front is tremendous it's great but it doesn't have to be that extensive I mean you know basic um Eastern Cedars AR whatever just anything to provide a little natural screening and also to help maybe catch some of the the dust that might happen along the parking lot in the summertime um uh the only other thing is I'm assuming that your building is not going to look like like the picture that we saw you're not going to have red horizontal stripes and stuff like that obviously that's a structural design standard uh cor steel siding Butler Butler Building what color uh our color selection was going to be black and gray and the front was going to have um there' be a veneer Stone on the base with a wood frame entrance uh okay on the main main entrance okay and the gray would be above the way scotting to okay that's all I need thank you any other questions from I'm good no I I just from a landscaping background I really like the way the front's screened along North atfield Road like the use of this property too it's set there for the entire time I've lived in Hatfield right and the footprint that's gonna it's basically the same building footprint give or take yeah that's currently there not a huge increase in and I also important I think to say if it hasn't already or if you uh that the rest of the parcel is is is going to be grabble basically um for to store there any other questions before we hear from yeah through you to the other members of the board does anyone else have a concern about the chain link fence along the front or are we confident that the screening is going to sort of diffuse the look of that um we could in past past um instances we've asked to put like the make it green or put like the green or brown plastic inserts yeah no personally pretty invisible and they're doing a heck of a job making it hiding it my personal thought is the blackchain link behind a good screen is sharp actually I mean I would prefer it to the most other options no I I I don't have that much of a problem with that at all um and I'm sorry give me 20 seconds oh y Janelle I did have a question of why there were no Spruce put in between those first two spots by the gate on the front of the property probably the exist the existing trees would be encroached upon okay okay uh oh Norway spruce okay so Norway spruce somebody helped me out that basically like a um a low or a tall Bush Evergreen right or just I mean they get they get to be sizable trees but it's it's a you know it's a healthy healthy Evergreen okay I think if for the screening of of trees was there a spec on or certain species called we did put some species in there yeah I guess I would ask on the screening for the planting given the soil conditions and how dry it is that we'd have be open to picking a species that would be successful yeah yeah no that's totally fine yeah knowing that after looking at that yeah I have no problem with the chain L uh that's that's fine uh Janelle anything else on your end I did have one more question I'm just thinking about if um I know it's infrequent but when the 18 wheelers are coming to this property and there's a gate there if by chance the gate is closed and there's no one there Manning the gate and they can't enter it what happens if they need to back up or something at the entrance is that something that they can do there because I know it looks like Thea Butters have um Vehicles parked on the street um behind that entrance so I'm just curious if that came up at all or there's there's a lot of room there Janelle has it been taken into consideration there um I don't I mean there's a fair amount of space to be able to turn in before you actually hit the gate um so it would at least be you know mostly off the road I I expect that you know the tail end of the trailer may be sticking out um know I think for for 30 what our purposes would be is uh any sort of off hour truck traffic where the gate might be locked after 3:30 those drivers are going to be our drivers um if they're going to be uh hired drivers with are we only use hired drivers for off hours for when they're delivering or picking up equipment because we're always trying to have equipment on the job for seven or removed from the job move to the next job at night on those hours um ideally that that could be an electronic gate with a kead um some of the guys we work with we tend to work with the same subs and those guys we we will just flat out give a key so that they would have that but it wouldn't be a benefit to us to have any of our equipment going there off hours and not being able to get in the gate and that would that would be something that we wouldn't be having so you're managing against the likelihood of a truck coming up to a gate that they can't get through yeah and any sort of deliveries uh often times we'll have uh building materials delivered or grass seed delivered to our job our our current uh location they're going to be delivering during business hour and the off hour deliveries and truck traffic would be purely for equipment delivery pickup or drop off okay great thank you Janelle uh any other questions before we hear from supporters and opponents project good not for me um all right so also is for there's a clipboard here up front if you came in and haven't signed the clipboard or if we just can move it by the door actually that might be for folks to make sure to sign in this for the record thank you um all right so ja might be excused because if anyone has to come and see yeah thank you they're thank you thanks Jack um all right so now it is time as I mentioned before uh we only have opportunity for people to come and speak speak in support or to come and speak uh in opposition to the project so comments from supporters first will be entertained if you're in support of this project and would like to make comments to the board about the project have any questions please come down and um to this front seat here and address the board um now is the time once okay all right uh now uh comments from opponents of the project will be entertained if anyone would like to make comments um in opposition to this project please come down and speak hi hi uh Virginia Martell uh direct UT to the north of the property um I have several concerns with the project um some of them were voiced one of them being the storm water Swale on the north side of the property um we receive a lot of flooding lately our hous is always wet and damp so that is a concern that there's going to first be a new building structure 7500 sare fet in size and then also an impervious gravel layer across almost three acres perious perious Mast the EP seems to be changing their definitions on what's impervious and perious but um that ra raises a lot of concerns for my house specifically uh so while I appreciate that there is a storm water Swale there my other neighbors on the other side have had a recent pond in the backyard for two months and my house has been flooded since November so this raises a concern for me the uh noise and kind of visible mitigation on the North side where they there's no planting on that side is something also that I would be concerned with uh right now you know we're looking at an old schoolhouse it's a little dilapidated but we knew that moving into it and seeing that change into a large industrial structure on that side on top in what is like a predominant ly residential neighborhood we have the cemetery across the street and while there are some businesses located further up they're not on top of my doorstep and I know I'm speaking from my house only and not for the other ABS so at a minimum we would like to see some sort of barrier put there if it were agreeable to the tenants um noise reduction we already see the gravel the yard that's a couple blocks up from the keer building we can hear every beep and truck that comes in and out of that place all day so now having that on our doorstep is also something that we're concerned about the traffic implications for it constantly have people in our driveway turning around because they miss the sign to North Hatfield Road we have CNS people pull over in front of our yard because they've missed it two miles down the road we can't have those types of trucks pulling into our driveway all the time we have children not we don't have children we have children that come visit us we have lots and nieces and nephews I just don't want that kind of you know imp traffic and implication in our front yard um and then as far as those are pretty much the the like big picture items which I think that have have all been kind of discussed and put out front here um I know that in the application they said that there was going to be some sort of security lighting I just would like to confirm that that security lighting isn't something that's going to be blaring directly into our front house all night or anything like that we've seen issues with other properties where they just they have bad systems and then it's totally disruptive to the neighborhood so those are my main concerns that I would like to just throw and I I just can't see having taking this area that has residents in it and neighborhood in it and kids in it and putting this big fabricated industrial building there so that's it thank you thank you on that property industrial yes I mean it's popped in the middle get it I know that yeah yeah so is there any of that that we want to or any other opponents first of all to the project I would like to speak if if not then uh yeah I think responding to some of these concerns from the a butter directly to the north um is I'd like to hear from uh Jack again and and Jeff je on some of this um yeah sorry yeah um yeah do you want to start on some on some of those yeah I I don't think we have any issue um with additional plantings on the North side um I certainly you know our part part of The Zing requirement but don't have any issue with you know some of screening on that on that North Side um in so far as the Swale goes um you know it's a it's really a function of what's required by mass storm water standards and any new projects um it's really as you know before it's the same really the same impious area building wise that is there now um and all of that roof area it's it's sort of a gable roof on on both those and that's going in that direction now you know it sheet flows and does what it does um we're not really increasing that roof area at all and you know putting it into a Swale that at least manages it um I completely recognize that um groundwater is higher lately we've betting been getting um you know extraordinary rainfalls um but as you know the these are really sandy soils at least based on all the test pits we did so um you know that's a pretty good indication that there's you be some capacity for for that um that you know soil to take take a fair amount of water um so there you know there may be ponding at certain periods during super heavy storms or wet Seasons but it's you know all managed importance with um state and local standards at least can you speak to the water tightness of the gravel lot um it it I mean it it will remain um a gravel surface it does have some imperviousness to it um but it is um it is largely um you know as if you've seen gravel and dirt roads you do get runoff during high volume storms but um for you know for the for the everyday storms they do still do absorb a fair amount of you know a fair amount of water um it's tough to make those 100% impervious um you know they are they are much more impervious than a you know a lawn or you know something similar um but it's not black top but it's not black top and again the the the um runoff and infiltration numbers that we need to use for the storm water calculations all take into account the you know the the imperviousness of of gravel compared to you know soil or other surfaces so it it has been accounted for um so it's you know we do recognize that there is some level of improvement to it though and this is just related to us talking about updating our storm water management pieces of our bylaws to make them a little bit go a little bit above and beyond what is just generally required by but that's not the way they are right now so deal with it what it is and I I think the other ma major concern that I heard was was lighting um and I think that he spoke to that a little bit um maybe yeah let's just put a pin in that are you guys not gonna light it up at night say not gonna light it up at night yeah can yeah please come up y for um in regards to the the lighting we're just like everyone else in this room that's looking to keep track of our own electricity bill we have no intent to be spending anything more on electricity than we need to uh the yard being fenced in would be the first measure of security and in the event that we had any sort of Extreme Measures of of uh theft that we would be doing something where it would be motion sensitive only um in regards to the noise for what we do this location kind of peaked our just because we thought there was a great spot to set up against uh a railroad that runs through there and the time and the noise that the railroads going to produce is going to be far more than anything that we would during regular business hours does the beeping trucks is that a legitimate like do your TR um yeah the beeping would be minimal because the way that the lot is designed we tried to respect the same footprint that was there with the existing building the trucks coming in with the way that the flare is at the road entrance and the space at the front of the shop that all of the trucks for safety are designed to pull in forward where there's limited backing of it's a big circle um the the backup alarms uh when we're talking maybe two to three trucks uh a day at night is going to be minimal but this is not an operation where we're running in and out of here on a daily basis multiple loads multiple trucks multiple truck traffic um and I think there was a concern with um the truck traffic for trucks that Miss CNS um if I speak on a personal level with that that the Over The Road Truckers that we deal with on a regular basis that are delivering some of our materials are far different than some of the skilled drivers that are driving permitted loads that are over 100,000 pounds over multiple States um I have no intent as those types of truck drivers just get in the way of our own operation and if there was an opportunity to put signage up there to keep those guys out of there our spot and location would would not be an option for anyone to be turning around or or or dealing with and if anyone finds that being the case they can reach out to the Hatfield police um put a sign up just put a sign up no trucks turning I mean there already is a sign but you mean Closer by his area yeah um I I mean you say that there's not lighting but I mean I feel like is it fair to say are you going to have a sign a sign that says earthw works construction that's going to be lit up we're really looking for um a place to call home to move our business from Florence to a town that's a lot more accepting as far as our kind of notoriety and advertising a lot of that happens with the work we do and we don't feel like a big need to be putting up a billboard out in front of this building so no lit up sign no and can any lights on the building itself be sconed down yeah we'd be open to any sort of suggestion I mean to me that shielded SC scon down and that really cuts down on any type of um flaring of that light to the neighbors that's a potential condition that we could always put part of that we' feel the need for for some lighting at all the entrances do but as far as anything beyond that I don't see a need for um I have a question um for the opponent who's or the butter I should say um you mentioned having some sort of barrier to to not having to stay view that um building they're talking if we have screening there would it be preferred to have be vegetative screening would you prefer would would a fence be something you'd rather look like I'm just curious what would make it more amendable for that I I mean I think vegetated screening would be the preferred option just to kind of give us back a little bit of you know the trees and everything that kind of used to out there um not that there's a lot of veget not a lot of trees there now but there's a difference between when you have a house as a neighbor versus you know one of the buler buildings so yeah I understand and you know it's I mean it's it's zoned Industrial sounds like Western's not opposed strongly to that right no I I I think our end goal here is to take a property that's been abandoned dilapidated and is currently a hazard for its residents if any child found itself into that building the likelihood of injury is extremely high and we are looking to improve the property with some subtle changes uh and a building and Landscaping that would um basically comment you know the the town and what the town is is looking for so some screening on the North End is complet yes something that with vegetative screening that would be preferred any yeah um I don't mean to delay it and I'm being sensitive of the time and so I'll ask the question if you can't answer it in a minute or less that's fine when we're talking about a drainage soil in the northeast corner can you very very briefly describe how that is constructed how will it be designed so that it can capture the bulk of the storm water that is likely to shed off the north side of that roof and prevent or keep storm water from uh pooling on the surface so there are a couple of different strategies one um is the Overland flow the Sheep flow you know trying not to concentrate into a pipe so you know there's more surface area for that water to infiltrate as it comes across right that you know that Swale that broad Swale you know collects water from one end to the other it has enough pitch to con the water but that's also a large you know lawn grass area that you know also absorbs the water during the larger storms there's a small you know settling Basin at the end there's a larger flat you know Basin again for these large storm events if that does and and it's we've got to calculate this to the 100-year storm plus um if that does overflow we've directed the grading so that it gets into the that channel next to the adjacent to the railroad and so you know it looks like a lot of grading but it's really just you know forcing the water in a certain direction so that it you know follows where it you know where where is ultimately going to exit the property um but by keeping it all vegetated over you know very poor Sandy materials um that's you know the best thing you can do for storm water as opposed to a you know big tank in the ground which I don't right and I wouldn't even I wouldn't like a tank in the ground either so yeah no fair enough thank you you good uh any yeah any other questions from the board Janelle do you have any comments or questions um I just want to make sure I know that it was mentioned at the last meeting and I think someone commented on it but I can't recall what it was uh what was said about the um fire suppression needs for the building if the um water department decides to X that um pipe on the back of the property have you talked to you've talked to fire I'm assuming we're in the process of working through the interior uh engineering of the fire suppression um and also going through some of our interior layout for the workspace in the garage base we have not talked to the fire department at this time okay I just um yeah that was my only that's not concern okay that's uh Doug yeah um you're doing mechanical work in the garage uh yes we would where's the compressor um we have yet to lay out that location but our compressor is uh it's only a five horsepower okay air compressor but it'll be isolated soundwise from so it's not going to create sound outside the building yeah um the workspace and in the the layout next to one of the Bays is basically engineering in that and insulating that because at the same time for noise we're also anticipating of having six offices understood so the noise in the in the garage is going to have to be insulated from the work that's going to take place in the office perfect thank you yep no other questions thank you that was a good question in the audience um yeah I the same fire suppression question thank you um all right any other questions of the applicant otherwise I can uh close can I get a motion to close what time frame we talking about for construction the so if we were to vote hypothetically to approve this tonight there's uh 20day appeal period 20day appeal period from when we filed our decision and we have up to 14 days to file that decision so the earliest it's in a month is around yeah give or take a month from our end right uh we would not anticipate breaking ground until we had a finalized plan that was approved with you're ready to go if you had said plan in 45 days we would be ready to go and and our hopes is that we would be able to call this home by the winter time that'd be great all right um any other questions of the applicant or otherwise we will move can we get a motion to move close the public hearing motion to move the close the public hearing second uh any discussion all in favor I public hearing is is now closed now it's time for the board to deliberate um amongst its um in anticipation of shortcutting this I'd like to make a motion that the project be approved with uh conditions those conditions to include uh all exterior lighting to be down shielded and downward facing to the greatest extent possible unless building code otherwise requires it and that um uh a screening plan be developed and submitted to the planning board for the record that shows um I want to say tiered that's not correct but um uh sufficient natural screening along the North Boundary to provide uh visual um screening from the A buing Properties um sorry were you writing all that down I second I second that motion you hit it okay any discussion the only thing that maybe I would cons is asking them to put some sort of signage up about truck traffic or something like that but other than that I that's fine we can do that everybody good vote we have a motion in a second that I was discussing and all in favor I I I all right um this is approved with those said conditions um we will be in touch and let you know when we file that and everything so great thanks for choosing hatchfield to come to thanks for helping us out and Yeah and um thank you to the abut for coming too really really good concerns and we appreciate it right yeah it's you know it's a challenge when it's an industrial site piece of property surrounded by res rural residential and it's the nature of our zoning meth right now so I mean it is it's an industrial it is y um yes John just to the gentleman's um business if it's 186 West Street then all the truckers will know 186 West Street I've lived at North halfeld Road for 45 years and CNS came in the town not saying what board what department or anything like that made a distinction of 95 North Hatfield Road for a business truck traffic you have trucks still coming down North atfield Road allend oh they in this town you know with the various signs on street corners not a CNS entrance I mentioned the name okay but it's like if this board and it's zoning laws and regulations and everything specifically says 186 West Street then all truck traffic should go go to that designated spot now the person behind the wheel that's another story and it's like how they operate this owner should you know be concerned about drivers but that's another issue and it's just like the speed concerns and things of that nature um assistant said 18 wheelers they're now Triax of trailers Triax of tractors a lot of wheels are turning and goes the speed we have our town police setting up signs saying you know what the speed for the specific section of the town is it's 35 keep it at 35 but it's the person behind the wheel that's the one GPS can tell them to go somewhere in the middle of potato field probably that's where they would wind up Y and that's happened but it's like yeah unfortunately that's not really got boards here saying it's 186 West Street then all the loads should go there I know what the person is saying um five and 10 the truck stop turn around I've had them turn around in my corner for a long long time yeah I understand the we we all the jurisdiction is the police department and then our building our zoning enforcement officers who you need to contact with that stuff because it's related to them not following their permit uh and in educating so I we can't do anything about that right now um so I just want to let everyone know that's who you need to contact to because if enough people keep bringing this up then they'll have to address it and so it's something that we hear peripherally but we it's the zoning Enforcement Officers purview it's related to their to that and I wish could do more on that end but that's not our it's not our jurisdiction so we have other stuff on the agenda tonight um thank you so much uh thanks Jack thanks Jeff thank you thanks Jeff uh the next item on the agenda is a site plan review for uh what is currently zero West Street it's a proposed pickle ball and Tennis facility um and with that um because it's a site plan review it means it doesn't go through as much of a rigorous uh not rigorous it's still rigorous but not through the same process as a special permit process it's a site plan review is a little um less extensive um and so what we'll have here is the applicant share um plans for the parcel and we'll have some questions here and and if anybody in from the audience has any comments or questions please direct them to the board is there going to be another hearing after tonight related to this project this project does not need a public hearing this is a site plan review only and so that's all it needs with um because it's a in a business Zone and uh this what their usage is in a business Zone only requires site plan review according to our bylaws okay start getting a building is bigger than the auto term at Smither CA also you're getting a a parcel that's uh the agriculture for so long so just wanted to say that right up front I know it's we're we have we're stuck with the zoning Mac we have its own business anything that is approved in business Zone can be built in a business Zone um and so we would like to let's have let's hear the applicants have to have to propose before we entertain comments from the public thank you especially opposing comments all righte and also please introduce yourselves uh so I'm gu again from Brook here on behalf of aser and Pat Ro um uh as you knowed looking at the property at zero West Street which is a roughly 8.81 acre business own parcel um it ABS um 91 to the west and Route 5 and 10 West rout East um just turning the pl a little bit it's just oriented got 91s on the north um on this the top of this sheet North is to my uh to my right facing This Way West stre is on the bottom um as you know it's largely a an open agricultural field um there's a handful of commercial businesses um some residential homes around um but um it's just primarily an open um open field uh the request is to seek C approval under Section 4.22 for an amusement a recreation service you know this is a um indoor tennis uh facility indoor tennis and pickle ball facility um it would also include locker rooms um there's a snack bar um Pro Shop um some Gathering space there's no intention of uh food preparation on site so there's no there be no kitchen um there's a small outdoor patio space for um for use during um you know the the nicer weather um you know there may be an occasional food truck or something um but again it wouldn't be um you know something that that would be served out of their own kitchen um there's a parking lot for two parking lots really for um 65 cars there's a smaller lot on the southern end of the property a larger one um directly in front of the building both of those are proposed to be constructed of porous asphalt um so that is one of our uh key sort of storm water management elements on this particular project is that all of those lots are um built with pores asphalt um which you know it's it's amazing um how well that stuff works and so that manages you know all of the storm water from at least parking lots some of the roof water we do have a regular asphalt um aisle proposed on the southernly curb cut just because of the truck traffic the dumpsters in that location um service vehicles um the second curb cut um is proposed further to the north um there is um in addition to the porous asphalt there's a large sort of linear rain garden landscape uh feature proposed between the parking lot and and West Street um that includes a number of plantings and there's also a um a large shallow Basin in the back of the building um a budding 91 to handle um the additional roof water you know a second future phase um is in you know it proposed um with some outdoor courts I don't know how quickly that second phase would come through fruition we have anticipated some storm water area um and detention surface to to handle that additional those additional Port areas but the initial construction really is is for the indoor ports and the um and the parking area get that established and um and see how that you know how how successful that is um again traffic Rel ated um numbers this is another sort of funny one um so they they the it standards um that we use to reference for this particular project are either by the square foot um or by the number of quarts and there's a big difference between those two numbers I don't know why you know why it is so um average daily trips based on square footage um is about 25 trips um when you do it by the number of Courts it's 220 trips it's quite a big difference I you know oftentimes with these sort of Niche uses the there aren't a lot of samples that the it standards can reference so there's this wide range of numbers sometimes um Peak hourly trips um are 24 per square foot or uh 30 based on uh the number of ports um but again I I the there's there's some anomalies with those numbers so um you know take them Grant Sal but there there's a parking lot for 65 cars I think the highest turnover points are going to be when you know there's the the court times um games are you know switching over for for a new um for a new group or new um you know team whatever it may be and so there's going to be a number of people leaving number of people coming and then you know they'll be there for a while um what else we did include a sight lighting plan um the site lighting plan that's included included these courts as being um conceptualized as part of the first phase it was a slightly larger building there was no Lighting in the back um so the lighting really you know was relevant in the back and the parking lot was slightly enlarged and that lighting plan so all of that had just gotten condensed the same number of fixtures um within this within this parking area what you noticed I think in that lighting plan is there's an extra row of parking on that exit Drive um that arcs over that isn't isn't going to be there or lit so um everything is really contained within these these two parking lots and this this one on the South Side um there'll be some um lighting at the entry door we are proposing a a ground sign at the Norther of the entrance that would have um down lit lights um and um what else is there anything else on missing that you would like to add I think you've done a good job okay um Dan um from uh Tom Douglas Architects can speak more to the building um there's a small you know in forer that would contain a lot of the you know more built out facilities um the the roof structure and um form of the larger uh larger building structure that covers the court is um you know more into you see an Athletic Facility um it's a I don't know how you describe the fabric but um it's like a PVC vinyl smooth fabric virtually IND indistinguishable from metal building um pretty standard exterior aesthetic you see the drawings printed a bit faint here I apologize for that but um this would be the street elevation here you've got um 35 ft at the Ridge and uh the building is 410 long by 136 wide about 20 foot bump out at the entrance look look very much like a what you would call building or you know AAL building uh is this a peak Ro going both ways y MH um yeah I don't think I have any thing further I'm having answer questions any questions anyone only how long it takes to build this that's a good question I don't know yeah uh question two months two months to that incl that incl from the foundation to the building being fully enclosed right how about site work site Works probably four months um phase two you're not sure when that would be only I only asked because if yeah yeah that's a pie in the sky okay everything is you know attention on this working yes yes might as well get the approvals up front if you can right that's that's what we um this is in which zone again business business Zone you have on the and the elevation of the roof Ridge but that's above the mean finish grade um what is the roof ridge above the the um average being grade uh in place now um sorry I don't the intent is to the building 35 ft it's pretty flat there 35 ft from the grade currently um we we will be regrading around the building um understand 35 ft from the grade as currently there no it's the grades will be changing around the building I don't know I'd have to look at the grading plan to tell you what it looks as though you're elevating the grade of probably five to six feet coming up to the edges of the building so that the entrances are sort of cut out basically cut into that uh that Swale that goes up to the foundation of the building yeah so that that was one way uh one way to look at it was to to burm up and have it be essentially flat now another way would be to drop the the slab essentially of the building to lower that entrance but we'll keep it at at the Zone requirement of 35 feet to the top of the ridge either way whether that's to the existing mean or the proposed mean that's the maximum height you can get yeah 35 what's the limit that's what the limit is yeah y um did you do a calculation of lot coverage uh I realized it did not do that I noticed it was 70 it's 78% I think for this District uh um at that site or is there Town water at that town water so maximum lock coverage is actually 60% so I think you're probably going to meet that without too much difficulty okay tot Happy to provide that calculation my only other concern is just the the look of the building it's m it's couple nice windows in the front but otherwise it's big corrugated steel sale that's sort the thing maybe that could get broken up by Landscaping but I don't know well we could also you could have it colored yeah just that is a historic district up there 100% historic um yeah that is we did notify those relevant committees to reply back if they had comments on it um we just got this two days ago right yeah and so I also have slight concerns about the misre the misreading of um the process for this because the way that this is re reads in this in here and I apologize to the applicants on this that it says that we although we don't have to have a public hearing we should notify a Butters and of its determination but the to me I the way we read it was oh we notifi the butters of our determination but it says why these are the same in the same sentence I think we still needed to notify a Butters and then and then make a determination and S open question so that's something that I have a question about of if we needed to actually notify the Janelle can you take a look at that yeah it's section 5.5.6 which makes me think we may have to do this again potentially but we have 65 days of filing to approve this and we would 5.5.6 yeah upon any regular meeting public hearing should not be required the way that it should be two separate sentences the way that it's yeah it really should be yeah because my interpretation of this because we did not notify a Butters because site plan R viiew is Falls different criteria and the way that we were interpreting it is that we notify them after the ter termination but the way that it reads in here it makes it seem like we should notify a Butters before the site plan review our bylaws yeah our bylaws say um a public hearing shall not be required however the planning board shall notify all Butters within 300 feet of the application property and shall make its termination within 65 days of filing yep so I believe we need mailing and do this again next meeting no that way what she read didn't say and also is very confusing sorry somebody's got a question um yes is that days prior to your vote to approve this or not oh no we have 65 days from when someone files to vote on this but after you haven't notified the ab so we're determining vot for that we're talking about this right now as a board related to that yes yeah it is interesting so because this is a site plan review there's not like it doesn't have to be 14 days prior so I don't know I think there's some flexibility in how you handle this like if if sent out notifications and no one makes a comment then I think it's pretty clear you don't have to have a public hearing you have to notify all Butters so I think we you have 65 days to make your determination so step back and notify Butters right it doesn't say you have to notify them for you have to notify them within 65 days of the filing so we're well within that are you comfortable with making a decision knowing that some of Butters have not been notified we're not even talking about making a decision yet we're talking about when do we have to notify ABS my opinion is we need to step back and notify the abuts just definitely notify the abutters but that doesn't necessarily mean we can't stop talking about it you know it's that's a known we have to do don't have to stop reviewing the plan because we haven't done that it can we vote on it though is a question five thank you 5.56 it's just like a nuanced thing not requ however apologies for this snapu yeah it says we have to do the two things within 65 days it doesn't say we can up to 64 I guess I guess my my point is that I'm I'm a little bit uncomfortable just with the push back from a Butters not not getting notified prior to this I mean it seems to me that it seems to me the spirit of the way it's written is that the abutters would would be informed about what's going on yep absolutely you know there's no should we must that's that's my that's my yet the previous phrase is there's no public hearing so this is purely informational for the so to me this says we have two months to deal with this at the end of two months we have to have a second meeting and we have to have previously formed all of the abutters we we have 65 days to make the decision 66 days in the applicant can file for constructive approval with the Town Clerk and bypass the planning board but I suspect we're gonna have it done long the way that this works though so I'm just trying to think how we can work this out and that so we have the applicant here they're presenting they present it do we want I don't think we'd have to necessarily have them do it all over again we can still notify the abutters tell them in the notification that they can watch this meeting and then come to our next meeting when we will vote and take some more comment into consideration does that sound perhaps we can perhaps we can finish the site the site presentation table it until the next until until the next meeting inform the abuts give them the opportunity tonight and at our next meeting to address concerns about the project right and watch the inform them that they can always watch I think we could I think we could just run rough shot over the over their concerns but we but that's not the way we do things no right um okay sorry are you has it people been following along have you following along okay so the way that it's phrased in in our bylaws you know good old our good old old byw is not um it basically says we have to notify you but it doesn't have and so in the spirit of wanting to notify the abutters even though it's not clear we're going to keep going with this presentation we're going to notify the abutters but not choose to not vote on this until our next meeting so that the butters can then come with any concerns we'll let them know that they can watch this presentation um and come and look at materials and stuff between now and then in the next and also people that are in support of this this project too right right here right now yeah y exactly um and so with that does that make sense you yeah sure Fair yep okay glad we're working and our apologies for the confusion yes I wanted to make sure we're doing this that we're doing this right anyway um okay you know it's a matter of fairness you know the size of this Project's huge compared to you had a master last week can you just say your name for the record John W senior uh and you you also had H or Jack tonight smaller projects this is you know this compared to the earlier project this Pro building's 10 time almost 10 times bigger than the uh 7500 one that you guys are putting up on on H property so there should be more dialogue and more time to talk about so we dragged a m through a year and a half of hurdles this is my second planning meeting and probably be my last because I'm right across from this atrocity and uh did not be notified even you will be notified I'm sorry you will be notified yeah here joh the only way only way I knew about Stephanie sent me an email all right and I didn't know I thought it was about the you know the Polish property but uh and jell too uh but we met the owners yesterday afternoon we were taken by surprise and not anything against the owners but they have to feel how we felt just you know such short notice on such a huge project yeah they've come to the board come before the board two or three times before and yes I to to kind of introduce themselves and stuff and so I understand that and the fact that there's not a particular public hearing process for this particular project um does you know might might make folks feel that way but I think we're doing the right thing by notifying the butters going forward and doing um you know the right thing the spirit behind of what's in our bylaws um I will I want to go back to the presentation piece though for now if that's okay and finish that piece up before we we take any more comments right now um from the public any more pieces that you wanted to present I don't think so from our end does the board have any questions to the applicant yeah quick question in this packet I'm looking at sheet SL1 lighting what does this have to do with this project like I said that was that was when there was a slightly larger building there was a tail on the back of this and this parking lot was enlarged it's the same site got it and so they didn't reproduce the plan it was simply eliminating a number of light fixtures on so the so the L extending to the West that's shown on this plan was eliminated yes yeah um and the L extending to the east pointing downward on the sheet that you've got right there is shorter than what's on the photometric plan that probably shorter than Park Lot effectively stay yeah and actually yeah this parking lot was a lot larger yeah okay fair enough um we don't also don't have a landscaping plan right uh there should be one in I saw something miss a plan relax Court surf okay I apologize will those tomor but those are those you can see the ghost of it on SL1 yeah we do we do have developing I apologize for that stuff here here yeah number Street trees along the front in the rain Garden um the front is pretty heavily planted but I will certainly yeah I apologize for that omission and what's the also the lot coverage coverage y I've got a note to include that hole um the placement of the rain Garden I guess it's in the southwest side behind the building this yeah um is that was that location specifically chosen for a reason uh mostly because it was directed toward this low area that Culver's underneath 91 and that that drain shed okay um and I think just because it was mostly hidden from you know it's not going to be a deep you know ugly Basin but just to not put it right out in front of public view so it's behind the building it's you know back up backed up against against 91 so it was sort of you know the reason I ask is because it seems like that would be the only obstruction if if there was a desire to move the structure itself further back on the lot um that rain Garden is the only structure that's in place that would prevent and we can certainly that's pretty malleable so we get that's you know there's a certain surface area that we need to provide so we can make that you know if the building wants to move back a little bit we can certainly play with that the back part of that parcel though is uh an overlay District the water oh the water district Watershed overlay District so some of that might come into play if we not being able to move that far back yes it's like literally run like the edges of the back part of that parcel which restricts limit some no understand there only so much you can go okay but we do we do have some flexibility with that Bas what color is the roof supposed to be um I believe it's white off white light okay I just um if I could make a comment I just sent over to you Jeff and Ashley the Hatfield design guidelines and I think when we have a Butters comes the next meeting I think the design of the building is going to be something that comes up just because it's so um large and not a lot of like appealing elements of it to look at um so we have a section in our design guidelines that uh is specifically for large residential retail service or industrial structures uh and i' encourage maybe some changes to the exterior um in preparation for that for the next meeting thank you um any questions otherwise we can hear some from some comments from the audience from the public all right with that thank you we're just saying thank you to the applicants uh so that folks can come to the microphone so we want to make sure that come on John stick with the process please that's not not the way we have to do that people can come up and speak anywhere freely neutrally however comments that they want to make but please address them to the board I don't have too much to say y but uh I'm just concerned uh how he disappear uh the Water swelling to Northwest Conor you know that's where the phas two and that has will have the most impact on our family is phe to the outside pickle ball and Tennis Courts we're concerned about that because of the noise factor and also the hours of operation of something like that on the Outside Inside I'm not so concerned with I don't care really about the building myself but uh you know it's just the outsides uh noise factors and all also uh any drainage that would you know as an AB butter would go through our property okay yep so we've heard in the past about the noise from a pickle ball court outside behind the condos in the center of town which is why that got completely squashed so the noise is a factor uh inside the building not a factor outside the building potentially definitely a factor the Bonk Bonk Bonk Bonk mon back and forth all day depends on what time at night if there are the lights for night games are there you know people that can play till dark on on summer nights yeah I mean hours of operation would be very important for the neighborhood um to deal with any potential noise factors right you don't have any public lighting for any of your athletic fields here uh in in you know publicly owned property I wouldn't want to see it h you know going out to privat uh people just to put up outside lighting courts because you you start a whole new trend so uh yeah I part of my question around like well when is phase two because legally and well for permit I imagine it would be similar for site plan review you have five years to build the plans as is otherwise you have to come back before the board so that's kind of why even though state in this if you go to the state that's actually three years legally our bylaws conflict with the state so you have three five years to act Within whatever you approve so that's kind of why I was asking like if this isn't get built in five years they have to come back before us anyway um would face to so that's kind of why I was asking around that because it would be helpful to know like what actually is going to be happening immediately versus just to clarify this whole project approved as it's presented tonight that would include the outside you know by the schematics and of things we've seen would include the outside courts so right um unless we choose not to unless we choose not to right um don't think we're going to improve it tonight I wonder if we could issue a permit for the inside and leave the outside for a future permitting process yeah that's something we can always consider something we've done before is had that as a condition of the permit that they go to construct it then come back to you to you know deal with any of the concerns so I guess my question is to the potential client if you would not be able to build the outdoor things would you still be willing to build the indoor things yes yeah yeah okay again the outdoor is uh you know kind of a best case scenario down the road and but your project main focus is the indoor fa so your project is in contingent yeah on the outdoor yeah right okay but we also we completely understand the sound problem and the lighting problem and um yeah we we want to get along MH y just some clarification I'm sorry I'm I'm new to town I don't know you um where are you in relation to this proposed project on the North border okay so you're the house immediately to the Northwest second one over it but our property believe buts it on the back it's a triangle yep neighbors so understood okay um okay okay thanks um any other comments John otherwise we can have other people come forward not very now thank you your [Music] imagine mow I live here and this is my house here fourth generation on the FM and uh this is an unbelievable project to learn about secondhand without any notification when we were kids our swimming hole was right there the mil River tracked right through here and then when 91 came through in 6162 they rechanneled the river for about 2 miles west of the southbound lane this entire area is on the bakum path there needs to be an archaeological survey taken before one shovel of dirt gets moved here and that's based solely on the kety uh study which happened 2 mil north of here it's all on the same same Trail right through this property and uh I have multiple questions I don't even know where to begin I mean this the the uh the traffic flow and this court location is right at the end of my driveway I have concern about lighting the other house right here same thing the curb Cuts right there um thankfully I was here for theast thing where it was an inoc a small project and you know very very uh nitpicked uh by the whole board and this thing seems to be just getting bulldozed through uh I just it's it's I don't understand how this can happen thank you you will be notified as in the butter we're legally obliged to do we weren't planning on voting on this project before Butters or not it's are there any uh federal funds subsidizing this project no no okay um any other comments from anyone in that yes please make your way up to the microphone please hi Helen wels I reside at 277 West Street in June of 2023 we received my husband and I John um communication from birkar Design Group uh from Timothy Armstrong the survey manager and I said this is great he reached out to us I reached back to him I spoke with him he was gracious um but he also understood that he couldn't answer my questions so he referred me to Jeffrey Squire and on June 13th I left a message on his machine June 13 2023 and I never heard back so not gracious um but let's move on thank you for the information that I finally did receive about from the information about birkshire Design Group uh dated April 30th 2024 under the ex existing site section the last statement is existing traffic is assumed to be minimal or non-existent has anyone not been on West Street it was reference to the specific site no one drives on that lot no one comes on to or off of the site as it exists now okay thank you it said existing okay all right um under the expected traffic increase at site section you site The Institute of Transportation Engineers it land use code 441 Racket and Tennis Club and average daily trips ADT for analysis of only weekday traffic did any of these references include CNS trucks it doesn't reference private why why would they include CNS trucks because CNS trucks many of them exit from CNS heading north many of the CNS trucks who get off a 91 either dismiss or they miss the entrance so they head north on the North Corridor so that impacts the the travel yeah but it's non sec to this site as I point it's non Secor to this site and the and the traffic that this site generates which is what we're discussing if there's an issue with CNS traffic you need to contact the Northfield police and deal with the zoning and thank you I know that's a repeat and I understand but they do CNS trucks impact traffic on five and 10 so we can't ignore that they behave and they enter where they're supposed to so the fact that these trucks do head south and I would not try you know contact police because there's an erroneous driver who's not really doing anything other than that's the only way that we can help remedy this these concerns that come to the board to us regularly is you have to contact the Hatfield police and you have to talk to the zoning enforcement officer CNS traffic abolutely no bearing on this project I beg to differ well CS traffic is going to be there anyways CNS traffic is going to be what it is given that that's the the State of Affairs right now this project does not impact CNS traffic and CNS traffic doesn't necessarily impact this project except to maybe make it once in a while a little harder to get in and out of it because of the traffic on the road exctly but it does not impact this project and again I beg to differ I'm a resident 277 West street but the thing is those trucks are going up and down the roads every single one of those roads irrespective of this project they're already doing it they come by my house okay so but that has no bearing on this project again you can call the police to yeah make them aware of the problem if if I may the document that you're looking at that was provided by birkshire Design Group was only attempting to analyze new traffic that may be generated as a result of the construction it didn't mean to say that existing traffic was X and this would provide it just speaks to new potential traffic trips thank you and I understand that okay as an abutter of zero West Street I'm against this project because I know that it will increase traffic um and let me continue please um the followup there is the reality the CNS trucks which you're dismissing and I understand why uh when will the weekend traffic analysis information be provided you provided the weekday interestingly enough it does not provide weekend trip numbers which was surprising to us as well does does massot provide counts that for weekend traffic or is is it limited I it's the the it tracks trip generation for particular uses and so it's the it standards right are used to inform the traffic volumes on dot roads do doesn't necessarily estimate traffic usage from particular uses they do for roadways well I guess that's what I was saying it is basically how you can sort of predict what a what a use will generate on a on a given Road right what I'm wondering is whether or not there are traffic counts as they exist right now for the road as it exists there may be traffic accounts available on that section of West Street and one thing we could certainly look is see if that information is available I don't know if it is doesn't always have records but we can certainly look and they will you know they will they will establish a level of service for that roadway so that it ranges from a to F and so you know it's it's based on the number of vehicles and so one thing we can do is insert this traffic generation into that into those numbers if they have any to see what it does and that's you know that ultimately is what dictates you know traffic light stop signs is is those numbers sure the reason I bring it up and kind of to your point is if we're talking about 221 new trips per day uh if you're talking about on King Street where I live that's crazy if you're talking about on West Street if that has 9,000 traffic uh cars going by that point right now 221 is a very small increase in in the grand scheme of things I don't know I don't have a context so I have no way to bit to judge there's a way to get those traffic counts it' be great yeah to see the percentage increase yeah that will that will um clarify what's old and what's new and I didn't mean to I'm sorry that's okay please under the peak hour trip section what are the specific peak hours that you foresee um I don't don't know as though whether it specifies generally their morning you know hours 8 to 9 or evening is you know 4 to six I don't know if it got that specific with with this use again it's you know we've got a standard that we that we use for these calculations as does any traffic engineer and we're Bound by whatever data they have and so well there's a stipulation projected peak hours so that comes from somewhere that you would assume that they would tell you what that peak hour is so I can certainly we usually will specify that if it tells us but it may not it may not it may be just a very generalized peak hour related to that too I would like to see the proposed I know you might not be thinking about this yet but proposed hours of the question of the um facility would also be helpful I think for the for thinking about lighting and than and and to the the point um the final paragraph does note that the the according to the it manual the site is expected to generate a maximum of 31 trips per hour during the heaviest Peak periods or one vehicle roughly every two minutes right okay and that's my why my question is Dain to the peak hours we should know when they are because maybe some of us would avoid going out because this big this really impacts Our Lives because we do utilize um five and 10 we have to because we exit and enter our our home um and it just really does influence um our lifestyle especially if there are evening outside games um do you know the anticipated hours of operation especially for outdoor activities uh again the outdoor we haden't thought too far far ahead because it's kind of not happening yet hypothetical at this point but uh 7 to 8 in the morning is a typical start time for facility like this 9 to 10 in the evening is the typical ending time we would base it on um how what the demand is we're start closing at 10 and no one's we're all the courts are empty well we're not going to pay people to stay there and keep the lights on yeah it's better to be you know go with what you would want to ask for for hours as opposed to say it's only you're going to go open till seven and then come back to us and ask to want it to be nine so and thank you um and based on interest if there's a potential of even 9 to 10 p.m. that concerns me again for sleeping purposes part of our lifestyle um I would definitely I'm just opposed to the this hearing this um under the evaluation section you state in the last uh last two no the second to the last sentence the additional traffic generated by the proposed project will result in an incremental increase in traffic volumes on West Street and then it continues and will have minimum impact on traffic operations to me that's a contradiction I'm not sure of the clarity of that statement I think the comment about your during peak hours it's estimated that there's 30 vehicle trips which equates to one vehicle entering or exiting every two minutes so on a road like five and 10 with the capacity and design speed that it has one additional vehicle trick on a you know every two minutes is going to be negligible difference it's you know it's it's not even going to be noticed on the you know on the larger traffic evaluation you know um scales so that's you know but we can certainly quantify that before but that's essentially what you know high high traffic projects generate you know multiple trips per minute um you know it's it's it's like a grocery store or something this is not people come play for an hour and then leave um or more um um yeah so it's you know it's it's it's not intended to be a you know a fast food restaurant it's people come here park and they'll be there for a number of hours and then leave um my next question was about the outdoor lighting especially facing our um north side of the house yeah so there's no there's no lights proposed for the outdoor courts you know if those were ever developed um we've got all you know we've got a minimal number of poles you know lights just to light the parking lot um you know there may be eight but they're all um they're all dark sky compliant you know fully shielded no turn off after they would be yeah they would be on a timer yeah and turn off when the business when the business closes but the gentleman mentioned that 99 to 10: p.m. might be the potential time for outdoor sure so wouldn't there be lights if they're playing outside that was just of the business that's the hours of potential hours of the business that doesn't necessarily yeah it would be but they might play if it's not if they want to play in the dark maybe I'm pretty I'm pretty sure they're not proposing outdoor Courts at this time right right that they could be proposed in the future but for right now and that would be a future meeting and a future permit so potentially if we decide it that way decide that right so when you vote on this whenever you do within the time frame that you mentioned before you're voting on just this first phase or are you also V voting on the exterior currently it's the whole plan it's the whole plan we were discussing tonight possibly just permitting the building in the parking lot and then talking about making them come back for another round of the outdoor since the the outdoor courts are more of a we'd like to we hope to doesn't necessar the applicant express it as a pipe dream at this point we don't necessarily have to review that right now but the way the plan is in front of us is the whole thing but so I have a legitimate concern if the whole plan is being considered by each member then outdoor recreation is part of that plan okay so lighting is an is a big problem they've said they don't plan to light those there is no lighting proposed there's no lighting proposed except in the play well the sun's up or get off the court so but he did allude to the potential of playing 9 to 10 at night right there's an inside that's the indoor what would be the the uh deadline or the ending of outside Play Daylight that would depend on daylight yeah which goes till 9ine in the summertime that's it sounds like we would have to come back and discuss potentially lots of things [Music] potentially has there been an environment environmental impact study conducted on this property it goes to the if you mean like it goes to the Conservation Commission if they come within 100 foot or 200 foot buffer Wetlands um which most projects tend to avoid that so they don't have to go so they don't have to go to the Conservation Commission so with that they it's not necessary for this pro project along considering the wetlands piece okay and the Aesthetics of the building will will there be a fence uh surrounding at all uh it I mean I think they legally have to around with 91 is that true or no but I know that there is a fence currently there and fence along this yeah it's still part of the project that but there's nothing in the front or around Parts how about on the North side which is where we are impacted most no thanks um through you uh following up on that is there any plans to remove any of the existing vegetation along the North Boundary uh no not currently is that a mixture of species and ages of trees bushes shrubs under story it is predominantly deciduous but it is a range of yeah understory okay some ground cover and if I'm standing on the field in the center of the frontmost outdoor Court looking directly north can I see the neighbor's property looking through those trees in the middle of the winter uh potentially sure I mean it's you know with be trees I mean there's there's a distance there but sure you can see structures so but in the middle of the winter you're not going to be playing outside no that's true in the middle of the summer is it thick enough so it provides visual screening it's pretty pretty thick in there I it's yeah does someone live there in the house that just that's immediately next to it yes someone resides you you're going to reach out to that a butter yep all the butters yeah um thank you okay thank you uh any other comments um from the public we'd like to try to keep them brief also I appreciate that thank you hi I'm Julie P I live at 31 King Street apparently we're neighbors um I'm the person who organizes pickle ball in Hatfield and um so uh and I'm the person whose project got squashed because of so was that intended to be a pun got I know but it's a good one all right um first just in terms of concerns about about traffic uh we have a hundred people that play pickle ball at the elementary school on Sundays and I don't think anybody on Main Street has noticed the traffic because of it um and it's very uh Limited in time so people might generally pickle ball players play for an hour and a half to two hours and they might they come in like in the 15 minute time period before their time comes in so it's not like there's constant traffic that you have to worry about oh it's a peak hour I can't get out of my house it's just very limited in terms of when the traffic is of people coming and going um pickle ball is just incredibly popular and there's a need for indoor spaces um right now uh people in Hatfield who are playing are are going elsewhere around either H Hampton County or over to bayroad tennis club to play it'd be great to be able to have that in town in addition I think it'd be great for Hatfield in terms of drawing people into this town uh people from Northampton are are going um to uh bayroad Tennis Club to play this would be much more convenient for them I know the people that come to play at the elementary school on Sunday are going to the convenience store I know they're going to the various restaurants Town it has an economic impact of having pickle ball in this community and I know this project would do the same thing you know people play a game and then they want to go out and have a beer together they want to go get pizza um it's definitely going to be positive in terms of people's image of Hatfield and in terms of the businesses around Hatfield it's it'll draw people and it'll be good for the town thank you sure any other comments from public yep I apologize for being late I was playing pickle ball it took me 25 minutes to get there you're strongly opposed to this CL right but I'm Su Mormon 30 Bridge Street I'm so excited about this project I can hardly stand it um pickle ball in terms of the community that it has that I've seen it Foster in people and in terms of the friendships and relationships that develop as a result of it remarkable so I hope it happens it I do think it would be great for Hatfield I know there you can't pick up a pickle ball magazine these days without noticing all the technology that's going into making a soundproof [Laughter] ball thank you thanks so I just learned that there are pickle ball magazines there you go about what magazines yeah uh any other comments from the public either here or um oh yep uh John costic uh tun0 and circle um this is amazing to have a indoor tennis facility pickle ball facility in the town of hfield I work for the USA United States tennis Association and the growth of both of these Sports um is phenomenal we talk about an economic impact on these um in the community in traffic I I've worked in tennis for 35 years um I've worked with a lot of indoor facilities that have indoor courts outdoor courts and the impact on the community in an economic standpoint is it's good it's great like um I think someone referenced earlier a lot of people play they go out to restaurants they go out to have a drink um and to have a facility like this in this community um a healthy um lifestyle activity tennis you can play your entire life pickle ball you can play your entire life and just from a USA standpoint um the way it would drive people to come to this community not just to play tennis but to use some of our other resources um and then there was something about traffic um as someone mentioned before the elementary school and all the pickleball players go there and you hardly notice the traffic it would probably be the same with this facility you would hardly notice any additional traffic um so I just want to say like it's we should support something like this for our community um to add something like this would be a phenomenal resource not only for Hatfield but for the surrounding communities thank you thank you thank um any other comments I feel like most people have who are here have spoken um with that I think we all agree that there's some stuff that we need from you anyway um related to what I've have written down lot coverage plan landscape plan uh looking into the design of the building in relation to our design but guidelines um getting a little clear you know spelling out the hours that that you know you're kind of like maybe but we would like to probably see that written down what the proposed hours are land gaving lighting yep they lighting they already had can you address U the Butter's concerns curve Cuts directly across are you movie on those uh driveway locations are they set no we've obviously got to go through mot for ACC question we'd like to we'd like to help sure if we move away from whatever we can do to you know separate we can certainly move um yeah move one or both of them some to that was kind of my biggest concern was that driveway coming directly out malinowski's house yeah it's it's gonna be hitting everybody coming out is going to be hitting directly is there was there a design process where you showed a single entr um I think primarily for emergency access we need we'll need two um is there is there like a one way like an entrance in one way and an exit in a different way is there have you thought maybe looking that way do that yeah it'd be interesting to see a variation on that yeah with a one way in one way out right right where the out comes not facing somebody not facing somebody's driveway or distance away from or you make it this is the entrance and the exits a different way yeah either either or but trying to reduce theal yeah some ways to alleviate those concerns um just so everybody knows we're not trying to Ram this through don't think that we are we're not trying to Ram this through this is going to go through the same nitpicking process that everything else goes through here and we're not going to let it slide so for neighbors that are concerned that we're just fast-tracking this project not happening it's not happening that way you guys I'm sorry if you think that it's going to transpire in a day or two but it's going to take some time this is a big project for a small town and we're GNA nitpick every bit of it so that no one can be obnoxious about it later we're going to fairly we're going to fairly assess the project fairly assess the project and it it's in everybody's best interest to make sure that you know the concern the legitimate concerns that are being raised absolutely we we are here for the concerns of the town yes and if and it follows a slightly different process than what's come to us most recently and so that's what might be a little confusing to People Too is it's it's a different process than a public hearing process which is also a piece of that um the other piece that I didn't the weekend trips thing I don't know if I mentioned that do retail to do current traffic counts yeah trying to see like what percentage increase of the traffic on that road would be would be helpful I think 230 like I said if if you've got a traffic count of 11,000 vehicles per day then 230 additional is especially on a rout five puts it into context I'll at least say that um is there anything else that we would want for our next meeting on this I mean I'd like to see the landscape design yes we got that we registered that one I think you had it okay um hands raised oh yes our NE our meeting is always the first Wednesday of the month so it'll be June except for this one uh June whatever let me pull up no uh June 5th June 5th June 5th says J oh right we're looking at Wednesday June 5th at 6 o'clock thank you yep joh mentioning concern about historic yeah that's up to the historic commission to um bring that forward to us and and then with their opinions on some of that I think um and and the way that historic districts currently are in town there's not a lot of teeth to them and so I know that that is something the historic commission is looking at ways to add more teeth to the historic districts but currently the way it is right now there's some limitations on what what can be done is my understanding yeah we we buted into that we buted that into that over at Benson's a little bit everybody everybody was screaming about the historic diff District but it really doesn't have 18th unfortunately yeah the historic the Historic Society the historic commission really has to chase it hard but by giving this another month that also gives the historic commission a little bit of time to review the plan and offer commentary so yeah and I don't think we were could clearly with the stuff that we're asking for we wouldn't have voted tonight on anything anyway um do we need to make a motion to continue this go ahead I make a motion to table this until our next meeting to continue this until our next meeting and um with the with the stipulation that we inform all the abutters appropriately and then revisit this at our next meeting second any discussion all in favor I I all right so we'll see you all at our next meeting with more information thank you thanks everybody for coming um good things take time good things take time yes right things right and I meant that when I said we're not ramming this through no without a doubt we have a couple little more things on the agenda so if folks want to continue their conversations outside of yo oh excuse me if you'd like to continue your conversations outside we still have a couple things on our agenda thank you all right uh the next piece on the agenda are these two wonderful Flyers that are sitting in your folders Janelle has helped draft these thank you so much Janelle find them now uh yeah they're buried in the packets um we basically we have on Tuesday the 7th there they have to be submitted to the town clerk and town moderator for approval because anything we give there needs to be approved so any feedback or anything related to this I imagine there might be concerns maybe some possible language tweaking but not necessarily edits on the sub substantial pieces these are clean and clear they hit the high points I think they work really well um they help me understand are they Al I the only the only thing wondering is you know is it too jargony or we're going to be up there explaining it so hope if we walk through people through the jargon on here because there is maybe some of the acronyms I mean I see I don't know I suppose once you describe let's go one at a time which one you want to go the color one or the black and white one self-explanatory I guess I'm not yeah they explain first time that's self-explanatory never mind first time they say it they caught it yeah that's right looking at the open space development bylaw one I mean the picture is like it's helpful when you like stare at it but you might need we need to walk people through what that picture is I also think I want where it says key changes no Frontage requirements Lots will still have to meet Title Five I would also like to say and setback requirements because I think yeah yep agreed um I wanted to add because so these flyers were out in town hall and then some people were asking questions about them um and something that came up I I don't know if maybe the photos for the adus are misleading if like less is more with the photos if people agree with that um I was thinking of taking some of them off just because some of them do look more like glorified tin houses keep the garage one yeah and and the the one the big one the big one is fine the the two on the smaller ones on the left and right should had a picture of my house there you go actually uh but it for detached this is for oh this is only for detach okay I say keep the garage one and the the one that you have that's the big one one yeah okay I mean frankly they someone could put a tiny home in that's like with us what are you define strictly speaking a tiny home is a trailer and not a permanent structure so so a permanent structure that is Tiny yeah yeah I got yield spelled wrong at the bottom here that's about it yep no I before E except after C or the we you don't want to go through that or V where are we the only other thing too that like might be confusing to people is the squ change that is just using the square footage right because I'm like what is square footage to an acre I don't know how much footage my own personal lot is for example but like6 I don't that's my only other feedback is people are going to be like well what is 60,000 square feet so we have to be ready with just that answer we don't maybe don't need to about one and a quarter Acres I'm not a boy one and the third acres and then 30,000 square feet is like 68 uh yeah 34 of an acre just under 32 yeah sorry um not that I want one but also like I feel like it's I have mixed feelings about the restrictions but baby steps right baby steps um and then the other piece that I think we need to have an answer to Janelle that do you mind finding the answer to this Lots will still have to meet Title Five regulations people I'm sure someone's going to ask a town meeting well what size is that then so if we could find out from the Board of Health what is the regulations need to get into those weeds it's like you have to follow this law right but I think it makes think like oh no the Board of Health like you got to follow the board of heal law we can we can simplify Lots still have to meet um septic system no I'm saying we can keep this here but I think having the answer ready at town meeting is going to be is is so the answer is the easiest solution right he yeah we just got to get yeah we can sit and back not our department or we just answer the question what's the question the question is if someone asks it says no front people are just going to try to think like oh I can have this house in this tiny lot like what is the title five regulations so what is this what is the size so we need two sentences in our holster ready right for that an answer if someone from town asks what is the size lot that is the smallest size lot required for that and so we can just ask the bo to help that's what small size lot required for for a septic system yeah and if anyone else has some ideas of questions you anticipate getting but if we can brainstorm those and I can we can prepare for them better um that's good too okay the the the expectation is that you're not going to add an Adu unless you have an existing dwelling on that's the open space Oh the open space I'm sorry okay I'm sorry Janelle you got your red pen out I got my blue pen how about the I'm on an open space the Hatfield planning board proposes updates rather than is proposing some let's make it active we are propos the Happ planning board proposes updates there you go Y and then take out the hopes that in hopes that it will just replace it with the word to to incentivize more contact development and preserve o space this bylaw will help create more portable homes so take out can replace with Will and then the last sense by updating in updating this bylaw I suggest by updating this bylaw it's clear and then take out the word newly newly dedicated open space just dedicated just open space dedicated on the dedicated to support future small farms that would be able to operate on the and then the yield at the bottom of the bullets yes that's all I have I like it thank you someone else at one of our public hearing on this was like well Can someone say which Parcels would be affected by this and the answer is BAS basically potentially any parcel that's around 3 acres or larger should we want to put that in a bullet no but we'll have that ready to ask if for a question oh no it's here right here oh no no these are just examples doesn't have a limit what Parcels would be affected any potential parcel with three acres or more well how many is that it's more than just the area size it's how it's developed it's whether there's water or waste water available on the site or whether a septic system would be require we can't provide a definitive answer to that um but start with the idea of three acres or more got to think could entertain something like this yeah what are the big questions opponents are gonna have that's what you gotta be in front of they don't want G be a lot of opponent question they're going to say that the lot SI like the re we have lot we have lot sizes for a reason and we shouldn't be that's going to be the feedback and everyone's going to put a chicken coop in their backyard now you know have renting then I my account argument would be most I would say most of the houses at least in this downtown area do not have 200t and I don't mean downtown like Main Street like within any of the houses that were built before the 80s most of them unless they were farm houses do not even have 200 feet of Frontage and I think everybody is aware that um housing is out of control with housing costs and that we need more affordable options this is one attempt to get that does this mean we're going to get a whole bunch of new development and Tiny lot subdivisions you're going to ruin my the the response would be no because all of this still requires review it doesn't allow anything by right and the planning board you have to trust that the planning board isn't going to approve something that's going to be detrimental to the surrounding neighborhood and it preserved 50% of the potentially developable land are we going to see the character and the landscape of Hatfield change with an increased density in our population in the residential areas would be the biggest question I would think would be on people's and I would be like either if someone wants to develop a piece their parcel let's parcel it these Parcels regardless if someone wants to develop it they're going to develop it it's either going to be AAC with half with ACR Siz Lots probably $700,000 Plus Homes and answer our attempt on this is to preserve as much land as possible and still protect and still protect the interest of the land owner who wants to develop which would answer the question as to saving the landscape and fabric of the town it's it's the counterbalance of prot of protecting the character in town I clearly see going to happen I clearly see the potential for the property behind my house being developed if not the whole thing at least up to the set of trees that are in the middle of the property oh yeah right by behind my house they've thought about putting a solar Farm in there that got shot down um but I think that with the right developer that could be an asset to this town on that property not taking all the farm and that is literally in your backyard that is literally in my backyard I'm willing to accept that in my backyard for the good of the town and knowing that half of it still would be preserved half of it would be preserved and the other thing is that there's still the parcel's going to be divided the part to do this the parcel would have have to be divided because I think they're going to still keep the part on the west side of the house where uh well we can't talk anyway but he's he's a good anecdotal um resource if we get into that discussion you know the the the there is going to be this not in my backyard kind of I don't want this sort of density and we're gonna have to just we're also gonna have to justify this you know we're gonna have to justify somebody that says well I don't want that there because they're too small houses are too small the lots are too small I I would rather have one neighbor in my backyard instead of three right right but the thing is that we have no affordable housing in this town not that this would necessarily make affordable housing and that's that's the thing to be very clear about is we're not talking about subsidized housing complexes right we're talking about preservation of open space this is not to create new subsidized housing preservation of open space there's a lot of people that don't care about creating affordable housing in the yeah they do not think that's a something we should an extra lot if you do do uh make one of them affordable we're helping the developers Y and the Lots going to be developed it's only one so so yeah I think and this also I'm gonna both of these things actually are going to be outcomes of our comprehensive plan or master plan that's going to come before us probably in August to vote on so get your reading glasses on it's at least 237 Pages oh my God you guys will have we don't have we don't meet in July but that means you'll be doing a lot of reading in July take it to the beach um and so in that though both of these are recommended updates like we're already ahead of the game already doing like and so hopefully members from the comprehensive plan committee which represent people from across boards and committees in this town will come and speak in support of this as well at town meeting I'm hoping for that with the open space development bylaw we got to lean heavily into the open space part of it yes yeah um yep and we all can go up and talk and and you know I'll I'll I usually do the the is the initial like talking through of what this is yep and then you all are welcome to come up and add your commentary um based on what the public comment is I don't think that we should be um blindly thinking that no one's going to develop these properties right I think it's sticking your head on the ground and so let's think about this in the manner that if there are places like the fields behind my house if we can get half of it saved MH it's got to be 30 Acres back there I bet you get half of it saved and let half of it go to to um plan development then maybe it would be an asset to the town as opposed to you know people saying I don't want another house I don't another house you know we went through it when they wanted to put something behind there and um I can't remember the lawyer's name it came from Springfield and represented us and it was a big Fiasco M yep so yeah we we'll see how the cookie crumbles but the other thing to I think the other thing to lean on is this already is on the books in our bylaws that's another piece it's actually increasing the amount that we preserve it's increas like it's moving this is a modification to an existing that's fine y both of these frankly are yeah fair enough so that's the other thing I think we need to lean on too is it's not new slight modification to improve existing B rather than just only attached you let just skoot it away from and same with this we're going to preserve more land MH give you a bigger bonus yep for the development yeah we there's no bonuses in our current one and with the addu it's it's it's trying to open doors to allow individual Property Owners to develop their property as they see fit yeah we're giving people more Choice more place get some rent let your kids take over the house all these options are open or create a space and rent it to a graduate student or whatever to create income yep yeah uh Janelle do you have any other updates I think we're uh a little besides this being are your last meeting this is yeah so that I guess is my big update I am um moving to Philadelphia so I will not be around anymore congrats I have really enjoyed this experience of working with the all of you for the past year um this is a really great experience for someone like me who's getting um my start in Regional planning um and uh the position has been posted and I'm hoping that it is filled soon but you are in good hands we have Lori now helping out as um the admin assistant so she'll be helping out the planning board um I don't think I haven't heard her is she there yeah she started on Monday oh she's not here no no no the so the other pieces I've met her yeah the she's great and she's very organized so the piece with that is just um Marlene is T took some hours from that admin assistant role to actually make the assistant Town planner role uh d double the hours so instead of 20 hours a month it's going to be 40 hours a month and this person's also going to support the Conservation Commission great so we'll have better communication and insight into concom things um and this so that's another um thing that an outcome of that happened in the last couple weeks congratulations Janelle yes thank you for all your help thank you I will be here on the 14th though for town meeting so I'm excited to to be there in person for that for all your help I want it read into the records and made part of the minutes planning board's appreciation for the service of Janelle Franklin and our sincere hopes for all her best success in the future yes always welcome to visit us anytime she comes North yeah she was a great you know I think as our first assistant Town planner I think she had the next person has big shoes to fill so thank you Janelle and when you come back and visit from Philadelphia bring us some of that good old Philadelphia uh what cream cheese here it's always sunny cheese steak Philly cheese some really Che steak Yeah they make it with a two things Chee steak and pretzels they probably won't survive the trip anyway there you go John John's coming in saying the pretzels are great all right we don't have any April minutes to approve we'll have to work with Lori on getting those uh done and along with these meetings and our next schedule meeting is June 5th as we said anything else otherwise can I get a motion to adjourn second any discussion all in favor I meeting is adjourned at 808 thanks Janelle than you jelle good luck thanks Janelle