let's go jar thank you good evening everyone he advised that April 24th 2024 we're having our final Workshop but we're starting off with the deer parklet appeal hearing before the workshop and we will have water utility climate action Innovation and Department of Public Safety uh if everyone could please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag FL United States United States of America to the repblic repu for which it stands one nation Justice for All okay we're going to do roll call councilman Cohen is absent councilman Doyle presid councilman fiser here councilman Jabor here councilman pres Zano presid councilman cantero present councilman Ramos present councilman Russo and council president gtino here we have a quorin presid excellent so um councilman Doyle is going to be our can you what do I call you acting judge no actually I well I think uh Mr Loya Corporation councel is gonna start and okay yeah I'll probably rely on you Jen to let people in and turn the public for but sure as everyone knows Council thank you uh councilman Doyle council president everyone else as you all know you're here for the dear mod um appeal um dear Mo mod made an application to our zoning department and was approved for a parklet and therefore we're going to start off with Anne Holzman um she's just going to uh answer a couple questions for me uh so the council has some background on the application itself and why it was approved Mr Ro before before she starts can I ask you one quick question sure I noted this came up at the our the last uh one the the the the vote tonight just for so everyone knows the expectation this is uh is this a majority vote of those present or is this a majority vote of the full Council a majority vote of those present okay thank you thank you and Ann are you with us I am fantastic and just for those uh in the public who may not know who you are can you tell me um where what capacitor you employed with the city of pook I'm the zoning officer for the city of Hoboken and how long you have been a zoning officer since 2010 and with regard to Dear Mod's application can you tell me what your duties and responsibilities are when you get an application like the one submitted by de Mo we check that the application is complete um that the documents that are required by the outdoor dining code have been submitted and that the plans reflect uh the design criteria that are established in the code um as requirements for the uh for the parket to comply and in this case um after reviewing the applications what conclusion did you make with regard to um the application meeting all of the guidelines under the city's ordinances well um the application process actually started um early part of Summer last year and we went back and forth with the applicant a few times uh with some modifications to their original plans um the parklet was shortened to some degree um because the original the original length of the parklet actually interfered with a couple of manhole covers and and things like that um um the someone from my office um um I somebody from engineering and from the parking utility all met with the applicants um over at the site and reviewed the site with them and and eventually ended up requir requesting some additional modifications to their plans but by the time we got towards to the end of the season last year the going back and forth and things they had modified the plans to meet all of the criteria that we had asked for and the modifications that we had asked for so they um they were deemed complete and compliant um and but at that point in time I'm kind of jumping ahead a little bit in terms of just for informational purposes um by that point in time it was late enough in the fall that we kind of recommended that they wait until this spring to actually build the parklet because there was no reason for them to um to build it in October or November and then have it sit there all winter and stuff without really being um being used so uh we had recommended that they wait until this spring um so they didn't send out the notification letters that they had been approved um or that their parklet application was complete and and approved um we waited until this spring for them to do that and that was what they they did early this you know a couple of months ago they sent out the notific letters to complete that process so that they could get their permits great and so after review of everything and all those meetings that you described um am I correct in assuming that you um approve their application yes they met all the criteria and as part of the criteria within the ordinance um do you um take into consideration whether or not the park may or may not create an additional noise in the neighborhood well from the standpoint of the design of the parklet we do take that very seriously and we do take that into consideration and um in the in this case part of the part of our consideration in reviewing their design was um to have them enclose the three outward sides of the parklet um so in this particular case the the north the north side of the parklet that fa is across the street is is fully enclosed um it's got It's got walls and and windows the east and west side of the parklet is are both of those ends are enclosed as well with with a window on those sides the only portion of the parklet that's actually open is the one that faces the front of the of the restaurant um and the sidewalk so we do take you know we do T sort of take those things into consideration um to try to limit how much noise is generated from the parklet um we're very sensitive to the neighborhoods and and um trying to keep the noise noise levels down um but it's it's not something that we can you know we can't really we can't really we can't really foresee what the noise level is going to be and there there is a noise ordinance that addresses noise as it happens and things like that so um you know while we take it into consideration and we try to design the parklet you know work with them to design a parklet that minimizes it that's that's the limit to how much we can address great thank you councilman do I have no further uh questions um I think that adequately describes the process that went through with deod and why the application was approved if the council has any questions of Van otherwise we can go to the uh the people making appeal to to give them a chance to be heard do we know whether the applicant for the parklet is present uh they are yes they are here so I I don't I it would seem to make sense to allow them to be heard and then hear the appellant but if you know the the person appealing um the prospective approval um but unless there's objections to that why wouldn't we do why don't we go ahead with that Jim is it can we ask Ann a question yes yes you can um just I guess uh two quick questions an first all thanks for the overview um is just is one of the one of the provisions that I read um in our uh code is that we have the ability to limit the number of uh parklets on any block based on um just just our interest in using the curb space for something else or for Public Access that is one of the provisions right yep 1386 not asking you asking an y yes yes I I that was sort of that was sort of built in in because we have blocks on Washington Street that just have an extraordinary amount of restaurants and um we didn't want entire block to be taken up by parklets um and and the initial the initial intent for parklets was that they would be shared spaces as opposed to individual um you know proprietary uses so um that was sort of part of the that's that's kind of built in there from the original evolution of the of the code but um yes that is a provision in the code and and also there's nothing in our code that um specifically addresses like the narrowness of a street I mean clearly our streets in Hoboken range from really narrow ones to much wider ones but we don't have any specific provision in our code that um addresses that right we we only address we only address the width of the parklet um based on based on Street based on the the width of the parking L right um but nothing about like if the travelanes 10 feet or if the travelanes 25 ft there's nothing like that that no is in our code and then no because the parklets aren't the parklets aren't interfering with the travel Lane we're they're they're specific to the to the parking Lane so we we only address it from the standpoint of the width of the parking Lan right and is the um and and we uh my understanding and I could be wrong with this that were were the notices the certified notices sent out to the neighbor I had heard in one instance that they were and one instance that they were weren't do you know um if that's the case um yes we actually looked into that the notices went out to all of the neighbors they were given they were given the 200 foot list and they did send all of the notices out I believe you can double check this with them but I believe that they were sent non-certified um but clearly everyone in the neighborhood received their notices the notices because we got all of the appeals that we received so um we didn't make them resend them okay great we should probably ask um we should just ask because often you know people people uh submitting appeals doesn't necessarily correlate with whether or they got to notice that all you need is one neighbor who's angry that suddenly tells every other neighbor and then they file appeals but we should we should ask that question because I I'm not sure um if people did or not all right those are my questions thanks of an thanks an if I could ask Mr oloya um if a I know from a land use perspective if there was if there's a defect in notification a defect meaning you know if it if if the state law requires certified mail and it is not sent by certified mail uh is that deemed maybe I don't mean to put you on the spot but is that is that mean that the the application is defective on its face or is it a fatal flaw I guess is what I'm asking well if the council found that notice was defective and somebody's um rights um were impacted by that um you can certainly request that it be Ren noticed um and then we kind of come back to the same result right so that's how something like this would work and I'm actually trying to read our code right now I'm not sure that we required in code certified mail but maybe an knows this by heart more so than I do well the section 40 colon 55d 12b is referenced a couple places and that's um you know it says no oh it does say via certified mail in uh okay 1383 B7 that talks about it so um you know I mean without having I will say I mean I you know the appeals came in quicker than we could actually have them go ahead and start go through the process of Ren noticing so it was it was obvious and pretty evident to us that people had received the notice um and C just so just as a you know color commentary case law basically says that if if it's evident that the notices were received then then they're not considered to be deficient but me we have a Cy of the notice that was sent so um we know that we know that they covered all of the bases and all of the things they're supposed to cover in the not in the notice that was that was sent um just wasn't they just weren't certified but if how can you be sure you know if half of them went out instead of all of them you know obviously as you say it's I think it's indisputable that people received notifications but if if only a third or half or three qus you know that's what the certification is for to prove that it happened but but anyway um I guess we can that's interesting that the case law is such that constructive knowledge of notification will cure the defect I guess is kind of what you're saying okay just two questions that members of the public had um an when they send the notification it doesn't go to everyone in the building correct it goes to or does it um I would have to look at the 200 foot list that we gave them I don't know offhand state law I think state law just I mean for land you state law only requires that they go to for a Condo building like the central Condo Association and like the management company of a rental property and then it's kind of up to them to make sure the residents get it or not yeah that's what that's what's required but um you could ask you could ask them specifically I don't remember I don't remember I'd have to look at I'd have to go back and look at the 200 foot list that they were given someone in the chat said only one person in their building received it but that I'm assuming is why it is and then my other question to you is uh what's the capacity in the parklet and the the dimens I know I saw nine foot high that's I can remember that that's yeah it's um right now they're specking it just for like three tables um I think probably 12 12 people and you know that the length yep I tell you in a second the overall length is 23 7 in and the width actually is is just under fet like 6 feet 6 Fe 11 I'm sure it was 9t high I really I feel like I pretty clearly right thank you that sounds right I ask a question for Council vice president I guess um I was just wondering I know you had said that there had been several staff members from the administration who did a site visit in terms of the location one of the concerns that was raised um in one of the public comments leading up to this hearing was about um a garage a parking garage that's up opposite this location and whether having this structure would impede their ability to utilize that garage and I'm just wondering if there was any sort of you know if the city engineer or somebody had kind of looked at it from that standpoint they did that that was part of the reason why the parking utility uh folks were there was to make sure that we that there was more than sufficient um swing I mean if there were a car park if there were a car parked in this in the same same place where the parklet is going to be the it wouldn't impede the person pulling in and out of the garage any more than the parklet does so um you know there's just just anecdotally you would you would assume that that it's not going to impede the the entrance and exit from the garage are there any more questions for ad could could an stick around for a little bit in in case something other pops up thank you Miss Holzman so Jen would you like to bring in the uh applicant or the the applicant for the parlet get of that d am I saying the name properly I can you hear me we can now yep hey you you're just this is just an opportunity for you to sorry we didn't realize the on oh yeah can you hear me we can hear you yeah okay yeah so this is you don't you're not obligated to say anything but this is your opportunity just to add any commentary you know supplement what Miss Holtzman has said or you know what whatever you might like to share with us I think like just from our Point interview we kind of went through the process and did whatever we you know an had asked us to do um I think we we were just listening there it seems we might have made a small mistake with the know the certified and the non-certified you know male like I I think as Brian said we're probably gonna end up in the same position but we're happy if it you know meets the stay Al Whatever to resend them out by certified mail we have the mailing list here still um you know really it we we were just unsure about the appeals and you know what what the I suppose what issues there was and we're happy to answer any questions that you guys have or anybody else okay thank you um but so you confirmed that there was a that the certified stuff was not was not satisfied but that you're obviously willing to well I think confir yeah I think confir we have a receipt from USPS for it for it being sent out but it looks like it wasn't actually certified that it was we we printed the mail in you know all the labels and and sent them off yeah no I'm I'm not trying to harp on it but yeah so so you acknowledge that that's that's that's fine um do you by any chance um you know one of the one of the the possible reasons for denial would be um issues related to you know Tavern sheets and things at the at the existing bar do you are you guys in good shape I with regard to the Alcohol Beverage Control with your current operation yes okay all right thank you you're welcome so I I Jen I I don't have anything else I um I don't have any no do you want to okay I'm going to um if no one has any questions for them I'm going to put you guys back in the attendees but if we need you we'll bring you back yeah we're happy to come in and answer any questions that you need thank you thank you thank you thank you so I think what we should do Council uh councilman is if uh any of the me if any members of the public would like to speak use the raised hand function if you have any questions or you just want to speak use the raiseed hand function um I would appreciate if you guys could do that now because that's going to determine how much time everyone gets and if you know only someone just lowered their hand doesn't mean I'm going to give more time um and council president I was gonna add that I I do think strictly speaking um you know the the code suggests that people uh who would file an appeal of this prospective decision would essentially write a letter to the clerk's office and so I think for yeah for our purposes I think it's fine to just let anyone speak who wants to speak you know B rather than saying have you formally filed an appeal or not as far as having the opportunity but I would um you know for the sake of of the proceeding um you know if if you're going to reiterate what the person in front of you has said if you could be concise and just say I I too agree and you know we want to hear from you but we don't necessarily have to hear the same thing over and over and over I guess what I'm trying to say politely right because most of you have you most of the people raising their hands have emailed us probably and we we're all well aware of everyone's concerns so um I think we're going to do two minutes because we have eight president yes I'm sorry if I may just something for the council to consider if the council was going to consider um not for the people that are currently with us and have filed an appeal but for others who may not have known about the appeal based upon the certified issue if you were going to consider having them resend those notices one of the things you might want to consider is making that decision now and then Jing this hearing until though that mail hits and we see if there's anyone else that wants to participate so you still only have one hearing instead of recreating it if you find later that you've heard from you know the attendees that are with us now I see nine hands raised but now there's four other people now we have to redo the entire hearing um and the council doesn't get to consider everything at once you can also go forward with this hearing as well I'm just throwing that out there that might be something you might want to consider however Council proceed as far Corporation Council do you I know that um Miss Holzman you know plays a lawyer on TV um but uh no the the the statement that um that you know a a noncertified letter can be deemed to be acceptable upon proof that letters have been received is do you agree with that I agree with Miss H with with with Miss Holzman on that issue completely agree U but the issue becomes we have a group of people that not withstanding the certified issue received and they're here with us today they weren't disenfranchised so they don't have any uh in my opinion claim that somehow the certified male should rule the day but you might have somebody else who didn't know about the hearing today and didn't know about the application because of the certified so that other unknown person might actually raise an issue I'm not saying that so such a person exists I'm just throwing it out there if the council is going to ask for the certified to be sent um it might be beneficial to have that certified sent now and then come back um and and have the hearing all at once um for I'll call that other group of people that might be out there we don't know Mr ly I have a question as far as then what happens with the time frames that are Set uh that you know for this to be if that happens again does that reset the clock or does that uh in my opinion would reset the clock because everybody will get Ren noticed okay it's it's almost as though right now you'd be denying the application based only on the certification issue they would recertify and then we'd come back here presumably the people would still have you know residents would still have the same appeal um and there might be more residents right that that join it because of this they now get certified mail and they you know were maybe the other mail they didn't receive can't hear me I'm saying this hypothetically but if tonight we were that's only if tonight we're granting a yes vote that that something like that could happen if there are other reasons for denying the parklet that's that's correct councilman Doyle what's your um thoughts I it's not it's not my call I mean in the sense obviously I get one vote but um I don't I think we should I my opinion is we should just hear from the people and yeah and then make our choice you know decide if we're going to have a vote or just deny it because of the certification I agree anybody else object all right so uh attendees we're GNA I'm going to allow you in to speak I'm going to allow you to speak just keep in mind you have two minutes and again like councilman Doyle said if your complaint is there's too much traffic and the person before you just said all of that we appreciate your time but please be a little bit appreciative of ours as well because we do have a meeting after this so keep it as concise as you can and I'll be I'll time the two minutes thank you uh Elma Crable yeah good evening everybody can you hear me yes okay very good um I am deeply uh um concerned with the fact that uh this uh de mod parklet was approved Without Really um listening the concern of all the Neighbors in the surrounding area um it has come to a chalk to me because uh this is something very um important to the neighbors especially because this parklet really is going to disrupt the quality of life of all the Neighbors in this area um I uh I have a uh a unit at right across from a deer mod a 100 Garden Street Windows facing bedroom facing the street and I canot imagine the disruption that is going to cause to uh this uh to the tenants uh in this building and uh the same concern is being um addressed by other neighbors in the same building uh we are extremely concerned especially because we feel like the city has approved a park leg to a restaurant that is not being H by space the other day I was working in front of the restaurant and to my surprise uh the city has approved them to put tables on the sidewalk okay um now um they want to take take a a parking spots from the street uh in a city that we are H by parking uh we all are very aware of that and um not just taking a few parking spots but also disrupting the traffic on that street because it's a very narrow Street and I don't even know if a h big truck will be able to uh uh to pass by um another issue that uh is not that is extremely important for you counselors to consider is that um why do we want to keep uh infest in the city with rats uh this park really uh caused this this big problem in the city um I live in another building across from a parklet and um I cannot tell you the nightmare that we had um uh uh with this parklet uh a lot of rats came in the surrounding area we never had this issue before in uh 20 years living in this building and as soon as this parl was placed there because of the co situation right um Elma I'm sorry Elma can you hear me your two minutes is up so if you could wrap it up I okay all right so I will ask you counselors to really consider or and listen to the neighbors because I would like you to protect us right why to protect a restaurant not hard by space and I really would like you to uh sink in the residence first thank you very much thank you very much Sergio Sergio yeah hello can you hear me yes and ser I'm just going to raise my hand when you have 15 seconds left just for a cue I think that would be helpful much appreciated uh council members and P pres uh H and I don't want to repeat what uh the other person said just said uh my concern is uh the noise as one of the main issues that we have currently as a licensed professional being an architect I I understand how sound transmits how Sun waves uh develops and basically having a three wall sided wall parklet whether it's 9 feet tall or 15 feet tall the sound will prop with disperse uh and would be incredibly incredibly annoying to the neighbors just the other day we live next door and uh they open the door that is supposedly for igis only and it was I think a Friday night it was packed the place and the noise that came just for that single door was unbelievable we had to shut our Windows because we couldn't have dinner comfortable on the same hand uh the the problem of the uh Bri infestation is also incredible we see them loading up our sidewalk with tons of uh trash guns and bags and we've never seen rats before and now we see them almost every every day so I I will really appreciate your consideration for denial because covid is over and the benefit of the parklet three years ago is not the same as now so unless you build bubbles that are acoustically isolated a part will be a tremendous noise maker for everybody and I I appreciate your time thank you so much thank you Sergio well Lucinda yes hi um I will try to not repeat I have the same concerns that everybody else has um I am concerned about the noise um and I appreciate what Sergio said about the about the noise coming out of the parklet I also do want to say that I I I read the ordinance at least parts of it and I know that uh the uh restaurant owners are required to deal with cenus and rodent control but spilled food and Spilled drinks are inevitable and I just think that rats are going to be at more rats are going to be attracted to the um area causing a problem I also want to bring up that First Street is a very heavily trafficked Street and I think that with more access to deod that we're going to see more lift and Uber drivers uh more pickups and drop offs causing more problems and finally I I do want to say that I am concerned that the owners did not notice that um that the notification needed to be sent by um by certified mail um the I'm also surprised that it only has to go to one person in a building I think that's a little weird um but that may not be their problem but if they missed that what else are they going to miss so again with everybody else I really would like you to deny this application thank you thank you Richard hello this is Richard Cole I live at 98 Park Avenue actually I'm raised my hand because I wanted to react um to the township officers um perspective on on sending out uh the the letters that people must have received them because they responded well this is not how it works we heard about the letter at at second hand um the it was not and we're concerned with with the issues therefore responded but we we had not received the letters and this um is rather unfortunate jumping to conclusions and this this raised the question in my mind about oh the parklet is not going to change the issue with getting out of the garage the the parklet completely fills up the place it's a rectangular block when a car is part is not necessarily filling up the space completely outward the limits of the 7 ft um because obviously people park close to the curb in order to minimize the chances they're going to get hit so I think there will be a little less room for people coming out of the garage in practice even if legally um the the the seven feet could be occupied by by a parked car um other otherwise I just I agree with what others have said about noise and and and the risk of more more rats and I will stop at that point thank you very much Richard I'm sorry Amy I skipped you by accident Lisa and hi hi can you hear me Lisa van itam I also live at 98 Park um you know I agree with Richard on the notifications because I was the only person in the building to get no ification it was not certified it came in the mail um I do not collect my mail often but a week later I received it and I notified everyone else in the building and no one else received that notification as well not our management company or the condo association or the residential spaces beneath us in the building so you have you know 10 plus units not being notified and I'm concerned that many others in the surrounding blocks were not notified because not everybody would share that with their building so you could have many buildings that were received that a lot of people aren't aware of this so I have an issue with the certification of of the notifications of this parklet um in addition to the noise the rats um you know the the garage that faces across the street from from deod but the big issue too is that parklets were allowed in this town to help people during the pandemic to help small businesses since nobody wanted to eat indoors during the pandemic so we allowed them to have parklets to take up parking spaces to be noisy outside to play music outside late at night um and we allowed all that because we were in a pandemic the pandemic is long G and now we're allowing one of the largest restaurants in town with the most seating in town and a massive bar with younger children who are very loud and stand outside they have a Velvet Rope at night security guards at night now we're allow them to have outdoor space where it's going to be even more loud than it was before they're going to be blocking the sidewalk so people with baby carriages you know we we have to worry about all the all the mopeds on the sidewalks and the bicycles on the sidewalk trying to navigate that part of First Street is going to be increasingly difficult and not to mention the noise so I would hope that you would deny this you know I've lived here 29 years and this is the first time I felt that it was important to speak at a city council meeting thank you for your time Thank you Lisa Amy hi can you hear me yes hi I am uh at 208 First Street I am actually the one with the garage directly across um I understand that there were you know you know officials out there taking measurements or whatever but what I have to ask you to understand is when cars park close to the driveway entrance and they do they creep over the don't park line it becomes very narrow and you have to back directly out and then make the turn and when that happens it's very difficult um so I think this is going to be a real issue um obviously the noise I haven't been able to keep my windows open in a long time I always have my air conditioner running to drown out the noise um and just the street width itself I witnessed a large truck that was unable to get through that area directly in front of my apartment dear mod on March 23rd cars were legally parked in those spaces and a police officer had to direct the truck to get up the street because they were having such trouble getting up um that's about it I'm nervous to talk in front of this but yeah all all the noise issues um that everybody's talked about we could go on about 30 minutes about that so thank you thank you Michael yes hello can everybody hear me yes wonderful uh my name is Michelle hear uh I'm at 99 Park Avenue been here for 20 years um a uh a note and then a question um the certified mail requirement um I think that is very important to implement because I have in my possession at least two letters that were left downstairs um by our mailboxes for owners in this building that um are not here they are not living here um and so they definitely did not receive them because I'm I'm holding them right now and uh my question would be um are tenants also notified as being residents in this area or is it only owners of record that are notified because for these particular two letters the owners are on the letters non-certified whereas the tenants living in that apartment were actually going to be dealing with the effects of this parklet if approved um were're not notified so it would just be something to keep in mind so I'm I'm I'm very adamant that it would make sense to follow the standard procedure the legal procedure of utilizing certified mail because there was a reason behind it one the lawmakers set that in motion I guess and then my question for the uh owners of De mod not not sure if that's appropriate here but just just want to throw it out there there are currently tables and chairs on the sidewalk in front of De mod where um customers sit and and consume and and uh visit the establish once this parklet is installed if it were to be approved would those tables and chairs migrate into that parklet or would they still remain there on the sidewalk basically in between the restaurant and the parklet making it even harder to walk through so that is basically it thank you thank you thank you Manny yes good afternoon council president and Council and members of the public correct all right okay hear now any can't hear you and I don't know can other council members hear him properly no you're breaking up many how about now yep that's good okay thank you council president and Council and member public because president I'm G to be brief because I don't want to um take up too much time being that we're getting close to the workshop hour I just want to be on record that I concur with uh the rest of uh the neighbors and the members of the public who spoke I think it's imperative and important that um Council consider a other hearing an other hearing where they can be um seen and heard and that the proper notification be given because even though um it seems like somebody got it but um from what we can hear and I I'm not a council member but I would if I were one I would say well let's let's vote for it to come back but that's your decision but anyway Council um I would like to just say that because it is important as well for the greater um uh residents of Hoboken because the streets um really belong to all of us and if I don't know if those um tables are going to be there they're going to be moved into the parklet I'm assuming I'm hoping but members of the public who have um disabilities sometimes um when things are in the sidewalk it becomes uh a little bit difficult to maneuver but again that's another issue for for another day but I would hope that um uh the council would consider the certification um situation um better cross your um te and Dot your eyes so that it doesn't go to further litigation so anyway I don't know if my two minutes are up but uh again that would be my my suggestion council president and again I've never seen this before being heard here um because I thought that the zoning officer had the final decision but if somebody could be great um I don't know if you can or not we we can explain that um when the public comment is done okay thank you thank you um uh Council vice president I appreciate that anyway that that is my concern um uh Council vice president if you if you can take that into consideration and help members of the public thank you good evening pera pera hi can you hear me yes awesome so I live in 101 Park Avenue and both my bedroom space um First Street so I'm across the street from deont and I have two young children who um sleep there and we already have an issue in the evenings especially on the weekends um they can hear the sound from the bedrooms like we try our best to like reduce the noise we have fans and everything so I'm really concerned that my kids bedtime is getting impacted and it's going to actually get more and more impacted I agree with everything everybody else said about the the issue with space and the fact that first street is actually very important I see a lot of ambulances and fire trucks going through it and um with with with already the congestion that this is going to cause um this is actually a hazard for the city itself and I want to point that out that it's going to be hard for like even large Vehicles like ambulances and fire trucks to go through with all the stuff that's going on and Ubers and lifts that would be coming for people that's also going to increase the noise pollution um and the last thing I want to say is um I mean I agree with everything everyone said the last thing I want to say is that um um aside from all of this it completely changes the character of our street right now it's a nice cute street with this big structure that shows up it's completely going to impact our the the the way our street looks today and I'm also concerned about property values and that's something we should take into account and people being able to buy and sell homes here um so so all of the other stuff that everybody said you know I'm concerned about rats I'm concerned about noise I'm concerned about being able to get my car out of the garage and whatnot but I'm also concerned about property values I'm con extremely concerned about noise for young children because when people see um young children young children parents will not buy homes here and that's a concern for me thank you so much thank you y ya hi can you hear me yes yeah uh I'm an owner and resident of 100 Garden Street right across the street to deero um I agree with with the you know neighbors who just spoke I also want to bring to your attention um the lack of transparency during this process um I personally find it a little frustrating that like the notice that I I actually received the notice but it did not give much information about how the parklet was going to look for how long it's going to be in place um and what concrete measures um the like de mod owners would take to make sure there's no no excessive noise trash Etc um I think the lack of information overall just just makes me concerned about um uh the the the level of effort um the business is willing to put into protecting the local residents um yeah so that's on top of all the other concerns thank you thank you Mary sorry maryan yes thank you very much can you hear me yeah great um I first want to say that I agree wholeheartedly with uh all of the previous speakers um I just have a few points that I'd like to bring up um I'm very concerned about the increased foot traffic in and out of the establishment and in front of the establishment um both not only to service the parklet but also for people queuing to either wait for the parklet or go into Deer mods this is already a major problem on the weekend and with a family member that has very limited Mobility um you know we've had to go to the other side of the street many on many occasions because we've been bumped into our dog has been Stepped On by intoxicated people waiting in line and I've seen people with children drag their kids in the middle of the street across the street because there's always some sort of you know Mayhem on a Friday Saturday and and even Sunday night um the other thing I wanted to Echo is that that stretch of First Street is not only a very common place for Uber and lift because people are going to Deer mods but there are also an inordinate amount of Del dely trucks that are trying to you know do their job and and service the restaurants and other businesses on First Street that I've seen you know for example Raymar and Flanigan just literally Park in the middle of the street and leave their truck there um because they just have nowhere to put it um finally my my other concern is that I really fear that this is going to put an inordinate strain on our public safety personnel the amount of times that people are going to have to call the police to respond to not being able to get past that uh stretch of First Street or if there's going to be loud obnoxious behavior and um you know noise violations I mean look everybody applauds deer mods it's one of the first successful businesses in that location I mean we like to eat there however this is really going to cause a strain on the quality of life for our neighbors and I think it's really going to put a strain our public on our Public Safety and I think that's something that you should really be concerned about thank you thank you very much Maran Patricia Patricia hi thank you council president I'm going to piggyback a few of the uh callers what they said but I want to comment on Mr Doyle's um comment to uh question to an Al miss holstead about the way the notification versus the certification of a regular notice and you quoted the statute 30 40-80 whatever it was well anyway um I think we all do respect they should have did better with the notification of contacting those people in the first W even though I or Manny don't live in the first w we do support our residents that live here in Hoboken and we just had an issue a couple of months ago with respect to parklets and this is when all you guys was running for office and you made so many promises to the residents that live here about these parlets we raised concerns about the rats the noise the disrespect the quality of life and apparently it was overlooked because here we go tonight with another thing that was almost basically passed if Manny didn't call me the day of this hearing which I found no transparency with that issue either where we you just telling us a day before and that's not fair never alone you didn't send a certified mail and you being an attorney and I'm quite sure Ann holon is very familiar with the law in regular court of law they they sell tell you send it both certified mail and regular mail but anyway that's neither here or there I'm just here tonight to support the people that live in the First Ward and um on Park Avenue and those condos and just to let them know I'm here you know for they support thank you thank you Mr doy thank you Barry hey good evening uh I I just have three things um and really I I think everyone's um has stated several of these but I I do want to clarify um a couple items so I know we have concerns with parking uh Hoboken is traditionally uh concerning when it comes to parking um but in the past year I believe that the parking spaces on the corner of garden and first were also reduced um so if you are on uh first there used to be three parking spaces in front of 97 and 95 Garden those are no longer parking spaces those are now loading zones which I can only assume are due to the traffic that has increased on first or the businesses that have increased in the demand to have loading zones so I would review why those parking spaces turn to loading zones because there must be a reason these those changed and reduced our parking um only now to have more reduced parking in the same so that's around parking and and I don't think we we've expressed that part of it um the other one is the safety I know we did bring up the The Velvet ropes Etc um but my concern around safety is this is an establishment that has security and you only need security for certain reasons but now we are bringing a structure onto the street that is less secure than a brick and mortar so i' question how they intend to secure this parklet on the street and the traffic that is going to be created in and outside of the establishment and and I think that just bring down the right of passage um we we did mention earlier on uh the concerns about the tables on the street already I would question if those are intended to go away with the park liet and I think that's everything thank you thank you we have we have no other members of the public signed up to speak motion to close public portion we have to make a motion in this Motion in favor I I I president if I if I could just um yeah I think I we should ask an the question about the current the existing tables and what's going to happen to those uh should this be approved um and if and if you're taking notes the you you you describ the the dimensions as 23 foot 7 inches by I can't remember what the seven seven feet under under just under seven so and so that's six feet 11 6 feet 10 something like that that's the width of the existing parking spot I assume so okay anyway I I did want to just I saw some comments just so people are aware um and I don't want to sound defensive but uh for an but the process that we're engaged in here is Anne's job is to receive the application to see that it satisfies the criteria with of which there were about 28 criteria and once if she determines that they' sat they've satisfied the criteria the notice goes out to give people the opportunity to to do what we're doing here today and I say that because it's not as if you know someone has approved this and now we're trying to claw it back it's it's part of a process of approval so the 28 criteria maybe maybe uh shortsightedly do not include they they include the specifics of of as you you know um addressing Rats the type of structure uh the distance from corners but it but it does not specifically uh talk about the neighborhood impact in the sense of the neighborhood I should say opinion because the process of getting a letter and having the opportunity to speak is is provided through this this notification procedure so I I only explain that because it's not as if it was approved you know behind closed doors and uh somehow this this process was you know a surprise to all this is the way it's supposed to work people are supposed to get an opportunity to come out and express their views as everyone has done here so uh with that said and could you tell us about the existing sidewalk tables and whether they would still be permitted or not should this application be granted so sidewalk cafes are completely separate entity from parklets or Street Aries so they the side and the sidewalk cafes have they've they've existed for for decades at this point um and yes the the tables the tables that they have on the sidewalk are part of their licensed Sidewalk Cafe area and would remain separate and and independent from a parklet or streetery okay thank you so and councilman doy I know I don't know if you if you said this question but no tenant tenants do not need to be notified the law does not require tenants to be notified I am I am certain of that and unless you want to disagree with me no well we would have no way of right knowing who those who those people would be so we notify the people who are Property Owners yeah I will add that the the planning board many years ago uh a former chairman of the planning board uh sought to actually do what people H are requesting this evening meaning changing our local ordinance to require individual unit owners in a building to be notified rather than just uh you know the property manager or you know the president of the condo association and uh state law prohibits well state law indicates that it's sufficient to just notify an entire building and it it would be it we were advised at the time that it would not be legally appropriate for us to Trump state law and require notification to individual units so not withstanding that it's not ideal by any mean uh means the fact of the matter is that the you know the one notification per building uh rule is state law and they you know and that's what the city of Hoboken provided the list to the applicant to the the parklet application holder uh to to to tell them how who to send the letters too so it wasn't they doing to try to skirt the list is at least from that perspective so I I don't know um president whether Council pres councilman pres Zano wants to ask a question I think yes um and miss miss Holzman uh have you have we ever denied any parklets um try to now you're asking me to REM remember all every application for the last two or three years um sorry that's all right now I I I believe that there were a couple um over the last couple of years that could not meet the criteria um or or could not be approved because of obstructions that they would create over manhole and things of that n nature so they never they were not approved for a parklet they might have those some of those locations have actually actually got switched to doing Street Aries instead of parklets because of the structure um to eliminate the structure um but yeah I think it mostly it had to do with with them not being able to meet the criteria because of of other other existing um infrastructure on the street at the you know in the on on the street in those locations thank you so um I at this point we should we are free to deliberate and discuss ask questions Etc and [Music] then well and I guess I'll just say more from a procedural perspective if we determine that the notifications were legally defective and on that basis deny this application uh the party the applicant would be eligible to Ren notify and then as counil as a corporation counsel a lawyer pointed out then the you know the letters would go back out the 30-day period would start again and we we may very well be back here with with u from a positive perspective with more members of the public having been notified and more people expressing you know their views so councilman uh Council vice president joyle um just wanted to point out that there is currently uh the stay on new Park applications that was recently passed so I believe that if this were to be Deni you know denied today application denied today on the basis of the inadequate notification and were to be referred back to miss holzman's office it would be subject to the stay because it would have been an incomplete application thank you for that that's currently that that stay or moratorium is through July 17th if I'm not mistaken so and it of course it could be extended or the law could be changed because the purpose of the moratorium is to take a breath and reconsider some of these so but so it is that's a very valid point it might be that at the very least the application couldn't be approved and the process couldn't go forward until after July 17th so may it may be a significant delay if not a permanent denial thank you councilman I think an wanted to say something I I need to I um I will respectfully disagree because we normally deal with a time of application rule so um but that that's that's up to you guys um but I do need to leave if if there's no other questions that you have for me well another I have have to get to another meeting at 6:30 so okay if we just if the application is denied then application is no more right I mean if we if we deny the application tonight there would be a new application and how would that be a time of application R well if you if you're if you're sending it back to have it re noticed that's one thing if you're denying the application outright then that's a different thing okay if but if you're trying if you're trying to perfect the notice issue you're not denying you're not really denying the application per se just it's semantical but depends on I guess what the most how how it depends on how you w to how you want to do it okay all right okay thank you you I don't mind councilman starting jumping in please yep uh so my issue with this parklet and this goes to um you know can can we deny it based on the Block um and what's going on in that block I just think there's first of all First Street has a lot more traffic and I would even say them Washington Street based on like per square foot just because they're really narrow sidewalks I'm talking about pedestrian traffic there's tons of car traffic but there's so much pedestrian traffic on First Street um there ton of driveways not just on that block but on First Street which makes parking on First Street really difficult First Street is really narrow um there's probably more ebike and delivery delivery bike traffic on First Street then there's a lot on Washington but first Street's probably the next and because of its narrowness I think that also is an issue so based on all of that I wouldn't be comfortable moving forward with this parklet outside of the notification Factor okay uh others anyone else will to yeah I would I would say similarly like I think um similar to what Jen said uh or uh council president said you know this is this I think not all of our streets are equal and you know we didn't um not all locations are equal not all blocks are equal and I think um not withstanding what uh what an said about when we put this provision in to you know make sure we we put the provision in to make sure that we were looking at the curb management aspect of this so that we weren't you know significantly disrupting parking dis significantly um you know just disrupting loading zones the flow you know On Any Given block and our blocks are different and and I think this is a block that um is not you know shouldn't have any you know shouldn't have any parklets on it um for the reasons that uh that council president mentioned um at least not right now I mean the city is doing a curb management um analysis so we're going to understand block by block like the needs the uses Etc um you know we're also looking at all of the um you know whether it's loading zones whether it's parking whether it's garbage containers whether it's parklets um we are going to you know and I and I think this block in particular because of how narrow it is um how you know the the nature of the uses currently on the Block I think it's a block that we shouldn't be approving parklets on um definitely not today um with the information that we currently have available to us maybe that'll change in the future but right now I wouldn't be supportive thank you councilwoman um Council council president I I it may be that the the property owners are asking to be heard I'm not really sure that that's appropriate at this juncture um I don't know whether they want to provide information that that we are assuming incorrectly or new information versus just making a a pitch for us but um I'll leave it to other Council people whether we want to hear from them I mean that that might just reopen more residents who want to re rebut what they may say and so forth council president yes oh sorry I'm also I'm also just cognizant of the time I know that several of our directors are waiting to go with budget hearings and I'm not sure if that has shifted the members of the public ipation but I also am not sure that re-engaging in a back and forth is respectful of their time okay I think I just I agree just my thought and I'm happy to be very concise in my remarks as well on the matter okay go go ahead sure uh so I am a big supporter of parklets as a general matter I don't think that this was just for me at least a covid program in terms of how Hoboken positions itself uh as a place to visit uh a place as a destination and beyond that I do think a significant number of residents also appreciate and enjoy the amenity of outdoor dining that said I do think all blocks are not created equal I have concerns about First Street being particularly narrow and I don't think this is an ideal location I know that in the remarks opening um Miss Holzman mentioned that there was some U discussion initially about how the noise might be a consideration and because of that they increase the size of the wall but I think the member of the public who commented um you've faded away she was concise that was really concise um though I am supportive of the program more generally so thank you okay I I'll make a quick uh if I can jump in uh councilman Doyle uh I believe to is that the streets are tight there and in that area the buildings are high so the noise tends to Echo I'm not I'm not a noise specialist um but I think I'll refer back to one of the residents that had spoken about it that is uh the other thing you have to think about is the county road as well um and it's busy and if you have seen anything I can tell you numerous times I've seen on Park uh trucks trying to get through and they can't if somebody if two cars park a little bit away from the the the uh the sidewalk you you can't get the truck through and it seems to be a thorough fair for that uh that said um you know parklets are nice uh however some of the concerns that the residents brought up are are I think valid uh but that said the street is PR very tight in that area and again with added traffic with Ubers and e delivery and things of that nature um it'd be very difficult for me uh to think that this is the right spot for this okay um anyone else I'm not putting yeah Jim Council vice president I can say a couple words uh you know I I am too a huge supporter of parklets I I agree the purpose of them today is not why they were first put in uh they now exist because it's an amenity that this residents of of Hoboken enjoy uh and and so that's why we have them there that's why they're regulated uh they bring Revenue into the city um what I worry about here is um us taking into considerations things that should not Council vice president did a good job of uh of explaining what should be considered the criteria what should not uh you know future potential noise future potential uh clinginess issues our future right so we can't forecast those and I think those aren things that should be considered uh but it is a tight Street um and and I I do worry that we are leaning towards uh a denial based on you know repurposing a uh an element of the the ordinance that wasn't really intended for it um but with all those things considered I do think you know the the the the space limitation concerns about you know emergency vehicles getting through are persuasive I'm I'm still going to think about this one but I just want to you know folks understand you the things that I'm thinking about as I weigh this decision and things that I'm not thank you councilman um I guess I I'm somewhat troubled by this on two levels number one I I do I hear you uh all of the public as well as my colleagues with regard to this location being tough unfortunately on the one hand these applicants um you know the ordinance doesn't currently distinguish First Street and its width from Washington Street and so they relied on their interpretation here and the criteria that are in the ordinance I think they they lack an important criteria namely neighborhood acceptance Etc uh you know so in some ways they they relied on what what the ordinance says and they and they satisfied these criteria and we've all sort of been come to the realization that it is you know especially for a new parklet as opposed to a a parklet where there's been you know bad behavior of The parklet Operators um for a new one virtually all the things we've heard today um with the exception maybe of the of the the traffic issues you know the the noise that may be generated the you know the the rats that may occur um you know many of these things are future problems that may or may not occur and so the criteria and the code don't talk about prospective problems but that all being said I I really feel that the failure to to certify these letters although it sounds like a stickler you know procedural loophole kind of thing is without it there's no proof that the parties's got and I don't mean to imply that uh that we're being lied to I mean that the post office could make mistakes and there's a certainly land use board applications will live and die on whether they can prove with certified mail that they did what they did as far as mailing out notices so I I kind of you know I'm hesitant because I think the applicants in good faith tried to uh satisfy the requirements but I think that that defect is something that's very troubling for me so so I don't know if there's a motion out there that anyone wants to make can I make a motion to deny based on um the failure to notice and the condition of the block second second that good yeah okay and Mr Mr lore would you call a vote yep okay we're voting on The Resolution a motion to deny motion to deny okay deny the approval of it so obviously great thank you uh Council con is absent councilman Doyle hi councilman fiser yeah uh yes councilman Jabor yes councilman presen Zano yes councilman cantero hi councilman Ramos hi so is absent and council president gtino yes okay it passes a majority we have a majority thank you Jerry yep