yeah yeah yeah about good my bike is a Lot F thank [Applause] you everye order I would like to advise all those present that notice of this meeting has been provided to the public in accordance with the provisions of the open public meeting act that notice was published Jersey Journal City website copies were provided in the record norstar Legend also placed on a bulletin board in the lobby of City Hall written objections if any shall be made to the city clerk please rise to salute the flag algi to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible please call the RO Mr con here oh Mr Fusco yes here and it's also sh been a pleasure serving thank you Mr clerk much appreciate good luck thank you Mr Doyle pres fiser here Gan Tino here Mr guo present M Mr Ros present Mr Russo present president jaor here um um just a couple well actually let's just get started with the first uh presentation of the evening there will be two um but the first is to Mr pina's Point um this is the last meeting for our colleague councilman defusco and I understand that business administrator Freeman is going to make the remarks do you want us all to come up Mr so so yeah uh councilman gave me a quick run of show he asked Tiffany Ruben and then I get to close so that's the order in which he okay I stand corrected okay councilman Fischer you're up first yeah um all right then which I wasn't prepared to do I wasn't prepared to go first that's okay um exactly uh and I'll probably cry um I've known Mike for 10 years we uh met on the zoning board literally probably I when I joined the zoning board in um January of 2014 um you know didn't know much about Hoboken not even a lot about zoning and you know Mike um was and Phil actually was on the zoning board as well and uh and they you know I learned a lot I learned a lot I learned a lot from both of them uh and I I would say I didn't always agree with Mike um or Phil for that matter um but you know what I appreciated at the time and um and this isn't about Phil this is about Mike uh is that Mike was always willing to consider someone else's view on something he was very thoughtful about the issue at hand and you know we often work to kind of um find this uh common point and I think one of the things that I liked about Mike at the time that I didn't realize that I would appreciate over time is that especially on um some issues that were most important to him he was a policy wonk like I was he was very thorough and thoughtful about how his View and how an ordinance or piece of legislation would impact his neighbors would impact Hoboken um he you know he brought I I think he even ran um a couple times on like new ideas and what what was it new new ideas and new energy um and he did he you know he he represented a Generation Um that was probably underrepresented in in local government at the time and um really just tried to bring some fresh thinking or new thinking or whatever into the discussion and you know that's something he's done every step of the way um we ran together in uh 2015 um and you know and we've been you know I think people have witnessed on this de that we are not always um in agreement on policy on politics we often are in agreement on policy and politics um but where we're we've always been on the same side as um we've just been friends the entire time um I think that you know Mike when he came um you know he came onto the scene he's the first elected openly gay council person and I I don't think people understand the sign ific of that in government that having representation having you know having topics that reflect the diversity of a community be out in the open and being able to talk about it is very important it was something very important to him it still is very important to him and I think within Hoboken just as as the country has evolved as the state has evolved as we've all evolved you know he was part of that like evolving um public discussion about lgbtq issues ETC which I think makes us all a better person I I heard a a phrase a long time ago from the mustard sea school which is you are who you learn with and you just want to surround yourself with people that are different from you so that you're constantly learning new things and um I think with Mike you know we've learned a lot of new things over time he you know I I will tell you having you know he he's been a fierce independent voice um I think he's the definition of what that means which is he's willing to challenge anyone doesn't matter if it's the person who he seems aligned with if it's the person on the other side of the table um he'll challenge them if he feels strongly but he'll also sit at the table and and move to that the same side of the table with the same person that he challenged a week before and that kind of healthy debate and wanting to have people sitting at a table I think is um refreshing and will be missed and we all benefit from you know being more like that so uh I will say I do want to touch on just a couple couple of the things that I think he felt passionate about that people should um remember um you know he felt really passionate about the elore project around the train station you know some people didn't want to see it developed but it was when not an if and and he knew that and he said how are we going to make sure that this development works for Hoboken and you know his number one issue and he's always said this around zoning is you know what does the average resident experience when they're walking down the street at the resident ground floor level right and when you think about um the big giant project that's going to be at the pass station you know he was all about what is that individual experience he wanted to make sure that we had you know a European style Market there he wanted to see Warrington Plaza be completely transformed and used by people he wanted it accessible by bike accessible by you know pedestrian and those kind that kind of detail I can tell you was not a focus of anyone else except for Mike and the reason that we have those details in that plan and every detail like that is because that's kind of been Mike's Focus all along you could disagree with whether or not he likes big development whatever but he's always been consistent in his view it's about what your experience as a Hoboken resident is when you walk um down the sidewalk which I've um which I've learned a lot and you know I don't always agree with his zoning approaches and not because they're bad just because I come from a different influ might be influenced by different things but that um I think has been you know one of the the big issues I'd say the other or big contributions the other big contribution two other big contributions I just want to say really kind of sit squarely with him one is um parklets you know we whether you like them whether you're not like him generally people like to eat outdoors and you know right when Co started um he and councilman gatino you know and we heard from other people they said we need to make this happen they worked with the administration we were able to roll it out but it was really kind of put forth initially by Mike and then secondly is um we have you know and this came back to bite me in the ass but sorry um with uh the C3 zoning but we we all agreed that we needed to have a more um business-friendly zoning because all of our neighborhoods deserve the ability to have like retail and services and restaurants Etc you know within their neighborhood and we just weren't set up for that and Mike made this you know one of his missions and he worked with Jim and he worked with a number of people um to make that happen um and again it's you know it's made it easier for all of us that live here to have the kind of services and restaurants Etc that we want in our neighborhoods so there's I'm sure there's plenty more and everyone knows that I can keep talking but I just want to say um thank you for all you've done um thank you for um sticking it out um wishing you all the best and whatever you do I know we're you know this isn't the last that we're going to see of you and thank you for your friendship and I'm looking forward to everything that you know life offers to you and seeing it so thank you we up next thank you uh in my run of show memo uh I was told Tiffany's going to be long so you could be short so uh you know I met councilman the Fusco over 10 years ago now and it was you know fitting ree Fitz Gibbons who recently passed away is how uh introduced me to councilman the Fusco and he was like you have to meet this kid and again like coun Fisher said he has a lot of energy and it was he was like you mean the Energizer buzzing for the first time he was like whoa like whoa slow down guy but uh but it was like a breath of fresh air coming into the room and it was kind of like what we needed at the time because a lot of things we were doing like repetitious and we needed that new those new ideas and those new energies and so when the French Market does happen by elor site by New Jersey Transit you know Michael def fusco's fingerprints are going to be all over that for generations and generations to enjoy and I think for a lot of us that's why we get into public service right to leave an imprint on a place you love for people that you love and I think Mike did that with that project there and so it's been a pleasure to work with you the past eight years and if you've ever got a phone call from Mike and and you disagreed with what he was propos you go get that phone call back that's what this is about right when someone says no you got to try and convince them to what your your belief is and this this whole thing is about compromise and love of city and love of service I think Mike displayed that over his eight years in the council two years on a zoning board and being a Hoboken resident so Mike I thank you for your service I thank you for your friendship and we were lucky to have you thanks very good luck before I go to director Freeman I have a feeling maybe some of the other colleagues would like to add well wishes anyone at you and you said you wanted to add something so um Mike I just want to wish you luck uh you put your heart and soul into your service uh we served years together on the zoning board as councilman Fischer mentioned and uh and we we've been on other sides of issues but we've also come together as friends and I'll think of you as a friend and wish you all the best in the future congratulations thank you I wasn't prepared because I knew I wasn't on the short list everyone should get a chance um no I just wish you the best and it's been a ton of fun it really has so thank you for that thanks J sure I'll go along uh I've known you the least amount of time Mike um because I've only been here two years uh but uh you know I do appreciate your cander and that you wear your heart on your sleeve on all topics uh those are things that I've tried to emulate uh a little bit as well as as I progress on this Council so thank you for you know taking some of the time to meet with me in my two years and help me learn the ropes and I look forward to continue further conversations today is not the end thanks J Mike I just want to say thank you for all your service I really enjoyed our friendship and our comaraderie as council members together it's been an amazing time I know you're not going anywhere but um but you won't be sitting next to me up here uh at least for some time uh and now in January I get to be the best looking Michael on the council again so that's that's always a good thing but honestly I I really appreciate all of you done for for us as council members and for the city as a whole so thank you for all of it councilman well brevity is the soul of wit so I'll just say thank you Michael and you and I haven't always agreed but as uh councilman Ramos said you you are somewhat of a you're you're a mediator you'll you'll come back and you're looking for Solutions and there were times when I thought that there was no way we were ever going to get there and frankly because of you and your efforts we have gotten there many times so uh thank you for your service uh to this community certainly the the zoning board is is thankless and this is a little bit more satisfying uh but I I hope you have you go forward with whatever your endeavors are and have success so before I turn it over to director Freeman I will add um you know coming into this was under some I would say challenging circumstances when we first met I think both of us were in coming off of what was a really difficult period of time um but I really appreciate your honesty uh your honesty not just oneon-one in that situation kind of entering um coming into this Council for at that time but your honesty with people generally because I think you've really been open um and it is a very unique situation to serve in this capacity in a community that you are living in and trying to live your life in a way that's um you know truthful to you and who you are and it can be very uncomfortable and you've been very honest about those challenges and how that has gone for you for your family for your loved ones and I think that's really refreshing because it's not something that we all I think talk about very openly very often um and we all have kind of the shared experience um being in these seats so I've really enjoyed getting to know you personally and I wish you all the best thanks Emily director Freeman I turn it over to you my turn um I think before I read this and Mike we had to make it like smaller font and I had to expand the margins because we tried to get as much as we could into here but I think six or seven years ago if you going to ask me how I was going to feel councilman Mike def fusco's last council meeting I was going to be thrilled um but the reality is I'm thrilled for you I think you have been um as everyone has said before me the work that you have done on this Council before I sat in this chair um and the work that you're going to continue to do in the city when you're no longer sitting in that chair I think is incredibly admirable and something you should be incredibly proud of um the the things that we have gotten to do together over the past six plus years I've been like like all day I've been like writing down down different ones but between the work the work at Hoboken connect um the work at when you and I picked up the phone in the middle of Co and we're dealing with how to expand prep services for our prescription to ensure that everyone had access to those um really life-saving drugs um to the advocacy you do for historic preservation for um the underserved communities of of this city is really admirable and I I think we all owe you a big thank you know you have pushed us to be a better Administration youve pushed us to be a better city council you have pushed us to be a better City and and for that we are really really grateful um and I I'll I'll defer to you I wasn't in the schedule if you want me to read the whole Proclamation before we got up and do a whole picture I did want to if you walked in today to City Hall you noticed that um the pride flag was flying above um city hall and that is to honor Mike and um who he has been and how he has carried himself for the past eight years on the city council and and really we are so appreciative of your work and your leadership and um wish you nothing but the best going forward so thank you Mike really well that was um a beautiful uh and um unexpected U sendoff and I thought about what I wanted to say every to everyone and I want to keep it short because there's far too much that I could say um the zoning board really was a place that um I sharpened my teeth I learned about what it meant to be a public servant but it also honed my vision for what I wanted to do not just for Hoboken but for myself and for those in my circle around me my neighbors when I first came to Hoboken at 21 years old um it was a place that I was attracted to because of the Brownstones because of the Italian-American culture because you could walk down the street and know your neighbors but much like a lot of young people I had a lot of learning to do right and it was because of this community that I learned about myself so when I had the opportunity to serve on the zoning board there's not many 27 year- olds that get excited about studying the zoning book and sitting right underneath us in the basement of City Hall every other Tuesday night talking about zoning applications and D variances but I was actually excited about it and that's really kind of the five years that got me ready for for this for this seat and to work with everybody that you see here and everyone that came before them as well I wasn't expecting to be here truthfully I really was not um a lot of people looked at me as a kind of a fixture on the political scene not too long ago um because I did represent and remain a representative of a mindset that is underrepresented and that's not just the queer Community that's young people people under the age of 45 in Hoboken that want to see this community continue to inspire them and so the work that I've done to me isn't political to me it's always been it's been fun it's been policy it's been the things that not many people get the chance to do with their lives and so the European style Market making sure that artists makers inventors and creators can thrive in perpetuity at Newman leather thanks to my friend and colleague Jim Doyle and others making sure that we brought multimodal streets we help small businesses we brought a European style Market to the train terminal a building that I was told by the governor of the state of New Jersey would never happened because it had to be a Transit purpose we proved them wrong and that's where this chamber and that basement underneath us truly taught me not just to be a leader but to be a neighbor and that's why I'm so excited to go back to being a neighbor because up here you come under a lot of scrutiny you come under a lot of um a lot of eyeballs I leave the city for a couple couple days where's Mike tusco oh who's Mike tusco dating oh what's Mike tusco wearing I love being the topic of everyone's conversations but it's time for the time being to go back to being a neighbor and I think about all of these experiences and what it means to serve and this service isn't over for me it's a transition right I have nothing but respect for folks that serve multiple terms on this Council but unlike many others this office was never a sure thing for me the person that held it before me a wonderful representative of this community who deserves nothing but respect was a sure thing to get reelected for a sixth term everybody laughed at me they said Mike this isn't your time not now not you could try kid but it's not going to happen but for all the reasons I just talked about right it wasn't political for me I spoke my mind I spoke my heart I spoke what the vision I had for Hope Bok was and that's the beautiful thing about democracy is if you speak from your heart people may listen and that's where I want to go with the future I want to invest that same passion back into my career into my family my nieces my aging parents my neighbors my job my friends on the council and across the city deserve me in a different capacity and that's what I have the respect for everybody that sits up here everybody that sits upstairs like the mayor and Jason is that we all give a part of our heart we all stay on the phone talking to our constituents and to one another trying to find compromise to make the city a better place and so I get so frustrated at times where people look at me just as a politician because to me I'm more complex than that I'm somebody that has transcended politics that has brought the new energy and the new ideas that I've promised to this city to this chamber so many people don't choose to leave power power does not give up power that's like like Pol politics 101 you get taken out in election or you get taken out in handcuffs as the old Hudson County saying right am I right for me my decision not to run for a third term came from a very important place and it's a place of respect for myself I've done what I thought I set out to do and I still have a ton of energy left in me and a ton of ideas but for me to be the public servant I know I can be for everybody on the next stage of my political journey I need a break I need to travel I need to laugh I need to support ideas that are apolitical and this body has to make decisions that's what we do we have to make decisions and not all decisions are easy not all decisions are popular but they're decisions and 99% of the decisions I made up here I stand by there's maybe two votes I'm not going to say what those are that I I wish I could reconsider but by and large that ratio makes me feel good about what I've done so stepping aside is something I'm excited about but it's bittersweet because by all means I would have won a third term and I would have continued to serve here for another four years but in four years I promise you that I will be better faster stronger representative of this community and hopefully larger so I thank everybody my neighbors particularly the residents of the First Ward who believed in me in overwhelming numbers in the last election um I thank my colleagues for taking my calls for listening for understanding that perspective is important I thank the mayor for working with me that's a that's an interesting one right like I went from the fiercest critic publicly with this Administration to helping them behind the scenes try to be a better Administration and I was attacked by many of my opposition for cracking a deal with the mayor or saying that I somehow was a pawn how disrespectful a pawn for this Administration in reality what I did is I sat with the mayor I sat with Jason and I talked about ideas that would help them move things along long and I worked on this Council to find compromise and I was happy to see a friend in Paul presen Zano councilman elect pres Zano follow me so there was never a loss to not running again because I knew my colleagues on this Council would have a vote I knew the administration was in a better place and I knew my heart was stepping aside for the right reasons so I'm filled with joy tonight and I'm fil filled with joy seeing all these friendly faces in the crowd Eduardo Chief fany uh director sharp Haney Ahmed Manny who I I love to hear you speak maybe a little shorter next time listen God bless everyone happy holidays if you need me I'm only a phone call away and my voice will very much be there in a different capacity God bless you want to go up the Pro take the bunny okay next up we have a public hearing to discuss Church Square Park Vision plan uh director Gonzalez I believe you're going to lead this off oh no fancy movement is no longer moving oh y you want me to just go to that hold on I think it's okay I can ah there we go that's it thank you councilman uh council members thank you so much for having us here this evening um I am joined this evening by our Consulting team from arterial as well as our environmental planner and project manager Y pesar and we are here to present the Church Square Park Vision plan um as many of you know this has resulted from many months of community uh engagement stakeholder feedback uh including open houses at the park and virtual meetings and we have collected a lot of feedback including as recently as hours ago and actually uh updated the uh this uh plan and presentation in real time in response to uh to feedback as as we always love to do so um before I bring up the team from marerial I'd just like to acknowledge that one of the main changes that we've made to the plan um since our meeting on Thursday evening which we presented the final draft was that we've heard a significant amount of feedback regarding the basketball courts and we are very happy to uh amend the plan as it had been proposed on uh Thursday night which had called for uh restriping the courts to multisport courts that will no longer be considered instead those courts will remain as basketball courts um they are part of a um they are part of a uh phased plan that you'll hear more about this evening and um with without further Ado I'd like to bring up um James and Lexi from arterial and they'll provide the presentation and then we'd be can answer your questions council members in director can how soon will this Avail Beil online I the presentation from Thursday was online given the questions I believe already has been uploaded yes has it been updated online is already on ours and of sell great thank you thanks okay so uh thank you very much for the introduction so uh Lexi and I are going to present and we're going to present sort of a a quick version of the presentation so we're going to try and be brief cover as much as we can but like was mentioned it will be up online so you can take a deeper dive um so the first thing I'd like to do is just look at a background uh of the project and really review where we are in the process where we've been and spend most of our time looking at the vision plan itself so what you see is the timeline here we're in our fourth public meeting to present the vision that has been developed and it's really based on the feedback we've collected throughout the process and as director Gonzalez mentioned uh most recently comments we received from our Public Presentation last week but then we've continued to receive that comment and feedback through today and we've been changing and and amending as we have uh heard the public speak so we'll take all of this input that we receive any comments and and and thoughts tonight and we'll continue to make those necessary revisions to the plan before finalizing and submitting that at the end of January so what I'd like to just quickly do is look at sort of Church Square Park which was originally constructed in 1875 it really has evolved and adapted over time as the needs of the city and the community have changed so the vision that was set forth almost 150 years ago has allowed this Historic Park to really provide an invaluable respit for residents of the neighborhood uh most if not all Su successful Parks uh that many of us are probably familiar with and enjoy visiting have been carefully planned and the city has determined that it is again time to establish a vision plan that will set the course for it to continue to serve the Hoboken community and that is exactly what this a vision plan so it sets the course it doesn't dive into all of the detail those things come as the vision uh moves forward so um with that uh the next slide we'd like to just look at is a diagram that really what I'd like you to get out of this diagram is that one of the most important elements of the park is the historic tree canopy that provides shade and gives it the character that it has today as Landscape Architects obviously um trees are are nothing new to us we support and and obviously uh admire when we have old growth trees like this because it's not often uh that that you have this kind of asset and in 2020 the city completed an assessment of mature trees and launched an annual aricultural program The Vision plan will incorporate recommendations from this assessment making every effort to integrate mature trees seamlessly into the Design Concepts another crucial crucial aspect involves the strategic planning of new trees recognizing the finite lifespan of trees right we love them but at some point they they they die off right so uh it is really important to weigh the removal of mature trees that have been identified as diseased or dying with the planting of new ones with the planting of new trees the approach aims to mitigate the risk of losing the mature canopy all at once that is super important that's usually when we notice something like is wrong when all the mature trees are suddenly gone so as I touched upon briefly while we were looking at the project uh timeline we've gathered a wealth of invaluable input from a diverse array of individuals throughout this process uh our uh engagements included meetings with smaller groups um encompassing representatives from the religious institutions schools elected officials appointed officials Municipal staff we held an open house in the park at the end of March we spent 4 hours in dialogue with the public which resulted in well over a 100 comments thoughts questions ideas concerns um subsequent after that um we launched an a survey that went online which garnered over a thousand responses we combed carefully through those responses um we had another survey following the second public meeting uh during which we presented two concepts we had over 426 responses uh to that so we again comb through those responses and we've really put together we think a vision plan that comes from the community this isn't our plan to bring to Hoboken this is really meant to be a vision plan that was Community Driven so quickly the next two slides we're just going to look high level at some of the feedback um so the the slide that you see here we saw that close to 65 about 65% of the survey respondents wanted to see a balance of active and passive uses people were saying to us either there's not enough active uses there's too much active uses where did all the the passive Lawns go you know what happened so really a balance is what is what came out of that survey upgrades to the playgrounds the splash pad uh flexible uh expanding the flexible Turf area I'm going to say this but we know it's not going to happen but add pickle ball and fitness area but these things came up so we we we heard it all uh 40% would like to see more lawn and picnic areas so again upgrades to the Gazebo the restrooms reestablish ing more lawn areas picnic areas space for Cafe and vendors and then finally uh a good majority of people wanted to see landscape improvements things like planting of native species providing community garden space using pollinator plantings then we we um we had a few Design Concepts that we presented and we got some more feedback so some of that feedback is in front of you and we tested out some of these ideas that came up out of that first um survey some of the most fav able changes were upgrading of the restrooms updating The Lawns uh updating the playgrounds The Lawns some of the least favorable uh were the expanded Turf areas with Mounds we were showing steel screens for sound attenuation by the dog runs so um those were least favorable uh in in the second concept that we had showed updated restrooms playgrounds Lawns multisport courts and and again the the steel screens came up so we again we synthesize all of that and we're here tonight to preent uh present where we are with this draft plan so I'd like to start by looking at the current arrangement of the park which is the diagram on the left and you'll see that the active uses which are represented in Orange have been added to various quadrants over the years leading to really uh an unbalanced organization within the park it it tends to cause some friction especially playgrounds that aren't fenced in you have then um uses that are spilling over into other quadrants um in the diagram on the right those active uses push to the perimeter of the park where activity already exists in the form of vehicular pedestrian and bicycle traffic this opens up the center of the park around the Gazebo for more passive areas reinforcing the historic oval as a space for strolling sitting and Community Gathering and the last thing to note on this slide is a number of vision zero improvements will be incorporated along the park edges to continue the city's commitment to safety and our Focus again tonight is on the park itself so those improvements will be in the in the final Vision plan but we're going to spend our time on the the park so this diagram illustrates how the uses in the park can be organized and and how we're showing them so the outer two quadrants along Fourth Street now occupy the playgrounds for children of all ages broken into two groups 0 to 5 and 5 to 12 so those are the two that you see in yellow the two quadrants where the current playgrounds are located become lawn areas with planting beds around the perimeters uh the dog run remains in its current location the flexible Turf area is in the same location but includes the existing play area at the mid block entry across from Park a along with the path and the Triangular bed so there are two concrete paths on either side of the park that in our Discovery process weren't really historic paths so we're taking those to get some more space um because again there's a lot of people using the park there's a lot of people vying for this space so ways in which we can gain some more space with Without Really disrupting the historic uh uh configuration is what we tried to do the basketball courts pick up some extra space because of the path that runs through the center of it uh We've we've shown it being eliminated here this and we'll get more into that as we as we go through this the splash pad is incorporated into a new Plaza located where the current restroom and mechanical building sits providing a more flexible space for various events and programming uh the quadrant where the existing Splash Pad sits would become another lawn area with planting beds uh adjacent to the splash pad where the ground surface is mostly dirt would be rehabilitated um utilizing decomposed Granite as the main surface in an area being referred to as a picnic Grove which we'll describe in a little more detail later the Gazebo is renovated and includes a continuous set of steps on the western side opening it up to the newly created Plaza space it'll be ADA Compliant yes um the other two quadrants located at Willow and fifth remain as lawn are so those are the the the top two there there yeah okay so next Slide Can you also go and point out where the bathrooms are I got a lot of questions about where the restrooms were being relocated to can you see the hand there so at the corner of uh garden and fifth thank you so so they're gonna they're you're moving the restrooms from interior to the edge correct so the the next slide is just a quick comparison when you look at Square footages we really tried carefully to make sure that nothing was getting out of balance um so on the left the empty sort of rectangles are the existing condition the existing square footage and then the solid color to the right is the proposed so when you look across they're they're relatively equal um the picnic Grove we're counting as a separate thing but that really can go into the sort of lawn tree area decomposed Granite is a natural material but currently that quadrant if you look at it is is just dirt um so we kind of separate it out out that way can uh continue moving on can I ask one quick question yeah the where's the sun I know you move the um the splash park around did you move it to a place where it's sunny or is the splash park in the shade under the tree canopy cuz wasn't it more in an area that had a little more sun so I mean if you think of where that where it exists today and where it's moved It's relatively in the same location in regards to Sun yeah okay okay so this is a aerial perspective providing a bird's eyye view of The Envision layout for the park before delving into some specific elements that we're going to go through on subsequent slides I'd like to highlight a few key things uh first is one of the significant aspects of the feedback we received emphasize the importance of restoring the Park's landscape so throughout its history the park served as a refuge from urban life offering a space to escape and appreciate a more natural environment so the vision builds upon prior initiatives and incorporates a predominantly native plant pallet featuring a diverse array of tree species shrubs perennials to ensure yearr round seasonal interest that will be included in the vision plan we're not going to look at the images and the list necessarily tonight uh some other notable components include plant bed fencing and irrigation for all beds in lawn areas uh the plant bed fencing aims to protect landscape beds from being trampled and the irrigation is really essential for establishing plants and helping out with the maintenance of of lawn areas the second important point to to look at while we're on this aerial is the more natural and historic F of the park and how that plays an important role in any of the materials the colors and the style of various elements ensuring that they strengthen that historic character and then finally like I mentioned previously in alignment with the city's Vision zero efforts the streetscape surrounding the park includes corner and midblock bump outs with green infrastructure incorporated into those areas the historic blue stone will be relayed along the park edge with tinted concrete for the main sidewalk space and permeable pavers in key locations so there's a couple slides now that we're going to walk through as we kind of walk uh and look at the different quadrants first we start with the existing dog run with sound attenuation in mind specific plants have been chosen to help reduce noise and buffer the sound from the dog run creating a continuous wall of planting will help reduce the visual connection to the dog run as well as the noise secondly uh you can see in letters b a new fenced in playground is created in these quadrants and it would be worked into the existing tree Network to provide a more natural playground aesthetic as the image shows so that image actually is of a playground that we designed in Montclair probably coming up on eight or 10 years ago where there was mature trees and it's really in the detailing uh that you can keep those mature trees it's important the way it's constructed and that you know those root zones and stuff like that aren't aren't messed around with so it can be done but it does take careful attention uh again the 0o to five playground is located in uh to the left of the letter c and the 5 to 12 in the lower quadrant closer to the corner of garden and forth so the next uh letter C this quadrant is envisioned as a picnic Grove taking advantage of the natural canopy of trees that already exist and replacing the dirt with a decomposed Granite landscape beds along the perimeter picnic tables additional seating and outdoor games where the existing ping pong table can be relocated really providing that place where people can come hang out eat their lunch or dinner and and um entertain either their families or friends so the yeah letter D by relocating the restrooms and mechanical equipment to the corner of Garden in Fifth Street this once Barren quadrant when you look at it now again it's a lot it's a lot of dirt um is transformed into a versatile Plaza featuring an interactive Fountain suitable for water play The Fountain can be turned off allowing for diverse programming such as performances at the Gazebo with the option to set up chairs as part of the renovation the Gazo would be enhanced incorporating stairs around the West Side to create a more open connection to this side of the park and that will be we'll look at that in a little bit more detail as we look at some renderings towards the end of the presentation the existing Dolphins will be revital uh refurbished and positioned as public art within this newly developed area at the rear of the plaza you'll see that there is ter seating which will be installed offering space for Outdoor Classroom seating during gazebo performances just casual seating on a day-to-day basis and then because those Terrace seat seats offer some height um we're integrating public lockers into the back of the Terrace seating um not only enhancing the functionality but serving as a potential uh Revenue source for the park a lot of people came to us and said it would be great I would be happy to pay for space here to keep some of the stuff that I I cart back and forth every day excuse me are you going to get to sustainability at or is that something that is that's yes the when you talk sustainability that's going to be incorporated into the plan with with the plants with the materials that that kind of thing so I'm not necessarily going to address it specifically in in in any kind of detail I'm trying to get through an overview okay yeah I get you but like retention detention that kind of stuff or just obviously permeable ground is yeah we we and we we we talked about permeable pavers green infrastructure rain Gardens at the corners okay located in strategic areas throughout the passive zones would be small seating Pockets so again some of the things that we've heard where the benches are going away I have no place to sit I just want to sit and relax in the park so we're trying to re reestablish that restore that but then also provide that backdrop of nice planting so the oval represents a more formalized walking and strolling path that's just under a fifth of a mile on this inner loop uh and again these are seating Pockets along this along this inter Loop and it provides access to all the different quadrants so next up is the yeah the small linear Plaza this is really treated as um this space for seating Pockets the flexibility to accommodate a variety of vendors such as small programming the book sales that kind of thing some some small markets and in this configuration the statue is rotated to face the plaza and the Gazebo so we get to the basketball courts with the oh no this is the turf area so with the elimination of the concrete sidewalk cut through that I mentioned before we can expand the turf area to incorporate that small triangle and also the small uh play space that was located at the mid block there and again this was something that came up to us over and over again we need more flexible space we don't want to expand the turf and take up natural lawn areas in places where there's already lawn so we thought this was an opportunity to do that thoughtfully and and uh keep it in a place that it that it already is again there's lots of people kicking soccer balls throwing footballs just sitting and hanging out so we've also provided um buffer uh with planting around it and fencing to uh protect it from the street so finally the courts are rehabilitated to eliminate the concrete sidewalk that separated the two full courts that gives us a little bit more space to have regulation siiz basketball courts the two full-size basketball courts then are are regul size um and then also the two half courts um if you'll notice the little little area by the statue to the east of the statue almost acts as a little entry Plaza into the courts themselves there's two gates to get into the courts the Gary white plaque is is located in this uh uh location and also provides this the fencing there provides for opportunity for additional signage to the courts if desired and with redoing the courts um any more Graphics branding to to uh Gary White can be incorporated into the court itself a lot of times the center circle has some kind of logo so uh that's something that can also be um Incorporated there's uh some drinking fountains additional seating in in the in the courts themselves to allow for spectators um and again the idea is to reinforce the courts namesake so quickly now we're just going to look at a few different perspectives which will hopefully give you a better visual of a lot of the stuff was a seating put a basketball court there sure go back so you can yeah point it point it out Lexi so along the edge there at the middle of the regulation courts there good yeah okay yeah okay so yeah so this this view I is you're standing on the sort of inner loop to the left is the zero to five playground to the right um would be the the sort of picnic Grove and the Gazebo is if you keep going to the right so again this is really meant to show the the fencing we're trying to make it more of a historic fence steel something that's strong can last a test of time any of the playground equipment that's chosen really needs to take that natural aesthetic into account so that it really Blends in and works with the existing canopy with the plantings and that kind of thing uh to the right you can see the plant bed fencing helping mitigate you know people from walking through uh those plant beds which will help better protect the plants give them more opportunity to survive um permeable pavers would be envisioned for this um keep keep going Lexi yeah so then this is hopping on the other side of that Loop so you see the natural lawn areas you see these um planting and and seating pockets on the left you could the dog run is in the background um keep going this jumps to the Gazebo is to our back and what you're looking at is that sort of linear Plaza area which on a day-to-day basis has seating uh that people can just you know sit read a book book and and relax it can also support some small vending uh opportunities the book sale or some uh markets or uh coffee that kind of thing uh keep going there Lexi this is a view you can see the Gazebo the spray Plaza is to the left there uh that that Terrace seating is is behind it um again the idea with the Gazebo was to open it up so it becomes more functional especially for any kind of performances it could be you know you could sit on the steps on a day-to-day basis but then it opens it up to that area where if you have larger performances both the lawn on the on the right and the picnic roove on the left people can can watch uh and listen to the performances there so that is again is the vision in a nutshell I know it's a lot and we kind of went through that really fast but the last slide I would just like to leave you with is we've been working with uh with the director for phasing of the of the of the vision plan so again I I want to stress it's a vision it it it you know that vision is established but then takes years and years to implement and it just basically gives a a direction for the city to move uh in the future so the numbers represent the way in which we see the improvements laying out so number one including the dog run buffer the 0o to5 uh playground which encompasses the new playground and then converting the old one to to lawn number two is the spray Plaza with the restrooms and the mechanical equipment and uh the the old Splash Pad area being being returned to lawn number three is the picnic Grove then the 5 to 12 playground and returning the existing 5 the 12 playground to lawn number four is the Gazebo renovation um and the linear Plaza five is the expans Ed Turf area and then six would be the courts so with that thank you very much for your time appreciate you listening through me talking really quickly trying to get through all that and happy to answer any questions Could you actually in director Gonzalez this might be for you but could you just um identify in terms of what's actually happening tonight for purposes of this meeting could you just be clear about what it is um that we are deciding on relative to this larger Vision plan uh yes so uh per the public park the parks public hearing process this is a public hearing on a vision that will be approved at a later date um we are uh anticipating submitting an application for the first phase which solely includes the uh 0 to5 um toddler playground area the uh vegetated buffer that is surrounding the dog run um and the reestablishment of a lawn in the location where the toddler play area was that phase one um we hope to submit an application in February to the New Jersey D for funding and that is why the second item on the agenda this evening is the approval of an engineering design contract solely for that work not an approval of the vision plan and nothing further than just engineering design of phase one thank you very much president sure just a couple questions um and I'm totally in agreement about the change to the uh basketball courts but I would like to understand what what happened and how we came to that conclusion so was that I'm assuming it wasn't the original thousand respondents for the survey I'm assuming that there's other feedback that the city got over the last couple days uh and what did that look like what was the what was that in totality was that five residents was that certain council members was that emails to the city how did we come up with that conclusion so I think yeah yeah sure I mean we we heard a lot of feedback through uh social media quantify that for me what what's a lot I'm not sure I could I could go back to social media and count for you if you'd like uh you know I we were going Bas in general ballpark I mean it was I don't I don't know if I really don't councilman so we a lot on soci social media do we get emails associated with that do we get people calling I did I believe that I believe that some emails were received um only three emails and none of them were about the courts today were actually received to the project email address however I do believe that some emails were received perhaps in other offices of of the city um furthermore the Environmental Services Committee of the city council met on Monday evening and we discussed feedback that several council members had received indicating that there um was a preference to not have multiport courts and therefore we made that change okay and then you also said that you had uh during that process the public process you had conversations with religious institutions what what institutions were those is the list again do you want to pull this pull the list um the first one that we met with was um Our Lady of Grace um we met with um I don't remember the name exactly but I know it's a church that is relocating that was about a couple of blocks away that's relocating to the north end of town I got the list you have it yeah so Our Lady of Grace Hoboken Grace Community Church um All Saints Episcopalian all that's a school uh so those are the those are the two churches that we met with okay and in those conversations um I'm I'm sure you're aware that Our Lady of Grace has been requesting something some type of change to the dog park so that um so that they could worship in a quieter kind of a um quieter setting yes are you aware of the over 600 residents all Catholic Pastors in the city of Hoboken from Our Lady of Grace Saints Peter and Paul St Francis St Joseph St ANS the Cardinal from the arch dasis of Newark are you aware that all of those people have requested again in the form of a petition to the city of Hoboken to do something about the dog run at this park yes and I believe director Gonzalez is yeah we we did receive that petition that however was not the broader um sentiment that we understood from the survey responses or the open house or the broader Community engagement that did but you are very correct we consulted with them as a stakeholder and we received that petition so we had a th respondents overall in the beginning of this we had almost 600 respondents from one specific church about the dog run so that's 600 those 600 people a lot of those residents are my residents in the Third Ward residents I represent so we're taking those 600 individuals in the city of Hoboken and we're disregarding what their concerns are so that they could practice their religious beliefs in a calm setting councilman I don't think I'm sorry direct excuse me so my concern is that we disregard that and my bigger concern is that we're disregarding that because of the pastor of that church because if it was father Chris from St Francis or if it was someone else from a different church we wouldn't be so obstinate about trying about trying to solve a problem that we now have an opportunity to solve no one's asking anyone to get rid of the DOR Park no one's asking anyone to do anything other than try to help a church and its its um uh parishioners to Worship in the way that they're asking that's what we've been asking for that's what we'll continue to ask for and I don't understand how in a week's time we were able to make a significant change to the basketball court without any numbers associated with that other than social media maybe a few emails to counsil people it's very very concerning to me that we're disregarding a whole segment of the population I would really like to know why we're not considering making a move for this door or changing the way it looks or the way the sound travels into that church they are that is incl yeah if if I that um Council we have added a vegetated buffer to mitigate the sound traveling to the church we we did hear those responses and I and I hear your your comment and I I appreciate that um we did try to respond to all feedback and please do not take this as disregarding anything we listened to everyone and tried to come to a compromise that worked which was mitigating the noise which we understood to be the primary concern um thank you so what what are the studies on that vegetation what are the studies in stopping sound from traveling through that into the church do we have any feedback do we have any concrete objective measures to show that that's actually going to do what we're saying that it's going to do or are we just putting up a couple of bushes so that we could say we handled it because that's what it feels like to me because as a as a practicing Catholic in the city of Hoboken I'm offended that my entire religious community is being disregarded it's not just one Pastor from one church it's all the pastors and all the priests in the city of Hoboken that are asking us to make a change it's very concerning to me it's very very concerning to me questions sure taking the emotion out of it why wasn't it considered um to move the dog park no no no I'm sorry I was director I just want to hear from the planner like because like you you're you're involved in the politics of it all I just want to hear from a planning perspective actually not why is the dog park why does the dog park need to stay where it is in front of a church so if I can answer this you know from some background that that we've gotten and direction that we've gotten one of the just to really back up when you look at Best Practices for Parks locating the active uses to the edges is one of the best practices because again you are putting active uses near where you already have activity right like I mentioned vehicular traffic Bic bicycle traffic and pedestrian traffic from what I understand the city had already in invested uh a significant amount of money into that dog park location so that at this moment in time it was directed to us that it really would not make fiscal sense to move that at this time time so that was directed to us so what we worked with the with director Gonzalez on was what can we do to as best we can mitigate the sound and so this is the comparison I would make that I think most people would understand if you have an empty room and you go in the empty room and and you you know do that you're going to hear The Echoes when you start to lay carpet down you start to put things into that room it helps mitigate that noise so there's a similar thing when it comes to landscape and plants and the textures and the kind of plants that you use covers shrubs making sure there's that continuous uh wall of vegetation that can help mitigate the sound um sometimes it's a visual thing but that's how I would that's how I would respond to that so what is sorry I'm sorry just one one more question here so a couple years back there was a community outcry about dogs on the on Park grass right and so going off that vibing off that I would think that making it easier for dog owners to access a dog run from the street and not having to walk through a park where a dog might be tempted to use the grass that are is also used by uh young families and and toddlers would be a good thing so like I guess from a planning perspective I I I well I well appreciate the desire to save save some money but that that dog park as it is is not in great shape and it constantly needs repairs um wouldn't the better location be like fourth and fourth and Garden Street where frankly one of the basketball courts is and then add an additional basketball court in front of the church that may not be as um egregious to the would be C I actually think it's in very good shape I take my dog there I don't know take my dog there I don't have concerns about it the conditions I was just trying to offer a solution because I will tell you that councilman Russo is not wrong and I don't always agree with thank you council president counc Ramos yeah what is uh just pck back over off there their concerns what is the square footage difference between the dog run being phase number one and the number one by to the east of the Gazebo is there a big square footage difference because maybe that location there is much better being the internal portion of the park further away from any housing and the church as well if dogs are barking and running around that square footage is minimal between where the existing do run is that area there looks and that's just to be grass right and the new planet just going to be a lawn area cor so maybe it is it is we can switch with that a little B less square footage yeah I'm sure it's less but how it said how much less is it is it I'd have to go back and look is it significantly less is it like 400 feet less is it 75 100 I mean that we we can look into that excuse me because maybe that is a more viable option well we'll calculate the square footage for you excuse me we'll calculate the square footage for you yeah maybe that's more viable option uh going that direction I think the benefit of how this is coming through is that we're really focused just for purposes the vote tonight to director gonzale point so I think it allows us to have some time to look at additional options to the extent there are more changes to be made the thing is tonight we're also talking about phase one being implemented this is this is part but it doesn't I don't think correct me if I'm wrong director Gonzalez but it doesn't matter exactly where necessarily to pursue that do we have to scope exactly the location within the park to proceed with the engineering plans uh so we do have the location of uh of quadrant one uh as you see on the screen there in basically the southwest corner of the park um for the new toddler playground and that's really what the focus of um Phase One is because that's actually what the grant funding source is now um you know in terms of restoring the current location of the toddler playground to Alon area um you know if the council wanted to reconsider that you know we can we can come back and perhaps discuss in subcommittee I think that's that might be a more viable option to solve what we're looking to solve t tonight long term I'm sorry not just tonight long term I don't know what the square footage is why I asked the question about the square footage I kind know it separates two for bigger dogs and smaller dogs now councilman gtino thank you can you just talk more about the shrubs that you're planning on planting a long Willow sure um I don't have the list in front of me um but again there the idea would be different heights different textures um having making sure that there's ground cover right now it's there's there's no ground cover so any way that you can bounce and deflect sound is the idea of using the plants to do that so right now when you look at what's there there are holes in that vegetation there's there's no ground cover so sound there's nothing to bounce off of it at all so or there's there's little so you foresee it not just being one set like it is now of bushes but correct L lay yes layer but layered depth height yeah council president um so in the in the second word we have two dog parks that are surrounded by shrubs um one is the Maxwell dog park and one is the Harborside dog park and it it honestly it helps like I think if before we throw this entire plan out it's probably worth you know going and kind of visiting like when you walk to the Maxwell Park um and dogs like are in there and they're running around and they're bark barking or whatever you don't really hear it because not only is it I think and this isn't scientific but not only is it like not it's sound attenuation it's like visual attenuation because there's other stuff that just happens you know you have birds in the bushes and you just it like just it adds to it takes away from you know the accentuation of you know certain noise coming out of the space and the one over by Harborside Park which isn't you know it's kind of a big dirt pit at this point but um when dogs are running around there and they're barking and stuff you you B basically just don't hear them so it's um I think it's you know before we change this whole entire park because not withstanding you know making this Swap and I take my dog here every once in a while you're shrinking it dramatically you're taking away from the entire Spirit of this plan which is to make the oval really be around the inside around this gazebo I mean imagine all of you know the green fair and other events where suddenly you're there and you just have this you know this lack of con you know you have this Active Space directly you know next to it so I just I think it's worth you know maybe taking a field trip up there and and taking a look at it before you know we make that um decision that would be my recommendation Council um first of all thank you for presenting and and dealing with our questions and kind of the level of intensity that perhaps you weren't prepared for but it's Hoboken totally um I just wanted to agree with councilman Fischer um what this is the I'm sorry can you say that one more time please it's the holiday season exactly new le new year new May um you know the as you presented it this is the concept here is an overall Vision let's kind let's restore the oval uh in the middle let's have you know the the the the lawn space I think if we just quickly kind of revert to uh and change it and switch and throw a dog park in the middle of there that kind of for me it blows up the whole the whole concept and and while I I empathize with the parishioners of Our Lady of Grace and I am a practicing Catholic in town and I did see that petition and I did not sign it because I kind of questioned where it was coming from um I do think it makes sense that we as Council offer said let's see what we can what what the impact is going to be on the the sound let's engage with the church and and see if this is an acceptable solution um share with them the entire vision for the entire park and see if they're okay with it and they might not be and that's fine um but let's have that additional conversation before you know we react and and and just take all this hard work and really kind of throw it out the window kind of sure council president sure counc if I just add one PS uh I understand that there was a a wall or a screen that was not favored you know if you bury it it amongst amongst shrubs maybe it will be not visual it will be less offensive and maybe that solves some of the problem you know just yet another sound deadening approach and if you install like more mature Hedges not small ones like install the six foot ones they cost a little more and like councilman Doyle said embed you know something like that and the other thing I know we we had a text exchange just about putting the um the Adolescent park next to the dog park and one of the things that we talked on our text exchange was um just maybe just putting the shrubs all the way around the park because if some of that movement of kids around the dogs is an issue you know maybe it's just literally enclosing the park like Maxwell Park which is a you mean the dog run the dog run I'm sorry an almost fully enclosed dog run with shrubs by the shrubs and that may just you know give it some of the privacy and um sound in activity um buffers that may be needed and you can do it in a way that can make sense for the church and for the kids that are playing next door as well councilman Coen thank you council president uh with respect to shrubs and sound attenuation I know that when we had our uh multi-purpose field that was out at 12th in Adams uh there were complaints from the neighborhood about noise from the kickball fields and one of the first things that the city did was to put in a sound design plan with respect to shrubs uh of varying Heights uh to try and minimize the sound and the complaints have there's still complaints I'm still getting them but they're not they're they have slowed somewhat uh I think part of it is because the shrubs haven't fully grown in yet uh so maybe it's possible to consider to have mature plants put in as opposed to uh baby shrubs uh to try and and try to have as an immediate impact as possible with with respect to the sound attenuation thank you counc president council president uh just briefly I appreciate everybody trying to solve for an issue in real time but I do want to remind everybody if in fact that doesn't work we lose the one and only opportunity to make a change there's other areas in this park it doesn't necessarily have to be the the one area that councilman Ramos suggested there's other ways that we could look at this and that is the concern to me that we haven't looked at it from that perspective said it yourself you got some information and you went on that information I don't fault you for that it's your job that's what you're supposed to do but this has been an ongoing issue specific to the church across from our dark Park we did not look at a solution the way we should have looked at a solution from the beginning if I asked you to redesign this park here today and gave you all all those parameters it's O wide open solve for that I'm sure there would have been a very different plan before us I'm sure you're highly intelligent people have looked at this and I'm sure they could have solved for the problem that's what I'm asking everybody to do take a step back solve for the problem and try to fix it for us thank you so thank you so much for this presentation um sure can you go back one slide sure which one so um those are all benches the black correct yes so that I do think will be very beneficial um with the conflicts between playground number one and the dog run the things that we were discussing today I don't remember if they were there in the past yes but I think that's a huge benefit great um I just wanted to add I really appreciate some of the changes that you've made um with respect to the playground in particular I think uh a common complaint that I get about church square is the fact that certain areas aren't fenced in and how challenging that is for parents who have small children running in every direction um I like the fact that the younger and the older parks are now adjacent to one another it feels very similar to the layout at Columbus Park by comparison I know parents who like to be able to stand right in the middle and have eyes on both parks because they have children who one who wants to go that way one who wants to go that way so I think this solves for a lot of the common complaints that I get from parents who are using this park um and I appreciate I think the phasing in how we're thinking about this really allows us to kind of plan as we go and I appreciate the changes that were made already with respect to the basketball courts I certainly heard a lot of feedback about that um and I think this is responsive to what we were hearing from the community to focus on basketball as the main activity for those particular courts um so thank you for making these changes um I do want to point out since this is a hearing I do believe we have members of the public who have the opportunity to also ask questions um so I'm going to ask if we have excuse me signups members of the uh public had signed up for the uh public hearing first person up is Christina repella council president when the while the person comes out just a quick comment sure uh just based on so what councilman Jabor said with regards to the basketball courts right so I'm extremely appreciative of also the the lines of the shared space being eliminated but can someone do me a favor and don't leave a name just yell the person who thought that was a good idea so put the lines in the basketball court just like reprimand them that was a bad idea what what made you think of that could that should have been a non-starter from the beginning Christina I think we just um members of the public are gonna use this mic so you might want to just maybe move to the side here you come up for your question yep I surgery thanks so much for changing the basketball thing that was huge huge but I still don't understand why change it at all especially since there's according to that plan no fencing between the courts how do you play two games of basketball without fencing you know the even in the presentation I watched the video they said oh we're getting rid of this pesky fencing it's just like well it has a purpose and there's been lighting there you know that was installed not that long ago there's no need to eliminate that walkway and change anything in my mind also thank you about the Dolphins if I mean I would love to have them incorporated into the new splash pad that would be ideal cuz I've lived in Hoboken 36 years and being a mom a nanny a babysitter um a prek teacher at collabro of farmers market man manager I've lived years in that Park and I know how important that Park is to the community it's like the heart and soul of Hoboken and it really needs to a it needs Improvement yes restrooms yes that's really important to have something new there and um that gazebo plan is beautiful but that picnic Grove I mean concrete stone you know it's like how do you have a picnic on Stone if you've ever gone down to Pier a and see that Stone Grove or what that is the most unused piece of real estate in Hoboken nobody goes there who who does anything there that's a huge piece of land that's covered in stone you know and that's like the stupidest idea I mean I'm sorry you know I I was like maybe it's European or whatever I don't know but it just doesn't make sense to me what else was I going to about um there's no no but it's it's like a lot of the plans now that you're talking about the dog park yeah why not move it maybe over that quadrant by the library oh I forgot the biggest one of all so many schools use that Park and I don't think that was taken in consideration at all and when you're talking about eliminating your your making a nice grass oval around the Gazebo that means taking out a huge playground and moving it all into that small area where the swings are I mean where do the kids play it's just like that the the biggest number of users of that Park are kids at school you know and and it just it makes no sense to make the playground area smaller it it's it's you know it's nice to have everything look all pretty and green but the place is going to be used and you need to have an area that you know that the kids can play on so um thank you for listening and I hope we can go forward with everything I suggested thank you um just to add I do believe that school administrators were counted as part of the stakeholder meetings that were held um but you want to address the question with respect to separating the basketball courts yeah yeah if I could just address I think I could remember most of the points um so we were looking at originally it was brought up to us that there was the you know the park was historic and that a lot of the fencing around all of the courts was sort of taking away from that a little bit so what we tried to do was clean up that fencing increase the size of the courts so we heard the idea of well then what happens when you try and have two groups in there at once so what we thought you could do is is you could come in and still have just the perimeter fence but use a divider curtain so that you can separate the courts off so that you can play on one Court without interference from the other they they're done in indoor courts all the time so it was something that we we could look at uh to mitigate that that concern uh the second was the well the the Dolphins we heard loud and clear when we were in the park so you know we were our thought again was to incorporate them into the interactive Fountain into that new spray Plaza so that they're there as public art um the the picnic Grove right so if it was European would it be smart then no um the idea with the picnic Grove really was the grass there is not growing it's just dirt so from a maintenance standpoint it's clearly an issue so we thought decompose Granite which is a natural material and picnic tables so that you can picnic on the tables this isn't the kind of place you would put a blanket down and go on the lawn right there's lawn areas that you could do that at so the idea was that there's some diversity in the spaces themselves so a picnic Grove could handle more of that picnicking activity without beating up the lawn um and could take some of the some of that off of the lawn um and then the playground size so on the side where the swings are currently again we would be doing the same thing on the other side where we're taking that small stretch of concrete sidewalk out and taking that the the the planting bed there and incorp operating that entire area for the 5 to 12 playground uh so you're really almost the same square footage there it might be 200 square feet less um but it's it's roughly roughly the same size thank you the next member of the public uh Cheryl phallic good evening Council um and through the chair councilman Russo I I actually understand the the sentiment about feeling that the I'm not Catholic but the Catholic constituency or whatever is being ignored uh we do have a tendency to sort of leave different constituencies by the wayside um so I'm glad you spoke up about that one there are others I'm in one of them um in general I am curious about the overall cost and I guess my personal feeling would be if it's not fully covered by by grant money then maybe we shouldn't do so much um I just don't think it's that bad um I would also say since the one complaint that I've been hearing about and maybe it's because I attend Council meetings or watch Council meetings is the issue with the dog run whatever anybody thinks of Father Sor sor um maybe that is something that should have been tackled for I don't know I don't have a dog I have a cat sort of um but um you know it it's something that is bothering somebody and obviously bothering uh parishioners so maybe maybe we should step back um I personally think that we go a little too far sometimes with consultants and we create like Stepford parks and to me that's what a lot of our other parks are I think part of what everybody loves about a city sometimes the urban environment type thing is sort of that chaos and haphazard thing that happens as things sort of evolve over time and so I'm concerned that we're trying to like structure and organize a little too much um I also would ask that we and I know that we're I just everybody else knows I did speak with council president before this meeting so I know there's a Time Timeless issue about applying for a grant which is why I'm not standing on laurels about public hearing 10 days committee and then vote but if we could follow the no changes to the park ordinance subsequent to this to the letter um Dan Thompson and I are actually partial architects of that so it's near and dear to our heart and I feel like this this is too much and it's really not a hearing uh the last thing I'll say since we are talking about moving the um well I'm not crazy about putting lockers I know we didn't use the word lockers but the I mean bleachers like there's going to be lockers and it's it sounds like there's going to be bleachers on the passive side so that's a little confusing to me um I also I don't live on Fourth Street but I think moving I don't know how moving all the activity to the corners is best practices cuz that's moving all the noise to the corner so if I lived on Fourth Street and I just paid a boatload of money for a condo or a multif family I might be annoyed with suddenly more playground area being plopped where something was passive now I could be wrong about that I don't live there it's not my personal problem but I just kind of feel like I don't know maybe back off consider the dog run thing first before we do everything I don't think it needs as much I'm glad the dolphins are back they weren't in the original presentation I'm glad they're staying um that is part of the historic thing people thought oh and like too much AstroTurf that's another thing that from a historic perspective was a hot button issue uh a lot of I think maybe speaking of demographics not listened to people who've been in the church square fight park for years while we certainly all could participate in the survey they're push surveys do you like this or that you don't have an option to say neither so just going forward thank you very much for listening thank you Alex AR uh oh hello nice to speak to you Council are you trying to do something we're just trying to move it the microphone up to you um thank you for taking the time to hear um I am a member of congregation at Our Lady of Grace Church and um I'm also work in the design profession I've um through my experience I'm not a landscape architect but I work with Landscape Architects I've spoken to a couple of Landscape Architects since the present the zoom meeting last Thursday and um neither one of them felt that they could um they could go to a client and say that there was any actual sound attenuation or noticeable sound attenuation that would be um found from plantings they it's just not an argument that they felt comfortable to make um in any type of um job setting um sound ination or blocking the sound from coming to the church would really need to be from a wall structure um you know if you're along a highway years ago they used to plant trees along there now they're PL then they put up those tall barriers in order to block the sound and reflect it back to the highway because it just really doesn't block the sound coming into the neighborhood um for the sound that if if it was insisted upon to to continue using try to use the the plantings here um I think a sound study would be warranted NC ratings for the plantings that are going to be used the amount of area um the sound absorption of the total mass that would be there um again I don't think that in my experience in the design field I have not seen that done with a with a planting solution um in regards to some of the the observations of some of the council members where there has been plantings done at other Parks or other dog runs and all um I would imagine a lot of that comes from you know a psychological effect of having you know a a a visual barrier between the dog run and it and and there might be a little bit um I'm not I I won't argue with you with that but the difference is where those occur um you're um there's other traffic noise and other stuff going by it's not Sunday morning at church where people are meditating and praying and all it's more akin to you trying to go to bed at night and having a very busy area out there with the dogs you know and you have the smells of the dogs too the church would like to keep the doors open to invite more people in people want to have weddings there they want to have um baptisms there um it just kind of takes away from it compromises The Experience there at the church and the mission of what the church is trying to do um from my point of view I think it would be excellent if it was able to move the dog run to along Fifth Fifth Street um to plot Number Five or to the other one that's on the corner of um Willow and um fist Street both of those are very large I think it would probably be comparable in area to the existing dog run or maybe larger um you could if you took the turf field at the corner of um Fourth Street sorry not Fourth Street Fifth Street and um Garden or yeah garden and flipped it you could put the dog run down at that that area and put the turf area um on the North side which is actually closer to um the um is it Mustard Seed school um on the corner there and I'm sure that the children at the school there would love to use that turfield and it would be very easy to get to it thank you thank you Shea Brenan hi everybody um I wasn't planning to speak but having seen the presentation a couple things came up for me could you put the um slide back with the drawing of the plan that one okay so I lived in lower Manhattan for many years before moving to Hoboken and I remember they went and um move the massive fountain in Washington Square Park to bring it more in symmetry with the Washington Square Arch which as a resident and none of us could understand why go to the trouble why spend the money the park is just fine but they wanted it symmetrical so what I see here is the the diagonal walkways not meeting properly the way I mean as long as you're at it can you straighten those out so that you have some real symmetry with the walkways are all sort of like kind of ending where they end but not in a an a proper X small point but it was very darring to me second Point um I want to disagree with my councilman uh Russo about the dog park um I think what we have to think about also and I am not a Catholic anymore raised Catholic no longer Catholic um what we have to think about are the people that have dogs here I mean Hoboken is the most dog friendly City I've ever had the pleasure to be in or live in in my life the dogs are everywhere and I think having um the dog park we need to consider those not that the dogs are constituents but the dogs owners our constituents and that use I think should stay exactly where it is um it's been there for ages I'm sure and I say let the dogs be dogs and if at the most as a compromise with the church I would say maybe you can limit the hours of the dog park when mass is happening um you know or other festivals or whatever but um I say let the dogs be dogs and they're an important part of what makes Hoboken great thank you thank you Manny Rivera did you sign up did you sign up did you sign up yes rben ask be signed Jerry can you give him the sheet to sign up he's give it you right here Ser go ahead good evening council president uh members of the public uh thank you for your attendance today it is very um again as I always say it is very um important to have the input of the citizen and as many as possible not like our elections that we get a uh short uh a smaller turnout so today is impressive and good so I would like to ask a couple of questions I was at many of the meetings and the points that were made today are very important as well but um I want to speak on first the cost of this phase the first phase that's never mentioned or maybe it was mentioned uh in passing but we we uh members of the public are interested to know in as uh was mentioned before what is the um part that's being sought out for a grant and I'm sure there they're on their way they should be coming uh as well as the if there is a portion that uh the taxpayers and the citizens of PBO can have to pay um into it um it is a public space so we all need [Music] to put our part in it um I don't know if I'm losing everybody's attention but I think it's important to to hear members of the public again my other concern is uh again I also am a Catholic like uh members of the some members of the council I do believe that the sensibility of people who Worship in all uh our city should be always taken uh in consideration first I believe that some type of compromise should be made maybe not moving it and as someone said change the hours maybe putting that um first um barrier plus the uh uh Shrubbery uh anything and everything that needs to be put in there but it should be in conversations with the parties that are affected that's for sure nobody should be marginalized secondly I don't believe that it would be in the best interest of the public to have lockers in a public space where possible danger could come in at any time um with those lockers I understand that some people want to log some stuff to the park but the park should not be a storage place we have bike racks already that sometimes um our bikes are there for enormous uh periods of time but I believe that and I'm sorry but I believe that to be a danger um to us all um also uh in regards to the Dolphins again it is important that they remain somewhere in the park I don't know if they could be active again but um they are very important they are iconic if not historic um again you see me as an old man here but I remember playing within them among them so um there are many things again if you could let us know why also the bathroom are changed all the way to the to that edge um being that it is a again uh a very um student access Park is I know I live on Park Avenue and all the students that come from Hudson uh school they are constantly on the move and play in that Park area so I don't know how the bathrooms on that area would be any effective uh as effective and there are you know again uh simple questions like that and again this is a vision so the vision could be changed I'm hoping or modified and made better uh if they if they could take into consideration uh the thoughts of the members of the public and if we could also have how many people did uh participate in the survey what was the the number as as to which which this final outcome that came out um actually this plan one and again just a little top off as I know my time is almost over I would like to also mention the basketball courts that it is important to to maintain um some stability because um a lot of members of our community play in that Park from all over Hoboken as well as tournaments to come it is it is a summer is a summer um interest that's there that is important to to maintain and keep it of course it's going to be there but we need to keep it and make it better and safer um for all participants there so these are question and some you know just opinions so if you could Pine on any of them I would appreciate it and um again council president I appreciate it and all members of the public and I wish more who come M and Council uh president this is for you is this being voted on on tonight on uh consent agenda or is this a I'll repeat um I we'll go over that again there's one contract on the agenda whether or not that gets pulled for discussion I'm not sure if it's not ped then it would be on consent thank you sure and thank you for the presentation just one second um do you want to follow on any of those questions raised here in terms of why the bathroom so one of the things that we found with existing restroom facility in the center of Park is it cuts off visibility so from a safety perspective perception it's not a great location I know it's Central it's in the middle but uh it's also uh not easily patrolled so by moving it to the corner uh it's much easier to to to see that you know if you're patrolling from a safety perspective uh then it opens up the middle of the park the Gazebo is a structure but it's it's transparent so um that was the reason and how many survey respondents oh the number of responses um survey 1 1,28 survey 2 426 thank you very much sorry thank you Miss waiters for your patience yeah this is for you Council assistant council president Michael Russo you asked earlier about when you asked him about um how many people these are just a few good and these are your people from church towers and your ward good morning Patricia they left their emils or whatever Pat I hope all is well today I was I wasn't going to the meeting but this is going to be my first meeting first day going to a meeting to a council meeting to discuss the redesign from the church Square Park issue blah blah blah then he put specifically the Gary White uh courts and I'm very Under Fire about this and under the weather but I stumbled and I tried here's the two post he put to link on okay I gave it to Jerry he put two links to click on and when you click on the Instagram one in big letters it said will the proposed changes to Church Square Park affect the legacy of Gary White courts in the church okay so this is what I'm saying to to each and every one of you again please listen and listen clearly I don't need none of you to dictate who Pat waiters is and what she do I advocate in my community a proud Advocate whether I'm recognized on your outgoing Mr defusco or not I had the pleasure of working with you first a real true politician I got to give you that at the end a little you lost a little respect cuz Tony sorz is my boy however I'm going to give credit when credit is due I miss you I have one told you run again cuz that's what we need more of all the other fake Shenanigans I don't care I care about this my phone is blowing up and when people tell me Pat get down here it doesn't seem right it seem biased who could even think twice to touch that basketball court and he got on here Gary Gary White's whole Legacy from coaching our kids when they was babies are the longest ever serving coach running up and down that same field that you getting ready to to just chop down with a known disregard to his family that still lived here and yes we lived here since the 60s y'all stop standing up here talking about 10 20 30 years we lived here all of our life and to come in somebody's Circle and reconstruct where we was born and raised all in the name of money and greed cuz you don't care about our feelings so it got to be the money this is huge I was there when y'all honored him and then you take it away you know how disingenuine this look do you know I don't come at these meetings all the time to attack y'all but please somebody do what's right so I could keep my big mouth to myself and sit down and watch the meeting like everybody else this is not right guys and stop taking a grossly known disregard that's the perfect word cuz I'd spoke with Father Sor about the baring dogs and the next day I was anti-dog I love dogs I love puppies I'll get a kettle and put in my house for them to make the noise but don't do that when we raise our concerns and we live here when you run for office your soul Duty you take under the authority of the people and I'mma be in here when y'all get sworn in and then turn around and then don't do that please put the people first stop it with these deadline dates you got to meet to get the grant I'll start asking for an extension for y'all if it's that serious step back relax and try not to hurt anybody everybody can always succeed but try to at least take stuff like this into consideration especially his untimely death we thought Gary was going to live another 50 years but this is sad nobody even put do in it or nothing and the homelessness too in that church Square Park did anybody got a plan for that he talking about lockers and stuff like that it's going to be a breathing space for homeless people start sleeping in lockers putting they some big bags they pull around they can put it in the locker put some more bench you took the benches put some cops down there what's next see nobody not thinking we meeting a deadline date and thinking about money again guys please I don't have to go no further and by mik go away for four years but come back promise US that thank you Mary and dra yeah having fun yet okay um Mary Andrea uh I've been here a long time and I've fought for that park for many many years for various reasons as you know I've opened my big mouth here going way back to when you first uh filmed these meetings in uh July was March of 2007 um first of all I read the article I did participate in the survey I participated in the uh actual physical Park where I don't know who I talked to I think I saw you you saw me we spoke we did speak sorry I don't remember your name because I didn't ask it um anyway um the problem with the park has always been everyone tried to cram too many things in it now I've been here when there wasn't a dog park and I really liked the park then sure I like dogs I'm not a dog hater but the problem with the dog park it's grown it's grown exponentially and the way you can get around this moving it is a good idea but the way you can get around it is to make it smaller it is a very unruly place and it's loud and it's just eating up too much of the real estate everybody doesn't own a dog dog so everybody needs to be fair about this and share I uh don't like the idea of them adding any AstroTurf any more than there is because I fought that with geoo or not geoo your guy before you took him uh replaced him gii uh I mean how unnatural is AstroTurf in a park but that's a whole another story everybody pushes it you're fake push you're fake people with Greenery now the price there's seven phases according to the paper the first phase is $850,000 that's just for the first phase so we're looking at a couple of million here uh we better not be paying that uh you going to get grants for a couple of million doubt it but you may start trimming this down a bit now I have seen so much bastardization of this park there used to be flowers around the Gazebo taken out there used to be shrubs along the walkway from 5ifth to sixth straight cuz used to go through there gone one day I have seen so much removed in that park because the city I think doesn't want to maintain it so great you want to do all these wonderful things with plants and flowers and trees is the city going to maintain it no also I object profoundly profoundly for a toilet on the corner of the street I go in the park all the time which happens to be on Fifth across from morans at fifth at the entrance now I say this strategically because that particular area is is an entryway and exit way from the back of town to the train station where all the people that got so drunk on Friday night Saturday night come filtering back to go to Washington you don't want the toilet visible if you live in this town you know there's a toilet in the center you use it you don't have every Tom Dick and Harry using that toilet you are going to unbalance the park make it look like hell and it's going to stink and you're going to have homeless drug addicts whoever you want using that toilet trust me on this one I have lived here 35 years oh I've seen the degreg the the removal of so many things in that Park I'm stunned why are you people doing this again I know I see I have time but I want want to say one last thing I was confused about removing the center sidewalk okay that is a sidewalk that goes up to the Marone Marone uh Monument I'm assuming you're going to keep that Monument surprise surprise okay putting a curtain up for the basketball cour who are we joking here you have to have lived in this town to understand the gradual problems in changes that have occurred in this town with that Park you can't put everything in that and as far as the dog park move it over to where the AstroTurf is where you have the damn uh toilet put it there because number one and make it smaller so you take off a few hundred yards whatever it was they'll survives and they'll have everything fine with that if you could just wrap up your comments all right thank you much I think that's it just um make sure this doesn't cost millions of dollars thank thank you kthy rounds yes um hi uh so I've been a Hoboken resident for 33 years I was born at the hospital adjacent to the park so I'm I've been you know I grew up in the park and I played on the playground so I'm very very familiar with it basically the issue I have is that unlike previous uh projects which simply renovated this park this park is basically an up upheaval which would change the character of the park entirely it would not be improving the park it would be desecrating it people should be seeking to preserve it not drastically modify it this is the wrong direction for the park and um one of the things that kind of bother me is the uh they want to get rid of the bushes on the northe I think the Northeast and Southeast parts of the park and get rid of the walkway along that they want to expand the astr turf onto that and I think that's a bad idea because you're basically getting rid of a real plant and replacing it with a fake plant which is basically just this you know AstroTurf is bad for the environment it's it has no benefit to Wildlife whatsoever it's just AstroTurf is bad and you know it shouldn't even be there in the first place um so I'm also wondering why there's a vote on a on a resolution or whatever later today even though there's public comments today like that should be in a separate meeting I don't know why that's happening in the same meeting as the comments um and I will also say that like it's almost like this park is being put in the hands of a company not the community and there's the appearance of community input but the thing is it's it's kind of insufficient ultimately control will remain with arterial um so I think that's wrong um the community should be determining what happens to this spark not a company I'm doubtful that the community impact has had any effect that you know it's probably had some impact but it seems kind of superficial um and it seems almost like arterial is making the public play by their rules and forcing that and forcing the public to choose their own designs and not allowing for any alternative there has been some Community input to an extent but I don't think there's been enough and um I think a major overhaul to the park is not necessary it'll do more more harm than good um there's a very high chance something will go wrong tur score Park does not need a large plan to control every aspect of the park the whole philosophy behind what AR arterial is trying to do is wrong um the whole idea of active versus passive that's framing it the wrong way I think you should view it to is synthetic versus natural and framing it as just PA passive is kind of attaches kind of a negativity to that um I also think the plan would cause the unique and historic character of the park to be lost sometimes attempting to improve something makes it worse this project would probably sterilize the park and turn it into a boring predictable controlled closely managed product the character it has had for decades would probably probably be lost it's not a perfect Park but what they want to do to the park will make it worse and also the vision plan seeks to increase the amount of synthetic stuff and decrease the amount of natural stuff um that shouldn't be happening um I don't really get the sense it's an ecolog ecologically sound uh proposal the park doesn't have enough Green Space and I think this plan would make it worse um they want to to eliminate some of the on a second so basically like one of the things that could happen is they could remove one of the basketball courts and and replace it with gr you know trees or grass they could do that that's not happening um all the current fields in the park with grass and trees should remain the way they are including the Southwest field the Southwest field has beautiful yellow leaves in the in the uh fall that that should be left there um the field that's immediately to the southwest of the Gazebo that is supposed to be a picnic Grove but but there used to be a memorial to a person that passed away in the northeast of the Gazebo that was moved over to what is now the picnic Grove and the memorial has been like not there anymore but the plaque where it was is still there you can still sort of see it so that I don't know what what's going with that I don't think that should be disturbed until the memorial uh in that area is established again or if it isn't but I just don't know the status of it and also this plan will probably cause lots of trees to get cut down I mean the main issue I have is that the Southwest field that they want to turn into like a play area that would be ruined and that's a really good area I don't think that should be modified I don't think the Eastern pathway along the between the two basketball courts should be gotten rid of I don't think the utility building should be torn down I don't think there should be as Turf I don't think the bushes should be torn down if you could just wrap up your comments please thank you very much so basically I just think that the whole this whole project is just got so many flaws and so many problems so I'm just going to ask the council to just please reject this this project reject the resolutions just don't fund it it's just it got so many issues I mean I could go on and on but that's all I'm going to say thank you uo Gonzalez hi good evening uh I just had three simple questions um the first one is the sidewalk on Garden is that staying the same length uh it's not getting affected with no okay with with sorry yeah not length yes uh the only reason I asked is because we have the farmers market there in the uh summer um the second question is you mentioned the religious stakeholders that you spoke to um which schools did you speak to you mentioned All Saints but I was curious what the other ones were and it just asked the third question sure go ahead uh the third question is one that still hasn't been answered that several people asked which is what is the all-in cost for the project for all the phases uh I know they again there'll be grant funding but still at the end of the day what is the all-in cost for all the phases thank you that was it so I'll uh I'll just list out the schools that we spoke with yeah I got uh Hoboken private charter school I don't know if there's a specific name to that one the broad just Representatives right that's a few schools yeah so so yeah sorry I yeah you can goad I'm not no that's okay uh we spoke with the public schools uh several private Charter Schools including All Saints Mustard Seed Ola Hudson School Stevens um as well as public library and several other stakeholders oh uh yes so we are working on costs for All Phases um because the phase that you're voting on tonight is um the design sorry design engineering of the phase that you're voting on tonight which is Phase One um is most important of course because of the vote tonight uh we have presented that as $850,000 and to be clear the grant that we are applying for is $750,000 and we have already secured a grant in the amount of $85,000 uh for that project so um we are looking at almost the total project costs being funded by that Grant um we will come back uh with costs for later phases as those are not as far along in development thank you mat Matthew bwin hi folks uh Matt bden appreciate the opportunity um I live on the park 259 Fourth Street uh we take our kids there our dogs there we enjoy the green space and in general I support making improvements however I agree with I think it was councilman Russo the Nate it feels like some more consideration would be useful I don't have any questions but I would like to offer some points for consideration one on the church noise the complaints about the noise from the dog park are questionable at best there is certainly noise but the church is adjacent to an emergency room and busy Willow Street sir if you could just step up to the mic that way it carries through to the feed so people can hear you thank you sorry to interrupt thank you no no you're good please don't I project it just makes it easier to hear you um on the church noise uh there is a lot there is noise from the dog park dogs bark right um there's an emergency room there there are Sirens there are police activity there's also Willow Street there's a ton of traffic I I got the petition I didn't sign it I don't think there's a whole lot of ground there again a point of consideration I don't know that it necessarily changes the plan um on the best practice of pushing the activities to the perimeter of the park that may be best practice but it also puts the noisiest activities closest to the most residential areas seems like another area for a rethink in addition there's some really nice old trees that I don't think we'd like to see Disturbed regarding the cost uh the onetime cost whatever that might be I think could cross that bridge but my question is more around the maintenance and the ongoing support including police support it is not great today it has improved of late after complaints several I will own up to but there's a lot of homelessness there is drinking there is drug use and at times I've complained and I've been told that there's not so much that can be done because it will not be prosecuted that very may very well be the case it's not an excuse for Action I do not want to build a new park spend millions of dollars no doubt and let it to rot not that this has gotten to that state but there's been significant degradation especially in the early part of this year I appreciate the time thanks for the consideration thank you James trarco evening Council good evening Council uh I watched the whole presentation you know I have to start like by laughing and I'm listening to the public so we have a school teacher that teaches across the street and the the presentation talks nothing about how much those kids use the park I I've seen that for years it's unbelievable how much they use it as a resource and it was it was toned deaf today then councilman Russo comes in and says that all the constituents and all the the years of complaints this plan was toned deaf to that and then the basketball courts this plan was was toned deaf to that right from the beginning and I could see what this is this is northwest park again it's going to be Bleak it's going to be cold it's going to have no personality because I don't know why but that's where it's going forget about helping the helping the homeless the word wasn't used tonight why because you can have all these anti-homeless things in there you can't lay on the bench anymore you know what yeah it's coming with no help to those people all right I can give you my thoughts on this park uh the maintenance for the last 10 years of this park has been subpar okay and I'm taking the gloves off because I feel like it's another disingenuous Park presentation lots of Consultants boondoggle for bonding okay W dog whistles to the unions and and this park if it was tweaked here and there over the last 10 years if the gravel was swept off the sidewalk and the dog run had minor little things edited and plants were planted and there was water we've had a we had a leak for 10 years on on the on the sprinkler and now I'm supposed to say I'm supposed to hear oh once we get a whole new park it's all going to be great I mean it's La it's laughable it's laughable so if you are going to redesign the park uh uh the thing is with this park is that it's it's an old-fashioned design yeah that's beautiful if you want to since space since space is such a up at a premium here why do we need nine entrances to the park why don't we erase two entrances on choose two corners we got lots of places why does the sidewalk around the outsides have to stay so wide take them in a foot and a half 2 feet I want to see bushes all around the park I want to see different plantings I want to see I don't want one tree removed and let's get that petition started who likes to do oh oh really really okay not one tree removed I'll tell you when you remove a tree when it basically splits in two and dies okay that's when you remove a tree well it's going to look old you know what what about about there some of us in here okay so so the thing is is that when that tree dies yeah you you you you you the city buys a stump grinder and you grind the tree out and that's it you put a new tree in the next day so all this pre-planning for trees that are too old I mean this is this plan this park if it looks like all these other Parks I just I I say goodbye to it because it's it's losing all the character of of anything there and you you're looking it's also a way to just erase history you know you want to erase the tree that the grandmother saw that that that you know people walked by from years ago so it's it's you know it's match set point of the same thing that I've seen happen to four or five other Parks thank you thank you okay there are no more members of the public sign up to speak for this hearing so I'm going to move to close the public hearing MO to close the hearing all in favor okay moving on to the agenda um I wantes um just housekeeping removed and been carried you can it was not provided which was you want to address why that was removed we didn't receive a proposal that was um uh in line with the city's ordinance so we uh spoke with the vendor who's making adjustments and we will bring It Forward either at the first meeting in 20124 or in worst case scenario we'll call a special meeting over Zoom to try to adopt it before the end of the year what's the urgency it's our stop-loss coverage so it's like our reinsurance for all of our medical coverage is this through Fair viiew it is through Fairview and Alamo it's a subcontractor and who council president if I can I I have a major concern about not having a vote tonight on our stop loss and I don't know if we should go into a Clos session to discuss that because it's a um I guess it's a negotiation issue so yeah I I think it's I think it's vital that we do that because it could result in a half million to a million dollars worth of cost to the city what would we voting on well it's my understanding that the city has received um a proposal is that right director yes that was rejected and we sent it back to them and told them it was not in line with the city's ordinance it was reject the The Proposal was rejected we told them that the proposal that was sent over um included what is considered commissions to the broker which are not allowed under our city ordinance so we had asked them to revise the proposal to remove the commissions that were in the initial proposal so let me understand for the this is the same broker and the same stop-loss carrier that we've used in the past correct five years correct for how many years uh probably for the last four to be certain so four five so for for four years the way that contract has been presented to the city of hobok and has been fined but now in the fifth year it's not fined who was watching the store over the last four years to make sure that we were in compliance The Proposal every single year is different that's why we have to get a new one and this one did not meet the city's requirements as it pertains to the ordinance we've asked them to revise it I spoke with the vendor both Fairview and Alamo today they've agreed to send us a new proposal and when we have that the city council will vote on it and are you aware of what the outcome may be if in fact it's delayed uh I was told that we would have the premium pricing would be the same that's not true you were told that the premium pricing would be the same and again I don't I don't want to discuss a lot of things in public president I was going to say if you're going to go down this road I would rather that you do this either offline separately or we can have a closed session at the end of this meeting but I do want to move on yeah I I think we should have a close session if if everyone's in agreement with that then I don't have a problem with that but if if they're not then I think we need to address some things because that's a half a million to a million dollars in additional spending if in fact we lose the opportunity I have no idea where that number came from it feels like something you just kind of made up I'm more than happy to discuss it Mr finina let's move on with second reading pleasing on an ordinance supplementing the definitions of chapter 42 historic preservation are there any members of the public signed up to speak uh yes h Mr ammed any any ahed Hoboken thank you council president uh want to start off with a a memo that I got today uh from Hoboken zoning officer didn't get a long chance to read it but it was on today so let's start off by let's talk about what a public public RightWay is and in this memo they went to Great Lengths to tell you what a public RightWay is they had to go to uh the township of Agoda Guttenberg Township of ocean uh and the township of Rockaway so I read them and I'll read some real quick to you any Street or Avenue Boulevard Highway sidewalk or Alleyway or similar place which is owned and controlled by the government entity that's Guttenberg means the area on below or above Public Road roadway Highway Street public sidewalk alley Waterway or utility easement of which a Township of ocean has an interest that's from Ocean Township any Street Avenue or Boulevard Road Highway sidewalk alley or easement that is owned leased or controlled by a government entity that's the township or walkway these aren't my examples these are the examples you got cited I just happen to look at Jersey City's definition Union City we Hawking they all mean the same thing it's a roadway it's a roadway or a sidewalk you had this great presentation of a park you are referring to public right of way now magically in one part of your book as meaning something and another part of the book meaning something else that's not how definitions work Mr Doyle will tell you that him and I go back and forth on definitions if you have a definition in your book it means what it means it R1 doesn't mean something in Chapter 2 and in chapter 8 R1 means something else the second you define public roadway or a rideway you've defined it so you know the nuisance that you get in the Summer with the motorcycle guys and the three- wheel bikes and all that stuff that people come here and and complain to you about on ends you're going to allow them in your park because it's the public right away now you you want to redefine it that's not what it means Hoboken has a definition and here's a shocker and you've been here in 2003 you got your entire master plan redone 2010 re-exam 2017 another re-exam in 40 years you've never had to Define it differently in public right of way magically a dozen homes on Castle points get redone floors added to them extensions added never had to Define it I put an application in you got a you got to find a new definition for 40 years you didn't need a definition now you need a definition isn't that amazing just this one time it just happens to be coincidental and I happen to be suing the city at the same time but that's all just coincidental right if you step on this landmine where you define something differently just because of one person it changes things for many people in here you have public right of way now that just letting people know on garden and Bloomfield if you're on the east side of the street you're good if you're on the west side of the street your house is worth less money because if you could see from pison Plank Road the back of that house now the back of the house is historic your neighbor's house across the street is not historic and these are the unintended consequences when you write definitions targeted for one person the zoning board and the planning board go through nauseum through the entire year they issue guys a report and say we had 15 applications this year of all these same things so perhaps you should change that zoning ordinance and that's what you do I've never seen it come for one application the historic board has till April 30th to give you the recommendations where's the emergency the sudden emergency you have an application in this is the time we have to change it this isn't well thought out and and me and Mr Cohen sorry councilman Cohen we went over a definition in a hallway two weeks ago and I didn't have it on hand and a definition we were struggling with was sidewalk so in your code it says elsewhere excuse me I read it the public right of way is not expressly defined within the section of City's code but the code elsewhere in the book readily and appropriately limits the right away to roads and sidewalks adjacent to them we had a debate what sidewalk meant so I had to look it up and I found it in your book you actually have a definition a sidewalk is the portion of the street whether paved or unpaved between the curb lines or the lateral line of a roadway and the adjacent property lines intended for the use of pedestrians where it is not clear which section is intended for the use of The Pedestrian the sidewalk will mean will be deemed to be the sorry the portion of the Street between the building and the curb line we know what a sidewalk is now because what we were debating is is a sidewalk in a park it's not that's a pathway there's a difference pierc is a pathway a sidewalk is adjacent to a building and a property line and we know what it is so we shouldn't pretend that we don't know what it is I I urge you not to act in haste I urge you to to talk and and if you've named five townships and I read the definition tonight you know what all five could just wrap up your comments Mr red thank you I'm on both of them that's okay none of them said Park all the definitions that I read to you out loud here of what a public right of ways not a single one said the word park so Hoboken wants to be the first city in the entire state of New Jersey to now Define Park as a public RightWay that is bad that is bad for the consat that's bad for the city that's bad for the homeowners this is not being well thought out I think this ordinance I think you need to go back to the pl to the to the drawing board and you should not write an ordinance because you don't like the applicant that's before for you thank you thank you Manny Rivera good evening council president bu noes I also um am a little baffled by um this ordinance which by the way council president I appreciate um you letting me know at least how to go about uh getting the information the proper way uh but again as was mentioned before by the previous um speaker the definitions um both on B 607 and b608 which I'm going to speak for both because why would I want to get up twice uh so the public right way as uh it is are you as establishing and are you eliminating every other um loophole or any other place where in our huge City uh ordinances and codes um this will supersede everything and it will be the final word and if that is correct are each and every one of you clear have you pardon me are you aware of the changes and as was mentioned because this is were was brought up when a person applied for for um some kind of a uh leave uh it's hard to not take it personal that person because it is it it is basically the same thing in both ordinances with perhaps I don't know I was once in a planning board meeting where they this is quotes where they make the sausage as they say um and even they had doubts or or were trying to Define it you know with a specific way that it doesn't have loopholes so my question to you council president and Council when you vote for these two ordinances because you don't have to call me back up for B 608 um I'm going to start Rel relinquishing some of my time uh so just let members of the public know if you are aware of this change being the correct one both as was mentioned before by the prior speaker which is the public right away do we know exactly what are going to be those definitions of public right away is it going to be underneath a Windows Bay if it's protruding will now underneath that public that uh Windows Bay would that be a public right away uh uh simple things like this I'm just I'm just asking because of course I'm not the most knowledgeable one but I do sit and read I do sit through the countless hours of the meetings I just want to know if you can let members of the public know that you are not as fortunate as I am to be able to be at all the meetings if you could explain it to them council president or any one of you I'm sure um they would appreciate it and when you vote on this or if you're going to table it or if you going to do something to make sure that that that what I just mentioned is is correct or incorrect please let members of the public no because this is going to change as uh as was said and could bring lawsuits to the city that we don't need thank you for listening and we appreciate your answer thank you thank you John K there it's not he just walked through can you say it again what's the name again John John Curran I don't think he's here miss waiters waiters I'm sorry I'm trying to clarify one thing guys when I came in five minutes after Manny I resigned again under the impression that Manny signed so you see he forgot about me but thank you anyway I signed anyway I want to I just want to put a few things I'm I'm speaking on this um December 5th 7 4 and November 16th reason being I just got the chill sitting here I didn't believe e- 607 and E is it 608 Manny e608 Manny and I attend that meeting right and I did and I stressed this because it was right before an election and all the little crazy stuff going so I didn't expect no answer I asked nicely and simply and this is what I brought to the zoning on the planet board that night I said why do you take and change the whole definition to make it personal for one applicant that you want revenge on and that's my what I took from the meeting that night I put it in detail I spoke to them and I asked for a definition of the public right away I feel kind of betrayed now I stand here today they created the election is done they created a definition to still impact and hurt this person not just them I don't want to give names but it's a couple that come in here too that also had the fight the city to try to come and bring their Catabus uh business here or somebody got to fight you guys and you be mistreated by this body as a whole so when you vote I told you no matter what Ward you running for you your vote still count where it impacts us as an entire city and we know this whether you win in the fifth the fourth the second or whatever but for you to know that one of you guys in that decision when you make a vote have a vendetta against somebody and maliciously go as low as changing the language I'm so S I have never dealt with so many crooked attorneys and if it ain't you don't wait till the meeting over and go write about me on Facebook tell me why I'm here cuz if the shoe fit put it on and I'm saying again I have never dealt with so many unethical attorneys and say well we changed the language we're not doing anything wrong we just a little unethical but we not breaking the law you doing both it's a disgrace that a a developer got to come here maybe because he's a clean developer maybe cuz he don't want to cut crooked back door deals like one of our Mayors did that didn't even sit in the seat good enough we know development is a harsh thing in this city at least come on y'all to sit up here this is called targeting at its best to change the language to distinctly hurt somebody from building and right across the street somebody could come in here tomorrow and they'll that language account for them I want to read this into the record to make sure I'm seeing things and this ain't true and you get ready to sit up here and vote on it and these are my words to them I said are you changing the definition from the public right away from meaning a roadway you can drive on to to a new definition where they said the public right away is any area you can see from a park okay so we talked about Parks tonight right in the bathroom right on the corner do I got the right away as a bum to just come and sit there and go and handle my business so just to hurt somebody one individual person to to and I'm serious so when we vote tonight I want you to vote with your conscience and think about what that young man stood here and spoke about and everybody don't go to these meetings and hearings Manny and I attend every meeting so it's kind of disappointing when we go to the plan in is zon and meeting they don't care cuz guess what they do in your lap they know it gotta come to this government body here tonight and I'mma see tonight is you guys going to do the right thing cuz those board and positions that you appoint people to that's another thing guys when we sit up here and we apply for those zoning and planning boards you know those are your buddies and if you got the vote they get the seat let's do what's right please thank you thank you there are no more members of the public signed up to speak on this ordinance motion to close public portion all in favor I I have a feeling councilman Doyle do you want to talk about I think we talked about this at the last time but in terms of the planning board findings and yeah perhaps address some of the concerns there's been an awful lot um the nothing has changed we're creating a definition that does not already exist so it's not it says X and it's being changed to Y it is it says nothing and there is lack a lack of certainty and so now we are creating a definition so we could create a definition to Manny's point or maybe to Mr amed's point we can Define it however we want to Define it as a matter of governmental body an ordinance was introduced it's the identical definition one would be in the historic preservation portion of our code and one is in the zoning and it's the same exact definition BEC because we the desire is to have them be the same so they would not be treated differently over here versus there if you're at the planning board versus the historic preservation so and the historic preservation commission has already in the absence of any definition they have already said we interpret the historic preservation code to mean places that can be seen from a public sidewalk right of way and and that that that that interpretation of a of a not clear language is being challenged saying we I don't think that that's what it means and so there's nothing unethical with defining something if certainly unless if it's true as many as a number of people are have indicated that they believe that this is for retaliation because you know for whatever reason or if it were discriminatory there could be reasons where it would be wrong to create a definition but virtually all of our amendments to ordinances are changes that we make when an issue comes up some sometimes times it's an unforeseen circumstance oh when we defined uh whatever we didn't think that it might impact something else so now we have to fix it and there's nothing wrong with fixing something now here the the question was there is uncertainty as to what the historic preservation code means means so let's create a definition so there won't be uncertainty and and this body here can vote it down if we don't like the definition been created or we can vote it in if we like the definition and if if if Mr Amed has already got an application before the board there are things that protect him in that regard notwithstanding the fact that so it's not here that that we're changing something so that he could do it before and he won't be able to do it now it is a proposed changed to clarify what it means and we we have the power to decide whether we like this definition or not and but to say you know roadway and sidewalk and I mean clearly a sidewalk is not a place where automobiles can drive so when you talk about a roadway and a sidewalk in the same definition these are in other towns no one's saying well if we if you say roadway and sidewalk they're both the same and you can drive motorcycles down side walks that's ridiculous it means there are many different things and whether the whether in the park where there's a paved walkway in the park that the public can walk on whether you define that as a sidewalk or a walkway or a trail or there's many ways you can do it but in in this definition which is before us it is including a sidewalk in a park and not limiting the side walk to only a sidewalk that is adjacent to a street and what we may we may decide we don't like that definition we may decide that that we do like it but there's nothing nefarious and so that's where the planning board was saying we're not they're not changing anything here it's just it's the what was a the planning board was asked to consider was do you is this definition consistent with planning in town and the determination was yes it you know a public walkway excuse me you yes that's the same thing it has not changed and it's it's two places all Miss waiters we miss waiters if you could just hold your comments we would appreciate it thank you yes it's the same it has not changed from what was proposed went to the planning board it's back here now for second reading doesn't understand Council Cohen did you want to make some comments All right so I sorry Jim did you have addition I'm I'm just trying to help sure thank you council president so we discussed this in community development meeting yesterday uh one thing you know the Spectre of litigation is being raised here if there is no definition of right of way in the code and that means there's ambiguity as to what is a right of way which invites litigation for people to make arguments just like Mr Ahmed made tonight that you know the interpretation is not being Guided by a rule but it's by people's feelings about the applicant that kind of thing here we have a rule that was introduced uh that is similar Mr R had actually read other communities that have defined right of way the same as this the point of this ordinance is to say that it is the point of the historic preservation committee to take a look at structures that are visible to the community and determine whether they can be destroyed or altered in a way that preserves their historic significance so they can make recommendations they don't have the power to prevent a project from going forward they can make recommendations as to whether something can be torn down or altered in a way that is compromising the historic uh Integrity of this pursuant to their rules and it makes sense that this definition would include a park because you could have historic facades surrounding a park that lend historic Ambiance or historic charm to the park to the community and it would make sense that the public would be able to enjoy that Park uh and and in the memo it says the primary purpose of historic preservation is to maintain for the public good buildings architecture features and landmarks within the historic districts and to preserve the overall character of The Districts so to me whether there is a road that goes completely through or not is not the key issue here the key question is is the public in a position to enjoy that historic facade as part of their right of way to a public space uh so this definition is consistent with what other communities use and it is done in a way that would be consistent now it certainly any anything that the city Council does could be subject to Legal challenge but again I think that it is a bigger risk not to have a clear standard with respect to right way and that is what the the this definition aims to solve thank you president Fisher yeah so um I think the issue to me is um theoretically I don't I don't disagree with it would be great to have a definition of maybe a more clear definition of um public right away but it was never uh you know the the planning board was never provided with examples of what best practices are um I similarly looked up a half a dozen um RightWay definitions in kind of this area and didn't find one for example that referenced a park at all so I went to the planning board the night that um Miss waiters and and Manny were there where they discussed it the public was not allowed to engage on it because it was just a review of an ordinance and you know they were the planning board was given no information other than the ordinance itself so it just became kind of this speculative do we like the definition does it seem okay um and there was one um planning board member who said this begs a lot of question it's a it's an incomplete definition right and and Manny um mentioned some of the questions that were raised that night and you know the conclusion was basically well you know we'll address that at a later date and like this is one of those things like when you think about the potential implications you know across the city of of what just making a change like this to our definition could be it it impacts potential people's home values it impacts you know uh if someone has a home that was never subject to Historic preservation wasn't considered historic before now suddenly maybe it is you know is is going to be considered historic and has certain restrictions that it didn't have before like and and that may be something that we want to do but we've not been given any information about that right we have 60,000 people we have 30,000 homes you know in Hoboken we have a zillion parks and now we're making a major change a major change to the definition of our RightWay without any analysis of of what it impacts but we do know one house that it impacts Mr Ahmed bought a house that's on allean Park and came before historic preservation and one side of his house faces the park this is all about that so we know exactly how it's going to impact one which is it's going to stop him from making changes or imp his ability to make changes that whether whether the planning board or whoever ultimately approves it is different but we don't know what the impact is going to be on every other house in the city and and we should do that like this is a major change and so far what has been presented and what we've some of us have looked at is this definition actually is not consistent with other definitions specifically because of the reference to park so maybe what we should do is go back and just say okay let's look at 30 different definitions that reference parks and I do want to clarify um and and figure out what the best practices is and have a planner say if we need to do this this is what the implications are going to be you know across the city these are the homes it's going to impact and then we have a legal analysis on whether or not we have to notice them right we have to notice people that this is going to change it's a effectively maybe can be construed as a change in zoning like there's a process here not just changing a material definition because one person's sitting in the corner and making that change and not providing information to a planning board enough information to make it and to be honest and I think about it it wasn't only a planner that asked the question but it was also it wasn't only a planning board member that asked the question it was the planner asked some questions like this this begs questions and it doesn't mean we shouldn't do it but let's just do it the right way like let's go back let's do some of this and you know let's come back in the first quarter and say this is what it should be and maybe it means we have to make other changes um throughout the uh throughout our our zoning and one thing I do want to um comment on because we've had a debate between ourselves um I'm going to read this again for clarity and this is something that U Mr ammed raised our de our definition in the Hoboken ecode if you go online our definition not another city for sidewalk the portion of the street whether paved or unpaved between the curb lines of the lateral line of a roadway and the adjacent property lines intended for the use of pedestrians where it is not clear which section is intended for the use of pedestrians the sidewalk will be deemed to be the portion of the Street between the building line and the curb so that we have a definition of sidewalk in here right the historic preservation if they want to interpret sidewalk in their own own way because they just want to be restrictive to a house on a park we actually have a definition of sidewalk that they should adhere to so there's no ambiguity here so I just think that listen there's so many moving parts around this that we should if this is really that important and that significant there's no sense of urgency this is on our own time we should take the right amount of time to do this the right way for once right like there's no there's no gun to our head there's nothing urgent about this to put this through tonight and I hope everyone here just says let's just give it a relook in the New Year councilman council president there's there's so much to impact here but and I and I'm I I just think we should vote it up or down but the the fact of the matter councilwoman Fischer is your definition of sidewalk is irrelevant because the question is what's the definition of right of way it's not what's the definition definition of a sidewalk so I think and when you talk about the planning board hearing the consistency review is to review whether it's consistent with the master plan or the land use element not Gutenberg or other cities around so when the planning board didn't say hey give us a survey of the of hundred other definitions in the state of right of way because that's not their job if the if the master plan said we think definitive that a right of way should be only for storm water then the consistency review would say this is inconsistent with the master plan but the master plan doesn't say that so and just to be fair the the member of the commission that asked the question asked the question of whether a private right of way is appropriate to be included and he he wasn't asking questions about should we include sidewalk or is it a walkway and a Park a sidewalk he was just asking sort of a formulaic can we consider a public right of way on privately owned land um and so and you said you know this could be dramatic in the sense yes it can be dramatic if you're on a corner but the issue is the structures the properties are either in historically designated or not changing this definition or creating I should say this definition will not magically take a house that is not a historic has jurisdiction of historic preservation and make it that it all all that this is doing is and and I think this is indisputable even with Mr Amed is generally speaking if you if you have a house in the middle of a block the only thing that you can see from walking by in the street is the front of the house not the back not the sides and so that that's the only thing that is considered by to to be within the jurisdiction of historic preservation but I think everyone would agree at least everyone with an opinion about this if you're on a corner so the front of the house is on on Park Avenue but the side of the house is on Fourth Street then you can see both of them so both Corners both two sides fall under historic preservation jurisdiction and so here it is unusual because that corner is facing into a park not facing onto a road with automobile traffic and so query and and the historic preservation said that counts you if you're in a park you're in a public place and we can see it and we should preserve it that's all they said and they said that's how we interpret the code and then others said well there's no definition so they said okay then let's fix it and create a definition Miss so so there you have it I apologize for being so longwind counc counc thank you so much um I certainly appreciate the debate I thought I was going to have an easier meeting on my last meeting but I will just say that since since it is our jurisdiction make a motion to close we'll do whatever you want I mean Co definitely cocktails after this until we go to the HHA yes got to get to them it is up to this body to um codify a definition and the the zoning officer does in her note say but the code elsewhere readily and appropriately defines limits the right of way to roads and sidewalks adjacent to them that is my definition and I think it is if it's the majority of this body that defines it so broadly that it gives the zoning officer broad jurisdiction and takes it out of the hands of this Council that's a decision it's my thought it's my thinking it's a more traditionalist thinking that the right of way is limited to roads and sidewalks adjacent to them so I I appreciate you hearing my thoughts thank you right Mr fro please call the vote Mr con I FCO no Mr dorl I M fiser no notino no Theo I Mr Ramos no Mr Russo no president Jabor yes ordin uh fails adoption next hearing on an ordinance p68 an ordinance supplementing the definition chapter 196 zoning of the municipal code of the city of hoken since this is related I think most people have already can I assume that everybody who wanted to speak on b607 is call vote call vote no you're good or no you want to come up up and speak you're okay okay motion to close public portion wait wait wait got uh b608 they're related so I think yeah all right motion to close public portion motion all in favor any more good motion okay Mr fin please call the vote make sure everyone's okay with this Mr con I fko no Mr doy no because don't want him to be inconsistent Pino noo no Mr Ramos no Mr Russo no pres no it is moving on hearing on an ordinance adopting the Fabian Art District Redevelopment plan are members of the public seen signed up to speak on this ordinance uh Mary and dra okay Miss phallic they want to switch order good evening again Council I Rise to uh waste my breath and ask you to vote no on this a couple of things and despite the fact that I I know this is probably futile there is something that all of you might agree with and I've raised it before not necessarily here the 10% affordable is not a community benefit it is a requirement if we could stop presenting the 10% % poultry 10% affordable as a community benefit when it's just required under the ordinance going forward I would appreciate it because there is no Community benefit unless we go even taller when it comes to affordable housing um the other thing that I would say is I want to point out to the city council that you are beginning the massive upzoning of Washington Street with this uh Redevelopment to 10 stories or 16 if the developer does more and I know that the building apparently frontages on Observer highway but it is a corner that means that there will be 10 stories at the base of Washington Street and we just know over time every developer's heart's content is wishing and hoping that they can just go up norc first second you know on and on and upzone the whole town this is primary reason why I oppose this the other thing that I have is a question there is something about uh um an easement or something to do with the sewage Authority and a big fat pipe and some sort of indication I don't really know what I'm talking about but I think there's something in here that needs to be explored that suggests that this can only be a parking lot because of this pipe thing underneath it you can't build on it and until that is worked out with the developer this Redevelopment that we're approving presumably can't happen and I am just curious what we're talking about and I'm concerned because if there's some reason why we shouldn't be saying yes and letting somebody put a shovel in the ground if it has something to do with our infrastructure and our plumbing and our pipes we don't want to like give anybody the go-ahead I know that the minute everybody votes yes the land values just escalate exponentially from the five stories to the 10 or maybe 16 so that gives somebody a lot of motivation to put shovels in the ground where there might be some sort of infrastructure issue and I would appreciate it if somebody knows and if you don't know why don't you know what is going on with that thank you very much again I would waste my time and ask you all to vote this down thank you thank you uh Brian Mary is gonna go next oh Mary she just wanted to switch with Sheryl okay Mary andreco 1599 Street I have to agree with every with everything Cheryl is saying if you could just um the sound is better if you tip it towards you is that better it picks it up better thank you uh I I agree with everything Cheryl is saying I I was never sure of whether this development Zone included the property that used to be the Barnes & Noble that sometimes is a pop-up spirit store it includes that okay and it does include also the CVS okay um I I don't know the um what is to happen to that parking but I know that parking is been there ever since I've lived in this town so I didn't know about the issue underground but I hope that that would be before anybody signs seals and delivers anything that they look into that um and I also do not know how it affects the New Jersey transits development that's been ongoing for years and years and years because that is at that right catty corner from the Records building so I don't know how that's going to play in with the development of this site I know the Fabian Theater used to stand where the um I think the CVS is right there on the corner um everybody looks down the road as though this this is a grand idea once again a redevelop I mean a a uh a new zone for uh a district of a Redevelopment but it always seems to go ay and upzoning on Washington we have to remember they're going to upzone the um the Bank building uh the Capital One and that's was at the board yesterday which I forgot to go that I didn't get to get to that meeting the zoning board so that's a parking lot to and that's going to go up four five stories at least so that and whatever's on the roof so all of this is affect affects everything because there's a domino effect that once you go up because across the street I remember there was nothing there I don't even know what it is it's about a four-story unit I never see anybody going in or out on Observer highway right across the street from from there being on the bus going into work I would see it all the time I wondered what it's all about but constantly filling up every space cars and and parking I don't know who I remember communs used to pay for that parking spot to use so you're you're trying to make more development which creates more problems all along the road with more people with more traffic you can lower it 20 mph it doesn't make any difference people still get hit and killed it's just packing more people in the the district at the corner there where it's already a very crowded area um you know everybody has these fantasy ideas of making a district Fabian Arts District you know I wanted them to put the church the city if they really had their ass together at uh a nth and Bloomfield could have taken that church and made it a nice art center so you you wander properties and you want to build up on empty spaces to just sort of make over mistakes or something that you didn't even think of up zoning is very serious in this town it is creating so many problems you as a council do not seem to understand that or if you do you don't care so please I ask you that you not vote for this thank you thank you we have uh Brian P I can't make out I apologize I can't make out the last name hi everyone on behalf of this project I'd like to say closer to the microphone sir y on behalf of this project I'd like to say we're looking forward to bringing a wonderful residential development with some retail aspects while addressing some of the needs of Hoboken including an entertainment venue as well as a welcoming entrance through one of hoboken's Gateway entrances uh want to thank Mr Mayor Chris Brown and all his people that work with him the planning board the planning departments Mike defusco our first W councilman and thank you Council people and thank you all the residents of hobokin thank you thank you that's it I'm looking at Manny did you wish to speak on this Manuel Rivera Solair thank you council president I will be brief because uh we want to get to 13 the intent of this ordinance is very nice it feels good but what what I would like to know is of course it's Redevelopment for redevelopment I appreciate the gentleman's telling us that it's going to be a more Apartments more affordable housing and stuff like that but the affordable housing as was mentioned is always going to be 10% unless the developer wants to give more and it's just on their half if they decide but we can't ask but I go to many again as I say meetings and even last night I was asking a developer which Mary mentioned Mary andreco um Mary I would have given you tickets um it is proposed to be five stories to Capital Building so development in Hoboken is really going off the scales and off the rails if if I could use that phrase because even tonight which I will Skip One ordinance to get to the next one but you're changing even the corners of our streets making them taller and taller and taller pretty soon it's all going to be skyscrapers but I know that the planning board is well intend intentional I know that we all want the best but we have too much development planned and it's just even with all of it people cannot live here they're still not going to be able to afford it 10% is great not enough will they accept vouchers we don't know will the residents who are on house will they be able to afford it will seniors be able to live there it's great as Grand to here we're going to have a a uh facility for the Arts we all love the Arts we want it but it's hard to believe that we could maintain a theater and we're basing all of this on the Arts so I would like you to yes explain to members of the public their questions that were asked help the gentlemen to also give the people a sense of why does it have to be so high why must it be so massive why must every single piece of hobooken be developed and all at the same time thank you council president I back thank you EXC there are no more members of the public signed up to speak motion to close public portion all in favor I uh councilman Doyle do you want to talk about the planning board I'll just mention that the planning board did a review and found this to be consistent with the master plan um I think there was a a question that was asked about overlay District versus superseding but it was just a kind of a request for clarification um I would also point out to miss phallic that there is an easement it's a utility easement under it's like an L shape it comes from on the east side of the property over and then it goes down to Observer highway it's identified everyone knows it's there there's no mystery about it it's it's going to be part of an Alleyway that is planned between the two buildings the the the building a which is essentially on Washington Street on the uh you know the west side of this block and then down on Observer Building B is separate building and there's a walk through you know and the g Gallery space and so forth um and so it's not that it's a North Hudson sewage Authority easement and I believe that there is a a large pipe there and they're going to have to deal with it but it's not something that can't be engineered and for that matter the where this uh space between the buildings is is where the easan is so um yeah so that's that's that councilman defusco thank you council president everyone spoke about my vision for the city very favorably and I know sometimes decisions aren't always easy and this plan has been in the work for over a year and a half we've elicited um solicited a number of inputs and one of them was from the people that live in my district they want a direct connection from Southern Washington Street to Hudson play South they are tired of the homelessness problem they want an Arts venue they want ground floor retail and they don't want a deric parking lot so although I respect the voices of of folks that live in Midtown Hoboken and that want to see things stay the way they are this is a revolutionary plan for our tax base when this body starts to debate what is going to happen with our budget for 2024 you're going to need taxes and new taxes not not on the backs of the folks that already live in Hoboken so this building is going to generate rateable so now let's break it down there's been some misinformation 10% of affordable housing is the bare minimum it's going to start there and it's going to go up and my involvement as an unelected official is going to help continue affordability in downtown Hoboken two this plan um provides an entire floor for community space that is going to be directed towards those without homes homelessness let me just be direct it's a 20,000 square feet directed at the very people that are outside right now freezing freezing and there will have a home this is a revolutionary plan now the Arts we we we're so flippant to say the Arts don't belong in Hoboken but the same people that just spoke spoke tonight are the ones that decry the the the gentrification of Hoboken and the elimination of Arts in this city I think that the folks that spoke are two people amongst many that want to see Arts return to Hoboken we deserve a place where we can listen to live music see a play Inspire others through the Performing Arts this is dying not in Hoboken but across the the the country and the world um the the corners are are chamford think Barcelona think think a more inclusive way of sharing your streets right so when it says chamford it's not building up on the corners as a matter of fact the corner facing um City Hall um the southwest corner of of this project is actually going to invite folks inward Southwest I'm southwest Northwest Northwest where the where the door to CVS is right now is going to invite folks to enter this property and when you enter the property you're going going to be invited into a two-story experience that is publicly accessible that's going to have be surrounded by ground floor retail and it's going to connect in in a t Junction with Court Street how cool how revolutionary be fitting of Hoboken be fitting of Hoboken of yesterday year and the future this is the right plan for the right time it's big a portion of it is larger than I am comfortable with but it costs to build it costs to build with union labor the hardworking middle class deserves a place in Hoboken to build and to work safely it's expensive to build 20,000 ft of of of space for our homelessness and it's and it's a tough project to fund with a Performing Arts aspect to it so you hear it in my voice I'm a little frustrated that there's so many people there's a handful of people handful of people at the very most that find what's wrong with this but those people aren't seeing what's right about it so I urge my Council colleagues to look at the benefits of this project the tax ratables how our streets will be opened up for public uh purposes bringing Arts back to Hoboken housing the homeless and creating a corner uh a block of Hoboken that is truly revolutionary for the future so I hope the votes are here and I def defer back to the council president thank you so much thank you comments additional comments Mr fro please call the vote Mr con hi FCO yes Mr door hi M Fisher yes Gan Tino yes Mr Cano hi Mr Ramos I Mr Russo I president Jabor yes hearing on an ordinance B2 b625 at Nord of city of hobok and County of Hutson state of New Jersey amending North End Redevelopment plan for the North End Rehabilitation area are there any members of the public sign up to speak on this nope this is 1404 Willow and he says no motion to close public portion motion all in favor I council members councilman Cohen very briefly this is actually a very small Amendment to the plan uh this is a project for the the hert site 1404 Willow uh the Redevelopment plan as approved was going forward uh during the process the county uh noted that a fire Command Center was required to be included it wasn't on included it there's a slight adjustment existing f is minimum 65 it changes amended to0 6 the maximum residential NFA uh goes from 3.85 to 4.2 in order to accommodate the fire station so it's a relatively small change that requires Council approval thank you house president councilman Doyle do you want to just share for the record heard the findings of the planning board yep the planning board reviewed it it's it's a DI Minimus change as councilman Cohen is describing and it was mandated by our fire code and so that it was found to be consistent with the the amendment it was consistent with the master plan and the land you sell unanimous thank you council members any other comments questions Mr finina please call the vote Mr Cohen I Fusco yes Mr d i m Fisher yes bino yes Mr Cano hi Mr Ramos hi Mr Russo hi president Jabor yes hearing on an ordinance P 626 and ordinance amending chapter 196 Zing of the municipal code of the city of Hoboken affecting cornal Lots in the c-2 r-2 and R-3 zones are there any members of the public signed up to speak phallic Miss phallic good evening again I have some written remarks that I'm going to read but before I read them I'm glad I was first on this list so I wouldn't forget to say that I heard through the chair councilman defusco say people like the arts arts plural he didn't say artists part of the reason I think you didn't say artists is because they can't afford to live here anymore with that [Music] said I'll go into my written remarks I rise tonight to ask the city council to vote down the ordinance to upzone the corner buildings in R2 N3 and C2 unanimously for multiple reasons reasons the first being that I am concerned that future massive upzoning of the town or even partial upzoning will allow for Corners not covered under this ordinance to back into the up zoning permitted in this ordinance down the road but even without that future possibility this ordinance is extraordinarily destructive to the community as a whole in the following ways it will increase tenant displacement you may not believe or accept that displacement is an ongoing fact of living in Hoboken for many rent controled tenants but it is it's true that buildings with four or more units in those buildings the tenants don't need to leave but when tenants but when a landlord wants them out their living situation becomes more and more precarious with every passing day deferred maintenance starts to happen schemes to get the building condemned start and over time as tenants leave the remaining tenants become more concerned for their own personal safety as they become ultimately the only remaining tenant in the building I'm aware of more than one tenant that had to install surveillance cameras and in one case this owing to what seemed to be the landlord entering and snooping around the apartment when the tenant wasn't home which proved to be true that tenant no longer lives here corner up zoning will further erase our historic character as building after building is already being torn down this ordinance would incentivize much more of the same it will serve to eliminate rent protections for your constituents building by building as more buildings are torn down any council person voting yes is demonstrating their opposition to rent control because the replacement buildings are not rent controlled for 30 years it will encourage tenant harassment owing in part to our land use board members erroneously being precluded from taking the loss of protected units into account in considering applications for tear Downs as a negative Criterion which it should be in a city that pretends it wants economic diversity this should be an obvious negative to pass this ordinance is to further eliminate any semblance of economic diversity in the community as dis as replacement Franken condos appear where two to eight rent controlled units used to exist overall this needs to be a non-starter tonight and going forward from both an administrative and legislative standpoint it's time to put our affordability and displacement crisis at the front of the line instead of further adding to it thank [Applause] you Christine rella I I just wanted to read a message from someone that couldn't be here tonight and that person is April Harris she said if I was not in the middle of Distributing toys and Christmas dinners this week I would have come to the council meeting to speak to the public portion but I am confident expressing my thoughts and concerns to you personally is equally good as you know I have a long view of the development in Hoboken and in many ways our ordinances and lack of enforcement of property owner violations of state and even Municipal laws has eliminated lower rent controlled housing each change in our ordinances and zoning laws and tax codes make displacement of tenants in our original housing stock possible over the last 50 years your current proposal will further this trend it is sad day when all the essential workers that serve the more affluent in so many capacities cannot afford a place to live near family networks and schools their children have attended I have to conclude that if this passes our city council is pro-development for the retail convenience and profit of the affluent I would have to conclude the direction of our city is against maintaining a range of affordable housing units this makes me hard sick demoralize and discourage that there will ever be housing Justice Grace and peace April Harris and I agree with what she said Jane M Glory hi Jane mure I'm speaking tonight in fervent opposition to both the proposed Corner up zoning ordinance and any other Municipal action which would promote and facilitate the displacement of hoboken's rank control tenant Community though these tenants of which I am one are protected by robust New Jersey state renters rights we are nonetheless subjected to malicious landlord eviction strategies under the guise of property Redevelopment for the good of the city tonight's ordinance is one such subterfuge please don't be cous to the truth that landlords and developers will use your approval if granted as incentive to maliciously harass existing tenants into leaving despite their right to stay we know from hoboken's checkered fir setting pass that nothing is beneath those motivated by greed while today's harassment May take less Draconian form don't think for a moment that lives won't be upended many of our rank controlled neighbors have limited capacity to question or defend against these actions due to lowincome infirmity or lack of information we should care more about their well-being than about a developer's bottom line without a doubt harassment will occur let me tell you my personal experience with it I'm an artist and web designer who has lived lived and rented at the corner of fourth and Bloomfield for more than 31 years you no doubt have strolled by Empire coffee or Odo strata or local bar and other venues while I created their signs as well as the John lenon mural on Fourth and Washington Street I love Hoboken and believe the community and cultural contributions of our long-standing residents whether renter or owner must count for something and be worth protecting but not everyone agrees here's what my former landlord real estate broker Zohar zamir and my current landlord attorney Albert basetti did in their attempt to evict me in 2017 shortly after Mr basetti purchased I was shocked to receive a notice to vacate as I had abided by all the lease terms instead I was being evicted on the false claim that my rank Control Department which was historically one of six Apartments plus two commercial units all in one building would now be construed as being in a separate building from the other five apartments and therefore subject to eviction and owner occupation fortunately after review of all the deeds and records and the architect's blueprint the landlord scheme was clear at sale they altered the property description for the first time to misrepresent the property as consisting of two buildings at trial the judge agreed they had no legal basis for doing so and ruled in my favor Mr basetti who purchased under an LLC had even gone to the extent of enlisting a private party individual to purchase the requisite 5% ownership stake in order to claim he would live there after my eviction he paid approximately $800,000 over listing in all in an all cash deal for this novel Twist on a delivered vacant sale long story short after months of angsten legal fees I was fortunate but other renters haven't been so lucky the awful Behavior renters are subjected to in Hoboken takes many forms please don't incentivize it any further and please don't give my landlord another vehicle for eviction thank you all for listening Erica seisan good evening happy holidays uh Erica 325 Grand Street uh I'm asking you to vote no tonight it's also a little bit personal I last I believe it was like two or three weeks ago the zoning board approved a tear down of 325 327 329 Grand Street where I currently live uh displ potentially displacing 16 rent controlled units in favor of to Affordable and I think the most frustrating thing for me and upsetting that if I was con not connected I wouldn't know so how is it possible that somebody can displace me but not even tell me until construction permits are available and the to me the most frustrating and the irony part is that I was actually in a meaning to work on the Housing Authority Redevelopment plan so I'm here trying my hardest to uh work on housing which is desperately needed which we'll speak on later yet you're somebody is okay with everybody kicking me out of my house and where am I going to go because fact is I I work for the state I do not make $100,000 uh I love my town I'm hoping that we can come to some sort of conclusion where we could I'm not against developers but there really not okay to just say we can take out 16 units without even having a conversation with all the constituents in the room and seeing what can be done so I just ask you to votee no today and think about trying to work with everybody for the better of all and Happy Holidays thank you Mary Andrea okay I can do it so please don't cut me off Mar andreco went 599 Street I stand here this evening on the last city council meeting of the Year 2023 to address you collectively as all of you fall into a certain sector and class of society I do not believe yet do not fully know if any of you as individuals have ever lived on the edge of Life by that I mean I do not believe that currently any of you are starving have enough clothes to wear or have a comfortable roof over your head except for Mr ruse so as of this moment all of you are fortunate enough to own the home you live in and a few of you have more than one home wonderful for all of you you never have to depend upon a landlord to control your life's circumstances that is not the situation for thousands of run control residents living in Hoboken today I am one of them my circumstances in life did not allow for ownership but that fact does not mean that my existence in this town automatically reduces my viability as a human being who deserves to live without fear of possible harassment because I'm a tenant thousands of tenants in this town are reduced to a class of people that experience indign indignities that continue to stun me daily the residents of 325 329 Grand Street had their washing machines and dryers removed how would any of you like it if your washing machine and dryer were removed from your home also the tenants have been forbidden to go outside in the back of their building now why because the owner wants to kick out 16 rent controled tenants to knock down three buildings and build luxury housing with astronomical rents he wants a different class of resident to live in these buildings as a council you favor every development developer that throws a carrot in front of you I don't know why what promises rewards that might just come or benefit you or your political allies and how many of you actually do care that tenants are displaced how many of you are against or indifferent to rent control after all it is not your battle the type of abuse towards rent control tenants by some landlords is part of a systematic approach by them that is facilitated by this city and this Council and the zoning and planning boards to favor the developers over its residents with this latest attempt to upscale the buildings on the ends of blocks verifies this attempt to get rid of more rent controlled units and or more renters not paying rents of at least $33,000 or more the upscaling of the town and changes the designations of what is allowable to be built by ordinances the city council passes only perpetuates the greed of the owners to easily jettison long-term renters whose rents are not in the Stratosphere the continual progression of a class system being systematically orchestrated by the upzoning buildings or neighborhoods for only the well-to-do residents who do not care if their rent is $3,500 a month there is no reason on Earth any of you on this Council should vote for upzoning in this town of many renters what stores we have are barely surviving on Washington Street and we already have plenty of businesses on most of the corners in this town on the first floor I have had to listen to city council members who are santimon is self-righteous and fainting how much they care about the residents of Hoboken well there exists tenants of rent control units that matter in this town and this sector is tired of being relegated to the bottom of the class system that exists today in Hoboken lastly every time this Council or planning board or zoning board messes with zoning they are playing Russian roulette with tenants the city's boards are always spinning the barrel to change the circumstances for developers interests while almost a assuredly creating unfortunate circumstances for the tenants where they always become the victims of harassment and abuse thank you thank you Eric [Applause] VY can can I real quickly sure I think we may have to still go through so I'm gonna as the sponsor of this I'm going to pull it after a brief statement so I don't know if that changes anyone's desire to speak right maybe I'll I'm going to pull it from the agenda so please go I'm just saying if we want to save time tonight please feel free to speak okay that's I enough thank you Cheryl okay all right well first of all I'm also a longtime tenant and I I've been very fortunate I have very a very good landlord I I don't have any complaints about my landlord I'm very happy with that but certainly that's not always the case as you've heard and this is just a small sample so I think it's not a good idea I mean this technically speaking is not a rent Control Ordinance but it is a matter of incentivizing and you can see it doesn't take much of a negative incentive to have very negative behavior um one thing I will say um that was slightly different from where I was going to go with this I'll just say you know I I read I read the ordinance in question and the the exception for Corner buildings seems to me will in inevitably bring calls of discrimination from owners of midblock buildings because they'll want to have the same the same benefit because this is only for Corner buildings and then other other ordinances and and matters talked about tonight talked about possible litigation against the city of hobok and and how many people are suing it seems like people always talking about suing hobok well it seems like with this you're opening up again the Poss of more litigation against city of hobo because the mid flock people will say you're discriminating against us uh as I saw to to say earlier I've been a resident of Hoboken for more than 40 years I've seen a lot of changes in Hoboken over over those years some been good but I've seen a lot of a lot of bad we've lost a lot of historical buildings and with them a lot of the longtime residents and tenants um a lot of affordable housing That's goes with that um Council councilman defusco in his remarks earlier talked about one of the things he liked about Hoboken was the neighbor I don't know exactly what the quote was but something about the neighborhood Feld and walking around getting one know one's neighbors um and I also and I think I think all of us like that the human scale the human scale of this community and this city and we were talking about this all I don't know much about the earlier developments we're talking about we see developments and then going up and up and making it bigger and bit by bit losing the human scale just making this more of a impersonal nonhuman scale sized city tearing the fabric of the community as under I don't know why we're accelerating this I I was recently reading a uh a Blog about someone was talking about Chicago a person from Chicago and talk about how Chicago's been ruined and listed all the things happening in Chicago I thought is this about Chicago is this about Hoboken I mean it's or New York it seems to be happening all over the country losing affordable housing these places becoming just incredibly expensive to live uh there's another friend of mine who know has her daughter lives in Hawaii she talks in that Community it's a wealthy community but she's not her daughter isn't wealthy and having a great deal of trouble getting by and saying that a lot of the small businesses are closing in that Community because the workers can't afford to live there and I don't know I'm not a businessman in Hoboken or business person in Hoboken I don't know how much of an effect that's having but seems that got to be an issue certainly if all the workers can't afford to live here they have to commute here which adds to the congestion and that can't be good I mean we the congestion just gets worse and worse the traffic jams going in and out of town the crowding on the public transportation I don't really know about the that ordinance previous ordinance the Fabian Arts uh ordinance we were talking about I'm right really up on that but there was talk about Arts as Cheryl said the be the beginning of the talk about this ordinance about artists you know we Everyone likes Arts what about artists I've been here long enough I remember back in the 80s When I Was Here we had a really vibrant art scene a really vibrant music scene and that's really you know and I don't want to disourage the people to keep it up there's some who heroically keep on keeping on and that's good but it's not what it was it was certainly far more vibrant back in the day one of the reasons was because artists could afford to live in this town and now it's now it's extremely difficult and and once again we give this this incentive to to keep the the affordable housing and and give the incentive to tear it down and replace it with less affordable housing it's just going to it's just going to make sure we never have you know we never get any sort of art seen so I think that's most of what I had to say and I'm going write it five minutes so I'll just say I ask the city council to please vote no on this ordinance thank Dan Thompson Mr Thompson hello it is clear that today's zoning ordinance amendments coupled with future amendments will ultimately upzone Corner buildings from three residential stories to five stories this increase in height and density reduces the quality of life for the neighborhood as is OB vious from the zoning Law's intended restriction to three stories not only does this lead to a consequent reduction in quality of life there is also an incentive for the owners to tear down the corner buildings in order to rebuild them higher with resulting negative consequences existing tenants are evicted and displaced rent control protections are lost and the historic nature of the pre-existing build buildings is also lost but there is even further damage a domino effect in that buildings adjacent to the corner up Zone buildings can also be increased in height if there is a pre-existing building on the other side of the adjacent building whose height exceeds three stories this will permit the building adjacent to the corner upgraded building to also be increased to the height of the smaller of the two building adjacent to it which will exceed three stories thus the corner up zoning will not only increase the heights of corner buildings it will lead to up zoning of buildings adjacent to Corner buildings with the consequent spread of the damaging increase in height and density in violation of the intent of the zoning law as well as resulting in increased loss of historic structures and displacement of existing tenants and undermining of the rent control law enacting this ordinance will be very damaging to Hoboken and its residents please vote against it thank you Michael Evers good evening uh I've got to tell you I have finally reached my Popeye moment so to speak and I think a lot of the other people here have as well and what I mean by that is you know poey says that's all I can stand I can't stand anymore all right the fact that this thing even got this far is an embarrassment it should never have made it past first reading somebody on the council I won't embarrass them by mentioning them their names app find that this was probably just a gift to developers okay that's great we're going to make a gift to developers it involves taking people's homes away in exchange for it you might call the soft bribery of campaign contributions really that's what you you you care about power that much people on this Council that that's what you want to do to get it that's pretty sad now I've listened to 30 years of Hudson County smoke blowing and and this is I say it in an admiring way one of the most sophisticated places on Earth for that sort of thing what really matters is actions I don't want to hear any explanations here myself personally I'm going to judge by what actions you take but actually what I came up here to talk about in part was numbers here's some numbers I've got there sequences anybody want to play the lottery feel free 163 409 973 75 207 and 393 those are the margins of Victories of you folks who are on the council and Pa over there congratulations okay and that includes one guy who ran unopposed and one guy who I did you hire that guy to run against you really okay he's a nice man I sure he is he is another set of numbers from 2017 the last time we had a real City count you know Citywide election because there was no pandemic 484 642 512 246 and 131 now I've got a third set of numbers that's 5,000 to 10,000 people that's an educated estimate of who still lives in affordable in in rent controlled housing in this place plus another 5,000 for the people living in in public housing who probably would like to Aspire to move up okay now this is your public notice people who vote for this thing or any of the other ones coming down the pike the the the the the crap complete redesign of the thing you will be considered by me and I can tell you a whole bunch of other people enemies of rent control and by extension enemies of the people that live in those rent controlled properties now and in the future that fact the actions you take which are facts will be hung around your neck like an anchor it will follow you for the rest of your political careers I'm not kidding all these folks who came down here and sat here for hours are not kidding and this was two weeks to get it organized okay now frankly I would appeal to the better angels of your nature instead there's a real opportunity here Mike I would ask you not to withdraw your proposal I would ask you to have it voted down 9 to zero to send a message to the social parasites who decide they're going to make their living by destroying people's homes they couldn't figure out how to build anything else but things that destroy people's homes send them a clear message that the city council does not entertain and is not interested in supporting those kinds of things okay now I would think if I were you folks very Phil by the way I'm told you're going to change your vote congratulations good choice but I'll be quite blunt okay you should choose very very very carefully how you vote on this thing and if you don't vote it down well hey you know it's Jenis Khan said it's you not I that have chosen War so Merry Christmas motion to motion to close public portion oh I'm sorry I'm sorry Manuel Rivera Solair I'm sorry we overlooked I'm sorry three great I'm sorry I'm sorry good evening council president I know that I I said I wasn't going to speak on all the beat ordinance and that is true for the next five that are coming but in this one I would like to uh speak because I didn't know that um I was not going to be the only L voice up here this uh this meeting and it again it gives a a member of the public uh great joy to see that many people are paying attention and are doing their research because it is important because I am the person in the zoning board and the planning board that listens to all of this that ask the questions sometimes I cannot ask the questions but for a council member to infer or imply in the prior time I spoke at B 620 for or anyone that spoke was a person that was either against anything coming to Hoboken that is going to benefit the public or all the public or members of of the neighborhoods where the buildings are going to be it is it is wrong you should just explain your vote how you believe this ordinance or any ordinance would be good for the residents of public booking and not try to tell people well you're up here a handful two of you five of you 20 of you it doesn't matter if it's one or a thousand their opinion members of The public's opinion is important and I know that even though you are having a snack you are listening to my voice because it is important once again to tell you all that this meeting could go on for more hours there are still more than five to eight ordinances so if any member of the public here would like to stay for all of them and speak I will join them but of course they won't but I tell you listen to the members of the public and now I'm going back to this very ordinance whether you voted down 9 to zero which would be best as someone said to send the message correct because we are being displaced because you are going to allow people to build higher because if they can get a foot they'll take eight I've been in the meetings I can tell you and there is nothing anyone can do because when you get up and you say well what about this well and then if you're getting that can we get this no you can't ask for nothing it is the developers way or the highway so I know that there are good develops developers right there are some but not all are looking at this the same way if you vote this tonight in the positive immediately there's a developer that's waiting on Third Street to build higher so listen to members of the public don't demean what they're saying because you disagree with it just listen to it synthesize it in your brain and then come back with a reason why you are voting for this that or the other and I don't mean to offend anyone here I respect all of you I respect all of the boards they do hard work they're not doing anything they fer it's just the way the system is the way the code is written that's why you need to take time when you do these things in the planning board meeting on Monday there was issues there was issues with with the section I think it was if I could be wrong if it was C2 or R2 there was a a section there that that didn't have a gimme a gimme is is is something that we could ask for it had nothing it was a loophole as the master plan has loopholes so that's why when we do these ordinance it cannot be done on a fly on a week or two it needs to be done holistically you need to look at the whole picture and that is what I wanted to say again I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you taking members of the public into consideration when they speak and and answer their questions thank you thank you motion to close public abortion second all in favor at the request of the sponsor councilman thank you so much um prior to first of all it's it's important to be seen and heard right I I respect that and your voices and your patience in speaking are really important um I was going to pull this ordinance before you all spoke I didn't know you were here to speak on this because there's a discrepancy with the master plan the planning board came back on Monday and said there was a discrepancy with the master plan so in my opinion it should not move forward because the planning board did not recommend it right but now I feel compelled to respond um you're wrong no not let me just explain why then I'll tell you why no thank you um the the ordinance at hand basically gives 5T on Corner Lots in the in the districts that we had designated the 5T is already the enemy of of affordable housing on the corners is not the council is not politics is not developers the enemy is actually the flood ordinance and we need a flood ordinance raising up the livable space of any building within the flood zone to be above base flood elevation is causing buildings to start residential floors 8 8T 10t above the street level so just by a very nature of the flood ordinance were raising up buildings now what happens as a result of that is that the ground floor space which used to be a residence can no longer be a residence and what developers are doing selfishly I agree with you there is that they're putting privatized storage spaces for those really expensive apartments that you guys don't like so what I'm saying is that to maintain the livil livability of Hoboken what we love is is what Jane Jacob said you know put lights on the street you know put like put put put corner stores mom and pop shops making usable space out of those Corners is good planning and it adds 5T to a building that is already going to be demolished and put before the board regardless of the fact so this was good planning because it inspires the kind of productive change for our neighborhoods so the planning board came back and they said that I'm sorry I thought I heard somebody else speaking okay let's let's please just let him finish his statement so your battle is not against politicians your battle is actually against the flood ordinance so I think that you guys have have been heard abundant my God are you not embarrassed I'm trying to I'm trying to talk to you and trying to explain the actual lot folks please I I'm going to have to go into recess if we can't get through this and I know we have some really important business that we want to get to please just let him finish his statement thank you councilman I know so these demolitions are going to continue to happen but if you continue to oppose progress there's not going to be a conversation you need a conversation you need to be able to talk to people without being mocked as you folks are doing as we speak and to have a vision for the community that actually looks at what the the the physical problems are and Advance them in a way that is beneficial I'm pulling this not because of this but because of the recommendation of the planning board thank you so much coun oh and by the way Cheryl you failed at keeping my best friend in his rent control Department he had to move to Mammoth County so no matter how hard you're fighting you didn't do a good enough job okay thank you so much council president can I just um councilman can I clarify do you wish to pull this or do you want to and to the co-sponsor councilman Cohen mean I I'll I'll defer to councilman defus oh totally pulling the recommendation of the planning board was not to move forward okay um I at the uh suggestion of councilman excuse me gtino um had this suggestion that we should suspend the agenda in order to have um ordinance number 13 which is b634 herd our colleagues from the Housing Authority have patiently ated including the director I'm very grateful that you all are here so um I'm going to take the opportunity to move to b634 uh in order to have the discussion about the Housing Authority uh Redevelopment plan would you please read the title ordinance adopting the Redevelopment plan for the hobok and Housing Authority uh 634 we're going to start um director Reco uh out of professional courtesy if you wish to start with the remarks thank you ma'am and uh thank you to the council for considering this uh and it's been a journey we have been almost five years on this journey through our strategic plan um all the way to our Redevelopment plan um it's been a great journey and we've shared this journey with many of you we've certainly shared it with our chairman Miss Reyes who's here tonight our vice chair Erica sitzman and our board member Aon lewit that's with with us tonight to support this our board passed a resolution in support of this um so they are firmly in support of this um and and uh we look forward to moving forward um we have many partners here um we have through this entire process from our strategic plan to this Redevelopment plan had partners with HUD who have been with us every step of the way and support us and have been monitoring us every step of the way to make sure we're in the right direction we're on the right path we've had legal counsel we've had residents we've had an Enterprise Planning Group which are through a technical assistance grant through hutter professionals from all over the country the top Professionals in this field helping us with our strategic plan into our Redevelopment plan of course we've had the partners of the city C the City Planning Department who have been excellent in working with us intricately working with us on developing this Redevelopment plan we have not been left in the dark we are all a partner here that led to our board approving this moving forward at HHA and this is called from us HHA forward is essential we have buildings that are 70 years old they are falling apart they are not part of Hoboken if you consider Hoboken and you look back where we are right imaginary tracks along Jackson we want to eliminate that we want to make the Hoboken Housing Authority more part of Hoboken we not only have built in very serious very serious protections for all of our existing residents our board is very clear on that no one will be displaced out of Hoboken during this and in answer to a number of concerns tonight we have the opportunity to actually increase our low and moderate income housing in Wilmington in Wilmington in in Hoboken we are here tonight to to tr to start to make this happen um it's long overdo and if it's not done I'm actually in fear of at some point our buildings having to be in that condemned State we must start moving forward it's crucial it's important and we commit as a housing authority to having the public with us to having our residents with us on every step of the way having the City Planning and having all of us together um this is a milestone this is a milestone that HUD is looking at very carefully to look at Hoboken and the Hoboken Housing Authority that we can actually plan this we can make this happen they are very pleased with our progress to date and I think they're looking at us tonight saying are we going to make this move or not um this has been so long in in in preparation I would like in in closing just to say to uh thank you um to um councilman Doyle for making this an even better plan uh because it came to council it it was then brought back and then it was brought back to the planning board for some improvements and and that small delay made it a better plan so so thank you for that and we thank you for your partnership we look forward to working with you in the future and seeing a bright new future for low and moderate income people that will be protected for the next 50 years here in hoken so thank you very much thank you director REO uh and I would like to oh I'm also going to recognize um as chair of the Housing Authority board our colleague Barbara Rees to come up and speak next oh and vice chair ER sitman I'm sorry I didn't know you're going to come together thank you both for being here and for being patient thank you for having us um good evening city council I'm here twofold obviously many of you know I am a resident of the Housing Authority so this Redevelopment is what we need it's what will make it better for the residents there um so tonight you have the resolution of the HHA Redevelopment in front of you and as a resident who lives in the HHA I ask you unan unanimously to pass this resolution I firsthand can tell you how residents deserve better housing and a better quality of life there is this Redevelopment does just that for our our residents it is impossible for all the issues that arise daily in the HHA to be addressed and corrected properly without this Redevelopment we have our executive director here who obviously you've heard of and I know many of you guys who actually email us daily with the concerns of the residents are very well aware of what our residents go through on a daily on a daily basis as a resident um I want everyone here to know as city council members and as the residents who are listening this affects me personally so I would never ever back a project that I didn't believe in and that I didn't think that was there to benefit us so I'm here today to ask you not only as the board chair but as a resident to please pass this it's necessary for our um residents and I think the director also brought up an important piece and I know our councilman and Russo you hear it probably more than anybody that we are always the Forgotten part of Hoboken and this this Redevelopment will change that and will probably change the minds of the residents there so I guess I I just hope that you guys do pass it and secondly as chairwoman I'm also here to address another issue that we have been faced as a board um I'm pretty sure many of you have had the poor um have had the oh God to F okay I'm pretty sure that many of you have followed our monthly meetings and um and I would just like to assure all of you sitting here today because there have been some quite disgusting accusations made at some of these meetings that have made many of us Commissioners uncomfortable um to let you guys know that any policies that we are passing on the board at the Hoboken Housing Authority are done so that we can can work to better our residents and in the best interest of our residents and um I can assure you that every single commissioner that is on that board is held to the same standard um so I ask you all on this board and on the administration in the future when we have Commissioners or candidates for Commissioners please I ask you to ensure that the individual placed on our board that affects our resident really does have the best interest of our residents and not any other agenda so I would just like to thank you all and I hope that you guys pass this um resolution in front of you tonight thank you thank you thank you I'd like to Echo what Barbara said we really appreciate the partnership I think it only gets better when you're together uh everybody looks at it like it's the Housing Authority versus the city but it's really not we are the housing authority of the city of Hoboken so uh thank you again hopefully we can have more togetherness I know many of you have come and participate we've seen I think everybody this year um and thank you again thank you both very much Manny Rivera oh um aarin commissioner Le did you wish to speak well I have I have alss there my voice um these buildings would cost more to fix than replace and you know hard was down on that and once I'm all knocked down and um rebuilt and what else um I forgot it's okay that's okay thank you commissioner Manny Rivera good evening council president uh I didn't think we were going to get to 13 so fast uh I want to uh express myself on this uh ordinance um it is for a lifetime of a person living in a city where they have seen so many changes um I mean throughout the city this is something uh long awaited this is something that's going to bring uh people um up to standards they're going to feel you're going to change it's it's a Monumental change is what I want to say um it was as transparent as possibly could be I went to as many meeting as was possible they were held all over the different um uh buildings uh that the housing has at their disposal to meet and participation one time or so was low but people were enthusiastic uh there should be interest in this throughout the city not just the people for the housing because it will change this will really change um the um the tography of our city our our our whole um architectural uh uh stance in that part of our town and I believe that it's a good thing irregardless of the unfounded inuendos um that were presented without proof If you give me proof I'll listen to you but if you don't give me proof I won't so um the person who made those accusations they should have brought proof but I am 100% that my mic just oh it came back uh that this project would be and is going to be a gem this one is going to be a gem it's done with uh the oversight of many people um council members that are also on the authority council members that represent the residents there they will not go forward with something that is not going to be of value and of uh great and Monumental change for the residence of the Housing Authority so with this one it should be unanimous 9 to0 as well the people who are waiting for this have been waiting way too long so I would appreciate all of you to do that and I thank you again and I'm sure many gener ation of hobok nightes who will be living in these buildings will thank you even though we may not be here but thank you again and please vote yes thank you there any other members of the public sign up to speak motion to close public portion all in favor I comments I would just like to thank uh director Reco for your kind words but I we would be remiss if uh director Brown and as I I know you've acknowledged him and his team KC RJ and uh jessicaa were very kind to indulge me and Mr Barry I see you there um thank you very much for your prompt uh you know review and and help in explaining many things to me so I'm 100% behind this and do you want to just register the planning board yes the planning board voted unanimously that is consistent with the master plan thank you very much Council Ramos yeah uh thank you council president thank you councilman Doyle uh this is a long time coming right and I've been uh elected official for 25 years now and uh HHA residents mean a lot to me my family and a lot of times uh I'll be honest I felt like a failure because the conditions weren't what they should be but we kept trying we kept trying you know we never gave up so many people to thank so many residents that aren't with us anymore that win this fight for a long time I'm certainly happy that 10 years ago or 12 12 years ago when we started talking about the revitalization of Housing Authority and the tone that took place at that time was so adversarial uh so combative amongst Hoboken residents that it almost didn't feel like Hoboken that we always had each other's back and this was almost like the exception to that rule where maybe we disagreed with each other but this that it felt a lot different so I think we took this mantelon it years ago seven years ago now that that was the first thing we wanted to change include everyone throughout our city in this process so when we have the final vote tonight you this know the meetings were packed people were screaming at each other people were getting thrown out of meetings it's not like that and I think everyone's in a much happier place knowing that this is just still a first step right and a and a and a long road to go but this is like the major first step right it's is like the the first sleep like one once fall man but big stuff for mankind right this is kind of jumping off the moon and and it kind of feels that way it's like a Christmas miracle Jim text me that night planning board maybe you didn't believe me so I'm have tears of joy tonight and I did I have more tears of joy tonight but I notic was just the beginning of the next step the financing so many other questions so many things we have to figure out still but just the comfort that this was such a collaborative effort of everyone up here the mayor's office director Brown the HHA Commissioners so many residents HHA residents nonha residents and and here we are right hopefully a N9 nothing vote tonight and there's one thing like uh commissioner Ry has boed up tonight and we put up there been a lot of members on boards right throughout the years right whether it's a zoning board a planning board council members I've never gone to bed right we've all disagreed cons we're going you and I disagree on something jenu and I disagreed on something but I never went to bed thinking that they did not have the best interest in Hoboken right for first and foremost right never Council M Doyle will disagree director Freeman and I will disagree on something I never go to bed thinking that he doesn't care about our city however there's always an exceptions to every rule right we do have one commissioner that I think doesn't care about our city doesn't care about our residents you know whether how that person got there or not he shows time and time again that he doesn't care they have a vote for a boiler replace a boiler votes no replace a roof votes no fix an elevator votes no exterminator votes no I don't get why that person's on that board if there's anything we do to remove that person from the board I think we should try and take that because event you have to care right councilman Melo was on the was on our colleague here was on the board em and I disagreed on Housing Authority PO with you director Reco new commissioner Reyes right but I never went to bed thinking that that that Mr Melo councilman Melo didn't care about the Haj residents right I think this one individual has to start caring a little bit more than he does and and because none of their residents right have to earn their respect of the residents as well the residents you serve and I think he's earned that respect in the time that he's been there but I thank everyone you know it's a joyous occasion right a joyous night I thank you all for for this journey right it's part of part of the mission is a journey right in life and this is a a journey that we won't forget but it's still a mission to go thank you so much everyone council president sure can I just one just um the commissioner that he's talking about I don't know if who got it but sent us an email tonight telling us not to um approve this so not only not just a boiler but just not the plan itself and we if if there's a general feeling we've removed people from boards before it's not an easy thing there's public hearings Etc but it's something that is probably if there's a strong feeling it's something you should look into on how to do that we have um after hearing councilman Ramos get emotional I I feel somewhat guilty uh being able to sit here and vote in the affirmative on something that so many people have worked so long and hard for before I arrived so um I acknowledge that I I get to help cross the finish line but I didn't necessarily run the whole race myself but that's that's I mean we all find ourselves in that situation in whatever stage in life um which is why you know I've made an extra commitment to really get the folk to know the folks of the Housing Authority especially over this past year um and I encourage everyone in Hoboken to do that whether it's through one of the events that go on down there or any other opportunity you'll find a community that is pure pure love I mean they didn't know me from a hole in the wall before I started showing up and now you know there I don't know everyone but but we hug hello you know they're they're true friends at this point um and this the sense of community is stronger there than I'll say anywhere else in in town so I can't think of any group that is more deserving I think we need to spread the uh that sense of caderie that exists within the HHA to the rest of the town and we'd be better served for it thank you um I can remember probably I asked commissioner LT five times to apply for the board and he just kept turning me down um and then I found out he retired from his job and we had an opening so I called him and I said before you say no just think about how much time you're going to have on your hands to be on this board and I know it was not Aaron you alone that brought this forward but I really felt strongly that you were the right person to connect all of hobok in and I just want to thank you for that so thank you and I am excited to vote Yes tonight thank you council president uh actually I want to thank councilwoman Fischer for mentioning that email that I I just read it and uh it's disgusting uh you know I just I want to acknowledge and thank director REO uh for his leadership on this uh this is a big project it took a lot of work and it takes someone to take the hits at the front uh and you've done that uh and you've marshaled this thing through uh so I want to congratulate you director REO I want to thank you for your leadership because it takes a leader to to Marshall this through and you've been that leader so I want to thank you I want to thank you for your leadership to the Housing Authority for getting this done I want to thank the Commissioners who are here tonight I want to thank chairman Reyes uh for your leadership on the board I know board service is not easy and you've had lots of challenges and you've handled them with Grace and dignity and with a True Heart uh and compassion for the residents uh where you live and who you love so thank you for your leadership uh chairman Reyes uh and I I want to acknowledge and thank uh director Brown as well and the leaders from the city who worked with this and to uh uh councilman Doyle for taking the time to go through uh in the detail that you always do and bring to large projects like you did for this one congratulations any other comments yes president sure I have a very unique opportunity to not only serve here as a councilman but to serve on the the Housing Authority commission as well uh and it's not the first time I was able to do that I actually did it in years past as well you know this isn't just 12 years in the making this is for me 48 years in the making I played down there I had dinner in those units with my friends Ruben could Ruben could say the same he was able to serve not only here at the on the council but as a commissioner he was able to have dinner in some of those units he was able to play on that field this for me is so important because it allows me to see how my community has embraced the things that I've seen through the 48 years of my life in the Housing Authority that's when Ramos hit the nail right on the head when we first started talking about this it was so contentious there would there were fights literal fights about how are we going to do it and what it was really about and we were just trying to displace people or we were just trying to uh develop areas it was so surreal for someone like me who grew up here who understood that as Hoboken residents we stuck together and we worked hard to make sure we all had the best we could possibly have that continues here tonight and that's a testament to all my colleagues here on the council and a testament to well most of my colleagues on the Housing Authority commission the administration the mayor all the professionals that worked so hard our partners in HUD everyone pitched in on so many different levels we would spend another five hours talking about all those individuals right now I'm just so elated I'm so happy that we are absolutely moving this ball down the field this is one of the steps but the next steps are going to move quicker and we're going to find more space and we're going to have less conversations about things like rent control because we're building more affordable housing we're going to have less less conversations about where are my grandparents going to live because we're going to build more senior housing these are the goals that we should all strive for on a daily basis the next Redevelopment that comes before this city Geral was right 10% is not enough should be 15 20 30 every single time we look at a new development in the city of Hoboken that should be in the front of our mind so that we could House people across the city on all levels from homelessness to Veterans to our disabled residents to those in low and moderate income families and those that are doing very well we need to house everyone across the board in this city we have the opportunity to do that starting with this project so thank you all and I hope everyone will support it tonight I'll just add my thanks um director REO and for the Commissioners were all here thank you for being patient and hanging in there for this vote tonight um chairwoman Reyes you have my undying respect for what you deal with in those meetings um thank you for all of your leadership because it has not been a small lift I realize um thank you to director Brown everybody at City Hall and for supporting this uh Mr Fina please call the vote on B 63 634 I Mr FCO yes Mr Doyle i m fiser yes J Tino yes Mr Cano I Mr Ramos I Mr Russo I president jaor yes thank you for yep we're going to go back to B 627 Mr Fina we suspended the agenda so going back to the regular order thank you on the wish we had b627 b627 on an ordinance amending chapter 190 D31 entitled closing School streets parking for school zones to amend carbide regulations the designate school districts only parking zone are there any members of the public signed up to speak motion to close public portion all in favor I council members Mr finina please call the vote on b627 Mr con I FCO yes Mr Doyle i m fiser yes Tino yes Mr Ramos i i i Soro I Mr Russo Mr raym president Jabor yes uh hearing on an ordinance amending chapter 190-11 title loading zone there loading zone to monrose Street between First Street Observer Highway 9th Street between Park Avenue and Garden Street are there any members of the public signed up to speak no we seeing none motion to close public portion motion all in favor I council members Mr fan b628 Mr Mr con hi PCO yes Mr Doyle hi Mr fiser yes Mr G gtino yes Mr Cano hi Mr Ramos hi Mr Russo president jaor yes uh hearing on an ordinance b629 an ordinance amending chapter 19071 entitle Municipal manage electric vehicle charging stations relocate charging stations on Washington Street and add charging stations to Park Avenue are there any members of the public signed up to speak motion to close public portion motion all in favor I council members just really quickly sure I think this was already installed which I'm not sure how that's possible being which one which one the the second uh second in Washington Park AV in First Street or second in Washington they're moving at 20 ft yeah move oh got it per on Washington they're adding the one on Park corre so they're just they're just taking the one on Washington literally that was just put in and moving it 20 feet that's fine 280 to 260 so the other question I have is um director sharp sharp is not here yeah director is this this is the the the charging station we discussed on on First Street okay but it's on it's going to be on first it's there's one on First and one on that corner on the park side that's the way it's written up at least so it's like two stations like a pod basically okay so basically in front of baking Mama's coffee shop uh that's that's Garden Street yeah okay yeah it's on it's on the park AV side there so like the East Side that's fine and then for Washington Street uh they're not moving equipment so there used to be uh a reserved Ada space that was between uh where the two stations are going um but that space has been vacated I think at the last council meeting so now you got to be so it makes sense yeah to just squeeze them together and so that's what they're doing we're doing doing everything uh concurrently awesome thank you thank you director thank you director Mr F on b629 Mr Cohen hi the Fusco yes Mr Doyle hi M fiser yes je Tino yes Mr Cano hi Mr Ramos hi Mr Russo hi president Jabor yes hearing on an ordinance B 630 an ordinance amending chapter 192-in for persons with disabilities to add and remove reserved parking spaces are there any members of the public signed up to speak motion to close public portion all in favor I any council members Mr Fina please call the vote on b630 Mr con I Fusco yes Mr D Mr fiser yes dintino yes Mr Cano hi Mr Ramos hi Mr Russo I president jaor yes hearing on an ordinance b631 an ordinance amending chapter 190 D 29.9 entitled conditional time limit parking locations and fees and then parking of north side of Fifth Street between River Street and Sinatra Drive are there any members of the public sign up to speak no motion to close public portion motion all in favor hi council members Mr Fina please call the vote on b631 Mr con I the fosco yes Mr Doyle hi M Fisher yes bantino yes Mr Cano I Mr Ramos hi Mr Russo hi president jaor yes ordinance on a hearing b632 and ordinance of the city of Hoboken removing hobo removing hobok and city code section 29a article 3 29 uh I'm sorry 20 a article 3 20 C and 20D and City local pay to play ordinance according with the state law and election transparency act are there any members of the public signed up to speak no seeing none motion to close public abortion all in favor I counc members counc fesco this meeting is full of emotions tonight and I will just say that um I'm going to be abstaining on this um out of principle uh for 4 years um I defended my right to have a First Amendment voice um a court of law agreed with me and I will listen to every single person that supports this and smile at them because more than likely they opposed it and um willingly let the the criminal case proceed against me every single person that votes for this I will smile at you and thank you for agreeing with me and that the Witch Hunt was a political one thank you additional comments Mr finina please call the vote on b632 Mr con I Fusco abstain Mr Doyle I Fisher no D Tino no Mr Cano I Mr Ramos I Mr Russo I president Jabor yes hearing on an ordinance 633 an ordinance of city of hoken the wave sh constru construction building fees for public and charter schools are are there any members of the public signed up to speak on this motion to close public portion all in favor I council members on b633 Mr finina please call the vote Mr con I the FCO yes Mr Doyle hi M fiser yes Gan Tino yes Mr Cano hi Mr Ramos hi Mr Russo I president Shor yes okay public on agenda items Manny Lis Louis canas no all right happy Wednesday everyone still J Thursday yeah I know uh my name is lisis I'm CEO of community lifestyle um and I'm actually here to thank everyone for my for the support of our organization seven years later we're still striving and I cannot believe we're still here can't believe we're still driving free programs for our kids and it's to our donors it's to everyone all of our community members to all of you council members that help and support our organization Ruben to everyone here so that that is amazing for us to serve over 400 kids this year in flag football to serve 90 kids in our flag in our summer camp program for all8 weeks and to have over 150 teenagers in our programs year ra that is amazing but really what's what I'm passionate about is my the teenagers and unfortunately it's it's that that area that group that demographic that's really underserved our teenagers are constantly being kicked out of Church Square Park our teenagers are constantly being told get get away from their soref fronts get away from the stools get away from the steps and they don't have an outlet they don't have a lot of programs and I want to give a big shout out to the public library and their teen department for having those Services Monday through Friday but the problem is is that these teens need a another outlet they need another source of a place for them of place that they can really call home for teens and my vision is to have teen nights and I've been you know striving to to make this work you know a vision that on Saturday nights from you know 6:00 to 10 or 7 to 10 or 7-Eleven you know our teens can have a place multi-service Center which is you know would be ideal has a gymnasium I got the okay from the Bingo ladies come on you can't mess with the Bingo people all right to use the Bingo area you know um with with our partners our other partners like the library and hopes and and true mentors we're able to do a program like this and that the goal is to have the city's involvement and I can't thank uh you know uh Jessica from the city uh from the recreation department for working with me for the eight months already on something like this and uh and I know I'm very disappointed we're not able to to run it uh this winter because this is exactly where the need it right they need a winter time to come and go and have a place to be um and I I am disappointed in it but I understand that there's this limited amount of space you know um our population in sports for our recck has grown um so as as I continue to to work alongside all of you and all of the members of of you know the city I I just really really want to make sure that my passion and my vision really comes true and I want to thank councilman uh cantero for for spare heading this and trying to set things up for for you for the next year and I hope by this time next year I'm saying hey thank you for approving this and having our teams have a place to be during the winter months so thank you and by the way yeah we got to get that other commissioner out the out the Housing Authority for sure okay thank you bye Manny Rivera good evening council president good evening Council in Le of time I will thank you although I want to do it but I will yield back even though these these um the things that I was going to ask by line by line are important and do deserve serious discussion but in Le of time Council vice president I will yield back thank you Manny CHR miror is that it motion close the public portion this is this is agenda only this is agenda only stuff yes oh motion motion motion I thought Lewis didn't talk on agenda items council president we're going to um sorry council members we're going to pull agenda items you're right T1 that's it T1 yeah and that's what I'm called anyone else my nickname I'm going to pull A1 and E4 as well just for a vote I'm sorry it A1 and E4 for a vote anything else Mr Fino on the consent agenda mrko yes Mr d i abstain on A5 and CD4 and yes on the rest I'll give that to you J Miss fiser yes G Tino yes Mr Cano I Mr Ramos I sorry Mr Russo I on A1 uh just briefly I just wanted to pull this for for quick discussion it's not that I I don't support it I most certainly do support it but I do want to remind my Council colleagues in the administration that when we were asked to vote on uh the salaries for our Chiefs both in the police department and the fire department I made a quick statement to say that we should not forget the rank and file we should not leave them out in these discussions and I know there's been a back and forth with the uh with the fire department when it comes to the tiered system that uh is currently in place and this although it's only one year to get everybody in line this is uh this is something that actually increases that differential between the tiers so I am going to vote on it for tonight um just because I think it's important that we do exactly that and get everybody on the same schedule um but I will remind everybody again please in the next negotiations we really need to start to keep our Rank and file in mind when we're talking about these contract negotiations so on that um on A1 just one more I want to sorry counc yeah the same point you were just making councilman uh with regards to A1 the tiered system uh I think we mentioned it in the past uh my I'm my teachers union at one point in time we did have a we we we adopted or tier system was adopted in our contract negotiations I did not support that but other members did and it had a negative uh impact on Morale on Staffing and other issues uh throughout our district and I could start seeing that happening now in our fire department so the the sooner we get away from this tier uh system uh I think the better off our morale and our overall safety and wellbeing of fire department will be so hopefully in future negotiations we could uh try and remedy that thank you any other comments Mr finina please call a vote on A1 Mr conen hi the FCO yes I M Fisher yes M gtino yes Mr guo I Mr Ramos hi Mr Russo hi president Jabor yes uh to E4 I believe and this is just for a vote any council members who wish to comment yeah council president I just pulled this for a vote just um I can't good and cautious uh vote on this until we explore all the options that church s for to be clear this is just for phase one I think we've repeated this a few times but for the the sake of the record this is just for the sake of the playground improvements it does not negate the possibility of the additional options that were discussed tonight any additional council member comments Mr finina please call the vote on e4 Mr con I E4 Mr Cohen I sorry Fusco yes Mr Doyle i m fiser yes Gan Tino yes Mr Cano hi Mr Ramos no Mr Russo no president Jabor yes T1 to councilman Fischer y um so this is the um Professional Services contract for a curbside management action plan and I spoke with um um director sharp today the long story because I talked for 20 minutes straight um is I I I think where this is lacking although I support everything that this Endeavors to do where it's lacking is that it's not doing an analysis actually of the parking needs um in the community not only residential parking needs um but also commercial um and Retail and Etc parking needs or educational parking needs and so when we talk about curbside management the starting point is where we are today and potentially eliminating parking spaces to accommodate other uses which again conceptually I'm totally on board to have that conversation but I think it's an incomplete conversation without having this also include that type of analysis we um you know we talk about the parking um constraints within the city all the time but we have never really had that robot bus conversation on um the just the real parking needs and it comes up with HBA it comes up with our businesses it comes up with residents so when I spoke with um Dr Sharp earlier today he's encouraging voting on this um we we had talked about making it conditioned on a future um I think what you wrote back was um just requesting a future as opposed to actually being tied to a contract and that doesn't surprise me just because I know how the rules work yeah that's deferring to corporation counsil on on the structure and format of that I think that yeah go ahead or or we could just add a condition and the mayor can decide want to negotiate in like we can vote on a condition mayor can always the mayor can always just it doesn't have to be an up or down vote it could say here we want to add changes from our end mayor can decide to negotiate those in or not it's the same thing so I think I mean I guess I would say it's not enforceable right right yeah you can vote on it it's the right it's the equivalent of a no unless the mayor is okay going back and negotiating it right and so um it's just a subtlety I just you know this this potentially has an opportunity to be great plan for Hoboken but as currently it's going to be a plan that we can't Implement because I as I said to Ryan we've historically not had political will of this mayor or anyone on the city or enough people on the city council to make major changes to remove parking from our streets right and and I think we're I think we're all open to that idea if we can just say where do cars go go then right like where do where where can we accommodate them where where do our bit you know we we gave an example uh we were talking about earlier you know we don't have a cap on parklets so imagine if like the 3 block of Washington right we have a zillion restaurants food uses Etc if every single one of those restaurants wants to take parking to put a parklet in we now have an entire city block in our commercial District that doesn't have parking for all of the other uses and and you know I I was on Washington Street today I parked two blocks away from the store that I wanted to go to um so it's it has that Rippling effect and so like just understanding what what our parking needs are we're an occupied City with 60,000 people we know that we have whatever 15,000 is parking permits for our 10,000 spaces 10,000 now 10,000 permits good well that's good um but but understanding I got one today 10,000 in one all right but but the point just being we have an opportunity to have a very robust curbside management that's tied in with a real analysis of the parking needs of the community that may come out and recommend more parking different parking you know better programs to get people to park in garages better use of our commercial garages better use of you know the residential buildings that we build that we require part working in um we require the people to actually use those spaces I've said this before I'm the worst offender right I rent a space two doors two blocks down for my building and I park on the street if there's a spot available well maybe we should make restrictions or make it more expensive for people that do have you know parking garages but just having that conversation so I know they want to for budgeting reasons you know this is 220,000 in this year's budget that they want to use they don't want it to be 300,000 in the next year's budget budget so we talked about making a condition to this contract that just says um a condition to this is having an expansion of the scope be just in January it will cost more right but we can also talk to the HBA this is a priority of the HBA to do a parking analysis as well and then what we get is actually a really great you know fully comprehensive study that addresses a lot you know issues that you've perking you we've talked about this and it it makes all of our bike people that hate parking unhappy and it you know and this will make the parking people unhappy so when everyone's just a little unhappy and everyone's a little bit happy like that's the right outcome for what is a difficult you know situation so I'm not going to force it but if people were open to that we can put a condition in it that just says it's condition on um just expanding a scope that is more detailed parking analysis we can do that if people are okay and if you're not we can vote on it I won't vote Yes as is unless there's something that gives a nod to a robust parking analysis and and that's it C council president what would what would that look like for you what would that how would you kind of make that amendment to to let that read the way you're trying to I think the resolution just says we support this conditioned on an expanded scope that would be a approved in the next so this this wouldn't be actionable until that next one in January is um and I think you had like lighter convers and even if you want to do it lighter and just kind of have a public commitment to requesting the scope I think that is what the language that you put in um but that you know we're just requesting and and he's already spoken to kimley Horn about it so it's not he spoke he did a lot of work on this day he spoke with Corporation counsel um and I just and and even just doing something like that putting something in the resolution you know whereas the city council is requesting for you know this to be a complete project that um the scope is expanded in January of 2024 so maybe not making it conditioned but just making it in public I mean if the eight of us are coming back here in January and we have director Sharp's commitment to that can we all have a collegial agreement that we will ensure that that happens going into 2024 um I don't think anyone thinks that's a bad idea I'm just saying I don't think it's controversial in that sense if we're all committed to ensuring that that's something that we take on for 2024 I mean if that's the way people want to do it could I could I just I mean if we added a simple Warehouse Clause would it would it would you be opposed to that or no so can can we just add that simple whereas Clause as a as a I would say you can add it as an encouragement but not as a condition if you know what I'm saying it can't be conditional said but but I think what she's trying to achieve is she wants to memorialize that in this resolution to say look we're working to to try to achieve this additional goal and I think it does that with a warehouse clause and I don't want to speak for you no no it's fine as a total compromise that's totally fine I just want to make sure everyone's okay with that like it's a if philosophically you're not and you're okay just doing curbside management you know we've we've we had we talked about this today right we had one one one meeting in probably 7 years a public meeting on potentially putting a protected bike lane on an existing Street and thinking about curbside management differently we had about a hundred people there the mayor left early people were screaming they left you know Ryan like threw him to the Wolves there may have been two people there that didn't even want to say anything but like people people are angry um on this topic because of parking right and and so let's just have it let's just you know we just had an and and this is this is the reality of politics we just had a big election right like let's do this right now when we can really focus on policy not worry about the next election right away like let's just rip the effing band sorry the Band-Aid I didn't say it I just referred to it but let's just RI let's rip the Band-Aid and let's have this great complete analysis so we can tackle and even supporting like the it makes it easier to support the $40 million of work at the Midtown garage because we know we need those parking spaces right so it lets us do both and it lets us talk about the but I'm looking at Phil uh councilman Cohen like it lets us talk about the bike Lanes you know on Washington Street or putting you know gen likes gtino likes uh loading zones on blocks like it lets us talk about all of that but it lets us talk in the context of what else should we be doing thinking about like parking initiatives for the the reality is a lot of people that have cars so yeah I just want to clarify one point I think you summarized that well but you know the the the original scope that's on the agenda tonight I is is is not intended in any way shape or form to focus on removing parking or uh you know building all kinds of protected bike Lanes in lie of parking spaces there is a small bike lane component to the plan uh and and the the rationale behind that was that in the past we've looked at uh kind of planning for protected bike facilities in Hoboken kind of in a vacuum a little bit right it's it's a it's a bike uh oriented goal or vision and there's nothing inherently wrong with that but uh you know I think in Hoboken it's more useful to have a discussion about a protected bike lane network uh in a holistic way where we're also including other curbside manager agement regulations and stakeholder groups right and so that's the goal of this plan is to try to get all of these things put together right some of them are competing some of them complement each other y um but we don't have a a plan right every single council meeting we have a new loading zone on the agenda a new reserved Ada space um you know we've talked about uh actually getting concrete data on uh parking occupancy right in our business districts for example we're trying to achieve a certain percentage uh looking at what our turnover actually actually looks like um so all these things e even down to redesigning our our signage is in this plan uh but I do agree with you we had a great discussion earlier that it could go even further and this was intended to be kind of step one and and and can be in many ways step one for for for additional jump offs right like we could have a separate study once we get this foundational data um on uh enhancing our parking permit program which has been the same for 20 plus years right um we know we oversell our permits and what what does that look like well we need to have a foundation first and so I think you get that with a curbside management plan and then with some additional scope that we talked about you know that definitely will add uh another element that will give us more information uh as well so I don't have any objection to that um just to be clear but I also wanted to to be clear about what the current scope uh includes or doesn't include so thank you director director but but in included and what we have here does include public engagement and Outreach absolutely two Community meetings uh stakeholder meetings two public surveys online community engagement Hub that's all part of this so correct so while it may not cover everything it it certainly intends to have Community engagement that'll be active absolutely I mean that's critical to this plan being actionable as you said you use that word and I agree um you know the most actionable plan that we're going to get here is a plan that has a lot of public Outreach um and Community feedback and collaboration with city council um and the HBA will be a critical partner right so um we have lots of stakeholder groups and you know I think it's it's it's an ambitious plan it will be even more ambitious when we add this additional scope uh but I look forward to it I look forward to the challenge I think it's it's overdue really for Hoboken um to kind of have this really comprehensive plan that looks at how we uh regulate our curbside um and and deal with these challenges in our community with you know access of all sorts and and parking certainly you know on street and off street so can I just a a followup if you are guessing what percentage of our curb site right now is used for parking 95% so 95% of our curbs are used for parking yet we're not doing a needs analysis for parking as part of this that's all I'm saying is just doing expanding this to just say like how do you you know it's who's using it how are they using it you know what is the types of families individuals whatever that have cars you know are they parking on the street like for me a survey that says do you are do you have a spot in a parking garage are you parking on the street like really just understanding that right and and and it's not at all meant to take away like all the things that you just mentioned I think are great but it's it's in terms of foundation if we're talking about touching the our curbs that are currently 95% used by parking it just feels like we need to have an understanding of what those parking needs are before that 95 even though you're saying we're not talking about touching we are every time we do a loading zone we're taking three parking spots maybe away right maybe every time we do any other possible consideration for the use of whether it's a parklet whether it's EV charging stations Etc it's taking that at 95 down to 93 down to ' 92 without understanding the displacement of those cars where should they go should we be you know just where are they where should they go and are they having an impact on businesses on you know people's quality of life so that that to me is what it is it's just expanding what is already great and making a little bit better with better information so it would be just aware as Claus just request the scope get expanded in January and if everyone's okay we'll put it in all right I saw thumbs up let's do it I did happy holidays Mr F please call the vote on T1 as amended with the additional wehous clause and we can figure out the language specifically that I flco yes Mr Doyle I fer yes please dintino yeso hi Mr Ramos hi Mr Russo I want to know what it says no I'm only kidding I president you yes public portion public what and dra you're still here she's here okay yeah I it's not Mar onrea 1599 Street I first of all I must clarify speak speak through the chair to uh councilman defusco I don't know who he was addressing but um he used the word um against progress I I want to say for myself I'm not against progress I'm against what can be termed progress by some people can be termed detrimental and damaging to others so um each of us has our own issues with uh what is damaging and what is progress but a lot of progress can also be quite detrimental I'm here tonight to speak about something I've been meaning to talk about um uh speaking to Mr Cohen you uh mentioned in a letter uh Diane at 8 uh what's the number 31 Garden I mean 831 Garden I believe there's an L woman and she died um and she lived on the fifth floor and she I'm sorry Diana madis yeah di B Diane's her name I I'm I never met her but I met uh ruffy the first time because he was coming down the stairs and that's how I knew about it because Rusty is the my friend in that building and um the the point I'm trying to make is that in that building there's a B&B on the first floor now since Diana's been in that building had been in that building since 1966 her rent is either this number or the other it was either 300 or 500 understandably a lot of landlords never rais rents and there was a period of time when for years and years and years it went on that way so I don't fault that but the next tenant coming in can only get a 25% vacancy DEC control and any kind of improvements he puts on it so there's a there's an impetus to I mean there's a um decision by many of the owners to take these uh rents uh rental units and make them b&bs now I I'm trying to assertain what the laws in this town about b&bs is it legal is it not legal there doesn't seem to be any clarification on that and as a new Council coming in with new members I would hope and pray that you take care of this because what is happening to much to my shock I mean I try to keep a breast of everything um and I found out recently in the last few months that many of the buildings are being uh tenants are being kicked out for whatever reasons because they're stupid they don't understand the law they're young you know a lot of them um I didn't even know there was run control in this town when I first moved here but but the point is they are being used now for bmbs the entire building five units and uh if you live in a building with a B&B uh you have strangers from all walks of life coming up with uh suitcases who aren't aware that this is a uh building that you're supposed to be quiet at night doors when you slam and and it's also very dangerous for women I I know there is a two-tier thing here but you know when you're a woman I'm in a three-story building I know the people I take care of the building I mean you always kind of wonder who's coming in but I don't worry about that but if you have strangers coming in because it's a B&B you you you can't really take that for granted because uh particularly in rafy's building he's got bnbs and they want him out for whatever reason want and so you become he's a man it becomes dangerous and it also robs people of rental units because who in in the hell is going to rent out Diane's department for I don't know what the 250 you know 25% you know maybe if they get $800 I don't know what it could be but you're not going to want to do they're not going to want to do that so there is more more of these bnrs I mean bnbs happening and I think each and every one of you has got to really take it upon yourself to do something about this because we're already losing Apartments to tear downs we don't need to lose them to bnbs please cuz I know that fifth floor is going to be a B&B in that building and Russy will tell me thank you thank you Manny River Soler previt in case you forgot that's hello in Ukrainian council president when I uh yielded my time back I guess you weren't present I thought it was Mutual but anyway I will be quick um the master plan it needs to be relooked at there are things in it that um are being used by developers like a hammer again these developers that are um not in the best intentions for Hoboken um there are good ones again I I reiterate that um as the prior speaker was speaking airbnbs are running rampid and the new developments um that are coming in are somehow um getting one bedroom apartments which is again in a code and and has to be with uh uh the master plan plan or things that are are interested with the um municipality um to make uh it more affordable but it turns out to be the intention is good but the outcome isn't the best so uh those are things that that are very very important to be looked upon in the next iteration of this Council which by the way this outgoing one uh pretty good pretty good I'm going to give it a a B+ uh which is uh I'm sure other people would disagree but I give you that so I'm going to let my end of your Roundup go again it's again a lot of things that that should be looked at um I appreciate um the council for uh allowing me to speak this throughout this whole year council president your tenure um again you get a B+ um I could have given you an a i i shouldn't be a grinch um but I will um forego it and I would expect that next year with a new member again not not that the outgoing member was shabby but the new member with his commitment to the people um and the voters that elected him uh councilman-elect president Zano I expect and I hope and I know that it is true that you will be a councilman that would be at the disposal of your constituents and they are sure as I will thank you for next year and will welcome you to the council and council president with this I will say a quickly um again just so that you don't uh uh leave out anything bonal Fel na Fel Fiesta Jo no and that means of course Merry Christmas and to all and I don't know if you noticed I had changed my tie my tie was changed for our sister city and solidarity so no one continues to forget M meloo Ukraine so we should always strive to again unite in good like I mentioned in last meeting for all of us to be great stewards of our city and great stewards of our state and our country so that we are an example to our sister city of Ukraine and everywhere so then thank you all Slava Ukraine God bless you council president and God bless Hoboken thank you thank you Manny thank Manny Manny do we get to to get to uh give you a grade too Lauren you Lauren did you sign want okay I saw you stand up before Haney on Med Haney just real quick uh just wanted to thank you council president Council vice president for serving uh the entire year uh for all the elected officials it's not an easy job I know you go through day in day out um and it's never easy uh councilman defusco thank you for your service service eight years and God knows how many years on a zoning board uh you you served it respectfully uh represented all different parts of the city at all different times and also uh your efforts to run Citywide also for mayor happy Holidays happy Hanukkah thank you all thanks thank you council president there no more members of the public signed up to speak motion to close public all in favor council president yes Council vice president um I'm I'm still going to ask to go into close session about 83 I I think it's important that we talk about it because there's potentially a lot of money on the line here if in fact we can't um so you motioning for a Clos session yes motion going to close session Jerry could you please call the vote on motion for Clos uh sorry anyone wish to second okay councilman R seconded all right councilman Cohen to go into close session no councilman defusco no councilman Doyle I councilwoman fiser no councilwoman gtino no councilman cantero no councilman Ramos I councilman Russo I council president no motion to close council president excuse me ition on the table excuse me there's a motion on the table I have something on that I need to put on the record I'm sorry council president this is potentially half a million to a million do we had a professional bound the bound insurance carrier and now we are potentially going to lose a half a million to a million dollars because we're not acting on something motion to close in a seconded already that's a disgrace that's a half a million to a million dollars cuz you want to get home 10 minutes early good night and C