##VIDEO ID:0kSYbI1jqOI## e e e e e e e e good evening everybody Welcome to the zoning board meeting of September 4th open1 and the regulations governing remote meetings mjac 539 1.5 I hereby announce that adequate notice and electronic notice of this meeting was provided in a notice dat January 14th 2023 that was sent to the asur par Press Two River Times posted on the bulletin board and on the main access door the town hall filed in the clerk's office and posted on the township website www.com roll roll call Mr Burl Mr bur Mr bur abent Miss campus campus here M Gart M Gart here Mr G here mrani here here Mr hon here here we're going to seat Mark for um the open position okay okay we're going to stand for pledge allegiance and then a moment of Silent to honor our military police and First Responders I pledge algi to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for stands Nation God indivisible liy jusice for all good evening good evening everybody um we're gonna change the agenda a little bit uh because we need our planner here today and she's uh backed up in traffic so we're going to go to item number two which is our zoning board annual report for 2023 draft one so who's got that information you do y okay so uh Marty do you want to talk about this or it's all mine right all right so every year at the end of the year we put together a bunch of items we actually have and you may have I don't know is it in the public have this in their agenda no no right they don't have this okay so what we do is we submit a report what yeah so we we submit a report to the township committee that uh talks about the hearings that we had during the year and sometimes we have recommendations that require change in an ordinance or suggested change and they discuss it and they decide whether they want to do it or not that's what we're going to do right now it's the annual report so um I think everybody has a copy of it so I don't think we're going to need to sit here and read every single item on it we could skip to the last page which is our suggestions or recommendations and um there's basically two of them and I don't know if anybody has anything else besides what we have on there or they want to modify what we wrote there um but I guess I'll read them out loud so the public can hear one of them is ordinance to change the gate height of 4T permitted when fence height can be up to 6t the height of the light fixture on the post is not to be included in the height of the post which should be in line with the gate height and the reason we've done that is we had numerous over the years applications where people are putting up gates in front their homes and their driveways and the ordinance says 4T and they usually have a column that supports the gate and it's higher than that and or a light fixture on top so we're suggesting that that get changed to eliminate all those uh variances so does anybody have any comments from the board on any of those and that the other item we have is add ordance for short-term rental example air andb so that one I don't remember that one who who made that suggestion up oh okay that's why to remember it so do you want to tell us what that's about we don't currently is this as are are you saying this as a zoning board officer if you want no I mean no I mean if that's because you have two hats obviously so so is this the zoning board hat that you're saying suggesting this okay okay okay anybody does anybody have any question on the first one uh you're suggesting that the fence height should be printed to be six feet high as well as having a height of a light fixture above that I'm having trouble understanding the way it's so the height of the gate now we say should allow to be 6t okay elim so we should and the post too and the post and the post too right but it doesn't say ordinance change the gate height pered to 6t is what you should be say when fence height can be up to 6t hyd like f that's fine I think you should add uh permitted and then add to to six feet right after permitted change the right do you want to send her an email with your suggestion and this is just a draft for comments and then she'll make a final one and we'll vote on it at the next meeting com any other comments or is there something that we might have forgotten to put on that list because put that will what they can so the question is well I guess it's up to whoever's coming up with the ordinance to figure out what they want to put in well that wouldn't be us that' be the township attorney will probably do some research and determine what other towns do and come up with something doesn't mean it's doesn't mean it's going to happen it's just a suggestion and recommendation anything else anything else that we might have left out from last year any of our professionals remember anything Bob do you remember anything okay okay all right all right we need to do a vote on this no right okay so okay so next time right all right so we still don't have Kate guess we have to wait to go into EX for a few minutes agenda Out start the hearing so everybody's out there waiting it's going to be five or 10 minutes at least before Kate gets here we're going to be upstairs probably 10 minutes you want to take a minute and talk about what the hearing is tonight and how it work so for the members of the public obviously when we get here we'll leave the agenda item it's just for the use bar aspect only to permit uh these uh uses medical uses in his Zone that currently does not permit that so it's not a site plan it's not the site plan they would have to come back if there was favorable action on it uh and all that would be then you know discussed and we' have to you know still obtain a vote on that at that time um so it's a bated application everybody who doesn't know what the is so they're just asking for the use at this point uh since it's not permitted and once that happens they'll come in and do full blown engineering plans with a site plan showing uh whatever they're going to propose at that time that's substantially similar to the concept that you know is before us tonight but we're not talking about site plan aspects tonight was talking about uh the use the potential to Grant or not Grant this you know medical use in a residential Zone and obviously the applicants here with his professionals uh and and they'll put on their case there's an obor's attorney here as well who has a witness at least one witness um obviously members of the public are here so all that will happen in due course as the applicant puts on its Witnesses uh when we're done up to the chair but we'll probably then open up to the public for questions as to that witness questions only and we'll do that as we go through the applicants Witnesses at that point uh when that presentation is finished whether it's tonight or a different meeting uh the objectors Council will come up and be able to present his witness or Witnesses again they'll be able to be cross-examine it after they're finished and uh at that point that will'll open up the public comment when everything's finished which may be several meetings down the road I'm just guessing it's not going to be tonight pretty sure it's not yes we will end the meeting promptly at 9 o00 wherever we are so if it's if we get I'll see how time goes and I'll see how the witnesses go and we may or may not have opportunity for the public to talk depending on how long their Witnesses are but what I'm going to try to do is since there's so many of you um each time the applicant's witness is finished we will open it up to public questions at that time hopefully shortly if takes longer it takes longer but at 9:00 it's going to be over and we'll journ into another meeting I don't think this is going to be a one meeting so this is just as he said as Marty said was our attorney this is for the use only okay here comes Kate all right all right don't bother okay so um we are now going to go oh yeah we got to put a motion motion to go into exact session session I move to go into exective session second second all in favor all in favor Voice v okay no we're going to let it run take the video yes video on recorder right e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for e e e e let me bring it up I'll bring it up thank you for being so patient uh we're going to begin in one second I just want to ask the board members and the applicant do you see anybody here that there may be a conflict with representing uh so we can have a correct representation Mark anybody no a a no conflict okay any other conflicts no no not the audience we're talking about the applicant okay okay so we're going to start off with Kate to give the applicant you guys yeah is everything okay with that can the applicant come up and sit down and we're going to start off with uh Kate our planner we'll talk a little bit about what this is all about give us a little introduction and then you guys will be able to begin assign here I'm assuming you want to put an objection on the record so if you want to do that quick notice and umil you sent an email out I we're fine with notice up but he sent Anil he was fine with notice and he wants to proceed but I'm assum you put an objection who you are who are you my name is attorne LA newey and I'm here of 122 roell owner road1 so the reason why asked heing that I approach our objection on the record is TW um first of all first of all on from July 16th 2024 I submitted a letter to the board copy to the applicant attorney copy to board attorney in which I raised numerous jurisdictional objections relating to proceeding with the application and they those took in essence to kind of cut to the chase really three forms number one was the public notice because notice is jurisdictional and it's determined whether it's tonight or three years from now that the notice is defective it nullifies all the proceedings and it essentially results in a do I believe it's very very important always as an officer report board attorney and member of communities in New Jersey to raise notice issues up front no one wants to get caught in those situations way down the road where ends up being a so I sent the notice out and I'll talk about the notice in one second issue was that I I rais having to do with the fact that this proceeds as a bated application so in New Jersey there's a bunch of case law that talks about when bifurcation is appropriate and when bifurcation is not appropriate and our position as set forth in our correspondence the board is that in this particular case this particular application bation where you're separating the use aspects of the application from the site plan and related aspects of the application is inappropriate and what the courts say is that when the issues are so intertwined so that the board is not fairly able to assess the use aspect of the case without looking at the accommodating site plan considerations in this case particularly because it's in a residential Zone big resal property next door you have buffering buffering storm water storm water certainly traffic certainly traffic Andress and egress the fact that the septic system is going to be placed within a couple feet of my client's property and I can go on and on I'm not going to is that in our in our opinion based on the case law that the site plan issues are so intertwined with the use issue and the appropriateness of the use on this particular property and as thec will explain later on one of the criteria for use VAR positive criteria is particular suitability of the site and what we say is how could you possibly as a board assess particular suitability of a site to a use when you haven't seen a site plan with all the accommodating elements that you would typically see for a majoral major s application that able as a board member to fully and Fa ass the proof for the use without also looking at what's the impact going to be on the site on the traffic on the on storm water on utilities lighting landscaping and the so that was number two number three we raised an issue about the fact that the application is incomplete in that in that um architectural architectural um Elations and plans were not provided to the board so that even for purposes of use that the board is not able to fully and see what the application is going to look like I actually provide in Ence uncolored rendering two vers of the medical office but there's no floor plan there's no architectural elevation that shows Heights and dimensions different east and west and so we believe also the appli get back to the notice and I'm sit down so Mr Aly sent him the letter he revised the notice he sent out a new noce for tonight's he problem is the problem is that even the new notice is defected for the following reasons number one if you're going if you're going to bate an application and it's under Section 76 m land even if a even if a board allows bation it says that it says that all the de variances need to be need to be handled if you're going to bif in the first portion of the bated application there are two use VAR requ this application d11 because use is not pered and also 55706 the height because the height in the r48 zone that's permed is a maximum of 35 ft and what is being proposed is 45t and if you're 10% um over the permitted height you have to apply for a D6 VAR andone anyone will tell you that oh no you don't need the D6 you already have the D1 that is not accurate as a matter of law I can say to any number appli sted new the application was for both D1 and D6 Rel for the for the in this case the applicant failed to notice for the D6 height application so if they're going to if you're going to proceed as a board on a basis we respect that you shouldn't you have to look at not just the D1 but also the D6 and notice they didn't notice for the D6 number two there's a reference in the notice I didn't see it in the I saw having to do with the site triang for another property the other property was referenced it's in middl town it's not home referenced by BL block Municipal manage law says that under Section 11 is that the notice needs to contain street address where that property is located that wasn't that wasn't included and I don't know and under the case law that talks about who you have to notice and when you have to notice including what's called case you have to notice properties with 200t of properties that are part of the application including properties that are ring on easement for their use in this case based on the notice the applicant is reliant on this Middle Town property for the use and they provide the lot block not the address but I don't believe that that's part of the application I don't believe that the owner of that property sign a consent to allow the application to proceed with that owner's consent and there's no notice as to where it's located and I'm not even sure I may be wrong on this and I will stand correctly to whether there was a property owners list of properties within 200 ft of that eement lot that should have been notified as to this application so you guys been very been very indulgent I rely on my letter okay so okay you want to go just quickly just set the table we have uh the Professionals of the board have taking all those issues we take them seriously so but we've looked at all them so the applicant council's here to he can defend his notice I I do know they did do a notice from Middletown for that property obviously the site trangle would be a condition but it's not part of the application per but they did notice from Middletown it's in his package um Kate will give her answer on the D6 question that you brought up uh and and from a board's perspective though we are we're okay with from my perspective we're okay with the notice is all the applicants counsil want to proceed and U and the bifurcation that was recommended to and I could just have two brief respon wait before let's try to get it into some sort of order here so what we'll do is before I even let Kate go I'm going to let you go but I want you to introduce yourself your and your applicant and then you could reut what he thank you and I'll be brief salvor alfery clear Jobe alfery and Jacobs on behalf of the applicant U just the case law on notice itself is very I'm going to condense it into something that's very simple and it simply says that the notice must contain sufficient details of the application that would inform the public of the nature of the application in a common sense manner such that an ordinary lay person can intelligently determine what the application is about that's basically what the law our notice clearly gives a lot of detail in terms of what we're asking for and it does describe the bifurcation um as as your board attorney indicates we did get a property list from Middletown for that property with the site triangle easement and noticed everyone within 200 ft of that property as well uh thirdly as it relates to the bifurcation this board has the power during a presentation of the application to determine whether you need sufficient information it's something you have to decide so if you say I want to see more details about storm waterer management I want to see more details about Landscaping you have the right to ask for that we have the right under the statute to present a bifurcated application and that's designed to save an applicate money rather than fully engineering a project before you even know if the use is approved um but again you have that discretion as the application is presented if you need information you can ask for it and we'll certainly provide it um in fact your engineer did ask for soil information during his review and we did provide that so so there has been some give and take with your board professionals um and then finally we did provide an architectural if you want a colored architectural we're not going to finish tonight we'd bring a color architectural so again whatever you decide you need during the course of the testimony uh we'll provide it and I'll um in terms of the uh D6 Kate was going to respond I and she and I have discussed this already in advance before we received the notice from Mr Sim so basically you're saying you feel very comfortable that your notice is okay and you're ready to proceed and there's no risk on your part there's always a risk you never know what the Court's going to do but we're we're comfortable okay Kate I will um I'm first address the questioni while while way is written particular is that standards are assigned to individual uses permitted such as this one there are no V standards there are other section buffers other General section of the that may apply but for example the typical standards in r48 distri apply only to single family churches libraries fires public utilities and museums there's also other standards for things like Farms um nursing homes public buildings so this requires A1 VAR use is not as part of the consideration of the D1 variant may obviously take into consideration all of the physical components of the that includes the height however there is no6 height Varan techically required there is no requirement for the r um I will note that this is mentioned in bottom of page two of my I provide con zoning comp the distri what that I mention is not required I would also that the last comment of my Etc so you know there is is not it's trear great thank you very much does the board have any questions of anybody up to now all right go ahead thank you so I'm going to introduce Drew piscatelli who's the principal of the applicant um and request that he be sworn in about the truth you got the our Professionals in you SAR to tell the about the TRU you got got the right hands okay so Drew um introduce yourself to the board please and advise the board what your affiliation is with this project okay uh again my name is Drew piscatelli I live at 16 hopbrook Lane here in Hell uh and my affiliation with this project is that I am the contract purchaser of the property uh which is contingent upon the approval of this project um it's interesting to note that uh I've been a developer for 35 years at this point and I've never been in front of this board on this side of the the ropes it's always been on the other side being a resident all these years and you know being a homel resident since the 60s uh has always been in the back of my mind something that I felt that I would never be here unless I felt I had a project that could be a contribution to the betterment of the residents of Hell Township um clearly in the last 50 some odd years I've seen a lot of Development I've seen the Farms that I've played on and hunted on into developments and you know that's progress and now my parents live in the same house that I grew up in over in country Woods on Rocky Top uh and this parcel that we're talking about actually you can see during the winter house our property is right on the our house is right on the Parkway and um this is something that is dear in my heart to bring to the betterment for the community for our aging residents um there's been a lot of development over the last 5 to 10 years of assisted livings congregate living for seniors we have SL cering uh across the street from this parcel B hospital has been merged with Hack and Sack Meridian we have nursing homes down there assisted livings so the age of our residents has increased dramatically since I first moved in here um my parents are somewhat of the example that I use for why this project is needed by the residents of hell it's no secret my dad has a little bit of cancer and he goes over to SLO kering then he has to go for follow visits to doctors from SLO kering he's got to go down to Neptune he's got to go to driving all over the place that's not it's not a good situation for an 85y old man with cancer to be driving himself all over creation this is a logical site for this project uh I have taken great pains to come up with the concept and in my mind what I feel is a nice fit with the rural character that has and always had in the past the inspiration that I've used from the architectural standpoint has been the mansion over at Thompson Park I've looked at the house across the street from U Village School and those are the things that need to be brought into play when designing a project that I feel is worthy of homeown is this an efficient or having multiple buildings on a site and efficient it'd be great to have one glass monolithic building one elevator and one fire system and so forth I'm going to Great Lengths to have two buildings to make the character within the community uh clearly this is the first site that is seen when you come off the highway the parkway southbound at exit 114 and I feel that it should be of a certain character that let people know what hell is all about so I'm certainly proud to stand behind this project and when I've done other testimony in front of towns from Hudson County all the way down to Cumberland County I've always closed my arguments by saying I would be proud to live next to this project quite frankly quite frankly in this circumstance if things go according to plan my daughter goes to college in 3 years I'll be leaving the H house and moving back to Country and I will be living next door to this project and it's a project that's going to be within my family hope pass down for the subsequent home generations to my kids and when you see people out there managing and running this thing it's going to be me or my kids so this is a great project and I feel that it really contributes something worthwhile to the residents of of this great community of ours that we've been uh you know watching develop over the last some te years so thank you one of the questions raised in the plan report is to provide some testimony as to the types of medic sure so I have in my real estate portfolio I have roughly seven um medical projects some are like this I say simple because they're simply outpatient doctor offices or smaller low impact healthare communities other facilities I'm Sor other buildings are former hospitals huge 3 400,000 foot buildings with nursing homes surgery centers and so on and so forth this is going to be a simple I call it simple uh a simple medical office building where you'll have internal medicine doctors you have some cancer doctors you'll have all sorts of Physicians that would probably be affiliated with Salone kering and Hack and Sack Meridian I've been contacted um by a multitude of hospitals large practices that have an interest in coming here and I can tell you that I'd be more than happy to have any one of them uh you or multitudes of them occupy these buildings uh there will not be any facilities where people will be staying overnight or anything along those lines um it'll be as simple and I I just speak kind of figuratively in a Monday through Friday 9 to 5 type of operation uh you know whatever typical doctor's office hours there are okay that's nothing else have theant you have questions or certainly questions sure when did you purchase that I have not I have not purchased it I'm just the contract purchaser Mr Kiper right right other board members have questions okay okay so you you made a statement about the hours is that something that is going on the record or you're just saying that you're potentially looking from Monday through Friday 9 to 5:00 because there are doctors that have Saturday orice is correct that is correct and I'm not going on the record you know saying that these are going to be the hours but we're not look we're not looking for a 24hour Round the Clock situation I can say that for certain okay all right so at this point if the board members don't have any other questions I'm going to open it up to the public so we're oh go ahead Kate sure sure you I'm sorry go ahead umer toate that would not be anyes oper yes I would yes I would yes I subject to the discre as well the I just wanted to ask you know based on your experience with other um other facilities do idea about how many how many many yes um right right so so each each we're hoping put two buildings on the site um I would say that each building will more than likely contain no more than six uh practices per building uh within those practices though there can be a multitude of doctors that um share the practice uh for example Dr s might only be there on Mondays where you know Dr Drew was there on Tuesdays so where I might tell you this practice or you might see somebody come along that has 40 or 50 doctors in their practice they will all not be there on any one time correct correct correct and I will say that and I will say that we have been contacted by uh every major Hospital in New Jersey other than virtual for this site um that um my next question that depending on number of do are that's correct that's correct um you know there's only so many exam rooms there's only so many um reception counters so that would just be your typical I want to say skeleton crew but just your bare minimum don't forget doctors are under a lot of pressure financially now so they are trying to streamline become more efficient and cut down on the the number of staff that they have as we know in the hospitals the hospitals are now bringing in robots to talk to you um my dad had the stroke uh it was at at bore and in comes the uh the TV monitor and the doctor was from California so that's the way that's the way medicine's going just for the board lot of employ number okay Bob Bob you have any questions wait one second let me see if Bob has any comments questions okay go ahead yeah uh why did you pick a three story building over like a two why do you need um um maximum maximum uh efficiency square footage maximization Financial feasibility uh when I went to look at the uh Thompson Park Mansion um they have buried their third floor in the roof line um so I just come up with what was typical of that but it's it's mostly for uh Financial feasibility andic for the doctors to have the ability to let's say on the ground floor have um patient access or the upper floors might be more of the uh administrative office and so forth which would not be accessible by um the patient field Hospital bore a lot of the office build to be yeah they were much older um I think Henry West built a lot of those late 70s early 80s um but yeah that's true my other buildings that I own um actually uh of the seven I think there's only one that's a twostory everything is uh three or three to five stories any other board questions we can still ask questions later on so here okay so now this is a difficult part so the public will get to ask questions so you have to restrain yourselves not to make a comment comments will be at the end of the hearing you can say whatever you want at the end of the hearing but right now you're going to ask the applicant a question on his testimony and if you go deviate from that I might have to cut you off Jason's going to be my timekeeper he'll give you a 15 second warning for the 3 minutes I don't know how many people are going to speak tonight but I'm going to ask for a show hands who's going to want ask questions so we can get an idea so three people okay maybe maybe we'll give you an extra minute or so so okay go ahead who wants to go first ladies first miss you would you go first come up and come up and say your name where you live I'm very curious about I I just need a number how many cars how many cars we're going to have a traffic engineer who will provide I'm not sure he's qualified to answer that unless I don't I don't really know I can only tell you this that when when the experts of New Jersey wrote the traffic and parking requirements for medical there were much much more overzealous than we experience in the Practical world uh I have an entire 225,000 squ foot facility that uses about 47 parking spaces I have 5 Acres parking lot that's empty and chained off nobody drives to these facilities um like I said earlier the staff that would work at these facilities uh is a minimal number of Staff members because doctors are trying to get more efficient sure you go to the doctor like the rest of us you pull in you're there for your visit half hour 45 minutes and you leave so there will not be a tremendous um amount of traffic uh in and out that stays there uh for example uh so uh so I have I have I have um up in West Hudson in Carney 300 some odd, foot building with it own parking garage I think I've closed off five parking decks I think I have four closed off we don't use parking um uh Cumberland County milville uh that's another 200 and some odd thousand square fet and I have Acres of Park empty parking Acres uh venture to guess probably five acres worth of parking that's not even being used um Union I have the entire Five Points Corner um so that's a 400,000 plus plus facility um and even that which has drug and alcohol nursing homes um surgical facility is a full-fledged emergency room operated by Overlook Hospital even that we don't use all our parking so um I can only tell you that it's when you see what's in these volumes of books that the engineer experts have portrayed for decades uh in today's day and age it just doesn't really hold much in the in reality because it just doesn't get as much traffic as you would I guess soon uh I have I have one one of my buildings in Union roughly that size and that's like I said very very Internal Medicine um Internal Medicine pediatrician's office Dentistry Orthodontics um a vein center uh a child um Counseling Center if you will for uh those things but I'm envisioning every building having roughly six offices yeah yeah sure sure okay followup question go ahead question mention minimal stay that an hour so okay so and you keep talking about parking spaces but I'm listening to you and I'm not so sure I'd like to hear that somebody's going to be there for two hours rather than having in that two hours for five people through conc traffic congestion the other thing you mention people don't drive well this is home we don't have uh Transportation infrastructure to take people they are going to be drive otherwise they can't get to your building I'm sure most of the client I'm not going to say most but a lot of your clients aren't coming from across the street okay they're going to come from all over not going to cause trips it will it will definitely will umg also don't forget though concern sure sure sure I can tell you that you know there will be you know there will be trips going through there like my dad he he takes Uber you know he comes from country Woods he Ubers over to uh SL cering you know mile and then he U Back I'm saying the car's not parked there the car drops him off and leaves parking but the traffic generation sure sure yeah sure okay another question from the audience come on up introduce yourself um my first question is because we have so much vac corporate office space uh in Hell currently and we're trying to figure out what to do with that did you look at the viability of existing office spaceus building funny you should ask um when Ralph Zucker was first looking at uh B works I was his first guy in the door uh looking at it and as you probably know the dle forward with him uh and as you can probably know as you've been visiting the building if you have been that the medical facilities have not had overwhelming success there um multiple doctors have moved into Bell works and uh have floundered and have since left um I believe there's only one doctor left in there who's a physical therapist um the Vonage property over by my house uh is being redeveloped right now um for some sort of Elder Care situation so when you look at those two projects that's where the overwhelming uh office space is vacant but around town there's not a whole lot for vacancies for vacancies and there may be yeah maybe I I'm giving you a little latitude with that one keep going you have another question in examin this location also at I did I did I did yes correct correct so what I'm wondering is what are people going to do for things like lunch or coffee or you know whatever people need deliveries how deliveries going to come in and out of this when we have roads that aren going accomodated wouldn't it be better to put something in the middle of town street where basically there are already things that could accommodate so I as again why you why would you choose this location there are other locations in the town that might be aate your traffic traffic um you have easy access in the property and off the property you have the gar State Parkway there Salone Kings across the street you have a church uh across the street um from this parcel uh that's the road can certainly accommodate the people and when you mention deliveries are you talking about like uh GrubHub deliveries or tractor trailer type of stuff medical facility we're not we're not we're not planning a medical facility we're talking about doctor's offices I'm not I'm not having a nursing home with you know laundry vehicles and that sort of thing resal supp this is basically corporate those I think you'd be surprised at how limited for example the surgery centers um people use their own personal vehicles uh that are the pharmaceutical reps that are the surgical supply reps they literally work out the trunk of their car um I have loading docks that I've ripped out of the buildings because they don't get used um you might be you might be you will be when Dr so so orders uh you know th syringes it's going to come from Medical Supply guy in probably out of his own personal vehicle so you're at four minutes you have any another quick question I could give you a little latitude okay thank you sure either and's traff to ask more detailed questions right and that's all going to be done during this portion of the application not after and'll proba and it'll probably be done after too but this time we're talking about this now okay okay any other questions from the audience oh Bob I'm sorry okay okay okay thank you thank you sir uh sir back the back I know you're because I know you're going to be longer I should hold you to three minutes too roades to the property uh you mentioned two buildings you mentioned 45 ft high can you give us any other uh concrete descriptions about what the buildings might be square footage uh perious surface coverage for all these parking lots that are required can you tell us more about what this is I'll I'll leave the parking materials up to the engineers but from the architectural standpoint each floor will be about 5,000 plus square feet um the uh Construction Construction of them we look we will look to certainly mimic some of the rural character uh Landmark buildings that we have here in home delegant I use Thompson Park as my my main reference I'm really curious to see what the the Mansion across the street from Village School looks like when it's all done being ripped up and put back together those are kind of the inspirational projects that I looked at specifically per floor that's 30,000 of space on this property in total seems like a lot it's not that's it your question I was just curious if we had we knew more about what these buildings were we willed concept buil engine will pres do what the is looking at that exact proposal not going to AAL office building what they come those going to be available for the public to see they will be presting it here and always available H it's onl thank you thank you you're welcome anybody else anybody else okay okay come on up try to keep it as brief as you can we're GNA give him five minutes I don't know we'll see we'll see how well put it this way at 9 o' it'll all end anyway so thank go ahead bunch of questions first of all regarding thiser Union what's the address of that property uh uh it's 1000 Galloping Hill Road that's count yes yes to even say that properly you aware whether the Physicians have evening hours or weekend hours I I don't have any Physicians uh lined up yet with letters of intent so I oh in Union um um well Union is a different uh animal uh because that's got impatience in it so that's a 24hour facility in Union actually it's actually it's a it's a campus uh if I can so so it's a c it's a campus but you said that the facility is going to be roughly the size of what is being proposed so there so there's let give you three addresses it's 1 10 20 and 1050 G so it's three buildings on the campus so of the smallest build of the two buildings that do not have inpatient facilities in them uh I believe there's only one night that has evening hours till about 7 or 8:00 and that's the uh PD tr's office we hours um uh I I don't believe there's any weekend hours thereal projects that includ offic those located besides Union uh uh the Union uh campus has the two individual building the other the other buildings are all um larger much larger buildings to this it's all all in the roof small small like that now with to with regard to this particular this particular um property property consider properties in home uh uh no not for this location enough for this enough for this project County for this project in this location no no and and with regard to com your comments earlier about you're getting a lot of contacts from almost every hospital for what purposes why are the hospitals all contacting the the overall uh inquiries inquiries have been for office space to free up facility space in the mothership for example SLO ketering uh would like to have more uh medical facility space in and they have just too many doctor offices so I'm envisioning again I'm assuming this that somebody like that would rent some office Bas from us for the doctors to have their actual office and then free up the office is in the mothership for for cancer treatment no don't own theer that's correct that's correct of intent the equivalent expressing written interest in a medical office facility on the site I might have I might have some emails I can look for at just phone calls and the like any tyal stud stud office no incorrect no incorrect I I did an extensive uh amount of research L loet coar going to the very ious projects uh going down by the hospital visiting those doctor's offices uh visiting over at uh Bright View to see what they were planning on doing there for their uh professionals to visit um speaking with um some folks at hackin sack Meridian at the the hospital level uh to see what their needs are uh and such aot a lot of leg work so um did any of that resal Zone that was never that was never brought up and are aware zes offic as right I'm aware I'm aware of uh several yes and um you investigate developing developing ra land retrofitting buying an office facility to I looked I looked at uh one building in particular that uh I think was on on the Haslet side of the uh the Border um to potentially do some medical offices there it's the it's the white buildings um that border up to the parkway kind of I guess west of bore did you put no it wasn't no it wasn't conducive uh there were um there were more there were more Condominiums uh so there was a uh only a couple were available for purchase but could tell us could tell us how many of office build no I don't know and M so you also also in your notice identify S triang one particular property you're aware of that I'm aware I'm aware of this yeah is that property a property that you own no no and so how did you who owns that prop I don't I don't recall off the top of my head and you receive re something in writing and writing that secure your s triangle rights for that property nothing in W nothing in writing no so what exent did you secure rights any to that proper purp of your s uh I don't know what you mean when you're saying secure no owner some some time ago yes and um what was the response to in I recall they are trying to develop that property as well and they felt that they too needed the same triangle that I would require so they said you know whatever we need to do they would uh take a look at it when we got closer to what our requirements would be not today as we speak noware as to that particular property whether subject at this point I think it is I think it is you know what the know the nature that litigation is uh believe it was a builder remedy uh lawsuit I'm not I don't know the details of it um are you are you aware of any did you did you do any type of investigation before going under our contract for this particular property as to expences that have been granted in the past by Board of adjustment pertaining to property in a resal z I did I did not and and you talked about the the Salone Memorial Salone cering uh used across the street that property is a middle correct I I believe it is yes you know anything about that property in terms of what Z no no thater service correct I'm sorry I'm sorry what service no I'm not thiser you're trying to sewer service area I believe we're trying to put septics in here so uh I don't know if there's sewers available to us or not and you're not aware you're not aware of any other develop while there's the church across the street there's the cing across the street um works is pretty recent all the I don't know how far break view is 35 but that's clearly a massive development I'm not aware where the Medical District boundaries are with to comments about nobody drives to these medical facilities um is that B on any type of study experience experience just your experience experience and observation correct and you those those obervations were you aware of how many people at that time were working remotely or otherwise I'm not I'm not sure I follow your question um um nothing just for the record you mentioned before you go back you mentioned who your clients were is it more than one person orent yes one just one person okay just want to make sure thank you uh just for clarification too when we get to the point to the point com get comments end sare speak speak for everyone else just so we complete the record pick it on anybody when we get to that point say that now okay miss you have a question yeah wa come up to the mic start this is just a question com no comments a question is g to end with a question Mar should try okay thank concern your question your question is it's okay for you to develop this and everything but you don't live there so when people come try to the parking on Med hille road is atrocious we all know that but you say it's not or it is it's not question question question you making comments then then okay then I'll wa till the comments okay but don't you have a question specifically you started saying you live behind him do you have a question with that I have concerns I have concerns that that's my house what are your concerns concerns ask him a question okay that's not a question so do you want to ask him a question about the architect you want to ask him something the way he looks that's a question I have a question com comments will be at the end if I if I could just interject to maybe to maybe appease your mind a little bit I walk the property I walk the property and I walk into your backyard I I don't know I I don't know I don't know if you're I wasn't in your backyard I was on the property no I I was in the back of your yard and I saw the trees that are that are currently there I don't know if they're on your property or or the subject property but to be to set your mind a little bit at ease uh I planned on putting a very large vegetative buffer between our property line in your property line probably Norway spruces that'll go to be 100t tall there be Rockefeller Christmas tree someday certainly you have the toll booth right in your backyard there which I'm sure you see the light and the noise and so forth from we will certainly be conscious of your yard any lighting that may shine towards your yard and certainly we would put as much of a buffer there as we possibly can save it for the end okay all right um I guess that's the end of the questions unless the board has any other questions or professionals any follow-up questions nope okay continue our engineer how long do you think his presentation will be the questions are going be well that's why I'm seeing what we're going to do about that all right we'll see how it goes then I don't know if you could tilt it enough so that it's kind of facing us and the audience a little bit before he start put that architectur up we didn't really use it but we should Mark that I think as yeah that's true we good point I did think of that is appropriate the arit no you can ask engineer yeah see where they're talking about when he starts talking about the map you can ask them what's that and then we're going to Mark you may as well Mark this way anything else or is that the only one there's two behind there mark all so we're done with that can you tell us as you're marking what each one is so we could put it down on the record certainly the first exhibit I have displayed here is titled aerial image 125 what letter is that that's a2re A2 okay I'll introduce hold on a second we're just doing that for the record we'll turn the photo over a little bit and A3 is going to be A3 is site rendering 125 to 127 okay now can you make them I don't know all of us will be able to see if you turn it almost even with the walls yeah parallel with the wall can you see it okay that's the that's the best we can do for the audience I'm sorry we're going to need to swear you in and have you qualified and then we'll begin your testimony I think we got copies of this anyway we w s e l o s i the gas station and and um we're seeking to have you qualified as a professional engineer in the state of New Jersey would you place your credentials on the record please sure I am a principal engineer sh Point engineering and licensed professional engineer state of New Jersey since 2010 my license is current and in good standing I provided testimony throughout throughout the state this well and board have any questions or Mr Simon have any questions on qualifications before we ask that you accept his credentials Bo members any questions okay accept thank you and your office um has been responsible preparing the variance or concept plan that's been submitted in support of this applications correct correct and you're also familiar with the property and the location of the property yes okay so go go ahead all right the first exhibit that I have presented for you this again is titled aerial image 125 to 127 Red Hill Road we' designated this exhibit image a relatively Zoom downal image of the subject property approximate center of the site also showing immediate surrounding area surrounding area as we know block 21 4.01 located within the R zone has primary Frontage soueast Red Hill Road which is also known as County 522 this road also forms part border and as we heard across Red Hill roading Center the Garden State Park off ramp exists to the immediate Northeast East to the Northwest resal properties to the Southwest exists a large resal describing some of the existing conditions on the subject property first those two lots created combined parel just over five it's a relatively clear open Field trees surrounding Topography of the generally Northwest to Southeast East excuse me which in this case is left to right we are in possession October 2022 njd pres ABS letter of interpretation inter this Loi confirms the absence of wetlands on the property and that no part of the property occurs a wetland transition transition area there are no on streams or ditches dit the property does yeah go ahead in the buffer area the where did they get get their um constraint constraints and areas to look to look at present they their evaluation I was not I was not then how would they know look in the of the the application that would have been made would for visited with ext and confirmed that no freshw transition occurred again on the property theer or off the property whose transition may have other if we the board recall prev had a lot of concern conc with environmental environmental ands wereing were was comfortable with had some ulties difficulties trying to get the the proper areas areas of the LOI of the LOI um um so so I mean it got based on iness it to have issue issue tot well how do we how do we answer that question that you just said from the engineer apparently they weren't present wer to is that something that you would want to be there is that what you're suggesting to have this meeting um I Environ Rel well wouldn't that be valid to bring that up now before we get to a point that we make a decision or not I mean I mean the applicant how do you how do you respond to Bob's comment I would offer I feel it's ger again mention that we have in our possession valid presence absence from the Department I heard you say that but what about his question that he's asking the the application that wased was administratively complet technically complete was issued I see no reason that the validity of that should continue to be challenged we could certainly in the interim try and get the backup of whatever was submitted in support of it um it was not done by this app was done by the property owner so PR dates that might be so how old is that how old is it l is what 2022 so it's relatively recent it's okay so do you want to work offline with our engineer as to this issue because obviously this is not going to be decided tonight but maybe you can come back with satisfying his concerns certainly and I I would also add having not been involved prior applications on this property thank you continue you have about another 10 minutes doesn't mean you can't continue with the next meeting moving then to my second this evening which is again titled sight rendering 125 to 127 Red Hill Road which we have designated as and and this site rendering how does this compare to the plan that was actually submitted in support of the application other read my mind this exhibit is a colorized rendering of the submitted variant plan with simply the addition of a conceptual Landscaping good sorry good no problem problem and what I'll do here is kind of walk the impr aster them enter s first and foremost from rad are anticipating 10 RightWay dedication to Mammoth County that dedication would bring our half with to 40 the Count's master of that RightWay dedic shown on the plan indicated by this diagonally hatched area foll the right and not withstanding the introduction by regarding the criteria Z looking at those criter factor that right into the criteria regarding the potential triangle on block 1045 middle briefly defer back to my prior ex so that s triang would occur again on that block and approxim it would Traverse generally in that man across the curve of the road the that dedication excuse me that side triangle Tri be based on 40 mph posted speed given a 45 design design spe the encroachment on that property up sure I I'll do my best better explanation myself but we generally look at asj criteria for determining the required triang based primarily on also factors that are sometimes type ofic using the roadway slopes of that road things of that nature but the purpose is so that there is not growth that would impede visibility of traveling the traveling public that's correct once You' established the of that triangle triang you must make certain that you have a clear view to that end of triang triang clear line of sight line of sight yes and for our next that that yeah we would have to if if the board were to approve this application um we would have a condition of approval is we would have to obtain that site TR or we could not develop the pro certainly I can subm ahead of time yes yes yes as you may have heard earlier understand application may have been submitted regarding that proper proper should that be the case we must assume they would be required to provide the same RightWay dedication to the count which may eliminate that triang together I'm not aware of it's not it's just private developer okay continuing back exhibit a again getting red single driveway property's Southern corner corner that driveway is comprised of 3 122 wide Lanes we have one Ingress lane lane and then two separate left following the drive our 25 wide interior circulation from which you would access any of the available parking spes then the property two Resto medical office office builds each of those buildings those builds 4,996 foot footprint footprint three floors flis 14,880 floor area building each of the buildings are inally located the G State Parkway right minimize the view corridor rill Road maximize the setb to the adjacent resal agricultural proper properties the medical office use requires one parking space everyt gross FL th being required 198 pares on the plan that was submitted you count 191 9 by8 parking spes proposed within that number electric VES and ordin allows those spes to count for two thus bringing the total proposed Park to 199 spes and meeting the require requ also within that finally a ref andle enure is provided the re re off stand clarify appreciate appreciate no no so these are just we're really just talking technical Tech in terms of like the notice requir actual Varian you have aont you are what they are proposing and that Maye a similar concept so for example the resolution will state be approved any of would say that amount of so they cannot they Cann come be not come back anything because you're appr the plan concept for this specific not just medical office this concept office building on this property five to 10 five to 10 and if and if you want we're coming back either way so um I I think I think if we're coming back either wayal okay that 2 27 that's a day that's a this yearing our concern with that night is we probably won't have a full board I it's a tough night to have a meeting and I usually cook so wife yeah we're ready now um I can't do that I'm away too I'm on vacation yeah I December 4th de December 4th that's enough time for all of us to adjust our so um it we we'll take December 4th but if Accord if something opens up we'll Ren notice and come back if if possible I would advise that I am away that week December 4th um well we could if if we take September we could finish engineering you are you available September 18th yes into your point if it's simply engineering can we just do the engineering on September 18th finish get him finished get all the questions in and I'll have someone from my office cover the meeting I have yes major conflict twoe hearing all the way north in 18th of September I'm the yeah I I think and and it's and it's only limited to the one expert it's not like we're GNA we won't be doing traffic or planning it would just be engine theard reserve your time when we come back you can watch watch that that's more than fair that way yes that way the applicant would be limited on the 18 just to direct the engineer we reserve our cross future meeting I think that's and the balance of the public can ask questions so so yeah please announce that no one will receive further notice so there's no confusion at 7 p.m. correct thank you just one thing I would just respectfully asked that to the extent that the applicant um is going to be submitting additional material we provide you copies that just give us copies they get well the public talked about concerns yeah and we're and you did ask for a a couple of specific exhibits which we'll get in as quickly as possible um 10 days before is the E which is and and and he wanted to see side triangle you want to see a side triangle so we'll provide that as fast as possible yeah and we'll speak the okay thank you did we also want to reserve December yeah can we keep setember 4th say and we for the rest of the application but but you'll announ if assuming that works we'll have to announce that September 18th thank you sorry so keeping keep theth open of De Micha