##VIDEO ID:TYSZSJueGeg## e e e e e good evening every good evening everybody Francine call the meeting to order remote meeting njac 539 1.5 and hereby announce that adequate notice and electronic notice of this meeting was provided in a notice dated January 14th 2023 that was sent to the asbery Park Press Two River Times posted on the bulletin board and on the main access board to town hall filed in the clerk's office and posted on the Township's website www.com roll call roll call B Mr B campus [Music] campart here Mr Hut please raise rise rise for the Pledge of Allegiance and stand for a moment of silence to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all [Music] the moment of silence were for police First Responders and Military didn't say that okay okay tonight's hearing go ahead public hearing number two item one Zing Board of adjustment 2023 d10 Andrews Management Group LLC 125-127 Red Hill Road 4 and 4.01 off 40 Zone D1 use VAR applicationing D1 to constru in theal good evening this is a continuing hearing uh tonight from what I understand we're only going to be hearing from an engineer and uh questions for the engineer by the board the public is that correct right he couldn't make it good evening chairman members of the board Dante Aly on behalf of the applicant um as is it on hear me now so as Mr flegler stated um we are here seeking the board's approval but tonight we are having limited testimony with relation to engineering at the pre at the previous meeting on September 4th we started the engineering testimony um there were some comments and questions from the board and the boards professionals um we do have our engineer to provide testimony tonight um Mr uh Simon issued a letter on September 17th notifying the board and my office that he would not be in attendance tonight and reserve the right to uh cross my witness unfortunately um our my engineer will not be available on December 4th we will provide testimony from our traffic and planning professionals on that date and then we can have um a subsequent date set for cross with relation to um engineering or other other comments so wait your next date was December what the next meeting is December 4th that's when they're booked so then it may not be till next year then at that point the next hearing after that assuming you your obviously be yes oh yes we understand that we're not we're not objecting to that our engineer is not available that date that's that's why but we would like to continue with everything and provide Our Testimony with relation to planning and traffic at the December meeting but tonight is really limited just to the engineering finishing up the engineering testimony and addressing some of the board's comments and the professionals comments okay so without further Ado I'll have our engineer introduce himself have toar and you're you're so sworn from the last hearing as well as our professionals correct correct are there going to be copies for the board on this okay thank you this is a previous exhibit Mike well we want a paper copy this is the site trial so we're going to introduce a new exhibit what are we up toy I believe we left off at A3 could you just identify the exhibit to the board exhibit A4 exhibit A4 is titled SE triangle and where I start tonight as on comments and questions that were raised here two weeks ago before ially continue with my PR test you have um you have the small versions of that to distribute we do have handouts I know they were emailed ahead of time just because if we all have it then you could tilt a little bit more for the public thank so a12 and three are here that's correct A2 three four wait is this A1 over here no A4 this is A4 right A4 A4 is the one with the green grass right yeah it's the last no I don't think so I would begin first with resuming can you just turn that for a minute so the board yeah just so we can write on our paper what what exhibits letters are what so that's the last page so that's okay A4 go backwards and what was the one that you had before up A3 A3 okay A2 is the first page are okay now you can refer to we know what you're doing face it so the public could at least see what's going on thank you thank you okay take take thought I'd begin our discussion disc resuming the topic of the we had research copy ofation sub to and we had provided that to Mr shortly after I had a brief I felt that first that it was prepared by very reputable environmental fir second that the provided reference map ref included a screenshot of proper clearly indicating the which would have drawn the attention that they acceptably respected the prop I feel that feel that thorough of that application sufficient for confidence nature and had to turn yours on go ahead Bob Mr chair that's correct correct uh but I did have our Environ en group look at it and and they came back is valid way they their per their their um um reports reports and applications applications and um um fieldi valid W recognizes how it's done okay my other question design design of the the current plan that was that was my question that was my question thank you Mr B thank you Mr I would then continue into exhibit which is titled triangle exhibit what this exhibit is it shows the subject property improvements black and white andal lines G andly underlying and what I apologize difficult to see triangle depicted in good luck with that does it show better on the large than what we have here does the pink does the pink show up better on your copy than they could actually may be wor yeah because really it's almost but I I can discuss what this demonstrates so the site triangle that potentially impact Lot 12 middle is located on the opposite side of Red Hill Road andth again that easement is the result ofed triangle from the proposed now that EAS as we conceptually designed here with information available on this time demonstrates that there could be up to a 5ot approximate encroachment onto that problem however as I may testified to during the September 4 we understand that a application may have been town of mid if that's the case anticipate thatway the county would have been Reed would likely triangle our no questions on that matter storm man and for that I will refer back to so our preliminary plan two bio retention provided as terrestrial forested communities for the NJ best management practic man now given their locations and the approximate felt that it was design asthetically pleasing features with sufficient land which is why they're designed such syst you also notice that Central system is a potential system given that the site is approxim 5 acres in si two storm water are sufficient the 2 and2 AC maximum drainage area requ re the proposed locations you see here are sensible the site predominantly drain rear to front the systems would discharge connection to existing infrastructure pipes near the intersection of now per the USDA RCS surve are considered hydrologic as import which are considered well drain drain the prior soil investigation that was performed at theer consisted of seven soil profile pits and infiltration test the profile pits generally indicated a fair consistent seasonal high water table dep approximately and the majority of the performed infiltration test raled rates now as part of any subsequent forunate enough to submit we perform additional soil testing to ensure that adequate number of test the proposed storm in summary storm water system system Willet excuse me the state's requirements at including 2021 infrastructure R23 Inland flood protection protection rule moving on then to other utilities Mr chman Mr chairman for the information information inform information was [Music] because that the testim given is accurate the uh information information re re STM storm water was adequate site could accommodate the storm water um what you should also know is storm water storm water Detention Facility excuse me Upstream of the proped of the proposed sanitary sewer field so water quality aspect aspect of theorm storm water man would not be affected by prop proposed septic system are you going to speak on a septic at all I will very sure will very okay thank you Mr thank you Mr so touching on some of the other be serving first the development by public water connection to the existing New Jersy American within Red Hill second as the property obviously outside of the sewer service area each building would betic system the pr mention disc indicated which are suitable for again as part of any subsequent application perform additional test the area septic field to Ure separation to the and then finally gasc system um two two systems cannot be on one and I testimon add issue so that's correct and primarily here because gallage estimated fl86 typical understand understand is maxed out at 2000 that point you're allowed to submit your application Health Department dep jurisdic and it's generally LEL again in this Cas reded what we would have to do application State and J first for what the discharge system syst which I would say some analog the process of placing s into the super surf different process following re to the state which is a typicality SE system this for now where where you have the septic system is that the lowest part of the property is that why it's there yes that that is one of the is there any other area besides that area that you could have that at this time that's the ideal location any redesign any different location requireed I'm just concerned that it's right near the property of the other property below requirements for separation State rules help various dimensional requir flip through my is there any requirement how far from the property line the septic system can be that distance is only for commercial situation okay any comments any comments no no okay so the field the placehold ex are diens approxim 100 by 33 and that is a typical appropriate size flow that they would be how many G how many gallons is the tank the tank hasn't been designed has been designed this okay so the fields go before the tank no the tank would go no I know that but I mean as far as the design work you put the field over there but we don't know where the tank is going to go knowing that it's possible for the tank to go in various locations on the site as it's been designed that can be done later it's critical that thetic fields are proposed in an area that's note any pavement so was more critical to we had adequate space for field all right's you know what what trying to relate I don't have that your average home would generate possibly neighbor up to 300 so compare that to the antip here you can extra some EXT concerns of d is concerned con I understand you're conc the state and the county well process for this Ty so much are you going to speak about Landscaping too yes okay if finally the wrap up simply enough gas electric by new gas JCP moving on to our landscaping and buff guess first as you can seeon here it's our goal to main as much of the existing perimeter vegetation as as demonstrated on areas that you don't see shed in the light GRE which fall a bit short the property line demonstrate that that ex to the greatest should there be any tol trees are ever and again as part of we mayit this information further detailed formal landscap identify final location loc and regarding your section 30-4 buffers as the project is a nonr which a but a residential Zone Zone it requires a strip of land 20% average wi depth of a property proper so first if we consider lot dep or the buffer that would be provided the depth is calculated at 668 So 20% of that we require a buffer of 1336 now first we' provided distance of approximately 277t from the rear proper to the near Corner second we also have 140 from that same property to the nearest portion parking area park next if we consider with in the buffer bottom side to the Southwest taking an average Red Hill Road Frontage and property yields an average lock 306 20% of that yields for a required buffer 61.2 we've provided alwest proper buffer of approximately 66 from that Cur line and what we can also provide buffer 6 solid fence help with the screening and blocking headlights that drive a parking are and where would that fence be that fence can be along as much of the buffer as needed Southwest property line much of rear or Northwest to you keep using words as needed and surely is it definitely going to be running that whole length yes I'm just concerned with headlights on property owners Neighbors From the building yes and again as part of any application we would consider the angles of approaching and DEP vehicles to that Fen are provided we need to be to so it's going to be a solid fence like a stockade type okay so no light will go it's going to be what six feet high correct okay any comments any questions no everybody's good just to clarify are to put typ there I think that the opportunity I presume that he understands if we're talking about it that it's already there but if we need for it to be put down then then it should be put down I think should be part of the right but then they're obligated to follow whatever we approve if we approve anything right so to me that would be a key thing right and board members that that that neighbors are totally screened from headlights and comments on buffering it at the end of his presentation I reference my but I just wanted to just let the board OPP right yeah cuz I I was going to say that a few trees there is not a buffer to me you know you got to wait 20 years for them to grow meanwhile what do you do so putting yeah I know but but we're they're asking for a lot so we could you know ask for more right we wanted if we're going to pass this we need to make sure the neighbors are protected yes if we're going to pass that's understandable yeah well okay if you want to jump in at any time and talk about it rather than wait till later you can while it's fresh no because as he goes through each segment I think it's appropriate to for you professionals to comment on what he said yeah I mean and the% also that buffer between challeng obvious trees within the entire distance between those but there has to be something is sufficient whether that's a combination ofing and Landscaping as suggested so that's all the points that I wanted to there however I do think that you know like front yard where you have storm water Bas certainly certainly so first regarding the frontage along Road atast yes 45 ft from Red Hill Road right away after the right to the parking area Parkway 2 to that park again the Landscaping here primarily identif the Landscaping we would certain Street trees Park on either side in addition to theal landscap within the Bas K are you talking are you going to talk to them about parking at all or we're getting into the weeds getting into parking the amount no where they are and how they're located um words it's like that piece in the rear to me that should be moved towards the parkway further away from the residence I mean if you have a choice if we had a choice to put it someplace but I wondering why you put it there I was have question okay so I I'll let you handle it then I'm jumping go ahead go ahead Kate I'm sorry sorry yeah I think that know the fact that is the Landscaping front yard not sure not sure if that's technically you know it may Beed in there because it is a landscape Water Management feature um but I think you know that in order to have to show some kind of just really the same of thing especially just just that screen the parking understood any more parking because I have a qu questions on that unless I want Bob to go maybe he'll ask ask him and then I'll well a couple report we reviewed that traffic report and we agre that he may be able to eliminate some of that okay that's a different one go ahead open and conc system area okay I had I had a little different idea I'm trying cuz I'm trying to reduce impact to neighbors so I'm thinking [Music] that well no what I was thinking of the whole row of parking that's by the septic facing the neighbors if that somehow could be split up uh making the driveway move further down and have the parking in the island instead so the lights are facing towards the building and the parking in the rear moving that closer to the parkway so it's not anywhere near that neighbor side that's what I'm you know to make this feasible for us it has to have the least amount of impact to a to a residential Zone Mr chair I would either am I I'm using common sensee standard specifically to this application Elsewhere for medical office is very high um even for medical office which is know int use people think it has been but it is high in I would suggest that you know I know this aivil testimony but they do have a traffic engineer who will be putting on his testimony and will address parking study because I think the best way to eliminate comfortable itce think we have and hear in the board's comments we can I'll I'll certainly um make sure our traffic engineer is aware of it and he's prepared to testify to that and one more that's probably not any requirement Anywhere But as an individual first responder for Ems for Homedale I'd like to see a spoted at to ambulance right between the two buildings where it's striped so that when I pull up there to a first a call which I'm sure if this gets approved we will be going there we can just back our ambulance up to the curb and curb has to be wider so that when the tires overlap it's the sidewalk we still have room behind so you let need maybe six to 8 feet from behind on the sidewalk which many buildings don't have it and there's nothing in any ordinance that says that accounted but being that I'm on the squad we deal with this every time we block the roadway nobody can get by blocking cars so understand pass it on to the appropriate people yes okay go ahead okay go ahead that concluded my direct t really okay um just before just touch on the Outside Agency approvals just to let the board understand exactly what we need outside of this board's approval sure uh first and foremost not that I would consider Outside Agency should we receive anyi approval we would obviously return to this board for site application uh in addition to that we be making application to M County planning board the ter Authority should they require appliation Freehold Soil Conservation District district and the aention sewer application state for this why St why State and not County because of the flow threshold Thresh cross the thresh county has okay that's it that's it yes okay professionals do you have any questions on anything that he said right I think they got that idea from all of us what we're trying to achieve we're certainly not opposed to less parking less parking and the location of where the parking is okay okay so if none of our board members have any questions comments anything going back to the easement because everybody seems to say there's something pending is there actually an application ping anybody Tri so for tri our property property no is there something strictly regarding property from which we would for their own benefit that I can't we our application no application in any capacity regarding at this time has something to say and the applicant does understand that if we if that I guess that site plan doesn't eventually go through we would require to get we would be required to get an Ean so the the best case scenario would be that site gets developed and there's a 10 foot you said 10 foot right of way negating the necessity of an easement worst would require us to get an easement from them if they do not have a site plan is that something that we would wait till it goes the next level would be a it would be a condition of approval yeah not for this part of the application for the next part if it happens and my question the State Board said was count state board for the septic system what exactly requesting or asking the state for approval for so essentially first we're asking for them to approve flow that we're propos with the means that we're proposing after we getal then you make the application full design of the actual syst so are you asking ex SE system no because site outside the SE service area into the SE it will strictly betic system on the property it's just a large setic system auth app so just to follow up on that question how do you determine what the flow rate is is there a formula for medical buildings and what type of medical they are you know doctor's office versus Labs they're doing testing on urine and other things yes the the flow thresholds for a variety of given are listed in the state setic regulations so you're meeting what part of that there is there name or something if you bear with me one moment I can dig through my notes to find that information feel free to continue no there I'm going to open it up to the public when we're all done I'm so I'm just trying to figure out like we don't know exactly if you have doctor's office or labs in there so what if that changes and you have more flow than what however you're calculating it so the and then then what happens the flow criteria category that we're using is is simply commercially used that's listed as either 15 Gall per day or12 gallons per day per square footage you extrapolate G per I think it was 18 so it doesn't account for how many people are going and coming from that it's all built into the factor that you multiply one or the other criteria okay seems an odd way to calculate that but that's what it is we can't question that well the state has certain standards that know this is probably historical data that's how they came I mean you know I I could see having different types of uses in that building and they said doctor's office but whatever you have a lab where people are doing tests and Waters are running all day long in those labs why they have onot B okay all right all right we'll wait to see what happens with that okay any other questions from our board okay okay we'll open it up to the public raise your hand and we'll call you up name address and your questions and it's only on what we heard tonight nothing in the past come on up ma'am do we need to return our microphone yeah yeah put put the mic back on there if you can hi I'm Regina Stephanie I live at Road um in the country Woods Woods kind of in the area devel my question is try to gain understand the entrance going to be entrance going to be okay the parkway the park is over there is over there okay how many offic refresh how many off two build each building so this time it's two buildings each building is three stories and each building contains a total square footage of 14,880 Ft the actual outfit of each building isn't deter oh because the last Flo correct and two two two to each Flor two to each floor whether they're Labs or offices so that would be 12 remember corre the applicant may have testified to potential out of testified to wasn't particular not F out testified that each building may contain practices um and you know doctors will be sharing the space and that it's not necessarily going to be two practices per floor because Upp Flo the office something of that nature but again this is not something that the board us to hold into that um um where I'm trying to gain try understand I where the where are the leing fields going the two boxes that you see here all right that's that's itk you thank you ma'am thank you anybody anybody else have a question yes come on yes come on up Miss oh she's got a paper list of them good evening I'm har live country Woods neighbor right next don't water water they use well water that's my first question okay just described to my neighbor where theing fields are right um I guess south of that there are two barns located right by those barns there too so um the two Wells that are that are right there that's just has that that taken into account those are very good questions that is a very good question full design of these septic systems has not C but excellent point the state lies out various dimens separation requirs one of which ising field well during our subsequent design we would have to Ure all of those separations are so what's the requirement off the top of your head do you have it somewhere I'm just curious it's maybe it's going uphill and then have to get pumps you can ask that question can you put on the other side ra PPS go ahead this is not a good idea so believe the separation field 100 ft so hypo so hypothetically would it be feasible if you were to move those two leaching Fields pass where the two buildings you move everything down a bit and move the two leing Fields closer to the parkway it wouldn't impact the Neighbors at all is that possible plan redesign it may be possible we have to topography it would be a burden to us to identify theer imagine correct apart from there's no h all the homes are and West right I I I concur with Jason um you may need to put pumps or whatever but I I could see the septic field being on each side of the building in against the parkway because having somebody's well where they are 100t would bother me I I don't care if that's what the Board of Health says you know you're talking about LIF stopping people drinking water I wouldn't want to be downhill from that I'm sure everybody here on the board would agree with that including including our engineer for the record for the record that's correct than and just because I'm asking this questions it doesn't mean that we're going to say yes to this application but it's part of our decision making just so everybody understands that in the audience Mr buo do you have any concerns about theing Fields being that close to the drinking water water wells yes and um again s that all be taken into account thank you I also have question where was was a res where was I assume hadp where was their on that proper located located and did they use water it waser imagine proxity okay but I'd be interested who well he can't test he's going to have to testify whoever that is yeah he can't did he but no he he can't he's testif oh he's telling him Dante so we're gonna have Dante Dante Dante we'll just have you we're not we said we're not GNA do any Witnesses so I don't want to bring any new Witnesses because I promised Mr Simon we wouldn't I have that be an issue so need two minute break you need a break take a break and go outside and discuss it and come back and tell us the answer know where it was located how large it was that septic field when the res I know minute one minute all right all right you're working on that one should I ask another public to I'll take can I have a minute yeah you have a minute is there anybody else that will be coming up for a question just curious let's see nobody else nobody else okay okay I think you're right got go ahead uh so at the next meeting we'll have an exhibit with relation to um Fran you listening is answering you at the next meeting which is hopefully December 4th um we will have a an exhibit to present to the board which will have more information than my what I'm going to give you right now which is um it was approximately 300 gallons and it was closer to the parkway so we'll have actual documentation to show and give a little bit more um color to what what I just yeah you probably had to if you buried it and you clean took it out he had to give you something not to you but to somebody you hear that yes yes we could show that okay right all right uh anybody else from the public last call board members you have any other questions comments go ahead John uh regarding the leeching field aside from the issue that was just uh discussed about the concern about about the leaching field being too close to wellwater are there any other potential problems for environmental for neighbors or otherwise that could be caused by the leing field that you looked that you looked into no not that not that we're aware excuse me design design as it's currently presented keep in mind keep in mind as testified any any design with relation to the septic systems would be subject to State approval okay all right if there's nothing the enti the entirety of the system yes set I have another question that the uh the neighbor that came up and made that comment about the drinking water and well water is there a possibility that you can find out where that is exactly and Market on some plan so we know where that is in relation to the field yes there are yes there are some databases that exist for which we can make an Oprah request and and see what results are available okay so that would be for the next meeting you put that that would be on some paper plan or someplace yes yes okay all right all right uh I don't think there's anything else at this point anybody else has anything otherwise I'll ask Francine I mean Francine I'll ask yes I'm I'm losing it Courtney for uh another date I so the two largely open items we have are the buffering what type of buffering is going to go along the property lines where the parking lot is and how high that's going to be with regards to lighting from car lights whatnot and then a lot of questions and open items on the septic systems and the possible redesign of moving those setic systems guess East I guess East and then finding out where the current well water is down here is there anything else that's open I I don't know Marty's been taking list or Bob you've been taking list I would just what do you guys have on your list I have I have kind broader context here which is that you know I spoke we first talk about the nature of VAR that you approve a concept but if the May back to the and I think that some of theing talking tonight cross the threshold from conditions of the to reduce the parking overall site plan may change a lot as part of the process to see you're appr you're the reloc of the system think especially with theer a large enough change that it should not just be a again getting Ahad of ourselves myself because want to he the traffic testimony before you do anything parking or make any of these big changes to the plan but I just I just want that to keep that in I think 100 10 foot set back that's something that is that's part of the concept in my opinion that's something that can't just be I get what you're saying but the way I look at it is they came in because they want to not go through the expense of going through the whole application if the board doesn't want to go forward we would we would save them Financial expense from proposing the whole complete plan so even though these things can be addressed at a later application if we did Grant this I'd like to know the answers ahead of time because to me I want to know it as a if we go to the next level no I'm saying that I'm saying that something to the exent ofing they were to they were to basically change the site plan change the concept site layout in a dramatic fashion or substantial fashion that's something this should oh yeah definitely yeah that's why that's why we're saying all these things looking at the buffer know where the parking lots are going to you want that well they get the idea from more comments exactly yeah we're certainly going to take them into consideration and see if if we can address the goal here is that if we approve it it has to be the least amount impact on the neighbors understandable okay all right well if there's nothing else Courtney we have another dat there any questions on what we just spoke about okay okay okay can't speak all right well take notes so you can tell your attorney okay okay Corney do we have another date watch the December December 4th nothing else is on that so they got the whole thing so that's uh are all your professionals going to be at that hearing again at on the December 4th meeting we will only have traffic and planning testimony so some of the comments that are mentioned tonight will not addressed at that meeting because our engineer will not be available so we will not be able to touch on buffering and that sort of thing but we will be able to provide again planning testimony and traffic testimony and add you and address any comments and concerns then um Mr Simon is not AA or Mr Sim will be available at that meeting um but for cross examination and obviously additional testimony with relation engineering we'll have to find another date okay and the last meeting of the year is December 18th is that open so tentatively that would be when the engineer would be back let us check our calendars really quick because that's the last meeting of the year otherwise then you're dealing with a whole new board and everything I don't know the I don't know the availability for our traffic or planner I know they're both available for the fourth I would love to not have multiple meetings but I I just don't want to say yes 18th and then I have to tell you all right so why don't you what do you want to do then we have to carry it to some meeting for go for the fourth and then if if they want to combine it with the put it all on the 18th we can switch it what happens St let's stay with the fourth for now yeah we have plenty of testimony for the fourth and then we can discuss about the 18th at that meeting Sim I don't know we're all right all right so we'll start with the fourth and we'll worry about the 18th later yes okay so just for the record so after the planner traffic do you have any other Witnesses besides your engineer coming back or no okay traffic traffic planner signment I don't think it's going to go that quick but if it does on the fourth and the questions are done if he has a witness he may talk to Courtney to see whether we should have your witness ready on that day as well I know we're still reserving another day for the engineer but if you're done quick we may want to get your witness on as well I mean to keep it flowing if it's if that person's not available please let Courtney know again prior to the court okay okay we don't want to have him sit here all meeting and not do anything you know that's courtesy to you but um if you're going to be not too long I don't think you're going to be that long no traffic and planning well I don't know if he questions if your traffic engineer is going to bring up some of the points we made tonight well I'll mention it to him so that he's prepared all right if that's that's it we're uh I think we're finished so can I have a motion to adjourn wait wait have to carry to the oh I'm sorry I didn't use the exact words okay we will be carrying this to the fourth without further notice yep December 4th can I have a motion to adjourn I'll second I'll second that motion to adjon Second thank you thank you chairman members of the board we do appreciate your time tonight thank you cor will do it a minute