all right and we are live this evening uh with Miss Falcone attending remotely uh Miss Paul Cho would you mind calling the meeting to order uh time is 7 o' and stand for the flag flag salute please 7 o' I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all in accordance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 PL 1975 this public body the hakan Board of Education hereby announces that the New Jersey Herald and the Daily Record have been notified by email that this board of education special meeting will take place at 7:00 p.m. on June 17 2024 at the hopac Board of Education board meeting room in the administration building will you roll call please Mr Falcone Schubert I'm sorry Mr Falcone I'll do that Jeff you notice I had didn't answer right didn't expect him to answer present Mr Deano present Dr Capello presid Mr citr here miss gulan here Mr chaffy here Mr Francis here miss paa here and Miss Falcone schuber here um so at this point in the agenda we will open up to public comment uh for items five and six on the agenda anyone from the public that would like to speak at this time come on joh say out into the audience I would like to welcome back Mr jusus and Mr fana thank you very much with that then we will close the uh public comment portion of the agenda uh item number five on the agenda let me explain it to you real briefly uh under New Jersey Law because of the state teacher shortage New Jersey enacted legislation under chapter 408 that allows retired teachers in critical need positions to return back to employment in a school district um without impacting their pension for a period of up to two years so the approval this evening is that we received a permission from the Sussex County Executive superintendent for critical needs in the area of math and Industrial Arts so tonight you're approving Mr juskus and Mr pada under that flexibility um this evening any questions on item five and item five only uh yeah I have a quick question uh the the salaries are they comparable to what they had when they left no so well their salaries are based on the haa neglect uh negotiated salary guide so Mr jusus is lower Mr Pat is pretty close um the additional savings here to us is that none neither one of them receive healthare because they receive healthare through the pension system and we there are no pension contributions that have to be made to this okay I anticipate um while this law will sunset I anticipate that there will be future conversations as part of a education task force that is attempting to address teacher shortages in New Jersey on a whole um there are areas in science in particular mathematics and some of the Career and Technical education areas that um school districts are very much struggling to find teachers and there are some other large school districts that are struggling to find teachers period it almost doesn't matter what certification area so um we'll keep an eye on that okay uh with that then can I get a motion on item five move it second item five moved by Mr Falcone second by Mr DeStefano Mr Falcone how do you vote Yes Mr DeStefano yes Dr Capello yes Mr citr yes is gulan yes Mr chaffy yes Mr Francis yes Miss paach yes Miss Falcone schuber yes thank you all right item six this evening is a resolution under newly enacted legislation um it is public law 24 uh chapter 13 it is known as the tax levy cap adjustment the legislature this year finally began to act on school districts under S2 that were suffering large Aid Cuts unfortunately for hop pakong the legislature decided to act in the very last year of the state aid Cuts because and I try not to inject politics into what we do but large numbers of school districts in Central and Southern New Jersey saw large state aid cuts for the very first time and politicians reacted to that each of the years that we lost state aid in Sussex County our local politicians got involved and they advocated for education but it really fell on deaf ears with Trenton and it wasn't until this year that the legislature decided to take action in the preceding four school years hakan burough schools have lost a little over $6 million in state aid this legislation allows school districts to recoup up to 9.9 % of their local tax levy for that lost state aid however the legislature is not appropriating additional money for that lost state aid they are turning around to the local taxpayers and the local taxpayers are responsible for absorbing those increases as part of our conversations and our look at this legislation our tax increase was 4% for the budget you previously struck that means that under this law which is valid for one budget year only and must be enacted or passed upon by the middle of July you could increase your taxes by an additional 5.9% the total is 9.9% just for one year for for this year only this is the only chance you would get to take advantage of this legislation but does it persist beyond that it becomes part of your local tax levy correct one year just but I mean was the the law only allows you this year to to enact it all right with that said that additional increase this board of education could recoup a little over $1.5 million of that6 million that was lost State a we have managed to balance our operating budget with two positions that were cut through attrition one retirement and the passing of one teacher um earlier in the school year allowed us to do things a little bit differently heading into next year that still required a tax increase you know that we went out for a referendum in September and that referendum Was Defeated for a large group of capital projects that are needed within the district as part of our conversation and committees and looking at what our needs are we scaled that referendum back to four projects High School roof Tulsa roof Middle School underground oil storage tank and the Durban Avenue underground oil storage tank those projects are about $9.9 million in estimated cost those projects include within that cost contingencies for cost overrun they include architectural and Engineering fees they include Bond counsel fees and they include any other environmental issues that may come up if we went out to a referendum in November for those projects the Board of Education subject to Department of Ed review would be eligible to receive 40% of those costs back so in simple straight term math a $10 million referendum approved by voters would allow the district to get 4 million of that cost back theoretically on that same information included in your packets is a bond tax analysis a five-year Bond borrowing that amount of money for the project would cover the cost of the projects for each of those 5 years so in theory the presentation for an revised budget tonight is put before you to increase taxes by that additional 1.5 million in the resolution the resolution specifically directs that the adjustment amount is designated for Capital Improvements and payments that money in your budget is put aside in a capital maintenance line item there are no other items in there there would be no transfers in or transfers out of that line item for transparency purposes to be able to show that this is how we would be able to take care of our needs if the board passes this increase and we go out for a referendum in November and the taxpayers vote no against the referendum the taxpayers would have to pay 100% % of the project cost the full 10 million we would have to take the $1.53 N million each year transfer it at the end of the budget year into capital reserve and save that money up for at least five years to have enough in our bank to be able to do the high school roof approvement and then each year after that one year of that Capital Improvement money to handle the Tulsa roof the middle School oil tank and the Durban oil tank basically what it would mean is you would not be able to start your projects for at least another five years in an Avenue where the facilities committee was briefed by our architect and our roof management company that those building roofs are in dire need of repairs it also means that waiting five additional years the cost of those projects is going to continue to grow right so this is today's dollars the Phoenix advisers Who provided you with the financial information for your September referendum provided this impact analysis for you as well a five-year Bond very different than mortgage interest rates and car loan rates and things that exist out there right now five-year Bond Municipal tax exempt bonds are 4% interest okay so we are for all intents and purposes debt-free and we have been for a very very long time the last Bond this District floated was 30 years ago when it constructed the new gymnasium and the tech centers those bonds have long been paid off all right so that is the proposal before you today as a way to try to ensure that we have the revenue necess for the Capital Improvements and notice that I said to you this is not for any new educational programs this is not for new classroom teachers this is simply what we need to do to keep our facilities up to date the referendum we put out last year in the $32 million range is not the full list of all of the capital projects that are included in our Capital plan that number is close to 60 million all right some of them are crucial some of them are Urgent some of them are important some of them are longer term costs but we have to be careful to continue to plan for the future that's what this attempt tonight is to do is to provide you with that information and then be able to go from there so let me open it up to board members for questions for comments on what it is we're looking at so that I can try and give you all of the potential information that you might need so the last interest quoted on the referendum from September was 4.5% right correct that was a that was a much longer Bond at a much larger amount so I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that smart school districts right do this very well where they'll roll money over money I think that's how mount got to where they are it's probably how a lot of schools got where they are so um you know something for all of us to think about right is is you know if we go shortterm and then if we try to go longterm or even shortterm the next time and we show all these Capital Improvements the tax burden could be actually Less on borrowing more money so um you know I know five years a long ways away but I just wanted to kind of I know probably everybody was thinking that so I might be stating the obvious but um hopefully the people that are listening and Jen that's here um you know just think you know not only just what's in front of us right but what where we're where we will be able to get if we can start acting in a phisically responsible way and you know borrowing money is not a bad thing right there's good debt and there's bad debt being debt free is doesn't really help anybody personally it doesn't help yourself doesn't help your credit score so there's there's there's good money and there's bad money so thanks Che I have a question um when you say the uh designation will be to Capital Improvement payments are you s are you suggesting that we use the monies we get from this 99.9% increase to pay off the bonds so that could be something that we could absolutely look at in this first year when you go out for referendum regardless of what you do your first Bond payment isn't going to be due until August of 2025 so the money that you borrow or the money that you raise this year would have to go to Capital Reserve at the end of our budget year that's where it would have to go can then can we modify can we modify the resolution specifically state that it's the intention of the board that all that these these additional monies be used to pay down the uh the bond debt assuming that they occur uh we can certainly look at absolutely no I want to change then look look at it means I'm not sure what that means look at it e we also can't guarantee the referendum is going to pass so saying it's going to be used for Capital Improvements allows us to be able to use it for Capital Improvements if the referendum doesn't pass and if it does pass then we could use it to pay for the referendum and certainly we could we could insert into the wording if there's a question for non-general operating costs um if that would if that would assuage any questions or concerns that board members might have okay when we put the when we put the referendum out can we word it so such that that we give them give the voters an understanding that we it's likely that we will be paying this off with existing monies so I mean I don't know if it it's feasible well here so here's here's the way it would it would be reflected they'll get 40% of the costs if they approve the referendum the public will absolutely do that and then it would be this the goal of this board the objective of this board to utilize tax increased co uh revenues to pay for those projects and those bonds well yeah but that I I what I'm concerned about is that we're put we're putting U we're we're we're raising taxes by 9.9% here and then if the referendum passes that's going to be another what 6% interest another 6% increase no so the goal here is we would then I'm not saying Yeah in our in our subsequent budget in our 25 26 year year budget we would have to delineate in that budget how those bonds would be paid for because the bonds aren't even going to be sold by the time we do our budget so this board could then look at it and say hey in our existing budget which includes 1.53 969 million we want to allocate this Revenue stream specifically for paying down our bonds and transfer it to that to that area is everyone on the board or is is anyone object to doing that no Noe no so you you would have to do that in your 26 bu but I'm that we're going to hit them with a 16% increase in taxes I don't know how you're get and for and for full transparency that's how I view this yeah right is 1.56 n million we're going out for referendum in the fall because the only way the state department of Ed will pay 40% is if we pass a referendum that's the only way the state will contribute of course I understand and if the referendum fails then 100% of the costs are on the taxpayers and we're only going to be able to use that money to go into capital reserve um the ultimate goal is to you know subsequent budget year say this is how we're going to pay for things and that's and hence that designation I'm just trying I'm just trying to make it easier for the for the uh yeah for the taxpayer to say oh it's not really going to cost me anything because and then vote positive for it correct correct and and you know in improving this year's budget this you couldn't tie the hands of a future board by putting it in this resolution that in two budget years that's how we're going to use the revenue right but I will tell you and I'm 100% comfortable going on record is saying as long as I am superintendent in this school district that is my plan and that's the budget that I will present to whatever board of education is here um that's very very important to me because the reality is this I would love it if the state just increased its allocation to cover these costs it's not going to and if we don't take some kind of action I don't know where we're going to be from a facility stand standpoint in 2 3 4 5 years I'm very worried that if the referendum doesn't pass and we don't get that 4 million doll State contribution waiting six or seven years to do a project three times is going to be really really tough right it's absolutely a worry but I I recognize that yeah as long as we do that have no go for it absolutely so just to pick back what Jeff was saying we tried a lot of things feasibility stud we reached out to surrounding school districts about consolidation we tried to pass a referendum and all of those things failed and obviously we just can't sit in a room you know and just talk about curriculum when the roofs are leaking we have to do something um and everyone I want I hope everyone really understands and can talk to their people that either we're going to pay 100% of these things that need to get fixed or we can pay 60% but either way they have to get paid and I'd rather someone helps and contribute the 40% and then be able in five years to roll into another referendum to get to the other issues that were Mark urgent and then in five years get to another referendum to deal with the issues that are marked important and then whatever emergencies come up between now and then so you have to look at it that way and until you have to understand it you can explain it to all people who are going to ask you questions because the kids need this they need a roof over their head I mean they're going to get it right one way or another they're going to get it just be patching holes till it yeah and and not only that we'll be shooting ourselves in the foot because as Jeff alluded to the costs are just going to go up as we saw from sure the numbers from last year these orange sections will turn into red yeah they have already turned to Red yes yeah so that that that uh roof moisture survey was done two years ago all of those orange areas are already read um the yellow areas the the new gym couple of the locker rooms uh the auxiliary gym and a couple of a hallway classrooms are being done under that Rod grant that we uh applied to the state and we were granted and the state is paying 40% of that so that other 600,000 is coming out of our existing capital reserve it's great that we can use a roof restoration process to restore those roofs those roofs that are being restored are 30 years old that those roofs are from when the last referendum in this District passed and that gym was built all of those other areas uh those roofs have far exceeded their lifespans and unfortunately in some areas there are three and in one area there's four layers of roofing material on a roof because they didn't have the money in the district at the time and they tried to find a cheaper alternative to make it usable um um and unfortunately I think we all know many of us as homeowners know that when we take shortcuts sometimes we save money initially but then it can lead to to bigger and bigger problems down the road and as I explained to the finance committee the money that we borrow through a referendum if approved if those costs come in lower and there are savings on contingency fees that we don't have to use architecture fees that we don't have to use all of that money by code automatically goes back to paying down the referendum the bonds themselves we can't turn around and say we saved a million dollars on the high school roof let's go do something else we can't do it because the state department of Ed will have only approved the four projects that will be part of our referendum and I want to be clear about that as well when we get there other question questions comments I just want to say I appreciate the transparency and I think um obviously the public is going to have questions right so I would really like to see this room filled with people asking questions instead of making assumptions and uh creating numbers in their minds right so I would really like to get those questions answered with that transparency right absolutely because it's there yeah that's a good point right the honesty is there yeah so let's get those questions answered in this for Jeff are you planning on doing um similar to what we did last referendum where we're going to have special meetings for different groups open forums things like that throughout the process absolutely and I think it it's going to be and it needs to be a partnership right um you know I'll do everything and anything to to try and get us in a position where we need to be um but it's going to be the the accomplishments of all of our different groups throughout town um that you know want to be able to address this issue the state has put a couple of programs into place um you know as part of the senior property tax freeze program um and a couple other senior initiatives this potential tax increase would be covered under the senior property tax freeze so any tax increase on a senior since the time they Appo applied to the program and were accepted they don't get it they would pay the increase as the program exists now and that money would be rebated back to them as a rebate on their subsequent year's tax return legislature in in New Jersey is working on a couple of other different programs that would make it instant credits instead of pay and get your money back unfortunately or fortunately I have nothing to do with the legislature on that end and that specific program but the state of New New Jersey would pick up that additional tax increase for any senior that is part of the property tax free program and the guidelines for that program and the income thresholds are expanding under current legislation as to who is eligible I don't I hate throwing statements out there just in case I'm Incorrect and if anyone can fact check me please but I believe the legislation is increasing the um family income to $150,000 for a couple as part of that property tax uh rebate the freeze for the 150 for 2022 and 1635 for 2023 yeah so so you know I qualify unfortunately so for all of those seniors that meet those qualifications this tax increase wouldn't impact them directly as well the state would pay for that additional increase for every one of those eligible senior free uh freeze holders in addition to the 40% that the state department of Ed would be contributing to the project as well so I think it's important to to just be clear on that and we will offer opportunities for outreach we'll partner with the buau we'll partner with our local legislature um outside of the referendum to help our senior community understand the property tax free and what it can mean for them so that if they haven't taken advantage of it they can if they are new to New Jersey or New to the expanded eligibility requirements that they can take advantage of it as well um I think that's part of being good stewards of our community regardless and everyone has that paperwork that Jeff sent over and you know we all want to know how it impacts our household it was very simple to look on there to see what your house is newly assessed at and what the um increase will be per home again you have in front of you let's use those facts and not go Rogue and say there's going to be extra fees hidden here and there all in that paperwork on the very last page of that stapled packet that you have uh it it outlines this is based on the reassessment uh values the average property tax value in town is $345,000 give or take a couple of dollars it would show you that if the Board of Ed approved this revised budget an average home assessed at $345,000 their monthly tax increase would be 2842 a month passes it's not going to go up anymore it continues to be $28 but now that money is going to be used to pay down 60% of those projects right J that is correct so I'm sorry the last page represents the 99.9% it would yeah so if you look you'll see your 2024 budget column that's what you previously approved the middle column would be the 1.56 n million that's on the revision the addition tonight and then the last column would be those two first and second column added together and then the monthly total as well that the bond rate last time around there were rumors saying that that didn't increase that that didn't include the interest that would include the interest on the reference yeah so if you if you look at the conforming maturity schedule for the proposed bonds uh a 5year bond at $9.89 million the total cost of the project interest on a five-year bond is a little over $1,677 th000 the total debt service for this project would be 10,964 th000 of that the state would contribute a minimum of $ 3.72 million of that cost uh they don't add up though right I I'll have to take a look at at the two and go through the formula again for you I think it's because they say they're gonna P3 or something like that so the legislation says 40 historically the state has been paying 36 um and it's subject to legislative Appropriations each year would be more than that and I'll check my math on the uh the tax table just to be sure Phil numbers for the year right that's for the year so I just want to make sure I'm clear so for this one you're looking at anywhere between 194 and 202 for the year and that's going to be an addition to the other side of it no so that would be everything so you're all in numbered all in so is this last page so if your house is assessed at 100,000 all in 9887 if your house is assessed at $950,000 it's roughly $940 for the year that's that's referendum interest everything we do 99.9% all in everything all in got and I like I like I said I'll I'll double check the table for you and make sure that that the numbers are there but that's exactly what you're looking at I don't want to St it but I don't know why we don't triple it like oh you on the same thing so here's the reality we've always been on the same page about that what what you're looking to do through this resolution is the maximum that the state will allow under this legislative um program that's it and again it's only valid for Boards of Education to act on when the law was uh passed the middle of June through the middle of July it's a one- month window to have an initial public um meeting and a public hearing and be done after that time period any school district that has lost state aid that doesn't take any action on this loses the ability to exceed the tax cap Levy unless there is a future Act of the legislature that creates a new program or extends this program and I'm not a betting man are we able to run demographics on how many households are in town in to in total and then break them into these categories like I can't imagine there are a lot of homes worth $100,000 unfortunately right yeah like because I think like I won't talk forever but like I want to get this out like w this is like this is we're at a point now where that this we have to get to the community and have them understand how important this stuff is to have functioning schools and I think that a large popul within Hong I don't I don't even think it's that they don't care I think it's that they just bury their heads his hand and then they drop by three and one and see a sign that says 7% tax increase they freak out and they think they're going to get pulverized but they don't really understand what that amounts to in numbers any levelheaded individual that sits in this room looks at these numbers and says for an entire year I might pay $1,000 but for that the school's not going to crumble we're not going to have a problem getting them to vote Yes on this so but you're still going to have the people that they think that if they don't if they vote no that eventually the the state will step in and take care of it too that or they just don't fact check how does that worken information yeah that is 100% a fallacy all right somehow somewhere this rumor got started that if you go out to referendum and it fails two times three times four times somebody clicks their heels together right and the department of Ed whisks in and says please let us give you money all right it does not work that way it does not work that way and uh you know someone on the board made mention and Natalia I think you did that we have looked at consolidation we reached out to 26 school districts right there is legislation that addresses consolidation that requires every municipality that's part of a school district consolidating to vote on it and if any one component of those municipalities votes no merger falls apart I was part of that in badier when I first started my career back in 2000 hope Harmony and white townships one of the townships voted no the other three voted yes the merger failed right and that is how home rule and school consolidation in New Jersey works and again it would take an act of the legislature to change that law there were four consolidation votes in the state of New Jersey in the last year only one of them passed and it was in the the far ocean beaches where they already had a tuition sharing agreement and they just combined two districts together they were small you know 30 40 kid districts and you also need the Buy in from the school you're going to merge with right to your point how many schools did we ask and how many schools told us to kick rocks every one of them L every one of them and again a school law primer for you just so you understand it if school districts were to merge the way collective bargaining works is you take the best of each of the the agreements let's say three school districts in New Jersey decided to combine together you take the best salary guide you take the best working terms and conditions you take the best health insurance all of the best comes together and then seniority applies and it's not the teachers in District a that are taking in District B and C all right all their teachers stay it's B on seniority you put all of the teachers together from all three of those districts you shuffle them up in seniority order and that's who gets to work in the new Combined District not everybody and not the teachers that maybe were original to that District that's taking everybody in and that's important to know as well and that's one of the reasons why for other school districts that get approached by a district to say hey would you be willing to talk about consolidation about sharing Services about uh attempting to reduce costs um that's one of the reasons why receiving districts start to get worried they worried that they're going to lose their identity they're going to lose their teaching staff they're going to lose their benefits that their Community has signed up for and I get that and I get that and the other component of it is this in reality right we are a school district that operates with the highest or one of the highest top 20 administrator to student ratios in the state of New Jersey all right I started in this District back in 2002 2003 school year there were 27 administrators there are six people left in this District as a right now six administrators our enrollment has dropped by about 800 students in total now over that time but your administrative staff has dropped by 75% as a way to save costs I get that we've cut programs we are not if you are a company looking to take somebody over we're not an attractive option because we've already implemented every savings under the sun to try and save our taxpayers money we're not an attractive buyout Target if that makes any sense yeah um can I Scott's question Scott you asked how do we get this information out and how many homes 100 000 so if you go on the website they have an Excel spreadsheet everybody is old assessment and new assessment I downloaded it into sheets and you can sort it from high to low I mean that's one way you can see how much homes are worth and then figure out the percentage of homes that are within that average range and high average range and if someone wants to do it on their own they can but the bottom line is education right and I want talk to people and I want to tell them I know you do too what we have going up against us a lot of times that people they're busy they don't have the time so we need to you know Hammer them with Flyers with emails with info sessions but the bottom line is we need to do this and then the town can figure out how they want to pay for it they want to pay 60% or they want to pay 100% um and you know $34 a month is not a lot of money and the fact that we have no debt we haven't been um investing in our schools that's not good for anybody's property value and it's not fair the kids who go into school here um so we have to do it right by that and I will gladly download that spreadsheet off the town website I'll sort it a 100 ways from Sunday and I'll I'll certainly send it out to the board and as we get closer towards launching a referendum and and coming back for you with a vote to go out to referendum um we'll develop a website we'll post all of that information on it um these documents here tonight the town assessed values worksheet as well um along with the project costs along with the the moisture scans on the roof all of those things um so that we can be as TR transparent as humanly possible to make sure that all of our community members understand where we're at why uh I see councilwoman Jen with a hand do I have to make a motion to go back the public or can we uh I I think a motion to go back uh to open it back up to public would be good just as long as I know that there are no other questions or comments from the board all right since I don't have a motion yet on item six resolution if you'd like to make a motion in a second to reopen it to public conversation yeah I'll make a motion to reopen the public second okay any member of the public that would like to speak yes I have I I understand it's 5.9% plus the referendum the referendum doesn't pass taxpayers are responsible for 100% if the referendum passes you're responsible for 60% of that $10 million 6 uh well a little bit more but yeah close close 62 63 64 somewhere in there yep so when you break down the referendum and I remember last year we had a price per household how much was going to go up a month a quarter whatever ever it was is there a difference in that if we if you only go to the 5.9 is that one set of numbers if the referendum passes is that a different set of numbers it's the same no matter what no so what is presented here tonight is the resolution that exists before the board which is increasing the taxes by that 1.56 n million doing so that's what the increase would be got it right that's based on the bond where the town approves a resolution and the state contributes 40% we can go back to Phoenix advisers and say to them Hey listen take out the 40% State contribution if we were to theoretically borrow the money right they would subtract out the interest right and then we would have to say how many years would it take the amount isn't going to change if the referendum fails the per month amount and here's why because if the referendum were to fail we're going to have to take seven years to get this money from the taxpayers every year before we can start the projects because we have to move it to capital reserve we can't borrow any money to start a single one of these projects so what it means for the taxpayers is instead of 5 years the state contributes approximately 40% and you're done based on this tax increase now you're looking at somewhere in the seven to8 year range of this $1.5 69 million before we can start and and actually complete the projects and those projects are going to cost you more to do if our roofs even last that long as Mr Citrus pointed out the orange areas are now all red so I think over the course of the years we've cut staff we've cut administrators we've lost a building uh there's not much more we can cut besides a roof and we're not I'm not sitting here to do that PL and simple I have a question so let's say that the referendum does pass is there any point that we would you know when we're in this budget discussion again that we would think about lowering the taxes if we got the money no no see so what I what I want to be clear on is borrowing the money right this tax increase would cover those costs right it would be five years for you to have to pay that Bond off so you mean after the five say after five years percentage lower yeah that would be up to the Board of Education in five years to make that determination that's when you go back out right the referendum which is good five years is a good is a good average you have enough time to think about what else you need to do do 20 years then takes 20 years before you make another big move that's crazy the majority of school districts of businesses as your debt starts to wind down off of your balance sheet you look to enter into new debt so that your payments don't change but you can continue those projects for another five year 10 year 15E term and as I've said before in 5 years there may be additional technology that allow us to address some of the other capital projects on our list in a different way at a different cost um we've really identified the four projects that are crucial and I've said it before the Tulsa Trail roof is held on by baton strips and sandbags right two years ago Windstorm ripped that roof from it from its um insulation we've secured it we continue to patch it on a yearly basis um the insurance company paid us all of $35,000 for the claim and that was basically administrative costs for trying to do everything they said look I'm sorry the roof was from 1974 it has well out lived its useful lifespan it has no value it would be like driving a 19 47 I don't know pickup truck that isn't a classic that you know the you get hit from behind and the car is total your insurance company isn't going to pay you out it has no value and and that's where we were at on that insurance claim so that roof absolutely has to be repaired the high school roofs have to be repaired you know that the the the high school oil tank had to be replaced under capital reserve it failed its pressure test right thank goodness the hole was near the top of the tank right so during the pandemic we could fill it halfway and we could continue using it until a new tank came in and we've put that tank above ground so that there are fewer environmental regulations there are fewer inspection costs to us there are fewer Insurance costs to us because believe it or not we live in a lake Community we are within the wet water threshold area for the lake and so underground storage tanks in this area require additional inspections an an oil tank that we replace at Durban and at the middle school as part of this project are both going above ground right it allows us to maintain them allows us to have eyes on them it allows us to reduce inspection insurance cost for the future um and those tanks are all the same age just this is a digression but are you going to put like a wall around the tank so you so you don't see it so just like the high school we've got a fence and some screening we'll do the same thing at at the middle school and we'll do the same thing at Durban but just a fence not nothing solid have money they're all tiing time bombs I have another question yeah so when they do the reassessment money just gets moved around right I am I am not a assessment professional yeah but money gets more I'm trying to see but we are we aware and can't War could we find out which of these zones from 100, 950 who got hit the hardest I'm trying to get to like who's getting hit the worst and what's that number going to be in total so and and I'll I'll certainly defer to to Jen in a minute the zones have no impact on who got assessed up down or stayed the same your individual property value is what was impacted so theoretically but it's not done in Pockets certain areas so theoretically I could have bought my house 25 years ago and didn't didn't make a lot of improvements whatever it might be and my house was assessed at 150,000 and now the town went back through and they and reassessed and they look at your home now and say well yeah in those 25 years your house is isn't assessed value isn't 150,000 anymore your house value is gone up by $400,000 put a new deck on you did some Renovations remodeling so it isn't tied to the individual assessment they assess don't they assess every home in the town sure they do but it's not based on what your previous assessment was that has the strata has nothing to do with it it's simply your individual house what's the change in its valuation up down or did it stay the same Phil's house Jason's house um Joe's house my house Jen's house it doesn't matter what it was previously it's what is the new value certain areas certain types of homes certain ages that homes were bought may impact that but that isn't an exhaustive list and I wouldn't pretend to be an Assessor valuation of the Town also went up so that's where your numbers change so my house I've been there since 06 went from 1725 to $316,000 assess value but my taxes only went up $200 a year you have other houses that at the last assessment were over assessed and they were brought back to normal and their taxes dropped a lot so there's a person who lives on the lake his taxes came down $2,000 a year that's get that gets distributed out amongst other people distributed out right so typically what they say is a third go up third stay the same and a third go down now what's the same the same is the same zero no the same as like zero to $99 a year or zero to $60 a year whatever it is is a net zero um and then outside of that is a third and a third is the way in theory is supposed to happen but the you're you're saying the assessed value of the whole town went up I can't remember what it was I want to I want to but it generates the same amount of taxes so the tax levy for the town is $13 million you're not going to generate any more than 13 million do so that $13 million is just distributed differently and it's the same argument for school taxes right when there's an assessment assessment even when new homes let's say there were 400 acres of land in town that was developable and 400 new homes were built on one acre lots that increases the town's assessed value but it does nothing for the local school district tax levy because our Levy is a set amount all it means is everybody in the town pays a little bit less because of those new homes that would be built spread out stand that what I'm trying to drive at is we're not putting anybody out on the street yeah right in totality with the town doing their assessment with us doing this this thing um let's say it it equals out right somebody get a $400 increase from the town of a $400 increase must $800 for the year here right so my point is we're going to get a lot of push back you know oh you know Johnny down the street can't afford a sandwich and you know how dare you do this and put him out on the street like I I we have to be prepared to have proactive messaging on the fact that a that's not true B the people that really are at the most risk of this would be the seniors who have a program to get rebates you know if if in fact they they need it and if they don't then they don't right so I think the last time we did this we did a couple of events at the school and art was really saying like I got this i got this and you know you didn't have it right and I think we collectively as a group we have to figure out like we need to do more and like look I'm down man I'll roll the sleeves up whatever knocking on doors it's about the need babies we have to really like if we go in half ass we're going to get shot down again this town is very averse to these types of things and we know it's important because we sit here every month and we read these numbers and it's ingrained and we care enough to join a school board right so if you care enough to join a school board you're going to be proactive in in wanting to get this stuff done but we've got to find the way to reach the person who's sitting home right now saying I could give two you know whats about what happens at the school and try to say to them like hey look you may not care about the school and you may not care about kids and that's aggressive but like some people don't but you should care about your own home value right and the way that your own home value goes up is by investing in the community and having the schools grow and do well people want to come here they move into town supply and demand right so I think we have to have some type of presentation that shows not just like hey we need some money to fix like these things that are broken but ultimately we have a a bigger plan in place once those basic things are fixed and we Baseline this thing now we have more revenues coming in each year and we could start to do bigger things that are going to make this stuff look good act good offer more courses right so that people see down the road okay if I vote for this now in 15 years when I want to move out of here and retire or do whatever I'm going to do and sell my house it's going to be worth more because otherwise the roof's going to cave in your house is house is going to be worthless because everybody's going to move out of town and uh you know it's like a nuclear Armageddon around here so those are the extreme examples but somewhere in the middle is the truth I I I agree H are you are you done sorry probably went a little too long on that no no no no no I just want to cut you off because you're making good points I agree a th% with you right the the message has to be better but at the end of the day the message has to be so simplistic because it really is at this point right the school board which we've never had we have leverage right and it's bad leverage but at the end of the day it's a simple you vote Yes and you will pay a fraction of the bar money you vote no and you're on the hook for 100% I it it doesn't get any clearer than that we're talking about tax increases reassessments programs people don't give a about any of that stuff they know the argument that they everybody had in every one of these meetings is the school board from 10 years ago from 20 years ago from 30 years ago you guys didn't do anything that's going to be the message for those people regardless regardless so it's a simple I don't want to say gun to the head but that's exactly what it is right the the state afforded us an awful program but a program that gives us a little bit of Leverage to say we're doing this you want to do it incrementally very slowly more painfully more expensive fine cuz we'll stay right whoever else doesn't want to be a part of that will go and new people who come in will have a vision of a younger Vision they'll say this is a really good thing or you got we could pay a fraction of it and we can get the water from under our nose five years from now we can say look look at our facilities look how the enrollment numbers are going up programs are able to offer now let's really hit apart right it's gotot the the the delusions of grandeur that you and I have right let's let's put you know make more programs a new field whatever the case may be but when people start to see progress that's when people start to wake up so it's got to be succinct it's got to be as simple as yes this is your number no that's your number you do what you want to do I think a nice thing would be is maybe we could see what these like towns like Mount Olive and how much more these individuals are able to sell their house because they invested in the schools maybe that could also Drive the point for the people that don't have kids and mean like wow I could get an extra $200,000 if I invest in this for the next 10 years that seems seems you know a pretty simple decision to make yeah uh for me the people I talked to prior to the last referendum you know we're all just basic people what's the bottom line and what am I getting for it that's what's important to everybody what am I paying per month what am I have to pull away from whatever my personal budget or what can I do I think a lot of people catastrophized what was going to go on last year because they got misinformation I think this speaks clearly very clear this is how much it cost you per month monthly yearly and I that's message we have to get to most people because most people are like us I have to say Scott was talking about what's the average but if you look at at the makeup of the town now the young families people are moving back in well you know they're K through 12 but they're younger families that want to invest in the schools they just want to know hey how much this going to cost me and what are exactly we getting for is this a money grabbed by the by the board you guys are going after 9.9% but we have to tack on to that Hey listen we go out for this referendum it's our goal to do X Y and Z that's what we have to let people know clearly without this this other propaganda on on I don't want to go my social media but I I despise social media I don't have it but there's a lot of misinformation out there so I invite people to come here you know what even if they go online and pull up our minutes just read it read factual information for once they're not going to do that and that's why social media is so important that's why having a social media presence was so important the last referendum Facebook was an atrocious mess of disinformation about the referendum you had multiple people claiming that the taxes were going to go up 17% we're going to make all the seniors lose their homes that was that's not going to go away though no it's not no but we batt right yes we we were very active in all the haacon groups all the community groups that there are and we were in there every single day in the trenches and those comments saying telling them that's not true we put out all the facts out there but the problem is you can show them the numbers and they want to read the numbers because they just want to believe the hype all right but I think that Joe saying breaking it down and just saying look you can hurt a little now or you can really hurt down the road that's the easiest way to say it is we either hurt a little right now with a little bit of tax increase or down the road we're really going to hurt when our roof is collapsing and we have a lawsuit on our hands exactly we have lawsuits we have kids who have mold breathing in mold and all kinds of other things black and white um can I make a motion to move item number six already do that I I have one more go for I ask a board member a question Mr got you we're gonna live that down no no m not a recording Phil I have a question for you um your new name the last referendum in both committee and public you um were very vocal in in saying that we didn't do our due diligence which is a pretty um scary word especially from the world you and I come from right um would you say that after the the last referendum passed would you say that the due diligence has been done on this project and all the things leading up to it I I don't deny that there the roof is leaking no no not not that have we done due diligence on the things that we need throughout the course from September to today for all the things you have asked Jeff to do to be able to speak confidently that this is the best route forward for the school have we done our due diligence yes or no I have two no sorry I have two answers for it sure okay uh the first one is uh I still don't have any answers to my questions regarding the the um the report that we got there were a lot of questions I had for that and because we didn't question it I at that part of it I the the the poro report you know the the one that that what what was it called U who's who are those questions consolidation who are those questions with the ones that you have who has those questions oh I I sent them I sent them to Jeff I sent them to Nicole I sent them to you too like four questions question I'm waiting for the attorney to get back to with the consultant to be able to answer Phil's questions I I asked these questions two months ago at least more so so that to me is is still an outstanding issue in my head got it as far as as far as what this looks like this this looks I think this makes a lot of sense so du diligence was done on this fire here in front of you due diligence was done on everything that you see of you he uh yes with the exception of course of the porio report I'll make a motion to move it I'll second finish my answer after that comes any discussion it always gets confusing when with that with the discussions and moving forward look the truth of the matter is dude uh you got you got a community here that's kind of like on the Rocks right and your your section of the community is going to be important to get this vote passed and you're the ADV I'm not worried at all about the referendum I'm worried about an additional 6% to people are going to go crazy that was never mentioned yeah what's you keep bringing up 6% where are you getting 6% it's the four it's the 4% plus the five it's 5.9% but that's happening one way or the other yeah I no I get that okay but I'm saying people are going to wonder what the hell are we doing D increasing our taxes by by 9% in one year tell them we're fixing our roof that's we're doing that's fine and we got to make sure that they understand that that we have to do it the referendum is pretty much going to be it'll be for free for the most part I want to use the word free right it'll be pretty much paid for behind media send them to me I'll tell them exactly what we're doing with the money send them to me and here's the deal right so when you look at the percentage and this is what I was talking about when you drive it's a big percentage you look at 9.9% that's a big number when you look at this and you say to somebody whose house $750,000 that they're going to pay $738 the year I don't think that the only way you're going to get push back from somebody on that is if they're proactively saying I do not want to invest in Nickel in the whole pakong school district because I don't care about it actually I I know people that would say exactly that right really I mean also know people new people that came never come down that said Phil do we really need this and I said well we need it but you know but at this time I thought it was we didn't do but I put out sign that said 7% increase like this is you're going to be a big part of this passing because your constituents promise you I will support the referendum as written as long as we're going to continue to we pay it with the I want to see I want to see on Facebook saying vote Yes you know what we y front yard I don't want I don't want to beat you into I want you to really see it and believe it because like I said I have to you can single-handedly get this pass I I want what I want to believe and and be get some level of assurance is that the 9.9 is is is the max we're not going to go beyond that can't by law cannot by law done next cannot cannot increase taxes by but if you have a referendum and they p and it passes you know your statement here about using it for for U payments is you know outstanding it doesn't NE doesn't necessitate that we'll do that I mean come come next year when the budget comes in we can the board can say um no we you know we put the bond was the bond was passed therefore the taxes have to go up another 5% whatever the hell the number would be that's potential have a sure it could be working reverse to and and just for record different year I I said to you no no I understand what you're said and I believe you I will never present a budget moving forward if this tax increase approves and the referendum is passed that money that we are raising tonight 1.56 19659 will directly be placed towards paying off those bonds and in this year's budget that we are proposing to you as I said to you it is set aside in a maintenance line specific for Capital Improvements with nothing else budgeted to it no transfers in no transfers out no because Phil I I agree with you and I want to be 100% transparent I know we need this yeah and I know that the referendum is the additional tool in November and the only way to get the state to pay 40% yeah absolutely I know I get that abely behind that all right with that on the resolution item six approving uh to submit the tenative revised school budget to the Sussex County Superintendent motion by Mr Falcone seconded by Mr chaffy uh let me call the role Please Mr Falcone yes Mr Deano um I'm G to vote present okay Dr Capello do you know what that means you're piece of work that's what it means yes Miss gulan yes Mr chaffy absolutely Mr Francis Miss PA absolutely and Mr Miss Falcone Schubert 100% yes okay uh let me move to item number seven Board of Ed member comments any additional comments from members of the board this evening I just want to say congratulations to all the seniors that are graduating tomorrow night very exciting we are uh we are looking look forward to a great ceremony tomorrow evening uh again it will be hot um i' ask no suit no suits uh you know what I would say please dress comfortably be smart um given the weather forecast that's for board members that's for our public um I know that the high school administration has been working diligently to make sure it is a dignified succinct ceremony so that we can honor and celebrate our graduates um I I worked on on my speech I I joked with the seventh grade advancment ceremony the other night that uh I trimmed my speech from an hour and 30 minutes to an hour and 25 um my speech tomorrow night will be under two minutes it it is not my night it is our students and our family's night I want to congratulate our students I want to thank our parents in our community um and then we'll get a chance to celebrate them so I look forward to that thank you I would like to make a comment uh just congratulations to all our pacon Girl Scouts who just bridged the other day uh we had about 30 Girl Scouts from across about five different troops who all bridged and moved up levels um all the way from Daisy going to Brownies to uh one who is leaving uh Girl Scouts and going into adulthood so bridging means going from brownies to Girl Scout right they move up to their next level and then you had the one single girl boy scouts I don't know girls like a CB Scout to a Boy Scout right same I got two girls I'm very well well versed in Girl Scouts you have to be and I appreciate I start bringing some cookies I am a tro lead all right with that can I have a motion and a second to adjourn this evening please second all right all in favor all right we'll close this meeting 8:09 p.m this evening thank you all thanks e