##VIDEO ID:MchVfP3a5p4## oh yeah sometimes I think it's a bit of Overkill but depends on the type of meeting I'm in sometimes it's helpful oh is is Joe back today I see him in the waiting room yeah I think he came back like the day after our last meeting okay you there Joe hello everyone yeah how was your trip vacation oh it was great we're up in Alaska oh wow yeah it's on my list yeah it's a it's a definite one to do it's a it's a defin one to do the chair you're live on hcam TV all right thank you all right I'm going to start our recording recording in progress and I am going to read our Zoom introduction here um this is the October 8th 2024 open meeting of the hopkington Conservation Commission being conducted remotely consistent with an act extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency the new law authorizes all members of a public body to continue participating in meetings remotely the open meeting laws requirement that a COR of the body and the chair be physically present at the meeting location remains suspended for this meeting the hopkington Conservation Commission is convening by video conference via Zoom app is posted on the town's web meeting calendar and the Conservation Commission a agenda identifying how the public may join additionally the meeting may also be broadcast by hcam through one or more of channels or platforms please note that the meeting is being recorded and that some attendees are participating by video conference accordingly Please be aware that others may be able to see you and take care not to share screen share your computer anything that you broadcast may be captured by the recording supporting materials have been provided to members of the commission for this meeting are available on the town's website the meeting will feature public comment after commission members and staff have discussed each project application on the agenda chair will open the discussion to public comment members of the public who wish to speak are asked to identify their name and address 3 minutes will be afforded for each public comment each vote taken in this meeting will be conducted via roll call of the members so I will now confirm which commission members are present Ed Ed harell no I to admit a couple people okay um Jim Ted Ted is present Jenine present Matt see I know I admitted him Matt are you here I am okay good and um newest member to the commission Heather Burton present awesome welcome Heather thank you welcome Heather I watched the select board meeting where you got appointed well done thank you I did as well congratulations thanks wow there a bunch of supporters um and then I'll confirm the staff that are present Kim here anna present and Joe present all right awesome so um I think before we get into agenda items um Heather do you not to put you completely on the spot but do you want to just introduce yourself and give a little background to the commission members I don't know that everyone else actually saw your resume some obviously tuned in and already heard it but sure absolutely yes hello everyone uh Heather Burton um a professor at Massachusetts Maritime Academy in Buzzard's Bay um I'm the chair of that department for well the name of the department is Marine Science Safety and Environmental Protection so it's a bit of a mouthful um we're a very interdisciplinary department but my focus is um oceanography Coastal ecology um climate change science and um I guess I a bit of a history in all of those fields I used to be a seagoing oceanographer um but then kind of moved on to uh the the land oceanographer when I wanted to have a family so um so yeah that's a bit about me I moved to hopkington a year and a half ago and I'm just excited to contribute to the committee and uh and you know learn what's going on and and um participate yeah so thank you yeah um all right with that being said Kim's got the revised agenda up here and I'll just point out to those in attendance that we had a few things that have been continued and will not be discussed tonight that were originally on the agenda um the first is 150 fruit streets continuing to October 22nd hackington Stone and Garden at 28 Lumber is continued to November 12th and the Toll Brothers Wood Farms also known as Newberry Glenn violation discussion the applicant requested a continuation to October 22nd which is our next meeting Marissa yes ask question in that regard um do we can we get a status report from Kim or or someone uh I mean they're not have they been compliant I I hate to continue a violation unless uh they they're keeping up yeah Kimmer Anna did you get any more details in when they made the request to continue through the chair yes um yep I did um hear from Ted Merchant today he um was under the impression that he was on for the 22nd didn't realize we had continued to the eth so he said that he had um been Gathering some information but didn't have all of the information the commission had requested quite yet um so he thought it would be a lot more productive conversation to continue to the 22nd to be able to give the commission the entire picture and all of the information they were looking for okay okay thank you okay thanks I'm glad he um reached out all right so that being said 706 um documents for review hopkington DPW Wood Street right away order of conditions um this is something that um you were going to sign for us Anna Kim the chair I believe that would be me yeah yeah so I drafted Anna Anna's gonna sign an issue okay sounds good um um so we'll just go down the list here next on the agenda we have open Play One 24 East Main Street in through the chair through the chair yeah sorry do you need to um vote to issue that to authorize Anna to issue and sign yes we can do that um can I get a motion I'll make that motion second um all in favor Ed are you not with us yet okay um Jim yeah hi Ted hi Janine hi Matt Hi and um Heather I don't know if you want to vote on something you haven't read yet probably okay all right just make sure Ed's not in the waiting room nope okay um moving on to open play um we have the applicant on the line I see have I have everybody hello welcome back thank you I'm super excited to be back yeah um go ahead and give us a rundown of what you're up against right so um um who Anna Kim Kim yep I'm I'm on can you actually bring the other one first because I'd like to explain where I started so the commission has an understanding what uh what we've done so uh we got um this guy are the approved plans yeah yeah this one this one this one is fine if you can please zoom in on the building so it's going to be easier for them to see and understand what kind of the challeng is so of course um I got the order of conditions uh that was maybe two months ago and after that we started preparing for the site work and uh we got the uh engineering plans from the uh metal building and uh uh we got the um design of the foundation from the structural engineer and when I looked at the design of the foundation my heart sunk because the foundation was much bigger than anybody anticipated you see this red outline of that um those squares those are the footings they would go under grade right but they uh uh definitely go inside of the 75 ft buffer and also on the south end they uh actually go into the setbacks for the leion field and setbacks for the 4in force main pipe so that wouldn't work and there were a couple of different ways how to go about doing that one of them was to shift the whole building a few feet up because otherwise we would disturb the leing field uh one of the things that I did I uh um worked really hard with my structural engineer to redesign the foundation to make it smaller and that's what they did so just today actually we got the new foundation design which uh is a big relief for me personally because as you see the not only those squares are smaller they are they are kind of asymmetric now and they are shifted more towards the center of the building and now they are sticking out only maybe 3 feet 3 and A2 fet uh Beyond the Wall of the building right which means that uh most likely I will not have to shift the building and the only change compared to the previous plan is the shift of the drainage pipes you see those red lines on the North one needs to go up by 3 fet again the footings and this red line that represents the drainage will be under theg grade so it will not uh add any imperious coverage to the buffer or anywhere else and the same thing on the south end uh where the leeching field is now we will will be only about 5 ft into the setbacks which uh based on my initial conversation with Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection that oversees the leing field seems like it's a workable solution for them as well that is an exception that they willing to make I'm still working to get it formalized uh but that seems like uh kind of the place where I am right now so um hopefully I will not need to shift the building anywhere and I'm looking for an approval for this design of the foundation with the footing going maybe like 3 ft into the 75 ft buffer okay all right um Anna you looked at this right a little bit did you have any additional thoughts or comments on um this revision and how it's presented um this plan just came in about 15 minutes ago so I've barely gotten a chance to see it um I pretty much just downloaded it for you guys so I have not gotten a chance to review it okay all right so we're looking at um we're looking at foundation for the building Within within the 75 right so so basically when the plan was presented before and what was approved by the commission and the planning board there was no really design of the foundation at that time the engine just hasn't created the design at that moment yet so it was not presented it was not discussed MH now that we have that um kind of I realized that it would be prudent for me to put it in in front of the commission especially the way how I thought before today that potentially I would need to move the whole building up by those three feet now I don't have to move the building but the foundation that goes under the uh under the ground underneath will uh will need to uh be within the buffer along with the drainage but the drainage pipe was already on the previous plans and uh it's uh it's already within those 75 foot buffer okay yeah this is the this is a good sheet to show right so that was the plan you see how this black line on both sides on South and North mhm yeah so we keep the same thing the same um solution for drainage it just moves up by 3T because of the foundation okay so um my first thought just looking at the you know I think I looked at the other plan earlier today so obviously it's a little different it looks like it's pretty I want to say minor change given that the building is still staying where it was um any impacts are going to be landscaped like they were before gradings not [Music] changing that's right not nothing is changing grading is not changing the Landscaping nothing is really impacted by this okay um does anyone uh um on the commission have any thoughts I guess my one thing would be um you you said that you need to still maybe work through this with d and confirm that there okay with okay with it um do you envision any potential changes um should So based on my initial conversation with them um and with the guy who developed this leing field some years ago I'm working with him on U um like throughout this whole Pro process it's about 90% that it's going to work and DP will approve it there is a small chance that they will not in which case I will need to come back and uh probably would need to file an amendment to noi because in this case the building would need to shift by these three feet in order to honor the um the setback for theion field yeah but again the the chances are very small that this will happen okay all right Kim at this point do you have any um thoughts on the I this kind of looks like a minor modification if the building's not moving yeah um I feel like the the shift is the shift as presented in this updated plan is minuscule or you know minimized enough that I think the commission should consider it um my only comment would be that um I would request yeah that you sub submit something in writing just so that we can keep the record on the file for when we go to do the COC so basically just a one one pager explaining the situation and um the CH the proposed changes and then you know attach this plan um and then I can issue you something in writing recognizing that that back sound great I will do that okay and of course I will I will also share the approval from DP once I once I receive that okay great um does anyone on the commission have any additional thoughts or comments on this speak now okay with that being said Kim do we need to vote no I don't think so right if you're considering it a minor project change should be okay yeah okay I think all set and yeah if anything changes then um come on back wonderful thank you so much y wonderful evening you too all right um now that it's past 7:15 I'll jump back up to the continued hearings so that would be the charleswood school um do we have representatives from that team on the call that want to give an update hi there yes uh Claire hogaboom Wetland scientist with LEC environmental Consultants representing the applicant um through the chair Kim if I could share my screen um I just wanted to show in particular um a response to one of the outstanding peer review comments so as I prepare to share my screen um just what I'd like to summarize is uh since our last meeting on September 24th uh we received the peer review response letter from Lucas environmental um thank you Joe for providing that I appreciate that with uh your time off and your diligent review on everything um my understanding through reading that letter is that um most of the comments have been adequately addressed in our last peerreview response um two remaining items uh remain outstanding one of which was uh discrepancy among um understanding where the pibs are proposed on the site um so I just wanted to use this opportunity to clarify exactly where those are proposed um so this is The Hardscape plan that is sheet L1 in the plan set um it's a big plan set so it's very easy to have it buried and they are very small icons so I just wanted to make it clear um to depict where we have these proposed and as I reviewed our numbers and what we provided in our supplemental information or our peer review response letter I realized our numbers were a little bit off as well so just to be clear um we have nine total pibs or conservation markers proposed in buffer zones or close to buffer zones we have three educational signs proposed we have two Critter crossing signs proposed proposed um so just around the school itself we have three conservation markers proposed in the buffer zone to the offsite Pond and an education sign at the rain Garden just south of the proposed school um on to the next sheet that's the Western half of the site we have uh conservation markers proposed on each side of the um site entrance from Hayden Rose Street uh this is our Critter crossing here in green and another Critter crossing over here in green uh we have two pibs uh or conservation markers here and then two up in this corner by the athletic fields and that uh emergency driveway uh going around the athletic fields here it's not necessarily in buffer zone but we felt just it's close enough to an isolated Wetland um that we wanted to just indicate you know as we know things can just be sort of Forgotten if they're just outside of the buffer zone so um just avoiding any um further work into the tree line that could get us into the buffer zone someday um and then lastly the two remaining educational signs um this is a tougher plan to sort of Orient yourself with initially but it's essentially around the play area to the rear of the school so to the right of the or the east of the play area is where that detention Basin is proposed um so we have an educational sign on sort of the northeastern half of that play area and then the Southeastern half that'll be in the direction of the Ed of the uh detention Basin um so I just wanted to clear that up um you know our numbers were a little bit off in the first place but um I think the other remaining item was the phasing um exhibit we submitted a revised phasing exhibit after our discussion at the September 24th meeting um it include some more detail to address the commission members concerns that were expressed at the last meeting um I could ask Steve to maybe dive in a little bit more into the details of it but before he goes into that I also just wanted to um get the update I shared with Kim and Anna I believe I want to say it was a couple days ago I think it was yesterday um that we received um a stormwater uh peer review response from tigan Bond saying that their comments have been Ade quately addressed by Samy od's uh response letters and revisions so um with that Steve if you want to take a couple minutes just to explain um what changes we've made since the last meeting to the phasing exhibit sure uh good evening everyone it's Steve powers from samot Consultants we are the civil engineers for the project um so uh based on previous comments from the commission we have put together a Conservation Commission specific exhibit which we become part of the bid documents um as requested so what we've done is essentially stick to very similar um um I guess categories or or steps for the contractor to put together the logistics plan um prior to starting construction and presenting it to the Conservation Commission in a more detailed approach uh what we wanted to do is give specific direction of um one what needs to happen prior to construction to the um uh to the contractor so they are well aware of um what they need to provide um this being um in front of the Conservation Commission environmentally sensitive area and how they're going to go about uh abiding by the approval so that'll include a lot of documents uh not um necessarily um ending at the design plan set the approved design plan set the storm water pollution prevention plan and the Order of conditions um so what we wanted to do is put together one exhibit that sort of summarizes um you know sort of the steps that they need to take as they proceed through construction so the first section um is is prior to construction and that gives the contractor the specific Direction on the information that they need to provide um to the Conservation Commission ahead of time um and um allow that to be reviewed and commented on by the commission so those are the steps um similar to what we had last time we added some more detail to it some more Direction um the next category so these are the highlighted categories this is priority construction is is to the uh left of the screen uh the next one is specific um information that is to be included as part of the phasing exhibit and again this will be a bid document um containing um everything that the contractor um needs to understand in putting together the logistics plan and the phasing plan um moving forward um and then the next um what we wanted to do is set up phase one and this will be a multiphased um project it'll be a multiphase um level of of site work and disturbance that that's ongoing so we wanted to provide specific Direction um to the contractor to include into the logistics plan that will be provided to the concom prior to again commencement of construction um approval and revie well review by the Conservation Commission making sure that that this uh Logistics plan that they develop is in line with with the intent um that of the design plans and all of the other deliverables and documentation that we're having uh approved reviewed and approved by the Conservation Commission so um what we did was detail that first phase and if if you could zoom in right in that those first few steps him or of CLA whoever's controlling it yeah so what we want to do is obviously establish the construction exits um fencing um and then gets tilt fence and and the other perimeter protections on there and so the next step is is halting all activities contacting the commission agent and any members that may want to visit the site uh to review it make sure it's installed properly they're comfortable with it um and then proceeding with the next um the next steps in in in providing erosion and sediment control measures in accordance with the approved plans so what we've done is we we've detailed out the steps for phase one however this will be a multi-step process it'll be repeated multiple times um we don't have a specific number of phases that it's going to be but we can um almost guarantee it will be multiple phases and after each one in accordance with this it'll be a repeat of those steps um moving forward so we do have the opportunity to install again perimeter control measures um stabilize you know where we need to and then contact the Conservation Commission representative and the members to come out and not only do phase one inspections and and review what what has been installed but subsequent phases after that who the chair um um Chris Eberly from vertex I just want to supplement what uh what Steve saying so um we discussed this at length at reviewing the comments that the commission made at the last meeting and we are trying to strike a balance between the commission's concerns that um the contractor has an open-ended approach to the project but also the team's concerns that the contractor um who is a public contractor um working for the town has um enough flexibility in how he can approach this project and to sort of find a happy balance there so what Steve outlined for you there is really to um meet the building Department's goal of creating circulation throughout the site and to stabilize the areas that are related directly to that circulation which due to the path of the various swes actually covers a significant portion of the site and then moving on from that point um we would then provide notice and we use that the difference between requesting an inspection for erosion controls and perimeter controls versus providing notice in response to some of the discussion that we had in the last meeting where we didn't want to tie the contractor to having the agent constantly have to come out with however they broke up the work and say that they had moved forward but making the contractor commit to a plan for how they plan to move forward and making sure that the uh Conservation Commission agent is aware of when they've hit that stabilization point before they move on to other work that gives them the flexibility to potentially tackle the entire site if they're going to do the stabilization first and provide notice that that stabilization is complete before moving on to other work or they can provide you with a plan that says we're going to tackle a certain area first and then move on to an additional area I think that that flexibility is important when you're publicly bidding something under um the state's public bidding rules and understanding that this is $125 million project that needs to all open at the same time all right gotcha um thank you for clarifying that Chris um Steve did you have anything else that you were going to go through or no no I just wanted to revisit you know the the steps and the and the direction we're providing and then um just kind of discuss the the additional comments that that you and the other commission members had last hearing okay um thank you all for going back revisiting and adding another level of detail into the the phasing plan I think you know I did read through this before the meeting and um I think there are additional um measures in here where we can check in with a contractor and um make things make sure things are everybody's comfortable with what's going on on the site um so I appreciate appreciate that I feel more comfortable with where it's at now um I don't know if anyone else has any comments or um Kim or Joe if you had anything in particular on the phasing plan you wanted to bring up uh this is Joe um yeah I didn't uh see anything in particular that jumped out on me on the uh plan that was presented um although I I should say that I was not present for the discussion at the last meeting uh so I can't comment on whether this U meets what the commission had discussed and was looking for thanks all right I don't I don't really have any additional comments related to the phasing plan plan okay anyone else on the commission have anything they want to talk about here no I think this looks good this definitely addresses the concerns we had brought up at the last meeting so appreciate that everyone y okay um in regard to the signage in your letter Joe um did what Claire walked through did that address your last comments that you had in your letter or was there anything else you wanted to bring up um on that end uh yeah I think the uh the two biggest remaining comments I had were the project phasing um and the pibs I also had noted u a comment that I had concurred with the um protocol that was presented for the um invasive species management um uh plan that would be provided by the contractor I thought the protocol was was uh quite detailed and appropriate for the for the project side okay great that's awesome um and I'm glad we got the letter cleared from TY Bond um on to the chair yes see um does the amount do does the amount of pibs um fall in line with our standard of one per X feet I think typically we do is it 40 feet Kim is what we've been been using along the perimeter of a resource area 30 to 40 feet on Center is typically what we do um the site is definitely a little bit different I think than a lawn you know than like a homeowner's lawn um but I mean we might be able to get away with 50 feet on Center something like this I'm not sure Claire do you have any um ideas on how what the spacing looks like I'm trying to pull up a plan right now but but yeah I agree it's not like we're gonna get lawn creep here I I don't I can't say for certain if I understand the spacing of it adequately but I was sort of we were mimicking what we did with um Hopkins and just trying to utilize sort of turning points or areas between turning points in the buffer zone that were really um too distanced um and just having something present within the buffer zone at some level so um yeah you might have to scroll through all the Civil plans in a couple details before you get to The Hardscape sheets these plans are stacked guys making you work for it let's try it's going as fast as it can you got to turn off the enable scrolling feature it makes it go a lot faster for you I'm never looking that fast I'm always looking at the plants yeah so the next sheet uh should be the start uh in that bottom left corner of that sheet will be three pibs um in the pond buffer zone through the chair Claire do you have that plan that showed the highlighted B location I do yes that's Kim I could have probably to digest yeah let me just uh my screen here so oh didn't hit share yet so you see the plan before you or we can see it yeah okay great yeah so the pibs are highlighted here what I tried to do with um relaying this information to the landscape architect especially like in most of these areas here just having it sort of at the outskirts of the buffer zone at a turning point and then um another sort of final turning point before exiting the buffer zone and that's to the pond that's located offsite um on the western portion of the site we have two of the pibs on either side of the entrance here um what I would say is like right here is where some of that those storm water features are located so um those in themselves may act and function as a sort of deterrent for um further encroachment um you know the only encroachment that would be necess NE would be to um either maintain the storm water or it's kind of difficult under seeing this from the hardcap plan because the landscape plan actually depicts a lot of buffer zone plantings in this area um that would be um planted and maintained and sort of same note on this side with um sort of the storm water features along um this area with this piib and some plantings proposed along here as well with the sidewalk um we have the two pibs uh in proximity to our D series and um actually just one of them is really in the BV uh the buffer zone here this is the 100 fot and it just skirting the edge of the sidewalk here um and this one's a little bit outside of the buffer zone but potentially just a good warning a good heads up as you know snow plows might be coming into the school in the winter to um move things around or maintenance Crews or things like that so um figured that could be a good location for that pib and these two as well um again just a turning point where it's closest to the Wetland um and then just another open point where um just to continue that warning of sensitive resource areas nearby through the chair yes um if I recall correctly because we've seen you for a lot of weeks now um the con or the concom agent provides the pibs and they're fixed by the contractor so um we would absolutely not be opposed to fixing additional along the tree line um and that could be determined in the field I don't know that it creates any um burden on the town to nail a couple of addition pibs to some trees in that area one of the challenges here that I think Claire's outlining is that um each of these Wetlands areas is fairly small in nature compared to their buffer zone and so it's easy to drive down that road other than the the one at the sort of um the curve of the road there and you you've almost passed the buffer zone entirely by the time you put a sign on there and go 40t so um that was a factor in sort of how they were laid out but if the concom wanted to supply additional pibs and affix them at the tree line we'd be very open to that okay thank you I appreciate that I think that's probably a good idea and when when construction's you know more at a complete state it might stand out to us where it makes sense to put the pibs um on particular trees at that point in time so um we'll keep that in mind I think for the future and supplement as needed um it is a town projects so like you said that should be easy enough to do does that makes does that answer question Janine does that make sense yes it does and I and I appreciate the rationale of why they're placed where they're being placed so thank you yeah okay chair yes Kim I can always write in a special condition addressing that as well like maybe it could go um part of a condition for a certificate of compliance the conservation agent can review the pib line and make any kind of recommendations for any additional po uh pibs okay that's a good suggestion let's do that chair just one quick question on the pibs the ones kind of opposite the field on the bottom of the page there Claire it looks there's a large area that's going to be vegetated is that lawn or is that oh let me share again Natural regrowth Area I'm just thinking if it's going to be lawn the pibs would make more sense to be on the tree line as as opposed to are you talking about this area in particular yes exactly so this is something that I may have noticed a discrepancy between the um landscape plan versus the Civil plans that show the limit of work and the extent of tree clearing this Tre this new tree line shown here is not entirely representative of what we're proposing I think this may have been a leftover from when we had this road further south in the buffer zone um so the actual proposed tree line is much much much closer sounds good I just didn't think it made sense to have pib's upgrading a blon that's going to need to be maintained if that was the case but sounds like it's not so great thank you through the chair yes um one of the planning board comments that was given to us by the emergency responders in town was to consider how close the tree line got to the road itself given that it's a oneway in one way out they were concerned that um a Fallen Tree could block access in and out of the school and so we're trying to find a balance there that's appropriate as well okay okay makes sense all right with that being said um I think we can close this out and take a vote if I can get a yes yep sorry I would also just recommend I have written down uh for lus environmental special condition for a project specific ismp to be be submitted to the concom at least 30 days prior to construction activities for review and approval if that is um something that the project team is amendable to in the order CLA I think that's what we discussed overall I we sort of skipped over it to summarize the phasing plan but um what we had asked of the contractor as part of that sort of early package is we're going to bring them on board most likely in May of this of next year and then we're going to have a mobilization date that's several months after that to handle any lead time during that time we're asking them to develop the construction management plan that's required and we added as part of those phasing conditions the construction management plan requirements we modeled it off what we did for the Hopkins school and then as part of that they're doing the phasing in logistics plan and so it would be easy to add into that a requirement that they write down what their invasive spe isues management plan is based on the performance spec that's included perfect okay great um all right can I get a motion to um approve with the special one special condition on the pibs um that we just discussed make go ahead sorry through the chair yes just approve with special conditions as discussed perhaps yes that's okay get too specific and um signature and signature by Anna and that was my motion it included all of those things I just didn't speak it out loud I second I second all right um we'll do the roll call vote I don't think Ed didn't join I think we're still missing Ed yep okay uh Jim hi Ted Ted is an i Janine I Matt I um and Heather you can abstain if you like I think I should abstain um until I collect a little more information but yeah there's a lot of history on this one okay yeah yeah all right so we're all set thank you very much I appreciate the commission for all your diligent review and comments thank you Kim and thank you Anna thank you Joe uh we really appreciate everybody's time and attention to this project and looking forward to moving ahead yeah no thank you all and we look forward to working with you all right have a great evening you too thank thank you all right um we are up to Burton 178 Ash Street request for certificate of compliance um the chair yep you want to give us a background happy to so for the commission's uh recollection 178 as was for the construction of a new single family house um prior to the installation of the or control there was some additional clearing beyond the approved limit of work so there was an amended um order issued to um provide some naturalization and some plantings as restoration the um homeowner got occupancy pretty recently and applied for a certificate of compliance and met with the commission back in May of 2024 based on Lucas environmentals comments um there was some area of vegetation that was not quite stable there was um no monitoring report on the restoration area and some invasive species have moved in the driveway remained unpaved at the time and the approved um storm water management at the bottom of the driveway to prevent runoff onto Ash Street had not been installed so the commission met with the applicant um and indicated to keep the origin controls in place until there was some additional stabilization they asked for the driveway to be paved and um to either install the designed storm water management system or to come up with an alternative to prevent runoff onto Ash Street so the applicant has followed up with me has provided some additional pictures that Kim is showing the driveway has been paved some um Stone has been added adjacent um actually parallel to Ash Street and the um area of the yard that has not was not stable has now been stabilized with additional vegetation and I do believe Mr Burton is on the call for additional questions and comments from the commission okay um all right so it looks like a lot of things um have been addressed since we last met um but it looks like the driveway um the end of the driveway the storm water management looks like it's still in question in my mind um Mr Burton do you wna do you want to speak for a minute on on where you're at on this sure U my name is James Burton once in Street uh the driveway is installed at 2% grade so it ships water onto the lower yard uh there was no settling Pond due to the fact that there were old growth trees that are probably 150 years old right on the street um the state's regulations towards uh digging holes in the ground right next to those trees was not to do it because it'll kill the tree so at the last meeting we determined that the stone transition was a good alternative um so I didn't really have specifications for the size however um judging from the as built I did it about twice the size that was on the asilt based on just rough estimates um rained pretty significantly yesterday morning there's no cooling of water the water doesn't go in the street unlike Ash Street where there's a river of water running down the street all the time every single time it rains um all the water from my yard rolled off the driveway right onto either the leech field or the lower yard and then transited it out to that stone transition there was no pooling or any other erosion issues that I could determine I try to go out there whenever r to check and it granted it hasn't rained much lately however yesterday morning it was raining quite hard so it was easy to determine that uh cooling water wasn't an issue so um can you clarify where the stone is on the on the plan little if you go back to the pictures um it was in the pictures some of the last pictures that you showed but on the plan um it's not on that as built it's on one of the previous ones uh the one of the ones that shows the settling Pond that one yeah so you can see it right down the bottom Spillway Crest right there whatever size that is I made it about twice that size okay so the sediment Basin isn't there but yeah there's trees right opposite the stone wall that's right in front of it which aren't represented on that plan but uh J Marque went out there and did a survey and he has uh in one of the plans in the file which shows the positions of the large trees which are literally within about 10 feet of that Basin was to be dug yeah I think I remember talking about that last time um and talking about alternatives to that um and some grading and and and alternative to having the sediment Basin but but there's not so there's not the drainage diverter um in the driveway itself that is designed on the plans um you're I did talk to the contractor about that and he said that the 2% pitch would pitch the water into the yard uh or the lower part of the yard um Kim can you go back to the picture that shows the driveway um yeah that one I'm thinking I will'll open up to the the commission does anyone have any um questions or comments on this this picture through the chair Melissa yep um I have a question Mr Burton when was that work the stone um barrier and the driveway when was all of that completed the driveway was done September 4th so it hasn't been terribly long about a week after that I took some blue stone packed it down and to fill in um because the driveway was quite higher than the the U lawn and then I put room on top of it and I seated it and I've been watering it as much as I could um with the drought it hasn't helped so the grass is growing and it hasn't eroded since yesterday when it rained really hard so I guess Melissa my thought is it might be early to decide whether um whether all of this is working as far as water runoff into the road and if there is no reason to rush a COC I'd really love to see what happens in April when we get continual rain to really test whether the systems are working M yep I um I don't know that you know it's a change it's a change in the design that we originally proved it's a change to the approved plans I don't know that I feel comfortable Ted either that this water isn't just running right down the space um between the BM and the driveway and going exactly where we were trying to it um in the first place I mean as I think Mr Burton mentioned it's been a very very dry fall um and I wasn't in town when we got whatever rain we got the other day but I'm interested in when the ground is saturated and and we get those spring rains that don't stop for two weeks and then we will really have a sense what's going on with water coming down off the driveway or just down the driveway I just think it's early to assess whether this is successful especially since it's not what was in the plan right through the chair yes so I remember having this discussion back in May and my recollection was that we directed Mr Burton to foro installation of the sediment Basin and redirect the flows through a stone area into the Woodland so it wouldn't reach Ash Street but it would ultimately get where it wants to go which is down to the stream of the tow slope is the only thing in question here whether or not the driveway is getting there or are we still questioning whether or not he should be installing additional storm water measures I think the question is um well I think the question is whether what was done here whether additional storm water measures should be um implemented to ensure that the water is making it from the driveway across the lawn and not down to Ash Street U Melissa yes on a completely different note I just got a text from Ed he says he's trying to get in into the meeting oh I see him thanks Ed are you with us Ed Ed Harrow I don't have I don't have any I don't have any updated news on my phone so okay I have an ed he's just muted um so who the chair yes um we do have in the file we have a letter dated June 11th of this year ah there he is welcome um krie Reid the DBW director did comment um you know obviously we know that the um storm water infrastructure at the the bottom of the driveway there wasn't constructed as permitted um but you know she kind of says it expresses concern with um you know runoff running into public roads um so perhaps you know the the real question is is the the runoff from the driveway being uh diver you know out of the public way kind of to the side of the I don't know what that I think it's planned South um or is it is it headed towards Ash Street that's really the um because I agree with mat I mean I think Matt was discussing at the last meeting if the runoff um heads over land and then heads towards through the buffer zone and towards the stream it's probably has enough um you know treatment over a lawn and then some vegetated area to be um you know okay okay runoff in terms of quality and volume from this minimal driveway but certainly we don't want to contribute towards any kind of icing issues in Ash Street from from this driveway right so how do we balance that yeah no I I agree that you explained that well Kim um I was thinking that the it seems to me from that picture that um if it gets into the lawn then we would feel comfortable but I see this it looks more like there's a depression there along the driveway that would divert it into the road so whether it's a um addition of a diversion burm of some sort continuing the burm from that runs along the road um so it doesn't channelize maybe that's what we need but chair has anyone been out to the site to see the driveway install who the chair yes um I know I directed Anna not to yet um just wanted to have this conversation and knowing that at this point it's probably going to need to be Lucas environmental um you know from the commission's own funds just wanted to make sure that the um site visit that we would have would be productive but if you feel like it's necessary um you know we can do that just more curiosity um you know pictures are so so as someone who takes pictures in the field all the time yeah it's tough to really get the full story so I'd be curious what this looks like in the field whether or not it cre you know confirms the concerns that are being shared tonight or alternatively gives us some comfort that the runoff from the driveway is actually going through the front yard and down to the woods you know it's clear to me that the driveway is pitched towards the lawn looking at this picture uh the question I think is what as Melissa posed whether or not that initial area without growth is acting as a conveyance Channel down towards Ash Street or it's just allowing flows to continue and to the front yard and then the stone wall between the property and Ash Street stops FL from getting Ash Street and then ultimately gets the woods like we had discussed through the chair so I don't know I mean Anna has a ton on her plate right now but you know maybe if she feels comfortable she could go out next time it rains Kim I can put that on my list of things to do yeah I have volunteered too it's not not a big lift no it's not by on a rainy day just could do the rain dance mhm get out of the house for a little bit too right yeah um yeah I think that's all I think that's all we need to really feel comfortable so Mr Burton are you amenable to um kicking the can down the road just a little bit longer and um I don't think we need anything else from you at this point we just need to make a site visit and feel comfortable yeah that's fine I can uh depending on who comes out I can talk to them about maybe doing something about that area right in front of us in that little picture and raise it up uh so that water is diverted to the left or perhaps or something like a speed bump or whatever that goes across that would Channel water into the yard okay yeah and like Matt said it's hard from pictures so maybe it's obvious when we get out there and we see you know but um we just want to make it make sure we're comfortable that's fine I just need directions and uh you know what it is you guys want and specifications and I'll make it happen Okay thank you you're welcome should we continue this one out a couple meetings since there's no rain in the forecast you your weather up it I did a quick check and the next two weeks look awfully dry okay yeah let's do that so the ne that would be November 12th and I get a motion to continue to November 12th so moved and a second and all in favor Ed hi Jim hi Ted hi Janine hi Matt hi and Heather hi all right next up we have Rogers three single ter way another request for certificate of compliance are the chair happy to provide an overview of this one sure so three single ter way is was a new single family house with Associated septic grading and utilities from 1995 so the house just went up for sale a few months ago and it was caught in the title search that a certificate of compliance had never been obtained by the original builder of this property so the current homeowner who's the original owner um got with maradon applied for a certificate of compliance Lucas environmental did a review in September and provided quite a bit of comments um there seemed to have been a driveway expansion in some recent years and quite a few trees cut between the driveway and the resource area the original approved limit of work was at 56 feet off the resource area there's a landscape area that extends to within 36 ft of the resource area and the driveway is now at 44 ft off the resource area some of the driveway as well as some other features outside the commission's jurisdiction are off property too which was noted on these site plans the um applicant has reviewed Lucas's memo and provided a response they received a letter from the homeowners association stating that they were okay with that portion of the driveway being on their property um the asilt has been rised showing the tree stumps that were cut in the trees that were cut in approximately 2022 there was a bunch of brush files in the commission's jurisdiction which have been removed and the applicant went ahead and created um a pib medallion area adjacent to that driveway so I believe the applicant is on the call tonight if you guys have some additional questions um and want to discuss the differences from the approved plan to what was actually built and exists today okay thank you Anna um do you have the approved plan do we have the approved plan handy yes hang on I'm just making our work here okay beautiful trying to highlight the um partent information so um this is the approved plan from 1995 um so somewhat minimal um this is the 50 Foot here and this is the property line it looks like okay so the original driveway it's kind of right here mhm all right so the new driveway is over the leech field okay got it now yeah existing Le trenches yeah and then so this is the property line this black line and then this um highlighted yellow line is the 50 Foot no build yeah so we do have some um encour in here okay let me pull up um the photos from Lucas environmental as well um since we do have that the homeowner on the line do they want to add anything to the description here as to sure yeah my name is John Rogers I'm property owner there for past 29 years so I purchased the house from L Hallmark properties um and the when I approached the house all the fencing the swimming pool and the driveway is exactly where it is today um and all this landscaped area is exactly how it was delivered to me 29 years ago um I never was informed that there was a wetland there I never thought of it there is some rocks with when it rains there's some runoff there that goes down to a bigger stream several hundred feet downhill behind the the property um and so that driveway that you see on this plan uh was as is the only thing I did is in 2014 I think it was um I had the driveway rebuilt and it went over everything the so the driveway did not change other than the section that you know was is close to that black and yellow line now I did extend that that area was basically a grass and hard packed area our kids used to we put up a batting cage in the winter we put up a ice rank there and that was an area that was just hard packed dirt uh and in 14 when I had the driveway redone I just decided to expanded a little bit in that direction unknowingly you know I I just didn't know that it was a any sort of wetland or protection uh there and I also didn't check my property line I assumed my property line was a little bit further uh away and I was within the property line there uh property line is not an issue with the HOA that owns that lot I take care of the front of that lot anyways with irrigation and cutting it and uh maintaining it um and they've provided a letter that's in the file that says that they have no problem that the corner of the driveway and the Landscaping is on that lot uh so basically for 29 years we've used that area exactly as is haven't changed the thing other than repaved the driveway and when we repaved the driveway we didn't cut any trees down or do anything uh the trees uh were cut down two years ago uh mostly because they were starting the fail we were getting limbs down on the driveway uh and hitting cars and so they were big enough where they could hit the house and if you were they were identified as trees that would have problems by um an arborus that we had a few years earlier uh and if you would to look at the stumps you can see that the middle of the stump is hollow um and so that was the reason for cutting those trees down at the time it was more of a safety issue than anything else okay so and we you know again we were an hour away from closing from selling the house several a couple of months ago when this came up and now that that deal is busted and we're have remarking the house but uh no one's willing to buy the house right now until we resolve this conservation issue and get the COC so I'm hoping that we can get that done okay no I appreciate you coming in um to close close this yeah we and again as Anna mentioned um maret did place I think about six or seven pibs around the property as well um all you know indicating the you know protected conservation of what land areas okay so those are those the ones that are shown on the plan right now are um exist on the trees in time so the new homeowner will be well aware yeah and and it's in our listing right now we've made it clear that this is an outstanding issue and then once it's hopefully we get this you know a COC and uh the homeowners be made fully aware that that you know area is protected they can't you know dump anything do anything with that area okay so um this happens unfortunately often we find people in this position and and this is one of the reasons why they're recorded and part of the deed and yeah I never got recorded as part of the original deed otherwise I would have known about it not for you unfortunately um yeah so but we do have um some encroachment here this will open it up to the commission members if anybody has any comments on um potential restoration to close this out or not um the fact that the trees were were um you know compromised and dying I think yeah and there know and there are lots of pictures in the file as well both from Lucas and myself but there are a great number of trees still in the area so did you review this site sorry was that to me yes sorry yes Joe I I did review the site um I think uh there there was a good review of my of my comments um I have not seen um any of the uh newer information that may have been submitted with the vibs or the locations of the cut trees um I did note in in my uh initial comments that the uh the area where the cut trees uh are shown is also um pretty devoid of any herbaceous or shrub layer uh it's mulched so that would a potential area within the 50 or even beyond the 50 that uh if the commission was to be looking for some some plantings for mitigation that a spot that it could be done and again that and that mulch has been there for 29 years so I it's not been matter of fact I've brought it further away from the woods to basically to save money on mulch we'd encourage that yeah um okay I guess my uh suggestion maybe would be to a little more proactively try and pull that line of mulch back maybe with some as Joe said some more shrubby um either plant P ings or ground cover or something to that effect um to build up that vegetation um in the buffer zone rather than it being a formal planting bed and mulched um and in what area specifically um definitely in the in the in the 50 where the yellow line yeah is and maybe on the off property you know the part that's not your property um and by the way I think Dave maren's on the line as well who you know spent a lot of time on the property as well and he was the one who placed the pibs mhm so the pibs right now okay I see pibs on the tree line right there yeah and I there are some I took that show a couple of the pibs in place okay Dave do you have any additional thoughts uh I think it might be I think I think it might be a good idea to to maybe uh put some plantings in that existing uh mulch bed uh and maybe even uh take the corner uh from that last one that's uh the last pib that's closest to the street a little bit to the right uh right there maybe turn the corner and come back down uh single ter a little bit and put another Medallion there but maybe that particular area um uh that that mulch area should be probably planted a little bit um maybe uh the brush piles have been removed so it it might it might be advantageous to maybe do some blueberry bushes in that particular area and then uh encouraged a new homeowner to uh uh sort of have no more mulch uh beyond the propy line and kind of let that go wild I don't know if this is the proper place but C at Western Nurseries is a real good resource for native plants and so if there's an issue where think planting needs to be done to get native plants go talk to Trevor yep I I'm probably going have the so I'm because it's not my property um I guess I'd have to talk to the associate about what to do whether I do it or they do it too um um again I've just maintained it as it was delivered to me so I'm happy to do it but um you know since we now know it's on the HOA property um you know I'm not sure if they have any responsibility or if if they just want me to do something happy to put any plan things there I just want to try to do it quickly so we and we've already moved out of the house it's sitting there empty um and uh and so it's somewhat of a hardship right now yeah I think there's a short window here for planting season that you could get them in yep um quick and and we could CL close it out um through the chair yes Kim perhaps a simpler and more effective or a simpler and more effective solution is just to move the pibs up to the property line and let that area Ren naturalize through the chair that's exactly where I was going to go because my worry is I like the idea of revegetating and removing the mulch but if the pib stays where it is there's nothing preventing the next owner from saying oh there's the pib because they all follow the pibs but up to there I can do whatever I want and then we're right back over started yeah that's a good suggestion is there um place to to put the pib along the property line or can you put some stakes in um with the pib mounted is that question yeah we would have to put those on a post uh there there are no trees we those trees that were chosen were the ones closest to uh the driveway furthest away from the wets so we'd have to install probably uh perhaps two or three posts to the um when you saying to the property line or um I think it would be the mult um I guess where the planting bed if that's the planting bed line it goes all the way to the uh driveway yeah well between the property line in the driveway is is primarily grass mhm yeah and know you don't want it sticking up in the in the grass but I guess on the edge there through the chairs we just put it at the edge of the planting the planting bed right yeah that's what I meant on edge of the which edge of the planting bed are we talking about right there where those red circles are that's that's the limit y yeah yeah and then I would say just extend it a little closer to the road one more but yeah that works for me and then we can uh maybe replace the removed trees with some planting and let all of that go back to something more natural on the south question mark I don't know if we're north south on this but page South yeah well if we went South we'd have like John said would have to check with the uh Highland Park Association to put plantings on their property but at a minimum those four red dots which should be uh post with medallions I agree and I would encourage asking the HOA can we replace or or place some plantings in this section okay okay and and just just to be clear we're talking about plantings in the section somewhere along that the where the mulch is or the yellow line is right now right in that general area yes yes yep y okay but also just to be clear we're also talking about letting this area go natural natural yeah no more maintaining it no more mulching it yet right and yeah if the pibs are there we'll have to let a new well again if I can sell the house but um well to let a new owner um know that so they welcome to give us a call if they have any questions yeah I think it well there'll be enough signage there that it should give people pause right so yeah which is the idea of it I assume so yeah yes Matt try to simplify this a little bit sure it seems like the pibs that Mr M sorry I'm gonna that Dave put up there because I'm gonna mispronounce your last name uh are pretty well placed we've got one right on the property line on a 12inch maple we have a pib on a double Oak that's you know slightly off property but for all intents and purposes is at 75 ft buffer we have one on a 7in birch and a 10in ash right near the property line it seems like all we really need is one additional pib down by that 17inch stump at the corner of the driveway in lie of putting one in the middle of the lawn uh down by the street so it would seem one additional pib would accomplish our goals and then if we can get some blueberry or other native plantings to kind of fill in that mulch area on the HOA property with the discussion with the HOA that you know to let it renaturalization of the landscaped area we have pibs that'll inform the new land owner generally where they should or should not be going and everything on the property except for that little triangle near the 17inch stump is already lawn and would presumably be maintained and allowed to be maintained as on and and that just might make this just this a little bit simpler for everyone involved M yeah the um just I know it's not shown here but there are there are several shrubs um along in that mulch area as well and and trees is uh well the tree he's he's marked the trees but um there's there are several shrubs that are ly within that mulched area so but we'll plant wherever we can plant more you know whether it's blueberry bushes or whatever native plants we can get we'll plant those this week if we can the chair yes Kim I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you Matt more than welcome keeps stepping in right before I'm gonna say the same but go ahead sorry um just you know having the experience having you know been the person in the office kind of Fielding these phone calls and these inquiries coming in um if a new homeowner comes in and they see you know a bed that even if it's not freshly landscaped if it has you know mulch from a few season past and some shrubs planted in it they're going to assume it's their property just like um this homeowner did if there's not specifically signs in front of it that says this is actually you know a no-go type area um yeah I I would encourage if we really want that area to be natural I would encourage greater clarity through signage and if I might add it's not in the middle of lawn once what is south of it is left to go natural it's right on the edge of the lawn once the Earth does with it what we hope it will do yeah the only um the only Mark if you look at the red dots the four red dots one of them already has a pib right um the the other two are fine that along the bed I think the one that is closest to the street probably needs to be moved towards the edge of the bed because it's in the middle of lawn right now I if I think that's my you know I don't know much about this but I think that'd be fine then you'd have four pibs all along the bed area basically indicating not to touch the bed through the chair it might be I I kind of uh agree with Ted it might be in the middle of lawn but there shouldn't be lawn on the other side of that red dot and so that's what we want to go back natural we don't want it maintained lawn yeah I mean the the the best barrier um would be a fence like a split rail fence in my opinion but um you know that's that's my wish my wish item um to be clear delineating line in a situation like this but I think um yeah the lawn it's going to be hard it's going to be a hard change to turn that lawn um into to for someone not to mow not to continue to mow so um there's got to be a strong strong sign there chair is that what we're trying to do here not allow them to mow is that something that was originally approved the the Landscaping on the homeowners lot I think we're just talking about the property that's up for sale right now we are we're issuing a if if I understand this correctly we're entertaining A coc for the property that has the residence on it correct so the lawn on the HOA property isn't anything that we're entertaining tonight um or the landscaping for that matter yeah that would I mean I suppose that would be bringing the HOA into the Conservation Commission to talk about encroachment I think though we are also at least I am looking for some mitigation for that corner of the driveway which has gone inside of the 50 so by asking for a a clearer and more Northerly uh do not disturb line that's part of mitigation it it's not just looking Beyond this property it's it's help us make this whole area better and um and I think that's fine I think that but I think that that that last Red Dot out by the street if it's put on where the the edge of the mulch is as opposed to the middle of the lawn and it's well outside the 50 and the 75 foot um um area then you know I think that's probably a better call because I again I can't stop the HOA from mowing that lawn or taking care of that lawn mhm okay um all right all right so at this point in time we spent a lot of time on this um application here so ultimately we're looking to restore um or yeah get look for some mitigation um for the impacts that have been made in the buffer zone which was not approved previously so I think um establishing that pib along the red markers that you have there Kim which generally follow the existing planting bed line um I think I'm I'm happy with that and um by putting some plantings in that area would just be encouraging the new homeowner to do the same going forward um I have a question yes Dave so if we uh put the three medallions in the red locations I assume that not to confuse the new home buyer we're going to remove the pib in the 22inch Oak and the 7in Birch down at the South End of the uh planting bed near the driveway we don't want we don't want to yeah right that comes and the other one comes off as well next to it yeah there you go yeah and leave the three Reds plus the one in the tree already at the 12in maple yeah I think you could probably put one on that well that yeah you can't pull it on a stump through the chair yes Kim I would really discourage establishing a pib off property that's why I moved this one up here I don't know if that's how the commission feels about that but um you know to Matt's point we're looking at a coc for this property it just so happens that the resource area is on the adjacent property but we still want to encourage this homeowner not to encroach not only on property that isn't theirs but um you know for within further within the buffer zone yeah no that that makes sense we just need to establish the line on the plan and in the field yeah and and and I not to bring it up again but the only question I have is that last red one um that's on the property line near the street I think it's going to be confusing if it's in the middle of a lawn if it's you move it just a few feet towards the you know the curve in the um in the Border there it's I know it's not on my property but I don't think there'll be a problem with that um just just so um I you know I'm not having in the middle of the line I think is going to be a bit confusing and it's unclear you know does that go all the way to the continue down the the next lot over the HOA lot all the way down to the corner of the street so it's probably a bit confusing through the chair yes Mr Rogers is is that area by the end of your driveway is that mulch as well where it says looks like a telephone handle an electric handle there's uh yeah there's an electric um box a telephone box and there's a uh Juniper Bush that's um there I'm not sure if there's a picture of it um I don't I think that's lawn yeah it's well it's lawn and then you know there's a uh yeah so you see there oops that if you go back to that picture so my this is the street and my drive there on the left and that yeah so if put the pi at the edge of that mulch bed that would get it out of the lawn keep it on the property line um yeah I I still think it's going to be a bit confusing to people in terms of I agree that whole lawn area that goes down to the corner of the of Wedgewood what happens with that which is all HOA property through the chair in my opinion moving it to the edge of the bed just encourages the new homeowner to maintain that lawn that's off property right I mean I'm fine if we want to put it there I just was I'm not sure what it means for the HOA that's all yeah I think we'd have to have a discussion with the the the HOA um they they mow that Mr Rogers or you mow that right now um I typically mow it but it it changes from time to time depends who gets there first their their lawn guys or my lawn guys right now it happens to be the same Lawn Company so they the same Lawn company takes care of my lawn as the HOA and they just r that area okay but my I my irrigation system goes all the way down to the corner of Wedgewood so my irrigation takes care of of all that lawn all right yeah it's a that's a tough it's a tough Corner yeah is it fair to say that it's lawn outside the 50 Foot buffer where lawn would otherwise be allowed yeah I think so I think so I think we could probably end the move point then yeah I think so too um yeah I think you know this is a this is a dated plan or you know 1995 obviously it's we're kind of working with what we got here um we need to work on our education education and Outreach I think so I personally I'm okay with eliminating that last dot um yeah Melissa I I guess I would say that I don't have a strong enough opinion and generally speaking I'm with you and I wish we had a fence all the way along there and let the HOA deal with the lawn as they would um but I'm not going to ask Mr Rogers to put up a fence to get his COC um but I I certainly think for future hearings that I'm getting tired of people ignoring posts with medallions on them and on newer developments I'm going to begin pushing harder that there needs to be a fence um but on that last Medallion I don't have a strong enough opinion it seems like there's good arguments going both ways and whatever the rest of the the majority of the commission thinks I'm fine with that okay I think we could probably uh reach out or rate when we have our new agent on board uh maybe that is a good assignment to send a friendly letter to the HOA um to address the adjacent lot and notify them of um this decision by the commission and that you know we're do not want this bed landscaped um potentially and see if they're amenable to talking to their landscaper um and addressing the landscape bed anyway and that that portion of their property oh okay um so we need to get the plan updated um and hopefully some plans and or plantings plantings in there can we can we do that for the next next meeting which is October 22nd uh Mr Rogers is that yeah that's yeah I'll make sure the plantings get in before then uh and Dave you can you uh I assume you and I can talk and you'll do the pibs where they've indicated yes we can we can do that by then okay okay for the chair yes did Joe have any additional comments from his uh review that we did not cover y Joel uh no and I thought you did a good good job of uh going over my comments okay comments All right so can I get a motion to continue this to October 22nd the chair just real quick just to provide some clarity for the applicant or Mr Rogers um all right some weird thing going on all our Google thing must have thought I was talking to it um can we clarify where and how many plantings we're expecting so that everyone's on the same page yep good point Joe do you have any um recommendations on that for this situation blue I know we talked about blueberry bushes but um uh suggestion how many or a standard to follow yeah well there some shrubs there already um I think uh blueberries are good possibly some dog Woods maybe like a gray dog wood it's not in a wetland so it doesn't need to be a wetland plant [Music] um think for a minute on something else that might be good looking for primarily shrubs or some additional trees I mean if you wanted some trees a few trees in there some red maple would probably be be appropriate um yeah I think we were going for shrubs but the chair yes um witch hazel but um um do we want to require um plantings on property that's not owned by the COC applicant or do we want to just recommend that they area be planted if possible yeah I think we want some maybe some plantings because there is a triangle there right this this spot yep yep and then um and then I think like I said I'd like to follow up at some point in time with the HOA on the rest of that area through the chair as far as a density you know something uh six to eight feet on Center so six to eight feet the square divided by 36 to 64 somewhere somewhere in that area chair would it be fair to say we're looking for 8 to 12 shrubs within the area shown in purple on the plant to supplement the existing shrubs yeah you did that math out I trust you I didn't do the math I'm just gauging based on the scale and the size of that polygon that it's probably going to be about 8 to 12 because the picture showed there there were probably four to eight shrubs already in that footprint some looking better than others so if we just supplement those in in the Judgment of uh the engineer landscape architect with what species and spacing then I think we're happy at least I would be yeah the can we have can we suggest that or just put in the notes that those shrubs are are native yes absolutely um through the chair and I can you know an and I can provide a um plant list and um you know try to highlight the plants that are you know appropriate for that like facultative back up Species so the applicant has a few more choices all right Kim when do you think you'd be you or Anna would be able to provide that list because I'll probably work on this tomorrow I'm sure within the next day or two okay all right to the chair one quick yes so that little blue uh wedge there is about 33 feet long uh and it's the widest location at the near the driveway is only 9 ft so just to give some sort of perspective there for the spacing of the plantings is uh uh not a lot of room there to do uh 12 plantings is that what the board is looking for I am not um I don't have a great Green Thumb so I'm going to say you know based on the types of shrubs that are chosen um who the chair yeah go ahead Kim sorry Dave can you repeat that what do you think the approximate square footage is well I was just looking the the uh it's about 30 32 33 ft long from the driveway down to the point and that the widest spot up by the driveway is only nine so it goes from nine down to zero and about 33 ft so if you did a spacing of you know shrubber uh you know 5 foot on Center you're probably looking at five or eight uh shrubs not quite 12 is that okay sounds like you're right in the 8 to 12 range yeah I was say I just the magic number yeah all right yeah six along the line and then a couple more um in between okay good all right any more questions I think we're good so can I get a motion to continue to October 22nd some moved second uh all in favor Ed I Jim hi Ted Ted is an i Janine I Matt I Heather I and I'm an i great thank you no thank you see you next can I ask one more question um so assuming that plants are in those medallions are in at the next meeting um is that all that's going to be needed to get the COC yes okay all right thank you okay next up we have 38 Stony Brook Road another request for COC Anna yes through the chair so 38 Stonybrook Road um new construction single family house with septic um in the front yard um house mostly or completely outside the 100 foot Boer Zone sorry I had a note to double check that um the approved plan showed a lawn sloping down to the Wetland in the backyard um in when we got a COC application the application came back that instead of a sloping lawn we have a 12 foot approximately 10 to 12T Boulder retaining wall with a flat um backyard the wall is located partially within um a drain adment on the property as well as slightly off property on both sides the approved limit of work was at the 50 Foot buffer zone the existing tree line is at 48 feet um when Lucas environmental did their memo they questioned um whether the wall was the um permanent movable barrier and also noted that there's still some um erosion controls left in place on the site the applicant did review Lucas's um memo and has provided a response to Lucas and the commission um they provided a structural engineer letter um regarding the stability of the retaining wall um indicated the wall is the pib the existing pipe at the base of the wall that Lucas called out is is from the foundation drain and they have not yet as of their response talked to the neighbors or the developer about the walls on the neighbor's property and in the Tran easement so the applicant Mr Silva is on the call for additional questions from the commission okay thank you Anna uh Mr Silva are you there here I am here can you hear me yes do you have anything to add to what an said or have you talked to any of those parties since then um I have not talked to them not talked to them yet um I'm still trying to we're in the process of moving from the old house to the new house so there's been a lot of things being happening at that point that on my list to discuss with both neighbors because there's slight um slight overage of the wall out both of their property so I can talk to both neighbors as well as Prime in regards to the uh the the Basin area that area right there that you're look from from what we're told some of those Boulders are on there even though they're past the fil fence uh the approved filt fence from from land use that's in the area that wasn't within the buffer zone so being extra safe I guess we contined on the wall that was started off by the neighbor U as part of his area to stay away from the the Basin drain so there's probably bad assumptions made in terms of just continuing on his work make sure that we stayed past the sil fence and away from the the buffer zone the piece also the 48 um fet Mark there was no tree cutting done within that so we stayed within the outside of the 50 ft um and Dave and I took a look and just verify there were no dumps or anything that were cut so we've confirmed that it's just a natural a natural ending of the tree canopy at that 48 foot Mark all the cutting was done past that point before the sil fense area okay okay um so I think one of the biggest questions I have in my mind which I I guess is not answered yet is that wall and how it might affect the access to maintain the infiltration or the storm water basin I have that answer they they access that wall from the other side of the neighbor's house on the right so that's the access point to that Basin the Basin ends on my side so was very little of that Basin within my property line the majority of the Basin is on the property on that you're going over right now okay that's there's not there's not a lot of access from my side due to the wall that's that's why I like the idea that being the pib is people mess with the Wetland I'm a big a big fan of wetland so I don't want people to go and do that that's why rock wall I thought was a good way to do that um with all the rocks that came out of doing the foundation and so and so forth I just did not expect the uh the septic guy to go as high as he did but it's there now okay um Joe do you have anything else to add to what Anna went over for your revieww I think the only thing I I didn't here if an had mentioned that there's some pile of lawn clippings behind the pib marker um so those might want to you know stop dumping long clippings in that area um through the chair yes sorry Joe um yeah Mr Silva had indicated that that pib marker and those lawn clippings are actually on the neighbor's property um so I can follow up with the neighbor on that point and then I I also didn't hear was there a comment on the erosion and drill barrier uh is remaining in place just needs to it can be removed I want to confirm that with the with the board I'm okay to do go back there do maintenance Etc it was my understanding I'm supposed to stay on the opposite side of the fence um so if you're good with me going over I'll do the maintenance I'll remove the sil fence Etc I just want to make sure that I have permission to go on that side of of the pib yeah it looks like your site is stable stabilized you have all on and not you know so that there's no need for the silt fence anymore so we would definitely um request that you would remove that since the site is stable perfect yeah that was it as far as any additional comments for me okay um all right so so what we're being asked to um approve here is the you know it was it's a modified wall modified um from the original approved plan and whether we're okay okay with that does anyone on the commission have any questions or comments at this point Point um this is Ed so my only question would we have a filling that went on inside the 100 foot offer Zone and perhaps we can get an opinion from our fabulous agent or from Joe as to the appropriateness of that who the chair yes Kim I guess I'll take a broad stab at that um there was some deviation from the approved plans so um certainly you know the approved plans had a gentler slope and then a shorter wall um I don't think that the wall was constructed substantially in a different location than was approved um in terms of you know buffer zone preservation I think we have substantially what we had approved I think what we're looking at here is possibly a slight increase in the velocity of the runoff that might be coming off the property um because of the you know flat lawn and then steep slope and kind of um increase in the boulder wall but I don't think there's any difference in like quality of runoff um that's coming into the Wetland from this property um or or or overall volume um I think is negligible so um not the most ideal situation but also I don't think the most detrimental in terms of inputs to the Wetland versus what was originally approved by the commission does that answer your question Ed okay yeah I think I think in my opinion it's something that we would have entertained or potentially proved um originally cuz the impact area is the same the lawn footprint is the [Music] same um and yeah maybe the boulder wall will be um a more difficult barrier to encroach upon to get to the buffer honestly um so I think I think I'm I'm I'm good with this um anyone else anyone from the public think we have too many on the line have anything [Music] Jim I just saying I'm good with it okay all right let's take a vote on it then um can I get a motion to approve this uh certificate of compliance and signatures by Anna so move second right uh all in favor Ed hi Jim hi Ted hi Janine hi Matt I and Heather I and I'm an i so you are all set Mr Silva thank you thank you so much thank you and if you can also send me those plantings that are are local I need to do some more Landscaping so I'd love to do those as well if you can send that to me absolutely for ho I live in the same neighborhood as Mr Roger so if you need an hii contact just let me know I'll shoot that off to you appreciate it thank you thank you all have a great night all right next up we have um key 60 Pine Island Road another request for certificate of compliance the chair happy to provide an update for you all on 60 Pine Island Road um if you guys remember Mr Keeley has come to the commission a few times over the last nine or so months um he had uh it was a demo rebuild single family house on Lake Masano down on Pine Island Road when it came time for the certificate of compliance there was additional impervious area within the buffer zone that had not been approved by the commission um the commission had asked to become in more compliance with the Lakeside Landscaping model that we've been following recently so um the applicant has removed lawn in um six portions of the property added five additional planting beds um he had an extensive plant list that he has provided um to the commission um of identifying how many and what species in each of those planting areas I went out to the site on September 27th at request of Mr Keeley um the plantings are all in place they look good the only thing is that now that it's fall the ferns um are dying back so the ferns don't look great right now but we don't wouldn't expect the ferns to look great um so at this point in time I believe that he has followed the recommendations of the commission um and the planting looks good and they're also extremely committed to um come spring if any of these plantings do not survive the winter they're more than willing um and want to keep the plantings and have the property look nice with those plantings so my recommendation to you all is that I believe this property is ready for compliance I will leave it up to you guys all right thanks Anna um I flipped through the pictures it looks like everything like you said was um done that we asked so thank you very much Mr key for working with us on this um does anyone on the board have any questions or comments um on this CC in the work that was done since our last meeting okay hearing none I think I'm ready to go ahead and um take a vote to close this one out so if I can get a motion to approve the certificate of clients with signature by Anna all right um do a roll call Ed I Jim I Ted I Janine I Matt I uh Heather I and I'm also an i great okay moving right along um we have 86 rlm Street request for certificate of compliance um Anna do you have a synopsis on this one for us I sure do um 86r Elm Street was a new commercial building um down between putam pipe and where building blocks Academy is kind of tucked in the back along 495 um the applicant applied for certificate of compliance lookas environment mentals uh comments came back that the silt fence um and erosion controls were still on site and the site was stable so they should be removed as well as there were some leftover PVC pipes from construction that should be removed from the buffer zone um the applicant uh took those comments have removed the erosion controls have lumed and seated where the erosion controls were in place and have removed those pipes so at this point I feel that the um site is in good condition and ready for um your sign off great um Joe did you have anything else to add on this one nothing further looks like everything was addressed good okay awesome all right um unless anyone has any questions or comments I'll ask for a motion to approve this certificate of compliance with sign by Anna so move second all right all in favor Ed hi Jim hi Ted hi Janine I Matt I and Heather I and I'm an i guys look at this BMP that's impressive that's a cool one just need that was metal meshing to stay in place for the next 30 Years yeah you'll have to check up on that one but it's like a good example of that um yeah it was a nice gabian walls yeah all right storm water moment made my whole night worth it just like that okay next up we have 19 tamarlane another request for certificate of compliance yes through the chair 19 tamberline was a new construction single family home with Associated septic and site work from 1995 um again this one was caught during a property sale that there was no certificate of compliance I don't believe that this is the original owner but it could be the original property owner in this one as well uh Lucas environmental provided a review back in April of 2024 um their comments included the approved limit of work was 41 feet off the resource area and the bottom of that um armored slope there is at 30 feet um the applicant was asked to update the site plan to show um some additional features on the property included some walkways to the driveway um and there was also some brush and grass clipping piles within the buffer zone the um applicants representative has provided that updated site plan and um proof that the brush and grass clippings have been removed so at this point um um even though the limit of work is closer than the approved with that stone slope going down to the buffer zone I'm not concerned about additional encroachment into the buffer zone there and I believe it is ready for compliance okay great thanks Anna um anyone have any questions on this one to the chair yes Kim this may be a question that doesn't have an answer but did we resolve the situation with the note on the plan do we did anybody um okay hold on oh you know what yes as build information is based upon an on the ground survey where EDC could corroborate on the ground Janu okay yeah it's just it's yeah I think it originally did not didn't even have the it was just very um caveat the survey was yeah I believe you had updated yeah through the chair I believe you had asked for some additional and that was okay this was one of the things that I had like asked for right before I left and was wondering if it kind of the loop got closed but it does look like there's a little bit more information about like when the survey was taken so yeah through the chair I think we also a lot of these um 1995 orders used to the commission used to require that there was a deed reference that there was Wetlands on the property um and that the commission has moved away from that requirement so we have not been asking applicants to create new Deeds to add that language um so far so I apologize I think I missed that one on one or two but it's been the policy of the commission not to make a applicant redo their deed to add that language as well okay all right B's good with it I'm good with it um can I get a motion to approve the certificate of compliance with Anna's signature or Anna to sign for the board I'll make that motion this is that I'll second all right all in favor um Ed hi Jim hi Ted hi Janine hi Matt I and Heather I okay um three School Street request for certificate of compliance through the CH three School Street um another new construction single family home with a subject system and Associated site work from 1995 um this one was brought to um the applicants attention um they had come in formally to talk to Kim and I a few months ago about a potential project on the property and we were able to determine that this um certificate had not been closed out and advised the applicant that the commission likely would um want this dealt with before they entertained a new application for work within their jurisdiction on the property um so they applied for the certificate of compliance Lucas environmental went out in September um their comments were that the um site was overall in compliance with the approved plan with some minor deviation um they did note that there was additional buffer zone and resource areas on the plans that were not confirmed at the time of the certificate of compliance application so any future projects would need um a well- in delineation and review um so at this point I do recommend um the commission issue a certificate of compliance for three School Street okay so just a point of understanding for me um you said there's additional wetlands resource areas there's some called out as 2024 are those approximate locations or are there's additional in addition to those I think at the top of the page if you scroll up it just C AI edge of bordering vegetated Wetlands 2024 um down by yes through the chair Joe could you clarify that comment uh here there's an offsite BBW um um which would need uh if any work is proposed on this property um that would need to be delated because the buffer zone extends onto the property okay so the 20 the edge of uh bvw 2024 with those flags those are confirmed and flagged on the property and we're good with those um but there's additional off property is that 100 foot buffer zone 20 I'm trying to clarify in my own mind here because I I was not on the site for this particular one so Tom had this one but there's a BBW along the Eastern side of the parcel um with the Wetland uh shown on the ASV um I think it's just a reminder that U any future work would would need review of that that W on line okay through the chair yes just a point of clarification I think that the applicant has taken the initiative to have an updated Wetland delineation on the parcel because they are planning future work and a filing so that might be why you're seeing these 2024 lines that are kind of in a separate area than the certificate that we're talking about okay Dave did you want to add anything to that I see you yeah yeah so I don't I don't believe Lucas has looked at those 2024 Flags uh we had those flags so that we could have an intelligent conversation with Kim and uh Anna about some future work on the Northern end of the property so you know right now what we're talking about is down by the house behind the house Wetlands from 1995 but any future work I think uh needs to be reviewed uh to the Northerly of that house number three okay so that's the part we're not gotcha yeah not approving any of those with this y okay thank you for clarifying um uh through the chair yes I I noted that uh there were some uh retaining walls um rock slope and a split rail fence that were not in the original as built I don't know if those were uh had been added or not they had not red or revised okay Dave do you know if they're included on this the the uh retainer walls adjacent to house number three uh that's inclusive th those are complete and there is a retainer wall to the north closer to to Pawn Street that's shown all right I I misread I misread that I'm sorry my apologies they're shown on the approved the they're shown on the as they weren't shown on the approved oh okay y okay perfect okay anything anything else any other questions comments oh I think we're good all right can I get a motion to approve this certificate of compliance and for Anna to um make the signatures this is dead so moved second all right all in favor Ed hi Jim hi Ted hi Janine hi Matt hi and Heather hi and I am an i great thank you very much yep thanks for sticking with us Dave Al righty have a good night bye bye um all right we're done with the certificate of compliance list um next we have recommendation to the select board for like Masano weed citizen Advisory Group commission representative um so Kim I believe you said that uh DPW requested that we fill this previously um previously Jeff had been our representative to Lake maspenock weed citizen Advisory Group um and I believe that we can either someone from the commission can can fill that role um if somebody wants to wear that hat um I think we can also recommend um someone participate for the commission if we want to do that so I guess guess I'll ask if anyone on the board is interested in being our representative on that Advisory Group know we all wear a lot of hats well I'll be first to say that I cannot take that on right now yep I'm out J's out um um do do we know uh I guess like how often they meet sort of what the commitment is do you have any idea kimer Anna did Carrie bring that up uh and unless you know more than I do I I know from just coordinating with Jeff that I think that they meet once a quarter yeah through the chair I don't believe it is very of but I'm just trying to pull up Carrie's email um like I'm I live in the lake Masano area so I don't know if that's a like Oh yay that's a good thing or uh like no you know because I know Jeff did so I don't know if that's what we preferred that it be somebody who lives in the lake area or not um it did sound like there was quarterly meetings but then also quite a few social events which were optional so you know pros and cons oh wait I gotta reconsider through the chair um Carrie did not um indicate how often they meet so it looks like um Joe baliga is the chair um so I'm happy to reach out to him and um ask some more clarifying questions and we can bring it back up at the um next meeting on the 22nd he's your neighbor he lives he lives like right over there a few houses down um but yeah I yeah I'll do it I'll volunteer I won't say I'll do it I think I have been nominated but I volunteer yeah the social events I gotta I know it yeah I believe it's an appointment by the select board so if the commission agrees then I would let the select board know that um Janine is the commission's appointment to fill Jeff's seat on um that group if that is the will of the commission agree it's my will y I would certainly appreciate that Janine and sure thank you I would also nominate or support that recommendation I think it probably helps that you live on the lake when Street back but you know I can see it when there's no leaves it was in the listing when you bought the house right like right seasonal I have rights to a dock you know okay even better awesome thanks Janine sure um all right uh do we have any public forum requests sna no I do not have any for you okay through the chair this is Ed yes Ed tardy Ed because I'm tardy I am going to be I think the last to welcome Heather to the Conservation Commission thank you thanks Ed I appreciate it um yeah Heather our meetings aren't always full of certificate of compliance that was just the theme for tonight from 1995 yeah you could see my notes I said CO's okay what are these acronyms I was decoding a little bit but I think um I think I'll catch on yeah any any questions anything like that I mean it takes a little while to to yeah get the lingo um there is it's way late notice but if you happen to be interested there is an MAC Conference on the 19th Mass Association of conservation Commissioners you will get emails from now believe you automatically get on their list um I don't know if I'll be able to make that work personally it's tough yeah no it's it's so last minute but they have um they have an annual conference or they have a couple conferences and those can be helpful they do some basic level intro things for commission members to get up to speed on different topics I I found them helpful um so I I know it's kind of late but one thing that I I it's just a question swirling in my mind that we certainly don't even have to address tonight um but um Kim you had mentioned quality of runoff and I just wonder how is that assessed like what do you mean by quality are we talking about nutrient levels like what are we talking about in terms of quality um you know can that be defined in some way or does the commission Define that in some way that was just one thing I was curious about yeah that's a great question um typically like when I think about it I think about like total suspended solids um in the water and then the like the nutrient content um but I mean those are the good be okay but I'm sure like Melissa or Matt could chime in too we could talk for hours yeah okay yeah all right well next time because it's late but on the head yeah it's primarily it's a total suspended solids and nutrients in Massachusetts we have the benefit of some storm water standards that apply to larger projects these single family homes don't need to necessarily meet those standards sometimes Ming okay but anything larger than a four lot subdivision any commercial developments industrial developments you know they all have standards they need to comply with to ensure that a number of things are being met with storm water runoff one of which is the quality of the water leaving the site okay thanks and Mac does virtual trainings as well and one of those they're like one hour hour and a half hits at a time on like week night evenings um one of those trainings is about storm water um so that could be helpful I can send you that and um yeah send that to me thanks Kim yeah yeah I think I I think I also have like an acronym cheat sheet I gotta find it but um and I can send that along to you I think I made it at at some point nobody shared that in acronym's candet with me you're so experienced you didn't need it yeah well I was here before you there you go um I also just wanted to before we uh wrap up I just wanted to throw out there and recognize Anna Anna has um taken in and and taken the lead on processing all of these coc's um um this glutton of certificate of compliances that we received right before I left and I got out the door to Lucas so a big thanks to Lucas environmental for processing all of these and then a big big thanks to Anna for taking on um managing and um reviewing you know all these coc's the coc's are small but they end up generating the most customer service um because they're typically coordination between homeowners instead of Engineers who you know are typically a little bit more informed about the process so thank you very much to Anna she's keeping the she's keeping things chugging along for sure well done Anna thanks Anna yeah thank you Anna you're welcome we're gonna see a few more at the next meeting but not not as many thanks Dan I was delighted to see that we actually had some that were with new houses and not 10 years later yes absolutely and actually we'll see probably maybe not at the end of October but I think um in November you'll see some of the T Brothers Chamberlain Wayland ones that you guys have been wanting to see so it'll be interesting to see Lucas's comments on those applications and speak of the places that I've already sold yeah all right I think that's a I think that's a wrap um would you like a motion to adjourn I would would you like a second yes I will make that motion you need seconds yes all right all in favor Ed I Jim I Ted Ted is an i Janine I Matt hi Heather hi and I am an I thank you everybody thanks everybody Welcome again Heather bye good night thanks good night