yeah I think we should be all set uh Ted um two and a half hours I don't know I was hoping to see more cross outs on the agenda when I signed in yeah I think we have a long agenda tonight we'll see yeah I was I was looking for those black lines I couldn't believe we had five new hearings yeah they rdas though so that's not too uh well depending a lot a few of them are at any rate all right we got another minute um we don't have a quorum yet through the chair you're live on hcam TV thank you Mr Hamilton see okay Joe's coming in now an is not going to be with us tonight all right Matt's coming in now so we have a quorum can you taking the notes tonight and doing your typical uh well commission you know meeting stuff through the magic of Technology yeah we're just live note taking is not strictly necessary anymore any more okay good you know if you're listening mad I think the meeting minutes are all but completely obsolete now that we have video and uh transcription technology yeah that's just me though y that's a good point but we still have to do the minutes um okay so at 7 o'clock we have Quorum uh I think Matt is with us let me just make sure hey Matt how's it going good how are you good thanks um okay so let me read the remote meeting script for this evening pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2023 this Hopkin and Conservation Commission meeting will be conducted via remote means in accordance with applicable law this means that members of the public body as well as members of the public May access this meeting via virtual means jine is coming in now too uh particip participants May access this meeting through the remote meeting link is posted on the meeting agenda and through the town's online calendar when required by law or Allowed by the chair persons wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in the meeting May do so by raising their hand or otherwise signaling their intent to speak this meeting is being recorded please take care to mute your microphone unless you have been recognized by the chair we'll now confirm attendance of members and staff please res uh please respond with present if you're on the call uh Ted present Melissa present Matt present Janine present and this is Jeff Barnes um and for staff uh Kim present Anna will not be joining us tonight she's on vacation and Joe with Lucas all right good evening everyone okay so let's start with the work session items okay Jim's coming into the meeting now as well so Ted if you drop off we have no issue with a quorum so you should be good great thank you I'll be here for a few hours anyway okay okay thank you Ted appreciate you uh signing in while you're traveling all right documents for review uh 20th Century's homes one whisper way certificate Appliance uh brunstein 8 cobblers Way threeyear Extension permit to Brothers Chamberlain wh subdivision oneyear extension permits for uh several of the parcels the town of hopkington 90 104 Hayden Row in order of conditions and mass Laborers Training trust fund fund uh 37 East Street order of conditions we went through these at the last meeting uh any final comments Kim yep so on the um town of Hopkinson Hopkins school edition order um I was waiting for LC to give me final buffer zone impact calculation numbers so I could insert those into the order I did receive those uh late this afternoon so I'll be plugging those into the order uh before issuance so that would be the only kind of last minute edit okay uh were there any questions or comments from commission members and if I'm get a motion to have IM sign these documents uh on behalf of the commission members present and issue them I'll make that motion and the second second and we'll do the roll call Ted hi Jim hi yeah I am here yep how how you doing Jim I'm all right thank you excellent Melissa hi Matt hi Janine hi and d and I okay all right draft minutes for review none this week um or this meeting uh Heritage properties the trails at Legacy Farms the Seas and assist discussion uh for the storm water pollution pre vention plan peerreview reports Kim did you want to give us a rundown of uh what's going on with the trails sure but first I was hoping to see if any representatives for the trails was on the call I don't see Peter um on the call do you no je okay no I did speak with Peter this afternoon and he indicated that he had intended to attend um he did have another meeting at 6:30 so I'm wondering if it's possible or rather um beneficial for us to kind of bump this and come back to it so that the appit can have the the benefit of the talk absolutely y that sounds good can Okay so let's move along to key 60 Pine Island Road this is certificate of compliance discussion is Mr Keeley on the call yes I am thanks question yes good evening sir good evening okay um uh Mr gatle just signed in Kim So after this uh discussion we can revert back to um the trails okay so uh Mr key or actually Kim you want to give us an update as to where we're at with uh your discussions with the applicant uh since the last meeting please sure let me just pull up another uh plan a few different plans for to look at oh my goodness there we go okay so this is a request for a certificate of compliance for a single family home on Lake Masano 60 Pine Island Road what we're looking at right now is the original uh prop proposed and approved plan by the Conservation Commission um specifically at this point we've kind of honed in on this area that's closest to the lake so what the commission approved was a patio with pavers these are natural they're labeled as um Natural Stone steps and then these dark lines here are retaining wealth um you can see this dotted line here is the limit of work and Associated erosion control barrier so this is what the commission approved this is the as buil plan so you can see we have our dock we've got Associated retaining walls patio area a patio area in the center with a fire pit and then two kind of a twostep stone situation um down to this lower tiered area which has grass let pull up some quick photos to refresh our memories of what this looks like as well so we've got this uh Stone stepping area with the fire pit and then we have this lower area which is maintained as a lawn area the commission had requested that the applicant mitigate uh for the additional work associated with the steps and the patio and also to come into compliance with the Lakeshore landscaping design which the commission has asked U many other applicant on the lake to install um for the water quality benefits so Mr key has proposed the following um this is a sketch so he took the ads Bill plan and then kind of did a little coloring sketch for us so this is the existing condition you've got the patio the retaining walls grass on either side and this is what Mr key has proposed there are five planting areas since the last meeting Mr key has added he added the fifth planting area and expanded the third planting area so in total he added another 100 square fet of mitigation area at the last meeting um there is some discussion about the extent of the mitigation that was requested at previous meetings the applicant came before the Commission in two meetings in December of 2023 so um I reviewed the meetings the recordings uh I know Mr key reviewed the recordings um and it does appear that um based on my interpretation of the recordings that the commission had asked for this lower area to be grasped um I know that Mr key had expressed you know the desire to maintain his access to the dock um and you know the commission had discussed kind of a pathway to the dock um so that's kind of where where we're at so the commission needs to discuss um whether or not you feel that the proposed mitigation um is adequate and meets with the the intent of of um you know what you're looking for here and uh what has been permitted at other other properties that we're te and and rebuild uh great thank you for that overview Kim uh so I as well went through the uh two previous meetings uh where this was discussed um I think the long and short of it was you know the commission was looking to have the uh This Grass strip you know along the perimeter of the lake vegetated um with the understanding that you know there would be some grass area allowed to provide access to uh the dock and the steps for the swimming area um so I think this uh you know this is a step in the right the Direction in my opinion um you know I'm happy that the area to the left of the dock there um which would be the South Side yep uh is vegetated um you know I think they can in my opinion you know I'm one member of a seveners commission um you know they think there needs to be a little bit more done on the north side of that strip you know and again this is kind of a new performance standard that the commission has been requiring uh for new development on the lake where you know we're looking for this area along the lake uh you know adjacent to the lake to be vegetated so that we maintain the health of the lake there's been a lot of issues with you know weeds and nutrients um and pesticides and herbicides getting into the uh Lake ecosystem you know which is in part a result of these grass you know heavily manicured grass landscape areas you know right up against the lake thank you Kim uh so that's my two cents I'll open it up to the other commission members through the chair I'm with you and I think that if we could look at Kim the um the latest sketch I think that we've asked other applicants along the lake in the last two years to do much more than what we see there um and I think it's disappointing that we're in this spot yeah I think we you know just to uh sorry just to uh go back I think at the second meeting um that we had which was December 19th I thought that we made it kind of clear of what the expectation of the commission was we brought up some graphics of the you know the standard that the commission is looking for which is based on you know a Vermont uh I think it was their Department of Environmental Management that they put together that we're kind of using uh because the state of Massachusetts hasn't developed their own um but that was there we go yep thank you thank you Kim you know that was what we you know the expectation of the commission was you know and again allowing we're not trying to preclude access to the lake uh for the applicant to get to the dock into the swim area um but you know we need to be more cognizant of uh you know protection of the lake ecos system again as I had mentioned so sorry um to interrupt but go ahead if there's any other comments no I would just say that the the what we're seeing on the screen now shows that access to the lake is easily done through pavers through Shrubbery you don't have to have grass to have access to the lake and I would love to see much less grass see some pavers or some gravel through a differently vegetated border area and I agree when I watched the last two meetings I thought that we were fairly clear on that as well thank you it's not out of line with what we've asked other applicants along the lakefront to do Jim yes Jim um yeah I would agree I also look back and it has been our standard recently and we want to continue with it as a diagram that as a diagram that Kim shows and we're trying to be consistent we need to be consistent and uh plant things rather than grass or he benefit and not a detri so anyway that's my pi and we were very clear before IO that as well Jeff thank you Melissa yeah I agree okay um so uh Mr key um any comments and response to the commission's thoughts here I can propose um we need to have access from the two the two steps to those areas the areas four and uh and five on the North side I could connect those areas in that little infill where the grass is and create the filter strip that you guys are looking for so okay um I actually I sketched something up expecting this so can I don't know can you guys see me or what I'm holding up uh unfortunately not um do you have on do you have a PDF on your computer if I if I shoot you an email Kim can you open this definitely yeah even if you just take a picture with your phone and then send it to my email yeah when me uh emails it's flying to you now wow techn ology I know huh and and don't don't neglect my artwork here um so we could connect that whole area on the right I didn't draw plantings in I was just trying to shade shade things out um the last plan can you pop up the uh the last one that I did on the South Side in area one the um on the left the left side is the southide there's an access point to get down there with the wheelbarrow so we can do clean up down there um this is showing Stepping Stones against the water and planting it in the middle back to the one I just shot over I'm suggesting that we flip that and leave the you know just leave the grass connector it's stable right now I'm also suggesting that doing all this other work it doesn't seem like there's um I'm sorry can you go back to my other one this area three is is on a slope I could plant I'd like to not plant that area it's not near the lake it doesn't seem to be um kind of in the but your the concerns there are it's very Rudy it's under the two two p a pine tree and an oak tree um is sandwiched in between there I can still take out some of the grass and put the stepping stones in that I was going to do before but on if you if um actually go back to my other [Music] drawing see where it says grassp by the dock it's like five feet wide where the S is it's narrower as you get closer to the patio area I could plant something kind of where the second well with where the dock ends down to where the stairs start I could also put a filter similar strip there yeah I think that would be um yes I I would support that okay yeah if this if again I don't want to jump ahead of everybody else's input on this but um and all the way down I need to I need it's it's going to be like 20 inches wide know what I don't want to do is plant a 6inch strip and say haha I planted a sixin strip I want to be able to plant something that's going to live there and um so I was proposing oops I was thank you I was proposing from the dock to right around where the stairs start uh no I'm sorry the the the circular stair for the access point we might be if You' support that I'll I'll figure out how to get something in there all the way down I I just yeah yeah I I think that's good with me and then those other areas to the Brown in the right there will also be uh there'll be plantings there as well correct so we we play cornhole there so those stepping stones are where we put the cornhole boards not that you care uh the left hand side is going to be all ferns um uh heading back uh or down down on the diagram um is is we going to call we're calling it a fern Farm but in that area and we're going to try to put some ground cover around where the stones are on the on the other side um there like a little rect rectangular uh yeah so that whole area will be ferns those those are stones that that we can stand on to blle uh and then we have a mirror on the other side of that right on there so our intent would be to try to put some kind of a low ground cover we've got some um uh my wife's got some things from Garden in the woods that that uh seem to fit the bill in our native to the the area Okay I I think that seems reasonable to me but uh I'll also open up to comments from the other commission members who the chair yes um Mr KY are you still proposing to do the plantings in this area or does this plan not we want to eliminate that we want to okay we're basically swapping out square footage for the North Area and that strip on the bottom I I that area in the center is going to be is going to be would be tough to plan anyway the stuff done by the lake will grow it's it's soil it's it's got sun it's not underp directly into the pine trees that it grow better I'm just trying to sketch as we go so we all are talking about the same the same stuff I'm proposing everything that's on this in brown is is work that we're going to do plus that blue strip um along the lake so just to be triple short you're agreeing Mr Keeley to go from the dock to the stone steps into the lake not the stone the curving Stone steps correct I'd prefer to do the curving Stones it's going to lead me with a 20in path to walk down but if that's what you're gonna make me do to get this done I'll do it yeah I I I am very happy to see the blue line that Kim is drawn for us yeah and that's going to be about two feet feet width is that you said 20 in it's going to leave me 20 in to walk on so how how wide will the plantings be about about some anywhere between 2 feet to maybe 18 inches on that side okay it could be wider it it doesn't really show it accurately on the plan it's wider near the dock and it gets narrower as it goes down it's not super skinny it's just you know I don't it it look it it it had look dumb to have a you know 12inch strip of grass that you got to go down and and uh I I confident we can make it happen and and and not and not just be checking a box but have it actually serve the purpose I'm comfortable with that as long as Kim signs off on it uh through the chair I'm comfortable with it but I am just curious below where it says edge of pond is that grass that slopes down into the lake I saw that too it slopes down the grade and what part of the work is going to be to soften that slow okay could we put something over there so it's not grass right into the lake Kim I discussed that before I I don't know what would and you said the grass is better from an erosion control and to leave it rest yeah through the chair so um the applicant had proposed like a gravel placement of gravel on the slope and I thought it was not a good idea cuz it would need to be maintained like the gravel might roll into the lake um but if we were talking about plantings plantings is better than it's it's an access I get it it's it's it's it's that's it's there it's wide enough to to walk down it's Steep and we need to get a wheelbarrow down there and that's the only access point so we built that specifically as an access point so I'm open to doing something else but it's not planting because we got to get down there through the chair Bob when you say you got to get down there you're talking about walking down the grass and taking a right so you get in front of the so the area I think what jine correct me if I'm wrong I think what you're asking about is the area Lakeside of that so you'd have a grass strip that kind of turns that corner I could probably plant some I'd have I'd have to go look at it just see what the pitch is maybe we could put a it's you'd have to there's not the yeah I I can probably figure out how to put a ground cover or something in there that's that'll not be grass yeah you you got to go down you got to turn and get and and get over there so yeah I think from our from our perspective and speaking for myself at least that's one of the more critical areas because you've got all that vegetation all that grass area running down to the lake whereas that little strip and it's certainly nice to have but that little strip downgrading in the wall and all the perious patio and perious pavers we're not talking about as much runoff traveling through that stretch of the property so kind of the bookends of the Waterfront North and South seem to be where there'd be the most value of having some plantings yeah I don't have a ruler I I mean yeah I I get what you're saying we'll we'll figure out how to plant something there hope hopefully it lives and doesn't fall in a lake because there's not a piece of wall some of it does doesn't have a wall there okay all right so I think um yep so those two orange areas that Kim has highlighted um and then the areas that were highlighted them Brown on the previous plan so that's uh that sounds okay to you Mr key yep okay well I think uh so any other comments from commission members I think with there you know if we can get this implemented um you know I think we're good to uh you know sign off on this so um this looks good to me thank you for you know working with the commission um let me just ask if there's any questions or comments from the public um okay so Kim do you want to work with Mr ke on selecting you know appropriate vegetation for those two areas yeah I'm happy to do that for sure as long as we are all okay with the sketch the approximation of the sketch um just to be sure we've added this area this area and eliminated this area Mr ke also added the area this area here yep right y good catch we're connecting these guys so um speak now or forever hold your piece commission members and Kim So connecting that piece and I believe he was tying it into see we've got that cross-hatch wall there there's a 43 foot La Dimension label uh not the one lak side the one just in Inland of that go left left right yeah right there so everything to the right of that on his yeah that kayak area think that's all vegetated correct I'm gonna move the kayaks over to create a bigger area on the right exactly just like that yep so The Kayaks are going to come left you can if you go back to my other sketch it shows that um it's it's it kind of mirrors what you just did but the kayaks basically go left into that last box that you drew and the area on the right planted and then there's a connecting strip that there you go yeah that kayak area is all included right in it c yeah okay yeah we go okay great uh thank you Miss keil we appreciate it you bet so what's the next step I mean I work with Kim I this is this is going to take a while to get all this work done yeah if you can work with Cam just to identify the vegetation you know on the plannings and then once it's um you know installed or and planted we should be good to go yeah we'll probably do you know I'll do just like a final walk inspection and then I can make a recommendation to the commission and then there's another meeting to review this again to get it closed uh Kim can make a recommendation to the commission Mr ke so you wouldn't need to attend okay unless of course you I'm sorry of course you enjoy our company and you would like to attend yeah you're more than welcome I think I'll be good after this um uh as far as the plants go my wife spent dozens of hours driving up to Hadley and going to Garden in the woods and doing all kinds of brand damage trying to find out what's available and it's available this week and it's not available the other week we're going to use native plants how you know how much do you care about what actually gets planted I mean our intent is to stick to whatever we draw but it's possible that we draw something that they're not going to get till next year we just going to you know pick something else do I talk to Kim about that or how does that happen real time yeah you can you can talk to Kim with about that so if something needs to be swapped out as long as it's native we're we're fine with that we get the intent of the Native and it's we want to you know my wife's a gardener she loves you know doing this kind of stuff so she's going to want to get it get it done and use a design how to get it done so okay yep okay that's fine okay thank you sir shoot me an email like I can approve on the fly yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah what I want to I do want to take a shot at picking it so we have something to go from it otherwise we'll drive ourselves crazy so I I want to do the effort of mapping it out and then as things change we'll we'll you know run it run it by a make sure we're not doing something dumb sounds like a good plan thank you Mr key appreciate it sir bet good evening all right so we'll move along to the new hearings uh we're at 7:32 uh felby Bin 29 ois Road this is a notice of intent to replace a dock and I'll read into the record the Hoppington Conservation Commission will hold a public hearing on Tuesday June 25th 2024 at 7 BR land line to hear all persons interest in notice of intent filed by Thomas um fely bin to replace a dock the location is 29 ois Road assessor map r28 block 121 lot zero okay do we have someone on the call for the applicant or the applicant yes uh Dave maradon good evening Mr good evening I'm here with Thomas and uh Aaron owners of 9 okas Road um in front of you at the bottom of the page is okas Road uh the lake is at the top uh North is straight up the page the hatched in area in the middle is the existing dwelling uh small shed to the uh sort of left front of that driveway along the left hand side uh we have a cover underneath the road uh flowing towards the lake Northerly uh we have an intermittent stream along the right hand side um we have uh Bank flags on the Westerly edge of that stream uh flagged by uh Scot Heim of Northeast ecological uh we have uh a uh Bank along the river including the existing retaining wall uh small little beached area to the uh west of that patio existing patio um tree lines are pretty much uh right on the left and right hand lot lines uh we have uh the lawn in the front the lawn in the rear um and we're here this evening um for just to replace the dock uh the dock that you see that's floating is has a small walkway that's 2 feet wide by 13 long to a dock that's uh 10 x 12 uh we're looking to just replace the dock uh same exact size same exact location same exact elevation um so uh We've started our filing with uh chapter 91 for the doc we've advertised and we're almost ready to file uh the plan um conservation and planning and and building all have a copy of that filing um we do have a flood zone adjacent to the lake obviously um and all our work is within the buffer zone and we do not have a d number yet uh and I was wondering if if there was a letter on file did Joe get a chance to do a letter we haven't received anything yet Joe did get a chance to do the letter you didn't I apologize if you didn't receive it um I can send that over to you right now my apologies well maybe if Joe's on the call maybe Joe can just sort of highlight his his comments if that's okay with Jeff with absolutely Mr Mark so is the is the dock temporary or permanent it's it's going to be replaced with aluminum one uh it's it's an old wooden one now floating on some barrels and it's going to have an aluminum foot and it's just going to sit there uh right on the floor so very little work to install um and like I said exact same location and size is it removed at the end of the year or does it stay intact uh yeah we would remove the structure or store it yep it would be removed at the end of the year okay got it okay all right Joe do you want to give us your H comments please sure um uh nothing too significant uh we did uh look at the site um confirm that the stream the site is intermittent um agreed with most of the deliniation flags um we did believe that uh the Wetland was a little bit UPG gradient of uh 8 to 10 ft UPG gradient between Flags three and six I don't think that impacts much what they're proposing to do um a couple of items that uh weren't included with the information we reviewed uh there was no project narrative um uh some inconsistencies on some of the forms uh that we pointed out um and I think the uh one of the things is that no pibs are indicated on the plan and if the commission may want to discuss if those are appropriate at this time um and the other issue is that uh we don't know the status of a chapter 91 license for the existing structure or for what they're proposing to uh to replace it with okay all right thank you uh Joe so I mean the pibs I think the site's pretty fully developed so I don't see the need uh to put those in on the property it's a fairly small property as well that's kind of my opinion but I'll leave that open to comments from the other commission members um you know I think the uh delineation is fine for what is being proposed Doc is not going to be permit installed it's going to be temporary with the footings set on the lake bed um there's no excavation um so I guess you know one question for the applicant is you know for permits like this that we're doing on the lake um you know we are as you may have heard with the last uh discussion you know we are looking for some type of kind of improvements along the perimeter of the lake with his grass um to to put in kind of a barrier uh to mitigate any kind of runoff of nutrients you know pesticides herbicides that type of thing I'm just wondering if the applicant you know might be amenable to doing something like that at this location well yes uh we can do that we already had some Fair planted with no grass but we still do have some grass along so I guess against it's so on on the drawing there they're looking for some idea as to where you might want to do some plantings yeah we can do that something on yes so they're they're amenable to doing some plantings uh uh to the right of the existing patio right uh just down down yeah right in there Kim yep right in that particular area uh connecting it to to the existing tree line yes that would be super uh if you would be amenable to doing that I know this is a small kind of improvement to the site y um but if you guys were willing to do that that that would be great um yeah we would uh so let me just open up to comments from the other commission [Music] members yep right in that area there perfect um does that sound reasonable to everyone on the commission Jeff it seems pretty straightforward replacing the doc I think that's awesome if they can improve with the filter strip or some sort of plantings great thank you Melissa um okay so Kim did you have any other comments um we don't have the file number it's kind kind of policy to punt this to the next meeting until we get the the file number um yes um so I was just wondering if the applicant can provide um I usually do report to D and on the order of conditions the land underwater impact calculations um and what I mean by that is just let me know um what the footings are um the footing plates the square footage and how many footings and then it's usually just something like six square feet six square F feet of of impact to land underwater um and the commission cons considers that to be a Minimus um so just the information on how many footings and how big the footing plates are um and then if we we do typically wait for the D file number um if the applicant is amendable to those plantings if at all possible if we can just get like a DOT on the plan just to show Even if we if like you know sketching on the PDF yep yeah we can we can update the drawing yep okay awesome and um I looked it up I sent the uh report to your AOL email address instead of the JDM so I apologize I'll TR use the JDM okay yep okay uh great thank you I think pretty straightforward comments uh additional questions from the commission or the audience don't see any hands up okay great all right thank you Mr bin appreciate your your assistance and compliance thank you very much thank you sir have a good evening so are you Jeff you g to continue this yes uh so can I get a motion to continue the hearing to the next meeting which is July 16th so moved and a second please a second and we'll do the roll call Melissa hi Janine hi Jim hi Ted hi Matt hi and d and I great thank you very much thank you Mr marar okay moving along uh Riverside Services 71 South Street this is a request for determination of applicability for a commercial site Improvement or improvements and I'll read into the record popping and Conservation Commission will P will hold a public hearing on Tuesday June 25th 2024 at 7 ver online he all person's interest and request for determination of applicability filed by Riverside services for the following site improvements surface regrading rehab rehabilitation of storm water infrastructure and installation of a fence guard rail conduit and pavers the location is 71 South Street assessors map r29 block five lot zero all right good evening hello it's Olivia stassin representing Riverside services tonight hey how you doing Olivia very good nice to meet you all nice to meet you too you want to give us an overview of the project please yeah so um 71 South Street is an existing commercial site um along South Street um this plan is actually north is our page left um so um the buffer resource area is um yes so this is the right orientation to start you um where North is um at the existing property and then South Street would be west of that and then the natural resource buffer area is East the current building is situated right in the middle and then surrounding that site is a concrete and asphalt uh parking drive and then on the upper area on South Street in Hayward is um a porous uh parking area um and then there's just existing fencing all around the property um back in February um you know we came on site and we just applied for some exemptions we thought we just needed to do a little bit of chain link fence fixing here and there um you know as we were on the site longer a couple other projects came up and it's why now we have this plan in front of you today today um so we are keeping all of the existing Pavements around the building and then you can see that our goal is to try to um upgrade some of the visual appearance we're trying to fix some of the damaged and broken um infrastructure such as the guard rail and fences and then um outside of the buffer we're trying to work on some organization to help um the function of the site so the pictures that Kim has brought up now thank you are of the current site um so the work that has been done has been all outside of the 100ft buffer and was part of the exemption approval so that was um repairing some of the existing retaining wall um installation of Evergreens and trees along South Street interior updates to the building replacement of the chaining fence but we stopped at the buffer and then upgrading signage and plantings along the road entrance what we're looking for the commission to talk to us this evening about is we have um we would like to continue fixing the chain L fangs and do that within the buffer um we'd also like to um replace the existing guardrail fence which is yes right where Kim's cursor is so the head and parking along the buffer um the resource Edge there's a broken guard rail that would um that needs fixing along that edge there's also um a really kind of damaged Swale that has um yes in that corner um it's not functioning properly right now so it would be to rehabilitate that and bring it into um a functioning State um in addition to that there has been a well proposed on the haywards street side right there and in order to connect that um we would like to connect a conduit trench for the electrical connection um and then along that Hayward side where there's the Stone Forest hatch thank you that's Square um would would like to be proposed as a storage Nursery um and trees had been removed there so it does need some fine grading um just start to level it off a bit um and the stone aggregate would be porous um and the goal would be keep out weeds um and have a a storage area that's level um and then by the main entrance um part of the beautification would be to convert some of the cracked old concrete and bring in some unit papers um and that would also help with um fixing some actually it's closer to the building Kim up a little bit more at that entrance where there's a paper hatch not there closer to the building around the parking yeah you're getting close perfect thank you yeah so um just converting a little bit of the damaged concrete um and upgrading that and it would help with um allowing some of the compliancy of the entrance door to be um regraded and level because it's not at the not currently um and then part of our mitigation plan would be to install a 2:1 ratio of trees um along the buffer um so we have outlined um a white spruce common chokeberry and then by the building we wanted to include two um English Oaks um for their form one more that's along the Wetland uh boundary in the back sorry yes so the white spruce and common choke barrier along the back Edge correct right where Kim is pointing so in that corner and then a couple in the other corner and then the English Oak although not necessarily you know um the the native don't follow the native species they are actually you know retained within the foundation planting and held within you know a big island of asphalt and so we wanted to kind of discuss that because it's an aesthetic choice and maybe you know I'm not necessarily part of the actual buffer okay uh all right well great thank you for that overview um uh Joe did you want to go through your comments please sure um we did look at the Del delineation and only had um a question on on one of the flags WF uh 13 which we thought was about six or seven feet low I can't see the numbers um right here but that was the one it's the top yeah right where her cursor is yep okay um the uh was already brought up some of the questions on um Native uh species and uh no cultivars we recommend that you know Natives and non- cultivars be used within the buffer zone however I do see the the location for the English Oaks is not really um you know it's pretty isolated um um and you know commission could certainly discuss whether or not U that's an appropriate plan for that location um see there a couple items um we weren't sure if the filing checklist was submitted um a couple of uh uh items on the forms which um could be updated but may not are not critical um the most recent delineation date should be noted on the plan and one that we're looking at had an older older delineation date um I did have a chance to look over the response to comments that I think came in uh today um and I think that most of the U comments um have been addressed had a question on the aggregate what type of aggregate it was it was going to be perious or impervious it looks like it's a loose loose pervious Stone that's proposed um and I think uh there was a question on one of the plants with the identification and that was the chokeberry so that's fine um and the applicant uh was agreeing with some additional abroi controls that we had recommended I think the only question that remains is maybe the uh the use of some non-native species within the buffer zone and then with dumpsters observed within the 50 Foot uh buffer zone yeah the work is going to be completed um and the dumpsters are scheduled to be removed within the next two weeks okay no they're they're out this week the dumps are G this week they'll be okay so those are just that was for site work those not that was for interior building demolition and this we are we actually get our we had our Rocky permit today so the dumpster is going away today or tomorrow okay good I yep yep and then um so the proposed Nursery uh staging area is pervious which is great R uh because we were afraid that that might trigger some additional storm water requirements at the site if that was per uh impermeable U so I think we're good there and then can you kind of elaborate on the Swale area that's going to be improved what what exactly is going to be done there uh Olivia we haven't um drawn up the plan we wanted to talk to you guys first to make sure that work within the area um was actually approved um but I do know that um we can provide the information as um we start to design it or start to think it through Scott septic um has signed on to help perform the job and um will you know be part of our team as we work through that um so that's where we are with the Swale is that we want to have approval and then we're going to start to gather the team together and can give you any of the information that we start to um think about okay um so I think we may you know before we just go ahead and approve you know the work without knowing exactly what's going on is putting the cart before the horse um Kim you know and we have two SAR Engineers on the commission fortunately um you know I think we would want to see and you know Scott is it Scott septic yeah that's on the team you know if they have a professional engineer that can you know possibly draw something up take a you know take a look at what you guys want to do and draw something up for us to look at that's kind of the you know the methodology uh Kim did you want to comment on that yeah Jee I mean I I agree with that approach um you know some other questions that I'm just kind of thinking are you know this this site was originally constructed in the 1980s um so the storm water infrastructure is likely um out outdated by today's standards um so you know some of the questions that I kind of come up for me is like what what function was this Swale providing specifically what inputs are coming into it um what you know what what is it receiving um has the you know looking at the volumes what was it is it intended to infiltrate was it intended to to detain kind of like how how do we rehabilitate something until we know what we're rehabilitating it to purpose was standard yeah um not that it can't be done um just that like what you know what are we aiming for with this Rehabilitation yeah that's a great Point cim and and how many other catch basins on the property Olivia that you're aware of there are there is one kind of by the arrow um where the garage is by the building and yeah that that looks pretty outdated they have um they have separators in those catch Basin I believe oh they do okay yeah um because they had to they had to have them cleaned out before we closed so I'm pretty sure they have them along the along the parking lot Edge there yeah I guess Matt and uh Melissa you know what are your thoughts on you know to Kim's point you know this might be an opportunity to you know potentially do some upgrades to the storm water system at the property is there any kind of preliminary thoughts um you know that you can relay to Olivia to relay to Scott septic um you know the other thing to Olivia just is the plant isn't stamped um you know by a PE so you know presumably when Scott septic does their design you know for the Swale and you know the proposal you know that would um the plan would be stamped but uh Melissa Matt did you have any kind of thoughts yeah Jeff I mean my my initial reaction here is this is an noi not an RDA there's quite a bit of work happening uh immediately approximate to the well and this this feels like it's a little more than a than an RDA uh from a storm water perspective yeah it's any tenness Redevelopment within the buffer zone it's always great to see kind of what little hanging fruit at a minimum is available to provide some additional treatment for storm water leaving the site what that wants to be is going to really hinge on what's out there today where it is what it's capturing and then you know making decisions from there yeah I Echo that has some of the same questions Kim brought up with what's exactly going to that soil so that it gets sized um and it's so close to the Wetland there uh the edge of the resource area um you know for groundwater and things like that so um yeah it would probably be a good idea to identify if those are separators just so everyone has a good handle on maintenance requirements too things like that yeah I think it would be good to have like whatever catch basins are on the property Olivia to have those you know depicted on the plan um I know you said there was one near the arrow there um and I think if you can trace where they Outlet too yeah um that would be helpful that um we've we've done some upgrades at a few properties along South Street and down on uh West Elm or Elm Street excuse me um you know where the uh there was improvements of the property and you know the the the commission you know was requesting some storm water improvements and we really kind of put it on the applicant to come back to us you know with recommendations we weren't um we weren't uh you know doing the work and determining what we wanted done it was kind of like you know what can you do to improve the site so maybe you guys can take an exercise to think about that with your engineer and uh you know come back to us and maybe make some recommendations you know that would I think be helpful is that like an exhibit with some options um or is that options with I think you just you what you would like to do okay yeah and you know we're not we're not looking for you to do anything crazy uh you know just if you can make any kind of incremental improvements you know at the site related to storm water um it's just something that the commission views very favorably I'd like to at least point out the site has been poly managed Through The Years here and we put a lot of resources and time to improve the site and our intent is to make sure we you know we get everything right here so I mean you can tell by just driving by the site the difference in the appearance and we're still working to finish what we're doing so on top of that you know we'd like to get this fixed because the the prior owner just obviously didn't pay any attention what he was doing along that area yeah no AB absolutely uh Mark you know uh I've driven by the site and believe me it's a significant improvement improvement to what it was you know and and you guys have done a great job out there um you know a lot of it is kind of aesthetic type stuff no I know um you know so you know from a town resident standpoint you know and you know resident of that area you know surely you know I can speak for a lot of folks who live you know in the neighborhood there that that you know that's a huge Improvement yeah we're gonna we're gonna continue to finish the improvements along South Street and at the intersection um just a question and I'm not this is all new to me I mean we'd like to do the fence and the Guard the guard rail is in disrepair and not safe and we're we're not moving the guard rail and we want to replace it fairly quickly and finish the fence obviously try to finish the nursery we can work on the plan for the Swale um if possible we'd like to try to get some um Direction so we can try to finish fencing and the maybe the plantings and again work on the soil Improvement along with the infrastructure um you know ongoing because I'd like to just keep going to finish what we're doing yeah I mean if you can if you can you know unfortunately you know we can't really give you approval to go ahead with you know portions of the project until the you know what's being proposed is you know approved as part of the permit process um you know what I would say is uh you know talk to Scott septic um and you know I will say you know Scott septic is you know a great little company in town good guys uh but they're not an engineering firm I have engineer that who has a wetland specialist so I'm I have an engineer on on contracts so yeah so I guess my point is you know with the septic design and some of these engineering improvements you know storm water improvements we're talking about I guess you know I don't know Scott septic might have someone on staff who's qualified but you you just may want to check into that no I I'll I'll go to the engineer that I have that that did the the original flags and they'll be able to give me the plan for the sale Rob's basically been used to do the site work because we do all the work with him and his family so um I know he's locally connected but he's also he's just for as far as us he's he's a site contractor and I I need to go and get the resources to do what we'd have to do here yeah so if you can you know if you can talk to them um and uh you know come back to us our next meeting is um on the 16th you know unfortunately we can't kind of approve pece meal pieces of the project for you to go forward unfortunately just had to ask the question yeah yeah no problem um through the chair uh yes go ahead Matt just real quick as a point of clarity on on the storm water side of things I think what would be most helpful to us as a commission is when you come back come back with an existing conditions plan that shows where the drainage infrastructure is and a proposed plan for the improvements you would like to make what you're proposing and we can kind of work from there but it's it's really important for us to both understand what exists and what's what's proposed I understand that's a great Point mat thank thank you uh Jim sorry did you have a comment no I was gonna say with Matt said so that's great glad we confirmed that uh we want that we're going to get it okay uh any other comments or questions from the commission at this point questions or comments from the public okay so we'll continue this out to the next hearing so if I can get a motion to uh continue um the uh 71 Salt Street hearing until July 16th so I'll make that motion a second and we'll do the roll call Melissa hi Janine hi Ted hi Jim hi Matt hi and I'm and I okay great uh Olivia and you know appreciate your help on this and again that you know the property looks great um out there so thank you for the efforts uh to date thanks everyone have a good even thank you okay yeah take care thank you Mark yep thank you okay moving along uh Shroyer 7 Wilson Street request for determination of applicability for landscaping and hardscaping improvements and I'll read it into the record the Hopkin and Conservation Commission will hold a public hearing on Tuesday June 25th at 7 virtually online to hear all person's interest and request for determination of applicability followed by Matthew schroyer for landscaping and hardscaping improvements the location is s Wilson Street s is map U2 block three lot zero okay good evening hello Matt's here and my wife toan is sitting right here next to me good evening folks and I have to say this is one of the most beautiful plans in my 20 plus years um on the Conservation Commission that I've seen thank you and very detailed thank you you want to give us an overview of uh what you like to do sure um terrascapes is our uh landscape architect from NAIC and about a year ago we contracted them to come to the property and uh present um a landscaping plan for us and uh what you see is the result of that there's also a grading plan as well um but this is the primary planting plan here um there's another Kim I'm not sure if it came through on the email there's a concept plan as well so that's your that's the U removals Plan and there's I think there's a grading plan right that on the same drawing it shows some minor grading that we want to do um and then there's a conceptual plan that shows the overall concept but I think the planting plan shows most of the detail as well so depends whichever drawing you guys want to look at um the Wetland flagging was done if you look at the Pavilion to the right upper right hand corner which would be planed South uh North Northwest we did Wetland flagging with our scientists to get permission to install that Pavilion which is there it's 14t X 10t Pavilion so we used that Wetland plan which was actually um overlaid onto this our actual survey drawing that was also submitted when we did the Pavilion review uh done by Elliot Peto from HOV Dale and the reason why I mentioned that is because terot Scapes overlay the the U buffer markings they're kind of light gray I apologize for that but they're about on the west sorry this yeah so you can see the the dash line there kind of faint there's 100 foot yep that I believe that's the 100 foot line and then just plan north of that is the 50 Foot line above that which carries for the most part on the south and the East part of of the of the property so most of the work that's in the in the 100 foot resource area is where Kim is showing the mouse right now right in there yeah so uh primarily we're doing a bulk transplant of some of the existing hydranges red dendrons and we're reestablishing there's already part they're partially beded already they've been there since we bought the property in 2008 um but we want to refresh them and put um some new stuff in some native species uh we saw the note from Lucas and we understand that we have to research that again and get some non cultivar native species in that area so we understand that part um yeah that's that's pretty much the 100 foot buffer right there the patio's already there um pavilion's already there the shed's proposed um you can see the rooted dendrons are some relocations are the red ones and some of the transplants it's kind of the like you said Jeff it's pretty detailed um we want to hear what you guys think um but the bulk of the work in in in the 100 foot resource areas where where Kim is showing there on the drive edge of the driveway and then in that corner by the the existing 10x10 shed in the back right that whole sort of South and West sorry south and east edge of the property is what uh we believe falls in the jurisdication of this uh this overview yeah yeah I think the uh Folks at Tower Hill are going to be jealous when you guys put this in um but anyways uh Joe did you want to uh give us your comments please sure just just had a couple of comments um we uh checked the delineation um and there was only one flag that we thought was a little bit low flag 34 um thought it was about 10t low um I know the appan just stated that it was a previously uh apparently a previously approved delineation um wondering how old that delineation was if it was actually approved 2019 when we put the Pavilion 2019 2020 right about there okay so and that was reviewed by the commission and the line was approved we were yeah that that plan for it was for the Pavilion placement um we we didn't have any objections at that time okay yeah I do recall that um yeah okay um didn't not that um there is a color that connects to a uh Wetland area to the east Southeast of the site which also cast some buffer zone onto the site um uh potentially some 50 foot um buffer but I think they're only proposing plantings um along the Eastern edge of the uh the site there um uh there was no project narrative included um although the plans are extremely detailed uh noted that the plans were were not signed or stamped as far as uh we could tell um and was already mentioned uh that we pointed out that um within the re within the buffer zone that we recommend native non- cultivar species be used um and I wasn't real clear on how much grading was going to occur um but um are there any erosion controls proposed for where the grading is going to occur and then the commission um may want to discuss bibs that's about it all right thank you Joe so I think with the you know a sing uh single family home projects you know a replanting you know I'm not sure we need it stamped uh by an engineer or a land surveyor so I think were good there in my opinion um it would be helpful uh Mr shroy to kind of you know maybe you can give us you know a verbal narrative right now about like how is there going to be a lot of excavation grading or is it just kind of going in and you know doing the plantings individually you know how how was that going to work sure uh there are F five phases the first phase is to get it's kind of hard without being control of the mouse so forgive me but the first phase is there's there's a series of roaded um Hy ranges along the left hand side of the house I'll just go left right top and bottom the left hand side of the house you have to be relocated to do all that all the patio work see all the pavers next to the left hand door of the pro the actual property yeah so the first phase is to get a some bulk transplants and get them up and in temporary bedding so we can do all the Paving work um and then once the all the paving work and all those all the stone paths that you see that are that sort of head to the West over by the tree orchard area then back up in the front of the house yeah there in the back correct and in the front of the house you see all those stepping stone walkways that's all part of I'll call it phase one and two which is the transplant and stone workor uh once that's all done there is some minor grading you see the fruit tree or to the right and that large green grass area in the front yeah right there there if you look at the grading plan we are picking the grade up just ever so slightly to flatten that out so we retain water that's really the bulk of the main grading of the house is right exactly right in that area just to kind of flatten and slow down any uh any run off into the front of the house um that's the primary grading um the rest of it is really just bedding and stoning and and sort of minor grading around the houses to make sure that we're getting water away from the house but we're not none of this work is going to be done with an excavator um it's all skid steer and hand workk um so that gives you an idea of the extent of the grading there's not a whole but really not going to disturb much soil I I think I spoke with Kim about this when we did the initial review the biggest sort of digging that we're going to do is the water uh the rain garden over by the 10x10 shed right so we are going to um by hand most likely dig a um I have to look at the drawing to see the exact dimensions but it's something like maybe 3 or 4 foot diameter by 20 in or so deep rain Garden that retain some water as a water feature right there right in that area correct okay that's really the bulk of the digging uh Jeff okay I don't know Kim so maybe Joe does it make sense to you know for erosion controls since it's there's no you know significant excavation you know other than the The Limited excavation around that rain Garden does it make sense uh you know if we have to put erosion controls in you know maybe a downg gradient of that rain Garden area what are your thoughts uh yeah I would think based on what was just described that might be the only area that U would would possibly require any erosion control that's kind of my thoughts too um and erosion controls Mr sh just you know Sil fence yep straw Waddles maybe yeah straw Waddles or Sil fence just to prevent you know if there's a significant rain event while you're doing excavation you know so it doesn't wash down into the resource area there sure um so if that could be you know presented on the plan and then you know I think the narrative that you just descri DED if you could just provide that in a written format so we can put in the file that that would be helpful it's that'll be easy Jeff because we have a scope of work for the contractors doing the work so we'll just summarize that if that's okay because they pretty much descri that'd be perfect um I mean as far as pibs I think this uh is someone listening to the Mickey Mouse Club [Music] um um as far as pibs I mean the site is pretty well vegetated you know thinking that we don't really need biibs on this particular property but I'll open up to commission members thoughts on that and any other questions or comments as well [Music] I don't know Jee I think it might be worth putting some pibs just for consistency and you the trees are there to put them on okay um I mean they're they're medallions uh Mr Shroyer so you know if you could just put them on a couple trees um you know I think that you know if that's what the commission desires that that might be helpful can you help me understand what that is it's it's basically a medallion that says you know beyond this uh specific area you know it's Conservation Area so there's no you know development allowed but essentially uh or disturbance allowed and I think you know Kim can I think in you know if we're g to what what do you thinking Melissa like maybe three or four um yeah I forget how far we usually put them but it would be like I think it would be at the limit of like where the existing like behind the existing shed or around that area behind I know it's hard to it's hard to see from the drawing but um this Plateau I'll call it this uh Halfacre Plateau that you see is actually part of a 2.6 acre but right behind where the really where that tree line is it drops off about 20 feet into a ravine so it be kind of hard to develop in there anyway so yeah I don't think develop is maybe the right it's like we get people who don't like grass clippings and throw lawn stuff and then get a fire pit back there and you know the creep of um expanding the L the the yard area is more um okay help people understand not you but for like future anyone else um who comes along the property to do work landscapers okay yeah just so you know if you have landscapers come in or you know someone to prune the trees you know there's a a sign you know that says we don't want the clippings or cuttings you know kind of dump down the Ravine into the resource area okay Mr shroy if that's okay I think what do we require Kim 50 foot every 50 or 70 feet approximately we typically require them 30 to 40 feet on Center um not sure what this I don't know why I can never remember that yeah it'd be about eight yeah about eight different little blackards how big are these sign diameter yeah you just nail you nail them to a tree you know gotcha uh you can get them from Kim they're few bucks a piece they're pretty cheap do we install them uh you can yep trctor install them yeah they are they are free for instances where we require them no really I didn't know that either courtesy of the town of hopkington no problem thank you okay um so uh yeah I think we can Kim do you feel comfortable go ahead and um issuing the permit you know subject to receipt of a revised plan that shows the pibs in the ECB location do we want to also um have the The Narrative and and the project narrative yeah okay y I'm okay that you said ECB Jeff I'm sorry yeah the erosion control just have that you know beyond the rainu there just have that kind of depicted on the plan and you can handw write it in you know hand draw it hand sketch it mrroy you don't have to have your Graphics folks you know redo the plan yep stroll Waddles uh pib locations and the narrative yeah great as it relates to the pib locations do we want to provide any guidance Mr Shroyer on where we're thinking I mean from from my perspective it'd be probably existing trees Beyond The Pavilion and shed and not pull them in tight on all this proposed plantings it's a little dicey back there it's pretty kind of steep um it's kind of dangerous even to go take one step actually I fell one time so I know um so we may have to put them on the trees there's Oaks and Maples along that edge um so they're probably within 30 ft of each other there's a there's a beach tree and Elm tree so I really can't get much further be what you see there because it really drops off really quick I could try to climb down there and get him on we don't we don't we don't want to we don't want that yeah they won't be seen you know I mean you know right yeah good point yeah Kim can kind of um Kim Kim and Oriana can give you some guidance but you know we don't want you to risk you know uh getting hurt um so you know I would say along the kind of the perim perimeter of that Marine that Ravine you know maybe every 30 to 50 feet I think is sufficient is in my opinion 200 fet if well if you count the East Side that's another 100 so You' be 300 feet divided by 50 so like you said six or seven of them there's plenty of trees to I think we I think we can make that 30 foot number 50 foot number work quite easily actually um how high up do you want them I like eye level okay so five 5 fo8 something yeah all right if I can get a motion to uh close and issue a negative determination of applicability War 7 Wilson Street through the chair yes Kim and authorize Kim to sign I was just about to say that and to have and authorize Kim the sign please so moved second and we'll do the Roll Call Melissa hi Janine I Ted I Jim I Matt hi and d and I okay Mr shya this is uh um yeah I mean your property is gonna look beautiful when you have all this done um uh maybe you can give us a tour at some point give you give you a what a tour tour when we done yeah yeah we're done we're doing both of it this year we're not going to take it all this year just because you know obviously it's it's not um all right and if you see someone that looks like me picking fruit from your fruit trees um it's not me it's someone else thank you folks very much we're looking have a good evening thank you forward to it thank you very much all right uh okay moving along um we are at one Fox Hollow Road this is an amended notice of intent for temporary access road C teac Chambers in sight grading and I'll read this into the record poing and Conservation Commission will hold a public hearing on Tuesday June 25th at 7 o'clock virtually online the he all person is interested in an amended notice of intent filed by S Simone simani saki to and if I mispronounce that I apologize to conduct a temporary access Road install ctech chamber and Associated greeting and site work one Fox Hollow Road assessor map r21 block 12 Lot 12 all right good evening we have the applicant on the zoom tonight good evening Mr chair my name is Robert finigan I am the attorney for the applicants good evening sir and also with us is Tony esposo who is the professional uh site engineer who we will be relying on as we get into some of the technical components of this okay um uh I I guess just to begin if I could just with a sort of a brief overview you know consistent with what the board was discussing in some of the earlier hearings this is an amended noi and this proposal has been in front of the board and this is the applicants making their proposal to the board as to how they want to address the issues that exist on the site today um this plan and this particular proposal was selected for a number of reasons and in particular it was selected because number one it provides the safe it a safe access way for for workers um uh that are actually going to be doing the work and then ultimately a safe backyard or safer for the residents once they're there it has um the least environmental impact on the site itself and most importantly it does not encroach upon any of our neighbors in particular our friends to the east with the Sudbury Valley trustees so it's completely contained within the site um uh itself um and so if I could just uh what we're here tonight to discuss is Kim if I could ask you look at uh uh that this is the one yes right so what we're talking about here is the temporary access road that comes along the Eastern Edge correct right down there to the line of disturbance and that provides access to the back of the property which will be for the septic completion for the reserve area and for the ultimate um regrading of the backyard you have the drainage that's there and I'm going to let Tony ESP bazito discussed that as well and the uh construction of the retaining walls and ultimately that will provide the foundation that will support the driveway which is also shown on the other planet we get toggle back between the two that will show the driveway um to the other plant yeah that one right that will show that that that this is the this this would be the proposed uh sort of completed plan showing the two different tiered retaining walls the driveway would be put in and and the rest of the work completed so a little bit of history behind this just just um uh whether this was a job where the cart was put before the horses I guess um a question that uh that remains uh to be seen But the uh the uh if you if you go to the Western Edge on either of the um plans Kim there's an easement there there's a drainage easement that there you go right there um some of you may remember not sure in uh May of 2023 uh the homeowners of Fox Hollow Road had gotten together having been abandoned by their developer and uh went before the town and and Foxhall Road was accepted as a public way in the town of foxville uh foxall uh forgive me hopkington and um but as we prepared to do that it had been discovered by your DPW in your building department that that Swale right there had been Disturbed and the reason why it had been Disturbed is because the contractor had been using that as an access way to get back to the back of the property so uh that was restored the the road was accepted and it's now a public way in in the town of hopkington however um that's left us in a situation where access and continuing access from that what I would call Western Edge along the Swale between this between the edge of the easement uh for the Swale and the uh foundation of the existing house is um Too Short too dangerous too steep um and numerous contractors have expressed concerns about the health and safety of their workers to the point where it's just unacceptable it's just an unacceptable risk we can't consider that so that's left us with the option of coming in from the other side and that's what is proposed to you tonight um it does involve it's an amended noi so it does involve an increased um uh disturbance and and encroachment into the buffer zone as shown on the plans and um but it does provide like like we we like we suggest the safest access for the for the workers it is a safe access it is not the safest it's safe and it is um completely contained within the property and we have uh spoken with our Butters in particularly the the our friends at the trust and they have talked about some of the things that they've wished yes to do um here and so um that's basically the overview of the project and I want to turn this over to Tony esposo to answer any of your specific questions that you may have about um his intentions okay thank you are you on the call Mr espo yes yes I am here it is an honor and a privilege to be in front of the opton Conservation Commission tonight um both myself and Mr finigan replied to the nine comments that were supplied To Us by Kimberly um if you wish I can go through how I addressed each one of those comments um if you and I apologize quickly for the gray shading of these PDFs were made from the actual paper plans because uh the registered land surveyor does not have an electronic stand I do have nrow ones on my desktop rather I use those or if these are satisfactory we'll continue to use the ones that we have on the screen right now um so the first question without stating a verbate questioned why there's no driveway shown on sheet two of two of the plans I intentionally left the proposed driveway out on them because at the present time there is no driveway it is just rough graded with the Contours that you see there now uh the register Lance surveyor Randy Parker went out and reho Contour uh based on uh what is there today so the reason we're not showing the proposed driveway we're showing how we're going to cut back into that Ro driveway to create the access road that is along the boundary of the subber property um we went to approximately a 3 to1 slope so that we could protect the existing dwell by not you know Excavating too close to it as we tried to raade it such that a construction vehicle could make its way down towards the back of the site there was a concern about drainage from the subber from the from the people for conservation so what I did on sheet one is I added a Cape Cod burm I called up the original subdivision engineer and asked them the drainage methodology when the subdivision was proposed they confirmed to to me that when they designed the original subdivision they provided Concepts dings driveways in the street drainage was designed to take on driveways from from The Neighbors on living sub So based on that the original driveway on the Diaz point was had no Cape Cod burn but his grading was a little bit more straightforward towards the street however during the change of rotating the building the septic system moved to the front therefore the driveway is super elevated towards the Cape Cod burm but Cape Cod burm on my plan will direct drainage towards Fox Hollow Road up to the property line and away from the neighboring parcel to the east okay moving on to comment number three there was something concern about any access by construction workers either with vehicles or materials being on the subur property to the east so what I have specified I believe on sheet two Go sheet two yeah I added a note prior to construction that the land surveyor shall stake out that property Lo and I believe at the request of the applicant they even staked out uh some points at the rear property line wetman side of the property as well to basically give the give the uh the contractor a boundary for his access work currently it's about 14 feet wide he believes that's sufficient for him to get a equipment 14 14 feet wide is going to be sufficient for the contractor that's what he that's what he explain to me okay the uh the area between the new erosion control line and the stone wall uh calculated anywhere from 30 to 35 trees in that area uh they're they look like white pine saplings ranging in diameter from three to six inches in that location I may have overestimated the number of trees but I think I'd rather do that than underestimate and I spotted comment from Kimberly I believe it was about replanting that area with eight shrubs uh I'm open to suggestions from kimy and the commission on what kind of shrubs theyd like to see and also if they would be require in their conditions a planting plan prior to Construction onward to well that covers I believe comments four and five uh six is a long one it basically asks for alternatives to be perfectly honest either ways of access given the U limitations of each side and what's constructed now one is a we have on one side we have the conservation land that we'd like to keep as pristine as possible and on the other side we have an eement uh now if the easement that contains drainage was just an underground pipe it would be no problem but it's consists of a Swale and some firm check dicks so uh we looked into the option of going in that direction uh the house the house contractor is a little nervous about the foundation um we may relook at that but I think as a matter of safety or just basically we'd like to get the access easement along the subry property approved as our option although we could try we will try to avoid it by seeing that people can get around on the easement side there may be some disruption of the easement in order that for that to happen it's just going to have to rebuilt as it was as it stands today if that happens uh and as far as we looked at options of one single wall along the back of the driveway it's the way the consisting grading looks right now it's about an 18 foot drop which would be my view uh too much of a drop for a single family dwelling I don't know if my clients have any jilling or not I don't recall if they have jilling or not but got to look at it from the possibility that once my clients decide to move away that somebody else might move in there with children they fall off a 4 foot wall they'll get certainly get hurt um but they'll get hurt worse with an 18 foot wall um so we're going with this option of two four foot walls to alleviate a larger wall deeper fall be that as it may we've got curving still proposed on the driveway to stop any cars from sliding on the ice and heading towards the Wetland side of the property and we will have a a fence as well to protect uh any drivers who just you know be ice they lose control of the car um the driveway is graded from the entrance of the garage towards the street gradually heading to Fox Hollow Road for runoff that grading will take into account breakout requirements for the septic system that is currently installed we also regraded such that the walls will be four feet and no more however if site conditions require a higher wall we will contact the building inspector to see what type of Permitting or requirements he has to allow us to build said wall uh we're proposing that it need be that the remnants of the remov stone wall for the work you see it along this the call it the semicircle uh some of that wall will have to be removed in order to allow the vehicles to back access to back we propos to reuse those to rebuild the stone wall um it doesn't appear to it doesn't appear at this time to represent any property line clment so however we will confirm that with the L based on the plans that were given to me previously that stone wall is just stone wall and not indicating prop uh the erosion controls uh should be and shall be monitored should be monitored right now as well U because we don't have a site that has plantings in it or grass or anything like that we've got Boulders on the slope little Expos there however the erosion control shall stay up will we are provided with a permit commission and are able to start work and then we relocate the erosion control B for the access so I Envision the work starting pretty much with the drainage grading in the back and work its way back we may have to reestablish the existing grades of the U the reserve septic system that that the health department would like us to maintain and then we work on the driveway as we work our way back towards box Hollow Road that is the way I Envision it uh contractor may have other ideas but that's based on his expertise experience I can only go by the experience I've seen by watching construction work pretty much for half my life with that leave it up to questions okay uh so that was a lot to chew on first of all um you know and I guess what we determine here as the kind of construction you know phasing uh is what is going to be uh dictated to the contractor so you know we're not going to propose something agree to it and then have the contractor come back and say well I think it needs to be done this way uh so if the con you know if you folks need input from the contractor and you think there's going to be any deviation from the plan I think you know you probably need to get them involved now as opposed to you know when the project is permitted and and and approved um so okay Kim can we walk through your kind of letter here that you put together um so I think you know comment one uh the driveway you know that's been established where the location of that is going to be right so I think we're good there uh correct Kim yep I'm satisfied with the response on on item one okay uh item two storm water flow up the driveway intended to be managed I think that was um addressed uh do you have any additional concerns there um my only other concern would be that it does like visually appear that the driveway um is larger in size than than the originally approved driveway therefore it may have additional uh you know volume of of runoff inputs that being said you know it could be a dominous amount it's probably a dominous amount so I'm okay with it okay all right uh item three proping immediately e of the subject site owned by the sub subur Valley trustees prohibits access by motorized vehicles proposed work includes grading construction retaining walls up to the property boundary clarify how the proposed work will be constructed maintained without any permanent or temporary access onto SVT conservation land um I guess that's been addressed um but Kim what what were your thoughts there yeah I guess I and I I don't know what I don't know so this could be um lack of seeing it been being done um but you know I guess I still don't physically understand how the contractor is going to build a retaining wall up to the property line and then back out this way as the grades increase yeah without having any kind of temporary access on the SVT property right you know and to put the markers in you know along that property boundary um you know survey it put the put the markers in and not expect the contractor to go beyond that um I don't know in my practical experience um let's just say you know I I find it very unlikely that that'll happen but um you I think there'll be creep onto the adjacent property but you know that's going to be the contractor's problem I guess um you know I'd like to see kind of some type of a buffer between the sud Valley Valley trustees property and the work area so that you know we can be assured that there's not going to be any kind of creep or sedimentation or issues of anything disturbing or running onto the SVT property um so I'm a little uncomfortable with that um but you know that's kind of my con there chair uh yes Kim I would also just point out that the Conservation Commission holds the um conservation restriction on this property yep good point um that through the chair uh yes Mr finnean I want to point out that in the correspondence that I've had with Jeff Stinson from the uh SVT uh and if you look at um just to jump ahead to the answer to question nine uh that was was submitted um he had he had requested that we extend the erosion control line not only just to where it ends there but all the way right Kim just ex all the way up that boundary line so to address your issue about runoff or sediment or any of that we've agreed to do that and and we we we would incorporate that into the plan so that it would so that there would be that erosion control barrier between the two property lines that would prohibit and stop any runoff no I get that I get it you know I'm just I I guess my concern is the erosion control being dead set on the property line because every site that we've had in town you know the erosion controls have been uh you know there have been situations where they've been compromised right and it's not the contractor's priority to maintain those 98% of the time you know unless we go out there observe it and you know we force them to do it so I guess that's my point you know it's just a kind of a practical comment I would like to see them pulled into the property line so it's not directly on the property boundary okay uh I guess is the point so um okay so we'll move along uh Kim did you have any other comments there no okay uh okay so for project narrative in the case of establishment of Access Road removal of pine saplings St recommends that's fine you know we just have to you know the applicant's gonna have to work with the commission and Kim to um you know replace and restore any kind of you know disturbance um and I what is it two to one you know basis right Kim um for saplings that are removed um for healthy trees that I remove we typically do two to one that's a good point yeah um and specifically I'm speaking about this area it's about 500 square ft so this is the area within the Vernal pool habitat area in the buffer zone that was not originally approved to be disturbed yeah this is the 12 foot no disturb to a veral pool this is the 100t buffer zone to a Wellen and so it's this the uh location of this old Field Stone Wall was kind of the original limits of disturbance yeah approved you can see that better so what's what's the nature of the disturbance there in that little um you know I'm sorry you know why is that necessary in in temporary for the access right umary it's temporary disturbance you know to get to the backside of the site uh okay we'll have to I think we'll have to talk about how you know the expectation of what that restoration will look like um I think cim does that you know if it's Vernal pool buffer I don't know if two to one I don't know we talk about that um you know after we go through this um okay so construction sequence that okay comment five I think was a draft straight we're good there um the written justification so why access to the r lot is not feasible by the dra me along the west property boundary and the construction of the four foot um I don't know are you comfortable with that Kim um pause that's ultimately that's the commission's decision um so my you know my intent here was to point out that there is um you know a specification in the regulations that call out Alternatives um specifically the commission shall consider as practical Alternatives options that were available the applicant but appear to be precluded due to self-imposed hardships and constraints EG lot roadway drainage layouts engineered without prior regard to impact on bot resources um so you know my questions kind of were why can the sale not be used um you know that did the applicant consider um reducing the overall size of the driveway and or reconfiguring uh the walls so that perhaps there was one single larger wall I know that the trigger for a structural engineer to sign off on these walls is four feet and reduce reduce the size of the house that could be another option that ship may have sailed built the trigger for the walls is uh to get a structural engineer on board is four feet and I know that they are proposed of four feet um so you know I know that we talked tonight about some some concerns some safety concerns um yeah which is valid y yeah I guess it's it's hard you know I know that this site has this steep drop off uh at the rear here um but that that condition exists on each side whether whether the drop off is access from this you know the right side or the left side it's it's the topography that is going to have to be um addressed as the contractor you know works on this site um so you know in my experience with like a National Grid or whatnot I've seen them put down you know construction padding construction mats and distribute that weight and you know get heavy equipment in a lot of different tight spaces um I do realize that there are check damp whals here and that those would need to be reconstructed if there was access there um but it does make me wonder if there was some more creative thinking if possibly the um equipment could safely make it back here um through the well right uh that's just me and then you know the other question being like I said about the size of the driveway and potentially the the configuration of the walls so um I would leave it up to the commission if they felt like asking for additional investigation in those areas is appropriate in this case uh given the the alternative provision and the regulations can I can I ask a quick question related to Alternatives absolutely you just and I apologize if I missed this in the beginning but the work that needs to be done behind the house because the house is already built um that exclusively for the coltech roof system is that why we need access to the back is to install because now the septics in the front right I believe it's the reserve trench as well the reserve trench for the septic system through the chair yes it's both yeah it's both it's both right okay um that was all triggered by the reorientation of the house I guess so I was okay if it's both I was wondering if an alternative would be to put the CeX system under the driveway and then you wouldn't have to access the back of the house that's a really good point yeah that's a great point I I do remember from I think it was the prior discussion being confused and I still am confused why the Board of Health is insisting on this Reserve area at the rear of the house there if they need to build this temporary access to get down there to raid that and then they're going to put walls in the reserve area is going to be accessible you're never going to be able to get to it in the future so if they have to replace a septic system on the site it's going to be a replacement of the existing system in the existing location not that they're going to go behind the house and build the system so that part of it is always bother me and I think it's a great Point Melissa that the cultech chamber can be re relocated under the driveway there's no need for any of this work to get back there yeah that's I think that's an alternative that needs to be explored Mr bito uh to do that as well so I don't want to I mean I don't think it's a discussion point I mean you can comment briefly on it um so I think that's an alternative um you know kind of analysis that needs to be done as well as the access along that Swale as opposed to on the the other side in my mind you know so those are a couple points but can let's just continue to go through these kind of points that Kim had there's only a couple more I'll put open it up to comments from the commission members and then we can get your response on the col taac system under the driveway and access to the uh you know along that Western Swale um okay so just moving along Kim on your comments so I just noted the um height of the retaining walls and the um the trigger yeah the building department and then um just wanted to point out to the commission that in the original order the commission agreed that this um we're calling it a field stone wall would serve as the pib so um the work yeah at this point is going Beyond um I know that Mr esposo said that they intended to reestablish it so perhaps it could still function as the pib but um might be worth it to have a little bit more clarity on on you know the updated pib and what the commission expected and then just a note for um repair and replacement of the erosion control barrier as needed as I said this is a really steep slope um so definitely is going to test test the um limits of the erosion controls here so we want to make sure that they are in good working order yeah okay so that yeah all right so let me open up from uh to the commission for additional questions and comments um at this point Jeff this is Ted yes Ted go ahead uh I don't have any questions or comments I just want to let you know that I think I needed to step out of the meeting and I wanted it out there for the minutes okay I appreciate it Ted um thank you for hanging in there up till now all right goodbye everybody yeah have a good evening um um okay so I think you know we've raised a couple points here Mr Esposito that I think need to be explored um but go ahead I'll give you a chance to respond uh regarding the drainage system the sizing of that drainage system was done by the previous engineer on the project and prior to my getting involved rather than putting it in the backyard put it in the front yard and kind of centered it in front of the house the only concern I have is that if I were to move that draining system to under the driveway I still may have to do some down spell connecting to it from the side of the house it's on the the easement side with sing so workers with still have to go back there to connect roofs to the drainage system under the driveway okay and these are these are chambers that are gonna have to be very deep under the driveway in order for the gravity to work okay I that might very well be the case but that's the point of the Alternatives analysis right what they wanted to do is limited change Di's design as possible once the house was turned and no RO conceptive system The the Reserve area help prop want to keep it there because there were test pits there would show that weren't there and to keep septic system in front of the house in compliance with Title Five there has to be a reserve area somewhere I believe that if there comes a time hopefully a long time bought the interal dirt that if that septic system needs to be replaced I Envision it going in front of the house as well maybe not the exact same location but probably beside it and I think the reserve area in the back because once this house is built to utilize the reserve area in the back you would have to reverse the pluming inside the dwelling make that happen and um so I don't foresee in the future the septic system being repaired in that location but at the beest of the health department he has requested that we put the exist put the grades on that Reserve area that were there at the time of the test B at those locations so that was his directive towards us and that's why we have to go backward so um I don't know if I can get the down spouts all the way around the house to the side of the building when my colleague had it designed to go along the front of it's just that we had to move Chambers to the back to to keep this title five required separation from the septic system in so that's the reason the drainage is we is why we have to go back there in regards to the Reser the chair uh yes go ahead Mr just just couple of quick thoughts here for consideration um for the septic system there's a trench option that allows you to put the reserve in between the the primary curious if that's been looked at so you could have your reserve and the front and still meet your setback requirements and then for the ctech chambers it would seem to me to to potentially address your concerns if you split that system up you put half of it on let's say the East Side page right side of the building under the driveway and the other half on the left side of the building uh 50 ft away from the septic system may require you to relocate the propane tank but that could address your concerns about gravity flows um so I think the the message I'm hearing at least is you know we'd like to see those Alternatives analyzed and proposed to us so we can understand whether or not we truly need to go back behind the house to disturb areas beyond that stone wall um or or if we can avoid that Al together the only thing I can add to that is that the area behind the house is already Disturbed but somebody's going to have to a get back there clean it up folders scattered about Ste drops so it's no longer For Steed you know we get it um it just seems like you know the relocation of that system to the east and west sides of the house is just uh you know a more practical approach uh than than what's currently proposed and you know my sense is it hasn't been you know fully considered as a as an alternative um which I I think the Matt's point is you know what the commission is requesting you know and if you do the analysis and it doesn't make sense then you know it's part of the Alternatives analysis okay I can look at it okay great thank you that's that's all we're asking um if I can't make it work planwise through to set that requirements I submit a letter if I can I'll sub a plan thank you um okay Kim was there anything else at this point that's it all right uh any other questions or comments from commission members uh questions or comments from the public okay uh so if I can get a motion to uh continue this hearing until July 16th please bone move and a second second and we'll do the roll call Melissa I Janine I Jim hi Matt hi and and I okay thank you gentlemen thank you for your time for your time everybody yep have a good evening okay cmsr Services 8 Hopkins Road request for determin if applicability request for determination of applicability for a sun room addition and I'll read into the record the hop in the Conservation Commission will hold a public hearing on Tuesday June 25th at 7 Rich online hero person's interest request for determination of applicability filed by cmsr services to construct a sun room with Associated site work the location is 8 Hopkins Road assessor map r25 block 183 lot zero good evening good evening um Sean Nunan the uh owner of cmsr services on behalf of John Morris um we are planning on taking down the existing deck that's there and constructing a new deck for the sun room and steps to gr or Landing in steps the grade um we are planning on not changing the grade at all we are not using we are planning on using helical piles therefore very minimal um you know very very little disturbance to the established turf grass that's there um so we are going going to extend I I believe the the existing deck is 12 by 12 they do want to extend it out to 14 by 13 to about that triple window that you can see and you can see the established grass on that uh so the you know we are within the 50 Foot no no build Zone I believe only three of the ilal would be in that 50 foot and then the other three at the midspan at a seven feet would be out of that 50 foot so we're just looking for uh determination to to try to move forward with that project okay great thank you um Joe did you want to go through your comments please yeah just had a few comments um again we checked the uh took a look at the delineation and U we're pretty happy with that just uh one flag number 102 without without was maybe a few feet five feet low um uh couple of our questions were just addressed as far as um if there's going to be any grading um or subsequent stabilization required uh so it appears not with the helical piles being used um there was no discussion of erosion control barriers but if it's only going to be helical piles um that's probably uh not required um I was wondering um again U where the access is going to be from I assume it'll be from the driveway coming around the back of the house um but that should be confirmed um commission might want to discuss again uh pibs um and also the uh apparently the size of the proposed footprint is going to be uh somewhat larger um than the existing and that is within the the 50 Foot Mill build um so the commission might want to discuss that also but I think that that's about it for my comments okay um so s previously Disturbed area yeah okay and Joe since I thought I heard you say since they were uh using the the HELOC cone piles that the erosion controls are not necessary is that true yeah I would think so helicop piles so disturbance um so I wouldn't think that you know uh there's some slope there um probably not necessary but to be on the safe side a wad could be placed below the any work that helical piles might bring up some soil oh yeah that that probably makes sense just have a waddle you know down gradient there yeah Sean does that make uh sure we'll do whatever I mean I we've we've probably installed a thousand helical in the past 15 years and you really on a job of this small this size they' be in an out in a half hour I mean it's yeah it goes pretty pretty quick and we'll do whatever we need to do okay I mean if it's not quick and you're experience I you know I don't want to I I don't think the commission wants to require you to do something that you're not going to need I mean if you're in and out of there and half an hour you I don't foresee a need to to put that in personally but I'll open up to comments from the Commission in a second um the other so I guess the other question posed to the commission is just the pibs you know along the backs side of the property there where the disturbances you know maybe two or three of them um on a few of those you know trees behind the the fence probably makes sense um and we the commission can provide those to you sure and you just AIX them to the tree um and and it's at no cost um so Kim I think three or four along the back side of that property sounds about right sounds reasonable okay all right questions comments from the commission members would yeah would we want the pibs on the fence versus the trees uh I guess if the fence gets removed at some point um I I guess C might what do you think the trees are like on the very line if not in the BBW um you know obviously this is existing um but certainly the the pibs would be close if they were they were on the trees um I don't know if there's any appetite to do like a post like a secondary wooden post like right outside of the fence I would just I mean I would just have put it on the fence post rather than putting another Post in and then if they take the fence down they can leave that post up you know what I mean how does that sound okay to commission Sean does that make sense sure yeah okay questions or comments from residents who the chair uh yes Kim I did just want to point out that um when I went I did notice that there was um a significant scour coming from the roof run off yes towards the Wetland um I didn't know you know if the applian had any appetite towards um directing the the roof runoff from the sun room and possibly collecting this existing runoff into a dryw um just a simple drywall a whole geotextile and um you know some gravel sure we have no issues I was going to suggest that after seeing that photo we'll either tie them both into one dryw on the left side of that photo and then obviously the other side will be it's only picking up about 90 square feet of roof line we can just do a simple dig gravel dryw and that way you shouldn't get that run off they have a dog which runs out there too so he might have been doing some of that damage as well okay yeah so if we can get a plan that just shows the location you know revised plan Sean that just shows the proposed location of those two dry Wells sure and then uh the location of the pibs on the fence you know and every 30 you know to 40 feet along the fence line uh would be sufficient and Kim can provide those but if you can You Know sketch those in on the plan y that would be great and then Kim do you feel comfortable uh voting on the RDA contingent upon receip of that revised plan uh within the next week here the chair uh yes Joe with the drywalls going in I might want to revisit the uh Eros control modle if there's going to be any excavation required for those well we would just hand dig them with a post hold digger I mean I think we're doing just as much putting the post in with the with the signs down closer to the Wetland we got dig those in with post tole digger pretty minimal pretty minimal excavation for those you're saying yeah yeah just by in pole diggers yeah for the for the for the are you referring to the I Sean yeah yeah you don't have to dig anything for those you can just fix those to the post of the fence okay I thought some I was referring to the dryw any excavation required for the dry Wells right yeah I think we're just gonna we're just GNA dig it with a post hole digger you know I'll look at you know what we've done in the past but I can't imagine it's going to be bigger than you know a two foot diameter hole down you know several feet and you know whatever wear barreled off right right after we dig it as the gravel goes in once the once the structure is up obviously and the and the gutters are down spouts are in place yeah I would I would agree I don't think you need to put a uh waddle in for that you know if it's going to be done in the same day and the soil's going to be taken off site U as you as you do the you know construction of the of the installation of the dryw I think you should be fine Sean thank you um all right any other questions or comments from the commission all right if I can get a motion to uh issue a negative determination in the request for determination contingent upon receipt of uh a revised plan depicting the pibs and location of the two drywells within y have Kim sign on behalf of the Comm commission members present thank you Kim I'll second all right we'll do the roll call Melissa hi Janine I uh Jim hi Matt I and Jeff is an i okay good luck Sean thank you thank you appreciate it have a good evening okay where are we uh it's 9:30 already continued hearings uh 198 Ash Street this is a notice of in notice of intent continuation for aseptic replacement we have the applicant on the call yeah good evening Karen Keegan from Allen engineering good evening Karen um so uh this was continued from your last meeting and there were a few things that um that won't needed to be added I guess there's a row of um erosion controls to the leftand side of the driveway that has been added um there's a the erosion control up against the septic system um I think that's been added a little you know along so that it keeps it in I think it was a straight line before but we've added a little curve to it um there's a stockpile temporary stockpile area that's been added to the plan and flags one through four have been um readjusted um they have been moved anywhere between 15 and 18 feet uh according to what the environmentalist wanted um and we've also put um some nonpermanent immovable barriers in there um they they they they're ask asking for large stones but the homeowner contacted me today and asked if she could put the placards up okay so I was wondering if we could do that rather than the boulders yeah that's that's an option for you and um I think that was about it that needed to be added to the plan okay does the commission have any other questions um I don't Kim I think that satisfies the uh you know outstanding requests that the commission had correct checked all all my boxes all right questions or comments from other commission members uh okay questions or comments from the public and Karen if you can just uh you know defer to Kim on you know the proper installation of the post as opposed to the boulders she can kind of give you some guidance there okay on what the expectation is um we just want to make sure that they're secure and you know can't be knocked over easily right y um okay I get a motion to close and approve the notice of intent for 198 Ash Street move to have and to have Kim sign on behalf of the commission members present don't move in a second second uh we'll do the roll call Melissa hi Janine hi Jim hi Matt hi and d and I all right thank you Karen thank you very much thank you for your time you're welcome have a good evening you too okay open play uh zero East Main Street this is a continuation of a notice of intent for a commercial building in recreational sport courts AKA pickle ball okay we the applicant on the call uh yes galper here and M Maslanka here from GED uh who helped me put together noi and also response to the peerreview comments um so we believe that we have uh or will be addressing all of the comments to uh the satisfaction of of the commission uh we just wanted to go over all the comments and to explain to you what exactly we're going to be doing before we update all the plans uh because um we are finalizing also with planning board and uh with the mass DP so we want to make sure that we get all the input from all these different uh constituents um so we update the plans at once and we're not conflicting and redoing uh the plans multiple times so uh that is the goal for today that sounds uh good and we let you roll wonderful Mitch yep Mitch Masano we' got a Consulting well in scientist working with Y so um one of um the commission members last time asked for a graphic showing where the existing Meadow space was where existing lawn was just to get a sense of where existing land cover types were on the site and how they were going to be converted to the proposed condition so I put together this GIS graic showing where existing lawn is where existing Meadow is where existing Forest Area is and then showing the buffer zones and wetlands with the um the proposed plans set into the background there so the par green at the top left of the screen that's Forest Area um that's majority of that is the existing bordering vegetated Wetlands there's a blue line right there that is our bordering vegetated Wetland boundary so you can see that tan area incompass in there is existing Meadow so we have some wet Meadow then the right of the Blue Line the up radient of the the bordering vegetative Wetland boundary we have Meadow space small portion of forest area but majority of it is Meadow space especially within the um 0 to 50 foot buffer zone is primarily Meadow then beyond our 50 foot buffer zone we've got our erosion control barrier shown in that black dash line but that basically follows the 50 Foot buffone the entire way there just upgra oh what that okay yep sorry just acknowledging your yep yep and then so then there's a blue line that's our 100t buffer zone and then in between that blue line and our erosion control barrier is the 75t buffer zone yep so the vast majority of our 50 to 75 foot buffer zone is Meadow space at the top of the screen you can see there is a a portion that is existing lawn um and then within our 75 to 100 foot buffer zone a majority of that is also Meadow space and then at the top of the screen there you can see there's lawn existing up there in our 75 to 100 foot buffer zone and then outside the 100 foot is basically all lawn uh there is a patch of um of weeds in there that I called out as anthropogenic weeds just you know poke weed is popping through that is a bit of a raised area looks like some soils were sock piled there and seated over and just random weeds are are popping through but that's out of the buffer zone but majority of the building space is actually going to be on top of that um so if we hone in on uh the 50 to 75 foot buffer zone to start off with just for land conversion um down there where the mouse is now um that's where our subsurface infiltration is going to be installed and above that is going to be seated as a meadow seed mix that area is going to remain in a meadow eight post construction so we figure that's you know the best scenario there um same with the 75 to 100 foot in that same INF subsurface infiltration system area then as we work our way up um the center of the screen those yeah right there that's our our surface infiltration Basin um so that area we can seed the th slopes with um a meadow mix to allow that area to function as much of a meadow as it can um the only spot is the um the stone at the base of the infiltration system will have to remain Stone um and that area probably will be mowed and maintained but in times when it isn't mowed it can be maintained as as Meadow so there is a small corner of the one of the paddle pickle ball quarts that is within our 75 to 100 foot um that area will be converted from Meadow to um uh so actually a little further Plant South [Music] Kim a little further south a little further south uh so you see where the top left pickle ball court is in the set of six yeah right there so that's our only spot that's really going to just be converted from Meadow to um the the surface of the the padle of courtz and the The Walking area around it um so then shifting up to where the proposed building is yep perfect so between 75 and 100 feet that's sliver there that is going to be a conversion from Meadow to building and then just uh just plan north of that is um yep perfect that is all lawn between the 75 and 100 foot there's going to become a paddle port in there um and then just to the left that area is going to remain in a lawn State it's going to be utilized for some storm water conveyance there so it'll remain in its uh lawn State and then right there yep that area will be converted from Meadow to lawn for the same reason for uh conveyance of storm water also in that area there's a few proposed trees couple red Maples as part of the Landscaping plan and we're utilizing that as mitigation as well um adding some trees in there if you move the cursor over just to the left a little bit right there so a few red maple trees are proposed there um between our proposed building and the the 50 Foot and then if you put the cursor to the left of the six set of battle ball quarts so plan South yep there so there's going to be a line of evergreen trees there at first we had uh white fur proposed we're actually based on the commission's comments um from last time we're shifting those to White Pine um a native species to the area so so that's you know a significant um amount of of tree cover that is going to be proposed there to sort of separate our developed area from the the meadow spaces um so that I know the I think it was Ted he you requested something like this to be explained um at this hearing so I think that satisfies um what he was requesting um in terms of other things the commission was requesting um there was some forms and stuff that I uh sent over like a revised WPA form 3 um the checklist signed out a data service so just some formalities um there was some discussion about um invasive species so something to note about the existing Meadow area is that there are a considerable amount of invasive species in there um so as far as during construction invasive species will essentially be controlled by um their destruction um during the construction process so when we start grading and what not the invasive species will be um will be destroyed and then post construction once all this area stabilized as Meadow space um or lawn um I think it it's in everyone's best interest to maintain that as an invasive uh species free area um in order to have a functional Meadow space and you know we don't want invasive species um growing up you know the vines growing around all the um the Red Maple and white pine trees and whatnot so um within our limit of work we're proposing to maintain an invasive uh free area um I'm just cruising through the my letter over here for more comments um a couple of plan revisions that um are pretty simple like adding on a buffer um a revised buffer zone line to uh furthest PL South um there's a couple buffer zones that need to be adjusted down there um combining all of our plan sets you know putting the landscape plan within our um our main plan set that that's going to be done there was another comment about um permanent imov immovable barriers um so we're going to propose Boulders if that's all right with the commission maybe every 50 feet um around our limit of work so essentially at the 50 Foot no disturb Zone there um we're going to propose Boulders so U is that something the commission will be okay with uh yep that would be fine but you know every 30 to 35 feet would be uh requested not 50 feet okay yeah perfect y okay take note of that and through the chair uh yes sir what potentially could be an alternative that you would be okay with if we were to choose something else R than Boulders there is a line of Boulders there already I'm just not sure how many we have and yeah you could put uh you know split rail fence um uh you could put placards you know on posts um every you know 30 35 feet uh since it's a meadow you know there are no trees that you can affix it to so it have to be posts um what else Kim can we can they use as a pib I mean those are really tells me you might find more B ERS yeah it's New England yeah just in case so we don't have to import folders I I think we'll be fine just in case um if you have any other you know suggestions happy to entertain um okay you know we don't have a um specific requirement other than it be difficult to move and and visible to anybody who kind of um comes upon it so okay I'll just stand there going to be very difficult to move I don't know I think you're going to want to play in these tournaments I will yeah all right thank you you're welcome um okay Mitch is that wrap up your your presentation yep yep so yeah whatever uh you and the commission have for comments we're ready yeah so uh how many white pines and red Maples were proposed and I know you said the species but I don't think you gave us a number yep Kim do you actually have the landscape plan available to share yep I can pull it up um I was looking at it earlier I thought it was I had counted 12 okay well to in The Bu Zone the chair May um I'm not sure whe they would have the whether was submitted the latest Landscaping plan because it was updated after design review board uh so if you bring it up let me take a quick look and if not maybe I could share a screen because we added a few trees oh good okay yeah so so we we added a few trees I can explain to you where or I can show it kind of on a different um like if I if I can grab a screen yep you can you're welcome to grab the screen you should be able to okay all right one second let me know when you see it yeah I up okay so with the um green I try to show where we are adding more right so the design review board asked to um from screening perspective at couple of shade trees on the west side of the building uh couple of like smaller Evergreens on the corners and shrubs along the east side of the building and uh some screening for the Neighbors on the Wayside Street so we are putting uh about 10 Evergreens on the south um end of the the lot okay and we we converted some of those uh uh non-native um Evergreens I believe to to the native ones so all of them are going to be native okay so those are all in addition to the uh yeah the 12 the 12 combined white pines and red Maples that are being installed along the buffer zone there yeah okay did these once yes yeah and then there's a few more kind of up yeah there are a couple of here right yeah yeah there are also um greens here and yeah but they are not in the buffer zone right these are right right yeah M okay okay so and then where's the buffer zone um M you know where's the mitigation area Mitch right where the cursor is actually right now um so that is the subsurface infiltration system so that whole area is just going to be seated as Meadow there okay and I think you said that that was going to be maintained um Meadow manicured Meadow as opposed to just letting it kind of grow uh maintenance in the sense that um that we would you know make sure that there's no invasive species at the time of the certificate of compliance is issued um I guess in terms of long-term maintenance um the goal would would be to keep it Meadow because um yeah yeah that's a goal okay I I I thought I heard you saying that it was going to be modowe um earlier in the discussion but I guess I misheard so um okay um okay that sounds good who the chair uh yes Kim um generally it would need to be mowed to be to be maintained in that meow State like once a year right like once or twice a year yeah yeah okay we can totally do that yeah and then I guess the only other question I had Kim you know I know Mitch had said you know there's the intent to kind of manage the invasives um you know during the construction process I guess it you know they would just be eradicated as part of the construction right but then on an ongoing basis uh it would you know the the invasives would be addressed is there like a for do you think we need a formal kind of invasive management plan you know or a narrative you know on how that will occur to be submitted um I think that would probably make sense right for construction period or post construction post post construction um yeah I mean at least you know the standard is typically something like two or three growing Seasons to have somebody um come out and take a look at it and you know commit to um you know some type of management practices if they should identify anything you know once once a year like somebody um let's say from Western Nurseries right because I'm I'm planning to work with them for landscaping and other things so potentially somebody like that right you mean it's typically like a wetland scientist a wetland scientist Okay so okay here the chair uh yes Joe yeah uh yeah I I would also um think that maybe some additional detail on a construction phase in Bas species management would be um useful also just want to be sure that nothing's being you know no contaminated soils being tracked off site um primarily okay Joe do we have is that something that we requested at um one of our I think I'm trying to think it was the historical society uh work that they were doing or there were a bunch of invasives right and I think they had proposed I'm trying to remember now I think they were proposing like volunteers to go out there and and handle it but as I recall they did submit some type of plan to us right Kim for the historical building there on uh they did yep maybe we can just provide that to um Mr galper or Mitch as kind of an example yeah I have other I have all their invasive species management plans as well I think I think some from Godard quite honestly I don't know if Godard can just reach internally I mean so what what exactly um would you suggest for you know I I actually really don't know y if um you know how much soil is going to be exported from the site like Is it feasible to keep contaminated soils with invasive species seed stock on site or are you expecting a large amount of soil being brought off site I I actually don't expect much soil to be brought outside and it's pretty it's pretty flat out there right yeah it is pretty flat yeah yeah so so some soils need to be stripped let's say from the um the place where the leion field is but it will be um kind of rescreened right and reused so it will not be taken out so I don't think that a lot of soil would be taken out if any okay yeah so Mitch just internally you know um see what you guys have for management plans if you don't find anything you know we can share what we have with you yeah I can put that together no problem um I think just uh what I'm thinking is basically just writing up something that says areas flagged with um invasive species in the existing condition um those soils should remain on site and I can just update my GIS graphic to just sort of highlight where those areas are and whatever soil we are going to be shifting out of those areas just make make sure we keep those on site and only export soils that aren't contaminated with the invasive species does that is that sort of what you guys are looking for I think so Kim yeah and kind of a layout of what you know what management techniques you would take should you discover that that certain species has popped up like what you know what are we going to do find Japanese not weed what going do if we find glossy Buckthorn etc etc okay and depending on what you have out there and and that would be for a a two-year period following um what what point like when would does the two-year um monitoring occur would you suggest I would suggest during construction and then you know once you get to the point where you are stabilizing the site that's where the two years starts awesome okay all right got other questions or comments from commission members through the chair H yes Kim I did have one additional question so um Mitch and yev we are as a commission also trying to put emphasis on making sure that applicants are aware that um areas that are designed as infiltration should not be storm water should not be directed towards those areas during construction so we had asked that um you put some greater emphasis on the erosion and sedimentation control plan um I know that that was partially addressed in the letter I was just confused because there's one portion of the letter that says that the temporary construction phase sediment Basin since soil stock piles will be determined as part of the Swip uh by the contractor at a later date and then another common indic that they will actually be included on the next set of design plans um so just wanted to reiterate that we would like you know some thoughtfulness put into the location of of where uh construction period storm water is going to be directed to um and therefore you know just just some greater detail on the erosion and sedimentation control plans ahead of that Swip because I know by the time we get to the Swip the contractor is ready to go they're just trying to get something over to us really quick okay all right so I think we're just about there a couple more um you know minor things that need to be addressed and uh you know hopefully we'll be able to close at the next meeting one oneck question uh yeah and I apologize if this was already answered but Kim has the planning board had a peer reviewer look at storm water for this project yet they have um and I believe that there's one more comment forthcoming as well do we have that in the file I didn't see no I'm looking at it I'm like no you don't damn it okay let me get that over to in the file as well for for you awesome yeah it'd be great to see you at that peer review letter says one other thing I um think I asked about last time was whether um we were able to dig up the original approval for Legacy Farms and if there was any uh buffer Z restrictions or anything associated with this property from that um order conditions or the overall plan yep I took a look at um some of the original Master plans from 2012 um and I like looked and looked and looked and I could not find anything specific okay um we have like cumulative impacts as they relate to like Legacy Farms North Legacy Farms South but not anything like for the whole development um like limitations for the whole thing like it was kind of Cho by I think by the time we were looking at cumulative we were already kind of looking at looking at it as north south yeah I think this oh sorry go ahead Melissa no I was just gonna say nothing on this particular site that um there was a you know there was a piib previously you for the insulation of the septic or not that I could find no I mean and this is one of the ones quite frankly that um you know when it comes up and it's kind of do like the oh this should have been permitted kind of okay yeah okay that's fine I just want to make sure we weren't missing yeah something that was previously agreed upon okay um thanks Melissa in Matt um all right so if I get a motion to continue excuse me the hearing until July 16th please so moved and the second second and we'll do the roll call Melissa I Janine I Jim Jim might have dropped off actually Matt hi no I okay yeah okay sorry uh and I'm and I all right uh thank you folks yep thank you Commission yep we'll talk to you next time have a good night you too uh okay so back to work session items um and we're at uh Heritage properties uh the trails at Legacy Farm cease and uh discussion and the Swip peer review reports uh okay Mr beamus good evening good evening I know Mr gatley is also joining us um so if you could allow him to participate yep good evening Mr gatley good evening uh and we actually had you guys teed up earlier in the meeting um but uh we just held off because we didn't have either of you on the call so anyways yeah I'm awfully sorry I I was on the call but I anyways I never heard the item come up but no problem I have plenty of work to do is just sitting here waiting no problem thank you okay yeah just apologize for making you hang on for the uh duration of the meeting anyways okay so Kim do you want to just kind of give us some background please as to where we're at big question um so uh that's we have an amended order we issued Conservation Commission issued an amended order of conditions to um the trail the Heritage Trails development I believe it was early 2023 I can go back and look um the order included Ren call it upgrades improvements to existing storm water infrastructure bmps um this is the uh Wilson Road section of the development let me pull up a map that probably be helpful okay that's okay so generally speaking this is um Heritage trails at Legacy Farms this is Legacy Farms North this is the section um here's the reservoir so the area that we're looking at is here this is generally referred to as Basin one and here this is Basin 2 the area which is currently under construction IE phase four of the project is located over here access through this area here um and down at the ter the um whole site kind of slopes towards the reservoir here so at the bottom of the slope here is Basin believe it's Basin 4 um anyways um so the commission approved upgrades to these basins and the commission had a um special condition in that order that stated that the applicant had to complete set upgrades prior to the start of any foundations for housing units on phase four four so um the applicant would like to move forward with starting housing units U foundations on phase four they have since completed the they have reported that they have completed the upgrades as uh specified in the amended order um we have this asilt we did have beta out there um one time uh they were disappointed to find out that um the work was completed and they were not notified um beta has reviewed this asil and requested some additional information that we're hoping we um can get in and then beta will reinspect with the additional information um once we have the confirmation from our Engineers that we have substantial compliance um that component of the kind of we'll call it the the hold off on phase four will be resolved um the other portion inside of this is that at some point I believe it was 2023 the Conservation Commission voted to request or require rather the applicant to fund thirdparty Swip inspections um it is a special condition in all of our orders that the commission may uh acquire additional specialty technical specialty um Consultants to assist in the commission carrying out the order so in this case the commission acquired the services of a third party consultant Weston and Samson to complete Swift inspections on our behalf um to keep an eye on things so Weston and Samson has provide has been providing Swip inspections to me for the past um six months maybe eight months now um the original contract was funded won and Samson sent along another contract for for the next six months because the um construction on phase four the site remains kind of open um so it's still subject to the EPA General construction permit requirements for Swip inspections so they sent along a contract and that um that has not been funded so at this point um Wesson and Samson um is still going out but uh they are not funded and there is a balance due um so if that continues to be the case the applicant would no longer be in compliance with our order of conditions again um so that you know something for the commission to also consider um in thinking about you know how does the applicant move forward with the next phase yep okay um I just I would just the last thing I would throw in is that uh our Council Our Town Council and the applicants Council have had successful positive um discussions in regards to everything that's going on here so the lines of communication um are are definitely open so that's a good thing absolutely um okay so Kim is there any um indication of when beta will have their review uh and comments back to us on the upgraded the upgrades the detention basins um at this point we're waiting for some calculations from EDC some of the um items that Beta had requested so that they can complete their their review um and then I know that the folks at beta some of their staff have a Fourth of July vacation um so I would think that assuming that ADC gets the information to Beta uh in time May perhaps the first or second week of July we'd have that information or we'd have that resolved yeah okay and Mr beamus you have those calculations um that Bader is looking for you guys are working on those we just received the information today so we're already working on it all right good uh okay and then I guess uh you know what's the status of the uh funding for the uh next six months of the Swift peer reviews for Weston Samson Ben this would be time for you to speak well I mean we had the discussion with our attorney last week as Kim said um I've been talking to for probably a month now as the uh six-month period was coming to an end in May and I asked her to consider given our uh I think the tremendous results we've had out there since November when that contract went into effect uh we've had nothing but I think glowing reports a couple of housekeeping items each each week um we have uh I think we've demonstrated that through our activity on the site during that time which has been site work infrastructure work um that you know we can handle the activity there and and I think the reports you know prove that out so I had asked him you know but a ago to consider uh you know ending this these the Swip reporting we would take it on ourself as we had for years before they started and we've been doing that since I know Peter's picked it up since I'm gonna say a month ago or so I think I've seen know several reports that Peter's done um and um you know just financially and I know I know this has never been gone over well with the commission but the the financial impact of what's going on here has been devastating and all along we've done nothing I think but continue to move forward continue to do things the way things need to be done and I just didn't see the need to continue this contract um and I think it was made clear last week when when we had our little phone conversation that um uh you know the commission would still want some type of third- party oversight and I guess in a vacuum not knowing when still when these phas foundations are going to be released it's it's tough for me to commit to that um and I think this I think we've demonstrated from the work that's been done in phase three the the work Kim mentioned Bas in one and two that's uh that you know according to the the order of last year I think was April of 23 um you know according to that I I think we've you know we still had that Basin work we've completed it we couldn't really start it until we got past um uh get into the spring enough so that we would have uh the be able to stabilize the work as we were doing it and we had asked for you know some type of relief here you know could we at least have 10 foundations we don't you can still have 40 38 of them um you're still going to get our attention but that seemed to not go anywhere and um and here we're being asked to sign up for another I know six months and I I just don't think in light of the fact that we still don't have foundations um I I was willing to commit to anything like that and uh we even threw out an idea of some reduced basis instead of I think the current contract calls for them to come out every time there's a inch plus storm event um you know maybe we up that to something that still provides some oversight but doesn't drain me financially and I think Peter could speak to um how well we've performed out there during what I think was a pretty challenging uh six-month period from like November to May uh the the frequency of storms the you know the volume of storms I I I I can't think of anything that we we could have done better and yet here we are in the best time of the year and we still don't have uh I guess Bader is not quick at turning things around and we're just caught in the sort of of all this so if I can stop you there for a second Mr Gately um you know that thank you for the background and you know from a commission standpoint you know it's not our intent to hold your construction project up you know we want to and I think we stated this you know we look as the commission um at your partner in this and you know to answer your question um regarding you know then why is it necessary to have a thirdparty you know contractor review the Swifts you I think there's been a track record of you know when we were relying on EDC in the past to provide the Swifts um you know we weren't getting them on time uh or they weren't being submitted or they were inaccurate um which is you know the reason why we just felt like you know this is information that the commission needs in real time um in order to assess what's going on at the property and you know we historically that you know we weren't getting that information a timely fashion occasionally we were but you know a lot of times we weren't um you know with regard to these detention basins in the amended order um you know the commission made it you know it was like you know we want to work with you guys on getting this next phase initiated here's what we need you to do for you know the phase that was just completed we need these detention basins you know constructed the spec you know before you move on to the next phase and that was you know close to a year ago and you know now it's you know a year later and come to find out from commission standpoint from kin's standpoint oh yeah you know that the work was done well great the work was done why wasn't the commission notified so that we could be out there okay so I'm not putting the blame on you Mr gayy I think there's a disconnect between your folks that are on the ground and on site and what the expectations of the commission on because you know yes I I do agree it's getting better but it's still not not where it needs to be and you know it's very frustrating from our perspective you know when you're saying well you know Now Beta is holding us up well you know if beta was out there when these this work on these detention basements was being done and they had the opportunity to be there and and look at what was going on we wouldn't be in the situation so you know this is a self-imposed hardship so I take you know a little bit of uh you know it's a little bit of frustration on my part and you know it's like the commission is holding us up we want the you know New Foundation plans and we can't get them so um you know we we we understand it's a financial burden for you we want to work with you as your partner on this um it's not our intent to hold this up for you but you know we do have an expectation of how the project needs to proceed and what we need to be informed of and that certain performance standards need to be met as we go along on this you know particularly with the track record that we've had so I hope you can understand that and you know we're not trying to be difficult um you know I think everyone on this commission wants this project to move along and be finished honestly um you know that that that is than no I I appreciate what you're saying but in all due respect I just don't agree and I think Peter maybe can give you you're talking about Swip reports that go back years that we were delinquent on and we paid the fines for that we've moved forward and yeah yeah and and the last six months we have done a tremendous job in fact I thought we were going to get Foundation permits last November December I thought that was pretty much the understanding when we took on the U that six-month contract oversight contract well I think you know that went forward no foundations and we well that so so hold on a second sir and I think Peter should speak to some of the things that you're you're talking about because I I I'm just I'm just not understanding why you have to continue to hold foundations um when there's I think a way to get to the same point give us something to go forward on and at the same time you know we're going to be back to you real quick uh for 10 more and at that point you know you'll you'll have a couple of months of uh you know how we're doing out there and I would say the last six seven months should I I will we're not getting credit for we haven't heard a positive thing and we're not looking you know we don't need to have our egos boosted no I I you know just want we just want to work and and and I appreciate you saying you want to work with us but um the actions are not there they really aren't there and yes we've had we've had some problems in the past if you remember every single I think problems is an understatement but well you know what if you really look at every single part of this project storm water every Basin we have we took on something that was approved by the town uh by Beta And as we started construction we saw and thanks to to Peter's hard work and good work we have made made major major changes as we continue through the project we have buyers with closing dates I think we've I think we've done a tremendous job of reacting to conditions that forced us to make changes in structures did we sit back and say no you know here's the original plan everybody approved and uh and run from it no we didn't we did nothing but improve the project and um then we're still sitting here and I think there's a way to to work this thing out um okay so um Peter do you have something to say on on on this just I I I I don't there's nothing further to really add other than that we did we did reconstruct Basin one we've made it much larger we reconstructed Bas guess a question the question is Mr M if I can interrupt sir yes sir why wasn't the commission notified when the work was being done on the det Basin that was in the order honestly Mr chairman I don't believe it does say that in the order and I wasn't aware the beta needed to be there for it it didn't say that and and and and and so the Basin one was redone in 23 it was completed it's infiltrative again 100% it works on almost every storm unless it's in excessive 2 and 1 half to 3 in then we have water sitting there for about 24 hours and then it's gone um Basin 2 was a wetland Basin and there was no time to build it in 23 the weather never cooperated and we then were out of growing season so we initiated that work this spring as soon as the weather broke so i i i we did this as fast as we could yes there were some problems in phase four the contractor went ahead and did some work that they shouldn't have done and we paid the price for it a deer price um but that Basin doesn't discharge unless it's over three inches of rainfall and we've we've proven that out as well as well to date not a drop of water leaves phase four so that's all I can say Mr chairman it's not from a lack of effort okay um nope it's not from a lack of effort you know I know you guys have been out on site you know um you know trying to you know mitigate you know all along right you've been on site trying to do what you could do uh it's a challenging site you know there are some engineering challenges you know I we get that um so I guess let me just open it up for for comments from other commission members there any all right um so Kim maybe it makes sense um for you and I to uh you know just get together between now in the next meeting um to uh you know kind of figure out a strategy with working with uh Mr gatley on you know getting this project moving along um you know in a in a manner that works for the commission and a manner that works for him uh does that make sense is kind of a Next Step yeah and I have been working with Town Council um both of the councils like I said are are currently um conversing and you know I do feel like we have a road map forward um you know with beta um the information getting to Beta and then beta um giving us the final thumbs up or giving the applicant a directive of what needs to be done to get the thumbs up on Bas in one and two um and then that issue will be cleared and then um I guess you know my question for the commission tonight is would the commission consider the applicant to be out of compliance with the order if he declined to fund the contractor for the Swip inspections as requested by the commission would you at that point consider the applicant to be out of compliance with the order uh well the order states that the Swip needs to be done right what is it every uh it doesn't necessarily need say it needs to be done by a third party correct right Kim that was a that is correct yep um it does say that the um um I can go up and look it's there's directives in the in the general permit the reporting schedule for the Swip it's actually um a half inch rain as specified in our um order but the the special condition that I want to direct your attention to special condition 85 the Conservation Commission shall employ its own consultant to be paid for by the holder of this order for regular inspections and project monitoring throughout site construction the consultant shall be paid from the consultant Fe fee additional consultant fees may be required the holder of this order shall pay such fees um all right I so in the spirit of you know in the spirit of working together I'm going to throw this out to the commission and to Kim for consideration and and you know thoughts so is the funding we're talking about past funding already expenses already incurred by the town or are we talking about funding expenses future expenses for going forward yeah good question Janine I guess both I mean I I would think we in in in good faith we incurred this expense and the town needs to be reimbursed yeah yeah I agree with that so what about this can I just make one comment on that uh because we have never seen a bill until uh I think yesterday we got a email from Town Council and attach three bills which I believe were for like the last three months and the statement was made that those three bills are what's outstanding I think there was I think it was $15,000 plus um the entire contract I believe that we signed back or agreed to back in November was for 59 over $59,000 um and I asked John galich because he's the one who's always kind of kept track of the accounting because the payments we make to the town for outside Consultants go to the town and then the town pays Bader and Weston and Samson and we've never seen a Weston and Samson bill um and I I certainly want to pay what we're owed but again until yesterday I never saw a bill and U right now I'm waiting for John to uh read my email and give us a little accounting so we know for sure what that amount is it's it's my contractor um that's how it's like stays third third party um that's why you don't automatically get a copy of the bill um because technically they're employed by me I'm happy to send you all of the West yeah we were entitled to those bills and we we had to pull teeth to get the beta bills and we went back and got two years worth and my understanding is we are entitled to the bills you know I just want to know how it's being spent yeah I'm happy to I'm happy to we never seen a West Sams that's that's a reasonable request y um so why don't we do that Kim um if we can submit the bills to Mr Gatey that are outstanding you know Mr gatley can um take a look at those and then if he approves of them pay him and then and he is already in receipt of those as well okay I just got them yesterday and but I still don't understand if that's really the if Kim you are you saying you keep track of that because they're your contractor you said was specific to the Swip inspections that is under conservation and is managed by me not John yeah okay maybe that's why John didn't answer me back but um yeah I'm just I just like to confirm the number and take care of it um all right um and then so yeah so let's let's take care of that and then Kim you and I can get together um um between now and the next meeting to you know put the road map together um just make sure uh we're all on the same page um and Melissa if you can you know join us for that discussion as voice share that would be helpful um and then we can uh you know Mr Gat if we can you know kind of regroup at the next meeting uh which is the 16th is that um since you're asking me I will tell you no um I I think there's a way to let us start on some foundations and keep the rest of them until you're happy with the progress like I think you have been for the last six months um yeah I I was encouraged last week when we had this meeting and Kim said there was a you know seemed like there was some positive vibes about getting this s away um and I think I made it clear about wanting to start foundations and the Word was well beter in fact I think Town Council said that the guy from beter who I guess wasn't going to be back until the 27th I think Town Council said that's just that's just not acceptable we' had already waiting a few weeks and now another week and now we're talking about but again this it's kind of a self-imposed hardship Mr gatle because if beta was you know out there to do the inspection you know when the detention Basin work was being done we wouldn't be in the situation but we you know weren't not yeah yeah as Peter said I I think we uh we have a difference of opinion on whether whether they needed to come out at that point um you know we had a we had a plan we had a design that goes back to I think 23 and I think we constructed according to that plan made some changes and um we've we've been waiting weeks now yeah Kim did you have a comment sorry yeah so I need to give directive to Weston and Samson so it' be helpful for me to know if the commission feels like these inspections need to continue or um you know if if you think that they can cease or um you know if like I said if you feel like they're necessary are they um compliance with the order yeah so I think you know my sense is you know like while we kind of work through the next steps on this project we hand the rain back off to EDC to do the Swip inspections you know and hopefully they'll do them you know um the way they're supposed to and get us the reports you know on time and we'll kind of see how that goes and if it goes well you know we won't need to use Wesson and Samson if not you know we may need to re-engage Wesson and Samson so does that I guess I'll throw that out to commission members um you know does that sound reasonable you know as a kind of a something that we can give to you know Mr gatley at this point you know while we work through some of these other uh steps in the project that we need to go through here I think that's reasonable yeah I I think that's reasonable as well Jeff like you said um with the expectation that things continue as they have in the last six months and if they don't then we go back to what was working which was Weston and Samson okay I think it's reasonable too J all right okay Matt you you good with that I know you haven't uh had benefit being involved in the project um up until recently but okay so Mr Gately hopefully that helps you out um and uh you know as I said you know Kim myself and Melissa will get together here between the next between you know in the next uh couple weeks and uh you know hopefully we'll put together a road appap that we can all agree to and move forward with on on this project going forward okay all right sir sounds good sounds good thank you very much okay um thank you and you know I I do want to say that you know the um you know we have been happy with the fact that you know there have been some significant rain events over the past you know six months and we haven't really had any issues at the site um so you know at at the new phase of the project so you know I do want to give you some Kudos there and uh you know I don't want you to hear all bad news all the time so you know all right hopefully if next time we uh we talk maybe you can sprinkle a few foundations in there too along with the Kudos the Kudos are nice I'm happy to take them um a few foundations would be solely needed at this point okay yep I heard you okay all right thank you sir okay thank you have a good evening yep good night good night all right uh so Kim Lucas environmental uh we're getting late here sorry folks um the Lucas environmental contract discussion the annual contract is up for review uh so there a couple changes made for this year yes yes so um we hope they will have us back again for fiscal year 25 um they are requesting a little bump in their monthly rate per hour from 110 to 120 um which based on my knowledge of other um per hour charges for um Consultants is extremely reasonable um and they're changing their um mileage structure a little bit so that um travel mileage is reimbursed um to in fromont the the town of hackington up to 60 miles each way okay that seems reasonable to me um any questions comments from the commission everyone good with that yes okay well Joe thank you for uh you know your assistance um on these you know projects and attending our meetings and helping us out this past year we appreciate um you know your good work and and everything you do so thank you well thank you yes thank you Joe uh is there a motion to approve the new uh contract for Lucas environmental for the upcoming fiscal year is it one year or two years Kim it's one year right it is one year at a time yeah thank you is there a motion so moved and a second second and we'll do the roll call Melissa I Janine I Jim I Matt hi and I'm an i all right and then public for Kim do you want to hold off on this until we have a full commission or I think so okay do you want to give us a teaser no I have good news but I think I need to wait I think I need to wait for Ed all right we we'll put we'll put off to the next meeting then yeah all right well that was a long one tonight thank you everyone um so I'm sure someone's going to be eager to uh put a motion forward the uh close the meeting I will make that motion oh and we'll do the roll call Melissa hi Denine hi Jim hi Matt hi and I'm an i all right guys have a great night thank you everyone everybody have a great July holiday yeah you guys too a great four yep take care everyone see you by bye for