##VIDEO ID:fauI15bUNzo## if I get booted or something like that um I'll get back on as soon as I can and hopefully you can take the but not anti I'll probably do my best to tread water while we wait for you okay not anticipating problems but you never know when you're on a different different machine um all right I never know when I'm on the same machine I've been on for three years well that's true that's that's true um all right so 701 I'm going to go ahead and oh I need to share my screen so Judy you should have access as well as yeah you're good okay well do we have a quorum yet um yeah I was just counting I don't know if we do I don't think Matt's on yet right no Matt I did not let Matt in oh here he comes so we've got we got we got a lot of people so we've got Jim Ted Matt and myself right now so that is a quorum you're here right Matt yeah there you are okay okay um all right I'm going to call the meeting to order and go ahead and read this Preamble so this is the December 17th 2024 open meeting of the hoofington Conservation Commission being conducted remotely consistent with an act extending certain certain covid-19 measures adopted during the State of Emergency the new law authorizes all members of a public body to continue participating um in meetings remotely the open meeting law is requirement that a quorum of the body and the chair be physically present at the meeting location remains suspended for this meeting the hopkington Conservation Commission is convening by video conference via Zoom app as posted on the town's web meeting calendar and the Conservation Commission agent agenda identifying how the public may join Additionally the meeting may also be broadcast by hcam through one or many of its channels or platforms please note that this meeting is being recorded and that some attendees are participating by video conference accordingly Please be aware that others may be able to see you and take care not to screen share your computer anything that you broadcast may be captured by the recording supporting materials that have been provided to the members of the commission for this meeting are available on the town's website this meeting will feature public comment after commission members and staff have discussed each project application on the agenda chair will open the discussion to public comment members of the public who wish to speak are asked to identify their name and address 3 minutes will be afforded for each public comment each vote taken in this meeting will be conducted via roll call of the members so I will now confirm which commission members are present Ed is running late we believe not present um Janine is absent running late Heather is absent Jim yeah Ted Ted is present Matt present and myself Melissa I'll now confirm staff that are present Judy present Anna present and Joe present all right so we are all set with that um so we have a number of things that were are no longer on the agenda we continued um for anyone here for DeAngelo 12 Maple Street extension that has requested a continuance to January AR 28th 2025 hackington Stone and Garden at 28 Lumber Street has also been continued to January 28 2025 and the 132 Clinton Street amended notice of intent application was requested continuation to March uh 11th 2025 um so that being said we don't have any documents for review uh we do have draft minutes from September 24th 2024 has anyone on the commission not had time to review these and or have any comments on those minutes Jim's all set with that all set all right that being said can I get a motion to approve the minutes I'll make that motion and I'll second Jim's motion great and I'll take a roll call um Jim hi Ted I Matt I and I am also an i great all right next on the agenda we have Wall Street development 12 North Mill Street in formal discussion um Mr Petro Z are you on the line to discuss this one well I'd like to uh forego that discussion in formal discussion because I'm not I haven't completed my um information that I want to submit to the commission so I'd like to uh put that off until the next meeting in January okay that's all right with the commission sure we can do that thank you um then we will go to the next item which is you again 10 Leonard Street beautiful um 12 lter Street discussion of fees for certificate of compliance applications what do you have for us well well it's not what I have for you it's it's we have uh I've think you completed the uh process for the certificate of compliance at 8 lenon Street and I submitted a uh fee for there's two remaining uh 10 and 12 I simply requested that the peer reviewer or when the inspection is done that he inspect both properties at the same time since they're only 30 ft apart um and not be built for you know twice um what it would what presumably would just be a simple visit for you know maybe less than an hour to walk the site and and so on and so forth so you're charging 480 it's $480 filing fee and for each lot I think that's more than I mean that's quite a bit of money $1,000 to walk the two lots and pretty much observe nothing yep I think we've um had this discussion before and um our standard policy for all applicants is to provide the um provide the fee and then um you know our inspectors will try and be as diligent as possible and coordinate of course I'm sure they would like to make one trip as well so whatever is not used they certainly bill um you know just for the time that's spent out there so you'll get credited back whatever um is not used for the review so so so what is not used from eight lard Street uh I do not know off the top of my head that's and that's kind of what I'm trying to you're asking me to pay in advance for something that may not take less than an hour so correct that's our that's our that's our standard procedure so okay all right yes okay um through the chair yes Mr pie um I have tomorrow off but on Thursday I'm happy to go through the Lucas bills and um get a final tally on 8 Leonard and let you know the difference um to pay that balance if that would be helpful for me to pay the balance mean no to so whatever is left over from eight transfer over and then let you know that difference if that would be helpful that would be very helpful absolutely thank you appreciate it okay um anything else on that one we all set Mr P yeah I think so I just wanted someone to go out there and do it before it snowed that's all okay yep just uh go ahead and submit the fee and then we'll we'll get them out there thank you yep all right 710 so next up we have Heritage properties the trails at Legacy Farms request for additional units to be released from the cease and assist through the chair yes I'm not sure that Peter beamus is on the meeting quite yet um if he has not arrived yet he did ask that he be heard after the um the public hearings okay that's fine we can skip over those for now um Jud can you scroll down a little bit do we have anything after 6 on the work session um so I assume that would be the same for number six we'd skip that until Mr beus arrives so we have Toll Brothers Elmwood Farm Newberry Glenn notice of violation uh discussion um do we have Ted Merchant or someone representing Toll Brothers on the call hi I'm rich Kirby from LEC environmental and I believe Ted Merchant is also on the line okay hi I'm here too oh great there you are Ted so can I share my screen to uh share a brief presentation that I uh emailed to Judy just a few minutes ago yep you should be able to share okay great um so Toll Brothers received a notice of violation on December 13th following um a pretty significant rain event this is the uh Newberry Glenn project it's a residential subdivision that's currently under construction uh here's Blueberry Lane uh North as you can just see the corner of the north arrow pointing in the this direction we have a Fitch Avenue which is currently under construction a good portion of it is paved and we have Myrtle Avenue which is uh it just has the gravel aggregate beneath it um the notice of violation again was dated uh December 13th and it goes through some observations made by a commission member namely uh sedimentation onto the um Fitch Avenue the interior subdivision roadway which made its way onto Blueberry Lane into the storm water infrastructure and uh through downg gradient storm water basins um since then uh Toll Brothers and uh Ted Merchant myself and the contractor from Fenton and Sun met on site today this afternoon uh as soon as I heard about this and um got out to the site cleanup efforts have been underway uh sediment was removed from fit Avenue Blueberry Lane and the contractor swept the pavement um the catch Basin Inlet protection was replaced and cleaned out along Fitch Avenue and Blueberry Lane and uh you know basically they did their best to clean it up you can see this bottom photo here the the Pavements pretty clean at this point this catch Basin which is really the low point that received the Lion Share of sediment has all been replaced and cleaned out and all the sediment around it has been cleaned out so we uh we put our heads together and talked about what we could do whoops over the next uh as soon as possible really and uh Ted made some calls and called in some favors and fortunately we're able to to get on this right away so uh SNM Farms is going to be installing compost sock and silt fence uh along roughly the northern half of both sides of Fitch Avenue that's happening tomorrow and the whole point of that is to really limit the sediment transport from the open areas of the site onto the pavement where it will then be directed to these catch basins uh there's a uh we're going to reestablish a storm water diversion sale with check dams and direct more surface runoff to the temporary Basin as it's was intended uh additional in catch Basin Inlet protection along Blueberry Lane uh ultimately we'd like to install binus curbing along portions of Fitch Avenue that potentially will happen this Friday but it depends on weather and uh a lot of the uh workers at the payment plan are laid off for the winner but he's the contractor is going to see if he can't get a crew together to get the curbs in uh we're also looking to install stabilized construction entrances at each lot to limit sediment transport onto the pavement from construction vehicles it's more of a longterm thing we're trying to get that done before the end of the year we're now going to implement uh weekly uh street sweeping all pavement uh will be swept and we'll we'll do an additional sweep uh in anticipation of a of a rain event greater than a quarter inch and then lastly we're GNA install a flock log at the final Basin so this fourth page includes a sketch of what we intend to do over the tomorrow be starting tomorrow through the end of uh this week and the end of the year um while the Lion Share of the issue was down here at the Northern end uh uh we were told that there was some sedimentation observed at this end of Blueberry Lane as well there is a downg gradient catch Basin that currently does not have protection so we're going to install Inlet protection here uh this is a note indicating the uh street sweeping which will occur on a weekly basis and of course before a rain event greater than a quarter inch within 24 hours these green lines represent where we're going to install the compost sock and entrenched silt fence on either side of Fitch Avenue uh and we'll of course have stabilized Construction entran for each lot uh ultimately the goal is to have the um the siltation fence and compost sock block off entrances to the properties with the exception of the construction entrance so vehicles are forced to utilize that stabilized construction entrance to limit sediment tracking onto the street and uh we're also going to like I said reestablish this temporary diversion sale which will direct water to this existing temporary basin as commission members may be aware there's already a um a uh gravel Swale along the perimeter of the property here that uh flows into this catch Basin right here at this corner and then there's another um perimeter drain uh installed over on this side and and over here as well I believe so we've got multiple redundancies uh on Deck to protect the adjacent pavement and downg gradient resource areas to minimize the chances of this happening again so wanted to share that with the commission um so let any feedback or other ideas that the commission members may have and with that I'll turn it back to the chair thank you um thanks for jumping on this and I appreciate the uh the level of detail here um looking at the site I think that in my opinion um and based on you know what we know about the area and what I what I saw out there the sediment is so fine that um you know gets carried away in the storm water from the site that the catch Basin inlets really don't filter you know a lot of it out it just kind of goes goes right through so I think that your um diversion swailes with the check dams and and keeping that uh as much on site as you can um with the Curbing and what not is going to be is going to be really key um in this plan from based on what I saw construction entrances and like you said just um trying to keep it on site um so it can have time to settle out um and not get into the towns I know there was a lot of sediment uh probably accumulating over in that Basin across the street that you guys were just working on so we don't want to um fill that guy back up but um yeah yeah I'll open it up to the other commission members if anyone has thoughts or or questions on what happened out here and what what the plan is going forward Melissa this is Ted yes um looking through the photos what caught my eye even more than the clear evidence of sediment getting places it shouldn't be is the vast amount of clear cutting without any straw thrown down without any mulch thrown down it seems like exactly what led to our problem s on Chamberlain Wayland with to Brothers but I haven't walked the site you did Melissa when you went out there for photos do you have thoughts on how much has been cleared without any stabilization of all that sediment yeah so I mean the whole site is pretty much cleared um and you know you're right Ted it's just and I guess it goes back to what I said that the sediment that's on there like preventing it from getting into the storm water is going to be the best thing I think you can do cuz once it's in the water the sediment is so fine so anything falling on that dirt surface is is just going to immediately you know have a ton of suspended sediment in it um because it's such a big area I but I guess my question is is that has there been anything done to try to put a buffer between the dirt and and the rain that's falling or is it just exposed dirt for acres and Acres so a good portion of the site um has been cleared and GR rubbed as they anticipate uh rough grading and getting the foundations in there other other there are portions of the site Ted correct me if I'm wrong here but that have been cleared of vegetation but haven't quite they haven't been grubbed yet so there's still sort of the ground cover Duff uh in place to minimize runoff from those areas yeah so that that was going to be my point Rich was you know the first six Lots as we come in we have started to grade and I think a lot of the pictures that you saw reflected those six Lots um but as you get further into the site you know past call it the green line that's there uh We've we've we haven't stripped the majority of that area outside of the RightWay and I think the runoff in general from those areas um is pretty minimal um for that reason you know we we've started construction or or started digging the first foundation on the first six and plan to start the next you know the remaining five here very shortly so that's why those guys are cleared um but the remaining ones uh we haven't started full earth work yet and and the goal is that once we get them temporarily graded you know stripped and temporarily graded there would be seed and straw placed down on on them until such a time as we started construction on the home itself and I would oh go ahead Ted sorry for how long has there been just exposed dirt waiting for the foundations to go in has it been a week has it been a month um they've been actively being worked on for I mean it's it's been a while off and on um I couldn't put a time frame on it but you know they were on them less than two weeks ago grading them up okay I think it's just lucky dry so it hasn't been an issue but I I would as well yeah I would agree with you it definitely seemed like it was the first the first six six or so lots that's where it was concentrated um right and and this P portion of Fitch Avenue has a pretty good slope to it as well once you round the corner here it it flattens out pretty significantly I think you have a couple temporary basins in the middle too there at least one that was capturing or maybe it was just a foundation that happen to be acting as a it might have been a foundation yeah I don't think they've done the temporary basins up here yet because the land hasn't been totally stripped and grubbed okay but yeah good you said Ted definitely going to want to uh stabilize as as we move along and not completely grub the sights until we you really need to yeah I mean that that's the goal is to get them you know once we get on them to grade them get them to this we'll call it a temporary G we try to balance the lot right so that we're not moving a significant amount of dirt from one to the other and once that's done we would stabilize it again until such time as we dug the home um Anna Judy do you have any additional comments or thoughts or Joe the chair just a quick question um how confident are you guys that the temp Basin can hold the additional runoff that's going to be diverted to it just cuz it looked pretty full on Friday when you know that runoff wasn't being sent there right uh we we talked a little bit about that today and trying it does not so so this temporary Basin has an emergency overflow that discharges to the gravel perimeter sale and the gravel perimeter Swale has a fair amount of leaves in it's been there for a while and we would have have expected to see you know sediment deposition or evidence of flow over topping that um emergency Spillway and deposit in sediment onto the gravel along that perimeter drain we didn't see any evidence of that it appears as though that this Basin um held the water sufficiently and it it was pretty low uh even the day that um after the the storm there was still a fair amount of um uh room over the existing water level that said we did talk with the contractor about buring up along the edge here just to make sure if water was to to overflow that it wouldn't back up and go around so we would we would add a burm here to make sure that that um held held the water but there's a fair amount of there's a fair amount of redundancy with that gravel perimeter drain and if it appears as though you know we're getting close to get to being full I think we had talked with Ted about maybe putting in some Stone check dams in that perimeter drain just to slow the down as it makes its way to the to the covert but that's a good point through the chair yes Anna um what status is the um the Basin across Blueberry Lane there with your improvement um Judy and I saw um kind of flow through the outlet but then there's a corrugated pipe that water was coming back towards the Basin out of so it seemed a little odd we noticed the same thing today um that looks like pressure coming back and and sort of broke up some of the parging that was around that pipe so we need to get back in there and rep parge that um it's more of a construction defect than a issue like it it was complete at one point but we obviously need to get back in there and repair it thank you and is that um that outlet is that the level um because those basins don't seem to hold very much so it looks like they discharge pretty quick yeah the the outlet control structure is in place in its final condition okay thank you and we we had talked about potentially locking the lowest orice to give the Basin some more capacity if that came down to it I think we ended up not going in that direction today but it's um another tool in the toolbox if we need to we can have we can have the equipment on standby at the site to to block that I think it's a 12inch orice if uh you know if it's looking like we need to yeah just thinking out loud it might be worth having that equipment on site and maybe some extra flock logs so you're not just putting them they might work better in the Basin yeah we we talked with hydrograss Technologies or or Ted did today and uh Ted maybe you can uh shine some light on on what they said but my understanding was is that the flocculent needs time um to be in the water for that sediment to drop out it doesn't hit the flock log and then drop out instant instantly it takes some time to flow and I think Ted was it on the order of hundreds of feet that they they were talking about it was so my I I did have that conversation with hydrogren and you know we were I was trying to keep all of the sediment that would get loculated um within the for B of that Basin so that we weren't having to muck out the entire Basin if it came down to it um and and really it needed more time then from the outlet sorry the inlet into the Basin to the end of the for Bay um to be able to do its um you know magic so the discussion was let's put them higher up onto our site so that it had time to you know congeal um and drop out before uh before it got out of the for B okay through the chair yes Matt do do we have calculations on the sizing of these temporary basins from the from the contractor or the engineer to ensure that they're sized adequately for the area that's discharging to them because the the nift's permanent very specific sizing requirements yeah I mean I know we're g to be redirecting additional flows there which is a good thing it's a good the strategy that's proposed is a really good strategy but we want to make sure that those basins are sized to to handle those flows I'll I'll go through that Matt with bowler but I believe the answer is yes um but I'll follow up with them okay great thanks DED okay um does anyone else on the commission have any questions comments or anyone um and the from the public for hands okay um so at this point in time I think it sounds like you have a good good plan if you could get check in with bowler or get those Cals and um just keep keep Judy and Anna updated on your your work as it progresses over the next couple days um so they can they can check it out and Joe that'd be great um I think that's all we need unless I'm missing anything an Jody Judy I think I feel comfortable with the response here at this point in time okay we appreciate that thank you and uh we'll continue to keep you posted okay thank you all right thanks have a good night you too all right um we are now at 7:30 so let's jump up to the um New hearing and um so this is the town of hopkington Hayden row right away and I need to read hearing notice um the hopkington Conservation Commission will hold a public hearing on Tuesday December 17th 2024 at 7 p.m. virtually online to hear all persons interested in a notice of intent filed by the town of hackington to widen portions of Hayden Row for traffic improvements with Associated site work location is portion of 129 Hayden row assessor map U23 block 28 lot zero portion of Hayden row right away between Hilltop Road and 151 Hayden row um so I understand we have a a presentation who do we have on the call the chair I believe Claire is going to be sharing her screen Claire okay you should be able to Claire great I appreciate it thank you uh for the record CLA hogaboom Wetland scientist with LEC environmental Consultants representing the applicant the town of hopkington uh joining me are a few team members uh on the screen we have Chris eely and Chris Kenny of vertex the uh owner's project manager and a few folks from VHB joining uh Greg Russell uh vude kakiri and uh mateline shot uh I'm going to share my screen just with a few images to introduce the project area um and some of the existing conditions and then I'm going to pass things off to Greg over at uh VHB to discuss the project details um so I'll just start sharing my screen here and do you see the aerial image before you yes excellent um so the project area uh includes an approximately 1,480 linear foot segment of Hayden Rose Street um as the chair indicated in the introduction it extends uh between Hilltop Road here in the southern Terminus of the project area it's just a bit south of um the recently approved uh proposed charleswood driveway entrance um the purpose of this project uh is really intended to address several existing deficiencies within the roadways overall capacity uh to support existing uh traffic patterns in addition to um the anticipated future traffic and safety patterns as well um I understand we did just recently uh receive approval for the charleswood elementary school that's located to the east of this project area just south of marathon Elementary here um the projects are in essence uh separate and complete projects uh independent of each other for a few reasons um one is that they're going to be completely funded separately and will be bid and uh constructed by different contractors uh they will be on different construction schedules and as you can see indicated in red um the approximate limit of work is separate from the charleswood site um and lastly as Greg might go into detail in his discussion or we could discuss further as as necessary um the drainage areas associated with both of the projects are sort of in different directions and separate of each other um Greg might go into detail a bit more but just as a brief intro the existing storm water infrastructure associated with Hayden row is all subsurface and um located entirely within the right of way uh beneath the paved roadway here um so as you can see our project limits are essentially uh within the right of way of Hayden row and it does include about a 45t stretch uh of the entrance to Marathon Elementary School um at existing conditions the roadway is comprised of two travel Lanes um a gravel shoulder shoulder located on the east side of Hayden row uh 5 1/2t wide paved uh sidewalk on the West Side here and that's all within about a 50 to 60 foot wide right of way and north of marathon Elementary uh on the southbound side so on the west side of Hayden row um a left turn only lane splits to allow um and facilitate entry into the marathon Elementary School driveway and currently there are no traffic signals uh or safe pedestrian Crossing I believe there's one pedestrian Crossing access on one of the sides of um this street here and perhaps um at this street as well uh but no traffic signals really to facilitate um traffic patterns or safe Crossing to the school uh as far as resource areas go uh there aren't really many to speak of in the southern half of the project area there's a lot of residential development abing the project on each side um and mostly on the western side of the northern project area to the east just north of marathon Elementary School uh LC delineated a bordering vegetated Wetland associated with an intermittent stream that has a 100t buffer zone that essentially encompasses the northern half of uh the project limits and since this is a roadway improvements project uh the associated Municipal buffer zones include a 25t no disturbance Zone and a 30ft no build Zone and portions of the project are located within um the affirmation buffer zones as well that you'll see on the plan set that Greg will be sharing um another component Greg will be discussing further is that there is a dense stand of Japanese knotweed between the Wetland and uh Hayden R in the Eastern uh project area here the applicant is proposing to remove REM the invasive species and replace with uh Native shrub plantings and a native seed mix as mitigation for the work in the municipal buffer zones uh just to touch briefly on that intermittent stream I'll just go quickly to this USGS topography map so in red here is our project area it's very zoomed out on this image from the previous image but what you see here is the intermittent stream is shown with a dashed Blue Line um and ultimately uh converges with the Charles River a perennial stream that discharges down into Echo Lake um Charles River and echol Lake are considered outstanding resource Waters and they are defined as including the waterways and any tributaries there too so as a tributary there too we'd be chasing our intermittent stream channel up into our project limits um that would in turn um classify the intermittent stream in our project limits as an outstanding resource water with a Zone a extending 200 ft from the bank associated with that um LC ran stream stats and included that in our notice of intent report um supporting the intermittent status of this stream so there is no Riverfront area associated with the stream channel that extends onto our project site um I just wanted to point that out as we received the peer review comment letter from Joe at Lucas environmental and he um notably pointed that out in his letter so I believe we're in general agreement with his comment um and appreciate that he was diligent in his review on that portion of the uh project area um otherwise uh there are no other resource areas really to speak of going back to the aerial image uh there is a certified Vernal pool I believe about 300 feet or so beyond our project area um the site is not located within the 100-year flood plane and nor is it located in any estimated or priority habitat uh M by natural heritage uh and just something to point out before I pass things off to Greg that intermittent stream is just located right here in the project area so you'll see that generally on the plans when he shares them it does flow through a 24in diameter uh pipe underneath Hayden Rose Street and um sort of Daylights and continues offsite to hear so um there is no intention to disrupt or impact that stream channel um as it is an outstanding resource water so with that uh I'm going to stop sharing my screen and I will pass things off to Greg to continue on uh thanks Claire uh good evening everyone my name is Greg Russell with vhp let me know when that's visible we can see it thank you so um Claire mentioned um we're discussing you know what is essentially a roadway Improvement project um that is related to of substandard traffic conditions that were brought up to us um related to the marathon school um driveway and as we kind of go through this you know we went through a um series of alternatives for kind of developing these plans um and those were developed you know with input from town staff and so just and I believe you got a um the Alternatives memo that we put pulled together as part of your package um obviously the graphics on that are a little small so we were going to just quickly go through those on the here just to kind of get back to how we got to our what we thought was the logical and uh best alternative um so the first alternative that we looked at was a option with basically maintaining the existing Lane widths um that currently start north of marathon school where we have the um three lane cross-section and then adding some uh additional shoulder width so we now have basically we end up with a cross-section with three foot shoulders 11t travel lanes and a 10ft turn lane for a total cross-section of approximately 38 ft um the then we also looked at and with the initial intent being to maintain the um West edge of the road so that we wouldn't disturb the existing Granite curve and sidewalk on that side uh this would allow us to have basically One Construction area open rather than working on both sides of the street and then option um two on this was a Anna had asked us to take a look at possibly Shifting the roadway uh to the north to try and minimize impacts on the wetlands to the South um and this so we took a look at that and kind of what you see in red here is the different the changes from that initial option um the biggest issue with this op option is there's really not a lot of space to move to the to the West a without RightWay impacts and also impacting the stream uh head wall outlet that uh Claire was mentioning which is uh approximately right here it really only gave us the opportunity to move about 2 feet to the West in order to because we would still have to provide guard rail unless we were going to rebuild the head wall and shift the entire head wall uh which we didn't feel was pertinent um because our goal was to limit you know minimize the environmental impacts and this would be introducing a new one so and then it also and that's beyond the fact that it also introduces other traffic issues where we would have kind of a reverse curve in Hayden row as we come back through the signal to tie back in further to the South and then moving to our last alternative this was a one that DPW asked us to look at um that would provide like full complete streets um with bike Lanes sidewalks on both sides of the roadway um and as you can see the in the red line here the you know this red line would be the curve line you know so our curve line is the proposed curve line about an extra five to six feet so then we're entering direct uh Wetland impacts and again rebuilding the head wall that's on the east side of the stream so that kind of prod taking all those into consideration uh we felt the initial alternative that we looked at um provided the least amount of the least amount of impacts to the Wetland resource areas without causing opening up other other issues that wouldn't be present otherwise so uh with that we kind of you know move forward with that alternative and you know is Claire said starts the project starts um just to the south of the proposed um charleswood driveway and Carries through starts to widen out um the sidewalk coming out of the charleswood school ties in and go provides a we provide a Crossing pedestrian Crossing at the mouth and then provide some W wi widening to maintain that kind of that uh left turn lane and additional shoulder shoulder uh width moving up and all this area is outside of um any of the buffer zones and then we come back kind of tie to existing where we get um as we approach the marathon School driveway and as we pass the driveway or as we go kind of go through the driveway we start getting into the buffer zones um there's no widening proposed for other than for shoulders kind of for the first 100 feet or so um basically because we're maintaining the existing cross-section and then we start to carry the left turn lane further to the North and which um results in the addition widening along with the shoulders um in addition to that we're providing guard rail along the east side until we start to taper back into into um the existing to the north by Hilltop um so you can see here we have kind of The Limited rating in this uh dark dash line um here's the Culvert that we were uh discussing so we we're staying away from that the we provided conservation markers at regular intervals along the guard rail there are two utility poles that are getting moved back in the widening the first two closest to the marathon School driveway are staying in place and so then the widening continues we extend the left turn lane approximately 250 ft to the North and then it starts to taper back in and this area here is the area kind of that of the knotweed that we're looking at so most of the knotweed or good percentage of the not weed is going to be taken out as part of the widening and that area will be then under P under a pavement paved surface uh we have no from grading we have no direct impacts to the Wetland Wetland um area of the bordering vegetated Wetland um we are putting in compost filter tubes along the entire either limit of grading or we've shown them here along the edge of the Wetland just so that we have space to remove additional knotweed and do the planting and seeding uh that Claire mentioned um and and just to clarify we are proposing to remove the knotweed um within the public right of way so there is you know you can see here there is a section where the Wetland kind of bumps out there's a kind of Hump um Upland area here that goes onto private property that uh we don't have access to you know so we can carry that out to you know it's not shown like that here but we could we we we would only be able to carry it to the public Ro um and then you so that area will be graded down um we are not proposing currently this whole area on the east side um drains as a country drainage there's a bit bit of um intermittent burm on on that side but which ends right around here and then it just goes into country straight country drainage and drains off the side directly into the Wetland um so the intent is to maintain that um maintain that um flow pattern however it will all just flow she flow off the off the edge um and will be plant replanting the slope and wherever we take out the knotweed will'll be putting in um shrubs um or the native seed in along with the native seed mix the on the east side or sorry the west side is all Granite curb um with concrete sidewalk we're not proposing um any work on that side within the buffer zone um we have put um again erosion controls starting within the public RightWay kind of along the back of the existing head wall which basically go from the first driveway to the north um to the first driveway to the South just to make sure that nothing um from the roadway construction gets in gets passed into that section of the river um the intent is to for the widening area to be full depth reconstruction the rest of it will be Mill and over one so there should be minimal um modific ations either elevation wise or construction wise on the west side so we've kind of restricted the kept the uh erosion control to that limited area um down on the on this side on the east side we've um we start the erosion control basically at the first catch Basin down the marathon driveway and then carry it all along uh for the rest of the project limits um storm waterwise there is a existing storm water treatment unit um on the marathon driveway that discharges into a u detention Basin over um on the north side of the driveway there's a high point um right around in this general area that kind of separates uh the South the North and South parts of the project um so pretty much all this drainage either goes to the this area is crowned so it either goes to the west and flows along the curb or it comes down and gets into this catch Basin and goes down anything to the north again flows directly into the well um we did look into a variety of storm water treatment options including vegetated filter strips um leaching basins and given the type D soils here and the um just nothing was really available to use and also given the tight uh right of way and with the wetlands being up close past the right of way kind of limited our options to what we can do um so that in a nsh is that um so down here this is kind of our invasive species removal plan here um so as you can see this kind of hatched area is where the knotweed is present and it's going to be under pavement so it'll be removed as part of the clearing and grubbing operation and paved over this area in the dott with the dotted hatch here is kind of the area that we're looking at for additional removal and then we will add additional shrubs so this is you know under the roadway we're talking almost 3,000 square feet of knotweed that we'll be removing and then this area outside of the right of way but not in the white ones um or sorry outside of the roadway and in between the roadway way in the wetlands is approximately 6,600 Square F feet um the idea would be that we'd be replacing that with again a native seed mix and then shrubs such as highberry blueberry High Bush blueberry Arrowwood Pepper Bush um or there's some something specific um the commission would like we could look into that as well um so that's kind of our plan for that area and just you know just so everyone you know this is kind of what we're looking at um it's kind of this stand of KN weed that runs straight down the edge of the road um you know there are obviously you know there's several kind of trees along this area I know Joe Joe pointed that out um in his letter um I did go out and um take a look today um you know so based varying on size is approximately 30 trees within that kind of strip anywhere between the Wetland line and the kind of the on the back side of the util pulse um a lot of these trees and you know so that number includes trees that are dead or dying trees that have been uh creatively pruned by the utility companies um there's several trees that have either you know we either have the extremely tall trees with no branches other than at the top and then we also have several trees that have been you know topped off um you know basically just cut right at the top um oh very varying sizes um so these are the these are the trees that are kind of in that not weed Zone that we'd be um potentially impacting um these trees are more um just past these trees could potentially stay if not you know if we weren't going to take out the not we um they shouldn't be impacted by the utility the utility lines um this is just south of the uh project limits so but this just just a general kind of overview of what this area looks like both today and in the growing season so um with that that's kind of the general product overview you want to you can turn it over to questions if any anybody has any great thank you for um that presentation and going through the design Alternatives I think that's helpful um project seems fairly straightforward and I know invasives are a huge issue right here along the street we see them cut regularly anyway um I guess I want to uh ask Joe if he wants to go over any of his comments in particular um to highlight from his review that you haven't already talked about Greg Joe do you have um any I think maybe just touch on a couple of things um I did review the delineation and um had no issues with the flagging except for one flag the g19 I thought was about 15 ft low but it really doesn't impact the buffer zone that the proposed work it's more or less along the entrance to the marathon Steel um I just wanted to to also point out there is an isolated uh pocket of Cattail and hydrate soil um close to the marathon School driveway um that appears it that it was likely created uh with the storm water management uh storm water outflow um that was likely done at the time for the marathan driver was put in um so so um would assume that that is not a jurisdictional weapon it was in fact cre at that to men I just you know one verification that that was is the case that it was created at the time that that storm water drainage went in along the uh the driveway there um also just wanted to um request that it's I I believe that the the work meets the uh uh The Limited project um requirements it just wanted to confirm have they we have can confirm that what is being proposed uh does meet the requirement for widening or less than a single Lane you know it's it's not defined in the regulation you know exactly what a single Lane width is but um maybe if that can be addressed that would be helpful and it was touchdown as far as the uh trees that are being removed I did review the invasive species management plan and there that is a significant stand of of not weed that would be very beneficial to have uh removed and managed minimized so I am in favor of that I felt that the waiver request and the Alternatives scope of the Alternatives was appropriate um and just wanted to also note um with respect to the stream uh that flows through the site um I think all the indications uh stream stats um mapping uh show the stream to be intermittent uh it is also a map by USGS uh as the Charles River so even the segment that comes up through the project site if you go on to the uh USGS National map you can pull up the uh National hydrography Data data set and it'll uh you can click on any stream segment and'll it'll give you some additional information so USGS considers this stream segment that comes up through the site as the Charles River I just point that out because by regulation the entire length of the Charles River is considered a river um and then you get into a little bit of semantics as far as whether the river or only streams can be determined to be intermittent but I think the evidence U both mapping and stream stats analysis shows that the the stretch of the stream is intermittent so I don't have any disagreement of that so I think that pretty much touches on my comments okay thanks Joe that's helpful um through the chair yes so um just with regards to the um the widening less than a lane or however we want to Define it um you know in part you know we're kind of looking at this I'm not sure if it's a one or other either or um as a fixing of a substandard intersection which is basically extending the left term Lan is that is that is basically the fix that was determined to be uh needed um so the substandard intersection or repairing a substandard inter intersection is exempt um from it in the event of you know the widening piece um we get to you know about just over 10t for a short period um part of that is shoulders shoulder work which is also considered exempt so I think we are um safely within the widening less than a travel Lane in this case okay that makes sense to me I know we're also waiting on um storm water review I think that's been requested but not yet completed for this project is that correct through the chair yes that's correct we have a scope but they haven't completed the review yet okay uh through the chair yes could I just get one clarification of the peer riew proposal we did send through approval of the peerreview proposal as outlined we confirmed it with the esbc chair it included a review of the traffic associated with the um the proposal and I wasn't quite certain what the intent of the traffic review is as it relates to this the traffic study was approved by the planning department as part of the site plan review process um that we had already done and so I just wanted to make sure that we're not reopening the traffic discussion as part of time Bond scope for the Conservation Commission yeah through the chair I had the same misread of this paragraph it says these services are not included in okay the scope I had the same thought but yeah there's no traffic analysis as part of this okay okay thank you Judy um all right um I don't think I have any questions um seems like a very necessary project does anyone else on the commission have any questions or comments um on what presented one quick question yeah some discussion about storm water along this stretch we see on the screen right now and how under existing conditions it just sheet blows off the road into the Wetland did the applicant look at Deep some catch Basin and a pipe Network discharging to the adjacent to that 24in Culvert as an improvement to offset the increased impervious area being proposed for the widening um you we did think about it but you know we it was kind of a we kind of felt it was best to maintain the existing um water flows um there's really no the exist there's the existing catch Basin over here discharges directly into the cul um there's a Gunter Inlet to a catch Basin and into the Culver here um we'd kind of be in the same situation I guess but so yeah respectfully that's something i' I'd like to see as an improvement to offset the additional impervious is curb and gutter right now we've just got sheet flow directly into a bordering vegetated won with no TSS removal opportunity deep sub catch Basin especially if it's hooded at least provides some opportunity for sediment hydrocarbons to be captured before getting to the Stream So something I'd at least like evaluated I don't see any utilities that would provide conflicts and the ints seem like they would work out well so would appreciate if that could be looked at a little bit further yep the chair this is Ed yes Ed I have several questions one of which I'm not sure I can get answered I am curious at the estimated cost of this project um but with respect to the not weed if I understood this correctly we're going to excavate an area where the not weed is that has to go someplace I'm curious how that's going to be handled so it doesn't transport not we somewhere else and then the entire area I believe is not to be dealt with so there'll be still some not we left and I'd like to know what the expectations are as to how well behaved that knotweed is going to be rather than expand into this area and then my last question is an easy one there are these dashed red lines that are coming across um like in this picture here from the upper left towards the lower right what do those represent thank you the um these red lines are the 25 foot and 30 foot um buffers from the barding vegetated Wetland um as for the not weed I mean there's no you know obviously there's no guarantees um you know if some is left that it won't you know EXT and back out um that being said the we're basically you know as part of this we're removing its favorite um environment so the goal here is to re you know kind of remove it replant it with with the native species to try and provide a buffer to keep it from pushing back through um and that's kind of how you know it'll have to be maintained in that you know that area to keep it from you know trying to trying to escape that area but that that's kind of the goal um I I'd have to go back and check our we have it in the invasive species management how and how to how to get rid of it um but I'd have to go back and double check that yeah Greg I can touch on that a bit we provided uh invasive species management plan in our notice of intent application It's relatively brief but um similar to charleswood elementary school next door um this project will be bid out to a contractor who will be required to provide a site specific ismp um and include that in their bid package so we have some general um outlines that any contractors will have to follow when preparing that for the bid package and and it'll really be up to the general contractor to ensure um they're utilizing best construction management practices to keep soil and excavated materials from where the Japanese not weat is present separate from anything else on site dispose of it um properly so it's not mixed in with any other soils going to um appropriate sites and um that it would be disposed of properly so um generally we have a overview and an outline of what we would be expecting but it will be up to the general contractor and uh the applicant is open to providing that final plan to the commission prior to the start of the construction so who the chair and I I still I'm under the impression that some of this not weed is not going to be touched because it is allegedly not on on this project property I want to understand how it's expected that that knotweed is going to stay where it is and how we the town is going to be dealing with this henceforth I mean I'm familiar enough with nawe to know that it is almost impossible to eradicate and if you leave five plants you're soon going to have 15 um anyway and and I'm assuming that no one can answer my question as to roughly what the guesstimate is of cost for the project uh through the chair yes um the project the appropriation for the charleswood school is funding the project um we have a rough appropriation that hasn't been Revisited in a while and not since these plants have been built um in the two to $2.5 million range for actually I might it might be 1.5 million um for the the scope of the road workor um regarding the knotweed uh the you can see on the screen here um that line down the center between the two um areas of knotweed represents a privately owned lot that is not owned by the town and so the town doesn't have the authority to eradicate um private land and to take on the liability of having to restore private land in such a way um as part of the project so we had to confine our work to the right of way in terms of dealing with that knotweed we can remove it and um I don't think that there's high confidence that the private lands not weed will not spread back into the town's right way but um as you mentioned not weed is going to do what not weed's going to do and the town can't take on the liability of eradicating not weed on all private land in hopkington um just out of curiosity is there maybe this is a DPW question whether any um Outreach was made to that private property owner for um you know shared interest in removing that that KN weed in some way or saying that uh you know Town Council advises against that for other reasons I it's it's not part of the scope of the street Improvement we have not reached out to Town Council for a decision on entering private land but this is a a street Improvement project in the right of way understood I think just um you know from the the commission standpoint and from what Ed is um saying you know it's obviously in the town interest of all the you know new plantings and things that you put in this area that are R adjacent to the knotweed is is kind of for nothing if the not weed's just going to come and take it over again so um somewhat of an investment in you know maintaining Town property uh we're happy to pass that question along to the DPW director and the town manager and see if they want to pursue that okay I think that would be worth worthwhile Reach Out um does anyone else on the commission have any questions or comments anyone in the audience oh okay so I think at this point in time we need um we need to we have a couple things we need the storm water review um we've asked just to see if you can take a look at any uh mitigation for storm water runoff for the additional impervious area um probably part of the storm water review that might be something you can discussed through that process or might be brought up through that process anyway um and then I think that the commission or at least in regard to the invasive species um management plan um the fact that it's mostly put on the contractor I i' likely look for maybe a condition of our approval to be that that invasive management plan that the contractor puts together be provided to the commission for review um and comment prior to construction it sounds like that's the way it goes anyway but um if you're amenable to a condition um I'd like to put that on our list um so that we can take a look at that and provide any additional thoughts once the contractor's on board um Judy and Anna do you have anything else anything else I missed uh we have not received a DP file number as well we need that as well okay okay um so thank you for the presentation I guess I'll ask for motions to continue this out um would you like a to continue it to the next hearing or out to given that the storm water review is one of those items I I would like it I'd appreciated it if Judy could push tybond to to return their comments I know we had some very long Waits yeah on the initial um visit with all of you and the planning board um if we can make it get those in a timely manner to respond to them for the next hearing we'd prefer to be in the first January hearing Project's moving forward and we'd like to the finalize bid documents and um the storm water is going to be an important component of studying what Matt asked us to take a look at yep okay that's fine with to continue to the January 7th hearing can I get a second second all right I will go through the roll call in favor Ed hi Janine I Jim Ted hi Matt hi and myself M and I all right thank you all for coming in and and the presentation appreciate it thank you all for your time have a happy holiday you too thank you thanks all right next up we have 28 Wood Street notice of intent for septic system Jackson uh do we have someone on the call for Dan McIntyre representing the homeowner hi Dan you want to give us a little rundown here sure so this is a a replacement of a an existing cess pool uh the homeowner wants to try to get a new septic system in before uh the cess pool caus some some real problems so you can see wood Street's on the left hand side um it's on Town water so we got a water line coming in from Wood Street uh the Cesspool is located just behind the house by the porch see a small circle there and we are proposing to replace it with a Title 5 compon I septic system consisting of a septic tank pump tank and a and a leech bed uh due to the high groundwater we need to Mound up the backyard to meet the groundwater offset requirements of title five so that's why we need a need a pump in there with respect to Wetlands we had that delineated by Gard Consulting you can see the Wetland line toward the rear of the property there and we show the OT no disturb buffer and the 100 foot Wetland buffer the tank work and the U abandonment of the Cesspool is outside the buffer zone but the leash field and much of the grading is within the buffer zone some of it even extending into the 50ft no Disturbed buffer zone the bulk of the backyard is previously Disturbed most of its grass uh the there's one area by that large Rock toward the bottom of the picture uh that area is kind of overgrown with shrubs where we have that slope um Lucas uh found some invasives in there as well um so that that slope there will be disturbed uh but we tend to restore it as a no mow area we're going to put some large rocks around there to let that kind of grow back naturally uh as part of Lucas's peer review they recommended some bushes uh we originally did not show any mitigation plantings because we felt that uh uh restoring the slope of the conservation mix and the surrounding uh vegetation would just kind of take over that slope like it has in the past uh but in consultation with the homeowner we did put in some high Bush blueberries on that slope to help as a mitigation and to uh restore that slope we have erosion controls around all the work to uh to prevent sedimentation going toward the wetlands and we put in several Wetland medallions um for future homeowners to know that there's a there's a wetland there um we did move one of those at the request of Lucas we put it up closer to the U to the rocks that are doing the noo area which seems more appropriate and I think of that I can turn it over for any questions thank you um Joe do you want to uh go over your comments sure um I did uh look at the delineation and I didn't have any issues with the flagging is show on the plan um as was uh mentioned there were there are some invasives it's not there's not a lot of invas but some glossy Buckthorn um and some U Oriental Bittersweet are present in that uh floped area by the big boulder um that will be regraded um the applicant has submitted uh some information on uh controlling the invasiv as far as and the plan U is to remove those and to bury them on site um I would say as long as they're buried deeply that that should be effective for these species um there were two trees um noted to be cut um and those the time of my site inspection had already been cut um the applicant has also provided some uh information on and why those needed to be cut I don't know that he reviewed that just recently in his presentation might want to touch on that um I have noted that uh U waiver request uh should be submitted and that has been submitted um it's all noted there was sub Miss Missing information on the WPA form that has been corrected until then uh I had questioned whether a stock pile would do needed and if so showed on site plan um it appears that only a minimal stock pile would be required based on the the applicant response and then I had also uh recommended the Conservation Commission discuss whether some plantings would be appropriate in the uh the area of the relatively natural soap that is being regraded and that's the area where they're not proposing the Newberry shs and I think that pretty much covers my comments I think most of my questions were uh were address in the uh subsequent information that is provided by the app okay thanks Joe um so question about the burying of invasives and Ed maybe you know this maybe do Joe it says in the plan at least 4et below grade is that um what guidance tells us is appropriate depth or Dan I don't know if that came from somewhere specific this is Ed I can't speak to this but I do know someone in town who said that he' buried not weed six feet and saw knotweed again but who's to know whether that was a knotweed from six feet down or freshly moved in not weed so I I have no no data to support it one way or the other yeah for for the not weed it really needs to get buried down pretty deep and and and it's not a perfect solution burying invasives is not a perfect solution but given the scope of this work and The Limited invasives it seemed like appropriate for this uh particular site okay yeah through the chair um sure I I think for the species that are that are present um I think four feet is probably appropriate if it was that weed um that would probably need to be deeper because uh it's it's awful tough to get rid of that that's been bued earlier um but for for the glossy Buckthorn me for the bitter SED I think that four feet is a both them okay um another question I had was just about the orientation of the of the um the system and whether it was considered or whether there was an alternative to kind of rotate it to avoid getting into that 50t offer area um grading there and in the area that's kind of nicely treed was that considered at all we did look at a couple of different orientations when we were in the planning of this the groundwater is pretty consistent depth below grade so as we rotate it into the higher Contours we have to have a a higher mound to meet the 4 foot groundwater offset so this is kind of a a nice compromise where it kind of follows the grades of the backyard uh allows us to meet the fora groundwater upset uh but not mounted up so much where we create a drainage issue at the walkout basement okay gotcha um and then the other question uh Joe touched on it was about the two trees that have already been removed um I see the one is there by the big boulder I assume that's because of the grading work that would be done around it um yeah we felt that was going to die anyways when it got filled over the other tree is kind of coming off the driveway it's going to be in the way of construction access we also felt that the root system would eventually get into the new septic system and we wanted to avoid that okay I think if they're um healthy trees typically we look for replacement trees um is that something that was discussed or the Homer might be able to find a spot for replacement trees well we discussed it again we felt that well we felt that just the conservation mix was was adequate for the scope of this work um you know the the Wetland is is wooded there's a lot of trees around the perimeter of this I think the the loss of One Tree can be more than compensated by the noo area and the blueberry bushes that we're proposing and in that brush line so these are the only um cuz the brush line goes where the rocks are basically so there's no other significant trees that are coming down as part of that grading no okay any thoughts um questions from other commission members I'm Melissa just a small one yep um staying with the trees um your question was are there any significant trees coming down is significant a key word there when you answer no Mr McIntyre uh no I think it's just the the two trees we identified the rest is um shrubs and maybe there's some small trees growing in amongst those shrubs but uh uh it's really just those two trees okay all right um let's see anyone else I think we've the the thing I think I'm um tripping up on is is the tree replacement just cuz we are pretty much sticklers for um replacement trees um pretty consistent on requiring that when healthy trees are taken down for a project um I agree Melissa uh and doubly so when permission wasn't given to remove them Ahad ahead of time yeah the the homeowner apologizes for that he got a little car away um but the tree the tree needs to come down for for future healthy of the system and for construction access you know he's he's looking at a $50,000 system here um and and it's in a vast improvement over Cesspool in a u um in the groundwater table and you know another 500 or, dollar for trees you know isn't isn't the end of the world but you know that's the cost of a septic tank or a pump tank mhm so you know he's not doing this to build a new house or build a subdivision he's just trying to uh improve his lot in life with the septic system or recess pool yeah understood I think um you know having the four so we have four well I guess they're drawn as four blueberry Beres um I think I would personally be comfortable with those four blueberries um mitigating for one of the removed trees um possibly looking and then looking for an additional tree to be planted for the removal of um the tree that's kind of closer to the the house what do what kind of tree would be um satisfied with we have a you know any any native we whatever's on the our conservation list for trees not picky could be whatever the homeowner likes um okay he likes no trees is what he he likes no trees a tree tree through the chair yes Anna would you consider like two additional blueberry bushes or two additional shrub plantings well I I was thinking we we keep the blueberries and maybe plant something you know down at the bottom of that slope as kind of a transition from shrubs to Woods you know maybe a I don't know a river birch or something like that that that would be fine with me another we just we just don't want to plant it up near the septic system we like to try to keep it I hear you want to keep the roots out yep so if you're happy somewhere down at the bottom of that slope near the 322 Contour something like that the proposed 322 Contour mhm we can we can revise the plan accordingly and and get that done yeah that would be appreciated okay um I think that's it if no one else has anything else um can we condition that Anna and vote on it through the chair um it's up to the commission I feel that this is you know it's been agreed upon by the applicant um so um while we would like the revised plan I would hope that Mr McIntyre can get that to us prior to the 21 days that we have to issue the order if you choose to vote tonight yeah I can and it would be appreciated if we could vote with that condition okay and a signature page friendly reminder please and thank you yes can I get that motion yeah through the chair real real quick apologize if I missed this but Joe did you have any outstanding items that you needed addressed as well or were you satisfied with where this plan landed no I think uh I think my questions were addressed in the supplemental information that was provided and also what was discussed tonight okay perfect thank you so I I'll make a motion to issue an order of conditions uh with a condition specific to the addition of a river birch or other tree at the toea slope within the 50 Foot no disturb area um and signatures by Anna or Judy thanks M can I second back on that all right all in favor Ed I Janine I Jim hi Ted hi Matt hi and I am also an I thank you yeah good luck Merry Christmas um all right next up we have nine School Street request for determination applicability other septic system again Dan McIntyre representing the homeowner through the chair yes can we just read the legal ad for this one please um maybe did you send it to me it was all in one PDF all five of them oh okay sorry scroll down gotcha thank you um all right the hopkington Conservation Commission will hold a public hearing on Tuesday December 17th 2024 at 7:00 p.m. virtually online to hear all persons interested in a request for determination of app ability filed by um Liang Chen to replace the failed septic system with Associated site work location 9 School Street assessor map R22 block 12 lot e go ahead continue this is a uh replacement of a failed septic system it did not pass a Title 5 in inection when the home sold uh the new homeowner is putting in a new septic system uh over to the leftand side is School Street driveway comes in and the existing system is in the front yard and there is a well in the backyard we had the GED Consulting go out there and put in some Wetland flags for U for the Wetland that's on this property and we redesigned the new system to be essentially in the same location as the existing system is the only practical place to put it again it consists of a new septic tank pump tank and a a leeching bed uh because of the high groundwater table um all of the work is outside the 50 Foot buffer zone um some of the work will be inside the buffer zone some of it outside but the bulk of it will be in the buffer zone it's all all of it is previously Disturbed it's essentially lawn and driveway now uh when the work is done it'll be completed it'll be U it'll be restored as lawn in the front yard uh we did receive the uh Lucas report one of their comments was that the Wetland May extend further up towards School Street up by U gc7 the last flag that God had put in um we don't doubt that and one of the recommendations was to add additional Wetland medallions up in that area and we added that to the plan um just to notify homeowners of potential Wetland up in that area and at the request of Lucas we extended the erosion controls up along the driveway uh to protect that uh that larger Wetland other than that I think uh it's a pretty straightforward project again it's a it's a environmental Improvement where we lifting the um the septic system out of the groundwater table and we've got the Wetland medallions as a as not really mitigation but we're adding that in there for uh future homeowners to identify that it's actually a wetland back there and I think with that I can turn over for questions great thank you um Joe do you have any thing you want to highlight from your comments or were they addressed I think they were addressed just uh the point out it looks like as was stated um based on hydr soil um observations the W line extends into the lawn Beyond FL [Music] gc7 and um based on my field measurements it looks like uh the proposed work Still Remains um outside the the 50 Foot buffer zone from from that extension of the [Music] Wetland and those proposed medallions I assume are they just going along the tree line uh yeah I can no those actually would be at least the ones that were added would be in the lawn it looks like the other ones the tree line is not shown so it's not it's not clear the the original ones we put we were going to try to get them onto you know a substantial tree along the edge of the lawn and on that the new ones added uh we did put a note that we have to locate it in the field uh but it's probably going to be on some sort of a metal post okay um also I had uh just requested it there was going to be a stockpile um that that that's shown um I think the applicant has responded that uh no stock piling would be reped except for a very small Ty uh pile and next to the the system um I had a question on pib markers that was addressed um I have a question on erosion control um uh matting not to include any plastic that time was revised to change the J matting so that there is no plastic and the erosion controls were extended so I think uh count this for all address okay um does anyone on the commission have any questions or comments on this yeah one one comment on the pibs so given given we're not being asked to determine the Wetland location at least I assume that's the case here um because I would expect an no if if we're looking for determination of the wellons putting a pib in the middle of a existing lawn just doesn't make a ton of sense to me personally I I think it was more likely to be confusing to a land owner to have a pib medallion just sitting in the middle of their lawn and could be misinterpreted so my preference would be we find some substantial trees along what we clearly agree as a is a wetland area and it's a little bit cleaner from my perspective other than that I think I think this is a pretty straightforward project yeah I I hear you on that Matt um Dan is there trees along the wet like I guess does that make sense would it just from being out there I don't know if we have any pictures of this area um in the file but is there a tree in the vicinity that well that's kind of where we put it located by field because we I agree with Matt we really don't want to put a stake in the middle of a lawn it's just going to get pulled out but you can see in the in the far distance we look here there's the backyard I think the the previous not the previous photo a couple photos back showed up yeah if you look beyond the driveway where it's wooded there I think we could find a spot there you the chair yes yeah I think if you look at like some of the photos near the end like number 4172 that shows more or less uh where I had observed the hydric soil Edge um and then it kind of extends uh to the shrub line from there okay um yeah through the chair yeah yes um I have a lot of background noise at my house so I missed a few things um but I thought Joe I thought I heard you say that the lawn actually extends into the Wetland in a spot or did I misunderstand that if you if you continue through those photos and if you look at photo number 4172 okay right there so that's about the edge of hydric soil um and then it the the what line more or less continues uh toward the the trees uh and the the tree line shrub line from there um my concern there was whether or not the Wetland Edge created a 50- foot buffer that you know would put the work within 50 foot buffer but it looks like that is not the case based on on field measurements okay but that that is that is about where I would would say the edge of the the hydro soil is extending to the and location that would it would actually curve more or less parallel with um the school street toward toward the viewer in that phot so then again apologies for asking people to repeat but I couldn't hear what was going on I think I understood Matt and Melissa to say maybe we just ought to put pibs on the existing tree line but that would be putting pibs in the Wetland wouldn't it no not in this case the tree line would be would be just near the edge of the Wetland okay that location okay if if you're looking at the the i' say the furthest extending Tree on the left if you go to there that's that's roughly the edge of the Wetland if you're going into any the trees um further left of that then you're then you're could be getting into the wet so I think either a steak either a medallion on the closest tree which is kind of tiny or a steak on the on the line of the law or you know like right in that leaf litter area so it's not in the middle of the lawn right yeah that's that's what I was getting at Melissa yeah confus be great if we could do that and from what I understand looking at Aerials there's another driveway like where Joe's standing taking this picture behind them's another driveway correct but just gets really awkward with a stake in the middle of the lawn to to try to convey our intent here which is there's a wetland in the woods be aware of it homeowner right MH um through through the chair for what I can see the house just sold which makes sense that's why they did a uh Title Five and have a tail uh failed title five but I think since we're going to have a new homeowner I think this is our opportunity to be really clear um on the the you know the markers and and where they are and what they mean um so maybe a an abundance of caution you know might might be better than uh not you know going fewer I guess m put a couple stakes in there yeah yeah I mean because I just imagine new homeowner and you know not realizing and is you know going to go in places and and extend lawn where they shouldn't be extending unless we're we're pretty clear yeah and just just to clarify that point the the new homeowner is actually living there now now oh is the applicant so he's he's aware of what's going on okay good thanks okay all right so does that make sense um I think the only so I think the only if you can um show the plan again Judy so essentially it's just that maybe last Red Dot that to be it can remain the same in this area to be located in the field so we're just going to locate it it doesn't have to be in the lawn area it can be on the edge um between the lawn and where and the leaf L if you want to put on a stick or a post um to kind of close that out if you just note that in the the condition yeah yeah yeah yep I think it's General enough on the plan that we put in a condition it it'll get done so okay um any anyone from the audience have any comments questions no okay can I get a motion um to approve with the condition added to clarify The Medallion location and signature pages by Judy and or Anna so moved real real quick yeah this is an RDA correct yes I read that yeah yeah right I don't have the form up in front of me Anna or Judy do you know which negative determination we'd be talking about here it negative3 just g go off top of my head here sh whichever negative doesn't confirm the resource boundary but I can double check yeah I just want to make sure we make the appropriate motion here I P up the form yeah through the chair in the past you guys have voted um just close and approve um issuing a negative determination without um confirming the delineation and then staff has always just picked the correct check box if you're comfortable with that that sounds good to me okay M are you good with that yeah I'm I'm good with that so we're if if I heard you correctly before we're making a motion for a negative determination without the confirmation of wetland resource areas and we're conditioning that negative determination with a final plan that shows the tree line and the pib's located along that tree line um hear that correctly Janine yes okay and signatures and signatures I'll I'll amend J's motion with signatures by judor second it thank you all right um all in favor Ed hi Janine hi Jim hi Ted hi Matt I I am also an i great thank you very much yep all right next up we have one Teresa Road this is another request for determination of applicability for an addition and yes I will read it all right the Hoppington Conservation Commission will hold a public hearing on Tuesday December 17th 2024 at 7:00 p.m. virtually online to hear all persons interested in a request for determination of applicability filed by Raymond and Julie frier to construct it in addition with Associated site workor location one Teresa Road assessor map U24 block 101 lot zero um all right so do we have um Anna were you going to go or Judy go through this one or do we have someone on the line um homeowner or otherwise to present the project I believe the applicant is on the line okay yeah Ray FR one TR Road homeowner hi Ray hi yes so what we are proposing is a an addition to our house uh sort of three three parts there we're looking add a second story over our current two-car garage uh we're looking at a carport over on the I guess that's kind of the the northern side single car carport um honestly we may or may not do that but I'm putting that in the the application right now and the part that seems to be in the Wetland buffer zone is a roughly about 190 square foot addition off the rear of our house off of our family room and garage uh the one corner of it uh the the uh the southwestern most corner there's about oh 4 foot by 6 foot corner that's within that buffer for zone so the current conditions there it's just a a previously Disturbed uh grassy area behind the house and on the side of the house it's currently a gravel uh pad right now it's all gravel used to be an inground swimming pool right there but now it's been filled in by the previous owners gravel now okay looks pretty straightforward um so did you look at this one I did look at this one okay just had a couple of comments um as was pointed out only a small area of work is proposed within the buffer zone I think the U question was whether or not there was Riverfront area on the site um again we have the same stream that we were talking about um earlier which is the Headwater stream Headwater of the Charles River which um flows into a culvert on this site near wman Flags B1 B2 actually flows out of a Culver at that location fls into a culvert on the uh north side of Teresa Road um approximately 400 feet from the the Outlook covert um in a straight line um there again we get into the questions about um you know the perennial scam status uh in this case it is mapped as perennial um where it outflows on the Southeast corner of the property um there was apparently a finding a previous finding by the Conservation Commission that the stream was determined to be intermittent Downstream of this location and meeting the requirements of the regulations as far as finding a perennial stream uh to be dry for consecutive uh s visits within and grout period um however the the actual status is somewhat moot because the uh stream flows through uh greater than 200 ft of culber uh and under the regulations the riverfront area would be drawn in a line perpendicular to the stream where it enters or flows out of where it becomes bring the culbert in that case the line would uh extend from the line between won Flags B1 and B2 uh straight from there across the site uh and no work would actually be proposed within Riverfront area and likewise uh on the Upstream side uh the U line would be uh located offsite on the North side soill so there be no Riv front area in the site so U bottom line is that there's no Riverfront area on the site even though there's a perennial stream maed they set these Point um as far as some of the observations on site uh there is a 4in drain pipe located uh between Flags uh Wetland flag 3 and Wetland flag four which discharges into the Wetland um recommended that uh the applicant to buy some information on what what that is what the origin of that is incur that all the work is located within existing LA area couple of comments on the BW forms which don't significantly impact any of the PO proposed work also some questions on whether this scale bar on the site plan uh is correct it seemed to be a little bit off or mislabeled um again uh with this plan there's no stock pile location if there is a stockpile location I think that that probably could be located outside the buffer zone given that the small amount of buffer zone that is the closer work I did uh recommend the commission uh discuss whether or not the riverfront line needs to be added to the plan extending an extension of the line between B plags B1 and B2 excuse me and also noted that there are no Pi markers on the plan and just the commission maybe we discuss that also and that pretty much summarizes my commins I can comment on the The 4in Strain line that's a front strain as well as front strain on the both the inside and along the uh the Northwest edge of our garage where the pool used to be and I believe one or two gutters down spout also go into that drain as well the way the property is graded the only really the only low point on the property is over on that side uh the drain was there when we moved in as a sort of an old rubber I don't know if has a rubber or what not but the material is uh deteriorating as I try to repair it and so that's why the it's now a white plastic drain during times of high water or heavy rain there can be hundreds or even over a thousand gallons going into that train okay chair yes J just to follow up on that the that outlet of that pipe is located well into the Wetland um so the commission should be aware of that and may want to consider having that pulled back a little bit if it's possible from the W boundary if it's carrying a fa amount of of float I didn't see any evidence of erosion but it is located into the we okay yeah that was going to be a question if there was a version is it is it fairly deep to get it to get it there um right now it's just sitting on top it it it goes over to uh right between between Wetland flag three and four underground and then it's just like uh an extension where the pipes com in 10 foot lengths I think there's one or two uh length extensions um trying to get the water closer to the stream and out of the the wetlands area but if it's better to have it in the wetlands area then they could certainly pull back those pipes let it flow into the Wetland area it might be for the reason there is a wetland there I don't know there's a lot of water going in there sometimes that's true um yeah I don't know I don't know know if um if it's that close to the Wetland if it's better to pull it back maybe it's so the part it would be pretty simple taking up the pipe to get it outside of the Wetland um that part you wouldn't have to dig or anything like that no it no I just have to simply pull off two sections yeah it would be right on the edge I don't know my thought and I'll I'll ask other commiss members for their thoughts probably would be a good idea to remove the plastic pipe from within the Wetland um if it's not going to cause additional um you know impact to dig it out just so that we don't have I mean just visually and having something not natural in the Wetland area um if we can pull it out I think that would be good um does anyone have any thoughts on that through the well I don't know Matt go ahead I was gonna say through through the chair were there any prior orders issued for this property do we know Melissa do I remember correctly that there was once to be a rain Garden here over on the uh Southern for on the property where there was a an noi where am I making that up you thinking of hu's property right next to no no no no no this property in this oops I don't remember this it would have been several years ago yeah we've owned it since 2005 okay so you you never had proposed a rain Garden or some Ty of water feature on the Sly portion no okay there must be another place for the chair I don't have any thank you um anything from nois on this property in our records okay so no mat now that we have on fire anyway I only ask because we've got a black Iron Fence going through the Wetland and looking at some of the historic areals of the property this wasn't always lawn so you know I understand what we're here for to look at it's the proposed building Edition in the carport and that that's part portion of that's in jurisdiction y but if we're going to go down the path of discussing pibs and potentially moving drain dis discharge lines yeah if we're going to take a holistic look at this we should take a holistic look at this it's a slippery slope yeah yeah yeah the black torn on which way as a commission we should be looking at this particular proposal um yeah the black Iron Fence is just along the uh the grassy part in the front there H the rest of it is 4x4 wooden posts with uh I guess you call galvanized fencing in between okay um let's see it's such a small area that's in our in our buffer and it's in the 100 um yeah no I I hear you Matt especially with pi I don't I don't think I want to put pibs up and not with other things going on um inside of them either so but it's it's such a minor um encroachment already Disturbed area for what we're looking at for this specific application um I think I would uh my thought is to just look at the addition um as it is and um for this this is an RD as well right so um I think I would I would go ahead and look to approve this as an RDA for the small impact that we have here in the 100 foot buffer who the chair yes Ted I think I'm inclined to agree with you and and back off on the pipe I would not sleep well though if I didn't bring up the chicken Uprising right next to the play Space I'm worried about the coup of the chickens and because it is within the buffer zone it might be worth talking about hoop is spelled with two o's not o y so I I mean if the children are playing back there an uprising of chickens it might be might be something nice catch that's a nice catch Ted little humor is always very nice let's keep the plan exactly how it is just because just for that I like that the architect could predict the uprising or or maybe it's just been going on for months and years I don't know through the chair this is Ed I've been trying to be very quiet here because I have Tangled with those chickens when I was working in the cow run they're a very aggressive lot you want to be very careful okay so with those words of advice Ray in regards in regards to uh the chickens um can I get a can I get a motion um or negative determination on this filing um I think that's it I don't think we have any any special conditions I I'll make that motion and we'll recommend one condition okay so I'll make a motion for a negative determination with no confirmation of the Wetland resource there is shown on the plan with a condition that erosion sedimentation controls be located outside of the 50 Foot offer okay I'll second that through the chair before you vote Yes signatures by Anna or Judy thank you all right all in favor Ed hi Janine hi Jim hi Ted hi Matt I and I'm also an i all right you're all set right thank you okay thank you yep all right um our last new hearing for the night Wall Street development 12 North Mill Street notice of intent um let me read okay the hopkington Conservation Commission will hold a public hearing on Tuesday December 17th 2024 at 7:00 p.m. virtually online to hear all persons interested in a notice of intent filed by Wall Street development Corp for temporary access for soil testing location 12 North Mill Street assessors map r19 block 23 lot e um Mr py are you still with us oh my God yes I just woke up okay good you're on all right so uh basically this is a lot that we've had for quite some time probably 25 years or so it predates the uh adoption of the Euro Wetland Bila um we're in the process of uh uh retesting for a septic system uh soil testing in the rear portion of the lot it was done back in 1995 93 but uh based on the title five regulations it's required to be um tested again so we're simply asking for permission to meander through the uh Wetland area um with as minimal disturbance as possible to get to the other side um and just do a couple of test holes and um Ender back out that's kind of what we're requesting tonight okay um so in order to do this work have you submitted a waiver request um no I'm not quite sure we need a waiver request it's permitted under your bylaw that we can do uh work for what do you call testing for soil testing surveying and other things setting monitoring Wells or those things are permitted as one of your minor activities um I believe but you are within you are within some of our setbacks though correct uh well you know this is part of what I will originally or will eventually provide the commission with the documentation that it's a pre-existing lot and as I mentioned before it predates your bylaw and uh there are certain um Provisions that exempt this lot from your buffer uh disturbance criteria so I I'd rather not get into that discussion tonight as I mentioned earlier but I do wish that uh the commission allow us to cross the uh Wetland area with um with a small machine to uh excavate these test holes okay um and well let me go for a minute to Joe you look you you did provide a comment letter on this um I had looked at that do you want to identify anything in particular from your comment letter yeah I think I think um description the Mr paty had mentioned as far as why he believes the um site is exempt would be helpful to see what particular references is would be referring to um I'll just say I have not looked at the site with reference to the uh currently proposed work I had looked at it previously uh under the review of the anrad that was done in November of 2023 I didn't note that no waiver request was submitted um um work is the access road is located within the 50 Foot notice and also partly within the 125 ft not gr buffer from Vernal pool they recommended that an a narrative be provided um that would describe any any trees that would need to be cut uh within the uh BBW buffer zone also describe how the Wetland was to do cost as far as using Wetland mats or what other uh method would be used have to uh impact the Wetland um and also how the stream would be crossed not to impact the stream in the banks uh the application indicated approximately 800 square ft of BBW impact uh was proposed the area shown on the plan is closer to, 1450 sare ft um maybe because that's just an approximation but uh we look the clarification on that uh there were several items on the Forum WPA Forum 3 that were not completed uh won't need toen each one of those um and as I said the uh pum three indicates that the project qualifies as a limited project for uh Crossing although uh no reference is given to the limited project uh we recommend that the actual reference to the regulatory uh language is cited so the commission tell if whether it's an appropriate U limit project application and also lastly just noted that the the form three indicates that more than one property there's more than one property only but no addition information was provided on an additional property owners and that pretty much summarizes my comments okay thanks Joe um so I think what we have here is um you know the application is is deficient at this point as far as as what we need um to review we do need the waiver request I also we've we've had a similar site to this uh not too long ago in commission members many of them will probably remember um where we had a tight space getting back to uh test pits at the rear of a site looking to expand to um build another house on a property and um we very specifically had the applicant um as we do I think for most of our applications flag out the path um you know the that the equipment was going to travel in so that you know Joe could could look at that and we could verify and that they could verify um whether any trees would need to be taken down rather than you know just rely on Meandering um through the woods and kind of figuring it out as we go so I think that is important to actually have that mapped out we've definitely had issues very recently um with contractors not having a clearly marked path and um taking down you know really expanding uh the work Zone and at that point it's you know really too late so um I'm happy to do that um you know we we obviously take this pretty seriously in terms of we we don't want to disturb more than what we have to you know to get through there but um I'm happy to flag out a path you know part of the uh when you're drawing the plan one one part of it is to go across the narrowest point narrow narrowest point that may imply the least amount of disturbance may not be the clearest path either so what we'll what what I'll do is I'll uh I'll flag out an area that what I think is the least disturbance for a piece of equipment we're talking a mini excavator not even 8 feet wide to um travel through there uh at the time that we were trying to file this you know we were in a in a drought condition and the situation was very dry and it would have been a easy path out there with minimal impacts to the bank or to the resource area um I will say that you know you keep referring to a Vernal pool there's there's been no evidence submitted or that I know of that this is a Vernal pool out there so uh you know the the fact that you're that you required us to put this potential 12 5 foot uh zone line across the it does not um predetermine that this is a Vernal pool and according to your bylaw I'm not quite sure that it's a no disturb Zone either so um with that I you know I certainly would like to continue the meeting until um your January the second meeting in January and I'll try to assemble the information that you're requiring and uh have it flagged and we can do a site walk I guess okay we'd appreciate that that that works for me does anyone on the commission have any additional um thoughts questions concerns on that plan at this point in time through the chair yes just wanted to point out that there is an oad as of this year that confirms that potential Vernal pool as Vernal pool so that should be considered as such it's it's it's not a veral pool and there was no evidence submitted even suggest it was a Vernal pool and uh we would object to that um interpretation of the ored okay it's um but thank thank you Jody for pointing that out because it is in our file that way so um it is worth at least the commission needs to consider that um okay so so uh like I like I said I'd request that we continue it to the January the second meeting in January okay and hopefully I'll have my other information that will be available and you can we can talk about the whole the whole history of the lot and the bylaw all right that sounds good can I get a motion um from someone to continue this out so moved second I'll second all right all in favor Ed hi Janine hi Jim hi Ted hi Matt hi and I am also an i great thanks very much have a nice holiday you too see next year yeah thank you okay um next up continued hearing 71 West Main Street request for determination of applicability um I believe we have some updated plans to take a look at and is the applicant or the representative on the call Jay hi I'm here uh Jay Gant applicants representative from the architect for the project great um welcome back do you um want to give an update on the changes you've made yes so we have moved moved or I guess located the trash receptacles which you can see uh to the east or you know right of the building and directly behind the parking area outside the 50 Foot buffer zone we were considering a location within the 50ft buffer zone before which was not good this is this is better in a lot of ways uh and um as you can see we're we're proposing some native plantings in the location of the existing ship which we're proposing to remove and um those are the updates to the pl oh the third update is a hbac condenser which is proposed to be right next to the building between the the walkway and the building itself not within the 50 Foot buffer okay okay Yep this is looking better thank you um so is that four okay four blueberries you're showing in the shed location correct so it's not very clearly shown that the the existing shrubs that are there kind of go right up to the shed yeah you can sort of see I dashed you know I kind of ghosted in the the line and so the assumption is that they'll sort of fill that in okay and then so you have a note up there about the invasives was the other thing we touched on at the last meeting correct so we put together an invasive species management plan that that that basically just we're just going to we want to just go through and identify with our landscape contractor if that's acceptable to to go through and um identify the invasive species and and um remove them that's our plan okay all right okay I'm just reading it I don't think I saw this yet um Joe did you by chance take a look at this I know it came in today I did have a chance to look at this you did okay I think I think the only suggestion that I might include with the invas species management plan is um that step number four I think uh where they going to cut the not we didn't and cover with plastic um maybe um prior to covering it that they initially paint the St some herbicide um I know there discussion of herbicide use uh for followup treatment but it might be good to um to uh treat the those stems initially when the plants are cut yeah on Depending on time of year but um you know if it's appropriate time of year that would be I think beneficial okay thank you who the chair this is Ed yes Ed Too Much painful experience in the open space property with not weed sort of echoing what Joe said uh the way parer treated ours was after cutting it then they would scir herbicide down the stock the stock was follow um and like like as as as already proposed carry everything away in plastic bags [Music] okay all right this looks pretty detailed this plan um I think that I'm I'm thinking that's probably something we can we can condition um or add a condition through the vote Judi or Anna do you have any um thoughts on that for that number four to add painting the stems with herbicides when cut through the chair I think that sounds reasonable and happy to help if Jay you need any tips okay all right and if you can bring the plan back up for a second I just want to see if anyone else on the commission has any thoughts or wants to share anything in regard to the changes in the plan I think the four I think the four bushes seems reasonable to me for the given space um so I don't know if you have any thoughts on that for blueberries for that shed space yeah it's a fairly small shed I think yeah probably okay I I'll just add that I appreciate the effort Jay that you and your team put in to make the modifications request it doesn't go on noticed I know this is a back and forth process sometimes it's good I mean it's making the the project better I appreciate the input from everybody yeah okay anyone from the audience have any questions comments feedback no okay um can I get a motion to approve this is an RDA right we de had RDA Okay negative uh determination on this RDA with the condition as discussed about the herbicides um for number four there in the invasive planting plan and signatures by Judy or Anna I'm happy to make that motion okay do we want to add that we are not confirming the Wetland boundaries this is a point of clarity yes yes we do not confirming the Wetland boundaries or any stream yeah all right can I get a uh all in favor um Ed hi Janine hi Jim hi Ted hi Matt hi and I am also an i you all right good luck thanks come back anytime all right um all right back to the work session items um the trails at Legacy Farms red request for additional units to be released from the cease and desist uh Mr be miss you I believe are on the line now yes thank you good evening I know Mr gatley was in attendance earlier I'm not sure if he's still here but I I can um to speak to this um I know initially he had requested the release of 10 units um but yeah pet why don't I take over that please oh go ahead Ben you're there yeah sorry um yeah the end of uh November I sent a request to enter in um Judy for our second release of Foundations we we had 10 released in July they've all been installed most of them are framed and you know proceeding with construction um and like I said these these 10 now have been done since uh about the middle of November so I sent a request for another 10 units to be released and um today I amended it to uh to three units and I sent a revised schedule um to Anna for for the meeting tonight just to lay out all the remaining work left the remaining site work infrastructure and and Foundations and as part of that's sub mittle today I also put a site plan in there that um that keyed the in sequence the remaining what I'm calling eight releases um starting with the three that we would like approved uh for release tonight um like I said we decided to cut back the 10 to three um just to kind of work with the commission and show them um you know that these three can be put in just like the the 10 we recently finished um and and I did make a note that these releases um at least the future releases would really be dependent on um marketing and sales and um but we we've got people in these next three units I'm requesting uh 27 29 and 31 these are the first single units in phase four the uh the previous 10 units were five duplexes um and like I said those are those are now complete so to meet our uh contractual dates with with our buyers um we um we would like to request those three foundations for approval all right so in order to meet our so last time we did Foundation um releases I very specifically remember and we put together a letter on what we needed um from from you in order to even consider release of any additional uh foundations and I believe that included um a schedule it included finishing um which would have been finishing also included the off-site mitigation work and um Swip reports submitting Swip reports um you know per the requirements on time and um you know complete and as of you know noon when I was reviewing all my meeting material we didn't have that documentation from you it wasn't included with your original request um so I I've done several construction schedules I'm not sure we we have weekly meetings and and we change we revise it all the time so um anyways today I submitted the the most recent revised schedule um so you do have that now um I think Peta can speak to the other items you're talking about okay well I think you know this is something that We spelled out uh last time very clearly um in our letter and you know submitting this information today um is a little late for us to be considering at tights meaning I don't think that myself or commission members or our staff have enough time to review what was provided um to make any any decisions tonight on releasing lot so have short reports I'm just trying to understand what it is that I understand you you know the most recent schedule you're just getting today I don't think it it helps to have the prior schedules because they're they're they've been revised so um I think the I believe are up to date I'm not sure what else you mention there if you could um we can pull up the letter we did submit a COC but you're right it did come in today um for the the two offsite areas one one is Ashlin based and the other is hopkington based but uh those those were submitted to each Community um you know the work has been done we we really wanted to go through one heavy rainstorm with it to make sure everything was good and we did get that on Wednesday so we were able to uh confirm everything see everything was was stable and we've we prepared our as builts and submitted it okay we do have it okay that's appreciated I don't I think you know for tonight we're not going to be able to make a decision on um releasing Lots we need to review this information um for ourselves we need we need to do that so um I think that's all I have on this agenda item so we can move to the next one if you like uh regarding the violation discussion can I just ask you if we're if you have everything now uh I don't heing you just got this I don't know because I just got it this afternoon so um you got the new schedule this afternoon um I'm just looking at the other items and just to be clear on what it is that you're I think everything's been submitted so if I understand it's really just the construction schedule that needs to be reviewed the reports and everything else have been submitted okay we did get Swip reports um a few of them were a little bit late and we have not gotten one from the storm from last Wednesday as far as I'm aware um which would be also great to have in a requirement through the season to assist yep so we can review the material that you submitted today okay um and you can get that Swip report in from last week and then you know we can look at that over the course of this upcoming week and then we can let you know um if you know anything is deficient or we need additional information before the next meeting um we can do that okay to make sure we're prepared for next time okay um all right so notice of violation Judy and Anna do you want to go through this one or through the chair um yes so last Wednesday um I went out on site during the storm and observed sediment tracking beyond the limit of work past the silt fence um in the Bas and behind phase four let me pull up my pictures so sediment kind of pressing up against the silt fence behind the Overflow behind the Basin at phase four um as well as a significant amount of sediment coming off of the unstabilized areas um around the roadway for phase 4 um flowing into catch basins which unfortunately had uh silt sacks with holes in them um so these were going straight into the Basin which was pretty Laden with sediment at the time um spoke with Peter and asked for the silt socks to be repaired which I believe he was going to do um there was also some dewatering of the Basin going on into a dirt bag to um try to get some of that sediment out of the water coming off of the Overflow area um I believe Ashland is on the call they've also issued a notice of violation as they saw a sediment entering Reservoir across the street okay all right um so being that Becca I see you um hello thank you for coming and sticking around it's a late night um so I'd like to just give you an opportunity if you want to speak about your you know what you've seen um and want to share with our Miss tonight uh sure can you guys hear me okay yes all right uh I'll just clarify we did not issue a new notice of violation uh we still have our previous existing enforcement order which is still in effect I think we actually have two on different parts of the project um during that storm event we did see sedim entering the wetlands down on um pal Wilson Street um over there coming down from the various parts of the property um we did walk down to the reservoir as well and there was sediment looting in the reservoir water um it was hard to say if that was coming off the site because a lot of the water was not colored from certain parts but there were we just recently had them uh finish the mitigation construction which um Peter I believe will be on our meeting on December 23rd to discuss um the compliance of that with the design um and the uh rate of the water coming off of that did result in some erosion of the soil around the reservoir which ended up into the the reservoir water as well okay I did see at the bottom of the face for Basin I think that was yeah those are the photos the bottom of the face for Basin I think there's photos there um where the three rows of s fence are I think I was there a little bit after you guys and it was over topping those at that point and bringing sediment lead and water down the trail there um and towards the ashin side I would like to be able to speak to those photos before you move on if we can because that those are implying that that that's sediment from our project but it is not uh the water in the uh channel that we constructed where the old corrugated pipe was uh was clear water um so that sediment that you see in the reservoir is a result of the set the sediment at the base of the reservoir um being exposed because there's about 50 feet of Shoreline exposed that's why that sediment was in the in the pond that you could see in that first picture that had nothing to do with sediment coming from the site that sediment uh by the time it reached the Wetland had an NTU of um think was about 80 and the uh n on on base flow in the main channel was 20 so I I don't disagree it's was over 50 I said to Judy that's that's exactly what we got for the readings I I fully agree but by the time that water uh mixed with all the other water it was clear in the main channel that went into the reservoir unfortunately the reservoir has about 50 feet of Shoreline that is flat and that flat Shoreline has to receive water coming from our project plus all of Wilson Street house Street The Watershed up above to North Legacy Farm Road that's a lot of water and it is um causing uh rivulets and and channels to cut into the shoreline um so that's why that sediment was in the in the pond like that not because of our project so I just want that clarified because we tied into the existing sloo way we did not change the slle way that entered the water body of um of the reservoir okay and these observations are things that will be in your Swip yes that we haven't received yet correct right right right and we and we did um we did find the source of the problem we we eradicated it immediately and um and had had it not been for the shoulders of the road not being uh prop treated um and having ruts in them um which which shouldn't have been there but they were uh that caused the transport into the road so Judy's right about her assessment on on where the the sediment came from and uh it's been addressed there's Stone around the road as there should have been and um the site is is is well stabilized and the the problem in the Basin has been eliminated and we're back to a closed Basin okay um JD do you have anything else to add or Becca through the chair no I mean I'm not in a position to say where the sediment in the reservoir came from but I did see it coming off of the Overflow silty and going down that that gradient behind the property so those were those were just my observations yep yeah no matter what we no matter what the source is we we don't want siment going into the reservoir so um you know I think a lot of times there's multiple prongs to these things that that happen but um we still need to figure we still need to figure it out um okay so all right at this point in time um so at this point in time you've put measures in place and you or do you have more to do how how do you feel about the site you know we we get rain I could if if I can share my screen I can show you an exhibit um that that will be further expounded on in the port if if you'd like to I can show you through exhibit or or I can just describe it to you if you prefer you can you should be able to share that's fine okay all right thank you did that come up okay um yes okay great thank you um so uh at the bottom of the sheet um pretty much South would be Walnut Street so that's as you come into the entrance and then this is Waterville uh Lane and these are the 10 units that are constructed um these first two units that are in blue they are but I would say complete with ro with um roof drains um the roof drains are tied in uh Inc complete um the next uh three units uh are in various stages of construction uh but for the most part this entire area is got some stabilization either stone or um stump grindings um in some instances that the driveways are paved um and and or we have stone in those driveways so this area is secure this is where our main construction area is um there there is uh work going on now to install gas main through this section of the site so we are doing excavation work we do it in sections we backfill and we Retreat the ground again this orange here is a stone that's been placed around the perimeter of the driveway um they just finished putting an electrical duck Bank uh through this area um this electrical duck banked area was was fairly stabilized during the the freeze period um when the thaws came and then the Heavy Rain came down in this area there had been some ruts um from construction workers driving off the edge of the road uh and then that rain it did wash out into these lower catch basins that are here that did have silt tchs in them that found to have holes in them um so there's Stone here now um like I'm not sure if I can go to another picture while I'm on the screen but I can show you that there's probably about a 10- foot wide um six to8 inches thick of stone around this entire perimeter to prevent that from happening again uh this is a stockpile of soil that we have to uh repurpose uh with these fills that are located in this area it's just stockpiled here now it has a perimeter fencing at the base of it and has another perimeter of of Sil fence around that that other perimeter so nothing transports out of this area we're constructing the SE pump station right here now um that has protections around it the the Basin is here um this Basin we did some work in this so back during the summer and fall we didn't have a lot of rain but when we did have rain it was functioning properly um we with the storm coming anticipated it would still continue to perform properly but did not so we shut it down and now we're back to a holding cell so we're going to hold all the storm water during storm events and then just release it slowly through filtered bags um that's what we were doing before until we can have the ground you know completely stabilized uh so the picture that Judy showed you she showed you this Culver she showed you this um silt fence here when we did our soil test or or water test if you will that was at this location here um that's where we had the the ad and this main channel here is where we had um basically 20 which is this background that comes from North Legacy Farm Road and when we when I was chest testing it in this channel it was it was clearer than this because it's actually getting added water from other sources the film of of sediment that you could see there was in this area U and it was from all of this water digging up the shoreline and carrying it out into the res res itself it is not not the water coming from this Bas and and contributing to here so I just want to make sure that's fact correct because that's what was happening was not our site so okay so it's 80 it was 80 coming out of your site and then it got diluted you had the benefit of delusion not disagreeing with that okay but but the background which had nothing to do with our site I'm saying I test that up here so that's offline so that we know what the background is yep uh cuz what ends up happening is the water coming off of North Legacy Farm Road there's a very large Watershed and that pretty much just kind of tear when it's raining heavily like it was it tends to tear up the the ba the base if you will of the um channel so you do get some turbidity from it it's not high but it's still there and I actually showed Judy those samples today had cuz I kept them um the water if you looked at it's clear but if you put it into a um turbidity meter you're going to get a reading so um that's just it in a nutshell you know we we we've made this Basin so that it can hold we we've already successfully held over six inches of rain in it we we barely had three on Wednesday so if the Basin had been just shut down and not being used at all we wouldn't have had the circumstance but that's not happened it was online and we've taken it back offline again I'm sorry for that and we've we've done some other mitigation through here and you'll get a report that that identifies all of this okay so it was online because we thought we've had success we we we put the Basin back together again we we cleaned everything up we you know it it we had a good we had a good run there if you will um this this fall we we had hardly any rain that's why the reservoir is so down so much M um but the few times it did rain it was fine we're still doing the same amount of construction out here this road shoulder was was the same condition they had just finished up the underground duck Bank though so the soils were somewhat softer and as a result of the thaw during the freeze period they you know this was all hard ground and these are the three units that VIN is asking you for a release on and we're you know we're doing this very systematically and we're trying to do it in a in a in a methodical fashion so that the commission basically is seeing what's happening we're reporting it you have you have a full you have better control than you've had in the past with this so we recognize that that soils here are difficult to work with and we're trying to respond to them uh accordingly and I actually I can just try to bring up that other picture if it if it'll come up I'm not sure can you see that it didn't change not no it didn't change I'm sorry I'm going to stop the share I'm going to go back and do the share one more time just so you can see what we did along the road Edge not sure why it doesn't let you do that but um so this shoulder that's that's what was in Judy's picture she the water you know that was coming down this the slope was washing through this and there were ruts from construction vehicles having gone off the road when the shoulder was soft after the thaw period mhm so that that's what was causing that water to migrate back out into the pavement now that the Stone's here if a construction vehicle drives off the edge it's not going to do that okay that look going be less likely to do that I should say no that looks helpful okay so we're trying to respond again we'd like to respond time to second guess what might happen but you know as soon as we see something happening we are responsive to um we were there during the event and we did stop that um as quickly as we could when we saw what was happening okay that's that's appreciated it was a big storm um so yeah we need to definitely be all Hands-On deck when those are when those come up especially after drought periods I think it makes it worse right um the siment um there any thoughts questions uh from commission members that you would like to share this is Ed yes Ed your chair and this is this is just a continuation everything seems to be after the fact and we can't seemingly ever get ahead of it and it's disheartening that they releas anyone else to share all right so you'll be in front of it Ashland on December 23rd and that's to discuss um it's to discuss the mitigation work uh that and and then the completed work that we've done in Ashland and that includes that sale where you're saying the wash out happened just Downstream of it uh right yes yes yes yes below the slle way that's right y okay so so i' just like to ask when your next meeting is so that we can be um be ready to to discuss the release uh with you that evening the that um the chair yes forgot to mention earlier that we do need to have clarification from Ashlin that they're releasing Lots from their season desist as well um so they both towns need to release the same lot simultaneously okay is that part of the discussion on the 23rd yes it is yeah okay so our next meeting is January 7th and then we had the following meeting is January 28th so those are our two January meetings okay we'll look forward to trying to do it on the 7th and then we'll we'll double check with staff to make sure they have everything that they need uh from your checklist okay and so just to clarify I think when I say schedule or in my mind what I'm thinking when I think schedule let's not um be more what is the schedule for these type of things the mitigation work and um coc's and things that are you know related to commissions concern Joel that is important phasing of releasing or looking for selling lots and things like that but um what might and I didn't look at I didn't get a chance to look at the schedule that was provided but if you don't have those types of Milestone or things that we are particularly interested in um and then then I think we're going to be lacking detail that we're looking for so um I think if you could work those into the schedule um information if they're not in there already that would be helpful for us to know does that make sense yes okay um all right I think I don't think I have anything else on this other than just keeping Judy and Anna up to speed on um you know mitigation measures that you're putting into place you know to react to this event and in preparation for future events um would obviously be be helpful to us and um we'll look forward to getting that Swip report to take a look at thank you um okay thank you Becca for attending appreciate it all right good thank you everyone yep where are we we're con um 20th century homes Conley Farms request for project change I think I saw should be one of the Nations on the call here chor Craig are you uh presenting or do you have a representative to go over this okay what do you got for us evening all Joe M were not here um want me jump on in there Craig oh yeah sorry I thought I was muted be here to uh offer whatever I can the reason we are here uh tonight is um we're contemplating a change to the uh Conley Farm subdivision approved back uh in March of 2022 um we approached John guch principal planner about uh a change to this uh approval and he suggested Ed that we reach out to uh groups offline to try to get their feedback before we jumped into the formal process DPW and uh this group The Conservation Commission being the two that he uh named specifically uh a few days ago I met with Anna and Judy just to lay out the changes and see what the pathway look like moving forward she suggested we come to before the commission and um lay it out um get your feedback and see where this heads um Judy you want to advance that a little bit you want me to share my screen yeah happy that's the sheet I'm thinking of yeah okay there we go so for orientation this is Hayden R Street this is Emerald Drive that leads up into the subdivision all the homes are out in here um what what we have proposed originally was a 10- foot wide walk from the intersection with uh Emerald Drive and um Hayden R Street in about 500 feet and then we were across um Aral drive and then Meander South easterly across that existing field to reach other land of uh the town of hopkington that was going to be the trail Network that led folks through what was the Dell Farm over to College Street and college Rock um there has been a shift I think in Focus um with the trails committee and uh town meeting um the idea that we would meet a trail that would be constructed along Hayden R Street I think has gone by the boards um the there is very little interest I think given the the rate of traffic uh the speed of traffic and the infrastructure necessary to get folks from other spots like Granite Street um other potential Trail heads to this spot so um given that what we have um explored is uh a change in the location of this path uh do you mind scrolling down Judy to the other that one more page two more pages one more if you wouldn't mind so what we are proposing now and the um Hayden row is down to the bottom left we're about uh in the middle of the project that thick gray line that runs across the the plan from Southeast to Northwest that's the existing foot path used by bikers and hikers uh across the site um they have been using that continuously throughout construction it leads from um parcel owned by the town off of Kimble road down to the Dell Farm um that is a better spot quite frankly for a path the path through the existing field to um other land of the town of hopkington down at the southeast Corner also requires brush clearing tree clearing and construction of the trail this existing path meets the dwinell farm in an area that is lawn um does not need any updates to the location um it links um other potential properties like um Cornell's uh the Cornell Fields um um Davenport Lane it it just creates an awful an awful lot of opportunities that may be better than um the spot that it was originally proposed when the trail was um at a different spot and and a I guess a different mindset so um we feel this location uh works it's got the support of um the trails Hopkin and Trail coordination and management committee the open space commission um Craig and Chris have done some leg work to to bring everybody involved uh get their opinions and now we're at the point where we would like this board to wait in um and give us your thoughts on on the proposal all right thanks Joe um Ed I can tell you're itching to talk about this one and I'd love to hear your your thoughts being from open space space supports this 100% okay we have walked it talked it with other members of Hal and all support this okay to the chair um prior to being disbanded the uh Trails management uh committee supports this supported this as well okay um yeah it seems like a a seems it makes sense to me and um if gets Ed's vote then gets my go my vote um anyone else have any questions on this oh I did have one question so if it so it's going to require an easement who um does that easement go to like who's who responsible for the trail or can do maintenance on it is it go to like open space or um is it is it the commission is it the DPW do you know anyone I'm sorry I do not craigg any thoughts okay um no I I don't know it's over three of the house Lots Beyond where they would uh you know beyond that detention Basin so uh I guess I'd throw that question back at maybe Ed for open space like who maintains the trails I mean currently just the people who use the trails maintain them when we started building in there the the tra raail went right sort of right through the center of that detention Basin um and as we built it it just sort of naturally went right where that Gray Line is essentially so the people who use them maintain them okay yeah this is that I have I have one more comment um I am touched that this Trail is known as the billboard Trail and I hope that that nomenclature is not lost um and and and open space because this is going to be um at least partially on open space I would assume that open space will see to it that the trail is maintained as appropriately as it should be yeah okay that sounds good um before before we leave this topic yep good Judy would you mind scrolling back up to the original page oh down one I'm sorry down one I I should note that that section that runs through the buffer zone was 10 foot wide on the original plan you can see there that we're now in green with that location we're going to be 5 foot wide so there will be a change there we will be reducing the width of the pavement through that section in the buffer zone at some point when we get to the end of this um you'll be seeing a 5 foot wide walk through that location not 10 okay okay so since this is a request for a project change um I don't know if we have to but it might make sense to to vote um so you have formal support from the commission also I guess to document that that walkway change um on the plans I don't think it would hurt um so if unless anyone else has any questions comments concerns on this plan I'd look for a motion to approve the project change request and support the um support the trail is shown in the existing location this is that I'll make that motion quick quick question do our orders typically have language in them for the protocol for a project change this is the first time I'm encountering it I think since I've joined who the chair yes sna so typically when um a change comes in like that like this um the commission can either decide that it is a minor change or they can decide that it's a major change and would need uh the filing of an amended notice of intent so um in this case this plan would become you know an an additional plan of record for when they go to apply for a COC it will be documented as an approved project change that it won't be matching that original plan of record that they need to refer to this plan of record okay great so this was a yeah this is a formal request for the commission to act on a project change correct yeah so you're it sounds like um based on what I'm hearing tonight is the commission is deeming this as an insignificant project change and is not requiring the filing of an amended notice of intent perfect thank you for educating me on this process for for how we handle it yeah okay so I think I think we got a second there um so all in favor Ed hi Janine hi Jim that Jim I okay Ted I Matt I and I am also an i so thank you for the presentation and yeah have a good night all right um last but not least 27 Jamie Lane request for certificate of compliance um Anna or Judy do you want to go through this or do um have anyone on the call that wants to discuss do the share um I'm happy to but I believe this is also another of Joe's projects so if you'd prefer okay sure Joe you're on uh Rick lap is the owner of uh 27 Jam Lane um and uh a an order of condition issued uh quite some time ago uh the home is up for sale came up during um the review of the due diligence by the BIOS attorney that the um order of conditions have never been closed out so we did a a survey located the pertinent site features out there we're able to um pull forward from our files some of the information from I believe 1995 um I'd have to check that um and this is the result3 93 so this is the result of uh that survey uh some lawn area in the back um some shrubs and and tree planting and a shed I think are um different from the original order um but all I guess kind of in keeping with uh um where the commission is at the area is stabilized um there there not a a lot of hardscapes out there that are um within the the 50t simply some lawn area um and Rick is on the call as you see looking for the issuance of that COC okay um Joe did you look uh have any comments on this one that you want to go through uh yeah just a few um again the uh order of conditions was issued quite some time ago November of 92 um relative to the uh changes that were noted uh on the existing conditions plan um the uh area that was described as grading beyond the original proposed erosion neol barrier appears to be uh lawn extension into the 50 Foot notice derb so you can see that sort of U where the tree line kind of bends down as no no disturb Zone that's U where that uh extension occurred being what was was approved um the S is obviously well stabilized it's no erosion issues were observed um there is a quite large U leaf and brush pile located um Southwest of the of the shed area um you know I just want to to bring that up I know in the past sometimes the uh the commission has requested that those be removed this is a fairly substantial uh deep uh pile of leaves and brush uh maybe being contributed to by by more than one property with respect to the the filing uh documents uh there was no recording information on the order which is required um they both the special condition number 14 and the uh number 17 um the bylaw appendix e form was not signed the special condition number 19 of the order of conditions uh is that condition that we've come across a few times on the older orders that uh require specific language on the deed conveying the property um not aware if that language was added to the Beed and there were no special on conditions with the order of conditions that concludes my account through the chair yes um yep so we uh while the deed reference was not on the COC application um it was recorded at the registry of deeds and we have that that deed information um the uh appendix e was revised um I think the day after Joe it might have gotten sent to you um so we do have assigned appendix e and then the language that the commission used to require be added to Deeds um this current commission has not continued that policy and has waved that requirement um for these older orders so um it's we learned that it was pretty burom on the applicants to have to revise their deeds to add this additional language and that recording the order and subsequent COC should hopefully provide that same um information um for protection so just to clarify a couple of Joe's comments there okay okay and this is Rick lap I just want to thank thank you for taking time to review this I really appreciate it um one of the just for clarification on two things the lawn the lawn area that was there has it's not an extension it was other than you know beyond I guess where it was originally staked I guess but the developer or the or the Builder when when uh they graded the property that that was that was like originally where the grass was planted where transition happened between what was graded and the dirt and the uh where the natural uh shrubs and trees tree line so I guess that's kind of naturally kind of where the grass wound up and then uh just as far as as as far as the brush bit that's kind of an area that I've taken the trees the pieces of the pine trees and the and the shrubs are in the area and piled them in there it's it's just that that is actually just the stuff from our our yard that's in there um and maybe it's got spread out because I tend to try and spread it out so it decomposes quickly so my I might have been overzealous in my spreading it out a bit that's kind of that situation back there so okay okay um so thank you for the that explanation um I think so the only thing here there's no pibs currently on your property are there uh nothing that I'm aware of medallions or anything no nothing that I'm aware of okay you know when when I first moved in there was some blue tapes on some of the trees that's you know I knew that that area was the was the wetlands area that you know couldn't be disturbed that there were some just just blue tapes on some of the Tre okay um being that this is this is going to a new new owner um I don't know if you'd be aimal to putting up some pib markers um or if the other members of the commission think that's appropriate or not um on this application but we have I don't know if you've seen them before they're just little medallions that you can nail to the tree along the tree line every I think 40 feet or so and it makes people aware of you know where that line is that you shouldn't be dumping or creeping lawn or um I don't I don't think there would be I guess I don't see an issue with that um there are a few trees I guess a along the edge there that that would work for that um does anyone else on the commission have any thoughts or questions concerns on this um Melissa this is Jim I think that's a great thought um Mr lat may know where the boundaries are now but the the new homeowner won't know U so that's a great idea I appreciate if he would do that okay we certainly can do that once I once I find the process to make that happen Yeah Anna and Judy had you we still have um those that they can be purchased or obtained from our office correct we do do have them available free of charg through our office yes yeah thank you Anna so they can help you out with that um okay is this something that I think we can go ahead and um close this one out out tonight yeah I would agree you agree with that condition okay so that condition with the pibs as well as um we waving the requirement to add the deed language oh it doesn't hurt to put that in there either um anything else I think that's it can I get a motion to that effect I'll make that motion through the chair um with signatures with signatures by I'll that motion to include signatures by Anna Andor J second and all in favor Ed I recuse myself okay Janine hi Jim hi Ted I Matt hi and I am also an i thanks for hanging in here with us Mr lap thank you very much for your time appreciate it yeah and have a happy holidays you too all right I think that's we don't have any public forum requests right no through the chair I think the only other thing um at least I had on my list was um also from the storm last Wednesday um the Hopkins school edition project um they notified um Judy and myself that um they were actively monitoring the site and there was a small area near the existing detention that the water was following the erosion controls and then dipped and found a way underneath a walking path and then came out and a little bit of sediment did get into the Basin so Judy and I did look at it on Friday you know we thanked um the applicant for notifying us um of the problem and they have installed some additional erosion controls and we'll be actively monitoring it to ensure that that doesn't happen again so we do think the applic for self-reporting um during that storm that's good definitely appreci that appreciate that um all right anyone have anything else just the motion too Daren all right perfect can I get a second second second all in favor Ed Ed do the Hat flip Meine Jim Jim Ted Matt hi and I'm am also an I um so all right thank you all and Happy Holidays happy holidays thanks you all for the gift thank you yes thank you very much well you're welcome see you next year see you next year happy all right bye I lost all the picture e for