all right folks it's uh 7 o'clock we'll call the meeting to order we have a quorum this is the Tuesday April 9th 2024 meeting of the hopkington Conservation Commission so jump right into work session items we have documents for review Kim so we've got one Fox Hollow Road and extension uh and we've got certificates of compliance associated with masok Woods that was a project that the order expired and then they refiled so there's two coc's Associated okay you want to pass those down and we'll sign them or I was going to request that you authorize me to sign on your behalf okayy the process if I get a motion to have Kim sign on behalf of the members present so moved and a second second all in favor I opposed all right okay minutes for review February 6 2024 and March 26 2024 any comments or questions from the commission if I can get a motion to approve both sets of those minutes please so move and a second second all in favor I I opposed it's awesome not having to do the roll call vote um okay 56 Downey Street this is a violation discussion um Mr go you can step up sir good evening so Kim did you want to give us a little bit of background on what happened sure at the property please all right so this site has an approved order of conditions for the construction of a single family home the commission did recently approve additionally an amendment to the project filing to include a dock part of the application uh the original permit plan is in the back of your packet the plans for the project part of the project was to do uh a restoration area Lakeside Landscaping that we've been encouraging um uh because the project was originally the land was cleared um in violation of the the you know the bylaw and it was something that Anna and I had caught stopped and then that triggered the filing so this restoration area was part of the the filing application uh Anna was driving around doing other site inspections and she noticed that there there appeared to be loan beyond the approved limit of work so she took a look we took a look it looks like LOM was LOM sand it's really like a lomy sand that was spread out there it was probably what was left over from the construction of the foundation was kind of push down the slope um to create you know a nice smooth landscaped area and so it went beyond that 50 foot uh no disturb and P the limit of work silt fence the applicant has since installed plantings um so the Sor I am Rusty with this presentation the original notice of violation and Order of conditions required eight replacement tree plantings with a minimum 8ot height or 3-in caliber so the applicant has installed four red Maples approxim 5 ft in height and 1 in caliper Four Oaks approximately 3T height and less than 1 in caliper in total there's about 50 Woody plantings the majority of which are in the 50ft no disturb they include red maple Oak speckled Alder Winterberry and blueberry and then additionally there's eight perennial plantings some of them are native some of them I've never heard of chocolate snake root I have no idea what that is um lest of nurseries might know uh and then Additionally the applicant placed 1.5 pounds of conservation seed mix um it's my so I we issued the notice of violation last week April 4 April 4th or second and I took a look at it again today I found all the additional plantings um it's my professional opinion at this point that scraping up the spread LOM may result in more damage than good and um um obviously you know we're happy about the additional plantings and that's the applicant has made an effort to try to comply ahead of ahead of the meeting uh that being said I'm not sure how many of the plantings Will Survive because Wetland plants were kind of planted in the Upland so um those may not do as well in that location so there's a notice of violation the violation just said come to the meeting to discuss so the commission needs to discuss how to proceed and you know what what direction to give the applicant to come into compliance so is that a recent picture there Kim this was today yeah so it doesn't really look like the slope is stabilized that well no I would say it's not stabilized very well okay so that's uh one thing that the applicant needs to address with spring coming and you know some of the precipitation of events we get mhm if that's not stabilized properly you know that's all going to wash down into the into the lake um so you know I I would recommend so it was a pound and a half of seed mix that was spread out Kim yeah it covers like 1900 Square ft one pound covers around 1900 sare ft and I would suggest um apart from that I was communicating with Kim at all the points yeah but what happened was uh I did not understand that Landscaping is different from construction because I was allowed to plant trees 10 ft from the lakee so I was not aware of the fact that I cannot go that far okay this is uh this is a mistake which has been and I was every step of time I was came about it like uh I hope uh I think so there's a miscommunication we had in between us regarding the work area but uh I was communicating with you every single step of the time so that I don't have any violation and as Kim recommended and she gave me a list of plans so I went and ahead with the another 30 plans 30 additional plans so initially I had eight trees plus another uh 30 shrubs and and I added 30 more to it the thing plus the the conservation seeds as well so 60 total 6 plants yeah plant 60 yes and then 12 Trees eight trees nine trees nine trees okay so the site need I think needs to be stabilized and I would suggest um a hydro seed with a tack of fire um because it's just not going to you know the hay that you have there um I I just with the slopes on the property I don't think that's going to hold to be honest with you and I just don't want you to be in another situation where you have another violation then you have to and then all the work you did you know gets washed down into the into the bottom of the slope I did put additional seeds on the top with the T as well okay I I not sure that that seating will stay put okay I can yeah I would I would get a tack fire on it or something and cover it okay just because it's a steep slope there okay yeah um okay so and you know again thank you for communication with Kim staying in touch with her putting the plantings in and being proactive we appreciate that I guess there's a couple items for the commission you know one is the trees that were installed weren't the proper caliper so is that something that uh needs to be addressed or are we we good with the size that was installed um or planted excuse me um or do we need you know a couple more trees um the problem is the bigger size the trees they cannot be trans transported now to the site because it's so right and there's no way we can take a 3p like 10 ft high threee with like two or three people can I had Anna model for size she's unhappy about it okay well let me open it up to comments and questions from the commission members I have a question about the trees are they at least planted in the right spots the overwhelming major I can follow is there a chance you could put this on the screen and when you say there was stuff put in the no disturb Zone kind of point out where on the map stuff was put and then maybe you could point to the trees that are in the right spot even if they're too small which I think is disappointing so the original plot plan had all of the shrubs and trees concentrated here within about 15 ft 15 25 ft M uh so these trees along this side of the of the parcel were planted and then now basically I would say 40 ft to the edge of the lake this is all planted at this point uh kind of sporadically planted so they are all within the 50 Foot no disturb except for maybe two red Maples which are up here how could you have gotten all those trees planted above it seems like not possible well you did double the amount of basically double the amount of plantings that we requested would we be the same density close to the lake uh they're fairly dense close to the lake yeah and I'm sorry you said some of the plantings are Wetland plantings but now they're Upland that would be in the area where your cursor is now yeah so we don't know if those are going to make it okay so when is is the house going to be finished uh 26th of April is the closing date the closing date okay so you know we don't want a new homeowner to be handed off the responsibility of taking care of the issues here so the 26 is you know 10 days away or whatever it is um you know I think we need [Music] to get the Hydra seed down I can get the hydro done sooner rather than later and then I think there's going to have to be an agreement between you and the homeowner that there'll be some continued monitoring on your part okay um you know because again we don't want uh we don't want the homeowner to be on the hook for you know fut work if the plantings don't survive or if it's wash out that type of thing okay okay um Kim anything else uh just wanted to verify with the commission that you're satisfied with the trees that were planted because there is a condition in the order that where uh the trees from the original violation needed to be mitigated for before occupancy so that's number one and number two um are you still happy with the PV locations kind of given the change of the layout here I'm good with the with the trees you know because of the additional plantings that were put in okay um where are the locations of the pibs again I'm sorry pibs are here so maybe we should move those to the east a little bit more is that your suggestion at this point basically 40 ft to the lake is all planted so I guess you know does the commission want to insinuate that those plantings need to stay in perpetuity or are you okay with having them you know right as as they're shown on this map they're probably about 20 feet off the edge of the lake and about 5 to 10 feet off the edge of the BBW which is here yeah because we don't want the homeowner coming in and cutting them all down you know once they they've grown out after a couple of years I think we just lose jurisdiction of them too they're outside ioving I don't know move it up I believe yes move it closer to the house okay if we can do that Kim how close where is the edge of the new plannings where they're bulked so Anna and I measured off it's 40 ft in the field I I mean it's probably like right about here on this plan but it's 40 that might be a little bit too far I think 40 ft from the from from the water maybe we can kind of go halfway right in right in that area that seem reasonable to everyone yeah may just put on the 25 foot buffer line I think that's fair establish the 20 or 25 ft off the the bank and where are they now how many feet they're not installed um where's the plan put them how many let's scale it off all of our PR plans are at half scale it looks like at most 10 ft yeah it's a pretty small slide I don't want to split they're at they're currently at about 15 I think 25 sounds reasonable so pib is to be set 25 ft off the bank of the leg what's pi a permanent immovable barrier it's just a medallion you put up let the homeowner know that you know the area from the D down to the lake is protected okay I guess that's another good question at this point there's fresh loan seed and small sapling plantings what would you like the pib do you want to be more specific about what you're expecting for a p there's not really anything to attach it to I sure I'm tired of pibs being ignored the more obvious we make it the better it is an attractive fence with the Viv markers on it I'd be afraid to I wouldn't I mean I would just make sure to have a split because we still want to you know access to the light a split rail fence with a center part the medallions a center opening are you are you aable to that but like the fence would go with the concrete at the bottom would I be allowed to do that a fence would go with the kind of I mean I would suggest like a wooden split rail fence that looks nice like a cedar you know type thing Pine but you know when the post goes in the ground it'll be attached with concrete or cement something like that yeah I think that's I think this is a l of the post right yeah so the so the Medallion will be on the fence post are you talking about the fence post or the post that The Medallion will go on the fence I think it's okay to put the and you probably don't need to but if you want to put concrete in you know just as long as it's in the post hole you know and it's not spilling out a Sil fence which will block everything going into the lake so Fen is up great cim there are compost socks so the intent is to have those until the area stabilizes but the split rail fence is more of a permanent okay situation yeah okay Kim I can explain it to you um you know I I don't understand this defense um I don't know if you can see it just to try to help that's a split rail oh okay oh awesome we're talking all about the same thing right yeah yeah okay but it'll have an opening in the middle so that you can get down to the lake okay you so you don't have to jump over the fence access the lake yeah I got it okay and then the T and then the seed mix with the tacka fire if you can get that in you know in its fear benefit is we expecting rain you just don't again you don't want all that washed you know down into the lake or down to the bottom of the slope um because it's just going to be more work for you okay Mr go yeah sorry so just in summary prior to the occupancy permit will be looking for that seating with the tack of fire and the split rail fence to be installed with the medallions I can provide the medallions for you okay all right all right okay thank you sir thank you a good evening again thanks for the communication with Kim thank you okay new hearings uh town of Hopkinson this is 90 104 Hayden row a notice of intent for an addition actually you the I can kind of wing it Conservation Commission will hold a public hearing on Tuesday April 9th 2024 senior senat 28 mayew Street to hear all person's interest and notice of intent file by the town of hopkington to construct an addition with Associated site work location is 104 Hayden row assessors map 120 or u21 block 7 lot zero and a portion of 90 Hayden row assesses Mathew 21 block three lot zero good evening good evening the whole crew here tonight yeah gang's all here thank you uh for the record my name is CLA hogman with LEC environmental Consultants I'm a wetland scientist on the project um and joining me tonight is Steve Powers with Samy od's Engineers he's the civil engineer on the project and here to talk about the civil components and storm water design of the project also joining me is Chris Everly with uh vertex uh the project manager for this school project uh we also have uh Rob Blanchard with uh commodora Builders he is the contractor um for the project and finally behind us cheering us on is Tim Pearson uh the director of facility with uh the town of Hopkinson good evening everyone good evening um so I guess first off I just want to go through the existing conditions of the site I think most people are familiar with it but just to give us a refresher we were here before the commission uh over the winter for an oad yep that's a good plan to start with um we submitted an anrad application to uh confirm Wetland resource bar uh Wetland resource area boundaries on the site and in proximity to the site um but first and foremost this property uh sort of outlined in dark black line work is uh 104 Hayden R Street and that hosts a majority of the Hopkins uh Elementary School um development we have the oh that'll be for l oh that's actually good too so we have the building itself in the Eastern portion of that that smaller parcel and um it's surrounded by pavement parking lots as you can see Loop Road starts off of Hayden row Street providing access to the high school continues south from the cursor goes into the elementary school and Loop Road exits in that Southwestern portion of the site and just as the name says loops around um a portion of the development associated with Hopkins Elementary School does extend on to the larger parcel that's 90 Hopkins uh or Hayden row Street um so ultimately our site does extend partially onto that parcel that'll be important for our discussion later when we talk about Riverfront area but I just wanted to include this overall image showing the two Parcels that um the S is partially on um again we came to the commission a few months ago to receive confirmation of the Wetland resource area boundary we confirmed do you want to go back to that existing condition sheet perfect we confirmed that bordering vegetated wetlands are within the northern and Eastern portion of the property and a small segment in the southwestern portion of the property so that uh places the 100t buffer zone onto again the northern and Eastern portions of the site and the southwestern portion during that review we also confirmed that a USGS topographic um mapped perennial stream is located in the very Northern portion of that site so the meain annual high water line was approved through the oad and we show the 200t riverfront area within the northern portion of the site and as you can see the riverfront area is largely comprised of that bordering vegetated Wetland there's a good amount of forested Upland as well but there is a segment of that riverfront area that extends into existing manicured lawn that's utilized as a baseball field for the students um and general you know play areas between the parking lot in the northern portion of the site um we also have the two existing uh detention basins for storm water one in the western portion and one in the northeastern portion of the site just east of the Loop Road Site entrance I believe that sort of covers existing I conditions um so ultimately I'm going to pass things off to Chris to talk about the project but it's generally including the addition of a two-story building um that's going to be added on to the existing School building to the West I think if you want to go to yeah just maybe the next sheet down will show the building addition Chris will that work for your discussion okay great um in addition to the school addition there's going to be installation and reconfiguration of paved parking lots um and improvements to the vehicular circulation around the site um we also have uh new athletic field and play areas that'll be um utilizing the existing baseball field that I just spoke about and the existing conditions um some new and reconfigured utilities Landscaping Associated grading with all of these features um and storm water management infrastructure improvements um and reconfigurations as well that uh Steve will get into after Chris goes into a bit more um detailed discussion on the project itself thank you um so as you may have heard in town already um the Hopkins project came about because of the increased enrollment that the school is experiencing the Hopkins school currently is overc capacity in terms of the number of students that it can support and it's reached the point where it's required to have windowless classrooms as well as repurposing space that was originally for other uses for other classrooms the project is intended to add a 28,000 ft addition the goal of that addition is to increase by about 10 classrooms and two PE spaces um that will allow them to um host 802 students um this is part of a study that began with the school committee in early January where they reviewed the overall District to understand the um expansion needs and to make a decision about the Elwood project they found that the Hopkins school was the highest need and so this project arose out of that the site development is largely focused on supporting the enlarge school both um in terms of providing adequate traffic as you may know if you have kids in the school they often have to park at the edges of the driveways in order to support the number of cars that are um there during the day and so we're increasing the parking count for the increased enrollment will be able to restore a lot of the preferred educational spaces as part of this process and ultimately we expect to add um if you look to the far left of the drawing there um that last little rectangle on the addition there right there is the modulars those would be existing modulars that exist at the Elwood school now those would come approximately a year after we finished construction so we would be looking at creating a phased plan uh the school committee has engaged with Commodore building uh Commodore Builders to serve as the construction manager for the project and they have developed a phasing plan that would take a lot of the proposed um parking area that is to the north of the building and create that early in the project as an asphalt area in order to provide both additional parking for um mobilizing the construction as well as to provide a uh paved play area for the students over the course of the year the addition would begin we expect in as early as September of this year and it would continue through February break of 2026 at which point it would open and house students while we do a remainder of the Interior Renovations we expect that there'll be two major phases of interior res Renovations which will occur in the summer of 2025 and then in February through the summer of 2026 with the modular one year after that um Kim could you go one slide back uh again Steve pow the civil engineers for the project um this is the uh site prep and um erosion sediment control plan I figured we'd start here and then work our way into the uh utilities grading in in storm water um this is coming out a little bit lighter on this uh this is essentially what we're looking at for a limit of disturbance uh hatched area um throughout most of the western portion of the site uh the work that you see on the Eastern portion of the site is is really just reconfiguration of you know the The Pedestrian walkways um around the property as well as some Mill and overlay of the existing pavement um including the Loop Road uh the pavement is in pretty uh poor condition overall so if we're going to go through and and and really put a um a nice addition and and and renovate the school we want to make sure the site infrastructure uh can accommodated and and and looks nice as well um we are removing um a chunk of uh parking to the Western portion of the site um and then everything sort of um skews to the to the Western portion where the majority work is getting done but for the most part we are keeping the uh the Eastern portion including the uh the access points uh to the rear the school the north of the school uh plan up um and then to the uh Southern portions of the school where're we're adding a a bus drop off as well go to ahead yes um so this is the grading actually if you can go one more so this is the um the utilities plan and it does show uh the grading um as I mention mentioned before the um the the original School the or the current schools on the Eastern portion of the site um it's not highlighted on the western portion of the proposed Edition as Chris spoke about um we are expanding the parking lot on the Northern property uh to the West uh that is a reason why we're in front of you we are encroaching a bit into the the 200 foot outer riparian zone as well as a portion of the 100 foot buffer zone um we've configured everything to the best of our ability to stay out of that 75 fot uh buffer zone as well um one of the areas that we are um encroaching a little bit into it and the northwest corner is really the outlet for the storm water um infiltration system that we're putting in to accommodate the increase in impervious area uh the only reason for that is the grades we're just trying to outlet and make sure we can daylight to that um so that is the only um real encroachment into um those those inner buffer zones that we're proposing for the project go to the next one um this is essentially our storm water management plan um we're meeting the Massachusetts storm water management um uh policy as well as the town of Franklin um storm water bylaw um the infiltration system as you can see is right um right to the northwest of the proposed Edition uh we're proposing that under the existing excuse me the uh the reconfigured field um we're tying in the new SAR conveyance system which will be part of the U the Western portion of the parking lot uh running it through deep sum catch basins um storm water quality units and then discharging into the infiltration system to meet um on-site detention requirements as well as infiltration requirements and as I mentioned previously that that outlet um is heading north um into uh just inside the the woods uh it's right on the edge of where the Disturbed area is now so right at the edge of the the woods currently it's mostly lawn in those areas and we should know for the committee's understanding the circles that are shown to the south of the um infiltration system we are pursuing a geothermal wellfield as part of this that's a closed loop system so we won't be taking water out of or returning water to the ground as part of that system how deep are the wells um currently 500 feet how many um 35 um existing utilities sanitary water um will remain relatively the same we're um expanding the loops for the water around the building uh to make sure we could um continue the loop uh but tiing to the existing system there's a sanitary lift station um on the Eastern portion of the existing building um we'll be maintaining that and and tying in the proposed addition into that area as well um and the last thing I want to mention with respect to the storm water is in the Southeastern Corner um there's a depression in that area and what we've tried to do is um there there is some allowance for existing drainage to be picked up in this low area on the Southeastern portion and then hydraulically connected across the road um what we're looking to do as part of this is is really put in some low impact development and and include a rain Garden in there so we're going to improve that area um um excavated it out a little bit um put in landscaping planting materials that with wet feet that can again provide additional storm water quality um to the area right all right um I'll jump back into we have some Landscaping features to talk through Tim I guess if you want to go down the sheet lp101 Maybe if this PBF a little more hard plan okay maybe it's 24 this probably includes the exhibits right okay I think that's yeah so we'll just talk briefly about this one um we have the field space that I spoke about earlier the athletic field space that's going to be 240 ft by 170 ft um it's just large enough to accommodate and uh 10 uh soccer field with some runoff space as well and this plan also shows sort of in the gray spotted um hatching is The Hardscape part of the plan so the athletic field is surrounded by a six foot wide walking path that's going to accommodate for the students to run during PE classes um and gym class things like that so um that's going to be LED with asphalt um and a portion of that I'll get into a graphic that shows the resource area boundaries a little more clearly but the Northwestern portion of that uh six foot wide walking path is within the 100t buffer zone and a very small segment of it extends into the 75 ft um but again the path and the athletic field itself is all proposed within existing manicured lawn and it's not going to extend into the existing tree line um there's no irrigation proposed with the athletic field either um as well um and as far as the planting plan goes uh the landscape architect Traverse put together a very detailed planting plan that's uh provided on subsequent sheets within the plant set here but this overall sheet generally shows that there's uh a series of scattered shade trees um perennial grasses um and perennial orous cover that'll be provided throughout the school complex um most importantly what I want to note which will come up later is in the northern portion of the site uh just under landscape plan uh to the left there that's our proposed restoration area uh it totals approximately I have too many numbers on this page 4,626 square feet but that's where some resource areas overlap so a portion of that's going to be in our Riverfront area a portion of that's going to be located in our 100 foot buffer zone to provide some restoration plantings for the work that we're proposing in uh both of those resource areas um I believe that's it you spoke about the bio retention area in the Southeast Corner that's going to have plantings in it as well and be improved so with that I think I'm ready to hop into one important note um I mentioned that the modulars are delayed by one year because they'll still be in use at Elmwood so the plantings that immediately border the modular would not be in place at the time that we have certificate of occupancy on the building those would be something that would be developed as part of bringing the modulars over we wanted to present it to you as a completed plan as opposed to presenting it as a separate entity because it's easier to understand the stages that we'll be moving through this yeah um I think I'll jump over to the exhibit that first sheet on that um and we can jump to any other plan sheets but I figured this would be the easiest one for us to visualize our resource area boundaries here so in solid green is the bordering vegetated Wetland boundaries we have the a series to the north and to the east there this is a segment of our B series so the solid yellow line work going outward from that green Wetland boundary we have the 50 foot the 75 ft and the 100t buffer zones in solid yellow in the Blue Line work is that mean annual high water boundary to The Perennial stream in the northern portion of the site and then dashed Green Line work is going to be the inner riparian Zone and the dashed yellow is going to be the 200t riverfront area so as we can see from this footprint um before I get to the northern part of the site that's the more complicated overlap of everything Southwest West and the East portions of the site are within the buffer zone to bordering vegetated Wetlands we have some work extending into the 75 foot buffer zone in the southwest and some extending into the 50 Foot on the east as well however Those portions of the project are all um improvements to the existing entrance and egress from the site um so any work within paved areas is not going to extend any closer to the bordering vegetated wet and boundaries than existing conditions it's essentially going to um just improve the degraded Pavement in sight and um in some of these areas sort of reconfigure it to accommodate the new um circulation that's going to accommodate um the students here so in the northern portion of the site where we have the 100t buffer zone and interior buffer zones overlapping with the riverfront area the portions of the project located within those jurisdictional areas includes our athletic field and the six foot wide uh asphalt path the storm water outfall that Steve described earlier in his discussion a portion of the um parking lot expansion in the northern portion of the site and uh grading associated with all those features I think what I'll talk about first is the buffer zone impacts um um the parking lot expansion does extend partially into existing vegetated portions of the 75 ft and 50ft buffer zone um approximately 26 Square ft within the 50ft buffer zone and approximately 318 ft within the 75t buffer zone that uh 318 ft accounts actually for the parking lot and the small segment of the uh walking path that goes into the 75t um in total there's 344 Square ft of naturally vegetated buffer zone that will be impacted by these impervious areas within the restoration area that we're proposing in the 100t buffer zone um approximately 3,222 Square ft of that is in the 100 foot buffer zone so we're looking at about a 1:9 ratio of impervious area um to the restoration area in the 100 foot um the storm water outfall itself um any uh permanent impacts associated with that activity are located outside of the 50 Foot no uh no disturb or um no build Zone that would be associated with any storm water outfall storm water design features uh so the structure itself is outside of um that Municipal buffer zone however we have about about 31 squ ft of temporary impacts in the 50-ft buffer zone to accommodate construction access so the project includes restoration of any of those areas with um a native Wildlife Conservation seed mix that's proposed in our restoration area as well um again any grading that's shown any consider um considered pervious areas uh is other than the 300 plus square feet uh for the parking lot are within existing lawn area and just hopefully briefly going into Riverfront area I'm sure we're ready to ask questions but um the riverfront area is one of the more tricky uh resource areas we had to configure here do you want to go to the um third sheet that's great um so the aerial image I shared earlier that showed that the school sort of spans or is entirely encompassed in this parcel and SP and only extends into this small segment of a huge parcel at 90 Hayden row um the riverfront area calculation for overall Riverfront area on the site technically in accordance with the regul regulations should be accounting for the total Riverfront area on both 90 and 104 Hayden row street but considering that the development with this school is very Consolidated into this area and it seemed a little um expansive to utilize all of the riverfront area that's located on 90 Hayden row what we did is we drew a straight line between the Western extent of our mean annual high water boundary to the Western extent of our limit of work or where it was identified that sort of development associated with the school property itself sort of ended and then became development associated with other portions of the site so from that line East uh to the Eastern end of 104 Hayden Row the smaller parcel is how we calculated that overall Riverfront area and it's shown in blue as far as where the portion of Riverfront area that were're not proposing any work in anything in green blue pink or yellow is included in that overall Riverfront area calculation but the purpose of this image was to also share sort of how we divided out other calculations for work within Riverfront area so in pink we have our restoration area shown and in yellow we have the storm water components and restoration and storm water are not included in the calculations to um determine if your Project's meets the performance standards for work within Riverfront area so we excluded those calculations from um that and ultimately only included what's in green which is um areas that we're going to be grading and um creating perious areas and the darker blue is the impervious areas parking lot um walking path that's within the 200t riverfront area um so all in all our total Riverfront area that we calculated for the site is 135,50 2 square feet um so in accordance with the regulations you can propose work within either 5,000 square ft or 10% of that whichever is greater so the 10% would be 13530 square feet and ultimately the combination of our green and blue colors of our work footprint total is 10,924 square ft so we are under that 10% threshold and considering this methodology to determine the overall Riverfront area for our site it's quite a conservative approach um considering if we used the riverfront area for the entire larger parcel we'd have much more um square footage to work with if we were going with 10% so going with what's more appropriate for the site itself self we're still underneath threshold um and in compliance with the regulations for that um I I'm sure I could keep going on forever about Riverfront area I think we're good with that yeah so I just wanted to explain that a little further because it gets a little complicated but ultimately you know we have the uh restoration area within the riverfront area as well to provide mitigation ultimately you know designing this Pro project in an effort to minimize impacts to Riverfront area comply with all the performance standards and provide mitigation um to improve conditions on the site as well so yeah I'm just going to pass it on to you guys now all right well it's a nice design when I went to middle school there were three swings a slide and it was full of aestus and lead paint which is probably why I'm as dumb as I am but um Joe you want to go through your comments sure as you I've been on site a few times associated with the uh filing ofation um I did do a quick stop out recently to take a look at things for the the noo intent filing but uh my comments are primarily with respect to um what was uh filed with the narrative and the the application material um just a minor thing the uh application refers to erosion control barriers variously as U compost socks alone or compost socks with seal fence and we're just looking for clarification as far as uh what's proposed um the area that's proposed is restoration uh noted in the uh narrative that there is some invasive species uh present there um and I recommended that the applicant provide some additional information on how the invasive pieces will be be dealt with in that area as far as removal and Disposal the alternative analysis I thought was uh was pretty well done um I think it's pretty clear there's not a lot of um different alternative locations some ofos I thought they could be a little bit stronger maybe indicating what other locations were at least looked at and why those why those didn't work rather than more of a blanket statement that other locations didn't were not feable the uh Riverfront area um how that was determined was clear to me from but that would just clarify based on presented gu comment on that um that generally you're looking at the river area on each lot um and we have two lots here so I think the number should be split for each obviously you're not going to be anywhere near the 10% on a larger maybe um add or over that on the the smaller lot um and those should be looked at and the numbers I think divided for each lot to make sure that the performance standards are being met I also noted that the uh walking path the ADA Compliant walking path was described uh tonight as a six foot wide path um in the application I saw it referred to I think uh variably as 6 ft wide and 4T wide uh so that should be clarified and if any changes made um based on the impact area numbers that should be um revised I also noted that the uh tables uh there's a table buffers on impact tables uh one two and three that were uh in the submission um it was clear that table three uh corresponded to um the previous River Front area uh sheet three I think U that showed the colored River Front area uh and um the impact areas the tables one and two wasn't so clear the colors seem to be different um and I didn't know exactly what plans those referred to uh so I was requesting that U those also be submitted just to clarify U those tables there were a couple typographical errors which uh you know the uh the uh text of the letter notification did correctly identify the work as a most intent on the site plans uh I did notice that uh there's a reference to using geotextile M on steep slopes which is recommend that uh that either be conditioned or noted that the matting should not contain any plastic netting uh there's some talk a little bit tonight about some sequencing uh phasing I thought that U uh that could be uh beeped up a bit as far as uh including some narrative uh on the phasing proposed for the project also the plan could show any stockpile locations um that may be required uh the plan does not indicate any uh permanent uh immovable barriers uh the commission might want to discuss if there's appropriate pibs for the project and I think the uh my final comment was uh with respect to the proposed restoration area uh there are uh uh cultivars of native species proposed for planting with that in that area I would recommend that uh at least for the restoration area only non-ul ours be used the commission discusses if only straight species be considered for planting within any of resource are that's that's it for my comments so Joe was a portion um of the site in the Char River outstanding Water Resource area don't believe so um let me see double check my note here proba read that in your [Music] the extreme Southwest Southwest okay yeah the extreme Southwest portion of the Hopkins school parcel is within a mass uh GIS map outstanding resource water as it lies within the public water supply Watershed of Echo Lake and the Charles's River but there's no development on that part of the site correct it's probably down here yeah yeah okay good um so just to clarify on the Alternatives analysis you know if we can just get maybe a little bit more detailed you know Narrative of some of the different options you look at we're not asking you to go to the drawing board and you know re-evaluate things um you know if we can just kind of provide a little bit more robust of a narrative that would be helpful you maybe be a few paragraphs uh the project sequencing and phasing plan I thought needed to be um you know that's something that we're going to want to look at and we'd like to see those as you know fairly detailed um that doesn't have to be addressed at this point I don't think but um just so that you know that is something that the commission looks for and then again the pibs and the stockpile locations need to be identified um those were the comments I had Kim did you want to go through any of the D comments on the phosphorus uh yeah so I just I guess wanted to point out that D did have some technical comments uh mostly related to St water TSS removal credit Peak um sorry standard two peak discharge um you know if you guys could address those next my d okay or you want run open up the question engineer I could certainly address them now there there was one um it was actually a very good point and something that we're we're g to with street sweeping is counted towards a TSS removal um it does need to be done every month probably not useful so we're going to take that out and um we still meet the 90% TSS removal um we'll take another look at the the overall uh detention uh we are meeting it for for the overall site um we'll make sure we go through each point of analysis and um make sure it's meeting in accordance with d and other one was infiltration separation from ground water yes right so we do have um we've done and actually I didn't mention this during um U my presentation we we did do on-site soil testing um we found um various uh groundwater elev Elations um the best if you could yep perfect so the orange are the depole test pits that we did um further south and right around the Geo um thermal Wells we found some higher Ledge in that area so that made us move everything to um lower areas and and a little bit closer to the um uh to the riverfront area I'm still staying out of that the Northwest test pit was one of the better ones that we found with a separation of groundwater so we are within that um I guess that four foot separation of groundwater we are meeting the two- foot separation will include a groundwater modeling analysis for the next sub midle as it relates to separation from groundwater were there any test bits actually done in the footprint of the infiltration Basin there there weren't because we're moving it around um we fully expect the one in the Northwest is at the same elevation um as you move across to the Eastern portion i b the ones to the east of the infiltration Basin was that similar separation or similar depth to groundw it was it was similar depth um but it was at a higher elevation so um the overall net or Delta between the two is about the same yep so you guys did an analysis to basically draw the line from test bit to test bit to understand where the groundwater cor corre footprint yep sound okay to you yeah I mean the handbook technically requires test bits to be done within the footprint of the infiltration area what happens if you run into a problem with that instruction it's it's it's a good point I mean when we were out there we were poking around to see what what did work um you know if it's something where um you know we obviously if we move it further off to the Northwest and at that point we didn't really know where the 200 foot the other riparian Zone was um so we once we started to design we wanted to make sure we were tucking it in and keeping at you know an elevation where we could drain everything to it can we put a um a pipe there as a monitoring well when we do the borings we're unrelated to this effort we're going to be doing some borings in the ledge area so that we have a better understanding of the ledge's impact on the overall addition construction so we will be on site um towards the end of next week with a boring rake so it would be fairly easy I would think to just drop a PVC pipe as a monitoring well to understand groundw in that area yeah I think that would be a great idea uh i' do a soil boring and and put the monitoring well and so soil boring will confirm the the rolls rate that you guys are using and then the monitoring will let you get a better feel for where groundw is yep it's a great idea we've done it on many sites that way and that way we could we actually have some historical data to go back and check go keep our fingers crossed so you just let me know where and how deep and uh size okay is one going to be enough they're going to be out there we can certainly do two one at each end yeah I mean two would be preferred okay they're going to be out there and it's not that big of a deal to put a second hole in the ground that would be more in line with the requirements in the handbook they don't go that deep so it's not like you have to drill down 20 30 feet yeah no we're going to have to drill break so we're just hes most of the other holes are just to identify the depth of ledge it's not trying to do geotechnical we've already done that yep and if there's a test pit to the West that's got favorable soils and favorable groundwater conditions you know if it comes back that there's poor conditions in this location you can always push the infiltration Basin West and extend the pipes but from a cost savings perspective and a you know keep the footprint nice and tight closer to the parking lot the better off it is is the elevation of the field getting raised or how how it looks is that higher it is yeah I believe it's I I believe it's a slight cut a slight cut it's it's going down a little bit lower I think it was like less less than a foot maybe nine inches it's going down and the existing um storm water inut because is there an existing storm water inut corner so yes so there a detention base in the north corner corner and the West that was done as part of the original design and construction back in late '90s so is that one comeing out or is it still there maintain no one one thing we were trying to do is maintain as much of the on-site infrastructure as possible um those detention Bas are they're still operating um still working so we wanted to you know continue to use that treatment and that storage you know for the site so we're not taking anything out um we were really focusing on the the Western portion and then the field um and and trying to contain that to just a new system and then Recon and yeah reconfiguring all the new stuff there and then the existing stuff will continue to go to the West the north basins while we're on the topic of storm water has there been any consideration about educational signs as part of this project we've got some great storm water components here you got rearfront area be a really good opportunity for school AG children at especially at Hopkins where they're at an age where they'll really start to be able to understand this stuff to incorporate some educational features yeah I think you're going to restore the area where they go and play in the woods right there build things so maybe they want to know where rain Gard a great opportunity yeah there's a rain Garden there's an infiltration underground system there's a detention Basin you've got Riv front area you've got buffer zone there's a lot of really great opportunities to just have little Packards that you know help the students understand what's out there what's on their you know school grounds and it gives teachers an opportunity to maybe do some outdoor class explain what a pib is put Theo on so they grow up put into their vocabulary did you say that the U Wells for the geothermal were already done um we have done one geothermal well as a test well to establish the um the metrics of how many Wells we would need but the um energy use of or the calculation of how many Wells overall you need to support the building so we did complete one well in that area I think it currently is like a landscape box on top of it um the remainder of the wells would be done as part of the construction how many Wells do we believe it's 35 um so it's it's out of jurisdiction so this is yeah exactly great great opportunities here so the um they're going to need a lot of water and there's going to be a lot of slurry right they're going to make a lot of water um coming out of the ground as part of it I think uh the peak throw the peak flow was something like 30 gallons when they were doing it um they did have a tank on site to manage that yeah we we'll have Frack tanks on site to manage all that okay so yeah I mean understanding kind of what's going to happen with all that water and where the water to support the drilling is going to come from um we just don't want to avoid I know you guys would do this but want to avoid a hose going in the river getting pumped soed shockingly contractors do these kinds of things sometimes I've seen J we'll have we have PRACK tanks have it set up and you guys Sur come monitor it and check it out the commission comments or questions questions or comments from the audience that was a great presentation you know a lot of information to digest but looks like a great project and you know looks like you guys did a lot of upfront work on us so we appreciate it great I just had one question for you um with the pibs is there a preference from the commission on what we would work with at the school like this I don't know if Boulders would be appropriate for the kids whether they' want to play on them or not or we want to keep them from hurting themselves do you prefer the placards we did at the marathon school I think we we have a lot of them that we just put on posts you know plers all through the through the area so so we are going to have we should have consume they're being manufactured the placards to provide um and then in terms of what to fix them to the commission has been flexible traditionally and and you know how you want to do that if you have some mature trees if you have some placards okay yeah we've done them a couple different ways I think mostly I put them on sign posts essentially in the ground at Marathon school but okay we can talk it through and we'll put it on the plan so it's clear where they should be going awesome great all right thank you folks thank you have a good get your sheet oh yeah uh if I get a motion to continue to um so our next meeting is uh April 30th does that give you enough time uh yeah let's continue to April 30th if we need some more time we'll ask for another continuance okay meeting after that May 21st so um okay so if we can continue I get a motion to continue to April 30th please a second second all in favor I thank you thank you nice job thank you okay so moving along on the agenda so Jeff you're complaining about your school the fifth grade I went to school and was three story woodframe building the sixth grade was a twostory wood frame building I know with we're dating ourselves there okay um so the next hearing is Logan 30 Lakes sha drive this is a notice of intent for uh single family home improvements site improvements Hopkins and Conservation Commission will hold a public hearing on Tuesday April 9th 2024 at 7:00 at the hooping Senior Center 28 mayew Street here old person's interest and notice of inent filed by uh Ralph Logan to perform site improvements location is 36 late short drive good evening good evening sorry about your boil makers yeah that was a tough loss last night which is why I had the dark well thank you uh my name is Drew Logan I'm at Lake Drive along with my wife Tracy back in the back of the room here and I think uh most of you probably know Mr maradon and I also have my landscape partner here from from interiew Ryan dwol um maybe I'll just kind of kick it off with a really high level overview of the proposal and and and Dave can get into some of the details but there's essentially two elements to um a proposal uh the first is if you direct your eyes to the north side of the home you can see there's a a a driveway that extends from Lakeshore Drive on the East all the way down down to the lake serving as a boat ramp and that slopes uh you know pretty good down towards the lake um that um driveway and boat ramp I estimate is probably about 40 years old so it's just starting to fail there's uh there's elements down towards the lake um that are raised cracks in fact my niece broke her toe on it last summer so she'd be really happy if I if I fix this so it needs to be fixed um but in addition to just uh just replacing it um I actually think we can improve it you'll see about the last 50 ft uh going nearest to the lake rather than um replacing that with concrete as it is today I would like to propose we put um two 24 in strips of cobblestone on each side of what is now the driveway and then fill in the six feet in the Middle with a strip of grass um that will not only beautify the property but also the rainwater runoff coming from the lake is pretty extensive right now I think would really improve the the runoff into the lake so that's kind of element one of uh of the proposal um the second involves uh the south side of the house um there are currently three existing Stone patios uh that are at three different levels so it's Terrace to the lake um again the the house was um uh well it was 1940 um home and then it was built up in n in the late 80s so those patios at least the two um closest to the lake are likely the same age as that driveway probably 40 40 years old and so this proposal would be to put a new uh retaining wall in uh nearest the lake which would actually bring the three Terraces to two and what that will give uh give me is is a much more usable area those um two areas close to the lake are pretty small um there was an old shed that was falling down that we've uh you know recently removed and so it's really just again to to build over the existing patios going from three Terraces uh to two that's that's the extent of my of my over pretty complete so we have a wetland uh BBW on the North side uh Flags through6 uh going from right there along there to there all the way to our bridge and then we have a series of retainer walls along the lake uh that are acting as Bank um so we have a series of other patios fire pits stairways can walls um so as Druid mentioned uh uh we're replacing the old concrete with uh Tous concrete um the driveway will be slightly uh the the boat ramp will be slightly narrower than what's there now um and the new retaining walls done on uh the patios is uh retaining walls on three sides uh up to the same level as the existing patio uh closest to Lake sh drive all right and you know part of the work has started um I guess there was a misunderstanding you know and you thought that you didn't have to file because it was you know a certain distance away from the commission member so part of this isn't after the fact um but you know it happens a lot with folks in the lake so it's not a big deal we're just happy that it you know you brought it forward to us and uh we can get it permitted so thank you that's correct yep the patio portion nothing's been done with the um okay so I will Joe did you have comments that you want to go through few comments um take atation I thought the flags one through six had no issues with those they all look accurate as I just noted the retaining wall along the lake functions as Bank um that is not labeled on the plan as far as I can tell I would recommend that that be labeled on the plan it also appeared that the bumper Zone um from Bank was uh drawn from the back side of the bank it looked like and not the front side it mean it's only a couple foot difference but um that you probably be revised if that's the case just to be accurate uh the proposal uh described erosion control barrier consisting of Sil fence and a l uh currently there only just a w so still should be added just to keeping with OS uh also the uh lake has a Zone a flood zone the past in the projects that we've had on the lake U we've requested that the Zone a be indicated graphically graphically on the plan um typically it uh Falls within within the lake away from the bank um but we' recommend that be added the uh plans do not Al do o do not show the no disturb zone or the locations of any pibs uh we recommend that that be added also a uh narrative Des the sequencing U would be useful especially with to removing exting concrete if's any required any locations of stock pile with the just a a general note adding a scale to the plan is all is helpful um just been trying to get measurements off the site plan uh and then as again with other projects on the lake uh there's an existing uh boat ramp uh and and the seaw wall or the retaining wall which would be subject to a chapter 91 license not aware of any uh status of a chapter 91 license but as in the past we would request that the applicant provide information on if there is a current cheap 91 license or one will be applied for and other than that I didn't really have any any other issues with the with the pilot jump in yep um was your Wetland probe that you did near flag six yes uh we we located the probe it's uh 3 ft off that existing retainer wall we called that the flag number 5A so we have a new Wetland elimation from one through okay I see a flag there y excuse me y y I did I did Overlook that to delineation Flags one through C for fine I did see Hydro soil uh upgradient of the uh the retaining wall along the lake and it was very um from roughly a foot to roughly 4T Off the Wall um so just yeah yeah we don't have a problem with it it doesn't change the buffone uh line as well based on that line because of all the other angles of of the coming off exactly coming you can see that yeah so I think it might it might influence that applies to the entire uh retaining wall along the lake y so it might bump the buffer zone up uh on the south portion the uh yeah yeah the the the the 50 Foot buffer zone goes slightly towards the lake and we did a calculation that based on all the different angles of the of using uh the new labeled bank is the face of the retainer wall on the water side of the retainer wall it only affects minimally the uh buffer zone by about four square fet okay um so then we've added flag number five uh We've labeled the plan as as as Bank um and uh we also have done the uh uh research the 100e flood the flood zone and you're right it does fall in the water um we took it a step further and have determined the height uh the height of the water based on the dam and it falls to uh right at the footing on the Northern edge of that retainer wall it's right at the uh interface of that footing face of the retaining wall so everything is lining up uh quite nicely um that 15inch Oak um that 28 in Oak and the 24in oak now has a medallion uh on the tree uh we have no trees going further east towards uh Lakes Shore Drive uh behind the shed um and then we have that big bush uh at the corner of the shed but there's no other trees between the shed and uh Lakeshore Drive so we didn't put any medallions currently uh in that location I'm sorry so this one this one and this or nope the One uh down by the bridge the 15inch oak okay right there yep is that Brook like continuously running or is it intermittent continuous M yeah yeah there's a storm storm drain that comes up right at the top yeah the town drains into it and then it's an old s that goes from Southeast all the way to the catch Bas through the catch Bas through the they [Music] see yeah Drew's lot right there in yellow you can see that Swale that's feeding yeah so Drew ons just on the other side of the book that's from the 20s say that's the original that is crazy it's really cool to see I have I mean you can set like a tent up on each of those Parcels that's about some of them are 25 okay questions comments from commission members questions or comments from the audience quick question uh in terms of I think it's great that you're doing the Cobble with the lawn in the middle I think that's a a great upgrade in terms of where it begins and ends uh can you help me understand the decision making around that and you it would be great to have a detail show on what that cross-section looks like yeah for sure um actually if you go to one of the pictures Kim you might I might show it's really um where they they're pretty big concrete slabs right now and there's a natural uh break uh where the slope really starts to go um you know towards the lake yeah um about where that jet ski is there if you can see it yeah see that right there it's either that slab I think that's the slab right there yep there's a staircase there the stairs down and stairs in and then the idea is to put it right below on the water side of the prop uh propane tank that's where the division is so give plenty of parking but then um really kind of in the backyard make that a lot more pleas to yeah my only request would be just to a cross-section of what that Cobble looks like just to help us understand the stability of it like the underlayment of the Cobble Stone what you mean yeah what the size of the stone is what the what the uh you know the depth of it is if there's any subbase to it given it given the slap going down to the lake you know you don't want the Cobblestone all washing out down into the lake yeah yeah yeah for sure without sailing ships empty where do we get cobblestone these states I don't know if it's going to be Cobblestone I haven't gotten that far actually po yeah chair so this seems so south of the existing concrete ramp this seems to be a lot of pavers right up to the edge of the lake so I didn't know if somewhere maybe north of the existing concrete ramp along the edge of the lake we could maybe get some shrubs or like filtering prior to water flowing into the lake sort of what we've been doing on some other sites around the lake so north of the existing sorry see shrubber on the on the right d oh there yeah yeah yeah because it seems like on the other side of that that ramp on the South Side there's a lot of just papers that go right up to the edge of the lake so I didn't know if maybe we could get so like little a little buffer strip of of Shrubbery to that portion is pretty flat um and the actual seaw wall is above the grass so there's not really any drainage into the lake there it's a it's a very flat area on that North Side um so I understand your your request but I'm not sure it would it would accomplish a whole lot in terms of drainage and runoff if that's so if that's the intent of the question or the comment who the chair yes I did notice that the roof run off I noticed this when I was on site kind of pipes down and then comes straight down this ramp M um and into the lake so I know that obviously we're going to replace some of this with favers I just didn't know if that might be an area where we could do Improvement instead like if you had an opportunity for a dry well or if you turn this around and we could have a little planting area um just something to capture that c that seems easy yeah um so that you know we keep the clean run off clean and slow it down on its way the lake do you have do you have room but at the down spout where that retainer wall is there in the tree could you take it across the street across the driveway into the right side we could just I mean when when we tear the driveway up yes figure something out I mean about a drain what about a rain bucket or something is that another option something this sure I'll put it in the middle of the I mean if you can make it kind of go off to the right there Drew if that's easier for you um you know we don't want you to undertake a massive you know engineering project here you know and running across the driveway but you know the intent is just to prevent it from running down the the new driveway into the lake during the lake yeah and I'm sure we can come up with something that would be satisfactory yeah exuse me okay we we still don't have a d number as of 5:00 yeah okay and we have a couple T's that need to be cross and eyes dotted so all right okay any other questions or comments so if I get a motion to continue this to our next meeting which is the 30th and a second please all in favor I opposed all right thank you gentlemen thank very much you're welcome okay continue here earings uh let's see D'Angelo 12 Maple Street extension this is an abbreviated notice of resource area at delineation oh sorry to collect I can handle getting up sorry I I gave good evening good evening folks my name is Chris froli I'm a wetland scientist with daughtered Consulting uh we're here tonight talking about 12 Maple Street extension it's just an anrad and thankfully it was pretty straight forward um Joe and I were out there together about two weeks ago to walk the line we took I don't know dozens if not hundreds of soils um so the gist of it is I will wait for a site plan up here yeah it is so shown in Blue on this marked up version of the site plan we have about 518 linear feet of BBW boundary and the green shows about 356 linear feet of Inland Bank um you know those are kind of areas where the water channelizes and forms somewhat of a intermittent stream channel so we thought those were more appropriately characterized as as in Bank uh we do also have you'll see in the northeast corner shown in red a covert that goes under Maple Street extension there uh that drains the eastern most portion of BBW off along um you know I've only seen it dry but what looks more so like an intermittent stream channel at the north of the property boundary there um all in all Joe and I didn't change any Flags uh it was you know I don't think we had really any disagreements we took many many soils we found a couple of pockets that looked like they might show some uh hydric soil indicators But ultimately nothing conclusive enough to to move any Flags or identify any any additional areas that would qualify as a wetland um so in general I think we're pretty much in agreement on the location of flags as they're shown here uh there was only one comment issued by DP and it was just that the commission should verify the flags in the field um so I think that that pretty much sums up what we have here all in all pretty straightforward mostly encircled by resource area here all right thank you Jody you concur I do concur um one thing I want to mention that there was um southwest corner the start a large pile of brush uh at the edge of the Wetland probably partially in the Wetland there um and if you go back and look at some of the aial photos going back a few years uh that there you go you can see the area which looks like it was um recently cleared along the western property line it was just thought that the applicant might uh describe what happened there since it's right along more or less the absolutely so I did check in with the applicant on that um they've only owned the property for a couple of years he said that the property is pretty much exactly as it is when they purchase the property he's more than amendable to cleaning up that brush pile and and getting the area restored so maybe that's something we can talk about beyond the scope of this anrad but um I don't think that really Bears to this anrad proceeding but we're happy to work with you on that no that makes sense want a clarification on what you know what went on there whether it was recent or yeah I think it seems like it's been at least four years or so from the area three four years um so you know not the current property owner is doing but you know he's happy to work with you and get it okay get it straightened out looking into it yeah absolutely right questions or comments from the audience or from the commission excuse me from the audience all right if I get a motion to close and approve the abbreviated no notice of resource area delineation for 12 Maple Street extension all moved and the second please second all in favor I opposed yes we have a three we jump could you offer us yep and a motion have Kim sign on behalf of the me members present sove second all in favor posos all right are you new with scard uh just over a year okay yeah I haven't been in front of you guys yet but sure this won't be the last thank you folks have a good night good night this particular okay moving along Wall Street development 12 North Mill Street this is an abbreviated notice of resource area delineation good evening Mr pety hello there thank you for your patience oh I'm kidding though I enjoy it so uh I understand that um this has been continued uh this process has been going on since November and I decided to come out and see what's going on here because um so we did apparently submit a revised plan um and so the commission has had that plan and U I see no problems with what we've put in front of the board um I'm just I'm more concerned about the um amount of peer review that's been ongoing on this projects on this application and uh just seems a little bit exensive so maybe I can provide a little bit of clarification um you know when we first uh reviewed what goded Consulting had provided to the commission you know there was some pretty signifant pretty significant deviations from where the buffer zone was in the Wetland delineation um that uh I don't know if it was Nicole that was on site that did it but someone from G did as compared to what you know Joe was seeing in the field so you know that had to be kind of remedied um in adjusted and secondarily um there was an intermittent stream on site that was not included um in the original delineation understand I I listened to you I watched the video of the last meeting and stuff my problem is that in this memo that's dated November 8th peer reviewer says um Le evaluated the subject site and found no additional Wetland resource area subject to jurisdiction on the site so I understand you had your question about this intimate but why am I paying for something that your peer reviewer should have indicates on the first time he was on the site that there were no more resource areas under jurisdiction why am I responsible for that those Services that's my point we went out there and we did it we did the work we submitted the plan this has been going on three or four meetings um I don't think it's appropriate this is not like a Cod blanch slush fund that the pay reviewer goes out there and then people continue to bring up other issues and they we go we paid our fees according to your regulations we're not opposed to paying we're not opposed to paying for reasonable services that the commission requires but we're not going to pay for things that are duplicative or should have been handled on the first site visit so that's the reason I'm here tonight why we want to close the hearing and let's move on but I'm I'm not going to be paying for services that should have been handled on the first site visit that's my position chair yes can I can just yeah can you provide speak to this a bit that'd be helpful I'm just reading through the document here that Mr P go ahead um so first of all the um town of hington General biolog chapter 206 vience protection which is the F that um the Conservation Commission operates under establishes the conservation commission's ability to require an applicant pay a filing and or consultant fee for the reasonable cost and expenses formed by the commission and its consideration of the application and that goes on to say a minimum consultant fee is paid at the time of the application submitt additional amounts are collected as needed during the course of the review um the second thing I would point out is that the peer reviewer has reviewed the intermittent stream that was added to the plan that was identified so there shouldn't have been there is well there wasn't a duplicative review I was the one who pointed out to the commission that there was an interior intern stream which I identified when I accompanied uh the peer reviewer and and your consultant on the sidewalk can I speak Mr chairman yes so I understand you brought it up but but my point is is again we have the peer reviewer go out with our people review the site and he says there are no more resource areas on the site subject to jurisdiction now I'm happy you found this intermittent stream we located it and whatever but it's not my responsibility to pay for somebody to go back out to the site plain and simple no I I it's not a reasonable that I would not to be a reasonable yes I I agree with you so if it was an oversight on our part during that initial inspection and we missed it then I agree we shouldn't be charging uh we shouldn't be charging you to go back out um well I also think it's probably something that the initial your consultant should have picked up but in the field as well so not only that but the intermittent stream is within the bvw at the last meeting as the way I heard it was your peer reviewer was okay with the delineation of the resource area what happens unless that intermittent stream was a perennial stream it has no bearing on anything else within the Wetland within the resource area it's completely irrelevant we shouldn't have even had to go out there and locate it we did but it has no relevance to what your jurisdiction is with regard to the delineated Wetland I mean if I'm wrong tell me but if it was perennial different story but it's not perennial it's intermittent and so it's inside the Wetland area so therefore there's no additional jurisdiction from the commission so okay and that being said Mr chairman I'm not opposed to paying some additional because he did go out there again and do but I'm just saying it's 12 it's no $1600 $1,600 and I've already paid does that net out my 480 or no was that6 balanced you was 1,170 which includes your $480 deposit okay so it's net of the 480 yeah okay so so that's so that's still outstanding right so what I'm and I'd like to just connect with Kim um so we can kind of talk through this before the next meeting um because I tend to agree with you you know I don't think we should need we're not opposed to paying for peer review but if if you go out there on the site but this is what we've already been out there reviewing right so I do want to point out that the peer review total invoices to date do not include analysis of that stream right yeah so what's due currently is current based on the work that they've already done I ordered them pencils down on February 14th I I understand you could have stopped work on it for some reason but as I said whether the end the the intermittent stream has no bearing it doesn't need to be you're repeating yourself right I understand all you know okay you're all the understand so that's all I you know if you come up with a reasonable amount I'm happy happy to pay some additional dollars yes so I think the balance uh as Kim says is is still do because that doesn't include going back out to the site the confirm the well here are the invoices right here Jeff I mean I'm not saying I mean he's well I can't look at him right now but okay but I'll continue we'll continue to the next meeting and himim and I will connect how about if we close the hearing and we just we're not going to close the hearing okay there's no reason for me to come back I mean you guys can well yeah you don't need to come back um the next meeting is a zoom meeting anyways so okay well we can we can talk about it and let you know you don't have to come before another me fair fair enough fair enough but I I I hope you can appreciate the you know I didn't come here because you know $500 is important to me yeah okay one the me too so I don't mind sitting here to express my concern no I appreciate appreciate you coming to the meeting Mr y I miss you I understand I miss everything about this thank you for your patience and we'll figure it out we got about those certificate of compliances too oh yeah yeah we just got to get the full application we need to negotiate on that thank you the fees are not negotiable bye bye motion to continue um yes if I can get a motion to continue this to the uh April 30th meeting please second second all in favor I I and opposed okay all right yes the fees are non-negotiable but I do I do think that you know if it was an oversight on our part perhaps you shouldn't have to pay for us to go back out and do another site inspection yeah we can talk about that I haven't been on this site but looking in this drawing it's like everything is wet do I misread the draw you do not it's practically flooded I live right next to it oh Mr chairman are you uh opening to comments uh yes sir yeah who home Grand I live across the the street from that uh property 9 North Mill Street and you're right it's wet if you go down there today you will need boots it's almost always wet it may be an intermittent stream as it was referred to but it's been running continuously for almost a year now there are some months and some years where it will dry up but just uh a couple of months ago we had a 3in and then a 4in rainstorm and uh there's an 18inch corated metal pipe under North Mill Street it was running almost 2/3 full a lot of water it's my understanding that the Watershed there is about 50 acres that goes through there there's Upstream ponds there's a big one uh on the adjacent Street there Pine Tree Lane and then there are at least a couple of Downstream ponds just off that property and in the next lot over I know because uh I haven't been over there in 40 years but my neighbor uh took my dog out of that pond years ago it's it's that deep so that site is is wet and yeah so just to clarify this part of the um you know the resource area delineation is all we're doing is verifying the resources that are on the site no I understand that I we're not saying that it's developable are not available at this point you know the next step would be for the applicant if they wanted to propose something U to design it and then come before the commission and you know understood but I I just want to make the point that it's it's very wet I think the uh what's there now is a better reflection of what was what is actually there in terms of wet lands and I do know that the folks who came this a second time around actually increased the size of the area of the Wetland it's more than it's a big site but it's more than 70 or excuse me more than 50% Wetlands on on this drawing here yep and uh we're here because uh we're on we're on record as having the abuts have had signed a a letter to the commission before and it's a nice site it's very beautiful but it's also a problem for at least some of us who habitually have water uh basements and if that site floods out our basements get flooded as well uh it's it's a serious issue there that that uh that's the last piece of property that was a farm years ago they cut it up into 10 pieces and that's the only one left uh we appreciate you coming in and letting us know so that's helpful well and again I realize what you're trying to accomplish here in terms of looking at what's there but uh that so-called intermittent stream is more than intermittent when it's so you get some serious water going yep Mr chairman may I speak yeah you may uh my name is Harry good friend I live at three Pine Tree Lane uh right just off of that site um and when it is wet as it is now the water will actually come up Pine Tree Lane uh and give me problems and I'm at the dead end at the culdesac at the other adjacent to Mr hoods property so I I see it visually and I have it in the basement and uh it it's a problem and I think anything that might disturb that and create more water is going to be a big Pro bigger problem yeah you can see that stream now if you just drive by it's there okay thank you you're welcome y thank you for coming in all right Kim anything else that does it can we get a motion to adjourn to Second all in favor all right Ted you were very quiet tonight