##VIDEO ID:Y## for through the chair you're live on hcam TV thank you uh Rob is not here today so I will be sharing checking to see who is here do not see a quorum yet so give people few more minutes for I believe we have a quorum now but I believe we are missing still uh Michael Parker and is Vic off camera is he not on uh yes I've joined it's it shows as VV I was just trying to I'm driving actually so you know I might have take sometime to mute and unmute myself no wasn't sure if that was you or somebody else um it was me not sure why it says VV on name yeah that's awesome okay so uh I think it's just Michael and Parker that we're missing um John we're expecting them as far as you know right yes I've only heard from Rob okay uh it's only one after um we'll give them another couple minutes just in case there's any technical issues and Parker just joined I give Michael another till 7:04 on my clock for that just waiting another 20 seconds or so um and then we'll get started all right we've got 704 uh Rob is not here today so I will be chairing the meeting uh I will begin with the remote meeting script uh John feel free to interrupt me if I miss something out of this uh pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2023 this meeting will be conducted via remote means in accordance with applicable law the means uh this means that members of the public body as well as members of the public May access this meeting via virtual means participants May access this meeting through the remote meeting link as posted on the meeting agenda and through the town's online calendar when required by law or Allowed by the chair persons wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in the meeting May do so by raising their hands or otherwise signaling their intents to speak this meeting will be recorded please take care to mute your microphone unless you've been recognized by the chair we will now confirm attendance of members please respond with present if you are on this call uh members of the planning board uh Robert vincon is not here uh Elis M MOSI here uh Lucia Lopez present Michael King present uh Parker hatp present Jane Moran present Karen Wills present viith pry present and Matthew Rona myself is present uh staff John guch present and Lori s johon Pres okay uh let me move that out of the way we'll start with administrative items um my go uh first item up we've got is NBA uh NBTA communities discussion continuing um if this goes longer than 30 minutes my plan is to move B and C to the uh the form K and the minutes to the end of the meeting um otherwise we just continue on um with those uh Zach met last week um to discuss this uh Sean do you want to kind of start with a summary of that or are you not ready yet for any feedback from that sorry was that to me yeah oh sorry I was doing something else can you repeat that I was yeah so I was just saying that that the zoning advisory committee met last week to discuss uh some of the directions that we had given them um they had looked at the uh apartments in Legacy as well as the uh the Windsor apartments and um I really appreciate how in-depth they went into uh for uh I don't know how long was an hour and a half plus um including looking at some of the old Maps they had uh they had looked at during the first round I was wondering if uh there was any update that you want to provide from that or just that they're still digging into some of the information yeah still digging into some of the information um spoke to Town Council and talked to Zach about it but wood View at hopk at um Hopkinson which is Legacy Farms would not be eligible for a variety of reasons uh the main thing being it's built under the master plan special permit and you wouldn't be able to take it out we wouldn't be able to take that parcel out of the development without a whole series of things so um we were pretty confident uh inter internally that if we were to include that the state would reject that as an eligible parcel um still a little bit of Investigation needed for if whether Windsor would be eligible there was a host Community agreement with that development for I think Water and Sewer or at least for water um some utilities and so they want us to look into that but then they identified some other Parcels to investigate in place of those two one of them being Indian Brook condos another one being Walcott Valley condos so the next meeting I believe it's looking like it's going to be on August 26th uh it might be August 12th but um it looks like most of the Zach members are able to make the August 26 meeting so we'll probably schedule it then which is when we're going to really look at these newer new Parcels that they suggested and try and hopefully line up something that they can bring to the planning board as an alternative option thanks John um so I I think we've reserved this spot uh for public feedback as well as ongoing planning board discussions I'm going to start by asking if anybody on the planning board has has any thoughts on what John just said or or has they've been thinking about this over the past couple weeks anything else they want to add to the discussion before we open up to the public uh Lucia um yeah so I watched the Zach meeting sorry if my voice I'm getting over a cold um and one of the things that I found interesting was the number of parcels that they have considered and all of the reasons why those Parcels have been rejected and um I had the thought that maybe that would be a slide or something to prepare for if we go to special town meeting just to give people an idea of the different things that have been the different areas in town that have been considered and the various reasons for which those Parcels were not chosen versus whatever Parcels do end up being chosen thank you I think that's a a really good good idea that we should keep in mind as we prepare um any other feedback from the board uh the only other thing I would add Matt is uh they were uh potentially looking for guidance from the planning board if we had any additional input so um I think that was like brought up a few meetings ago where we were less prescriptive with what our were so if there are additional like Parcels that we want them to look at I think now would be the time to suggest any others I don't know John if you disagree with like that sentiment but that's you know another key point that I you know pulled out of the meeting too John any yeah no yeah I think Parker's right uh anybody else have any comments anybody else uh either about what Zach had investigated uh been looking at or anything we should be considering as we think about presenting again at special town meeting uh likely in December I just I just had one thought I know a few years ago when we were discussing the solar panel bylaw or the solar array bylaw we ended up as a planning board suggesting um to present the first plan that we um wanted to present and failed and then the second one that ultimately passed so that might be an option because I felt that the last planning board meeting there were quite a few members who felt that the first map that we worked on and failed at the last h meeting was actually a pretty good one so there might be a way to pull that thought process into it as well so are you suggesting um two articles at town meeting the first one fails then you have then you can jump to the second one and during this whole conversation you can we could just help the folks the citizens understand how important it is that we have to pass something through the chair we've we've broached that subject with Town Council uh and just trying to figure out a way to go about that I think Town Council actually said they may think it's cleaner to do both options as one article uh but we're still working through all those details and how to go about it so if we were to do that it would have uh I guess we'll wait to see what Town Council says before asking hypotheticals yeah it would depend it would be a lot of language things you know depending on what the motion is is what would then pass in the article and yeah not worth getting into it in detail now until we have something to look at it's a good idea Jane thank you John for the update date on practicality that uh any other comment from the board seeing none I'll open up a comment to the public please use the raise hand feature or uh Chester wildly if you're on camera and uh follow on you I don't see any hands raised yet give a couple I'll give a minute or so and see if anybody is just having technical issues want to make sure that people have an opportunity to be heard um if anybody's any questions uh about things have been discussed in the past meetings or just questions about the MBTA Community by laws in general now is a good time okay any last comments from the board as I see no hands raised I was gonna say one other thing Matt uh which is I've uh been doing additional research and um reached out to representatives from the state some other you know fuel in our fire uh for why we can you know compel uh a positive vote at town meeting is the state has opened up a $15 million uh fund that will help support Pro capital projects in um NTA Community zones and uh just sharing my screen really quick oh I can't share it well I I uh one of the big things that I I think that we need to be conscious of is um is is The Preserve obviously and um I was doing can I can I sh it says I still can't share um I was doing research about their posos issue if anybody isn't aware of what posos are it is a contamination in water um as a result of what are called Forever chemicals so there's firms like uh Dupont or 3M or Wolverine uh chemical that have been held liable um for billions of dollars and these funds are available to communities to be able to input water um mitigation efforts to uh cleanse uh sources of water of pasas and if you look at The Preserve according to the um updated uh EPA recommendations for what is a recommended um parts per trillion of posos um The Preserve exceeds the uh recommended amount um based on the new guidelines that were updated by the EPA this year and so I think you know it should be noted for folks in that community that if for example the Carbones property were developed and water was brought down that there could be an opportunity for them to benefit from you know this proposal and to uh potentially have a mechanism to tap into town water and not have contaminated water with chemicals that are um known to cause harm to you so this there's some new carrots that are coming out whereas I I also learned I was wrong that this isn't an unfunded mandate that the state has put forth considerable funds to help us um bring this plan forward so um I think there's just some real positives that we can highlight about the map uh and uh yeah that's just some additional research that I'm doing to try help us all um craft a you know real positive plan for folks long term thank you Parker um I believe believe there was somebody nominated to be a liaison from the school committee um but I don't know if that person is here um I'm just wondering if anybody from the from the school board school committee has any feedback um because I know Dr Kev was looking at some of the number the uh some of the numbers and concerns they might have since that was a question that was raised I don't know if we have a member from the school committee but I also brought that up with the state and there are reports out that suggest that the single driver the single biggest driver of um School enrollment is not mixed use it is actually uh single family homes and there is a 28 2018 study that was done which if I can pull it up the statistics really sorry 2017 report that was uh released by uh the metropolitan area planning Council mapc an additional updated report and also the town of Hopkinson um released a demographic uh information and enrollment projections report in 2018 uh and all the reports highlight that existing home sales especially those of three to four bedroom single family homes births and simply housing growth of new permits of single family homes uh contribute more to uh the driving of enrollment then would be mixed use uh you know zoned Properties or anything that's like quasi commercial and residential Matt you would have highlighted this a little bit in your last or one I think it was one of the last meeting or the meeting before about how uh I think it was like a 0.2 per student uh rate bre 027 and you could expect even with a maximalist V Vision on what the plan uh would result in student enrollment would be no more than like 30 students and comparable to Legacy Farms for example and according to WGBH that did a report on the Legacy farm development back in uh I think it was 2021 they had said that there were more than 350 students that resulted from those single family uh developments so 27 350 I understand the town is looking to avoid growth and uh we don't want to see taxes in increase but um it's a good plan that we have and according to this data and the statistics uh there's a lot of upside um so just for whatever that's worth but maybe somebody fromaz on from the school committee has additional information or details yeah I think they're still looking for the updated numbers just to make sure that uh there hasn't been any significant changes although I think the numbers I have was 0.2 per uh so 02 per per house so came out to about 24 to 30 as he said in the if were the carbonis were fully developed based on some big broad numbers um okay last call for any feedback or we'll move on to oh uh I see somebody raising a finger I can't uh m m mdow yep uh was address in name please yeah Roy mcdal based on development would you be interested in to developers perspective on this uh yeah we'll we'll listen we'll listen to a developer uh perspective um I believe the the Mandate is what sorry my speaker cut out was I'm sorry believe isn't the MBTA requirement 15 units to the AC up to uh the average density has to be 15 units per acre I believe yes yeah well just to kind of put it from a mathematical point of view looking at it from the developer point of view a piece of land per 15 units per acre couple of years ago when the market was better was about 50,000 unit right now it's 40 so let's call it 50 50 time 15 that's $750,000 an acre which would the development piece of land would be worth fully permitted for apartments so why wouldn't you consider looking in a fairly dense populated area I don't know if Legacy itself would be an example but the reality is if if you've got a $750,000 home on a half an acre or even a quarter of an acre even a whole acre it would make no economic sense to try and put together multiple Parcels of multiple homes to try and develop Apartments you could put the overlay zoning on that area but it'll never happen so that might resolve the town's issue at the same time not worry about it actually happening thank you the financial aspect of that is helpful for us to keep in mind economic aspect uh any other feedback from anybody uh in thebody in the public nobody else from the board all right if not we'll move over to the uh Form K uh Sean do you want to just give The quick summary sure sorry it sound like you said Sean I know you're saying John but it just throwing me off I'm hearing Sean I'm like I don't know who Sean is anyway the form k um is basically a formality at this point um Legacy Farms was developed as a subdivision partially there was roads that were constructed so uh to release the Lots excuse me to release the lots to be sold they need to be released from the subdivision agreement and so this is for the pickle ball facility that was recently approved by the planning board they want to sell the property to the person who wants to develop a pickle ball facility so they need to go through this process of releasing the lot from the subdivision so same as any other subdivision uh we would just have the planning board vote to endorse The Form K uh and there's a restricted land Covenant that goes along with it as well that's part of Legacy the whole Legacy Farms agreement uh as within the uh master plan special there's a certain amount of open space I think it's like over 500 Acres that needs to be designated as a restricted as restricted land and there's different types of restricted land um Natural State uh forget what the other ones are but this one's a natural state one so basically it's saying we're going to preserve I think it's like one point something Acres um As Natural State or uh 2.25 Acres sorry uh and substantially it's natural state so the board would need to uh endorse The Form K and sign the restricted uh land Covenant for this property and one of the things that we can do is um sorry the form K all the board members need to sign the restricted land Covenant only needs one member to sign usually it's the chair but we can also designate somebody else you can designate me you can designate Vice chair or any member that's going to be able to get to town hall fastest um and then they can sign on the on the board's behalf as long as the board makes that motion to allow for that uh any questions from the board Lucia um I did have a question about the natural state portion of that so in reading through the restricted land Covenant um like portion of that it specifies that residents of Hopkinson uh will have access on some of these lands if there are designated Trails on them only um is this is this one of those Parcels that would allow for trail access or not John I'll defer to Roy but I'm goingon to guess no because it's probably disconnected from much of the site it's typically most of the property the five it's a little of 55 Acres that's been restricted there are a significant number of trails and there are more Trails going to be going and we're working with some local groups in hopkington to add additional Trails but the reality is there may not be a trail through this piece but if someone wants to walk through it no one's going to bother them okay thank you any other questions or comments from the board uh I think John would be the quickest person to get the town hall to sign this do we have anybody see a problem with John being the named person authorized to sign the restricted land Covenant nope all right just to clarify it's just for the restricted land covenant not for the form K so five of you would still have to come in for the form K good reminder uh so seeing no other comments I'll entertain a motion uh to move that the planning board endorsed the form k for 124 East Main Street stre and to authorize John guch to sign the restricted land Covenant for this property on its behalf so moved all right and since we're remote um let me see if I can pull up the list of everybody's names make sure I don't miss anyone um uh Elise how do you vote Yes uh Lucia yes Michael yes Parker yes Jane yes Karen yes Vic think guess so still here can't scroll all the way down uh looks like he just is rejoining uh give him a second yes sorry okay that was a yes um and Matthew vonka is also a yes uh so that passes unanimously next uh thank thank you very much no worries uh next we have the minutes uh we're still under our 30 minute window um any suggestions or edits for the minutes from July 15th I thought they looked fine um I did have yep Parker yeah no go ahead my name's misspelled uh it says Parker happy I am happy but uh that's just there's a couple typos okay so um we'll assume that we can generally say that we want to have Parker's name fixed that's shouldn't be a problem right John um I had two other changes that I want to propose uh if there were no objections from the rest of the board um one was uh I think they're both on page three um one was under the section of uh Robert Corner had asked for clarification on the affordable housing requirements and it just says Mr binon responded um I was I would like to amend that amend that to include the substance of his response uh to the effect of uh amending that it was below the threshold requiring an affordable unit anybody see an objection to that I've lost my zoom window somehow how does this improve the context just to clarify I'm not sure I understand the edit uh so it it mentions that Rob responded but it didn't explain what his response was um and so I just want to capture the substance of the response got it um also in that section on page three I was wanted to change uh the word questioned to inquired about in the two instances the first two instances that it appears um I thought that was more specific that we were inquiring about aspects rather than questioning the aspects uh alternate meanings of questions any objections to any of that no okay uh does the staff have any questions about the proposed changes before we vote on amends I don't have any oh sorry got hand up I was just gonna say Vic's last name is also misspelled it says pretty pretty and happy that's the board yeah thank you Salia I was just going through that um through the chair just since we're you recognized us as step just want to throw this out there again not that this happened right now but um the minutes are a not supposed to be a transcript of the meeting they're just supposed to be a general accounting of what happened and for anyone making edits again no one did this today but I'm just throwing it out there um it's not what you wanted to have said it's what you said we've had that problem in the past and so uh it's kind of tough to tell people that so I'm just going to tell you up front the minutes are what happened at the meeting not what you would like to have said if you had a better way of say so uh it's a good good comment John um if you think that we we were incorrect please do nope I would I would say something if if I did but uh Lori and I had talked about it last week so I I promised her I would mention it okay excellent thank you for for making that comment in that case I will entertain a motion to approve the minutes as uh with the am ended uh comments amend amendments so moved second uh which case I'll go through a a roll call vote um Elise yes Jane yes sorry I went out of order uh Lucia yes Michael Yes Parker yes Karen yes Vic yes and Matthew vonco myself yes uh moving [Music] on uh so we all right for uh continued hearing we don't need to reopen right John correct that's correct all right so moving on to 24 Chestnut uh um I don't believe we've got a consultant report file yet um John do you want to start with uh any if there's any updates on our side and we move over to the applicant for any updates on their side sure so no updates on the town side uh we are waiting on the review from the peview consultant they are working through the stuff now and they hope to have something by the you know couple days this week um I believe the board was looking to schedule the site walk at the last meeting and we postponed it until this meeting so that's something the board might want to do but otherwise I don't have any other updates okay um does the applicant I see Rick came off uh came onto the camera have any updates or we can talk about uh when a s sidewalk might make sense um no particular updates I guess the only thing from our end is we did prepare a a quick graphic that showed as the board may recall the conversation came up about whether these houses were going to be connected to sewer versus septic or some of them were we did prepare a graphic that showed the difference in um land disturbance and clearing that would take place with septic and submitted that to the DPW copy John um asking for their consideration in allowing sewer um so that's I don't know if that's something um John wants to share with the board at this time or at a later date other than that no updates from our end uh John do you have that handy if you just want to show it quickly since we referenced it on why don't you move on with the next thing and I will find it sure um we one of the things we wanted to do for the S sidewalk was make sure that I think one of the things we wanted was to have the be able to review the peer report but it sounds like that's coming soon um the other thing was to have the lot lines staked out is that something that's been done or could be done uh before we schedule a site walk Rick yeah we don't have every single lot line staked out we are staking out the center of the roadway and and some of the property corners and then at weast the surveyors will do that and then from there we can um certainly uh indicate where you know lots and houses will go so um the surveyors are um I didn't confirm it I believe they were on site today supposed to be on site tomorrow so it's imminent okay um so we've got two Saturdays before the next uh next Pine boor meeting the 10th and the 17th is one of those better or worse uh for the applicant Rick um if they're roughly the same um we can go through right I I think this Saturday would be preferable but no I don't think necess very strong preference okay any so for the board any preference between the 10th or the 17th morning to do a fight walk no preference just the earlier the better with possible earlier in the day yeah like 9 8:30 how's everybody else feel uh 17th is better for me 1 I can't I can't either so I'd be happy to go with someone after they go through if they wanted to show me but yeah neither neither of those works for me all right I hear a slight preference for the 17 early on the 17th does anybody have a problem uh I tend to like 8:30 but I think that's early for a lot of people did anybody have a problem with 8:30 no okay uh Rick is 8:30 on the 17th good for you uh yes sure okay um so do 8:30 at the on the 17th and um if I recall we talked about there was an area to pull in yeah 24 okay um all right so we got the S sidewalk uh uh I think John is still looking for are you still looking for the the graphic okay you want to just put that up yep oh boy they changed the sharing option now I can't find what document it is I think this is it yeah there we go all right can everyone see that see the letter is a yeah an email there you go make it bigger yep yeah so you you can Rick y sure so on this plan so as you may recall the the Lots closer to the street Lots one and five are part of the Sewer District so um we believe that those would be allowed to connect regardless uh Lots two three and four are the ones in question this plan um you know obviously this plan is more conceptual it's not fully engineered um but shows septic systems on those lots and you know the green gives you a sense of of where the limits of clearing would be and then if we can go to the next plan you can see those limits have come in you know quite a bit on those lots without the setic systems so we we have a little bit of um as the board may recall in the um comments back from the the various Town boards the DPW um said that the sewer connections were unlikely to be approved because septic was available and the Board of Health said that septic was unlikely to be approved because sewer was available so obviously we can't accommodate both of those requests Our Hope would be to go with sewer um to limit the amount of land clearing and and um tree clearing that would need to take place and um um unless the sewer system is you know so close to capacity that these three houses will material impact it um are we we asked the DPW to give some consideration to that request provided this graphic um so far we haven't heard a response right thank you for walking us through those uh any other comments any comments from the from the board uh any uh sorry Jan yep just to um point out that I think it would be more beneficial especially to keep the trees if we can and urge the ability to tie into the septic would be possibility yeah I know some of Butters had raised concerns about some of the clearing sorry reck you had a comment it was basically the same comment I know that in the meeting and um outside of the meetings we have heard concerns from the butters to maintain as as much of the you know the trees and the buffer as possible so the sewer connections would help in that regard through the chair we wait you can go first if like Parker you wait yeah we're I believe weren't we waiting on a feedback from DPW on that front as well or is my memory totally mistaken on that I don't recall that we were winning but John do you know uh I don't were we waiting on any specific thing from them they car's comment on the on the sewer hookup and like why we weren't why they weren't going to go that route or weren't recommending it or did we already get clarification on that and I'm just totally misremembering no I don't think we got any clarification on that Sean in the end here what does this come down to the planning board in terms of which one we allow them to go with or is this really DPW if they're not if they're going to do sewer the DPW needs to make the decision that it's allowed to be connected yeah DBW is gonna have to make that decision plane board doesn't control the sewer allotment thisa do you have a question um I guess if if it's up to DPW then I think part of the argument potentially for the applicant is that 40% falls under the sewer district and that it only adds three more properties in addition to the ab Butter's concerns about removing more trees which are also valid um so hopefully that would help y we we have made that point and um as as I said so far they haven't responded but I hope that they will any other comments from the planning board before I open up to any public comments uh any comments from the public uh Bob uh yes uh John address yeah it's Robert cordner 16 Chestnut Street yeah thank you Mr chairman uh yeah no I I certainly uh maybe I'm stating the obvious but we're in a butter and uh the more green space that we can have the better and if I need to make a phone call maybe to the DPW and strongly suggest that they be sewers instead of septics uh I'd be happy to do that but just for the record thank you right thank you for the comment uh anybody else in the public don't see anybody else on camera um not seeing any other hands raised um do we need to continue anything if uh beyond the the hearing John or extend anything does not look like it because the subdivision decision is due by October 23rd so we have some time okay um and August 19th is the next meeting right so I would entertain a motion to continue this to August 19th so moved it all right um go through a roll call vote uh Elise yes Lucia yes Michael Yes Parker yes Jane yes Karen yes Vick yes and Matthew vonz yes all right so we'll continue this to the 19th thank you uh and we've got the site walk on the 17th at 8:30 has her hand up yeah sorry Bob had one more comment yes sorry Alissa had a comment um yeah uh Mr chairman yeah I just uh wanted to make sure that uh if we're able to attend that s sidewalk on oh yes 17th of of course sorry yeah I'm about the sidewalk uh it's open to the public um feel free to join us 8:30 um on August 17 um nothing substantial in terms of um deliberation is permitted amongst the board but obviously anyone in the Public's allowed to join us and walk around um see the the plot Point anything factual out that uh would be that you have concerns of and um feel free to attend the next meeting uh on the 19th uh where we discuss uh the hearing for further okay thank you and through the chair just a reminder for the planning board members not even anything substantive no no deliberation at all clarifying questions only the public can do what they want but the board this isn't a posted meeting not taking minutes so no deliberation thank you John Alysa did you have comment on that oh yes I just wanted to um know if we were able to uh attend the site walk as well yes but you already answered that um but yeah no I also I put together like um five or so slides just voicing my concerns unfortunately my laptop's about to die but um if I could at some point show you that I would really appreciate that sure I think the the next uh hearing would be a good time to to raise those um John maybe we can just remember to make sure we have safe time for some public comment in slides sure and if she can send them she can send them to me via PDF um I can put them in the shared folder so the planning board has them ahead of time and then great those to present thank you all right mov moving on I have a question yes this is about yes it's about um it's about the property itself so we live on one oh it's Bonnie skull my apologies I'm in the car too I just apologize because it keeps cutting out um we live on one Benson in the culdesac uh in between zero Benson and one and there's a small strip of land and I want to confirm just one thing the opening on Benson I don't think exceeds 15 feet and it travels along the entire property line in between both homes my question is is this about Chestnut Street or is this about it's about Chestnut but if you look at plot Number Three that little plot land goes all the way down in between the two homes out to Benson okay and I don't think yeah if you have so I definitely want to hear the the comment um we've continued the hearing to the to the 19th I I think it'd be better yeah when we have question yeah it's not a com it's just a question uh trying to understand what's on the plans what is the proposed use of that strip of land John is this something that you would be equipped to answer via email or is this something that is really just for the applicant to address I can answer it by email or the applicant can address it okay um would you be able to send John an email um asking the question it might be more expedient than trying to have the discussion right now yeah no problem all right thank you all right thank you all right uh next item on the list was a new public hearing um for 147 Hayden row right I'm the right spot on this um I will entertain a motion to open the public hearing for 147 Hayden row major project site plan and storm water management charleswood Elementary School hopkington school department so moved second all right and roll call vote um Alise yes Lucia yes Michael Yes Parker yes Jane yes Karen yes uh Vic yes and Matthew vonz yes all right um I think we usually start with the applicant giving uh a brief background right so that usually we usually do the applicant first John and then this the all right so a lot of people came off of uh or went on to video um does the applicant have somebody who would like to give us an overview of the project uh sure um man I can take that um so we have a slide presentation if we could enable for Michelle to share sure done we should be good to go so I'll just do a quick introduction I think that this project is fairly well known within the town we've been working with the elementary school building committee for um a number of years at this point to move this project forward and the planning board is our next step on that long journey um the project is 176,000 Foot Elementary School that would replace the current Elmwood School and would combine the um current fourth grade with the second and third grade that is at the Elmwood School into the new charleswood school it's located on a plot of land that is currently occupied or contiguous with the marathon school um which was built a number of years ago um I think it's well known within town the reasons behind this project that Hopkin has experienced uh really um amazing growth over the last few years and that the schools have done a lot to deal with the additional stresses of that growth this is an end of life replacement for the existing Elmwood School so the building is designed to create a new location to take those students as well as to alleviate some of the systemwide crowding that is occurring as a result of um other grades being larger than the school facilities can handle so by bringing those grades in we free up space in the middle school and also alleviate some of the pressures that the Hopkins project that this board has recently seen um has an opportunity um to correct uh with me tonight is Michelle kaserman um from samot She's the civil engineer as well as Chris Kenny from vertex who is um with us as the owner's project manager uh Dan collie is here representing the AR architect Perkins Eastman um I believe we have Ashley Cullen from trans Traverse Landscape Architects and I think we also have Clare hjj boom from LEC um the environmental consultant and Mike Santos from VHB who is the traffic engineer so I will turn it over to uh Michelle to walk you through some of the Civil site features thank you Chris uh so again then Michelle and let's see why is this [Applause] not right so so General oh there we go it is now Focus uh so site Locus uh just to orient uh Hayden row uh and the existing Marathon Elementary School the site as is currently um and then in red this is all um Town property and then this little area is uh conservation land um so the proposed layout um so again Marathon school and the driveway would come up this way and here is to Hayden row um so you can come in from either side there's a rotary uh to move around come in you have the main parking lot the school um and there are playing fields here overflow parking um and then in the rear of the building there is additional play areas um and then in between the building Wings you have um landscape features outdoor classrooms rain Gardens area um the service area is here on the south um and so this is just a general layout and if I can before you go on Michelle if I could just um one note that we didn't mention about the site Locus the currently the um the site interconnects the driveways between the existing Marathon school and 140 would create a new driveway at 147 Hayden row which is a current town-owned property that it's a single family home that is um no longer occupied and I believe may may have been condemned um that provides two accesses onto the site that would both feed into that rotary as well as two accesses that are interconnected between the parking lots of marathon school and the future charleswood School the road that continues around the outside provides for our active car queuing during um drop off and pickup at the school so cars would come in at The Rotary they would take that side road along what are the PE athletic fields and queue around the back of the building that provides additional queuing space to allow more cars to wait for drop off and pickup off of Hayden row and we expect that it will pull cars off of Hayden row we also have a significant much more than we'll initially need space for Bus drop off and those buses will be shared between the marathon school as well as the charleswood school to ensure that we can efficiently um move uh students off of onto and off of the site um with our planning layout so uh as Chris mentioned the circulation plan with arrows so yellow are the school bus uh circulation movements and then pink is that parent drop off um and pickup circulation pattern um so going back uh so just General kind of grading and layout uh some of the rationale on why the site is laid out as it is is because there's also um Wetlands uh located on the site that have been flagged so we are in front of conservation for that but you can see here outlined in purple is the actual resource areas in here and here and here and then yellow is those copper so um to work with conservation and to comply with those uh environmental regulations we're trying to stay out of them as much as possible so kind of see why um things are lay out out to get as far away um from those as possible um and so again the circulation around the school um and the proposed planting plan um and we have Ashley who can walk through it a little bit everybody Ashley colan Traverse Landscape Architects thank you so much for having me um so we do understand that there's a substantial amount of clearing is a part of this project but we are proposing a significant revation effort uh with shade trees lining the entire entry drive and in and around the school um including the rear drive around that back um parent Loop between the fields and the play areas um I just also wanted to make another note that back loop around the school is actually closed during the daytime that will be used as um parent drop off so that can be actually closed off and that allows for uh clear circulation for the students so that they can access all those reare playgrounds um from the back of the school without having to cross any vehicular traffic um so plenty of shade trees being proposed lots of native decid um evergreen shrubs um and then I think what's also special about this project is we do have field space already built into the design that creates the necessary lawn space for the kids to play so you'll see that in the PE space and then a smaller um field space between the playgrounds so the remainder of the property we're actually revegetating with combinations of Wildflower seed mix and bio retention mix as well as like a naturalization restoration mix so this really um I think plays well with the programming and educational programming of the school but it also creates a lot of much needed habitat in and around in a way that's not just lawn space um so and aside from that we do have Plaza space again at the front Bus drop off and then some really great outdoor classrooms located in the courtyards of the school that feed out to those playgrounds and happy to answer any questions after this presentation as well thank you um and then so as part of this uh there's and erosion uh and siment control plan um that would be enacted in the start of construction uh so the pink is compost uh filter socks and silt fence and then we also have um larger uh Co logs near the lower portions of the site um and so that is around the limit of the entire site to hold the sedimentation uh from escaping the limit of work line there's going to be construction entrances coming into the site um and then uh so all this gray hatching is the limit of clearing and then there are uh temporary sedimentation basins and swailes with check dams throughout the site uh to be able to control and direct uh storm water during that construction phasing um so it will pond in these yellow areas um and the water slow down by those check bams so the general utilities layout so in green um is the storm Water Management areas and then in Orange is sewer and so with sewer it is being pumped um up and over over towards uh Hayden row um and then you will Connect into the gravity system water we have uh two lines coming in and it feeds to a fire protection uh tank and then into the building uh we have a domestic water that loops around with hydrants off of it um to provide coverage around the site and the building um and then we have electrical coming into the building and there is no Gap as part of this [Music] project hold on one second let me stop sharing it seems my Hing has crashed sorry about that [Music] everyone I have it as well Michelle if you need to share it NOP I'm just going to open up the ACT ual PowerPoint PowerPoint I that will be not crashing okay um let me reshare [Music] again so um and so this is the other half of the site and is to the uh the left hand side or the West um and so again the sewer uh from the building is being pumped and then it goes by gravity and connects into um the gravity system in Hayden Row the water connection the electrical and then drainage uh is Flowing uh from Marathon down towards the rotary and so um so then here is a close um view of what is connecting in Hayden row that we both we have the domestic and Fire Protection the electrical and the sewer and drainage is um outling to the wetlands but is not connecting into the [Music] street so site um will be there's going to be electrical and lighting throughout the site um so it will be lit up um and so there'll be post and lighting coming up the driveways and then again around the site um so for the storm water systems uh there are numerous underground uh and above ground storm water systems uh so we have infiltration system one that is close to um Hayden row and this is a leeching um storm water system there's subsurface systems two and three and four that are also leing into the ground um so it recharges the groundwater table then you have surface uh subsurface detension system one and two that is a closed system um and so it does not allow recharge but it slows the rate of water down because we're meeting both uh the peak ratees and the volumes of reducing from the uh post construction compared to existing conditions uh we have a intention Basin in the rear of the building and a rain Garden that's also uh able to be used as an outdoor classroom um and then some vegetated swells here in red um so um subsurface so this is in red is highlighted the piping of the storm water system so back to this so subsurface system one so the storm water coming down from marathon is captured into subsurface system one one then Outlets um into partially into two and then partially um Outlets to the wetlands uh subsurface system two uh then uh partially uh discharges to the wetlands and overflows toward um the large system in the rear hair that Outlets to the tension Basin uh subsurface system three um is connected where it collects the storm water from the parking lot here and goes into infiltration system two and then three and then we'll Outlet to the reare of the site here um and then the driveways around the back here um and the building goes to the or 2third of the building goes to the um infiltration system four that Outlets into the Basin and then Outlets into the wooded area um and then a portion of the building uh this portion of the wing will then go to the detention Basin and then Outlet um into the woods and then we have various Outlet control structures um to control the rate of flow that uh water is leaving these systems because uh we don't want there to be erosion or um to act like a fire hose or anything like that so everything is designed to be controlled um at the rate of waterers leaving and then the timing of that [Music] so then and then this is the storm art again in relation to the wetlands um as um we work around the site and then we have um Dan if you want to speak to the building elevations themselves sure um the building uh is largely masonry building it's a combination of different scale masonry units and uh it's also um organized in a way that is to break down that scale so when the little kids come up to the building and they're when dropped off that there's a lower scale kind of entrance experience and then the back of the building are the three academic Wings which are three stories each and those that's um for a reason we uh want to be able to allow the district to organize the school by grade or by floor so each Wing can be a grade or each Wing can each floor can be a grid um so it's largely an exercise in trying to scale a large building for smaller students and so that they don't feel I mean this is the largest building that they will interact with on a daily basis and one of those the district and and the building committee and US included were all really interested in making sure that the building scale was would be manageable and approachable so this is I believe the typical classroom elevation or at least it's from the side from the gymnasium um this is the front elevation is the top uh the gymnasium is on the left cafeteria is on the right uh in the center is the administrative areas and you can see in the background receding with a different color are those classroom wings and this elevation below is the north side of the gym and then that classroom Wing again um one of the other things we're trying to do is reduce or minimize the amount of glass so that our window to wall ratio is as low as we possibly can get we usually try to Target somewhere in the low 20% range 24 25% at the most and that allows for um a highly sustainable and energy efficient building so we try to maximize the amount of daylight minimize the amount of of area to lose that necessary heat and cooling um because the windows are the biggest place where heat and cool leave your building this two elevations here are typical classroom South Side you can see the cafeteria on the left um that classroom Wing the third classroom Wing is on the right and then the top elevation is the re re of the building and that large um curtain wall area towards the left side is actually the entrance so one of the things about the experience of the entrance is you come through that front door and then you are greeted by seeing right out into the wild into the um Courtyards and the play areas and out into the into nature Beyond so the connections between um nature and the building were also critically important to everybody on the design team here's a few more more technical elevations but these are just classroom elevations on the bottom is the third Southern classroom Wing from the front of the building approach and the cafeteria the one in the middle cafeteria is on the right that's that glass area it has a clear story gra glass element that allows light to filter in from above and then the classroom Wing um that's the South classroom wing and the upper one looks like I can't read that from here but it looks to be uh the elevation of the um again from the cafeteria looks like the southern Wing rear elevation and that lowest first floor area is the area to the most southern side um one of the other things we did was we tried to step the building down because the site does kind of roll down towards towards that neighborhood and we tried to lower the building a couple feet as we moved across the site and then the low portion of the building is adjacent to that part of the site so that the build the neighbors on that side are not confronted with the three story building they actually have some relief there so um that's just a general overview um of the site um in the proposed project so we'll turn it back over Michelle I think we had um I think Matt was going to do traffic he had two slides in the pdf version that I don't think are in your p uh your PowerPoint version I can bring those up I have them available um do we want to pull up the the couple grabbing them now bear with me sure okay uh uh good evening thank you for your time tonight my name is Michael Santos with VHB uh we are the transportation consultant on the project um I'm just going to take a BRI uh go over this briefly give you a highlight High Lev overview of of the traffic study that was submitted with the planning board submitt um so we did we did conduct a traffic impact and access study um that was submitted with the planning board submission uh the study was conducted back in 2023 um we looked at the segment of Hayden Rose Street and also uh Grove Street as you can see on this map all the way from the intersection of Pleasant Street to the north all the way down to Chestnut Street in the South uh we looked at basically the how all of the schools work together so we did traffic counts at the high school driveways the Middle School driveways um the Hopkins school driveway Marathon so we we we conducted traffic counts and and evaluated the entire Corridor as part of the traffic study which is a little bit above and beyond what we would typically do for a traffic study for a school like this um the traffic study also um you know we projected out we project out traffic volumes into the field future um we did obtain uh the msba 10year projections for the town of hopkington so we could we could account for future uh enrollment growth when we were doing our study um we looked at specific time periods uh in the morning when students are dropped off uh not all so the high school and middle school operate on an earlier schedule so we we looked at when they when they drop off in the morning and also when the elementary schools drop off in the morning and then also in the afternoon we looked at uh the the peak hours for when the high school middle school and elementary schools um are are dismissed um so and just as part of the traffic study I'm not going to go into go into a lot of detail here uh but we did focus on uh site circulation I think that might be the next slide if we want to show that um okay yeah this is this is pretty good uh so we're we're in the as part of the study we did develop some conceptual plans for Hayden R Street for site access they're a little bit more detailed than this but they're they're still in progress and we've been coordinating with the town of hopkington DPW on refining those improvements uh but as you can see the uh the existing School uh a marathon school is currently uh operated by an unsignalized intersection on Hayden R Street uh the charleswood school were constructing a new driveway on Hayden row Street and what one of the uh one of the things that we spent a lot of time uh looking at is how vehicles uh is the vehicular circulation at both of these driveways another very important part of this project is the cross connection between the two schools so you can you can travel from charleswood to Marathon um and back without actually having to go out onto Hayden r street so we we we looked at um how we can best uh have these two intersections operate uh um so what we came up with is we're proposing a uh a traffic signal at the marathon school um and then the other uh charleswood school will be unsignalized and the traffic signal and we we looked at kind of both options signalizing both signalizing the charleswood school and leaving marathon unsignalized but we feel like what we have uh proposed in the traffic study is the best option and really what that allows us to do is uh put a traffic signal Marathon School uh which will allow you know all left turning vehicles from both schools will be able to exit there uh so we're going to restrict lefts coming out of charleswood so if you want to turn left you have to go out of marathon um we're going to extend the left turn lane at Marathon school right now I think it's probably about 100 to 150 feet it it doesn't have enough capacity even for the buses to turn into the school so we're going to be lengthening that lane um I think to around 350 to 400 ft and then also there will be another left turn lane uh to turn into uh the charleswood school um and all of this work will be will be uh within the existing uh public right of way so there's not going to be any any private property impacts um you know outside of the public Right Way um and also there's Ju Just Another comment about pedestrian connectivity so right now there's a uh a a rectangular WRA rapid flashing Beacon at Marathon uh again that that crosswalk will be improved and will'll be put under traffic signal control so there'll be a a traditional pedestrian push button that will connect um across uh to the to the west side of Hayden Rose Street and then at the driveway at charleswood school uh we're going to be installing a an rrfb there so that's just going to be one of those uh pedestrian actuated uh flashing flashing apparatuses that that will be installed there um they'll connect to the existing sidewalks on the west side of of Hayden row Street and see oh just one one additional thing the uh we did look at vehicular speeds on Hayden row Street and we we understand there's kind of um various speed regulations up and down the street and as as you kind of get south of where the uh where where the high school middle school are vehicle speeds do do tend to pick up um the the traffic signal we think will help maybe you know slow traffic down a little bit just because you know veh some Vehicles will have to come to a stop um it'll also you know create gaps for people exiting driveways and side streets um you know it might be difficult to turn left from Hayden row Street uh um onto Hayden r street from some of the side streets so we think that we we'll see some benefit there but again that's just a very very uh General overview um I understand that this will probably uh you know be peer-reviewed and there'll be more to come on on traffic so thanks for your time tonight thank you anything else from the applicant right now um we do have with us just for the committee's knowledge um or for the board's knowledge um the chair of the esbc is with us tonight as well as um the facilities director the superintendent and the um associate superintendent for business and finance um they're available for question and answer um I I didn't get a chance to reach out to them to see if they want to speak tonight but I yield to the uh board as to whether you'd rather ask questions and then hear from them in public comment or if you'd like to hear from them now if they're interested in speaking uh if I any of them have anything they want to add at this moment um I can give them the floor thank you everybody for attending in case we got any questions uh if the applicant is set for the moment I believe staff report is next John through the chair not a ton uh to report from my end on this one uh seems pretty straightforward it's a pretty big school they're going to go through the whole peer review process and we'll flesh out all the problems there but um one of the things that I did notice and the applicant said that it is a known issue and they are addressing it separately is that the parking doesn't seem to work with the zoning uh they're providing um what is it 200 parking spaces they said that they're required to do 300 planning board is able to reduce the number of parking on a site plan uh that's something the plane war is allowed to do as long as the parking that is not going to be constructed so the amount difference between what's required and what's provided is shown on the plan as being able to be constructed and it's just not constructed so it could be built in the future um that wasn't done so the applicant said that they're working through that issue and they they know that it's there uh and then that's also going to throw off the EV calculation because it's going to be based on the parking that they've provided what's required so um there's just that question that needs to be answered from my end uh the rest was captured Through Fire Department Public Works health department and then what will be captured through the um peer RW and you're working through the parking situation right now so we'll hold off on that till a later meeting uh we're in discussions with the zoning enforcement officer about that issue and we just don't have a anything to share with the committee at this time makes sense um what does the timeline look like for peer review I have not heard from time bond yet but they're usually pretty quick to turn around so I would expect something this week but um I can definitely check with them tomorrow uh any questions from the board at this point Jane um have you given any thought to improving or adding on or not doing anything with the sidewalks in front of the schools anyone from the applicant So currently the plan is to leave the sidewalk um across the street and create the two connections that BHB shared with the sidewalks across the street um our initial thought in not investigating sidewalks on both sides of the street is um many of you may have noticed from driving down Hayden row that we staked the location of the roadway improvements that were discussed with DPW and um there is a significant impact to a lot of the abutters as a result of um the RightWay work that's being done there and rather than impose upon the abutters we thought it was a safer approach to take people across the street there is a sidewalk that will lead from both entrances all the way into the building um and that does provide um the opportunity for folks to cross the street at either the uh rrfb or um the signalized intersection and take a sidewalk all the way to the intended School CH I would also add that there's an interconnected sidewalk from the charleswood to the marathon School correct yes I believe so thank you any other questions from the board don't see any other questions from the oh Lucia um I know we're gonna come back to parking but I think in reading that I just wanted to say having had a child at Marathon for several years now at this point um parking is a really big issue at Marathon so looking at 180 staff members and 200 parking spaces for this new school um that definitely was a concern for me so I'm curious to hear more about that either now or in the future is Michael or Chris y we are looking at the overall count it is something that we um we're studying the um there's an opportunity with two schools next to each other to have shared use for surge days of parking um you could have parents night on Alternate nights for marathon and um the charleswood school uh we also looked at the possibility of uh parallel parking along the interconnection of Roads creating additional Supply but um in discussion with the district we find that that parking is typically used for event-based parking and not in the course of the ordinary school day and so the focus was on um creating opportunities for those surge days such as the additional 60 spaces at the end of the PE field um as the focus of that parking there isn't uh there's a child care facility um rate for parking in the zoning regulations but I don't believe that um hopkington has a codified parking count for schools and so that's part of the discussion that we're having with the zoning enforcement officer one of the things that was proposed was um a sharing of parking for those High um parking count days with what's available at Marathon or vice versa as a result of the proposed project and that's an ongoing discussion that we don't have the results of yet and if anyone on my team has anything to add to that I don't know Dan if you want to add anything no I think that sums up our right now what our position is or where we're at Elise um I'm not sure if you would know this the answer to this but um in in terms of parking um if do you know if charleswood is going to have um like a drivethru pickup for the students because at Marathon you have to park and wait in line and physically walk in and pick up your kid so if charleswood has sort of like a drive through um pickup and drop off option for both dismissal and arrival then I think that would help me make my decision about parking or because I I also have a child at Marathon and when you pick up in the afternoon it's a mess and people are parked all in the fire lane and to me that just raises so many red flags um so I'm just curious what the dismissal will be like at the other school because that also concerns me about the parking space numbers be happy to walk you through that yeah and I could Chris I could jump in really quickly um you'll notice when you did look at the site plan the loop around the back of the school is pretty extensive it's over 2,000 feet so it has a very large capacity and that was really deliberate so that you could have an extensive uh pick off pickup and drop off and Chris I don't know if you don't mind with your cursor just kind of outlining that Loop the So currently we have a loop that would be separated during the day so nonp pickup and drop off we have a gate that's located here and we have a gate that's located here the intent would be that as parents arrive via the signalized intersection they can take this road through the rotary and they begin queuing around the back of the school after that gate is opened by controlling the gate you make sure that you don't have unreleased kids in the back of the school at that time um which is important for for the um student safety and it also ensures that you don't have parents um you know where your parents are at any given time as they surround the building the drop off pickoff point would be located um directly to the south of the building here which is adjacent to where the cafeteria is which helps for marshalling the kids as they're getting ready to go out the parents would pull up and um through a series of sidewalks and stack we would um get the match the appropriate child to the appropriate parent similar to some of the systems that are used now and we have significantly more space for that to occur I don't remember the exact number off the top of my head um but I believe it was in the neighborhood of 190 or 200 Cars um that we believed that we could queue here and still be able to get buses in and out um the buses separately use a completely different entrance so they don't take this detour like the parents would so they can come to the school pick up um the students and then swap the buses here with the buses at Marathon and do two stages of bus pickup so they could be staged in the gym and that allows staff to manage the students in a safe way to the cars and it allows the cars to back up without overwhelming the entrance roads into the school does that answer your question yes thank you any other questions from the board okay any questions from the public please raise your hand or uh Mr and Mrs Cary okay all right uh can you hear me yep we can hear you fine okay okay all right uh name please oh I'm I'm sorry George and Gail Cary one Brian Lane thank you okay the school is in our backyard and we think schools are good neighbors so we don't have a problem with that we want to go on record um but that storm water thing the schematic that I last saw in the bottom right it's showed the water exiting towards our property and I'm concerned that it all the gray de goes all downhill anyways following an old cat Road and I'm kind of concerned about how much water is going to be coming out there and where is it going to go after it comes from there so there's there's some requirements uh that that are required to meet for the storm water management um but Chris do you have any specific answers right now to that uh Michelle I think you you spoke to this a little bit and I'll bring it up on screen again yeah I can share my screen right now sure um so this is the storm water system um and of just the rear property so the the regulations say that um so in the current conditions storm water it it rains on the site and certain amount of water leaves the site um and part of this submission is that we modeled uh what that existing conditions looks like and how much water is falling on the site and how much is leaving the site um and the regulation says that in the proposed conditions uh the storm water leaving the site cannot exceed the existing conditions so we have designed the various storm water systems and modeled them um to show that the amount of water that is leaving the site will not exceed the existing conditions um so while some of the storm water is going to Wetlands um that are in the site uh kind of on the west hand site at the rear of the site um we are slowly releasing water into the woods um and that will go into the woods and part of that is that there's also root uptake as part of that system uh design um so it's not um just an open hose just going into the backyard um so it's controlled and timed um but uh there's designed that the water is picked up from the systems and they're allowed they're slowed down they're able to recharge back into the ground and then the water that is not able to recharge into the ground um does flow over land similar to kind of how it the site works now so water does flow over land uh but in the storm water report that we submitted and it will be part of the peer review process um is that we're showing that in the exist in the proposed conditions we're actually reducing the amounts of water leaving the site compared to existing conditions and Michelle um for the car's reference the large green area between the two playgrounds um that rectangular area that would be underground infiltration so the idea would be that the storm water from the site including along the road line um would be piped to one of those green structures and that would give an opportunity for the water to absorb back into the ground up to a certain point and to the right of the proposed drawing we would be creating a new Pond that doesn't exist now where that water would rest and we would have to overflow to a certain point before the water would discharge from that pond correct in addition to that I think you said this during your earlier remarks that cluster of I think it's six structures in the bottom right of the drawing that's controlled storm waterer discharge so that can't be um fast moving water coming out of that structure based on the way it's designed so those are dry Wells so it gives additional um opportunity for the water to recharge back into the ground um and then there's Stone rip wraps arounded that so so uh once uh in the larger storm events uh the water does start bubbling up uh through the grapes and um is controlled by how many graes and the siing and um the stone around that ax make sure that it um doesn't cause erosion but it's uh controlling the rate of the water that's coming out as well and the timing of it in the duration of a storm thank you okay thank you very much all right thank you I appreciate your time any other questions from the public do we uh for the planning board um do we feel that it's expedient to schedule a site walk at this point or wait till we have it sounds like the peer review is coming up uh hopefully coming up shortly um do we want to talk about scheduling a site walk or hold off on that for now or I guess I think it's more useful if we have the peer review beforehand so that we can ask relevant questions or followup questions okay so we'll hold off to next meeting after we've had some time to discuss and go back and forth on the peer review anybody have any different opinions before we move on uh since we have everybody here any any any more questions from the uh planning board or the public uh for the assembled uh group of people presenting no see yeah so um going back to queuing at pickup um I'm wondering if you looked at how long the line cues at Elmwood currently and and how long when the loop is gated like how long the parents will be stretching out given that it's second third and fourth and then you also will have buses trying to go around any parents who are queuing beyond that one little strip of Road that's on the north side of the building um I'm just thinking because at Elwood the line of cars cues out onto the Road um and the buses are right now able to go around essentially like driving on the wrong side of the the driveway into the school and that's how they get around it and I don't know if with a rotary if parents are backed up into that rotary if that would still allow for buses to move at pickup time um I believe we did uh Dan we did parking counts at Elmwood in addition to what we have and I think that once we have the per review and those comments some of the supplemental information that we provide could also be um Q length comparisons um of what's available at Elmwood Now versus what we're providing here I think that might help to address the board's um concern um it is I believe significantly longer distances that are involved um there there will be some traffic management as there are with any um any school drop off condition um but it is a it's a significantly longer distance I believe than what we have at Elwood and if I could just add through the chair um John Graziano chair of the esbc for those who don't know me um the a number of the design decisions that we made to this point as a committee were with exactly what you're talking about in mind um this is you know we recognize obviously the traffic impact of adding another school to this to this area and both setting the school back a bit further from the road that was really intentional to increase the length of that queue so we could pull as many of those cars off of the road and we took some pretty um we took some pretty conservative assumptions when it comes to even you know you're probably going to pick up some efficiencies and drop off and pick up because there are a lot more people who have a kid at Marathon and a kid at wood so they're going or the new charleswood so you'll be getting one trip through but we tried to be as conservative as possible so we didn't create those backups that we know um are being seen right now and the the lengths of these cues are significantly larger on site than they are on the current buildings I guess on that point of parents picking up in both locations is there going to be any issue with timing if somebody's got to be at both schools and waiting to get through line in all honesty it should actually really reduce that problem because right now for parents who have that they got to get across town and so um this will um this will significantly like we we can't obviously fully predict this but like I think this will actually have a beneficial impact at that time on cross town traffic because those parents who are doing that will be able to use the connecting roads between the sites pick up however many students they have at both schools without ever leav the site and from a Time perspective it'll be able to be accommodated much more easily than having to book it all the way from Marathon to Elmwood to try to you know get your kid before they call we actually looked at a number of synergies that relate to that currently you have buses at Hopkins pick up students and take them to Marathon and the release of those buses is coordinated by the traffic guards um so they'll release all the buses from one school and release them at the other and so you have com competing Crossroad buses um at both schools at the same time you have one of the busier stretches of Road in town and all the parents attempting to turn left in a turning lane that we're going to grow by three times the size it currently is so the Improvement should overall help that in that we're um re uh reorienting sort of the groupings of buses so that we would have marathon and charleswood sharing and then Hopkins and the Middle School sharing and it's actually going to reduce I think 71 bus routes across town as a result of that um working together so you're taking buses bus routes off of the streets and you're giving more opportunity for queuing parents to turn in a lane outside the flow of traffic and so when we looked at that it was a net Improvement hopefully removing 71 bus routes is a nice savings to the uh bottom line there any other questions from anybody uh pting board or public uh so if we're expecting PE review in the upcoming weeks uh seems like we'll have something to discuss on August 19th um so it seems prudent to continue till then uh so uh through the chair yep um is the planning town planning um staff confident will have a peer review with ample time to respond John I would have to talk to time Bond I would hope they they would have something for you again this week um check with them tomorrow but I will I will talk to them tomorrow and press them to say we need something for uh next meeting where you guys have a chance to respond before the meeting yeah I'm just wondering how far in advance of the meeting um because the way the calendar Falls uh we're meeting again in two weeks so if we were to receive it in the latter half of this week um we could certainly put something together in response but um that won't come together instantly and if there's a lead time to have it in the board's hands to review for the 19th um we we just like to know that so that we know that it's practical we could also continue to the 19th and then pending discussions with staff um delay that hearing if necessary depending on where the peer review comes out I'm just I I wouldn't want to reappear before you with the same information and just more questions part of my thought for the 19th is if we have something and even just a cursory response it would give us uh time to schedule a site walk with some information um but I will uh leave it up to you whether you would like the 19th or the 9th okay what I'm going to go with the 19th with that in mind and if nothing else we can we can get you on site and um we recently did that same walk with the Conservation Commission so we have all the materials ready excellent so in that case I'll entertain a motion to continue the uh what's the full name of this we'll continue the hearing on the already scroll down it's a long section major project s plan and storm water management permit for charleswood school until the August 19th so moved a second second uh okay roll call vote uh Alise yes Lucia yes Michael yes arker yes Jane yes Karen yes Vic yes and Matthew vona yes um so we'll continue to the 19th we'll see you again there hopefully we'll have peer review set but very least we'll schedule a uh schedule s sidewalk hopefully thank you very much for everybody that uh came on for that we have one more hearing to open uh new public hearing for zero Benson Road the amended definitive sub subdivision plan Wade kamo um as the applicant I will entertain a motion to open the new public hearing for zero binon Road amended definitive subdivision plan so moved second okay and roll call vote Elise yes Lucia yes Michael Yes Parker yes Jane yes Karen yes Vic yes and Matthew vonz yes all right um does the uh applicant online or somebody speaking for the applicant is that they they reached out uh prior to the meeting and said that they would like to continue um so I think they want to continue do we have NOP Joe sorry Joe Marin is on the call okay Joe do you uh want to present anything or do we just want to continue to later like to continue uh we're looking for input from legal council Unfortunately they are traveling and weren't able to connect via Zoom so I think it'd be more prudent if we could pick this up uh hopefully the 19th but obviously we are amenable to whatever the board has time John do we have any issues with the agenda for the 19th right now um I don't believe so but let me check we have a new major project site plan and storm water management for Laborers that's an amendment uh but it's a new hearing and then the hearings that were continued tonight so should be fine okay so I will entertain a motion to continue the public hearing on zero Benson Road amended definitive subdivision plan until August uh August 19th meeting so moved second and we'll do a roll call vote uh Elise yes Lucia yes Michael Yes Parker yes Jane yes Karen yes Vic yes and Matthew vonz yes uh so we'll see you on August 19th great thank you very much thank you for sticking around so late um believe that is the last hearing uh decisions public hearing uh any other concerns from the board before we entertain a motion to uh man it's late entation entertain a motion uh to adjourn uh hearing nothing our next meeting is August 19th the 9th and 23rd and I will entertain a motion to adjourn so moved second and we need a roll call vote uh Elise yes Lucia yes Michael Yes Parker yes Jane yes Karen yes Vic yes and Matthew vonz yes thank you everybody um we made it under the uh the zoom time I didn't think we do that yeah great me see you all on the 17th just a reminder forget to sign the form case thank you Matthew perfect see you in the office John cheers everyone