through the chair you're live on hcam TV thanks Bob we don't have a chair yet first ual business okay John for all right board I think everyone is here so we can get started all right uh thanks John I'm uh Hey everybody rob Benson um I'm gonna kick it off as the the vice chair from our last term uh this is the first time since I've been part of the board that uh the chair from the previous term wasn't here for this process so I'm going to read the uh introductory script about uh remote meetings uh and then we're going to go into our first agenda agenda item is to reorganize uh select a chair and a vice chair it's what we do after uh election so let me kick it off read the script of a remote meeting and then uh we'll go into reorg all right pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2023 this meeting will be conducted via remote means in accordance with applica law this means that members of the public body as well as members of the public May access the meeting via virtual means participants May access this meeting through the remote meeting link as posted on the meeting agenda and through the town's online calendar when required by law or Allowed by the chair persons wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in the meeting May do so by raising their hand or otherwise signaling their intent to speak this meeting will be recorded please take care to mute your microphone unless you have been recognized by the chair we will now confirm attendance of members please res uh respond with present if you are on the call uh Alise mayosi present uh Lucia Lopez present uh Matthew Ronka present uh Michael King present Parker hap present Jane Moran present uh Karen Willis Wills present Wills sorry that's okay I've been called worse uh vicaso prati present and obviously Rob Benson is present so we're just going to jump into our agenda the first thing on our agenda is obviously reorganize so typically in years past uh someone will nominate somebody they'll say yeah I'm interested or no I'm not and you can nominate one two you can nominate as many people as you want for chair and vice chair you can nominate them either collectively or you can nominate we can start with a chair or vice chair um but that's that's the first thing on our agenda so we can organize for this upcoming year so I'll open it up to anybody that wants to uh speak you can raise your hand you can kind of visually give me a cue you want to speak whatever you want to do to let me know Rob uh go ahead Jane I can kick it off by uh nominating uh you to be the chair thanks Jane uh vicaso I see your hair just raised yes I was about to say that but Jane beat me to it so can second it you can second it uh can we nominate even the vice chair right now or sure sure let's just do it all at uh so for the vice chair can I nominate Matthew I would like to nominate Matthew for that okay and I'll second Matthew um I yeah I'm interested in being chair Matthew are you interested in being a vice chair um yeah I mean I'd love to help out either chair Vice chair help out um whatever's going to work for the board all right is there any other uh nominations do we just want to jump into a vote uh I think John had perspective language here second I think uh so this is a little unusual but uh I'd like to entertain a motion actually John was was what Jane and and vicaso and Parker seconded was that an official motion I I don't I don't didn't really follow that um so you nominated them so he doesn't really need a second for a nomination but now the Board needs to vote to actually appoint or elect those positions so the motion would be to um that the board elects Rob Benson as chair and Matt Von Matthew vonka as Vice chair you can do that as one or you can do them separately all right I I'd like to entertain a motion to nominate uh Rob Benson and Ma as chair and Matthew Rona as Vice chair of the planning board uh for the upcoming year so moved all right so Jane moved the motion and Michael seconded I'm just gonna go down my uh the roll call here uh Alise meowski yes uh Lucia Lopez yes uh Matthew Rona yes uh Michael King yes Harker hap yes Jane Moran yes Karen Wills yes vicaso pry yes and Rob Enon is a yes so this is a little uh different of a meeting for us normally we have um uh the chair normally well it's been Gary for I think three years or May where he'd meet with JN to kind of review the agenda items but I I knew I was going to be kicking off the meeting but I didn't want to be presumptive uh in the least so there's some things that are gonna we're going to just kind of have to deal with throughout the meeting where we don't have um we we haven't they haven't been reviewed with John or at least discussed by the chair ahead of time uh so we're going to do our best to go through the agenda we're going to follow along the agenda um and uh I'd like to welcome officially welcome Lucia Lopez to the board and Karen Wills to the board thank you for uh signing up for this endeavor uh we're welcome to have you all right so the first thing on our agenda is a is a I think a very uh um is a topic we've discussed at length over I think the past two years and that's the MBTA communities discussion um at town meeting uh the town voted to not approve the plan that was presented um so I I think we need to think about our path forward and what we do it seems like there's def def definitely going to be a um a special town meeting in the fall and we want to have a proposal for that special town meeting um also we typically don't talk a lot about what other towns are doing but other towns are uh experiencing um similar issues it's not going uh smooth sailing across every town in in Massachusetts where they're trying to uh Institute this MBTA zoning bylaw change in overlay districts in each Town um obviously everybody knows Milton uh is being sued by the state we know there's uh I think a dozen plus other towns that are rejected uh rejected the proposed MBTA overlay District there's 20 different communities that have formed a um like a I don't know if it's a class action but have joined together to try to sue the state to for overreach but I think we want to put forward our best plan together uh to get it P to get it behind us um in the best interest of our community in our town so that's that's what I think our goal should be and with that being said I'd love to hear if there's any opinions on like um what we should do should we think about it from just restart the thought process should we kind of uh um ultimately I I want to give the zoning advisory committee Direction because we're probably G we're going to kick it back to them to have additional public hearings over the next several uh months and several weeks and I think we want to give them direction of uh what we'd like to see happen because ultimately we'll be the ones uh moving it forward to town meeting uh Matthew go ahead does it make sense to start with just kinding to understand what the timeline is before we do that uh so obviously we need to have something accepted by end of year to be in compliance like practically when would we need to start the process of scheduling the the special town meeting having the warrant set Etc I don't think we schedule the T the special town meeting I I John I don't know if if in town hall they've had any discussion about that date or yeah we have so um because it's a national election the town clerk's office has basically said that not going to have a special town meeting in um November or October so we basically have September or December to have it and um it's not the board that it's not the it's not the planning board that scheduled it it's the select board so they'll have to pick one um probably with some input from the planning board as to when we think there's going to be a actionable NBTA communities proposal but um it's really going to be September or December sorry go ahead and Rob do we need to have this is probably a question for John but do we need to know uh do we have need to have any lead time for it to be approved by the state um ahead of the December 31st timeline or do we just need to have it yeah so that one's kind of tricky because there is a post adoption process that we would have to go through to file it with the state for them to confirm compliance it has to be done before December 31st I'm just kind of throwing this out I I don't know if it's true but I would imagine if we approved it at that special town meeting in December and we just can't get it done by the 31 I would really hope the state would give us an extension that that would be kind of you know ridiculous if they didn't but I can't guarantee that they would all right thanks John uh ViaSat to the chair um firstly I just would like to say that I was part of the Jack when this discussion was happening a well thought process which was put in forward and I would like to say thank you to John also because the kind of Outreach he has done was way outstanding repeatedly meeting the residance and open for it but uh where I'm coming from is that you know we had an elections as and voted it out the state should respect it felt it feels like blackmail to me that you know viting my voting rights here saying that you either vote for this or I'll sue you that's how the state's coming back so we just have to make sure sure that we plan it properly the people understands that you know what is the need for it and what is that loss maybe that needs to be a little more elaborated to reach out to the people and see how we can get this forward so that's all I want thanks I do think the uh the C the court case with Milton is GNA be uh presided over in the fall uh so that will say a lot uh about legally what the if the state can mandate this or like obviously um the town of Milton is going to put up a defense to as to uh defend themselves against being sued and uh ultimately a judge will determine what who if that if the state can legally enforce this or not um so that is going to happen in the fall uh I think it's scheduled for October uh go go ahead Michael Rob sorry um can I oh VI sure finish so if we decide Hopkinton has to be part of this class action shoot whatever you mentioned is that also an option are we exploring I just wanted to understand I don't think it's uh it's necessarily um uh like us as a planning board would take that route it's it seems that it's individual citizens from Individual towns that are joining this lawsuit on behalf of their town and so I would have to dig more into it and uh I think this is all can be found on the internet but it's not like the planning boards of different towns are are suing this to it's uh on behalf of Hopkinton somebody decides to join this lawsuit that the state is uh overreaching in their Authority and doesn't have the authority to mandate this into the town of hopkington that's what's happening in other communities go at least a few thank you thank you for fling go ahead Michael yeah I just wanted to um talk about the process a little bit too so are we going to kind of follow the same order that we did last time where we're going to kind of have um overlay districts brought to us from um uh the zoning committee I think we want to be more prescriptive to uh um so some towns how this has been rolled out across the state from my perspective is uh Rapid Transit communities have had to uh gain approval or pass MBTA communities bylaw zoning districts first and a lot of those cities and towns have existing housing that is of that density so they uh created overlay districts over Parcels of land that already have that Den density housing so for them besides the town of Milton they didn't it wasn't uh it wasn't very fearful to the communities because they already had these are already significantly sized cities in towns um but as it's as it's spreading out to more Suburban communities a lot more of the Suburban communities are trying to uh deal with how this could impact their Town impact the need for schools impact the need for uh services like fire department police department and so on um anyways I I hope that maybe that gives a little guidance I I'm not I don't know I kind of went off on a tangent yeah yeah no I mean to the chair I mean it makes sense right I mean it seemed like um even a town meeting for us right like the center you know the zoning part in the center of town wasn't really the you know part that was um you know causing the issues it was the stuff near the train station and um The Preserve so I didn't know if we were gonna have any input in discussing where the next Zone would be yeah I don't think we we should go the route of just uh not being a providing even depending how what level of guidance we want to Pro provide I think we want to be uh we want to provide some guidance and even direct input into that process I don't think we want to um just move forward uh a plan if we as a board don't think it's the right plan uh Alise go ahead uh thanks Rob I think since town meeting um did not want to go forward with what we had agreed as a board we all liked I would really personally like to hear more um like in public forums I would like to hear more from the people in town what why they didn't like it was it the zones they didn't like was it the fact that they didn't like the idea that there might potentially be so much growth in town I would like to know specifically what it was that people didn't like um and I would just like to hear more people cuz a lot of people at Town meetings said that they just weren't aware of it and they didn't know they just seemed to not not have any clue about it so um although I disagree with that I think we put out a lot of information I think there are a lot of people in town who need more information and I would like to hear from their feedback too before we just go making decisions and telling people what to do I I tend to agree with that the uh I I always look at my role on the planning board as a uh someone that's elected and I'm supposed to represent the community the best I can so uh I I tend to wholeheartly agree with your sentiment that we should try to uh gather more input in public forums we got to figure out how to do that because we weren't like the people that attended attended we it's not like we all of a sudden had a thousand people on a one of our planning board meetings so we got to figure out how we can get more um uh more aware Ness I guess if nothing else and then awareness will lead to input uh Parker go ahead I am muted uh picking backing off the idea is I I think we have to go door too and I think we have to put some sort of flyer or like a survey in people's doors and pledge to like canvas and talk to folks because we this was lamented at the most recent Zach meeting like what more could have been done it's I I was walking in my community talking to folks uh door to door about it and I asked a neighbor you know have what do you have an opinion on NBTA communities and she said I don't know what it is I'm not on Facebook I don't read the news um so you I'm not saying that that's everybody but the point is is that it's incumbent upon us as you know leaders to go and meet these people you know where where they are but more importantly give them a reporting mechanism to solicit the uh advice from them and if that's shoving the fly on their doors and asking to mail it in um or you know hosting uh you know repeated um you know gatherings in specific areas of perceived affected um parts of town like we have to go to these people because we we literally lost by like five Vats if that's the difference of what it was and I don't think that we should look at the totality of the effort as you know a failure I think was a failure of Outreach um and education there was a lot of in misinformation so as uh you know a doubly beneficial uh even thing if we're to go and meet these folks and talk to them they're going to become aware of the realities of that you're not losing property rights that you're not being disenfranchised that this isn't going to lead to a reduction in the you know property values of your home so that's my take for what it is and I'll volunteer to do the work uh We've since I've been on the board we have never tried this but uh John do do we have any like uh budget if we did want to send out like a mailer like a postcard like are you aware of MBTA communities these are the five things you should be aware of we have not budgeted for that in the annual budget I'm know cost to every household I I yeah so we can we can think about like if we want to do that how we could uh like pull that off like I know we can get some coverage I think uh like in the independent and hop news and like ehhop and like we through the chair could we do like email blasts to save money and paper Bo I don't know that we have a way to contact like I I like it's not like we have a townwide email distribution list that I uh that I'm aware of but like we could try to leverage mailing lists like that there are with ehhop or Hopkin and independent or Hop news I'm sure they've got to have mailing list and maybe maybe they'd be willing to uh let us use those lists for this purpose uh I don't know that's something we'd have to investigate sorry for jumping in but I do have a suggestion I mean if we did something like a survey you can use Survey Monkey and you just put the link in Hop news in the other in the independent and the other thing and if you're interested and you want to take our survey you know you have to put in your name address email and then they can just fill it out that way you don't even need a mailing list just give them the link yeah uh I'm trying I'm just trying to I'm tactically trying to think through in my mind what how to pull how to make that happen but uh while I do that Matthew go ahead yeah so I I I want to be cogent if we're trying to hit September we've got three months to do go through this process and this took over a year worth of time to get what we had last time um there's some people we just not going to reach and I think you know we we missed by votes if we flipped five of those we would have made it um a lot of this is who showed up and trying to explain and convince to people in the room um I don't think we did a good job of that or even explaining why we selected the locations we did and I think we need to tailor our presentation differently um instead of just explaining we pick these places and this is why we need to do this I I think that's just the first phase is why it's important and why it's important that we're complying and as a planning board regardless of how any of the cases come out like we should be assuming that this is the law of the state we need to have a proposal regardless of whether we think it's the right thing or or not to follow the law it is currently the law um and so we should have at least have a proposal uh that that works in compliance and so we've got the part of explaining why it's important but also why these were the parcels that we picked I I know that Zach tried to walk back the complexity of their process uh so that we weren't going to confuse people but I don't I think we came back too far and explaining why we didn't turn industrial zones into uh into an overlay District or why we didn't pick other options that uh wouldn't have been in line with our our town planning and why these were the best Solutions because I don't think that came across in the presentation very well yeah I I I don't think we we tried to I think the general approach was trying to um pick Parcels that wouldn't be readily uh developable in the short term and so from my perspective What towns seem to be doing some towns seem to be going the route of just purely trying to do what the uh uh the media has dubbed paper compliance and paper compliance means they pick zones or Parcels of land that will have no impact there'll be no new housing built uh and so as a town we we tried to do that to some degree with some part some percentage of the land uh being potentially developable over time and hopefully a longtime Horizon away but I don't think we are maybe articulated that strategy as well as we should have so I I think as a as a first step I guess I'd like to hear from the board what should our strategy be like if we go with like there's kind of the three Alternatives in my mind there's p paper compliance which is we come up with Parcels of land that meet the meet the bylaw uh and they really are not going to lead to new housing we try to do a strategy we did last time where we kind of do that for some part of the land and and some part has the potential to be developed over time but hopefully not too soon to increase everybody taxes and need new schools in the short term or do we go the route of just picking a parcel that could be easily de Parcels that could easily be developed and I think um that might be an against what the what the town wants in terms of the needing new schools but that's that's my opinion so I guess I'd like to hear from people what what do you what do you think our overall strategy high level strategy should be what's the best long-term vision for the town like what's going to be the best as this if this were actually built I me that's there's two questions right what's the what if this were actually built where's the best place to put it the second question is going to be how do we manage the growth as that gets built out and so there's two different aspects that we need to address and I think we need to address both of those uh in a proposal thanks Matthew go ahead Karen yeah thank you um so sort of aligned with what Matthew is saying I think that I mean eight votes 28 votes 40 100 you know 400 votes whatever it was it was voted down and we do run the risk you know when this goes back up for a vote May me maybe our information is now going to convince more people to vote against it but I did like it's sort of a mixture of what what you're saying rob I think I think there's a lot of concern I've heard from a lot of my neighbors and many other people um of the growth of the Town um in terms of we're just now we're building a new school we've got a big addition going on the taxes are going up and you know and there's no people are well what what I understand I was not I was not at the the town meeting but from what I understand there was not a lot of discussion or information on the longer term ramifications of if we build out so but I think I think giving them the three the three options of you know paper compliance half and half and you know and total compliance along with the ramifications you know short long-term Ram ramifications for each would be a good a good strategy so that's what but I just want to let you know that's that's what I know people that I'm I've been talking to have been saying is that there's a lot of you know we're not managing the growth of the town and if we do this it's just going to be you know more schools more congestion more everything so there's not unless we can explain that I think yeah we run the risk of of losing by even more if we put this back up for a vote sorry I'll over to Lucia I know her hand's raised Lucia go ahead um so my thought in terms of big picture is with the timeline I feel like we should push for a December meeting if that's like if we have any choice in terms of when it happens that gives us more time to get input from people to have conversations and see where we want to go from here and then that will also give us an idea of what's going on with Milton as well hopefully we know by then um whether they're successful or not and I think that would be helpful when it comes to a special town meeting about this particular topic I uh I think if we have a choice or any say with this the date the select board chooses I would propose December myself um so we will they'll know that that's that would be our preferred because this is a complicated topic to get as much input as possible uh Parker go ahead uh question if we have to redo the map please correct me if I'm wrong we had funding to help pay to make sure that we were in compliance so do we have to now pay out of pocket as a town for that maybe that's a question for John I don't think that's the case I think that uh the state basically verifies the uh like there's um John you could you could speak to this maybe better than I could if you have anything to add sure so the state paid for it wasn't really this was kind of the state kind of Quasi public organizations working with the state that paid for the technical assistance um Mass Housing Partnership being the main one um that was really more to like draft the bylaw and review the map um we created the map inh house not all towns have that ability but we do um it's really just changing that kind of stuff so in terms of getting a consultant on for compliance I don't know what the state would be offering for towns that are trying to do this a second time the the funding I think it's probably a funding pool that would then be dispersed amongst the towns that are um trying to do it again with certain priority levels I would guess if there's even any funding the um I honestly I don't even know if we would have enough time even if we were to go to Tomy in December to try and draft a new map or a new bylaw have a consultant review get back comments go back in court and then bring It Forward I think it really is going to be the uh zoning advisory committee or the planning board put together a proposal we try and have it reviewed by the state ahead of the town meeting if they even have that time to do that and then we just kind of move forward from there because we know generally what we're supposed to have in there our bylaw and map were both um confirmed by hlc and the AG's office that it would be compliant with no edits so that is kind of like the model um we would just have to tweak certain things and then ensure compliance on our own and I think that's the risk we have to accept is you know we've got a map that was heralded in in among leaders in the state and you know we talk about do we want to just be paper compliant or do we want to be you know fully uh in the spirit of the law to the fullest I think it's I think we've hit the middle and it's we're not going to be noncompliant and get the AA of and Wrath of the state which der risks potential adverse loss of you know funding for schools that if we don't have that you know ability to take advantage of these you know earmark funds that's that that runs a worth worse risk for you know for the town and what it could cost us moreover if we try and put forth a map that now is just being paper compliant and you know go back on our original proposal and effectively we thumbing the nose at the the the the fact of the law we risk you know getting the IR you know that way as well so it it feels to me that um you know we we should be sensitive to timelines but also um just just realize that we can't and don't necessarily have the resources and probably the state wouldn't want to put for us resources if they were realizing that we're going back on our original proposal anyway to something that is um Less in the spirit of law forworth but I'm talking too much thank you Parker uh vith go ahead thank you uh I mean just a benefit of the board out here I just want to reiterate uh the way this has happened the way Zach uh has reviewed this they made sure that the slots which they have taken across are well planned back thought process to make sure that uh couple of things one is that as there is misconception where I've been hearing from the town that you know what happens if once we reone it the state we have forced to build well uh no the Builder can't build it forcefully it everybody in that zoning has to uh sign off and ready to sell if even one person doesn't then you know it's difficult for that to build that particular property second the kind of an investment a builder would come in with this low Community Zone typically considering the Hopkinton land price uh any business person would think twice before they do that and because there's no backup or funding from the state for this and yes there is a risk I understand that how it was fighted that you know there'll be burden on the town resources like schooling traffic and everything those were taken into consideration and this was put across having said this I just want to say that you know if we are outreaching the people again we just have to maybe come up with some kind of FAQs or frequently asked questions put together and then publish it across that would be one way to go to convince them but that's that's all I want to say thanks ViaSat uh Elise go ahead thanks um I know this is like a huge what if but if the lawsuit with Milton and the state Milton yeah um come like if it happens to come back that like the state has no Authority would we just stop all of this at that point I believe we would okay because I mean I know we can't do nothing in the meantime but I almost wish we would know what was happening I think yeah I think um I think a lot of towns uh feel they're well it is the the state is trying to mandate this to every town that's the reality of the situation would we be talking about rezoning like for super dense housing if this was in various spots in town if we weren't being uh forced to I can't imagine we would be uh Matthew go ahead I mean I I I think the state's going to win on that but you know we'll wait to see but I agree that I don't think we'd be doing this otherwise but I think it's worth Zach to be thinking about regardless um like doesn't make sense to have dense zoning somewhere and just as part of their regular planning um of how do we evolve the town's planning and maybe the answer is there isn't a good spot for it maybe there's a spot where it would even if uh Milton uh or the the group that's arguing for Milton uh when's their case um but back to the the earlier question we talked a lot about Outreach and how do we try to convince people what do we do we have an like what's our thoughts on what the what we're going to ask of Zach are we going to ask them for different properties are going to ask them to explain or different lots are we going to ask them for to explain uh the the options they had before to bring back um as we do the Outreach like do we want to have those before we schedule any Outreach efforts again just conscious of the time and Zach's schedule I I don't know how much we can get and still have the Outreach and and what is our what is what we want to have to make a decision for the the town warrant those are all good questions I I don't readily have an answer to uh uh I think we um we will give as much input as we can to the zoning advisory committee that is I I think what we want to do whether that's specific Parcels whether that's and then to try to vet those or whether that's uh highle philosophy like uh I I mentioned paper compliance kind of a mix or or try to really find land that could be readily developed I think we need to decide what guidance we provide but the more I think the better from their perspective I think they'd like some guidance um vica go ahead uh I just just wanted to add that to what Ellis just mentioned that uh you know how the state so John maybe you can help me out to correct this but if the state is the state as Commonwealth of Massachusetts are coming or is the specific Boards of the states are coming to sue us like the affordable committee the housing board uh is that how they are suing us individually or as holistically uh that that part I wasn't clear uh that's a second followup question for me but John if you can answer that so I'm not 100% certain but I believe they're suing the town as whole because it would have been town meeting that didn't approve it m so it's not the board because the board doesn't have the authority to approve zoning bylaws it would be town meeting as a whole is when you say the state issuing is the state uh itself issuing or is it a part of the state boards like yeah is what I believe it's the AG's office AG's office okay yeah got it the Attorney General okay perfect thank you Michael go ahead yeah I was just going to put my uh support behind um basically two paths from uh the zoning advisory committee I think Matthew brought up a good point before the primary thing that we should be trying to do is you know get compliant with Mass General law so if we could have a path you know that was um I guess easier you know to pass at town meeting I me it's paper compliant I think that would be good for us to be aware of it and then also I think we should have an option that we can look at and vet in public forums which should be a little bit more um based on the Spirit of the law I think we should have both options available all right uh John I don't I don't know if we if I can do this because it's not posted as public comment but I'm seeing in the chat some people would like to comment is that okay if I uh gather some public comment uh yeah I mean it's up to the it's up to the board it's up to the chair it's not a public hearing so you don't have to take public comment but if the board wants to hear what the public in attendance has to say I think that's fine yeah uh Donald I see your hands raised uh thank you Mr gunson yeah so I I just wanted to comment as somebody who was engaged in participating in a number of the zoning advisory committee meetings and raised some concerns is a butter and I came away from that feeling that our concerns and the concerns of the affected property owners were dismissed and you know I think asking for input is great but if if that input isn't isn't incorporated or heard then it becomes a bit of a sham so and I I'm concerned here that I'm hearing an emphasis more on improving the the sales job rather than really trying to listen to the message that the community sent about this proposal and and really think about how do we come up with something that more more of the town's residents will be supportive of thank you thank you Donald through the chair uh are public commentors supposed to State their name and then oh yes uh Donald could you say your name and address my apologies yes uh Donald Jackson residing at for Lincoln Street in Hopkinson all right thank you um Michael go ahead yeah no I I was just going to add on to that you know I I think everybody here understands you know the concerns of people in the public um that were concerned about it I think you know that kind of you know should us into the direction of having multiple options I think you know the board itself if we were to poll everybody on whether they were in favor of it or against um the zoning Community things would be split as well likely um I think the biggest thing here is getting compliant with the state law while it's the state law so I think we kind of have to keep our eyes from that so uh let let me just make a couple comments and um we're going to be talking about Hopkins school edition uh coming up here so leading into town meeting uh I kind of went through I got some information about um what the town has spent on school related projects uh over the past 10 years leading into the charleswood school and the Hopkins Edition and in kind of debt overrides the town has spent an additional $200 million over the past 10 years uh for schools so this is I think some of the concern uh residents have about adding more housing in a any type of Rapid manner that we've spent as a community a lot of money and I I am totally in I'm of the mindset as a commun as a person living in Hopkin I want to support our schools in this in the school district and that's my choice so I I want to live in a town where I personally can do that um but it there's for many people there's a breaking point and I think there a lot of people are feeling that like their taxes are going up we're adding a lot of schools it's impacting them and and so I think that's part one is there's this immediate short-term desire not to like open up the potential for 750 new H uh dwelling units that could be built anytime soon like when you think about it that's as many dwelling units as Legacy Farms uh if you take way the age restricted of 55 plus that's as many dwelling units as that neighborhood and that is uh by and far are our largest uh I'd say what I would call a neighborhood in town so then then there's two other points and um I guess the other two points are do we as a board think this really is government overreach and would we be talking about it if uh if they didn't try to force us to do that do this and so that leads to okay so they they are forcing us to talk about it but do we think it's a good idea like would we now that they brought this to our attention do we think it's a good idea and that's what I think we need to answer ourselves like to open it up to high density housing above and beyond like we already have a few few Parcels in Hopkinton that have high density housing and we could we could go the route of our overlay district is on those couple of parcels that already exist with high what I would call high density housing and it becomes not financially viable to really uh replace um the development behind 110 Grill and there's another parcel in Legacy Farms that has super high dense housing uh where there's apartments and we could go that route but I think we as a board need to decide like or understand what the community wants from us I know we heard at town meeting like uh residents very concerned about their own individual properties being rezoned and what that how that would impact their lives and I very conscious of that that uh people don't want um they bought their most expensive investment in their life is probably their home and when you say like you're adding risk to that that's a very unnerving uh situation so I completely uh sympathize with that so we just need to be thoughtful of that fact that um and be able to articulate like why a particular property is in the district and why not um but that that that was kind of my comments I'll continue around here Matthew go ahead yeah I mean I agree being able to explain why some things in or out is is something that I think we need to do better um I I'm one of the things we didn't do right and one of the questions that got raised is like how many of those houses would be on carbon it's like the only section that has a short-term Horizon practically speaking that could be developed that we're talking about but even that isn't something that's going to happen in the next 6 to 12 months I mean the water's not even there yet um I I I so I guess I'm I'm kind of the concern about rapid growth is real but it's it's also not unique to this and with the properties that were selected I a lot of the arguments and this is why I think it's hard to respond to them a lot of the arguments didn't seem focused or even actually like stating like it was hard to respond to them because they're they're they're coming from a lot of different directions I I think John and people from the board have been in meetings where they've talked to this in smaller groups and I think we didn't do a good job of of anticipating and preparing for them at the at the the town meeting but I don't like I think the growth arguments that were presented on the handouts Etc were just overblown in terms of how quickly this would impact us and while they're real I there's growth going throughout the town as well people that have been living here for 30 years are selling their their properties and moving uh moving out new families are moving in and growing that way um there like even having some more high density properties could even be potentially be a benefit for people that are aging out want to sell their one acre lot and and still stay in town which is also something that we've heard I mean there's other benefits I don't think we've necessarily um raised or or or talked about and so I I don't know I I'm I'm concerned about trying to find something else that we haven't gone through with the options in this time frame I'm also hurt that people feel like we haven't been listening because I I I think we've taken all a lot of the feedback we've gotten I know John Parker members of the board have been talking to these people throughout last year um I don't mean to say these people as if they're separate but have been talking to people with objections or questions um throughout the year um and so I know there's been people that have had been very involved in trying to reach out to them and it it it's it's frustrating to hear that that people still feel like they weren't heard um thank you thank you Matthew uh Vias go ahead I just want to add to this going back to Zach while we can go back to Zach but however the open question still comes across whether we change from one area to another area as a zoning MBTA zoning committee the concerns would be the same so it's more to focusing on that how do we address the concerns is one thing which I want to look at it but practically it's been more beneficial for everybody as I personally as a private I'm against this because I understand the challenges of the Town resources and everything uh but on a broader scale the way it has been across as I mentioned right either you take what I give it or I sue you is how the the states coming which is not the way when the elected officials behave like this apologies for that but that's what it is so is there a way somebody can give us some cost benefit analysis kind of a thing as somebody stated in the chat also asking the same thing that you know what are we losing it what is the gain what would be the uh impact from financially so that might help most of the town to get an idea where we stand so leading leading into town meeting um I I talked to uh a woman in our grants uh Department about prior grants the state has uh Mass the town has received from the like Mass works and other funding agencies that would be at risk of losing and on like a a 10-year time Horizon it's it's very minimal it's like uh like if our town budget is 10 million I think what our town budget is like over a 10year period it equated to like 500,000 or less per year so it's like less than half of a percent of our town Budget on a year-by-year basis but I don't know that's I don't think that's the driver we should focus on I think we should focus on what I said before like I think we can come up with a plan if we if if the if we think as a board like we we don't really want to support high density like let's focus on a p a plan that meets P the paper compliance at least until we he like get any input from what's going on in Milton like I think that's the route to take as uh as a first step and if we still can't move forward well then we could F we could go uh a different direction but if if that's what the members of the board and the zoning advisory committee and in the town I think it's it's up to the the voters uh ultimately what they want but if that's what we hear I think that's the First Avenue go go ahead Karen myself thank you um I I just want to say I think yeah actually I completely agree with what you just finished saying is that you know if we went for the you know paper compliance I I think if we have in our mind you know what's the best thing for the town and yes there are a lot of growth things that are happening in the town does the town really need slash want this extra growth whether it's you know coming in you know that's going to you know the 700 what is it 750 units or whatever and then you know so do we do we as a town do the people in the town want this and then you know equally important are the the people in the zone if there's if there are you know or I know I heard something on The Preserve or whatever um do they want it right so let's let's you know work for our our constituents and you know those that are currently living in the town not a um hypothetical group that may be coming in when we rezone so but I I I agree with yours if we head for non-compliance you know I don't I don't think anybody's I don't think anybody's going to care and if get if we get forced into doing it then we'll we'll just step it up a notch and you know do what we can but have a obviously have a plan B there so I I think we kind of I don't think it's up to debate really that I think in general We Know The Preserve doesn't want their like you asked if The Preserve does I I think it's generally yeah that was pretty clear yeah that they they're not they don't want their property included in like we didn't poll every resident in that but in general I think the general belief of the residents of The Preserve don't want their property included uh Matthew go ahead um yeah so just looking at that it's a 54 minutes on this this topic and I'm just trying to summarize like what I think I'm hearing from the board so far is that one messaging is one important thing uh another uh but from Zach we probably want them to look at does high density makes sense going uh for the town as as an idea in general and a second ask of Zach is come back with a couple of options and explanations was that the other ask um are these what I know they looked at a couple different areas um do any of them still make sense or what what are the options I can bring back is that Rob what I'm hearing I was thinking um there was also the part of more community outreach but I was thinking almost um we C we we had a lot of discussion about how to pull certain things off how to do certain things how to gather more input how to improve messaging how to decide what Parcels to include like I was almost thinking if we put this on our agenda for next our next meeting and everybody on the board comes with tactical Solutions how to how to accomplish these things or and I can have some and any one of us can have a conversation with John to figure out if we can tactically do things better or different that comes that leads to a better outcome because some of the things we discussed sound really great I just don't know how to tactically do them um in in the short term and I I we're we're kind of at time for this part of our discussion but that's what I was thinking is uh I don't know how that sounds to anybody when's theact meeting is there something that we should ask them to do beforehand or will we meet before them John do you know when the Z next Zack meeting is I don't I don't know off the top of my head uh I'm looking it up I think they may have waited to schedule it to find out what the direction from the board is look it up see if I can find one uh it's not scheduled John you're right we were waiting for the planning board to come back based on that we will schedule the followup meeting so I think if we have our next meeting on the 17th and uh if they have a meeting right after that uh I I think that will give us time like we we want to be more prescriptive of uh what we think the best uh path forward is but I don't think I don't I know I wouldn't be supportive of just resurfacing the same plan it got rejected once that's not that's not listening to the will of the town meeting um that's not what I want to do so I think we need to propose a plan and be able to um articulate why we chose it and just resurfacing one that was rejected or us again doesn't isn't uh something I'm interested in um but I think that's our next best step is to try to tactically figure out how to get some of these things accomplished we just talked about for an hour uh and come with concrete ways we can achieve um better better definition of how we select Parcels the parcels we're going to select um Gathering more input messaging of of why we pick these Parcels um under understanding from the community if if there's any interest in high density housing like no personally nobody to me has has has talked to me and said oh that sounds like a great thing everybody that's talk to me is why is the state trying to force us to do this and I like I think if everybody says that well that that's pretty telling um so we still want to be in compliance because we don't want to get sued and we want to continue getting grants but how do we do that with without uh in the best best uh scenario for the town that it doesn't cause frustration um outcomes that we don't want but unless there's any last minute uh discussion I'm gonna I'm going to move on to our next agenda item all right that was uh that was a really good discussion and if one last thing before um there's a website uh MBT communities. Boston indicators. org uh back SL tracker dmap back slash that kind of gives uh an overview of what's happening in the various communities that need to comply with the MBTA communities bylaw so um for anybody could you say one more time please I'll put it in the chat for uh so anyone that's interested you could follow along at least to some degree with what's going on in other communities I find it uh I found it interesting to find um so let's move on to agenda item number two or yeah uh Terry Terry are you on Carrie Reid she's her camera went on but it's black hello good how you Patrick good uh Eric Eric Eric you're not on mute Eric you're uh um if it pleases the board um I'm this is Peter barosi I'm with VHB um I I believe this is uh I'm here on behalf of K Reid as well to present this project um for the Chestnut Street sidewalk I'm assuming no Peter we're we're on the one before it the oh I'm sorry Legacy Farms North Wilson Street drainage okay but if kri if krie can't come through we'll we'll skip uh Rob this is this is Roy McDow um Peter beamus who was on this call who works with the trails and I met with Carrie earlier this morning and we walked the entire length of that section of Wilson Street and if if krie is not here maybe Peter could explain the conversation we had with krie good evening board members I I am in attendance U so it's Peter P beus engineering design can you hear me hi Peter yeah go ahead go ahead yeah so so so uh so I know Carrie had prepared a memo that was dated May 7th that we did receive recently and asked to attend this meeting um you know during the site visit um there's a general consensus from the trails that there are some erosion control problems on the road um the way the letters drafted implies that we've created some new point source to the road but we've not um the board may recall that back in 23 you did approve um a relocation of a what was going to be a pipe discharge directly to Wilson Street from our cross country drainage system this is passed through water uh we eliminated that pass through water from direct discharge to the street and we put it in infiltrative Basin this was north of rad e so that was one modification that the 23 board would have approved um and that Basin is working however um with storms that would I'd say exceed 4 in maybe 5 in uh depending on when it occurs because if the basin's empty then it has a greater infiltration capacity but when it uh exceeds that amount then it will overflow um and then that water does enter the street system like it was originally intended to do and becomes part of the gutter flow that's there the uh the other two locations that there are discharges that are approved from the project is is the central location of Western Street Western Lane excuse me um and that was again Overland flow um so was passed through flow there's there's no detention um but we did put some infiltration systems in and that does pass through goes into a channel that goes through DCR land and comes out onto um Wilson Street and that Tu uh co- mingles with the gutter flow that's on Wilson Street and continues down to the treatment plan and those are the only two uh sources of water that are discharged from Trails um which is passed through water into that network of storm water onto um what I call Weston Wilson Street uh to the treatment plant uh entrance driveway in ashin and those are both approved locations uh so it's a combination of the flow from the project site and a combination of the uh Street flow because there is gutter flow that's just flowing along Wilson street from its beginning point up at U Legacy Farm Road uh and and just continues down the road so there's a tremendous amount of surface water that's just carrying forward and not coming off the road bed um so we we agree with that we see it uh we would like to be part of the solution uh but we don't want to be characterized as being the only part of the problem that's the only thing that I want as a takeaway this evening is that we're willing to be participants we want to help um but I don't see us as being the the sole responsibility for uh the project or the water that's there and then the last piece was that we have three detention basins um one is a wetland Basin that was approved at the Terminus of burkdale um there's another one at the Terminus of Western Lane uh all those Waters now discharge easterly they go into existing stream channels those stream channels go through Wilson Street at the Terminus of Wilson at how so we're right on the municipal boundary uh this is located uh east of the treatment plant driveway and east of the Lagoon driveway so for those of you that know Wilson Street it continues all the way to that point um and then that is a area where we are doing some additional improvements again this board uh in 23 uh that make up approved modifications to the trails storm water basin at Basin 3 and at Basin uh excuse me Basin one and Basin 3 and phase four um and those discharges go through that box Culvert um which is a stone Culvert so all three of those locations are where we cross uh Wilson Street and or house Street and they are all approved locations so this is um not something that's just going off the site un unmitigated and we actually added a lot of additional mitigation systems um to our uh improvements so that's all I would like to say is that we we're here tonight to say that we want to be part of the solution um we're willing to to participate in that and we'll come forward uh Carrie was looking for some immediate uh response uh plans and and I will prepare some be glad to discuss those further when we have them prepared thank you Rob you're muted thank you Mr beus Carrie I can see you now or would you like to uh we we got a copy of the letter in our uh meeting packet but uh what would you like to see happen here as the next step I guess is or any information you'd like to provide I through the chair sorry about that um I listen the whole MBTA conversation and then my computer froze up on me just when I was trying um so you saw the letter that we prepared for you and you know it's of the dpw's opinion that a lot of the damage that we're seeing on the road is caused by runoff from the Trails um so we were looking for immediate repairs because we just don't think it's right to have the public pay for the repairs um so we're looking for immediate repairs for this problem and then we're looking for the developer um to work through the planning board as part of the permit to you know look at potential mitigation or storm water improvements because of the you know significant amount of runoff that's coming off the property yeah this is uh uh from my understanding this is not a new problem this has been a kind of a storm water runoff problem for quite some time and while it why it's uh coming to the board is that there hasn't been a really a mutually agreed upon plan uh up till now so it's looking for the planning board to intervene and and try to um make things happen um John do do you have any comment here on on this situation uh in terms of what I think DPW has identified the problem um we've figured out that it's mostly or we understand it's primarily the trails U obviously some other sources um there's any specific comments or questions you want me to answer I'm happy to do so I don't know what general comments would be I it's just uh I can't think of an uh a recent situation where something like this has come before the planning board um so so if we want to if we wanted to I think fundamentally we want to agree with carer's recommendation to try to uh Force action um so what would be our next step to to make that happen so the board uh could raise could vote to raise the bond right now the bond is $75,000 which is not enough to cover the work to to be done so um the the board could vote to raise the bond to an amount that would be sufficient to to have the town perform the work in case the applicant and developer doesn't perform the work they've the the developer has indicated that they are willing to do some of the work I don't know if they're willing to do all the work that's recommended by DPW um but I think just an identification of what work needs to be done who's going to be responsible for it would be a good start for the planning board to then make a determination as to what the next steps are whether it's raising the bond amount or um taking some other enforcement action through the zoning enforcement official um those types of things so car Carrie from your perspective this is a problem that emanates from the trails development yes is there any comments or questions from the board I I don't think we have I I think we as John said we have a few different options to try to force uh corrective action um it's great that uh the trails uh is willing to work with the town to correct these but I think the the DPW is looking for some enforceable uh action from the planning board to help address this as quickly as possible so any question Michael yeah I just want to know if we had a number um yet from DPW I guess for anybody else for um the the recommendation is to increase the bond from 75,000 to 300,000 got through the chair yep how's the point I mean the increase in the bond would just be to repair the damage that was done I think what we also discussed is that the amount of runoff that's now being discharged into the Wilson um Street drainage is above what it can H can handle um so that cost doesn't include what may be needed in terms of enhancing the road and the drainage um to be able to handle this increased volume okay go ahead that's that's here and where the problem is Mr chairman is that we we've not changed any of the formula here these these were approved uh locations that were already vetted and and they but we've not done anything different um so that that's all that's all I'm saying is we just got this letter it was dated May 7th we just got it and when we were at the site visit apparently there was some discussions earlier with conservation we weren't even aware of so so it it it's not like we're turning a blind eye at this we are open to participating we would like to have engagement but this is the initial start of Engagement and and we were not even involved in generating any of these numbers so through the chair uh respect to the applicant uh this has been in you know local news uh within the last like year so uh I categorically question the efficacy of that statement but that said Carrie should we be looking at this in the two stage approach then the first immediate mitigation uh and Remediation efforts and then for a long-term plan is that your you know recomend ation as had of D DPW just so I'm understanding this correctly through the chair y so that's it yes I see it as two- part you know one is repairing the damage that has already been done um and that's kind of what we're pushing at because it's coming to a point where we'll need repairs soon so if it doesn't get done by the developer it'll have to get done by the town and then um the second part which was a recommendation um which I think the planning board has the authority to do would be asked for mitigation in some sort um or some improvement again uh if it doesn't get done by the developer eventually the town will have to take on responsibility for that because as we stated the the road can't handle the drainage that it has through through the shair does DPW have a recommendation for a immediate time Horizon that this should or must be done to mitigate any sort of criticality with the the RO in its current form I guess you could say like the soonest this needs to be done and the latest that it should be done that was part of the discussion um from the site walk today uh I wanted to see what kind of feedback we could get you know if the developer was um willing to make the repairs and then how quickly they could respond I think in the initial letter we were looking for a response within 30 days um you know a lot of times when we do repair it'll be quicker than that but certainly sooner than better I mean we're looking for plan we discussed um some repairs for removing the damaged Edge Road and the shoulder and restabilizing it okay so then should we maybe uh through the chair Robert should we maybe take action to allow the applicant to take under consideration the site lalk given it was today that what they are going to own in terms of the immediate next steps and give them a month window um um to respond and after we can evaluate if we need to take more punitive measures like increasing the bond to account for uh not only what it would cost for the town to incur to improve the road from a risk perspective but also to improve the drainage maybe that's a reasonable Next Step as Peter said he wants to work with us we can give him that chance Carrie when when when uh when did conversations start like actual back and forth conversations to get this uh the this problem addressed with uh the trails development so you I'm a for member of the Conservation Commission so there's been you know several years of discussion this this iter this this iteration of it this uh like where it's got to a Breaking Point uh version I guess um I started the conversation with staff probably last April um and we got to the point of you know putting it on paper um in May so we're trying to last April of 2023 yeah that's it no I'm sorry you're right September September of 2023 n right so I was out there like last fall been watching it been talking with the conservation agent and their inspectors been reaching out to John talk about you know third party and what other things have been going on looking at um the drainage for Legacy Farms North and um the highway Department's continuously gone out there but so uh Mr beus when when when do you feel you were made aware or or um the trails development when do you feel you were made aware of this issue and that it's kind of hit a Breaking Point unmute yourself pardon me I I I kept muted so I'm sorry um I believe it was um two weeks ago when John sent the May 7th letter so we were invited to come to tonight's meeting and then there was Outreach to to me down site this uh this morning uh that came to me on Friday so um I'm trying to respond as quickly as possible so I think do the right thing I think what Parker recommended makes if that's the the real scenario of the timeline and you've only known for two weeks I think the next I I tend to agree with Parker to try to give uh you uh four weeks to our I don't I think our next well it's probably not July I don't know when our next meeting is but not the next meeting but the meeting after that uh I think you and our director of DPW krie Reid need to you guys uh hopefully you can come up to a plan that you're willing to uh accomplish that she's in agreement with and we don't have to have follow on conversations at our planning board meetings other than everything's going great so that's what hopeful um but uh John do you know the next meeting if we we probably have I think we have one on the 17th and the one after that is right around July 4th so I don't know if we have one that week or not so it's June 17th and then July 1 all right July 1 so I am I think the entirety of the board would like uh an agreed upon plan by July 1 between you guys and our director of DPW K Reid and how you going to resolve this issue that uh she agrees that is a viable workable plan otherwise we we'll take we'll take action to increase the bond and um take whatever action is necessary to Force action as best we can good time thank you Mr beus all right Carrie you're on you're on uh you're on our agenda again for uh Chestnut Street sidewalks all right so thanks everyone um Chestnut Street sidewalk was a project that was approved at the 2023 annual town meeting it was sponsored by the planning board um we hired VHB to help us with the design and um we want to come with a little bit of an update um about what we can do with the scope within the budget and um a few of the options that we looked at and just kind of since the planning board was the sponsor of the project we wanted to kind of get you guys a little bit of update and get some feedback and I will turn it over to Peter from VHB if that's okay with you that sounds great thank you Carrie um if it's all right through the board I'd like to share my screen so I can kind of just present to get started is that okay it's okay with me okay I think I think John just needs to give you that privilege I'll should be all set okay great okay all right so just a just to provide a quick overview here so this is just a locust map we put together um just kind of showing an bird's eye view of the area in question so here's Chestnut Street hayen row um the elementary school up here wild Road getting a little bit closer so when we first took a look at the area and we were in initial discussions with the town and um getting our scope put together we started like kind of the biggest decision to come up was essentially which side of the road we wanted to put the sidewalk on because we're only putting the sidewalk on one side of the road um and that as what was approved and what the money that was available so that was the first step um in our design process so when we kind of took a more holistic approach we were looking at the corridor kind of looking at the grading on either side um looking at uh features such as these Wetlands here on either side here we have Beaver Brook with a culvert Crossing going underneath the road um just looking at at it looking at the utility polls um we have uh Grady Way and McKay right here so um after looking at it we had decided that we thought that the the best approach would be to put the sidewalk on the southern side of the road here so that's essentially the the approach that we took so um we ran with that you can kind of see a rough sketch here of the cross-section um so then once we decided that we proceeded with um kind of the next larger level design decision was um you know where we were going to put the curb line um again looking at these Wetlands here you know we we VHB were a little concerned about um getting close to these Wetlands um and impacting those those buffer zones and potentially direct impacts to the wetlands area so obviously we knew we had to get uh include the Conservation Commission um and everything so uh we took an initial approach where we would shift the the existing curb line in about two feet from the um where it is now um so essentially something that we call like you know colloquially called the road diet um and we you know we put together a design for that um we presented it to both Carrie and Dave Torio the town engineer um we received some feedback from them that they were a little concerned about um just experiences that they've had with Main Street um and some safety concerns about um having a smaller shoulder so that would reduce the shoulder from the existing 4 feet um down to 2 feet so they get a little bit closer to moving traffic this is a pretty highspeed Road um we have a design speed of 40 miles an hour um and it carries a fair amount of traffic on it as well um so both Carrie and Dave expressed a desire that they would prefer um to keep maintain the existing uh curb line um and through those discussions as well um and knowing that we would have to go in front of the Conservation Commission um we uh got in touch with the conservation agent and developed a couple Al different Alternatives um to present to them one of them being the initial Concepts that we put together so Shifting the curb line in two feet um which had uh reduced Wetland impacts one with the existing curb line essentially being maintained with like with potentially a little bit more impacts but things that can be managed and then finally um it was expressed to us as well that the commission has a tendency to prefer um providing HMA burm um so everywhere throughout this process we initially ran with a vertical Granite curb so you can see here um as part of the side of the sidewalk um you know we we prefer that in in terms of safety especially if the the sidewalk is going to be directly AB buding the road um but that we were informed that the commission prefers uh has a tendency to prefer burm uh particularly around l so that small Critters and animals uh can safely cross the road if they desire and get to the other side um but unfortunately if we did provide the burm um there we have direct design guidance um from Mass doot and such that the sidewalk we need to be offset uh significantly about 5T from the edge of road so um while uh the W Critters can get across um the the sidewalk would have to be further separated and then those Wetland impacts went through the roof um we presented those Concepts uh to the Conservation Commission and his informal discussion we will plan we are planning on a proceeding with an noi with them um but we wanted to get some initial feedback some thoughts from them um we met with them on I believe it was May 21st um ran those Concepts in front of them um got some good feedback and uh they um agreed that they felt that the sidewalk um with maintaining the existing curb line with a vertical Granite curve provided the the best balance of of everything so um separately from that we also looked at um I'll go back to Locus map here we did look at continuing the sidewalk all the way to Hayden row Route 85 again when we were in the initial scoping process um we didn't exactly know what a bet good Terminus spot would be so we looked at extending it to Hayden row um currently at Hayden row it is a signalized intersection um and uh in order to safely accommodate pedestrians bringing them bringing a you know ADA compliance sidewalk there we would also need to um modify that signal provide new pedestrian signal heads um uh pedestrian curb ramps um and uh adjust the timing of the signal as well which was something that wasn't inti really in our scope at the beginning um on top of that uh Carrie informed us of a um a covert study being performed by Titan Bond um they are analyzing the the cul there's a cul here for Beaver Brooke um there's another one it's lightly shown here um just before Smith Road um they they were both deemed to be uh deficient by that report um and uh in need of replacement um and so uh we deemed it that it if we wanted to put the sidewalk on top of CT it would eventually need to get ripped up as uh replacing those coverts are not within the budget or the scope of it so with all of that in mind um we decided that the best place to terminate the sidewalk um was at Wild Road um right here um so do a mid block Crossing with the add a benefit that there is a a sidewalk on the Northern side of the road already there existing a cement concrete sidewalk up there um what we are planning on doing is I can share here something what it would look like so we would do a mid block Crossing um there and uh provide uh uh for for safe passes usually for like mid block Crossings on high-speed roads with fair amount of traffic we prefer to provide something known as rectangular rapid flashing beacons R rfbs I have a I should have a picture here here we go this is generally what they look like so we would put those on either side um they can be either solar paneled or direct electrical connection we have to kind of do our own analysis to determine which one would be better depending on the sunlight that's available um but these design plans that I have here these are rough at the moment but they just generally show um everything as to to where we currently are um uh with everything so so we have the sidewalk going on the southern side of the road being crossed at Wild Road and running continuous um all the way to Smith Road um I believe in in discussions with carrye um not knowing how much money is available we'll as we advance the design and we get our estimate more tightened down um we may um decide to bid as an add alternative um going in between uh Gibbon or so we would run the sidewalk to between wild Road and Given Road right here and then maybe bid is an add alternative uh the Run between Gibbon and Smith and see how much if if um that could work within within the money that has been allocated um I think let me check my notes here but I think that was pretty much it so that's essentially where we stand I can quickly run through these plans here um so this just the beginning so again sharing a rough cross-section of what we're looking at um I know Carrie's mentioned to us too sometimes in other areas I know we like for projects like Main Street where it's a more main downtown we they do the cement concrete sidewalk um we can easily change that to an H sidewalk we I do know that that would probably be a bit cheaper um if we wanted to extend the length of it um but may if if the planning board or other people may feel otherwise that they rather have a subit concrete sidewalk we can go with that as well what what is excuse me what is HMA hot makx asphalt okay so so yeah just that's uh just an asphalt surface um so here's a rough cross-section of what we're looking at here and then this is just a rough uh engineering plan sketches of what the sidewalk would look like with the crossings here so I'll run down here this dash line is just a rough uh limit of grading so just where the the projected side slope of um off the edge of the new sidewalk would would end up Landing here um so just impacting a couple driveways here but pretty straightforward essentially again maintaining that this line here would be the um shoulder line here so 4ft shoulder 11t travel Lanes um all pretty standard provide a crossing a protected uh crosswalk Crossing across Given Road um with the stop stop sign um and then continue it down uh we we anticipate needing a um guard rail along this stretch here just uh because we have some pretty steep grading here and um if a car were to potentially go over so we recommend putting a guardrail here as well and then ending it at Smith Road um so we just kind of wanted yeah as Carrie mentioned we wanted to just kind of present that this being a planning board sponsored project we just kind of wanted to share how we got to where we are right now and if anybody has any questions or concerns or um yeah to provide any any feedback for us and things that they might want to we might want us to incorporate into the design I I uh a question did you I assume you did an analysis of the additional cost it would if you brought the sidewalk all the way to uh is 85 and what how it have to impact the traffic lights and everything I assume you did some analysis of like it would add this much money or something that effect yes so we did have a rough estimate of something like that put together yes and that's what came to this where that's just too financially prohibitive with the money allocated so the crossing the street here was the better alternative to it was it was a little bit of that but also with with the Culvert as well um being being in um as rough shape as it is and it it it sounded like you know obviously the that that is a much larger scale and scope project and um we didn't want to put a sidewalk over a covert that would have to get ripped up once the covert would be redone okay so it was a little bit of both so it was it was that it was that cost of that and in addition to the the covert as well any comments or questions from the planning board I have a question through the chair uh go ahead um if you guys um for the sidewalk options um for the poured cement would that be with a granite curbing or what kind of curb would it be that would be with the with the granite curbing okay thank you so we would do the granite Curbing and there would be a a six-inch reveal from the from the from the ground which is our a gen uh the standard great thank you you you're welcome to the chair uh Lucia go ahead um I think the only thing I would want to say is as long as it's within the budget that's been approved I think right now given everything that's going on in town that should be the number one um issue but it looks like they've taken a lot of time and they have options if they want to extend it or not depending on how much it costs um so I think it looks great thank you Lucia Michael go ahead yeah uh yeah I just had a question along the lines that Lucia just brought up to um so yeah I'm obviously very in favor of sidewalks um what's the cost difference I guess I want to know between um the mounted asphalt Edge and the um concrete and so do you mean the the the edge is in like the burm or the you need the uh I so the way I understood curb versus the the Michael you're asking about just the surface of the sidewalk or the the granite curb versus like cap BM yeah the Cur cap BM yeah that's what I thought the the choice so yeah I I don't have those that number directly in front of me right now I do know it's it potentially is a um it could be something like $100,000 difference between the surfaces Goa okay but the granite carb still in the scope correct correct can you guys hear me okay yes all right you froze for a second sorry about that um all right uh I appreciate the update the only uh one thing I would was curious is what is the overall timeline of like from here where we are now to actually uh the project starting development completion is there is there like a big picture timeline uh in terms of that so we're we're shooting to um be on the Conservation Commission meeting we're trying to submit our noi uh to get it in um I know we're we're shooting for the 26th um I know that's their submission date um to get on the next Conservation Commission meeting um and then after that after we get approval final design is is uh shortly thereafter um and I I think after that and we could probably advertise it um let's see here so we're looking at um we get that we get through July probably advertise it by the um yeah I think we're shooting advertise by this fall yeah 's M what what does that lead to an end date of like when uh people will be able to walk on a sidewalk through the chair I will say that our goal is to finish the design um this season get it out to bid but we wouldn't likely construct it until next construction season which would be um April May earliest next year okay so best case scenario it's in place by the end of this uh end of next School season yes Bas best case scenario um I will also point out that we did apply um with vhp's help for a shared streets Grant from Mass doot um hoping to get some additional funding to help with this project we haven't heard back yet they haven't um announced the awards but we'll continue to look for alternative funding from Grants as we can to kind of um help out with this project terrific terrific this will uh be significant Improvement give complete pedestrian connectivity to the schools from um that uh the Smith Road neighborhood uh I think it would be really uh a great thing for the town I'm gonna move on to the next agenda item unless anyone has any uh additional comments all right thanks Carrie thanks Peter thank you so uh I guess I'll save the minutes uh I do we want let's go let's just quickly go through through the minutes uh does anyone have any comments about the uh meeting minutes for May 13th looked good and because uh Karen and Lucia were not board members do they not vote for this John no they can still vote for it okay all right so I'd like to entertain uh a motion to approve the minutes from the May 13 2024 planning board meeting we moved all right great uh I just going to go through the roll call vote here Elise MOSI yes uh luciao Lopez yes Matthew Ranka yes Michael King yes Parker hap yes Jane Moran yes Karen Wills yes vicaso prti yes and Rob Benson is yes all right we're on to the Hopkins school edition 90 and 104 Hayden row go ahead John uh there was the anr endorsement authorization oh I missed that where second one first one after the board oh that's right uh I I was so in favor of this I I guess I just assumed it was a foregone conclusion um but this is so we have a history of bad habits uh when we were proven Aon uh for the new members of the board we have this process of uh basically looking at project uh new houses being built that uh are considered approval not required so they don't need an approval from the planning board but developers still present the project to the planning board just to um I don't know General awareness and uh but we don't have to formally approve it so these projects are called anr approval not required in anyways we sign a a form after the after they've been presented that we acknowledge they've been presented and approval is not required for that uh house or that's going to I think Rob froze again yeah we lost him can take over your first official act man um sure I'll step in while he's Frozen like a cartoon character um there he is I don't know what I don't know what just happened uh but this this is to give uh John proxy ability to sign uh these anr uh plans on our behalf does anyone so that's what we we would like to do so does anyone have um question yeah go ahead Karen sorry thank you um so whether the building project I guess whether it's a house or development I'm not sure what the scope of it is is gets an anr or not I mean are they just all are they just all an anrs since Rob's Frozen um can you can you guys hear me again yes I can hear you did you hear my question I did not hear your question but who who gets an an anr um maybe it's just best to let John explain briefly since br's freezing that would be great thank you so through the chair anrs are a um essentially a subdivision process uh a state process of a sub subdivision of land it's not necessarily for development um but any time that a lot is subdivided and that lot or each resulting lot has the required Frontage and lot area under the local zoning it qualifies for anr and approval not because it's not an actual subdivision plan subdivision plans really should be renamed road construction plans because that's what they are um this is essentially subdividing land that already has Road Frontage on it and so it's a much uh simpler process and it doesn't even have to be for development sometimes this happens when Property Owners swap land or change lot lines uh there's a separate process called an 81x plan where they don't have to go to the planning board and they can just go to the registry but a lot of them still come to the planning board just to kind of complete the process uh so what what you will usually happen is we'll get a plan showing the change of lot lines the subdivision of the land or the sectioning off of one parcel or several Parcels um and then I review it for compliance with the anr requirements whether it has lot Frontage or um Street Frontage or lot and lot area uh setbacks don't matter a lot of the dimensionals don't matter because it's not a proposal for development it's just a proposal for the law property lines yeah and then this would allow so there's no hearing process needed this would allow the planning board to vote to endorse the plan and then assign me as the signatory on the plan on behalf of the planning board so that all of you don't have to come into the office to sign it yes so in the past we'd have to go in and a majority of us would have to sign it uh there'd be little nasty emails saying hey we still need four of you to sign this um this saves us not nasty they were encouraging encouraging well thank you John I appreciate the explanation so all right so do I have to nominate John to sign our R inrs so yes so this has to be renewed on an annual basis or or something along that timeline we decided to do Nom there's a that which hopefully Rob has written so Rob if you want to go back and and write them read the motion as R uh sure I am I'm so sorry I don't know what's going on I got Gremlins in my uh all of a sudden today so I'd like to entertain a motion or uh at the planning board uh upon any vote by the board to endorse approval not required plans authorized John guch principal planner of the town of Hopkin to endorse said approval not required plans on behalf of the planning board so moved second great thanks guys uh I'm going to go through the roll call vote uh Alise meowski yes uh luciao Lopez yes Matthew Rona yes Michael King Parker hap yes Jane Moran yes Karen Wills yes vicaso pry yes and Rob Benson is yes all right now we're on to Hopkins school uh renovation I don't think we ever uh we just continued the convers uh the discussion from last time so I don't think we need to open it or do anything um the last at the end of our last uh discussion about the Hopkins school renovation it was could be tedious um Rob what if you try turning your camera on I I I don't think he can hear us either as part of the problem um he was in the middle of a thought so I don't exactly want to jump in but there he is okay we're going to we're going to keep trying here uh so who's on from tyin Bond that's me uh Jean chrisy principal engineer with tyan Bond hi Jean how are you I'm fine how are you so I think our next step here give him another minute and discussed it with us as a a little bit but we hadn't had much time to review the letter so I was hoping to get your perspective uh of where things stand sure um so a few weeks ago we received the original um application package for our peer review we reviewed both from an engineering um you know site plan storm water perspective as well as the traffic study uh we met with um the applicant engineer two and a half weeks ago I think Steve um um where we went through specifically the engineering and storm water uh comments at length we went through each of them in depth kind of came up with an a way that we're going to um work through our comment that works with the the development um so I think from a civil engineering storm water standpoint we're on a pretty good track to have a clean letter back to the board later this week hopefully by the end of the week um the more challenging piece was the storm was the traffic report um if you call I think the original traffic submitt was more of an abbreviated memo versus a full traffic study we have received the full traffic study and are going to you know work over the next week to um finish review of that make sure everything that you know we had asked for in in our original letter was address um and see if there's anything else in the meantime that we need to connect with the applicant on um to to resolve in advance of your next hearing okay so there's still um more work to do is is what uh my I got out of that yeah there there's I at this point because we went through each of the engineering and storm water comments I'm really confident about those uh that that's not going to be an issue um I can't say anything about the traffic at this point though all right um I guess I'm looking for uh John maybe some of your input on on where do you think what um I was hoping we um there'd be an agreed kind of the the applicant and our peer review consultant would have been um to an agreed upon point in place in time at at this meeting but because they're not what do you think is a reasonable objective for this discussion so um as time Bon said the the engineering is pretty much reviewed and um Jean tell me if I'm wrong but I think we can expect the clean letter by the end of the week on that portion uh the intent is to get the traffic reviewed ahead of the next meeting and hopefully everything will be resolved by then so uh I think it's really just if we want to talk about updates or if there's anything that the applicant or the engineer want to bring up to the planning board to discuss um and kind of hash that out now if there's anything that needs to be hashed out by the planning board outside of the engineer peer review process process I think that would be worthwhile otherwise um I don't think there's really much that we need to fill time at this point Matthew I think Rob froze yeah um I see Steve uh anybody from the project uh have any comments or anything any notes to add while we're here um so I'll just add he Steve po semiot consultants for the project Engineers um I I will add um and just Echo what what jean said we had a pretty um comprehensive discussion going through each of the comments um we addressed each of them and I believe um the ones that were a little bit more um complicated I I think between uh Gan in our office we we found common ground to do that so it sounds like that's moving ahead uh the traffic impact the full traffic impact study was submitted as well as Jean said they're they're in the process of reviewing that um the the the plans themselves stayed relatively the same especially from a site layout perspective outside of the comments tyan Bond had um storm water we made some some changes based on tyan Bond's uh comments about modeling the entire site uh so we did we did go through that and made a few changes to the underground infiltration system supplied additional storm water quality structures um to to accommodate uh TSS removal uh and and and just in general storm water quality measures just to bring it up to uh town code as well so um I I think that that was it I didn't know if we um there was I guess the last part I'm not sure whether it's I should address it or I think I saw the OPM on it was really the the the zoning items we discussed last time in depth um we did put together a letter and by we I mean the the project attorney put together a letter to send to uh to the buing code enforcement officer uh Chuck and and we did um get a response from him so I'm not sure if the planning board is satisfied with the responses the building uh commissioner had put forward um with respect to you know non-existing sorry uh non-complying pre-existing conditions things like that so um and then I can take that one sure sure can I can I John do we have that in our meeting materials I didn't um I don't think I've seen the letter from Chuck yes we we haven't seen it so this would be breaking news so just want to make you aware so as part of the um the discussion um last time we discussed the lack of Frontage the um Wetlands protection overlay District where we exceeded impervious area potentially leading to a special permit and the lack of a 50ft buffer at the perimeter of the um site we also discussed the overall height of the gymnasium portion of the building and the general consensus that was shared with us from um I think John was that um all of those were issues for the zoning enforcement officer which our understanding is the zoning enforcement officer is Chuck cadin excuse me Chuck Cadet um we did uh send a letter from Town Council um to Mr kadlick and he endorsed in an email response that he agreed that the Dober Amendment does apply to the lack of Frontage the wetlands protection overlay District in perious areas and the lack of a 50-foot buffer um so he viewed all of those three issues as resolved additionally we reached out after receed of that email regarding the overall height of the gymnasium the architect noted that the height of the existing gymnasium is 37 fo5 a half and ours was currently at 36 fo4 and Town Council felt that um given that we had previously gone to the board of appeals for the charleswood project and um in September of last year and they voted that they believed that the Dober Amendment applied to height um for educational uses and the um Town Council also replied to that email that they concurred that um the Dober amendment should apply to height in this case and we are just waiting to hear back from um Mr kadlick that he agrees with that position okay that sounds um it's good to know that uh a lot of that discussion um is resolved uh from last meeting uh and the right process was uh followed so uh as everyone knows I was having some internet connectivity issues so uh John what do you um I'm not sure where to go in this discussion for this session next so um the engineering as as we had talked about is pretty much done traffic is on its way to being done we hope to have a clean letter by the next meeting so it's really just to address any questions that the board may have ahead of that hoping for junee 17th to be the the meeting that um the board makes the decision because all the engineering has been reviewed and and conforms with what the board is looking for it to conform to um so if I guess there's any other issues that the developer or the applicant has that want they want to bring up to the board or any questions that the board has or the peer review consultant I think this would be an appropriate time to discuss that otherwise I don't really think there's a need to continue a conversation just to continue a conversation and through the chair there were three other items that the committee brought up last time that we wanted to update you on excellent thank thanks Christopher um the committee had asked why we did not allow two-way traffic on the bridge or consider that option in researching that issue it appears that one-way traffic on that bridge was a condition of the original Mass D approval that led to the construction of that bridge so that's not an Avenue that we can pursue um the committee had asked us to look at Granite curbing um the cost and we did get a cost for that um in sharing the cost with the um the school committee team um they did not believe that they wanted to pursue Granite curbing in L of concrete curbing at this time given many of the other budget considerations that we were looking at um and additionally the only other one I didn't mention is the committee had asked us to look at um preserving the CPC funded Pavilion uh the project team is looking at what the cost to do so would be um and what opportunities to relocate it would um be available um and so the committee is looking at the possibility of doing that but we would like to have the flexibility to commit to that if costs allowed through the chair I don't believe that we asked for it to be preserved it was it's preserved or if a pavilion of likes and size and you know like this could be maintained if it wasn't cost prohibitive to maintain it uh so it doesn't have to be the same one it could be something that new if it's a more cost neutral um Rob I don't I don't know if it's actually within the prview of of what we're discussing but I my recollection was it was mentioned a town meeting that it's actually there's some ownership or sponsorship of a different uh different organization in town for that which is I think is was part part of the concern but I don't know if that's relevant to the discussion at hand if my memory serves uh somebody some some group some organization donated that to be placed there at the school for uh to benefit I don't know the playground area I I don't exactly know the backstory but uh the group that donated it uh was hoping it could be preserved in some I maybe preserved the wrong word but somehow the structure whether it's net new or the same one could be there for the same benefit and I think that's uh we're we just relate we're relaying basically what an organization town and I I I don't I don't know the organization that donated it to be originally there but I think we just want to um make sure their Goodwill doesn't go like down the drain so to speak through the chair if I could I believe that was um a CPC funded um build yeah so thank you thank you Timothy so I I I think that's that's the goal there is to Capital uh the CPC donated funds to get that gazebo built or so the goal is to hopefully have a like kind gazebo that is in the benefit of uh I don't know the original intent of why it was built I don't know for what like the use but uh obviously it was vetted that there was a use and a benefit the playground or or some some benefit uh and so I think the goal is just to maintain it maintain that benefit whether it's a new structure or just m uh preserving the one that's there this is um Tim I don't mean to jump in this is Ashley calling him the landscape architect um and I don't want to override what Chris said but we did take that note very seriously we have a great location we think to relocate that small Pavilion area um so cost pending or getting those numbers in we are currently showing that in a relocated spot on on the new plan and that is being shown on the latest drawings that you guys have okay terrific I I agree with with uh the school building uh I don't is it if it's a building committee that uh has to an analyze all the costs of a project like this and if Granite curving is cost prohibitive from the overall project scope I think that's the right place for that kind of pros and cons analysis to to be because we're not evaluating the overall total budget of the school project and they are and that's part of what they're they should be doing um I think from a planning board perspective we think Granite kerbing is more sturdy it would last longer but if it's financially prohibitive and it impacts other things of this project it's a town project and I think the because it's a town project the AL the the group that's managing the budget for this project should have final say that would be my opinion there as well so I agree with that uh kind of decision thought process Rob before we vote to continue is there any concern about Quorum like with people having left the board and people a that's a good that's a good question uh John are we are we still I know Jane Matthew Parker uh Elise I and myself I think we're I think we got Michael I think we got seven are we all eligible for this I want to say some might not be we need at least five check the official [Music] document I know I missed a meeting but I got my paperwork in I think like a week ago so all right you can't you're not allowed to miss the next one then the next one is the uh yes the the yeah so it looks like um Lucia and Karen are not eligible because they're new to the board Mike Vic and Jane have all missed one so they cannot miss another otherwise they're ineligible we have seven John I believe I've submitted my paperwork saying that uh completed it yeah but you you can miss one but you can't miss two and we're going to shoot for a goal at the next I I think we're going to have this on our next meeting agenda is that correct we haven't voted on that but I can move to continue it to the 17th if that works Rob through the applicant and uh and Jean do you think the 17th is a realistic timeline or do you want uh July 1 I think the 17th would be fine I was go ahead Christopher uh we would prefer the 17th um we are trying to get some work started that's relying on the storm water um permit being issued we don't necessarily need the full sight plan approval um but we have some um early enabling work that we're hopeful to get in this summer before the teachers and students return in the fall and um getting the storm water approval on the 17th and getting time bonds letter to the Conservation Commission before their next meeting next Tuesday um would both be helpful in establishing that uh Jean from time on you think that's reasonable yeah I think we can um you know I know we had it issued one letter with our civil and traffic work together I think we're going to do it in an A and A B series we'll have the civil and storm water stuff issued by the end of the week so that we can meet that concom deadline and then or have that lease in hand before your concom meeting and then um next week follow up with any traffic comments and in the meantime we're trying to work through those comments with the applicants team um so we can have a clear letter for the 17th we can commit to that so uh thank you John I'm going to make a I'm going to entertain a motion here to continue this the 17th but I also think I need to move continue the decision criteria to uh CT you are correct the decision deadline is June 10th so we would want to continue till like a week after so June 24th so I'd like to entertain a motion to continue the public hearing for uh 90 and 104 Hayden row to June 17th and continue the decision to June 24th and through the chair the decision is just for a storm water management permit the site plan is uh deadline is 90 days after the close heing Okay uh how should I maybe do I make two motions then um you can no it's you can continue the site plan and storm water management permit here ings to June 17th and the decision for the storm water management permit to June 24th okay I'd like to entertain a motion to continue the public hearings for the site plan and storm water management uh permit to for 90104 hyen row to June 17th and the decision criteria for the storm water management plan to June 24th so moved second thanks I'm going to go through the roll call votes chair go ahead just a just a point of clarification decision deadline not the decision criteria does uh are you as Matthew and Parker are you willing to accept a friendly amendment of decision deadline as opposed to all right all right I'm going to go through the roll call vote and um bear with me uh I will get the wording down as uh we go through uh go through these the the official Dynamics here of uh managing the meeting but Elise how do you vote I vote Yes all right Lucia Lopez do I vote on this uh no sorry Matthew Ronka yes Michael King yes Parker ha yes Jane Moran yes vicaso pry yes and Rob Benson is yes so uh thanks everybody thanks Christophers thanks Steve um thanks Ashley Timothy we'll see uh we'll see you guys all in two weeks thank you great thanks everyone so the the next thing on our agenda is new to us uh let me I'm gonna I'm following along with the agenda here so uh it is uh open Play pickle ball and paddle Club so I'd like to entertain a motion to open the public hearing for the open Play pickle ball and paddleball club for a major site plan and storm water management permit moved all right uh um you have Genny are you going to be talking on the applicant's behalf well I'm the applicant so i' I'd be happy to speak on my behalf okay uh hello everybody my name is yev yes if you could give us an introduction to what you're looking to do that' be great yeah yeah yeah absolutely uh so I'm um I'm a competitive pickle ball player and a battle player I'm also a coach and I would love to bring these two fabulous Sports uh to hington and I'm planning to build a world class facility for both of these Sports pickle ball probably is something that many of you are familiar with it's uh the fastest grown sport in America while padel many people never heard of it here but it's actually the fastest growing sport in the world and it's about to come to us big time and uh that's why I want to bring this to hington and I think the um there are there's a lot of support for the uh for the club and U I think it will bring a lot of great amenities to um to the town uh you're probably are familiar with the um with the pickle ball cours that have been opened recently just few days ago at hackington that just shows uh the support for the sport by the residents uh so I I want to um will I be able to share my screen Maybe I want to quickly introduce the the plan so you're familiar with um let me know when you see my screen we see it now okay all right so it's um it's an indoor and outdoor facility that I'm planning to build uh with alog together 19 cords at this point it's going to be the largest pickle and paddle facility it's indoor and outdoor uh indoor there's going to be uh 10 courts and outdoor three pickle ball and six paddle quarts uh there will be parking space parking lot for about 60 cars and uh it's located um right on the East Main Street uh sharing driveway with Fair viiew states which is a retirement community um I Heard actually a lot of positive feedback from the retirement Community because uh they will have something to do and uh um that's a you know fabulous sport to for them to to engage and um I uh I I invited um a couple of people to join this call uh specifically uh Matt lner um who is site engineer and he will be able to answer any questions um that you might have about the site also is here who spoke a little bit earlier before about Legacy Farms um matters um he is selling this piece of property this piece of land to me uh so I could build this club and uh uh earlier today we uh had a I think really productive discussion with um um peer review consultant who uh created the uh the comments um like a 15 page uh document with the with various comments and I believe we um went through all of these comments and have a pathway forward um Tony are you are you on the call today uh yes uh Tony capetti with Weston and Samson uh I prepared the the piew uh on behalf of the town and we did have a very productive meeting for uh a little over an hour today went through all the comments one by one and and I I do think that they have a path forward for for resolving uh the outstanding issues most of them being clarifications and documentation okay so um how would you like to proceed like I would like to ask the the board maybe Tony um so so I think our next step here is uh to get a staff report from uh our principal planner uh I think that's our next step all right so uh through the chair this as y had described is going to be a combination of a building and outdoor um Court facility with some parking and Associated landscaping and storm water management um there were some concerns with the parking area as it is the leeching field for um the Fairview States next door but that is um permitted through DP so that's really D's realm and we don't really have to weigh in on that as long as D is okay with with it there's really nothing within our jurisdiction on that and Board of Health has been kind of the town's representative on that aspect so uh they're they're watching and and talking to DP and and working with the applicant through all that um it's you know they've gone before design review board design review board had some comments on the facade and the design it's going to be a very large building with a very large uh front on Facing East Main so they just want to try and make it as attractive as possible and Y was very receptive to their comments and I believe he's coming back on June 11th so we will discuss it again um and and talk about D drb comments uh other than that it's a storm water management permit they're disturbing more than an acre of land uh at site plan they're building more than 5,000 square feet of gross floor area and more than 25 parking spaces um it is within the osud district which is the open space mixed juuse District or development District which is so known as the Legacy Farms area so uh it's under a different type of decision criteria than normal site plan so take a look at your memo and familiarize yourself with that because it's not necessarily adherance to the site plan standards though that is part of the review it's more uh adherence to the osmo district and the guidelines the design guidelines and the regulations within the osma district itself um there was a special permit granted by the uh zba for Water Resources protection overlay actually Jeff have you gotten that granted or are you just before them now uh I I got it granted I have it was granted right right yeah I I have a resolution yep so that that has gotten that special permit um and now they're before the planning board to finish the process and by the way we we've created uh 3D R uh 3D renderings of the facade which we didn't have at the moment uh when we presented to uh design review board so if you would like to see that um I'm happy to show the the um like all four sides and get your opinion um other than that I think all the comments were addressed during the meeting that was the only thing that was uh outstanding from design review board I think um just to kind of set EXP ations I think a realistic goal for tonight's meeting uh on this topic is to uh if there's Tony if there's any you're you're from Weston and Samson correct if there's any more um Insight you want to give about the uh your kind of peer review that would be great and then I so just and then I think the next step would be to open up to the board to ask questions and maybe you have if you want you have gen if you want to show us that 3D r ing that would be great but typically once we get through preliminary kind of introduction and a initial staff report initial consultant report uh or overview we'll schedule a s sidewalk and then we'd continue the public hearing to the next meeting so that's our typical process so just to kind of set expectations I think that's what I'd like to do um so let uh Tony what why don't you to go ahead I can no I I prepared just a quick uh kind of a high level if if you could release the screen I can go through my memo I didn't go Point by point but just kind of some of the the major points and what we've discussed today just to uh um should be available now Tony yep there we go and let's see so um we're seeing the we're seeing like the second screen the uh the on let me go to the sorry about that we go all right so uh as you know it's the the Open Play pickle ball and paddle club uh it is a a large uh over8 acre possible vacant land uh next to Fair View Estates it's part of the Legacy Farm uh osma uh open space uh mixed juice development uh it has a set of uh guidelines uh again 24,000 foot building uh with nine exterior courts um storm water management uh over an existing uh leeching field uh for groundwater discharge uh facility that DP is currently reviewing that was one of my comments and you know the condition that I suggested was that they just provide documentation of DP approval prior to construction which uh it's kind of redundant but uh just kind of covers the board uh what we reviewed for was bylaw compliance to the applicable uh bylaws residence B Water Resource uh supplementary regulations which were uh basically covered uh parking uh site plan review the open space mixed juice overlay uh then General site plan layout uh they provided a trip generation traffic report we took a look at and then storm water management compliance uh these are the documents that that we received which are similar to what uh the board received we received it through you um is in the residence B zoning District but Modified by the overlay uh they generally comply with all the dimensional use standards of the bylaw I did have a question on Building height it looks like it appears but they need to provide an average grain calculation uh just from them just the document that it does and and looking at it today I I I still think it complies just to to kind of dot that eye across that t uh parking sufficient for the occupancy level exceeds the bylaw uh it should be noted that some of the requirements are modified from the bylaw by that Legacy Farms design guidelines as far as what uh interior open space uh requirements it's a little less uh because it is an open space development and then the types of plantings and locations are modified uh they do have electric vehicle spaces dedicated uh we're going to Pro uh they're going to modify it to provide uh move one of the handicap spaces to be a an EV space uh so there will be uh an accessible EV space as well as the uh regular spaces um there's a proposed sign um they should just verify that there's adequate sight distance around that sign um on the plans uh the light fixtures along pedestrian walkways are limited to 12 feet by your your lighting requirements which uh they're at 15 ft along the building uh they had no issue with modifying those down to 12 um I asked for a SWAT path analysis for the Emergency apparatus that it's been uh submitted previously to the fire department and they were okay with it so I just uh suggested they provide it to the planning board so you have a record of that as well um for storm water um standard one was met uh they met standard two and they actually used the the new higher rates which the NOA a plus rates which are considerably higher than the the base uh storm water regulations which is good for for a project that relies on infiltration uh they've met uh the recharge standard the TSS removal standard was met it is not a land use subject to high uh pollutant uh loading critical areas uh they are they do discharge to a critical area but they did provide the uh required treatment um it's not a Redevelopment um they provideed construction uh period information for how they're going to handle settlement erosion control uh we did suggest a condition that um they provide Provisions for the infiltration areas to limit construction access or um not fully excavate those during construction to preserve the the soils below the engineer had no issue with that and would modify it uh they will have to provide a Swip and get a Construction general permit because they're over an acre uh they've submitted an onm we suggested just a uh a quick sketch showing where the BMP locations are so uh whoever has to maintain it in the future knows what they're looking for they provided an elicit discharge statement um the additional observations again you know provide plants to keep construction activities from the ation areas which they agreed to and just some construction sequencing for the erosion controls uh which they also said that they could provide um they've complied with most of the requirements from the bylaws uh most of the the topics were just providing additional documentation um they did provide a trip generation analysis uh which they're they're not uh exceeding the 100 uh vehicle trips vehicle trip increase in the peak hour that would kick into a to a TIA however they do have a a 10% increase in the peak hour on that roadway um but what we discussed was the Legacy Farm plans must have issued some sort of uh for that overall development some sort of a traffic study and they're looking at a baseline vacant site and this was planned to be a commercial site so we're going to see if we can find those commercial uh the commercial trip generation that would have been included in that initial uh traffic study and if they're not increasing by more than 10% from from the commercial use that was contemplated uh then uh they should be fine for that standard um I asked about noise uh there there is a lot of uh discussion about noise from from outdoor pickle ball uh I was happy to hear that they did commission a noise study at that time it was not submitted but uh they did incorporate those recommendations and I said they should submit that as part of the record which that they agreed to uh they they seem to be on track to to address or agree to conditions for all the outstanding items uh before the next meeting so if they could get me a you know a response prior to a week before the next meeting I should be able to get a review by the by the meeting um and then we did make recommendations for some uh conditions that uh items either be received prior to construction there were some easements that were needed from adjacent Property Owners or or um some signed uh documen we usually uh like to see the operation maintenance plan signed by the person responsible and make that a condition of occupancy as part of your decision um and then there is a requirement for uh sidewalks along the property Frontage the existing sidewalk goes about halfway and because of wetlands uh then crosses on a crosswalk and continues on the other side of the street uh there is a provision in your zoning says that the board can make a finding that that an alternative provision for sidewalk along the entire property Frontage has been met I would suggest that the board make that that finding if they they feel that is adequate when they go out on the S sidewalk there's existing wheelchair ramps that cross the street there an existing crosswalk so it does serve the purpose to extend the the crosswalk across the entire Frontage uh directly impacts wetlands and and doesn't really lead to anywhere so I think that's something just to keep an eye on while you're out on the S sidewalk um so yeah know I think they they did a a very good do job uh there was just a couple of minor items that needed some clarification uh that if they get to the board uh should be in a a position to resolve the outstanding engineering issues thank you Tony I would like to just make a couple of comments um one on the height of the building I discussed it today with the architect he did the calculations and we are indeed under 35 foot height as um you suggested as you kind of assumed and thought and secondly um we did locate um thank you Roy very much for finding the traffic report that was generated uh some time ago for Legacy Farms and uh I looked at the table and the um and we are well under the uh um the number of vehicles that was approved at that time for that location it was uh designed for 40,000 uh square foot retail location and uh we're well under the number of cars number of trips at PE hours so we'll provide that um documentation as well thank you is there any uh questions uh from the board for yeni or for Tony no questions just would comment Robert uh that uh yeah Robert MTAR is probably happy there's not more tennis courts being taken for pickle ball and appreciate you constructing such a fabulous facility Rob I see the decision criteria was June 3rd that's today soone need to extend that for sure yeah so what we typically like to do is go on a s sidewalk so we get an actual uh understanding of the Topography of the land and and and just a general kind of understanding it it helps us as a planning board would it that be possible to do this Saturday the 10th or the following Saturday is it the 10th wait no 8th 8th or the 15th uh at roughly like 9 in the morning what the times work for me yeah they work for me as well y I think that's a question for you like typically typically as well like it's I I wanted to know if the board can make it at two but uh typically the applicant or somebody from the applicant some representing the applicant meets us for these sidewalks uh I'm actually going to be away uh from uh June 5th until June 16th but uh maybe Roy could through the chair through the chair Roy mcdull I can do that tour with you is one of those Saturdays better than the other the 8th or the 15th this Saturday would be good if you could do it how does eth uh this Saturday the 8th at 9:00 a.m. work for the board I'm good with it I'm good I will not be there all right if we can if we get most if we can get like at least half the board uh that if works for go ahead was somebody saying something yeah sorry did you say 9:00 am Saturday yeah um yeah I could do that all right terrific we're we're going to mark it uh I don't think it's hard to get a general overview so if you if you miss the sidewalk I think um you probably could sneak you could probably park at the Fairview Estates and just kind of get a lay of the land from that parking lot I think to some degree uh so if you miss the sidewalk just try to swing by and uh just kind of understand the general topography but for anyone that can make it June 8th at 9:00 am where should we park Roy if you come in the entrance as as you're heading towards the senior living you'll take a right there's a gravel parking lot down below we can fit about half a dozen cars there all right that sounds good and I'll bring some renderings and site plans with me okay um and if you would like I can also share a Drone footage that I have that will give a sense to people who are not able to come maybe on Saturday if you you have that with do you have that ready for now for now yeah I have it ready I just don't I I don't have it loaded I mean I can't share it immediately but I can upload it um for you it's you do you want to show the renderings I can show the renderings I actually um I can show something else that might be of value uh it's going to take just a one minute one second um well he does that through the chair go ahead Lucia um so one of the things I'd like to see on the sidewalk on the S sidewalk is the proximity to the um abutters just because I know they mentioned a noise study that was done and that they've taken that into consideration but I I know that's going to be a concern given you know things that you've heard about pickleball courts in um close to populated areas yeah um very good comment yeah actually the the way how this uh sound mitigation study was done it was modeled um specifically that location with every single a from all sides and how the sound goes in all these different directions an appropriate solution has been uh designed so even on on this um like introductory video you see this black uh wall right so that is the sound mitigation solution uh that was proposed but uh let me uh if you could just pay attention for one minute it's a it's a very short video sure kind of that demonstrates what I'm like my vision really what I'm planning to do so three pickle B courts on the North facility the driveway Park in area six padel fors on the south end so all these pel cours and the parking lot are directly above the leaking field what's the difference between the two types of Courts let the video continue to play but what's the what's the difference between two different types of cords yeah these are different there are different sports it's kind of like you know soccer and football two different sports with balls right so the courts are different okay is it a size difference on the courts or a different net that yeah it's not obvious from the video so Rob while we're watching this is there uh I assume it's like normal retail hours would be the requirement here when we're talking about noise Etc I I think we have uh the kind of the minimum and maximums in our zoning bylaws yeah so that is uh um that's kind of division that um I have for the club so you have an idea kind of what what is going to be where and uh um these are the colors that um I'm thinking about the um light gray and the dark gray uh the design board suggested like 4 foot W scotting so that's what um I uh um I modeled it after and it turns out that it's a it's actually a very um common combination of colors um so it's and as a matter of fact right now I I visited a facility in East that's being built right now similar size facility as a pickle ball club and they're using the same color right uh one thing that actually I would love to get your uh feedback on an opinion is U uh the mural so one of the things that I would love to do if um design board and the planning board with the full um is to add some kind of mural some some art some visual um to create some character because uh as you notice it's a big building and there are no windows or you know um and there are no windows for a reason because Windows create AR Shadows on the quarts and it actually makes it more difficult to play uh I I don't I don't know if we really have any jur diction over this to be honest we can give you our opin like I I I don't know chair yeah who's who's it that town beeting that was asking about wanting to do more murals and things that was like somebody brought that up we we we can't tell you what to do but we can definitely connect you with folks that are interested in that yeah I I don't know that the planning board has any really I don't know that we have any purview over that type of graffic on the building I mean do that fall under signage yeah I was going to say I could take a look at your signage bylaw and see if it it applies here um that would be great because uh I think you just be getting like one of us may like it one may not I like I don't know that we have any real uh yeah I I got got it and and and it's not necessarily what I will decide to do it's it's just an example to show like what I might and I uh put on a building to uh to create some character because it's a you know somebody said big big metal Mass um I think this was covered already but there's no Lighting on the external for any of this right and the trees are representative in this video so trees are representative uh the lighting you correct this was done before the lighting design was um was put in place but there will be uh there will be lighting for example here like external lighting at 12 ft um and on the other side there's going to be two light poles and and it's it's all will be reflected on the on the side plan but this V video and these images they they should provide kind of a general understanding where what is going to be like on the site and how it's going to fit together because to me it's easier to visualize what will be there looking at the 3D model rather than just from bird's eye looking down are the courts themselves The Outdoor courts going to be lit lighted they will be uh lighted uh the um both pickle ball and paddle quarts will be lit and and um lighting for pi for padel quarts actually is integrated inside of the like it's it's part of the padel court right so the lighting is part of it for the pickle ball quartz um I'm planning to use a very Innovative company actually that's called twinner the way how they designed the lighting it it's it's attached at the top of this fence that goes parallel to the sideline of the cord and it shines down and it illuminates the whole uh Court without um spilling over light to the other side okay this was one of the items that uh we discussed today and he's going to provide some additional documentation so we can yeah check for compliance yeah any other questions from the board 128 is uh just to our right over our right shoulder staring at this right is that okay uh 13 12 what do you mean 128 oh 128 East East M Street it's right there okay yeah all right I think question through the chair go ahead Elise um have you given any thought to solar anywhere on the property excellent question um so I'm uh um I I asked the metal building manufacturer design the building with the collateral load that will support um solar panels if I choose to add them at some point I Frankly Speaking at this point I haven't uh committed to that yet um I need to understand kind of the ROI how much it requires right now to put them in and uh um but in in case I decide to do it there will be a way to do it because uh um because how this metal building is going to be designed from ground up right with the pro for a collateral load for that and and I don't think there will be a place anywhere else to put the uh uh the solar panels because uh if you remember like that's the that's the lot and uh over here there is a 100 foot buffer right we already going inside a little bit so there is not much space for us to add solar panels which would be nice actually to to do through the chair go ahead Jane um one of your neighbors um at the Congregational Church I think a couple of years ago erected U covers for their parking lot and put solar panels over the over those um tops yeah excellent idea um unfortunately I don't think it's going to work for this specific side because of the leing field right um right we have pipes so we can't really put any structures like big structures with big fings there otherwise I probably would have covered this quartz as well so okay thank you yeah I just verified to uh the new building code amendments require that um the new commercial buildings be commercial ready as part of their design structurally so uh be solar ready rather uh so that that's part of the the new building code okay all right um I think at this point uh is if there's no other questions I think we're going to continue this uh John what what's our schedule like for uh time in our in our upcoming meetings I don't think there's a ton right now for June 17 all right let's let's put this on our agenda for June 17th so I'd like to entertain a motion to continue the public hearing for the open play and pickle B uh let me make sure I get this right so I'd like to entertain a motion to continue the public hearing for the major site plan and storm water management permit uh to for zero East Main for zero East Main Street to June 17th and continue the decision criteria uh for the storm water management permit to June 24th move the chair decision deadline decision deadline sorry decision deadline to June 24th just through the CH one point of clarification uh and for John as well don't you have to open it for public comment uh as a public hearing I don't think anyone here has their hand up or anything but but just to protect you from all right since nobody uh moved the motion is there any public comment before we uh before we continue seeing no public comment I'd like to entertain a motion to continue the public hearing for zero East Main Street for the major site plan and storm water management permit to June 17th and continue the decision deadline for the storm water management permit to June 24th B moved second thanks I'm G I'm going to go through the uh roll call vote uh Alis meoki how do you vote Yes uh Lucia Lopez yes Matthew Rona yes Michael King yes Parker hap yes Jane Moran yes Karen Wills yes vicaso prti yes and Rob Benson is yes all right yny we'll see you uh in two weeks uh Mr McDowell we'll see you on Saturday at 9:00 a.m. thank you very much thank you everybody have a wonderful evening thank you thank you thank you rob may I bring something up before we move on uh well I guess it it depends what it is about if it needs to be on our agenda but sure go ahead just very quickly um earlier we had a lot of comments in the comment section of the meeting and it kind of concerned me because if anybody makes a comment in a meeting on camera they have to State their name and address but when people were talking in the chat they didn't do that and some people didn't even have their names on the chat so we don't even really know who they were so I feel like that's public comment but we're not tracking it it's also not captured any anywhere else in the in the meeting minutes it's not even in the meeting minutes yeah it just I don't know it kind of bothered me has that usually been enabled I don't think I've noticed yeah through the chair it's been um I think at the beginning they disabled all the comments and then so these these Zoom accounts are used by all the different boards so different boards might change the settings but um I'm going to talk to it and just see if we can just disable the the the chat because it's not necessary in these types of meetings it does get used a lot in certain meetings where there's not hearings like the planning board um and it's a little bit more informal but in these types of settings I don't think it it really benefits the board I was think I I was I noticed the comments because I I I think comments um but I was kind of uh at least to just to expand on what you were said I was surprised there was so many comments uh because I don't remember other meetings ever having comments but yes I think we uh I think that's the right course of action John um so our next meetings June 17th July 1st July 15 uh I I think that covers our agenda items we don't normally go through the zoning zoning board of appeals uh stuff it's just more informational for my uh for for everybody on the board so I think now is uh unless there is anything else I think now is a time to entertain a motion to adjourn for this evening so moved second all right roll call vote uh Alise meowski yes uh Lucia Lopez yes Matthew Rona yes Michael King Parker hap yes Jane ran yes Karen Wills yes vicaso pry yes and Rob Benson is yes and once again welcome Lucia and Karen and thanks everybody see you in two weeks thank you