through the chair you're live on hcam TV e hi everybody somebody say something so I can get a sound check I can hear there we go through the chair you're live on hcam TV all right thanks Bob one two three [Music] four five I see five all right uh good evening everybody it is uh 7 p.m. on April 22nd 20 24 this is Gary trenel I hereby call our planning board meeting to order first chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 this meeting will be conducted via remote meeting in accordance with applicable law this means that members of the public body as well as members of the public May access this meeting via virtual meetings participants May access the meeting through the remote meeting link as posted on the meeting agenda and through the town's online calendar when required by law or Allowed by the chair person's wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participating in the meeting May do so by raising their hand or otherwise signaling their in speak this meeting will be recorded please take care to mute your microphone unless you have been recognized by the chair we will now confirm attendance of members please respond with present if you are on the call uh Rob Benson is Rob here yet no Jane Mor present Elise melowski hello hi leise uh Matthew present Michael King uh Michael said he's not going to be here uh Vias pra not here either Parker hap pres and Gary trenle is here as well um all right let's quickly take a look at our agenda um we will start uh with a couple of administrative uh items um the uh Bond release for Hopkinson Highlands 3 um which hopefully after our last meeting will be relatively straightforward we have some guests tonight um to speak to the stretched uh specialized stretched energy code discussion with sustainable green committee um and then we have uh we have uh three continued public hearings and uh one new public hearing for major project site plan um for the Hopkins uh School lower middle school that's a new name for me um and so um let's go ahead and get started with the administrative items and um I guess just one quick comment um and I'm hopeful that uh John you haven't heard that uh anything from Rob have you have not I've only heard from Vic and Michael okay I'm hoping Rob is gonna be on because um as in a butter to the schools I was planning to recuse myself and I um uh had asked Rob to take uh the chair for that hearing so um hopefully he will be on shortly um all right so let's start with those um ah there's Rob hey Rob sorry M did you hear what I said well I don't know if you were on but just a reminder that on the uh the hearing for um hopin school I'm going to need you to to share that as I will recuse myself as an AB okay i' sent you an email I didn't hear back um maybe a week week and a half ago but all right I didn't see it but uh I will uh I'll be happy to okay all right so let's start with the uh the bond release request um John I think you had sent out uh an email today I'll be honest I haven't um gone through anything in details but um what's the the current status on the bond release request for Hopkinson Highlands so the email I sent out was just forwarding a letter from the board chair um just basically saying we're not going to guarantee that anything has been done properly because they just don't know um so and then Marcel sent over a document that was included in the original shared folder okay so um quick recap on the last meeting we had basically said that it's a it's a a private road um so DPW didn't have any responsibility um the time that it's been installed was likely indicator that there were no further issues um but that we were looking for the homeowners association to make a statement of some kind and sounds like the homeowners association didn't quite do that they just came back and said we don't know can I I don't know how to raise my hand can I interrupt uh hi Brian hi sure so for the record I'm Brian Moffett I'm the president of the Board of Trustees here at the the M Woods Community Trust um and and sorry Brian just for the record can you give us your address as well sure it's a for Trevor Lane upington Mass um in the letter I basically said what uh was presented but I also indicated that we are unaware of any issues with the system and we're not experts but we've been living here for a long time and there have been no issues and the season that we've had uh with an excessive amount of rainfall that system has performed as good as we should expect I presume okay thanks Brian appreciate the additional context um Marcel I see you're on as well any any additional updates or consideration for us not really I gave John uh one of the things we were asking for was uh work that was done to the well um I gave him paperwork that was showing that we had some well work done and also a uh um acceptance from d for that system at that time that was 2010 which was after the bond letter that we were looking at okay thanks Marcel um um any other uh questions or comments from from the board we ready to take a vote on this I think so um so let me make sure I get this worded right uh I will entertain a motion of the planning board um gosh what's the right wording here John entertaining motion of the planning board will uh release the bond of $146,400 yes so moved second all right any further discussion uh Rob how do you vote Rob Benson yes Jane Jane Marin yes release I don't think I can vote because I haven't builded up a form from the last meeting yet this isn't a hearing through the chair so at least should be you can vote because it's not a hearing but you can also abstain if you prefer to okay um I'll abstain okay Matthew yes uh Parker yeah yes and Gary is a yes as well so that motion carries thanks Brian thanks Marcel thank you have a good evening you as well you as well um all right and then um the next administrative item for us is on the stretch energy code discussion and uh Jeff are you g to be providing the overview or yes so that'll be myself and Nicole Simpson yes okay hi Nicole it's funny I was looking at you but then I was trying to remember if if uh if you were a part of this or not but um great well if you guys want to um introduce yourselves and uh Enlighten us on it and then um we'll take a few minutes to uh ask questions and and and discuss um your overview great thanks so much um for those who are following along my name is Jeff Roland I'm chair of the sustainable green Community Committee here in town uh and Nicole Simpson's also a member um so we are reintroducing the specialized energy code to the annual town meeting uh this year so we'll walk you through a little bit of an overview here um so in Massachusetts quick overview there's three levels of the building code there's a base code which sets some minimum standards but it's used by a very small proportion of the population the stretch code until last year was really the main code for the state um but the specialized code was introduced um early last year January 2023 and we've seen um towns migrating over to it basically it's a Greener Amendment to the stretch code the Hopkinson uh adopted the stretch code in 2010 which allowed us to um qualify as a green Community through which we've gotten uh quite a few grants and the specialized code uh prepares new buildings for Net Zero and will also be a step for uh hopkington to qualify as a climate leader so a quick overview of the specialized code kind of an executive summary if you will it's a key action for limiting carbon emissions from new buildings and I want to stress that the specialized code does not affect Renovations or additions to existing buildings we're talking about new construction only and so it's an amendment to the code for new construction it doesn't ban fossils fuels it adds requirements to offset those emissions such as pre-wiring for future electrification and it allows multiple compliance paths for developers uh as I mentioned it would allow us um potential additional access to state grants as a climate leader and if it were to pass at town meeting it would go into effect for January 2025 so at least a six-month uh Delay from vote to implementation is required so why are we doing this um pretty much because our climate's changing right um we talk climate changes in the news a lot we're coming out of our warmest winter on record um we we like to include this graph in presentations because it shows fairly starkly where our climate is headed this is a projected data on the number of days by the end of this Century that are expected to be above 90 degrees in hopkington so our kids grandkids great grandkids are going to have two to three months uh above 90 degrees which uh is a far different climate than uh we are experiencing today uh if anyone's interested in the data it's from resilient. mass.gov so in the context of you know that problem that's going to keep getting worse we want to do our part to help reduce our emissions obviously climate change is a global problem but we want to take care of our emissions here in Hopkinton and about half of hopkinton's emissions come from our buildings especially heating and cooling air and water and to of Net Zero um in about 20 to 25 years we need to reduce our building emissions next slide please and frankly we're going in the wrong direction when it comes to our buildings over the last few years you can see that that orange section on the bottom that's gas usage has going up and up and up now through the specialized code we can at least try to get that to Flatline a little bit and for that green section the homes that are all electric um to continue to grow which is the trend we need over the next 20 plus years so new homes are predominantly built with gas right now and we need to shift to the specialized code in order to uh change that Trend now I think I'm handing off to Nicole to do a little deeper dive all right so uh I'm going to explain now what actually is changing when we adopt the specialized code so you can think of it we'll go into more details now but the simplest form you can think of it of two different paths when you have new construction you can do all electric which is an option today but it's an option that isn't often um selected but that means no gas oil or propane um connected to the house it does allow for a backup generator that is something that you can still be all electric and have that backup generator if that's something you wanted to build with um but the most important thing is the heating and cooling with a high efficientcy heat pump um and we can talk more about heat pumps later if you have any questions about that um so why go this path this means lower emissions by Design if you're all electric it is inherently lower emissions um and it's building for the needs of the future not align with the way things have been done in the past so that's a valid option today but the alternative is mixed fuel so that's the terminology used for any kind of fossil fuel hookup um into the into the building there's two requirements that will come with that for a specialized code pre-wiring for future electrification so that means um air and air and water heating cooking and clothing drying if you're um using gas for that then you would need the wiring in place to be able to um easily switch that to Electric when any of those systems fail and you replace it it makes it easier for that future building owner to make that choice to switch to electric and if you think about where we'll be 10 15 20 years from now when they'd be making that choice it's it's going to be um you know much more common in the obvious choice uh at that point um for for switching so pre-wiring while your building is being constructed it's open you're doing the electricity anyway it's putting these wires in place while you're designing that electric panel um and and building the house it's going to be much more cost- effective at that time the second thing is on-site solar a certain amount of solar would be required in any building uh with any building that is doing the mixed fuel option so why I do this it's offsetting those fossil fuel emissions that would be coming from from that building um by doing the solar and It prepares it to be easier to transition to Electric down the road um uh using that pre-wiring so here's the full map of compliance so if any time you're not sure on the criteria I'd suggest referring back to this chart because this really has it all captured on here so we're going to walk through these you know four different categories of buildings that have slightly different um requirements around them uh everything in yellow is what's coming with the specialized code the things not shaded yellow um are already exist within the stretch code so let's start with a single family home that's less than 4,000 square F feet if you go all electric no changes to the code you can follow what's in the in the stretch code if fossil fuels are used um you need to pre-wire for those electric appliances in those categories I mentioned before and you would need a minimum of 4 kilow of solar on site um it does allow exceptions for shaded SES so if there's tree that are causing shading on the roof there's certain criteria around roof angle um direction and you know if it doesn't make sense to put solar on that building it's not going to be forced so you have those exceptions but the expectation is 4 kilowatt of uh solar if you're using fossil fuels um and for context if you look back at the last 15 years um 91% of construction 91% of the buildings built in hopkington uh were single family homes less than 4,000 ft so that doesn't necessarily tell you what it's going to be in the future but it gives you some idea that this is the largest group of the types of building categories we're talking about here the next one is single family homes greater than 4,000 ft all electric no difference from stretch code if you're using fossil fuels then again you need the pre-wiring and you need solar but it needs to be enough solar to offset the emissions of the building on an annual basis so that means certified Zero Energy there are no exceptions for shading um in in this category um over the past 15 years that's represented 6% of all new buildings it's been a little bit more in recent years and than in the past but um overall uh that's the the percentage for these larger homes and the reason for this is larger homes have greater emissions so it's asking um in order to offset that um to to do solar to um to make it Zero Energy next is multif family um residents that are greater than 12,000 Square ft so that's pretty large uh for context that represented 2% of all new construction in hopkington it was only three buildings in the past 15 years they were very large buildings but um but only three uh now here for this specific category passive house design is that is a building standard it's been around for a long time um but it has principles that um including Superior Windows uh mechanical ventilation with heat recovery continuous insulation and airtight construction so you're really energy efficient buildings um and 15,000 units exist are be being built in Massachusetts so that's what passive house is it's a particular building standard and it's more efficient to do that when you're doing a large building um you can can it take advantage of the size of the building in order to to apply these standards so either all electric or fossil fuels passive house design if you're using fossil fuels you still need to pre-wire um and then this this path doesn't specifically require solar so it's just a little bit of a different um uh criteria for for that and finally commercial construction that represented 3% of uh buildings um no code changes for all electric will note that elid school replacement is planned to be all electric in its design so it it complies with the code um from the the onsite here um if you're using pole fuels pre-wiring for electric appliances this is still for that air heating air and water heating uh cooking and clothing drying it doesn't apply to other industrial uses so if you were using the building for manufacturing and had fossil fuels for that um system that isn't part of the criteria it's really about building operations there's requirements for solar um it's specified a little bit differently than the other types of buildings but the way you can think of it is it represents about 25% of the roof if it's a two-story commercial building but it could be anywhere on the property it could be on the roof it could be covering the parking lot as a canopy it could be other uh another location on the property um so that's uh commercial construction um I wanted to note um you may all be aware that Hopkinton was recently named Platinum bior we pride ourselves in having um biotech in hopkington and want to encourage more uh I just wanted to note that there are nine other municipalities that are Platinum Status and have the specialized code so this having this code and adopting this code is not going to change our bio status status that's those are compatible with each other and you can see examples of that in other locations in the state um Jeff mentioned earlier this new climate leader program so we've been in a green Community since 2010 we've gotten over a million dollars in Grants that have gone to all different um Energy Efficiency projects in hopkington um so that's been a great opportunity for us and us getting in there early has an enabled many of these different grants um there's a new program that's starting called climate leaders and One requirement to be a part of that is that you have adopted the specialized code um that will have its own pool of grant funding for those municipalities that have that are climate leaders um and it can go towards things like ground Source heat pumps solar or other Municipal decarbonization projects so um it helps helps us reach our environmental goals and at the same time can lead to operational savings for the town um and when we were uh had a webinar recently um the the green community's representative actually mentioned about the Hopkins Edition where we're doing we're we're hoping or planning to do a ground Source heating that if we were a climate leader we might be able to apply for a grant for that um so other ways to to bring in money to Hopkinson and offset some crost and um for this we'd only be competing with the other climate leaders so a few dozen um inali is at this point hopefully continuing to grow rather than the 300 green communities that there now are in Massachusetts um as for cost and incentives for new construction I'm not going to read through all of this but if you are building all electric there are a lot of ways to um get rebates and money money back a lot of incentives around that um so some for commercial for homes for for units and and passive house design um so there's some examples here and data shows that um with examples of buildings in Massachusetts building all electric um is comparable in price and often when you incorporate these incentives is going to be less expensive than building the mixed fuel option or fossil fuel option um if you are going the fossil fuel path then um pre-wiring it will add some cost it should be a modest amount of added cost because you are already doing electric work so there's some there but it would be much less than what it's going to cost that building owner down the road to to add that electric wiring and then for solar you can follow any ownership model you can own it where um you know you would be paying up front for the cost of that take advantage of the 30% um Federal incentive but then all of the electricity generated by that solar um would be free for the lifetime of the panels there's also the lease option or power purchase agreement so some upfront costs but the owners would save monthly on their electric bills due to the solar and would avoid future retrofits uh because of the pre-wiring um for residents how is this going to IND impact individuals um unless you're building a new construction it should have no personal impact on you it doesn't impact Renovations or additions um there's no tax impact because for inspectors there's free training um the inspection should be able to be managed by the same staff that we have today it's just they'd be looking for something a little bit different when they do these inspections um there's potential for more grant money uh that can save on capital projects and lead to operational savings and this is a major step forward towards our Net Zero future which we voted on in the resolution last year at town meeting um and om School of replacement is just a a good example of um you know a ground Source heat pump was chosen for multiple reason it's the lowest cost of ownership there's rebates that will substantially um reduce The Upfront cost um so the best environmental Choice was also the best Financial Choice um and as I mentioned before it will be in full comp compliance with the specialized code so we made this website called hops specialize.in that and read more more details on it or reference back to a lot of this material is captured in there or if you have any questions you can reach out to us at the green chair at Hopkinton ma go webbsite um address rather so just to summarize wrap it up pre-wiring enables an easy switch to Electric appliances as um as those reach end of service and have to be replaced this is a key action for reducing carbon emissions and buildings hopkington cannot reach Net Zero without addressing buildings it is a major part of our emissions and this is the easy time to do it when you're building something new you can make those choices from the beginning and um um and it's a lot easier than the retrofits to buildings down the road it's cost savings to the homeowner both short and longterm it gives us increased opportunity for State grant money as a climate leader and finally it still allows Market Choice developers and home buyers can choose the path that makes sense for them and um and be in comp compliance with this code that was our last slide um are there any questions all right thanks Jeff and thanks Nicole um let's go ahead and open it up for a quick round of questions if people have them um and you know I just one preface is um you know I think this is probably a topic that we could debate all night um if we were to get into the details um but I I think um for our discussion let's keep it focused specifically on the the Hopkinson implications if that makes sense I just don't want to get into a debate about why this and not that and other complexities associated with climate change questions Jay sure thank you first of all for that excellent presentation that's really um very impressive so you mentioned in the presentation that correct me if I'm wrong or if I misinterpreted this but Hopkinson has received over a million dollars in Grants so far and I'm just wondering um who was the um receiver of these successful grants and also what was the scope of work when you applied for these grants okay so there's a something here so that I'm looking at now these are the grants um so it's a number of them that added up to that a million dollar um I'm not sure if anybody on I'm not familiar with what the process was for applying for them um or which departments did that but clearly we've been successful multiple times with um receiving that money and it covered a variety of different during these years I think we did have a grant Rider I'm not sure if we have one now but um so that could have yeah now we do have Julia now who um I believe would she's she's already successfully um got a grant for um hopkington aligned with developing our climate action plan and um I would expect these would be aligned with with her goal um as well as the other departments that are looking to fund something specific that would be a good fit for um the climate leader Grant money okay so if I could with a followup just to summarize it it appears that the main primary receiver of the funding is the town itself not individual homeowners correct um in the wording for I mean this is a new program so we there has been no climate leader money handed out yet so we haven't seen exactly what projects it's gone to but the examples they gave ground Source heat pumps um solar those are pretty big capital projects but they also leave it open for your own creative ideas around um how to apply it so I would think maybe some environmental justice Equity type projects if lowincome homeowners if we wanted to start some program around supporting I'm getting heat pumps I I don't know exactly but it had some open um language for that but it would have to be a minable action and not individuals applying to it um is my understanding thanks Nicole Jane just one point to add is that I I would bet that the total number of rebates through other programs for homeowners or Property Owners is actually quite a bit larger than that1 point something million dollars just you know as you look at every every solar roof that's been put on is got a pretty big uh level of support for it as well and so sure that that just goes straight to the the property owners but yeah I understand that and that's a wonderful program H I don't think that was applied for through the grant no so just one other followup if I could um I think this might be a question that might come up at the annual town meeting is that um gas particularly appears to be and I could be incorrect on this much more inexpensive um than straight pure up electric and I don't know if I agree with that or not but I'm just wondering how you plan to answer those types of questions when it does come up at town meeting because all electric is extremely expensive yeah so one thing that um when people think of all electric they think of the old heating systems where it was really expensive the resistive heating is inefficient when we're talking about heat pumps now and in this area specifically the cold weather heat pumps the technology has changed um dramatically in the past 5 or 10 years where it is a great option in this area and they just the operation of a heat pump is different because it's moving heat rather than generating heat so it requires much less energy to um to heat a home I have a system that has no um gas backup and it's it's very comfortable and effective in heating even on those colder days and um so as far as the cost um you have to factor in efficiency of the um the device um that makes it um a cost effective and can be cost saving compared to oil it certainly would save money I agree I mean gas it might be um about equal um and uh oh there's one other thing I was going oh and the cost of electricity um if you do solar which is not required on the all electri path but if you add solar you can reduce your electricity costs there's not a way to do that with your gas cost so that's one other consideration to have um so I think um heat pumps not being familiar to most people uh I think is a limitation on that perception of electric construction is more expensive where that's not necessarily true anym or electric operation I guess I should say and if I um since we're talking about new construction the houses built to these new standards are essentially like thermes they're so tight airwise that it doesn't take a very much of an electrical load to heat and cool them all right thanks Jeff um let's move on to next question Gary this is Rob through the chair can I ask a question yeah I'm trying to I'm trying to understand the context maybe I feel like I missed something um is this is this stretch energy code an article on the annual for annual town meeting I I I guess I don't know what I don't know here yeah yeah at annual town meeting we're article 36 so I gu whose purview is is it the green committee's purview to add this like I don't is it in the building code where where does this kind of Regulation fall in the town government um it's a good question um John can you Enlighten us as to which border committee officially has purview over energy codes such as this it's part of the building code and building code is a change to the building code needs to be voted upon at town meeting yeah so um usually building codes I think are part of the general bylaws but Hopkinton I don't exactly know how it works I think they reference the building code in the bylaws there's some connection so in order for this to be accepted has to get approved at town meeting um and then it becomes part of the building code that Hopkinson operates under so Rob what I can say is that it is does not fall within the jurisdiction of the planning board so the session today is strictly informational for us and I think uh one of the asks of the sustainable green committee is that we um take a vote in support or I I that we vote to see if we are in support of it although um worth noting that that is a a nonbinding vote in any way so um so the question I have I get so thank thank you through the chair one question I did have then is um at town meeting uh one thing that will be discussed is the cost to build a home with this this type of heating and the cost to um continue to run a home with this type of Heating and Cooling and I'm a big believer in um uh the impact of climate change and and like we need to do everything as a society we can so that's that's all makes sense to me but the discussion have they has the sustainable green committee looked to do some projections for like they said 91% of new homes since 2009 or 4,000 square ft a home a 4,000 foot home what is the difference in cost to install uh cost to a builder and what's the difference in the cost to a home owner those are the two costs I'd like to be informed with yeah so just to clarify the 91% were less than 4,000 square F feet greater than 4,000 square feet was about 6% okay less than so if if they're okay so do we know do you know the the new homes um what the difference in cost to install this type of heating versus uh yeah so typically for a home it's going to be an air source heat pump it could be a ground Source heat pump and there is one commun one Street in hopkington that was built with all ground Source heat pump so that's a possible path but most of the time you're going to choose air source for a home um so when you're choosing that for a building it's one system for both Heating and Cooling versus the separate furnace and air conditioner so right there um that's that's potential savings and also if you look at um the rebates available between the inflation reduction act Mass Save um and some of these other incentives if you're building all electric there's substantial savings so that's why when you look at the data for Massachusetts um I think it doesn't even a factor in these incentives when it's about equal to build either way you put in these incentives you can be saving money on that construction for operating the house um like I was saying before with a heat pump it's probably going to be similar to gas and cost less expensive oil but as Jeff mentioned um with changes recently made to the stretch code around the hers rating and the instulation and how it's built um I think one consultant that we we heard speak on this said um if you lost power for a week your house would still be at 50° at the end of the week these are very efficient houses and so overall the heating um intensity is much less than what you would see in an older house um based on changes to the stretch code which we we have either day so um so for that cost difference um I think there is some concern from Builders because it's something new and something they may not be familiar with but um the data indicates that um this is going to be about equal or save money thank you through the chair one last comment is I I'm I I think all of the activities to support R uh reducing any climate change impacts is is necessary but I think for town meeting year uh it would be worth your while to have like numbers and and like and uh I would put more concrete uh projections together that could be shared thanks thanks um other questions or comments from the board the chair I second rob you can go ahead Matt you raise your hand you go Parker thanks I I just wanted to Echo Rob's sentiment is like that that Jeff's comment I feel is most impactful like my in-laws just went through and they have a home now they just built with the current standards and anecdotally for whatever it's worth that it it's you know the house I live in is 30 years old and they literally you know they have to like open Windows because it's so warm when they're south facing because of how efficient these are but being able to like show The Upfront investment is worth it and the investment that we put into these standards as a community folks you know 30 50 years down the line are going to have to inherit not only our you know carbon footprint essentially collectively as a community but more importantly if we ever hypothesize doing things like um Holden does with Holden electric to try and create our own utility and Hopkinson reduce costs we want to make sure that we're you know putting uh infrastructure in place that's going to have the lowest per kilowatt um per hour consumption of you know our homes in aggregate because what folks build they're you know probably not going to change for a century so uh to Echo Rob's Point like figuring out how to show that the investment is worth like not just for operating for you know homeowners themselves and how efficient it is but for a community and Rit large how could benefit us for future um you know opportuni to but just really appreciate this I think it's really great work that you guys have done just thank you very much Matthew yeah um just to reiterate how how Parker into that com uh his statement there um I really like the presentation um I I I remember when this was presented I think it was a special town meeting um I I'm a strong supporter of it um and and just listening to the the debate there I think the thing that got lost on people is that this wouldn't impact them directly in the way that they thought it would right in terms of their their current houses and what they were allowed to do um and I think a lot of people had a mental model of this like 1990s 1950s uh built house and uh you know look at the the air going out the windows um so like I I guess that just reing Parker I think that's one thing maybe to to Really uh to think about adding is is just how efficient these houses would be and these are and these are these are new new create new houses they're designed to a high level of encapsulation um and as we see with people building new houses this comes up time and time again we tend to be building very expensive houses in town anyway um with people that are able to to do that um but thank you very much for continuing to drive this um big supporter thank you any other questions or comments and if not I I have just a couple of them um and I I do really like the idea and I I think for for Jeff and Nicole maybe it's worth just I realize that it's impossible to capture average costs um uh across a lot of different home Styles and options and whatnot but I I do think it might be helpful to have an antidote or an example of say a typical 3,000 foot home um built with um you know with some different options for people to price out I think that would just really help create uh an illustration of of what people are looking at here um you know for perspective my my brother-in-law is um lives in a house with geothermal heating um it is probably a hair over 4,000 square feet um his electric bill is uh in the winter time which is all you know lighting appliances uh and and heating is uh less than $250 a month um so um you know and don't get me wrong the the capital investment is substantial um but that's also where the incentives are based within the state program so that's just one example I'm not saying that that's you know um you know to Nicole's Point um the the the air systems are are far more common and less expensive but they're also um you know Le less efficient than the the geothermal um but um you know I think I think just some some examples um if you can even pull typical houses in some capacity not going to be perfect but I think that might be uh help people understand what's at play here um just two quick questions um and and I and and Jee you commented on this some but um with this new code are there also new insulation or or or uh you know environmental envelope tightness considerations so with the specialized code no the the stretch code which we currently have went through some changes um within the past year that are still phasing in so that that's complicated the discussion to some extent and that was some of the feedback that we received at special town meeting in the fall um Nicole if you could actually go to slide 25 in the supplementary please I think that would help highlight it here we go so uh over time you'll see that the hers rating um which you know Energy Efficiency rating for homes has come down the lower the hers rating the more efficient the the building is um so you'll see that in 2023 the stretch code that's the blue line down the middle um dropped to 52 from 55 uh if communities had adopted the specialized code basically as early as possible in 2023 they would have jumped to hers 42 really quickly within you know six plus months uh however on the timeline that we've been uh even at special town meeting by adopting the specialized code our hers rating would have dropped to this at the same rate as at the stretch code so all of so in summary the specialized code may have dropped the hers rating sooner but not on the timeline we were uh pursuing but all of the hers rating changes are happening as part of our current code okay thanks Jeff and um you know I guess my last comment and I'm I'm I'm glad that there's some additional incentive for larger houses I I know that the specialized code is not one that you guys de developed but I I just personally wish there was more incentive to build small homes instead of large homes because um just just my personal opinion but um all right so so question for for you Jeff um as I mentioned before this is non-binding on on on our behalf but um you know would you like us to take a vote um in support uh of this and like I said it it doesn't doesn't doesn't carry any weight but um you know if if you'd like us to then then um I think we can certainly do that well it'll it'll carry weight in my heart Gary how about that so actually the the select board uh did the same thing when we presented to them uh was that a few days ago or last week I've lost track of time but yeah we would we would appreciate that because to Rob's point there is confus confusion as why this is coming from sustainable green committee and not from the planning board building codes are in kind of a gray area ownership wise okay okay well um so I I uh John I'm looking to actually if you can if you can stop sharing your screen and only so that I can see everybody um but I I think um John help me word this correctly and it's sorry Jee it's article 36 36 36 all right so then um I would entertain a motion for the planning board to support uh article 36 uh from the sustainable green committee um uh in favor of the Massachusetts uh specialized uh energy code point of clarification so are we voting to support or we voting to take a vote of report I'm not sure I understand the difference are are we saying are we making a motion to actually support it or are we taking making a motion that we should take a non-binding vote of whether we support it or not well I think it's it's non binding either way because this isn't within our jurisdiction through the CH John do you have a recommendation sorry yeah I think I think Matt is just trying to say are we voting right now to see if the planning board should vote on a recommend recommendation or are we actually voting on a recommendation and to answer Mass question I think we're voting on a recommendation yes yeah and uh I would just it might just be easier to say the planning board recommends approval of article 36 okay in that case I'll entertain a motion that the planning board recommends approval of article 36 so move second all right any further discussion to the chair yes John uh just a point of clarification for everybody this isn't going to go in the official motions document so somebody in the planning board will probably have to stand up at town meeting to if the board approves the recommendation they'll have to voice that at the uh microphone all right thanks John uh Rob how do you vote Rob Benson yes Jane Jane Marin yes Elise Elise yes Matthew yes Parker yes and Gary is a yes as well so uh thank you Jeff and Nicole U appreciate your your work on this um and uh we'll see you at to meeting thank you so much much folks really appreciate it um all right so moving on we have uh continued public hearing for MBTA communities Zone Amendment uh John any update so the only update we've had is the Attorney General's office has reviewed and only had one comment saying that they are a little concerned that the site plan requirement um may get a sideways look from um the eohc because they generally don't want any kind of Regulation to slow the these types of developments Town Council is currently discussing it with them um and making the argument that multif family is not allowed anywhere in town without a special permit or site plan approval so having this have to get a site plan approval is actually the easiest path forward for any multif family currently allowed in hopkington um so that's really the only comment we received uh we have not got anything back from eoh hlc so if there are going to be amendments we may just have to U amend the motion on the floor of town meeting because that's probably when we're going to get it so at this point I think the planning board is free to make a recommendation on the language we currently have and then if there is any change to language which we hope there won't be uh the board would just take another vote at town meeting um whether to recommend the new language or not okay but to your point the the standard we're applying to NBTA Community zoning is the same that we would apply to multif family so we're not it's actually less yeah it would not requ we're we're not we're not creating any additional work or slowing the process down beyond what we would have in our existing zoning so I mean from the intent of the law we have a pretty sound argument there that's what we believe okay um I'll open it up to the planning board any questions or comments any new questions or comments um as this is a public hearing are there any final comments from the public all right well I think this is I don't know meeting number 12 or 13 or something on this so um on that um there's no further discussion I will entertain a motion the planning board would recommend the town meeting approved NBTA community's bylaw and map article as written in the 2024 annual town meeting warrant so moved second any further discussion see none uh Rob how do you vote no Jane yes Elise yes Matthew yes Parker yes and Gary is a yes as well so that motion carries and we'll be prepared I'm sure that we will have some discussion uh at town meeting um are we on time oh we're trending in the right direction the chair yes John just need to close that hearing now oh thank you um I will entertain a motion to to close the public hearing for uh the proposed amendments to zoning bylaws and zoning map so moved Rob second so no further discussion Rob how do you vote Rob Benson yes Jane Jane yes Elise Elise yes Matthew yes Parker yes Gary is a yes as well um all right storm water [Music] regulations John you want to walk us through current update you're muted John sorry I'm just looking to share the document and Emily from time bond is also here she can walk through a little bit more detail but as the board may know um we had a lengthy Redline document at the last meeting and then there was some discussion about tree preservation so the board directed Ty and bond to add back in the tree preservation language and so this document uh currently has that language redlined uh everything else that was a Redline has been accepted so this is just the tree U preservation language that has changed let me get down to it so I believe it's really just this one item and then the definitions that pertain to the tree protection all right um and so no other no other changes I guess that was the only one we accepted the rest of the red lines yes correct well not a but you directed time bond to accept them so yeah the rest of the the rest of the changes are Incorporated already these are the two changes to the the um the definitions and I believe that was it just some ruming yep that looks like it's it all right um any questions or comments from the board or any questions or comments from the public all right um then on that note um I will entertain a motion that the board approves the modifications to the storm water regulations as proposed dated April 22nd 2024 so moved second second all right is there any further discussion all right seeing none uh Rob how do you vote Rob Benson no Jane yes police yes Matthew yes Parker yes and Gary is a yes as well so that motion carries um and I will entertain a motion to close the public hearing for the stor water regulations so moved second assuming no further discussion Rob how do you vote robon Yes Jane yes relise yes Matthew yes uh Parker yes and Gary is a yes as well all right uh moving on to continued public hearing on water Farms three storm water management permit from Toll Brothers uh I see Mr Merchant is on I see folks from bowler um lots of people on here um Ted why don't we uh do you want to kick things off and get us give us a status update as to where you're at and then we can go from there sure I'll let I'll let Matt from our team do that oh sure okay thank you uh Matt Ashley with bowler um yeah so we haven't um been in front of the board um for a little bit so just kind of wanted to give a quick recap of what's been going on behind the scenes here and then kind of walk you through um updates as they're uh on the plans uh relative to the storm water permit if that's okay with the board sure awesome so uh just to get everyone um refreshed here we were back uh in front of the board in February for a storm water management permit for the um existing subdivision of 20 Lots off of Blueberry Lane um after that February meeting we had a site walk uh the following weekend um in February um where we walked the center line of the proposed roadway with um board members and neighbors um overall got some good feedback from everyone out there um that we took into consideration while making updates to the plants um and then subsequent to that the town also authorized par to conduct a uh peer review on the development which we've been coordinating with them um since February um when we got our first comment letter um and then in addition to that we've also been working with uh the town DPW relative to the proposed updates that are going on out here um overall so what I'm planning on doing is um I kind of do high level updates as it relates to the peer review and then also to the um DPW coordination meetings that we've been having um the review memo in general is relatively Technical and very specific to some certain storm water items so I won't go line by line but kind of just hit on the stuff that updates the plan I also see Bobby here here so he can chime in if I miss uh or I forget something um but I'll go ahead and share my screen I'm guessing I have permission I do great can everyone see that see awesome all right so uh just as a general reminder um this is the proposed uh development uh that we hear for the storm water management permit um it's a 20 lot subd Vision um with uh 20 houses and two new roadways Myrtle Avenue and Fitch Avenue um so there was an existing storm water design out there um but um looking to make improvements here um and do that through the storm water management permit um so as a reminder something we went over before is one of the first things we were asked to look at was increasing the um measure for rainfall so we did use the Noah rainfall data here which I think is a part of your new storm water regulations but um not the time that we did this but we incorporated that into our design um and so what that did is made us take a look at a closer look at all the storm water infrastructure in Myrtle and fit Avenue um and making sure it was adequately sized um for the larger uh storm events um so we did that and the results of that was upsizing a couple of the pipe runs in Fitch and Myrtle Avenue and along with the storm water quality units um down at the end here um the other uh improvements that we made here which weren't previously um proposed was um some yard drain infrastructure um kind of along the back of the units here so specifically um um we introduced yard drains that would collect run off coming down the hill um and intercept it before it got on to fit Avenue Myrtle Avenue or um all the way down to Blueberry Lane and all the existing houses here um so that would be collected and routed around um and tying into the um existing um storm water infrastructure in Blueberry Lane and down to the existing storm water basins um no different than what's happening under today's conditions we're just intercepting it sooner um um to hopefully reduce um water getting to the proposed Lots um and the existing Lots on blueberry and I know this question will probably come up this was in addition to the existing French drain system that um is out there um that was required by conservation so that already exists on the plans here um we're not changing that required to put that in this is just another measure um for that as well um some of the uh coordination that we've had with DPW was relative to Foundation drains um and not having those tie into Myrtle or fit Avenue um so um most of the Lots as currently proposed on this plan set do not tie in they daylight or go out back um and we feel confident that we can get the couple remainder Lots tied in so those won't go to fit and Myrtle Avenue um however U the best uh course we believe with the yard drains is to have that tie in and come around and do tie into that storm water infrastructure um and then um one of the items or a couple items I think that come up um from a Butters or Neighbors in the town um was the existing water on Blueberry Lane um and during our site walk actually we kind of met down in this corner over here um and there was talks about some you know standing water here um where our proposed driveway is um so we took that feedback to Heart um and relooked at this intersection and are now um proposing some catch Basin down by this corner here um being out there on site it looked definitely flat um and the applicant is going to be doing some you know utility Connections in here and we have the opportunity to um reduce that impact But ultimately was decided to move catch basins which were a little further up on site closer to this intersection um to reduce the possibility of standing water kind of down in that corner um the second area that I think came up during our first um meeting was runoff from the school which is located up in this area here um so during the field visit we took a look at that and the storm water you know a visual observation of the the school back here and kind of what was happening so one of the updates that we did is take a look at that area see where it was coming out and it's kind of just like a flared end section um up on this slope here um and you know during rain events activates sometimes so we took a look at that flow where it comes on to our development um and then actually increase the storm water yard drain infrastructure back here to be able to capture that runoff um potentially from what we could see um out in the field um so that's one of the updates that we made here one of the items um that Bobby and I have been working on is um groundwater recharge um on this develop M and um trying to do the max um extent practicable on site here um so what we did here is introduce um storm water Chambers on each of the individual lots see if I can get a better picture here hopefully there we go um so you can see these Chambers here on these Lots um and the idea there is to collect um clean runoff from the proposed roofs and recharge that back into the ground um and then the other way we're getting volume not recharge but um uh to clean the water is the water quality units down here by the um intersections and then ultimately into the detention basins which are proposing improvements um to them in themselves and get them kind of back up to where they were um when they initially proposed um so so um with that being said um we're not quite meeting the recharge calculations um um but that is due to the um existing conditions on the site um so not a lot of great opportunities um due to the type of soil that is out here um it's largely a c and d type soil which isn't great to promote infiltration um but we did incorporate everywhere that we could um and toll did test Pits on all these different Lots so we have a good idea of where we would be able to infiltrate or not infiltrate here um and then the last item um we just wanted to bring up to is um maintenance um it is a little unique as this is a lot subdivision and just making sure um where everything is um you know who's ultimately going to be resp responsible for these um different areas um so just put together a quick little exhibit here kind of for visual um so the blue represents kind of the the yard drains and French drain systems on there so those would go under um an easement plan um and that would be maintained by the homeowners association out here um everything in green would be the roadways and the existing basins which doesn't change um from the the condition today that would be U maintained by the town and then the last one is the orange ones which are all these little um subdivis or excuse me um subsurface systems and that would be maintained by the individual homeowner um so that is a quick uh recap of everything that's going on and kind of the improvements uh that have been made here um but happy to answer any questions that anyone else has um or Ted if I missed anything that you wanted to bring out nothing for me I think it it' probably be good to have uh Bobby go over his review yes thanks Ted that's just I was just going to ask if um Bob I think um as we've often said we rely a lot on you and and your professional uh guidance here as um none of us are Professional Engineers so um if you would be willing to share uh your most recent review and letter and um my ask is um just to highlight uh the major discrepancies that you've highlighted and and have been addressed and if there's anything specific that is um not yet closed out with the applicant um then we can get some measure as to what's left to do and um potentially if we need to make a a decision on it then we can do so sure thank you uh can you hear me yep I can hear you good so yeah we went through U like three iterations of commment resolution letters with the applicant and met on several occasions um the the resolution letters about 11 pages on 24 major comments that that we feel were were addressed um there's still two items uh that we want to bring to the board's attention um we'd be Happ I can share my screen we can go through the letter if you'd like or we can just touch on the major items um um yeah why don't you why don't you share your screen uh like I said we don't need to go through all of them and um we've all had the opportunity to review that letter but um think particularly on the two that you're looking for some input it'd be helpful to have the visual reference sure just share my screen can you see my screen yep um see so I think it's mentioned in in several comments um but essentially the the plans don't currently meet uh minimum standard three for recharge um we do recommend that they look for for additional opportunities to to infiltrate on site uh we do understand that there are there is shallow groundwater poor soils um and that through the Conservation Commission approvals that um groundwater and child groundwater and groundwater impacts to adjacent properties has been identified as a concern um but we we do recommend that additional low impact development uh bmps be reviewed for for implementation throughout the the project site so that's one of the the comments sorry Bob let's let's let's talk about that one before we move on um Matt what what's your Matt or Ted for that matter um why not conform to that standard or expectation um so typically for for like this um you know um we do our we do you know what we can to provide and meet the recharge requirement um but uh we can only do as much as what um the area is going to allow us to do so the C and D type soils um have very limited um infiltrating properties to them which would allow us to infiltrate um and then um again with the high groundw out here again you won't be able to infiltrate as much with that so we did you know test Pits on every single site to look at areas where we could install subsurface systems everywhere um and we put it in everywhere that it was appropriate to stall and that we would feel confident that would infiltrate so um the regulation um says you know you know there are circumstances where you you don't have to meet it but you have to prove that um the area doesn't promote infiltration and and that's what we feel this uh development fits between the type of soils and then the high groundwater here so just for clarity especially for the homeowners on Blueberry Lane um what happens to that water that is not uh infiltrated uh well that would be sorry goad I didn't buy say something that would be storm yeah yeah you can answer man sorry yeah so it'd be storm water runoff so that's why we're incorporating all of the um yard drains and the French drain system that was previously proposed um so we can um we can collect that um but the recharge requirement specifically is about collecting runoff from your site and putting it back into the ground um in sense does that answer your question yes so it's kind of a I mean I hate the expression belt and suspenders but um for the water that that isn't uh absorbed back on on site then it is effectively through the storm water system that's designed it effectively moves the water into a drainage system that takes it elsewhere is that fair yep yeah yeah the the minimum standards designed to replicate the existing groundwater condition so essentially we don't want to deplete that Aqua for or any of the adjacent Wetlands so you want to try to put the same amount of water back into the groundwater that the existing site currently does um and that's what you're trying to mimic not meeting that standard means that you're actually removing groundw and that there'd be less ground there would be less less volume of water infiltrated into the ground understanding that there may be competing interests in reviewing the Conservation Commission uh conditions and beta's previous peer review that was completed it sounds like groundwater is a concern or is an issue out there currently um for some of the abing property owners so meeting that standard or or yeah replicating that condition may not be the maximum extent may may be the better condition here or maybe the better uh better route uh sorry Bob can you restate that last part sure so possibly allowing them to to meet this maximum extent practicable condition might be preferred in this in this case might be preferred for the homeowners and the abutters correct as opposed to recharging the existing site with all the water that falls down on it correct any um I just I think it's probably easier to deal with these one at a time um questions or comments about this from the board or if people have uh immediate reaction as to whether they're they're comfortable with uh the applicants and and how they're addressing this do the chair I just had one yeah sure go ahead Jane I noticed when um the folks were doing the presentation by the way that's very helpful um there were several um most of the homes on the upper part of the U map showing the homes showed French drains but there were a couple on the corners that the homes did not incorporate these the suggested French drains I'm wondering why what was the reason behind that as opposed to enclosing the whole development with French drains on that the North and South Northwest and East sides Matt would you like yeah I can answer that um so we we mimicked the existing um proposed plans um on where they wanted them to be installed um and I wasn't specifically involved with that but essentially all the front strains are located um where any runoff is coming off of our site so on a couple sides water's coming onto our site so it doesn't make sense to have a front strain system there um but it's where um the toppo you know suggests that the the rainfall and and runoff is going to leave our development does that make sense it does but um taking into consideration the previous conversation about absorbing um or deflecting other waters would it be beneficial to think about extending those French drains or not I don't I don't know anything really about this I'm just thinking outside the box here if I could maybe um I think that a lot of the yard drainage systems that we have and the road Network itself will will act in that fashion as well so anything that um maybe you're thinking about getting captured from call it page up and I think that's the East um ultimately does get captured in some of you know the infrastructure that is getting installed and we will drain that way as well while not maybe um as formal as the other I think it will act in the same fashion thank you other questions or thoughts through the through the chair uh to the applicant uh well I guess I'm trying to understand is how how how was the future because this whole terrain and I've talked to a few residents that you know live in the area not only when we did our sidewalk but also folks that live you know up pill and there's concerns of res from residents about you know runoff from future you know development and I'm just curious to what extent did uh I think it's called charleswood is the new name but did did additional development farther up the hill factor in your design if any at all um and if that should be considered or or if we can't as part of the scope of this discussion asked for that to be considered um there's just been I talked to a lot of folks there's a lot of concern about future development how uh this PL this plan May uh and should factor that growth so Parker I I can take that one and it's a good question um but um and and we're actually going to be discussing it on the next uh the next hearing but long story short uh the charleswood sorry we're not talking about that one yet we're talking about Hopkins but um charleswood school um will be required to manage all of their water uh on their site so um I I realized there might be some skepticism as to whether or not that actually happens but um there will will be a full storm water management plan for that site and the expectation um and you know our peer reviewed Engineers will be reviewing that to make sure that the storm water is managed on their site Gary can I ask a question as an abutter of the school of the representative of the school as a future a butter or soon to be a butter uh for the charleswood school Tim you can ask uh we are a very open group so uh you can ask a question regardless um of the uh of of your potential relation with the project I appreciate that um so um I guess my question is what's the expected impact of runoff to the Future uh school property at 147 uh set back there um with without the extra recharge on site is there anything that I'm going to have to consider as we build that project so um I'll I'll defer to Matt and Ted but I believe that the School site is uphill of the site we're talking about here so um this project should have zero impact on charleswood unless you can figure out a way to make water go uphill I agree okay does that answer your question it does all right any other questions or comments how do people feel I mean I I'm personally comfortable with the recommendation here because I to the comments made earlier if if anything it actually will um help with groundwater uh on the existing Parcels as well as potentially the new Parcels um but if people feel otherwise now is the time to talk about it I to through the chair I as well the EPA has these grants uh for NPS water runoff that enable uh municipalities to be able to secure funding for um uh water mitigation runoff and Improvement and so I don't think like there's twood door and one door decisions and I don't believe this is a one door that once we go through it we can't go back um I just you know Echo some of the sentiments of residents that are down farther uh down the hill that when we did our site walk we you know Gravely concerned and I think that you know through the entire process that the um P Brothers have been I believe they didn't even have to come to us to to to um you know discuss you know some of their plans initially and they've been you know willing participants to seek and you know gauge our you know collaboration so we appreciate that but I don't have concerns and there's also funding mechanisms in the future that we can take advantage of if there needs to be Improvement so um that's my 10 cents for what it's worth all right any any objections to the proposed no objections can I can I just ask a question through the chair though sure of uh has the has the developer like obviously storm water there's a high you you stated there's a high uh water table in this area um and this all these storm water mitigation um things that need to be done to comply with the regulation in general I'm envisioning a scenario where every one of these homes will have a sum pump that'll be running continuously and that water will go out of be pumped out of there's some pump hole in their basement and go back into the ground and it'll just be a continuous cycle because the water can't get that far is that level of like thinking of like are these all these homes going to have some pumps and like where is the water going to go from just the the the basic function of a home has that been considered I can tackle that one sure so I guess two twofold number one um as Matt mentioned we did do a bunch of test pits um through our due diligence out here um and believe that we have all of our homes cited above uh the groundwater table in general um and then number two we also have Foundation drains um designed for all of these homes which are shown on the plans U I know DB uh dpw's comment is that they don't want them tied directly into uh the town owned system but we do have many of them either daylighting or tied into the um Homeowner Association maintained yard drains so our goal as a company really not just on this project but everywhere is to try to have Foundation drains gravity out um rather than some pump out um and all that water as it's design will either daylight um or be routed through the St water system any followup Rob you're muted Rob when you say uh daylight it out like it's it's got to go somewhere so it's got to go to a retention Basin or it's got to go to a uh a low Spot somewhere like where is it going to go so I think ultimately and Matt can probably check me on this but I I would say the vast majority of these homes are connected to the storm water system so ultimately it goes to the detention basins where all of this storm watera is designed to go um for those few that are daylighted um Matt correct me if I'm wrong but I think they all ultimately Gravity from you know reaching daylight to a storm water BMP um and ultimately get into that same system whether it's Overland um or underground directly connected to the storm water system so um Matt correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any of this Daylights directly to neighbors behind us any of the blueberry residents I believe it's all ultimately captured in the stormw system that we're proposing that's correct okay that's that's actually the next comment I wanted to discuss there's actually a a section in your rules and regulations that prohibit uh the perimeter drains or seller drains being tied into the the public system and the DPW at our meeting we had a meeting with the applicant the DPW and the and uh John the planner um they were very adamant against these tie-ins so just something that we want to bring up bring to the board's attention also all right so um I think we already heard from the applicant on that um Matt or Ted do you have anything additional to add on that request to tie these into the storm water management system I think I I just just mention one thing is the the plans that well maybe two things uh first the plans that we show do show three I believe Foundation drains tied directly into the system and we think we have an Avenue to reroute those so that they are not and we can make that change um either as a condition If This Were to move forward or if we need to we can make a plan revision um I think the second part of this is you know we were approached by the town and have heard from all of the Neighbors on blueberry that water is an issue um we've seen that as we've gone to start site work also water is an issue out there and whatever we can do I think to capture and route that water through the storm water system will be beneficial not only for the development itself but also for the existing blueberry neighbors I think a lot of what we're proposing will do that already and the foundation drains um that we're talking about will only supplement that all right thanks Ted um I don't think we have anybody from DPW here um John and I'm not sure if you're comfortable but can you help us understand what the gpw concerns or reservations are with tying those three uh systems Into the Storm Water Management sure um and I'm not going to speak as an expert on this but it's my understanding that those are against D or sorry DPW regulations regarding Municipal storm water so it wouldn't be allowed for their regulations okay and you know I don't know I don't know maybe this is just speculation but um I'm curious if that's just a design principle um because they don't want to just create additional burden and they they want to encourage uh storm water management on site um you know in in general I'm I'm not a fan of of bending regulations to to build more houses um but um in this situation and given all of the issues the Blueberry Lane already has it it makes me question you sort of whether there's a net benefit to this and um but I you know I guess I'm just just curious I mean and again if you can't do that because it's speculation but what are the repercussions of of doing this Beyond a violation of the DPW standards the chair yeah well you can finish your thought Gary you're asking John yeah I'm asking John okay um it basically sets a precedent right if they are allowed to tie into the municipal stormw system then what's to say another development that also has soil issues or drainage issues would not have the same right um and so I think it's just keeping it fair and even across the board that this is the policy no one gets to tie in and therefore the town is not responsible for the water that's coming into the municipal storm water system from a private development um because in our storm water regulations they're intended to treat it on site and uh it's it would be a cost that the town as a whole would have to bear uh and could potentially you know with more drainage um with more rainfall happening and more drainage issues in the future likely uh it could just be something that becomes assumed by some developers to happen in the future and they plan for it and then it's a difficult thing to stop okay thanks John Parker do you have a comment I I think in my I'm not an expert on this but I've been getting deeper on the storm water Rags just because of the work we've had to be doing and had done recently and I think one of the reasons for having on onsite mitigation is to reduce the what the EPA calls uh nonpoint source pollution so they want to try and maintain and not have you know pollution from certain zones run off into others is some of based on the resarch I've been doing again I'm not an expert but I think that that could be part of the reason why uh DPW might not want it um that but just for fre your record there there are funding sources available to be able to help mitigate you know instances like this and I know that especially for the residents of Blueberry Lane to be able to get as much of that offsite as they have already expressed like this is an issue this could be a benefit to you know those folks so I don't know I'm not trying to tell folks how to think on this but I think that for many of the residents they don't want the water to go downhill and this could potentially help with that mitigation yeah yep Matthew what I guess Gary I'm kind of with you here in terms of like this seems like a net benefit is may be something that as a town we'd want to try and figure out how do we get more of that water into the storm drains anyway even if there weren't a development here just to help the people that live in that area um I mean is this would DPW how would we go about doing that and would this just be could we avoid setting a precedent by kind of uh I don't know having a statement that you know this would be work that we we'd have planned anyway as a town um I'm just not sure either how we would go about um getting that done without causing any problems down the road um yeah I I um you know I I think uh someone once gave me the guidance um in these types of issues that the rules are your friend and when we start deviating from them it can create a lot of additional challenges down the road and I hear you that um you know this may just be a way of you know it's not going to it's not going to either cause or solve the problem but you know even if it's something you know if it's you know some percentage of of reduced risk of water then for the residents that could be a good thing but again what what makes me nervous is you know how do we how do we consider something like this um and I I I don't have a mechanism for for that right now um I mean the alternative is always to you know in case in point um you know they've they've presented two different options here um I see Ted has raised his hand maybe Ted has a suggestion as to how we can avoid setting precedent here um I I think I think that I do um and I I can't say that I'm an expert on the regulation but if I'm reading U what Bobby's note says that the DPW regulation is that the perimeter drain and cell drains shall not be connected into manhole and catch patient structures I think that we can accomplish everything here without doing that I think that we can tie all our footing drains into the yard and area drains that are owned and operated by the homeowners association we have three that are shown that are not but I I think I stated before that we can route those across other Lots we create we have would have to create e mins but we can do it such that those three tie into other Homeowner Association owned and maintained um infrastructure and we can avoid you know uh uh tripping over this particular regulation I'm not sure how to raise my hand but um I I think the the intent of the regulation is to is that the public system manages public storm water and not private storm water right I think routing them through the the homeowners association's infrastructure and eventually discharging into the the public system you're still discharging to the public system I think the intent is for these perimeter sell drains to to discharge to grade and and not contribute to the the public system but the the counter to that would be that if we pump them to the surface right they'll flow across land and ultimately find their way into the road drainage or the French drains that are designed to capture this water anyway I I think ultimately it all makes it way into the system it's just the method for which it does it and we're trying to be as efficient as possible um to do that and I guess I'll leave it at that some some volume will be removed if it discharges to grade some volume will infiltrate back into the ground it may be picked up by yes other other perimeter drains on site um but yeah without meeting the recharge standard uh and with the amount of subdrainage and under drains proposed I I would recommend that they discharge to grade as much as possible all right uh planning board just looking for kind of a think we've probably have a sense as to what we're looking at here um just looking for quick reaction as to if people have a a preference or strong opinions of of One Versus the other to the chair sure sure Jane go ahead I think that we should um abide by the rules where we can I think that we would be opening a can of worms going down the road if we made an exception in this case um it seems to me as though they could recharge the surface or somehow tie the pipes the French drains into retention systems even if it you know costs a little bit more to go through other people's properties to get to those retention basins sorry Jane I on one hand you're saying recharge the surface on the other hand you're talking about easements to connect them which not I don't think we should tie it into the town system there are other avenues to take care of the okay but you are supportive of tying it into the homeowner yes storm water system yeah I think that's where it belongs okay so the argument from Bob is that even if it ties into the homeowner storm storm water system it will still make its way to the public system right Bob yes okay yeah that eventually discharges to the public system eventually ties into the public system yeah yeah so it's could be that it would be delayed and be absorbed through the ground and just take longer than if it were tied in directly to the town water system it's it's going to be piped in either condition so it' be piped through private infrastructure or public infrastructure structure so it's going to get there quickly either way um R the chair I have a question sure Rob I'm I guess not sure if uh it I was under the assumption that whether private storm water systems could be tied into town systems was in the purview of the DPW and we didn't have like it wasn't our Authority to say go ahead or not go ahead I I I guess I don't know I'm asking it as a question yeah so I guess your question is even if we were to say yes go ahead and tie it in that might not be our perview to to say that exactly you're suggesting yes that's what I'm I'm I'm that's what I was thinking and I'm saying and trying to think out loud and socialize that yeah so I I'll send that over to to John um John can you provide any guidance if if we if that's even within our Authority as the planning board to recommend that if we chose to I mean the planning board isn't beholden to DPW regulations but the applicant might have problems if they have to get any permits from DPW um or recommendation for accepting the road in the the future if DPW is not happy with how it's being designed and if it's not for their policies then I don't think it's the planning board's responsibility to govern those policies but um you know there needs to be some crossover collaboration within the town at some point um so I think DPW has made it clear that they don't want this to happen and it's it's up to the planning board whether they want to listen to that recommendation or that comment um but yeah I don't see why it would be yeah so so I I'm going to recommend that we uphold the dpw's recommendation and the recommendation of our um uh peer reviewed engineer and um you know I I can appreciate both sides of this but um I I know DPW always and I think this is true across municipalities uh in Massachusetts at least that that we really really want to avoid tying these types of drains um into bigger public systems and um you know I I just in respect to our professionals that that that we hire and pay um I'm having a hard time coming up with a really solid reason to to go against them here so that's that's my perspective um that's what I would recommend um do anybody from the board want to push back on that or do they feel otherwise okay so I I think uh just based on the lack of verbal comments and the few visuals that I could see I'm I'm seeing that that our preference is to to not tie into the system and that the uh the those be managed um on the um specific uh properties themselves um Bob I I want to be respectful of time I know that um we have our school folks that are waiting for us um any other highlights or particular points in in in your peer revieww that are that are worth us um discussing or reviewing now those were the two major items uh we did have yeah we had about 24 other comments um but everything else was was worked through with the applicant and their engineer okay okay so I think with the guidance today I think we' we've worked through the the peer review piece to that Bob you agree Ted you agree okay y so um as I said I I I know we're making progress here but I I I am going to ask that that we continue this to our next meeting um just we're actually already over our a lot of time here um and maybe now is a fair time to ask the board um our next scheduled meeting um would be annual town meeting on May 6th of course which we're not going to meet to discuss this um the next meeting after that is currently scheduled for May 20th which is also election day so we would not have a meeting there um and so based on that schedule we wouldn't meet again on this until June which is a long ways out so um I'm curious to the board if um folks would be open to a May 13th meeting um which uh not only for for this project but my guess is um as we progress on the Hopkins school project um might be uh appreciated by the applicants as well um when members of the board be open to that May 13th meeting date yep absolutely yeah thank you yeah that's fine okay all right um then if people are okay with it and um Ted would you be are you open to continuing to May 13th yes uh just I guess procedurally I would just want to clarify how how this would ultimately come to a close would would you potentially vote on the 13th uh I anticipate we would be I mean we're we're through the bulk of it um we've still got some work to do in terms of condition review and decision CR you know some other uh uh formalities and whatnot but um realistically we've got probably a half hour left and then and then we should be able to wrap up so yeah I'm great to continue to the 13th and I appreciate you um holding that meeting okay all right so I'll entertain a motion to continue this hearing to May 13 2024 and joh do we need to continue the decision as well okay so we would continue the decision to mayst so so moved Rob second all right ass me no further discussion Rob how do you vote Rob yes Jane Jane yes Alise Elise yes Matthew yes Parker yes and Gary is a yes as well so um Bob Ted and Matt thank you guys appreciate it and um we'll see you in a couple weeks great thank you thank you all right um so as I mentioned the our last public hearing tonight um is in a butter I'm going to recuse myself so um I will turn this one over to Rob Benson our vice chair to um facilitate the uh hearing so I think I'd like to entertain a motion to open the public hearing for let me get the wording right here uh open the public hearing for 90 and 104 Hayden row major project site plan and storm water management permit Hopkins lower Middle School Hopkin and school department so moved second all right uh Matthew how do you vote Yes Parker yes Elise yeah Jane yes and Rob is a yes all right so I'm G to follow uh our agenda uh our typical outline uh where I'm gonna ask the applicant for project introduction and basic review of The Proposal osed uh project who's going to be speaking I see I see some I see Carol kavana I see Susan here Ashley is gonna be uh kicking off the project introduction I saw your hand raised is that correct no I'm sorry I will be seing uh Steve Powers will be kicking off the introduction don't steal your thunder Steve awesome I appreciate that um good evening everyone my name is Steve Powers I'm with samot Consultants with a civil engineer for the project um we we do have a number of people as you can imagine that um are on tonight and they will be uh speaking I'll go through a presentation um just want to introduce some of the team members that uh will be talking we have Chris Eberly um he's the owner's project manager from uh vertex uh Dan collie is the architect uh from Perkins Eastman um Ashley as as you know um she is the landscape architect she's from Traverse and I saw Tim person um on the call he is the uh director of buildings and grounds for the hopkington public schools um Tim does not have a speaking part tonight unless he wants to um but um you know if there's any questions the board might have specific to the school buildings in grounds um he is the person to speak to so um with that I'll I'll briefly turn it over to uh Chris Everly to introduce the project and then I will pick it up as we go through the presentation so Steve we also have Dr Carol Kavanaugh and Susan Roth mck who are here from the school department as well um so as many of you may know this project started with a systemwide study in the end of 2022 um to make a decision about the how the now charleswood project would be distributed in terms of grades um coming out of that decision it was decided that um by building a three uh 234 school at the new charleswood it alleviated a lot of the overcrowding concerns but it didn't address the overcrowding that currently exists at the Hopkins school the Hopkins school was built for 628 students and as of the last two weeks it's gained two to be at 600 and uh 68 it continues to grow and we are anticipating that um this addition will be designed for 82 students um the addition consists of a 28,000 ft addition that is going to be added onto the overall building making the total School 106,000 square feet we're planning to build it as a phased construction so we have brought on Commodore Builders as our phased uh or as our um construction manager and we will be going to town meeting for an article to fund the project so I'm going to turn it over to uh is it Steve or Ashley to speak about the project sure so I'll I'll start off um good evening everyone again my name is Steve Powers I'm the civil engineering for the for the project can everyone see the screen yes I'll take that as a yes okay thank you um so uh just to start off uh as Chris went through um here's the existing schools is an aerial U pulled off um we have circulation that uh that that comes from the from the north um down into the site um for the existing school and then a loop road that continues out around um back up to the north and around um um back out to the the main route that connects to Hayden row or Route 85 that that is shared with the uh with the high school um here's a site Locus um just to orient everyone again main route coming into the site off of Hayden row um the Hopkins Middle High School is in this area um the Hopkins Elementary School is right down in this area and again Loop Road continues through all the way out this is the existing conditions um plan was done by BSC uh group The surveyor for the project just to zoom in a little bit um just to give an idea of of where everything is um the project uh school was was built and constructed in the late 90s uh it was approved to the hopkington um Town boards uh the main School building is located here as I previously mentioned the connecting Road up to the shared um hopkington High School Middle uh Middle School Road is is up to the north um currently we we do have traffic that comes through um it's parent drop off in the rear of the project uh comes through as you can see with the directional arrows um through this way and then back out uh parking is located some parking is located to the rear and this is essentially where the the current parent drop off is current Bus drop off continues down Southeast and then comes to the front of the school um drop off before it heads out the major parking uh for the area and for the school is located in the southwest corner um so with the proposed development what we've looked to do is is maintain the existing developed area and sort of use that area and reconfigure it to one put the addition on that Chris Chris mentioned earlier and also to you know preserve the outdoor activity space um Ashley will'll go through some some playground areas um some additional Hardscape and Fields um later um couple things I do want to mention we do have existing storm water management system on the property um this was again done and approved back in the late 90s by the original design engineer there's a stor water basin in this area um to the north as well as uh to this area to the West uh we are looking to continue to use these two areas um additionally I do want to mention um you can see a number of wetland slags uh to the north and west of the project we're currently um we do have a notice 10 on file with the Conservation Commission uh we had our first meeting um week before last um or I should say last week um and we are looking to again limit development and any kind of impacts to the Wetland resource areas and uh Associated buffer zones uh this is a site prep plan essentially the gray that you do see is the area of disturbance um that we're working through again we're looking to reconfigure the site to um to expand queuing off of the main Loop Road um add the much needed building addition and building space for the students uh reconfigure and add some parking um to provide additional parking on site to accommodate the increase in students as well as uh reconfigure the athletic fields and and outdoor play areas and this is essentially the the plan the site layout out um that we're talking about so um just to start with a couple of the um the revisions um and and proposed site Redevelopment um this is the proposed building Edition um it is located almost entirely to the west of the existing school here um I do want to make note that there is a modular building structure that we are proposing here U the timing associated with this um may may be staggered so this this not all go in at the same time um this is just additional space that we want to make sure that um it is is accounted for and we do want to present um everything that we do have um in the plan now to the to the planning board so just to start to the rear um or um north of the school we are expanding the uh proposed uh parent drop off in queuing areas to the rear we're adding additional parking um as you can see um the original parking ends um right about in this area here we're looking to expand that parking and expand the queuing um Lanes all the way to the West uh to circle around for parent drop off uh to contain more of parent drop off into the site and not onto uh the main Loop Road um traffic will continue to be one way um coming out and then down to the south and east um similar ly we're trying to keep similar bus uh queuing um bus routes through um through the front of the property against buses will queue through through this area here um drop off the main drop off at the front of the school and then continue out um we are maintaining this Access Road um to the west of the of the building uh this is strictly for emergency purposes uh for the most part it'll be a dual use of emergency uh purposes if um emergency fire or Services need to to to access this this area of school we do want to provide full access around the school but for the most part we are trying to um also use this as outdoor space again trying to make um try to make this area of Redevelopment one contained to the to the existing area that's um currently being used the existing limits of disturbance and and um and make it more efficient again we're adding uh additional parking here along the road um all the way up and then continuing on um up into the Northeast ending here uh we do have Ada parking both in the rear that we're proposing in these areas as well as the front of the building and we are proposing 14 electric vehicle charging uh spaces and the uh dual charges for each of those spaces here and then to the South and West uh grading will remain relatively the same there's no substantial changes in grading we are reconfiguring it a little bit uh to accommodate the athletic field and it push the grades uh a little bit further to the north and west to accommodate the proposed building addition uh utilities again remaining relatively the same um as far as routing goes we are extending water um around the edges of the building just to make sure we're providing a full loop all the way around the building um and then adding a couple additional fire hydrants uh for the expanded area and then sanitary we are expanding as well um down to this area and essentially using the existing sanitary infrastructure currently there is an existing Pump Station um in this area here we are looking to reuse it and then there is um some expansion of electrical services to the rear and again to serve the proposed building addition so this is the um this is the storm water plan what we tried to do is use as much of the existing storm water infrastructure as possible um and for the new um for the new development the increase of impervious area which is is just shy of an acre um we looking to um you know pick up roof leaders uh from the existing proposed building addition and then add additional storm conveyance structure um for the rear parking areas to pick pick up uh the additional runoff uh route it through this new conveyance system uh treated in storm water quality units and then our larger recharge system is currently located in this area here um we're looking at a recharge system of um right now arched Chambers surrounded by Stone uh it's relatively common for underground systems and um the advantage of using this uh this this area here is we're able to accommodate the the storm water management requirements um from the storm water management policy uh for Massachusetts as well as the town's uh storm water bylaw and then also reuse the space for athletic fields well um this area here is a currently a geothermal well location um we're currently um I'm not an expert in geothermal Wells um but we're currently looking to we did do a test well and we're looking to space these um throughout the the the uh property um in a in a efficient way um as as part of our sustainability um actions throughout the project um I can tell you we did as part of the storm water management design we did go out and do um we've done a couple rounds of soil testing on site um as opposed to the the previous project um which is east of of Hayden row we did find a little bit better material a little bit um lower groundwater um so we are looking to recharge uh fully um the the existing increase in the development in the impervious area so with that um I can turn it over to Ashley for the uh the Landscaping portion of it but I'm happy to answer any questions in the meantime or we can certainly save them to the end and answer them all at once Steve I'm just gonna U make a few Corrections so what Steve was referring to as the back of the building is the front of the building and the back where the parent drop off is the back of the building is where the kids drop off just not a not a bad mistake Steve just so people's orientation sure on there um a couple other quick things was um I believe the building was designed for 600 students uh and we currently have 688 students in the building not 668 so and I only make that correction to to let you guys know that 20 kids is essentially the size of another classroom that we're using so it feels like a small number but it does make a difference so just those quick um kind of uh corrections but but keep going Steve you're doing great can I just it was designed for 600 and now what's what number is it at it's at 688 688 and with the proposed Edition what would be what is the the combined School design for in student population we're trying to get to 80 82 82 82 okay and we just picked up 20 kids so it's growing um so unless is that I'm happy to answer any site specific questions but Ashley can take it from here and and again we can we're happy to answer any questions at the end just one clarification Steve the um I think when we submitted the drawings we were considering an underd drain system for the field but we are no longer pursuing that specifically just the underd drain at the field correct you mean the storm water recharge system at the field no no the storm water recharge system is still there there was a under drain to alleviate puddles in the athletic field that was the part that we moved away from that's that's correct Chris thank you so much and we can speak to that a little bit more too but thanks Steve for going through that so is a part of the improved circulation increased parking uh we also have some new amenities on site in terms of outdoor play areas outdoor classrooms and outdoor spaces dedicated to PE we've had quite a few programming meetings with the school and one of the big things we found out is that recess um and play can happen and PE can actually happen at the same time so we really need to provide two spaces for those uses so that they don't interfere with each other so some of the nice features of this plan that you see in front of you is a more of a recess Zone has a new playground uh with age appropriate play and climbers things with a little bit more difficulty you'll see that right to the left of the emergency drive it also includes a half basketball hoop right down below that and you have these really strategic Amphitheater seats so they're just really low seat walls built into the grade at that backside of the module and then that offers Outdoor Classroom opportunity and seating for anything happening there um we're also taking full advantage of that emergency drive when it's closed off during the day uh for use with Hardscape games so that's a really great spot to have those um and then the PE zones are to the right of the emergency Drive um between the Outdoor Classroom PE really needed an outdoor Hardscape area this could be used as very flexible space anything from pickle ball to outdoor games um to any sort of training could take place there so that's the reason you see that in that area and then previously on the site that there was a ball field um within those program meetings we realized that was not critical for the program of the school currently however a multi-use field would be much more applicable and usable so that's what you're seeing there and around that you have a walking loop I won't call it an actual track but it is an asphalt paved Loop uh that can again be used for PE um and even recess but very very flexible space and I think usable uh for many different groups I think Chris what he was mentioning previously was on some of these schemes you'll note some uh striations or markings shown in this lawn area of the field um we did initially anticipate we might have some sort of subsurface drainage for that field when we intended there to be irrigation uh currently there's no irrigation planned on those fields so if you see those stripes that was uh for an older drainage system that will not be installed um and just before actually uh Steve if you don't mind jumping forward I think we can move to a little bit of a blow up of this scheme um yes this is great uh just in terms of security there's fencing provided around um the southern portion of the field and around the back it doesn't need to Loop the entire area but we're really just creating a barrier between any sort of athletic uh activity happening on that field and our sort of parking movements and again like Steve noticed emergency access Drive will be gated as well and this gives you a little bit of a blow up of that outdoor playround space as well up in the top of of this image um Outdoor Classroom space has also been provided um there's two locations there's one towards the rear of the school um where Steve has this cursor now a new outdoor vegetable garden vegetable gardens are currently um happening on site um we're taking this moment to revisit that doing it a little in a little bit of a different way where there's actually seating next to it too so we can take full advantage of that space as an outdoor classroom new outdoor Plaza spaces servicing both entries for both the parents and Bus drop drop offs uh with outdoor seating um and looking at incorporating shade in all those areas with outdoor trees um and then around the site you'll see um quite a bit of planting we're really focusing on maintaining some of those existing trees which you'll see to the page to the top of the page there there are existing trees located along the existing um parent drop off those will all remain um and then we're just adding on to that with new shade trees being located in the parking lot areas and along the sidewalks and around the entire school also focusing on New Foundation plantings and um increasing some of the restoration plantings in the Disturbed areas and this is specifically located in the one space where we have the new parking lot that is infringing in a buffer zone um so we've been working with Conservation Commission to look at those plantings and making some revisions based on their comments but that area is pro proposed to be um renovated new native plantings and species um for that space and then across the site just amenities benches new bike racks um and a really just new um overall appearance and a lot of graded added um pieces to the school so um there is a bio retention area I think Steve noted that that's page right over there we are increasing the planting in that area so any Disturbed areas are in that perimeter uh will be revegetated with new native habitat and this is just another blow up of that playground space where you see the PE Zone which is an asphalt hardscaped Flex space Outdoor Classroom with outdoor seating and then you have your recess area with the basketball hoops Amphitheater seating and outdoor play um our electrical engineer is not with us today but um there will be new sight lighting around the school in terms of pole lights and safety lighting um to the east of the school where there's been no modifications uh pole lights will stay in place however the rest of the parking areas will be uh received new pole lights both double and single fixtures uh there was a photometric included within your package and all those lights will be dark sky compliant with no overflow onto adjacent properties and again happy to take any questions comments now or we could um keep going and take them at the end why don't I open up to the planning board are there any as we go are there any questions now or we you can ask questions at the end but if there are any currently I know I have some but I was going to save them for the uh the end but uh up to you guys I'm good save for the end all right why don't we keep keep going and uh we'll we'll ask any questions we have at the end of the presentation okay um so the next we included were exterior elevations Dan I didn't know if you wanted me to there's a couple sheets that I left in here for you yeah that's fine I could I could speak to these um for the exterior elevations we are looking to not directly mimic the Hopkins building get which is a as many of you have probably seen it it's has a lot of brick patterning and a lot of different colors on it um what Steve is showing right or zoomed in on right here is the gymnasium elevation which is the south side where the Student Bus drop off is that would be the you can kind of see the tiny little letters there on the canopy that would say Hopkins Intermediate School um the gym masks and then behind it in the uh background there the pitched roof of the classroom side of the addition so if you go down to the addition which is at last finally yep that elevation there um the idea here is to um again not directly mimic because we don't we want to have less glazing in the uh in the addition we don't need as much and one of the things we try to strive for now from a sustainability standpoint is to maximize the daylight and minimize the amount of glass um so that's reflected here and we're going to use pull in some of those brick collar to try to not mimic the building but create a um kind of a harmony with the existing building as best we can again the pitch roof to again kind of Caren back to the existing but not create like just a carbon copy but a um an addition that kind of you know pays homage to it but has its own identity okay these close-up [Music] elevations y so those no it doesn't so the modu you're seeing that West End elevation module that the intention there does the down below to the uh over to the right so those that is the will be coming over from the Elwood those are currently stationed at the Elmwood they were designed to um look like the modular at the Hopkins because the intention was for those modular to eventually make their way over the Hopkins so once um Elmwood opens or charleswood opens um the intention would be to bring those modular over and snap them on to the end of the classroom Edition and create uh giving four more classrooms to the to the Hopkins building so with this we did oh go ahead Chris so I'll take this part um so as I mentioned the town has engaged with commodor Builders to develop um Logistics plans and service the construction manager throughout construction they've developed a traffic plan that would um first and foremost prohibit deliveries during um drop off and pickup times to mitigate traffic the um deliveries would or the subs would be instructed to um drop off at the 85 exit of 495 and come up towards hopkington from the South they would turn in the Hopkins drive and rather than pass by the school they would utilize the Loop Road that is two-way traffic all the way to the lot um on your bottom left there and then they would um communicate with the site to have managed traffic during the one-way portion that is shown in blue there to ensure that um any traffic that is coming around the school is not in conflict with the deliveries we think that this is an efficient way to get a lot of that construction traffic in and out of the site without having to visit uh heavily student frequented areas um the construction schedule is offset from the charleswood project by one year we would be um pending the a successful vote beginning some site improvements at the beginning of um July and that would largely be to create the asphalt that makes up the parking at the top largely so that it can serve as 2/3 parking as we take over a portion of the site for the construction fence that's shown here and also so that onethird of it can serve as a flat play area that can be managed um during the winter with snow removal so that we can also have a remaining grass area where the students will be able to utilize that for recess we go to the next slide uh construction will start in Earnest in uh September October they'll mobilize a little bit for the site and obviously create that um Jersey Barrier and pavement area to extend the parking but then it will largely remain like this until the end of the school year um this will allow them to make Headway building the addition as well as constructing the geothermal Wells and allow them to um still operate as a fully occupied school for the entire year you can see certain modifications we're making at the parking with the goal that we would never reduce the existing parking that is available on site if you go to the next slide as we move into the sort of second phase from the summer of 2025 until February of 2026 this is when we'll be completing the addition so it'll be ready for occupancy we'll be developing a lot of the site work that is close to the building as well as continuing to develop during the summer some of that um site work at the entrance and um wrapping around the fence that will make up the parking that will become available to staff in February of 20126 in February 2026 we'll get a temporary certificate of occupancy for the addition and that will allow the current um multi-purpose space that's planned as the um extra half gym to be utilized as a temporary cafeteria while we do extensive Renovations in the current gy and cafeteria um that will occur during the school year from February 2026 and you flip to the next slide through completion in August 2026 um during this period while we're doing that interior renovation we'll also be finishing off the remaining third of the site um as outlined by the orange fence here that will allow us to open for that period of time the entire front parking lot and greatly expand the amount of available parking um and then we'll utilize the summer of 26 to really finish off a lot of those occupied areas um while students are out of the building so that we'll be opening as a five or as a four five School in 20126 as I mentioned um we're one year removed from the Elmwood project so the school will actually open without the modular at the end of 202 or in August of 2026 and it'll operate as a 45 as it does today for one year the following year when Elmwood moves in to the charleswood school the modular will become available at the end of that following summer and uh separate from the current funding authorization will um if the need is still there be moving the modular over to the end of the new edition we included it in this site plan application because um we were encouraged by John to submit a full and complete um site permit package but we did want to note that that modular piece is at the tail end and maybe done as a separate project so um with that we're happy to uh answer any questions uh that the board might have why don't we have uh our principal planner give a staff report first and then we'll come back uh with questions I know I know I have several so John are you are you prepared to give a staff report yeah there's uh through the chat there's not a ton to report on at this point um we are still uh looking to get the peerreview inspector on we've we've outreached uh to them we just need some administrative stuff to to happen so they have not had a chance review at this point um but and I don't believe we've received any comments from other departments um otherwise it's major site plan uh due to the gross floor area and the addition of the parking um and it is a storm water management permit as they are disturbing more than an acre of land so those are the two permits that would need to be approved and the criteria that would need to be met um and that's pretty much the extent of my comments at this point but once we get some comments from other departments and from the peer review consultant I may have more John is it appropriate at this time to just note the waivers that we're requesting for the board I don't think it would hurt okay um so so we are looking for three waivers for the site plan review and two waivers for the storm water management permit um for the site plan review we are looking for uh waiver of administrative fees um because it is a town project it's a it's a school project um and we are also looking for a waiver from the environment environmental impact assessment um this is an un operating school um it's been operating since the late 90s uh we are currently in front of the uh Conservation Commission as I previously mentioned for the notice intent um so the environmental impacts um of of the uh uh Wetlands resource areas that exist behind or to the north of the school are being considered um and again we are in front of you for a stor Water Management permit so we intend to meet all uh the requirements and regulations of both State uh d as well as the town and then the last is the community and financial impact uh again this is an uh operating existing School uh the use will will continue we're just expanding the use a little bit um and then as far as storm water management permit again the administrative fees we're looking um to uh request a waiver from the board and then the uh the last one is we are requesting um completion charity uh be waved for this project uh because it is a school project a town project we fully intend to um build and construct everything that's being proposed um and hopefully approved at some point um as shown on the plants so that's those are the waivers we're looking for at this time thanks Steve uh we typically and this is um uh question for John we typically go through our our review process before voting on any of these waivers even administrative fees that's that's what we should do here correct correct all right I'd like to open it up to the board to ask any questions uh as we have uh Matthew why don't you kick us off I see your hand is raised yeah more so just for for timing since this is going in front of town meeting for budgeting is there any time constraints or anything we need to consider before then or uh that's all separate obviously um if [Music] the they do not need uh planing board approval to ask for Budget uh to get a budgetary approval and if they if it was to fail at town meeting obviously they would have they would have to come back to the drawing board on what they're going to do next so our approval doesn't impact the town meeting article go ahead Elise thank you um I just wanted to um check is the amount that's being asked for in town meeting that we're voting on it does that cover everything that you guys proposed in this presentation yes at this time we believe that um we'll be finalizing that amount we're currently in an estimating cycle for 60% CDs and we'll be finalizing that amount in the coming days so that we may um amend it uh potentially down or let it remain the same but we're currently asking for 48 m550 th000 at town meeting and um and that is the um funding for the proposed design as we've presented it it that does not to if my understanding is correct that does not include moving the modular classrooms that might H that may happen at the end of the project correct that currently excludes the modular classroom and the immediately related Landscaping that is around it we wouldn't we obviously wouldn't put plants in against a building that's not in place yet yep thank you so um just I think everybody just has some general interest because it's a school and schools are obviously super important in the town of Hopkinton and probably every town so I have uh some general questions uh it sounds like the new edition is going to have a gym or maybe half of a gym is that correct do we have an interior plan in the deck Steve um we do not I can probably bring one up if you want to start speaking to so as um as part of the programming effort we used the um the msba guidelines as a rough outline in establishing the number of spaces that needed to be added to accommodate the student growth Chris do you want me to share my plan yeah if you if you have available Dan yeah I do great okay everybody see that nope not yet not no yep yes got it so as you can see um to to meet the um programming needs we need three separate gym spaces so a typical gymnasium will serve as two gym spaces so we have a multi-purpose room which is a long narrow high ceiling space that would facilitate you know games other than basketball it could be um running it could be tossing a ball back and forth it could be a transverse wall along the the bottom of the um the space and so that creates um the temporary cafeteria space that would take over the cafeteria during the final um construction we're adding five um classrooms on each level so what that does is it adds 10 classrooms as part of the addition itself as part of this we are transitioning from a 45 to a 56 school so in order to have Equity with what the current sixth grades have we have up upgraded certain spaces such as science classrooms to make sure that we're providing for um the appropriate curriculum spaces that they currently have in the middle school we are re um configuring some of the spaces anyone who has been to Hopkins in the last few years knows that it's been sliced and diced um quite a bit in order to accommodate the growth in students um there's several interior classrooms so we're um reconfiguring some of those interior areas to provide a appropriate special ed spaces and other related spaces so that we can restore the small group um rooms that are appropriate for the number of students in the building we're adding an s space and then when you get to the right of the plan which is the existing gym we are turning the um existing cafeteria into um music spaces and we'll be replacing the existing servery which is actually quite small with the servery that's 2 and a half to three times the size um and that will serve as converting the gym into a new cafetorium so one of the things um uh I have uh boys in the school system and one of the things that Marathon School uh after was built uh one of the places I see all the time is their is their gymnasium my boys play basketball and I think everybody there's been lot there's lots of uh youth basketball played in that gym where parents come to watch and I'm envisioning this facility this gymnasium being the same where parents are going to come to watch and Marathon school didn't allow enough space for really bleachers so people could watch they set up a row of chairs and uh I think it's an opportunity to to make sure there's enough space on the sidelines for the hundreds of kids and parents that are part of that whole ecosystem within Hopkinson and I see the drawing here so yeah there's a there's a rendering of the that gymnasium it is slightly bigger than marathons because of this and Elmwood Charles Woods will be the same um so you can see there is bleachers on both sides it's actually even a little bit these lines are a little bit misleading there is more runoff on the left and right side side so if I go back here you'll see there's some there are bleachers sorry about that I was trying to zoom in there's bleachers on the top and bottom of it so both sides kind of a home and away and there'll be about 300 or 300 seats or so basically matches what's in the existing Hopkins now from a count all right uh I just had one more comment and then we're we're getting near uh our time allotment for this uh on our agenda if we're not over already but uh the outdoor spaces I know parks and rack and little league has used the baseball field soft baseball softball field I know parks and wreck has used that basketball court uh in in the past for parks and rec programming has there been discussion with other like little league or parks and W or these other groups that have used those outdoor facilities and I guess I'm just seeing the size of the school increase and the size of the outside space decrease just seems to not be in Balance I I would um look to the schools to answer the engagement with various groups um we have had to take over some of the cleared lands we are locked in by wetlands on multiple sides so it's challenging immediately close to the school to create additional flat Playland um without deforesting the area that approaches the wetlands um we're sort of landlocked by the existing drainage structures to the north and to the east or the west and then the wetlands on um the East and then the the neighbors to the South so there is a limited amount of available space there are trails that allow you to take students from um the Hopkins school through to the um field that you see on the um sort of uh upper um left of the page and it's also um envisioning that you'll have a sidewalk that takes you to the lower uh Corner baseball field there but with the modifications the new field is a u is it U10 or u12 soccer for size comparison so it's a it's a u so it's so it's it's a little bit larger but yeah but by 170 it likely becomes too small for to continue little leak use okay right yep and I I'll maybe Tim could probably jump in but just quickly um again during those programming meetings it was kind of interesting to understand what the actual use was by the school um and you know based on our notes it appears that you could have up to four classrooms almost a 100 kids out for PE so hence the reason a larger field space like this that could be broken down into multiple uh pieces could be you know really useful for them more so in this case in a ball field yeah I can probably help you with some of the physical education numbers um when right now we have 16 fifth grade and 14 fourth grade classrooms at Hopkins and and um they actually end up meeting two times a week so right now each one of the physical education teachers is able to accommodate 30 classrooms because they each teach six periods a day five days a week so they they are maxed out right now is what I'm getting at because we've got the 30 classrooms they meet twice and there are two PE teachers 30 a piece so when we built this gymnasium and you can see that there's also a like a multi use space in there um we had to do that because the moment you get to the 31st classroom in that building you need another physical education space so when we look at the exterior of the building and we think about Fields out there there will come a time when we need to absolutely have three classrooms out there if not four at a time and that's really just to accommodate kids and give them physical education as they receive it now so it doesn't add any additional physical education time on it's just all dictated by enrollment growth numbers oh so I do have one one last question that that as I see this project starting uh potentially in this this summer and going to August of 2026 and building a project to 802 students uh capacity the current numbers uh are above projections that were made several years ago so the I assume there's going to be new projections of where uh the grades are in terms of enrollment are going to be at the when the the day that the school opens and I'm curious what those numbers are the day the school opens are we going to be at 750 kids 720 what what is the projected number so we do have those projections but I think we would have to take a moment to look them up all right we we uh I'll I'll table that for now but um on our agenda oh if you have it right here I think it's 7:47 yeah so it's going from basically 696 in this year to 729 next year to 747 yeah currently I think the the number Tim person gave you was 68 8 so we're hovering right around 690 right now yep you're ahead you're already ahead of the numbers that were used for to develop the it just seems the the projected ask doesn't match the real need um but I maybe that's not for the planning board to way weigh in on um um why don't uh the next let me just continue the next thing on our agenda because that that seems it seems we're going to well surpass 800 students within uh not not long after this Ren this this Edition um so typically we do a S sidewalk what does the planning board think about a proposed s sidewalk for this uh s I know I've seen it many times but it might be worthwhile to kind of get a sense of where the School boundaries will go to and other things like that where the parking will go to I think it's a good idea so typically we try to schedule these on a Saturday Saturday morning um is there somebody from uh the applicant that could meet us to kind of answer some of those G general questions like uh this is kind of the footprint envelope of the school this is like where the parking would go so we just see it in like uh do does the planning board look to have it physically staked or is relative it doesn't need to be physically staked it if it is great if it's not it's that's okay too no just clarifying so that we don't um disappoint you or waste your time yep I think it would depend on what day it is but we can arrange for someone yeah like I said we typically try to do these on Saturday so uh I know I'm not uh available uh I I don't necessarily need uh every member doesn't necessarily need to be there and it's hard to get all members all to be available on one date and time um but how does this Saturday work for anyone I can make it I could do it but I'd like to wait for you rob it doesn't seem like we're in a rush we haven't had any peer review or anything it seems like yeah it could be postponed what about the more people May 4th it might be nice to have the S sidewalk after the town meeting if possible MH it's possible it would be easier for us to arrange to have the right people there if we had a little more leeway so the 11th um yeah basically any Saturday morning uh like any Saturday morning in May I think would work in general some people obviously won't be available every Saturday but uh we typically try to shoot for 8:30 or 9 in the morning if you want to pick the 11th we can pick the 11th and we can arrange to have someone there let's shoot for the uh 11th how about uh 9:00 a.m. and we won't need access to the inside of the building correct no this is site plan review yep chis I can make myself available for that date as well okay all right um You can uh set that datea I don't know if you require a motion to set that date but no we we don't we that's one of the things we don't uh we don't need to vote on every planning board's different uh but at this point I think we'd like to continue the public hearing for 90 let me get the 90 what's the address uh I think they said 90 and 104 yep continue the public hearing I'd like to entertain a motion to continue the public hearing for 90 and 104 uh Hayden row Street time did you say Rob 8:30 uh 9:00 a.m. 9:00 a.m. do we need a a meeting to which we're going to continue it a date or just indefinitely I think we would look to schedule it for the planned 513 meeting if possible if that will give you adequate time between now we can authorize the peer review within two days if that'll give you um adequate time to review it and have comments for the the 513 meeting I move that we uh continue the meeting till 5:13 is there a second second all right uh roll call vote Matthew how do you vote Yes uh Parker yes Jane yes Elise yes and did I miss anybody I don't have and rob is a yes and I think we also need to uh do we need to do anything else John I think that's it the decision for the storm water management permit is uh required by May 26 so we still have time so we don't need to continue that but that's about it okay John could I ask you just a a general question do we need to complete the planning board process to apply for building permit or just to begin construction you don't have to complete the plane board process to apply for a building permit they probably won't issue it okay that's helpful all right I think I I'd like to unless there's if there's no more questions on this I think I'd like to hand it over to Gary to continue the meeting our chair all right thanks Rob um and I think just uh one more item for us and that would be the meting minutes from April 1st 2024 um any uh comments edits suggestions besides excellent job Lori thank you I was just second an excellent job especially catching up on some of the uh earlier continued meetings and refreshing my memory so thank you all right so I'll entertain a motion to accept our meeting minutes from April 1st 2024 so move so move second assuming no further discussion Rob how do you vote Rob Benson yes Jane Jane Marin yes Alise Elise yes Matthew yes Parker yes and Gary is a yes uh secondly I'll entertain a motion to adjourn so moved second ass no further discussion Rob how do you vote Rob yes Jane Jane yes Elise yes Matthew yes Parker yes and Gary is a yes as well so uh thank you all have a great night and we'll see you soonk you good night thanks everyone