##VIDEO ID:0NxTUeqhJw8## e e so then I saw one one letter from said it was going to be like an upch should go from 30 to 15 hang on a sec we don't have have a quum yet do we we're all little money people I don't see anybody on zo not on Zoom yet it's been a while do we need to push those so we have few minutes Masters on Zoom there's Chris that's Chris Master sighing heavily so you're you're voting member tonight or the alter no Chris is there I am the AL that's four I knew Chris was going to be here that's enough huh we have we got enough okay yeah Chris can you hear us all right we're ready we got to open it Chris thank you good evening my name is Mike Shepard and I'm standing is the chair of the espc 2 this evening um the normal chair John is away in Chicago last minute and Tiffany is involved with some kind of other business so I'm going to do it and uh we'll uh we have minutes to approve from uh let's see September 15th I believe they are September 13th 13th I'm sorry September 13th or August August August 13th has everybody had a chance to look at them pretty sure 45 minute meeting I'll entertain a motion accept the minutes as written so move thank you sir second second thank you J um so since we're doing the zoom thing we have to do a roll call vote I'm going to start with You Chris how do you vote on the minutes from August 13th yes September 13th I'm sorry bud August you're right August it was August okay um yes Bill yes all right and I'll vote I can't vote I was absent okay I'll I'm say thank you um we have uh request for payment one one abstain to vot three four one abstain can we do it if it doesn't work I won't obain I wasn't at the meeting we all set we're good okay thank you um Elementary School building Comm committee uh we have invoice number OPM d116 d29 from vertex in the amount of $333 333,000 333.33 a lot of Threes there uh one from Perkins asan for $400,000 even um one from Fus phius for $33,700 uh one from local IQ for $697 and one 24- 351 from Lucas environmental in the amount of $2,340 even the total amount on this invoice is $469,500 [Music] 40 do I have a motion to approve the invoice so moved thank you sir second you thank you uh again we'll do a roll call vote Chris you're first yes yes yes William yes yes yes and I'll be a yes thank you I don't know how you want to handle this signature business John John will send me one electronically he'll yes great thank you with that um as everybody probably knows um the esbc is before both the planning board and the Conservation Commission last night we met with the planning board um they didn't close it they extended it uh tonight uh the team is meeting with the Conservation Commission right now uh or at least at 7 o'clock 7 o' um and uh I expect they'll be pretty close to closure um with that being said we have uh a presentation from Bob I suspect on the 60D 60% CD cost to the school and uh Bob you have the floor great we need can we get that need that on okay and Je you want me to say next or you can just see my screen where I am okay Bob hold up just a second I really filed up but I olizee we we're supposed to have a period for public comment at the meeting in beginning of the meeting hearing nobody sitting here and I suspect there's no one on TV I suspect we'll have no one is that the case Chris is the only one online right that's right we're online what I'm saying Chris is Chris Chris is on yeah all right moving on thank you Robert great okay uh so we just wanted to start with um uh a look at what has changed since since the design development set um we're now at 60% construction documents um and we've just completed a cost estimate um so um this is really pretty high level and this is something that we need to prepare for the msba submission so they can keep track of any differences uh make sure we're holding up to the Integrity of the educational plan and program um so starting with the site um you can see there's kind of just a macro site plan uh off to the left and a zoomed in version uh so we could point out a few things since design development we have actually added approximately 40 parking spaces and done a slight reconfiguration and adjustment to the field location this was to help avoid some Wetland setbacks um and the parking was an additional um something that came out of comments that we received from the various regulatory approvals and and meetings um we've also um included some end Islands so um on the parking spaces you can see there's a strip of green space that separates the different parking runs uh also at the ends of those uh there's a little bit of an island and that's something that's uh uh desired from a planning board point of view we've also been looking at this from a snow removal point of view and talking to Tim and Facilities about uh making sure we're keeping enough storage and the ability to easily um plow um we also talked about and it's not shown in this plan but the there'll be a slight revision to the crosswalks including adding some flashing signals um and we have learned that the light poles that we have on site need to reduce they were at 30 feet they're going to go down to 15 which is per guidelines um that's pretty much it at a at a high level um moving into the floor plan we've got um onto the floor plan we've got um just a few changes here um so one of the things we uh have done is uh we've been coordinating continually at this level in construction documents with mechanical with all of our Consultants with structural and these sometimes cause little little minor uh changes and what we're seeing is that there are small mechanical rooms that we've had to reconfigure slightly uh in some cases it just sort of bumps over some spaces we've maintained as I said all the program Integrity everything is the same size the same number of spaces um but you'll see um I think there are four five little mechanical room revisions down here on the first floor um I should say on the left hand side of the screen you're seeing the design development plan on the right side you're seeing the 60% CD plan you'd have to look very close to see any changes um one of the other things we're always looking as we develop the design further to uh save money be a little bit more efficient but then work towards some of the overarching goals of durability and maintainability so in this cost estimate which will be talking about later with the project in is on budget we did look at tazzo flooring for the first floor from the gymnasium all the way through the cafeteria we wanted to get a price on that so it's something that we can continue to talk about but it represents a better durability um long lasting it'll work better with the moisture and the in andout coming from multiple different directions and with all the community use uh so that's something that we have in the in the budget right now if I go up to the second floor um you'll see just a couple more um mechanical room changes um in this case we did have to take away one of I forget the number I think it's like 15 staff toilets um one of the Wings the southernmost Wing here happen to have two staff toilets at the beginning of the wing all the other Wings have a single staff toilet on each floor for each Wing um we were just trying to increase it but it turns out that we needed that space for mechanical so um we are still well above the the code requirements and the distances are very short uh to get to toilet rooms but um this also happened on the third floor next floor up um and here we had a few more changes as our plan developed again we're working with structural we're putting in bracing sometimes walls get fatter we found that the St rooms were getting just a little bit smaller than they should mhm uh so we did a a slight adjustment we kind of pivoted the storage so that we we could get those rooms restored back to their um proper program size and that's really it these are really just small little little uh adjustments does anybody have any questions on the plans or the site that I could answer do have a question um were there any changes to the geothermal bfield few meetings back we had discussed that that would be 10 fewer Wells that would be needed based on the information that was collected in the field the test Loops uh and you had you we I think the vote was keep the 10 well as is at that that's at some point I forget the number we had 120 then the guy said well the school will function with 100 and then we as a committee decide keep the 120 because we'll need that potentially for this future expansion it' be cheaper to drill now than it will 10 years from now that was I just wanted to confirm thank you yeah if we don't increase the size will they run more efficiently or would that not be a benefit having more I don't think that the wells have that that level the wells have an efficiency okay Associated because there's no moving Parts yeah okay yeah it draws some energy there are there are some subtle efficiencies number well I had a quick question about the gymnasium floor which I assume will be hardwood like every other gymnasium that's what we've been athletic wood floor no I visited the Ashland School that that our friends did just recently menz school I also visited a school in Medway five of my grandkids play all these Sports and all so I'm met all these schools but the thing about the Medway one which is brand new and the ashline one was brand new is they have a new method of racking the floors in other words if you go to to uh uh Marathon there's there's the floor is seamless if you go to Ashland every four feet there's a joint that's about eighth of an inch wide and then another four feet and another so I went online like you do for everything I don't know a thing about and I guess flooring guys now have this new racking method my question is I'm really bothered with that joint every four feet because it looks stupid it's it's it's tiny not even an eighth of an inch but it's repetitive like why do all the floors for the last 50 years they have to do that and Easton has that are we going to do it that way well not now I assume now in the liter in the literature I read the literature and it's it's a take up for expansion and contraction but given you know Marathon was built on the same Wetland that everything else is and and we don't have a problem that for buckling or shrinking I I just don't understand it it it looks like the flooring guys done something to cover their butt and you know for potential expansion and contraction because there something you can look at and just we can definitely look at it yeah you know if there some reason it's legitimate fine but if it's just because it's easy for flooring guys I'm not as fine have you been doing it the last three or four projects that way Apparently one of our recent projects uh you said e we had an argument about it recently yeah yeah same yeah same thing it's every fourt I think I felt the same way Mike did when I first saw it the last the schools we open in the last two years kind of FL to that and I don't know the origin why F to that it's got to be pretty reent they're doing it I I just if there's no really good reason i' I'd rather have the floor look like yeah Marathon or like high schools I you're not Ian I don't want to go a limb but you're you're giving more spaces for more things that to expand as opposed to pushing all the way to the edge because essent if there's no gaps you're telescoping all the way out this gives more subtle reliefs on an interim basis but I don't know if there's real detriment to not doing it because as you pointed out back in Marathon we weren't yeah if if you look it up it's the floring guys refer to it as Racket and what they do is they do the floors in 4ot sections and they they provide that extra little space for that reason and you know maybe there's a good reason for it but it's it looks you know doesn't look good guess we actually don't have don't have that at one of our recent schols that was that was my two cents Robert the the uh the other thing um I noticed because I I was there for the design review meeting where they discovered the fact that we had 30 foot light poles instead of 15 and of course now we're going to do 15 but I thought I saw something from Chris Everly that that said it was going to cost us more to do 15 foot poles now that would make sense if we had more light poles that's correct that you'll have to change the spacing and so you'll end up with more quantity but then he said no the same number of poles you're just going to change the fixture but it was a it was a big number I just hope somebody would look at that we did we thought we thought originally because the timing of the estimate and then the turnaround so we initially said well if they're 30 ft and we're going to go to 15 ft then we need more we need to change the spacing we need more that would be I'd assume the same and we told as in the same time so we decided to price that and ask the electrical Eng ER cuz you we only have days not more than that electrical engineer did the calculations okay changing the head on those fixtures is enough yeah with the spacing we had okay so then we went back to the estimator and said no we don't need more okay so so it isn't going to be that big same location with a shorter pole but with a different spread different throw and that's still dark sky compliant everything we need so you get the same illumination with 15 foot Pooles instead of yes so was the net not a crazy number actually think it's a the head's more expensive the PO is less it's it's a wash yeah great thank thank you uh that's it for me okay I'll move on to some of the other design one thing I I mentioned to Chris it hasn't made it way of the design team yet but we'll probably I think we talked a little bit we'll probably end up with a gate here now that we have that parking lot we want to make sure there's no people kind of short cutting the line um so we'll probably have a gate that I would recommend adding over here so when parents come and pick up and drop off you want them to come in the way they normally do and loop around you don't want a a second valve if you will for a shortcut around so right now we have two gates in the back but we'll probably add our third gate there that can be controlled when needed sorry Bob yep no problem um so the next slide just captures a summary of um before the summer hit which seems like a long time ago now we um had uh user group meeting uh we also met with with Tim and on facilities and maintenance um and really we just had very minor what we expected as very minor adjustments and changes some of them will probably still be ongoing discussions um classroom podiums versus desks will be ongoing we heard from special education that we just needed to increase a little bit more of the glass and we did that uh music switched over to carpeting um we actually did a study of the cafeteria um to keep the stage clear in case performances were set up and can fit the seats it's a little snug um but it could work uh We've also learned since then that there is a desire to use uh the platform to help disperse the uh the students a little bit better and create variety um of of lunch space uh and something that happens right now and then just minor changes to uh uh make sure we accommodate three dumpsters and we're looking at something we'll talk about later um I guess a pump head house with potentially uh some additional space there on on the site um next slide is the program no changes um everything's pretty much the same the msba would like to see that minor revisions to Furnishings layouts uh next slide shows just something that we brought to the committee in the you know as we started construction documents and we did look at um going all brick not using the big block trying to keep the building scaled The Brick we're using is a very large it's called a Norman brick but proportionately it's it's long and narrow so it doesn't look thick and clunky um and that kept us on budget as well we did have the opportunity to save a little bit more but um for the sake of scale next slide shows an example of what that brick looks like um just a little bit more tactile and and accommodating for the students at the ground level um we have also been developing the exterior nothing substantive has changed um we went from sketchy diagrams that we had in DD to more uh photorealistic images um which is what you see down here at the bottom that's a long front elevation um you can see the gymnasium on the left the cafeteria on the right the media center right in the middle and the next slide just shows a a closer view um continuing to develop we're making refinements to the canopy um yeah Bob is any of that long brick on the front of the building or is it only in the back Wings it's the entire building building oh we have different colors okay I couldn't really tell what the the the front so that top part is the long the whole thing is long bricks top is red bottom is grayish yeah the very top large uh classroom wings are the off-white color and then uh in the front of the school yes the red and and then the the gray or beige color is also brick thank you you don't have a you don't have a picture of the off white color brick right just the rendering yeah just in the rendering um and so I'm just scrolling through some other views just to uh get a feel for what it's uh shaping up to look like uh and then the last slide I have is um some information that came out of future proofing so one of the things we wanted to be ahead of and look out for the community for is if you were to add on we've reserved the space to add on and to do it very efficiently on the ends of each Wing So that would be um two classrooms on all three floors so six classrooms on each Wing that's 18 total represents a whopping 25% increase over an already larger enrollment so I think a lot of capacity yeah um we talked to all of our engineers and consultants and made sure that uh duct piping sizes and everything could accommodate we looked at uh code and egress requirements to make sure door widths the the stair widths um the number of toilet fixtures Plumbing fixtures everything could accommodate a couple of things that we learned is that um you would need to upssize the do as unit the the main mechanical unit uh to have higher capacity to handle these future classrooms the benefit and we'll talk about this later when we get into cost would be obviously that it it would also run more efficient at less than capacity have a longer life um so that's something that that again we'll be talking about later um I don't know if it's on this slide but we did learn that we would need to add lavatory sinks um so we don't need to add Plumbing fixes like uh toilet or urinal or anything like that or new bathrooms but there's an increase of laboratory sinks required could be part of the addition but that would be one of the few things that uh that that might need to increase um the SS would be in the addition though yeah that's that's the plan it's like two sand two hand washing sinks per gotta per four per one and I think we reported early on that when you add on you know things like even the numbering system for the rooms the letters uh identifying the exterior stair for fire safety that all Remains the Same I thought that we were eclipsing the the outdoor bathroom that we have the bathroom on the end of the middle wing it turns out we're not so everything's good I have one just quick question you back up three slides it was more on the look The Design um this one nope go back to the one after you show the elongated brick yeah so that one at the bottom how come where the cafeteria is the majority of the cafeteria where the window is is all red a little bit of gray then to the right it's gray where the rest of the building is top bottom top bottom it just doesn't is there a reason why it's I with you we are have are catching up with ourselves on our team about that um at one point I think it may have been a different volume maybe maybe was in a different position okay um but I think that's a good eye because uh that's something that we're talking about as team internally probably change um we do have the the base on the building is very low intentionally um upon entry but it does rise a little bit taller in the classroom Wings in the courtyards and in the gymnasium which is purposeful right um but that one anomaly which is the kitchen yeah uh I think well gets larger it stays in scale with a larger front I can see that excellent thank you well how much we at Marathon uh after the New York Disaster the school shooting um we we changed a lot of the glazing particularly in the cafeteria um um the the uh we from PL old regular glass to now bulletproof glass yeah how much are the attack resistant not bulletproof just going there's a different rating there significantly different rating but if we if we accounted for all that in this school we had security workshops and um have uh recorded uh Scopes like that that are included in the cost estimate yeah so it's in there or not in there it's in there we're hardening the ground floor the same that attack resistance not bulletproof but attack resistance okay great I just I I didn't want to forget it and get caught at the end thank you yeah there are a number of things too just as a reminder where the layers each wing of the school each floor has a lockoff yeah so there's kind of like layers of lock off within the school has added protections excuse me what's the what's the difference between bullet proof and attack resistant a great question so uh you know attack resistant is a a certain duration of time that someone would have to physically keep U smashing a window with a a blunt object like a baseball bat and uh it delays the ENT entry of the the um the uh the person what it serves as is kind of like your windshield so when you break the glass it actually stays together it doesn't it doesn't drop to the ground like as if you broke a plate glass window so even though you're you're smashing it and you're eventually getting a baseball size hole through it it's still staying as a is a solid uh element as opposed to shattering so somebody actually can walk through it but it's not bullet resistant so small high high powerered projectiles will pass through that those types of uh applications in schools are just at the administration office where the essentially the receptionist is where there's that first kind of vestibule area those are the areas where in schools we School designs where that type of window is added in it's very thick uh 4 Ines thick depending on how what ballistics level you're at yeah but at least 4 in um thick I think at that location got it okay thanks and there's a lot more literature out there if you want stuff offline we could certainly Supply to you as well back at the time of marathon that was kind of newer technology and there was a lot more competing and there wasn't a lot of track record on those so um now it's kind of unfortunately more the norm uh and so there's a lot more subtle thin versions of that so I think that future proofing was the last slide I had I don't know if there are any more questions on any questions on design DD to 60% CDs Now what happens with the 60% that gets submitted to the msba and correct you you want us tonight to vote as to whether or not we're going to submit it to the msba is that correct that's correct right talk you through the numbers before we request that um vot so if there's no other questions on design which we can always Circle back to um we're going to talk a little bit about cost here um and so where we are we're at the 60% construction document estimate um we've done a parallel estimate um with our firm with am Fogerty and the designers have carried PM andc they' both priced the same set of documents um they came in with uh with a Delta of about 400,000 between um spread between the two um we're below our original budget uh and we also have two alternates price that we're going to talk about tonight uh alternate number one is upsizing that rooftop unit that Bob was alluding to in the future proofing so by upsizing that unit now it can run at a more optimal capacity and provide future expansion uh for an upcharge of uh about $275,000 which we'll get to in a minute um versus having to buy an entirely new unit by the time you go through uh and actually do that addition at the end of the school building building wing and that would be a higher amount the second item has to do with the mockup and I'm going to talk about that individually in the slide coming up so and you can fact check me here you know a little better than I do but um right now we've we've estimated this rooftop unit upgrades and so essentially what this does is it allows for that that expansion of those classrooms and increases the capacity from 24,000 CFM to 32,000 CFM of the unit it fits within the building's current design configuration at this larger unit allows it to operate at a lower speed potentially increasing the life longevity of the units uh and to do it as a standalone unit would cost uh significantly more and we're estimating that at about $360,000 at today's dollars plus the escalation of whatever time you would uh Implement that modification and so the the suggestion tonight is that if you upssize the mechanical equipment today for the 275,000 you'll forego the future upgrade at 360 plus the compounded escalation at that time so we think it's it's prudent uh where we're tracking overall is under budget uh and so we have the ability to to make that decision now if the committee chooses to is there a way to assign potentially an offsetting number on the bullet point that talks about uh increasing life expectancy does anybody put math to that to say you know you will save this amount of money if you upside as well as avoiding paying today's dollars with an escalation I'm not sure if I don't I can ask the question to the engineer to get an answer for you I don't have the answer about how long theoretically it would last longer than if you know is it 20 to 22 years or 20 to 24 years I I don't know the answer it would be whatever it is it would be a plus that's all not it's going to be running yeah it will be running at a lower rate or you know it's not going to be working as hard yeah to Supply the air to the to the building as it's designed now so yes it'll it'll definitely have some more longevity cuz all the parts will be working less hard the technology being what it is though assuming we had to put in disa in 10 years I get the I get the guy that's doing all the energy stuff goinging says too bad you did this thing 10 years ago we got this new one now for that'll do the job and do it better so effectively we pay for it twice that way I I I you know a lot a lot of things you buy and for for to save money for the potential addition by the time you get to the potential addition the thing is either died already or dying or the engineer will say geez we got the new greater thing and you're going to pay twice for it I is there is there any danger of that is that it's it's always a possibility Mike I mean you know the technology is one of those things that does more rapidly evolve right and certainly it it's escalated from the 1950s it was a much slower progression and change was like more tried andrue and in today's today's day as you're mentioning the technology edge of it does move more rapidly um in your case it also depends on which Edition goes first and how many you know I think you know the first edition this is smart money you know by the time you get to the second or third depending on when those occur yes you probably will be investing in in different Technologies but if you compound the first edition with the longevity extension of your equipment it it probably makes sense in today's dollars so Tim you deal with this scrap every day and I know we've replaced the boilers at the middle school that are only 10 years old uh what what do you think about this we talked about this uh pretty extensively in our internal meetings and I think you know I had the same concerns um honestly I think if we in the next however many years five years had to put an addition on the building upsizing it now is the way to go yeah if we didn't do it we talked about what the alternatives to that would be you know potentially putting a separate unit on the roof to cover that section that section which you know becomes more problematic I think upsizing it now saves a lot of money as Jeff just alluded to definitely in that first edition you know so if it's within that 10 years if we're out 20 years then it's a different conversation right now we're looking at replacing a unit or potentially getting to the point where we're going to replace a unit anyway so I think that was kind of the internal you know it took them a lot to convince me in the appropriate ways that this was the smart way to go it's cheaper money to do it now than it will be to do it then you know by however much it you know figures out to either having to make sure structurally that we can handle a unit on that section of roof and going through that whole Engineering Process and um just upsizing it now and you know running it at a more efficient level I have question for you Susan you know with all the numbers that you and Carol have shared with the town and us about the demographics coming up is there any point in time you can think of where what we're talking about would be almost yes it's going to be here by then or or not because well what's your best thought on when we would need an an additional space like this right so you know as you know we do our enrollment projections and every couple of years we do update them but the the history has shown that we are still beating our projections so even though years ago our projections were way off I mean hundreds and hundreds we're still going Beyond history will show that we're you know we're still going a hundred beyond our projection year after year so when we have another enrollment projection where will that put us you know it just continues to go um and the building is has not stopped I know a lot of people think that you know hopkington is built out but it it does still continue and when people move out for various reasons they're moving in with kids um so we are beating our projections and the danger of course is you know when you build something like Marathon and you put an addition on during construction and then put an addition on right after construction so we're just very leery of that kind of History here do do I understand it correctly that we're anticipating I think it's a similar question but that we're anticipating within five years that the school as it's laid out won't be able to accommodate the students no I wouldn't say that I mean right now there's I don't remember the do you remember the current enrollment of the three grades today together I don't I mean there the the school is size for about 1,200 students in the future configuration regardless of the additions and so we're not there yet today so you know unlike marathon where we when they set out with that they knew when we started the project it wasn't going to open and be able to handle the kids and we had the msba move the the metrics twice along the way they built that capacity in this time around so it's a much larger Baseline um but to Susan's point I mean you drive around town you still see development going on so it's I don't know how that bakes into the overall and and there's obviously other developments on the other side of town and um you know that that could impact it so it is hard to put a number on it right goe oh sorry and so this this um added expense even though it's still within the budget um this is essentially just a hedge right that we're gonna need to expand and need to get a bigger better stronger unit and it's a savings of about 90,000 plus escalation but yes yeah it's a hedge Chris that's a fair assumption yep yeah and to Mike's Point if the projections those who did the pro projections and we um did a good job we don't need to expand for another 10 12 years or maybe 15 years that the technology would probably advance to the point that it would make sense to get a new unit as opposed to um trying to put the stress on the bigger unit that we're looking for approval today and looking to a crystal ball certainly the technology could change in the time frame of whenever that addition is not knowing when that addition is there are schools that are going air sourced heat pumps as opposed to tying into your geothermal system you know how those all those are just coming online you know last year and essentially so the longevity of those systems I think doesn't have the track record in the Northeast that it has in other parts of the country so it's hard to know Chris whether that future dedicated units associated with that six classroom Edition will be as optimal as upsizing your existing unit and so it is an educated guess um you know not knowing what's around the corner or the track record of those newer technologies that are just starting to be installed in some of your neighboring towns right the other thing about this is this is just an outside air unit right and the technology of an outside air unit hasn't dramatically dramatically changed in the past you know 30 or 40 years so I mean there are obviously components that but usually what they do is like there's the guts inside the box so there are ways to upgrade these things over time anyway right I think the bigger jump you guys have already committed to which is the geothermal like that's what we're seeing you know if you were to say buy me a gas unit that would that could handle this I would say to answer your question the other way which is people are getting away from that right you're starting to see towns move away from the natural gas but you've already made that investment um with the geothermal so this is capitalizing and balancing that uh that investment I guess another way getting around of the same question Susan is it's hard to remember all the numbers we we worked with in designing the size of the school but do you re recall any point in the projections where we would have more than 1,200 students in this 234 I I don't recall where we got to the maximum so if you can confirm or deny that right so you have to keep in mind that we're using two different projections so the msba uses a 10-year average so they put together all their number and they come up with a 10year average and that's where we come up with what we're allowed to build According to mspa which is the 1195 then we have the Arthur Wagman projections which gives us year over-ear and I don't recall I'd have to dig back into his numbers that with his numbers we get Beyond I think they line up fairly well which was one of the things that gave both Dr Cav and I and I comfort in that one projection was not way off from the other okay so I I mean essentially we're trying to to understand where where are we 10 years from now because if it's 10 years from now we're probably better off waiting for newer technology but if we're three or four years away which I we'd have to have a significant increase in enrollment above and beyond the increases we've already projected is that an accurate statement I I'll take a stab at that bill if you want um today we have 985 students in grades two three and four and so if the projection is that we're getting to 1197 you would have to have 212 students join the hocon public schools in only those three grades that's not going to happen in the next couple of years it's going to happen eventually but not in the next couple of years I when we always talk about years out it's always years after the completion of the bill too so you know you're talking years after 2027 right so you're that's when the clock kind of starts the the the uh the cost for the school is a 120 million is that right or somewhere 124 yep so this is 0 2% my math is right this yep 200 whatever 50,000 or 60,000 yep okay all right so it's kind of it's kind of a rounding error not wrong to kind of wrap up this discussion we're talking about an alternate we're talking about an alternate but it will but the reason we're asking for you now is because we are at the 60% design level right so they're going to wrap up the design the beginning of next year so we do want the design team so unlike the alternates that go out to bid for construction this is a one of I think we would prefer it not to be but it could be you just have you'd have to spec two different size units and you may have a different footprint of the the dunnage or the the duck penetrations through the slab so there could be all I'm thinking is the numbers are all out there we have no idea what number is got to come back so if the number comes back low meaning we have extra money in the budget it's easier to vote for things like this okay that's all I'm saying um whereas if we put it in now would we still be at the budget given what we have if we put it now we' we'd still you just to cut ahead two slides so um the overall picture of the project is that um this chart here is the gross SC area of the building hasn't changed the construction cost at the time we signed the agreement with the msba was a budget of just under 125 million so 24 and 954 and change at the design development stage we were at 123.5 million which was uh before the summer yeah and now we're at 123. 7 so over the course of the the last estimate in in May until now we've only uptick 200,000 including all the significant changes you guys have seen in drainage and all these other things that are out there so right now we're currently tracking $1.2 million under the budget before we entertain these suggestions okay and in the math again which I'm certainly not a math uh major but it's actually 002 so it's 210 of 1% not 2% yes yeah yeah if the money's in the budget then I I kind of lean towards Tim's um yeah you know I just didn't want to you know go back to town meeting and say you know we're short a million half dollar because we got to put Tim's thing up there but uh well I'll give you a recent example Mike when we put the addition onto the high school we were able to tie into those systems and you know so we tied into those boilers that we have there that are 24 years old now um now eventually we're going to have to replace those as they come to end of life but it fit within our budget to put that addition on with what we had existing in the building without to upsize or upscale anything ju just an example of a recent project that we've done how how do we settle this we just we were bringing up the old projections was wanted to clarify the question so you know you know obviously to get the average at 1195 means it has to be over the 1,200 students at some point and so the projections with the msba had it uh exceeding the 1,200 students in 2029 which was at 1223 and then got up to over, 1300 um by 2032 right so you know in order to have that average yeah so you're within yeah you're well within a 10e window and you know to refresh you here and anybody following at home the the theory around the enrollment projections is you know with the number of classrooms you have you can just add one student to all them right before you start to feel the pain and two students and then when you get to three students that's when you're like okay we need to trigger the additions because it's that number of classrooms times that number of students is is your goal Point yeah so do we need a vote on Alternate one the rtu or a head knot or a consensus yeah e either way yeah if you want to take a vote or if you want to just anybody comfortable voting on this tonight do have coule of questions U First is is a larger rtu is it is that a given for the expansion or are there could there be other Alternatives that would avoid like I don't know if it's even related to the to the geothermal this is the to to be clear right this is the doas unit right that we're right so this is the fresh air you've already have capacity in the geothermal so you know you already have the heat and cooling yep already baked into the project and this is the other end of that the fresh air that you've got to do to offset uh the occupants in the space so there really isn't there's no other real way around it okay so that answers the first question the second question is given that and we are trying to accommodate this within the budget we have some room does this make it to the top of our list of items that we would like to include or are there other items to consider um there there are not there aren't items that we're bringing to you today that we're saying this is a a nice to have that you should consider adding or things you know we've been tasked with the question of what if we have to build again right and so this is a response to that what's the smart way to spend tax dollars so that's that's why that's the origin of this conversation and so we we've gone round and around about it because it it affects many things right we we've now added the parking so we've solved how do we solve the parking to make sure they're there we've solved it by keeping the extra capacity in the geothermal so this is the next layer on that just to make sure that if you have to pull that lever it's very minimal impact you know compared to the a Maximum Impact had you not considered these things um simpler you know adjustments to the pipe width and sizes right and anything buried you know we're really trying to make sure we don't dig up your site to whoever the future committee is and future Consultants that have that task under you can do it with the least impact to the existing operations of the school there is always nice to have though you know if you want to throw them on the list that's up to you guys you know we're we're just responding to the questions that we posed to us so could we have a motion to approve alternate number one um for the capacity increase in future proofing so move thank you sir second gr thank you Chris yes we're voting yes thank you yes thank you yes yes and I'll vote Yes okay thank you so the other one the second one is an interest interesting alternate and so normally on a project we build a mockup right we we always do right we build it for a couple of reasons we we build it for um constructability to make sure that the team assembled all the contractors know how to implement the designer detail so that's a given on the mockup itself a lot of commissioning agents want to do performance testing on the mockups they always start there because they want to say I want to test this installation to make sure they put the window and right and they sealed all the gaps the particular consultant that we have assigned to the msba wants to build a mockup that is essentially its own little shed and and so he he terms it as a six-sided mockup because it has four walls a floor in a ceiling and so he wants to test the air air the air entrainment of that unit I want to take a step back and refresh the committee that you're pursuing passive house in order to get to the msba 3+1 percentage points we've committed to going passive house which means we are going to do a full blower door test which means you you literally pressurize the building and see if any leaks come out right and so this is a way to do a similar mockup on a small scale and a 10 by10 versus the entirety of the building to make sure you work out any of those details and so this particular uh commissioning agent Thrive has been doing this for about eight years most of the other msba commissioning agents don't request this uh he feels there's value in it there certainly is we've had them on multiple projects we've argued not to do it on some projects we've accepted it on others um it's not a cheap mockup because a traditional mockup would be kind of a two-sided l- shape you know now you're you're mirroring that L and you're throwing a roof on top of it so if we're going to go the the distance of making it a performance mockup and we're kind of committing to that because of the other testing we're going to do down the road there's value in that we also know that hopkington has water bands over time right and so to make sure you have the grass take on your new athletic fields to make sure you deal with dust control uh we've been talking to the design team about having a temporary water well put into the site in order to mitigate any water bands in town we know there's water on the site we know we can pump water out via a pump and then can irrigate the uh the soccer fields when that takes hold and can use it as temporary U dust control during construction so the design team proposed that we take that six-sided little shed and make it a permanent structure and actually make it the well head and leave that as a permanent uh well for the the school to use should they need to irrigate that field long term or irrigate uh fill up and irrigate other spaces around the other schools in town other schools in town have access to that water well so it's a bit of a combination of the means and methods to get the building built to guarantee or not guarantee but to give greater likelihood that the grass is usable early on versus fighting with it for several years which is the way many athletic fields can go and trying to do something that's in keeping with sustainability and so you know personal thought that I had that I want to throw on the table is sustainability right we build these mockups in other towns and then we crush them and we throw them out what if we put a plaque onto the wall and talked about that we we didn't spend this money only to throw it out we reinvested in it we found a use for it and here's this little building it may look a little funny because it looks just like the big building mini but it served a purpose and it was you know keeping that money in the project versus a throwaway cost so kind of there's a lot packed into that and that's why I kind of wanted to kind of talk about the different layers that are there but at a minimum we would keep the l-shape mockup right so that's kind of baked in there and what we're talking about here is for you know 100,000 plus or minus and it could be a little plus by the time we detail it and draw it and all that but for another 100,000 or so we could make it this permanent um little shed that becomes the well head for the the the temporary to permanent well so wanted to kind of put that all out there because we did put the temporary well in the estimate so that part's already in there well that's the the water the temporary well but there's there's permanent implications that we have to go through a concom and we have to bring that up tonight so we're kind of going to have to play catchup with pering that we want to now add this in here um to put in there so there's a couple of moving targets why this is more time sensitive tonight um what would the square footage of this mockup be 100 square feet 10 by 10 yeah 10 by x 10 so probably even less probably the inside if we did 10 x 10 on the outside it be you know 80 square feet kind of on the inside so enough room for the the the pump itself you know the electrical equipment associated with and whatever tools are needed to maintain it essentially okay because you you got my attention on storage thinking you can always use storage but it really wouldn't be other than tools for that particular well yeah I mean you can use I mean Tim will find a way to pack stuff in there they you know these guys always um I've been in these little well buildings and they're not there's not a lot of stuff in there right we flirted with the idea of making it bigger but then that you know it's not a cheap building in itself when you look at the cost of that little square footage and obviously we we want to be mindful of your money I mean we could certainly build this bigger and it could have more storage but it'll be a very expensive shed where would it go that's online yeah there go so we're proposing to located in this corner here so at the kind of proximate to the parking lot in the athletic field that's correct correct so outside of the play structure uh it would be a kind of a in view of the boulevard as people kind of come into the campus so it will be a talking point which is why I came up with the idea of the sign and to make sure we we educate the public that we're we're not throwing away money and it's a way to reinvest uh after doing the performance testing that we wanted but essentially it would be kind of front and center as you as you enter the site um at that particular location we could shift it around a little bit but we do have Wetland setbacks on the other side of the site um and we are kind of uh Heming that in with parking and driveway access but we could shift the location if that prominence was not desirable Jeff my my understanding is a mockup is made up of the material Windows Doors uh pretty much everything in the school in one place so you can see how it goes together interacts with the school is giant to take that and reduce it to 10 by 10 it's going to be the world's God awful ugly building that youve ever seen yeah it's going to look awkward it it is say it like it is it's going to look awkward um so I would I was I would say hire some Mike Shepard for 10 grand build a building like the other well have and it looks good and it's got clapboards and a door that's all it needs um I you know I like the idea of the the the mockup but I can see why we need it but it would be a butt ugly building and and uh to put it in front of the school is just crazy just my two sets I mean one thing you got going for you this our building is all brick yeah so there multiple materials then it would really be cas remember Marathon they spent a lot of time building this thing and then at the very last thing when they were done they tore it down thre it in the dumpster uh Windows everything just you know but to to to you know something to shrink this you know it's it's probably worth $100,000 cuz you're going to have that in Windows and Doors and siding and insulation and foam and mastic you know this has got everything that the whole school has in a 10x10 thing but ugly but but to Mike's Point nothing can be salvaged from that if we decide not to no they don't you pay for it it's not worth it yeah they'll say might we've we've had that conversations many times on many projects and yeah it never ends up being Financial you mentioned in your explanation you TP you've argued for and against sounds like you're arguing arguing for because you have these other ideas but based on the fact it probably will not be the most appealing looking building does that kind of take away some of those other advantages and we're back to I me it's and I don't have a horse in the race I mean whatever you guys you know it's a conversation right so this this particular commissioning agent feels very strongly about it some of those other projects we weren't going um passive house and we weren't doing the flow blower test so you know five six years ago it made a lot less sense to do it than it does today on the last job we veed it out because of we were bidding in covid and he wrote long dissertations to the msba about why this was the wrong decision but the town didn't care because we had to get a project we could afford yeah so how it went um we can do performance testing on the existing building right that that that is totally an option you know this is not a an absolute uh have to have um the designers would like to have a mockup to verify that the contractors know how to implement it so again I would advocate for the l-shape mockup you know at least right that is the throwaway cost right that yeah that that happens on every job and has for you know all of time if you've ever been to Boston you see them much much larger too they can be kind of honking large um but um I think a mockup is necessary we have that budgeted in here the the well came up uh you know partly with the work we're doing over at uh Hopkins too where we we need to keep the dust down right you got Marathon next door you have a Butters you know but you also have a water band in town so Tim had a water well on the property there so we're working to um resurrect that and use that for the temporary purposes on that particular project and so that's kind of how this conversation is morphed and we're trying to find Value in a way to do all this but it may be to Mike's Point and over it may not be the end the intended consequence you want in the end but you know if we do choose not to do it then there is a battle ahead that with the commissioning agent that will have to fight on your behalf in the msba about why you don't want to do it but the passive house thing was one of the things kind of pushing me in this project as as I recall again going back to Martha we wanted a well but the msba wouldn't let us do it it was something to do with energy was the lead lead at that time was not because of the lead but now Wells are back on again now Wells are allowed if you're irrigating for an athletic field essentially to preserve an asset but not to water the shrubs around the school so so I would propose we drill a well we run power to it somehow temporary or otherwise the pump is going to be at the bottom of the well there's nothing in the building or on top of the pipe it's just a pipe and it goes out to feed the whatever the sink the water fountain the athletic field so the well part is given what was spending for these other Wells is they're cheap Y and we could put a a 5 horsepower pump 500 ft down it'll pump water like crazy it doesn't need a building at this point if Mike Shepard's still alive we'll build it later and and uh you know it's just you know I l-shape great to put all that stuff in a 10t cube Jeff it's just got to be awful looking if we can hide it somewhere it's not worthwhile 10 ft you can't get a whel B in there once the well head's in there you know so I don't know how everybody else so the L shape obviously is a lot less expensive but we can't do the the um pressure you wouldn't be able to do the pressure you could do like an individualized window test U but not the pressurization not all the the the connection details not familiar with what the role is of this commissioning agent how difficult can he or she make the rest of this process if they're going to put their foot down I I'm not sure is it our decision ultimately it's ultimately your decision and then you know you sent us to then fight the fight and so it's fine at the end of the day we'll fight it like I wrote long letters and he wrote long letters back but then it was over and he delivered the rest of it and the project was not a problem we ended up he then tried again during when we went to bid to have us build the other two sides out of drywall and studs so he could still do his pressure testing and had that written into the spec but by the time we got to the field it was you're looking at you're like there's no point so we did certain testing on the mockup like U the air Vapor Barrier and some pull tests and things like that um but we did most of the performance testing on the actual building itself and not the mockup on that particular one so what is our recourse if we build a building and it doesn't pressure test because we didn't do this to kind of make sure definitely would it's hard to undo it when it's not right but it's also hard to undo it but even if you did the mockup it's still RIS doesn't mean it's going to be right so you know so on the last two projects we we didn't know right we had never done a pressure testing of the whole building it had been done an isolation and I was very nervous that we weren't going to pass but we ended up passing with flying colors you know we work with the contractor early on to set the tone now those jobs had a were construction manager so you had a little higher level of quality control in the implementation a little more eyes on the site monitoring stuff we are going with the general contractor here so there's less physical supervision with those type of people so you know it's a little different but it can all still be done and you know that just means that we have to make sure we do better due diligence um with the implementation of that but there's no guarantees but the ugly truth of it is if you don't pass the pressure test it's very difficult to figure out the point of failure right because think about it everything's covered yeah all the walls are covered all the windows are covered you can only test at the end when everything's done so now you would have to literally rip out finishes and so nobody ever wants to be there and you know at the end of the day you know it may jeopardize the passive house and that kind of stuff on a job that isn't going that way it's kind of just that's not a good thing but the stakes aren't as high I guess is another way to say it yeah on the other hand we could have a 10x1 cube that passes everything perfectly and the building building doesn't and that's important yeah it's it's yeah it's way to work out the details that are there with the people that are performing it to have a better less chance of risk corre right so if we decide not what role can we or you folks play in working with the contractors to make sure they do the job that needs to be done to the best of the ability you know so there's always there's always an option to have more oversight you know whether you bring in another you know uh engineer that has the ability to do more spot checking whether we do an additional service with the MSP agent MSB agent to do more spot checking there are ways you know to have more people looking out for your benefits uh than just relying on the contractor and their one superintendent out on site what would that cost it would uh you know certainly Le less than 100 Grand but it would depend on the frequency of how often you would want um them out on site um and obviously if things are going swimmingly in the beginning you can dial that back if things are not going swimmingly in the beginning you you dial it up yeah I guess my feeling is and the question that someone else got to before me was you know spending that 100 Grand again that's kind of nothing in the grand scheme of the project but if that six-sided 10 x10 doesn't mean that we are um guaranteed to have the the full test um done the right way then it's it's a gamble either way and I guess part of me feels it'd be better to gamble on having a little more onsite oversight especially if it's at a cost savings even if it's you know um the 100,000 to build a building even if we just destroyed it afterwards I agree with Mike it' be an eyesore but um I mean I wouldn't care if it would guarantee passing the second test um or the big the big pressure test let i' say go ahead and do it but if there's still risk to it um I think the money might be better spent having more onsite supervision can we not just go to the guy we hired to make sure this passes and say give us everything we need to make sure this passes and just follow his suggestion because then most likely he would suggest a six he's also a small company it's him it's basically him and so you know I think he kind of does some of these things in his repertoire because it means he doesn't have to spend as much time you know monitoring because there's more checks and balance is you know when he's not on site and so there's a lot of nice things about the performance testing but I'm not sold on it either I've fought this fight before um and we've got away from it on other projects too so it's it's if that's the direction the committee wants to go we're fine bringing that back up and then I'll ask that question what's it going to take for you to feel comfortable do you need more site visits and what's the quantity and and if not we can bring in other other Consultants right we have plenty of people in the industry we work kind of where I get to because in the in the residential industry the hers guy has become the guy that makes sure everything passes in the end he's the one that suggests you do this this and this and in most cases my experience 99 out have 100 passes because you did all the things you wanted to do um so I would hope this guy would give us the same kind of um input so we you know we don't want to skip something that's got to compromise the whole thing it might be Nickel Dime at the beginning and you know what I'm saying yep understood I assume that's why he hired them is this particular action here item here something that could be visited again yes two months three months from now it's it's it's just a line in the spec so that when we go to bid okay that that all the subcontractors include the materials necessary to do it I wouldn't want to bid it as an alternate because it would make the award very tricky because every every single person on the job would have one do some dollar line item with it which would complicate any type of alternates you accept that would be the suggestion of let's keep the powder dry and either use it on consultants if we have to um or maybe as a group in three or four months we decide you know what let's do it okay I'm not sure what would change any of our minds because we'll we'll also go back I mean we we'll have his counterarguments that we can bring back to you guys for he will have counter ARG he will have a letter that I will put in your packet and I wouldn't want to have staff spend very much time drawing up this thing well we'll get them started on the L shape and we think we hear you guys loud and clear so we'll we'll proceed with L shape we'll get the letter drafted over to the consultant about why we don't think it's a The Prudent use of funds and we'll go from there any other questions related to that all right so U we already covered this slide but we're we're trending uh 1% under budget so we're we're 1.2 million under the approved construction budget um which is good news uh and we are seeing good competition and bidding with recent projects as you uh achieve recently on uh on Hopkins we were $2 million under budget I don't know if the committee is aware of that but um we did get very favorable bidding results um so that is a uh real relevant and current data um that is important to keep in mind um back to your agenda so I will need we have permanent updates to give you and then uh some miscellaneous project updates uh but at some point in I don't want to lose track of the fact that I will need you guys to approve uh to authorize the owner's project manager to submit the 60% um submission to the msba so I don't if you want to do that now will the 60% include alternate number one that we talked about earlier uh yes we will include that so we can either vote on alternate number one separately or we can assume it's included in the total vote which you guys alterate number one was we didn't do we did vote on we already vote on one oh I'm sorry yeah you did vote on sorry we didn't vote on two but we don't have you don't have to vote on two skip two pretty nice okay so I'll p a motion to approve the 60% CD submission to the msba I know it's so mov second thank you uh how do we vote Chris yes yes yes my yes all right um just going to stop sharing screen so you don't see all the chicken scratch emails but I want to give you a couple other updates so meepa um so we're getting ready to file the single e uh and so uh draft is being circulated amongst the Consultants uh this week comments are due back um I think on Friday um we're going to come back in front of you you at your next meeting on October 8th um with that package uh looking for your authorization to go ahead and submit we would then submit on October 15th at which point it would be published in the environmental Monitor and the opens the public comment period that comment period closes on November 22nd and by the end of November we would then receive a comment letter um back which uh should hopefully uh conclude this process and come with a certificate of issuance um that we've resolved the meepa process with any conditions they want to put on the project then hopefully Susan will start getting money yeah then yeah once we have that in then we then hand that certificate over to the msba uh kick the doors in to to get the money flowing back to the town uh and then move forward from there sounds great I think I was on mea no Chris's other Chris gave me a few other Cliff Notes here um planning board um we talked about Monday night was a continued uh but we're almost there I think I think we've resolved most of their open items there a couple other tweaks between all these parallel processes there's always some kind of doubling back to get them up to speed uh concom is tonight we are going to let them know about the uh permanent well that we're looking to put in there for irrigation um and that's kind of the it for oh we've also engaged the uh Town leadership with the Hayden row Street improvements so uh we've had those back and forth we're working on the details of that um so that that will then uh follow on its own path uh thereabouts any other pering updates okay a couple other uh miscellaneous items so um through through the chair we've um got John to release some additional Hazmat testing for the house at 147 um so in order to put the the demo package together we just need to make sure there's no asbest uh in the house so that's I think it was about $1,100 or something yeah $1,100 that John has authorized uh to proceed there to do that uh testing um there's also uh some authorizations that we're working with John to do uh water infiltration so as part of the permitting process they've asked us to do some additional perk testing there uh and so that is proceeding in the background and oh we uh as Mike can probably fill you in more than I can but there's been a lot of hats being changed in the building inspector Department in this town uh I think uh we're up to our third mic in one month and now we got a new guy new Building Commissioner was appointed two Mondays Ago by the board of selectman uh yesterday was his first day his name is Christmas white he's very well uh comes for he worked in wster worked in L uh most recently from rhod Island um seems like a really really sharp guy uh uh Mike Saad is the zoning enforcement officer and assistant building inspector and that's who we're dealing I got I got a message out to Chris to get together just he and ey to kind of catch him up on what's going on but I know that the the building committee wants to meet with him and you know to get things squared away but he just started yesterday so I anticipate it'll be at least a week or two before he'll sit out with us right so we'll reach out to him in that week or two and get that meeting and bring him up to speed and uh hopefully flush out any of his pet peev from his past life that he's going to bring under this project so we can get that accounted for in the yeah when uh Wednesday when I left they had delivered the hard copy of the plans for the Hopkins school and Bob was saying it's a role about this and it was sitting on his desk when I left so there you go Hopkins school currently has a foundation only permit and uh we did it that way because we knew this guy was coming on and he want to look at the rest of it so I suspect there'll be no problem okay good um couple updates just to put a dollar to that infiltration so between the excavator and the civil engineers work it's about $112,000 to do that all that additional water perk testing over at the the site so we're going to work out that with John once we have all the firm numbers um we've also been meeting with the users uh you as Bob showed you kind of some of the the the updates from DD to CDs we also reviewed the technology budget we remain on budget with that so there's no major changes there uh and the project is on track and on schedule to go out to bid in March uh so that's the the track that we're working towards so the overall project we will bid the roadway project earlier uh and do an earlier start with the roadway project as we previously discussed but the main project would bid in that March time frame the road would bid around the January time frame so do that change the if I remember correctly April potential shovel in the ground or is that still on the April shovel in the ground is for Hayden row right after Marathon Monday so I can have my way about it but um you know I want the roadway project to start as early as possible not everybody agrees with me on that because it's going to take more than the summer so either take your bite early or you take it later but one way or another it'll impact the school traffic whether it's the you know April May June or September October November so I am always on the favor of getting ear earlier start but uh that's the April date it would be the uh the roadway work um that would potentially start right after the marathon do we have any other meetings with this group on the books or October so October 8th we want to meet with this group to get you to authorize us to uh to move forward with that submission to meting it's a live meeting I assume uh yeah okay it can be I mean I don't know this was a big meeting for us there was a lot of content to cover I don't know if we're going to have a lot for that meeting it could it could be a remote meeting if it's just the permitting updates I think that's because we're we're past the design updates we're past the cost updates it's really just permanent feedback from concom or planning board and me us so we could probably do a remote meeting and do you foresee anything after that that you can see in the Horizon we'll definitely get into our monthly Rhythm right of uh and then our next submission is uh 90% which is that going in Jan DEC January December January um so yeah so that I'll I'll uh get with Chris on the uh time frame on that um but that would then be just like tonight here's the changes of design here's the cost impact authorize us to submit but uh November should just be one meeting and and so should October I believe great is there anything else any other questions I think it's all everybody's happy oh remind everybody October 8 6 PM next meeting um I'll entertain a motion to close this meeting move thank you you agre I'll second it oh great with Chris yes you got something else to do buddy plenty yes yes I'll say yes thank you everyone good night good night yeah it'll be late it is going to end up being L later in January we had it in February but we're ahead of everything we're ahead of everything Jan the submission yeah okay cuz we're we're we were we're this I had to move all the way back here I keep coming e