who's going to be opening Zoom at the library um okay through the chair we're live on hcam going streaming on YouTube okay for anyone who might be watching we are um meeting was slated to start at 6 PM but we are just um Gathering we have several uh committee members including myself joining remotely tonight so it'll probably take us a couple extra minutes to get organized both in the um in the High School location and online e e e e while we are still Gathering I I should note um for the for the record I was mistaken uh when I spoke misspoke when I said the live location is at the high school uh it is in fact at the middle school library so um just wanted to make sure I clarified that just so you know we're all here we're just waiting for some hookup okay yeah we're almost ready to start joh okay can you Carol can you tell me who from the committee is in the room just so I have a sense of if we're close to quorum you're on mute if you're talking to me you're muted yeah all right so I have muted but I think have speakers so hold on I'm gonna try okay okay how about now can you hear me yeah I can hear you yep okay very good so in the room we have Chris Everly and Dan Coley um I am here person here sus R is here from traffic is here Mike and Bill okay Mike and Bill are there and we have um Nancy is on virtually and um Jag rot I see that you're on can you just confirm yes I'm I'm here okay well sorry I was going to say I know Amanda is on her way um okay except I think she may be headed to the high school library oh hopefully that's not by fault yeah um the uh but that that being said so with with Mike and Bill in the Middle School library currently and the three that we have um joining virtually as we're continuing to operate under the um the revised um virtual meeting rules we can begin because we do have a quorum um before we begin and review the agenda um this is obviously a meeting that is being conducted partially um remotely um I would note that um I personally am remote at an airport but I am in a one of these lovely little private booths so I am by myself um but also um Tiffany Ostrander will be joining late and I will be leaving early so I'll be handing off the facilitation of the meeting but unfortunately I do need to catch a flight this was a very last minute work trip that was unavoidable so do apologize but uh appreciate everyone's flexibility so I will call the meeting to order with that at 606 PM um welcome everyone to the meeting of the elementary school building committee um for the charleswood elementary school um I'll take me a little while to get used to saying that but I'll get there um I will quickly run through our agenda and then we can go ahead and get started um as soon as I find it okay so tonight um we will have our public comment period as normal um in terms of new business we'll approve meeting minutes and invoices um we'll do an update on Street improvements um we'll look at the current cost estimate and project budget updates as well as the life cycle cost updates um we'll talk about proprietary items for the project um we will review and consider authorizing the submission of our meepa and permitting um submissions and then finally we will vote to um do our um detailed design submission to the msba and we will look to adjourn hopefully as close to 8 o'clock as possible um so with that um we can begin with the public comment period uh I don't know if there's anyone in the room for public comment I do see some members of the public on the zoom so um if any of the people on the zoom would like to uh make a public comment uh please go ahead and come off mute and I'll recognize you and we can go from there okay um Albert and Arena I'm sorry it's the name cut oh sorry Albert and Arena kasanov uh if you could go off mute feel free to comment uh hi we are from 149 Hayden row and essentially we just met VI Engineers uh about 10 15 minutes ago and the question that we would like to discuss is the rationale of The Pedestrian work on uh that essentially leads to nowhere so what's the rationale uh why is it cutting into yeah so so I'm not sure he's got a limited cut like this so um so Albert thank you for joining just for the context of the public who may be viewing as part of the traffic improvements uh the impact of the street improvements to Hayden row were flagged on Monday and the butters were able to see the results of those which we just walked prior to this meeting um the one of the first things on the agenda tonight is a presentation by the traffic engineer so it would probably be good if we walked through that presentation and when we get to that area of the plan we can expand on the reasons why and then we can have a question and answer at the end that's right with you John okay makes sense yeah I think that would be fine um if there are no objections we can um somewhat extend the the public comment portion so that Albert if if your question isn't thoroughly answered um and you have a followup we can we can entertain it at that point but I I agree with Chris I think that makes sense um Chris is there anyone in the room for public comment uh no there is not okay um I do see a couple other people who I can't identify there's a phone number and a DOT so if um if you're interested in in public comment please come off mute and identify yourself okay then we will move along uh the next item on the agenda is the approval of meeting minutes uh in your packet you will have had the meeting minutes from our last meeting that I just lost from the last meeting you were unable to consider the minutes um due to some of the difficulties you had with the zoom so they were tabled so these are the same minutes for March 12th that were presented at that meeting okay so we have the minutes from the March 12th um 2024 uh esbc meeting are there any questions or edits to those okay hearing none I would seek a motion to approve those meeting minutes Mike Shephard I'm move that we approve the minutes March 24 as written is there a second second okay I have a motion by Mike and a second by bill um we are a roll call vote because of our remote participants I will start in the room Mike yes sir Bill yes Nancy yes d yes and I am a yes so the meeting minutes are approved unanimously 5 okay uh next we've got some bills to pay um in your packet you had an invoice package um with four uh invoices to pay one for vertex project management in the amount of 34263 199 that's invoice OPM 111624 um for Perkins Eastman 95421 00004 is the invoice number um total amount of that invoice is $48,990 um we then have two invoices payable to Lucas environmental invoice 23372 and 23431 in the amount of $50 and $330 respectively our total invoice package this evening amounts to 500 43,5 4659 are there any questions regarding the invoices for the committee's knowledge uh Lucas environmental is the peie is the pewer okay if everybody in the room but Chris could go on mute just because we're getting some uh some feedback um so again so any questions on the invoices um okay hearing none I would seek a motion to approve the invoice package in the agenda materials so moved second sir okay motion by Bill second by Mike we are roll call again Mike yes sir Bill yes Nancy yes J Groot yes and I am a yes so the invoices are approved unanimously five to zero um Chris at this point I will largely turn the agenda over to you to run um given the fact that it's all presentations but I'll I'll obviously drop back in for when we need votes um given that I'm kind of a bit remote here you and Dan collectively I guess depending on who's talking so we have a couple of things that we wanted to go through tonight um as you all know and just in case anybody didn't remember we have uh we have retired the Elmwood name for the new school and we are now the charleswood school so I put this helpful reminder at the top um we really we really appreciate the the design on the that's some you know some Top Class PowerPoint work there so for tonight's meeting um we obviously just approved the meeting minutes and the invoices um VOD from VHB is here with us tonight to present the um development on the street improvements for Hayden row um we're going to go over the cost estimate and provide a budget update on the various um the reconciled cost estimates and where we are from an overall budget standpoint at the end of the SU development um we're going to touch on the life cycle cost update which is component of the DD report that we're going to be giving to the msba but it's largely information you've all heard before um we'll touch on and vote on the proprietary items that are the um items that the town would like to buy proprietary because they already have an existing system or use where um that is advantageous to the town that requires a vote um we're going going to give you an update on where we are with the uh meepa and perming submissions and finally we will ask you to authorize the chair to approve the final mspa DD report which is on schedule to be submitted to the msba this Friday so with that I will turn it over to the node thanks Chris um is there a time limit on or how many minutes do I have to the committee I have my timer on there is a time limit else thank you everyone uh again my name is V Kiki I'm a senior Transportation planner traffic engineer with the firm of BHB uh BHB has been the traffic engineer record on this project working with the Perman vertex team on the overall uh a development plan and as you may recall uh last year through I guess most of the Year actually we were we have had several conversations on traffic and transportation issues there was a very comprehensive Transportation study that we submitted back in July of last year but then there were a lot more Deep dive specific areas of traffic and circulation both inside on the site as well as on in Road street that that we looked at all the way leading up to the town meeting vote uh and one of the key things that came out of that whole process was uh the need to look at uh traffic flow and safety both for vehicles as well as for pedestrians and bicyclist along Hayden rad Street and how those conditions exist today and what we could do as part of this project as part of the offsite improvements for the the new school uh what we could do on Hayden Road Street to help improve some of those conditions uh in addition to offsetting the impact of the project itself so that was a big piece of the analysis and the documentation we had prepared uh at the town meeting Ro we I believe leading up to those meetings we did mention that uh we'll be revisiting this topic of the offsite traffic improvements on on Hayden R Street uh multiple times along the way before before the project goes into construction so this is I would say at least from my point of view one of those first meetings where we could get into a little bit more of a deep dive into the specifics of the offside traffic improvements um I have a whole series of slides here in the interest of time I'll try to go through them as efficiently as possible but feel free to uh interject or ask questions as as you see fit so the section of road that we're looking at uh and that we looked at even as part of our original traffic study is is henro Street between uh Chestnut Street on the left edge of of this graphic and essentially the gr Street signal the on the right side so that's about a mile long stretch of Hayden rad Street plus or minus um the school axis are the two driveways one one for the new school uh charleswood school as well as the existing driveway for Marathon School are somewhere just approximately halfway along that Corridor it's about half a mile between the two signals is is where the those two driveways are today uh or the new driveway will be and and then right kind know next to it would be the existing Marathon driveway uh the existing Marathon driveway obviously is an unsignalized intersection currently it's controlled by uh crossing guard during the peak times for for students to cross the street but also the cring guard service a double duty of facilitating traffic flow and bus turning into an out of the marathon school during peak time so the traffic flow smoothly so that was part of our uh study area and we uh if you can go to the next slide CL uh so out of that process was was again a very focused review of the intersection of the marathon School driveway and and hidden roast and the reason why we picked this intersection uh specifically is because because it's already serving the marathon school and when you look at the site plan for the overall project for the new school uh we are looking at at a cross connection between the two schools so traffic doesn't necessarily need to leave one driveway and and access to the other school from Hayden rad Street you could travel between the two schools via that internal connection so what that internal connection does is is provide the ability to provide additional traffic control at a location along this Corridor that provides the most benefit for for the traffic flow on uh on Hayden rad stre I mean you could consider a signal only at the new school driveway uh I mean there are other technical limitations for doing that but based on the analysis we did uh previously uh we we have determined that uh a change in traffic control at the marathon School driveway would have the most benefit for traffic associ iated with both schools while at the same time helping improve the traffic flow along Hayden R Street and improve pedestrian safety so one of the things that you see in some of the text on this graphic I won't read all of that text is that uh there is a lot of backup that happens whenever there's traffic turning into and out of the marathon school and and that happens that same thing happens at the Hopkin School driveway it happens at the middle school curb Cuts as well as the high school driveways but uh in this instance we're focusing on the marathon School driveway whenever the the crossing guard facilitates turning traffic or stops the traffic flow to allows uh pedestrians to cross the street that immediately backs up traffic in both directions on on Hayden rad stre and there is an existing turn lane in the southbound direction for traffic that wants to turn into Marathon school and currently because there's only one School uh on the east side of in rad Street in this uh in this graphic that CH Lan only supports Marathon school and even that traffic is not fully accommodated you constantly see that turn L being exceeded by cars and school buses that are that try to turn into the marathon school and as soon as the queue backs up uh the turn lane is exceeded and the through tra and the traffic turning traffic spills into the through Lane that backs up traffic the through traffic that spills back to the grow Street signal and Beyond quite often during those pink times and especially when that congestion starts building up on Hayden Road Street traffic uh exiting Marathon school will also have trouble and as you would have noticed there are fewer gaps in the traffic flow for traffic coming out of marathon school to turn so the manual intervention of the crossing guard occasionally during school buses or when there's an occasional pedestrian that once to cross the street in and of itself causes a lot of congestion at this intersection and it does spill up and down hiden Road Street as well as up the driveway for for Marathon school and this is under current conditions we go to the next slide um there are a few other things that we observed and some of this is built into the the traffic study that that uh that we submitted back in July of last year uh item a is what I just mentioned the left sh Lane is inadequate obviously you know when when there's is growth in in student enrollment for the entire District there's close to a 50% increase in in projected enrollment uh over the next 10 years in Hopkinton there would be more uh School related traffic on Hayden R Street and there would be increase in traffic just for Marathon Point those future traffic volumes would need to be accommodated with anything that we come up with uh um the new school again based on our analysis rather than just relying on a cross connection and access to the marathon driveway we established that there would be need for an additional access and UNS signalized access for the school uh that was one of the things that we found with the traffic study there's a need for pedestrians to have a more safe and convenient Crossing opportunity across Hayden Road street again today the full signals are one mile apart at either end of this graphic and so if a pedestrian needs to cross at the marathon school today they would have to activate the push button to get the flashing light on it's not an active control in the sense that traffic just has to follow state law and yield to the pedestrians there is no requirement for for vehicles to stop and and quite often you see that happen especially during off peak hours traffic does uh travel at a higher speed along the corridor um the circle e that you see on traffic is actually a cross traffic of buses between Hopkinson uh between Hopkins school and Marathon school when school buses travel between the two schools to pick up and drop off students uh both intersections actually uh generate quite a bit of activity as as crossing guards uh try to get get the buses to travel between those two driveways under current conditions that adds to the condition um and then uh the traffic and then the the one thing that we have heard quite a few times during the traffic study process and the meetings leading up up to to the town meeting boot is the difficulty that a lot of the curb Cuts unsignalized driveways and the side streets vehicles on those unsignalized side streets have in terms of turning into Hayden roast and that's primarily because you have the through traffic flowing up and down in rad street without a lot of interruptions there are very few gaps in the traffic flow for for vehicles on the side streets to turn and again with the two signals one mile apart there isn't really any significant break in traffic that's currently provided between the two signals and that was identified as one of the main reasons for why there are fewer gaps in traffic especially during PE times so those are the types of issues that we identified and studied as part of traffic analysis and that form the basis of our mitigation plan that that we'll get into next the next slide so some of the other things that we took into account uh when we develop some recommendations as part of the traffic study uh are what's listed out there for example when when you hear the concern that the school traffic is actually causing uh you know it's that's the traffic that's causing some of the congestion and the backups actually when you look at uh charleswood school or previously the hood School traffic start and end times that's not the time when traffic on Hayden Road Street Peaks Hayden Road Traffic actually Peaks earlier in the day in the morning and earlier in the afternoon when the high school and middle school traffic is is at its spe so by the time that the elementary school traffic comes out on to Hayden Road Street it's actually the Turning traffic in and out of the driveways that causes some of the congestion not necessarily just volum of traffic so a solution that helps manage that turning traffic better would have uh a beneficial impact on the overall traffic flow on the corridor um the second bullet that talks about occasionally you know off peak hours if there is a resident that's turning off of penro Street into a driveway or or on side street street that would not have a significant impact but as you have multiple cars tens of cars trying to turn into each of these schools that that congestion does build up and the cues to uh spill out up and down the corridor causing additional congestion uh crossing guards as I mentioned on the corridor uh in addition to helping uh students cross the street also help with traffic flow that is not something that's desirable or should be done in general crossing guards are generally intended to uh to serve uh pedestrian uh Crossings and and make sure that the uh students are crossing the street safely but in this instance they almost serve as as traffic lights uh helping you know stopping traffic on Hayden r street so traffic coming out of the driveways can can enter and exit uh it talked about the enrollment growth close to 50% increase in overall traffic uh compared to current conditions that's over the next 10 years and we need to take that into account uh which needs to be addressed both with uh physical improvements such as roadway widenings increased turn Lanes but also traffic control changes that that we'll talk about next um just one of the slides of data from the traffic study itself this graphic or this slide shows uh the amount of traffic that would be associated with the new School uh the second and third grade uh traffic but that's traffic in 1 hour in the morning uh peak time of the new school and then the afternoon peak time of the new school for grades two and three and added to that would be the fourth grade traffic that would be relocated from uh Hopkins school for a total that shows up on the right edge of the C those numbers are pretty substantial and and those numbers that's that's what we're trying to accommodate uh with traffic improvements and all these numbers that you see on this slide are future projections going out 10 years so these are not the current members these are future growth projections that includes that 50% growth in enrollment next slide please so the solutions that that we' have identified and I'll get into more specific plan sheets and uh what this graphic shows uh is you in addition to a series of improvements that we have developed in the sites circulation on site which are labeled as number four on that graphic which is the internal cross connection uh roundabout controlling the intersection of of the new driveway with the cross connection and the circulating roadway around uh charleswood school that can accommodate significant queuing so none of these cues have you know would would spill back onto Hayden rad Street in addition to that we're looking at a series of improvements on uh hiden row Street including a fully signalized intersection at the intersection of marathon school drivein and Hayden rad Street that's number five uh and in addition to adding uh additional length to the turn length that exist today it's barely capable of supporting a few cars five or six cars and and we would need more than that uh during each cycle of the signal to accommodate longer cues in the future so uh there's some geometric improvements there that turn lane would also be extended all the way down to the new school driveway uh which is labeled as uh number two then one would be the new school driveway itself that would have a right turn only restriction so left turns if you want to make a left turn coming out of the new school uh the way to do it most efficiently would be to use the cross connection and use the traffic signal at Marathon scool for making a left TR which more efficient than than what vehicles do currently with an unsignalized intersection and then operationally I know the district has been making significant changes planning significant changes to the school bus routes and operations consolidation of routes that would help traffic flow as well along this C slide so uh and I've zoomed in views of of this graphic but the plan that we develop for the corridor that section of uh Hayden Rose Street between essentially would say the new driveway uh and then a little past the existing driveway for Marathon School a total length of about 1,600 ft of roadway is what is shown on this graphic the light gray is is the existing pavement that's that's that's what is out there for the roadway withd and what you see in the dark gray is the new pavement so those are the areas of the widening that we talking about to accommodate the future crosssection that you would need for Hayden Road Street to accommodate the future traffic flows and the turn lane lens and and other other changes that we're looking at if you go to the next slide so to get a better understanding of what these improvements look like we broke up the the plan sheet into three different segments one two and three so we'll just quickly go through each of those three areas so segment one is near the new driveway uh ches Street to the left and grow Street to the right of this slide uh you'll see that it's a right turn out only driveway coming out of the new school uh and then there is a left churn new left churn pocket that's shown on Hayden r street that would keep traffic that wants to enter the new school outside of of through traffic so the through traffic would not be blocked by traffic that wants to turn into the new school uh there would be essentially an added Lane on H row Street uh on this section where it's shown as at at cross-section line AA it's shown at 143 Hayden row Street uh you can actually see the cross-sectional view at the bottom uh with West on the left side of the graphic and East on the right side of the graphic the house in pale green on the right is 143 Hayden row Street uh You' actually see the the proposed cross-section there are three lanes of travel 10 10 ft feet each plus 4 foot shoulders along uh both sides of the road existing sidewalk remains untouched on the west side of of that cross-section and then the widening is shown on the right side with uh the utility poles that that exist along uh Hayden Road street that would need to be relocated uh when when the roadway gets wi um you could just address Mr um kav's uh question there is this extension of the sidewalk we walked um Mike and I walked before the meeting and when you walk it it really appears like a sidewalk to Nowhere no sidewalk going down that side of the that that is correct so this is something that came we we met with the public works staff as well few weeks ago to talk about these plans in concept and that was something that came up even during that conversation uh one thing I I forgot to mention is that these plant are still what I would call as at the 10% level so there's still a lot more work that needs to be done we heard from Public Works saying you know maybe there is no need to keep that uh you know area of sidewalk or the walking area that exists today because it doesn't connect to anything on that side but there may be other reasons to maintain it in case the town plans to extend That Sidewalk in the future but again that green strip that shown on that graphic that you know that doesn't need to be there the sidewalk can or the asphalt can R run right along the edge of the road and you don't have that pump into towards the property but again those are all finer details of the design that I would say we would get into uh as as we advance the design again we're right now we're at the 10% stage The Next Step will likely be what we call as a 25% design uh and then a final design so I expect uh working with public works and and feedback from Neighbors similar to what we heard what what the group heard today uh we would be revisiting some of those areas and trying to minimize the amount of winding that we need to accommodate in that that was our initial pass at it but it doesn't it it could take a different form by the time it's done and V sorry just to just to clarify to operationally when it comes to like a pedestrians who might be leaving or coming to the school again that that sidewalk just ends abruptly with nowhere to go whereas that crosswalk would be sort of The Pedestrian route coming out of the school they cross and then they have the sidewalk on the other side of Hayden Ro that that is correct yes there will be push button actuated uh flashing beacons right at that crosswalk similar to the flashing Beacon that exists today at Marathon School uh and that crosswalk is what really pedestrians would need to use if they have to go farther distance up and down the car uh again the attempt what we showed there with that yellow or t color sidewalk is to just restore uh an improved sidewalk section similar to what exists today but if that's not something that town uh is interested in keeping that can be eliminated still without affecting the functionality of The Pedestrian accommodations that we're designing here okay if anybody happens to walking this area just for your own knowledge um each one of the spikes is lab with what it represents so if it's indicating a walkway the spike is labeled walkway if it's the Ed pavement it's labeled EDC payment a relocated utility poll it's labeled as such okay thank you chis yeah I think just to to close loop on this particular specific issue it sounds like we need to continue that conversation with DPW um because if they agree that the sidewalk soles serves no functional purpose yeah it seems U the other thing I also want to mention uh is that we've made every effort in this design to not encroach into private property with any type of takings uh or permanent easements so everything that you see on the plans here can be done entirely within the public RightWay so the two blue lines that you see on either side of Hayden row Street that's that's the right of way of Hayden row street that the town controls and you'll see that all improvements fit within that right of way or or within the school property in the case of uh in the case of the driveway uh but that said again if if a section of sidewalk is not needed there's obviously no need to maintain it and and that can be easily removed uh the only thing that that eventually when you get into construction that may come up is is temporary access onto private property to be able to feather out uh mulch or Landscaping uh tying up driveways into existing condition there might be lose ends that that would need some type of a temporary uh entry onto uh property front ages but there are no takings or easements permanent easements associated with this project okay thank you and just just before we move off of this section um so I want to make sure we we uh confirm Mr kasanov if that answered Ian I know it didn't fully answer your question in terms of the resolution but um the the follow on here is we need to have a further conversation with DPW um and I I I don't think you know while while the committee hasn't discuss this in full I I don't think we have any um we don't want to maintain we don't want to to sort of in we don't want to widen the road where we don't have to so if that sidewalk has no functional purpose we would certainly look at removing we certainly look at removing that from the design but we need that input from DPW first yeah that makes sense thank you okay thank you all right venot appreciate it if you can want to keep going thank you um and then only other thing I want to point out again this and the next couple of slides as well is that the total width of widening so the dark dark gray area that you see between uh the existing edge of the road and the new edge of the road is 10 feet or less so that that's the actual uh widening that we're looking at it's order of bang about 10 ft uh in some areas it it Narrows down substantially as you get closer to the marathon score driveway next slide please so this is uh the next segment uh going past that so this is uh between uh house number 139 uh that you see in the bottom left 134 on the top right uh so that's the SE uh section where again the the left turn pocket that we are uh proposing uh for the new school driveways see that being tapered out with the yellow hash marks that see in the pavement that's an area where uh you could theoretically extend the left turn pocket if needed but we didn't feel that that area needs to be used for left turn at this stage but it will be available needed in the future um but then when you get to the marathon School driveway that's where you see uh and have a closeup view of that intersection but that's where we would have the new fully actuated traffic signal with pedestrian traffic next can you just speak a little bit to the decisions that went into the lane width and shoulder width sure so the existing Lane widths in on the right edge of this slide today is about 10 feet so the existing left turn pocket is 10 feet the through Lane is 10 feet the both in the northb and southbound directions and then the shoulders uh on either side it range es from 2 to 3 ft 2 to 4T or so so that's what the existing condition is on the North End of of the corridor as you go to the south end of the corridor where there is no turn lane it's it's about 12 foot lanes and again about two to three foot two to four foot shoulder um but what we try to do here again from a traffic calming perspective is to make sure that we have a uniform consistent width for for the roadway for the travel Lanes so rather than jumping between 10t 11t 12 feet for different different sections of the road over a 1600 ft of road which is not not really that long if you're driving driving a car in this caror we chose to keep the on the plant uh we kept the 10 foot Lanes through the through the steady area and again that provides a traffic calming mechanism where Vehicles would not have the full 12T Lane to to travel uh but then work working with tpw and and their feedback they did Express an interest to have wider shoulders so rather than having two or three foot shoulders they wanted to see uh four foot shoulders so what you see on this plan actually is consistent consistently throughout the the limits of the project 10 foot lanes for through traffic and turning traffic and then 4 foot shoulders in both the Northbound and southbound directions and what that does is the additional four feet of shoulder uh that can help with bicycle travel should someone choose to ride a bike out here uh but also it helps with drainage so the if in a heavy rainstorm condition that the water that's running along the G does not spill out into the through travel Lanes so there are a lot of benefits and if there was a need to uh pave a section of the road in the future there would be additional width within the shoulders to be able to make up uh travel Lane withd so they you don't have to create a lot of detours so there are a lot of benefits with having the four-foot shoulders while still preserving the the traffic calming potential that you get with with the 10 foot Lanes so that's the crosssection that we have here um we have preliminarily reviewed that with the public works and again we'll we'll continue to to review it with them as we go through the design process uh this is a pass the marathon School driveway heading north towards Hilltop Road and then row street is is farther beyond the sheet this is where you have the the the trees and the wooded area on the right side as you're heading north with guard rail protection so what you see at the bottom with the crosssection is that the widening which is the right side of the of the road uh is 10 feet or less of widening can accommodate um the the turn lenses that we need the longer turn lenses that we need in the southbound Direction uh but we would need to to relocate uh the guard rail or or put in new guard rail some slope modifications uh but all of that can again still be completed within the public go back to the previous can I talk about the light yes that's that's the next next slide thank you so this is a zoomed in view of of what what is referred to as a traffic signal layout so those those little triangular uh shapes that you see in the middle of the road are actually signal heads and they're pointing in different directions so there is that line that you see in the middle can point to that CH the Mast arm yes so that's a 45 foot 40 foot Mast arm uh that that sticks over over the street so it's 40 feet long with two signal heads uh pointing to the Northbound traffic three signal heads pointing to the southbound traffic uh and then two signal heads pointing towards the marathon school drive and then in addition to that there is a The Pedestrian crosswalk there at that intersection would have push button actuated control so that when a pedestrian pushes the button all traffic is stopped so what is currently accomplished with the the crossing guard can actually be done with a fully actuated traffic sign so and that feature would be available throughout the day it's not just for the hour hour and 20 minutes or however long the crossing guard is available today that's the only time when when that full protection is available for crossing the street but with a fully actuated traffic signal this would provide a safe Crossing location halfway in between uh the two existing signals that are out there which are one M which are one mile apart in this so This provides a convenient Midway point between the two existing signals for pedestrians to cross from the west side of hden row onto the East Side to get to the marathon school and then can walk along the marathon School driveway and along the internal connection to get to the new school and so is the service the driveway so the driveway for for the property across the street uh because they fall within the zone of influence of of that traffic signal they would have uh signal indications as well so they'll be able to function within the phasing of the traffic signal and they'd be able to enter and exit with full traffic signal control as if they they were the marathon scho driving and what would trigger that so there would be sensors that would be located and we have to still figure out what type of Technology Public Works uh would like for for traffic signal actuation you could have in pavement sensors or it could have camera based uh detect ction so there could be a camera sitting on the on the mastam and it would sense vehicles in all four directions and when there is a vehicle that's approaching or waited for a certain number of seconds then the light would turn green for that approach and they would process and then when Once the queue is cleared up then then the light turns red and it goes to serve serve the other directions now right right next to that house it's right across from the marathon driveway it's 136 as I recall and then you have chain indry is the light somehow going to accommodate those people trying to get out it's going to make it better worse so uh that's a common question that comes up obviously you know when when you consider traffic signal control it it does not make sense to put traffic signal controls at every un signalized what what we' have done in this instance is identify one key location where you could provide signal control and in this case it's the Marathon School driveway but when that light turns red that stops for example think about traffic heading both Northbound and southbound and as the queue is cleared the light turns red for for uh headden row Street and then the traffic from Marathon driveway starts moving that's when Chamberlain Street and curb cut they have a break in the through traffic flow that doesn't exist today today the traffic flows you know whenever they they can move without the crossing guards uh interrupting the traffic flow that one mile Corridor traffic has free flow conditions and those understand I don't have it now a gentleman at 136 asked about that when we on a s sidewalk earlier we just want to make sure that we'll make it better for them not wor the operations for the curb Cuts closest to the intersection are likely going to be better than then un signalized condition and then it you would expect that same kind of beneficial operation for other curve Cuts as well when the traffic is interrupted and you know to take a typical speed on this car there is about 38 miles per hour 39 miles per hour if you stop a vehicle that's traveling at that speed it takes again when the light trans get takes time for those vehicles to get back to those speeds so that provides actually a lot more braks in traffic than than what's happening today so that's that's a beneficial effect I mean you don't put up traffic signals for speed control but but uh beneficial secondary benefit in this Cas is is the speed control that you can is there value to striping a um a line for Chamberland and Hayden row Street meet or like don't block the boxing that's typically done as well and again it's it's a DPW preference it's Town standards if if town of Hopkinton uh has interest in in trying that out that's definitely something that could be used so you essentially strike uh box on in the pavement on on Hayden R Street says do not block the box so traffic heading north uh when the light let's say lights's red and and the traffic's coming up that would provide an indication that the traffic should not go Part Stop in that striped area blocking Chamberlain Street uh the effectivess of of or the enforcement of that or how effective it is in terms of drivers following it is is is is something that depends on the driver Behavior but having that would definitely help and when we as we do these discussions with uh DPW going forward I know venod said it's a sort of a DPW preference it's something that we've discussed with some of the neighbors there um and I it should be a strong push to to do it and so um let me know when those conversations are happening because it seems like it's it's very little investment for the potential benefit that it could provide sure Y what can be done with the traffic signals that would reduce the impact for the Neighbors at night other words it's you're going to see red lights yellow lights green lights is there any need to that after school hours for example um I'm trying to think of it you know the people that are right there at that intersection so there are time based traffic signals like you know after a certain time of the day they can go into flashing uh I mean you can't turn off the signals fully but they can go into flashing but that that provides an added level of I would say nuisance if you had like flashing lights that's a lot more intrusive than having steady lights but what I would say in this instance is once the school's done let's say you know 4:00 5:00 after school activities everything's done there is really no reason for the light to be triggered unless if estrian pushes the button or or an occasional car comes out of the driveway or something so the light can stay green on the mainline it doesn't need to cycle through All Phases it just stays green on on haen RAD Street and uh there are certain filters or or there could be directional technologies that can be built into the lens that doesn't have the glare spreading out in the in the sides yeah there's a there's a do section over and up and when I'm going left to go to actually it's heading towards West BR you have to be at a certain spot exactly to see that green light there if you're further back or a little bit too close you can't see it that's the kind of thing we need there a programmable lenses and they're used quite often that way the neighbors get I mean that's something we could look at in this instance and see applic that would be a good thing because that'll be this whole traffic say s is going to be the biggest hurdle for us if we can accommodate them the best we can it' be great yeah the other thing with with uh going into a flash mode is that uh The Pedestrian buttons would not be functional at that point for The Pedestrian buttons to work the light should be on continuously so if there's a need if if someone wants to walk through the school you know at 6: pm. they should be able to benefit from the push button actuated sign and then be able to cross the street so for that reason I would suggest that that there not be a flashing mode in the nights but a programmable lens like nights weekends summer you know there's a lot of days when those lights could probably stay somewhat stagnant go to the next uh slide I think that yeah that covered all of the things so I I did want to close with a few notes that uh and what are what what is the alternative why a traffic signal so traffic signal installation is is driven by federal standards so it's not something that we would go out or anybody would go out and just install it on Des it needs to meet certain thresholds there are certain requirements that need to be met and even when they're met there needs to be engineering judgment that backs up the installation of a traffic signal so we went through that process in this instance and we felt that uh especially during the peak hours there would be a need uh for traffic signal at the marathon School driveway to handle future traffic flow uh it would not only help the two schools but it'll also as we talked about it the the curb cuts and unsignalized intersections along the corridor as well uh the variation or or an alternative I guess is what I listed there as item number five if you did not consider a traffic signal it doesn't mean that uh you don't need the G ometry you would still need the roadway widening that's what helps with the Q stack so it's not like you know you you don't do the traffic signal then you don't get the wi you still need to do the roadway wind for the capacity and all you would end up with likely is is the need for police details as opposed to crossing guards to control traffic during the PE temps an hour and a half in the morning an hour and a half in the evening to be able to control that intersection functioning as a traffic signal if if you didn't put up a a full traffic signal that that's likely the scenario that that you would be looking at once the traffic flows and and then the enrollment growth happens in the future that's that's all I had okay um questions from the committee please Amanda is at the limit of the microphone John [Music] uh if you can go actually think it's the next one CH is site layout yeah so you're talking about the the roundabout and the cross connection to Marathon School versus coming out at the at the new driveway what what percentage about Charles students live south yeah it's not just traffic going uh living South I guess it's also work traffic right it's a parents drop of students and then they come out and they're not going back home you know they're going to work so we looked at that extensively during the traffic study not only for Marathon school but we looked at all of the school driveways up and down the corridor and what we've identified is about is a 60 40% split so about 40% again it's not precise but about 40% of the traffic is oriented south or 60% is oriented north towards Main Street so so when the school out so 40% that say to then come out and blend with 100% of marathon they're probably not going to go through the connector even you know to go right I mean like all of the marathon and so we did run more recently as part of the site plan development for this project we spent quite a bit of time I mean I didn't get into that as part of this presentation because this was mostly Hayden Road street but we looked at the geometry of each of those internal roadways and when you look at the site plans that's been submitted as part prepared as part of the project you'll actually see turn lanes and flares and widening there are there geometric variations so it's not just two parall lines defining both edges of those internal streets there's actually geometry on those driveways to accommodate the estimated traffic flow uh between the schools so there is geometry there and we've actually identified that the roundabout would actually be a better treatment for that internal intersection than a T intersection with stops and just just given the amount of traffic that would be processing at that intersection so we did look at that closely and I'm sure as we go through the site plan review process we'll probably be getting into more of that discussion as a question on pull up Point number two on the stacking 18 plus buses assuming buses come in two w is there a scenario where they wouldn't come in two waves uh currently they're shared by the two schools and so you would need enrollment growth to grow to the point that each School needed its own Fleet of buses which is a lot of enrollment growth because the schools would be dismissing and starting at the same time you would take the fleet and and drop and pick up and switch and again because we have that internal um cross it it's the most efficient as opposed to now where we go back out on to hayen row and back into a school so I understand there have been some adjustments to start and stop times for some of the schools up in this area is there more that needs to be done or do you feel pretty good about where you were where you are now well obviously when the new school comes in have to make another adjust so the only thing that we have changed right now is for Hopkins we drop off all the students there first parents were very concerned of about their students getting to class with enough time whereas Marathon school because of um supervision do not let the kids off the buses until all teachers are prepared to receive their kids so it's a very different um climate between Hopkins and Marathon so that's where we allow the Hopkins buses to arrive and drop earlier than we ever wood at Marathon so when we go to Marathon Elmwood I imagine we'll go back to the waiting for the supervision 36 buses half coming from each direction will go through that rotary yes and cross along with parents and the the one thing I wanted to mention about uh bus stacking again yeah the numbers we modeled were based on what we got from the school district but there's enough geometry that's being proposed both on Hayden Road Street with the turn Lanes extended turn lane at the signal and then the turn lane that goes to the new driveway but also all of the circulation on site that can more than adequately handle the traffic that that you would expect to to use or go to the new school and whatever goes to Marathon obviously that that projection we also projected that to the Future so I think from a physical space perspective I think there's room to accommodate the buses but again but we we just modeled what what we had for the analysis kind of build on Amanda's concern Amanda I think because of the timing of kids loading buses a lot of the parents will have cleared the rotary by the time the buses are getting ready to make their descent through so you know so we're waiting for all the buses to load and then they release those parents are already picking up their kids and driving out so I think there'll be less there be some but I think there'll be less than what your thought is right now everybody's leaving at the same time and converging on the Sur you're gonna have to have some let's call it Q Evolution as parents learn how this all works you'll have everyone coming in this driveway and they'll be going down and it may be that that a better solution for Marathon is to have the marathon parents all get shoveled in go around the rotary and the marathon parents come back and Quee here because they have this whole length to build up and the um Elmwood or the charleswood parents would have this whole length to Q which is which is substantial um compared to anywhere else on site the the one thing that I think bod's team is really going to have to look closely at is that we don't get to the point where they cue Beyond this point or they QB on this point because this cross connect could become narrow and the buses wouldn't be able to circulate past the parents so what one thing we did look at uh again is obviously this is all based on the modeling and the projections that we have and this is 10 years out in the future with with the growth and everything else so what you see here is there are no physical limitations on any of the turns even that no left turn coming out of the no uh out of the new driveway is just something we are suggesting at this point because traffic has the ability to use use the signal but once the school is up and running and let's say six months or year down the road as most schools do there is a revisit of the traffic flow in circulation there's almost always some adjustments that need to happen and you know we start with a certain circulation plan and there would need to be tweaks so as long as the plan that we are building doesn't preclude adjustments in the future because that's the toughest thing like if you design it so a certain turn that cannot happen and then it'll be that much more of a hassle to restore that in the future so we're designing this so that there's enough flexibility to have those changes happen six months a year down the road based on actual operations and expect the school would probably go through that process that's that's a good point yeah there are here a lot of so um I apologize for in interrupting the the traffic conversation um which can continue but I did want to note unfortunately as I mentioned I'm going to have to drop early to catch a flight um Tiffany Ostrander has is on the meeting right now and I think actually will be at the middle school shortly so we do still have a quorum um but uh thank you everyone thanks good night John is there anything else on traffic questions just a name in sure Mike 136 R Street um I had a question pertaining to the leftand turn lane into 147 I guess the new entrance to the school you mentioned about future proofing that entrance or not using the roadway that you may be able to use in front of 136 what would be the criteria for extending the turn lane into the new entrance oh uh Chris if you could go back to that slide that shows the middle section I guess so you're So you you're talking about that yellow striped area in the middle we had a great site walk for today but this is the left hand turn L into the new entrances I'm concern of stacking there and then if you were to use those Dash lines that seems quite cumbersome so it's a little out of my being in so yeah right now we we don't see at least based on the projected analysis there is no need to stripe that yellow slashed area for churn Lane and that's why we're actually showing it as as gold and not as a turn lane uh and really the time when that left turn at the new driveway gets used is let's say there is a parent or there's a long line of cars parents going to the marathon school and then car five of car six is is heading to the new school they don't necessarily need to wait at the signal to turn into uh into the signalized intersection and then use the cross connection they can use the PIP the through lane and then use the left turn pocket farther down to enter the new driveway and based on our modeling the the length of that Chine was designed to accommodate the longest Quee that we expect to be there which which is which is that length that you see there for that presently designed as eight cars and the present day marathon is designed as five to six I have that right present day marathon is about five four to six or 5 to six cars would be more than doubling that it's about 130 to 150 feet today the the new length uh comparing the present day Marathon at 5 to six to the proposed design of of the new entrance still eight cars it's it's more than eight cars I think it was eight cars on this side not I think this side 20 is it yeah it's much much longer the at the signal we'd have a much longer turn Lan just because that's that would be the first preference but we just wanted to have the ability for parents to use the UN signalized driveway if they choose to do that but yeah that's about eight eight to 10 cars probably more than eight uh but yeah it's somewhere in the but it's a good amount of distance on on that side whereas compared to this this is um cut in about half between the two slides so it's a it's at least 18 maybe 20 cars 400 400 feet uh you're probably looking at somewhere in the order of 18 cars okay questions on traffic as I cover for Tiffany before she becomes official chair we talked with the residents during the walk about the value that that gives them because one of the early concerns that we heard was that going to get your mail can be quite the ordeal and so by pulling back the shoulder and pulling back the mail delivery point um you can actually stand at the mailbox grab your mail and you've got a couple of feet behind you before you're in the roadway which is an improvement over what they currently have any other questions on traffic so our next um series of items great series of items all relate to where we are in the overall projects so um last week I distributed to the poll committee the design development set um so you could see the design that Perkins has developed um what we're going to talk through now is where the cost estim ended up where we are from an overall budget standpoint and also where we are versus where we were from a value engineering standpoint versus where the drawings are now and some of the choices and options that committee has in front of them so starting with the um design development estimates we are under budget um we had an Fogerty and PM and C both um estimate the project we met last Wednesday to reconcile and at the tail end of that reconcile we were within a 1% says a million dollars but that is less than 1% um so we were able to to reconcile at um 122 m488 167 versus PM andc is 123 m571 195 uh the msba has this used the designer estimate is sort of the estimate of record so at this point the um estimate would be um $76 per square foot and if you recall from um the town meeting that means that we have dropped from town meeting by about I do math wrong I had $8 a square foot um in terms of the the size of the building which is which is a good um amount officially the estimate has two alternates one alternate is to drop the number of Wells by 10 Wells currently we have 12600 foot Wells as part of the project um cmta is doing an analysis currently to confirm that um that drop in 10 Wells uh works but based on the information we received at the Hopkins project the test well that we did there it does appear reasonable um that we will be able to drop by um that number of of wealth um they did not object but sort of qualified their response that they're continuing to review it it is not necessary to take that deduction tonight we are under budget so the committee does not have to take it but it is an option to take that alternate in the event that um we wanted to bring the overall construction budget lower the second alternate was something that um we would be revisiting in which was the suggestion for an occupied roof outside the art room um if I just click back it would be the area with the the railing right under management um and that would be uh $228,000 783 to add that have speed up um add that back the project um so I wanted to just take a look at where we were um sustainable um schematic design alternates back when we were doing the value management prior to the bid so what you can see here in sort of dark blue are the accepted alternates that we made at that point and what you can see um in the bear with us as we address our power issue we're going to be just barely Too Short all right um and then in the dark blue are the ones that the committee decided to accept so just uh to revisit those eight alternates um the ones that we accepted was uh we wanted to try and keep the tile in the corridors but we didn't want to raise the budget in order to do so we wanted to use just stone dust at the um overflow parking to save $200,000 we wanted to remove irrigation from the playing fields and we wanted to raise the grade at the playing field to lose some more loan to keep the cost down after looking at where we ended up with the drawings um we obviously the first two that are um underlined there are the ones we have for you to consider they were estimated in this cycle so at the time we were comfortable with the 120 Wells but it does appear from the initial information we've seen at the Hopkin school we may have opportunity to lower that again that adds up to the the half million that I just described we had looked at two different options other than just keeping the uh current base bid scheme which is um just a roof not an occupied roof and that was to do a green roof or an occupied room both of which were rejected at the time but Perkins did add in an alternate to to look at the option of restoring that occupied roof if the committee wished to do so they also um were able to fit within the project the uh ceramic tile in the corridors so we did not put FR FRP in the corridors and we were able to bring it in under budget um Ashley at TR Traverse um felt that she wanted to try and fit the plastic lattice work for the um the green um parking area so that you could grow grass instead of just stone dust there um so she did include that in the design development um but we had said to go with stone dust so that was a difference of about 144,000 at the SD budget stage um with the space that we have at this oh I'm sorry I'm reading the wrong that was the 233 at the SD budget stage with the space that we have we could upgrade to the more robust system of concrete lattice work and plant grass in that and the concern that the committee expressed at the time that we made that decision was that um the the plastic at sometimes can be pulled up by plows and it's usually held in by Stakes so that first time that the plow hits it is the last time it looks nice without substantial effort to sort of flatten it back out um which was was a contributing factor in the decision that the committee made to not pursue that at the time but if the committee wanted to revisit that discussion I don't know if I put the price here or not um we could dig up what that is and it does appear um I saw the number yesterday just don't remember what it is it does appear that we have budget room to pursue the the lattice work and grow grass there rather than have a large stone dust lot um if the committee was interested in that and the last one was um the committee discussed the possibility of raising the grade at the field it created some issues where you'd have a few more steps up to that level but we are getting rid of a lot of loan with the almost three- foot depth of loan throughout the site so it does provide a considerable credit um at that 243,000 at this time in the design development throwings that you're looking at that is not included in the base bit of the documents so if the committee wish to repuru that option that's still on the table just like any of the other options that I highlighted here remain on the table for the committee to consider we can revisit that in a second but overall you're uh $ 1.4 million under budget for the construction number so at this time um we're seeing no change in the um technology or the FFN numbers um of the contingency that we've used we've only really tapped um half a percent of it for various change orders that the Committees voted on over the course of um the project through design development and so we still have 99 basically $9.9 million almost $10 million contingency remaining in the project and we're 1.5 under budget so um with that information I would open it up to the committee to consider whether they would want to revisit any of those be discussions at this time right I have all the be sheets from before queued up if we want to look at a specific issue I I would assume regarding alternate number one the wells that once they drill the first real well behind the know how many Wells we're going to need at that point correct so why would we take a chance cut it down um I don't see any point so where it becomes challenging is the um we would have to pursue it as a unit price which is an awkward unit price to develop because there's a lot of logistics involved in the actual drilling of the well um while Hopkins is pursuing a CM at risk he made that decision on that project because it's an occupied building we're pursuing a GC bid so your ability um to work with the contractor and the driller is less that in sort of the open book CM process there's also a lot of complications in terms of layers that go on in that playground area you have a mix of the new playground surfacing the roadways the drainage and the wells that are all pushed tightly together so you do have a lot of complexity going on back there and fewer Wells would reduce that complexity I just think this juncture obviously we have Mone do and the fact that at some point scary up is to say this school require an addition we're probably going to need an extra well space at some point um it's already in the budget um why not just leave it worst case scenarios work with the contractor and say hey you got to do 10 W less we take care of it no I won't okay do the 10 WS we use it and you do have two more budget Cycles yeah I'm so I don't see any point right now in taking that off the table but i' like the idea I like the work you did don't get me wrong and it probably is going to be the same thing as Hopkins hopefully and then uh that's why why cleer it now just that's all I'm say so I I'm a little confused on um you say it'll be difficult to remove it or difficult to get a bid because we're not sure exactly difficult to get to get a appropriate credit for this oh it would be almost impossible yeah your general contractor is going to bid this as a lump sum bid whereas a CM you're purchasing a service where they're bidding it out component by component so at Hopkins we could adjust the number of Wells because the CM is acting as a service of the owner to procure a driller to just do that scope of work the um GC is giving you a price to at the end of the day give you a building and so the negotiation of that credit is difficult to get the same value that it would be from a bidding situation it's going to work the other way if we needed 10 more wealth simar go just the other way side in the in the G in the GC format they don't have to share anything with us so we're gonna say no it's $32,000 and he's going to say oh $58,000 and then he's going to and these so there's no no way we know what they're actually really paying for it unless we do a unit price which becomes complicated because the unit price is tied into a whole bunch of different things this um I agree with Mike I think you should leave them in because your your tendency is to grow your building will probably grow and I think is way better 10 extra Wells here be cheaper just trying to drill into everywhere get so we get our at 60 or 90 we need to know that it's there get going running the other Wells at less capacity correct correct so the the they're each divided into circuits but you're consistently flowing all the water through all the wells so the more Wells you have a more manageable temperature fluctuation the water better thank question yes uh Chris my question is uh the $527,000 what percentage is that of the total cost of the geothermal work um it is we have 12 120 Wells and we're dropping 10 so it's it's like 8% um with so when you run it from a pure numbers standpoint if you recall jig group we had a little table that we circulated with you where we described um the contingencies that we had put into the wells and various um ratings that we had gotten so um GZA at the time had given us their rough estimations of the amount of feed it would take to do um a certain number of wells for local sit sites and sort of their Mass average for all sites that they've done in Massachusetts and then there was the more conservative number that cmta gave us what we found is that the Hopkins well from a performance standpoint standpoint was very close to the Massachusetts average and we found that the depth of granite um Bedrock or what we believe to be Granite Bedrock from the borings was ex was very similar I think it was um anywhere from 3 to 8 feet deep at Hopkins and it was somewhere in the neighborhood of like 8 to 12 feet at the Elmwood site but whereas the Hopkins site was four to seven feet down for groundwater and some cases we found groundwater at about seven inches um on the Elwood site and so taking that mass average we had um calculated at the time in all of our back and for that it was equivalent to about 108 Wells and that was including a 30% contingency in that calculation so that 30% to a certain degree allows um cmta the engineer to keep a narrower um water temperature fluctuation which avoids gly call and other things but even with that extra 30% added in there we were still 10 WS too many okay but it's also a decision we can make because it's just sort of like cutting the piping or like trimming a circuit we can make that much later in the process and still get yeah I think I think my suggestion is I agree that we should keep it um and not remove the 520,000 because even with the 110 Wells that we do need given that we are dealing with the ground and natural soils there's always that that uncertainty especially given that we have not drilled at this site um just just accounting for any surprises it's not a big number and and you know there's there's it's good to leave that buffer okay um the next one was the occupied roof I know Tim you weren't a huge fan of when we discussed it back in not either I don't even know where that came from why we keep looking yeah there's we looked at that at another school and you know I mean other than like this notion that things will seed themselves and some plants will overtake other plants like those kinds of things that that they had mentioned that kids were learning in that other place I don't know that we saw anything else um there was a few in this particular location you're right off the art room so they'd have the chance to take the kids outside on the what would be the roof of the second floor um so from the third floor they could open the art room door and they'd have an outdoor space there um the part Perkins added it as an alternate I i' looked to if I were gonna do if I were gonna do one of these two things I would do the Green Room if I were going to choose one of the two so they they claim they made it's free the other piece if you make it a green roof it limits your ability to throw solar panels in there as well yeah the thing with this location is it's right you're looking out on it so it's one of these locations where you're in a space and you're looking out at this basically white PVC roof which you probably won't put panels on that spot this low area that's why we sometimes go with a green roof because it's a little bit nicer to look at it deadens that kind of bright bounce of that sunlight into those but so the 228 is flat roof with the ability to walk out there is less I saw like things on my roofs I'm not gonna make any say anything about the door that goes out to that either tell you right now so when we discussed this in schematic design we discussed the uh there we go yeah that's that's but I have the wrong umand GNA cut it Zoom don't have nearly the view that the rest of us do idea was that it was about 100,000 to do a green roof and at the time it was 244 to do an occupied roof with pavers and um the ability to go out there so if it just remained a white roof or you could really give a number of colors you can choose you can go gray if you're worried will if you're going for the lead point you gotta it's going to like so or or The Green Room works that we it isn't in there now it's just isn't in Project either one of them it's just I think just a white Ro frame it's hard to hear whoever is speaking could you just pull that a little closer to yourself well I'll repeat I'll repeat what Tiffany said she wanted to know if the white roof was going to create a radiant heat within the adjacent classroom it usually just becomes a light problem because the triple pane windows job of filtering um whether the lights coming up or the lights coming down there they're not like polarized so um it rarely creates that issue of a glare I mean it does and it can focus it like you hear all sorts of crazy stories like new fangled buildings creating a hot spot that like catch a car on fire um every once in a while so there is the possibility oh you've never heard that story I got a story for you later um but there certainly get weird lighting effects because you're more likely to concentrate lighting than and besides we have all those eclipse glasses left over there's a typically there's a tint on the Windows anyway that will stop on GL there is a tint on window yes I think it's if you were trying to look out at you're looking out at it it's yeah yeah doing your be bright don't look out the window so it's I'm hearing a consensus to move away from this one had the same discussion on Marathon by the way five I put solar we put solar panels on that roof bike if you're looking out the window of that art room so you could walk out onto that roof what would you be looking down at lot well that seals the deal for me the trees off in the distance because you're the third store yeah one ways it would be better if that was in the back of the building where you exactly I think that might be inspiration to our young it's not um so the next one was the um uh I think everybody's consensus at SD was to fit the tile in and Perkins was able through efficient decisions to be able to do that so um I think that's a win for the project the um overflow parking the I know there was a lot of strong feelings about the stone dust back in um when we discussed this versus the platic but it does raise the question of whether we want to consider just grab that from before because I believe we discussed it so at the time um it was a $390 or it was $400,000 ad for the lattice paper so considering that we are still at the plastic grid um that that's probably an add maybe a little less because I think the area is less now than it was then um but it was still a fairly significant savings to go to the dense grain the concern raised about the plastic was that we have seen instances where as the dust or the soil gets spread and you begin to expose the plastic if you're plowing that lot then you have the potential to rip it all up if you decided Well no I want to pave that lot it does complicate the meepa submission that we're currently W working on because we're trying to stay within a certain amount of impervious area so you are limited in sort of what you can pursue here the question is whether you want to keep the plastic brid system or go back to the stone dust moving forward or go up to thec or go up to the concrete separate project I think you have to wait more than two years and this is a publicly noticed meeting that is capable of being viewed by this is this is what stone dust stone dust reason is even maintenance on concrete lattice so we use salt in town um and that'll eat right through that lattice and it kills any kind of grass that would grow in between anyway so stone dust is really the way to go it's easy to kind of fix and maintain you can fix and we can fix you got the no bra move this [Laughter] along miss one meeting I think there's one more we got a solution the last one was the restoring the additional grade there is 3et of depths of Lo that we have not laboratory tested to confirm anything about it yet so you have a lot of loan that you need to export as part of this project TR to forun getting rid a Lo at Marathon if we could use it here as opposed to shipping it went to the Hampshire up I foret you mentioned we voted against it because steps that would have to be you actually voted for it okay and it was not included in the design that's why we're bringing it up because you for it at schematic design and it the design kept the bid grade what they're currently proposing and we are preparing the planning board submissions and the concom submissions and everything else so we want to restore that decision that the ESC made now would be the time so does this 2434 and two include the ramps railings and all the other stuff that are going to be require are gonna be needed probably to do this I thought they had a way around that one we discussed it at the time but it was never developed so we don't know I think you're going to pay more getting rid of it then you will accommodating the increase over the amount of distance you have available to yeah because you're GNA you would theoretically want to raise that whole everything out yeah it's not just the field you're you're going to basically raise the road the field the all of it to try to you know a little bit like basically six inches across the whole place G feet up on the field because then you're going to create these you know other maintenance problems ramps railings and other things you're G need and there may be scenarios where you can't raise it because you need drainage planes or other things you can't use that what I can tell you is that Lo loves water and it's like a magnet for it um having walked that site on wet days many many times in the last few months saw pasture and Fields I mean Lo was got to be a foot deep what it was about though it's it is very clearly three feet deep and of that three feet about two and a half feet is water currently so um so I mean we could look at strategies to do something here I I think just raising the field grade is we need to think more about that maybe birming or something else we can look at to better control that that worries me only because you're creating this Plateau thing that's out there that's kind of it's almost like you're getting rid of a pile of dirt which I've done on other projects which looks strange pile of dirt are we getting rid of just LOM or Phil as well LOM we've got lots and lots and lots of yeah so I I think we'll probably find places for Phil there's not a market for well I Phil understand in the GC world there's never a market for loan there's a lot of loan it's I think it's going to depend on testing too and what it cost to get rid of it what you could do with it the landscape world there's not a demand for loan there is got to do the T and for example the loan that was at Marathon M time because that loan had capture nitrates all kinds of stuff pesticides all kinds of stuff in there to a certain degree you have to amend it these guys scenario is to try to you kind of spread it around I mean it is it seems like a lot a lot and it is a lot but six or eight inches on a site this big get rid of a lot we have LOM day back up is desperate for it forun to bring it and every project like this that was his idea he said hey Bill tell him about that one pick up truck at a time I showed up with his pickup I want this much he said you're not taking this much um so I I think we look at opportunities to to lose that but the one thing that we didn't take into account when this was proposed initially that I think is reasonable to bring up is if you look at the geotechnical report and the amount that soil is or that water is draining through the soil it does appear that the soil on site retains water a fairly large amount and so that could just as easily create issues with you know you have a drainage system but the water can't make it through the loone to get to the drainage system to dry out the field the [Music] well is is in the number currently now the latus system is in the number currently now so potentially that could be going down 200,000 um the grade raising the grade was to save money by not exporting loan we did not do that currently in the number that would be a saing provided it works out the way that we want so the more loan we can lose on site the less eventually it inverts because moving it around and placing it has a cost too so if you get too creative you you don't save yourself anything but um it made sense because we had a large field but the latest Geotech report reports that there's a number of um drainage challenging issues with the soil that's on site and so that has to be factored into this decision as well so in essence you haven't touched it it's actually gotten bigger yeah there was also a few other items just the the committee's aware um I made mention to it earlier but groundwater is at times at surface or seven inches below through much of the site um with the Rainy spring that we've had um W management of water will be a considerable effort moving forward as it doesn't appear on the drawings but as a result of the Geo technical plan we did add um continuous waterproofing under 75 to 100% of left um because water could be right the side that waterproofing is expensive um but we did include that in the budget because of what we found in the geotechnical report in a few areas we will likely have a structural slab and not just a slab on grade because when you have that much water it creates hydrostatic pressure that pushes it up which can create cracks from the Underside instead of from the top down um and so that's just something for the committee to be aware of but it is within the budget right now so I think from a budget standpoint we do believe that we're in a very good place um as I mentioned the from the mba's perspective there's no need to change the budget at this time we'll continue with the construction number that we have continue with the technology and the FF numbers that we have um really the biggest movements have been the the decisions that the committee has made so far um last meeting's decision to bring on IDs as part of your commissioning effort went into a a bucket within the budget so um the financially the project remains in a very healthy place um life cycle cost I this is just it's going to be part of the DD submission so I wanted to bring it back out I gave you all a copy of it this largely revisits a lot of the things we've discussed at this part of this committee about how the um ground Source electric he- pump system that we're pursuing does have a high initial cost but it's more than offset by the varying um incentives that are out there as well as the long-term operating costs um it produces a flatter curve over time because less maintenance because so much of your cost is not in fuel that you need to bring in but in the using the Earth as the the fuel source proprietary concerns so um as part of the uh Mass procurement laws you're generally typically asked to have three biders for everything that you pursue in a public bid the idea is to promote competition because that ultimately gives you the best price in the eyes of the state that is very true except that when you operate um a large system like let's say your DPW you and you have things throughout town that are all the same make and model you carry a lot less spare parts than if you had different things in every place and so arguments like that are typically made for using proprietary materials the state of Massachusetts you are permitted to use proprietary materials if the awarding authority makes a um argument that those proprietary um decisions are necessary and in the case of a public body running a project takes a vote to pursue those proprietary materials because it's in the boarding Authority's best interest in this case it most likely relates to it system hardware and to the Locking System that the school system currently uses because in the case of the it system Hardware there's compatibility issues there's established vendors that are already used in multiple campus buildings and so that consistency is a valid argument same thing with the Locking cores it makes sense for Tim to have a single vendor to do all of his locks on campus so that he doesn't have to mix and match when he goes from one building to the next allows consistent keying and all of those are valid reasons so the motion that we would look for from this committee today would be a motion to to select these items as um proprietary specifications moving forward in the project so second so who who actually drafts this document but State you guys would somebody asked I'll be honest it's literally a it it comes up in the RFI process where someone asks you and you say this committee voted to use proprietary we're not going to consider that and if somebody wants to make sure that their bid isn't considered then they'll make a huge fuss about how that's difficult then I'll send them a copy of these beating adits you only need I put it in the specs no it's it's purely the the committee on behalf of the school district is electing to use these because of functional necessity is there anything that I assume Josh on the it for the town and school or a shoke for is there anything they wanted to put on the list wanted to put on the list that didn't get on the list this is actually paired down list he has software on the list which is not really something we usually put on these yeah we we took some stuff off because he's goingon to use preferred vendors because he has State contracts and other things that he can we what we left on the list were the things that had the highest likelihood of ending up in the construction number it may be that we don't actually pursue these in the construction number but it's better to just get it out of the way so that we don't have to revisit it if something changes so I understand the compatibility of doing all of this but is there a realistic cost to isolating these things from a competitive standpoint going to cost more as soon as they know that you're going to buy their thing and that's the thing they're price goes up charge whatever want but savings saving when or fixed that's what Hardware is one that comes up a lot a lot of a lot of towns will decide to um make your Hardware proprietary because of the the spare parts thing it's you know how everything works you have fewer things you have to fix you every building you go to a different tour Hardware Tim's argument on that was every building I have now has different door hardware and so that's less of a convincing argument to make it worth paying more for your door hard to specific brands or are we saying Reserve right between now purchase if we should change our cameras not gonna do something should change something change we could just vote again or you'd have the opportunity if it if it was before bidding you would have the opportunity to just write the spec different you don't need to undo proprietary you just have to make the vote if you want to do proprietary so it doesn't preclude you from doing it a different way in the future um and it's the same thing when that RFI comes in and you're like you know what let me sell you on this thing if you look at it they make a convincing argument as long as you advertise that as part of the fitting process everyone bidding on the project knows the same thing then you can make the change in just an addendum and I think I'm correct that pacc is has a lock down on your key set right that's what I thought and X I experience with them similar thing in a Condo building I know the yeah I figured that was the gig you had going it's a tough thing it is need a vote Yes so I think mik I made a [Music] we need to vote sure yes my yes n can you hear me n did you say my yes yes I'm a yes J J yes yes still five nothing gone left but shut up um the last thing that I wanted to touch on um I we would make the recommendation that you meet again on May 14 and we make that recommendation for a few reasons one that our invoice package goes to the msba um usually around May 12th and so um I think that's probably good timing to um hold a meeting so you can proove invoices and meeting minutes but also because we're approaching the um deadline or the earliest point that we could apply for um or we could submit the uh I'm going to get it right the expanded enf that we are um submitting ex expanded eir um that we are submitting to kick off the meepo process so on March 17th we put in what's called a 45 day notice it's called a 45 day notice because most people submit after 45 day it's actually a 45 day to 90day notice so if you did want to push this you certainly have that option but V can be an extended process and sooner that we get it going the sooner that we can put that behind us that is the biggest factor in why the construction um or the design contract documents period is so long and that we would not be bidding until next April excuse me next April at this point so by submitting this we'll kick off that process State there are there's additional milestones and I'm not the right person to tell you the details of all of those um but we can certainly have Claire join us um or someone from LC come on the 14th and run you through what to expect in the the coming days with this but we have done steps up until this point such as holding our Forum um for the environmental justice Community we have been preparing the permanent submissions and background for the better part of the last month and that'll continue for the next couple of weeks and so I think on the 14th we would bring you back a draft of that um environmental impact and have the committee vote similar to what we're going to ask you vote to um authorize the chair to um for final um decision on submitting that to the state um in the same time frame we are using that same um level of effort to prepare the Conservation Commission notice inent and the planning board uh site plan approval um applications um I think it's going to lag a little bit behind but the process for concom approval and planning board approval on this project pales in comparison to how long we're going to be dealing with NEPA so um I'm not concerned about that from a schedule perspective one of the big factors in this is that with the town ballot occurring on May 20th the planning board decided at the meeting we were at last night that they would instead move their uh meeting up one week and I was banking on that week to be able to submit in enough time to have a productive discussion and so that doesn't seem possible to have that meeting for this project in May um and so with the planning board not um likely to be until June uh it makes sense to just make sure that we're ready with Meo with everything that we need and then follow that up with the local approval process and so I won't ask for that approval today I think it makes sense if it works for the committee to come back um with on May 14th I think that's a Tuesday and we can vote on um submitting that to meet at that time um so with that that was the last uh large item that I had we hope that you feel that we have um covered the extent of the DD report um and what we'll be submitting to the msba there is an extensive amount of paperwork associated with it that uh Dan and ourselves are continuing to work towards getting all the te's crossed and the eyes dotted um so we as part of the mba's process they do ask esc2 vote to authorize us to submit the DD report and so so we would look for the committee to vote to authorize the chair to have final discretion and submission of the DD so that if there's any information that changes between now and Friday when we're scheduled to submit it we would be able to resolve that without a future motion was like do I have to repeat it I'm sitting close enough to the speaker so you can just listen to Christ so did you make the motion the motion I did you you second it he's as accessible as I think I'll need him to be to accomplish this task pretty easy Phil yes Mike yes Nancy Nancy yes J Gro I am a yes and I believe that's had one question while you're looking to see if we wrapped up I appreciate budget update and all the alternatives to consider what should we expect for frequency of that kind of an update going forward so we um it doesn't go into um let me take a step back so every month we provide um usually Susan with what's called our vendor invoice package our vendor inv package is made up of a number of things it is all of the vendor invoices that have been entered into uh or or that we've received for payment and are recommending for payment um so as we move closer to construction we'll start to have larger and larger invoice packages um so you'll start to receive those packages and you'll be voting on them and they'll be on this job there'll be some big numbers in there when we're actually in construction there's additional compon compents to that vendor invoice package and every municipality we work with has a different process for how they receive that information some committees like to receive it in full um up until now we've been um submitting it to the district to consider and they've been Distributing the um invoice sheet for the committee to vote on um the other components of that vendor invoice package are we have a budget status update so that looks similar to the um project scope and budget agreement budget that you've seen it's basically the exact same numbers and what we do is we track the transfers in and out of those um we have a sheet that tracks the major contracts that have been entered into and any amendments to them or changes to them over time as we get into procurement of um uh FF and Technology we have a a PO tracking sheet where we'll have purchase orders for all of or whatever system the municipality uses or we track which ones have been committed to so that you have an idea of how much have you sort of committed to buy versus how many invoices you already paid and it also includes a transfer budget status report has I would pull one up if I had one handy but I don't think I do um the budget status is the original budget the transfers the revised budget with those the aggregate transfers each individual but it's all of them to where the budget stands today so one of the items we're submitting to the msba on Friday is to take the um project scope and budget agreement because we don't have the Project funding agreement because of the delay for meepa and we're going to track the changes from that document to the um where we stand right now so like I highlighted the half a percent of contingency um as an example of that so the contingency log is basically your road map and in a lot of jobs it's it's just a I agreed to this contract so I paid for it out of this and that's all it is some jobs um with multiple funding streams it can become incredibly complex I have I have a job right now with 14 different funding streams over three years it's a long document so we can certainly begin to distribute that to the entire committee if the committee wants uh what can be a massive file I was just referring to those couple of slides you had it was just a quick look and I thought pretty helpful but I understand not lot's G to change for the next several months you won't see that again that kind of thing until 60% CDs when we do another estimate when do we know the construction number again where we are and the project budget status report that Chris just described is part of the vendor in invoice packet that you all get so if you go to the end of the packet it's in there I did see that line by line yeah yeah but when we get simplified it for so yeah when we get into construction you're gonna have like 120 Pages for your schedule values for the GC it's it's going to be a lot of information and so that's that's all that we had for this evening what sure absolutely yeah absolutely Nancy yes J yes yes thank you everyone thank you thank you for