e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e hello everyone can everybody hear me y okay um we're just GNA give it another minute I know Nancy and Amanda were um G to be joining um they were waiting the waiting room um but then I think we're going to need one more yeah you're right Susan rmck says she's still spinning whoop all right I got them okay help me Susan was still celebrating yet another national championship for Yukon huh I have my t-shirt on from 2014 with men and women Championship there you go I'm wearing it I didn't know you went to Yukon yeah yes yes did you play no no not basketball I played tennis uh we we're a big Yukon household my father-in-law went there and my husband grew up in Connecticut it so they've been longtime Yukon fans I think they went to like one of the women's championships way back yeah fun so fun to watch oh yeah NOP big fan big fan I paid a lot of money to go to that school they better win okay so I just texted a couple of the people who are not here um Nancy was in the waiting room I was chatting her before yeah so unfortunately I mean I want her to join but Nancy doesn't help um that's right we we're done because you're because you're one vote between you so um yeah we need a I know I think is there select board tonight Jim said we're live now just so everyone knows okay well for those who might be watching we are uh awaiting a quorum at the moment we did have some technical difficulties getting into the meeting um so um hopefully we will get I've just texted a couple of people um and uh hopefully we'll get that additional person and we can get started joh I I had wrongly assumed that this was an iners meeting oh jeez sorry that's the reason I'm late well I mean we weren't able to get into the zoom so nobody even noticed so um so should be recording this meeting uh uh if we're on hcam if we're on hcam do we need to I mean it probably doesn't hurt from a minute's perspective it's probably helpful right you can record it once you once you call it to order or you could do it now whatever you want to do yeah um I guess what I'm wondering is we don't have a quorum so could I call it to order and rearrange the agenda maybe we start with the with the the design presentation because there isn't a vote associated with that um and then hopefully we get the additional person before we do the controls and minutes I mean minutes if we don't get to minutes tonight I don't really worry about it but the controls I know you need to vote on right Jeff yes um and I think Wonder see I'm not as well versed on the oml stuff as maybe I once was I I think we can go we just can't vote without a quorum if I'm not mistaken yeah so why don't we do that I'll call the meeting to order at 6:15 um welcome everyone to the meeting of the elementary school building committee I will quickly review the agenda um which we will then I will then ask the committee to take out of order um we we do have we'll have our public comment opportunity we will approve minutes we don't have um we don't have invoices to approve but um do we have uh and I don't think we have any updates on costs authorized under the um the sort of small cost vote we took a while back so we'll do a design materials Bo materials boards colors and themes presentation by B um will review and and potentially approve the automation controls consultant proposal um and the contract Amendment for vertex as OPM and then we'll do an update on schedule permitting and public Outreach and then look to adjourn so if there are no objections um while we hopefully get an additional um while we get an additional member if Bob if you want to go ahead with the design presentation that would be great just want to make sure I can share I'm not seeing share button okay hopefully everybody can see my screen y yep um so what I want to share with everybody is the process that we've gone through we as you all know um actually was a request of the building committee that we put together a teacher collaboration team um to explore the theming um and connect that uh to the design to education um so what you have up on the screen right now are the members we had second grade teacher um in Beth we had Molly and Ruka representing third grade and we had Jesse Jess asale in fourth grade we had music library media Specialists um of course David and Michelle joined us and Carol and and Susan and there were about four design team members and on and off several from vertex so we had about 15 of us involved in the process and um just going to walk you through what we did so this says schedule ahead this is actually looking back now um where we are as the black line that goes vertical um we held four workshops it started in mid-February um and it carried through uh with three in March um in each one of those workshops we kind of started a little bit backwards we what we did is we shared with the teachers group our initial thoughts for Elmwood but we opened it really wide to um to to think about you know the appropriateness of of of where we're going with natural themes to rethink um if we should be doing something different um we shared where this leads um through the example of Easton Elementary School the blanch a Elementary School and um that was also one of the schools that was toured so we were able to show how the theming there was very specific to that town um how it translated into educational components and fun things in the school and opportunities um so that was to kind of give some perspective to the group um and then we also discussed you know what is hopkington specific what is the wealth of of things that we can look to and explore and of course you know as expected the natural resource es and connections to Nature came up um and really were supported in the uh next two meetings we held in early March we then started to um take the themes and they evolved it originally was Meadow Force forest and Marsh um we changed it to Lake and actually River I think is where we landed uh in the end but but still connecting to Nature you know specific to the wonderful resources in hackington um you can see in kind of in the back legay um slide uh we spent some time did some interactive exercises just connecting Meadow forest and and River to uh colors to Flora to fauna um to Hopkinton specific things so it was just sort of a a notepad to gather ideas and what everyone was thinking um down on the bottom right that diagram shows kind of a Post-It a sticker board it's actually called a mirror board and what we did here is we went through each of the seven major subject matters um and we also looked at second third and fourth grade and we just started to talk about what what are some key things being taught and being learned what you know what is the curriculum path or pattern U the content that the students are are learning and this really kind of gives us great background to see what connections we can we can make um we also talked about the extent to which we would carry these themes into the school and I think what what resonated highly among the entire group was to to really keep it simple natural beautiful not over complicated and not to be too prescriptive in for example assigning every single neighborhood uh of classrooms a specific um icon or creature you know really just wanted to follow the the broader themes Meadow forest and lake and so we did that through uh the first two meetings also in those meetings we started to put together preliminary boards so you can see here meow forest and River um we started to gather some thoughts on color um applying it to the materials that we'll be using in the school some of the imagery from from local landscape and and natural resources some icons that are connected to those This was um kind of fun and then what we did is we then uh Dove a little bit deeper and looked at um of all the curriculum things that we learned how can these become architectural elements how can we use you know the floor in for example or you know patterns uh on the wall or um in the in the landscape what simple things can we do that would create opportunities so you can see these 20 things um were assembled actually there's two or three more that that came up in our very last meeting um and so these are all things that we're we we're going to explore the next uh few slides I can show you we went through each of the seven cont areas you can see I've highlighted on the right the types of things that would actually connect to the curriculum so on the far left you can see a simple landscape element that if you stand in the center you know can tell you what time it is um kind of a fun element there's um been a lot of talk about tagging the elevations this can be in the landscape with with kind of a plaque or a post Um this can also be throughout the building as you navigate stairwells different floor levels even just the ground floor plane as you all recall Rises uh four feet inside the building so these things will connect to Nature connect to learning um and this is just map I won't dwell on each one of these in great detail but you can see um in ela there are things connected to plants and animals um so this can be a fun way whether it's message stones or on the far left is um it's a rain reveal um spray that goes on concrete doesn't last forever but it can be applied period IC Al it could be a fun thing just as we open the building that um you can put down a stencil and when it rains you can reveal poetry or quotes and this is actually something that occurred in Boston um for at least a period of time I don't know if it's still where I'm going um just some fun things here um science and St is ripe with ideas um we talked about um St spaces and just outside having a two-story space that can be used for experiments like like egg drops parachutes but also using the wall space just outside the rooms for this kind of a peg wall um where gears and pulleys and other things can be um it can be kind of a toolkit of things that students can use this is an image from our Eastern Elementary School um where we actually did this this type of thing moving on social science um lots of wonderful ideas about the the naming of of you know Trails um path that connect to the outdoor landscape but also corridors within the school that lead you to some of the major spaces so we can certainly have fun with how we do that make it look like a trail signage um there's an opportunity we heard about you know having maps of Massachusetts of the United States of the world um but also hopkington is is Rich um with some wonderful resources we can imagine that this being in the landscape or possibly even being in the lobby um kind of carved into the or laser cut into the exporing that we have in the main lobby um art and music of course you know connecting with colors and uh and also nature um health and wellness uh there's a lot of things we can do here a dashboard in the lobby of the school can be kind of an interactive electronic piece that can connect to curriculum so students are learning about the skeletal system which they do um that you can connect this to the building structure um for an example as very relevant um sort of learning tool and the last few library media of course a lot of L literature will have display cases throughout the school and opportunities to have elements that are Timeless um kind of teaching moments and then uh and then just to show you how this is wrapping up with the colors and the materials these are the materials that we've talked about using um durable economical on the top left you can see wall paint colors and although that might look like a lot of colors they're not ever used all at once um the common materials have a underline score so you can see you know the the white but then some natural um kind of Browns and greens neutral colors will carry throughout the school so there'll be a little kind of connection throughout the school of that and then for each one of the themed areas there'll be a certain color and what we talked about is maybe having a different shade of that color that takes you from first second to Third floor so not introducing too many colors but using the same color to Define an entire wing and just have it gradated um there are areas where we will use um a pop of of color say at the um wet wall to the toilet rooms so we know that's a wall That's facing the corridor but it's recessed so it's a wall that can can be nicely tied have a have a pop of color but it's also um suppressed a little bit because it's not the main wall of the corridor for example it's really recessed set back so it's a a place to have fun with color um but not to create an over stimulating environment um of course natural Woods work their way through so um the meadow we chose wild flowers um as some of the inspiration so we get into the purples for the forest because we've already got you know Browns and and bases um we're going into the oranges which are representative of leaves acorns you and fungi um so these are the primary colors there and you can see the accents change and then finally um river which naturally goes into some of the blues or turquoise colors um what the you know the teachers helped us assemble this and helped guide the direction um and as we summed it all up with the group um there was real strong uh kind of passion for how it came together how the colors complement each other how the overall overarching theme is really just U you know kind of calming and natural um and that's kind of wraps up the the overview um I'd invite um Carol Susan or David um if there's anything I missed or or could be underscored um by all means and certainly we take in questions any question did you guys hear me my my mic was up oh yeah we heard you okay we would have we would have in before then I know but I wasn't looking at any of you so sorry no I'll just say that it was a really great process with the teachers and I think it fits nicely with what we've done with the naming so there's a lot I think that can be done on the inside of the building to kind of bring back some of the names that weren't chosen so things like um Headwaters or Quinn Ain those kinds of things so yeah I know Bob I said this when we talked on Thursday but uh when we last talked about this that as you mentioned like the key Direction I think from the committee was we're we're not the ones who want to make these decisions we want the the teachers the administrators to who are going to be using the building to really lean into the design here and so really appreciate you outlining the process proc because it's clear that that's exactly what happened and I think that's what's most exciting for me about this is how much ownership they were able to take of this yeah Bob thing I'll I'll mention it's uh it's very impressive everything you shared and uh as John mentioned you can tell a lot of thought went into it so obviously the only issue not issue the only concern is all right how do we put some numbers to this as we go forward and and uh it feels like we're going to be able to have a very good looking inside of the school and still be able to to maintain the fiscal responsibility that I know we've been focusing on so uh very impressive I I I'm uh I had no idea that it would be this much detail so uh thank you and your team for doing so sure and um just so the committee is aware these aren't ads these are things that we typically build into schools and as we get the cost estimates in and we reconcile um you know we will carry themes forward but they can be done very inexpensively Graphics paint and a few other things smart choices go a long way all right well excellent appreciate the update um we're going to move on to so Shaul has joined us um thank you for for jumping in I know we have you until 7 o'cl um so we want to switch to I think what is the most critical topic for tonight which is the um the proposal for the controls engineer uh Jeff is that you yep okay um so good evening I want to talk a little bit about a a potential consult that we could bring on to the project which is the interval Data Systems and so to get there we first got to kind of back up and and refocus on where we are in the overall process of evolution right and so one of the things is that you know this building is going to be more energy efficient than any other building in the town has ever done before traditionally buildings were done with uh you know simple boilers over the past decade or so they added you know more complex Control Systems uh building Information Management Systems to that then they added lighting controls you know those have only continued to grow in complexity uh over time now we're looking at a geothermal system and an all El electric building uh also with a goal of a low energy use intensity which comes with a carrot of additional funding back from ever source so at a completion of the project when you turn over the building to the occupants they really need to understand how it's operating and dial it in to get the most optimal use and Energy Efficiency out of the building it's no longer the turnover of the keys and turn the boiler system on and you know make sure you get training and you're on your way you know there's a lot of work that happens in that first year of the project in terms of post occupancy uh fine-tuning of the systems and that comes from a few different levels you know first and foremost there's your design team validating that the construction team implemented the building appropriately you know that's already built into the system then the msba layers in their commissioning agent uh where they come in they do a representative tests of the system not the entirety of the system but they take a sampling of 25 to 50% of different components and do commissioning uh on those elements and so that's built into the overall project already two other layers of things that we're going to talk about tonight and moving forward are where we measure the building from there on out so one would be to fine-tune the systems and tracking the data and that's one of the things we're here to talk about today and another one I think we that Chris might have talked about with you at a recent meeting was the codes will change next year and so in order to get the mba's higher level of sustainability reimbursement and to meet the future building code changes we're going to have to follow through a passive house uh requirement and that's certification so there's another consultant set aside to deal with that which we're going to authorize at a future meeting but for tonight's focus is to talk about the data so one of the Consultants that we've been working with on a few recent projects is IDs which is interval Data Systems and what they do is they do work upfront with the design team to first meet with your facility director understand the goals of the overall project and then put in data points into the specification so that when the project gets built we're monitoring the right levels of systems and the right points so that after this group is all long gone and it's just the schools occupying the building they have the ability to monitor track and fine-tune the system and so that's what IDs does I'm going to share a couple of slides and kind of talk about what they do and then talk about the proposal and their effort and post occupancy so I asked IDs to come up with a couple of examples um that they can uh talk about for uh tonight and so a couple of recent examples here up on the screen here uh they're monitoring the usage of a building right over a daily weekly and monthly process and what they were finding on this particular example is that the building was operating over the weekend in a cycle that it shouldn't build and so what that ultimately does is we're using a lot more energy over the weekends when it's an un occupied mode that would normally not be the case in this example instead of a 275 kilow was coming in at 500 KW which is causing your utility Bild to go up um this is a recent example um that I asked them to pull another one here has to do with you know how you monitor systems again you know they're routinely hourly uh accessing the data this works on new buildings best right they can work in some of the more recent modern buildings but you know controls of this level don't go back to the buildings of the 80s and 90s you know so these are this is optimization of buildings that are being built in today's day and moving forward and so in this particular example um you know they were able to find that the building was operating again in a weekend uh in a different life cycle and so the the cost that the town was expending was an additional $2,000 per weekend and this was found to be running over four weekends before they went and looked back at the data and was able to troubleshoot the issue and then address the controls that were not operating fully now the addressing is they're not the one physic be doing it they're finding the issue then notifying the contractor involved and having them replace it the best time to do this is the first year of warranty and so the majority of the proposal that we're asking tonight to present to the committee is that oneyear warranty it's about 15 months and so really we're trending the data early on as soon as the building gets turned over and finding the issues or early on when you still have the ability to put that back on the contractor that did the work and get them to uh resolve it at no cost versus having your own supplier come in and adjust the programming uh post occupancy uh one year beyond that another example here had to do with the O2 sensors uh in the building and uh short cycling of systems causing another system to run in occupied mode and it was uh identified unnecessary equipment was oscillating during unoccupied mode causing a higher rate of all these units to run and the higher utilization of power now with the Mass Save program they ow you to determine when you're ready to bring them in and that's when they start to monitor a Year's worth of data and so we want to go through a process where we fine-tune the system before we start the count with the uh eversource so that we make sure we get that extra dollar and a quarter and Center Point at the end of that yearlong of data so IDs would come on first after occupancy tracking the data to find tune it and when the school system is ready then they would notify ever so us we're ready to track it this model data we're collecting is the data that then goes to every source so we're monitoring it real time and adjusting as necessary in order to uh make sure that we're able to receive those rebates couple other examples we just put into the overall um in your meeting packet here really understanding the root cause of the spaces where the temperature controls are issue could be duck sensor that need to be relocated it could be O2 sensors that need to be put in different locations so in some cases it could be actual change order work to fine-tune a system you know the design team did their best effort they specified where sensors are going but because of the way the building operates as a living breathing thing perhaps a sensor in a different location can turn the systems on or off at a more appropriate interval and so there may be some miscellaneous movement of sensors uh post occupancy to really fine-tune the the building itself so even though the building runs and operates well this is really trying to get that operating cost of the building uh down so those are just a couple examples that I wanted to kind of share with the overall committee uh I won't go through the entirety of uh the fine detail of ids's proposal but interval Data Systems is the consultant here um they included their U proposal in your packet the fee breakdown was on page five but and it breaks down to a few things so lowl fee in the design process so this 25,000 is where they get involved early on they help review and make recommendations working with with the facilities department and the MEP design Engineers to get the right information on the specifications there's a light level of involvement with construction in terms of submittal reviews and rfis associated with those control points and support as we're getting to the commissioning phase of the project at the end of construction but their real lift uh happens in that post occupancy 15 months when they're really trending the data um they do have adders uh here that we're not recommending at this point which is to help with Mass Save incentive rebates and helping them pull all that information together for Mass Save and then extended monitoring on beyond that which roughly is about $24,000 a year but U reduces over time with a a longer extended period that's something the school system can choose to to exercise after you've gone through that first year and see if there's real value and if there's a continued value and keeping them on board IDs has worked on two projects that vertex is on currently um one of them is in construction about 50% of the way uh at point so they've only done the first two stages of this proposal on that particular job the other one is the town of Westwood um they just opened their building on um February vacation so they're in that one month period where they've just completed their first month of data and they're having a meeting this week uh to meet with all the uh warranty Consultants to give that feedback back and so we'll have more information moving forward on this project as to how that works in the 15mon stage but there are starting to see uh benefits already in that particular project that was uh just opened five weeks ago so uh you know vertex believes this is a good investment of time um you know one other thing that I will note uh here and do want to discuss um you know one of the things msba is is doing and did back on the marathon school was post occupancy surveys of the towns uh Marathon was a good project that had a nice clean turnover in a good training program that vertex and the town participated in the msba came back back a few years later inquiring about how that's going and this is a problem that they're finding with many other towns in terms of the complexity that after all the Consultants go away the first year it's a challenge for these towns to actually have the right staff in place and the right consultants in place and the right knowledge base on their facility staff so they're having one of their upcoming forums in the month of May talking specifically about post occupancy and you know this type of consultant is one of the things that's on the table of really trying to help these communities get involved and they've asked myself and and Tim persons to come back and do an update on Marathon Lessons Learned then how we're building on that today on the Elmwood project and how we're looking to be prepared for tomorrow when the town opens up this all El electric geothermal system that's got to meet these low euis in passive house and so it's really a step in an interim step in the process and so we believe this is the right step in that process and so you know vertex recommends moving forward with IDs we've met with uh met with Susan and Tim uh a few times IDs came in and had a presentation to them and I'll let uh Susan talk tonight I don't think Tim's here about um how they viewed those Services yeah um Tim and I did talk about this and the piece that's interesting is this type of control where you can see the trend data um the controls that we have have in the other buildings you don't get that data so we would need to enhance our controls in order to see that type of data um but the closest thing we can compare it to is we have systems like that on our walk-in fridge and and freezers and so we do see the trend data of you know the compressor going up and down and we're able to respond to it right away that's the type of um thing that they'll do for us in that first monitoring period and really kind of flush out all the um kinks in the system and help us get the schedules right um you know like Jeff said something as simple as a CO2 may be causing a damper to open and close too fast you know so it does have a lot of value um especially for a building this size and then before we open it up for questions Jeff um so this is uh this goes this is not in the original budget but fits in with one of the contingencies that's correct so we carried there's a $300,000 line item for other administrative costs that was meant to deal with enhanced commissioning in a general sense which will pick up that future consultant for the uh passive house which was around I think 80 or 990,000 for that uh phase of work and then this proposal as well would fit within that and so that was what that bucket was set aside for so these are in line you know with the amount of money that we earmarked for the the future sustainability challenges and goals that we'll have to rise up to meet okay questions bill I saw you come off mute um sure thanks Jeff for all that information couple questions once the those two items you just described are uh used out of that 300 ,000 budget is there anything else coming down the line that also would need to tap into that money or are these the two the two big ones that you just mentioned these are the two larger ones um and I will note that that's a line item while outside of the the uh the contingency you have $3 million in contingency which is really the general fund of you know unknowns right this was a known element and so um anything that would come up down the road would come out of that other General bucket of contingency for issues that arise you know there may be some things that come up with meepa you know that's the one big risk on this project that because you're at the mercy of state agencies you know you're submitting a package to all the state agencies they all have the ability to comment on meepa we don't know what will come out of that but um from a known standpoint this is the known uh risks that we're aware of and that do millions of dollars in contingency you're meant to pick up those other unknown risks okay my other question what what what were Tim's thoughts and and Susan shared that so my last question is um are there any competitors in this space and um did we take a look at them so it's a good question there it's a newer space and so there people are popping up and doing different levels of that um so there are other uh entities out there this is the one that we're we're familiar with and has worked on a few projects that we've worked on with there's not a holistic uh bench of them out there um but it's a newer Trend so no we did not solicit multiple proposals for this uh project okay thanks your comfort level seems enough and and uh and Tim's on board so I appreciate the details thanks any other questions I have a couple of questions sure so Jeff you you said Vex recommends uh this service for onee post occupancy is that right that's Cor first year now without this service how is the how does the troubleshooting happen in that first year what occupancy um so the from a variety of sources and not as deep of a dive this the simplest way of saying that so the the commissioning agent will tell us whether the system is functioning properly or not so if there if things are if rooms are overheating or things are not working from a functional standpoint that higher level of information will be caught by the commissioning agents before you get to that point the design team will make sure we we're substantially complete so there that first pass of the design engineer signing off then you get to the functional testing of the commissioning agents and then after that it's up to the school at that point to kind of monitor the the system you know the The Design Consultants contracts don't continue on post subst itial completion post punch list resolution the msp's commissioning comes back 10 months later but that's a survey to the school how are things running what's working well what's not working well are there things that we should report back on your behalf it's not them getting into this level of detail and really fine-tuning your system so the short answer is it's a it's a gap in scope in the sense of it's relying that that your town and every other town in the state has the sophistication of facility staff that can really do this level of monitoring and that's not something that has existed in other towns they're starting to hire people that can do that many other towns are starting to hire facility staff that understand it at a higher level and can spend some time on it and certain towns are further ahead than others but many towns don't have anywhere near the ability to do that so they would have to Outsource that to some vendor to monitor those things if I understand this correctly the benefit of this service would be that you are more likely to pick up issues um within that first year that sometimes you know if you didn't have them you might pick up later um and the other the other is there's maybe a value ad where it's not just issues that you pick up but even optimizations or or value ads right right that's our understanding as well that it's that's really where the benefit of this approach is that it's really fine-tuning the system when you have access to leverage it on those that did the installation and and also looking for you know short cycling issues or or running in unoccupied mode I mean one of the things you know that Tim will drive himself nuts with in the beginning is there's tons of sensors on this building and many of them can conflict with each other you know the placement of sensors the confliction of sensors giving different information that in itself takes time you know earlier buildings even as recent as you know Marathon it was a boiler and you it calls for the demand of heat to go on and many rooms are banked in one continuous run there's a lot more subdividing in the building with these systems and so that requires a higher level of fine-tuning than even a building that was built 10 years ago okay thank you if I had a quick question um thanks for the elaborate information and it uh certainly find it intriguing and uh great to see that there are optimization opportunities with data collection and then continuous monitoring uh if you can refresh you may have gone over this so I see two components of the data and the um service one is the sensors um installing them and setting those up and the system setup and second is the Consulting I I didn't um actually go through the details of the numbers but can you refresh the key components and the in all cases um IDs is a is a consulting firm right so at the end of the day the designer will do all these specifications what iids provides in the design phase is a peer review of the uh of this of the design specifications drawings and we'll do a detailed review at each major Milestone they'll also sit with Tim understand how he operates the other buildings in the your District to understand the you know the issues that occur in those buildings and what he wants to avoid in this building make sure we're getting the right level of control specified within the system that'll be kind of support and eyes and ears for the school system and then in the construction phase they'll keep an eye over the shoulder of the design team to make sure the rfis and the uh submittal don't undo you know what the specifications Were Meant to do related to those controls types items and then they'll start to keep an eye on the commissioning agent at the end of construction again to make sure that they're keeping in line with the architecture that was really intended on this project from a control standpoint controls architecture and then they really go to work you know as soon as the building is ready to be uh tracked and monitored and that's where they then track data Churn it through and get back information to the consultants and contractors thank you that's very helpful so uh there is no cost anticipated or any more cost anticipated for sensors or any other equipments those are already accounted for is that right they can be I mean ultimately we're at the a beginning of design and so there's a design contingency so we'll have to certainly manage the overall number we set a number at town meeting we've got to live within that number so we we can't go willy-nilly just adding controls everywhere because you know controls draw power too right so we want to make sure it's the right balance and you know the project team is responsible for managing the number and so we'll make sure we fit within the number but there will be the controls are more conceptual at the schematic design level so they're not drawn yet and so we've got uh a dollar per square foot allowance for all the controls on the project that may go up but as we start to whittle down other elements of the project you know the design contingency and escalation also start to fall off and so it should all be balanced in the end thank you that makes sense but I think it's fascinating and the value is certainly there thanks I like to ask Su Susan I think the school committee had commissioned some point-to-point testing of our existing buildings is this this it all the same conceptually the same kind of service as what we did in on our sort of Legacy systems in the past um so light so this is what we did for the high school obviously uh retr commissioning has not happened since we opened the high school building so they've never gone back and said okay so if I say damper One open and close does damper One open en close so we went through that process with the high school and as a result of course we found all this equipment that was not functioning properly so that was really a test to see what was responding to the controls the building management system um the data is you have a compressor and again I'll go back to the refrigeration you have a compressor that's running and you know that it should run between this temperature and this temperature and it should cycle but if you see it short cycling meaning it it just keeps turning on that's the data that's the trend data that this gets at which we don't again we don't have the controls other than at the high school to even get Trend data other than the Walkins so it's a it's a little bit different um and again this will be done as part of the design to make sure things are are designed properly but then with the commissioning which is your initial turn on of a building you know are your schedules right is it functioning the way it it was supposed to be designed what we did was way down the road is the equipment even responding to the building management system that sense that's helpful yeah that's helpful I guess I'm curious where this is a relatively new field um this type of of building um monitoring and we have limited experience with this vendor and there aren't many vendors in the field so all those things being said is there an opportunity to um connect some of the fees associated with this vendor and this contract with outcomes there oftentimes when there's a contractor who is you know pitching a service in a field that's a bit unproven the outcomes that they can commit to some base level of outcomes efficiency levels or optimization or um you know whatever can be and not first in this particular field but can be pinned have the fees tied to that so they have to produce in order they have to prove themselves in this unproven field to earn 100% of the fees if you know what I mean is that kind of negotiating done in this space at all I don't know if that's done but the um it's not necessarily unproven the thing is that there's a gap and there's a gap where mechanical engineers design a sequence of operations and then they just they're done at the end of the job and they leave and this person this entity comes in and actually understands that reviews it becomes really familiar with it and they're able to help you troubleshoot and run your building the way it's supposed to be running so I think that's really the it's like it's almost like there was a missing piece here as things have gotten more and more sophisticated mechanical engineers and the other people who designed those systems don't necessarily have it in their fees or time to chase this around with the owner to figure out why the vestibule isn't working the way they want or why the main office isn't and that's what this guy that's what this company does is they actually really dig in to this so I'm not sure that there would be a way to kind of make them performance-based cost it's hard because you're relying on you know how good did everybody else do in the in the equation right you're so you're you'd be tying their proposal to hoping you know or they'd be hoping that somebody screwed up so that they could then provide the value like aha yeah your contractor was terrible and here's all the value that I brought to you and so it's it's really hard to do that here you know we you know we'll have filed sub bidding you know there were a lot of tried andrue contractors but there there'll always be challenges there will be there will be value they give but it's hard to I think make it measurable um you know because they're moving you know the utility costs are moving the equipment is changing you know one of the challenges with controls is that you know with the systems that's built-in controls with individual units but then as a building Tim will have an overall vendor that does the controls of the building and one of the things that becomes an issue of commissioning and at the start of this is are they are they conflicting with each other you know did they work in harmony or are there defaults there or do we need to remove one of the other because one's overriding the other and so there's there's lots of those things that that get fixed quickly before it becomes a cost which makes it challenging for them to Anchor into the value ad they bring back I do wna I do want to mention that I didn't bring this proposal initially at the highest level that it was at we've been working them down they first pitched us back uh in January and the proposal 157,000 when I first talked to Tim and Susan about it and so you know I told them that was not going to work for us on this project that we've got to sharpen your pencil take a harder look at it what can we do to get that number down and so ultimately I got the 157 down to you know 126 and so we got a $30,000 reduction I do have copies of the original proposal that I can throw up there just so you know but um yeah it's a lot of money right and so you know we wanted to challenge them to make sure they weren't just using a generic um dollar per square foot of the building which is their initial pricing scheme is how they start to look at these but then I I gave them the drawings of schematic design I said this is our system like really take a look at it if you're interested in the project and let's get down to what it'll take for you to manage this job and so that's kind of where we landed and I was able to bring it from the the 157 down to 126 okay thank you all right if there are no other questions um so Jeff we need a vote to approve the proposal so if you want to take a vote we can do it with the contract Amendment so vertex will carry them under ourselves um okay a procurement process and so you've also taken two recent votes for the site work um from a proposal standpoint for de to First do the roadway onto the site and then second to do a bunch of test bits in the month of uh March so I've rolled that all into one contract amendment to kind of clean up all those uh individual votes so I have the amendment that was included in your packet which has the 2 uh75 and the reimbursement for that DNA work for the site improvements in the test pit work and then the IDS controls package with the markup uh all that totals 158 675 which is what's in the um your proposal for review and authorization okay so if that's the case I would seek a motion to to approve the vertex OPM contract amendment in the amount of $158,600 yes and I am a yes so it is unanimous 5 to zero um and so that is approved um and all you have is the minutes I don't yeah so I was gonna say so Shu I know you have to drop off thank you for jumping on why don't you go Jeff let's just kick the minutes to the next meeting okay thank you good seeing you on all right thank sh um okay and then uh so the last thing was just update on uh permitting process uh Etc y so um we're in the pipeline for getting ready to submit to the meepa and then at the same time we're also working with um planning board and concom from an agent standpoint as well as DPW and the fire department so all those meetings with the individual uh agents for the town or representatives of those groups have been occurring over the last three months since January until now with Dan's team and all his con consults I have another one tomorrow I had one yesterday so we're we're really trying to churn through all that information to make sure that um the building itself and the improvements on Hayden row are all flushed through with those groups and so uh we're GNA have more information to talk about Hayden row at your next meeting um because we were able to get that meeting yesterday and turn through some of that information and so we're still coming back uh to DPW and fire department with some clarifications on a few items the goal is to take the package that goes to the msba and have that be the package that's ready to go to all these boards and so as far as the schedule goes the drawings came out a week and a half ago uh that's being reviewed by uh vertex's Team internally we're having uh reviewing it for architectural and um civil and structure and things like that and we're going to give comments back to Dan's team your msba commissioning agent is also reviewing it from an msba standpoint the estimators are pricing that and so all that work will come to ahead next week um where we do an estimate reconciliation and have an updated budget to present to the building committee on the 23rd and so if there's value engineering necessary then we'll come with a list of ideas if there's not then then we'll have a report out on where we are with the overall cost of the project um that's scheduled for that meeting at that meeting on the 23rd we're going to talk about the Hayden Road design of the improvements there and then we're going to look for your authorized vote to submit the the package to the msba uh later that week and so the package that goes into the msba is the drawings and specs we already have the estimate will do an update to the project schedule and budget it's much lighter than the previous submissions you guys have reviewed that are much thicker documents this is now really shifting more towards the plans and specs but we've got to give updates to those other items that I just mentioned one of the other items that we're looking uh for the design team to provide and Dan I think has A draft copy of it is the energy model right really looking to validate that we are in fact going to be below 25 eui and that we are able to still get those rebates um so that report up will also come at the 23rd so there's a lot of work that the Consultants are doing uh over the month of April to get ready for that submission the last week of April and that's going to go to the msba on Monday the 29th uh at the same time we'll be submitting to meepa and I think we're going to do that the the two days before that on the 26th by the end of that week because the hard deadline with NEPA is by May 15 so we want to make sure we're not up against that we take those same drawings it already ready now get that into meepa get the submission into the msba in the 29th and then follow up with planning board and concom so in that week uh week week and a half time frame you're gonna have four different submissions coming out of the Design Group to really be off and running with those three separate permitting process as well as the mba's peer review uh that they'll do msba takes three weeks to review and comment we'll bring those comments back to you they'll kick the tires on the overall project the project project team will then review and respond to those comments over a two-e period And by the beginning of June you know we'll be officially done with design development entirely and onto the construction documents phase of the project Dan anything else I missed from a pering process standpoint no I think you've got pretty much all of it covered is a 23rd will be a packed meeting yes okay and that one where different location we're at the the high school library because hcam was busy because we're talking on a lot of those complex topics you know I figured that was best to to still be in person even though hcam wasn't available so we've penciled that in for the uh the library over there and so there'll still be I think a a zoom option to record but we'd be uh live in that room at least okay um the only other update I had I just wanted to ruce somebody from my team um Chris Kenny is joining us here as a as a face you're going to see Chris Kenny is coming on board as a senior project manager uh supporting Chris Everly and I on the team and so um you'll start to see more and more Chris uh over the course of the project so just want to introduce the name to the face welcome Chris and at least we don't have to learn another first name yeah I just gotta keep him straight yeah I gotta start using last names first names uh but that's all I had and I think that's all Bob and Dan had from a from a presentation update standpoint okay I I do need to ask what you named the school yeah charleswood what is it charleswood Char start of the Charles River uh combined with the wood as it kind of like Elmwood but also the woods uh in that area one word perfect thank you all right well if there is nothing else um seek a motion to adjourn don't moved is there a second second okay motion by Nancy second by Bill roll call vote J grp yes Bill yes Nancy yes and I am a yes so we are adjourned at 707 thank you everyone thank you hcam and uh have a good night thank you great thanks thank you for