##VIDEO ID:WlVj8z39uSE## beautiful so the other thing folks is our job is to determine whether they qualify for a variance or not does this based on the laws of Massachusetts and what the findings are it's not what the project is and I know that's we're still going to open up for conversation about you know one of the things is for the public good so we're going to talk about that that's I think that's going to be an important point but our our job is not to vote on whether it's a gas station or an ice cream shop or whatever it's whether the lot itself qualifies for a variance so that's what our job is not to determine what it used because it can once that's if it is determined to be qualifi for variance it doesn't have to be a gas station as John was saying we just have to determine this board job is to determine whether it qualifies for a variance or not and then but we're very interested in the public comment obviously this is a topic that has raised a great deal of interest and we will listen to everybody but I do ask just don't say exact like town meeting we're we're doing a dead stop at 10 o'clock and if we need to continue we'll continue but I don't think it serves anybody well if it's just the same voice over and over again if you're going up to speak we'll give you the two minutes but I ask you to present something that hasn't been presented yet thank you okay with that now that uh we're on H cam I'd like to open this uh meeting of the uh board of appeals this being uh October 9th and it's just uh just after 7 PM my name is John Cino and um let me U confirm that everybody is here on the board okay we've got Arnold Sean John one two three four okay we have five members okay um we are not on video conference everybody the be meeting materials have been uh have been just distributed on the on our website um we just we're going to turn to the first meeting on the first item of the agenda before we do so let me do uh cover some ground rules for Effective and clear conduct I'll introduce each speaker in the agenda after they conclude their remarks I'll invite B board members to prevent any comments questions or motions please hold until your name is called please remember to uh uh oh gosh we're not going to no we don't have any phones on here um this this meeting will have public comment I'll ask first ask for for people that want to speak for names and addresses so we can have something in order at an orderly fashion and then I will call up each person by name each person will be allowed two minutes for any comments so that being said the town of Hopton board of appeals will hold a public hearing on Wednesday October 9th 20124 at 7M to hear all persons interested in the uniform application for a special permit petition for variant filed by Route 85 realy Corporation a expert Road mend and mass the petitioners requesting a variants to allow a country storm Filling Station to be located in agriculture zoning District at 290 West mainstream hington Massachusetts the property is owned by alen Okana truste Okana family living trust 52 School Street Hopton mass and is shown on assesses map r28 block 50 Lot 1 the hearing will be held at the Hopkins Senior Center 20 mayew Street Hopton Massachusetts for additional information please email the zba Hopkin ma.gov call the Department of land use of planning and pering at 8497 9745 or check the online meeting calendar and agenda for this meeting at opm.gov the Hopkins Sena Center is handicapped accessible This legal notice is also posted in the Massachusetts newspapers published association mmpa website at massu notices dorg John Cino chair and clerk regarding 25009 so um mood 85 would you uh please uh begin your presentation thank you very much uh my name is Neil Bingham I represent the applicant Route 85 uh as you mentioned we're here today on the applicant's application for use variants uh concerning property at 290 West Main Street by the request for a variance the applicants are seeking approval from the board to allow a Farm Stand country store use uh with a filling station in on property that is currently zoned agricultural our team had a couple of things in mind when they when they were thinking about developing this project it's it's really we wanted to come up with something that really gave a rural look and feel to to a project and uh you know after having uh discussions with uh the property owners the O coners uh you know we were reminded of places like Amato Farms where you used to be able to walk up to a Farm Stand purchase fresh fruits and vegetables and while those are still available because I've been to one in the last two weeks they are fewer and further between than they ever used to be and and and they're simply not lasting so the we thought that that would be a really good fit for what we have in mind here now we're here on on a request for a variance and I understand and my client understands that this is a discretionary permit that we're asking for and we fully comprehend that the discretion is in your hands so as we think about that we have to think about what we're going to provide to you and what we're trying to provide is a project quite frankly that people in the town of hopkington can be proud of and we think that we have done that but it's also our job to focus on the section of the bylaw section 125 for variances and to ensure that we provide to you evidence that we've met each and every element of of that section and we believe we believe that we have done that now if at the end of our presentation uh We've we've done what we've promised to do uh we're hoping that this board will exercise its discretion and allow the re ested uh variance application just to sort of set up what we're planning for today I'm just going to go through a little maybe summary discussion of uh what it is that we're about to present to you the you know some of the evidence that that relates to the elements and then we're going to have uh several people get up and and present uh the first that we'll be presenting are uh Alan and and Kathy oon they're they're back here uh they're the owners of the property and they're going to they're going to talk a little bit about uh what it is that brought them here and and quite frankly caused this relationship to exist where they're trying to sell property to us uh next we'll have uh Kevin me and Kevin is sitting next to me Kevin is uh the owner owner of the applicant uh he's got a lot of experience in in uh the the field that we're talking about here and he'll what we have in mind for the project and then our last presenter will be Shawn Reen of tetr Shan is sitting at the end of the table uh he's our civil engineer and he's really going to speak to some of uh the elements of of the Varian statute including those that relate to the soil conditions and other things that are present on the property and cause us to believe that we have the right at least to be before you under this section of the B so the OK coners will will speak for themselves but uh um they want what they want to get across to you is why it is that it is simply impractical impracticable for them to consider a use of the property that would be among those uses that are all currently allowed under the bylaw and uh they and uh and Sean will you know will will show to you uh where where the land is is very steep where the grades are very difficult to build on where there are wet lands which effectively which have the effect of minimizing the amount of space on the property that is that is actually buildable and you know that said where that ultimately brings any buildable component of the of the property is to the corner of School Street and and West Main Street where uh we we're also whatever is built there let's say let's say a house was built there uh the the the primary uh visual reference for anyone looking out the window will be a very large water tower which is a there's nothing wrong with the water tower it serves a very great function but it's very difficult to believe and our and and the okon's experience is that no one wants to build a house there no one wants to to raise the family on that lot there are other lots that they could build on there are other houses that they could build on and all have passed on the purchase of the property for for that kind of use and uh that really speaks to uh the financial hardship that the that the okon find them themselves in they they are now in a situation where they're not as young as they used to be but they've run a business for 36 years years that was an agricultural use and is a little more difficult to be uh to be able to do on a day-to-day basis when you you reach a certain age and they have reached that age and they just can't do the things that they used to do nor can they find the kind of help that they need to continue running their business so what is it that they want to do they want to continue to be residents of the town of hackington that's what they want to do but quite frankly it's getting to be too expensive for them and so they they needed a solution and the solution was to sell some of their land so that they could simply Finance their their their the rest of their lives sit down and in in hackington in their home and uh eat sleep and uh and play with the grandkids do all the things that you that you and I take for granted but they're there's they're now in a situation where quite frankly they're suffering a serious financial hardship that requires some kind of relief and while they very much wanted to because of their a they have an agricultural farming background they would love to have continued to use this property for something like that to just to continue their legacy they can't and they've tried and they've tried and they've been told no no no again and again and again and the developers or brokers who they have have spoken to when they think about the kinds of things that they would be willing to do on on that particular lot uh the answer always seems to be about the same which is some kind of commercial use maybe if we combine this lot and the and the the very place that they would like to live live out their days maybe they' would build a condominium or or something along that lines but the when when they made uh when they had conversations with any potential interested suitors about doing something that was actually Allowed by the bylaw the answer was always you know absolutely no and and this is where my where the okon is find themselves and it is not a very good place and and we're just looking to really get them some relief and quite frankly by this application we we on this side we're the developer may be able to help them in that regard and we think that it's fair and we think that it's what a community might want from another member of their Community who's in need so the next element of the variant standards so I'm sort of just touching on uh the hardship element of the of the standard there but we'll we'll put more meat on the bones there the next element of the Varian standard requires us to show that there's no substantial detriment to the public good and uh uh Kevin is going to is going to speak to that and he's and uh he's going to speak to the kinds of uh time and effort that he's put into this project and his ideas for the project and quite frankly his his issues he's he's given an awful lot of thought about safety and other things that have been raised uh here and I do appreciate the CH the chairman mentioning that we are here on a we're here on a variance standard that's that's what we're doing but I think it is worth emphasizing again this is stop number one and uh that we are we are going to be before if if the board exercis discretion in our favor we're going to be before several other boards who are going to be looking at an awful lot of things including the planning board incl including full-blown traffic studies which will be peer which will be peer reviewed at our our expense to ensure that there that this is actually results in a safe project and we positively or negatively we'll have an opportunity to speak again at those those meetings um if if they're unsatisfied or satisfied and would like to further support our our our uh our project um so finally uh the intent of the bi bylaw will also remain intact if this is if if this is allowed at at the end of the day what we're trying to do here is uh are multiple uses that are already allowed under various bylaw sections but simply not in an agricultural uh in the agricultural District so the the idea of these uses is consistent with the bylaw just not here but that's what the variant standard really is about and then when I think about the intent of any bylaw whether it's the general bylaw or the zoning bylaw to me it comes down to you know health and safety and we have and we'll and we'll be talking about what it is that we're going to do uh here here to ensure that you know that the Ure that the intent of the bylaw is is satisfied now uh I I I try to understand what it is that uh Others May uh be troubled by in in this uh with respect to our application and I don't know the answer to that but I think I'm gonna I I may find out as this hearing goes along but it occurs to me that it's not because someone wants to build a country store and it's not because someone wants to have a farm and it's not because someone wants to have a blueberry patch where we're picking blueberries but that we what we have is we have uh four gas pumps in the back and I can assure you that the technology that is U utilized for today and this will be and and my client knows more about this than I do uh is not the technology of the 1950s and the 1960s where gas where gas tanks were put in the ground and and then there might have been a little prayer at the end and hopefully it was going to last for a few years these These are these are very high-tech tanks double wall tanks with alarms that really uh that that really provide you know the kind of protection that I think that anyone who was concerned and deserves to be concerned uh uh that this might be helpful in having them uh understand uh that you know we really are looking out for the the health and and safety of the community as we as we continue our in the development of our project so with that I would like to introduce the first presenter the first two presenters and if you don't mind I'm gonna have uh Katherine and um and Allan ' Conor get up together um and they just have a few words that they would like to share so what is the best thing to do have him sit here yeah yeah or just or you can make move you can move the microphone over there she wants to sit right hello I'm Kathy El coner 52 School Street I have stage four cancer and I deeply sadden by the outpouring of hostility extremism and excessive opposing signs many of you were my friends my customers and neighbors all of your words and actions have long lasting effects be kind to one another hello everybody I am the owner of 290 West Main Street as the trustee of Okana Family Trust my wife Kathy o Conor and I along with my daughter Kristen I've owned and operated Evergreen Haven Garden Center for 36 years we were unable to keep the garden center going for two reasons my wife and daughter have been deal dealing with serious medical issues and due to our advancing age we are not able to do a lot of the physical work necessary to keep things going nor afford to hire employees to help out the health issues that we are experiencing are not new and have caused us to find a way to sell the front lot and keep our home on the back over the last several years we have been in discussions with several real estate brokers and developers who are interested in purchasing our property we have an emotional attachment to this property I would love to see someone buy it for purposes of continuing our garden center or some other agricultural use but not one potential buyer was willing to make an offer on my property for purposes of a farm or agricultural use nor would anybody make an offer to purchase our front lot for residential use where we are seeking the variants some said they were considering a multi-unit condominium complex like the one at Pine Crest Village across the street others said they were thinking about one or more commercial buildings but things like warehousing or office space when I asked others about potentially building a house in the front lot the answer was always no they were not willing to invest because of the wetlands and elevation changes on the west side of the property which reduces the usable side of the lot size of the lot and would force them to put the house close to the intersection they also thought that a lot would not be appealing to buyers especially families because it a looming water tank across the street in a way in which the intersection has come to look more commercial than residential thank you for letting me speak so if we could uh uh we'll just uh have Kevin uh talk about the the project that we have in mind for for the property so I drove by there for years and I noticed that sorry so I'm Kevin mean I'm the applicant so I I had driven by there for years I had been a customer um of Alan Cathy occasionally um and then I noticed that it was closed down and I had been approached by uh Jeff and Angels through mutual friends that we have about him wanting to sell this property but it was a much bigger piece of property so I approached Al and his wife and asked them if they were interested in selling and they said they'd been trying to sell and they asked me what I wanted to do there and I told them i' I'd like to put a country store and they asked me what my my thoughts of a country store was and I thought it was something that looked country it was a it was a log cabiner it was a it was a cedar building um with a farm stand with with locally grown Goods like like the M Farm um with local honey and local deir and um at my home in Millis we raised cattle we've never actually sold it to the public uh but we raised Black Angus and I thought it would be a great place to roll out locally grown and farmed meat and vegetables along with a country store I saw a lot of stuff online that said you know we we sell all junk at what we consider to be a country store we a whole hardware department if if the hinge broke on your screen door there's a good chance we have it if you need a screw that's a quarter of an inch or four and a half inches long there a good chance that we have it if you don't have the right bit uh because there's Star Bits now and there's there's Philips head bits regular screwdriver bits there's a good chance that we have it if you need a 50 foot extension cord or 100 foot extension cord we probably have it uh if you want glutenfree or non- gluten-free we probably have it um um if you're looking for something to do with your children or your grandchildren if you want a a board game we probably have it this this town lost the Hallmark store downtown I think it was a great part of the town we lost the small grocery store across the street and put in a CVS we're the UN CVS we're the UN cuming Farms we're the unia um we're familyowned and operated like my family is truly involved I have five children three of whom work with me every day they hate the controversy of anything like this going on so they're hiding tonight I think that we could be a benefit to the town I noticed that I do a lot of driving I I I own other properties I own other businesses I don't see many areas where I drive through where the the Meridian the middle line is like it off like I see in hopkington it tells me that there there is definitely a traffic issue I assume that it's people coming from up on top of the hill coming down and trying to turn around and make a U-turn and I think that probably happens regularly and I I question if this wouldn't cut that down and I never expected everyone says you know I should have went and did a this is what I read online I should have went and did a a a traffic study I should have done an environmental study as I understand it from the attorney like this was our first step so our first step was to come to the board and see if we could get a variance and after that the planning board would say we want to do a fiscal impact study we want to do a traffic study we want to do an environmental study whatever it is we understand that we would have to do that we understand that there's a committee that would have to look at any any type of structure that we wanted to build and it would have to pass muster through that committee Jeff had told me that he was the chairman of that committee he told me he didn't like the roof that we showed him in the pictures um we told him we could change the roof but I I just thought that we would bring a different element we would bring something that the town lost we'd bring a little bit of that grocery store that small time grocery store I know you have a new one down the street we'd bring back something like you had with the Hallmark store with the cards with the gifts and you could find something there for everybody from a newborn baby we have stif beers in there so I I also read it is Chinese junk we have teddy bear in there that we pay $700 for um we might sell two a year but they're there or someone wants it um it's everything that I believe that I believe a country store would want at Halloween at this time of year right now we sell pumpkins and the front of the store is loaded up with pumpkins we'll sell over 15,000 pumpkins I mean it truly is a Country Farm Stand type store and I'd love to know if the board has any questions about it anything I could answer well the one thing you might also want to just talk about is the other services that you provide with respect to the gas so this would be a full service gas station where you would come in they would wash your windows they would pump your gas not some of the time all the time not some of the pumps um up in mendan we have both full serve and selfs serve we we just opened up another smaller gas station much smaller in upd it's a full serve gas station um we put in all the safety precautions like a self- serve but it is a full serve station that's that's how we intend on on running it all our employees are uniformed um doesn't make a big difference to you but with with the customers coming in and out they know who they know who the employees are um and it's a full service station where they would wash your window when when you come in and everybody sort of knows your name and along with that we took like half of that property and we turned it into a to a blueberry farm so again there were articles online or people making remarks that that was just you know part of the stick to get it approved I just planted 2800 blueberry plants on8 acres of land in on North Avenue in mendan um everything that I have is centered around my own personal properties is cting around centered around farming and ranching um we have pigs sheep chickens peacocks uh my children grew up with them we have horses um this isn't just uh like a game to me this is something that I I think could be a reality it's part of a bigger plan for us we uh we we were also before the planning board and in menend to open up a small locally owned we bought a small coup and we're gonna try change them Source everything locally meat locally um everything oranic all the vegetables locally all the fruits locally as much as we can um it's going to be something very different and we thought that we could on the smallest scale up here to the town of Hoppington we thought it be well received and we really were until the day before the last meeting we didn't hear a peep in the day before the meeting it kind of blew up on us so uh you know we'd like to do whatever pleases the board here but uh if there if there are any questions you wanted to to ask based on what you've heard so far um we'd be happy to take them now or we could have our engineer uh continue the presentation happy to do what you would like that's my you civil engineer with tetr we're based in Marboro Massachusetts been there for about 10 years prior of that we were in N for 30 years so grew up here in Franklin live in Littleton work in Maro so these are all communities that I'm familiar with and I spend a lot of time in um really quickly just wanted to cover a few things first is sort of identify the existing conditions on the site and sort of explain some of the the things that are so challenging about about making it work for what the allowed uses are um up on the board you have a a picture of the site along the left side is you'll see some dots those are those are Wetland Flags so that entire wetland in um in hopkington here you have a a fairly a fairly restrictive um Wetlands bylaw SE basically 75t from the edge of that Wetland is not you're not allowed to put a building in so effectively what that does is it takes about 40% of the site and the frankly the best 40% of the site is in terms of placement from the intersection it makes it sort of unusable as as anything that involves a building so that is probably the principal sort of hardship that we have is is because of those Wetland soils because of the steep slopes adjacent to it because of the Wetland setbacks it really pushes any any developable when when you're only allowed use is is a single family home or an agricultural use you know pushing it close to the intersection is I'm sure you can imagine probably not the best thing in the world um so that that that restriction that we have along the whole west side is is probably one of the principal characteristics while that related to soils and and topography that that make it untenable um second topographical condition we consider the intersection itself the signalized intersection the highway a topographical condition because it's part of the boundary condition of the site you're putting any of those uses adjacent to those those High use high density uses and high high traffic areas again you know as as Allan mentioned it's just really not tenable as a as a single family home um I would also argue that even it's current use as a as a garden center probably on the side of sort of less than safe because of their parking backs almost right out into West Main Street parking's actually partly in the right of way access isn't great it's right on top of the the intersection what we can do is we can take these things and and with a a more appropriately appropriate use to those kind of conditions we can come up with a solution that makes that work if you could go to the next page so that's what we've proposed we've looked at everything that we have against us which is the wetlands the traffic the the intersection conditions um and looked at some of the other issues around the community that have proven to be a challenge over the you course of the past years principle among them is the traffic conditions on the east side of 495 anybody that travels this Corridor knows I I just had a co-worker this morning talk to me about the signs he saw out on the street he comes from Upton and and I critical for people to have to go if they're going to 495 from the west and they want to get gas and coffee they've got to go past where they want to go that U-turn and then get back to 495 what we're trying to do is bring a service that makes sense in this location and actually makes sense for the same things that make it untenable from a the standpoint of a single family home or an agricultural use so being close to the intersection um being close to a busy intersection having access near that intersection those are all great things for a country store and for a filling station um we think that this is an appropriate use for this location I mean bottom line is this is these are exactly where you want this type of use um I think your zoning and all your other situations in town where we have similar places on the east side you they're very similarly located facilities what we're looking to do is do something on the west side that that speaks to those same needs um some of the key features want to explain those is trying to keep the scale as as you can imagine Kevin's got a lot of passion for this kind of stuff um he really does some some cool wonderful things that are absolutely sort of contradictory to current trends I think it's it's kind of unsatisfying seeing new development go up and it's the same and Farms although it's pretty right looks great but it's the same one I saw in in the next town over when I see a new Mobile station yeah they're clean and they look great but it's the same one I see everywhere I can guarantee you will never see another place like this because Kevin that's that's what Kevin does and it's meticulously cared for it's you creatively designed it's unbelievable commitment to finish quality and things like that so you we're excited about doing something at this location that hearkens back to sort of the traditional history of these sort of old rural corridors you know this is exactly where you would have seen a country store a 100 years ago right I think Angels right across the street perfect example this is exactly where you'd see that kind of use perfect location for it um the scale is consistent with the number of buildings that are out there there's about 4,000 square feet of building out there right now mostly green houses the building that we're proposing is 4,000 square feet um canopy area is about another four or 5,000 sare feet too but we wouldn't consider that a building it's just covered canopy for the the pumps um the same amount of sort of square footage coverage of the site one of the key factors here is is we have our intersec our access to the roads located at the very perimeter of the property so each one of our entrances at more than 150 fet from the intersection currently the entrance is right on the intersection so very very big Improvement to safety um the other thing too is there's no storm water management features on site right right now we have a landscape materials process not processing selling operation we had other sort of agricultural uses no storm water controls this would be completely um compliant with current uh massachusett storm water standards so in terms of the water quality at the Wetland in terms of the safety of the Wetland you know all all sub substantive improve improvements um the other thing that we do is um it's more centrally located and more efficiently laid out so we have a lot more room for land aping So currently there's less than a th square feet of what I would consider Landscaping on the site in this plan there's almost 20,000 square feet um really really pretty sort of um pollinator Gardens and and and grass area right at the corner of the intersection so your your first image will be a meticulously designed Country Store fronted by a very very very sort of appealing landscape um I was just driving into the senior center and I was impressed by the the hair on that's right on the end of Mayu Street and and their their attention to their landscape was exactly what sort of we're hoping for for our site um so anyway the idea being is you most cases you'd see the first thing you'd see would be the gas pumps right in this case we have our gas pumps out in the back you closest to the OK Conor's property so they said yeah that's okay put them next to our property so we can put the really really pretty part of the project right on the intersection so the long and the short of it is what we've done is we've taken those same things that make our site really untenable for allowed uses and play them to our advantage for what we're proposing to do and ideally to the benefit of the community and to the benefit of everybody that wants to you know secure these services on the east side or west side of 495 and just real quickly John you can go to the next page just to to sort of um list a few of the things that to keep in mind are um the building right now is about 150t from the Western Property boundary that that's five times the required setback so the required side setback in this district is 30 feet we're 150 feet from from that property boundary um we're a little bit closer on the North side that's the OK Conor's home but even then we have about 20 foot landscape buffer we meet all of our other dimensional requirements under zoning so the only relief we're looking for is is just the the use the allowance for the use um and the one of the other interesting aspects is Kevin mentioned is that whole edge of the the Wetland that we really aren't allowed to put any buildings in or do any Pavement in that that's going to be targeted as our our Blueberry Patch it might seem like a throwin but it's it's something that's been pretty important to Kevin over the course of the last decade um also another signature piece is the pollinator Gardens um Allan and Kathy's daughter Kristen is a from what I understand is a is a butterfly breeder so really this is another thing to sort of continue the character that family and continue their sort of legacy on the site um and yeah just for clarification there are only four pumps four islands with one pump each um not eight as there was previously discussed um and then just in closing just some comparisons to the to the existing use um I think we mentioned that Landscaping is a lot a lot more significant the building area is about the same the parking setbacks um are quite a bit better so right now the the parking along both West Main Street and School Street zero um in our case we have our parking setback off the road um and our building setbacks again are are well within Zone but with with that just we're hoping that people see that the logic behind what we've done sort of the Care behind what we've done um and our intent to do something special and do something that's consistent with what what you know I think most would hope to see in this location so my issue is the trust is the owner of the property the trust is the owner of the property petitioner does not own the property how is the petitioner suffering a substantial hardship the the the petitioner the the first of all the the current owner of the property owns owns the property and to the extent that it that it would uh that that it is harmed in any way by by what we're talking about here uh they are able to sell that property to someone else and we could sell it further on down the line and to the extent that those conditions still still exist which they would because they they run with the land all subsequent uh all all subsequent owners would would be would be suffering from the same I I don't I don't disagree that if in any case if a variance is granted it runs with the land and it can be sold or assigned my issue is the petitioner is not the owner of the property the petitioner is not suffering a hardship the petitioner came to for lack of a bettered term came to the nuisance in the sense that the petition of purchase that or or is in negot ation to purchase a piece of property knowing that it's in a in a agricultural Zone which doesn't allow for the intended use and so to seek a variance you're saying listen I have a substantial hardship okay you don't because you don't want to land and to the extent that the trust has a financial hardship their personal financial hardship is not one of the standards so I mean how do you get around that standing in the first instance before we go into any other question in the town of hopkington when someone files an an application either for variance or for a special permit your your pro processes and procedures allow for applicants who are who are are coming in for whatever purpose the applicant could be someone who's looking to buy the property which is who we are to to come in and make Arguments for variances and to make Arguments for special permits but there's one requirement it's required by your form that the uh that the applicant has the signature therefore the approval the ascent of the the the owner of the property so therefore when we're acting on behalf of the of the applicant under your own under your own documents we're acting here with the ascent of the owner and the owner is suff is suffering uh in in the manner that that we are describing ding now it's a use that the applicant is is going is going to build but right now it is a use that the owner is is Desiring to build because he is unable to as he described do anything else with that property so I believe that we 100% have have standing as the applicant to be here um U as long as we have a the signature of the owner on the application which we do all right well my next question is you've presented no evidence other than um Mr OK Conor claiming that people didn't want to buy the property you've had no evidence presented that it's a substantial now now the the variance the language is substantial okay hardship to me would mean there's no other viable use there's no other viable buyer okay and to the extent that the testimony has been well no one wants to build a build a single family home or some other type of residence I would Point your attention to I believe it's 83 East Main Street which has a similar situation where it's on a main intersection where it the other side of the intersection is a nursery okay and then you have Legacy Farms there and they just built what appears to be renovated an old country house and built I believe it's three town home type units but my my point is that's a viable use it's a similarly situated property okay so what evidence is there that the property was listed had a a a broker commercial residential broker representing it over the course of a period of time and no offers came in or the offers that came in were so substantially low that it didn't make sense to sell the fact that you have a commercial proposition that may proved to be more profitable than if it were a single family home I don't think meets the standard well first of all you can't say that there's no evidence you can you can re you can reach whatever conclusions you would like to to reach from our evidence I'm not re reaching a conclusion no evidence has been presented the evidence is the testimony of the property owner who o over the years since that's not that's not evidence of course that's evidence no he's basically saying listen I talked to a few Brokers no one want to buy it but show me backup show me uh uh you know if you retained a broker and the broker listed it um on a commercial real estate site or through the MLS and there over the period of time there was no action or there were offers made that were had major contingencies that he couldn't live with okay I don't see the evidence you have to show evidence of that hardship okay well you have evidence you can choose to disbelieve the testimony but you have the testimony and it is evidence and I think that you heard him here and that's one of the great benefits of being face Toof face with people so that you can assess whether or not they're telling the truth and you're you're the one who's going to decide whether or not the words you heard were the truth or whether you can trust them that's and I'm not and I'm not saying Council that your client was not telling the truth what I'm saying is there's no evidence there there has to be you know to talk to a realtor and says well there's no viable use for that because I my client doesn't want to build something because it's too close to the intersection okay that's not evidence like show concretely we had an offer that was only and I don't know what you're selling what the trust is selling the land for um that hasn't been presented but show me there's a substantial difference or there's no other viable Spire for this property I mean there's two kinds of evidence I mean there's there's written evidence and there's oral evidence and I think we're quibbling here a little bit but the but the evidence that we're presenting to you as to the as to the hardship here is the inability of the owner to sell that property for for a use that's allowed in an agricultural district and that is the that is our evidence the evidence is his testimony and it's very very strong and what he said is that he has talked to multiple Brokers he's been approached on a rather regular basis by people who are interested in buying the property and each and every time the answer is we've got ideas for your property but they're not they're not anything that would be allowed use again that is evidence and we believe that it is very strong and and and uh and would ask that the board uh rely on the oral testimony or make a determination that they don't believe it but it is it is a simple fact that he has made serious efforts and Communications with many many Brokers and and potential buyers all of whom give him the same answer and that that because of this because of what's going on on that land there there's no way they're going to do anything certainly not single family certainly not single family home and even town home if we if we were we would be here before you if we were trying to build a townhouse I believe I don't think that a townhouse is allowed and certainly not a row of tow houses um now some have approached him in indicating well you know between this property and your property maybe we could build a nice condo complex that's the kind of thing that I think that you're talking about here but what but but that again is something that would require us to go to this very same statute of the bylaw the so that is the evidence that is the evidence that we have which is the testimony of the homeowner concerning his his many many efforts and quite frankly they have been disheartening efforts as he sort of came to the conclusion there's really nothing that there's there's nothing that I'm going to be able to do here and I'm not going to be able to take care of my family that's where he is in this situation but as I understand it he divided that property created the situation if he were to sell the entire lot versus just a portion of the lot I I got that no if listen some of the some of those who have been interested have not just been interested in the in the in the front lot he's heard many talk about yeah let's do both and anytime he's dealt with someone who wanted who wanted to buy both and keep in mind he doesn't want to sell both he wants he likes hopkington he loves his house he has run a business there for the last 36 years his goal is to stay there but nonetheless he's heard the offers and what are they willing what are they going to do with his property what are they going to do with the front property if they bought them both exactly the same thing commercial commercial commercial or multi-unit uh kinds of things all of which would require them to come here to seek a variance from you so that they would have those youth or go to town meeting and get a CH and get a and get a zoning change of some kind but it's it is ex it would have been exactly the same situation now when he separated those those those lots he did not do it for purposes of ultimately coming before this board on a request for variance he had no concept of doing that he just needed money so that he could live his life pay his bills feed his family that's what that's what he was trying to do however in his back and forth with many many Brokers what did he learn he's out of luck he split that he split that every almost every lot in the town of hackington was subdivided they all have that in common this is no different he did not divide this for purposes of trying to create a problem on the property he didn't he initially did it so that he could sell a house lot on to to someone who might be interested in buying it and that never and that never came to fruition and because I don't think he fully comprehended exactly what was going on with the property so he did not create a a situ a a situation here he did what he had the legal right to do which was to legally separate the lots and to try to live his life so I don't see it that way so I got one more point if I may so the other aspect is the detriment to the neighborhood right so I take it we've got you know 100 people here but um you kind of skitted over that in your presentation right because to the extent that a a country store or gas station would be a benefit to the people that live around there or travel by there is one thing but there's with any development there's a detriment to the neighborhood potentially so what evidence do you have that there's no detriment to the neighborhood well the the standard is not a detriment but a substantial detrim and the evidence that we put on were began with the words of of Mr mean and what he what he uh uh said to you was that he had a project that and and he's describ it very very well along with the help of Shan that was was intended to provide a benefit the benefit is an oldtime Country Store I I get that so those are the those are the benefits I I understand that but what about the detriment so there's there's a benefit certainly to having a gas station on that side of town versus not but what about the detriment there's an economic detriment if people own property that is in around that proposed site that proposed gas station okay they bought their properties with the understanding that it was owned agriculturally and that certain things couldn't be there so when you have a gas station that's put in okay when when you have a gas station or or any commercial thing that has to be considered what is the economic detriment okay well properties and that decrease in property value is a constitutionally protected right we can't just Overlook at the standard that you just laid out continue on this back and forth in order for us to find four variants they have to meet all these standards so my suggestion is we allow the presentation and and then we hear the public comment and then if they have met the standard which are all these things that Sean is bringing up so so he right now the the you know they're going to finish their presentation and then we're going to open it up to public comment we'll ask questions and then the public will ask questions and we'll go from there and at some point this board will decide if you've met the standard to allow a variance in all those things that Sean was bringing up will be each one of those has is a criteria that has to be hit there's there is an order on how we do this meeting so let's continue with the presentation if you're done with the presentation let's continue with the questions understanding that those are part of the findings that we're going to judge this thing on so he's brought up some direct points on what's allowable for a variance if if it if if it's all right with the board I would just that comment is out there and I I would just like to spend 30 seconds and respond to that and at that point I'm gonna say to you that our presentation is over and we would and we'd like to open it up to to to comment but the standard that you just laid out it can't be the standard under your bylaw because if it was then anyone who ever sought a variance uh for a use would be uh would be creating a a detrimental use sufficiently high to prevent the allowance of a varians I mean that's not the the reason that what you what you're saying I don't think is correct is this it's because of the variance portion of the bylaw is something that the town of hopkington on any day can strike or ADD and they chose to add it in 1978 that was the year that it that it appeared here and it was so that that uh petitioners like my client could come in and and seek relief that was that was not was not in allowed use under the bylaw so I don't see that as a detriment at all if I may um the people that are in the hallway there there are more seats and there's more chairs so you don't want to stand in the hallway feel free to come in we're we're we are a friendly board we we sit right next to Baba okay um um do you have anything y yeah Mr Mr re um so just want to understand the the Topography of the lot I understand about the Wetland uh but what's can you just describe the the grading does it go downhill from uh School School Street to uh uh toward the Wetland I'm sorry sorry does the the grading the Topography of of this lot does it go downhill from school Street in the direction of the Wetland it it does so if you can look at the picture behind you the built area relatively flat everything else sort of in the in the sort of the the half that's closes to the built area slopes down to the Wetland the whole left edge of the site is the Wetland itself so there about four feet of grade change in that area between the Wetland and the the occupied portion of the site okay and four feet over what distance about 20 feet 30 feet maybe so what would you call that a 20% uh approximately yes y the Key Port Port part of that is within 50 feet we we have strict limitations on what we can do for regrading in that area based on the conservation commission requirements in town all right thank you for any uh Point have any conversations with the Conservation Commission about a potential variance for the relief from the setback I'm sorry can you repeat that sure uh if you at any time had conversations with the Conservation Commission about a potential variance for that setback that Wetland setback no we haven't but but the regulations are are well written and very descriptive famil with the regulations of this asking if you would ask for a variance or tested the waters for a variance at any point no we did do was we met with we met with the building inspector the Conservation Commission uh commission person in charge of conservation the town planner like we had several meetings at Town Hall when we were starting this to present and see what they thought of the plan or if they thought that we should be going in a different direction um but we didn't think it was out I didn't realize we could ask something at that point I thought that we started here like after the town kind of gave us any direction that they thought if something was bad or or whatever sure sure I understand you didn't have a a public hearing with the Conservation Commission but I don't know if at some point that might have that variance might have come up no we have had no formal conversations with the Conservation Commission Rel to this proposal you said you had a meeting with land use and planning through the chair was there a discussion of the hopkington master plan and consistency with zoning with the master plan if you recall don't maybe illusion to that but I I don't remember any specific sort of in-depth discussion about that okay thank you chairman I had was another question ick question would it as far as you're concerned uh you need to have the uh you need to have a gas station Filling Station to make this work I believe so I I don't know how it works without it what we did try to do though is we purposely put it behind we put it behind the building so that it wouldn't be like a regular gas station you wouldn't see it you're not going to see it as much from the street what you want to say SE that seems to be the main objection from what I can see but just want it is without question one of what we perceive to be one of the significant net traffic benefits right now is it is absolutely clear that there are with the traffic on the east side of 495 without question and that is almost exclusively created by the lack of filling station services on the west side so you you there please sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry it's it's not it's not it's not an open I mean I I drive this Corridor frequently I have co-workers that live in inton this is this is this is not a a subtle thing right for Mass do or for anybody to put barriers on the roadway that that signifies a significant issue I can't point to any other cause for that than the fact that people are trying to access the services on the east side of 495 that don't exist in the West to make it completely clear if if you you wouldn't go forward with this project if you couldn't have a gas station too much of an investment all right can you hear me um I live on West Main Street so I will I kind of understand some of the ejections because I have to go out in that traffic every day too sometimes I wait five minutes in my driveway because cars going three miles an hour won't let you in to get out so um and yes I have I don't like the fact that I have to turn around if I have to go get gas but I don't think that that's the reason for the traffic issue is because they're going to get gas and making the turnaround I just think it it the traffic on that road two times a day for I don't know how else to describe it and I I'm on I'm on that Causeway so I right there and um I feel it um I I love the the way it looks I love your store in at in in mendan I think it is a cool little I love I'm a little Hardware guy and I love the first time I went in there I thought it was a cool little place so if you guys haven't been there and it doesn't matter you should see it because it is a nice place and it's a unique place um that but that has nothing to do with to me what we're looking at what we're looking at is again and and and I does it meet the standard of variant whether I think that would for everyone to understand we're going to vote on not about a gas station or anything we're going to vote on whether a variance is allowed under the standard and then put anything there so that's what's important so you know this I don't think he I think he's in man of integrity he's going to do what he says based on all his history of what he's built but let's not lose sight of it so if once it's important but we're going to decide on the variance not the gas station okay whether the the standards are met to allow a variance so I hope you understand what our what our position is it's not pro gas station or Pro hobby shop or be Farm it's doesn't meet the standard and that's what we have to do um so so just let you know you got you got two people in the neighborhood I'm down the street but so I I do feel the traffic so it's not we're unsympathetic and I didn't mean to give the impression that this would solve traffic problems by any stretch of the imagination What I'm trying to trust me if it could solve traffic problems we would love it but I agree I don't think it's going to solve any traffic you and and one of the other things I want to bring up is like how many people here get coffee at redb bar you know and and so know so we it's it's not that that that there's not commercial there right now you know I buy all my stuff at at angels and my wife almost got killed by somebody pulling out a red bar they T-boned their car because they were just drinking you know so it's it's so we're again we're just we're not looking at what it is but just if they meet the standard and then a lot of these other questions that people might have are planning board Board of Health do EPA and all the other stuff so you know when when you're coming up and when it's public comment and everybody gets their two minutes just remember what our criteria is and that some of the things that you're going to try and bend us on we don't it doesn't come into our jurisdiction or our thoughts of how to do it okay anybody else anybody else want to open it up do have one more question Mr as for the for the town planner does this lie in the in the water protection overlay District this property generally so um so it looks like it's outside of the district it's right here microphone up there okay so the way so all right so the way we'll do it is um one at a time people coming up we're going to allow two minutes going to be strict because there's a lot of people here we'll BR we'll put a there'll be a seat there with a microphone so everybody can hear but um everybody gets two minutes absolutely you can be first and then just please State your please state your name and and your address I'm attorney jeffini wait wait wait to get the microphone loud attorney Jeff aini I represent um I've lost them all now I've got the five here we go I've got the five folks that live on Carlo um two of which are director Butters um just is a point order Mr chairman I kept track of a little bit of time um the applicant went about 38 minutes the board asked about I'm just asking you I have more than two minutes I mean I'm going to try to keep it brief but I'm sorry you don't have a choice I you be the appli take an hour and a half if they want to you know because that's because that's their that's their that's their right then we could take we could take two days if we have to well I don't want to do that but to be fair I mean I think you know my especially my folks two of which are director Butters should have maybe more than two minutes well they could come up and also speak that's why that's why I get paid is a point where um again not to be redund on a couple of things but I think sorry can everybody hear me the TV what oh yeah yes it's for the mic best I can yeah no well you have to because for the minutes of the meeting and it's on TV I don't like sitting down but sit okay so how many people you representing I have five okay and no you have to so I'll tell you what give me my two minutes I'll I'll object for the record but give me my two minutes and then and then whatever I just say to you is if you look at the timing of what's happened here in relation to the creation of this lot you know there's an old childhood scene if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck right so if you look at how they set up this law it started as a 5 and a half acre parcel right 2023 they file an anr plan okay and basically when they create this Ani plan they condense everything with this frontal lot and to be quite honest it's pretty transparent the lot was created for this purpose and I'll tell you why if you look at your zoning in the existing Master parcel it was five and a half acres right your zoning talks about 200 ft of Frontage there's 200 ft of Frontage on School Street so an anr lot could have been created for a house on School Street off the intersection and it would have been plenty of room it's pretty transparent folks there's there's no question in my mind no question in my client's mind this lot was created for this purpose which is a self-created hardship which kind of Springs towards off what Mr masteron said right their application is is devoid of any discussion about hardship and I have empathy and sympathy for the laot owners I I kind of see where they're coming from but that simply is not the standard and they have not met the standard the soil and topography if you look at the area and I and I brought Nas mapper I don't know if you can show on here but as a matter of fact the fitzpatricks are as impacted by the wetlands matter of fact they're more impacted by the wetlands than the lot in question so if you look looking at the the topography and the soils well it has to be unique to this property it's not the Wetland ribbon runs up between Fitzpatrick's property this newly created lot and the remaining lot so that's the second part they haven't even come close to hit the uniqueness and then you have to ask yourself a question how can they claim a yacht a lot is unique when they just created it they just created this in all due respect I listen to the applicant and one thing he said that kind of bothered me he just said a couple minutes ago he was asked if he had the option about the country store without the gas what would he do and I know Mr Riley you don't want to hear about the gas but he said I wouldn't build it we heard 15 minutes about a beautiful country store and I'm going to do all these wonderful things I can't have the gas I don't want to build it that speaks volumes to what is going on here and you know again I could sit up here I I've got an outline I'll gladly share with the board I'll share it with my brother my brother brother and I actually had a conversation today this is not the right project for this site it's it's just not and there's a there's a couple of cases on point I'm not going to recite them verbatim but when you talk about you know what's best for the for the community this is not it and what they've done is they've manipulated here's the thing I really want to be fair because I want everybody if I if I give you which is right for your two minutes you're supposed to and it's our identify ourselves and you're supposed to be from the town of hackington so you can represent other people but if you're representing then you're speaking for that person sure I'll tell you what because they and I'm okay with you speaking and no let me let me go let me let I'm I'm I'm not trying to discourage it what I'm saying is if you're GNA speak for someone if they're going to give you your two minutes as a town of Hoppington I'm fine with that I think everybody else is but what we don't want is then then the people you're representing also coming up and doing it because we're going to try and get this through this thing for two minutes I want to be fair to everybody so if you got five people there or 10 people there or 40 people there give you two minutes two two things if I could we've got a little rendering that I want to I want to show as far as how this Project's going overlay um I then will go because I think for the most part the the two prongs of the three-prong tests have been covered you know the last prong so let me before you do that sure just so you can so maybe I'm Mis communicating who you representing from town of Hoppington and they have their two minutes and if it's five people 10 people 20 people I don't care but you got because they're supposed to identify themselves as John Doe 2011 West Main Street I'm Mike Riley 2011 West Main Street and now and that's how we're going to acknowledge you and give that person two minutes so before you continue who is the people that he's representing James fitchpatrick Allison Patrick therefore for to Carlo okay come on up they have to be here come on up they're all here everyone's here they want okay but again then that's that's not the rules set out by the meeting next on so who's gon to speak everybody's pointing different ways Eren so you want to give your two minutes to him I'm gonna wrap it up with this The Last Prom I'll wrap it up with this if you look at the a Butter's list attached to the application all residential the only one that's not is that little corner store you got a residential labor so when you talk about whether or not it's derogatory to the community right the case law will tell us that in this particular situation when you have all residences this project is okay thank you sir I'll let my folks I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you look I I get it but I don't get it it's all right all right that's fine there still we have we have about aund and something people we set to stand out that we had a 10- minute 10 a two-minute time limit just go the W to say I know I I file our representation the applicant was given about a half an hour I have five people I I know Mr chairman I know I know I get it if I gave the app two minutes you know all I'm saying Mr J there to be bance I'm sure we'll have more than that when everybody speaks sure do you think it's not going to be balanced do you think that that it's it's I didn't I didn't I you know no I'm I'm sorry that's not how it works you did not hire him no not no's not repres unless you're if you're in list all right I'll tell you what I'll tell you what all these people we've got this pretty well cor Mr CH we get this pretty well choreographed okay great separate issu so I'm gonna We already up I'm gonna be quiet up almost seven minutes at this point okay good evening board members my name is Jim Fitzpatrick my wife Allison Fitzpatrick we live at Ford dealo Road we are the closest abutters to said property we've lived in hopkington for 18 years at this residence and what Mr Masterson said I agree with you 100% we bought the house because of the rural area because of the sense of community the sense of everything about Hopkinson the school system we invested our future in the property um we have many concerns Nam I'll be brief they are the way that this whole um setup is been arranged um the safety concerns and for the sake of time we'll talk about environmental uniquely we've done our research gas stations emit Vapors and they emit Benzene which is a carcinogen it creates um health concerns such as kidney disease leukemia um neur ological issues all the stuff that we've researched we've also researched that a gas station should not be has has to have a minimum of 300 feet away from residences where people live a lot of our abutters are within that 300 foot barrier that's harmful that's dangerous to all of us I'm sure that many of you would agree with that um we are also very very concerned with um the wetlands we we we when we move there we had our privacy we want the wetlands protected the gas pumps underneath those gas pumps are gas tanks that are approximately um 80 foot long 12 feet deep water is going to be displaced that could be into the wetlands soil is going to be manipulated by four feet to be straightened out that could be water into the wetlands that's going to disturb our backyard that's going to disturb probably flood in our basement we are not opposed to a gas station or a country store opposed to a gas station we are we are opposed to a gas station I'm sorry let me rephrase it I'm a little nervous I don't do this every day no that's we are opposed to a we don't do this every day you sound like you do um lastly I will say we're not opposed to anything going in there we want something tasteful that meets the rural character of our neighborhood why we bought the home something tasteful not a gas station frankly the gas station serves people west of us the tax dollars and people that live in hopkington need to be represented by the board this does not help our neighborhood in the least that's why we are so passionate about it and we need you to side with the people that live in the neighborhood no gas station I'm sorry Mr miam sorry none of that helps I know set yes sir hello uh my name is Joe Driscoll five to Carlo Road I want to talk for two minutes about traffic so as some of you know there are thousands of cars coming from Upton to 495 every morning uh the traffic backs up at the light the school street light a mile a mile and a half back into Upton I find it very hard to believe that people are going to want to sit in that traffic for a long time go to this gas station and then try to get back onto West Main Street it is very difficult to do that because you have to get back on School Street take a left onto west main that traffic light is red for an extended period of time and when it turns green it lets like three cars out so you're going to you're going to have you're going to have a queue of cars and school buses lining up on at that school street light in addition when you make that left from school Street onto West Maine there are people coming from the school Street Milford side who are illegally going right on red at the same time that you were turning left there so it's it's now become a dangerous leftand turn um so it's a it's a horrible spot for a gas station uh and of course in the afternoon no there's thousands of cars coming from 495 uh towards Upton and you're going to have just multiplied problems with a with a gas station there in terms of a hardship of not having a gas station um you know going towards 495 to go to all town and turn back to 495 would add about 15 seconds to your day it there's zero hardship there I've done it many times myself it is not difficult to do and um and people will get so frustrated going you know trying to get back back onto West Main Street from this gas station that you know they're just going to stop doing it so whatever uh whatever benefit they think they're getting they're not thank you one thing one thing I want want everybody to know the three of us live in that neighborhood it's you know I I make that turn several times every single day I work out of my house I have another shop downtown so I'm going back and forth all the time so for some of you people to think that that that three of the five members understand we do we do thank you Mr chairman and board of appeals my name is Eric green and I live at One De Carlo road which is about 350 feet from the proposed gas station living that close to this gas station means my family and I will be subject to health safety and environmental concern concerns and our property value will decrease by 2 to 3% which ironically means the town will receive fewer property tax dollars from us that said I know you serve for the good of the town and you don't want to hear not in my backyard concerns even though this use variance could set a very scary precedent for the rest of the town so I'll refer to the survey conducted by Hop news on October 1st the survey asked if residents were in favor or if they opposed the gas station as of this morning the results show by a very wide margin of 67% to 28% that the town does not want this gas station that's 2third of the 378 people who responded do not want a gas station in this location those staggering results do not mean we are anti-b bus just not a business that is detrimental to our health safety and environment further it has been widely reported that a small Coalition has collected Ed roughly 100 signatures in opposition to this gas station I'm here to tell you that that number is completely false and inaccurate Mr chairman I along with my neighbors and other concerned citizens have talked to hundreds and hundreds of hopkington residents some nearby and some on the other side of town Mr chairman I would like the signatures and addresses we collected to be entered into the public record board members please consider the voice of the public in your decision not just the direct abutters and please accept not 100 but 912 signatures in strong opposition to this gas station that will unnecessarily subject my neighbors and my family to health safety and environmental concerns thank you thank you last I'd like to know the answer to that too well um you can ask questions okay and it won't count against your time while they're answering what are the proposed hours bet all right so no no we're not going to have any everything has to go through the chair everything has to go through the chair so so the question is so the question is through the chair you want to ask a question about what the hours are have you determined that yet so the answer to your question is they haven't determine the hours yet okay so you can ask a question through the chair and they can answer through the chair there's not an interaction between folks okay it just keeps it civil it keeps it organized uh I'm Lyn Kelly I live at six to Carlo Road this is my husband Mark uh we've lived there for 21 years uh and raised our family there despite what the developers are telling you it's a lovely neighborhood and very uh highly sought after to live there it's not a rundown place that needs a gas station because nobody wants to do anything there in our eyes um there's talk about on social media people saying well I hope it's not a case of not in my backyard it is our backyard this is our backyard that abots what would be a gas station a 4,000 square foot twostory building with gas pumps behind it underground gas tanks um the drawing that we've seen has not one light post on it but you know that that gas station and area would be lit up quite bright um the noise that comes with a gas station with deliveries with tankers bringing gas with people you know there's 30 parking spaces on that drawing that's a lot of traffic coming in and out and they're saying they want to keep people there and draw them in and let's have them pick blueberries along your property line you know those are all things that create a hardship for us that we don't feel we should have to bear you know them doing this shouldn't create a hardship or a detriment to the neighborhood and it does um that's where we're at thank you thank you very much okay sorry hi I'm Annie Grant from 8 to Carlo Road my my family and I moved to Hopkinson 7 years ago and we're so fortunate to find what we saw was our Dream House in our Dream neighborhood when we toured the house we knew it was the right place for us because we could so clearly envision our children growing up there running through the Halls playing in the backyard and riding bikes in the street and we've been lucky because for seven years that Vision has become a reality and now we're facing the possibility that our Dream Home could have a gas station in the backyard the backyard where our kidss should be able to play safely but where they'll now play next to Bright Lights and loud noises from a potential gas station The Yards where our kids play tag swim in pools and swing on swing sets might now face a concrete jungle and hordes of commuters coming and going at any time of the day not to mention the obvious environmental and health concerns which some of my neighbors have already spoken about um but one of the more immediate issues to our kids is the danger posed by traffic I know my neighbor Joe Driscoll already discussed the traffic issues but I'd like to focus on how that traffic impacts our kids by 3:30 or 4 in the afternoon right when many of our kids are getting off the bus the increased volume of cars speeding through our neighborhood is noticeable drive through again at 5 or six and you're likely to find a string of cars riding your bumper in their haste to avoid the intersection and that's even currently as it zoned agricultural so I can only imagine that it would be worse if that were to change I too grew up on a street similar to DAR Carlo where cars would drive through to avoid traffic from a nearby Office Park and it took a child being killed before people woke up and did something about it is that what it's going to take for us with the addition of this gas station are we going to be able to feel safe letting our kids play hide and seek in the backyards or in the woods behind our houses or are we going to have to be on high alert to The Stranger Danger that's it's now present in some of our very own backyards with the added traffic will we be able to let them ride bikes or walk to a friend's house on their own would you I'm at two minutes okay well can I just well over just so all right well I just wanted to end by saying I know Mr Manan and his team said that there is no detriment to the public good but I think it's obvious that it would be detri hi and thank you for letting us speak I did not come as prepared as everyone else and unfortunately have to read from my phone which I hate doing as a teacher can you introduce yourself I am Kathy carry from 15 De Carlo Road and this is my husband Tom weisinger um interesting and this is just a side note but I'm starting with this our neighborhood has respectful signs and our voices wanted to be heard but yesterday somebody came by and we didn't know who took signs from very Lawns including ours and there was somebody seen walking away from the property but our signs were removed and I don't think that that should be uh something that was mentioned I do want to Sean I couldn't see back there because I'm old all right words are not evidence paper is evidence there are opinions and there is evidence maybe those so selling did not do their due diligence if so where is the proof who specifically said what was was said who were the brokers why aren't they here and if you did uh and I think if you did do your D due diligent you would be speaking differently prove it words someone's testimony that's not proof proof is on paper right so why don't people want this land location location location what happens if it fails and I believe it will then what those um and who are the customers not people from hopkington they would be Upton what will become if it doesn't succeed who can controls that a model Farm closed and was not replaced when I asked why they said the business was not there in addition if you feel you need to conceal the gas pumps then you already know why people oppose it we all have stories we all have needs but one couple's hardship has nothing to do with whether Hopkin needs another Filling Station The Filling Station will not increase the value of those homes in the neighborhood how is this place going to replace kelas or hopkington drug no one from town will drive to shop at this store it is too far from town and there are other viable choices like Price Chopper who sells cards and flowers and there is V CVS to replace hopkington drug people also shop on Amazon thank you thank you Mr chair in the board I'm Jeff Roland 14 Old Farm Road chair of the sustainable green committee and speaking on behalf of the committee I understand your guidance on the uh the variance I'm going to speak about the gas anyways and for the record I drove here in an so did I well the sustainable green committee cautions that the addition of this gas filling station would be a detriment to the public good there are obvious environmental and health concerns to this proposed project such as the loss of agricultural land and that soils around gas stations almost always become contaminated with a high water table and the position of this parcel at the top of the hill between multiple watersheds and neighborhoods it is almost certain that any potential contamination will spread far beyond the site further there's the goal of Net Zero carbon emissions last year the town adopted a goal of Net Zero by 2045 Hopkinson cannot reach Net Zero if we continue to invest in fossil fuel infrastructure adding a gas filling station would be at odds with a town stated climate goals gas usage is also declining in town in the past year 36% of new vehicle registrations in hopkington were EVS plug-in hybrids and hybrids with the majority of those being EVS all of these vehicles will use little to no gas and these numbers have been rising every year and will continue to do so as Massachusetts has banned the sale of vehicles with internal combustion engines by 2035 just 10 years from now homeowners also continue to switch from gas to electric lawn equipment continuing the decline in gas usage the committee advises the that the risks of this fossil fuel Filling Station do not outweigh the rewards thank you thank you good evening my name is Margaret Driscoll by De Cara Road I livt at this address for 25 years the application for zoning us varience attempts to persuade you to consider that a gas station at 290 West Main Street is a good idea it characterizes this location as in need of revitalization and proposes that a quaint gas station would harmonize with the character of the surrounding area the applicant seems to think that the neighborhood would welcome such a project to help sustain its rural tradition we do not agree the fact is that the installation of the traffic light at the corner of school in West Maine has produced unintended traffic problems that have had a regional effect West delm Street School Street and De Carlo Road have become major cut-throughs for the afternoon traffic traveling westbound previously children were able to ride bikes scooters and even play tennis on darara road after school now commuters speed through some tailgating in their effort to get ahead of the light this change has been become a disruption to the harmony of our neighborhood and has caused significant TR safety concerns an attraction at that intersection will work worsen traffic leaving us to deal with The Unwanted consequences furthermore the former Evergreen Haven Garden Center often had their mulch deliveries rerouted through De Carlo Road during the wee hours of the morning so trucks could better negotiate the turn into 290 West Maine the result was truck noise loud enough to wake family members how would this be any different for tanker trucks refilling pumps DEC Carlo road is a very desirable place to live and raise a family and should not bear the burden of absorbing hopkinson's commercial sprawl the applicant is presenting his project with nostalgic imagery and presumes benefits to the neighborhood that don't exist maintaining the agricultural district will continue to keep alive its rural tradition and keep out any hardships associated with the commercialization at 290 West Maine my name is Jerry kazen and I reside at 29 Elizabeth R served by the intersection of West man and school streets I'm an attorney well versed in the uh variant bylaw having appeared before the board for my own home uh with all due respect to the O coners and to Mr Mr mean with whom I share an affinity for Christmas lights uh my remarks are not anti- business or nimi but rather pro- rule of law because the variant bylaw prohibits the request of relief first the site has been and could again be used for residents in the petition's arguments against such use are disingenuous one no one would build a home or raise a family there this is pure speculation the site has not been on the MLS and the market has not spoken as a real estate broker I'm confident two modest residences at that corner would sell in a heartbeat recent history dictates there is nothing about the site not even the red herring water tower looming over the intersection since 1955 that would deter it because families have resided at all four corners at the Southwest right next to the water tower the feathers family built 66 School Street in 2000 which which last sold in 2005 after just 19 days on the market to the calman who raised a family there at the Northeast the hannes of raised a family at 280 West Main Street since 2001 at the southeast the aonomus angel and Paul DH raised Jeff and Steven at 65 School Street the Northwest relates to the petition's next disingenuous assertion two residential uses precluded on portions of the site removed from the intersection this is just plain false the OK Conor family home stood removed from the northwest corner of the intersection at the northeast of the site from 1950 until Mr aonor demolished it in 2012 second the site has been and could again be used for agricultural use and the petition's arguments against such use are meritless one too small the site was used for agriculture until Evergreen Haven recently ceased operations and the variant byot explicitly exclude size two not marketable this to is pure speculation because again the site has not been on the MLS and the market has not spoken three tax burden the site is eligible for agricultural real property tax relief under chapter 61a in in conclusion there is no hardship for which relief may be granted and the zoning bylaw is clear quote failure to establish any of the standards shall constitute grounds for this board to deny a petition for a variance but even if there were a hardship this board is prohibited from granting this red redistricting end around because as you've heard from my neighbors it would one come at the substantial detriment to the public good two nullifier substantially derogate from the intent or purpose of the zoning bylaw and three be injurious noxious offensive or detrimental to the neighborhood thank [Applause] [Music] you Jerry I think you could do one of those commercials afterwards I I I cannot speak that fast I um hello uh good evening members of the board my name is Andreas Graham I live at 10 Stone Gate Road off School Street um I pass through the corner of West Main and School Street every day um you've already heard concerns about traffic environmental impact and more I want to focus on the petitioner claim that their variance is justified by the existing retail facility on the site suggesting that the proposal is merely an enhancement and this is a misrepresentation of the SES facts the current retail facility is a small Farm Stand consisting of 12 20q foot office the other structures around that office are an enclosed wooden trestles the remaining buildings of the site are green houses used for Agricultural and consistent with the land's original designation in front of the small reta structure are six parking spaces the other areas of the property were designated for truck parking and to picking up logs and Mulch and did not serve the retail space the petitioner argues that the new country score store which will be 4,000 square feet does not increase the commercial square footage even though it is 33 times bigger than the current retail foot footprint their reasoning is based on the misleading inclusion of the green houses which parking spaces will increase from 6 to 35 this is a five-fold increase without an existing variance it is not appropriate to include the agricultural buildings and future commercial expansion plans this point fundamentally undermines the petition U the petitions uh and should be a key consideration in your consideration furthermore one uh one that does not exist in the current site is a gas station it's not there so everything else is there but no gas station the petitioner is Keen to highlight the existing structures but ignores the change of use the pursuing of the variance is a blatant attempt to circumvent the the town's zoning by by Lords and I encourage the the board to vote against this variance thank thank you um um my grandparents my disabled cousin and great grandmother oh my so I was gonna talk about like say oh I don't live in um I don't live in hton but I'm gonna use my grandparents house for example okay go ahead and what's your name Grayson Woody so if say if the gas station was there and the gased the wells my grandparents and everybody else who has a well would have polluted water and not be able to take showers or clean water to use for any type of foods that need water thank you good [Applause] job thank you uh Doug hunt h on Matthew Road um not too far from this location so a little bit of a Different Twist here um I am very sympathetic and have tremendous amount of empathy for for Kathy and and what she's going through I've been a a resident for 29 years and been at her uh Evergreen location for many many years and uh I did not realize you had stage four cancer and I just wanted to express empathy from from the town of Hoppington for what a great uh citizen of Hoppington you've been God bless you um and I do think that uh you know she does deserve consideration uh I think it's fair to give her consideration I do think uh a country store a true Country Store the way it's been laid out um and and frankly um the plan looks impressive um and if we're putting a true Country Store in the in the vein of a model Farms as you mentioned uh would be uh something that the town should be seriously considering um I'm a huge fan of the Amato F Farm Stand what was there before uh I do appreciate the current technology for fuel tanks um that that's out there is highly different from historical uh with with what's been out there in the past um but uh I do want to make sure we put some real Clarity around the number of pumps because I uh have been visited by people to my home uh that have said there's 12 plus pumps going in and uh I don't know why um that's being said but uh if you're really putting in a country store uh and you're only putting in four pumps uh that that should be really held to by the future boards if this takes any kind of serious consideration and uh I really want to make sure that that happens I've seen what U uh has been put in mended in the past it is an impressive store uh and I think would be a positive for the overall Community uh but nobody wants a large gas station uh in in that location that's that's for sure but if you were to build the plan as you've laid it out uh I I think it would be U an interesting proposition uh it it deserves all of the uh of the planning committee's attention and all committees attentions around the environmental and safety guidelines that's I think going to be critical uh thank you and uh I just want to say that uh uh it is important that uh it goes through the proper process with all those considerations for all the future boards thank you my name is Michelle Murdoch I live at 53 School Street I've lived there for 30 years um and one of the things that stands out for me is that school street is a Scenic Road Scenic roads have no sidewalks they have protected trees most of the homes have stone walls all of which cannot be touched ch or moved um and I think that a gas station at the end of the street is just ridiculous and does not fit that that scene um during the presentation they cited that the gas tanks on the east side of 495 were similar you've gotta be kidding me uh that area on the east side is not the area of School Street in West Maine not even close um they also talked about placing the gas pumps at the back of the property and they would be hidden well guess what they would not be hidden from the people that live on School Street and every time I would drive out to West Main to leave and go somewhere I would be steering at gas tanks I would also be faced with if people were entering to go to the gas station they have to turn into school and cut in front of me okay and we have a light at school Street which we would not get out that's why it was put in there as I think someone else said it takes three cars to get that's all that's going to get through and now we would have traffic cutting in front of us to go and get gas so there's just no way this fits and um I can't support it and I'm hoping that this won't go through I'm sorry for for the situation that the seller is in um but again I think there was another valid point that the people making the proposal for the variant don't own the property and if you really thought it was a good go you would have bought it first thank you hello my name's uh Craig Stanley I live at 25 Hill crust drive I'm going to be on the opposite side of the aisle here um I not in my backyard I I live in Hill crust Drive Price Chopper Plaza is my my backyard all of our neighborhood were all up in arms you know we're afraid our taxes our property vales were going to go down um the traffic would be horrible and that's not the case my house is worth more today than it was a week ago um the traffic I have seen no difference in traffic with price choer being there which is 50 times bigger than what is being proposed here um the other the other thing is something is going to go there whether it's something that Kevin me builds or something that somebody else builds maybe a air horn Factory we don't know but I do know Kevin me I've known Kevin for over 30 years uh working for the town of Milford for almost 40 years uh he has given every community that he's come into he's made it a better place to live he's not he's not gonna come here and and build shoty stuff or uh he he has contributed so much to every Community Milford you can ask any of his abutters they all love them go to you go to menend ask any of his at Butters in menend I'm sure all you're GNA hear is great things he's a good man and I'd rather have Kevin build something that's I know it's going to be good where somebody else God only knows what we're going to get and that's all I have to say thank you thank you Keith Benson 11 Barber Road I grew up in Hopkinson I went to hopkington high school I now lived in Hopkinson for 15 years I want to specifically talk about the detriment side of it um we talked about the financial impact of the town I want to raise a few points for people that think that you know we need more Commercial Business in town um I don't think this helps the town from an economic standpoint that the as a whole or the residents around it if you look at the specific you know tax revenue for the town it's specifically around the property tax all the other taxes corporate tax gas tax sales tax all goes to the state the only benefit the town gets is property tax and you can look at the the 2025 budget plan for the town of $115 million over 80% of the of the over 80% of the $15 million budget for 2025 town of hopkington it's all property tax so what we're talking about here is property tax and if you could do look at a comparable gas station of Cumberland Farms by $495 it's assessed at $2 million so $2 million of taxable property is what we're kind of talking about for benefits of the town of tax dollars and if you look at the homes around this pullon of land they're all assessed around a million dollars if it's Patrick home you can look online it's assess it's you can look it's a million dollar assess it's fair to say that these other other homes close to it are assessed are around a million dollars so you have two $2 million of taxable property for the this would be gas station a million dollar homes around it let's say each of these homes the five closest homes Dro by 20% in property value because clearly all these people don't wouldn't want to buy a house that has a gas station right behind them property values drop let's say 20% five homes a million dollars that's a net loss of a million dollars with the five closest homes the other 20 homes in our neighborhood drop by 10% in property value so you have 20 homes assessed around million dollars lose 10% that's negative $2 million the five closest homes Dro by 20% that's a million loss so negative3 million with plus two it's a negative loss in the town for tax dollars tax R NE negative $1 million then the people are just right around it are losing a significant portion of their property value of so you talk about detriment it's a it's a detriment to the whole town and the people around it and I would say know for a win-win business this looks like a lose for the town lose for the people around it thank you I'd like to read like to read on behalf of someone else i' like to read on behalf of someone else well I'd like to have people that entered that sent you an email I'd like to have their comments right along to the to the community they have the no into public I'd like to have it read aloud you can read you can I'll ask somebody else to read the comments for me my name is Andrew amatoo I live at 75 School Street uh like like it's been said my family's lived in the town for a long time I grew up here I went to high school went away came back to raise my family uh I've got to say when you get a millennial out at a meeting like this you know the idea is terrible I'm sympathetic to the cause um you mentioned the farm my family had to sell the farm under similar circumstances and I think the key thing that was mentioned was is where's the the evidence for the grievance here that this is actually needed it's been such a short amount of time there was a house there people would live there absolutely you can't say that there's been enough offers to actually go out and take this kind of project on I really really think that uh it's comparable to the situation my family was in where it took 10 years before anything actually happened with the Old aato Farm because there was process people went through there were board meetings like this and proposals came and proposals went that's that's evidence right like that's hey we tried to do this we tried to do that nothing worked eventually it changed hands enough times and something was built that's the burden of proof that I think we're looking for that's just not here it was way too fast and there's the evidence suggest that the house could be built there and I'll leave it at that thank you hi my name is uh Steve West I'm at uh six Barber Road which is just around the corner from this um the uh I'm very Pro for this site to have a two to three un townhouse uh or a single unit uh home uh to fit right in with the million dollar homes Million Dollar Plus Homes in this area the idea that it can't sell is absolutely ridiculous um the need for the community across the street we have uh the Red Barn which is coffee breakfast lunch down each this single Road within five miles is four gas stations within five miles the need for a gas station here is absolutely ridiculous this site is at the top of a hill John Hopkins University study 2023 shows that 400 gallons on average are spilled at a gas station every year and that 20 to 30% of fuel tanks at gas stations or their lifetime will spill this is at the top of the hill when you spill something here what happens the entire area downhill is contaminated like forever we have wetlands in my backyard that are directly connected with the runoff from the water in this whole area so just spilling of small amounts of gas that then is by rainwater is brought off is there's no possible way that is not going to be contaminating this site and then all of the wetlands including my backyard I own three acres more than half of my property is wetlands low-lying area it's going to be directly contaminated where my children live I am not going to want to be there there along with other people property value is going to tank also the traffic here if you say detriment if this traffic messes things up here let's say two and a half minutes by one light cycle each way that's five minutes per day 300 days out of 365 all of the residents in this area have to go by there that's 1500 minutes a year that's 25 hours a year of extra time and our car because of extra traffic because of this site you know it's ridiculous it's massive impact the people here the traffic jam goes all the way down to Price Chopper in One Direction and miles down in the other direction already if this worsens it e five 10 or 20% it will be catastrophic to the people who live here and the thousands that pass by it every day thank you hello my name is Linda chess I'm from 11 School Street and I want to say that I've enjoyed going to Evergreen and buying things from them and I wish them the best with whatever happens um my first question is related to many people have mentioned there's been no evidence of proving that the lot couldn't be sold and my question is why was that evidence not brought one has to wonder that if you were trying to make a case why would you have not brought actual evidence um the second thing is I don't understand how you can address detriment to the town without knowing what goes in there you said oh it doesn't matter what goes in but one of the things you're looking for is detriment I don't understand how you can assess detriment without knowing what's going to go in there one of the reasons just as an answer because once you do the variance it really can be anything that's that's that's what's really important to understand because uh it doesn't have to be this once you do it once you change that you're going to allow commercial property it doesn't have to be this it could be so that's why I know no I understand but we that's why it's important to understand we have to just determine whether a variance is they qualify for variance not they qualify for variance because of this particular project okay that's still hard for me to wrap my head around but like some commercial things would be detrimental and some would not so it's hard for me to wrap my head around that um oops did I lose power sorry one second um and that was sort of my other point once you grant this variance it's granted forever we've lost agricultural land forever and we have no say what goes in there in the future and I think that's important to know and the last thing about a gas station which I know I'm not supposed to talk about specifically there's currently a state law that says as of 2035 no more gas- powered vehicles will be allowed to be sold in the state New Vehicles so here we are investing in putting tanks in the ground for something that in about 10 years is effectively starting to go Obsolete and it's a big investment to put gas tanks in the ground from an environmental perspective thank you thank you Steve Cony nine to Carlo Road I'm about 500 feet from the site just outside of the Fitzpatrick's uh I've been on Dalal Road for 29 years so I've seen the traffic at that intersection 15 years before the light went in and 15 years after the light so I have that unique experience and so as you know to the chair um there's no way of getting out of dalala Road without you know running the risk of an accident on the r and I'm an early riser I I leave anywhere from 5 to 7even o'clock in the morning so nothing's going to get better by this this project it's not going to get better there's nothing that's been presented today that says that this is going to get better because we know that it you know you bring a 55 foot tanker into that site it's not even going to be able to turn out of that site because you only have one lane a single Lane if you go down to the mobile site you have two lanes and I've talk to that uh tanker driver he can't pull out onto West Main Street he backs out and goes out the bat that's a fact that's not anal doal I talked to him for 30 minutes so that's what's going to happen here that tanker when it comes in is going to back up all the traffic and and the way they got it set it up right now excuse me my my throat is really dry he'll have to go out on a residential street which is a school street that that's not going to work he'll have to he'll have to cross that single L to turn a 55 foot tank so what's going to happen here and this is what's the trouble I have with the continue statements about you know we this might change it's going to change because it's not going to work and you said I could uh being an engineer I've I've pulled permits and use permits for my biotech for 14 years I'm in in the design build business I'm a civil engineer myself and I'd like to address uh Sean with a couple of questions will will it take time you said it wouldn't take time I just want to ask him two questions but can I ask him the two questions you can ask the chair no goes to the chair chair may I asked Sean two questions I'm sorry I'm sorry thanks John done this before you yes yes John so my my first question John is the civil engineers for the applicant stated that the disrupt well first of all they're applying John to to the chair they're applying because they don't want to disturb the soil or the soil is it's detrimental to some of these uses that you know they were conveying that were rejected but the the disturbing the soil by as much as to to their emission upwards of four feet of fill what's the question the question is there was a statement that only 50 feet was going to be filled there's over 150 feet of fill that's going to go onto the site so the question is why why are they disturbing this site by 150 feet for this use when they said previously that you know there was no use that they could do without you know substantial detriment there is no detriment if they have to fill so your question is why are they doing 150 when they stated 50 yes because we have to get the question that's the question there the disturbance is is much greater than what they stated can he confirm that I'm not sure I understand the question but let me sort of restate what what I recall saying so so the hardship Bears on the fact that we have a wetland that extends the entire western edge of the site that Wetland takes up a certain portion of the site the town has a wetland bylaw that has a 50 foot no builds Zone adjacent to that which precludes any activity within that area that isn't otherwise to fix an existing situation so that all that sort of those are all soil you wetlands are hydric soils those are soil conditions the grade in that 50 foot zone is topography those are topographical conditions all of those conditions Force our development closer to the signalized intersection which is closer to a a control situation that is not in our opin not conducive to a single family home and not conducive to other uses allowed within the agricultural District the chair my my question was to setback the statement was made by by the civil engineer when the question was asked I Believe by one of the board members what was the the distance of that field a statement was made it was only 50 feet and if you look at the plan they're disturbing they filling the site if I Rec what he was talking was I I just want to I just want to clarify that the plan shows over four feet of Phill going back 150 feet to okay the second yeah so the second question is does does the civil engineer uh representing the applicant know at this time when he said that the all uh design considerations to protect the storm water would be done does he does he know where that that head wall is where the discharge is going to take place where is where's the discharge I was standing on I was standing on it this morning to the chair and it's in that it's in that North uh North corner right on West Main Street that's the only place the water goes out right now and they they're creating imp soil impious cover between the between the pavement and so forth all of that based on the grading right now is going to go into that weap and going to stop because we because that that hasn't been determined yet that would be determined if if it goes through our on this plan I can read I can read that grading plan they can read this grading plan and that's and that's not being discussed the people that are bu us who are my friends you have a question to ask you're about minutes and so do you want to answer the question then yeah just for for clarity so we we will be required to comply with Massachusetts storm water standards as part of our filing with Conservation Commission as part of our compliance with other local regulations the current site has no storm water controls my statement was that the project will result in a completely compliant storm water management system where none exists today that is guaranteed through the execution of the no notice of intent process with your Conservation Commission that is not discretionary that will will occur thank [Applause] you Tom Murdoch 53 School Street I've lived at that location about five houses down from the um 290 uh which is also a budding on SCH School Street for 30 years and I think um if you ask my current neighbors many of whom are here or any of the neighbors I've had over the last 30 years of our neighborhood I would be hard you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that said you know what we really need is a gas station and a convenience store plopped at the end of that street in the middle of our residential neigh instead what would you hear we have an ideal combination today we are two miles away from two gas stations right next to 495 um recently they even improved the Mobile's even bigger and I just dispute that it's a hard or traffic problem to get there I agree with my neighbor who said you just take a left at the light you take a left at the stop sign you come in the back and there's two giant and two entrances to the mobile and you exit out the front there's plenty of pumps I find the argument by the developer and his Representatives that the a positive reason for his proposal is to pull business away from those two gas stations existing at a proper location in a properly zoned area with existing gas tanks right next to a highway and move that traffic that noise that disruption building new tanks on the ground right in the middle of our residential neighborhood seems ridiculous it's a crazy idea we don't need it there some of the things that that that might be at this convenience store called The Country Store sound like they might be more appropriate a Target we don't need a little Target plopped in our neighborhood it's just two three couple miles down 495 it's an ideal combination of a neighborhood with easy access to what we need already we don't need this the benefit to the town is absolutely minimal which is the first step and I think we've also talked about all the detriments including the traffic the big thing about the traffic is especially the afternoon traffic it backs up so far from 495 we get all the cuts that were mentioned and because that traffic light's the top of that Hill you can sit at that traffic light and you can watch the cars go through and they get 60 seconds or more and they will be apart by like aund feet from each other and anything that slows them down going in or out to go into this business will blow our traffic way out of concern thank [Applause] you hi um Elizabeth Gormley at nine peppercorn Road I actually wasn't going to speak um I've had kind of a change in in mindset um today so I came in all about gas station Commercial okay you know I'm totally for commercial um in building up the town of hopkington um but after like kind of hearing everything um I'm really against that site being used as commercial um in terms of how it abuts the the people that have spoken um literally their backyards um so I ask kind of the board and the people taking the vote to think about your backyard and because we have such a risk of what will go there um as a commercial entity I think the risk is way bigger than any type of reward for the town um and I think it also sets a huge precedent um Hopkinton has had a lot of residential growth um so is it setting a precedent to the whole Legacy Farms is that going to be built up as you know a huge commercial entity I'm just using that as an example but I I have had a kind of a step back to say it's not about the gas station it's about the variance and really the effects on the town so I hope you take that into account thank you EXC me one thing I'd like to address is is the this and I heard it a couple times the precedent you know this is anybody can come anytime to the board of appeals and ask for something to be rezoned a small property or people can go to town meeting like what that happened with on on West Main Street down by um across the street from where uh Dynasty used to be there there were four houses that were rezoned because there were four houses there was there was commercial on one side commercial on the other side so there's no precedent where all of a sudden I'm sure that if this this goes one way or the other that that people are going to be coming up from the middle of Elizabeth Road and saying oh I want to redo something here um you know so this's this we still have all the all the criteria to go through so what whatever happens here does not mean it's gonna I believe there'll be a a waterfall hi uh Jacob caral 13 Elizabeth um I just want to clarify something Mr Riley said a couple times now uh about how the intended use is irrelevant to the decision uh whether the variance should be granted um it seems in the the Hopkinson statute which refers to the Massachusetts statute that the the non-conforming use and the effects it's going to have on the neighborhood are are totally relevant to that decision uh so I was just hoping for an clar explanation because it can become anything it can they're asking for a gas station but he has a right once a variance is done it's commercial property it's changing it from Resident Agricultural and resident and residential those are the only two accepted uses now to a commercial use so I was just trying to get people that that that we're going to judge whether this hardship exists and whether a variance should be granted based on if that hardship exists a couple of the folks have brought up interesting things about saying well here's why it's not a hardship you guys a public detriment you know what's the definition of a public detriment you're kind of displaying a public detriment so all those standards have to be met in order to allow a variance the if it was something else then and Arnold asked the question about hey what if there was no gas station well he's not interested if it's not a gas station if there was no gas station so see what I mean it doesn't really matter what it is it's at they're applying on their property in saying because of these really three or four standards in in the variance things does is it a hardship is a topography caused the hardship is it not a detriment to the public those all those standards have to be met in order for this board to say you've met the standard we're going to Grant the variance oh you're going to put that up okay that's that's that's you know in the back of your mind it's part of it but it's not really because he could change his mind and say oh it's a commercial property I'm going to build something else I I think the the detriment to the neighborhood prong of the standard you're referring to says that the the proposed non-conforming use not any proposed non-conforming use it asks whether the proposed non-conforming use will be a detriment to the neighborhood and a contravention of the purpose of the zoning laws and I think it's impossible to consider that without without I do understand but I also understand that they have a right to change that in my mind whether I believe in in in I having you know formulated my thoughts on how I'm going to conclude this when when we get to a vote but I have to understand that there's a possibility that they may not do that I'm really going to focus on me personally I'm not saying how anybody else in the board is I'm going to focus on has the hardship been met by the standard and that's what I will eventually vote on okay well I I hope you read the statue closely yeah see I have one more thing so you know several years ago a uh a bank wanted to go into the the spot where Dunkin Donuts is now and um a similar group came out and said we do not want a Commercial Bank going into that spot and the bank pulled out a couple years later we have a Dunkin' Donuts that that um created an even bigger traffic problem and some some of these other things so so you know one of the things you never know what's going to go in this I think it gets worse than a gas station no I'm just saying for that area a bank would have been [Applause] better uh good evening I'm Glenn Griffiths I'm uh I live at nine barbar Road I've been there for about 20 20 years and I am going to read so these are not my opinions uh I'm going to read Robert Benson uh chair of the plan board's email um to the board so I think you probably read already read this and thank you I appreciate your comments earlier about precedent and I think this addresses some of those so I'm sorry if it's repeating um dear zoning board of appeals I'm writing to express my opposition to the proposed use variance of the property at 290 West Main Street land owners have establ have established Avenues to seek rezoning such as presenting before the zoning advisory committee and planning board uh or citizens position it appears that the current land owner subdivided their property in the latter half of 2023 uh to circumvent these established processes to seek use variance which ultimately aims to increase the property's value granting this variance would set a dangerous precedent in Hopkinton as it would allow for the zba to effectively dictate zoning requirements outside the will of the community as expressed at our annual town meeting this application does not meet the reasonable standards for consideration by the the board of appeals and I believe it would be prudent to conclude this matter in a short meeting moreover the potential negative impact on public good is evident from the signatures on the petition and numerous yard signs opposing the variance I urge the board to consider the conceptual drawing submitted do not determine what would actually be built if the variance is granted which Mr Riley has told us about uh lastly I want to highlight that if the board of appeals were to approve this variance any property owner who experiences a reduction in prop value may have grounds to personally sue the board members who voted in favor I request this letter be read aloud at tonight's meeting sincer sincerely Robert Benson um again those are his opinions appreciate you taking uh allowing me the time thank you thank [Applause] you hello everyone uh my name is David zong uh I live in 14 School Street uh first of all I want to say I've been customers to the seller and I'm very sympathetic to the medical conditions that your family member and same as my family member is going through first I want to say I'm not anti- business and I'm not anti Mr uh M but I'm still impressed by the blueberry patches idea in your proposal just minus the gas station likely I may even visit one of your business in M other the places that you mention has local Black Angus beef but I want to bring to the board's attention that the decision I believe is given to the lot and not to Mr Mia right so let's say once granted there's no ST stopping for other folks to come offer to buy this land as commercial use and do things more profitable and sometimes I try to put myself as a potential investor perhaps a 24-hour auto car washing facility uh you know man by one or two uh folks less less employees could be going in could be much more uh profitable or a 24hour gaming our kides for the teenagers in the neighborhood I'm just thinking about investing ideas for for this slot once we give the variation for commercial use yeah and then Agricultural and residential I believe is still the most suitable for this lot as all my neighbors uh that have come before me already ADI uh you know said clearly so I advise the board to not go through with this variation thank you thank [Applause] you on the right before you get to the stop sign um I think what's awesome is I'm glad they've submitted a proposal that has a gas station because they could have submitted a proposal which you've clarified that was the country store or frankly just parking in blueberry bushes you grant the variance and then we end up with the gas station so I think it's pretty awesome that at least my understanding was I guess it's asking the question let's say they had submitted the Country Store based on what you explained earlier could it turn into a gas station after the fact think it could have turned to a gas station but they could have done they would other commercial use they would still need a special per just like the last speak that came out and but they would have gotten through this step of the process okay no if the last speaker that just said it could be a a car wash or something else again planning board border Health we get those things they and 24-hour things are not allowed in hington anymore well this is zoned agre agricultural it shouldn't be allowed here and I guess the point I was going to make is from uh that the traffic studies that were previously before they put the light in it was primarily driven because it was in the top 5% for highest crashes uh that was before the light in light went in I'm sure there was very elaborate traffic studies that were done the unintended consequences we literally live on West Elm there's cars going probably 40 50 miles an hour zooming in front of our house they're stacked 20 30 40 deep you cannot walk in front of our house with whether it's pets or anything else two hours in the evening they roll through the stoplight you're literally taking your life in your own hands and guess what they aren't going to the corner there to wait through three four five stop lights they're then cutting through to Carlo so the traffic study that I'm sure was done when they put the light in five six seven eight years ago I for I forget the exact timing didn't incorporate that and I personally don't have a lot of faith that if you let it get past this and it gets to the point where somebody does a traffic study and they determine that it's actually some kind of benefit or something I don't believe it we live it we bought the house without fully understanding this we're getting through it but we alter what we do in the afternoons just to avoid frankly getting killed so that that was the main point it's a significant detriment I know this I won't uh we we started walk we just don't do it because it's dangerous it's just dangerous hi I'm uh Jack oir I live at three Barber Road with vernam IMS my partner been there for 27 years wasn't planning on speaking um kind of following Elizabeth's path I started to think about what you're were saying about concentrating on the variance aspect of this because I have a well that's 400 feet from here and I'm concerned like everybody that the runoff and all the environmental issues will end up in the well and if it doesn't it doesn't matter because if we ever sell the house the next people will worry about it and it's not like we don't all know what it feels like to be worrying about water problems in the town you know so uh and as occurs to me I'm the last person here and I don't really have anything big to say so that's kind of bad but I just feel like the what's happened here is that the hardship that many of us don't perceive of selling this property residential is really just about maximizing profit to at the expense of each one of us homeowners that are here we we each lose one two three perent and they they gather it all up as a piece of commercial property and so I'd like to speak just to say that when we all moved in here we all knew that there was Zoning for res for residential Agriculture and we assumed that that would protect us and that that the people here this board would protect us from from this exact thing happening you know that next next week McDonald's wants to put in a um because they can maximize profits so they buy your house or your house and say Hey you know it's a hardship because the the owner says we we could sell it for a million dollars but we can sell it to McDonald's for $2 million it's a hard ship and so byw against I well that's what we thought about this you know um we really honestly the idea that that a gas station or any I know what or anything else that any commercial that a commercial building that a that a retail piece of property would be stuck on the end is that over be there thank thank you Jennifer green one to carer Road I want to say thank you to jack that was quite eloquent and um it's been a long night for everybody but um the flippancy is challenging to listen to he's making a comment about McDonald's we understand that that's not gonna happen Okay but we also didn't expect a gas station at the corner of our neighborhood so it's hard to listen to The Comebacks because this is not flippant to us this is our neighborhood this is an a agriculturally zoned residentially zoned area with a family we care about people in this neighborhood we're not mad at the oconor we're not frustrated because they're in need we're frustrated because boy anybody can walk in and make a flip of a change and people are frustrated it seems that we stood up and said we don't want this we don't want a variance change because it truly affects the neighborhood it affects people in this town we've heard a lot about traffic we haven't heard heard nearly enough about the health in my opinion I work in healthare it makes me shake inside when we think about what could potentially be happening here well we don't know yet because we don't go through the plans yet until the variance happens but once that's settled then we can roll out the rest of it and question it he's not going to buy this if this gas station isn't allowed who here would pick blueberries at a gas station I just it's it's putting lipstick on a pig it is not appropriate it is a neighborhood setting it is a Rural Street we've talked about that a few times forget about the traffic think about our health think about the happiness of the people in your community that is what we're asking you to do a variance is very powerful and we leave it up to you to make that [Applause] decision just make sure everybody's spoken does everybody who's who wants to speak at least have gone up once in all right Mr chair I only need about 30 seconds this goes to uh comment no I just want to make sure any no that's why that's why I waited so fast we'll give you that was that was great so Jerry kazanin 29 Elizabeth road again uh two people prior uh spoke about maximizing profit in the petition the petitioner cites the Wolfman case and the Wolfman case was distinguished uh by the Massachusetts land Court in gine versus consoli I can provide the citation later if you want and that uh let's see Massachusetts land Court ruled that the applicant quote failed to submit sufficient evidence at trial sub quote where the developer failed to link the requested variants to a section 10 hardship and left the appeals court with the impression that he merely sought to maximize his profit something to something that does not constitute substantial hardship under General Law chapter 40a section 10 so I think you know as this being a quasi judicial body that Massachusetts land Court ruling is pretty directive and and instructive thank you else sure you want I'll give it you a minute up you heard you heard the board's heard a lot um you don't really need to hear a lot from me no you gotta go we might be a quasi judicial but we're not again attorney aini for the DAR Carlo folks um you know folks I I got to tell you I I'll end this the way I started it um this project does not make sense for this intersection doesn't make sense for this neighborhood doesn't make sense from what you've heard from this great body of people I do a lot of land use and I tell you it's been a number of years since I've seen this kind of turnout that's ste's volume about how it's going to impact this community right so I'll close with this um back when they looked at this in 1972 um the Mass Department of Community Affairs and the DACA report said the following about use variances in part it is a use variance which is the greatest source of danger to the Integrity of zoning of the zoning process while at the same time being the most most difficult to justify legal and then all the lawyers in the room will know Professor babowski um in his treat us on land use who said use variances at least since the adoption of mon zoning are greatly disfavored and the reason for that is it's an abreg from zoning they're asking you for an abreg from zoning there's a reason why this town set zoning this way and you hear about things on the other side of town well the gas station on the other side of town for a purpose because when the zoning was drafted the agricultural Zone was established and now they're saying forget about it right and you know the cases that are numerous talk about one thing no one has a right to a variance that's all I have just let you know uh in my opinion it is a very very very high standard in order to Grant the Vance if if you read what it necessary it's very difficult and it's very difficult for a purpose because the town has set when they made their plan on how things are zoned so they presented their case on why it should be allowed and a lot of you and very I was very impressed with the amount of research and knowledge and professionalism that you delivered a great deal of information why you believe it should be denied uh so the next step in this process is no one else in the public is going to come forward then we're going to make a motion to close the public hearing once we close the public hearing that's it we can't hear from the public it goes to the board it goes to to discussion we speak we can speak to them we can ask questions but there's no please no yelling out you guys I gotta say it's been a great great great audience no really thank you because it's uh it's been very respectful Jerry you you spoke so fast it was awesome um no but you know that's you know that's the stuff that we know we we really appreciate everybody coming out it's it's important and that's and that and like I wanted everybody to understand the three of us it is our neighbor when people talk about going up and down west west elm West Maine we live there he lives almost D so we get it and so you know sorry you seemed was being flipping but some of the things that people were saying with just throwing stuff out and I just wanted to just clarify that some of these things can't happen and to his point about the variance that that that it is a very very high standard and and this could happen you know a couple other times or whatever happens but usually it's just people asking for three feet so they can put a deck on the back of their house that's what we're usually dealing with gentleman wants to speak yes hello my name is is uh Gary Haynes I live at two Sunset Drive in Milbury Mass I'm speaking I'm speaking on behalf of my mother Janice Haynes at 280 West Main Street in hopkington Mass right next door to where this gas station Country Store can I speak sure work for you guys for years I appreciated all the time I spent over there working for them um I want to bring up a couple things A J with especially in consideration to the water storage facility right across from this gas station now this gentleman the civil engineer you're gonna have to put a fire suppression system here yeah you have um could you ask this gentleman if he's going to have to put a fire suppression system in his gas station ask questions of who has been a taxpayer here for 50 years as a non-resident you don't have the right so and then and then if I may but getting again that's that would be the fire department I understand but it might help this board you may not have the infrastructure to sustain what they need you can ask them but through us what is it what question do you have I'm just curious if the said developer knows what the water pressure is at the bottom of that storage tank if they were to have a massive fire on the property yeah sure but what if the fire department had to come and put out a fire 4,000 50 or 60,000 gallons worth of fuel is the same as a wood structure okay good enough that's fine um so I I've noticed on their I guess um conceptual drawings a secondary entrance just adjacent to Janice haynes's driveway what would be your plans what would be their plans on getting tanker trucks in and out of the grounds without driving over private property to do so it sure does but you guys are the first step okay no problem if it goes the planning Bo sure okay all right um than guys see how so at this point I make a motion to close the public hearing oh do you I want to include everybody I don't want anybody feel left out Vincent corini at for Barber Road um the lawyer over here made a point but my simple way of thinking is if I can summarize what he said in my way of thinking is not changing and as you pointed out anything once it's granted can become whatever it is they can once it once it's granted to uh allow the variant to go commercial they can build anything they want not anything it still within confines of what they're the uncertainty and what we limited is get it let me just because I want to make sure because I think I may have misspoke a little bit or you know just going to gentleman over there things so they're limited to they're asking for a filling station in a store so it have to be an auxiliary use to those things if that if the variance was granted for that particular purpose then it'd have to be some s a different type of store you know a different type of filling station it' have to be related to those and they'd have to get approval again to further it so I view it still as a lot more uncertainty when it is granted as opposed to agricultural or residential we know what you get with that when it's granted anybody can you can sell it and somebody else can come before to find another use and there's so many other uses in commercially Zed properties therefore that's detrimental to the abuts uh once you grant that ability that uncertainty is just does alone they would also need to use variants again y so it would be it would be all over again yeah no yes wa I just suggest that if you were going to consider the variant that you conditioned the variant for exactly what we talked about so they wouldn't have to have any concern that it was anything other and that it would have to be you could ask for an acceptable acceptable fiscal impact statement you could ask for us to do traffic studies you could everyone seems to be concerned that the planning board or that the Conservation Commission or that the fire department or that the whatever board is not going to take action on things so if the board felt more comfortable conditioning the variant to things that you've heard here if they're scared of tanks that are in the ground which by the way don't leak 80% of the time anymore uh the old single wall tanks were problems there were double and triple wall tanks today and they also put tanks out of the ground today you can also get tanks where you build a a big cement revetment and you can put the tanks inside of them uh the closest one to us is down by Walnut on 126 there um but you could make IAL upon anything if it made it more comfortable sir F and 11 bber Road I mean I I think Mr me seems like a man of his word and I think he said earlier in the meeting that if thousands of people don't want this gas station then he won't build it I think we've shown that thousands of people don't want the gas station anybody else in the public okay plumber I live at 295 West Main Street I've lived there for 40 years and um what is the allotted amount of time for the okan to show that they cannot sell this property as residential property and then seek this Vari it's only been since May of last year that they closed their business and there was a house on that property that was torn down at one time that was across from the water tower so how much time do we give somebody to sell their property like uh Andrew Amado had stated it took them many years to take uh to sell their property I ask it's only been one year since um Allan and Kathy closed shot and um the data they didn't show the data the realators or anything like that coming in ask board member Sean do you have a thought about what you would have been satisfied with as far as standard as as an amount of time per se however um in my opinion there hasn't been sufficient evidence presented that there's been rejection of of any offer or no offers on that property that's what I was thinking as well I at this point in my again in my opinion there's no evidence in front of me to indicate that there's a financial margin an opinion from a a realtor a brokerage something that said Hey in my opinion this is the value of the house it's doesn't have much value as a residential for ex and there was little or no offers I think what Sean was talking about was something tangible that said hey we tried it was on the market we listed it and it's it doesn't really not viable as a a prop and that is my that was my question because at one time there was a house on this twil tower that everybody says it's bad so I think that something like that I think talking about where you know MLS listing it was on the market for x amount of days type of thing um I think that's what Jerry kind of referenced to as well U that it showed a good faith effort to try to sell it and because of a lack of ability to sell it a hardship is created that type of thing so it only goes again that doesn't mean it's the fun if that happens then we're going to Grant the variance but it's part of what Sean uh addressed in the very beginning the questions he had in the very beginning and I think a lot of people by their reaction seem to support that and I just wanted to highlight that but one of the other things I want to point out we keep comparing it to the sale of the Amato Farm the Amato Farm was a very large parcel of land it wasn't just the little it wasn't just the the little store that was in the front that became that became that whole condo development that's partly in Hopkinson and partly in Upton so that was that's why you know when you're talking about selling selling tons and tons of I'm just highlighting that it does take time to sell but but but your point but your point what that what that timing is you know if you know or if they or or if they they have any any evidence or numbers as to show us that then then then what we can we can ask but part of the findings yes that we base our decisions on than thank you got to come up you were just hiding back there okay uh Bob B 60 West down street uh two years ago according to patch.com uh 85 real team uh went to the Milford zoning board of appeals uh to buy the property with the old Alamo restaurant was or the building is still there in 109 uh for a new gas station uh and a car wash so let's say the variance comes through at um at 290 uh West Main Street what is to prevent uh 85 realy um doing a lot of business selling a lot of gas moving a lot of food to say you know the the Connor's property right next to it we're going to buy them out we're going to offer them some money and put our car wash right there because a car wash is I'm sure you know is a great business to have with a gas station otherwise you wouldn't try to put both businesses on in in the same property so what would prevent that happening going to the Zoning Board of appeal saying you guys gave me the variance on the on on the corner lot why can't I have a variance on this Lot C washes only oh actually not even allowed downtown anymore Town town meeting passed that no car wash is allowed in Hopkinson at this point okay so it wouldn't be a variant thing that is not allowed in Hopkinson okay but what would prevent the applicant from buying the the OK Conor's house where the houses and and expanding that business again they would have to they would have to come back here again because that that's still that that's a residential parcel again but again it's turning a residential neighborhood into a commercial neighborhood with houses all around and it just does not fit thank you thank you anybody else in the public all right I make a motion to close the public hearing any discussion on the motion should we do a roll call or we do roll call in person okay all those in favor say I any opposed any extensions the public hearing is closed okay so want to continue the uh make a motion to continue the hearing 1023 the next available meetings are 11:13 or 1120 are you guys available John are we gonna do this live yeah I think we should do it live again yes because they cut they restarted the clock day yeah 1113 so folks we're going to continue the hearing uh to 11:13 that's our next available date the other one's already booked up so uh we'll try and I'll talk to John try and get it here again um or whatever space public hearing so we'll have enough space for everybody um but at that point the public hearing portion of it's closed so it'll just be just deliberation just deliberation and questions to um the applicant but but to that again I'd really like to thank everybody for coming out it was the decorum was wonderful really appreciate it thank you very much for the comment really it helps us with the decisions all right so have to fill this out oh no we didn't I make a mo okay so made a motion to continue I a second I a second second okay okay uh all right so we have a we have a motion in a second to continue to uh 1113 second made the motion Jim second second okay any discussion on the motion no hearing none all those in favor I any opposed any extensions motion passes 1113 make a motion to close uh yeah I'd like to make a motion to close second think it's kind of common any discussion on the motion to no to adjourn motion to adjourn application journ adjourn yes all those all those in favor I any opposed extensions we adjourned