e e e e and uh if you're out set we're good to go um so we'll call the meeting to order for June 18th 2024 2024 uh this meeting is on the Hopkinson select board this meeting of the Hopkinson select board is being held both in person and remote using the video conference platform Zoom all members participating in the meeting are present in the meeting room except one the public has the option to of attending in person here at town hall or via zoom using the link posted in this meeting's agenda this meeting is being recorded if we could begin with a Pledge of Allegiance please pledge to the flag of the United States of America to the stand indivisible andice for all thank you okay item number two on the agenda this evening we have a full agenda by the way folks as I'm sure you all saw we're going right up until 9:00 so we'll try to keep it moving as best we can uh a lot of good things to cover uh item number two two is public forum residents are invited to share ideas opinions or ask questions regarding town government do we have anyone here this evening please hi my name is Beth Malloy 190 Lumber Street hi Beth I know that you guys will be deciding on the horribles parade tonight and I was talking to Ken and I said you know it being America the Beautiful perhaps it could be just a 4th of July parade that it could be just a Fourth of July parade um because the horribles parade can um poke fun at your neighbors and we've had an awful lot of um interesting things happening in our town in the last couple of years and I would hate to see anybody's family or people hurt by some of these floats and that's my my biggest concern so maybe if we just get rid of the it being a horrible spray and just make it a Fourth of July parade and I'm not new to town so you can't say oh she's new been here half my life so you know um it's just a feeling I have because of the tension in the town right now so I hope you take that into consideration all right thanks thank you anybody else yes sir name and address please Ken Weiss Manel 145 Ash Street the parade permit uh is on the uh agenda for tonight I was pleased to see the positive com comments from the uh police fire and DPW I'd like to thank Dan McIntyre who's providing the trophies for the parade the parade is open to all it's a wonderful opportunity to express your first amendment opport OPP unities we have three rules of the parade that I've mentioned the last couple times I've been here one no hate speech no obscenities and no water balloons uh We Gather at the Town common at 11:30 parade will kick off at noon so we're looking forward to seeing everyone um and changing topics I support forming a DPW advisory committee besides being elected as water and sewer commissioner in town DPW commissioner I'm serving my third term on the Water Resources committee that is needed to approve any connection to the MW I worry when I hear Town manager reports that the design is 30% complete when the town and our Consultants have not sat down with the WC Water Resources Commission staff to figure out what information is needed to be submitted it's a very long and complicated approval process from this point on we would be doing very fast if we got to the point where the commission was ready to start its statutory uh approval process which is 90 days it typically at this point it takes over two years to get to where we need to get before we make any decisions so how do you know what you're designing if you don't know how much water you're going to be allowed to or convey or whether or not our current sources are determined to be uh viable sources I mean that's not our opinion but we have to persuade them if we want to get rid of a well or our connection with well Ashland as to why that is an viable Source in the future and why that should get changed the probability of getting $2.7 million or million gallons a day out of the WRC is very slim let's put it that way so it's 2 years to go there's a lot of information that needs to be provided uh I'm talking to staff at the at the commi commission uh I was surprised that we aren't a lot further along in that conversation thank you thank you anybody else I could please Jim marbley 10 ledg Stone Drive um in support of the horribles parade uh I think it's an opportunity for us to uh since co uh get back to a little bit of normaly in town with with the parade uh it's something we've done uh for for many many years as I think all of you are aware uh it's not just a hopkington thing it's it's throughout certainly New England um and uh I think it's an opportunity for for us to maybe not take ourselves quite so seriously um you know with with some of our town politics so we did put out guidelines or we will put out guidelines and we'll be strict and and adhering to those and again I think it's an opportunity for us to to take a step forward as a town thank you you please um hi I'm Amy Groves oops to College Street um I am the chair of the Hopkinson Democratic town Comm committee but speaking on my own behalf um if we want to have a fun parade for everybody make everybody happy um keep having a parade let's let's have a July 4th parade people want to dress up funny that's fine too um the idea that this is going to calm things down and make people happier seems a little odd to me because the Republican Town committee is sponsoring it I think the parks department asked them if they would also invite us if we wanted to sponsor it and I didn't get an invitation so it does seem like a partisan Le thing which seems odd to me um I didn't plan on speaking about this tonight but just happened to walk in honestly um let's have a fun a fun kind of thing let's let the kids dress up let's let everybody dress up if they want to but it really should be a July 4th kind of thing and it should be done by the whole town maybe next year let's get everybody involved something like that thank you thank you thank you anybody else can J can I answer that so we can't get into a back and forth gym uh that wouldn't be appropriate so just let us we'll do our thing here okay sorry about that anybody else all right everybody good with that we'll move on from public forum to item number three which is the consent agenda the consent agenda contains three items of the minutes from the May 21st 2024 meeting uh the parade permit application for the horribles parade that was just mentioned here uh petitioners are here and then item three accepting a gift the select board will consider accepting a donation of $100 from the hopkington Democratic town committee to the public library to be used for the purchase of books on anti-racism would anyone like to break any of these three items out I would and that would be that would be the parade permit okay we'll break that one out anything else to be broken out okay with that the chair will entertain a motion to approve the consent AG agenda for items A and C the minutes and accepting of the gift so Mo there a second second any discussion on the motion all those in favor I any opposed okay items A and C have passed and we'll move now to Item B in the consent agenda the parade permit application M the front a I am not for the parade permit uh when I first came to town I loved it but they stuck to issues and issues only when we had the revaluation it was an ouse worth a million dollars on a truck and and when we got cable and we decided not to have any porno stations it was a a Playboy bunny on a truck or something and and they were funny and when when people did funny things and they were used but people did it first but I have had a lot of people people tell me they've been hurt by things that have been inuendo and things that have been done on some of the floats and vehicles and things that have singled out individuals without actually singling them out but enough so you knew who they were and I really um you know if we're going to continue something like this we have to stick to issues and we can't bring in any personalities I I think that just defeats the purpose Pur and I came from another town I actually won a harble spray in that town years ago and they've stopped because they said it got away from being funny and in your window and it got into personality and people got hurt and I have already had people call me and tell me that that is what has happened to them and so I I would really like to see I mean I go to the cape in the summer and they have a a parade and it's all the kids and the wheel you know baby carriages and the and the bicycles and and they all get dressed up and and they have a parade like that and I I'd much rather see that than than the horribles parade I'm sorry but that's just how I feel about it Mr Man anything um on this speak later sure sure I'm gathering some information Amy yeah I guess um we haven't done this for since 2019 I think is when I looked it up and I just wanted to make sure that everything is in order I I I share Mary Joe's concerns too that there'll be personal attacks and and appreciate their the theme is America the Beautiful and um and they're going to um not allow profanity um so that's great uh but anyway so the insurance is covered and the police detail will be paid for and everything that the permitting team wants yes there won't be is that okay I had a question about the insurance they're under Pats and re Insurance yes if the town is a co-p of an event is covered by Town Insurance okay because I mean even Poots everybody there has to have their own insurance and and the Farm Stand and everything has to their own it's not and this is the first time I've heard of the Town partnering with somebody and and paying for their insurance yeah poot is not a town event but for example the um the pride parade is sponsored in part by the town and that is covered okay Amy um let's see I think that is it so everything will be covered and will parks and staff be there too to assist and make sure everything's under control no okay yeah um so we're planning on you know Staffing up the event so I don't have a head onks so to be clear for those that are not in the room the parks and direct directors in the back of the room shaking his head know that parks and wreck will not be involved in the parade but I think the answer to your question hrtc chair said they going to provide some people whatever okay is that a fair statement for everybody I'm sorry I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth but we can't I don't want to get into too much back and forth either go ahead yeah I just want to make sure we answer the question yeah you good okay great hang on one sec please Jo um so kind of like Amy's thought my first like my understanding of this is when we approve these permits for parades and stuff we want to make sure you know police fire DPW signed off on that they've all endorsed it correct correct okay so then from there like I I agree with what has been talked about right like nothing should be personal attacks I liked I think Mr Weiss manle described the rules you know no hate speech obscenities water balloons um because this should be no personal attacks but beyond that how is it in our like jurisdiction to like dictate what content goes out there because it it kind of seems like it's stepping on top of free speech a little bit because I haven't heard of anything that's going to be in there so I'm just not sure how we handle that we have options well I'd love to no no but I'd love to hear specifically because we're approving like a permit so inside we can have a kids parade we can have a Fourth of July parade we can have a a lot of other things we don't have to but if tear people down and talk about people no make sure it's just issues yeah again I'm not supporting tearing people down at all no personal attacks but I'm just not sure how we censor censor content from our from our position in impr we're sponsoring the parade and we're paying for the insurance and and all of that then we should have saying what kind of content is in it Mr Mayor uh I I'm honestly learning of The Vibes on both sides and I do have a couple of questions I think Amy asked the question I wasn't clear so the park andri and the town is sponsoring through the through cover covering the insurance is that correct that's correct so we are involved um in providing the support and the foundational infrastructure for the period and RTC is organizing it or sponsoring for kind of overseeing it is that the right assumption okay so one question I I agree with all that's been said and uh I am for free speech and certainly 4th of July is something for everyone um uh in the nation in the town and great day to celebrate uh but hearing some of the uh public comments I wanted to ask how would you handle you know certain tensions should their arise or certain personal I think Joe mentioned there shouldn't be personal uh attacks but what would be the governance model providing the freedom of speech is of course um you know what we all support but I'm not clear on that I know you mentioned about uh profanity and um couple other things can you elaborate on that or do we know that guys please join us at the table as the applicants now and not during public comment uh and I think we can do it this way a little bit better everyone can hear you Mr had a couple questions first of all this is not the first year that the town provided insurance for this Parade When the mcintyres organized it when the Holdens organized it when there was a requirement to have insurance they partnered with parks and W so this is not the first time it's always been kind of that way since there was an insurance requirement at the parade um let's see the other question was how do we how do we police it well if there's a we have three three judges and it parade gets started off and people get a number to get get going on it you don't get you don't get to get in line to get on the parade if you have obscenities or hate speech on on your float and uh that's how it gets I'll say policed can I ask a question through the CH sure can would you consider adding to your guidelines no personal attacks the people could attack issues but not people I know you can't control which would just be a guideline but that's going to be that's that's really hard to I'm I'm going to say hard to enforce per se but you know uh you know to in order to you know you're talking to one of the judges here I'm not going to be a judge uh we have a member of hcam and also uh uh hot news to be judges and you know I'm just hoping that you know they will award prizes correctly uh you know uh it's you know I I i' I've been a subject to the on the Democratic town committee float at least three or four times I remember Mr Pratt and I were on the back of a town meeting one making fun of the fact that uh Joe Pratt and I spoke a little bit a lot at one of the Town meetings back of the day but uh you know Mr man sorry you were still yeah I think I got a lot of good answers but I'm not very clear so I'll get to it as I heard from the public comments and I attended one I enjoyed it uh unfortunately or fortunately I take advantage of the holidays during this time so I um go out with my family and don't get to attend all the time but U the question or the concerns I heard was it may create tension and it may given you know some of the um situation in town would could it be exploited to divide or create far their um tension among the residents and it's very hard to govern that way and again it's a balancing act we want to make sure we have the freedom of speech but at the same time as Town leaders we would be of course um for harmony for building unity and having an event that everyone enjoys nobody gets H or Fields heart and it's a joyous joyful event not a you know event that can be exploited and you may not or of course you don't mean it or want it to be but the question is how do we ensure that I think that you're right it's it's an event that people have fun with it's called you know political satire and what we can do to police said you know again I think we have clear guidelines um you know and and and people people will have fun with with other folks and then my experience has been people move on so you know I think we're at something that we've always done and we're trying to reinstate and we sort of were asked to pick this up and run with it as the hrtc and and that's when we we got involved with it again a year ago um and by the way nobody approached me to to participate in it as well um so I think it's it's something that again we should embrace as a community we've done it in the past uh we're not the only community in the state or or or New England that does it um and and it's an opportunity to bring bring back a little bit of a historical you know spin to to our community what's up so a couple of thoughts from my vantage point one I've been on some of those floats not physically but I've been abused on some of those floats in the past um I'm not here generally on the 4th of July I'm on the cape uh with my family and I'm looking forward to that um so uh you know it happens I got over it uh but I think back to what was going on in South Boston for years and years uh with the St Patrick's Day parade and the court battles and the Free Speech issues and all went into that and the division that caused in the city of Boston for a long long time I'd hate to see that play out here so we can call it whatever we want but once we have a parade sanctioned whatever people pull up in in their floats they can go so calling it a horribles parade is encouraging a certain approach perhaps but calling a parade or or or voting a parade creates the opportunity for people to exercise their free speech and they're going to dress me up like they did one time and I look ridiculous okay but that's what they can do um so if we get into the the business of trying to regulate people's expression of thought uh I think we're opening up a huge can of worms for the community uh and I just don't think given all that we've seen at least in my lifetime in Massachusetts with parades uh the division it can cause until they found a solution that works and frankly just open it up to everybody which is what we're talking about um it was a big problem so I hear your concerns and I've been on those floats and I get it but at the end of the day I do believe this is a free speech issue and I do believe that if we say no for that reason we open ourselves up to a problem and I think we've had enough problems in town and we got enough engagement with the legal staff right now that I would encourage us if we want change the name of it I'm okay with that because it's going to be a parade and the parade will be what the parade will be but we can't say to folks you can go and you can't I like your message I don't like yours I think that's wrong that's not that's an American in my view so with that what's the board want to do I would move to approve the permit open to your suggestions of um changing the name of people people feel the need but I don't want to censor Free Speech okay there's a motion on the table to approve the pr permit is submitted is there anybody going to second that motion to the chair you mentioned about the name so are we also uh proposing or asking the name change or what are we doing with that is that in your motion Joe that was not in there so we have that motion right now maybe we can come back to that in a second but the motion right now is to approve it as submitted correct yeah but I'm open to suggestions um do we want to amend it uh for the name I because we heard and we are also talking about it something El here I don't know if we have the right to change the name if the applicant doesn't want to right um yeah um I don't know I I do tend to think that because they meet all the require have the insurance and the detail and the similar how it was done in 2019 with in part partnership with Parkson rag I do think that we probably need to approve it but we I think we've all expressed our reservations of how it might go this year so that be a second I guess so okay so we have a motion and a second on the table to approve it as submitted any further discussion on the motion on the table well can we give our strong guidance I know they don't have to that we really would hope that they would um try to strust the positive theme which I know they have tried to do the America beautiful and um you know avoiding the personal taxs be OB spe profanities even though I don't think you can really stop that if it happens anyway I appreciate the the emphasis on the positivity if possible I would Echo that the chair I think the goal is um you know to be positive and celebrate and have some sat high but making sure it's uh and we all know what that would mean uh within the construct and you already have a governance model or policing whatever you call it but with the rules that you have and um every parot has some rules right it's not um but um definitely for Freedom uh of speech and celebration and bringing the community together so good luck to you I would approve any further comments on the motion on the table all those in favor please say I I I any opposed okay is unanimous and so passes the parade P permit has been approved thank you all item number four change of manager section 15 retail wine and Malt Liquor alcohol WT malt alcohol license alltown fresh 92 West Main Street is the applicant here by chance do we need the applicant here someone's hand is raised raised on Zoom is it do we know I'm sorry someone's hand us raised on Zoom I don't know if they're the app oh okay there we go thank you that Infamous Zoom is the applicant for alltown fresh on Zoom yes uh good evening Mr chairman hopefully you can hear me this is uh attorney for Global Montella group John aaya um I was told that the manager himself Matthew Pierce might be joining as well uh but if he's not I can certainly give a uh summary of what we're proposing okay if you would please um so this is the alltown fresh at 92 West Main Street um it's just simply a change of manager of record um in connection with that alcohol license just briefly by way of experience uh Mr Pierce has been with global Montel for the past uh almost five years he does have experience in the um alcohol industry he previously worked at the alltown fresh in Plymouth which also holds a wi and malt license um he is familiar with the rules and regulations of the board the abcc and the laws of the Commonwealth as it pertains to sale and service of alcohol he is tip certified uh as well as um all of the other staff members handling alcohol uh at the store is also tip certified um so there's no operational changes no ownership changes everything else is remaining the same so this is simply a request for the change of manager on the alcohol license thank you Mr Manon um I'm I'm fine with it I looked at it and looks like everything is in order so I'm good with it okay all all of the documentation like it was fine and in order and I don't see any problem with the change of management no questions or concerns um packet information look good I didn't see the permitting team comments were there any adverse comments from stuff we typically don't do permitting team comments for the change of man okay has there been any violations of the license to date that we know of I don't believe so the attorney can clarify as well not this um actually all across the board there uh all the licenses held by global Montella has no history of violations thank you chair I'll entertain a motion for the change of manager at 92 West Main Street I moveed to approve the change of manager for alltown fresh to Matthew Pierce second any further discussion all those in favor please say I I any opposed unanimous and so approved all set sir thank you very much thank you I appreciate your time have a good night have a good night uh hiring process update why don't we begin with the uh Deputy police chief uh Jessica is here great and then uh we'll ta tackle the town manager uh M can take a quick break Jessica please so we are at a point um after having had the um Assessment Center um to just schedule the interviews with the select board okay and that is on the deputy police chief correct correct all right um so tackling this one first uh where is the board in terms of their thoughts on next steps we'll start with Mrs Ritter Bush so um I assume like last time we'll have an opportunity to review um discipline records of any applicants which we did we went to the police station did that last time or finalist I mean right okay yeah and then do we know approximately when they would come before the board when they would be before the well we we'd have to establish a date that we want to do the interviews and and schedule a date for the review okay the assessment part is done correct assessment part is done okay we also do have an outside candidate so clearly we wouldn't have that piece for the outside candidate let's go back and forth on this one Mr Man um I'll wait for my questions okay the friend how many applicants do we have or are we expecting um I was asked to bring three to the board the top three to the board um there were four there were four that um went through the assessment center and it's scored so there is a top three based on the assessment so you're bringing three before the board so that would be two internal and one external is that correct there three all internal or wouldn't be any other way I guess we haven't disclosed yet okay fair enough okay any other questions sending a date is is difficult thing I think going to be yeah uh Mr Clark yeah I I mean I I'm still trying to get like my feet underneath me with all this you know we talked about kind of priorities the last couple months I think you know our next conversation with the town manager you know is our immediate priority um and understanding that we haven't released who the candidates are um you know I I don't see a rush to do this I'd like to know if we could actually slow this down I know we just made a promotion in the department what was that two months ago um and I know at the time we had I believe three internal candidates it was a split decision um I'd like to give a little time and see how how the Department's doing in a couple months maybe reevaluate get get a better temperature of it I know that would help me personally I know the rest of you guys have been more involved in this but um that's just my take right now prioritize the town manager and then Circle back around Chief Bennett would you be so kind and join us to discuss this for a sec so we're talking about the deputy chief position obviously as you know u m frer made a comment about scheduling a date for interviews and things could be difficult U Mr Clark is suggesting that we perhaps slow it down and kind of give it a little time and let us all get our heads around a lot of things that have gone on here in the last you know several months obviously what are your thoughts on kind of where we are and what we might or might not do so um Lieutenant van ralton was promoted as you said a couple months ago uh he's doing a fantastic job he uh was doing much of the work already but now with the actual assignment as Lieutenant he is second in command in the organization we also have moved forward with the sergeant process to prepare for promotions of the sergeants uh there was an exam given and we have two candidates that can move on to the interview process so as we all know making promotions is a big part of morale and building morale and people have worked towards this um however I do understand Mr Clark's concern be nice for uh for me to be able to come back and showcase the Lieutenant's accomplishments so I guess it's uh I'm at your will I can we can move forward with it we'll make time or um if you if you have some reservations I want to have some time to take a look and if you wanted to I could sit down and we could talk about future structure and what the buildout will look like at uh full staff because there are some pieces that will move in the future I'd love to have a more comprehensive plan that would be very helpful Chief sure um so yeah that would be great when you say more comprehensive plan great well he just alluded to you talked about kind of your plans right and it kind of seemed like a longer term view of the department that to me is kind of critical to decision- making right and I'd expect you to be doing that so to know that you have a plan you know whether it's the next 6 12 18 months I'd love to hear kind of what your view of the department looks like that's that's how I interpreted what you just said in terms of how we staff it and so forth yeah I mean because we look for the chief's recommendation on a lot of these things right he's in the department he leads the department so if he's got a plan I that would be helpful to hear it and how that plays into promotions internal how we view things externally of course right so that's that would be very helpful the chief has come and presented that to us and had slides and we've gone over it in detail within the last year but you were not here um so we could do that again so everyone new people could um get up to speed I guess yeah if I need to get up to speed personally like that's fine I just know you know both you had both the lieutenant and the deputy position open for a while right so it's you say the plan was has been presented for over a year not a lot of movement um like I'd love to know things like like what like you know what went behind the decision for the lieutenant position to be filled prior to the deputy chief one you know those are types of things that I'm trying to just wrap my head around Chief I'd happy be be more than happy to meet with you okay at the earliest convenience perfect Tru the chair I appreciate all the comments and questions but I think we it's easy to catch up and help you ramp up uh with the context and what the chief has proposed how the hiring um process is going uh but I didn't understand you know why we would need to slow down this is uh an important position and has been out there for a while and we have been following due process and the hiring process seems to be maturing enough to get to the final stage do you have any particular concern about that or it's not as much a concern right it's because I agree with you like I I don't want to just come in and hit the brakes on things if it if it's possible to speed things up that's always a good idea but you just alluded to it how important of a process this is it's been open for over a year right so like I'm just I know I know it's on me for just catching up now recently um and I'll do that as quickly as possible but if we've waited over a year is a couple more months or weeks what like whatever that that delay is you know that's that's kind of my thought process and the wait would be for you to catch up or what would be the kind of tial that okay we have waited and and now we can move again I mean I'm open to suggestions I know that I can sit down with the chief like he alluded to and I can get caught up pretty quickly so I'm not saying like you know completely hit the brakes on this but just a little bit of time as opposed to setting a date tonight for interviews okay is that fair and and I'm looking for feedback too from the rest of you you guys are more in this than I am okay Mr the frer this is a a a really difficult issue and we have been working on it for quite a long time and we have taken an awful lot of criticism from the public for not having filled it earlier and now and because of procedure and and nailing down procedure and getting everything right and then going out and getting a company to help us uh it has taken a lot longer than than even we thought it would and um it it's just that we have come to a point where it's time no and and Mary Joe I can completely appreciate that you know the public can put all the the blames for future delays on me it's just like you said this is an important decision and I don't want to just jump into it not be educated on everything that's gone on so again I will get up to speed as quickly as possible but I'm just trying to be diligent about this I'm not saying you guys did anything wrong in the process just checking my bases Chief you mentioned that um the lieutenant currently is second in command is that correct yes sir and that's going well yes it is okay and how long he's been in the role how long in that particular second in command position you asked me the date I don't know a couple months couple months couple months I'm in sales Round yeah I know I'm going to say he was effectively second command even before that he was effectively second in command even before that because we didn't have a lieutenant either so he's actually been when the chief has gone on vacation he's had to take over even before he was Lieutenant when we hire or promote fair enough when we hire or promote do we have a timeline like that we look at the individuals and see how they're doing in whatever role they're feeling whether it be a town manager or a deputy chief or the chief or whomever is there a timeline that's you know in my business we call it the probationary period not a negative term but just like we're just going to check it all out you check us out we check you out like are we is that a thing with this position in hopkington it's not a stipulation sorry it's not a stipulation for prior to the go ahead I'm sorry promotion in the promotion process that's laid out in the policy it's not a stipulation for length of time to be in that role as like Lieutenant so my understanding is that the employee handbook wouldn't preclude the deputy from being promoted from Lieutenant because of some length of time there is a period of time evaluation the six-month Mark for where you kind of connect with them to talk to them you do we don't have at the town of hackington we don't have a policy where somebody has to be in a position for a certain length of time to be considered for promotion so somebody could go into a role and then go into another role within a couple of months whatever but you're saying Chief there's a what's the six-month piece is some go ahead is there there's some component about for new employees because they don't get a performance review is the introductory period yes to if they're successful in that role it's a it's an odd one for me to get my head around having done this for four years in the private world you take a job and they look at you and say okay young whipper snapper over there you're in that job for a couple years don't go looking for your next job six months from now inside the company because we need you to do what we've asked you to do for a while and get up to speed and get everyone else up to speed around you and so on so to be kind of moving quickly like this I don't know if I share the same kind of quickness in terms of what you're thinking about but in my mind there's there's just there's been so much going on in the department for the last year um we say we want to slow it down um and while we might get some some resident feedback I call it right or citizen feedback in some ways I think citizens want us to slow it down get it right and make sure that we get it right this time and not sort of feel rushed or compelled because of all the other things that have gone on is there pressure on us now to make this decision because of everything else well that's not the right reason to fill this position in my opinion like I think what's gone on has gone on but we have to be able to divorce the two and not feel that pressure um to make the good the right and best long-term decision for the town going forward the deputy chief role you know uh basically line somebody up to be the chief someday that's job and are we are we pushing our foot on the gas here and setting something up that we're still not comfortable with and I don't think the town is comfortable right now making a decision around our Police Department until we sort of let the dust settle a little bit and maybe have some time to think it through further that's that's where my gut is coming from on this as I think about the general will and you know what I hear out in the street and so forth the chair I I I hear you and I certainly agree that this is a critical one it's the second in command who will you know one day become potentially the chief or has the potential to become the chief but two things I'm not clear as I hear uh cuz when we started the process we actually heard also from the residents and everyone that we are um we need this position in critical position and we need to hire it and I don't think there was any you know gas pedaling in terms of speeding it up or it's been a year it was more about the process and if you look at or hear back the chief's um plan at the time it was more he was going from building up the ranks and then moving up to the top uh position hiring because there was for some time a bit of a gap between the ranks um so wanted to make sure the foundation is laid out and then move up to the you know top position that's how it kind of worked out so hiring the surgeons hiring the um I'm sorry lieutenant and then now for the deputy chief so from that perspective it wasn't actually gas pedaling it was par plan as the chief la it out but what I would suggest since you both feel like that you may be um needing some more time to understand and com kind of process the things and also have heard some things how about we set out a time that you feel that is um sufficient for you to catch up or you know to evaluate enough and if you know there's always an open window when we all can come back and say okay maybe we don't have enough um good candidates or we don't have uh enough um justification to do it right now because all these kind of gear towards we have the justification we have the process we have the we're looking for the candidates and let's go and do it uh but I don't think it was more like expedited or gas peral and we also heard from various all many residents actually that who wanted more um um second in command or sucession plan for the police and we also directed the police chief and as well as the fire chief that for too long we didn't have a complete succession plan and succession uh people let's do that otherwise uh we see kind of risks and hols in um the very important organizations so my two SS I think if we want to push it that's fine but let's not do that kind of indefinitely um if you feel certain time that is comfortable 3 weeks 6 weeks I think we can talk about that and kind of process it that way my two sense would it be possible to get more clarification around that six-month thing that you mentioned and get us you say it was in the employee handbook or something see that actual content it is published online and we can provide maybe we could look at that and discuss that at the next meeting or the we one after that depending on when we can schedule um uh July by the way July 2nd that meeting is cancelled and moved to July 9th so maybe the 9th or the one there after uh and kick that around but I'd be curious to see what that is because that might play into some of the discussion I think we're having tonight I just want to make sure we don't do something there as well that's a little bit off what we should be considering right um so if everybody's okay with tabling it for now for a little bit and we'll look at that information and then come back to it a little more to add if that's okay go ahead um yeah I just want to do CAU not all on the morale issues like we had a lot of exits from the Department in 2021 and it's taken us some time to kind of build up our hiring which we've done but now we have a lot of brand new people who are new to the being police officers and we need to get our sergeants up so that we have you know the command structure like the chief has proposed so I certainly understand we're very busy in July we're going to be hiring a town manager um so if we need to put it off till the beginning of fall or something I I think I'm comfortable with that but I don't think we should wait too long we don't want to have people trying to a liutenant spot in a different or a deputy chief in a different town because we're not doing our promotions here when we have we have a lot of hiring done so we can start doing our promotions before you make a decision I'm sorry I'm sorry M I'm sorry we can't do that right now one sec please thank you that's that's all I had okay no I think that's that's a fair point okay all right so I think we have General consensus that we would just go ahead and table it for a little bit we'll come back to it I hear your point about the morale I think the best thing for the morale within the police department is for them to understand that the select board is behind them 100 10% and everything they do they did a great job today with the situation in downtown hopkington uh and got something under control that could have been very scary uh so kudos to them for a job well done let them know that we have their backs and we support everything they're doing thank you all right with that let's move to the next item agenda please does does the chief want to St up for this one uh the next item on the agenda yeah oh definitely we just had question yeah I must have read the agenda wrong I thought so we have the annual appointments boards committees commissions and officials are we doing the town manager update though um sorry we got to do the you got your foot on the gas so we can what would you like thank you chair Chief we're all set for right now okay okay we are on to the town manager update but we do need the chief for the two items download we do yeah he knows that Mr petran if you would please join us okay so we've moved on to the town manager uh this is a great opportunity to update everybody on what's going on in next steps uh in this process which is another very important hire for the community Jessica please so we are very excited about um Thursday night at at the library from 6:00 to 8: we're doing the meet and greet with the public um we're hoping to have a really good turnout um we have posted it in on our website we've put it on the calendar we have um alerted um the news um and we are very excited um for the public to be able to meet the candidates and give feedback um I'm planning to have a survey available um for folks at the library there'll be a QR code on Flyers that will be distributed as well as um some paper um in case people would prefer to fill out um a paper survey um and then also online because um the way I understand it it's going to be live streamed as well so um we're looking forward to that and then um that feedback will be available to the select board so then once you do your interviews you'll have the feedback from the public you'll have your interviews and then you'll also have um the packet that was already distributed to you um with the references clarifying question um when it's you say meet and greet people can drop in or they need to come for the whole thing in order to meet all four candidates they can come during any time between 6:00 and 8 and um asked questions um of the different candidates meet and greet recently that I didn't arrive exactly on time and I missed part of it so I just want to make sure I knew no it'll be more organic than that and people can circulate the um be in four different locations and um yeah sounds good thank you okay so Thursday 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. at the Hopkinson Public Library uh the four candidates will be in four different places in the building so the residents can come in and circulate as they see fit when they whenever they can get there and ideally if they could fill out one of those forms it's a agree disagree somewhat agree those typical kind of HR forms absolutely uh that would be excellent and certainly help get the feedback to the board anything else Mr Petra no you have your four candidates uh which are being announced this evening uh that are moving forward so if the board wishes to you know release the candidates at this point um I don't believe they've been released a date right so not yet so we have the four candidates uh that will be aail a for Thursday night okay Mr Manny you've been sitting and doing a ton of work on this committee subcommittee are you ready to announce the candidates you think I don't have the names with me right but are you just forget the names are you are you good with the announcement of the names I am yeah I think the committee and um John has done a wonderful job we all interviewed them and we feel comfortable moving them to the next round okay great thank you anything else you want to share before we uh no I think I'm I'm excited I think we have some really good candidates Ates and uh but it's a very important position so I think the meet and greet is going to help uh them to know us and us and the residents to interact and get some feel for it so I would encourage anyone who is interested and actually everyone uh to come join the meet and greet but um I'm excited and hoping we can move forward and um you know find our right candidate but thank you for the opportunity to speak uh probably a dumb question but I'm going to ask it anyway just to make sure are all four candidates aware that their names are going to be made public this evening and all four in agreement that that can happen it's they're in place we're all set yes the answer is yes correct okay just want to make sure no confusion Mrs R Bo anything nope NOP nothing no so Mr P if you would be so kind and please give us the names of the candidates yes uh the first is uh in alphabetical order uh Del priori uh the second is Jason Hulk the third is Elaine Lazarus and the fourth is Christopher senior so those are the four names they were chosen by the committee of six and again I want to thank the uh screening committee uh they did an excellent job in working uh through the process very professional um and was a great committee to work with uh through that but those are the four candidates they've selected to present to the select board okay great thank you very much I miss to uh yeah they'll get all yeah I'll get we get all that back to you um and you'll see it in the email as well so we'll get an email them with those names please Jessica just spell correct spelling all that unless we've already got that in the pack on Thursday it's in the packet okay got it thank you um okay great is there anything else we need to discuss this evening so we'll need to discuss maybe we can begin a discussion Thursday night you and I as to the process for July 9th so the interviews are on July 9th uh time frame timing you know as to um uh what is the board you know what's when are the board going to interview the candidates and then we can talk about questions um you know going forward as well so um you have a couple of choices we'll assist you with questions we'll give you some uh suggested questions but you'll get a chance opportunity to review and see if there's questions you want this is your interview um so we'll just uh begin and provide you know some background for you we'll work with you on that and then uh the process is that you can ask the questions you can have me ask the questions you know um you know through the interview process it goes either way uh some boards prefer to ask you know have us you know just conduct the interview with the board members certainly being able to uh uh you know follow up of questions at any point you know going through or you can separate the questions amongst the board and ask them so that's uh those are some of the options we can discuss okay we can probably figure out those Logistics the next go around exactly all right everybody good good all set all set You released the names to the public too right we had we got them last week but with the with their bios and everything right to the public uhuh this this right here was the public finding out who the candidates were oh I know but there we received like a paragraph about each one I think the public would that would be helpful for the public too sure right that's your decision as to how you that's a public document you have so okay do you guys think that would be help for the public to have a couple sentences about each candidate I would want to make sure that the candidates know that we're going to put something up there about their bio um other than their name at this point okay I'm a I'm a I'll say it 100 times in the next three years I work in the private sector we don't do any of this in public none of this so this is all really weird to me even though I've done this for 20 years I'm hyper sensitive to HR information anywhere but in a file in somebody's desk that's locked and that's how I look at it how go is to make sure the town stays within the uh the uh the legal aspects of uh moving forward post it's perfect it's very benign and you know pretty straightforward I think that would be fine but that would be great you know because I think the thing is people once they know the names will start googling and if someone has a common name they might actually find the wrong person so it's better that they know who it is MH okay okay we good the only thing I wanted to point out is just um so the public is aware um Thursday is actually supposed to be the hottest day of the week and so the library does have a policy where if a room gets too hot they close the room they don't close the library but they closed the room so we do have a backup plan to move around if we need to but okay I won't get into whether there's central air over there or not but okay thank you all right great all set thank you very much and I'll be here Thursday night to assist with the process great thank you John and Jessica you going to be there Thursday as well HR will be there it won't be me but yes can you make sure Lane comes joins us again I will absolutely all right great uh so that covers item five um item six is annual appointments boards committees commissions and officials the select board will consider annual appointments to various Town boards committees commissions and the appointment of certain Town officials this is not the only evening that we will have appointments to make this year it's a process I think has gone over a couple of meetings because you could take a whole meeting just doing this stuff um so Mrs Lazar could you walk us through item six real quick just from your perspective what we're going to do here in the next few minutes sure um in this case uh many of the applicants are the sole applicant for vacancies on boards and committees or there are uncontested seats um so um in the uh document that you've received with motions we've grouped them by um uncontested seats and then a couple of contested seats so starting in um the spring um people who are members of boards and committees automatically get emails letting them know that their terms are expiring that they need to reapply so that process has been going on for a couple of months we also issue vacancy notice um we've done that twice in the last couple of months and so have received a lot of applications so now we're starting to bring those forward to the board uh in a couple of groups um and so tonight is the first group that you'll be seeing very great a motion go ahead if you want to make let's start with a motion and then we'll go from there it' be great you want let's do I move to a point the following individuals to the boards and committees listed and the term identified excuse me James Burton a full member of the board of appeals term expires 630 2029 Alfred Rogers an at large member of the community preservation committee term expires 6:30 2027 Matthew M jeie leblan and Jeff Barnes are Conservation Commission terms to expire at 6:30 2027 Karen Kong to the cultural Council ter to expire 6:30 2027 Patrick Fagan and Hoppington historic district commission term to expire 6:30 2027 Steve levendowski as a large member of the open space preservation commission term expired 6:30 2029 David godfroy to the permanent building committee to expired 6:30 2027 Ira Steckler Karen Kong and Linda CH to the sustainable green committee terms expire 6:30 2027 Craig Nation to the Woodville historic district commission term expires 6:30 2027 and Mike whan as veterans grave officer term expires 33029 I'm happy to second but I do have some questions I'm sorry I'm happy to second that but I have a couple questions okay we have a second discussion Mrs ritterbush okay so um I thought uh Steve levendowski had also applied for CPC but that was that through open space he would be the right so because he's the open space representative he doesn't need to be appointed doesn't need to be okay great that explains that and then the sustainable green committee had sent us a letter asking us to maybe hold off on on these appointments I don't know if you'd had any correspondence with him I think the um I don't have the email in front of me but Jeff had asked that the applicants understand the time commitment and then I think um one of them didn't express interest in green Committee in their application even though they had checked the box I think so I wondered if we might remove that for discussion but approve the others okay so we have a motion on the table in a second though that would include that um I would suggest an amendment to vote eight separately so you want to separate that one is that okay from your motion so we're back which one is that again number eight number eight so we're going to separate number eight for the moment okay and now in the second you're good with your second separating that right so everybody's good with the motion on the table yep any further comments on the motion on the table set all those in favor please say I I any opposed it's unanimous and so carries except for item number eight Mrs R Bush so I didn't know if they might I don't know Jeff had asked us to hold off and make sure they understood the time commitment um I don't know if any of them are here tonight okay hi Linda CH 11 School Street um I'm up for reappointment for the sustainable green committee uh last fall we started updating our Charter based a little bit on what we had seen historical district commission do um we have a lot of we're not the only committee that faces this but we wanted to start addressing it we have a lot of turnover on the Committees because people join not really understanding what we do never having been to a meeting and not understanding the time commitment and then we run into Quorum issues where they can't show up and then we have to go through the whole appointment of process again so we updated our Charter um to reflect criteria like how much time we expect people to spend what make sure people know when the meeting is make sure they attend at least one meeting and review what we do before they actually come here for appointment we approved those changes but then we wanted to make a few more tweaks to the Charter and get it to you before we had appointments come up and the timing of that didn't work out so at our last meeting a couple weeks ago we decided to ask if you guys could wait on um not my reappointments specifically but on any new appointments until we can bring those upgraded Charter changes to you see if you'll approve them and if you do then have those people come back for appoint for for application assuming they meet those guidelines and and want to still continue so that does that make sense what I just said do you have any questions I personally would be comfortable I by the rest of board waiting until they change do their Charter changes to to to do the appointments because anybody still on the committee can continue to serve correct can they can continue right even though they've expired they can continue for now okay so Linda if I hear you correctly you would like your reappointment to take place this evening but you want to hold on IRA and Karen is that fair if that's okay because I obviously well I meet the criteria because I've been to the meetings I know how much time is involved so for that reason the proposed criteria I should say yeah Linda thank you and what you said makes sense I think I'm I'm okay with that just to understand um the other two applicants have you talked to them or are they aware or would they be surprised I don't know if they're aware um we only found out about them on Friday so they're not people who have been to our meetings ever they're not people who we we don't know that they know when we meet what we do or are familiar and as Elaine mentioned one of them um their application expressed interest in Trails committees but the Box said sustainable green committee so that was Ira that seemed almost like a mistake like maybe he checked the wrong box or we're not sure but so no those two candidates are not people who were aware of at this point I see and we are and you proposing to hold off until the charter is done I'm okay with that Mrs Lazarus any thoughts on holding off with IRA and Karen and just going for with Linda this evening uh it would be nice to find out if they're either present here or on Zoom um no one with that no one with those names is on Zoom if if they're logged in with a different name they could raise their hand um and no one's here in the room no Mr Clark any thoughts um no nothing it would seem to me um given the charter work that you folks are doing uh and the ideas of having folks attend and get a good feel for it before appointment I mean it makes sense um and I guess if we didn't have a chance to speak with these folks there's a little bit of a disadvantage there but I get it so the chain a motion to approve Linda choose to the sustainable green committee this evening for a term to expire 6:30 27 so move second we have a motion in a second for Linda only at this evening and we can come back to the others after I think a few folks continue reaching out to them to make sure they and if they do all that it's all good then bring them on back and we'll do it right but I think we want to come to you first to have our updated Charter reviewed to make sure what we're asking for makes sense yeah it makes sense to totally all right with that we have a motion a second on the table any further discussion you okay you my allies are raging you good to vote good on the mo motion for to appoint Linda okay thank you uh all those in favor please say I I any oppos okay so Linda will be re appointed the sustainable green committee and the others will table to a future date okay um I'm going to step out of the room while you do Commission on disability all right so we have the commission on disability now um Elaine we have a new person in Deborah mahaley and we have two additional people seeking reappointment Amy ritterbush and pervine Harahan uh how would the board like to proceed I'd like to nominate our reappointments Amy Rish and pine Harahan I think they have uh done a good job and I think that they will continue to I already that I think it's a new committee and they've been involved from the they have the experience now probably going to be helpful to have continue and I want to I I do want to encourage debah to please come forward for any position um you know just happens that we have two candidates that we know this position right now Mr Clark any thoughts before we do a motion um is Deborah here or on Zoom we lost our Zoom contact po can hear is anyone on Zoom Yeah by chance anyone watching Zoom Amy used to do that let me computer hearing none Mr Clark anything else yeah no nothing to add i' obviously if they were here I'd love to hear from them but no is shees otherwise Cheryl entertain a motion I move the motion to appoint um Amy rush and prain haran haran to the commission of disabil to a term expiring 6:30 2027 is there a second second any discussion on the motion all those in favor please say I I any oppose it's unanimous so carries with those on the board m r bush had stepped off please have the minutes reflect that okay all said on that one uh next up historical commission there are two vacancies one threeyear term one oneyear term and three applicants two new people are Patrick Fagan and James Burton and a person seeking reappointment is right is is is Michael rawan James Burton is on Zoom I'm sorry James Burton is on Zoom James bur's on Zoom thank you um so for this particular one um I just want to look at one of thing here what is the one that there was one there was a historical Commission in the historic district okay so Patrick Pagan is also on the historic district commission yeah so that's that was the one thing that caught my eye in the packet uh how does that typically work they have different Charters so do it I think if memory serves people have often been on both they don't really conflict I don't think um um let's see J he vote on most things though if he's if he's on the district and the commission I mean it's I would think there's some Duality there so the district has authority over only the 25 properties in the district whereas the historical commission is for the whole town and they approv demolition permits so they have different functions so I guess if something was going to be demolished that was in the historic district it would go to the historic district commission not the historical commission but anywhere else in the town it would go to the historical Commission does that make sense it does but I think it creates an opportunity for us to spread the wealth a little bit you know with other folks that want to get involved um but I also thought that I saw James Burton is we just board of appeals on into the board of appeals which is a job right that is a that is a lift at times um is that who you mentioned was on Zoom yes is anyone else on Zoom for this particular appointment that we can tell I don't think so board okay if we go to Mr Burton and ask his interest yeah sure James are you out there yes sir welcome thank you for joining us tonight um if you wouldn't mind sharing your interest with a historical commission and how that might fit or not fit with the zoning board of appeals which we just appointed you to um Etc uh the zoning aboard appeals um I've got that locked down pretty well I've been doing it for a while um you know we meet every other week it's not too intensive um as long as you read all the materials and you go do site visits um as for the historical um thing I have a history degree um I'm in real estate um I'm good with architecture um I want to be more involved in the historic properties around town um I thought it was a good way to um be involved okay anybody have any questions for Mr Burton actually I I believe and I'll clarify with elain I believe we have an opening for a realtor on the historic district commission the other one is that right I believe that was filled by someone else oh Danielle yeah okay never mind sorry we did for a long time so never mind I was thinking that could be a better fit but I I do offer that the two boards meet on different nights so there is into conflict there do we have any other candidates to speak and I mean I would recommend it reappointment for Mike Ruan because he has been on there a long time and really does a good job keeping everything in order but Patrick does a great job on the historic district commission which is not a very active committee so I mean I think either Patrick or James would be good for one the other choice uh we don't believe there's anyone else on no okay so what is the board's uh pleasure here Mrs Ritter Bush start your end and oh well I would like to nominate Mike Ruan for the one of the spots and I'm I'm really on the offense of the other I guess I would go with Patrick for the um historical commission I agree with Mike Rowan microphone please apologies uh I I would nominate Mike Row for reappointment and I would look to kind of change things up with James for showing up tonight and talking to us different perspective M leerer well he just wasn't that just a motion no we're just kind of going down okay I thought he made a motion path of the nomination concept well I don't I don't know James Burton or Patrick Fagan so it makes it a little difficult if they're not here Michael Rowan we just ch Jam I gave him I didn't see that yeah sorry I think I would uh go with Michael Rowan for the three-year term because he has experience um the one-year term this is James Bolton Bolton Burton Burton okay so then I would go with James Burton for the onee term okay Mr Man yeah I I first of all I mean Kos to all three for stepping forward and it's a tough decision when we have two for three wonderful candidates for two I I think I agree Michael Rogan uh for threee term um and his experience and contribution has been uh tremendous and I appreciate that James is here so I'm leaning towards James um and with James I think both are great candidates but James being here and his interest and his background fits well so I would go for that too okay so the chair want to turn a motion to appoint Michael to the three-year term uh expiring 630 27 and James Burton to the one-year term expiring 630 225 so move so move okay we have Motion in a second any further discussion thank you to all that submitted their names please continue to stay involved obviously Patrick is and other areas of town government which is great all those in favor please say I I I and he opposed okay it's unanimous so carries so that's how we're going to handle the historical commission going going forward for this round uh next up youth commission um there are three full member vacancies a high school rep vacancy and one Middle School rep vacancy and six applicants so my mouth my math says we have one too many in terms of the applicants and we have one individual Joshua Jones seeking reappointment who has served for some time on behalf of the community I believe some of them are in the room and some are on Zo Zoom I'm sorry some of them are on zoom and some are in the room I believe okay uh if your name was just called if you wouldn't mind coming forward please um Deborah mahale arjent porori oricio chattery Karen mulick and Iris Steckler and my apologies if I didn't get it right and Joshua Jones Okay so let's do are there any on Zoom that we're aware of arent is on Zoom I'm sorry I'm on I'm on zo on arjin is on Zoom y okay so your name please Joshua Jones hello Joshua nice to see you thank you and your name please aritro chaty Aro okay got it so by my records here we have arel Joshua and orjin with us this evening correct everybody agree with that okay based on that um Mrs lefr well we got a very nice letter from the people at the uh youth commission that Joshua Jones has been on it for year and they would love to have him back that he has done an excellent job and that they're very impressed with him and uh I read the letter so I think it would be a very easy thing to reappoint Joshua Jones first of all for the one year school vacancy School rep vacancy actually I think else Don recommended that we appoint him for the full vacancy because there's other high school students that have applied I'm sorry Don uh don elott recommended that we appoint Joshua as the full member because we have other high school applicants that could take the high school rep spot okay I think okay okay um any other thoughts Mrs ritterbush uh I guess I would since we do specifically have spots for middle and high schooler are any of the applicants middle schoolers do we know because then that would be easy to fill um Don do you know okay we're not sure the applications are blind as to age probably right for good reason makes it a little tough in this one though can we ask Mr Clark anything the applicants that are here are you high school students is that right or yes he and then and on Zoom I'm a high schooler so you're both high school students okay okay Mr Clark um I'd like to hear just from each of them that showed up whether in person or on Zoom just kind of their interest in just a quick minute while we have him Joshua is well prepared looks like he can read that in about 60 seconds Joshua please go ahead no pressure um uh I have served on the commission for for 3 years um uh originally as a middle school representative and then now as chair um I really think that the primary function of the commission is to create youth spaces for uh youth in the town um and uh my plan for the future is um uh over the summer I hope to get our volunteer website that we're building uh operational I hope to get close with Youth and Family Services and um I also hope to meet at the end of the summer with the commission so that we can like formulate a plan for the future and uh maybe rework our chter a little bit uh uh just to be a little bit better oriented for the community yeah great thank you very much for that yes sir so with the the youth commission I would be empowered to really combat different issues that we have in our youth Community especially in bias and mental health because these are really uh issues that are ignored by our youth with the youth commission I would be able to partner with different uh uh programs so we can really inform people on how we can U help mental health and bias in our communities towards different people and really provide awareness to these issues great thank you very much Aran on Zoom I have a deep passion about the mental health I think after covid the mental health of a lot of um people has gone down I really want to help fix that by just helping out the community great go ahead y i I would like like to research throughout the summer about this and help get better mental health throughout the town great thank you very much all three make very good cases for their candidacy any other thoughts from the board questions I I'd like to know what what terms are you seeking are you seeking the the you are you in high school yes so you're seeking the onee high High School rep position or a regular three-year position on the board a regular three-year position that's why his name was up there so Arin three Josh was going to do three regular position are through actually right I'm sorry yeah AR are you year two do you have any preference year as well okay think it makes sense to so those three are full members I do think it Mak a sense to appoint the three that are here for the full member SS but it'll be hard to choose which of the other two uh through the chair I was just wondering um Deborah miali she was a candidate earlier right for commission on disability yes um she didn't get it so I was wondering to have her giving an opportunity here and also uh having one of the high school candidates for the high school rep and the other two as full member that way we can accommodate them so it's weird like we're appointing People based on age I know like just yeah it is today's HR World well I I kind of like Amy's point I mean I would recommend the three to full members based off their attendance Okay so why don't we do this because this is just a sticky one for lots of different reasons let's start at that end and see if we can't build this nomination concept from left to right sure uh through the chair I didn't understand um where are we considering the age Oh you mean well when you're picking a high school student to fill the high school seat versus a high school student to fill a regular seat because we have another person that might not be a high school student will go to the regular seat so we're the age is coming into play that's what I get nervous oh I but that's by Design right I don't think anyone who is not in the high school can join the high school rep is that correct yeah that's only one US SE so it's a non- voting so the high school rep position is for our high school students and do we have any other high school student here um to fill in that I don't think I don't know based on the application we can't tell on the application well I know but I know adult I don't know the other two yeah but a high school student can be a full member also is there any one of the high school students that would be willing to be the high school rep let start with that they don't have me on the full committee okay fair enough no that's fine that's fine yeah uh yeah I I agree I would um go with the preferences of the people who has taken the time and come here and given wonderful speech and shown the commitment so kudos to you all thank you and then also um Debra miali um those are my preferences so that leaves one more Mr Man oh one more we have three students to go full members we have Deborah and then we would have one more there's five seats there's three full members a high school rep and a middle school rep but we don't think they have those types of folks then we can't go there we can wait on those yeah so is there let's leave those alone for right now how about that why don't we app three and we'll members so the chair will entertain a motion tell me if I get this right to appoint Arjun oro oro I'm sorry for the name and Joshua to the youth Comm to the youth commission uh for the three full-time member vacancies so moved oh and there's two different term lengths it looks like um two will expire in 2027 and one in 2026 if any of you are graduating next year it might make sense for you to take the shorter term um uh I'm graduating in 2026 so it might make sense do you mind taking the 2026 Joshua 2026 so that's so you move that with Joshua in 2026 term uh yes okay we have a motion on the table is there a second second any further discussion all those in favor please say I I any opposed okay great so we'll table the other appointments to a future meeting uh and we'll go with uh the three folks that just got elected congratulations guys thank you very much you thank you all right moving on now to confirmed Town manager appointments Mrs Lazarus so uh these are the plumbing and gas inspector Charles de britz the assistant plumbing and gas inspector Peter zareski uh and Dan Hunt the wiring inspector Kevin boret um and also for the person to cut wire in case of fire uh assistant wire inspector Jonathan Shepard sealer of weights and measures lisis siken and public weers John Palmer Jane Adams Jamie Wright Colleen Roy and Thomas J McIntyre and those are onee terms okay Madame Vice chair I need you to run this appointment please I'm going to step off the board I'm in the wait okay wait I'm in the electrical business and I don't want to be okay uh anybody want to read the motion want I'll I'll do it okay I move to appoint the following Town Off officials to a one-year term for the recommendation of the interim Town manager plumbing and gas inspector Charles de britz uh assistant plumbing and gas inspector Peter zeri uh assistant plumbing and gas inspector Dan Hunt wiring inspector Kevin Beret uh person to cut wire in case of fire Kevin Beret assistant writing inspector Jonathan Shepard SE weights and measured LS second public weer John Palmer public weer Jane Adams uh public weer Jamie Wright public weer Colleen Roy and public weer Thomas J McIntyre second so move second got to say all in favor any discussion we got a sec okay second second all in favor I hi okay okay the seat keep safe program middlex Sheriff's Department I do think the chief is here would you like to take a few minutes and explain this to us is anybody here from the middle sheriff's department they are not they are not through the chair I I did speak with the unders sheriff and a couple other Representatives before coming before you and uh the sheriff extends the support for our community this is a program that's in place in 50 police departments within middle sex County as well as the state police uh the sheriff's very supportive in many initiatives in the in the community in the communities that he that his agency serves so I want to thank him for this opportunity so what the safekeep program does is it will allow us to have take a person who's under arrest for we wouldn't do it every night like with every arrest it would just be if someone wasn't going to be in the cell for an extended period of time maybe a long weekend if you've seen our cells there steel shells with concrete beds um it's a long time to spend four days in a three or four days in there if there was an arrest on a Sunday night and we could bring them to court we wouldn't do that and we'd evaluate the sad day um type of thing and we'd talk with the prisoner and and and this would be a decision made at the sergeant level based on guidelines um not every prisoner can be transported um so uh only men only and they'd be brought to theill rec where they'd be in taken in and then when the court opened they would be brought to the court having the jurisdiction so for if we arrested them they'd be brought to Middle sex District to Framingham District however if we arrested on a a warrant out of Brockton District they would they would bring them to Brockton wherever in the Commonwealth the warrant may be from okay thank you chief for that background Mrs rder Bush questions no I I think that makes sense and I appreciate um getting the information about the program Mr Clark no questions we just wanted to hear like your yeah endorsement of it so thank you Mr Man uh no questions I think clarified well um so I'm in favor of okay just just simplifi this um uh uh someone who's arrested would stay overnight yes if we made an arrest tonight we this this is for a long term like more than 3 days oh or the long another problem so the longest event that could occur is would be an arrest on Friday through a Monday holiday so then for Tuesday court appearance I'd like to try to avoid that historically I went through if if history is um any show of what my happen in the future we might be talking about three or four times a year thank you Chief any cost associated with this to the town the only cost that could be incurred would be medical expense to care for a prisoner that that was in there um and I'm not sure that we wouldn't incur those costs anyways if the person was uninsured we kept them here yeah other than medical costs there's not a pum anything like that there is no cost to to become a member of this program and um there are some costs savings because we might not have to bring an additional staff through the long weekend to cover it and we might not and we wouldn't have to transport them okay everybody good good anybody want to make a motion please in the Motion stock I moveed to enter into the memorandum of agreement with the middle SEC Sheriff's Office that would permit the police department to use the regional pre-arraignment safekeep holding facility as a holding facility for the short-term Detention of persons arrested by the Hoppington Police Department prior to arraignment and to authorize the interm town manager to sign this agreement second second we have a motion and a second on the table any discussion on the motion all those in favor please say I I any oppos unan and so carries I'll set thank you Chief thank you thank you thank you all okay item number eight on tonight's agenda is a school committee vacancy uh Mrs Lazarus if you could walk us through what our brief obligations are evening aren't much other than acknowledging it and doing something else I think go ahead so briefly the charter lays out the process for filling vacancies and elected offices and um the school committee has already done their part by um accepting the um the uh resignation and announcing it at a public meeting uh so what needs to occur next is that the town manager's office will advertise the vacancy and has to be advertised for at least 17 days before an appointment is made we will advertise applications will come in and the person will be appointed by a joint a joint uh Committee of the two boards together so there's no vote required this evening of the board that's correct should we find a date that we can all meate that we can all meet um after 17 days we can work on that uh we'll prend out the advertising and we'll will coordinate with the school committee on available dates everybody good y I believe there's a representative from the schools here if they have any questions can raise their hands but not seeing any hands up I think we're all set so the board is now notified the town manager's office is going to follow the charter and advertise the vacancy and seek applicants and the applicants would file those applications with your office correct that's correct okay it's an online application all right all right everybody good next item on the agenda item number nine findings on the center school and Elmwood School the select board will receive an update from the permanent building committee regarding the findings on the proposed uses of the Center School El school and elbl school buildings and discuss options I believe we have the permanent building committee chair here Mr McIntyre with the commission of the chair uh we'd like to try to defer one man had Carrie come in and do hers first that's going to be quicker that's okay with the chair number 10 number 10 item number 10 item number 10 is the employee appointment of uh Cody slamman as a water technician at the Department of Public Works I'm okay with that everybody okay with that all right we'll table for one minute car please join us at the table and do your thing so we're on item number 10 now Folks at home this is a new employee appointment Jessica if you would do the honors please I think El reads the bio elain reads the bio and then I'll uh do the rest okay Mrs Lazarus okay tonight we have Cody slaman here for appointment as water technician in the water department um the role provides for the delivery of high quality water through the water distribution Network it performs all necessary work related to the installation maintenance and repair of public water Distribution Systems um and the role ensures organizational efficiency in the application of policies procedures and methods it involves frequent inter frequent interpretation of policies procedures and guidelines and might involve the development of recommendations consistent with directives policies and regulations C has experience with the town of Westboro DPW as a sewer Craftsman and then moved over to the water department uh with DNM Auto Parts in Framingham at the surface in front desk and in the clean room facility services in Framingham uh his references reveal that he has a strong work ethic and learns very quickly in what can be a complex environment he works very well independently and does what is asked of him he volunteers every time when on call openings become available and is very reliable and a previous supervisor said that Cody loves waterw work and would be an asset to to any town or city he was described as having excellent customer service skills great thank you Jessica so the interview panel was uh Carrie Reed the Public Works director Eric cardi water sewer manager Jed Fu the water sewer assistant manager and Kristen Merill the human resources generalist um we advertise a position um internally and externally three candidat applied for the position two were interviewed and uh Cody Rose um as a top candidate great thank you any questions or comments from the board on the appointment questions no no questions but um it looks like his his background is from what he's doing in Westboro would be a good compl I just want to know why you choosing hington um really just a closer drive to home I live in ashin so it's the next town over you're close at home okay have you driven through town lately yeah um I like your resume you have uh the right licenses and great experience thank you for choosing Our Town congratulations great Cody thank you very much for coming in this evening this is a process we have to go through I'm still not clear why the board's involved in some of this but we'll cover that another time uh I think this is great that uh you're getting an opportunity and uh it's a great group of people and Eric and his team do a fabulous job for us and I think uh you'll you'll fit in really well so congratulations welcome um the chair will entertain a motion to appoint Cody slamon as a water technician in the Department of Public Works I move to appoint Cody slaman as a water technician for the Department of Public Works second we have a motion and a second any further discussion all those in favor please say I I any opposed all set Cody you're unanimously hired congratulations do we do a picture Eric picture yeah we're going to do a picture [Music] where's Mary Jo right slow great thank you very much all right uh back to item number nine findings on the Center School in Elmwood School uh we had set aside 45 minutes for this conversation Mr McIntyre we are behind by about 40 minutes can you do this in the next 5 minutes no can you give us the abbreviated version everybody knows the history of Center School so try and kind of gloss over some of that stuff and get to the Brass tax if you would please you're very good at that all right this on do I have to do anything this that's on okay uh good evening Dan McIntyre uh chair of the permanent building committee uh next to me Dave Godfrey godfroy recently reappointed so we're here tonight to give an update on Center and Elmwood schools reuse um we can go to the next slide so the first couple of slides I'll go through very quickly uh we made a presentation to the select board last December uh but I thought we'd just go over the these again for the two new board members so our original charge was to figure out what to do with Center School uh based on the recommendations of the Center School reuse committee uh once the town decided to build a new school in vacate Elmwood in the coming years uh our scope expanded to figure out what to do with Elmwood as well so our first step was to uh update the need study that the Center School re committee did they did an excellent job on on doing those needs but we felt it was good to update those uh and actually turn them into physical space requirements we also did a number of U community outreach meetings we had two public forums that were pretty well attended uh I met with a number of boards you can see up the planning board Parkson wreck a few meetings with the Chamber of Commerce uh I met with the ERS of Center School um Zach Housing Authority school committee or school superintendent and uh historic commission and open space uh to make sure that we got everyone's opinion on what we're doing uh next slide so our architectural planning results indicated that we've outgrown Town Hall uh the physical space in the the building that we're in now need to expand by at least 30% to cover the existing programs and uh employees here uh when we met with Dr Kavanaugh uh one of the things what two things came up one was the integrated prek class rooms and another was the life skills program uh which she mentioned in a letter to you recently as well uh the Senate School reuse committee uh also had the life skills program at Center School uh but the integrated prek was kind of a new thing that came up and kind of threw us for a loop because that it's a lot of space and it's an expensive space to build uh but the life skills program we think is an excellent fit for one of the options we're going to show you later on uh a gymnasium was important we we lost a gymnasium at Center School oxen W would like to have it replaced because they have a lot of program that use gymnasiums community meeting spaces was a was a big thing and this isn't just for um government entities and and and committees this is for non-government organizations um nonprofits are always looking for spaces um they call the town manager's office or the facilities department for space and we just don't have anything to offer uh we also included space for the school administration they're now leasing space uh we know they like the space they're in and they don't want to leave but we thought it was at least planned for it in case something changes in the future and uh the facilities Department doesn't have any space at all right now uh they essentially work out of their their cars and trucks uh and storage was a big thing uh not only just record storage but just bulk storage uh the police chief has a boat that he'd like to put undercover and those type of things that we just don't have space for uh in addition to our updating the needs we also look back at the previous reports that were done there's been a lot of good work done in the past the vision statement uh which came out of the Conway report uh we had we had a housing report we got the grow study committee we got the master plan there's a lot of good information in there that we thought was relevant to what we're doing uh particularly to the center school where we talk about downtown revitalization where we really want to create some more some more activity Gathering spaces for for people that come downtown and mingle and use our businesses that was an important part of of the master plan and the vision statement as well as public private Partnerships to try to bring in the business community and the government organizations kind of work together uh out of our public Outreach uh we heard a lot of what we normally hear throughout town I'm sure you've heard all of these uh the two big ones were affordable housing and high taxes uh the affordable housing was really two components of that one is the big a affordable housing which would be beat the definition of 40b and go toward our temp % goal but I think most of the people that came to our public hearings were talking about the small a affordable housing in Hopkin is just not affordable for a lot of people there's not much that we can do at Elwood at Center school for that but I have a I have another slide coming up that will touch on that a little bit more uh downtown business expansion was brought up uh Downtown parking was brought up um what to do at at this town hall if we move out of it um there was some concerns about that uh again community meeting spaces uh high density housing came up a lot as well I think our community forums were right in line with when the mpta zoning was coming to light so there was a lot of of uh talk about high density zoning and and most of the people that came to our Farms did not not want more high density zoning in town and uh expanding the cultural arts opportunity was also a big thing the cultural council is working on creating a Cultural District in the downtown uh I think that's a good thing and and uh could benefit the town in many ways next slide so putting it all together we came up with five different scenarios that we presented last uh December one was to split Town Hall between a new building at Center school or reuse the existing Center School and this building town hall another one was to try to expand this building and fit everybody into this uh the third option was build a new municipal center at Center school property fourth one was a new municipal center at Elmwood and the fifth one was pretty Prett much a redo of uh building a new municipal center at Elwood school but keeping this town hall so the town has some sort of a presence in the downtown uh next slide so we did a kind of a consumer reports review of those five options um we felt that splitting Town Hall functions was not a good way to go likewise when we look closer at expanding this building it just didn't make sense it wasn't practical there'd be no room for future expansion we still have parking problems so we really focused on items c and d a new town hall at Center school or a new town hall at Elmwood School next slide so what would a new town hall at Center School look like uh We've made the commitment to the historic commission and historic district commission to save Center School we did hear from a lot of people about saving Center school so we wanted to make sure that was included in our program uh the rest of it the 1950 section the 1980 section uh we we saw no value in those at all so we're proposing to tear those down build a new off the 1928 building to serve as a new town hall and it includes all the town hall departments we have here now as well as bringing in parks and rec from silks Walcott bringing in the IT department that is now over in Fruit Street uh we'll have a new gymnasium we think the life skills program is a good fit in this area as well uh we'll have meeting spaces and we'll have we'll have more parking now now this area isn't uh probably the greatest area for municipal parking lot you're not going to you're not going to park here and then walk down to uh to the pantai to get to get a something to eat there it's a little distance to walk for that but uh at least it'll be some more parking downtown what's missing here is facilities and bulk storage uh we didn't think U building a a storage facility in the center of town was a good fit we think that it's a better fit for fruit street so our conceptual budget is $50 million to do that if we were to add prek here which is about another 15,000 square ft uh the price jumps up to [Music] 67,000 67 million next slide now elmood school we looked through the same thing uh the Elwood School building is a bigger building it's almost 880,000 Square ft uh it's in relative it's in better shape than the Center School building for sure uh we send you know 600 plus kids there now to school every day uh we think that's a good fit for a rehab into a new municipal center and we can fit all the town departments in there that we've going to do with with Center School we have we have room for facilities and because it's a 78,000 ft building we can even reserve space for prek if uh if that was so uh to the town's liking in the future cost on this one 47 million uh with prek we got a we got a typo in there it bumps up to a little over 50 million on that one it's showing the same yeah it's it's the same it's uh that's the wrong figure but it bumps up about another 10 million for prek because the the cost of at Center School prek we're building new the per square footage cost is a little bit more than if we rehab the existing space so we can do a little bit cheaper here at Elmwood but 47 million for a new town hall in Elwood 50 million for a new town Cate School same number really uh but we think that Elwood school is a much better fit uh next slide and here are some of the reasons uh the Elwood School site is a 19 Acre Site uh it's big enough to fit the municipal center and it's big enough to uh serve any other needs that we don't even know about now we really want to plan for the next generation and we can't predict what might happen but with 19 acres in a relatively central location of town we think is a is a prime place for the municipal center uh the building is bigger we got almost an 880,000 ft building versus trying to build that at Center School becomes more costly um as mentioned future needs and growth was a big part of of going to Elmwood uh we put track graffic up there as well you can see we highlighted Elmwood as green and uh the Center School Town Hall as kind of neutral uh the reason we did that is if we put it if we put the town hall at Center School uh the staff that works there is going to be commuting to and from town hall at the same time we have Peak congestion at at downtown so that that's the only reason we felt that Elmwood was a better fit the town staff doesn't have to uh navigate the town traffic during those Peak congestion periods uh supporting the Downtown Vision uh we put some question marks there because everyone has kind of a different opinion on that uh if we built a new municipal center at Center School some feel that a town hall downtown is a drawer in it self and we'll bring bring people in uh if we build a new municipal center at Elmwood School uh that could support The Vision by freeing up Center School for some other use so I'm kind of a proponent of the other youth at Center School rather than a town hall at Center School we have we have a downtown town hall right now uh and it doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot for our downtown revitalization so I think doing something different at Center School may may be the spark we need and and we've gone over the costs so we've we can skip to the next slide am I going fast enough or too fast all right okay so when we talk about Center School other uses uh one that came up was to sell Center School and put in some sort of commercial district there uh when we talked to the Chamber of Commerce there was a a lot of discussion about how we could put some some businesses in there kind of sparked the downtown revitalization right right a um a site right next to the town hall uh they considered prime location but we also had to consider the input we received from the residents of our our community Farms as well and and the vision statement and the master plan so we looked at those and we came up with this kind of a a mixed juice concept where we were targeting small retail small service shops in the down in the center School area uh Center school property uh but we also felt we had to include some housing there as an incentive for a developer there's just not a big big market for small retail shops in these areas at least not in the current economic climate so we felt that we had to put in some housing in there as an incentive to get the commercial development we wanted so the RFP RFP went out with the intent of creating a commercial development with a housing component uh unfortunately we only received two bids and they were essentially residential developments with a small commercial component so we didn't get exactly what we wanted uh but we did get something and and we the information we got from both of those proposals helped us in our next step of Val valuating what to do with Center in Elmwood uh next slide under U the procurement laws in Massachusetts before we um send out an RFP we have to put a value on the property we want to sell we did this by three methods we looked at the Assessor's Records uh we hired a a real estate professional that's involved in uh in development and then we also hired an independent appraiser to appraise their Center school property so the assessors have the land value at 2 million uh 1 million the building value at 2 million for a value about $3 million on that property uh when we talked to the independent appraiser uh we looked at a couple different options there uh first was uh both the both the appraiser and the real estate professional felt that housing was the highest and best use there if we wanted to get the best value for selling that land housing was the way to go uh it's currently zoned as single family so we looked at what we could do as as single family with no zoning changes uh the appra the appraiser came up with a value of about $100,000 per lot real estate professional thought that was too low they double that they're close to 200,000 per lot um we felt we could get a maximum of 10 Lots there which would be the maximum number of lots we could put on a dead end Street uh we would essentially have to demolish every building on that site put in a small cuac to get that many Lots uh and whether we could get 10 Lots or eight Lots is is Up For Debate but uh we see as a single family bught use we see the value at about a million dollar if we wanted to increase the density of housing on Center School we could increase the value of the property to the taxpayers uh we looked at both apartments and uh multif family or condos uh and for the condos the appraiser and the real estate professional were very close on what they valued right around 90,000 per unit at 45 units which is what we estimated uh we came up with 3.6 million as a value which is pretty close to what the the assesses value at the property as uh for apartments uh they felt that uh the value of Apartments was lower uh for 60 Apartments 62 Apartments would have a value of uh about 1.8 million and there was really no really science behind how we picked 45 units or 62 units um we we looked at if if this was to be MBTA zoned which it was under consideration for at one time uh the 6 acre front parcel would have supported 90 units by right uh we know from our community outreach that that wasn't going to fly with anybody nobody wanted that so basically we kind of cut it in half and put 45 units in there um the real estate professionals from Le Mcall felt that that was a reasonable uh number to put in for uh 6 acres and then the final thing we looked at was if we just sold the 1928 building for commercial space similar to that was done years ago for the old high school up on Main Street that has that uh that nice uh professional offices in there uh they placed a value on that about 400,000 so under the procurement law just because we have to set a value on the land doesn't mean we have to sell it for that value we can sell it below value if there's some other overriding public interests such as cost avoidance which we have in this instance or uh Economic Development which we we hope to have in this instance as well uh next slide so I'm going to go over both proposals this is the proposal number one uh in this case this was the condo proposal uh the developer proposed 45 condo units in a new Wing behind the 1928 section uh they're roughly about 1300 Square ft uh they would be age restricted uh we also asked for 10% affordability so there would be 40 market rate age restricted how uh condos and then there would be five affordable units which we would not be able to age restrict uh in the old 1928 building on the first floor they propos that to be commercial uh some type of restaurant uh we don't we don't have details on that restaurant but some site of restaurant that would kind of play into the Gathering Spot that was talked about in the master plan in the vision statement uh the second floor of the 1928 building would be the amenities for the 45 condos uh the offer purchase offer price was $100,000 uh the annual tax revenue this is estimated by our assessors at $375,000 a year uh based on the results of the growth study committee those five affordable units we would expect that there'd be at least three children in there at a at a education rate of about $116,000 per child would have an education cost of about $48,000 would we would have to contend with that at some point in the future uh next slide uh the second proposal uh did not meet all of our RFP requirements so we had to reject this one but I thought it was important to go over with the board because there's some some interesting information on here regarding affordable housing so this particular developer was going to rehab the entire Center School the 1928 section the 1950 section and the 1980 section into Apartments uh there would be uh let's see how many apartments there was going to be 32 residential Apartments uh and most of those were going to be affordable apartments and then also there would be a separate building with an additional 30 market rate Apartments um totaling 62 units so that was that was one of the things that didn't fit our criteria was we exceeded the 45 limit on residential units and they were going to put in a small Cafe in part of the U the Old Center School but what's interesting here is is when we talk about affordability um they actually worked up what the rents would be at these apartments based on the uh the adjusted me income of of Hopkin residents so for the affordable units the rents would vary between $2,200 and $2,500 a month those are the affordable units the market rate units go up to $3,400 so in our discussion during the community outreach I don't know if a lot of people would think that $2,500 a month for a th000 ft apartment is is Affordable but u based on our community statistics that's what it would be so the purchase offer on this one was $0 and it required the town to kick in $2 million a million dollar from the affordable housing trust fund and a million do from the uh CPA account the annual tax revenue was $325,000 and we expect about 12 children would be in those affordable units with almost a $200,000 education cost in the coming years so in addition to the affordable rates of the rents you can see that affordable housing isn't going to get built in Hopkin unless the town is willing to invest in it uh they they thought $2 million was the right number to put into this to make this work uh but I don't think there's any political will to do that uh if we were going to do that it's already been master planned at Fruit Street uh part of the fruit Street master plan has an affordable housing component over there but again there's been no political will to proceed with that at all uh next slide so we can we looked at the offers the $100,000 offer the zero offer and we tried to make some sense of that and there are some site specific uh constraints at Center School that would affect what a developer can offer you know the demolition of that property of those back buildings $900,000 is our estimate there's a million dollar worth of hazardous material in that building that has to be abated and then the historic Renovations of just the windows at this 1928 Center School we be getting prices of $700,000 just to those windows so a developer has to take that into account when they put their price together but even with that um if we took our valuation of 3.6 million for 45 units we were still expecting a price of around a million dollar for this property uh of course there there's other things that developers have to weigh risk on there's rezoning there's perming those are both big risks we don't know what kind of conditions that those permits are going to hold so the developer has to be somewhat cautious in its offer is also the problem of hidden defects uh when we sell that building we expect to just wash our hands of it uh and if there are any hidden defects it's on the developer but when we went through it there's also some benefits of buying a town property as well uh when the developer goes to town meeting goes to the planning board the zoning board he's going to have a representative of the Town sit next to him supporting that development um Center School has water and sewer right at the front door they don't have to drill Wells they don't have to do itic systems and it's a previously developed site so when they start doing the storm water design uh they're going to be doing as a Redevelopment which has less strict standards than a new Greenfield site so the question that we struggled with and we're kind of pushing on to the five of you is is $100,000 or or $2,000 per unit a reasonable offer some people are going to say yes because it essentially gets rid of a white elephant we don't have to spend money on it my taxes aren't going up I can save Center School I can get you know another amenity another restaurant downtown we can get some more housing and it doesn't affect my taxes uh others will say boy $2,000 a unit uh when we know that lots are going for $250 $300,000 uh I don't think I want to be the one that stands up at town meeting and says we're going to send C sell Center School for $2,000 a unit so that that's something that we need to we need to discuss and uh and come to some resolution with uh next slide so we wanted to go through the same numbers if we sell Elmwood uh we went through through the same uh evaluation the assessors have Elmwood at about $6 million uh the building value is much higher down there uh the appraiser and the real estate professional same numbers at Center School as at Elwood for uh for developing in there so Elwood is also a single family by right we think we get 10 Lots in there uh if we actually built a road to connect Wood Street to Elm Street we could probably squeeze in a couple of more but we're only looking at probably a million million two for the value as as it currently zoned if we were to rezone it for higher density would certainly make more money uh the 142 units is based on half of the MBTA zoning uh at 15 units per acre came up with about 287 units could be supported on Elmwood so we cut that in half and based on these valuations we think the value of Elwood is about 11 million if we cut that further down to a smaller number like 66 uh we'd have about 6 million uh the 66 number has some validity to it uh there's two existing condo projects in Elm Street uh apple tree and and Indian uh Indian Hill I think it is um the density of those properties are about 3 and a half to four units per acre so we applied that same density to Elwood School came up with 66 units and a value of about $6 million we have the same issues with elmet as we did at Center School there'd be demolition involved uh the demolition would be more expensive here because it's a bigger building we've got about the same amount of hazardous material down there a million dollars and the developer would still have to be uh concerned with resoning perming and hidden defect risks so considering this we think we could get an offer about $2 million um but our estimate was wrong at Center School so our estimate is probably wrong at Elman too next slide so if we think Elmwood is the best fit for new new municipal center which we think it is and we're not getting good value for the property by selling Center School what do we do with it so to answer that question we went back to to our needs and goals and ask the question what which needs and which goals could be better addressed at Center School than anywhere else in town and what we came up with was going back to that Gathering Spot again uh but in this case we would do it with existing Town programs not a new town hall but we've got got parks and wreck we got Youth and Family Services uh the cultural programs those are all uh good programs that are going on now that lack in space uh and we're not talking about just soccer fields and pickle ball fields and that outdoor activity but Youth and Family Services and parks and wreck offer a lot of programs for a wide variety of people they've got they've got the chest and the AR and the Lego buildings and they got all kinds of things that need space for that we just don't have now when when Youth and Family Services does a big event uh they have to lease space because we don't have space for them to do that in uh and it also would give us an opportunity to have community meeting spaces for those nonprofits and and other organizations that come to us looking for space that we have to turn away now next slide so what would that look like so we think we could rehab the 1928 building into meeting spaces activity rooms Community rooms and the life skills program we think would be a perfect fit for this building uh the conceptual budget of that is $13 million it also brings in we've got the municipal parking uh we've got trail head parking uh for the trails that Peter lagoy are planning there and have already built some of them and the Adaptive playground is looking for a home we think this would be a great fit for that and there's still space left over if we wanted to build fields or some outdoor activity space there next slide and we think as I said this is a Gathering Spot we think it would be a great asset to the downtown revitalization but to make it really work we need that public private partnership and this is where we reached out to the Hopkin Center for the Arts uh they're currently doing some fundraising for an expansion up at 98 uh Hayden row which is also a town-owned building because their program has blossomed so much um and they felt that they could um fit into Center School probably better than they can by expanding 98 Hayden row they certainly wouldn't leave the Hayden row site because they need both sites but they would love to expand down to Center School and we see that as some big benefits both in money uh their fundraising can help support support some of the some of the rehab of this building but more important than that is there'd be a presence in this building at all times the Hopkins Center for the Arts is there you know I think probably six days a week maybe seven days a week there's going to be a presence in that building there's going to be activity there's going to be um something for people to go to whereas if it was just Parx and wreck or Youth and Family Services it would be an empty building sometime times we would have to hire more staff to to staff it but that public private partnership between the Center for the Arts and parks and wreck and loot Youth and Family Services uh and the the life skills program up at the center up at the school we think is a great fit for downtown if we're totally wrong and it's not a success uh there's also there's still land out there that we could build housing on later on uh it takes a leap of faith and it takes an investment in the town to move forward with this uh but I think it's the right thing to do if we if we did it the opposite way and sold it for housing it's going to be housing forever we're never we're never going to be able to get it back so here's here's a is a use for this that I think is going to help the town help the town departments uh Revitalize the downtown and be a real asset to everything downtown uh next slide uh we just want to touch base on this building that we're in tonight uh we don't see a big need for this building anymore if we built a new new municipal center at Elwood School uh so we would probably recommend selling it uh it's not worth a heck of a lot here uh the assessors have a value of $2 million uh the six wall card building next door would add another 400,000 to that uh but it it may be very similar to the Center School value of $400,000 that we got for just selling the center school if we were to sell it to a private developer uh under the current zoning it would be very similar to what would be happening at hopk drug where the first floor would have to be retail did probably put uh apartments on the on the second floor uh another option would be we could de it over to the Housing Authority uh we feel we could get about 10 subsidized apartments in here uh that doesn't sound like a lot uh and it's not a lot when the when I met with the Housing Authority uh there's a waiting list across the state for Housing Authority units uh between well over 5,000 people on that waiting list to get into subsidi housing um but if we were to do that you know Hopkin would do its little part um and then six wall cart would become the mpal parking lot it was supposed to be and and support that downtown revitalization next slide so moving forward this is what we think is a viable path uh Center School would do the Community Arts Center and the Downtown parking Elwood school would be the new municipal office building we'd have the gymnasium there it's already exists for parks and wreck and there's enough space in there for the facilities department and uh additional record storage that uh we're leasing space for now uh existing Town Hall uh that needs more discussion but it could be an RFP for sale or it could be deeded to the housing authorities to get some more subsidized housing in hopkington over at Fruit Street we're not proposing anything currently but we we think that's the right spot for a bulk storage building uh for the for the many things that we've collected over the years and uh I just wanted to touch base touch again on that U that's been Master planed for affordable housing so if there's ever the will to move forward with that um there's space for that over Fruit Street so we looked at the current 5-year Capital plan and we tried to squeeze these numbers in to fit that as best we can we know we've just spent a ton of money on new schools uh we know the MW water connection is coming up uh next year and the following year uh but there's in year 27 28 kind of light years on the capital plan we thought that might be a good place to squeeze in $13 million to do Center School we currently have $20 million on the capital plan for next year to do something at Center School uh we think next year would be a a design effort would like to come in for a million dollars on architectural services next year and then push out uh or reduce that $20 million that we got it earmarked down to 13 million uh for years 27 and 28 to do the construction and then when Elmwood becomes open we think the school is going to move out of there sometime around 2028 uh would want to come in and do some architectural work during those years uh but construction probably wouldn't happen until well beyond our current 5year plan would' be out into you know 2033 2034 uh to spend that money and as you can see uh that $46 million that we estimated in 2025 balloons up to 64 million because of escalation uh we assumed I think we assumed about a 5% escalation rate on this going over those six years s years uh whether that holds true or inflation comes down maybe that number will change but uh the longer we wait to do things the more more things cost so with that I will turn it over to someone else to talk that was extremely well done you guys have obviously put a ton of time and energy into this and thought it out from all kinds of different angles and as somebody in the construction business that looks at stuff like this all the time in different ways and even now doing the thing I'm doing um I think it's been really thorough review so thank you very much than for that uh um what is your ask of us this evening if anything well there's one immediate need we still have an RFP out there proposal out there that we haven't acted on we've got to make a decision on that and get back to the developer with a yay or nay that's the 100 Grand offer one that's the 100 Grand offer all right so is that floating out there that's floating out there so we got to make a decision doesn't have to be tonight but sometime in the near future we got to get back to that developer uh with an answer and then going down the path we have to sort out all these different options and consider what's the best way to go there going going down the path we'd like you to really consider that Community Arts Center at Center School as a viable option to promote the downtown uh that obviously is going to require some money uh so would' be looking for you to review that and and hopefully support that program all right so with that ask which isn't much of us this evening and given the hour I think we need to kind of move through this quickly as we can uh any thoughts about the presentation uh specific questions but again not deciding anything tonight Mr Manor uh some quick clarification questions so the RFP came out and um The Proposal is 100,000 part unit for 10 houses the first one right and that was amounting to 1 million so help me understand a little bit in Hopkinton a new house would be 1.82 million and any land usually would go I don't know but um generally 500 600 so why is this so low compared to this land and housing well I think I think you're comparing retail price verse wholesale price a developer is not going to pay $500,000 for a lot build a house they're going to pay lower so that's that's we we were pricing up the developers cost what what the town could get it to by selling to a developer if we if we would develop it ourselves yeah we could we could sell those those Condos for for more than $100,000 a unit but uh we're not in the building business no we're not but it sounds awfully low that's that's why I asked that question so you think based on the ass search and everything uh this is a reasonable number what which which 100,000 we talking about uh again the 10 um you appraised $100,000 they appraised apprais $100,000 yeah I I think it's low I think the leg at mall price of around $200,000 is a more reasonable number thank you um the other just comment is I think again thank you for the the thorough and detailed analysis and projection of various ideas collection of all of these tons of work went in it can uh it certainly shows that so thank you for all the hard work and wonderful work there's a lot to process um in general I think um any Capital large amount uh is going to be challenging during this time as you know and we want to make it The Best of Both Worlds we want to I mean personally I I want um I like the art center project I also like the 55 plus uh Community project because I think both are going to be uh helpful from one from our you know vibrant downtown and promoting art which we all love and the H is doing wonderful work we can expand on that the other one is we have affordable housing challenges and seniors um finding it harder to um sustain in larger houses even if they had it to Legacy or something because of the taxes uh and there's demand for staying close to their uh families so there's a lot of value on and value on that and the difference comes down to uh and again lot to process is that uh how much we are willing to invest and how much we can do without investing at tons on Capital project um as well as our long-term goal of affordable housing economic Dev development and all the good things how we can optimize those uh so just top of the head comments we'll process more but thank you for providing all the information M the fer i' I've seen some of this report before and um and I like a lot of it and I think you've done an excellent job and I I wish we had an an answer I wish we could just grab on to something and say okay this is it we got it but there's just too too much to still consider in it and it's um time consuming I'm sorry I wish I could say let's go well Mary Joe we weren't expecting an answer tonight so don't worry about that no answers tonight we're no answers tonight no does the RFP that you received does that CU I do a lot of rfps and some allow for negotiation after the fact and some do not what does this allow for submitted and selected can you still negotiate we can do some negotiation I I checked with Martin mcke and the the procurement officer uh we have the way we wrote the RFP gives us a little flexibility to negotiate uh but we can't really change any substantive terms of that and what we put out but we put back and maybe readdress some things if they're The Chosen entity we're trying to sort something through well we've I think we've got to select that particular offer and then once we get into the the actual purchase of sale negotiations uh and and develop that there's going to be there's going to be changes I'm sure yeah okay Jo um so great job first of all like very thorough like they already referred to um for the two responses on the RFP was that expected or was that you know low or high like what just in general do you expect with an RFB of this size we were disappointed uh we we started we we did a uh we did a request for interest probably a year prior to that to see what kind of interests you were from developers and we got about 10 responses on that but the the RFP actually required developers to outlay some cash to put this proposal together so so uh and at the same time you know hopk getting drug was going on the market uh and my understanding that that sold for about 3.5 million and they're proposing about 40 units there so our appraisals weren't that far off but our our offer came in a lot lower than than the Hopkin drug offer yeah going from 10 on the RFI to two that seems like a big gap yeah yeah we would we would just disappointed we only get that many was it like a normal time frame to respond or you just you alluded to a cost of you know responding which I think is you know at least I'm in a very different line of business but that's a normal thing right you make investments if you want to apply to something so just it just seems off to me it it it was low we we felt based on the interest we saw earlier but we understand it too I mean it's a it's a challenging site it's got a lot of risk to it uh so developers are a wary about uh doing things yeah I I like my initial thought is because again you laid out a really comprehensive plan right and it seems really premature to move forward with the RFP especially if we can't really negotiate a lot of it without having all those other answers in place right because in in my mind if we you know if we're trying to figure out the long-term Town Hall home and we give up one of the two places that it could be where's our leverage point in negotiations moving forward right it's I I just I don't like that idea so if it was you know up to me I'd probably pause things hold off figure out our the rest of our plans before we respond to the RFB I understand that we have to make a decision on that but I don't know I don't like the timing of it yeah I think I think if even if we only got one offer and that offer came back with with more commercial space that we had had hoped for and and and and even a little bit more money it doesn't have to be the full you know million dollars that we expected but even a little bit more money I'd probably be coming to you with a different presentation tonight like like I say I'm not that interest in going front of town meeting and say we're going to sell sener school for $2,000 a unit I I would agree with you anything else um no I'm good for now okay Amy yeah thank you for doing this I went to one of the forums I think in December and I'm I really feel like you listened to what people were asking for and um I'm a good listener yeah and um despite the price tag I think the Community Arts Center is a really good idea um and it was a lot of things that people want and it's not it's a fairly quiet use I think the neighbors would be okay with that and it wouldn't require resoning is that correct the because it's a municipal use I think when we did the Center for the Arts I think we had to do some rezoning up there I don't think so I don't remember may maybe it was just historic we had to go to on that one yeah so I I think the only drawback is that even though it's not as much as I'm would school you know 12 million million is a lot of money but hopefully we could get grants for that and I think the community would appreciate and like um that community art center and it would fit the life skills program that the superintendent was looking for is that correct yes okay okay and then hold on just a just a note in that in that 12 $1 13 million we we did throw in a big conting is's about $3 million of that as just contingency for unknowns we we think the real number is around 10 yeah and I had been previously reluctant with the idea of moving Town Hall out of the downtown but when you put the community art center which has a lot of the services people would want downtown I'm more willing to accept maybe moving the town hall to Elwood school so I appreciate you putting it all together and laying it all out um I think but we need now the community will heard this tonight and they can weigh in too but I think it's some good options um I had one last question yeah go ahead um so if we chose to not move forward with the RFP response right now and kind of reevaluate all of our options would we like owe anything I know I know these developers put money out to respond are we liable for anything like or do we just have the ability okay um to the chair yeah quick question on elmood I saw the options so a couple of um layers to it one is 45 million 67 million or something both are obviously pretty expensive for um what we're looking at but have you explored just as is how much and how effectively we could utilize it to meet our next 5 10 years of demand from the Town Hall in that case meaning almost no investment but as soon as we have the ELO freed up a lot of the town's extra capacity need be for people first and then storage and others can be fitted in there with minimal cost because it's a living breathing building now that's being used right um we'd have to spend some money down there um a lot of the numbers that we talked to tonight uh we relied on the elementary school building committee they did a lot of great work they had some great numbers they have a lot of information on Elwood School uh we we can't just move people down there there's some there's some code issues and things that just have to be addressed um so we could kind of peac meal it like you say do some work move people in but the rest of the work just never gets done because we got people working there and it just I think it's better to go in once do it right then move everybody from here down to there certainly it's it's expensive but uh it's going to be just as expensive the other way too it's just going to be over a longer period of time thank you y so on the RFP piece the 100K I view is 2.1 million because we're going to have to go spend whoever is going in there to get start fresh is going to spend a couple million dollars on demo and Hazmat alone the Hazmat in that building is a nightmare okay that is a 100-year old building there is lead paint everywhere there is stuff in those pipes God only knows what's behind those walls and we will find all that out and every bit of it to anybody else but us will be a change not if we hire somebody to do it uh for all kinds of different things so I think the 100K is really 2.1 million kind of as the offer but I suspect based on the RFP being flexible that number could have could evolve a little bit other ways I think that 100 Grand could change and but I don't think the 2 million is going to change for us other than go up right so I think that's a challenge for us um I'm going to be the bear of bad news on everything for the next three years when it comes to money as you should be our current thank you that's why we voted for you yeah exactly our current debt position today is approximately $85 million how much do we owe right now 85 million bucks our highest debt position in hopkinson's history before is $69 million $70 million so we're at $85 million today we're going to $220 million on the books I know the state's going to back some of that off but we're going to settle in about 165 of cash out the door $165 million the current um average home in Hopkinson right now is valued at $850,000 they're paying about 12 Grand in annual taxes that same house 5 years ago was paying about 8 million or 8,000 in annual taxes uh I know cuz I own one of them and so the taxes have been going up imagine what your taxes are going to do when we go to 65 or $70 million they will not double like the 85 million and debt going to double but the debt service is a huge number in our annual operating budget so we're going to be spending I would guess I'm estimating the average home in hopkington so please don't quote me on this just for conversation's sake is going up6 to 8,000 a year in the next four or five years per year for a number of years FY 27 and 28 is the peak and then it's going to stay that way for a little while with what we're building right now right and I'm all for what we're building right now but we have to recognize that we're going to $220 million in debt our cap so our valuation our equalized valuation in hopkington is $5.1 billion we went over $5 billion a few years ago I think it was in 2019 2020 something like that so the equalized valuation the total net worth of this community this town all this commercial all the residential everything $5.1 billion state law says we can borrow up to 5% of the equalized valuation that's $28 million we're going to almost max out the credit cards in the next couple of years how are we going to find another $50 million for a new town hall in the next 5 to 10 years I just don't see it I don't think the state's going to allow us to do it let alone what we want to do we don't have the debt SE we don't have the ceiling and our in our budget we don't have the ceiling and what we can go to the banks and borrow so we have to consider the total impact every time we talk about anything north of 100 Grand we don't have the money right now we're a highly successful Community that's going to have a huge asset base when we're done with these great buildings but it's going to cost us an enormous amount of debt service and it's going to talk about running people out of town that is going to run people out of town especially if you throw another $50 million on top of that and move Town Hall so I'm a big proponent of trying to figure out a public private partnership at Center School I think we can do a sale lease back thing where we can lease back that space and I think we can cut a deal that has lease options in it that we could buy the building back at 5 10 15 20 years things like that I think there's a lot of things we could do creatively to get what we want like that Center for the Arts to get the space for the schools to get the space for other things without spending a lot of our money let's let the developers spend the money let them make a profit over a 20-year period let them go to the bank they're not maxing out their credit cards we're already close to maxing out our credit card and when we do that there's one other big problem and I talked about it for the last three months our bond rating is going to drop like a rock and that $220 million or $170 million after the state money comes in that we owe in debt the interest on that is going to spike which is going to further drive up our tax rate so we've got a problem in town that we have we have a you know you're right out of college here's your first credit card kids go for it I need that card back you already maxed it out right we're in that kind of scenario right now as a community and we just have to be very very careful how we spend this money so I think we got to keep our options open we got to try and find a partnership that gets us what we want and I think we can do that with a sale leaseback type proposition of some sort and we got to be flexible so that we don't go bankrupt literally we'd be the most successful Community Massachusetts history to go bankrupt if the state pulls the plug on it says you're done we can't allow that to happen so just something to think about like no I mean huge number that's not lost on us we we heard that throughout all our community Farms that that same same argument um but that public private partnership isn't going to get you a $50 million Town Hall at some point we're going to have to vacate this place and and uh and build a new town hall it doesn't have to be in 2032 it doesn't have to be you know right away because we've been we've been serving the town out of this building for a while we could continue doing that but the but the community artart center at Center School I think Falls right in line with the public private partnership you just talked about yeah um because it um we talked about $13 million you know $3 million that is contingency which wasn't like we're going to spend uh but you know we've got CPA money I can't I can't speak for Ken but we've talked to him in the past and and they're willing to spend put into historic Renovations of that um we've got the uh Harkin Center for the Arts that was willing to Pony up some money to put toward this uh if the cural council gets approved uh there's going to be uh grant money for that that can be um applied to this so we can we can Whittle that $13 million down we're not going to whittle it down to zero for sure uh but Whittle it down to some reasonable number I think and and we get we get what we want there uh without what we don't want now there's no guarantee that we can get rezoning for housing at Center School past the T meeting that's not a guarantee by any means that could be that could turn into a very divisive fight uh but if you made a persuasive economic argument you might win but no guarantees on rezoning there yeah not there's no guarantee on any of these because we have to go through the Committees we have to go to the town and everyone has to approve and agree right but I agree I think I mean definitely tax concern is on our top of our head and um anything that we can delay 5 10 years at least from investment perspective and anything that can generate Revenue uh and help us at least kick off the economic development Journey that um we've been talking about would be the desired state and U the cult the cultural center is you know very much um in line with our Town's character and all the good things that we cherish uh from art culture however we'll need to kind of solve that equation that how much it exactly means and can there be you know other grants donations that can chip into that now going to the other side as well um and this is I know you have done tons of research and analysis uh can we combine them both in some ways that we also add some housing that can help um generate some some housing some um commercial on on the front or the premise that can generate some additional Revenue like you have projected but it also solves and encourages the art center in the back and combining those maybe we don't spend any but we we get what we want and we get affordable housing as well just being creative based on your no that's that's that's an absolute possibility if we if we develop that Community Center in the 1928 building we still got the land behind it right that could be built out for housing so that that's absolutely a possibility and and and just want to point out Brian the the numbers that you all quoted included that $20 million Place Mark for Center School that we have for next year year we'd actually be taking that out and reducing that down by 7 million so that's a step in the right direction done exactly with that positive note let's end it right here for now back on schedule yet we could talk about this for hours on end excellent presentation a lot of stuff to think about thank you guys very much thank the whole committee uh for helping us get to this point and we'll talk again for sure all right thank you thank you so much okay we got to move folks we're going to try and pick up the pace here a little bit very quickly uh Matt Abrams is here I saw him earlier um I think I got the name correct tonight keeping his father out of my head um so Matt you made the presentation at our last meeting uh there were a couple of different options I don't want to rehash all that we talked about then let's start with what are the options on the table this evening as far as percentages uh I thought I heard there was a 40% option and there was a 175% option uh were there any other options for us on the water side and our CFO kylo leier is on the zoom okay great uh good evening Matt Abrahams the Abrahams group so um we have for your consideration this evening we have two water rate options um and two of them they were two of the three presented last time when we heard two weeks ago um option one being the 40% option that was presented two weeks ago option two being the 50% option um we know Z did you say 5 Z yes um the other option that you refer to the 17 and a half we believe that's no longer a viable option the reason why is because um we received some guidance from Dr since we last met with you um related to the recent retain earnings authorizations that took place um we only thought that that option the 17 and A2 was viable if uh the funding source could be changed for those those authorizations that took place and we believe that um some of the author authorizations need to remain as is because technically there are retain earnings available to cover some of them just not all of them so uh our understanding at this point is that retain earnings would be reserved for some of those authorizations just can't be reserved for all of them because there aren't enough retain earnings to cover all of them so with that said we believe that option is no longer viable because it was assuming that the funding source for all of the authorizations would be able to be changed at an upcoming town meeting so for water before you this evening we believe the choices are option one 40% option 2 50% for that reason and if we didn't do 40 or 50% are are you suggesting that the water Enterprise fund would be upside down we'd have a negative cash flow we believe that there that retain earnings is a high likelihood that it gets certified negative this year with where things currently are so that would be the upcoming certification over the next few months um your rate uh decision this evening assuming you you make one would affect the following fiscal year FY 25 I think it's going to be a serious challenge to avoid that at this point based on where the water fund is but there's an opportunity to try to raise additional revenues for the upcoming fiscal year of fy2 to try and dig out of that hole so to speak the retained earnings of the water Enterprise fund uh get viewed by the bonding companies separate than the overall Town budget uh and town position on finances or is it tied into it and would it so if we want it to a negative position on retained earnings if uh would that impact our bond rating do you think no I don't believe so I'm sorry it's a separate Enterprise so it's run as its own business so it borrows money under its own credit rating and not ours correct okay and what would that do if we went let's say we did go negative I don't know 100 Grand 200 Grand whatever the number is uh what would that do the operations of the business could the business then borrow from the town I think we've loan some money in the past to these operating entities haven't we occasionally yeah I think if you go back it's a guess but within the last 10 years there was some borrowing related to the Sewer Enterprise fund um that took place at some point yes yeah yeah I recall those days okay uh board members Mrs Rush um I don't think I have too many questions I mean I know it's a lot but we have a lot of water projects that are necessary and important that are coming up so I understand that it has to go up um yeah but I know it's going to be hard for people to pay too so I don't think I have any questions we have the full report here Mr Clark so if we Revisited the 17.5% I know you said it doesn't seem viable but what would retained earnings look like under that how far negative would we go proximately Mt we don't need exact numbers here scale so the this the regardless of what rate change takes place for FY 25 I think that the projected amount for the next certification which is is really related to the current fiscal year of FY 24 so the rate doesn't have an impact on where um retain earings will end up in the next certification so whether it's 17 and a half whether it's 40 presumably retain earnings went up in a similar place for the next certification and we have that as right now just over $200,000 in the negative okay 200k in the negative yes and and we talked last time about there was no like fines or penalties for having negative retained earnings right that is my understanding but I believe Dr will expect the town to take action to try and remedy it as quickly as possible yes okay anything else um yeah I I I mean this this is tough because like the 40% seems like a like a non-starter to me for the residents but I also recognize that we do need to support our water department and these projects I think we've looked at the capital projects over the next couple of years you know and I know not everything was MW but that's been discussed I think there was a lot like the the storage tank at the school water main Replacements can you guys just like elaborate on you know how we're prioritizing those things can some of those things be shifted around to you know provide us some relief in this so things can be shifted around obviously invest is going to have to be made at some point so you're just pushing it down the road so it's a policy decision now of you know do we pay now do we pay later how do we want to manage this account but eventually the work needs to get done the the infrastructure doesn't get newer it doesn't get better it just gets older and needs more work as we go along um we know that we have regulatory requirements that are coming down from EPA that we're we don't meet that are going to come soon um we know we have infrastruct aging that needs to be replaced so it's not a question of you know can we push it down the road sure but we're gonna have to do it eventually so um you guys can make the decision about how we fund it but eventually the work's going to have to get done and Bo the chair sorry nope you go who the chair um also a couple of these are regulatory requirements like the tank is being pushed by the DP for probably the past six years they have asked us to come up with a plan to rectify that so we've trying to extend it and extend it extend and we're nearing I think the end of our allowable extensions yeah that makes a lot ofense sense yeah this's the front here I just you know I I'm not going to do 50% I don't really believe I've been looking at the figures and I I think 40% is the right number unfortunately and I do think it's it is unfortunate but I do think that's what we're going to need to do Mr Man yeah no I I think 50% is outrageous and I'm sure residents will find it that way there uh we need to stagger it and uh I I I was looking at 15 20% tops and maybe staggering for subsequent years so how do you manage that obviously you're going to go negative on retained earnings as I'm hearing right but uh are have you explored other creative ways of financing uh for example we have um about how much was our um free cash this year almost 5 million or so so we have remaining from there and maybe Kyla you can help is there any way we can subsidize this for the first couple of years until it normalizes in terms of yearly rate hikes if so um you know how can we be creative on that sorry no so apologies but the Enterprise has to run as its own business so any kind of borrowers if you borrow from the town they have to be paid back okay so you have you do have to make that consideration yeah that's a great Insight so if we run the scenario and say we hypothetically we are going 15% or 20% and that creates 200,000 100,000 in gap right but it doesn't impact our bond rating it doesn't impact the material spending right now but it's an ongoing carry over uh negative retained earnings but we have to at some point fill it up either from additional earning or from town approved some kind of budget I I'm losing you know the scenario because of lack of information but have you run these type of scenarios essentially let's assume we don't want to go 50% we want to go to a more reasonable percent how can we make it work you are the experts Skyla you are the finance Master help us make it work how do you do that any ideas right now or do you want to take some time and do some research and Analysis and get back to us with your advice so so honestly if you're going to borrow free cash from the town it's going to take away from from other possibilities that you're going to do with the town such as if you wanted to make additional payments on the existing debt or something um or on capital projects Etc in order to reduce the amount of debt that you're going to incur or we are going to incur in the coming years so it's a give and take and I think that's what the consideration is at this time we did run numbers um 40% is the ideal so 40% is going to get us where we need to be in the ideal State at the absolute minimum and I'm saying minimum because it will just get us in the positive very little in the positive is a 30% number but again that's not going to have any Highway for any kind of projects or any kind of emergencies that the town may have in the coming year understood that's that's why I'm asking these questions because we want to understand you know the risks and the scenarios that can be worked out or may not be but I appreciate that um I don't know I'm still 30% is better and I would probably go for something like that than 50% but I I still you know kind of feel uncomfortable able when we are actually seeing taxes getting raised for good reasons and uh it's not exactly that we are just you know uh using a credit card for fun or party these are very much Essential for the quality of our uh quality of our life of our residents quality of our town our Town's continued Excellence which we all want it but we want to do it at a highly prioritized basis that we can manage handle going forward and knowing that we have MW and other coming up um or you know more work on existing infrastructure whatever we decide in the future um I I do see that the water re water Enterprise fund is going to have a very difficult next few years so something to you know creatively think about I I I understand that no money is free money so if we take it from free cash or our Reserve we will lose spending it on something else but that's the question I think we all need to solve and decide that as much as we can mitigate the pain on the taxes I would be for it but and there was also um I just want to reiterate something that Matt said last meeting there was also um preparation for this rate increase in last year's meeting where everyone was preempted to know that the rate was going to increase significantly going into this year so it shouldn't be that much of a surprise for most Fair Point anything else no I think I covered what anybody else um one last question so if we went with the suggested 40% you know how much confidence would we have in what the rate increases would look like next year or the year after so in my mind 40% is more of a short-term thing meaning we're trying to get retained earnings built back up to a healthy level we're trying to cover the current operating situation there are capital projects on the horizon as Carrie mentioned um so in order to fund those capital projects as currently in the plan there would be a need for additional large increases going forward Beyond just the 40% % So based on the current capital plan as it's currently constructed we're fores seeeing another additional decent size increase on the water side especially with the MW connection as a strong possibility okay thank you at the end of the day um have the residents of Hopkinson over the last 20 years paid far less than the average mun uh uh water uh bill in Metro West and other communities or uh you know and now it's we're it's catching up to us or is this we're already very high and we're going higher or where are we compared to others I have not looked at that for comparison are you aware in my opinion we're below or you know pretty comparable to other folks Ian one of the reasons you know like we have to appreciate the value of water it's essential to life like it's something we need to invest in when you look at this even with the 40% cuz 40% seems like so much the average bill is still about 40 some odd $45 a month I pay more for Wi-Fi I pay more for electricity $45 a month for something that's so essential is a great value for what we're getting when you look at the cost per gallon it's pennies when people go and buy a big giant thing of Poland Springs for $20 if you fill that up with our water it'd be you cents so I think people need to appreciate the value of water and how much you're getting for What Little we are investing right now I mean it's considerably compared to any other private utility um even Public Utilities this is a great value so um but comparatively you know MWR MW communities pay a higher fee and we're going to see that going forward it's a because you're paying for that um but I would think other communities about our same size it's it's comparable I don't know if you know any if I could do Mr chair um one other big aspect of this is through the years the um retained earnings has been used to artificially deflate rate increases so a lot of those earlier rate increases have remained a lot lower because retained earnings we use and that's not really the purpose of retained earnings it's to use for the capital projects and the other stuff going forward okay all right anything else anybody have any ideas suggestions anybody want to try to make a motion here to see what we can do with this rate from the water I guess I was just going to add it is really important that we that we don't go as low as possible that we need to have money like Carrie was saying for emergencies things happen in the winter we need to fix them you know we we can't keep putting things down the road we've had a lot of problems with our water system we need to invest in it so that we can have clean water so I am in support of the 40% increase even though I I really don't won't enjoy paying it I think that that is what we have to do this year does anybody care to make a motion I would make a motion to set the water rate for fiscal year fy2 with an increase of 40% effective July 1st 2024 as follows where is this section just scroll back in the document here so these cubic feets and dollar minimums we can figure that out after the fact that's not the major decision here the decision is the rate increase is that correct okay yeah I think we can just those yeah those were in K's memo they'll get calculated what's that or as written say it as written in the document or packet there's a motion on the table is there a second um can we amend the motion to the other reasonable but manageable you mentioned 30% was it who you mentioned it or I will mention I like that number can you help us justify that well it's not my recommendation I'm saying that that will get you out of the red but if there are any emergencies in the town you're going back in the red so help me understand that what type of emergencies are we talking about if it's in a capital emergency we'll have to handle it with capital anyways right the retained earnings is never going to be able to pay for MW uh costs or even the new if we need to um um we won't have any money to we won't have any money to do anything we will literally have pennies we'd have to borrow from ourselves at that time but we have the operating budget already we can do we could find the cash but we have to borrow from ourselves the Enterprise fund has to come to us we give them the money and then they're going to have to pay it back so it's going to add to the debt position you know it's going to add a little bit more pressure down the road but living on the edge is probably not a bad idea but we have a motion on the table had 40 in it are you willing to adjust that 40 Amy or you want to stay put I'm going to stay put someone else could make a different motion okay so we have a motion on the table is there a second for 4 second we have a motion on the table a second at 40% discussion on the motion on the table please uh Amy we know where you're at Mr Clark um I mean what was the I think we talked at 40% the average user cost increase was that the $148 per year yes yes and and what would the difference be at 30% you really have it Kylie are you in front of a computer can you wouldn't it just be a ratio of the 150 if you're going dropping 25% you're going down to 120 or so I I have the difference here I think this is right it's close enough um the difference if if if it were 30% it'd be $111 annually okay all right that helps about it no other other questions anybody else motion on the table um no nothing else I think I I mean we have to do what we have to do if the board everyone agrees um I'd be okay with the experts um recommendation but it's it's going to hurt a lot of people we have seen our low income increasing from 10 to 30% in some of the data over the last decade so it is going to Hur a lot of people and it's just seems that our hands are tied I feel bad about that okay there's a motion on the table it's been seconded there's been discussion specific to raising the water rate uh 40% for FY 2025 effective July 1 2024 all those in favor please say I I I any opposed okay it's unanimous and so carries at 40% item number 12 and is that all we had to do tonight or do you guys want to do the sewer as well sewer okay so talk to us about sewer please okay I'll try and keep my comments brief um so the sewer options have not changed since we presented them to you two weeks ago uh option one was a 5% increase for FY 25 option two was no rate change for FY 25 um sewer is in a little bit of a different financial situation than the water fund the the routine earnings are extremely healthy by comparison um however we've seen a dip in revenues the last few years that's in part because there were decreases the last two years but also we've seen a decrease in sewer flow in the recent past um possibly related to the properties on South Street um just like with water there's there's additional capital in the capital plan compared to when we did this analysis A year year ago a lot more projected debt related to that um so we are showing some large anticipated deficits the next few years for the sewer fund now there is enough retainer rings to cover those but that means the retain Rings would start dwindling because of that so any rate action would help mitigate the use of retain earnings and help keep them healthy going forward what if we lowered the rate what if we cut the rate well last year it was 0% I believe the rates decreased 5% each of the last two years what if we do a third we have not run that for you this year if if we have healthy retained earnings now and we cut 5% out would we still have reasonable retained earnings do you think the retain earnings would still be healthy at that point but with the project expenses coming down uh the next few years it presumably would mean some higher increases in the subsequent years than what we're showing currently right now the projection is 5% every year for the next five years correct yes that is our recommended rate plan so as just mentioned 5% annually is what we're currently recommending so if there's no action we're showing 65% in the subsequent years if there would be a decrease then presumably those numbers would be higher anybody want to make a motion on the sewer rates I make the motion to approve the sewer rates as proposed at a 0% or a 5% increase uh there was Zero options I would go zero 0% at 0% I second that and that was one of the options correct that was one of the options presented yes and that leaves our retained earnings healthy reasonably healthy okay motion on the table in a second to go with 0% for the sewer rate increase or not increase as the case may be any further discussion just one quick question so we have about 4,000 households on Town water how many on both Water and Sewer I'd be guessing go ahead Eric through the chair there's roughly about uh 1,400 sewer connections okay thank you so it would help them little bit some yeah third was there a second to the motion uh there was a Motion in a second I thought yeah thank you any further discussion motion table is a 0% increase I can go either way on this but I I do I like the 5% every year that it's easy and predictable for everyone you know we'll do 0% now but be more every other year after so any but I'll go either way okay all those in favor of the motion on the table for a 0% increase please say I I I any oppose it's so carries we'll go 0% on the sewer okay and there are two additional motions on the the discounts yeah we have two more just with the low income discounts senior just make the motion or you want to discuss let's start with the Motions uh first I would move to implement a discount of up to $200 per year on sewer Enterprise bills for residential sewers system users who receive property tax exemptions from the board of hkin board of assessors under Clauses 1722 37 and 41 of Section 5 and chapter 59 of the Mass general laws for fy2 Effective July 1st 2024 and for residents who received the Hopkinson means tested senior citizen property tax exemption tied to the Massachusetts circuit breaker credit is there a second second any discussion on the motion senior citizen discount to help them as these rates go everybody good all those in favor please say I I any the opposed unanimous and so carries uh there's a next motion uh I move to implement a discount of up to 200 per year on water Enterprise bills for residential water system users who receive property tax exemptions from the Hopkin Board of assessors under Clauses 1722 37 and 41 of Section 5 and chapter 59 of the Mass general laws for fy2 effective July 1st 2024 and for residents who receive the Hopkinson means tested senior citizen property tax exemption tied to the m use at circuit breaker tax credit second we have a motion and a second on the table I have a quick question is this this is budgeted based on the rates that we just talked about in general like assuming this was going to go through is that fair yeah okay so the answer is yes thank you okay great any other discussion all those in favor please please say I I I any opposed it's unanimous and so carries thank you you okay thank you all very much um we have one other topic that may be of interest to you on the agenda which is next which is uh sorry I lost my place here uh water and sewer Advisory Board commission item number 12 so this is one that uh I've been talking about a little bit so I'll just introduce it um this is one that um you know I think what we just went through as an example of why I think this might help um you know I wouldn't suggest that I'm a water or sewer uh expert uh I'm not sure anybody else feels that they are on the board this is a entity a a commission a board that Hopkinson had for a long time and then somehow along the way it got disbanded and rolled into the select board and we just went through sort of Flying Blind like we do every year uh What uh what we have to do with our water and sewer Enterprise funds I think you add to that opportunity or challenge or opportunity to improve the PFS work that Mr Man and others have done a lot uh over the last year or so uh and then you add to that the MW interconnection possibility and the tens of millions of dollars that that would cost the community if we go down that path and there's a ton of work in our water and sewer worlds these days uh so I'm advocating uh and I've done this for the last few months before I came back to the board that we reestablish a water and sewer Advisory Board to tackle those four things PFS MW uh annual rates you know annual projects the whole lot you know infrastructure Etc but have five expertise or whatever the number of people it is uh EXP expert in the community sit on that committee appointed by us and make recommendations to us along with our colleagues from Abrams group and along with Carrie and and Eric and others so that that's why it's on the agenda uh I think it would make a lot of sense to reinstitute this committee and I'm just curious if other board members are curious about doing so I don't think we can solve any of it tonight if we decide it's of interest but I do think I would just add like I know you did the PFS thing and that's a huge piece of it and that's causing some of this cost situation to not it's causing it but just you know the infrastructure needs um adding those other three criteria to that commission I think would make a lot of sense because it's all going hand inand we heard at the PF thing that they're testing our wastewater treatment plant to figure out what's going on with Pas so sewer and water are tied together and you know I think there's a reason why we could put all that into one organization any thoughts Mr Manon yeah no I think uh I agree these are all related and as we have discussed a few moments ago uh about the rates and the pain that uh we are seeing on Aging infrastructure all over so bundling it all together and uh the proposal I had was intending towards more solving the infrastructure problems and especially focusing on pasas and uh help us um understand the options and advices on that doing the research analysis and we have to make agreement we already have quite a bit uh with um our neighboring towns and state a lot of work involved just on that and then it impacts the rates as we have seen and it will continue to impact the rates so I like the idea of expanding the scope uh I I just want to make sure that we have enough focus on uh the past component itself uh because that is going to be the big part in many ways for the next 3 five years at least until we solve that but I like the idea I think we can combine it um the scope and um uh Charter together and form one one body so what I would propose um Mr chair is if you want to um take some time we could work towards building the framework that I proposed and incorporating the scope expansion that you are um proposing I like those and form like a comprehensive um Charter that then we can bring to the board for consideration and final vote and formation great if that sounds okay that sounds great M Le I think that um when we put these boards together or this board it's going to be very important on how we pick the people that are on the boards uh we really need someone from the legislature someone from uh commercial industrial and someone you know and someone from the town at large and uh and we need Professionals in and on this commission and not just throw it out there and have any anybody apply of course anybody will be able to apply but we we really need to I when I was on economic development in Franklin we had a big contingent from commercial we had uh I was on the legislature we had the town legislature plus me as a state legislature and a lot of uh from different walks and I think this is the kind of thing that we really need that kind of representation because we're going to be looking for funds from other places okay big time Joe um I'm supportive of this you know I love the discussion that that's been had already expanding the scope making sure all those things because they're all tied in together they're all critical for this town I mean it's water that we're talking about this is we have to get this right over the next couple years so fully supportive thank you Mr G Bush I I have mixed feelings about it I don't want to create more bureaucracy unless it will be helpful um I think I would recommend that we wait and not vote on this exactly tonight until we have like an idea of a framework and a charge and the components of people who would be on it and feedback from staff and if other towns are doing this and did it help or did it I don't want to slow down solving the beace problem by creating more bureaucracy but if Town staff thinks it would be an asset and would be helpful um I think that would be great but because we didn't have a charge or any other documents in the packet to explain exactly what it would do or and I we did have one in the past yeah I totally agree with that approach I don't think tonight's intent should be to try and vote anything other than introduce it publicly formally like I've been talking about it right for months around town doing other things but now it's time to kind of get down of the business of running it and um I do think that as Mr Man suggested getting together over the next couple of weeks and laying out the framework and talking about what the body would look like and the charge and so forth and then bringing that back to the board massaging it for another meeting or two and then maybe you know hopefully this fall sometime we get into like actually getting going on it but I agree with you not to do something tonight okay so is everybody good with that we're going to table it work on it on the side maybe Mrs Lazarus can help a little bit in some of this work on pulling it together in a document that we can kind of build out uh and we'll go from there I also recommend reaching out to DPW leadership as well that's see how they can benefit from this yeah that'd be great excellent idea okay so we'll leave that there for now U move to item number 13 which is the main street Corridor of project liaison this is another one that's on my list that I want to get on here very quickly uh it's to select board to discuss appointing one of its members especially a on the Main Street quarter project I have not been missing my words about this the last few months I think we need to push I think we need to push hard on eversource on amorello on mot on whoever else is involved I don't see this as getting into the day-to-day operations of town government because this is not town government this is an entity that town government is working with trying to get things done and we're still looking at the same thing we were looking at beginning of this year and at the end of last year and not much after you know mid summer last year uh so I would like to be the one pointed to that if everyone would be so kind uh it's what I do for a living I buy 220 Transformers a year at work I know the Transformer world I know the whole thing and I know how to talk to contractors so that is the suggestion on the table this is something I would like to make a decision on it's either yes or no go ahead and do it Brian um but I think it's an important piece of the puzzle because they're supposed to be coming back back they were going to come back on the 19th now they're coming back after July 4th already the need to go raise a little heck with these folks okay I move to app Point Brian her as blea on to the mass Street Corridor project second so we have a motion and a second on the table to appoint me to serve as a special leaon for the Main Street Corridor project any further discussion I guess along the lines of the other one will be written up exactly what the role of the main street I just told you what it is go raise H okay but just we are not supposed to interfere with day-to-day op this is not the government this is not the town government this is a this is a project right it's not us I'm not GNA go raise hell with Lane I'm gonna go raay hell with Joe am whom I've met and I know Joe and Joe needs to get his guys back out here he's been telling us he's going to come back out here and they haven't come back out here right we're all frustrated so this is this is not a big bureaucratic process it's just me sitting in that meeting with Joe saying Joe I represent the board and I represent the town what are you doing and just pushing them so does that answer your question yeah no I appreciate the enthusiasm and any and all help we can add to it um is is better uh and to Amy's point I think you answered it uh we want to kind of balance you know how the operational uh role um gets into it one thing I wanted to understand um so it would be a leazer to the current project so you'll be working with the project manager and be the uh voice for the Transformers for example going to ever how do you kind of Define it I um just to understand the logistics a little bit so Joe Nolan is the president and CEO of eversource and uh I would get with Senator spilka's office and I would request a meeting with Joe Nolan and I want to know why his Transformers that are coming in been for this project got moved to another project and if we do that every week after a while he's going to get sick and tired of me calling office and saying where are my Transformers and he's all of a sudden going to find his Transformers somewhere cuz they are shipping they're shipping to me I know that they're shipping right so for whatever reason they're redirecting I think uh it happens in the industry uh for a lot of different reasons and uh it's those types of things I would do I would do it always with class and dignity I mean I'm in this profession I know how to talked to these folks but uh if you don't if if there's not a squeaky wheel we are not going to get any traction here this is just going to linger on for another couple of years they've already extended the contract another year here so we're out to July of 25 right now and I'd like to think we can pull that back in if we can't get the Transformers we can't get the Transformers but we can get the bricks in the road we can get the trees up and we can get all these orange cones out of here that we don't need because they're just sitting out here all day and I run by them every morning there no there's no reason for them out there right now so there's a lot of things we can do to clean this up and really start to show the residents what it's going to be like the Transformers are going to be a problem there's no Magic's wand here but I do think if we push we can get something done no thank you again again and thank you for volunteering and one last question is you'd also be um communicating back to us on the progress or any challenges or anything we can help with or any other you know change in plans if for that matter whenever the town manager does her Town manager report and it's always Main Street quarter first I'll chime right in at that time too she and I will be in communication about what I'm doing oh sounds good thank you for volunteering any other questions comments okay there's a motion in the table in a second those in favor please say I I any opposed it's unanimous and so carries thank you item number 14 Town management report M lazers main stre a minute there's more Le on assignments yeah that's not yet that's 15 we're going to do that after Elaine's 14 right here oh 14 Tom ader report Elaine Main Street quarter project please yep so just quickly um as you mentioned mot signed a contract extension for the utility work through July 1st 2025 uh largely due to the lack of Transformers uh every source is on site now working on the overhead utility line transfer work and is 60 to 75 70% complete um and as long as the utility companies respond in our on site in a timely and sequential order the goal is that by the end of September all the overhead transfers will be complete and the old polls will be removed that's on the west side of the project where it's not going underground and also uh Emeral is targeting to be on site after July 4th uh they'll begin work on the south side of the project that will include brick work sidewalk work curbing landscaping and underground utility connections from the property lines to building foundations and into buildings as required and utility companies will continue to work on the North side so be work on the south and work on the North and there probably will be some traffic delays okay uh no update on uh the pest uh this week um and uh not really much to say in addition on the uh mwa interconnection project we have some meetings coming up uh that have been scheduled with Southboro and that's it all right uh any questions for the town manager set all set y okay item number 15 please liaison report board [Applause] invites any liais on reports Mr Manon um nothing much I I think we had some good events and um inter fate went very well microphone please sure not a whole lot um uh I attended the Interfaith event s dami went very well and um I think there were quite a few other events um including the pride uh parade which also was well attended and in terms of the Lio the esbc is meeting tonight and um I'll get to know more probably after afterwards and get back but it's tracking and there are some payments that um we had to approve so they met tonight and um they're approving that but overall it's um going per plan and that's all I have I okay thank you Rael well I mean I'm looking at at the new sheet and i' I've got some different assignments but uh most things are the same I don't have as many as I had last year so that's one thing but I will say that I did attend the um Alpha and Omega and the 26.2 Foundation scholar uh scholarship Awards the other night for the essays and they had three students from Ash uh six students from Ash and six students from hopkington and they were amazing I mean the these kids did brilliant essays and they had excerpts on big panels all around the room it w it was just uh very enlightening and and the future's in good hands if these kids have anything to do with it they were they were brilliant um and just one other thing I I guess uh some people haven't filled out their assignment yet uh I've got seven last year I had nine uh it's a little it's a little hard to know what you're doing but I really would like to be reappointed to the Metro West Regional Transit Authority I have enjoyed that very much in the past year or two so um hang on one sec please so um any other lia's on reports we'll come back to that one not at the moment no all right Joe Lea's on reports just not that yet no no you good on you don't have any yet well not officially um yeah just to Echo what sh J said the Interfaith event at the at the new um the new mosque I guess mosque is the right word at on the corner of West Helm that we opted not to change the Zoning for last year so it was really nice to see how they had done some Renovations and they were very welcoming and then for planning board they met um I think it was last night and they're still working on the MBT M MBTA ziac thing and they they talked didn't make any decisions but about perhaps doing some a plan that was a little bit more paper compliance that very likely to be built and maybe that would be very like very unlikely to be built that maybe that would be easier to pass it to meeting but they floated that idea I don't think there's anything final yet on that anything else okay uh I don't have any to report as you saw I'm not signed up for anything just yet um I think what we need to do with liaison in general Mrs Lazarus is can we get some help from the office for everybody to call in and explain what they would like to do and check it off and build a master sheet and then we'll try to figure out where there's conflicts like if if you see when you want to be fire and someone else is named by fire okay well you still would put your name there and then we'll figure out where there's a duplicate and we'll sort through that together as a board that's the best way to do this I think that's what this was Joe and I Joe I think Joe too we all did that yes so we all selected you guys did great I did nothing fine it up fa point so there's your answer all the blank all the blank go to you yeah I sent mine today as and I saw some come from in come in for you I think the school committee W is an excellent idea I know that's a big one and there's some time there but if that's a interest I think that would probably make sense right for a lot of different reasons so so if you pick yours then you can someone needs to call me and work this out and there is only one Conflict at the moment so yeah so I'm seeing that so shedule did you have parks and wreck last year uh I did not ifan had that okay if if you I think that's the only conflict you're referring to um if you'd like to have that I I think I brought this up a little bit last time I'd like to get the DPW one I know we're talking about this commission for water and sewer Focus but there's still a lot of other road workor projects that maintenance that the town's responsible for it's a large Department I'd like to recommend adding that i' put myself in there yeah sorry there is no DPW committee per se but you asked for the library which I also had I think um as much as I love the library if you want that I can okay um thank you iate that yeah so there are some there are some departments where we have a liaison to the department even though there's not a board per se like we have a liaison for police we have liaison for fire right and and library and other those things like that so we can have a liaison to the DPW but I wouldn't want to duplicate the what what we may do with water and sewer Enterprise funds and so forth right so again I think like the scope of it can shift right but I think it's one of our largest Bud budgeted dep departments so I think it gives an opportunity to where we can help message things that are going on you know in car in car's world so we can always be fluid with it you know after the fact but I'd like to get it on there to start okay yeah I appreciate that I was just thinking to our earlier point I mean um is the Leo kind of for existing uh framework or we can add if we can I mean why not absolutely but the other thing is we are also talking about this um framework for um body oversight governing body that may actually eventually do the work that you proposing to do but I think that's a good idea and I would certainly support it we could probably break it out at that time and what I mean because again there's like road work maintenance that's separate from water and you know what I mean so we can cover all the bases in the short term divy up what we need to later on let's talk you and I about the liais on assignments let's make sure everybody gets what they're interested in I don't know if yours are checked off on that sheet today or not we got the email came in right so let's make sure I did add them that there I'm just so far behind on this one Not Unusual when it comes to this particular topic uh okay so so everybody good with liaison where we're headed how we'll sort this out and I will pick up the ones everybody else kind of is not eager to grab and uh we'll go from there all right uh and I did do MW for years and years but if you want to do that continue with that I'm all for it just well this is my last year you can have it next year yeah um I I did seven years with that I think uh anyway I like future board agenda items are still here I did just cross off item number seven cuz we took care of that this evening the others we've either talked about we're going to be coming back to or we haven't talked about yet but they are front of mine and I do look at these and I know elae looks at them as we're building the agendas and we're just trying to check tick them off here as we go um so please hang in there with us we'll continue to get through them uh I didn't check off number eight which is establish a water and sewer advisory committee we've talked about it but to Amy's point we haven't really set it up yet so I don't want to take it off the list just yet okay uh and with that and I'm sorry we're 35 minutes late chair will entertain a motion to adjourn I move the motion to adjourn here a second second hearing no discussion all those in favor I I oppose we're adjourn thank you very much we have anything to sign this evening y