##VIDEO ID:h9-lB75_FR0## e e evening everyone and welcome to the select board meeting for Tuesday September 17th 20124 I call the meeting to order uh all members participating in the meeting are present in the meeting room the public has the option of attending the meeting in person here at town hall or via zoom using the link posted in this meeting's agenda this meeting is being recorded our first uh uh agenda item this evening is a very quick executive session the chair untain a motion to move into executive session to approve executive session minutes to allow Elaine Lazarus to participate in the executive session and to reconvening an open session and at the conclusion of executive session so we have a motion by Mr Clark and a second by second there the frenier Mr Man yes Mary Jo yes Joe clar yes he Brian her yes okay folks we'll be back in a few minutes e e e e e e e e e e e e e okay all set to resume thank you so uh thank you for that folks uh we are back now for the public portion of the meeting and we'll be begin this portion of the meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance please I pledge allegiance the United States of America the stand Nation indiv Justice thank you okay I believe this is the first meeting where Our Town manager is starting the meeting as the official Town manager so we'll have more input throughout the meeting as we go from our official Town manager um welcome elain thank you item number three on the agenda is a public forum residents are invited to share ideas opinions or ask questions regarding their town government would anyone like to address the board please do so we try to kick this around two or three minutes if I'm kind of waving my phone that's trying to be polite and say no music you don't music me off okay I'm Linda Kimble and I'm from the I'm representing the friends of the hington seniors um I'm here tonight just to inform the board um and the citizens of hopkington of something that occurred recently that um was very challenging to the seniors um I received an email um from the director of the senior center on September 4th um forwarding an e uh a document that she had received from the assessor's office and from Human Resources um stating that um as immediately um the um volunteer hours worked for fundraising like the friends or the thrift shop will no longer be accepted for tax credit hours um so um that was very disturbing to us um we had no idea whatsoever um we also felt um that we weren't informed correctly because this only went to um the director and never came we there was no communication to us at all as the friends of the um Senior Center so um I immediately emailed back said that this was totally unacceptable cable and um I asked for a meeting with human resources and um the assessor's office in a lane I asked them um five days later I heard back they said that we could come to a meeting with them the next day so we had 24 hours to get together it was a great meeting um we did meet I did managed to get um around 20 seniors come to the center um I think we never really established a number but it's impacts about 15 people or something like that um the second phone call I made after I emailed for the meeting I did call um Gail trelli tanelli who is our um she's a volunteer that has run the thrift shop for decades because that those are who I impacted most of those women who are between 70 and 80 years old and um it was devastating we asked if we could make the phone calls they were our volunteers um we had a great meeting um the following week with everyone um they were some of the things that was the Renee the assistant assessor was there she had no idea what the impact that the friends do to keep the senior center running um that we've been doing for decades the amount of money that we raise and only affects the seizures of hopkington um I have also received um um two phone calls one yesterday one from today from John N um we had also called ourselves called Ken spilka's office talked to some Finance people there there said they didn't think the law um would cover that but it's very vague the law it just really does say that um the employees could not work if they worked at you know the volunteers at a Regional School District or a nonprofit um and John did call the sorry Mr did call the um the mun Massachusetts municipalities but he said that he didn't really have a background he did not know who we were and what we did and once he learned um a few more things he would like to go back so he did call me this afternoon and I am going to meet here with him tomorrow we're going to try to get into a I guess it's uh you call in Reser ask for a time and then we might be able to talk to the um director of the Massachusetts Finance director and you know we want some answers of um Can this is are there exceptions in other towns um can we um these are some of the suggestions that John said would it be something that um the selectman could exempt or something like that those are questions we're going to ask tomorrow that's just quickly but you know we're very we were we were upset about the fact that um there was no communication the timeline was immediate um it really affected mentally and financially people of our community um they they're scared as it is as we see in the newspaper in your meetings that the next year 10 years are going to be bad they're trying to all they could do and now you know it's it's gone I know that they're trying to find some um positions for them to but very unique group of people that are very limited in what they can do great thank you Linda for bringing that up thank you for listening we'll talk about it in future agenda items later on the meeting we can't get into it tonight but I'm sure we'll get back to at some point very soon thank you anyone else would like to join uh public forum hi Kelly hello hi hello my name is Kelly Grill I am the executive director of the hopkington senate for the Arts Scott Richardson as a board member uh at the H as well I am a graduate of hopkington High School uh includ in the school system including uh Center school and I'm here to speak about the agenda item tonight around what to do with the center school property I have been working with Dan McIntyre for the past several months on a partnership ideas between the the town entities and the Art Center uh that could meet the needs of both the town and nonprofits uh in the town I completely understand the funding concern uh and the challenging position that the select board is in regarding capital projects and the tax burden to the town and I'm here to urge you not to close the door to the idea of the Town partnering with the HCA and perhaps other nonprofit groups to renovate Center School into an arts and Community Gathering space and in our effort to support this idea we have been reaching out to several funding Partners over the last few months and found a great deal of support and resources these funding sources include Mass cultural Council the office of travel and tourism Metro West visitors bureau Mass creative CPC state and federal earmarks like the creative space preservation act and individual donors and Foundation who understand the economic and transformative impact that the Arts can have on a community we need the town's support to pursue these options further in time to secure both pricing and fund and Dan McIntyre's research shows over the past year uh that the space needs for several Town departments and the residents desire uh to both preserve the building and provide uh community space and as you aware in the past the town worked with a group of dedicated citizens to renovate the Terry barn and Farmhouse into an art center that would benefit the needs of the town and through that collaboration the HCA now sees 30,000 visitors who come through our doors each year to take take a class see an Art Exhibit a performance and the National Endowment of the Arts data shows visitors visitors on average spend an additional $34 per visit in the community on top of what they spend at the art center in places like restaurants and gas stations and retail stores so this equates to an addition $1 million in Revenue that is coming into the hopkington from HCA visitors this number will more than double when the International Marathon Center opens a community space steps from the start of the Boston Marathon is a incredible opportunity to promote hopkington to visitors year round and to increase sales tax revenue to support hopkington and offset that tax burden so I truly believe that building an art community space in the center of town is a once in a generation opportunity just like the library and the HCA were and again I understand the challenges that the select board faces I simply ask that you don't allow the recent Capital investments in current Financial State to prevent us from missing out on a transformative opportunity for our town great thank you Scot I just want to reiterate and uh what Kelly's saying and I like to think of us as partners in arts crime uh so again we are uh on board with trying to see how we can make this work for uh for the town and for the town center and to preserve really what is a a notable historic building in the center great thank you very much it is on the agenda for else Jeff Dy Three Angels way um I'm just a little bit of a followup to Kelly and scottt um I attended first grade in the center school went through 1 through three before being the first fourth grade class to enter the brand new Elmwood School um I would hate to see this historic building um be taken down I'd like to see it renovated I'd like to see whatever we could do including CPC funds we really get to use historic funds out of that CPC bucket so I'm hoping that we would be able to partner with them and a developer uh so that we can save that building thank you great thank you um hi Amy Groves to College Street just wanted to speak as a citizen sort of impromptu um in support of Kelly Grill's proposal um for several reasons and one is that we're working on establishing a Cultural District where people would walk around downtown go from place to place and it would help to bring people into town which you know brings bring some business into town is pretty close to what we think will be the international you know Museum um the marathon Museum um so it can have a good synchronicity there um the other thing is that we always talk about having a place for kids to go after school this could be a good place for them to go um and because the parcel is so large this would still leave plenty of room for a trail back there and in fact and this is just me talking but if we needed to for financial reasons put in some hous back in the back um those people would be probably paying a little bit more money for that property if there's a trail right there you know they'll be right near Main Street it'll be a much more desirable property if we have that and if they're near to an Arts Center so thank you thank anybody else Steve snow 78 Pine Island Road through the chair so Brian at the last meeting I mentioned the foyer that I had requested that had been failed to to be represented they sent it but yet the the foyer comes through with my questions entirely blacked out and um can we get the um cameraman to get a shot of this not no in any case it's not acceptable that the the the foyer rule are specific other words everything is public information unless there's a specific thing and all of this is blanked out it's absolutely wrong and super super simple question criminal complaint was filed January 30th it's a long freaking time ago still there's never been an answer to where it went did the police handle it properly did Joe Bennett throw it in the trash there's no there is nothing it doesn't exist Mariel Kramer asked the question that's here Joe Bennett answered the question it's all blanked out so I still have not been answered my question so I have all this for [Music] you that's the foyer request with all the info on the back and that's the screenshot of this is what you got in response that's the response okay thank you thank you anybody else okay seeing no other takers we will move ahead um and for those of you that are new to that which I don't think any of you are we may come back to it this evening if it's an agenda item we may come back to it at a future time uh stay tuned uh next up though consent agenda I move that we accept the consent agenda as written any discussion on the consent agenda anything won't break anything out I'm trying to find it right now I got too many papers in front of me hang on a second just a minutes yeah okay got it uh everybody good good we have a motion on the table and a second all those in favor please say I I and he oppos it's unanimous and still carries great item number five MBTA communities bylaw Mrs Lazarus if you want to introduce this to us please or introduce this for us uh John guch principal planner is here to talk about the uh process that the planning board and the zoning advisory committee are going through and have gone through to bring um the NBTA communities bylaw back to a special town meeting this fall okay uh to what depth do we plan on going into this this evening or is this just an update as to where we are we're going to get into the weeds about what we support and don't support or just an update just an update on the process right cuz we could be here for hours if we were going to get into the weeds right so is everybody okay with that we're getting an update here yeah okay John please good evening I didn't bring any Maps or anything so I can make it nice and short uh Zach had a meeting last night where they recommended three different proposals to the planning board uh for the planning board to decide on uh one of them is the original proposal from the annual town meeting another one uh includes Indian Brook condominiums and an expanded downtown subdistrict and then the third one includes the same expanded downtown subdistrict Walcott Valley Condominiums and then the carbonis property and the two adjacent Residential Properties uh to that property so there would be three subdistricts in that one so that's going to go to the planning board uh probably not on Monday but at the likely at the next meeting on October 7th so they they're presenting three options correct are they making recommendation on any of those three is Zach making a recommendation so they've ranked them uh they prefer the one that went to town meeting in May as the Top Choice the second choice was the Walcott Valley downtown subd district and then the third choice would be the uh Indian Brook condos okay but that's up to the planning board to decide which one which one or multiple they want to move forward spoke to Town Council today about that and there is a possibility of moving to forward to town meeting to have town meeting choose between the two okay anything else from your Vantage Point uh not at this moment no Mrs Rush questions comments um yeah I just I had a couple thoughts um I just I do want to stress that I think I hope the select board agrees that it is important that we pass something that complies with the law even though I know we all I think we all feel that we we as Hopkinton have built a lot of housing in the last 1015 years and we've kind of done our share for the state but this is still the law that we have to comply with so I'm glad that they have some plans that probably wouldn't get built right away and that we'd have you know some years to absorb this current students we have before these new things might get built so I just hope that we can kind of get behind whatever ends up being the the final plan and I did wonder if I know it wouldn't necessarily have any effect if we should write a letter to the state expressing that we were one of the fastest growing towns for the last 10 to 15 years and we really have built over a thousand housing units compared to many towns have not and that you know that's hard on us that we already did our share for for the time being okay Mr Clark um I I think this is a tough one I think while it's important to adhere to the law which I felt like if you go back to the town meeting that proposed plan was not just the letter of the law but also the spirit of the law um and the town voted it down like that means something I've heard a lot of talk around you know the number of votes it passed by um to me that's irrelevant the town sent a message by voting against it so I hope that we see something that reflects the town's Des desire for this and and what's really in the best interest of the town and what can we support from an infrastructure standpoint moving forward so um it'll be interesting to see these multiple options and how the planning board decides to move forward the I just uh well I'm glad we're discussing it and we're talking about it and uh I know that the town did vote it down but I'm hearing that the state is going to push even harder so I I hate to be looking at a lawsuit but I I really think that there are other communities leaning that way and we ought to look into joining them okay anything else yeah now I think just echoing the same that uh even though this is not probably the most desired one that we all ask for one it but I think being compliant is probably going to be our best path forward um to avoid but I think uh being uh compliant is going to be our best peaceful pathway forward to avoid legal and other uh complications and then the second part is um kind of question but I assume that is the case that uh thematically and philosophically these new options are similar I assume which is that no immediate impact uh in the near future in terms of growth or in terms of new development but obviously there's always a caveat that over long long term there can be changes is that the right assumption cuz I think that's also critical to kind of communicate and portray that this is more for a legal compliance than anything that might impact next 10 15 even I had 20 20 30 years potentially because if there is an existing uh but of course that's Up For Debate I don't want to get there but uh the question is is the new selection in in the same line or there are more or better options um I would say the two new options the two new proposals in addition to the previous one at town meeting are really similar in in nature they're they're the downtown primarily and then generally like a condo uh parcel that is existing developed people live there so it's not uh under threat to get developed relatively in the near future uh all three of the proposals are similar in that vein thank you cuz the biggest concern is if we end up having another 650 or so in the next 10 years that's going to hurt um our infrastructure our school all of our everything that we care for and the taxes and all that so that's where the main concern is and I'm hearing that's what the options should not impact um so again I think um we we'll have to see how the town responds but this is something appears to be a safer path for us Sir John do you mind sharing uh a little bit of the rationale for the three options that the Zach uh committee is sending forward just kind of what's their thinking behind each one of those you just a couple of minutes so we can get a little context for why sure so there's three criteria and I probably said this at nauseum so there's three criteria that we have to meet the capacity the unit capacity which is 750 units that's not 750 that have to be built but that's how many have to be zoned to be allowed um the 50 acre minimum and then the 15 unit per acre density uh across the whole district and so they're trying to balance getting those 50 acres and kind of just over 50 acres so that we're not going too much over 50 getting those 50 acres but then having the other parameters match up so that we can meet the other criteria uh and also one of the things that Zach has been uh working with is finding Parcels that are not imminently developable and so they found these larger Parcels with condo developments that um are already multif family near downtown uh or near the train station and are likely not going to be developed in the next 5 to 10 years because people are already living there um and so that was really the rationale to try and get a little bit from what the people are saying we don't want more development and then we still need to meet the criteria so for an existing neighborhood um that's fairly dense by hopkington standards already is that neighborhood at risk of getting additional density placed on that that parcel or is that density already count towards the numbers so we're just putting it in the mix to to for like the condo unit for Indian for example yeah so or or across from carbon is there like if there's already condos in place do we have to add more or no so no so the compliance is just having the zoning in place it's not actually developing the units so if you've got a development The Preserve Walcott Valley condominiums or Indian Brook those are all developed under special permits usually uh I don't I know preserve was I assume Walcott and uh Indian Brook were um but you'd have to amend the special permit also get the buyin from the owners and it's just this process that would likely not be feasible in order to add units to them so it really be kind of overtaking the whole development and then redeveloping as a multif family and so it's not that you could really add units to increase that density on those uh Parcels right away got it so in theory some developer could come and say okay well we have this zoning so we have this zoning we're going to give you all a million dollars to move out and we're going to tear them all down and we're going to build something that's more dense correct that's a theory correct that's a big Theory that's a stretch right okay all right um anything else you want to share okay so this is going to be something we're obviously going to watch here for the next few months as we get ready for town meeting next year um I think options is a good idea because town meeting spoke and uh we got to be careful with that we want to listen and learn from them um but we'll see how it plays out all right thank you great thank you at some point the planning board will be holding a public hearing before town meeting so people will have an opportunity to comment on that okay yeah we uh did I mean planning board Zach they're doing and town is doing a great job but I think we want to emphasize on the pros and cons of these scenarios like what are we going to miss out what are the legal implications if uh we don't comply um what are the um State um funding that we might be looking at losing uh so everyone understands and also what are the possibility of actually having this developed and what is the risk of the current residence or the risk of having too much pressure certainly a boom of 6750 or 750 um condos I think all those are there but we we just want to be clear that we have all the information on the plate so everyone can make a educated decision when it comes to the town that would be my ask thanks all set thanks everybody good all it great thank you very much for coming in this evening okay item number six on the agenda at 6:35 we're SE of be about there uh so I don't think we're jumping ahead is means tested senior tax exempt El do you want to introduce the topic for us please yes principal assessor John N and assistant assessor Rene chent are here to talk about the annual um review of the board by of the uh means tested senior citizen property tax exemption and setting the annual percentage uh decrease part of this discussion sorry John as part of this discussion could we take up the discussion around the tax credit hours that was raised earlier this evening as part of this agenda would that be within the don't topic know that they're related okay all right fair enough okay not go ahead right so thank you uh Renee is going to take the first part of the presentation on the means tested exemption great hi thank you board um I'm Renee Chen deputy assessor uh here to talk about the means tested senior tax exemption uh so for fiscal 25 we've received 30 applications from residents and tonight we are looking for your Authority um to implement a tax credit of within 50 to 200% of the uh State circuit breaker tax credit so to give you a little background last year um the tax credit was $11,200 for the circuit breaker uh the select board voted 200% bringing that to $2,400 we had 16 approved applicants uh the program crost was uh just over $365,000 to hopkington and had a 1-cent um impact on our tax rate um what is of note this year is that in October of 2023 Governor Healey signed into legislation um a and doubled the senior circuit back tax credit from $1,200 to $2,400 which is index to inflation so so this year um on the the 2023 income tax return folks saw um a maximum available uh circuit breaker tax credit of $2,590 um so getting back to I said there were 30 applicants the board of assessors will be meeting next week to review and approve uh of those applications but in my review and look at the requirements I'm anticipating that 26 of those 30 applications will be approved so now um the select board like I said Can Vote between 50 and 200% of the circuit breaker tax credit so if a vote of 50% the exemption amount would be $1,295 a vote of 100% the exemption amount would be $2,590 which would be an amount similar to the exemption um adopted last year and a percentage figure of 200% the exemption amount would be $ 5,180 um if funded at the 100% rate um the tax rate impact will be within 1 to two cents on the fiscal year 2025 tax rate if uh funded at the 200% rate uh it will impact 2 to 4 cents of the fiscal year 2025 tax tax rate great thank you for that presentation how can we get more applications how can we help more people so we actually did have an increase so last year we had 22 people apply and 16 were approved we did put out a press release this year um we also put sent out a an email blast and put it on our website um and so we did get 30 and as I said I'm expecting 26 out of 30 most likely will be approved by the board based on the requirements so we are up from 16 to hopefully 26 we don't know the rest of that answer we have done a press release we have been to the senior center to explain the program it is included in our um notebook of all the exemptions that are available to Residents so um you know we've we've talked about it when we've been on uh the Senior Center um elder law program before so we've tried various ways to um make sure that people are aware of it is it your understanding or your thinking that there probably are more folks that would qualify if they were to apply well so first of all they would have to meet the circuit breaker uh of which would be if your income and uh if you've paid more than 10% % of your income in real estate taxes and if you pay uh water and sewer you're allowed to add half of water and sewer so they would have to meet that qualification and then here in hopkington they would also have to have lived here consecutively for 10 years and we have't an an asset maximum we do look at assets for the purpose of the exemption of 250,000 so um you know there's always people kind of coming onto the program coming off of the program if they sell their house um you know we we have had folks um what I say seesaw on the program so they qualify one year and they don't qualify the next because then it brings their taxes down to where they aren't within that um you know paying 10% or more so there are folks that do seesaw and one other issue is you are required to file aate tax return in order to be eligible for the circuit breaker and you know some people don't f a tax return if they don't need to or don't pay any taxes so yeah okay thank you this is R Bush um thank you I think just in general I would support doing the maximum of 200% that um this is really a small amount for the rest of us to pay to help people who are really on a fixed income there so I appreciate the explanation and I appreciate that the governor raised the limit yeah nothing else to really add I support it kind of like Amy said thank you for giving the nice overview I think this is something that can help couple people in the town can figure out that Mr Manan yeah no I'm happy to hear Governor Hy actually followed our decision so that's good uh but um my my concern is along the same line I think uh the 2500 um sounds reasonable given where we were but how can we expand the program and uh I was wondering if our Senior Center can offer the tax filing help in some ways as a guidance so there can be more qualified um applicants I mean that's an added uh thought just for the senior center I don't know how much you are involved in that that's one and uh second is I think you know we will look for opportunities to increase but we just increased last year uh now I would focus more on how we can expand it this is a legal requirement right there's nothing from a town perspective we could do to work on the threshold or anything to expand the program is that correct assumption or you think there might be some ways to do that stay law yeah um so I I think that you know we have to work within the framework of um you know the chapter chapter 2 234 acts of 2018 um and we have to work within the the framework of the circuit breaker um but but I'm certainly you know willing to reach out to the senior center and see if we can do a little bit more to to reach folks who may not know about the program you know perhaps next year in the summertime we could do a presentation to the seniors at the senior center thank you yeah that would be great and I can only imagine the Seesaw effect can be really really um adversely impacting many so as much as we can help but thank you thank you for all you do no thanks FR I uh I take my I have my taxes done every year at the senior center and they're very they're very good um and I would I would vote the maximum for this uh I have a question though now you we're adding to the tax rate so this money would not come out of the overlay that's that's correct so this program is funded all within the residential class we are a single tax rate Community but there is a penny well in fiscal 24 a penny difference between our residential and our commercial industrial and personal property um so again it would be funded whether you know it's one or two cents or three or four cents it would be funded within the residential class the rate not the actual tax amount correct like 3 cents is on the rate not on the annual bill right on the TA on the tax rate for for the residential class of taxpayers so it has to stay within the residential class so some people that um you know qualify for the program will actually be paying less and the rest of the folks in the residential class will be paying more so it doesn't change the total that we are collecting in the residential class but it does split it up right good thank you well if we do the 200% and it's $5,000 that's going to get some more attention perhaps maybe that'll help with the participation I think the residents of hopkington in general would love to help those that they can through this program so we would encourage people to get out and give it a go right what's the worst that can be said no but you could try and see what happens uh so with that um anything else you folks want to share with us I know we have a motion we're going to have to look at here no good no Elaine you good okay do you have a recommendation for us on this elain uh I recommend two the 200% 200% okay would anyone like to make a motion I move that the select board adopt the means tested senior tax exemption at 200% of the calendar year 223 circuit breaker income tax credit for fiscal year second 2025 Motion in table and a second any further discussion all those in favor please say I I any opposed it's unanimous and so carries thank you very much for coming in this evening and we got more just just before we leave that issue uh this is entirely a decision by the select board that does not have to go to town meeting but we will be going to town meeting with a warrant article to extend the circuit breaker um in the home rule petition it has to be extended every 3 years by town meeting uh second item um is just informational only so that we don't take any of your time but we also provided you with a memo on the hero act and some uh additional Clauses that are available to the town that does have to go to town meeting for a vote so uh we just wanted to outline this information for you um and then we will prepare a warrant article for town meeting on this as well okay oh I just want to say in these changes are funded by the overlay account yes yes because it would increase the veteran exemptions that are currently given considering we have been putting aside money every year for the LNG plant the overlay account that we can put in less and fund this without any problem correct okay yep y great thank very much thank you okay next up this evening Health Services Department strategic plan Elaine so the the uh the health department Board of Health has worked with a consultant to uh review their operations and uh their aspirations and the needs of the community um and have prepared a strategic plan to present the results of that to the board we're going to get the abbreviated version of the Strategic plan have you seen it oh yeah I'm going I'm following the pack right here right I'm following the tedstone method um the tedstone method you got 30 yeah I have 30 seconds Simone will have about five welcome thank you for having us so you you have been provided a packet and actually instead of talking too much we are providing seniors are feeling the thank you the impact and um so getting into the plan um and I just wanted to thank you for having us um so we present our strategic plan at a time when local health and the Commonwealth is changing dramatically um working with the CDC uh the Department of Health and Human Services and the FDA the Mass Department of Public Health has been charged with revamping local public health so that the services are delivered equitably across the Commonwealth in addition to our existing workload local Health has been instructed to develop and Implement programming in the following F foundational areas um we to um enhance our communicable disease work were to um provide chronic disease and injury prevention work um provide environmental Public Health Services um add Maternal Child and Family Health uh services and provide access to and linkage with clinical care um all of this is you know an unfunded mandate from the state to us um so to get there the Mass Department of Public Health is developing a tracking training and Reporting System similar to what desie um has developed for the schools in the past so tonight you know you can review all of the information you could ever dream of um for the school department and the school district um within a short period of time you'll be able to do the same with um local Health departments um so given this dramatic regulatory strange uh change um the Hopkin Health Department worked with two Consultants to develop a strategic plan that provided us a pathway to Regulatory Compliance the Strategic plan identified five key strategic priorities and action the first priority was to expand Public Health nursing team to meet the Mass Department of Public Health foundational Public Health Services requirements number two was to complete and enhance tracking systems for Health Department activities so that we can feed that data up into the dph dashboard um three was to improve Communications of Health Department's work and impact I would still argue that most people don't know what the health department does um and our job and our charge has been to rectify that um fourth item was to schedule quarterly meetings with Partners um throughout um and stakeholders throughout the community and the last of the five priority items was to expand the Board of Health the five members for better collaboration in decision- making um for example um we couldn't have two um board members here today because we would be in violation of public meeting law so the thought is if we go to five and we we know that we have to do this from through town meeting and Charter um but um that that's something that we're um seriously considering um so that being said turn it over to Simone um so she's just going to focus on this priority one issue we have a short PowerPoint um and then um we'll be done can everyone hear me I'm Simone Carter the public health nurse hi um I think I've met most of you but to those of you that I really haven't hello um so I'll keep it short but basically our vision statement is that public health nurses are among the public health professionals in Massachusetts that will be responsible for and are best qualified to provide the minimum of Public Health Services as defined as defined by the state going forward so if yes so looking at strategic plan Priority One [Music] um we of course can you go back a slide we are we do work with our other partners and thank you all for here for showing up here tonight to support us because we definitely make a difference on the individual level as well as the outcomes for our community um I have included hyperlinks that go to documentation to support um our work we also on the municipal level save both time and money and that can be assessed there and in the packet that that I have prepared for you the very first page is just a brief outline of considerations for municipal government and why it makes sense to have us here I I will let you guys read that on your own time I am just going to give you a picture of what we do um next slide please so the pandemic really put a spotlight on the inequities of all the health care services across the board from public to private and these inequities in plain speak are based on age race income housing zip code and ethnicity with the increasing privatization of Medical Services the Gap um continues to be borne by our most vulnerable the services and the um requirements coming down from the state actually originate with the CDC and the FEDS we have to meet the regulations set out by the feds for dph to maintain its funding these new requirements are purposes driven and they are defined as Sean alluded to by the five foundational Public Health Services it's outlined in our strategic plan next slide so to give you an idea I wanted to paint a picture of what exactly we lost in September of 2024 this is a snapshot of what pum nursing Services were providing this is a six-month snap shot next slide please so you can see here where our time went um it's pretty self-explanatory but 45.2% of our efforts are at the senior center 7% of our efforts were with the homebound residents again in most cases those are seniors um health promotion and risk prevention that crosses all sectors for sure but it also part of that is our seniors um community outreach is 20 uh 18 19% and then disease followup which is the what we all that are sitting here probably remember Public Health which was a lot of um well contact tracing that is actually a very small fraction of the work that we do next slide or a third of the work we do rather so here is a snapshot of the vaccinations which is only a small part of what we do but here's the vaccinations delivered between 215 2023 through 2115 2024 we delivered 663 vaccinations of which 317 went to folks ages 65 Plus date from 2:15 until today we have given a total of 28 vaccinations 26 of those which go to ages for 65 plus so you can see we are concentrating with our decreased level of services on our most vulnerable at this present time I have the capacity to administer 15 vaccination 50 vaccination doses of flu the fall next slide just a real quick picture 21.5% of hopkington residents are seniors as we all know and have discussed at nauseum the tax burden affects all residents yet many of our seniors are affected disproportionately nursing Services provide a tangible benefit for those who choose to remain in town and as we have seen the needs for our aging population are increasing and they also feel increasingly marginalized next slide so just to talk a little bit about what our encounters with the residents look like just to give you a view we are dealing with mental health issues on a huge Spectrum but anything from suicide ideation at the harsh end to depression and isolation at a lower end we are there with substance misuse and in the senior population that generally shows up as someone who is supporting their adult son or daughter who has had a 20e plus um problem or you know issue there and they are looking to support their child their grandchildren they are looking for harm reduction they are looking for assistance just going forward um we do a lot of Elders at risk so that is mandated filing which is anyone who's in unsafe housing there seems to be um not seems there is increasingly lack of housing as we know um I am seeing more and more cases of food instability there is limit access to Medical Care Limited Transportation self harm dementia is on the rise and our seniors especially those that are within the fixed income they have limited access to medication and to their Primary Care Providers they perceive and I would agree that there is a lack of support systems currently to allow our seniors to age in place next slide these numbers I pulled from town um the public documents so these are actual town of Hoppington operating budget um as recommended to balance the budget not the plan for budget but the actual operating budget which was a total of 113 million and change the health department at that time our operating budget was when it was all balanced 432,000 675 which accounted for a total of 38% of the total operating budget next slide in 2024 again I'm going by what I have seen in the public documents I saw when the books were balanced um a total operating budget that was 121 m424 1892 at the end of the day the health department our total operating budget was $ 51,3 186 which accounted for. 42% of the total operating budget next slide fiscal year 2025 I am not privy to those exact numbers at this time planning versus what will be balanced at the end but I am going to take an educated guess and go with about the same number of $122 million when it's all said and done the health department if we are able to procure emergency fun funding and have a total budget of $599,450 gives you resources on healthy people 2030 and the Aging population and the needs for those folks what I would ask is that we hold true to the vision statement that was um that is part of the town's mission and vision statement in 2025 hopkington is an energetic town with a variety of affordable community services that enrich the quality of community life for all residents from youth through seniors and seniors and those on fixed income have borne the brunt of the tax increases I would ask that we would consider through emergency Appropriations and or special town meeting funding our shortfall next slide and then in the future for fiscal year 2026 I'd like us to keep our eye on the population growth grow the demographic changes and the need for increased services and finally I would like us to establish we are one of the few Town departments that do not have a revolving fund we brought in over $200,000 worth of reimbursements for vaccinations we were unable to hold on to that as the health department because we did not have a revolving fund so if we had been able to hold on to that I would not be sitting before you right now however because we don't I would like for you to consider allowing us to reestablish that it will allow it will augment our unfunded mandates and nursing programs that serve our most vulnerable and it will allow us to bill for services and hopefully help our seniors to age in place and I think that's it [Music] questions that was a great presentation very eye openening thank you very much um you we're just starting the budget process for FY 26 uh it will be hard to forget some of those numbers you put up there um I don't think we need to get into a big budget discussion tonight but I do think there's going to be an interest in trying to figure this out um but we got a long way to go with a lot of other things um you mentioned that reinstate the perdum nursing did I miss something along the way there that we had that and we got that had perdum nursing through February 15th of 2024 and that was f a load at that juncture yeah and can you speak to that at all um I believe that the position was funded through the covid uh funding and wasn't budgeted for right they so they were what the one of one of of the earlier accountants was doing we were transferring the nursing the tuberum nurses from um covid Grant to covid Grant to spend those down so we didn't have to return any Monies to uh the Commonwealth and um they weren't transferred and then there was a uh a negative balance incurred um we covered that balance um and then u i remember something about and then at the end of the day like we believe we can cover um at Le yeah we believe we can cover a PRM the two prium nurses in the 2026 budget um it's going to require us to uh um raise our fees um and and and it should be noted that we're losing money right now because we are not vaccinating we are not collecting any um vaccine reimbursements so I had I planned to um earn between 20 and $30,000 this year on uh medical services and uh so reimbursable medical services and we're losing that right now so I think between and and this is a budget discussion for the future but in order for us to to meet you know the the first priority of the Strategic plan that was developed for us we need to consider um hiring two prium nurses if I may I think what what the nursing and the health department brings at this point we don't need stuff we don't need trucks we don't need big things our infrastructure is here it's our nurses that's what we need we need the skill set and what we had so with the prum model it allowed um it was a savings to the town because it was prium so there's no benefits and um they were working according to their schedule and then there were two different skill sets there um that really helped stem the gap for us and it should be noted that Simone's presenting this it's because Simone had to absorb the 30 hours a week that Amelia was providing and the five or so hours a week that Casey was providing so that is how we end up you know we've been cutting services just because we're overwhelmed and then on top of that you know we're seeing we're seeing the largest number of total 5 septic repair well replacement repair requests than we've ever seen um right now we have a backlog in the last since July 1 um we've had 77 people pull requests for Title 5 repairs septic service work and whatever um we have we've been speaking with our vendors and they have a two to three month backlog for because people are actively trying to sell their homes so I'm moving my inspector um who does all of our restaurant compliance inspections around and all of the complaint investigations he's going to work with the um with my well and septic guy just to keep up there and and it's at the end of the day everything that we presented it's a regulatory requirement so we don't have the option not to do the work but then again I would argue that it's unfair that you know the amount of work that we're faced with um is well over 40 to 50 hours a week um we're going back to the know the co days where we were working 60 to 90 hours a week and and that's just the fact so it's great that that's where we're at all good points thank you Mr Mana yeah no I thank you for the wonderful presentation and uh I time to time check in as a over to the Health Board as well and when this happened I had U detail discussion with our previous Town manager and unfortunately uh he felt he couldn't do anything at the time and there were accounting and you know Financial limitations based on the budget but I I think this is very important and as you have brought it up I I was calculating the numbers we are 90% down in our vaccination of our most vulnerable Community that's unacceptable yes and we have to fix it and it's for what 70,000 80,000 out of our 123 million budget and we got $3.5 million back to put in our U Reserve cash or or our um uh unspent unused money so there's of course a lot to do and I would definitely suggest when you come back and we have the budget discussion we'll have more another thing I wanted to also focus on again 21% of our community that's a you know significant number they deserve more and with the taxes going up we need to do more the other services that you mentioned um if you can quantify some of those I bet it would be you know few cents here and there that's my guess given the numbers it's few hundred people probably uh so how can we uh also start planning for that and how can we make all this permanent and I appreciate the effort and we'll look forward to having the grants and having itself funded that's great but in the case of the funds are you know dried up or the grants are not available we cannot have these you know seesaw especially in a public health and a vulnerable population focused efforts so that would be my two cents and I know you'll come back with a with a good proposal in the future when we talk about budget thank you for all the work that you do it really impacts lives thank M fer well it does concern me that during Co we had 660 something vaccinations and we have 20 on hand let me pardon you um I purposely did not pull our Co numbers because that was during a pandemic I only pulled the numbers once the state of emergency was ended so we were directed by the state once they saw what a mess we were all in when Co hit to use the um cares act and arpa funds to keep our staffing levels up with the mindset that the CDC will demand changes across the board we're the only state in the country that doesn't have regionalized healthare home rule and that's where we're going but in the meantime as long and we did better than most States during the pandemic but what it did do was shine a light on the fact that if you lived in Hoppington you got a vaccine and you had access to testing and support perhaps if you lived in Milford not so much and that's just separated by an arbitrary Town Line so the numbers I pulled if I pull the numbers from pandemic it's like an over a th000 like 2,000 3,000 the numbers that I gave you last year was just in a normal working year with one FTE and two perdum nurses so my problem is that we don't have any vaccine for this year any way of getting it I it I have um looked at some alternate sources and working on that but [Music] I I'm going to save the 50 doses that I have for my most vulnerable so that may may mean you have to go to CVS yeah okay and um then I just wanted to say this uh strategic plan is fantastic I I really liked going through it I've learned a lot and the the charts and things that you have um about the population senior population percentages it's very eye openening and uh I thought it was very good and I and I thank you for that thank you one of the interesting things is that we're one of the I think I think we're one of 20 communities that have developed strategic plans for that the health department um so it was tough finding a contractor but we used mapc who the town uses frequently and we partnered with the um um the Colin Center at University of uh uh Massachusetts at in Boston Mrs Rush yeah I don't really have too much to add I look forward to the budget discussion and we can hear about what our finance team thinks about the revolving account idea maybe that would help um with the vaccines um but I appreciate the presentation both those slideshow and the long document we had in our packet so appreciate you guys coming tonight you know we laid a lot on you Mr Clark um thank you this was very helpful I certainly support what you guys are pushing for we need to figure this out um my only question and I know we're not doing budget tonight but do you guys know what our neighboring towns like what their average spend of their Board of Health budget is cuz we were what 4% right give or take they're they're in the same neighborhood or left which is why they have higher needs so we're we are in a collaborative right now um and we don't we're the ones holding that up for the state because we've got Hudson Framingham Ashlin Milford Medway Millis ni natic and two more and there is a variety of spending so we're doing relatively better than Framingham however our framingham's population is even more diverse than ours is ours is relatively at least our most vulnerable seem to be kind of the same demographic it's changing but I would say that we're right with all the other services like that from what the data I have seen most important thing to consider is that if if you know when you have time take a look at the blueprint for public Health the the plan is to regionalize us um just like every other state in the country has done um those that aren't performing will be the first communities to get sucked up into the region this is the discussion that I've had I had with Norman um and this is one of the reasons why Norman really encouraged us to you know to go at you know to go for it um those that are highest performing and we are regarded as one of the smallest high- performing towns in the Commonwealth we uh the flagship we're like in theory once we get to that point um we're likely going to be running through the chair Regional Department can you quickly in one minute explain what regionalization mean not all of us are public health experts so there will likely be a South Middle sex Regional Health Department that will it'll probably or consist of 20 to 30 communities and just like any other um state in the country um that group will actually probably provide mosquito control service it'll have um Physicians nurses um they'll have social workers um and there'll be each Regional Center will be complemented enough so that the staff can meet the needs within that that entire region so you know they'll be environmental Specialists um Dairy Specialists um yeah it it's I mean the you know the one of the other documents that we provided was a list of all of our duties um if I may through the chair um I think one of the things that makes us special is that I live here I have skin in the game I know these people I know these people in a way that a regionalized nurse from Framingham does not know they trust me that is huge they trust this health department and by definition with your vision to even enact a public health nursing position back in 2019 that that gives them trust back in their local government let's do this uh Elaine I have a couple of thoughts thoughts but most important I think you know the town has grown a lot as we all know um can you or the team find us the health department Staffing numbers from 1990 that year 1990 two the census years 1990 2000 2010 and 2020 and let's talk about our health department Staffing with respect to our population growth between those in those same consensus years as when we get to the budget discussion I think I know we're going to get for an answer uh that's probably not keeping up so uh something we should be considering so with that we're going to table this for this evening thank you thank you and uh we will come back to you folks and you'll certainly come back to us as we get into the budget season more detail yes thanks again it was a great look forward to it thank you okay uh next up um we're couple minutes back now but not too bad uh item number eight the sustainable green committee charge revision Elaine please uh several months ago the sustainable green committee appeared before the board and requested uh changes to its charge um the board reviewed it and requested Town Council to review it to see if there was anything that you know needed to be addressed uh Town Council had no comments and no recommendations for change okay so we're back here tonight uh with the original request so we have the original request from from the sustainable green committee and we've taken a look at it we bounced It Off Town Council they are good and now we're here again do you have a recommendation for us on this particular item um I'm fine with the changes to the uh the charge with just a just one wording change and that's that's all just wording as a material or are we talking about ping with there's one um one qualification from Members says be motivated to work in service of our charge I would say the service of the committee's charge that's all yeah it's a little aggressive okay we're good with that um so I'm not sure if do you guys have something you want to present or do you want to just let us go through this because I think we're headed down the right path here so we have uh nothing new in particular um so just to reiterate the sustainable oh by the way Jeff Roland chair sustainable green committee with Linda chess our committee secretary um these were developed as a way to ensure that the SGC was getting active involved um committe members that know what that we're getting into in order to keep ourselves productive and that's where we were going with the uh requirements yeah yeah then anything you want to share uh not at this time okay great um I mean I I think it's interesting that we put a few more kind of job descriptions into the charge basically and what people should and shouldn't do or maybe more so should do uh it'll be interesting to see how that works compared to some other committees that may not have the same uh rules and rs around them and what tenance would be like and things like that but we'll see uh Mrs ritterbush any thoughts on this one no I don't think so you know I think I said I think it's fine to go forward as is a little concerned that it's a little bit too strict but it could always be amended later so I think if I think we should just go ahead with it as written Joe um nothing for me I think it looks good so I support no I I read it and I seems pretty basic changes to me yeah nothing from me either I just want to thank Jeff Linda and the committee you're doing great job and making a difference in our town and really made a lot of progress so keep up the good work and hopefully these changes helps you move forward further and uh I I think this is good change thank you if we were to vote the changes tonight would that be what you're looking for at this time yes okay and I I have I'm sorry go ahead Mary Joe oh I just have a question um the process of how this would work is right now even though the charge is updated anyone applying is probably never going to see the charge so we still have a little bit of a delay issue in that they'll apply they won't have read this they'll get talked to they can maybe withdraw and resubmit their application to show how they have done these things or they're going to come here and you guys are going to say you didn't do most of this stuff so one question is we would be interested in talking with someone from the town about adding or changing a current question on the application form that would apply to all committees and just say read the charge look at the composition and address address that in your application um and that way people would at least be looking at it before they applied and we could save months for each applicant and ensure a better fit from the start that way so if we wanted to do that who would we talk to about it let the town manager address that question for you okay yeah I think uh we can work with it on that but even adding that one question won't cover everything that's in here so we will have to reach out to applicants um and perhaps follow up with them before they come to a meeting to make sure that they've they've checked off some boxes that we we send absolutely and Fuda and I have talked about how that would work for the SGC so we would just talk to it about a wording change on the form the application form uh we could talk about that if that's what we wanted for all boards and committees but it's an application that all receive and not every committee has a charge per se oh I think it would probably make sense for your committee to work through the town manager Office maybe not that the town manager herself but I'm sure she'll delegate it out and I think that would probably be the best efficient way to do it great we'll do okay go ahead okay I I move to revise and change the sustainable green committee as written charge we have a motion on the table in a second to revise the sustainable green committee to the new charge as written any further discussion all those in favor please sorry as written with my change or as oh with the as written with your with your change not our what was it the Committees the Committees that's in your motion and that's in your second right okay with that all those in favor please say I I I any opposed it's unanimous and so carries all set F thank you very much for your help okay item number nine the upper Charles Trails Committee charg in community preservation project funds Mrs Lazarus so um following the vote at the 2023 uh annual town meeting um the select board um discussed um the votes The Advisory votes to disband the upper CHS Trail committee and through a series of uh discussions um decided to ask the upper CHS Trail committee to meet and come up with recommendations as to how uh it might uh revise its charge to address uh the needs of the community uh in the meantime it had also received suggest suggestions from the trail coordination and management committee um so now we have recommendations from both of those GRS for to review so we have two recommendations from two different committees correct are the recommendations the same no uh they're similar but not the same but not the same okay um anything else elain uh no I think uh the board has left it open as to um how to address the the issues and to um make it so that the trail can be built as well as other trails in the community as part of an overall Network okay all right uh Mr Manan thoughts questions comments uh I I'll wait for my peers I think I'll process it a bit okay M lefer I'd like to hear from Mrs Maran okay uh Mr Clark I'm happy with letting first okay Mrs ritterbush I think it might be a good idea to hear from the two committees first I do have some thoughts but I'm sorry I have some thoughts too but I think it might be helpful to have an introduction from from the upper Charles Trail committee from the Char upper Charles Trails committee and is there someone from the other committee yeah is there is there another is there a person here representing the other committee fair enough thank you Linda Jane please uh thank you for having us tonight uh Jane Moran chair of the upper Charles Trail committee I don't know what that is um this is a a short um introduction and a very brief summary of what we've been up to lately and then um I feel it's important to hear from some of the other committee members who are here tonight and so they can briefly come up very briefly after I'm done so the upper Charles Trail was approved by the then select board in 2012 as part of a five Town Regional multi-purpose trail system tying hopkington Holliston Milford Sherborne and ashin into a 28 mile Loop so why does hopkington need to be part of this Regional Trail system it will provide safe passage for our residents of all abilities by getting folks out of the cars and onto the trails it provides a safer route for cyclists and has the ability to connect neighborhoods connects to major landmarks and historical features in our town it would connect hopkington State Park to the Milford upper Charles Trail it would provide safe passage for our school children and uh to the school campuses together it would connect the center trail hopkington to the center Arts to the downtown to the town common and it would be a highlight and a destination point for our community another reason currently there are lots of state and federal monies available for trail engineering and construction so over the past 10 years the upper Charles Trail has already been awarded multiple grants and if allowed we would continue to make these applications so that's good for our budget it wouldn't cost anything at this point as you know as a result of the annual town meeting with the article 47 and 48 passed the select board suspended the upper Charles Trail in the select board's message at the time the committee was to discuss what the committee has accomplished and what remains to be done in addition to advising the select board on ways that we can improve so our accomplishments um the committee developed an 11-page document that lists the dates from 2012 until the president that um shows specific public Outreach documents created Property Acquisitions meetings with major stakeholders grants that have been awarded to us including CPC from the town this committee has also created a conceptual plan that is displayed in a map that also serves as a document needed to qualify for further funding this map is also referred to as an enf which is the Environmental notification form and I emphasize that this is a conceptual plan only it is not set in stone by any wayte shape or form it is a map that goes before the state D the Department of Environmental environmental um um plan and that analyzes the Wetland issue only and they the reason why they do that is because it has to be able to be flexible it has to be able to change beyond the state looking at this plan it has to be passed off to the select board for approval and it has to pass the sniff test by the residents of hopkington so this enf no way in shape is a set in stone it's purely flexible so what is left to accomplish further engineering and actual construction we have our conceptual plan 100% done that's done so ways to improve the community we spoke a lot about this in our meetings and we know we have to improve public Outreach regain the trust of the community and through better transparency and communication so we did this by um we came up with this by having five meetings over several months so a brief summary in the march of 24 this year we um discussed the scope of work the process for undertaking that work and to consider the committee composition that was pres that was directed to us from um the original select board that suspended us so March 20 we discussed the charge specifically the committee agreed basically to keep the current charge because the committee agreed that the center Trail should remain in the charge add is a historical significance to the town in addition it provides continuity from the school campuses to the downtown area um the committee extensively studied the other side of um Ash Street hoping that we could find an alternative because it was always concerned about having that just one way on Center Trail we discovered over several years of study that it's just too highly Den densified in that on the um east side of Ash Street and there was not enough townland or open space to do that and it it just wouldn't compare to what we have with our Gem and the center Trail on our April 3rd meeting uh we discussed the three Redline documents two from the TC CMC which is the trails coordination and management committee and one from the select board member um Mr nazarella so the tcmc documents were read and we discussed them the committee discussed being combined with the tcmc simply put it would make the upper Charles Trail more of an advisory committee to the tcmc we would be doing all the work and yet we would be having essentially no vote in the final outcome we felt that the two committees have two very different scopes of work and purposes so we went with Mr nazarella is um suggested Redline document and to keep the two committees separate and offered he offered um suggested changes to the membership and term limits on our April 24 meeting we continued to discuss the purpose which consisted of changing words such as path roots and to include items for future agenda items to be separated from items for the next agenda we thought that that would help with transparency purposes under the procedure the positions of the treasur and secretary were discussed and the inclusion into the minutes of the meeting the practice of documenting this is interesting documenting any decisions made to include the decisionmaking process as well as um the reasoning for why that particular suggestion is accepted rejected actioned on or other and incorporate that into the minutes of the meeting so that people who can't make our meetings can then go to the minutes and understand what our thought process was on the May 15 U meeting we continued to um discuss the the charge and we F centered on the composition I of the memory the members the summary of this meeting was that the committee settled on seven total voting members one of which is a liaison member from the Conservation Commission and the second would be a a liaison from um tcmc very important we need to get the tcmc input and we felt um that they should get our input to hopefully they would be able to include a liaison member from our committee but that's up to you folks and the tcmc to discuss that we also added a new paragraph in the same uh block that says select board reporting so the upper Charles Trail shall be responsible for providing a semiannual report to the select board no less than um semiannually and be comprised of four forward looking objectiv accomplishments for the prior half year specific Community engagement activities and learnings decisions that were made in the prior half year including a Treasures report perceived risks and challenges and any specific requests that the select board may have the discussion moved on to um the charge that's basically stayed the same with with some minor word smithing and Corrections on the August 28th meeting we discussed uh the total charge document and made the final changes there was one Redline document so that it's easier for you folks to read and then a clear a clean version of the same document that would show how what how it would look again easier for you to understand so in summary this committee agreed that the upper Charles Trail needs to remain separate from the trails coordination and management committee because the purposes are starkly different the Opera Charles Trail committee is to build design engineer and construct a regional multi-rail system that would in we would be included with five other towns the tcmc is an intr Town Town coordination and management committee that oversees all of the small Trails within the town and also their Trail upkeep and management and repairs two starkly different purposes and we also agreed to have um at the final at the end of the day we agreed that we have to have more structured Outreach and to be more focused in our me meetings and to create excitement and more discourse so I seriously hope that you take into consideration um the committee's strong recommendation to um remain separate and if I may approach the board I have a copy of our 11 page document showing our documents just you know that we've been busy over the past 12 years not sitting around you know ton of work over that's all right my wife would be happy thank you these different than what was in our pocket Is this different no that's separate okay this is oh it's okay so I at this point I'd like to invite so let me let me do that Jane um does anybody have anything they want to share that's above and beyond what Janee has shared specific to the upper Charles Trails committee new information please this isn't town meeting where we have to kind of all get their chance at the mic to kind of hang out and say our thing so uh Jamie brona I've been an alternate on the upper Charles Trail committee for a couple years now one of the biggest changes that I think was most important is that we wanted to focus that the upper Charles Trail is accessible to all ages and all abilities so focusing on meeting the entire town of hopkinson's needs when it comes to this Trail great thank you anybody else with additional info Linda please hi Lind to CH 11 School Street on the secretary on the um Trails coordination and management committee and I just want to say that I don't feel the purposes of the trail committees are so different as expressed in this previous presentation by Jane um we view ourselves as responsible for all the trails in town we do currently have trails that connect with other towns it's part of what we look at we hope to have a master plan that covers our Trails there's nothing on the upper char Trail that's different really except that it's much bigger which is why it would have its own separate subcommittee for the building of it but the upper Trails committee agrees that we would maintain it the the trails committee would maintain it once it was built so that's I just wanted to clarify that we don't share that view of what we do thank you anybody else with additional information I just one thing uh Jim 35 Wood Street member of the upper Charles Trail committee uh I want to make sure that everybody remembers or understands that all along we've uh had the select board's uh opinion that this should be remain two committees if in case tonight I'm not really sure what motions you're going to be uh entertaining tonight but I think that if one of them is to have one committee that doesn't really uh fit with what we've been told before and what the selects are behind great thank you Scott Scott now 175 h r former treasur of the uctc I just have one point of clarification uh Jane had referenced the enf which is the Environmental notification form and the form itself on the site emphasizes a preferred route and it says you have to justest alternates alternate routes and why you're recommending the preferred route so I think it's just important to to know that uh my my position is we shouldn't put the cart in front of the horse okay thank you Ken Parker uh upper Charles Trail so I have a slightly different take that I'd say is probably intermediate between what Jane just said and what Linda just said um my emphasis is that what I would like to see happen is that the trail actually get built and as you well know there are barriers to building of the trail that are primarily this we don't have actual physical control of where we want to build the trail due to private land owners being in the way and I think maybe we should change course and uh work on constructing pieces of the trail uh that we do have access over that would still accomplish the purpose for example of connecting from downtown to Hopkin and state park and uh without uh having it finalized is where the rest of the trail needs to go on the way to Milford because we simply don't have access to the property that we'd like to have to do that just like to point that out thank you hi Eric Sona 60 Teresa Road Vice chair of the upper Charles committee I became a member of that one year after it was instituted in 2012 and the first meeting I went to Ken was chair and the room was filled with True Believers we were going to have a trail it was going to be as good or better than milford's Trail which had just been completed and I looked around the room and i' had been on many committees by that time and I said wow you know these people are really into this so the first question I asked is I said where's the rail trail where is the rail bed and they said there isn't one I said what they said oh no the town never purchased the rail trail and it's now people's backyards and there's houses built on it and there's a little piece here and a little piece there and I said well how you going to have a rail trail and they said well we'll find alternate roots through through uh town-owned land and areas that can be purchased at a reasonable amount of money and the T has indicated it would support that type of thinking and I said okay so long story short 12 or 13 years later after coming up with enormous discussion negotiations finding out and everyone was really into what is a trail and wandering through the brush to see how to do it and talking uh the people like the Legacy people and whatever to get rways and do this we came up with a path and a way to do it we started with a central point the area at EMC Park and the new Marathon on school and we decided that if we started there and went across started at Marathon and went across the up through EMC Park and up the road and we had an easement that the planning board had provided us when they approved the uh Davenport Road uh I think it's Davenport but you know the road across the street from EMC that went down into uh what was left of the actual rail bed and we would connect with it there go behind uh the schools and connect to uh Center Trail which would take us to Main Street which would then take us through downtown which the uh board at the time wanted a trail through downtown to connect that and get to uh uh the common well this gave us the opportunity at that point to tie in Scholastic Cultural Arts Sports and all and downtown businesses and literally put a center together for the trail with the idea that if we had that we could then Branch off and figure out how to get to Ashland and how to get from the uh Milford Trail up to Marathon school and we did that and we had actions taken by the town to U make areas available uh I'm not sure how to say this but negotiate with developers to have easements through their developments to make this possible we did that at that point we had to develop a plan I don't know enf or whatever reason but we had to develop three alternate routs for this and one of the alternate routes was literally a bike path uh uh down Hayden radow and when that was published uh there was an outcry from Hayden row people who didn't want the trail going in front of their house on the road and it became a big discussion of uh safety for people uh on the road somehow that transitioned literally overnight into an article and ton meeting to get rid of our committee after 13 years of work and a plan and that was discussed at a town meeting on the second night the last article at 11:00 at night when the only people that stayed were the ones that wrote the article in the first place and they voted on it and that's how it passed then the existing board your existing board at the time suspended our operation so we couldn't even reply to it and emotions were quite High clearly uh clearly you have a very difficult decision to make do you support people you have appointed who have done their job and worked as hard and vigorously as possible for the common good or do you throw us away and say oh good job thank you thank you okay thank you are we good Mr chair can I one quick folks this is not town meeting I really don't want to drag this out we got it we understand where everybody's coming from this isn't rocket science trees trash and trails three things that drive Hopkin into a tizzy trees trash and trails we're talking about trees and trails tonight so two of the three we're talking about here okay so we get it Bob real quick okay at the microphone please Bob Snider member of the uctc um our previous Town manager Elaine predecessor encouraged us to come up with an endtoend Plan before we went public um and that's the history of of how that happened and I think that that was a good idea so I'm here to um suggest that we should continue to have an end to end plan and we shouldn't think about breaking this up into individual pieces doing it that way let me just say that great thank you okay Jim was it something new and different it's please come on up it's okay we want to give everybody a chance but we don't need to be repeating the same thing break the patience of segments which we've done Eric uh spoke nicely I just wanted to point out that the segment that we've identified as East Main Street to the ashin to Hopkinson Reservoir Ashen to state park that's been Eric and Jane have done a lot of negotiating discussions with all the various land owners and Property Owners uh and had their uh commitments to easements but that's been now stopped and that's just going to have to be done at some point likely uh I assume that they'll still go along with it but I want to point out that the segment from East Main to Ashen a lot of work's already been done that thank okay thank you okay so with that and considering the hour we need to kind of move to a discussion by the board about what their thoughts are on the upper Charles Trails committee the trails management committee I always forget the name of that one there's another word in there um and what we want to do moving ahead does anybody want to start I can if you want please okay um so this is a challenge reading the two different charges and I want to respect town meeting as much as we can I do still see them better as two separate committees although if the majority wants to do one committee I understand um and I I really like the idea of that this one is going to be the big accessible one that um that everyone can use whereas a lot of our other trails are small and not everyone can really use them I do think think and I like that it's a little bit smaller membership fewer lons I think that will be a more effective committee um I I think it would be good looks like almost everyone has expired except um two so I think it probably would be good to start fresh and have everybody who wants to be on at this time to apply or reapply and that we could start fresh with the new Group of Seven um let's see and I I appreciate that the Hopkin State Park um segment is sounds like it's uh doable and maybe that could be the focus for the moment um and then that there's really no hurry to get it all built like Milford did so people are pretty tired of our downtown project I think they would be happy to wait a couple more years before anything gets done quickly on the um over Charles Trail so any so I lean towards two separate committees the way it's written by the um upper Charles Trail Committee in their revisions but um I I do think we should start fresh and reappoint since it would just be seven instead of nine people Mr Clark um so for this one like I appreciate you know both sides of this it's challenging we know how much as Brian said our town loves our Trails um and I don't see that changing my my biggest thing you know and obviously the town meeting votes part of it but I just see a lot of possible synergies between these two committees I think you know if I'm just a resident of the town I want to know what's what with Trails having one place to go would be a lot lot simpler um it would be much more efficient from both you know a committee standpoint and then also just going back to the residents um you know I think you know there was a lot of good comments made you know I think Jane talked about you know the difference in you know charges with you know you were you're trying to do a multi- toown approach to the larger Trails effort and then I believe it was uh Jamie that talked about you know how upper Charles is also meeting the entire Town's needs like well that those two things kind of contradict themselves to me like if it's all the town's me needs then why aren't we doing this all together why aren't we having one committee that looks at all of this and you know M Mr son you know I really appreciated your words around you know not just looking past people that have been appointed to do something I think that's that's very important and in my mind a single committee that combines people from both both does not Overlook those efforts right it maintains the efforts of both maintains the intent of both and allows us to move forward more efficiently as a town that would be my vote okay M leer well my thoughts on this right from the beginning is that it really kind of has to be two separate things one because the tcmc is working in town and doing a wonderful job I love the trails but it is within the perimeters of Hoppington and that's what's in their charge and in the charge for the utct it's a much more Global charge it has in it uh how to work with other communities what to do with other communities how to be together at what to you know and they work with the state and the D and there there's some jurisdiction there and wetlands and things like that that the tcmc usually doesn't have to deal with because they've got their projects lined up and it's really um it's really two separate things we need that we need both organizations and if if they are ever going to come together then we're going to need a whole Global uh expansion of the tcmc to to allow them to move outside the community and be Global too and that would be where the uctc would come in and it really everything if we want to combine them everything has to be Rewritten from the get-go right from the get-go everything okay Mr Manan yeah first I I want to thank thank you Jane for providing this I knew most of these but certainly appreciate all the great work you Eric and the committee has done over decades um certainly commendable and I don't think anyone would disagree or not recognize it everyone is very appreciative as I hear and I certainly am um and I'll go for some of the quicker wins I think the charge overall uh construct and goal and others uh make sense uh I'm going to talk about the structure and um the current kind of um uh difference between the two and I also want to U promote what uh Jamie has proposed that we should be more inclusive and focused on Equity when we build something uh for the entire town so I would recommend adding that um to include people with disability having um access and making it compartible with that that would be a good addition uh now in terms of the uh structure it's it's very tough but I'll go to both angles one is that I think you know we seem to be in a log gam and not even taking advantage of some of the quick wins for example the segment one it seems everyone is in agreement but we don't talk about the agreements as much or have plan and execution path as much because we are so focused on in my view sometimes and uh as brand Mr chair rightfully mentioned this is very passionate topic or talk topic everyone's passionate about that's probably why focus on some of the differences but let's focus on what we can do in the next 3 years 5 years because doing the whole thing and given our capital budget and all the situations is going to be uh unfortunately probably far um but as much as we can do I recommend that and other low hanging fruits where we can make improvements make it more children friendly and I heard there are some good initiatives going on for uh making some of the parts uh Hue trail part uh more children friendly and adding more so those are some of the I think big winds that can bring us together and we want to focus on that uh and in terms of the structure I don't generally have a strong opinion for one over the other but I do want to respect and be mindful of the town's uh voice on this and I here it wasn't um you know fully baked um uh argument about that uh but the other thing you know if you ask me rationally and reason just uh how we should operate I agree with Joe's comment that you know in a town of 20,000 people people and where we are we all L Trails um having two committees and sometimes they're in contention and sometimes there's you know more um tension and U passionate you know differences I'm not sure if that's always productive and it would be probably nicer and more productive having them all in the same room and sort it out and then come with a proposal that we all can work together and work towards and we see all the great minds and uh people in both the Committees so I'm sure something comes out together would be much more productive and implementable in many ways so that's where my um you know mind is but I I think you know we want to break the log gam whichever one we all think works and as Amy mentioned it's almost at a point where we are ready to do a fresh start because of the terms expiring and all that so this gives an opportunity actually to form something new or differently and uh given you know all the great work everyone's doing it's not to mean I I think at least the way I see it to exclude anyone but to be more inclusive and making the umbrella bigger and that's that may be what we need so that's those are my initial thoughts um so let's see how we can work this out um as together because we are having a new charge terms are expiring so it's almost having a fresh start which is probably what we uh would be benefited from but again we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or big passions how can we bring everyone under the same umbrella that would be my my goal and objective and there's funding issues there's planning issues there are uh issues meaning when you have two there's always potential for uh getting out of sync even though some is more focused on local I here what Mar Jo say some is focused on a little more Global or Regional but it's all the trails in one town so we want to see a master plan Master execution and having everyone uh that you know kamarad der to work together and get everything moving together and to me it's not an unreasonable path to have everyone in in one new committee with the same or similar charge and U move move together that's my two sents thank you um so I was on the select board in 2012 133 whenever we first put this in place I don't recall the year I think it was 12 um and at the time the upper Charles Trails committee and the Milford thing someone pointed out and Milford just getting it done there was a lot of energy for us to catch up right and I do remember those days and so we thought let's do that and let's appoint a group of dedicated volunteers to help us catch up and be able to connect and I think over the years the upper Charles Trails committee has done a fabulous job getting us ready to catch up but we're still you know several years out here trying to sort this out not because of the upper Charles Trails committee but because in my view just some organizational behavior issues not the behavior of individuals but the behavior of the organization you're run a business you don't have two sales teams you don't have two marketing teams you're on the town government you don't have two budget advisory groups you don't have two select boards although some people would like that right we have one of of everything for the most part to be efficient and over the years this process has become inefficient for whatever reason and I think it's incumbent upon us as the quote Board of Directors for the business of hopkington to look at the efficiencies or lack of the efficiencies that we all feel and we're all frustrated by and do something about that so that's one thought the other thought is I think this is an opportunity um if we were to go to a a different structure and frankly I think we should disband both committees and start over with same people that want to getting in applying and getting back in um but I think it's an opportunity for us I would actually go with a slightly larger committee Amy only because I think this is civics 101 you have a issue you deliberate the issue you put a motion on the table you take the vote and you move on right we did it tonight earlier with something and I'm you know let's keep it moving let's keep it moving some people don't like that but that's that's just sort of how it works in local government that's how it works should work in broader you know governments too unfortunately it doesn't always happen that way either but you know if we had a nine member committee and somebody puts a motion on the table and someone seconds it you have to take the vote and you take the vote and you move on and if you don't all agree that's okay we had a vote last week I think it was or two weeks ago three to two no big deal we moved on right I think we've as a town because we have two committees talking about the same topics you guys might be taking votes but they're probably consensus oriented a little bit but there's no moving on and I think that if we came together as one we put motions on the table we take the votes it's how it works it's just democracy 101 so for that reason too I think that we should consider disbanding both committees reappointing people with a new charge that includes all Trails related matters including all the knowledge all the learnings all the work of the upper Charles Trails committee and the members that want to join this new committee coming together and helping us sort this thing out um I think uh it's in our best interest to disband both as I mentioned start a new and have a new charge put in place you know that everybody agrees to the the town manager's office and the board will take into account all the information from the various committees about what that charge should be but I think we can put this together in Fairly short order and get going so that can we can actually build a trail right upper Charles Trail and we can actually connect it to our other trails and we can also coordinate with our towns around us in a in a new and I think more positive way so um with that I'll go to the town manager Elaine I know you've looked at this thing over uh the weeks and months probably years now too what are your thoughts and what you think we should do moving forward um I think that uh both committees have done a great job with um with their various charges over the years um um you know upper Charles Trail has done a lot of the U preliminary work and creating the trail and and looking at the overall vision and and connecting from one place to another and the tcmc has grown into a committee that um is creating Trails um and is maintaining trails and originally that wasn't necessarily the intent of it but it's kind of changed into that so their their charges have kind of grown together and I think also um you know we have a lot of residents who want to get outside and and enjoy uh the natural resources that are here and so the the more Trails we can provide that are connected that are open and available to everyone the better um also you know the two committees um you know in the last couple of years they uh were competing for the same state grants which made it difficult um and so maybe hamper the town's ability to get to get a grant because uh they were competing um competing entities for resour sources there and I think it's time to work uh for the upper Charles Trail it's ready to proceed toward implementation as was discussed before so um with the work that the upper Trails Trail committee has done you know it's it's moving I think moving to the next step which is implementing it um doing what we can I liked what Ken Parker said about doing the pieces and connecting them together um but it would be great to have one group I think doing that all and everyone working together and not at Cross purposes would be helpful okay all right any other board members have anything else they want to share I was just going to add if it sounds like we're leaning towards the the one committee with two parts is that correct I'm sorry it sounds like the consensus is to do one committee with two parts right to redo right one committee with one part disband both yes one combined one committee with have one combined but with combined charge goal two focuses yeah okay and so the trails committee at tcmc drafted that s sort of um charge is that what we're looking to vote on tonight well I don't know if we should necessarily vote on the charge tonight I think the idea of disbanding both and putting it into one group um needs to b a little be kind of massaged a little bit more perhaps I think the idea of I think the vote to disband this evening would make make sense frankly because that sets a very clear path forward well very muddy path forward in some ways I guess but then we have to say Okay Elaine and Company please go work on this charge for this one committee then she knows what she's got in front of her okay so we're not we won't be voting on the charge that similar to this that's in the packet okay but I guess one key thing I wanted to add that I thought was missing from the tcmc version was that the statement on the accessibility because so many of our trails are small you know and wooded and they're hard for people to walk on if they have any kind of mobility issue so I just want to make sure that the element of accessibility is in there for the uctc part um definitely be part of the charge yeah and I I do agree that the disbanding the both and starting again with the revitalized committee would be a good idea not showing a preference to one um right okay so I you know we have a motions packet the Motions packet are obviously suggested motions um but maybe we could move away from that a little bit to not get too far ahead of ourselves um what if what if the chair were to entertain a motion to disband both the trails management and Coordination Committee is that correct coordination and management coordination and management committee and topand the upper Charles Trails committee uh until such and and and then recreate and then create not recreate and then create a new committee a new trails committee for the town of hoofington that would include nine members do we want to say the number now or ask the town manager to come up with the number uh uh okay we can scratch the number I think we make the path towards the new committee so we can go about you know disbanding and then asking elain to reconcile this come up with a proposal in the next one for the new committee we had nine members seven members okay fine we we'll back off the number okay so to create a new committee with a new committee charge to maximize the trails opportunity for the residents of hington something like that just one uh add um on the side is we want to act on it quickly because there are a lot of activities that the both committees are currently doing and we don't want to lose the momentum so um I I think as quickly as possible no pressure L but yeah I'm wondering if um disbanding for example the tcmc right now I me they're busy doing things we I don't know if we want them to stop doing that we want to wait and disband them until the when the new one is created rather than ahead of time is that fair and Equitable though to do it that way well I think if we if uh the board lets them continue what they're doing until this new committee is created they at least have you know they have work ongoing already okay then maybe how how about this then how about we not vote to disband anything this evening but we all agree when we get back together at the next meeting with a new charge for a single committee that is what we're going to act on we're not going to relitigate tonight right basically the decisions here that we're going to do something different and it's going to be a single committee and at that time we'll do some motions and and get it done yeah through the chair should we at least do that motion so we don't fall back on litigation again I would love to have something that says we're not Rel litigating a Trails question in hopkington well why why don't we like because again if we're if we're prioritizing putting this on the next meeting and stuff yeah like we're talking about what's going on in the span of like two three weeks is it three weeks now don't we have a couple do we have oober 1st is the next meeting yes we'd have to post the openings and people would have to apply so there's a little bit more delay than one meeting yeah I don't know I I think I'd love to know what they were going to work on in the meantime and if that's going to detract from the conversation that we just had okay so then how about if the chair entertains a motion to disband the upper Charles Trail committee um craft a new charge for a single committee that will be put put in place uh when voted and at that time the trails management and Coordination Committee will also be disbanded who Moved what does that make sense like I'm trying to at the same time disbanding both but the operational aspect is something we need to take care right well I was saying disband that operational one at the time we put the new charge in place for the new one okay so it's leaving it in place for now I don't have my words made sense L but yes you got the gist to it right conceptually it does I think and let's see how everyone feels about it okay so we have a motion on the table I think correct me if I'm wrong to disband the upper Charles Trail committee this evening to charge the town manager's office to coordinate and collaborate with others to create a new trails committee charge including membership Etc and when appropriate the trails coordination management committee will also be disbanded at that time well that the new charge is intended to replace that both committees correct correct absolutely so does that motion make sense yes it's only to make um manage the risk of the operational risk right the other one so we are honoring the equity aspect of things or trying to without implying any risk of not managing the trails operationally that's the intent I just wanted to clear yeah we're trying to keep things moving that are moving right now so we don't disrupt them but also everyone understands both will be disbanded and we will start over yeah I think so there was a motion on the table for that so there's a motion on the table for that approach then I would second okay for discussion we have a motion in the table on a second on this motion let's make sure we understand the motion just to make sure we're very clear here because I'm Not Who someone else should describe the motion cuz I the way I understood it is that we are now in agreement that we want to create a new one committee focused on both the work that tcmc and uctc are doing today and likely more to be determined but definitely not missing out our vision as well as our operational and other good things that we do we all love our trails in doing so we are trying to do it in stages so we don't imply any risk on any operational thing or any maintenance thing that's necessary or happening on the current Trails by tcmc so for that the essence is that we are going to disband the immediate one is uctc but create a new charge combining them together and until that charge is done and formed we don't want to risk the operational activities so we are keeping tcmc for now but we are in agreement that tcmc will also be disbanded once we have the new charge I'm just clarifying it for ourselves and for for the town and residents and I I think that's what we meant unless there's something I missed please I think it's an excellent explanation thank you any other thoughts on the motion on has the motion is fine with me but I did just wonder if there are operational things that the uctc needs take care of before they are disbanded to like their open CPC applications I'm guessing it's by Ken is raising his hand l can you speak to that uh so CPC has written to the board for guidance on that and then and when we create the new committee the board presumably could um could in that charge or in in its vote um indicate that those projects for CPC can either go away or be transferred to the new committee so they could be transferred to the new committee and just I can speak with Ken about whether that's okay so I would like to incorporate that with the idea that project project would be trans yeah I think that makes sense thank you for bring and each of them has a budget appro so that would also have to be something to discuss and um since we have the leaders here do we want to give an opportunity if there's any other operational risk on uccn let's just go through round one here and we'll come back out Mr Clark yeah I I think incorporating all those things felt like Elaine just mentioned budgetary needs right like I thought the the Assumption was that those would get combined right that each of a separate budget right but like yeah once they merged into one okay so I'm I'm good with it as is okay M Le frer I do both committees have CPC money right now not being used okay H we're being used a current project I just I feel like the CPC money ought to go back to the CPC and that people that the whatever comes together should then apply because there's engineering there's all kinds of stuff that gets presented to the CPC that we're not going to have so there could be some legal issues with that so let's let Town staff sort that out and laye check with Town Council on that good point but let's figure that out I my sense is that what's been appropriated and set up is set up right we'll have to just move that but not take it back okay anything else no I think that okay so we want to get some input from without retiga cuz you can see where we're going here here from anybody that would like to share some input with us on this topic anybody specifically on operational concerns spe yeah on the operational concerns of this transition that we're going to go to Mr Weiss men Ken Weissman 145 a street speaking as chair of the community preservation committee I just want to make it clear that you just kind of brought up we fund we fund both these committees and they both have ongoing projects some of half done I mean town meeting approved these projects you make sure you have a path forward because you know I as chair of the committee I sign off on every invoice that and also the chair of of the two committees would sign off on it but you know on on segment one uh with the Opera Charles trails that was approved two Town meetings ago two Daniel Tron meetings ago nothing has been spent there's if we got the engineering done we'd probably get the construction paid for by the state because because the state's got a lot of money for that right at this time I mean I don't want to delay it I don't want to bring make things happen six months or and wait another town meeting for this type stuff segment one is ready to go as an individual Standalone Trail it would be a great Trail will definitely make make sure that Town Council weighs in and make sure that any Appropriations are not disrupted uh and we figure that out as part of this process okay thank you thank you anybody else okay I think we're ready for a vote so we have a motion on the table to disband uctc keep tcmc moving till we get to a point where we have a new charge that will be at our hopefully next meeting and then we can vote on that at that time that committee would be disbanded as well and we'll have one committee moving forward that will take votes and when you take votes you get things done you don't have to have consensus we got to get away from that notion of consensus in local government it just doesn't work so uh with that uh all those in favor please say I I and he opposed okay it's unanimous and so carries thank you all and thank you all for coming tonight and listening uh and working with us on that and providing your input I know it's a tough issue uh my sense is now that we voted my s is as we put this new charge together we open it up to the number of people whatever that number is that everybody that's passionate about this process certainly welcome to apply and I'll bet you a lot of folks will get what they're looking for which is backing that process and keeping things moving ahead okay let's move on to the next topic uh the Center School disposition I believe Mr McIntyre is here this evening he was here a few weeks back and he's here once again to give us an update and kind of share his thoughts on what we might want to consider doing next welcome Dan good evening so it's been almost two months since I was here and dropped a lot of information in your laps and I'd really like to hear some feedback from that information but it might make sense for me to do a quick two-minute recap of uh what we presented so we're kind of all on the same page so our committee did a need study that determined that the growth of the town and the growth of town government has just exceeded the ability of this building to serve town government anymore and we need we need a new town hall uh the good news is Center Schools available to meet that need and in 3 years Elwood will be available as well both of those sites can meet the need for for the town departments um and both of those sites are going to be expensive projects that whether you choose Center or elet you're going to be in the $50 to $60 million range to build a new town hall and that's just not a prudent uh financial decision to do in the foreseeable future so money aside though we feel that the Elmwood School site is the preferred Loc location for a new town hall it's it's larger it's got more acreage it gets us out of the Town downtown congestion um and we don't know all the future needs either there there are things out there that we don't even know we need yet and the largest site at Elwood is a is a big plus so we we hope that the select board will take Elwood into consideration in its long-term capital planning uh that leaves us with Center School what do we do with that uh the simplest option is to sell it uh that gets us out of any Capital expend on expenditures on that property and it puts the property on the tax roles so to that end we invited biders to provide rfps for buying the property but as we presented last time we don't feel we got good value for the bids that we got on that property we we think uh the town is being well we don't think we got good value uh and we would hate to see the town make a decision a shortsighted decision based on the current fiscal crisis so we offered a second solution which is a much smaller project at Center School at a greatly reduced cost uh essentially create a community center at Center School which would serve as a destination and Gathering point for the downtown uh parks and wreck Youth and Family Services and the Center for the Arts are a good fit for the downtown area they provide many programs throughout town for residents of all ages and and I Le parks and wck and and HCA are working together now already uh and the ability to bring in HCA is also brings in that public private partnership that we talk about quite a bit and is in the in the master plan and that brings in money so the project is not entirely on the back of the taxpayers so with that that's kind of the quick 90 second recap of where We Stand now so with that I I guess I'd like to hear the select board's thoughts okay thank you so um one of my thoughts is if we were to move parks and rack and everything into Center school and have some other organizations come into Center School that would be great and if we were to move from hopkington town hall to the town hall we're sitting into this evening to Elmwood I think from a future perspective and use perspective and all that would be great but then are we just transferring the Center School problem what do we do with that to now this building what are we going to do with this that's one of my concerns is like okay we'll get we'll take care of that one over there but then this one's even bigger than that one what are we going to do with this one so just food for thought it's a challenge it's a challenge my only other thought on this whole thing is whatever we do for the next 10 years we cannot go out and spend 10 1520 million on another building in this town we simply can't put that burden on the tax years of hopk content if we can come up with a way to Scurry up all the cash and find a way to go over there and fix that thing up and make it up the code and get all the asbest out and all the other things we're going to have to deal with without spending any taxpayer money I'd be all in on that I don't see that happening though which is why I favor some kind of public private partnership where somebody else spends money and we get some access to that building uh but I've said that a few times now so we'll see what others say Mr Manan yeah no thank you and thanks for the work I think last time I mentioned that I'll repeat that uh my wish list and I think you hit a lot on the second option which is we want to keep the historic value we want to keep and reuse as much for uh our HCA our park and rec uh of the center school I'm talking about first and uh we don't want to spend money any money and we want to you know uh optimize the value possibly see some return and in doing so building that public private partnership where we can have someone uh make business out of it which is part of our capitalist um you know uh World which is a good thing and then also pay for public service um and make that you know almost zero cost to us um that would be my desired uh State and I think it's doable given the value given the you know downtown the location and our towns real estate and all that and we should put together an RFP or some um some form to collect you know how the bids look like and tune if we need to from there and for the second one um elmood I think we should also focus on doing that again the principles I would put out is how we can optimize the location by using um our needs or by meeting our needs for Town staff and town hall or if there are other areas school um we should consider all of those and the second principle is with minimal investment ideally nothing um reuse it I think the it didn't qualify to continue as a school but as a Administrative Office it may be just fine so just repurposing it with some you know new furniture I'm oversimplifying but you understand what the kind of philosophical approach I have so it's more than just Furniture though sure yeah I'm oversimplifying but that would be my kind of wish list and principle I would go by and um seems like for the first one it's kind of in the thoughts and I would appreciate our my peers thoughts and for the second one uh I think that's something we should also get in motion now that we have Elmo Al alternative already you know in the works as well those are my thoughts Mrs Rush yeah I um I appreciate the presentation you gave us in June I thought it was really helpful and we've had the time now to think about it but um so I really do like the idea of the community art center public private partnership with parks and W Downtown I think that would kind of bring life and revitalization to that to the area and I feel like if we sell it it's just going to it's in a residential district it's going to be sold for housing and that's what I hear all the time from people that we've got plenty of housing we need these other things downtown so I do think that the community art center would be an excellent opportunity um and then yeah and I don't know that it cost cost us too much to keep holding the building a little bit longer also being in the store District would be eligible for historic preservation funds from CPC as well as state grants um and there are lots of grants for Arts too especially once we establish the Cultural District there'll be more Cultural District grants so I'm hoping that this could be done with without too much expense um and then you know we'll see what happens with Al when we get we get there that's a few years off but maybe we can move down hall there okay Jo we've been a long time doing this um um on Center School and my my first inclination on what to do with Center School was to move the fin keep the financial parts of the town running here in this building and this building is getting pretty small and all of the uh departments like planning that needs to spread out and have plans uh you know assessors Maps um so that people could actually come in and and see those those things around record cards and all of that and uh I I think that it's close enough where you know we could divide we could divide between the financial departments and then the other departments could be over there I also um we also talked about affordable housing apartment parts of it and the uh partnership and and we could do something with the land behind the center school for housing and Etc and uh I still think that those are very good ideas to do with that property Mr Clark um I think I agree mostly with you know a lot of Amy's comments around Community Center getting the HCA involved funding for Grants and things that could potentially pay for this um and I'm very good with holding off on doing any of that I'd love to know kind of what our cost to kind of upkeep Center School are right now like how much that costs like what the concerns are if we extend this another couple of years specifically I don't remember if that was in the discussion a couple months ago um but I'm certainly in no rush to spend any more money on new buildings and capital projects or just sell it for you know a short-term you know gain that's probably not going to make a dent in our budget issues right so I'd hold off and see what we can do as we get closer to the Elward project and what we need to do with that site as well did you get the answer you're looking for Dan I think I did I think I did what's that I I sounds like we're kind of all on the same page no no one wants to spend any money nobody wants their taxes to go up now I I get that I don't want my taxes to go up either um the center school property is a is a good property for kind of that Community Center type of project I'm sorry keep going I I come did I feel a dagger in my back sure keep going Dan sorry all right I thought he was seeing what I was telling him to do here go ahead um we did we did meet with Ken's group uh about the ability to get funds from CPC for this project um and and Ken can speak speak for himself but there's money available for historic preservation of that building which would help offset the cost of the project um and as Mary Joe and and others mentioned um the property is large enough that we can we can do two things on that site we can do a community center and we can sell some for for housing uh my concern is I wouldn't want to rush into selling for housing right now cuz it could bog down the whole thing because we got we've got resoning that's involved in housing town meeting votes um and that that like I say that could just bog down the whole process so I'd like to try to continue working the the Community Arts Center angle of this see how we can um find money to do this at no or or minimal cost I I I think we can do it for no cost um but between the public private Partnerships CPC Amy mentioned there's grants out there grants tend to be relatively small and very competitive so we don't really count on grants too much um but I I think if we work on that angle first because this there's no rush to do this uh and then see how that falls out and then we can look at housing in the back I'm I'm afraid if we do it the opposite way it like I say it's just going to bog things down Mr Weissman as the chair of CPC and not as a resident please absolutely we don't have residents just walk in and start chat with us so that's why I'm clarifying go ahead yes and I was also the vice chair of the Center School reuse committee and as member of that committee we studied whether you could sell it and make any money off of it and other schools around here none of them made any significant amount of money for selling building such as the one in Hollman and all those required a zoning change that would have highdensity housing on the on the school area which I'm not sure would pass at a town meeting CPC is very interested in preserving the old building to the tune of we talked about it with Dan was there maybe five to $6 million of it we could maybe swing it I mean that's that's halfway that's maybe 60% there mhm you know we could certainly fund the engineering or the architectural work to get the next step going uh our committee seem to be pretty you know particularly if you get parks and wreck in and these other committees in there the the land is so valuable to town I'll throw I'll throw plan C in front of you plan C is if you're going to tear it all down CPC will make it a nice open space and it'll be a large part of our town common that's a plan C that's not selling the land off and and creating more housing whatever but you know that's a plan C so um if CPC can come up with that kind of money and the town can get letters of credit and like legit get money to bank on that we can say is going to be there then maybe it's a path to pursue but you know it can't be on a woman of prayer and oh yeah I know this guy and he says he's going to throw in 100 Grand I know this guy's going to throw in 500 Grand and we're going to squ we're going to pull together another 10 million bucks the town would need something concrete like letters of credit or something along those lines um or some kind of insurance spond that somebody's going to raise the money they need to raise Etc to make it like a legit Financial model to pursue otherwise you know we could spend years talking about this and not have the money pulled together and not have made any progress so again I'm I'm fine with whatever we can figure out but if it's going to be we do it with CPC funds and that's a nice chunk of money there it's our money it's taxpayer money and uh the state kicks in I know too but um and other entities piling money together or pooling money together we need in writing we can't have it just be chitchat so the business guy means like that's nice show me the money yeah absolutely agree with that okay to get that done though is is's a couple things we got to get done there's an October one deadline for CPC applications and I'd like to get something in front of Ken's committee before October 1st just at least for a placeholder for this year if if the board's willing to placeholder for what though Dan like if we don't have something and writing it for the other 8 million architectural funds for design is what we for design for design to save the building basically right okay we could talk about that probably the the other aspect to get the letters of credit that you're talking about um HCA is a you know a nonprofit organization they're going to go out and do um try to get donors to give money if we want to apply for Grants there's got to be some commitment on the part of the town that they're willing to go for this project so HCA would need some formal commitment from the town that yeah you can go into that property if you raise this money because they can't just go out and ask for money to go to Center school and then then the rug gets pulled out from under them Fair like likewise when we apply for Grants uh we've got to have some commitment from the town that we're actually in a use Center School for this project I don't know if it's a thing or not I mean we do bonds all day long at work and we do performance bonds and payments bonds and decommissioning bonds and bonds bonds bonds I don't know if there's a bond for a fundraising effort in other words someone backs a fundraising effort and says we'll post a bond for 5 million bucks saying you're going to raise five million bucks if you raise 4 A5 million we're going to in the other 500 you're going to pay for that Bond along the way but I don't know if that exists or not but those are the kinds of financial tools that I would want to see to to make sure that this is going to really happen right and for it to really happen we need the money and we can't go to the taxpayers for the money the chair we do have a similar situation with bayth we they're they have the lease but they're still fundraising the money to build that um facility at Fruit Street um so I feel like there is a financial way to do it I don't that we could have 10wn staff look at we must have done something for the International Marathon Center as well right well that's that's a different deal so there we just said here's the land have a nice day it's land well they have but there's not a building rotting over there right we have a building that's a liability we have a building that kids are breaking into and having their parties we have a building that you know people are throwing rocks through the windows and animals are getting in there and we have mold growing in that building literally so we can't just let this languish forever so if we can find the financial tools and put them in place and CPC is a big piece of that puzzle you might have a case and if we can't find the financial tools what what's the option then it sounds like the board wants to find those financial tools so let's try and focus on that okay uh if there's not an I mean if that doesn't happen then we're going to be 5 years down the road there's going to be more mold in there and we're going to be back kind of where we are today so we can't fail we either going to do that make it work or we go get a developer mhm yeah no through the chair I think I mean I like that idea and um CPC if we can find the money and certainly HCA fundraising all these are great ideas I I also I'm kind of be strong on you know resolving it as quickly as possible uh and having that proposal or the viability of The Proposal financially and um practically uh kind of on paper so we can really look at a viable project and go forward so that would be also you know I think it sounds very uh plausible given what you saying and it's certainly a value ad for our community we definitely want to explore that but we also want to explore a plan B should that not be immediate for whatever reason the reason I'm saying that is um we have it there there's you know asbis issues there it's growing mold and the maintenance has been quite a bit I don't know what it is today but if we sum it up it's probably already exceeded 2 million over the last whatever number of years it has been so we already spent 2 3 million maintaining something because we are not able to make a decision I'm just putting it on the you know reality check I don't think we spend that much I don't I don't think we're spending anything right now it's just moth ball but uh yeah when we had the financial discussion I I I think I would like to explore that and there were discussions that at some point every year we are spending 150,000 to 200,000 to keep it up and running or under the legal constraints whatever we need to do I would be very surprised if it's 0 I don't see that at all but if you know you you're the expert so I would definitely Bank on your expertise but I don't know if you can just not do anything with a uh structure like that with u spending anything uh so something to explore and if that is the case the point I'm making is that we need to decide not like urgently enough that we impose any risk or lose the opportunity but um not you know continue to just talk about it for another 5 years and I'm all for exploring these both options and I think on both or all these options our consensus as a hear is that we want HCA there we want our historic value to be preserved we want our uh aad uh trails and affordable housing thank you we didn't get to talk about this as much and uh and then you know uh another opportunity we' had but um we something to think about as we haven't talked about is the downtown the vibrancy of downtown and I think with all these there would be community activities enough to make it vibrant um the way we are thinking and um and looking at other opportunities would also add to the economic development aspects of it but long and short of it is that we want to explore these in a viable realistic manner so we can make a quick decision and move forward Mr Clark I'm sorry that's okay well I just wanted to make sure I heard heard you right there's an October 1st deadline to apply for CPC funding which you need I think it's a little earlier than that but it's sooner than that oh it's October 10th I'm trying I'm trying to think Shannon Shannon told me October 1st but I don't know I think it's October 10th because Commission on try to you're right yes yes I think you're right d yeah but so you guys need the board's approval to you know I don't think I need approval but just I'm just making sure what we need to back either and do stuff and surprise you yeah no I just want to make sure what we can do to help move this along tonight to Mr manan's point right we don't want to slow this down so if we got to do something soon do we need a motion we'd want to make a letter of support I would think okay of their app because you you would apply as the PBC or we would be applying as select board I guess so or permanent building committee concerned taxpayer maybe I don't know permanent building Comm committee can apply yeah as a entity in town govern so you have three weeks to apply what's our next meeting but I think that application would be for a specific task like would be you know preliminary design clean up that building keep it get it safe get it to Ground Zero basically get kind of bring it back to the life almost that's the first step in this process right well I talking about planning the whole thing out well we want to get architectural services so we can and figure out what we can do there what it's really going to cost and as part of that what we can do more feasibility study than anything else it's maybe more detailed than a feasibility study a detailed feasibility study right okay but we also want to look at you know we know this may take a long time to funds we also want to look at what we might have to do to that building in the short term to to keep the mold from uh overtaking the entire building but if you say something like design keep it broad feasibility is part of design inherently so i' keep it broad we have a meeting October 1st we could um could we review it at October 1st yeah we cannot figure this all out tonight but I think you got a message from the board but I want Mary Joe she's was I just going say I'm always surprised when I talk to people and and having worked even at the marathon how much at least the facade of that building means to people coming back to town people who went to school here people who and they all say oh oh I'm so glad and and then they say the other thing is that they're so glad that we maintain the character of the common and the common areas and that's that includes the homes and the houses and sent to school and the church and the town hall and that's what one of the things that makes hopkington a Colonial Town one that people want to live in and uh s Center School means more to people than even I thought in in talking to them and talking about it so I'm glad to see we're talking about preserving it we heard that same sentiment throughout all of our public Outreach as well and when we went out for the RFP to sell Center School it was a requirement that the 19828 building be preserved because it it means a lot to the people and it's it brings the whole common together okay um but to to your point we haven't been talking about this for all these years we've been we've been doing a lot of work we've been putting a lot of hours into this thank you um and we're at the point where if we want to really move forward we need some sort of commitment from your board that this is the right direction to go to so we're not wasting too much time trying to fund raise and get money to have the rug pulled out from us later if if we can't do it Plan B of putting together get an RFP and going out to get pricing on selling it that's an easy task we've already done that once we could pull that together you know very quickly and through the chair on the that note I fully appreciate your work is nothing to undermine you or the committee's work I know there's a lot of hard work goes on and you've been to us many times with various analysis and great proposal so I fully appreciate that and it it is also true it's been almost 78 years right so that's what I was pointing at okay so uh you have some direction I think you have some guidance letters of credit performance bonds something so the taxpayers are not on the hook okay CPC and let's see if that can play out great thanks thank you um item number 12 is the budget discussion and item number 11 is the water and sewer Advisory Board let's flip those if we could please we have our CFO here she's been here we've run over a little bit so let's give her a chance to come up and join us for a few minutes and we can get her out of here um and then we'll talk about the water and super Advisory Board shortly thereafter we don't have a lot of time for the budget discussion because we're not discussing the budget we're just looking want get share people's our board our ideas about what we're looking for for information as we think about the town budget is that a correct introduction yep okay anything you add to that yeah I think just intended to be very brief um discussion about what kinds of information you might want at your next meeting when we talk about the budget message going forward when we have visitors and I'm blind to it and not thinking about it because we used to do it in the past please remind me someone's in the room let's get them in and out of here so they don't have to wait through some of the other stuff right that's not on you that's on me but if you don't feel don't be shy or anyone else let's let's get people K in and out of the room so they don't kill them thank you for being patient you're like me I cannot sit still it's the only meeting I ever sit down and like I I'm up there walking around just like you so please ky say hello and your your thoughts hi I think the first um thing we need to decide tonight is special town meeting so I know Elaine introduced two differents a couple weeks ago we need to have a decision whether we're going to have a special town meeting in November which will allow for financial articles or if we are going to wait till December in which case we will not have any Financial articles so a lot of the department heads are waiting for that date so we know when to move how to move forward and then obviously the financial process for the budget planning is underway the majority of the departments were sent their um budget worksheets for fiscal year 26 yesterday and today so we are starting the build okay uh Financial articles in November no Financial articles in December correct correct we don't have any financials right now because we're going into a massive tax increase over the next several years so why would we have we have a number of areas where we have debt on the books that have been that has been sitting there since 2003 2016 that can be rescinded and taken off of our books and either given back to pidb principle and interest or to be used for other uses across the Departments so that's an excellent idea there because that's not increasing taxes or the burden on the taxpayer but typically when you open a warrant then other things might flow as well so how do we control that we say no I like that know and to the chair um do you think we can resend it and get refunded so the tax burden goes down we can pay off our debt with rescinded debt and how much is that um I've covered about 1.5 million then that's a huge that's a great amount .5 million million it's a good amount whatever it takes off okay let's let's one at a time please are you done I am J um so if we held off what is that six months till the next town meeting we would still be able to do that right and what and we'd obviously lose six months of interest on that whatever we pay down right that's it it's not huge yeah yeah so if we don't do it in November we can definitely do it annual Town media because that's the way to avoid other Financial articles going in we do it in December we push that off to town meeting and we keep this non-financial in December I I guess I'm sorry anybody else yeah I guess I was just gonna another point I was going to bring up was that um would that put us in a better budget planning position if we had done done the resented debt thing in nov nober and then as we're planning our next year's budget that we'll bring in May we'll already know that that's been done it just seems like that way easier for planning but it's it it really it doesn't matter doesn't matter yeah as long as we know the projects and the amount that's going to be rescinded um either one works okay and are we anticipating any expenses that might be better to to do sooner rather than later like for the P remediation or at the moment I guess we're not knowing knowing of anything okay M Le I'm just I just want to stress and I want this board to stress constantly as we go along that we're going to have everybody's got to tighten their belts and we have a garage in town so if you can keep a vehicle moving for uh 2 years or 3 years down the line you don't have to uh we have you know a time frame for for things like that and they don't have to use it they if they can keep a good vehicle going do it you know I know another town that's doing that right now they they're they have uh usually four or five vehicles every year they're only going to do one and because they're saying no and I we have never really said no I mean people have always Contin we say it and then they continue to come up with with things and I think Capital Improvements um has got to be stressed that we won't be having any big Capital Improvements till the debt comes down yeah we've started meeting we' had a meeting last night that was going to be my point is I guess that I'm a little surprised that we're all still worried about financial articles coming at us that we don't really want to spend money on right now like are we not communicating effectively that taxes are going from 12,500 to 18,500 already and that has nothing to do with anything else we add on a new pickup truck is going to add to that right a new chair is going to add to that a lawnmower a lawnmower is going to add to that the 185 for the average household in 5 years time is real today and I guess I'm just I'm worried we're not it's not getting out there if we're all worried about people throwing Financial articles into the mix yeah it's it just it's just that it's happened every every year that no matter what we say and no matter what kind of uh you know let's see Financial timeline we or financial stress so much or percentage all of that it never there's always people that don't adhere to it and come forward and want more and ask for more and they seem to believe that no matter what we say they can get it because we found a way for them to get it but uh you know we're re we've reached the pretty end of that road and uh people got to start getting real about our finances do we need the town clerk here to have a decision on a town meeting date he on zoom and I have uh asked about the two dates that we've discussed before so November 18th or December 2nd and either would be okay so he's good even with the same with John guch also with regard to the planning board and they don't have a preference at this time so hearing all this discussion here and the concern about financial articles and so forth do you have a recommendation on whether we should proceed with a special town meeting and if so which date I mean either date would be fine um it would be nice to get the debt off the books but it can come off at either meeting um there is a risk that someone believes that a project is important enough that should be considered Ed and we'll submit a financial article so your recommendation for a date would be which well either is fine with me I know but I want you to pick a date you know I it'd be nice to do it in November to get it done okay and what date we looking move toward the winter I mean the idea of getting a million and a half dollars off the books I love that idea I love that idea I just don't want a million and a half going back on the books four articles later right as we move into Colder Weather there's a more chance of it's sow date yeah so the way this works as I understand it anybody can submit an article to town meeting if they do the proper things and get through the various committees and stuff that means department heads right because that's in the charter that means residents that means boards and committees other boards and committees so it can be somewhat of a free-for-all but if the message is strong enough that the answer is no at least from this board hopefully that will limit that and there's a hire Bar for a special time meeting for the citizens petitions I can't remember 100 is 200 200 okay so it's a little higher okay that probably wouldn't be an issue yeah I was thinking is there um someone's conard go ahead please Conor Dean town clerk I just wanted to clarify it's 100 for a citizen petition for town meeting so it is a high bar but I mean it's been achieved before it can happen okay all right um so let's we're still on question one with our CFO which is when can we do a town meeting are we ready to take a vote on that this evening can we even take a vote on that this evening without having had that specifically spelled out in our agenda they would open it next time the T manager report I was going to talk about the dates again okay so it is so we can advance that to now yeah that's fine um go ahead the chair one one thing I wanted to also remind I know we are going to start the advisory budget advisory soon um I think this is a good time if you uh I know you've been working on it and we talked about it El um included and the other stakeholders if you can um refresh us with the grounded principles for financial decisions and the gates um so we can have it kind of as a Bible for us given the time we are in and if we need to refresh anything we should do that I think that's one way we can keep reminding ourselves and the town the reason I say that um there would be I mean we all are I think on the same page that we don't want any further you know uh burden on the taxes but um we also want to make sure that uh the town residents understands feels their way and how structured form we can approach it um is better and you know say if there is uh certain super dire need urgent need we do want to hear that that's why I'm in favor of taking the extra money back reduce the debt if there is something new Let It Come and Let everyone hear it and and then you know take a look at it of course our uh approach is not to burden but uh I I don't think we cannot not here any such requests that's my two so so in last week's um presentation I included the financial policies as well as how to um submit Capital requests and the requirements there too so if you don't have that I can recirculate it but those were shared last week let's try it from this angle does anybody want to make a motion to have a special town meeting in November uh whatever that date is November 18th 2024 I would make a motion to um plan to have the special town meeting on November 18th so you're calling the special town meeting oh will we do it tonight or is that what your motion is to call special to and we can do that even though that's not a was on the town manager yeah because was in the time man I was asking okay so I would make a motion that we would call a special time meeting for November 18th but we won't open the warrant until later correct correct okay okay so we have a motion on the table to call town meeting we have a second on November 18th 2024 any further discussion all those in favor please say I I any opposed okay we're going to have a special town meeting on November 18th 2024 we'll get to the warrant and calling and all the all the or the other stuff as we go uh this is an administrative town meeting for us anyway is that a fair statement for the select board and town government in general um it's a town meeting for the planning board and the um communities act the whatever that's called escaping me at the moment what is it the MBTA communities bylaw I think that would be obviously on that special town meeting that would be the feature article if you will and taking aund or million and a half dollars in debt off the books would be great we don't want to spend any more money please don't bring us articles where you're trying to raise our debt raise our on our taxpayers okay we're set until next May for finances all right um second question though was what would you I think you're looking for guidance or information or requests for what kind of information the Board needs to make their budget message I think we just did it we'll keep doing it what else do you need do you do you want to I mean I I have some ideas of things I'd like gu yeah I just want to see Kyle do you have anything you want to share or you're just looking for ideas ideas good Elaine do you want to start with that though I think we just want to hear from the board okay great Mrs ridor so I would love to have like some kind of um simple PowerPoint kind of like the superintendent does kind of outlining the town's needs and how they've changed over the last 5 to 10 years with growth and I know growth strains some departments more than others and so I think that's helpful for the public to understand why some departments might need more because they're so effective by the number of residents and maybe other departments it doesn't make as much of a difference so I think that would be helpful and then that um spreadsheet it was a Google Google sheet that Tim L oia did for us two years ago where it had all the capital planning debt items in one column and you could it was really clever you could toggle which fiscal year you wanted to put it in if you said okay we can't afford that this year let's put it off three years and how that would affect the tax um the average tax bill so I thought if we could do that again I thought that was a very helpful tool for us to visualize um as well as the public that's it Mr Clark um I mean I would expect typical benchmarks you know year-over-year um I would love if we could include things like you know I think we asked in the previous um session um Town comparisons for like neighboring communities you know when it comes to percentage of Department spends uh just to have kind of an idea of where those things fall that would be helpful good idea R well like I just like I said people have got to get used to the fact that we're going to say no and we're going to tell them now we're going to say no and uh you know somehow we've always done it and it just can't continue to happen okay Mr Manan yeah no I think we discussed it a lot uh and thank you for putting that together I do have seen the policy and others that you mentioned but I was more about a structure where we can see the results with a risk score and a specific kind of uh Direction on some or uh uh I haven't seen it actually in the policy directly is that for example our um Reserve status our opep status our various other capital projects what are the going forward guidance uh do we change anything because our evaluation of the risk that is not very clear in in the current form we we have a overall generic approach so that's one thing I would also approach and I think U you know overall as uh we all are talking about uh we want to see what are the impacts going forward for various capital projects and keep a close eye on that for the budget preparation and outline we want to see you know the more I would say rationalized and thoughtful allocation so we don't end up with more in um um cash um what is it our cash Reserve essentially but also uh approach and allocate on the immediate needs like we have heard with the nurses uh not being able to vaccinate uh so and I know everyone's doing their hard work and putting the due diligence on all fronts but these are some areas I see we can learn and probably tune for doing things better and we already talked about hiring on the capital project side I think our message is loud and clear we don't want to increase the tax burden but that said we need to um be able to see and hear in my view uh what are the you know crying things that are out there for example if there is a bridge that cannot be used and I'm not saying there is uh or there is something that would impact the citizens lives immediately we want to hear that and then given the financial criteria we want to evaluate it we won't of course go for you know something that is not diely needed but I don't also want to completely ignore that not that we are going to all agree to approve it if it has huge tax impact or significant but we want to hear it and see it that's one uh but overall I think that's that's the overall um needs we want to see that continue to monitor laser beam focus on allocation and pre-planning and a cross check on those uh as we prepare for the next budget and then U have that uh impact kind of well communicated as we are doing with all the information that we have so I appreciate the work uh just two thoughts one you know the the board is in the um unenviable position of having to play the heavy from time to time and certainly I think for the next couple of years when it comes to town finances we're going to have to be the heavy um and that's not meant to be uh disrespectful or disparage the great work that uh Town employees do in Hopkinson I've always been very impressed with the management team and the employees uh up and down across the organization I think they all do a fabulous job on behalf of the citizens but we just have to be the heavy this go around so as far as the budget message goes I mean I'm ready to give it right now but we'll see save it for October 1 I think you know what it's going to be from my seat anyway um but again it's not meant to be disrespectful or or not recognizing crazy hard work uh that I see so many people doing in hopkington every day on behalf of the community um and it's just going to be tough for all of us for a couple years but it's nothing nothing directed at them at all uh that uh said um I think you have what you need for this evening is that fair so I think we can wrap this one up Miss Lazarus yeah I just wanted to note that you had mentioned the the model that um Tim had prepared that would not be something we could have now maybe when we get close to tell meeting there's some evaluation tool for people but that was a very compated model no not Fact one it's not something we can do for several months yeah okay all right so with that we'll table that discussion for now thank you very much um but we will start to get the ball rolling with the town clerk specific to a September or October November 18th special town meeting uh let's go now back to item number 11 the water and sewer Advisory Board and in the interest of time we have kind of been through this process a few times at the bo level now uh Mrs Lazarus you reached out to the DPW I believe since our last meeting and had some Communications can you share that with us now please yes I reached out to Eric cardi Water and Sewer manager and Carrie Reed DPW director who should be on Zoom Carrie is but uh one of the things that Eric did Express was that you know he had concerns with um a committee that is involved in the operations of the department uh given prior experience where there were difficulties and problems created um and so um he had concerns that the committee might be involved in um advising the DPW and with dictating its its work those were his concerns but our charge does not say that in fact fact our charge says the opposite of that of that correct so I I hear what Eric's saying he doesn't want to be micromanaged by five more people but our charge as we've got in front of us this evening says in fact the opposite is going to be the deal and they the DPW still goes to you and you still come to us and you don't they don't go to that committee right but that committee can guide and provide input through us back to them again and study things like we can't study it is that fair that's fair okay and in in response to to uh K's comments to me I did uh cross out um that the board is advisory to the director of Public Works in the in the document itself okay because the can speak board's advisory to us I think we're good Carrie said that we don't need to rehash it because I'm again we're trying to move along here so uh Mr Manan uh no I think um I'm supportive of that as I have been and uh put it out for some time I think it would be helpful uh just to clarify so um the did you get to talk to them if they want to be any part of this for input and output cuz our current charge and I think that makes sense that's what we have been advocating but I just wanted to make sure that they're comfortable that it would be advis to us and then we'll talk to you know DPW on that regard but do are they interested in being in part of this committee as a Lio or however it makes sense did you check get to check that they're not they're not okay that's good then there's no other concern that hearing right and although there there is an interest in having the committee do a community outreach um and those kinds of things that would be very beneficial to public works so okay was the front here anything well I I was around for the last one it was kind of disappointing and um how many we're going to have five members correct okay well we've been doing pretty well on our own so I I I I'm not sure except for the P issue and is this is this board going to be able to tackle that that's my main concern okay Mr Clark um no I mean I I certainly support the idea of making sure that they're not influencing like the DPW in their work so the fact that that is stricken out of there um is important um if car's on did we want to hear from Carrie can I handle that please when we get to it thank you sounds good i' I've got no additional comments then okay this is RB yes I'm gonna do it I'm timing it out here this is R Bush all right so I'm struck a little bit by something you said earlier U Mr chair about like not having two boards doing the same thing and that's why we didn't have the trails that way and I really just what are we going to do if this Advisory Board comes to us with one recommendation and it's completely contradictory to our town professionals recommendations like I just think we're setting ourselves up for trouble here so and something that I thought was missing from the charge um it's really important the clean water is a human right and it's our Town's responsibility to provide the clean water to the water customers and providing guidance on the so just want to make sure that and acknowledging that the town has to follow state and federal laws regarding the contaminants and the commission should not in any way attempt to delay the process of bringing clean water to the residents um so I'm I'm leaning I'm probably going to vote no but those were my concerns so uh from my vantage point I think it um you know one of the big things I there's two big things I look at here there's three things actually Water and Sewer rates okay we did them earlier this year we spent 15 minutes boom off we go we raised rates we don't know what we're talking about let's be honest okay two $40 million give or take for MW do we have time on this board to debate $40 million of expending on or expenses uh for a system that has to that Southboro is pushing us to do right now and make a decision on right now do we have the time to do that do we have the expertise to do that I would suggest not and then the third thing is PFS okay PFS is here to stay we've got filters in place we're doing some other things but it's not going away it's on our clothes it's on that nice jacket it's on my jeans it's everywhere right PFS is something else we have to consider and I think we need dedicated people to study these things and understand them we don't do that at this level we just rubber stamp stuff we have no idea what we're talking about with all do I mean I'm sure some of us do but I sure as hell don't right so I think we just got to be open to the idea of giving this a go um a lot of towns have this this is not unique to in Massachusetts municipal government at all in a lot of towns this is an elected position right which I think would create a little bit more of a another Dynamic which I'm not advocating for at all um but I think there's good reasons to do this but let's hear from Carrie Carrie so you've heard where the board's coming from um I'm just trying to keep this meeting moving and get us out of here this evening do you have anything you want to share we know that you're um concerned about who you would report to we're telling you that's not going to change is there anything else that's on your mind um I have similar concerns I've already been voiced I think this Advisory Board will complicate our work a little bit um and I think will cause delays which we're trying to avoid I appreciate the changes that were made um to the original one that was discussed last week and again you know we would really appreciate the support for the public Outreach I think that's the most important thing what we do and and these issues with water they're technical they're complicated they're very important um people don't understand them as you believe Le the to it's um tough in that way so any help that we can get with spreading that message or taking these Concepts and making them into something people AR understand stand but um the rest of the charge I I I think I appreciate what some other folks talked about um you know we have a great Public Works we have great professionals and I think we are more than capable of of handling these issues okay all right so everyone's been heard we've been through this several times I think it's time for a vote back to what I said earlier let's put the motion on the table and take a vote see how it lands chair if I a couple of thoughts I think you articulated it well so that there's no misunderstanding the goal is not to you know dictate DPW Through The Advisory Board the goal is to help us to understand things better and also reduce the burden of research of some of the you know analysis that we might look for and of understanding some of the issues better when we are doing a you know Capital project analysis and kind of comparables Pros versus con for pest remediation shortterm versus long term I I would like to see and we talked about it more elaborate research and Analysis and understanding better understanding which I don't uh think DPW would want to or have the bandwidth to spend so much time on and we definitely in the board don't have the expertise to do that so this is for uh for to kind of advise us and if at any point that you feel or um you repat feels there is complications it can always come to us and we can help resolve that because they're not going to directly dictate anything they'll talk to us so if we hear something that's contradictory or different uh we'll definitely have DPW and consult together and help resolve it and it's that's the essence and how we want to act on this um um with this Advisory Board and I think with you know having it implemented and um in the works for a couple of years we'll tune it if we need to but um then we'll we'll learn and see the value of it that's my two sense so let's go on vote Yes so the chair entertain a motion to um uh where am I I lost my trans oh here it is CH entertain a motion to establish a new water and sewer Advisory Board and approve the charge as submitted this evening in the agenda packet so move second we have a motion on the table in a second Dare I ask any further discussion okay hearing none all those in favor please say I I any opposed opposed okay so we have a 4 to one vote is that accurate uh to support the creation of the water and sewer Advisory Board don't we have a five who voted against it I'm sorry who voted against it Amy was a no okay um and that's fine that's fine um so let's uh we'll go ahead and get that rolling and start working on committee members and things of that nature right you good now yep okay let's go now to item number 13 the town manager report briefly please guess I won't uh elaborate on Main Street Corridor project everything in the memo is is the same it's ripping along there's no uh no Town Department position vacancies and I was going to ask you about the special town meeting dates so um that's all set um I did want to highlight the water notice that went out today with the mandatory lawn watering um so that people know that um their automatic sprinklers are supposed to be turned off and this preserves water for essential daily needs and Fire Protection um the other thing I just wanted to highlight is the tomorrow night at 5:00 is the needs assessment findings um for senior services at the senior center and that's it I assume that'll be televised if yes yeah okay great I hope so all set yes thank you very much um anybody have any liaison reports they need to share uh I have a few I think I'll try to make it quick so uh if anyone else has something please go ahead cuz I have to pull up a document Mar Joe I don't have a liaison report but I just wanted to congratulate people on the family fund day and the the fireworks the other night they were spectacular and uh I think everybody had a great time excellent excellent thank you Mr said no Mrs R Bush I think it can wait till next time I'm good next time okay yeah so on the esbc I um wanted to give a quick brief update uh so the project is currently in permitting process with the planning board and the Conservation Commission and public hearings for those meetings will continue on 923 and 9:24 so please uh feel free to join the project will transition into discussing traffic changes including proposed traffic light and other important topics um so that would be an interesting discussion and awareness also the project is wrapping up the estimating uh cycle for the 60% CDs and we'll be presenting the construction estimate on 927 so that's another important Milestone and the mea meepa process with the state is continuing with the drafting of the single environmental impact report that is to be submitted in October 24 so the uh long and short of it is the project is in full force moving forward as planned and uh uh great progress thanks to the team and to the board and then on the uh Library um side I got some nice updates uh as well one is um that uh we have been nominated and let me pull that up um so Congressman mcgn has nominated the Hopkinton Public Library for the the national medal for Museum and Library services so last year uh was the first time that a library from Massachusetts won this award and uh we got tremendous support from the congressman thanks to him and also hpl sent support letters Town manager elain sepac uh linso everyone and I also asked if from the board we can um add to that support in any ways to make the case stronger that would certainly be an excellent um excellent work an excellent recognition uh and then I think uh that's the high level update Adult Services librarian have received $6,000 Grant which is great always open for new grants and get things moving uh there's been um American sign language class that the hospital staff uh sorry Library staff took which is going to be also very helpful for um helping uh and uh people with hearing difficulty and the Massachusetts library system also announced language line solution for libraries that is going to help with 240 plus languages um which is going to be very helpful for all the library um subscribers so great update and uh great uh progress on the library front and especially rooting for congressman's nomination that's all I have aome um item 15 is uh future board agenda items I would just put one up there real quick is the tax credit work hours Al we need to maybe get uh get that on the agenda so we can talk about that further and try and find a solution or at least try and figure out how to find a solution to that question um and then I think the others that are on the list that we continue to carry so we see them uh we are chipping away and I don't have anything else to add anybody else do we need to call out the new trails committee charge as like a separate one I know we got be old up Charles but could just replace it with so this this list is to kind of like what do we want to get to at some point there's things we don't have to have it on this list to put on the agenda next time you know what I'm saying that would be something we would put on the agenda to get it done as soon as possible okay okay anything else I thank you other future item stuff I think some items can become off yeah we're about ready to take some stuff off which is good but I don't have anything to add okay anything to add this all right with that uh unfortunately hour late but not that bad I guess uh the chair will entertain a motion to aurn so move second there's a motion on the table second all those in favor please say I I any oppos thank you have a good night thank you all you anything to sign