okay we still have another minute or so so seen in a long nine months late but I show you another one too I think one two three four five six through the chair you're live on hcam TV thank you um and I'd like to welcome everyone to tonight's upper Charles Trail committee meeting and I'd like to advise everyone that we are being reported [Music] um so it's been nine months since we have been together so this and we have been given very specific guidelines for tonight's meeting through the select board and it was went out to the agenda so I don't an you know I'm I'm thinking that we should flow right along I don't anticipate any any unusual problems all right so we can also keep an eye if you see anyone that wants to be admitted you can as well so um we're going to everyone there's a copy of the agenda if you don't have it here and we're just going to follow that agenda for tonight uh um are there first of all any questions or comments from the public that we can help anybody with right now you can wave your hand or raise the hand function um okay seeing none or just speak up because I'm not sure I might be able not might see you so um having said that um we will move on to our first agenda item which is um and this comes from the select board and their meeting the uh two weeks ago and basically they want the two things they want us to review the charge the current charge and they want to um later on in the in the agenda have a speak to what are some of the improvements so that's kind of TW two places it's in the in number number three and number four so first of all I thought it would be simple if we could just look at the upper Charles Trail charge right now and see what people think do you do we all agree with the current charge uh what's the pro or the con if you want to H um mention that that's fine or you could just say I agree or if you don't agree with the current charge maybe you can just ex elaborate on that or not not depending on how you feel so the upper Charles Trail just um for those of you at home who may be listening we're charged with recommending for the select board's consideration a developmental plan Charles tril and hopkington from the Milford Town Line to the Ashley and Town Line and then developing the upper Charles Trail so the committee's responsibility shall include but not be limited to planning design permitting property rights acquisition um and construction of the trail Associated infrastructure subject to the approval of the select board um of the property rights acquisition and the trail route location so the committee May request and advocate for CPC funds over and we've done that over the years many many times so we shall continue to gather input from as many Hoppington residents as possible throughout process and in the summary the charge Rees that the upper Charles Trail to develop a plan multiuse active and passive recreational path that will incorporate the sun Trail and the plan shall outline the community's vision for the path and produce recommendations for the select board's consideration that align with the aspirations of the community so I'll start off the conversation and then we can go around the table one at a time and we'll just do that until we're done and we'll move on to the next thing so this is the charge that we've been following in and we have always followed it and it's worked well with for us I mean it's pretty straightforward you started Hoppington Milford and you go to the other end of the the town along the east side but we have to use the center Trail plan design construct blah blah blah we've tried to do that to the best of our ability so I I agree uh Jim do you have an a thought on that and then next time I'll start with Eric and then we'll just take turn going around there um well just to say that um you know item three captures it certainly and I think um item four as I recall captures what what we decided to do um that's all I reserve the rest again so to be clear did you do you agree or do you disagree I agree oh okay and Eric I find the charge to this committee to be a reaction rather than a thought process for example the select board could not have done a worse job in outlining our committee by insisting that we use the center Trail as part of the upper Charles it is literally the reason we're sitting here today going back and forth across Hayden Road to get the Ashland because of that restriction it has caused us to go through downtown and irritate more people than we can count they were reacting to the fact that Milford completed their uh Rail and we didn't have one when they formed this committee they they didn't give it a budget they gave it no infrastructure they gave it no direction on how to form and created something that we spent the first couple years just trying to get to the point where we could afford to have a survey done it's one of the worst select board actions I have seen and I've seen plenty of them because I was a select person for three terms or two terms and chairman of the committee three times so when I see this kind of work done by a select committee or whoever did this really disappointing to me and then to go through a process where there are a member of the committee one of their members and I have attended over a thousand meetings I can't count 10 meetings their member of this committee has attended it showed a lack of complete disrespect To Us by having only two members of their committee ever attended and uh well the whole thing is just irritating to me we're sitting here now trying to justify something that was doomed from the beginning until we fixed it well said I appreciate that history because I didn't know that excellent not to go back and forth um Bob do you have an opinion yeah or obervation yes um the charge which is the bold print Under agenda item number three is to me simple straightforward and also in my opinion contrary to Eric's um a noble one I think we should incorporate the center Trail because it's kind of a Hopkinson centerpiece um and uh that having been plugged in as a requirement um probably contributed to the fact that we have a now paved completed spine Trail uh from from Center trail to the common on Main Street which is uh I think one of our um finest accomplishments today so I like the charge and I like the way it's um worded myself okay thank you and um Scott sure thank you um it's interesting um Eric's comments um in particular the one thing I picked out was a center Trail requirement because it to me it doesn't contradict the last you know us offering options or recommendations to the select board but it restricts in some respects so even if we did I'm sorry I shouldn't dress people right but even if we did end up incorporating the center Trail it's because we thought it was the best one of the best options for the route that we're selecting so I would actually I picked that out at the beginning I I would um you know whatever Vote or suggest that we remove that even though we now we now have you know other segments and we could still it's not preventing us from actually incorporating it so I think it's it adds a dimension of restriction in our thinking and our approach that's sort of comment number one um from a removal perspective the other thing that I would do is I would put and I think it goes back sorry to keep agreeing with you Erica it's just really uncharacteristic for both of us here maybe we're working too much together it's being recorded you can use it as evidence but in all seriousness so I think there should be some sort of more deliberate connection to the select board in our charge and and and I think interestingly enough it might not necessarily be because of us it just it will force the connection regardless of who's who should be parac about making that connection it should be whether it's uh I'm not exactly being specific because I don't know if I have a specific recommendation for it but something to the effect of that we should have monthly check-ins or or something to that point where we're on the agenda for five minutes during the liaison connection where we can at least give a report of progress or problems to the score quarterly some curiosity and some sort of agenda item that's more predictable and and there so it provides a milestone for us but it also provides visibility and kind of forced or not whatever words you want to use um um acknowledgement and connection to the selectboard and then the last connection I think we should make is to the tcmc um maybe I'm a little out of school because I'm not in our charge but maybe I am I don't think we should be part of the tcmc personally but I think there should be a connection with the tcmc so sort of deliberate on our charge whether it's a reporting line whether it's a membership we could talk about that separately yeah I think deliberate connection excuse me stop you there because I think further down that we're supposed to address specific items that we can improve separate from the charge but but I think the charge could contain the select board connection and the TCM connection as a charge um those would be my feedback but everything else I I'm along with it stated here okay um Ken yeah so uh mostly I think the charge is fine uh I I guess had it not included the center Trail originally that might have been fine with me uh but I think it's so long you know having built the trail through downtown I think would be really not fair minded of us to take that out of it now because it would almost act like we're not TR to take responsibilities for for for what has happened already and it did happen while we were working on it I've got a little grammatical change uh you when you read it J you fixed the grammar but uh uh the the word uh approval is there twice in one of those lines that ought to say subject to the approval of the select board regarding property rights acquisition and I recommend changing that phrase closer to the way you actually read it but grammatical just it's just a grammatical thing um yeah so um I'm not super happy about the way it worked out downtown I I wanted there to be a path downtown but I I gotta say it's well let's just stick to the subject of the charge so but the charge itself and I I don't see a need to uh okay to to add or subtract from it really other I know we're just looking at the charge itself right Tim would you Tim R Bush just joined our meeting uh Tim would you like to uh we're discussing um the first part of our directive from the select board and that's to uh look to the charge and state whether the committee agrees with it or not and so I asked the committee members to basically State why they might agree or not and why and why not and if you don't have an opinion that's fine too I don't have an opinion right okay so I'll allow everyone to go around the table one more time to um speak and I just want to speak to the center Trail because at one point during our last 14 years there there were several years in there where people felt um as Eric did and some I think Scott as well that the center Trail should never have been included well we looked at that and we looked for Alternatives and we could not find a path a clear path along the east side of hopkington it's impossible it's all built up and um so that wouldn't have worked anyway and I kind of agree with pen the center Trail is a a a really nice piece of um hopping tenth we can at all work it in I think at at the end of the day it might be you know good thing if it ever gets done uh having said that we I'll go around the table again would anyone like to add to what they or after the hearing other people's thoughts anyone want to add or I'll just say um I agree with something well Scott said that he doesn't think that the upper child Trail should be the responsibility of tcmc or the two committees should be combined and I agree with that okay they have two different missions and at some point tcmc will take over whatever is the Upp house Trail just like they have the Senate tra responsibility right that be the same thank you glad to pointed that out yeah um I think there should be a connection too I would Invision one or two members from each committee forming some kind of subcomittee for an improvement uh or ways to work work better together and not uh have two agendas that are radically opposed to each other okay um Bob any additional thoughts uh just that Scott mentioned a connection to the select board somewhat vaguely seems to me the connection to the select board is spelled out as as fully as it needs to be in this church that's just quickling with his with his suggestion okay it is in the original but this is a very condensed version of the this is what's posted now that's why that's what they gave us so that's what we're a very condensed version of the original committee which does have the relationship of the uh Board of selction yeah react yeah okay Tim just you g to pass or well I I was just gonna ask you guys since you've been experienced has it been the board's job to obtain the property rights and permitting no I have some history that I'm going to pass out in a little bit it show but what we always what we did is it's because it's written out in the charge is that we searched out the Acquisitions and different Avenues properties to be I wouldn't guess that a board like our no no so we would do all the research and then pass it along yeah yeah it's a responsibility manag right so that's what we did in fact you'll be interested in open open space does yeah okay we would um Advance some acquisition to man CPC won't buy anything Town managing okay we're not on CPC we even Tri to the dollar amount some kind of agreement I think I'm the town manager in the property are my general thoughts are that the general idea that it's a trail from the trail to Ashland and we've kind of lost some of the baggage that used to exist about it being specifically a rail bed wherever possible I think it's probably a good change just because of what we run into what didn't necessarily know when we started which was oh that doesn't work and then we have to do the best we can so anyway so in general I think that I don't have a huge problem with WS I don't have any major so you overall you accept it any additional SC just a clarification I didn't suggest I wasn't suggesting that the cail shouldn't be incorporated at all in fact um I agree and and aware that that look was evalu as an option I'm suggesting that any type of prescription or restrictions that are placed it you know it's guessing again this that water may be under the bridge already on the CER Trail so regardless but that was Point number one and then being less vague on the select board um I think we should add something about um periodic um readouts or reports to the select board at the select board meeting in the charge we should be specific about the select board liaison should do that regardless but there should be we should be on an agenda kind of suggested quarterly which I could support whatever that period that we think is we could probably refine that but I think there has to be an agenda item for the UCC four times a year instead of coming back every year or every year and a half like we last time okay thanks so Point wait minut that no back and forth I guess I'm fine with adding a line about quarterly reporting to the select board I'm that's fine with me okay I think that would be a good thing yeah more communication is never a bad thing oh Jim now I forgot what I think what I was going to say is the kind to respond to yes oh oh select board every agenda every meeting has leaon report they need to be able to get they need to get a liaison report every month or every quarter or whatever it is from Le which is correct and it's not the first time this has been discussed all along there's been a lack of interest from the select board and what we have been told many times over is that the select board member whoever might be at the time is because we include them in all the agendas and all the minutes they get copies of everything and they say that they are well informed because they read everything and they just take it at face value that everything is going well and if they have a question they'll come to a meeting or they'll pick up a phone and call so in their defense um they have been this has been addressed um with them well I've Tred with them and that's been their response from their initial Inception of this committee they made one of their members a member of this commit their members have not attended our meetings true so their whole purpose their connection to our committee was allegedly through a member participating and carrying back to them what we're up to and that didn't happen all right we'll put it we'll put it through we'll put it I mean it's noted and that's you know we can't do anything I guess I guess this more but I think you know we should be able to anybody should be able to ask a select board member what's happening with the UCC and I think if anybody did that through that period of time I don't think anybody maybe not Lon but certainly not the other members would know because that communication wasn't okay very good so the second thing on our agendum is to uh list suggestions for improvement as requested by the select board to engage in conversation so um suggestion for improvements I think we spoke to many of them during this last conversation but I'm going to go around the table and ask the folks you folks if you have any specific improvements um to uh the charge and I think the one I heard the most most was uh quarterly meetings uh or quarterly reports or updates to select board um do you have commitment from the select board leison attend keep our charge pass along the pass along the updates board okay um yeah that we should be there should be separate committees yeah because they have separate charges all so keep uh the two Trail committees separate CMC or whatever they want to call themselves responsible for existing Trails oper Charles Trail committee is responsible for what might be oper child Trail and but maybe did I also hear in this uh before Lea on each committee attending the other right yeah I mean if there's anything to report to concom I do it really is but yeah um well that's for the two Trails but um last your point yeah well on from each committee the two Trails about the trail being um serious from so before I I you touched on something did you want to say something about the Liaisons from concom and parks and wck oh do you see value in that yeah I think we should continue having Liaisons from related committees which would include conom Parks from R I think first of all we need to they should all be voting members Define what a liaison is a member this committee is not a liaison that person is a member of this committee for both well it's both but it it's a level above liaison yeah are people that attend and have communication but not membership and voting so in I I started from as a parks and wreck member of this committee you're theom member and historically we've all guys have always been voting members yes exactly from the GetGo always U at times you know in my case I've become a I ask you to speak to the value of because there has been conversation about having these liaison members not being able to vote I I have an opinion about that but can I ask you guys as full members we should be able to I think they should we should they should stay full members and be voting members the on part comes in as I my example if there's something that we talk about like um uh from hay rad to the school I forgot what those streets called I talked to conom in meetings about you know what we talked about same thing with parks and wck um or whatever correct and if I could just interrupt um because this has been said and I think it's worth repeating that if we were have if we did not have the weon we would then have to uh somebody said well you can just wait and periodically check in with them once every four months I said we wouldn't get anything done because we rely on this information whenever we have a meeting we rely on Parks and W and con concom there's a reason why they put those in there and I fully appreciated the value and the information you folks have brought um Bob did you have anything you want to add to the improvements or um suggestions for improvements that's what they're asking for um of the charge yes um I'm just going to tag on this leaz on issue I think that they serve an important function they have throughout our history uh so I would like our convention with Le a to remain exactly as it is I think we should have the same other Town committees represented and that those leaz if you will are also full members of our committee voting members and that's how we gain more Enlightenment into what's going on throughout the town okay thank you uh Tim probably not so useful but so tagging onto the whole Lea on verse member Le on verse it does giving out more because I think we you're talking about maybe adding in a Trails maintenance committee as a voting the aison river so now you're getting slight larger board with more voting numbers it does sort of reduce the amount of say that people who aren't on other committees would have right so you're giving out more votes to people who are on that would have to be on another committee to be in that spot so less say for the people who just talk about that's an interesting point I don't know that that's helpful because I think that your other point that you need those people you need the information you don't give vote you're you don't have to see the ones who you do give a vote sometimes if you don't give them a vote you won't see them at all would be my other my Coral are to that so well that brings up something if I could I agree with you I think that if a TCU member is a liaison they should be a voting member here and I also agree that if we get rid of the word alternate but keep a member and just have everybody voting right it and that member may be transformed into well I don't think we should expand it well currently there's 11 but two don't vote alternates there alternates so we have a nine member committee right so an 11 member committee you'd have to have six people show up every T yeah we just barely made it tonight on this important meting so I think the idea and and of having the aison and I know there was a lot of um not so good feelings because the liaison would come and participate but not have a vote I think the original idea of having a liaison was to because this is such a complicated structure and project that they would attend and they would get to know what the project was over time and then when there was an opening they could become a full member so that there were always two in the in the wings waiting so do we recommend now to this select board that we remove all the two alternate members and keep it at none um being liaison for tcmc pars and rec um Conservation Commission because I'm hearing that we think those are valuable and then having at large members or the select board members exactly the way it ister can't vote and can participate in the meeting nine members with u the representatives from conom and parks and wck and whoever else there is well we have at large members now so can we focus sort of our I think they're highly related I think we should to focus on the number of members and voting and alternates and then and the liaison or vice versa but I feel like we're blending the two together I know there's a cause and effect I get that but we you know but I think that we should probably agree on the number of members and whether the alternates which was Shan suggested as a first thing and then we could discuss you know which groups have le on which how do you talk about numbers if you don't know what you want for responsibilities I would say the I thought we going around have a bunch of feedback and comments but um I'm just trying to see if we should just talk about at least the number of members in the alternates first do you guys what are you guys the chair I no no no you wereing I was also be your turn I was bouncing off of Kim right yeah I brought up can we start with an agreement that I think we have four Le on right now Conservation Commission CPC no select board no you already mentioned but there's only three select board what was select board three so there's three all right well that's all I wanted to do is make sure we know what we are right now virtually every Committee in town has a structure this alter I don't so three member lastly aons and then five at large don't no it depends on the need of the committee and I think that that was the thought process when they had the alternates I think works W you get much more than this you get the elected committees do not have alternates the appointing committees have this uh structure so to Scott's point let's go right to the alternate members do we eliminate them or do we keep them because if we eliminate them that would keep it at nine members if we keep them that would keep it 11 so maybe that's the way to look at it what are your thoughts about keeping alternate members keep them but don't let them vote they're alternates okay well vote as an alternate no vo so there's no Quorum there but might as well go around they get to contri all right so let's let's go around okay so let's go around um keep alternates or or not alternates as non voting okay you don't yeah I don't care Eric has alternate is non voting okay Bob uh keep alternates and let them vote all the time I mean yeah that would be 11 Point alternate I thought was good then you would just remove the word alterate 11 all right so Tim you're an alternate how do you feel about all of this um yeah I feel both ways like supp I feel useless that's because you're still learn oh don't feel usess it's a complicated and then also it kind of allows be okay with teaching so not having to worry about contributing um it it is nice having the two extra voices that can talk but can't vote so it doesn't create the chaos but it does give you a couple extra voices see a little bit larger Community member involvement I I would try to if I I guess I would I I the thing I would look for is at least allowing voting when there's not a quorum or you know sure that makes it more useful that's there than okay that's right okay I was I was misunder understanding okay so to help make a for they're there and they're there for emergencies and that helps because not everyone can always be there correct so that would be keeping the struct yeah I I think I'm okay with alternates not voting now that I've experienced it and that's the purpose is it's a reason to get to know the committee and be in a safe place so you can have these conversations yeah I'm very much in favor of keeping the alternates um for uh the extra voices as Tim mentions I think it helps to alleviate some of the potential concerns that could arise from keeping liaison as voting which I'm in support of keeping L as voting not the select board member as a voter I don't think the select board should be a voting member because I feel like it's a little bit um I don't the word is redundant but if we're going to be presenting options to them they will have an opportunity to vote ultimately um so I would I would because I wouldn't want to remove I wouldn't want to have that extra vote so I would have the Liaisons for parts and Rex and concom as voting members have the two alternates fill in if we don't have quum and have the two alternates be a voice for feedback from the public hopefully up but non voting so pretty much the way it is except not take away the select board member correct as a voter voting member and Ken um part of me wants the alternance to be able to vote if they're needed for the Quorum but not all otherwise but well that's the way it is now that they can vote if there is not a quorum okay so I'm fine with that then but I didn't realize that that was uh cut it's just not happened a lot yeah yeah fine fair enough so on the liaison issue I'm a little unclear as to whether the liaison is a liaison uh appointed by the other committee or um needs to be an actual member of that committee I don't I don't know whether it depends on how the select board design it I know that the way they I I think the way the instructions they give these committees and Boards is you have one person that you can do as an alternate that does not have to be a member of the they can reach out alternate sorry too many yes and that's the way it is now we got to just be clear on that so that it doesn't have to be a member of the other committee but it has to be a a person who's going to take it upon themselves to interface between the two committees and must typ typically the Committees are set up so that the parks and recti gets the vote he has to be a member of parks and wreck to be assigned that position that's how it has often been that's right that's way it is way it is yeah they can't just dream up somebody five members of parks and wck cannot dream up somebody to put on this committee well when board not necessarily the way it always happens P point though because when I went when I excuse me when I joined planning board the person before me um was not a member of the planning board who was a representative to what committee was it open space and when I came on because no one was interested at the time but they had an interest in n space so that's what they so that that happens periodically I don't think it happens a lot to Ken's point I don't know if it's a question but I have as a question is it a requirement that they must be do we know this definitively it have to be they have to be a member of the other committees because I don't think that we should make that a requirement but if it ends up being all the race all I don't think we have that Authority on the Committees and I'm on the historic commission you got to be a member to be appointed on Parks and wck which I sered on the same way that's one of the rules okay parks and then we don't don't have one right it's vacant so that would mean we have to get somebody I mean so that's up to parks and wck we don't have any authority over that just like we don't have any Authority and these are recommendations to the select select board if parks and W doesn't give us anybody we just operate one less or the alternates fill in yeah yeah okay all right so I think we I think we need to clarify do we have any more suggestions for improvement for the select board I do okay G around um so I I think we should have um designated roles on the committee oh we do like oh well I'm not talking about officers I'm not talking about those so good good clarification thanks so I'm thinking and we started get down this path so I thought we were on the on the path here should have someone that is accountable responsible accountable uh for working with the town on the website and the technology for example right making sure that I think may be Jamie or someone raise your hand at some point um I was a community lay on but I think we should have someone as the point person that Fields the questions that actually answers the fqs I don't want to go to down to each other atole here it shouldn't be the town engineer it should be someone from our committee right so I think there should be someone designated as a community Point person person for FAQs for lesson you know we could talk about job description so speak um there should be someone that's responsible for uh working with directly with the town Engineering Group I understand the town engineer spends valuable nights with us and has been to a lot of meetings and he could still continue to but there should be a role of someone that understands the um what's happening the status on the engineering liaison so we don't have to always rely on either a third party or the engineer to show up and give us the updates that person should be there um so that type of thing and maybe I can think of a couple more but I see those as being um three important designated roles for individuals to have it be their focus I think that's an idealistic goal that in reality often doesn't happen with volunteers because when this committee was first structured the select board Ro reached out to the community and asked for someone with engineering background that's right and somebody with PR background they went through the whole list and this is what they get wait iology but so these um are not often so I mean you yes those so you're disagreeing I'm trying to figure out like is it does it make it to the list of recommendations or for what in my opinion is it changes periodically depending on what the issue very fair point yeah so you have people squirel away in something we dreamed up six months ago what you've got there is a responsibility of the chairman to get volunteers within the committee correct to address it at a time that it's needed if we if we start doing a structure well those I think those three are are are seasonal I think that's why I listed those three I think we always need to make sure the information is posted on our website that the website is updated that it's CL you know Community facing I think we need make on to the P PR that's I mean they don't have to be an expert in technology we have you know an what's that a sub chair of facts and a sub chair of websites and a sub chair complicated but I mean yeah as opposed to somebody who has engineering yeah they don't have to be an engineer appoint they're not they not coding websites right you just like taking the lead so that it spreads out the word it's almost like liaison report good thank you because it's like someone coming in oh I have a report from the engineers that I want to bring to the agenda right let me talk about okay so could I um a website person an engineer person in the community outreach for engineering understanding the segments the top topog you know not understanding but you know making sure that they have all the documents give it to the website person that post it so all these three roles will kind of work together okay very good that's interesting thing we talk wait a minute Ken more improvements from you uh I don't know so Scott's got a lot of ideas as to how to improve it and I do agree that those with what Eric was saying that those are idealistic needs you know it would be great if we could have all that I don't know whether we should you know write it in stone now it' be great to just plain assign those responsibilities uh in a regular course business well that's what an improvement is it's to improve the your course of business that's what I'm suggesting so we just I'm not I'm not this is not writing in our chart suggestions that the select board are looking for so fine I'm all in favor of those coordinations that I don't have anything in addition to you we'll just go around one more time then we'll move on to the next Bob another one we'll move on I will make come that's what should happen they described about the website but we can't that we the town broadly can't even figure out how to post meeting minutes from the last five years there's some big black hole someplace so I don't know and the website keeps changing so I don't know if our it people want so I know tcmc looks like getting their own website um Web Master whatever it was yeah and they were shot down right but maybe they were thinking because the town can't SE well we did this on the historical commission and our Facebook page and other things and website have gone from here to here in a matter of month so maybe we got the perfect person or whatever can be done then yeah maybe it can we can add Facebook person pleas well list we're just no I mean that might be a possibility it's true it's true suable idea yeah uh Bob do you have an additional thought what before we move on uh just that if we were 11 if we were a committee of 11 we had no alets um then a quum would be six I guess and and I would imagine that we could come up with uh 11 job descriptions one there's a chairman and a Treasurer and a secretary or three of them right off the top so um I'm just and beyond that I'm just uh uh thinking of throwing stuff off the wall in St War 6 so the idea that's just following up on Scott's idea of having rers okay there might be 11 possible rols even okay I think we've talked about that enough Tim do you have anything new no Scott anything new Ken anything new okay good the next item is they want us to discuss what has happened so in order to speed this conversation along I did up two flowcharts one is the inventory in the history of properties and Acquisitions that we've not only um looked into going through all the different Parcels along the east part of hopkington some that we gained some that we weren't able to yet and it's just it's a good piece of History to show how much we've accomplished got pass them on and from there I don't know how many more you need the second flow chart that I did and um sorry wait I got all right so this one is um this is a timeline of and this is all backed up by documents that are available on the website in few our minutes but this is our uh what we have accomplished over uh the last many years it starts in 2014 because Eric alluded to it took us a couple years to get our feet on the ground before we could really start to accomplish stuff so this I'd like to take a look at this because I think it's quite impressive um when you look at it this way to see how much we've been able to accomplish over the years we would pass those this is really a good summary of all the work that this committee has done and this doesn't touch this doesn't speak to everything but it was just the highlights when I went through all of our documents and minutes I tried to grab the highlights of each year and the stakeholders like for example on on the first page 2014 left y to they can that put over I mean in addition put over where the stakeholders are I mean okay so and for instance if you go from 2018 to 2020 the stakeholders for um the major stakeholders that we had discussions with that year with the Tennessee gas line for the easements and crossing the um the pipeline up on segment one and then we also had continued discussions with the state do so there are other outside agencies and departments that we have worked with that we had to work with in order to get I can see that now yeah thank you this sh what agenda item are we on we on still on [Music] number yeah we've moved to the yeah we have moved to four preparing report for so all of the information that we're collecting right now is going to be the report to the select board okay and so if you look at the number four it's broken down pretty much into four different pieces and so we look at that set from the bottom line about that has been accomplished yeah engaging these conversations about so it's under two a and we're now we're on 2B we're not B yeah what has been accomplished yeah there's a lot of institutional history here institutional knowledge is there any reason to think that any one of us could add something that yes to me it doesn't look like you missed anything but oh absolutely I mean um this is the first time people have seen it but this is not it was just my what I thought were the highlights you could I could fill up 40 pages if I wrote down everything what for example Eric sees something that you know what we forgot we did this well yeah send it to me send me an email and I'll plug it in oh tyo oh yeah we got a few typos we got a few spelling [Music] words sometimes spell check does it work so well this is property that we explored [Music] andir what are we looking at I'm looking at the inventory and history of property I'm just having a little time on right I'm just looking at this a lot of the inventory we were not able to at this the inventory does have to be updated but this is but but these are all these are things that we owners or stakeholders in the cas before that we've spoken to about you know locating the trail correct in other words on the first page 1 2 3 4 five it's listed as Janice Conley well now um Nation property bought that and we were able to renegotiate we were able to negotiate a a trail through that property well because of the well when they went before the planning board it was were able to [Music] yeah but that shows you the amount of work that we put in over the years considering all kinds of different properties and paths and um and you can see why some things would work and it was obvious to us that many things wouldn't work open space land around that that world it yeah that's what it's called now control yep costumes great so uh just to be clear the inventory one is uh it's got some 40 some lines uh the order is is what I'm not C on what the order is it's not in any it's not in any chronological order yes it's not in location order either no okay I think I took it from the um from the various minutes so we would talk about something back in 2018 and that's how the stuff got listed when we first approached um the Conley for instance that was very early on I think this is probably probably chronic logical order yeah oh I when we had the discussions as they went along approximate property in for [Music] SEL yes I believe so so we should we should revise this because so you want to do know yeah excuse me I it's don't buy the property no it's under the authority inhabitants of the town of Hopkinson own it but the board select board is no they can assign it any right they can but they don't have to correct and I believe they have crap f look if you look at the the U the title well it's Boris wman and then it may have obbc as a secondary of conom so this is my by the town that are owned by the conservation committee yeah no I know that historical commission school right and all that right no I know I know that okay so gentlemen this is this is my thought with these two flowcharts that we includeed in the report to the select Ward I it's it's it's just facts okay and we can try and update the the um see some on here the comments on the facts when's that to be done well tomorrow yeah they want my sense is I I if friend was here I would ask him but the um my sense from the last meeting the select board meeting was that they would like the report as soon as possible and I think that you know it's pretty straightforward um it's it's what did they say just a f just a okay so if we could move along what is in front of the committee so I'd like to start off this one I think the biggest thing that's still in front of the committee is to be able to submit the enf the environmental notification um we tried to do this two years ago and that's when all of the Ang started and it was too bad that it was not fully understood although it was try I we tried to explain it but it's very complicated but the fact is uh in order to apply for tip money which is the millions of dollars Mass Trails Grant will only they generally only allow up to what what is it 10 couple $500 maybe a, for for the uh Mass Trails Grant it's not a lot compared to tip tip money you can get millions of money I think it's tens of thousands so isn't it 10 it might be 5,000 000 now or something but the trails committee but Mal Mass Trails grants are 25 2,500 anyway no I don't think it's as big as 500 I think it is in the 10,000 range though somewhere I don't think so I think you can apply for two different grants you can maybe you can do two 5,000 or something like that one year they had a 5,000 Grand but generally they're usually 3500 or 4,000 but the mass tip monies is where the real big money comes from so we were interested in uh at there was a discussion several years ago probably three or four years ago now where we were very interested uh we had said um that we wanted our next move was going to be from hopkington state park down to East Main Street that's going to we got an estimate it was going to be couple million dollars to do just that one piece we'd never get that bill through Mass Trails so we have to we would if in order for the town to do that for to apply for that it would have to go through the tip money and that's where it's the same process similar process when you're applying for the schools use that process and if you get in a queue and it's seven years long but that what preempts that is that you have to have the State sign off on the enf the enf is just lines on a map it doesn't say uh and this was too bad this got so misunderstood and blown out of proportion because of that one little section on Hayden row less than a quarter of a mile people thought we were going to take their land just because the the line went down Hayden row it did go down Hayden row but there was absolutely no plans to um take anybody's property there was conversations about here's an opportunity if if it does get approved we could get the engineering in there if people approved to the engineering we could improve the roads we could improve the sidewalks we could improve the safety it was quite obvious after the last town meeting that people do not want that what but that line is still just a line in the middle of the center of I am starting to Envision this project as being a hybrid multi-use Trail I.E if you go through the school property you know you keep people off the road but we have yeah exit off on 147 which is town on property it put everybody out onto Hayden row and that's where they stay the pedestrians stay on the existing sidewalk maybe we can get the highway department to paint a line down there for the bicycles and then you let people travel back and forth from College Street up to 147 this is the way Ashland is is planning there moving this is the way Framingham is doing it this is the way the green belt the Green Way um East Coast Greenway has their Trails it is impossible nowadays to build a completely off the um off the road multi-use path in the woods because this area in Metro West and in the cities is so built up it's just never going to happen so I think we have to look at the fact that if this is going to be built and people do not want Road improvements or whatever that we could have offered we don't have to then that's we just put people on Hayden row it's the same thing if we come down from hopkington State Park all the way down to East Main Street we one of the lines on the enf map is to go across the street and through um Mrs meit's property and and up and back of Center School to the town common that is cost prohibitive it's just the town will never be able to afford that property right now so what the what the enf one we have to show two rout two different routs on the enf possibly three because that's what the state wants they want to see that we the town has looked into different alternatives for all of your different segments so that that line would so you still have to show the line we could still show the line going to bits because who knows it could be that that's what the town wants to do in 10 years when they find um you know a lot of property hand was raised oh okay well um so then um but that may not ever happen the reason why you need this enf it's an environmental notification what they are primarily looking at is the total number of wetlands that this Trail ultimately is going to impact and is there enough you would know this is there enough notation but reciprocation replication replication yeah so they that's what they would most likely be looking at and if they get the stamp of approval then we can apply for big uh monies from the from the U tipan so I think if this committee is going to stay in existence that has got to be something that has got to move quickly and if we are going to so that would be my recommendation to the select board that they understand the enf process and support our previous plan that we did and allow us to move on that question through the chair on that yes um so if it doesn't matter where the lines are because that's not a commitment it sounds like it's not a commitment at all but you have to show at least two or three various roots for each segment correct so so we could pretty much put the lines as long as we know that they're not we're pretty confident they're not going to go through Wetlands because it's really for wetland measure right we don't want to Violent we could pretty much be flexible and put the lines and not create CR diversity right now so no this has s the this has to be an honest effort on the town's part so that's why honest I'm saying if you're you're saying if if if the town vote the select board said not to get on H but we'll put the line because it doesn't matter I'm saying put the line someone else somewhere else to if it doesn't matter it does matter I heard I heard the words it didn't matter so no that was taken out of context I'm sorry about that um that's why it one one line would go down Hayden row and the other line is the Western alternative that uh Peter and the let me get this right is it the tcmc and the trails Club applied to yeah TR committee applied to the CPC and was awarded that that whatever it was $7,000 to do that initial um investigation into that and our committee at the time supported that that's why we said um we looked into that we couldn't do it we we will do everything we can to support you but because they felt like they could do it so that those would be the two lines one down Hayden row using Hayden row the way it exists and the other one would be the Western alternative and I think everybody agrees that that's what we all hope will do I'm not sure so I'm not going to comment on on the where the lines go or don't go because I think it it's a can of worms but I'm definitely in support of getting in the queue um I just think we have to be careful of where those lines go and that should be a separate discussion okay I agree I agree so a Next Step could be enf and we could leave it at that I don't think we should be talking lines of we should talk the next step is getting the kid yeah okay so anyway so that's my two senses that I think what what what do we have in front of us enf uh Jim so I think this is the time well can we get the select board to vote on or help us with the so-called Campus Connector M Derm Lane we got really really far on the planning and predesign of that whole that whole U section of Trail and uh and then we had to stop can we get them to while they're considering the Hayden r i saw someone here to have them vot if you remember Jim there was also talk about that if we were able to get the enf submitted and stamp of approval we could tie in a lot of the stuff that we have we could do second one segment I believe segment five segment six all the stuff that we're ready to go we could submit at that time I thought we were sort of well weant or shut down because of community we did that is 75% done what have the the final design work which is going to be like $400,000 have the money for we felt at the time that the town would not support that but there is a chance that a could be can we ask the select board if they support it I don't know I don't think we're ready to ask them anything this is this is Strike those comments from the record yeah a Way Forward too late um so I think that let's go to Eric what do you think that we could um what do we have going forward we've got the enf we've got mcder looking yeah because that needs to be done all right I think we have to finish the campus campus from Marathon School up around uh the school down across down the center Trail okay and up to okay that's a good goal how about you Bob um I think we need to find out whether all of the work was being planned for Hayden row as a result of the new school um could open up possibilities for our that weren't there before so like Scott you just hold off on all conversation on the Hayden Road just like we did before I mean know we I don't think it sorry is that you address me I'm not I don't think we should eliminate Bob's comment I'm saying that uh um it just opened up a can of worms to where the lines would go I'm saying what do we what we submit to the for the m is probably separate I don't think we have to itemize that for the select boards my submitting that that's next step Advocate but start saying where the lines are going to go and there it's gonna I'm agreeing Tim my to Charles well there was a time for comments and Selections in the beginning I hate to I would like to I would like the committee to get this done first I had a point give me a second um um G have to come back to me I I scratch down but I had a point I I gotta say uh I guess maybe we need to do this but I sure don't see a a path forward for doing it that makes any sense at all what so uh PA forward for doing what for drawing two lines for each segment so um I assume to get the money but okay just to be clear uh the easiest thing first it need not there need not be two two lines for the current Center Trail and downtown because they're done the parcels that are done Main Street Center Trail they're done so those are done but uh north of town the easy part for there to be two lines with one of them be right down Main Street and one of them uh down the uh the trails from the center school and when you get to Crossing uh Main Street preceding North one of them would be uh you're you're imagining would be past the marathon Museum and up uh kind of west of the current developments and the other would be right on the sidewalk on L SE Farm South North maybe is that is that yes another one could be there yes you gotta have a story I've taken but I don't I don't get when we bought when we bought the Fruit Street property yeah I took the in into the state and went through because we couldn't go forward without it we needed two positions position we wanted they bought because we sold it as what the benefits were the area they didn't want we didn't want it was easy to point out why we didn't want it we're not unreasonable people would have never approved what we had without giving them to option they want to see that we've put the thought and the effort into it my comment if you okay go for it quick before you before I forget so um so well two comments actually the first one is a Way Forward I think we should start hopefully do start and we have a kickoff of reinstating our group I think we start with an open public forum I think that's where we start I think next step should be to look eye to eye voice to voice with people the people that had the um that that signed the petition or whatever just sit in a room with them or virtual or not but have for that's sort of popped into my head here be helpful and and demonstrate that we're we're kicking off um and starting off a new foot the other point is I do feel angst and concerned in discussions like this because we still tend to wander in our in our discussions you know deep and then start debating things that aren't on agendas and things like that and I think that it goes to an area of improvement that I was going to mention I held back is I think we need to be very more disciplined in how we're focusing on our agenda and our topics and shutting them off and adding things to Future agendas or whatever so okay very good I agree with you by the way um any other um what is still in front of the committee we're trying to keep on track okay good maybe we can move on to the next one trying to be disciplined here how the committee envisions the charge I I think we already beat that to death we talked about that two or three times previously so we can say in there note refer to previous discussion um the fourth one is take a position that the select board does not support a along Hayden row as it was presented so I have two thoughts I'm this I thought was not it could have been clearer written clearer but we have to take it for what it is so there were two positions presented at the select meeting one was the upper Charles Trail committee uh presentation we had taken the position uh one position um that we had put Hayden row on on hold we weren't going to talk about that um but no one but the um the trails Club um no so the other group the citizens petition group kept bringing that up it was three dangerous Crossings forc land takings and other argument um on the town meeting so to ask this group to take a position on the the support along do we support take a position that the select board does not support a trail along Hayden row as it was presented that's a difficult one for me I don't think it's very clearly written it's never been presented we never presented it well the but they are voting about what the to Citizens petition so we didn't present that so let them do it all we want to say is we never uh arrived at a position and never presented one that's right and never recommended or we haven't decided committee and we've never made I think what I'm hearing also is that they want us to take a stand that we do not good put back in business and let us it no I'm not reading it as I'm looking at to take a stand I think this is just this was the the report this is just us having the for reference yeah I don't think they're looking all right let's go around the table Bob what's your take on this directive from the select board or maybe it's maybe I'm just confused maybe it's just me I don't think they're looking for re that's for them I think just for our information all right so but Tim what do you think I think that they're trying to communicate to us that we should mention that we know that the select board is unsupportive of okay we recognize right I'm not not quite so I think by recognizing it we're not saying we agree with it or not we're just recognizing it could we or is that a safe thing I think that's what you're G have yeah I think it's just an acknowledgement that we read we're working we want to work on it yeah and and I think it's an I agree with the point um that um there there needs to be refinement and clarification you know so I think that's part of the process we need to go through again we're making sure we we hear the voices that have spoken and that have voted and we make sure and incorporate whatever actions we take with that input that's all can you repeat that it was very well I don't think so actually no you say recognize point about over yes it is can I say that um on behalf of that um directive that we've been 100% supportive of um Peter Lego's proposition to plan a western alignment I don't know if it should be his or tcmc but at any rate um know that there was an alternative that was proposed and financed our finances were approved and um so we've that's part of our recognizing that matter has suggest I saw Finance plan okay I I like this it's more just because he did not come in with the inform we can do something okay excuse me gentlemen have nothing happened make the statement that it's EXC we supported the IDE excuse me to the chair it's there's an interesting comment in here that I just sort of jumped out of me I hadn't I'd read it a 100 times but I just noticed that accommodate the information the board is receiving from town residents I think it would be helpful I I don't know what's that I don't know I don't know but but I'm not even trying to that I'm saying have we perceived like has have we received that information because they get comments and emails and information all the time it'd be helpful to hear from the select board what feedback they interpreted is that unfair or no we can put it in because it's it's in here as it's it's the they've direct the town staff to actually take accommodate the information i' like anything right I I'm that's what I'm asking it's like it'd be nice if they can summarize like that for us you know all right Ken do you have any final thought because we are right at the end I think we're almost done I gotta say I don't like the wording of the last statement because I think it's just a terrible way to con tell us anything our statement I know I I know that and so it's hard to figure out just what to do about it but I think that Tim said I think what Tim said is right what they want us to do is to acknowledge that uh that the S board is not in favor of the trail going down Hayden row and it ideally it ought to be put off for uh until a town meeting changes that although we could so I I I'm unclear about this enf business whether whether it's okay for us to draw a line down Hayden row on that well but if we got draw two lines somewhere addressed it all we we did was we said we weren't G to talk about it anymore so I think we should continue but we drew a line down the middle of the road okay I think meaning gentlemen um to Scott's point we have finished our duties uh we haven't um now I did Scot didn't um well one of the committee members made a point that the minutes um were not authorized well I just had to mention that they came from the select board to me to include them and when I reached out after the conversation because it was a valid point um they said you can have the committee vote tonight I think they just want to get the you know off the books one more thing a motion to approve the minutes written does anyone want to read them again I do have a comment on I'm totally fine by that way I was just suggesting to slim down our agenda Eric that's so we're at the end this is a very last thing that was the only reason but I do have a comment because in the minutes it said um I paraphrase I don't have them in front of me but it it it said that I questioned whether there was a contract related to segment one that wasn't what I questioned I was asking if anybody had the verbiage or information associated with the scope of what we were voting on yes and no one could articulate it this isn't like an attack like no one articulated no one had in front of them and that's why I abstained so I'd like the minutes to be adjusted to reflect that to strike that I had questioned there's a contract yeah I was actually seeking either information written evidence of what I was voting on or verbal well I can I can say again all right so wait a minute let me if we're gonna I have to let me get my paper done I don't know what I did with my I can provide the words by email thank you that would be good because and that's fine so we'll approve approve the minutes and I do have some history I'm not gonna bother you with it tonight oh no big deal I but I would love to still see it whatever the CPC approved I actually went back approve the minutes as amended and you're going to send that to me because some new members voted on it and had never even read it okay yes you have a comment about minutes I I have a question are we select board asked for the minutes of our meeting not over some period of time no I don't know we submitted our last meeting yeah that was our last meeting not my question as part of the information that you're submitting to the select board are minutes from p meetings part of that everything is up to date except for this but are we giving those to select Force no we turn them into the we turn them into Conor they go to Conor the once they're approved anybody wants them they go there they just want to clean it up okay well that's between you and Connor I don't have any control over that not okay all in favor of approving the minutes as amended is there a second I second read so Eric um okay all in favor okay I'm abstaining for the reason I didn't take a very good look at it but they look okay I haven't seen anything I J G but but I I for them online no they went out with the packet they went out with the agenda did they yeah I didn't see it that's I saw no Jane emailed didn't add with the draft agenda oh oh oh a long time ago yeah so it wasn't it wasn't posted two weeks ago it wasn't posted on the website no they never they don't generally post okay do I hear um um um comments yeah okay if you have time um members uh Chuck did you have a comment who is this um yes um and I apologize this may be an issue of my hearing uh but um uh to the chair um the uh numbers that you quoted for Mass Trails grants um could you um I'm sorry please repeat that as their maximum I believe oh well my me I'd have to call them to be sure but my memory is uh maybe up to a couple of thousand dollars Mass Trails is not that much okay um I I am looking at the mass Trails grant website right now and I a brief quote Mass Trails provides grants to support recreational and Charity's pathway project across the Commonwealth the award maximum hands on the project type and needs is generally $100,000 for recreational trails and up to $500,000 for shared use path which is what the upper Charles Trails would be uh projects demonstrating critical network of connections for regional and Statewide significance I just wanted to make sure that your committee understands those limits um in their considerations okay that's news to me that could have changed in the last that seems a lot bigger than I knew of too yeah good for finding that chck could you forward that or somehow or give me the link or something um through my email I think you have my email uh I uh if not I'm sure I can find it um no but this is this is in the 2024 uh Mass Trail Grant applic ation period of the uh Mass Trail uh Grant over overview on the web uh from from uh the state okay thank you for that information okay yeah that's useful anyone else out there want to have a comment okay do I hear motion to adjourn second all in favor okay thank you very much everybody e