##VIDEO ID:ZTuZEqn12-4## [Music] all right good evening everybody Welcome to the township Palace planning board meeting for Thursday December 5th 2024 Eileen opening statement please I hereby declare this meeting of the Howell Township planning board to be open adequate notice having been given pursuant to the O New Jersey open public meeting act in the following manner first on January 5th 2024 a copy of said notice was emailed to the Asbury Park Press and the Star Ledger second on January 5th 2024 a copy of said notice was hand delivered to the clerk of the township of Howell third on January 5th 2024 said notice was posted in the office of the planning board and on the bulletin board in the Howell Township Municipal Building 4567 Route 9 how Township New Jersey in accordance with the fire prevention code and your safety please be advised that this facility is designed with two emergency exits which are at the front and rear of the meeting room furthermore smoking is not permitted in the municipal building please take note that this meeting is being videotaped for possible future broadcast on Howell Township 77 thank you and if I could just make a side note please make sure you turn your mics on or you speak into the mics because we're having trouble picking people up on the audio and videos after the meetings thank you thanks ien roll call please Mr Cristiano present Mr Greenfield is excused Mr leio present Mr Mercer here Mr tannin housee is excused Mr Withers is excused Mr Rebel here councilwoman fiser is excused Mr Carbonic here and chair huster here you have a quorum thank you at this time would everybody please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance and afterwards a moment of silence for our troops both here and abroad to the flag United States of America to the rep for it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right thank you all right the first uh item on our agenda approval of minutes for the regular meeting of September 19th 2024 eligible voters Mr legio Mr Mercer Mr Rebel Mr Carbonic and myself do I have a motion motion Mr legio and a second second Mr Mercer Mr leio yes Mr Mercer yes Mr reel yes Mr Carbonic yes and chairman huster yes motion carries thank you thank you uh I any correspondence uh just I did send out a uh an email with meeting dates for next year and asked for anyone to look them over and give me any comments I also left you one this evening at the de I don't know if anybody wants to discuss them tonight or if you want to leave until the next meeting it's up to you yeah we'll peruse and yeah okay get back to you um is everybody good on that uh class no uh Mr Withers and Mr Carbonic still have to take their storm water training I'll send you another email with the link tomorrow and uh not tomorrow Monday and if you can just take the class it's like 45 minutes it's the best 45 minutes of your life right and then just email me back that you took the class because we have to have that for our compliance thank you thank you and the only other item I have I also emailed ordinance 2448 uh to the members this week that was introduced by the council and that's up for public hearing an adoption before our next meeting so we need to comment for consistency with the master plan okay is that that's not on the agenda though no that's just correspondence okay do we have to vote on it tonight yes okay and Jen's G to tell you what it is Jennifer good evening so we have ordinance 2448 which is really just inclusion of two definitions one for boarding house one for rooming house and um I would submit to the board that that that clarification and cleanup of the definition is consistent with our master plan so I would I would recommend that the board um act on a finding of consistency with the master plan any questions I will entertain a motion I I'll make motion for approval it's not that's consistent consistent with master plan have a second I'll second Mr Mercer for the second thank you Mr Cristiano yes Mr leio yes Mr Mercer yes Mr Rebel yes Mr Carbonic yes and chairman huster yes motion carries thank you that's all I have on correspondence thanks alen uh resolutions case number SD 30005 Stanley doen it's a resolution ution granting extension of time eligible voters Mr Cristiano Mr legio Mr Mercer Mr Rebel and myself uh do I have a motion to memorialize motion second Mr Rebel and Mr Cristiano Mr Christiano yes Mr leio yes Mr Mercer yes Mr Rebel yes and chairman huster yes motion carries resolutions memorialized okay and the next is resolutions case number SD 3015 aome Wiman it's a resolution denying preliminary and final major subdivision with ancillary bulk variance relief eligible voters Mr Christiano Mr legio Mr Mercer Mr Rebel and that is it do I have a motion I'll make motion Mr Cristiano do have a second second Mr legio Mr Cristiano yes Mr leio yes Mr Mercer yes and Mr reel yes motion carries resolution to Memorial act thank you thank you all right on to submission waiver that's for case number SD 3016 benzion yre LLC for the preliminary and final major subdivision with ancillary variance and design waiver relief hi good evening Mr chair board members Jared Pape on behalf of the applicant as mentioned we're here seeking submission waivers did receive C's November 13th letter we're happy to defer to miss Newman who's uh who um outline the requested waivers set forth in in the letter you swear or affirm the testimony about provide this boards the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do so Mr chairman members of the board as was stated we have a November 13 2024 review letter um I know the submission waivers appear like a lot this is classified as a major subdivision but it's only the creation of two lots so for those reasons I take no exception to the granting of these waivers for the purposes of deeming the application complete got it okay any questions simple all right I will entertain a motion make a motion Mr Mercer do I have a second second Mr legio Mr Cristiano yes Mr leio yes Mr Mercer yes Mr reel yes Mr Carbonic yes and chairman huster yes motion carries thank thank you thank you thanks okay first application this evening case number SP 11113 271 Adelphia LLC it's for a preliminary and final major subdivision and preliminary and final major site plan good evening good evening Mr chairman members of the board for the record John Jackson on behalf of the applicant um since the last time we were here uh the board made a recommendation that we make access between the two properties you'll recall that we had you know basically two halves and the board thought it would be much more efficient to uh be able to allow access and then speaking to Mr morek who's here this evening that's actually better for their uh internal operations um because it will enable them to move the very heavy uh granite and limestone in between uh the two places uh Mr John Ray traffic engineer has indicated to me that cuts down on traffic counts internal circulation so it's a a great move um with your permission I would like to call Christine Naro kfon or planner uh although we've made minor revisions to the plan I think she can address those and we can go efficiently forward uh and just have Christine uh testify I have our engineer I have our architect I have our traffic consultant I have our owner everybody's here if there's questions but our plan is to uh just allow Miss cfone to go through with her narrative we think that will keep it sharp and focused sounds like a plan thank you so uh I can if I can hand out my PowerPoint and you can put it on the screen I have copies if I may do that while she starts before we start I just everyone that's sitting tonight is eligible Mr Carbonic has certified so oh I Mr I don't recall if I was sworn in last month I know I was we'll do it again just in case you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to provide this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes please State and spell your name for the record it's Christine cfone c f n e business address is 52 Reckless Place Red Bank New Jersey 07701 testifying tonight as a licensed professional planner I've testified in here in how on many many times and before hundreds of other planning and zoning boards throughout the state I teach Planning and Zoning courses for the Rucker Center for government services I am a court appointed AFF affordable housing special adjudicator and my licenses are current and valid good to see you again nice to see you as well chairman thank you um Mr chairman Miss missa kon's custom as she prepares an outline and uh in in lie of answering questions and back and forth I would just like her to give her analysis um and if I can just when M Rano gets a moment to put our PowerPoint then she could show you where we've done our connection well good thing it's me it's me I think I have to change the display settings come on come on so we can certainly just I guess start start talking about them while they're passing them out um so the board can understand what we did that you know I was here at the last hearing we put in a lot of testimony and then we decided at you know at close to the quitting time to adjourn so that we could make we heard the comments of the board and I think we did a few things that hopefully addressed your concerns and are going to make this a little bit more palatable of application the one thing we did which I think is probably the most significant to the functionality of the application is we made it so that you wouldn't have to go to leave the site to transfer between the two um the two buildings we heard we heard that comment from the board so we were able to make sure that we were able to have free flowing access between the two buildings that adds what I would consider a DI Minimus amount of impervious coverage I think um our engineer told me it was about 100 square F feet so not a substantial increase and certainly nothing that one caused us to change our storm waterer management design or two put us into any type of variance situation with regard to impervious coverage so we were able to accomplish that um which again avoids going uh the trucks going out onto the street if they need to go uh to the adjoining roadway Network the other thing we did was we were always providing a 50 foot space if you will distance between our Eastern property line that we share with fio and our building but what we did was we substantially increased the Landscaping in that area we have um it's not even just a double staggered row of plantings we added dozens of plantings in that area to create what's really more like a natural buffer now if you recall when we were here last Mr Ward had talked to you and when he was testifying he told you that we got some direction from the environmental commission that they wanted to have a clear path along that Eastern Eastern section where our buffer is essentially so that um any animals that wanted to you know use the property to Traverse and get through could do that and I I can tell you that with the design of our um our landscape plan even though we've substantially increased the number of plantings in that area we believe that we will still meet the environmental commission's goal to allow for animals to Traverse along that Eastern portion while meeting the intent of the ordinance which is to have buffering now the ordinance requires that we take our setbacks from the buffer area because it's a major subdivision so I would say that this is a commercial application right yes it is a major subdivision but that is a technicality so I would say we are meeting the intent of the or by providing a 50ft buffer the issue is now our building technically sits right up on that buffer because it's a major subdivision we would have to take the buffer set the setback the building setback from that buffer line and Christine can you please uh Miss Kone can you please address how narrowly we're considered a major subdivision I mean is that significant here that we you know it is and that's why I called it a technicality I me so it's really a technicality and and if the board recalls there was some question when we first filed this application if we were or were not a major subdivision the only reason we're a major subdivision is because of the number of lots involved and the way your ordinance defines subdivision if it involves I believe the way the structure of the ordinance is if it involves more than a certain number of lots it's a major subdivision so it truly is a technicality running from the you know the Genesis of definition of subdivisions in your ordinance um as to why we need to even have that otherwise we would just have to provide the 50 Foot um we wouldn't have it wouldn't have to be cumulative we wouldn't have to take our setback off of that buffer so very technical in nature and I would say a substantial increase in plantings um with dozens of plantings being introduced into that Eastern Eastern buffer and again there's a major industrial user on the other side of that buffer right Fazio sits on the other side of that buffer so we are providing a buffer to another industrial user um but nonetheless I know you know I certainly have been here enough to know the importance of buffers in this community so we went back to the drawing board and did you know did our homework there the other thing we did is we added on the architectural plans a designation for use as storage areas for materials um by by the site user if you had an opportunity to either go by the site I you know in preparing for this application had an opportunity to tour through the site I mean if you want to feel tiny go take a a a stroll through the building because they have enormous slabs of marble that they use there um and store them so we have those areas identified as storage area on the proposed buildings so that's what we did essentially to come back and try to respond to some of the concerns we heard last month um it does not trigger any additional relief so Mr Ward went through the relief extensively at the last hearing um we do need uh we do need another technical variance for our he did pull on the Southeastern portion of the property he got our our storm mot management structure out of that Basin but we do need a variance still because on the southern portion of the property where we have a driveway we have a a engineering structure a storm water structure under that proposed driveway so right if you see our Southern driveway coming off of squankum yellowbrook there is a deten or a storm waterer management structure under that driveway so technically it's in your buffer area but it's underneath a driveway and unless you were pretty familiar with these plans you wouldn't know it was there because it is under the ground and under the driveway so and the other variant that we're asking for is for the two signs and Mr Ward talked about um he showed you the location of those um they're at at our two entrance driveways we are proposing um a sign on each of those entrance driveways and I think given the size of this property and given the fact that it can be accessed from two separate and distinct roadways the additional signage would be appropriate the other relief that we were seeking um in addition to the storm water management and the the buffer was for the and the two pylon signs was to allow for the driveway width of 40t in excess where the 24 is permitted the 24 feet in width and Mr Ward testified that that was necessary for proper circulation and further that despite the fact that our driveway was a little wider we had no coverage variances and we're seeking no coverage variances so the site could certainly handle the additional impervious coverage um another uh waiver that we were asking was for the um the Landscaping in front of the loading areas uh that's just not a practical a practical function of the site but we are providing Landscaping certainly uh you know on the ends of the loading areas so they will be screened it will certainly be a filtered view from the screen or from the street level so we are providing for um a mitigating condition there we are asking for um I think we're we're continuing to ask for the relief to have a flat roof instead of a gabled roof but because we are proposing a parit it will hide the flat roof as well as hiding our HVAC so I think we're meeting the intent of the ordinance there and we also asked for relief for the parking to be greater than 300 ft to the door that's again just given the functionality of this building and the linear nature of the building some of our parking spaces are not going to be within 300 ft of the door and then we're asking additionally for uh relief that on Industrial and Commercial applications a 30 foot wide circulation AI needs to be maintained for emergency purposes so that's a little bit of a conflict in the ordinance because in one place we're asking for relief for it to go to 40 I can tell you that where we're less than 30 ft that is not where trucks are going that is located and is that is isolated to the passenger car sections of our site and Mr Ward pointed those out um and testified to them last month but I can tell you that that relief is where um where the passenger cars are located and then I think we are seeking a waiver for the lighting as well and Mr Ward testified to that last month as well and that we are dark sky you know dark sky compliant and that the uh the lighting levels allow us to minimize the amount of light poles and make it a more efficient plan so and a site plan of this size and scale I would say in my opinion I think the relief is reasonable to really the functionality of the site right most of the relief that you heard functions to the size of the driveways and um the ability to you know for the site to function properly so I think the board can grant the variance relief under the C1 and C2 section of the statute we are dealing with an existing building here that we are trying to internalize some of the um this site the part of the site that is used for outdoor storage that gets improved so the condition dramatically improves of how this this use is going to perform for the curb appeal of it so I think the board can look at certainly criteria M which talks about an efficient use of the land I think the board can look at criteria G sufficient space and appropriate locations for a variety of uses this is an as of right use on this loc this site legislatively the governing body decided that this use is appropriate here so I think criteria G is Advanced criteria I which talks about a desirable visual environment is also Advanced given the fact that the new building gives the applicant the really the ability to one like I said with criteria M use the site more efficiently but two create a desirable visual environment and that the new building allows for many of the things that occur outside to go inside so statutorily we would only have to advance one or more of the purposes of the municipal land use law to substantiate the variant relief under C2 I think that those three GI and M are all advanced and I think as far as the negative criteria there's no substantial detriment right the land you saw does not required you ask us to demonstrate that there's no detriment at all just that the benefits of the V the grant of the variant outweigh any detriment when you consider the fact that in Howell in the reexamination report in 2023 one of the stated objectives in that is to evaluate the potential for economic and Rehabilitation plans and strategic locations um and where appropriate so I think that this is a great location this site is really sandwiched in between two other industrial users and I think it certainly takes advantage of uh the the site attributes and to make an efficient site layout and that we are able to to mitigate any um any impacts with the Landscaping uh and architecture plans that are proposed by the applicant so I do believe in my opinion that we meet our burden of proof with respect to the grant of the variance relief and the waivers associated in conjunction with this application can can you please just uh show the board maybe we can uh zoom in where we've made the interconnectivity and how that works and and why you believe that's appropriate for the site and the benefit on the colored renderings that would be a good were you right there just zoom zoom in we may or may not be able to do that like all right well okay wait hold on hold on great there it is right so um you you can see it looks like a little driveway opening right there there we go it's almost in the center of the site so and what it does is it it allows you know the user from one part portion of the site to the other to Traverse you know truck traffic or any other need to get through the one site or the other clearly without having the ability to go to um any of the adjoining roadway Network which was the concern um as we understood it from the board last month and mrone you have spoken with our client Joseph morek who's here this evening you've been in the site you've walked the the the what they do right I have been inside as well as outside yes I've toured the buildings on the building on the site and have walked the site with the client with the applicant this has very large slabs of I'll call it Stone and material and equipment and it it just takes up a lot of room it's enormous like I said if you want to feel small take a walk through that building because they're very enormous slabs of marble that and there are a lot of them in there and that okay so that that's uh all the questions I have for our planner and that would be our case as well well Mr chairman unless you'd like to hear from Mr morek to describe the operations further or more information from Mr Ray or uh from Mr Ward or or from our architect as well thank you um what's up John Mr chair can I just ask a couple questions course John uh I'm sorry Christine did you talk about the building height I didn't because we've eliminated that variance okay so that's no longer variance we are not seeking a variance okay so what is the height now is the 4475 because it's been a couple of different things and I just want to make sure we're clear I know that let me just look at my notes Mr out is distracting [Applause] architect I was 44 and change Jennifer 44.7 4.57 I have that's what I have okay so it's less than the 45t that's for and that includes to the top of the parit I mean I'll have our architect confirm that but okay so I'm going to assume that that's the case for now they'll have to check that if because we do include the parit in the overall Building height so if it's above the 45 it still would be considered a a c variance but I just wanted to put that on the record but before we get to that they can look into that um a couple of things that we identified in our letter which was um we deferred to sh Char with respect to the appropriateness of the Landscaping within the 50 ft Laura has indicated that Char she has a couple comments but she is satisfied with the Landscaping in that 50 ft great I also don't disagree about the testimony regarding the requirement for a major subdivision to have the 50 feet then then plus the setback from the 50 feet that is really intended for a residential major subdivision if you guys recall there was a lot of concern way back when where they would put the 50 Foot buffer and then there'd be like no usable backyards in the Lots so the setbacks off that buffer for a residential backyard was intended to make sure that those residents have place to put a pool a swing set and what have you really wasn't envisioned for commercial industrial major subdivision so I don't take exception to that and uncharacteristically I also don't take exception to the B in the buffer only because it's under the drive if it was elsewhere I would have a problem with it but that area already is maintaining allowable disturbance obviously you're allowed to go in and out of a site so as long as it remains within the confines of that I don't take exception God bless you to that at all um there were a couple two other things that I don't know I apologize if you said it and I missed it one was I know you talked about the two signs but but there also was relief in our letter for landscaping around the base of the signs I did I don't know if you testified to that but we would ask that you I would think we could do that I me you would landscape around the base of the signs work with your office or sh sh's office got the and then the only other thing I have is we have a variance required for the fence and I apologize I wasn't physically here when you guys were here the last time so I'm not sure if you're still proposing my ever favorite chain link fence I believe we have agreed to do white vinyl and at six feet reflect that we eliminated the relief and that we are not doing the chain length because well if it's in the front if it's I don't have I don't take exception to it but if it's in the front yard at 6 foot solid you would need relief for the six foot solid in the front yard because which I'm assuming is for security purposes correct yes so a 4 foot 50% open in your opinion would provide less security well I think the seat the chain link or the um vinyl would clearly be a better zoning alternative because I think aesthetically it's going to look much better and be more secure I agree and but the height too is six feet where in front yard we typically require four then we would need relief I think that for security purposes as long as you can commit on the record and whether this is you Mr Jackson or you Christine that the six foot high solid fence is not going to impede like a sight triangle or any kind of distance for that safe Ingress and egress to the site we'll make certain that it does not and we'll ulate to that so that's all I have Mr chair Laura and then Mr chairman if I could um obviously I have nothing from an engineering uh perspective but Sher who couldn't be here this evening because she's ill did note that she had requested two trees be saved along Adelphia Farmingdale and she just wanted noted that one of them that that they've identified was not the one that she chose so I just want to make sure that they coordinate with her save the two trees as she requested it'll require just a little adjustment in how the burm lays out but otherwise she took no exception to the plan Mr ward has indicated we can agree to that as well save the trees all right great anybody from the board anything what's the width of the uh driveway interconnecting the two properties 30 yeah 30 feet that's about how far away Mr Ward is from me your existing driveway if you guys can put their existing driveway you guys on the road right yes that one or the other one that one the old one okay are we going to be doing because you at the new at the two new driveways you're going to be curbing everything okay and you're going to be whing it out with new arrows and all that are we going to fix his existing driveway too so everything matches because it's old yeah no uh CH do I have to be you're under oath from Le were you previously sworn yes you remain under oath just please state your name for the record Patrick Ward with Insight engineering yeah so this was under the jurisdiction of the County planning board for both sides um they didn't require any adjustments now that being said um we can clean that up and put arrows it's kind of a this is going to be the worst Boulevard at entrance you could see but there's a there's a driveway in driveway out with like a center Island I see it's right we could add we could clean that up and add um Stop Bar and uh arrows as well directional arrows and if there's a stop sign needed we can add that too we have no problem doing that but you just saying existing they it a little safer you know sure so and then what did we last time Jen with the with the warehouse are we going to be renting any of the space out or we didn't get an answer on that well I think go ahead Mr Jackson thank you I my my client uh came from Soviet Russia drove a cab in New York he started this business he's he's a Survivor type Scrappy type of man and he says I'm making this enormous investment I would like to have the flexibility for the future I'm not going to live forever to someday have two tenants in there that's not his intention now but we would not want to preclude that based upon the nature of the investment and and the style here so we we would it will be one operator uh for the time being and but we would like that flexibility to have it two spaces in the future if possible but only two yes yes on on each two on one side and then the one on the other so three total three total yes which the septic system could handle all that that's a Mr Ward question and he's saying yes and then yeah and they would have to get sign off from the county on the septic anyway yeah just saying if it went from three to six you know and then we would have to come back to the board we would agree good okay anything else I'll open it up to the public the public has any questions at this time seeing none I will close the public portion Mr Jackson thank you uh you know I I hope the board this as a success story we've made some revisions based upon the board comments we're hopeful that and and we went through a long review process with the board professionals they worked us over the whole way along and uh we believe this is a good application the appropriate location we're hopeful the board sees it that way as well thank you thank you and I do appreciate this I think this makes a lot more sense um from the previous application so I do appreciate that um all right at this time I'll entertain a motion I will make motion for approval Mr Cristiano do I have a second second Mr Mercer second Mr crisano yes Mr yes Mr merer yes yes Mr yes yes well done thank you very much have a good evening thank you all right moving right along to our second and final application this evening is case number SP 11108 howl Crossing LLC this is for a preliminary and final major site plan with ancillary variance and design waiver relief yes for all those things good evening good evening Mr chairman board salvor aling on behalf of the app S I feel like we haven't seen you in a while I know I miss you good to see your face I don't have enough nights out usually she had it all loaded up from that's really more what it is she not getting anywhere though Place yeah the I got excited I was like my God okay we working on it right now L flor's yours s thank you all right even Mr chair again members of the board salvator alfery query G Kobe alfery and Jacobs on behalf of the applicant um this is the application for uh two medical two Office Buildings on Route 9 near the 195 uh interchange um we're waiting for oh la has it we have several witnesses we have our civil engineer we have the architect uh we have the traffic engineer and then Christine cfone as a planner to deal with a few of the bulk variances that we need for the project um as you can see from the exhibit um the development is is all along the one side and the balance of the site is constrained so there's there's no disturbance um on the right side of your screen Ryan mcder is our civil engineer we're going to request that he be sworn in so he could begin his testimony you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to provide this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please State and spell your name for the record Ryan mcdermit MC d r m o TT and Ryan um would you advis the board by whom you're employed and um we're seeking to have you qualified as a civil engineer can you place your credentials on the record certainly licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey I graduated from Ruckers University with a bachelor's of Science and Engineering I'm a principal Dynamic engineering consultant so I've been with the firm for about nine years um and throughout the course of that time I've managed and designed uh various commercial industrial and residential projects throughout the state Mr chair unless there's questions on this CR we will accept your credentials thank Youk very much thank you and Ryan do you want to start with a specific exhibit or do you want to refer to what Laura has on the screen so we had submitted an aerial map exhibit if we don't have that available we could just scroll back to sheet two of the Civil set which I believe is what we're looking at here I can go there but yes perfect thank you very much so this is the aerial map this is sheet two of the uh civil drawings that we had submitted starting with the property in question it is block 59 lot 51 it's approximately 25.6 acres in size located in the HD1 Highway development Zone property is bound to the north by the entrance ramp to Interstate 195 eastbound to the east is wooded area with single family residential uses Beyond to the South is Northwoods place with single family residential uses Beyond as well as a variety of commercial uses up and down the route 9 Corridor and then to the West is Route 9 with wooded area and residential further beyond that across the street for General orientation purposes here the north Arrow points towards the left side of the screen and the property is that um oddly shaped parcel right in the center of the map there I'll also point out that we have a slip ramp towards the bottom right side of the property which leads from Northwoods place again on the souths side right side of the property as shown on the page here that slip ramp leads from Northwoods place to Route 9 Northbound along the bottom portion of the site under existing conditions it is undeveloped and comprised of wooded area approximately 2third of the parcel is encumbered by environmental features such as lands flood Hazard area and Rari and buffer the regulated areas are associated with tributaries of the Plover Brook and are located along the south and east sides of the property the applicant has a valid freshwater wetlands letter of interpretation as well as a flood haard area verification from njd which verifies the locations of the wetlands stream features and the associated buffers if you don't mind could we uh scroll to sheet uh five of the set here if you don't mind perfect thank you very much this is the overall site plan page from the Civil set page five again for General orientation purposes the north Arrow points towards the left side of the screen with route nine running on the West Side that's the bottom of the map here we're here tonight seeking preliminary and final site plan approval for the construction of two four-story Office Buildings with Associated parking loading driveways storm water management facilities and other site improvements Office Buildings are permitted in the HD1 Zone and as required under ordinance section 188-199 it's four stories with a footprint of 21,000 752 ft for a gross floor area just above 87,000 Square ft Building B is located in the Northerly corner of the site and faces the i1 195 ramp it is also four stories has a footprint of about 9,000 square ft for a gross floor area just above 36,000 Square ft these Office Buildings are anticipated to have typical 9 to5 operating hours Monday through Friday and can accommodate multiple tenants depending on the market conditions at the time when these are up and running you'll see a variety of Tenon sizes ranging from maybe about 2,000 square ft up to plus or minus 20,000 Square ft now each of these buildings has a proposed height of 49.1 Ft when measured from average grade elevation 5T around the perimeter as is required by the ordinance up to 45 ft is permitted in the underlying zone so we do need bulk variant relief you'll hear a bit more from that from our architect and our planner as well with respect ECT to site access it's a bit unique here because of the odd shape and location of this property specifically because of the limited Frontage on Route 9 which abuts a shared acceleration and deceleration Lane NJ do prohibits us from accessing Route 9 directly again because of that very narrow Frontage on the bottom of the page here the west side of the property right outside of that site where root 9 is it's a shared acceleration Lane onto the route 9 ramp or excuse me from the Northwoods Place ramp R and A deceleration ramp deceleration Lane which leads to 195 eastbound therefore because of the restricted access directly to Route 9 the applican is proposing to purchase that slip ramp we talked about earlier at the southwesterly corner of the site purchase that from the dot and repurpose it as a two-way driveway to serve the development it's located in approximately the same location as it is today however we are widening it from about 22 ft to 30 ft and obviously rather than leading to Route 9 it will be reconstructed to serve as the access point for our site essentially we're going to have a full movement driveway along Northwoods place with the majority of traffic coming from and going to Route 9 as you'll hear from our traffic engineer sections 188 225 G1 and 188 132a requires sidewalks along the entire Frontage of the subject property starting with the route 9 Northbound Frontage here again the bottom of the page the closest sidewalk south of our site is on the opposite side of Aldrich Road which is about a half mile away to the north the closest sidewalk is on the opposite side of verdana way which is about a mile north of our site essentially with the ramp to I15 this stretch of Route N9 is not very conducive to uh pedestrian traffic here then as we look to Northwoods place I don't believe there is any sidewalk works in the adjacent residential development to the South furthermore our entire southernly property line along Northwoods place is encumbered with a flood Hazard area reparan zone and even a portion of the flood way so it's really not feasible to put a sidewalk there therefore the applicant is Seeking a waiver and instead would seek contribution to the sidewalk fund so if I could just interject we want sidewalk on Route 9 so the distance to other sidewalk on Route 9 for me is irrelevant because because we're trying to create a connected network of sidewalks on nine the bus stops along Route 9 a lot of people walk along Route nine and if you actually took an aerial and you flew it you will see the dirt path where the people walk currently so I think at a very minimum sidewalk should be figured out on how to address you know along the Route n Frontage I don't disagree with respect to the Northwoods Place Frontage there's environmental uh issues associated with that um but I do think that the applicant should attempt to provide sidewalk along the Route n Frontage thanks yeah we can we can work with the applicant to look at that again I I hear you loud and clear our initial thought was that it's a heavily trafficked area with the ramps and jug handles there especially picking up speed going to the 195 ramp that's why initially we did not propose it but if that's what the board wants we will certainly take a look at that I mean we required it I don't think it was this board I think it was the zoning board but like the ramp down by twin Pon Farm The Jug Handle that we required sidewalk along that as as well so I think the goal of the town is to get a complete sidewalk Network along rout n that's fine okay and we'll pay to the fund for the north I mean ultimately it's your decision but that would be my recommendation parking sure moving along to parking here we have 100 or excuse me 421 total parking spaces provided whereas the ordinance requires 412 spaces at one space per 300 squ F feet for office uses of the 421 total spaces 298 will serve building a and 123 spaces will serve Building B each building will have electric vehicle Make Ready spaces to meet the state requirements and will be designed in accordance with Ada standards for parking technically the Northerly property line again the the left side of the page here the Northerly property line which is adjacent to the i1 195 ramp is a front yard with a 60ft front yard setback section 188 11b prohibits accessory structures in the front yard where the environmental encumbrance is here located to the the east and south of the property really push our development towards the north side of the site so we do have improvements proposed within the front yard including basins retaining wall a 4ft fence a guide Rail and parking spaces so variance relief is required however this front yard does a of ramp to the interstate with no discernable impact on the surrounding uses um and you will hear a little bit more about the relief from our planner as well with respect to site circulation our primary drive aisle which leads from our driveway at Northwoods place along the east side of the development back to Building B is 30 ft wide the drive aisles for the standard parking areas around the buildings are 25 ft wide ordinance section 188-189 6 f1a States on Industrial and Commercial applications a 30 foot wide circulation aisle must be maintained for emergency purposes so our site has been designed to accommodate circulation for a fire truck refug trucks box trucks while one of these ordinance sections encourages a narrower Drive aisle which is likely an attempt to minimize the amount of impervious coverage the other ordinance section encourages wider Drive AES for safe circulation so we've Incorporated a mix of 25t and 30 foot wide aisles here are providing adequate vehicle circulation around the buildings throughout the parking areas and at the driveway so we do feel that the intent of this ordinance was met for an office development such as this particularly with respect to the Loading operations we would anticipate that the largest delivery delivery vehicle accessing the site is an s30 which is your typical box truck building a has a striped loading area adjacent to the southerly facade just to the right of the building there and then Building B has a striped loading area north of the building it's about 35 ft away and the applicant will be providing direct sidewalk access to the loading zone from the building which was a suggestion by the board engineer even though there are no intervening driveways or parking areas because it's not directly adjacent to the building we do technically require waiver relief from section 18816 I2 similarly because this is a shorter loading space designed really just for box trucks approximately 35 ft in length as the ordinance requires a 60t long loading zone waiver relief is needed for the size of building B's loading space with respect to refuse and recycling operations each building has its own 10t X 20ft masonry trash enclosure which are located adjacent to the loading zones trash and recycling would be picked up by a private hauler on an as-needed basis typically that's a couple two to three times per week moving along to storm water management design the project is considered a major development per njac 7 colon 8 which is the state stormw regulations because it deserve disturbs more than one acre of land and increases motor vehicle impervious Surface by more than a quarter acre the project has been designed to meet the storm water quantity quality and groundwater recharge requirements set forth by the state and local requirements the proposed storm waterer management facilities include a series of roof leaders inlets and underground conveyance systems as well as one above ground infiltration Basin two above ground bio retention basins four pervious pavement systems and one underground infiltration Basin section 188-192 requires parking areas to be constructed with a surface course at least 1 and2 in thick and a base course at least 3 in thick our perious Pavements are about 3 to 4 feet thick so we do meet that ordinance requirement the majority of storm water runoff on site is directed to one of these various basins and then discharged through one of three outfall structures where it is ultimately tributary to the stream features that are located on the easterly and southerly portions of the parcel due to the aforementioned wetlands and flood Hazard area encumbrances on site storm water management design was subject to uh review from the DP and the applicant did receive a flood Hazard area individual permit from the D there were a few technical comments from the board engineer in the most recent review letter uh few of which deal with the grading and storm water management design the applicant would happily comply with those should the board decide to act favorably on the application moving along to buffering and Landscaping under Section 188-pound section 188-200 prohibits structures disturbance storage of materials parking of vehicles and storm water basins in the buffer area furthermore section 18863 requires at least two of the following within the buffer Landscaping fencing or walls at least 10 ft High a landscape BM at least 6 feet high a building setback from the buffer of at least 200 fet or a parking area setback of at least 100 ft with required screening we have residential zones with residential uses located along the easterly property line again that's the top of the page here across Northwoods plac to the South that's the right side of the page here and across Route 9 to the West which is the bottom of the page we are providing a compliant buffer along the easterly property line I personally walked the site with the Township's licensed tree expert to review the state of existing vegetation and Miss Sparrow had requested that we preserve the buffer vegetation along the easterly property line uh so we are doing that and the applicant is further supplementing that buffer with new trees as well as another 32 plus or minus feet of horizontal separation between the property line and our closest parking area so that's on top of the 50-ft buffer we have over 80 feet between the parking spaces for Building B at the top of the page there and the easterly property line Furthermore with the exception of the entrance uh driveway being relocated the slip ramp we're not disturbing any of the existing vegetation along the southerly property line which faces Northwoods place and although we're not proposing any parking in the Westerly 50ft buffer along Route 9 our Access Road does go through that buffer and we have a section of retaining wall with an above ground Basin which approached into the buffer section 1881 12a restricts fences or walls from being more than 4 feet high when located in the setback and more than 8 ft High when outside of the setback our proposed retaining wall in the front yard along the Northerly property line there reaches a maximum height of approximately 6 ft and the wall along the east side of the main Drive aisle reaches a maximum height of about 9 ft and that's on the back portion opposite of the ramp our proposed landscape design includes 247 total trees many of which are located within the easterly and Westerly buffers I just spoke about as well as along the main Drive aisle to meet the street tree spacing requirements of at least 20 ft from the curb line but with the limited space on the side of our relocated Drive aisle and slip ramp our trees are closer to the road than that 20 foot requirement in addition to the 247 trees we have 658 shrubs 412 ground cover plantings 51 perennial plantings 821 ornamental grass plantings for a total of 2,189 new plantings on this site and at the request of the board professionals the applicant has agreed to add more Foundation plantings around the building specifically on the short sides of each building in accordance with Section 188-195 pole mounted fixtures ranging from 20 ft to 24 ft in mounting height 19 wall mounted fixtures spread throughout the buildings section 188-223 foot candles with an average of 0.5 foot candles maximum we meet the minimum requirement throughout the pavement areas and when you average this across the site have an average which is well below the 0.5t candle maximum with respect to utilities for the development Water Service starting with water service each building has a fire service and domestic Water Service which will ultimately connect to the existing main within route n we've added fire hydrants at the request of the Fire official and we'll be updating the plans to include fire striping per his request as well for sanitary sewer each building has its own separate sanitary lateral and then we have a combined 8in trunk line which is tributary to the existing Main in Northwoods Place gas service our proposed gas connection will connect to the existing Main in Route 9 and and then for electric our proposed underground electric service will connect to the existing utility pole along Northwoods place and I'll just touch quickly on the signage which is proposed here the applicant is proposing a 36 sqt Monument sign near the Wester property line along Route 9 it will be 12T long by 3 feet high and complies with the ordinance each building will have a single wallmounted sign the sizing of which will comply with the ordinance here as well and we will be lowering the sign on building a to meet the height requirements I know that was a comment in one of the review letters uh so we will be lowering the sign uh to avoid the need for variance relief there a couple quick followups you did mention the fire um hydrant comments we did receive a fire report from May of May 6 of 2024 with three comments we would agree it would comply with those comments that cor that's correct you also mentioned the CME report and the storm waterer management comments but there are other technical comments contained within that report more specifically when you get to the um after the primary comments after page eight there's a series of pages that have technical comments have you reviewed those comments we have and we would agree to comply with all those um a couple other questions that are raised in the CME report one relates to phasing will this project be phased or will the site improvements to be phased there's no phasing proposed at this time okay um and I'm just making sure we hit everything else on that yeah I think I did and then finally um actually that was it so Mr chair we're finished with the engineering C can you go through the this piece of land that you're potentially purchasing the the the throughway whatever you're I forget the term for it slip ramp and and Ryan that would be purchased from the state right the dot correct that would be purchased from the DOT so um yeah it's zoomed in on this corner here so you have The Jug Handle at the bottom right corner the southwest corner we're not touching that uh what we are planning to repurpose is that exactly right where that cursor is right now that leads to Route n we're planning to relocate that on our site to serve as our driveway we've applied to the dot we've had pre-applications meeting with uh pre-application meeting with them um and that is the current proposal we are working through our final permitting but that's what we're proposing to do better you guys have a better picture of this whole thing wait I'm just curious there's a so the ramp that's a ramp off of nine right a little Jug Handle but then there's one that goes right from Northwoods right to Route n so they don't have to wait at the light really you look on the screen I don't think I've ever seen that ever correct correct wow so then this would just all become landscape where this kind of SKS off this paved area correct it is uh it's definitely unique undertaking I didn't even know it was there to be honest with you I've been here years is there some uh undergrad piping to kind of carry these tributaries beneath this and does this relocation affect some of that yep so we got our permitting from the state for that already gotcha okay so that slip ramp from Northwoods is going to go into the property that's correct if purchased that's correct got and if not purchased we can't build this yeah we we again what are the preliminary conversations I mean I'm sure they've been had already yeah they're pretty far along okay just in case the those board members that were not here years ago this site was approved uh got preliminary approval for a hotel and that exact same driveway configuration was part of that development as well to modify the slip ramp and um have the access point onto Northwoods and that's primarily because the do will not give us direct access online the amount of times I made that jug to get happy and I never I was just saying that the John I know that I know that Jug Handle very well that's crazy come out of Northwood it's easy to go online you don't go to the light you go right out so they'll have to go to the now they'll have to go to no now you're going to have to go to the light yes well that's you know take away one get the other but that's on a big development back there I was just asking if you guys have better you got better renderings of this whole thing of the of the whole site like pictures better we did some some I don't know if there's access to them right now I can share handouts as well if that helps yeah we have a colored rendering of the site and then we have NE here we have a hand out I emailed [Laughter] to but that's going to add to what's good about that what's good about that like that was a light you know what I mean if that was a light the left to go on would force everybody to go north and then what I'm saying Force everybody to go to stores and then come back if you're going sou was that what we that was I don't see on okay have enough everybody so so the the retaining walls are encapsulating the basins so the the front of the wall the toe of the wall is the bottom of the Basin and then the basins are retaining the parking and the uh roads on the high side right so that's what is that like um just a modular block like MSE wall probably like a keystone block wall yeah they haven't been fully designed yet but because they are greater than 4T in height we do have to provide sign and sealed engineering drawings for those right yeah you need geogrid and all that good stuff correct so Mr chair we this is new for tonight so we need to Mark these so what are we up to yeah it's quite and the um the pervious pavement is that included in the operations and maintenance manual the upkeep because I know it gets silted up over time so that'll be maintained by the landlord and owner that it's cleaned out that's correct and that's a usually requirement usually recorded in the county clerk's office so that the subsequent owner knows they have the obligation yeah same Bas yeah it's just the the perious a lot quicker so it's something everything is owner maintained collect taxes um so you have the colored R you saw the area already that was on the screen so you now have the colored rendering you can see how much green there is to the South I guess that is that's correct the South and the east chair were there extras I could put them so the public can maybe look at them pretty I I'll be honest um I'm just going to be honest here I I I I need to hear the traffic testimony and because to me visually this looks like a nightmare um the the Ingress ESS and I know offsite traffic cannot be factored into this application I understand that but the Ingress egress to this property knowing what goes on currently and then factoring in what is it 400 spaces 400 cars possibly I I just I don't know yeah I'll listen but we have traffic we're going to bring the architect next because it's rather easy and then traffic will be right after the AR was there any talk about just out of curiosity a light at the egress in Ingress off on Northwoods not sure yeah we'll have to ask Justin when he comes up my sense Mr chairman I mean we'll hear from the traffic engineer but that's too close to the existing signal at Route n I just have a couple of things I'm sorry I just did you um I don't know Ryan I apologize if you talked about this already there's a provision uh in the ordinance that you have one tree for every 10 parking spaces and I know we discussed this at length at the TRC they're requesting the waiver for that we had suggested that they take whatever vegetation would have been required to make that compliant and place that like in the buffer or elsewhere on the site because as I'm sure you imagine those islands in the parking lot never really work the way they're intended to they get hit the plows don't like them they become tripping hazards ashtrays Etc so as long as the requisite my recommendation is that the requisite number of trees be calculated coordinated with Sherry and then distributed on the site elsewhere M um but they technically would still need the waiver for that right uh I think there was and Mr chairman while Jen's um going through her report um also the applicant needs to seek a waiver to make a contribution to the tree fund yes so just so the board is aware of that and then EV I I did I miss that um I apologize if you did it we are providing EV spaces I know there was a comment about providing one additional space we will absolutely provide that um I just have a couple more uh on my on my letter dated today uh page eight we just had to note that that um the plants just need a little clean up with respect to like the height of things such as like walls fences and those types of things and adding details is that something you would agree to absolutely also we had a question about the condition of the chain link fence along the Westerly property line did you talk about that at all I believe that's intended to be removed okay uh that's all I have okay anybody else have questions call our [Applause] architect you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to provide this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I please State and spell your name for the record John srao S a AC I'm a principal of John srao architect LLC and John uh your credentials please yeah I graduated from rener poly Technic in 1981 got my license in New Jersey in 1985 been actively practicing since then um I'm in front of boards on a monthly or um maybe twice a month throughout the state of New Jersey for various types of projects thank you we'll accept your credentials thank you okay and the rendering that's on the screen now is the rendering you prepared is that correct correct could you just just generally they obviously could see it but just describe the materials and the design please yes um this is this is the um the Eastern Building uh building uh I think we're calling it Building B I'm I'm sorry we're calling it North and South this is the uh North building this the smaller building building um you can see the four stories um the three upper stories have floor to ceiling glass on the uh the glass is interrupted by um concrete um concrete patterns um uh on all facades I should point out that the um all four sides of the building is treated equally there's no front of the building no back of the building it all looks equally the same um what's what this is designed as a Class A office building um the client is looking to attract um top clients here top tenants um and uh amenity space is becoming extremely important in the office uh market today and you could see on the left side of the building and there's also on the right side that you can't see we are providing balconies for the tenants of the of the building um on the ground floor we Clos it up a little bit with punch out windows you could see that in the corner uh next to the man they in the corner there um and we have a canopy at the center of the building designating the entrance to the building um if we can go to um do um how are we doing who has control here oh oh very good thank you very much okay okay if you don't if you could go to pb200 that's the FL plans she has something up in uh very good okay so this is the uh south building uh the larger building um closer to Route 9 and um if the the bottom plan is the first floor plan um you could the entrance to the there's an entrance at both sides of the building at the top of the building and at the bottom of the building facing the large parking lots and um we have a double Bay elev uh two elevators surfacing the building you can see our two egress stairs on each each side of the corridor leading out to the back of the building and of course um bathrooms mechanical spaces uh in the uh off the core of the building I should point out that the building is being designed as a vanilla box um there are no specific tenants or use uh type of tenants uh at this time um so we are proposing just the core and the shell of the building uh at this time when we go um when we go to the Upper Floor Plan that's that's a plan reflecting the second third and fourth floor of the building again you know the core um obviously gets a little smaller we don't have the main lobby on the first floor any longer and you could see the two hatched areas on the left and the right side of the building those are our balconies um for for tenant use that occurs on all three of the upper floors um it's it's a little hard to read but the you could see the there's large expanses of windows again floor to ceiling Windows that's interrupted with the concrete Piers so um there's going to be a very strong visual um component um to being inside these Office Buildings when we go to pb2 200 the following page um the the upper elevation um is the ele it's both the East and the West it's a symmetrical building as I said we're treating all sides of the building equally the same so um I'm calling this both the East and the west elevation um and just to get into the height our our technically our building height is listed at on the drawing at 49 fet0 in um we just want to correct that because the technically the height of the building should be measured from the average grade around uh 6 feet around the building and the sidewalks are going to pitch a little bit away so really our building height would be 49 fo1 that's a little technicality um the sign I should just point out that ABC Sign obviously generic um that will be lowered um so we don't ask for a variance Mr mccormic pointed that out can I just stop you there I I understand that you don't want to ask for aarian I'm just curious I I don't have a problem with where it's located on the building I think based on the facade that's generally where it seems to fit so if you were to lower it where exactly would you put it that it wouldn't look out of place I I that's a very good so what what we could do is we could lower the window height um in these in the punch out windows in the concrete um facades we could lower that window head a little bit and we could make the sign a little bit narrower and or you could ask for the variance or we could ask for the variance yes and that's just a thought I mean I don't know how the board feels about it but and they do know that I don't generally talk in a positive way about the architecture that we get here on a regular basis I think the buildings look fantastic I think they're complying with all the requirements in our ordinance which are difficult to comply with with the physical bump outs Etc and even though you do have a flat roof we don't prohibit flat roofs we discourage flat roofs so there's no relief associated with that I would Advocate and again it's up to the board I would Advocate s that you seek the relief for the location just because I think that that's where it looks like it's supposed to be right like when you drive past a a bigger building especially given where this is located right on 19 5 which is elevated to begin with on Route 9 um but again it's totally up to you I think if you lower the sign I think you're going to lose it in the I I I agree I appreciate that very much so I mean it's up to you s to decide what you guys want to do and then it's ultimately up to the board but I would take no exception if the applicant were to I think the architecture is great and I would hate to muddy it by lowering the sign just to lower it right we would prefer as long as the size is compliant I don't have a problem with where it's located it would be compliant we would prefer to keep it and request of Varian Rel of course would be the board's call on that um Thanks Jen you're welcome okay um if we go back to pb21 that's a third page yeah so we see the roof plan um at the lower leftand corner the and we we show our propos well um we we show our proposed um HVAC units and I should just point out um that those will um without a doubt be less than 12% of the roof area it will it be 10% I'm sorry I'm sorry 10% it will it will not we will not require relief for the 10% yeah so you're really just asking for the height the C variance for the overall height of the building correct okay thank you um when we go to pb300 um this is the north building and it's it's really it's really a similar approach to the building design not only aesthetically on the outside but also internally how we organize it it's just the net rentable space is less than on the south building so I won't really I won't burden everyone with going through all these plans and even on pb301 um again we see the elevations are very very similar to the south building the roof plan has a similar approach where we're definitely going to be under the 10% uh with the HVAC units I just want to clarify that we showed one colored rendering of one building the other building is going to be the same yes it's just going to be dimensionally it's going to be a little shorter right okay that concludes the architectural testimony Mr chair thank you any questions good all right all open it up to the public this is just questions for the arch it's just you can come on up ma' but it's just questions for the architect at this time not yet not yet okay we'll get to you I promise okay ready for traffic we're ready I see who's here so we're definitely ready wonderful to see everybody again how you doing good good good yourself good you swear or affirm the testimony about to provide this boards the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please State and spell your name for the record Justin Taylor t y l r Justin you're we're seeking to qualify you as our traffic expert would you place your credentials on the record absolutely uh I hold a bachelor and Engineering from the University of Delaware I'm a licensed engineer in the state of New Jersey as well as Pennsylvania Delaware and Texas I'm also a certified professional traffic operations engineer by The Institute of Transportation Engineers practicing traffic engineering for almost 25 years now and testified hundreds of boards throughout the state of New Jersey including this board in the past thank you Justin thank you very much so my responsibility as part of the project was to work hand inand with the civil engineer to design a site that operates safely and efficiently um and also to research the surrounding roadway Network to ensure that there is sufficient capacity to accommodate the traffic uh that would be proposed by the uh office development that we are we are seeking as Ryan described it's it's a challenge here when we started to look at it on how we were going to access the site um given that one of the frontages is along the Route 9 195 ramp and the fhwa won't Grant you access there one of the frontages along Route n in the acceleration Lane for the slip ramp and the diesel Lane for the ramp uh NJ do will not Grant you access there and then the entire Southern portion of the site is encumbered by weapons and so there isn't the ability to push a driveway through there um it left us a very unique solution in uh investigating the utilization of that slip ramp um the first piece that we had to look at there was the amount of volume that's currently using it who's coming out of the residential development and making that right as a traffic engineer we always look at the peak hours right we look in the morning commuting and the evening commuting what we found was between eight and 10 vehicles in an hour that are making that right turn so initially our investigation said that's that's really not a lot of volume the impact to the traffic signal by now having them come down and make a right at the signal shouldn't impact the operation of the signal in order to further confirm that what we needed to do was to do the complete traffic study get the background traffic counts along Route nine at the intersection of Northwoods and nine utilize background growth rates utilize trip generation uh by the it to kind put together a model of what's out there now and what's uh what will be after we're done so to break that down a little bit we picked up traffic count data during the morning peak hour or 7: am to 9:00 amm um and the evening peak hour between 4:30 p.m. and and uh 6:30 p.m. based on that analysis we then boil that two-hour window down to the busiest hour to find out what the peak volume coming through the intersection would be right in the morning it runs from 7:30 to 8:30 and in the afternoon it's 4:45 to 5:45 right so that gives us a base model of what's out there at that intersection we then look to the Institute of Transportation engineers and their publication trip generation to determine what type of traffic The Office Buildings that's being proposed would generate obviously it's not there we need to figure out what new traffic that is going to bring to the surrounding roadway Network and build that into the model I will tell you a gener generates somewhere between 175 and 180 peak hour trips right we're an office building it's it's very directional most of the people are coming in in the morning to the office building so you got about 150 160 people that will be coming in in the morning and in the evening about the same you got about 145 going out because the people leave at a slightly different rate um but you're in that 150 to 160 in an hour we then take that volume and search charge it onto the intersection and run capacity analyses as prescribed by the fhwa in their publication the highway capacity manual and what we really requireed to do is take a look at a before and after what was it operating before what was it operating after and what then is our impact to to the intersection and what I will tell you is hard as is to believe the operation of the East and the westbound approaches are going to be almost identical to what they are today and the reason behind that is that the traffic signal on Route 9 is an actuated traffic signal what that means is there are detectors and the amount of traffic that is on the side street approach directly impacts the amount of green time that that side street approach gets so by Us loading the traffic onto there those side street approaches then call additional traffic it goes from about 9 seconds in the evening to about 20 seconds in the evening to accommodate the traffic that would be generated by the by the uh office building so when you look at the before and after what you see is that those side street approaches that are really being impacted by the the traffic are operating with B level of service because it can take that additional green time right we all know what route N9 is like I'm not going to sit here and tell you that there's not traffic on Route n what I will tell you is this use and this type of use specifically is actually working well because it's contraflow to what's going on out there today right during the evening peak hour trying to get South on nine is we'll say difficult to be nice about it right and it's really a function of Aldridge Road and the signal and people backing up from Aldridge however the traffic associated with this project everybody's leaving in the evening at same peak hour not to say that some people aren't going to go south but the vast majority of the employees here are heading north either to 195 or to points further north on Route 9 in direct opposite of what the the heavy volume that on rout 9 in the evening peak hour similarly in the morning as people are coming in you're coming south from 195 Into The Jug Handle and across and the uh primary flow of Route n at that point is Northbound so it actually works fairly well with the existing traffic patterns busy as it is out there um with what's going on today I would also say that that theory holds true to its proximity to the adjacent residential development the same thing thing people are leaving to go to work in the morning so they're all coming to the eastbound approach of that intersection whereas all of our traffic is now coming in they're they're using The Far Side Jug Handle to come across the intersection and vice versa when people are coming home and they're coming south on nine and they want to make The Jug Handle all of our traffic is coming out they're not using that because they're all leaving um to to go back to where they where they live so based on the analysis that we have it shows that the levels of service are uh comparable to what's out there today there is a little degradation to what's going on on Route 9 because as I said the green time on the side street has to come somewhere it comes from the green time on rout nine um and there's minor degradations that fall with well within the tolerance is What DOT has uh reviewed and and essentially approved but the side side street approaches are going to see the same type of operation and the same type of delays they that they see today um there was a question Mr chair about a traffic signal at the at the driveway Laura has it right it's it's way too close that being said it also really isn't necessary from an operational standpoint the traffic coming out of Northwood Place in the residential development while are people going to and from the work it's it's really rather low and the ability to turn left into the driveway across the volume that's coming down the road or people coming out in the evening onto Northwoods operate at Great levels of service just because of the the amount of volume that's on Northwoods place so just did you said it was an actuated all right so explain this to me m I'm I'm a geologist you're the expert right so dumb it down a little bit if I'm coming Southbound on on route nine and I take the Stanley Boulevard y right wrap around and go to go to my office building right the light will pick up and sense patterns of Hey Monday through Friday people are coming at this set hour we're going to extend that a a period of time of being green and then it knows it's the people are already at work and it'll go back to a shorter green time like how does that that's exactly how it almost exactly how it works okay the actuation gives it a minimum amount of green time right it's 7 Seconds screen time and then the detectors say oh there's still cars there let's extend it by two seconds let's extend it by two seconds like until it no longer senses that the vehicles are there so we don't even have to change a maximum so you don't you're not sitting on Route 9 with nobody on the side streets right the signal is determining how much volume is on either one of the approaches so in the busy morning hour when everybody's coming to work we found that it went from about 9 seconds to almost 20 seconds on the eastbound approach out of Stanley in the morning and the westbound approaches everybody's coming out in the afternoon okay but in the rest of the day it goes back to even potentially not getting called right if nobody's there route n stays green all right so in those I guess my question leads to in those Peak out hours of people entering and exiting from the site right giving more green time coming out of the side streets in the meantime route n is just that's no and the reason I say that in the evening this signal is not the bottleneck right no Bott understood it's not this signal right what will happen is you'll get a little bit more room to clear into as you approach down to Aldrich because the size called a little bit longer here right so those gaps um spread out the other thing I will say to you one of the very first things that Miss beam brought up to us when we started this was a request for me to go to Dot and talk to them these signals are supposed to be coordinated supp y they're supposed to be an intelligent transportation system Network that platoons them so that as you come down the corridor you hit green lights and then they all stop together it appears that it's not working and so we we have a do application in we have a first round of comments we're in the process of revising them and as part of that we will absolutely bring it to their attention that this is what we found right and if if it's something they can fix it's something they can they can hopefully fix to to ease some of the congestion along there um but as I said I don't think given the way this site and the use on this site the specific office use I don't think it's going to impact that flow um just because of where people are coming from and going to J yep I've listened to you over the last four years and I really enjoy you I don't take this the wrong way I'm sure you're going to all right you've gotten really good at the word salad the way you explain stuff all right first of all we don't know who's going to occupy the building yet we don't know who's going to be where they're coming from north or south east or west so you saying that every time I hear you over the last four years you don't know where the people are coming coming from leaving going south okay whatever so I just think that's funny that you always you always bring that kind of stuff up when is the last time the last updated traffic flow on Route n uh the last dot real study done what year my study or do study D study I couldn't tell that last time Do's done a a study of their own along the corridor I'm not sure you realize what that Corridor has become correct I do I mean so our traffic study right we started in 2022 we updated counts because this project has dragged longer than we thought it was going to I updated counts in early November of this year so the data and the numbers that I just quoted to you are all based on stuff from 2024 to take a step back to the distribution yes it's a projection however what we do for these projections we use census data for workplace of how Township right and so we look at where the people live that currently work in Hell Township and we utilize that at the surrounding roadway Network to get to this location so it is it is a projection right I absolutely don't know that all the employees that are in 20,000 square feet of that building are going to be on 195 but we can draw good projections given the other employees in how Township of where of where they're working so I I have a high degree of confidence that we know to and from where they're going within you know 10 to 15 % so I I have a couple questions um I think you mentioned 150 to 160 trips coming in and out of the the premises right yep um how does that equate to the the 421 parking spaces there say if both buildings are full you know with tenants I understand there's probably a factor of safety built in with extra spots but that's you know it's less than half of the number of spots that would be in there so how does that it's a really good question how does that account for it this chair doesn't like me um that becomes a function of the fact that not we look at one hour in and out right you have different businesses that start at different times you have flexible work schedules that we're starting to see and you have um the visitors that come in throughout the day and so the data that we get from the it takes a look at an office building of this size and then physically we count the the ins and outs and we submit that to The Institute of Transportation Engineers right and they correlate all that information but it's really a function of you don't have every single person coming in in one hour in the morning and leaving in the evening so is that regulated by the D standards on how you stagger that or do you because it seems like an aggressive assumption that you're stating every business that's in there is going to be staggered where there's going to be flexible uh work arrangements and some people are coming in at 7 some people are coming in eight some people are coming in nine does the dot regulate how you stagger that or is that just kind of a an experience like how do you how do you do that I just want to supplement that Justin when you do these counts the the heavy level of traffic is when all the employees arrive in the morning or leave at night during the rest of those parking spaces are for visitors that come periodically during the course of the day correct that's correct spaces are not all people showing up at 9:00 and leaving at 5 yes that's correct and the the data that we utilize both from it and the njd publishes their rates in from their Highway access permit system their hap system which is based on it data and those are the trip generation rates that we're required to use for uh for land uses along the state High Corridor and it's it's it's a function of experience and hard numbers that are collected and submitted to the it right um so yeah so I understand that it's an actuated signal and I understand what you're saying about the Gap with Aldrich it gives more time to create a gap there it would it be unorthodox Laura to ask for do you use open traffic how do you simulate it would we be able to see the model simulation because the open traffic model that that simulates these movements you can actually see like a screenshot of the cars backing up and the queue it it helps it would help us kind of wrap our head around exactly what the implications would be um to the north north to East Movement the South to East the South to W you know what I mean I mean yeah is that something they could provide is that is that typical just to show us how that that queue is building up because you know I mean I come home from Philly here trying to get off this ramp and everyone trying to get onto this ramp here to make a left or right it is impossible to weave in and out of here and you're just adding to that queue so if we were able to see a screenshot of that simulation model with all those traffic movements it would help us WRA her head around what the implications are so injecting all this additional traffic flow we utilize Synchro for our analysis purposes and the and the simulation arm of that is Sim traffic right so it is something that we we could provide okay what I want to go back to is the statement that you just made when you come home from Philly it's a nightmare trying to get down and get on the route n and we've into it at that point all of our traffic none of our traffic is using that same Jug Handle because the actuated signal coming across is still backing up the North South traffic on Route n well it which still it still adds to the complexity of getting off that ramp into route n South I yeah personally I don't think it does right I think the function of the volume and the backup is not this signal if this signal had more or less green time you still can't go anywhere because the backup is all coming from aldrid Road Justin the the backup over there you know if you want this week I I'll I'll drive you over there we'll hang out for a couple hours from Stewart's rupia yep okay listen I'm not trying to okay we live here I mean listen I live in Freehold I drive this this corter all the time on Route 9 southbound Yep this is why I have the issue with what you said they're going north or they're going to go east on 195 whatever right we live here that intersection Stewart's intersection yep alridge roads intersection uh uh Salem Hills intersection right guys we know the intersection that is just a bum bump bump bump bump all the way through I think the bigger concern will be leaving there going Southbound to the light because of the the the Young The Jug Handle people coming around to go back to McDonald's or back to Aldridge or or whatever okay I'm not saying listen I get you I get you so so can I hit a couple points in there then good what the things we looked at and one of the things that DT was concerned about was the Q lengths on the eastbound approach on North Woods not interfering with The Jug Handle so if you were coming north on nine and you wanted to take The Jug Handle and go back go um go down to McDonald's go down to the what's the the Mexican place on the corner yeah um you don't Taco Bell sorry in there not touching that one coming out of the ramp and people coming out of that so what we needed to do and what they were concerned about and what we proved to them is the cues because you have the two lanes on Northwoods place with the green time that's coming and the cycle length that's there right the 105 or 140 seconds in the evening it won't back up past The Jug Handle ramp right and that's a function just of the fact that there is enough green time already allocated to the side street for it to draw upon so it's not going to interfere with you if you're trying to make it you turn and go southbound again right you'll be able to clear and you'll clear every cycle and again I think what needs to be kept in mind is we we all understand this area and we understand that route n is busy congested and there's probably a regional roadway Improvement that needs to be done to alleviate this that's not the fault or the responsibility of this application no right understand and like I said if this right we're we're in a highway commercial zone right you could put a shopping center in here which would have a much different traffic pattern and be in my opinion more detrimental than the the very directional flow that you get in an office building and the orientation of where those employees in my projections are coming to and from but wouldn't it be easier to keep this slipway and just build your road right next to it so people can get onto the slipway if they want to go north or if they want to go south come to the light why can't you build a road keep that slipway and put a road right next to your own entrance um I will talk briefly and then we little outside my expertise but given the environmental constraints we are buted up against the wetlands and the buffers and the repairing Zone that needs to be uh we actually had to get special approval from D to widen that slip ramp to be the 30 feet that we needed so there's really no ability to push further into the environmentally sensitive areas otherwise it would we wouldn't have to go to NJ do if we could have done that and we could have accessed Northwood Place we wouldn't have had to go to do because we have no access on do at that point but it's the only way we could get to and from the site given the ramp given 195 and given the environmental constraints and as I said in the beginning when we looked at it if there had been 200 people making that right this probably wouldn't have worked right but the the amount of volume that's utilizing that slip ramp doesn't constitute needing a slip ramp so is there just conversations with do style that just purchased the slip ramp is there any other do input that's required for this so absolutely and so we I kind of breezed over that in the beginning right we we had our first preapp with them in 20 early 2022 we submitted an application for a major major access application to them in late 2022 that includes the traffic study that you guys have right full set of plans for the slip ramp and what we're proposing to do there and so that's fully under their review um they've given us a first round of comments there was no um no major red flags we have a bunch of technical comments that were working out with them but nothing that constituted them saying no to this um and I would note as was alluded to that the hotel that was approved ended up with an NJ do permit so do had looked at it once already we came back with saying hey we're doing the exact same thing so um minus the the minor comments that we need to clean up I don't Envision us having any issue getting a permit for it okay I I just have one follow-up question then obviously I'll turn it back over to you sure um the access driveway the point where the slip if slip ramp if you will hit uh meets the the existing roadway can you describe that and how that would operate it meaning that will operate safely efficiently will is there adequate capacity to get the cars from the slip ramp onto the road uh where intersects Northwood Place yes yes absolutely it operates with uh great uh great level level service a at that point that's again a function of the fact of the volume that's on Northwoods place but it's been designed for good sight lines it's been designed for the radi and the truck turning that we need to get into and from the site so it will it definitely operat safely and efficiently I'm sorry no no so uh so I I have a question because I'm not very familiar other than Mickey D's um do do you foresee any issues with folks coming out of the develop or out of the office complex looking at Route n saying oh I I can't sit here and making a right or I'm sorry a left on a Northwoods and then a right onto Woodland Drive and finagling their way yeah but it's landlock is it I don't know that area you can't get the alridge it doesn't it's all landlock so you just you loss back there and then you end up fur I don't think we have an issue signing it that says no left turn right I mean there may be an employee or two that if something happens but I don't think it's a great Point go back there and just dry around in a circle we we don't want we don't want to go in that direction because you can't get out so I think you know signing it for no left turn or striping I think it makes a lot of sense yeah I think that would have to be a stipulation to consider it yeah it was it wasn't something I was thinking about but absolutely your bigger issue at that U-turn you know coming into it like say tractor trailer Nick came around and wind himself up to go to South right right came around there isn't a huge difference huge gap from the light like it's maybe six or seven cars before there's a gas station right there left side before like you know how it's double leaned you know to go right or go left there's not a huge gap there for you know we have to discuss trailers saying it's that's where it can bottle neck up a little bit or people coming out of Northwoods you know coming out of their development they're hit that but again just just to focus this like we we can't we're not we're not trying to solve route n's problems here you know what I mean we're it's the Ingress egress of this project and to make them worse right so um just saying we all understand R distance is not just it's not a same with Stanley Boulevard right when you go around that urn and you're coming in but it's left or right there's not a huge distance right for them to to Mo like when you come off5 yeah you know to get on nine that's all we have on all right guys anything Jen Laura I don't have anything okay so Mr chair I just want to make sure just as a followup to some of the questions that that were asked was was the board requesting that the applicant returns sort of to run their model sort of in a visual um yeah I want to see if they can provide some supplement figures even just screenshots showing the que um because it's a very powerful tool I mean I I'm I am an engineer and we design interchanges for highways and to see the actual queue looking at all the different movements it's a very it helps us understand when you say it's it's negligible impact or it's a minor impact those are very subjective terms but when we could see you know the line of traffic extends by 100 feet or 100 yards or 500 yards or it stays the same and it's a wash because of the Gap all it would help us kind of wrap ours heads around the actual impacts so if it you know I we absolutely can provide that I can tell you it's one of the things I I brought with me was the just the numbers right so if we're talking about the cues on these Eastbound and Westbound approaches right because the que on Route n is que on Route n and it extends all the way up to Stewarts right I mean like it's but if we're talking about the q's on the eastband and Westbound approaches in the morning uh you have an average queue of 25 feet right so about a car in either Lane uh when we when we're done it'll go to 63 feet right so that's the addition of about two cars per cycle length in the evening it goes from 28 feet to 35 feet on the eastbound approach that's coming into the site right on Stanley if we're looking at the westbound approach it goes in the morning from 20 to 31 and in the PM understandably it goes from 46 to 123 feet okay now 123 feet is about where The Jug Handle ramp comes out of uh onto Northwoods place so what we found was like I said that was what the dot was concerned and one of the concerns we had so those are the East West cues what are the north south rout n Q's the the ls of I mean honestly it's probably almost incalculable in the southbound but I can I can give you those numbers let's see no build you go yeah right I mean it's giving me about 150 feet which obviously coming southbound is not it's not correct right I mean it's it's a function of the amount of volume that can get through as opposed to the que that's back qu mile um yeah we 350 but relatively impact a [Music] goes from 350 to 548 so about 200 ft increase with the essentially the tra it's the reduction in green time because we're not really adding traffic to the southbound approach in the evening um so you're at about 200 feet I don't know if that answers no I mean that's that's what the visual aid would have accomplished is really to see the cues so it's essentially like a 75 80% increase in the north south we want to give the board whatever you need to make an intelligent decision we no I I appreciate the explanation so whatever you you'll have to let us know if you need more information um our position is the test really is does our driveway operate safely officially route nine officially route nine is what it is we can't as indicated we can't fix route n does that fall under a negative impact though from a planning perspective or am I reaching here well it have to be associated with a variance okay if it's not associated with a variance then you're not looking at that but you are looking at what we've said before which is the safety of the Ingress and egress gotcha all right so anything else we have a planner for I mean for traffic Justin you want to open yeah I I'll open it up to the public now uh ma'am do you have anything for just questions at this time for you can come on up you have to come to the mic yeah uh it's not it's just questions for Justin here regarding traffic okay ma' when you get up if you could just uh State and spell your name and give us your address uh Diane Workman 75 Crest Drive how Township and can you just spell your last name for us excuse me just spell your last name w o r k m an okay thank you Diane and uh I know I've been in development for over 53 years when it was first built they closed off a lot of the entrances and exits to the development because of the traffic on route nine and I I sort of Wonder as the develop as the tra will they cut off another de another entrance or exit to the development because this I don't know you know what you know what she's talking about you know where the eye dockor is where the eye do yes behind yeah that's that one and the one on uh where you have the winding thing to go on to I95 well that's it that's what they're talking about that's the those are the only two ways out of our development we have like they're not cutting off the access they're cutting off the ramp but you could still go to the light and make a right but you're going to have a lot more traffic I'm not saying that but the first question was are they cutting off any more access points well maybe if they have to Warden the roads for the traffic they might have to that's what happened on orridge road the roads when I was there it was only one lane and one lane why don't you ask you should ask Mr Taylor ask Mr Taylor as the years went on and they had widen the roads for the traffic they cut off our develop our exit to get out of the development because they couldn't they they there was no way of of people going out so I would say that we have no proposed modifications to the Northwoods approach other than the slip ramp and turning that into the driveway I would also further say that given the environmental constraints and the residential development there's no other development that's going on in this location that's going to impact that that approach but it's already impacted now so if we have extra people coming in you're really not going to be able to get out of the development I would say based on the analysis that we did and trip generation associated with the proposed development and the allocation of green time that I was mentioning with the actuated signal I don't think that it's going to impact that approach I really don't I think you're you're gonna find you're waiting the same amount of time to get out as you do today I don't know I hope you're right but I don't know about that and I know the the other develop the other way out where you hit route nine and you can only go south on on Route you know North on route nine that's going to get really jammed up because people are going to try to go out that way if if uh going around that ramp is hard to get Mr chairman this is sort of getting into testimony yeah yeah this is just for questions well you could certainly do this later but this is just for questions for the engineer but yeah okay thank you very much hello hello how are you good um could you just State your your name my name is Jason Storch s t o rch I'm at 77 Crest Drive in how thank you um I had some question about the data like how you collected the data you said peak hours did you you said and the study was from 2024 yep the most recent data that we collected is from 2024 do you have like a date range that you collected that data like sure um we counted the second time we counted uh back in 2022 as I mentioned but we wanted to make sure that things have been updated and weren't dealing with Co impact the most recent date that we collected was uh o November 13 2024 yeah the reason I'm asking is it might not be a a particular busy time of the year such as like in the summertime I know we get a lot more traffic in that area and it does back up and you know so that you know I'm skeptical when you say 180 cars out of the 400 you know coming in and it not backing up because we already experienced that in the summer and have you prop have you done any simulations in the summertime specifically how the traffic will be further backed up so so we did not count in the summertime we counted like I said it's most recent in November and I think the ones in 2022 were probably mid oh you know do I have it it might have been January give me a sec but what I would say is the volume that we're talking about the volume coming out of Northwoods right out of out of the residential development there doesn't vary much seasonally right people are still people are still going to work at the same time they're still going and the summer traffic that you see in this area predominantly happens to be an increase on the weekends right or on a Friday evening um you have a little bit more people go to the restaurants up and down you know on on a week day but predominantly during those Peak commuting hours we don't see that much variation in this section of rout n so I don't see it changing the um the output of the side street operation that we came up with right rout n might be a little bit busier but the you're not basing that on data I'm basing that my opinion that the volumes coming to and from the residential development and our side of Route n don't vary much because of the seasonal nature of it you're not basing that on data though I'm basing that on my professional opinion and because I don't have data either on this summer but I just have my experience and that you know that's why I was wondering if you did collect data in the summer to see because we are seeing a an increase in volume of cars during that time Y and it does back up and you're telling us that there's going to be an increase so which which building but it's not going to back up which what are you talking about back up when the like bottleneck on Northwoods on Route n route n well that's correct yeah right and I mean route n is the elephant in the room it is what it is what it is right the additional traffic that we're talking about coming to and from the site isn't really going to be noticeable in that route n traffic flow right because it's going to be part of the the existing cubes that are out there right and again it comes down to the fact that this Corridor probably needs to be looked at from a DOT standpoint as a Regional Corridor and figure out my opinion just from driving and living in the area is ald road is what's bottlenecking that whole thing once you get through there you get down the friendship it starts to open up right until you get down into L that might be the cause of the problem but it seems to me adding 200 Cars a day is going to make it worse Mr chair if I could there's just a couple of things I want to note maybe for the public and maybe for the the board to kind of ponder sure what I heard is that this is a Monday through Friday operation from 9: to 5: that's what I heard correct as the hours of operation other permitted uses that that could go here include Health Care Facilities medical centers hospitals restaurants without drive-thru restaurants with drive-thru takeout entertainment uses retail sales Retail Services Home Improvement centers adult dayc carees indoor Recreation micro Brewery schools um and so I I just you know I I understand with the with the board and with the comments we're hearing but as was kind of indicated our focus on this is on the access and whether or not access to the site functions safely um not necessarily the traffic on Route 9 unfortunately that's out of our jurisdiction I think if you all could petition for things to be different on Route 9 you would you live it we I mean we all drive this every day my office is just down the road um one thing I would say that I didn't hear that I do think creates a safer condition is I don't know that it's safe right now to have that Northwood slip ramp also become the slip ramp from Route 9 to get on to 195 um you know it functions as one Loop but certainly traffic that's coming down Route 9 would be merging over so I I did just want to note that but I did just also want to kind of walk the board through we understand I I understand the traffic and I think we have to be sure that we know that the access Drive functions safely and appropriately but I also think hearing the testimony if this is a Monday through Friday 9 to5 operation I I think that the board you know if I were to make a recommendation that would be how if you were to approve this this is how you approve it you limit the hours of operation to that so that there's not weakend Peak yes you're going to have the am Peak and the PM Peak but if this was a strip mall I think we'd have substantial impact if this was a medical center I think we'd have substantial impact so I think when you're weighing these uses and remember it's a permitted use use in the zone so I did just kind of want to take the board back to that listen we all acknowledge that there's a problem uh I'd also say you know Mr Taylor indicated he's going to talk to the dot we need to petition the do to look at the signalization of these lights that's a big issue out there um and that would be something I would also recommend that the board consider but I just want to take us back to really what our scope or Focus needs to be Mr Taylor also just a followup one of the questions about the you know when the when the traffic counts were taken um there was a question as to whether it was done in you know any of the counts over the period of time was done in the summertime or performed in the summertime were were there any counts in the summertime no there were not okay um aside from the count you're talking about in November what were the I think you referenced that there were some other counts along the way we had done counts initially when we started the project back in 2022 just give me one second and I'll tell you 2022 was like postco when people were just getting back to work slowly and that's why he updated them to make sure to November I will tell you okay we did them in January of 2022 and then went through a covid adjustment factor that dot had prescribed when we did it but it's one of the reasons I wanted to get new data um because obviously you know we it was projections at that point want to get something as current as we could coming to see you guys so the the question also I mean it's not like you know a particular holiday like Christmas or or something like that it was a question about a season um is is do you find as a professional uh traffic engineer that there are seasonal differences in the traffic uh that would encumber that area um I think during the commuting hours the variations from November to say the middle of the summer aren't going to be enough to impact the operation of the driveway or of the two side street approaches that we that we really concerned about getting people to and from the site so when you say they wouldn't be enough what what would be the variation or what would you estimate the variation to be probably 10 to 15% potentially on the side streets it's probably less than that because again the people that are coming out of the residential development are going to work in the morning and coming home in the evening whether it's summertime or or wintertime so those are the those are the vehicles that we're turning against to get to and from the site so I don't really see much of a seasonal variation and then just to follow up on Laura's point if this is a use that's going to be operating between 9 and 5 Monday through Friday do you find that even in the summertime that those would be the hours where you would experience the the heavy traffic in that in that area or would it be you know more weekend and you know maybe Friday later that's that's exactly it I would say that the weekends are much more uh see a much greater increase of seasonal variation and then Friday evening correct so no I don't see the rest of the day when the normal operation of an office building is is going to see as much seasonal variation and Mr Alfieri I don't know what the ordinance provides but being that your traffic testimony seems to be based based of on a very particular use operating between very particular hours would the applicant take that as a condition if there were to be an approval I I haven't talked to him so la did suggest that but I haven't turned around to speak to him yet okay and the other thing I would note Mr chairman is at least school is in session November 13th so sometimes when we take seasonal counts in the summer and you know I work for varing municipalities I don't see a ton of shore traffic necessarily through howl um as I do in other areas where it is kind of critical to take a summer count uh what I find this board finds most critical is was school in session or was school not in session um as well as um Ron indicated it didn't conflict with any holidays but but Justin like the counts what you you saying 9 you know 9 in the what you say 7:30 to 9:3 so we we look at a a two-hour window in the morning and the two-hour two hour but you also got to understand too because that development is landlocked when the buses enter that development in the morning you we have we have the middle or Elementary's Middle High School So High School's First middle second Elementary third plus whatever else you got different times of buses coming out of that place out of the out of the Caroling and all that not Carol R all that wood is that interesting yes you know okay so of course the morning like that's what I'm saying I don't agree with your times I think it needs to be a little earlier it is what it is so so how what are the PE did you do manual counts or did you have counters I had I had manual counts I had people boot people out there right yes so you're when you're looking when you're saying things like peak hour you're not talking about the peak hour of this particular use you're looking at the peak hour on the road right that's correct and what was the am Peak so the am Peak was from 7:30 to 8:30 right so we counted 7 to n the highest hour within that 2-hour window was 7:30 to 8:30 and what's the PM Peak 4:45 to 5:45 so when you did the counts from 700 to 9: in the morning which is really more the school stuff right I would not say the PMP coincides with School dismissal right they're they're out before right so when you did the counts in the you accounted for bus absolutely traffic and so um what we do is we separate larger Vehicles right we count Passenger cars as one type of classification school buses and box trucks as another and then tractor trailers is a third because each one of them have different turning characteristics and all that gets boiled into the model when we build it because it you know it takes a little longer for a tractor trailer to accelerate he takes a little bit longer time to get through the intersection so the school buses that go into the neighborhood are accounted for in that analysis Jen I think the the bigger issue for the residents that came up here obviously that they're going to exit out on I agree they're they're worried they're going to get backed up they going to get backed up all the way to your R sck well what will happen is is that because there's going to be this backup on Northwoods they're going to use that other access to Route n to get out of the development what is it only it's only Northbound anyway well that I know but I'm just saying I mean they could in theory use this Jug Handle and get back in the traffic but I understand her concern it's more of the U-turn like the chairman said it's really more of the two u-turns which we have no control over it's just that's where all the that's where all the suggestions going to come from did you do an analysis A stacking analysis at that intersection at the P at the AM and PM Peak yes that those are the cues that I quoted we w we looked at what was stocking there and then I went back out actually this morning and last night um to again verify the numbers that was getting directly from my counters and I didn't see any more than two or three cars on either one of the approaches during either one of those peak hours right and so what that means is there's plenty of room for the cars that we would be search charging on the intersection so Mr Le I think to your point for that particular issue with respect to the residents being able to like exit the neighborhood it's really more the PM Peak that you're concerned about because that's when the cars are leaving oh get right I mean because the A and Peak they're the theoretically already there they're going opposite the opposite yeah like I'm not worried the morning is really not my concern because you know people leave for work at different times right these people are going to be coming in you know from whatever Direction You Justus okay different times 9 10 11 whatever you know it's the it's the PM it's that The Dumping of everyone out at at like well I I know because my office closes at 4:30 and at 4:30 and 5 Seconds the parking lot's empty that place is crazy you know that that intersection with Stanley Boulevard and that it's just it's coming off 195 from the west and you know if you're coming down headed to T Tom you know so we're just trying to you understand I do absolutely Justin after covid um did did any of the the calculations I guess was there a change or or or anything as far as like flexible work schedule was that factored into any of your calculations of how the office Dynamic has changed ched over time it's a great question the answer to that is yes the 11th edition of trip generation now you know what before I quote that to you I believe the 11th edition of trip generation takes into account additional data that was collected um I know the 12th edition is do out gosh any month now from it which will then further reinforce that that characteristic um but I'm not 100% sure the 11th Edition which is what we're currently using now and to further that I would tell you it probably does not because the NJ do is behind everything and trying to update their data uh to so I would actually probably tell you that it's not inclusive in those that trip generation so there is the potential that the numbers I have are even a little um conservative yeah it's kind of an oddball question when you're looking to develop office space then talking about flexible work schedule and not being in the office so what we found is that it is it is like you know as we're counting other locations you know and it hasn't may be processed all the way into to the it is that you do see a little bit of reduction in but you also see people with flexible work spaces right so maybe you don't have you you don't take 20,000 you only take 15,000 because you have multiple people on different days using the same workstation y um so there was a drastic drop in that very postco and more and more things are trending now to getting rid of the work the flexible work M okay but chairman as as far as what Laura said okay and the residents that are here if you're going to pick the Lesser evil yeah to build here you know with the permitted uses that could go there so take that into consideration living there okay I live off a sale of mil that this is the less the Lesser evil that could go there for you guys if was a school any you know you know a lot of tractor coming in out all day that would really acate the hell out of everybody back there so this is and I appreciate Lord bringing that up you know as far as us board members you know what I mean if something was going to go up on Salem hill where I live this is something that rather have this a strip mall or Home Dep another Home Depot hital a hospital or you know whatever I'm just I just you know 2 Val well Mr chair yeah yeah you can't but we can't there's going to be a public portion we have to wait for the public portion CH you wanted to respond to Laura's question about the hours of operation um we're not willing to say we're this place will only operate from 9 to 5 Monday through Friday because some PL my office I have people working till 7 o'clock at night I not going to throw everybody out at five your Associates may want to move to this office you're right maybe with a pay reduction but on top of that if if someone's working at 8:00 the traffic is far different it's not like everybody showing up at 8:00 pm the 9 to5 is the primary that's why we use those peak hours that's where the primary traffic is the rest of the time is far less traffic farless activity excuse me if a doctor want if a if a lawyer's office wants to open on a Saturday morning to do a closing it's not like all 400 bases are filled with lawyers doing closing so we talking about peak hours those are the peak hours that we focused on so Mr alfy when you're talking office and I know there was uh testimony from your architect that this is Class A office and I know this is kind of a securest way to get to you Justin but I am getting to you is that are you stipulating that this is going to be professional office only or could the potential be medical office because that changes the dynamic of what we're talking about we haven't we've analyzed all of our data is based on professional office so profession office office that's correct corre so not MediCal and then and just again to focus the board and and the planner will get up and reinforce this under the D Dunkin Donuts case because we're permitted uses you're really supposed to focus on our driveway to get the people onto the road safely once they get onto the road we have no control over it you have you and I know you've heard this a thousand times but that's and I understand the concerns but that's really what our our our our goal is and Our obligation is is to get them onto the road period Prof what's professional office like a like Laura's office my office um but do we in our ordinance right but in our Ordinance do we have a a we we distinguish between professional office and medical office there's even two different parking requirements for both okay it could be an insurance agent it could be any any type of business other than medical which has a higher parking much higher parking demand for medical because there's more in and out okay hey Justin I know this is kind of off the topic a little bit can you tell me the distance from the intersection to the driveway it is approximately 200 ft so how many cars average size cars would fit could stack before it blocked the driveway you probably have 16 cars with the two lanes you know we we I'm just I'm just saying vert like that's that's eight cars right you know I mean your average car is about 16 ft and people leave a little bit of room usually typically use between 20 25 in a module so you're you know you're probably about eight cars maybe 10 cars thank you anything else one last wait this yeah so I think we're gonna take a fem minute break okay all right's one more question the planning board will now reconvene Mr chair during the break a member of the public um had asked if there was the ability to come up and ask Justin a question before we moved on to another witness sure now's the time would you like to come up yes yeah come on up good evening good evening could you just state your name and address please y it's Brian Cullen c l l n79 Crest Drive thanks Brian um my question is when I come out of the development from Northwoods want to make them right you have that I guess it's like a teardrop Circle there it's got a corner that's correct trying to make a right hand turn yep like I I actually argued this when they built down in front of Candlewood was the same deal coming out of there trying to make a rightand turn wasn't really built to do that that's a great question and then you also have the straight trucks or the school buses coming out of there which is even worse they got to go across at least what two lanes to make a right hand turn so what needs to be kept in mind it's something that the do had a concern of it's something we looked at we ran turn templates to ensure that it would work in this location because you have the the teardrop The Far Side Jug Handle you're not turning into the Lane right on the curb right you're turning into a lane that's 12 to 15 feet further into route n and so both the passenger vehicles can do it the school buses can do it and the and the single unit trucks can do it it's something because if if they couldn't dot was going to make us widen that radius and they they determined that it was not necessary explain that to me again when you're making the right hand turn I'm not really coming into what Lane so I guess this is part of the Y um so if you're turn as you turn right you're not turning into the curve Side Lane you have the lane that feeds The Jug okay so you're 15 you're turning to the right lane on it's still tight you can see even now you look at the curve now it's completely bashed apart because people make that right hand turn it's a little tight still and with school lessons too that's a little too tight just a thought thank you yeah all right s thanks Justin yep [Applause] Christine Christine welcome back hi you swear or affirm the testimony about to provide this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth yes please State and spell your name for the record hi good evening for the record Christine cfone c f o NE e business address is 52 Reckless Place Red Bank New Jersey 07701 testifying as a licensed professional planner thank you and um you credentials are okay good all right Christine um so you've heard a lot of testimony tonight so I don't want to belabor the point that this is an as of R use right uh Miss Newman went and read through um the permitted uses and she stopped at schools and there's even more than that in addition to the list that she read There are craft distilleries assisted living facilities self storage facilities and then conditionally house of worship is allowed Auto Sales Auto Services auto auctions car washes telecommunications so this is what I would consider a permissive commercial District right and then the stated purpose at section 18877 of the HD1 zone is to provide for Highway oriented development in the route N9 Corridor on Lots larger than permitted in the HC zone so when you look up at the screen you see you know and you heard testimony from Ryan our site engineer that this is a large site but substantial portions of it are constrained specifically the Eastern portion of the site is encumbered by Wetlands flood Hazard areas and um for that reason it renders that portion of the site undevelopable so as I told you in my credentials in the earlier application I teach Planning and Zoning courses so if I were trying to use a tech book C1 site I would pick this I would use this as a great demonstration as to features on a PR of property that are constraining and restricting the development so that is forcing the development to the South and Western portion of the site because that's where the site is not constrained and that is why we were seeking the relief along the southern portion for the retaining walls for the buffers and to have the parking in that area so I think that that that portion of the relief anyway is at least justifiable under the C1 section of the statute in addition to that relief we are seeking relief for 49.1 is our architect told you where the HD1 restricts to 45 ft as he said our buildings are going to be treated on all four sides and I wrote down the fact that Jennifer used the word I believe it was fantastic for the architecture so I do find that to be a bit of a holiday Miracle it doesn't happen often so I think that I need to regurgitate that testimony here you heard it I heard it so and but really the important point is here you know we're asking you for a little additional height on the on the structures but they are attractive structures our team took you know pretty good care to go through and make sure they retreated on all four sides I know this board has had applications come before you where you have requested that and I think that the board can look at that together with the fact that building a is set back almost 190 ft from the edge of pavement and then Building B is sort of tucked back there um in a less visible location so for those reasons I think the board could look at the C2 section of the statute advancing criteria I a desirable visual environment and that certainly that there is criteria G sufficient space in an appropriate location for the grant of that relief so um I I think that this is a substantially conforming application with the HD1 in the master plan it is is encouraged specifically under the comprehensive objectives to encourage the Redevelopment or revitalization of vacant or underutilized properties right so this is a vacant lot on on the route n Highway Corridor and a list of extensive permitted uses are permissible here so I do think that the variance relief is reasonable with respect to the context of the site I think um oh I should also talk about the sin height that to me is a clear C2 um I think the sh height if you give us the relief to um to exceed the the the mountain the height of it that is permissible to be um placed at I think it fits better with the building so if the board is so inclined I think that that section of the the relief would fall under the C2 again being a better zoning alternative advancing criteria I um going back to the fact that this is a permitted use in the zone and you've heard you know us and other applicants I'm sure r on the Dunkin Donuts case because we can't be asking applicants for as of right uses to solve the problems of the existing uh Traffic Systems we have to get our our our traffic on our site safely and efficiently and we certainly do that so I think um when you look at the structure of the of the ordinance this is an as of rate use here so I see no reason to to restrict the hours of operation um for this use and I think that we certainly meet our statutory burden of proof with respect to the positive and negative criteria and the negative criteria can be granted with no substantial detriment all we have a planning okay thank you any questions Jennifer Laura um I I don't take exception to the testimony I think the other thing that's important to note is that I agree there environmental issues on the site which push pushed the development to the to the northern portion of the site it's important to also note that5 is significantly elevated as one of the boundaries of this property so yes they are asking for a c variance for height you know and there are different degrees of height variance if you're more than 10 feet or 10% they would be at the zoning board they're below that threshold so they're able to get a SE variance for the height but they're up against an elevated State high like interstate highway so if this was somewhere else I might have a different opinion on the relief especially requested for the height but given the fact that it's as far away from the neighborhood and tucked against the 195 elevated highway I don't have a problem with the um with the relief requested I do also agree that the buffer relief that they asked for which I typically you know I'm I'm a staunch advocate of the buffers but here it's really the retaining wall and the road most of which is already there um but it's really given the unique constraints and it's on the route N9 Frontage and I can tell you that we have been working internally to look at perhaps the appropriateness of maintaining that buffer across route nine which is like 100 and some odd feet wide um so in that regard I wouldn't take any exception and I already talked to you guys about the sign height that I think how it fits on the building as long as the size of the sign is compliant which I think they testify to it would be I don't take exception to the increase in the mounting height thank you Laura anything uh Mr chairman I have nothing additional at this time they've adequately addressed my report and indicated they would comply with all technical comments okay thank you okay at this time I'll open it up to the public for any questions of the planner I think there's only three seeing none close the public portion oh Joe go ahead uh so I see on the map that you supplied the flood Hazard area line red goes straight across your driveway is that a low Point we'd have to bring the engineer up he can Ryan I'll tap Ryan in thank you yeah Ryan mcdermit MCD R mot t uh civil engineering consultant on behalf of the applicant so uh I believe the question was about the flood Hazard area on the particularly southwesterly portion of the parcel you're correct it does run under that ramp so the stream feature the pl book tributary uh you can almost see it on this page there's it's piped under that ramp so yes that is a low portion of the site so let's just say you have 400 spaces a few hundred of them are filled and you get torrential downpours is that going to affect the drive in or out through no no and the reason I say no is because we worked extensively with the D to get our individual permit for just that reason so the D specifically reviewed our storm water management design okay good yeah anything else and you're confident as far as the the know what's it called tributaries yes that water will stay cuz your you know the building is off of it this is not going to push any of this water if it was the you know high water table out onto Northwoods place out there that's correct yeah that's the primary reason why our development is pushed to the North End of the site okay good thank you all right so that concludes our presentation I request that you open up to the public for comment yeah if there's any comment before we do that Mr chairman um just in terms of the discussion on the traffic earlier I mean is there a a request that the applicant return with um you know more detailed visual presentation of the uh of of the traffic counts or is the board satisfied with what it's heard tonight no we're satisfied he his explanation with the Q lengths and the stack that was essentially what that would have done okay yep all right go ahead sure okay well Yep this is for every come on up again okay this time this time when you get up because you're testifying I'm going to have to swear you in so we'll just have to start with that so if you can raise your right hand ma'am do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to provide this board is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes if you could just state your name and address again Diane Workman 75 Crest Drive how Township okay go ahead ma'am uh on the wet as far as the wetlands go my property is like I have 17 Acres of woods in back of my property and the wetlands are really wet right now we're in a drought so everything is pretty it's okay it's muddy but it's okay but when we have rain that water really comes up I mean you can step in real puzzles of water will for sure it won't get worse I don't want to have my house flooded out yeah so with respect to the the wetlands you're talking about any negative impacts would be associated with the storm water management design and we go through a very very strict set of regulations both on the local and state level where we need regulated approvals um so in working with Laura's office we would make sure that we provide a compliant stormw design from uh from a local ordinance perspective um but we've already received approval from the DP specifically with respect to our disturbances to the wetlands and the flood Hazard area if we were to have any severe flooding after this is done what what can we do call the township engineering department okay Ryan you're your your property Dow gradient correct of of Crest Drive it is yes so it would be goes toward your n away from her property correct okay so all right it all goes towards the streams on our site as well okay all right good thank you gentlemen do you have anything no okay close the public portion s any closing yeah very briefly sure we this isn't obviously a severely constrained site there's only one possible access point to the site for it to be developed in any way um as you heard testimony from from the our planner and from your engineer this is probably the best use for this location um with a multiple of other far more intense uses uh um we our test under duck of donuts is to the access point of our site whether it operates safely efficiently our testimony was clear that it does we understand the route n testimony which was the primary focus of the board's questions and the Traffic Engineers comments we still think even though it's really not relevant to the application we think he adequately addressed those comments um and we' also agreed to address all the technical comments contained within the board professional reports your fire officials report and we request that the board Grant the approval as requested and where where do we stand uh on sidewalks we agreed to provide the sidewalks on route nine okay and the other thing I guess we we need your input on someone suggested the no left turn sign leave we' agree to that if that's what you want okay okay thank you all right gentlemen at this time I will entertain a motion I'll make motion for approval all right Mr Cristiano has made a motion to approve this application do I have a second I will second V Mr Cristiano yes Mr leio yes Mr Mercer yes Mr Rebel yes Mr Carbonic yes and chairman hust yes thank you everyone have a great holiday thank you too s Jennifer any Master Plan update nothing for today but the board should be aware that we're gearing up for the next round of affordable housing which is really starting in January which will ultimately result in a housing element and fair share plan of our master plan probably around June of next year so just to put you guys on notice that you know we've we've gotten our number we're starting to look at things but ultimately we have to have the housing element fair share plan done by June 30th so so that'll be the focus 2025 yeah so that's kind of where we're headed got it thank you you're welcome uh Ron is there any reason to go into executive session uh no Mr chairman okay thank you I'll entertain a motion to adjourn what about master age yeah yeah yeah okay good all right thank you very much