##VIDEO ID:fr56NN3pvzM## e e has been provided provided in the M with the roll call councilwoman Fischer here here councilman gajer yes Council odonnell here Deputy Mayor Nell here mayor burger here thank you Mr Clark is there any reason to go into executive session yes mayor we have to talk about land acquisition thank you may I have a motion to go into exec a motion to go into executive session second please second thank you councilwoman fiser yes councilman gaser yes councilwoman O'Donnell yes Deputy Mayor Nell yes mayor burer yes thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e okay good evening everyone I would like to open this meeting October 15 2024 the how Township Council reg regular meeting you need to unlock your iPhone first um roll call please may I have a motion to reconvene the meeting motion motion I'm sorry motion to reconvene second councilman Fisher yes councilman gazer yes councilman odonnell yes Deputy Mayor nidel yes mayor burer yes ma'am thank you may have roll call councilman fiser here councilman gager here councilman odonnell here Deputy Mayor Rell mayor Burger presid thank you at this time I would like to stand to say the Pledge of Allegiance please remember there is so much going on in the United States and in the world anybody who has been fallen for wrongdoing we should pray for their souls and hope that some semblance starts with the whole world to make a change I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you and to all of our Local Heroes thank you all for what you do for this town at this time we have a proclamation um October is Substance Abuse Prevention month it'll be read by Gina ribbon the Howell Township Public School District Student Assistance anti-bullying coordinator and Howell Alliance chairperson Matt you wrote that yes please Gina is a partner of mine I'm Chris D riddle the high Alliance coordinator and I think sometimes I'm always to face the alliance and probably everybody gets maybe sick of hearing me I don't know so I figured i' collaborate with Gina constantly with her work in the prek to8 school district um which is just tireless on her behalf we have worked together for probably 12 years um 13 years and um so I figured I wanted her to um introduce herself maybe just share a couple of her um you know uh Red Ribbon Week and uh Spirit Week events that you have for prevention and then just to quickly read the proclamation good evening um across our district we last week recognize respect week um next week is school violence awareness week and Red Ribbon Week so throughout the district we have different spirit days to bring awareness last week we wore blue for bullying prevention month um and next week we have different types of spirit days depending on each building um to recognize our school violence awareness into Red Ribbon I do know in both middle schools will be wearing red um in honor of Red Ribbon Week clamation Tonight October is substance abuse and prevention and bullying prevention month 2024 whereas any form of substance use including nicotine marijuana alcohol illicit drugs synthetic drugs and prescription medications can permanently impact brain development which occurs until at least the age of 25 and whereas parents Remain the first line of defense against youth substance use and whereas youth substance use increases the lifetime to risk lifetime risk of substance use and mental health disorders poor physical health lowered career and financial achievement and negative social consequences and whereas Red Ribbon Week is observed in schools and communities Nationwide October 23rd to the 31st each year to encourage substance use prevention and healthy decision making and where as students who experience bullying or at an increased risk for depression anxiety self-esteem issues illness lower academic achievement and troubled relationships and whereas the Howell Alliance Howell Township Public Schools and Howell High School remain committed to providing substance use prevention and bullying prevention education awareness and programs to Foster well-being and health now Teresa Burger mayor of the township of Howell on behalf of the governing body do hereby Proclaim October 2024 as National substance abuse and bullying prevention month in Howell Township and commend its observance to all citizens thank you thank you thank you very much thank you for the hard work and the dedication that you've provided to our students and our adults but thank you both very much for the work that you're doing I appreciate it thank you at this time I would like an acceptance of the minutes from October 1 2024 may I have a motion motion to accept second second thank you councilman Fischer yes councilman gager yes councilman Odon yes Deputy Mayor Nell yes mayor Burger uh I'm abstaining I was not at the uh meeting thank you um at this time do we have any reports from the officials at the Das of just a few quick remarks mayor um first we have Fall Fest this weekend October 19th starts at 11:00 a.m. at Oakland Park uh we are combining it with the um the former Farmingdale car show so we're going to have a lot of vintage cars out there we have band um food trucks all the good stuff so highly recommend that everybody come out tonight if you haven't already and you're interested in signing up for the Halloween decorating contest deadline's tonight so you got to do that um ball and basketball courts are underway at Oakland uh so we are racing against the winter clock to make sure that we can get them painted if not they'll be painted in the spring but the construction is nearly complete Virginia Drive uh new basketball court was just put in hockey nets down at Deerwood Park will be installed shortly and there's a new gazebo at plumstead Park so that is ready to go check my other list and Soldier Memorial rain Garden was installed this week and so shade tree and leasa out another great job thank you Ju Just one quick update we've actually gotten some complaints today over some uh activity at Adelphia Farms this is the Farm property across the street from Memorial and Adelphia school on Route 524 um it's Township owned we have a leie that uh leases out the property to farm um this was part of a develop U mommoth Chase development that we took over farmfield so instead of um leaving it be we've given it to Lessie to to farm some of that farming activity just started this week um I think it involves the spreading of some manure getting some complaints about um odors uh smells obviously um this is something the Township's aware of it is covered under the township Right to Farm ordinance this activity specifically is part of your common farming practices that the right to farm ordinance does cover um so uh we're working with the owner of the neighbors we're working with the farmer just to make sure that we can minimize impacts um but this is something that um is ongoing and just should be short-term relatively um I think the lesie is getting ready for spring use for farming so just want to give everyone that update nothing else thank you K nothing for me Diane uh yes I just want to announce that early voting is scheduled from October 26 to November 3rd at St Veronica's gym uh Monday through Saturday 10:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. and Sunday 10:00 a.m. to 6 p.m. thank you thank you at this time I'd like to open the portion of the meeting for hearing of citizens each person shall give their name and address to the clerk the council should be addressed as a collective body and not as individual members each person shall have one turn to address the council and comment shall not exceed a total of five minutes speakers shall be notified when their time has run and no time extension shall be permitted um the only person that I have on the list right now is um Miss Taylor and mayor after Miss Taylor Miss uh Kristen daughter had come up she wanted to sign so after Miss Taylor I asked for Miss Kristen daughter daughter Kristen daughter Anna Anna oh Anna yeah good evening good evening sorry um your name and address please Elaine Taylor 1055 Maxim soued Road Howell New Jersey thank you well tonight um I just want to talk about farming being the chair of the farmers advisory you know I hear a lot of stories from all the farmers good stories bad stories happy stories sad stories and you know I just uh feel like I I need to just talk um this is the time of year that all the crops are winding up or finishing and of course this has to do with the ordinances but um I just feel that you know the farmers are not going to have a paycheck now you know they're not going to have any money until the spring and it's really important that May are in counsil and everyone get behind the farmers and help them to be able to get through the hard times and so um you know this year has been really rough for everyone because of the weather it was so dry and I can't speak for everyone but for myself we did okay okay my world did go really low because we were producing a lot for the for the needy and so you know I I'm sure I'm not the only one so you know it is a farming Community whether we like it or not it is and we need we need your support we need your support very badly you have to remember may I why let's let her finish I just want to ask what support she's not receiving okay and then let her finish and then we'll address yeah okay so you know we've worked together with the mayor and councel and professionals to try to come to an agreement and it it hasn't happened yet and um you know maybe this election will make a difference I don't know but it something needs to be done to help the farmers and it hasn't happened a lot because we we we can't accept what you're offering and it's we feel it's not enough it's too it's too uh it's just not enough it's not enough for the farmers to be able to really um earn the money that they need to earn during the events doing events so um you know like I said we just need to work together more to make this happen and to make it better for the farmers um so you know myself and a lot of the farmers that are in Howell support Betty valz gimbal in all that she's done in her advocacy for farmers and you know everything that she's done is ask questions and bring things to light and we just feel that we need people like Betty in our community working as a farmer and helping the other farmers and at the last meeting I mean I felt like she was being attacked and I just didn't think that that was fair and so I I needed to express that this evening and try to not let that happen in the future so so I just want to ask the public to please support our farms and to do everything in their power to per from them and you know just stick with us and do the best they can for the farmers and everyone in this room as well thank you thank you Anna good evening Anna Christian's daughter um 11 Mouse Creek Court here in Howell um thank you for your time um firstly I want to plug how Farmers United because Elaine was mentioning supporting our Farms how Farmers United was established just this past year is um it's basically Community oriented to connect our Farms to our community so um we allow our Farms to throw up Flyers what they're doing and U it's it's just a great resource and also I hope like we have a thousand listeners right I want to plug Free Speech because you know it's been a polarizing eight years or so maybe more I don't know but um people really don't feel comfortable or confident with speaking their minds and that's sad it's sad for what we founded this country on so you know please you know do what we can lead by example all of us are um I admire what you doing I have to say that I would never want to sit up there or there I don't want to be here but I love free speech so anyway I'm going to read my little statement um good evening mayor Burger Council and administra and administration for hollow Township tonight I address the council and Township as a concerned citizen we are nearly a year past the introduction of the collaborative efforts of the farming ordinances at the last council meeting there was a public review of the recollection of events on the ordinances I see fit to add what some of what was missed I'm not sure I can add all of it the proposed ordinances as written this past November 2023 did not reflect the state's vision of for sustainability of farming in New Jersey we've been networking quite a bit with different uh boards Mammoth Board of Agriculture um and so we are kind of getting more information on what's coming down the pipeline from there from their perspective too and um it is a Collective Agreement that we need to do more we need to read deeper into what we're doing for our Farms we were working um collaboratively with the administration for the farming community and making progress the town walked away from all of this this past May June give or take um the ordinances were not about special occasion events they attempted to cover the vast diversity of our farming community we were work we need to work together to come back to the table in good faith and not repeat the same mistakes how is it is in dire need of leadership that is untethered to any political party I implore you all to be those people at the last meeting Betty took the brunt of the attacks for willingly engaging on tough topics for putting herself out there for our farms and land preservation I implore our community to research for themselves and to vote for the best representation for the farming Community for our whole Community thank you thank you Anna at this time is there anyone else that would like to come up to speak good evening my name is Rosemary bird it's 501 Newton's Corner Road in Howell this is very difficult for me to do and I'm not sure I'm going to get through the whole thing because this is somebody that's already lost her farm and I'm advocating with these other Farmers so that it doesn't happen to anybody else I do stand by Betty because she is very well spoken and she's only God she's full of heart and she's just doing whatever she can to advocate for all of us that the ordinances that were written earlier this year were not pro you would not have provided the relief that the farmers needed to remain economically viable we were working with the township we were collaborating we were making some progress the issue that was uh the issue was that it was not about only the soe those new special occasion events the townside was mixing in all the other normal Farm activities that the Farms have been engaging in for decades here and now without any ordinances but suddenly the town is concerned about overseeing every aspect of the farming business claiming its safety reasons yet we question what safety issues were caused by any uh any public injuries that were there was none reported All of Us carry Farm insurance which is the same as homeowners insurance that protect themselves from any accidents that may occur so we're all covered by insurances there's never nine years I was involved here in this town and never an accident but paid large F fees in uh insurance is to be able to cover anybody that came on to my farm to do pick your own blueberries to uh purchase produce strawberries that I did in the season I you know we we covered ourselves I mean we had a lot to lose we had our farm to lose if we didn't weren't being responsible so of course we're very responsible people so suddenly the town the Viewpoint is that we're not allowed to do any activity that is not listed under an ordinance of course all these new ordinances come with a hefty price tag for us the fees that will be charged for the permission to are very exorbitant myself as a small farm scale um we were saying they were only going to allow us to have 30 people which the fee for that would have been $85 per event so you know very simple math that's almost $3 per person that would come to visit the farm would actually go to the township to pay that that event fee which you know is taking more I mean the whole purpose of this was to help us bring in additional income to help stay afloat that's not doing it on that kind of a a number I mean it's very basic math um the other option was we could pay $500 an annual fee but remember our season is very short and there's no guarantee that the events that we the events that we would have would even produce enough income to cover that upfront fee so we're putting $500 out of our pockets and we don't know if we're even going to recoup that not counting any of the other seeds and produce and everything else that we have to you know put out it was just not possible for us to come up with that kind of money up front so the real issues you know lies that we need some other kind of help it's not you know these that's why we're you know we're it was said last last meeting I heard it on the um the video recording you know that we weren't being we're putting down everything that's being put out well there's reasons why we're putting down the things that were suggested is because we can't possibly manage to cooperate with those it's just not possible financially for us so now in addition not only myself but the town is taking Farms to court mine was one that's one of the the reasons why it's gone now you're saying that um we're not zoned to be a school I had a a program with children there was two moms that were homeschooled mothers that put together a fabulous program for children what they were doing was leasing a piece of my land so I was only receiving a fraction of what they were bringing in but what they were bringing in was to pay for all the animal supplies all the feed for the animals all uh the pens this shelter the thank you Rosemary your time has ended thank you I just close with that you know that's a shame that children can't learn farming skills is that anyone else that wants to so Teresa Reed 89 how road so um tonight you know it's really just all about the ordinances that's our main focus as farmers at the last council meeting I wasn't here but I was able to listen to the audio and um definitely a little disappointed because there were a lot of questions asked and they were asked for Matt and Joe and that's you know get get everything clarified but um there was nobody that sat down with the farmers or asked them the other side to the story it honestly just listening to it made the farmers including Betty it made us look difficult and that we didn't want to agree or work with the town when that's not the case at all we have all been trying to figure out how to come to a mutual agreement um Town Administration it's not their job to be a farmer They Don't Know What It Takes and the costs that we go through and you know there is an misunderstanding and I know I spoke with someone from the sadc and they said when you want to hold these special events or these workshops it is supplemental income because like Elaine said there's no winter income so when you shut down your farm November December you still have a mortgage you still have gas you still have Visa payroll everything's still coming in how are you covering those costs and there are some people here who know exactly what that is all about so we do need these whether you consider them special events workshops Girl Scout trips you know whatever we're doing but it's always about supplementing the income but no one sat down with the farmers and said you know why aren't you agreeing to these ordinances and I will give you a little bit of an idea why and it's because the ordinances are not spelled out they're General they're vague and I don't know if I agree to them what it would cost me to go before the planning board what it would cost me do I have to do a site plan by an engineer or can we sketch it and the way the ordinances are written they give the town honestly complete control like you know I hate to say it but I feel like it's Nazi Germany here they'll be able to shut us down at any point in time oh we don't like this oh we counted two people over like they'll have complete authority over our events and our farm and you know we just can't agree to that I'm I'm an intelligent person I'm not going to agree and go yeah car blanch whatever it costs me it's why I didn't go for a use variance who's got 25,000 for a maybe and I know I spoke with one of the Town Council Members about the zoning board issue I had that they would stop me from building my house if I had one more event so you know it was a threat and you go get a use variance and literally it's on the tape you can spend the money get a lawyer and we can still turn you down or better yet we can give you a whole list of criteria to make it unaffordable that you would have to do in order for us to approve I mean there's another Farm we all know the farm in how that's in it for hundreds of thousands of dollars and they're nowhere near getting approval I can't take that risk I mean I'm 62 I'm not in it for you know the rest of you know I'm not 30 go going to do it for the rest of my life but I do want to be able to maintain this farm for the next I don't know 15 years I I just think that we should be to work together and sit down and ask the questions what does it take how do we get in the middle what's going to make Township Administration comfortable what's going to make it okay for the Farms so they don't have to you know go get another loan to make it happen and I I'm just hoping that we can get to that point and do it peacefully in a very respectful manner thank you thank you oh and I I am going to say that as far as Betty is concerned she is number one and the reason why we all still have some hope if it wasn't for her I don't know where any of us would be at this point thank you is there anyone else that would like to come up everyone Leslie Shalia 22 Migel Road I'm not a good public speaker but I just wrote some quick notes down today um on my lunch break so good evening um I've lived in Howell for 5 years now I'm the secretary of the farmers advisory committee and the preservation task force I join these groups to get involved with the farming Committee of Howell while I have met great like-minded individuals and learned about farming and proposed land use in Howell and Farmingdale I'm sorry to say that I will not apply to be a participant after my term ends this year while serving over the past two years countless requests for warehouses storefronts and large commercial dwellings come to the farmers advisory committee for review the farmers advisory committee group makes comments about preservation saving open space trees environment and I feel that our comments do not get the attention they need rather just a formality of process and then filed um I have not heard in any planning or zoning meeting that the fac comments are a factor in why development should be halted these meetings are run by our chairperson elain Taylor Who's in the audience tonight and they're very efficient and they are open to the public to come and attend and hear about the proposed plans the comments mentioned during last month's council meeting are false and it's very sad that this meeting platform was used to Showcase false information instead of verbally shaming other individuals whether running for Council or not this is what members um if if you all are condoning that um I don't support that as a resident of Howell with knowledge and true commitment to the hardworking people of Howell and Farmingdale and will and and working people at Farmingdale and will work together with current officials my vote is with Betty VES gamble um she's gone to bat countless of times for the farmers that sit in this room I do not I have a farm however it's an animal sanctuary um Betty goes to a meetings board meetings planning meetings on her own time to educate herself and share facts with the citizens and residents of how and Farmingdale I say all this to say that we need to come together and it's time for a change that's what the survey says thank you thank you very much is there anyone else that would like to come up to speak being none I'm going to close the public portion we have a motion please may I have a motion to close the public portion at this time second all in favor I okay is there anyone that would like to remove any thing on the consent agenda to vote separately excuse me mayor public comments to be answered oh um forgive me forgive me yeah so I don't want to sound like a broken record here but I think I'm gonna have to Mayor did you ever get an answer to your question how the council's not supporting the farmers I don't think you did I think you I think you got no I I but in all fairness I was told to back away no no but you asked a question I don't think you got an answer how was Council not supported the farmers well if we're going to do that then I would ask that we allow her to come up and answer that question no the question was posed To You Right and okay so if you want to do that that's fine my my point is three ordinances have been put forth by Administration to council and all three of them would have been voted on I think and approved we could have had a Year's worth of lessons to draw on we could have had a Year's worth of experience to draw on so that maybe even at this meeting we could be enhancing those ordinances supplementing them I'll I'll start off by also saying that we're we're mediation on these ordinances I'm not saying much so I'm not speaking to the specifics of them I'll just EO that so before we were going to vote on the special occasion event ordinances they were introduced and then mediation was filed with the state by m Reed so there is a confidentiality of provision attached to that so we're not going to speak other than in the most general terms um and you know I'm not the attorney here anymore but I'll caution Mt on that um but again you know if we're going to Bandy words around like falsehoods and lack of accuracy it it certainly seems to be the order of the day because the township has been working um working not just with the farmers but with the state and the county as well to make sure that what we're putting forth is consistent with state law and consistent with County egg board requirements so I like the ground that we're standing on um and you know I'll let M so a comment was made that we can't do anything unless it's permitted by ordinance that's what we're here for right that's why you have a zoning officer that's why you have a Department of Community Development to enforce our ordinances so the answer the the point of if it's not in the ordinance it's not permitted That's the Law that's the municipal land use law that's what the ordinance says that's what every ordinance in state of New Jersey says so this idea of well if it's not in the ordinance then we should just be able to do it it it doesn't ring true that's that's not how it's done and that's not how we can govern because anybody else can also use that same argument it's brought up about schools on farms person who spoke tonight filed a complaint on a farm about a school on a farm that took us to take action we went to court and we won on court we have another Farm doing the same exact thing the person who spoke filed the complaint remember that so I don't know where the inaccuracies are and where it's looking like trying to make it look like the the administration or Council isn't friendly the complaint was acted on and filed by the resident so going back we have ordinances if we're not going to file them nobody's going to problem is that what we want do we want our planning boards to have oversight of commercial applications do we want our planning board and Zoning Board to be able to Grant variances or do we want anybody to be able to do everything so the the answer of the the comment was made that we are not that the township wants to go cart blanch and be able to do anything no the township wants to enforce their ordinances whether it's the number of people attending whether it's the setup for the attendance whether it's a site plan setup for Ingress and egress lighting noise the township wants to to be able to enforce those yes what the group of people that are looking for the ordinance they looking for is car launch on their side we've sat in countless meetings and talked about the middle ground and what the township is offering is clearly not enough understood heard loud and clear doesn't mean that we can can or should increase that number or get rid of these regulations it's not that's not good that's not good planning it's not good practice have something say yeah so right now and I've said this multiple times and I'll say it again and this isn't the town that sets this requirement right now if anybody wants to do these events by state law they have to go for site plan approval or a use variance we're trying to carve out an exception to that we're trying to balance B the safety of people who are driving on the roads at night Ingress egress we're trying to balance out the storm water regulations where you may have the disruption of multiple you know multip enough land on a site to trigger storm water Rags we have to think about all that we can't just think about what's nice on the farms what's good on the farms we all know what's nice we all know it's good it's the devil's always in the details and it's how do we get there and so when we're putting up rational regulations that satisfy our obligations under state law and preserve health safety and Welfare on the farms and we're getting taken to task for it well you know right now go for site plan approval go for a use Varian because that's the only thing that's possible right now we're working to carve out exceptions so we're also being criticized for starting to get involved in on-farm direct marketing to some level there's been your marketing before for it's correct there's been Farm stands here and there limited maybe pick your own operations only until we started looking at special events and started talking to the county and to the sadc did we start to realize the level of involvement and how closely tied special events are to on Farm direct marketing our most recent ordinances wanted to keep everything the same we said we're going to deal with on Farm direct marketing later but we're going to make sure that the farm stands and the farmers markets can can go on it was rejected by the farmers they that wasn't that wasn't right so we were just trying to make it so that exactly what was going on could continue to go on let's be honest we're all on Facebook we're all on social media we see things the amount of on Farm direct marketing the size of the events the the amount of people wanting to do this it's massive so that's great for Howell because we can get in on that we can start being the destinations we can have these awesome places instead of going up Route 34 to pick your pumpkins we could do it in howl it's great but there's oversight process to it rout Route 34 has several of these sites approved the right to farm they went to the county they got approval they they they didn't even go through the township now sounds like you have to go through the township based on the county rules they didn't they didn't just get to show up one day build massive structures and do these things there was an approval process that's all we're proposing to do here so onr direct marketing gets tied in because they're very closely related and as it turns out Municipal oversight is required we've talken to the county we've talken to the state and guess what county absolutely says how exactly how you're going about this is exactly the way you should right to farm approval is not automatic it is not guaranteed you have to be covered specifically by the county act board first you have to get an approval and just last year the county said we're not doing that unless the town goes first so Township you have to do site plan approval use variance approval If you deny them or there's conditions that they don't like they can come then to the right to farm doesn't happen right to the county doesn't happen automatically the sadc has confirmed that and the C's confirmed that makes it sound like when when you hear some people come up and talk that the Township's not doing their homework Township tried to pass ordinances that were not overly specific that were overly broad to give some flexibility and they were rejected fine we dug in so now we learned some more second set of ordinances come up same idea not good enough so we try for the third and yes on from direct marketing because we got exposed to more of the regulations because we get to understand it more comes into play that's not even on the table anymore until we sort out the special events but it's not fair for this Council to make it look like that you're not being supportive because you are yeah there that's been the marching orders and and I'll correct the record council is made it very clear that they they want these ordinances but they want them that's done in a manner that's consistent with our duty to everybody in town so that's where we are right now we'll continue to keep working we have another mediation coming up scheduled for the special event ordinances so depending on how that goes we may be in a position to pass them before the end of the year and then we will turn to the on-farm direct marketing events because there are some things that are permitted understate law that we are going to have to take a little bit more of a scru we're going to have to give it a little bit more scrutiny to make sure it's something that we're comfortable with in town as opposed to you know having a more vigorous sort of approval for these particular things so there's there's a lot of uh a lot of lifting left to do with that Joe ma Caitlyn uh I have a question I'm going to guess it was at least a year ago go that uh I don't know who else came I know you and I came when yuku came we had a meeting in here where we talked about all of this and after that meeting I know we talked and we told you that we need to get this moving so the Hulk doesn't care thing doesn't it's not correct but we did also tell you just like you stated try to give them as much as you can but don't put the town at risk don't file any uh don't violate any laws any regulations and I know that all of us have constantly been in touch with you asking you questions about where are we with all of this and as far as I knew that all of you have been meeting with a group of people who represented the farmers and some of us have gone to those meetings and you would report back to us and say well this one didn't go so well but now we're going to do this and we're going to offer this and the last that I had heard about all this was that things had gone pretty well and then I sit here tonight and I hear all this so where did all this come from or did they not go well or is we blindsided tonight no we we had the special occasion event ordinances ready to go we had them introduced and then between introduction and the meeting where they were to be approved there was a mediation request made to the state Agricultural Development Committee um by Reed sadf firm so that shut down everything because we're not going to pass ordinances that are being challenged and that's where we are right now we are working to try and create a more streamlined site plan approval process so that there is less Cost Less red tape but still maximum protection for Citizens uh so that that's where we are we're we're working with our professionals right now we've talked to ranara we've talked to Jen beam we're going to talk to some of our other professionals to see just how much more we can cut out of our site plan process excuse me but at some point there has to be some sort of process in place we can't just say have at it and we'll figure it out in real time but to Echo that we are still in mediation so beyond what Joe has said we really can't say anything else until that mediation has may I is that okay um because I think we're all frustrated up here because we and I appreciate mayor's reaction too we are all in total support to reiterate councilman gager comments and the administration total support I was actually privi to a a huge meeting we had right in here with a lot of the represent from the from the farmers uh group and I was in awe that the township would actually collaborate at such at such lengths with with the citizens because my understanding was that that didn't necessarily even have to happen so the collaboration has been ongoing um and please correct me if if I'm not you know I I I'm new at this obviously even especially with the farming but we're all this is all new territory for for everybody in on a state level and at this point almost a year ago we could have considered it a pilot program we had a starting point and I remember Mr Howard specifically saying we can start with this number everything goes smoothly we'll look at again we'll increase the number um but because of the push back here we are almost a year later we're all frustrated they're frustrated we're frustrated um and ironically we all want the same thing um we're constantly fighting government overreach we don't want that either we don't want all the red tape but we have to follow the law so I'm hearing frustration from from both sides but I I I appreciate the clarification from the professionals um and and from our our governing body here because um it's it's more complicated than just you know have an event have a party sell your produce it it's just not that simple um homeschooling we're for homeschooling uh We've talked about that privately we we've had this discussion but it has to be done correctly it has to be done uh legally so it's a shame bottom line what I want to say it's a shame because from from our point of view from our standpoint we could have had something in place whether you want to call it a pilot program a starting point and here we are we have nothing you know well I I'm I'm sorry goad there's one other you know aspect to it as well you know Eagle Oaks also put kind of a bit of a a wedge into this as well I mean so yeah which is a a a business owner expressing concern about unfair competition unfair processes within the township um whether we like the what they had to say or not it it held value it it was relevant and it's something that may still come up in these ordinances we don't have anything that's passed we don't have an appeal period That's gone through um we're trying to carve something out as manager Clark said from the beginning we're trying to carve something out from nothing we are trying to create an exception there is no question that we are trying to loosen the red tape where red tape exists for others there's going to be a challenge potentially it other towns in the state have to be facing or reviewing or looking at similar we we spoken to surrounding towns and a lot of them are issuing summonses for weddings being held on farms because they have no ordinance in place because the county and state are saying that's the process and the few towns that do have some we've looked at their ordinances some are more strict some have a 10-day period before an event that a resident can come to the council and complain and put a Hal to the event so there's some aspects that are not really going to work for Howell we haven't used those we've looked at those other ordinances and we've brought some things in but these are also towns maybe with 4,500 people people and three times the size so there there are hard uh consistencies to make and we've taken what we can we think we've come up with an ordinance that would be modeled by many other towns if if it passed and we can prove that it works which I think it would Joe you say something thank you so one last I mean our voices here we we've been pretty consistent with this I do feel like a broken record we can bring Jen beam we can bring Ron cero to next council meeting and we can get the professionals take on this we have at at our on our planning board Jen beam who is one of the best planners in the state and Ron cachero who is one of if not the best land use attorneys you hear it directly from them is we'll bring them you know we've had this conversation uh when you first showed those ordinances to us and I looked at him and I said I think you went too far I think you're giving too much because I think you're putting the town at risk and what happened immediately Eagle Oaks right which we didn't expect that from them but we expected it from we expected something different than that but we had opened oursel up for that and of course that whole Eagle Oaks thing was completely misrepresented uh and you went to our professionals and what did they tell you if Eagle Oaks takes us to court what would they what what's going to happen we're going to lose all right based upon the ordinance that we have and I'll tell you I'll go back on the record today you know try to give the farmers everything that they can but it's not going to be you're going to do whatever you want and and that's it and that's the way it's going to be you know we're going to follow the law we're going to follow the regulations you know we don't make this up we go to the people who know and we ask them but there's a question what about this what about that they come back to us and they tell us where we would stand legally so I mean that that's my take on it I just don't understand how we had all those meetings and it seemed like everything was going along nice and now I'm sitting here listening to people telling me how we're taken money added her PO because we haven't helped them at all and we don't know if we'll ever get there unless we remove the regulations all together so at this point we're in mediation I don't think it's a bad idea for Council to consider taking action on the ordinance and passing them maybe in spite of everything we we talk about reviewing those ordinances again and decide if you want to pass them and let's get real world experience because we're not moving forward all that quickly anyway we'd like to be and we're still working and we'll continue to work but maybe we should look at those is there any resolution in sight on the arbitration case so we can't speak into too much specifics on that we're still meeting with our professionals and we hope to be back in mediation in the next week or two and we'll see but that really has no bearing on what we do anyway it does and it doesn't I mean it's a challenge to the ordinances so it may inform you know something that we're looking to do um but yeah and I'm sure Caitlin will disagree with I don't necessarily recommend moving forward on any ordinances that are being currently challenged those resolutions have been concluded because we want to make sure that we're moving forward on a basis that we won't be challenged because if we move forward expecting a challenge all we're really doing is endangering people's tax dollars with a legal battle and nobody wants that we want to put forth ordinances that aren't going to be challenged and that will help the farmers I speak out of frustration because I've been at this for over a year too I've been the one drafting three ordinances I've been the one meeting with sadc as has Caitlyn and Joe it's out of frustration we've done more on these ordinances than I think we've ever in my eight years have done on any other ordinance and that includes massive master plan changes and Zoning changes so I think we put in our effort I I I would take your legal guidance over what I say in terms of acting on ordinances but it just shows you where we're at okay have we responded to all questions statement yes okay we're at the consent agenda at this time does anybody want to pull anything out to vote on it independently may I have a motion for resolution r24 d368 through 24378 may I have a motion to accept motion to accept resolution r24 368 through an including r24 378 may I have a second second councilwoman fiser yes councilman gager yes Council no Donal after we vote yeah after we vote you don't want to vote um do you want to pull it something out I wanted to make a comment on one of the resolutions so pull it out okay which one uh 24378 okay I'll modify my motion to approve resolution r24 368 through and including r24 d377 I'll second councilman Fischer yes councilman gaser yes councilwoman odonnell yes Deputy Mayor Nell yes mayor Burger yes thank you those consent resolution itions pass may I have a um a motion for R 24378 I'll make a motion to move uh same resolution may I have a second second discussion okay yeah the only the discussion that I have is that um I still would like to make sure that Administration is fully aware that I and I think well I won't speak for anybody else but as much as we can do in terms of keeping this Warehouse out I still would like to continue that to the fullest extent that Administration feels that they can follow at this point in time understood that's uh that's the goal that's what we're working towards we are it's a non-binding letter of intent we're going to keep talking to them and when or if we get to a deal that we think is the best for the township then we'll put something on where there's uh you know there's there's an approval but right now this is the first part of the continuation so absolutely I understand thank you okay so may I have a motion for to approve R 24 there is a motion on the table sorry for that's okay all right I'm going to do a roll call Council fiser yes councilman gager yes councilwoman odonnell yes Deputy Mayor Nell yes mayor Burger yes thank you the resolution passes we have unfinished business zero 24-4 Capital ordinance providing for recreation improvements to Oakland Park and appropriating $330,000 therefore you missing an e therefore authorized in and by the township of Hell in the county of Mammoth of momas New Jersey I would like to open this for public discussion seeing none I would like a motion to close second all in favor I I may I have a motion to adopt motion to adopt ordinance 24-40 second councilwoman fiser yes councilman gazer yes councilwoman odonnell yes Deputy Mayor Nell yes mayor Burger yes thank you the ordinance is adopted uh ordinance 2441 ordinance of the township of Hal County of Mammoth state of New Jersey amending and supplementing chapter 178 of the Township Code entitled housing code rental property I'd like to open this for public discussion good evening Mark pry 2 Castle Court I just wanted to say that it's nice to see that you know that there's some proactive steps being taken to address some of the rental over occupany issues that are going on town because haven't spoken with a lot of people in the community it's it's a concern uh and I imagine that this ordinance is intended to address some of that my question tonight is maybe the administration could do this could you just kind of walk through an example to so that for the public to understand like how this ordinance like went implemented like you know you guys receive a complaint you or and you go out and you investigate or you you pull documents can you just maybe just give a little Clarity is like how this ordinance will operate in in real time thanks Matt I'm going to sit down you want me to take it or so we do know over occupancy we know our rentals are a major issue it's a major quality of life issue council's done not just this ordinance this is probably about the 10th in the last two years we started with increasing the fines setting the maximum occupancy per first by state law um revoking or um doing revocation ordinances really tightening our grip on rentals um we've also instituted an annual inspection as opposed to just change of ownership and tency and that's a big one that plays into this so um within the next year just like any other year um every single rental is going to have to come in for their landlord registration which is the annual requirement always has been but also a renewal for your rental start it's a gives us an opportunity to check the tency list again because most often we have different people in or a lot more people in uh it also allows us to do an inspection so when we receive those applications we are going to pull the deed off Mammoth County's website um and the mortgage and within that document uh almost every single mortgage will have an occupancy Clause um and it'll say you're you must occupy owner must occupy the house um for a year two years it may vary but usually it's one year and if you're going to rent you need ritten approval from the mortgage company some houses won't have mortgages won't apply some houses may be being purchased as a rental and then that occupancy Clause will read something different but if it has that Clause that says that you have to live in that house we are going to before we process your application ask for that written documentation and if we don't get it you don't get a rental sht and you can't occupy that house um if you're already in if there's a rental already in place we're going to be asking for it and we're going to start talking about what has to be done if you can't get that letter um because the idea is that um that occupancy Clause means something and the Township's not is going is Township's going to use that and make sure that mortgage companies also know what's going on in these houses how how would the mortgage company view that so it depends if you were buying a house and I I know when I bought my house they asked me a lot of times what am I using it for is it a second home is it a first home is it a rental and if you lie uh um then I believe the mortgage company has a case for for something I'll let the lawyers speak to that but we want to make sure that they're on notice right yeah there's a very special word for it it's fraud so yeah and a lot of these mortgage Clauses that have that language about you know you have to have residency in the property for a year are based on a mortgage that's given for a primary resident so a lot of people seem to be getting mortgages for a primary residents and then are not using them for a primary residence so it's just an additional layer of checks and balances here so you know if your mortgage company isn't allowing it then we're not going to allow it either one one last question because we we discussed this there's a big difference apply for a mortgage to live in and to one for a rental isn't there oh yeah it goes straight to the heart of the risk of the mortgage so if you have you know 20 people 20 renters living and that's a very different situation than when it's your primary residence so um credit where credit was du is due I will flag the deputy mayor is bringing this one to our attention so it's a I think this is going to be a very helpful ordinance um yeah it's a primary rental Clause it tends to be boilerplate if you check your own mortgage it's usually somewhere around paragraph six or eight or something it'll be in there nine times out of 10 and it says you'll be using it as your Prim M residents for at least a year um or unless permissions granted by the the lean holder um spoiler alert they probably don't like to do that too much for that very reason it's a different risk that's uh that's assigned so any landlord can be proactive and get that letter um get you know be in touch with your mortgage company make sure that they're on board but the idea is if the mortgage company has an issue with this it's because you've made some statements that probably you're not following so um it's important that that get that the mortgage company's on the same page they'll be getting copies of violation letters if it gets that point and uh so that they know what's going on in their their own houses as well and in addition this ordinance doesn't only address the uh Clauses and mortgages about the occupancy requirements but it also requires proof of liability insurance that's it's a state law now that landlords need to have certain amounts of liability insurance it's 500 ,000 that as long as we require it as part of our ordinances and our rental application it is a requirement for the landlords to have to have it so it's consistent with state law and it's just an additional factor to you know if people are making this their business to rent out their homes that they're doing it appropriately and safely Mr molo steeve orino peachstone Road 38 years uh in regard to this ordinance in the 38 years I've lived here I've seen more police activity on my street in the last year than in the 38 years I've been living in Howell and that's because we have two rental properties owned by llc's I see at least 10 children coming out of each house getting on school buses every day I see a multitude of families people moving in people moving out okay I've talked to a few of these people very few of them speak English the ones that do are renting rooms in in houses they have microwaves they have all kinds of things in the room they rent which the room by the way has been subdivided okay one bedroom's been divided into two rooms we're doing with this ordinance I have no faith that any mortgage company is going to follow up on these rental properties there has to be more teeth in what we do that we can go in and inspect these properties now I hear we're going to an annual inspection that's all well and good okay but what happens on the day of the inspection how does that work people come and people go I own property in Jackson that I rent okay there's very stringent things I have to do in order to rent that property okay there's fines involved there's all kinds of issues involved there's annual inspections there's Co inspections that are done okay I don't see any of that going on on my street so what I'm saying is we need to put some te teeth behind this somehow so that the Township Code officials can go in and see what's going on I don't know what our regulations call for what the law allows but I can tell you we're seeing a degression in my community that's terrible and when it keeps up it looks like blockbusting it looks like people are moving in they hold parties loud noises all kinds of fireworks going off okay to disrupt the peace in the community it's a quality of life issue and we need to take some action to get it down to a point where we can enforce it and I don't believe any mortgage companies got the capability to do that so I'd like to hear something more than the mortgage company is going to respond because they quite frankly once they get their cash couldn't care less and a lot of these people come in with a suitcase of money and put cash down there is no mortgage company and it's an LLC that they hide behind Okay so we need to take a look get our legal people involved and find out what we can do to improve the quality of life in this Township cuz it's quickly going downhill thank you Mr Mr did you witness those microwaves because no I haven't been in the house you said that CU tenant told me the the person living there who was smoking weed outside in his car told me about this when the ambulance is pulled up and seven police cars pulled up I asked him what was going on he says I don't know I just ordered door Dash he says I'm going to heat it up in my microwave in my room so I don't know I'm not the inspector know that that actually happened I'm telling you what he told me is it here say yeah yeah take it to the bank an issue with summons and subpoena you then say what we couldn't issue them a summons in subpoena you because it's here say I understand that it's not my job to do the inspection it's not my job to regulate this you were elected to do it you came up here and made an accusation I asked you an accusation about what so an accusation that we're not doing the job so you're not doing the job when seven cop cars got to show up at one house several times you're not doing your job give Matt the address and he'll send somebody over there good I talked to the police and I also talk to code officials I'll give him the address again several addresses by the way I'm happy to say one on peachstone drive has been revoked so we're aware of the issues they take they take time they take multiple inspections and uh I wish Mr Morino would schedule some time and maybe we could sit and talk for a little bit and I wish maybe he attended some more meetings or listen because I think everything he said is exactly what this Council has done for the last two years we've passed more stringent fines we've passed annual inspections we're getting in the units more and we are revoking cos if there are repeat issues and nuisance issues exactly one on his street has been revoked and we will be in court shortly enforcing that revocation if it is not fixed so there's a lot that was said there that we're already doing um I also could we just clarify that with this we're not relying on the mortgage company to do anything exactly that's the whole point this is this point of this ordinance is all the mortgage frud going on it gives the township teeth to actually do something you pulled permission and if there's no Co and there's occupancy we could take our next steps and it escalates very quickly from that point forward so we're not asking the mortgage companies to be enforcer we know that's not going to happen we're counting on the bad players here to not be able to get the letter so that we can then issue uh our revocations and take the action we need to um we cannot go door to door to our rentals and within two hours notice go knock on the door and demand access and I don't think that's what Jackson's doing so we have a 24 to 48 hour clause and we use that multiple times a week where we put the manager or the tenant on notice and we show up in 24 hours and we do our inspection and we get access I guarantee you no other town is doing it quicker than that and if they are they probably have their own issues microwave and Mr gazer you hit it on it perfectly hears SEC we all know what we know we can look at properties we can make judgments we can make assumptions and they just that until code enforcement can prove it and again absolutely right we say we're coming in 24 hours guess what happens the day before we're coming for an annual inspection next week guess what happens my inspectors are getting very good at finding the signs of construction work having taken place and the signs of construction work haven't been removed we were just at PD this morning manager Clark and myself giving a presentation to our police department and continually communicating with our Police Department to say when you see something let us know when you see something put it in your report and tell us so that we can grab your police report the next day and then we can give them a 24-hour notice and we can take action we've done all this and more it's a slow process we get a complaint filed it takes us weeks to get out it doesn't take it takes us a day to get out and inspect fact it takes 2 weeks for a violation to get corrected it takes 3 weeks for a violation turn summons to get into court it takes multiple summons to do a revocation I know that it goes two weeks and the resident say look nothing's being done code enforcement's not doing anything we are but we have to follow a process to make sure that when we get to the to the end we can do something as forceful as a revocation and that's exactly what we're doing but if we're going to take every complaint and say there's microwaves in subdivided rooms because somebody told me and somebody told me and somebody told me judge is going to laugh us out and none of our cases are going to move forward so we need our proof we go about getting it the right way and we're not going to put our officials at risk or myself or my code inspectors by doing it the wrong way may I Mr Howard I'd also like the uh to remind the public that the policies coming out of treton have us tied I asked two years ago I believe when we first started my first question was can we raise the fines $22,000 maximum not allowed Trenton said no we can't do that so again we've been saying this this is our number one issue number one issue in how and we're all dealing with it the the big desire I could tell from the residents is that we want our single family zoning to be intact right now there's Adu accessory dwelling unit legislation pending at the state don't know if it's going to move forward or not it's at risk of potentially permitting as of right apartments in houses and your shed turning into uh a living Unit A dwelling unit this legislation is pending it might be coming I mean the the some of these laws are very difficult to work around and single family zoning does not exist anymore I have to be able to prove that something is being used as a boarding house or a multif family dwelling and that doesn't mean that there's two last names living at a house or four last names living at a house I have to go well beyond that to to prove it and it's not easy and what we know is not what we can prove and just to key off that it's it's an uphill battle and nobody wants to hear it it it there's constitutional implications due process implications there's a lot of legal leg work that needs to be done we can't kick open doors grab people by the neck and drag them out in the street we have to go through proper channels and proper process and that does take time can I make a motion please okay motion to adopt ordinance 24- motion to close public comment motion to end public comment second all in favor I I thank you now I make a motion to adopt ordinance 2441 second Council fish yes we have a discussion on this uh just wanted um just the follow up while we're open um Matt at the next meeting would you be able to provide us with the numbers of how many rental cosos are on notice for revocation Y how many have been revoked yep generally and with regard to the specific ordinance as well yes I can give you an update right now in terms of we have six properties that the pro the right the rental rights have been revoked for over a year none have even been appealed through the ordinance to myself as the Director of Community Development so those are active again we are taking the next steps and trying to make sure that that revocation is valid uh and that the property is not being occupied that takes additional steps so just us writing the letter and taking it away doesn't anything we're planning on going into court um we probably have 40 to 50 other notices out saying you have 30 days to comply or you're going to have your rights revoked we're ready to go into court on every single one of those if necessary and um so either one way or the other we're going to get compliance on 40 to 50 properties 30 to 50 properties in the next month or we're going to be revoking that many so I can give you an update next meeting as well thanks M okay I have a motion in second roll call councilwoman Fischer yes councilman gager yes councilwoman odonna yes Deputy Mayor Nell yes mayor Burger yes thank you the ordinance is adopted at this time I would like to make a motion to accept ordinance 24-42 ordinance authorizing traffic enforcement upon real property located at 90 Industrial Court in accordance with the request of the property owner I'd like to open this for public discussion seeing none I'd like in motion to close motion to close public second may I have a motion to all in favor I I thank you may I have a motion to accept motion to accept uh ordinance 2442 two second councilman Fischer yes councilman gaser yes Council n Donnell yes Deputy Mayor Nell yes mayor Burger yes thank you the ordinance is adopted ordinance 2 4-43 ordinance authorizing traffic enforcement upon real property located at 96 Industrial Court in accordance with the request of the property owner may I open for public comment may I have a motion to close motion to close second second all in favor I may I have a motion to accept 2443 motion to adopt ordinance 2443 thank you second second councilwoman fiser yes councilman gazer yes councilwoman odono yes Deputy Mayor Nell yes mayor Burger yes thank you the ordinance is adopted there are no introduction of ordinance at this time so I am going to call for um adjournment of the meeting but I did want to say something on a personal basis um and I know that this is an ongoing investigation with the kubel family um I just left that meeting and I felt um I felt a bit of Heartache for his parents and I I sat here and I did not say anything and I kicked myself in my butt but I just felt that um if they are going through what they say they are going through I hope that when we complete this investigation that if there is found someone who has done what they're saying that they he someone has done then I do hope that we take that and and really make an example that that is not acceptable in this Township or in this police department so I I just felt I personally needed to say that you know no one should have to hear anything about their child that their child doesn't want them to know about if it doesn't come out of their mouth and that's just Teresa Burger so at that point I will say that the next meeting is November 12th regular uh at 7 executive at 6 May I have a motion to end the meeting motion to adjourn second second on favor I thanks