##VIDEO ID:LZrv4x1vwZA## [Music] Eileen good evening can you please open up the meeting Zoning Board of adjustment how Township Monday November 4th 2024 I hereby declare this meeting of the how Township zoning board to be open adequate notice hav been given pursuant to the New Jersey open public meeting act in the following manner first on December mcber 11th 2023 a copy of said notice was mailed to the Asbury Park Press and the Star Ledger second on December 11th 2023 a copy of said notice was hand delivered to the clerk of the township of Howell third on December 11th 2023 said notice was was posted in the office of the zoning board and now the bulletin board in the how Township municipal Bill building 4567 Route 9 how Township New Jersey in accordance with the fire preven code and for your safety please be advised that this facility is designed with two emergency exits at the front and the rear of the meeting room furthermore smoking is not permitted in the municipal building please take note that this meeting is being being videotaped for possible future broadcast on Howell Township TV 77 this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues of what the board May legally consider and reaching a decision and the decorum appropriate to judicial hearing must be maintained at all times thank you thank you Eileen can we have a roll call please Mr burillo here Mr caner here Mr Hughes here Mr Mertens here Mr Rosco is absent Mr Ryan present miss scotson here and chairman say here you have a quorum thank you will everyone please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance and let the record show that Mr Rosco is joining us I pledge alance to flaged States of America the for stands Nation indivisible Justice for All okay thank you Andy can you have a swearing in of the professionals please you swear the testimony truth I do please State your names for the record Glen gerin for T&M Associates Jennifer beam Sherry SPO your professional thank you sir item five approval of minutes regular meeting September 23rd 2024 eligible vo is burillo caner use Merton Ryan scotson and seya we have a motion please I'll make a motion second okay roll call please Mr burillo yes Mr caner yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Marans yes Mr Ryan yes Miss scotson yes and chairman SE yes minutes approved thank you do we have any vouchers no vouchers tonight do we have any correspondence I have two things for correspondence um the storm storm water management training still needs to be completed by one member um so the township will be in compliance okay and the second thing for correspond uh I would like to discuss and approve the meeting dates for 2025 um if not I I request to approve at least four meetings in the beginning so I can schedule some applicants got it board members have you all looked at the uh calendar for next year yeah as as we discussed earlier we're better up going with September 15th instead of the 22nd yeah the only other consideration microphone the only other consideration would be that October 6th is the first night of sukot which if there's really observant people it would be an issue I would think the 20th and 27th you know that's one on top of each other but at least it' be away from all the the holidays yeah that's fine do everybody think that works that works Eileen and then uh also I'm sorry uh April 7th right I not the 14th because of Passover correct yep okay like all the Jewish holidays are Monday this year next year okay anybody else so everybody's in favor the three adjustments April 7th Vice the 14th September 15th Vice the 22nd and October 20th Vice October 6th 2025 ien you tracking yes got it do you need an approval from everyone member here yes all right roll call please motion to approve yes second Mr burillo yes Mr caner yes Mr Hughes yes Mr merens yes Mr Rosco yes Mr Ryan yes Miss scotson yes and chairman say it yes meeting dates approved thank you thank you okay resolutions do we have any resolutions today we have two I sent them out after the agenda after the agenda so I don't have them in front of me uh you wa do you want me to read them please do okay case number ba 2324 Christopher keskus resolution granting bulk variances eligible voters burillo cancer Hughes Merton Ryan scotson and seya do I have a motion I'll make a motion I'll second that please Mr burillo yes Mr caner yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Mr merens yes Mr Rosco yes oh I'm sorry you're not to vote Mr Ryan yes Miss scotson yes and chairman seya yes resolution approved okay the second one case number ba 19-23 SP Yeshiva emur resolution granting use variants and final major site plan eligible voters caner Hughes Mertens Ryan scotson and seya motion I make a motion to approve I'll second that Mr caner yes Mr Hughes yes Mr Mertens yes Mr Ryan yes Miss scotson yes and chairman say yes resolution approved thank you okay applications before the board tonight we're going to begin with case number ba 23-18 Cranberry Road Holdings this is a conditional use variance bulk variance and preliminary and final major site plan approval application of primury Road Holdings as applicant and owner seeking conditional use variants Bulan variants and preliminary and final major site plan approval for the construction of a 2,130 ft office building for a contractor's use with Associated parking equipment trailer storage and outdoor material storage in the St one Zone on premises known as block 184 Lot 2 4 383 Cranberry Road this application was previously held heard on January 22nd 2024 expiration date November 30th 2024 and the eligible voter is are burillo caner use Mertens Orosco say scotson and seya Ryan scotson and seya well it's been a whole year almost yes all right let's talk good evening good evening John sardo from Gano Hower and cisla uh attorney for applicant Cranberry Road Holdings LLC um I guess I'll just start out with a little refresher from where we were since it's been so long um the applicant is as I mentioned Cranberry Road Holdings and the site at 383 kber road is presently um improved with and used by the so Brothers paving business it's a trade contractor business and and they've operated at that site for many years um they had been operating primarily out of a temporary trailer for years which was created a problem um particularly with their Co that temporary trailer since been removed um and they obtained a planning board approval um in 2021 we're here tonight seeking again primarily a modification to that approval which would uh provide for a smaller office building uh um many of the improvements and location of the improvements remain the same um when we were here in January we didn't really get too far into the application uh before an issue was raised about the planning board approval and if the variances that had been granted had been perfected uh which caused us to seek an adjournment to go back and perfect that approval which I'm going to report to you that we have over the past several months uh um the approvals perfected bonds posted and the construction of the improvements along the frontage of the property curbing Paving and the like which we'll tell you more about this evening um are under construction or completed with construction um and why do I bring that up because one of our significant variances that we need is with respect to the 50 Foot residential buffer um this is a commercial site across Cranberry Road we have the PRC Zone uh which is improved with the existing equestro residential development um and to the east it's the AR6 Zone uh which permits residential although it's used commercially by the county uh presently again we'll get into those details but I wanted to give that background before we got started tonight Jan yes I can confirm that um the applicant has been working for basically the better better of the past year um with Community Development with Matt with Claire getting the sew stuff all squared away they have been working to perfect that uh planning board approval which they have done so now it's my opinion that they have to rely they have the right to rely upon the relief that they received associated with that approval moving into this application okay Glen have anything to add or not particularly to that I have been out at the site and they have started and have completed some of the improvements along Cranberry Road predominantly the curb radiuses and that coming into the site so it is true that yes they have started construction on that okay all right sir then yeah I guess before just some more background before I call my first witness is we submitted some revised architectural plans uh slightly modifying the design and um the board's professionals tnm and C um I C uh Miss beam uh issued review letters in advance of last week's meeting so we'll be addressing the comments uh in those two letters and my first witness will be Patrick award of insight well let's have him sworn in you SAR the testimony give will be the whole trth nothing but the TR I do please state your name for the records spell your last Patrick Ward WD with Insite engineering give your Andy we're good yeah did he testify to last hearing John I don't remember yes may want to just go through the qualifications briefly for the board okay yeah sure uh I have a bachelor's of Science and civil engineering from drexell University um been licensed engineer for over 11 years and I have testified in front of the Township's planning board numerous times and the zoning board a handful of times you're licensed in the state of New Jersey I am okay we'll accept your credentials sir thank you Mr chair okay um I think what I'd like to start with if we could pull up one of the we we submitted a a few exhibits and one is an aerial from actually quite recently from October 20th if uh we can have that pulled up um maybe I just change what I'll do is I'll start describing the property so this one we have a about a three acre lot located in the S1 Zone I hope this is picking me up there we go that's better um as Mr sardo stated ESO Brothers paving currently owns and operates their business from the property all of their Paving operations emanate from the property help there um I would just wait a second till the exhibit comes yep that's fine it's an overhead it's you have the the exhibit number yeah it would be a25 sorry I was having trouble reading it from here there we go so we're seeking site plan approval based somewhat heavily on the 2021 approval to improve the property the goal of the applicant is to provide a new Administrative Building um it's a local business uh they don't need a terribly large office but they have a handful of administrative uh employees that they want to make this their headquarters for all of their operations so what you see here on a25 is the existing conditions and this is a as recent this is aerial is from October 20th of this year so it really is a good snapshot if um whoever is running that um if you could zoom in a little bit more on the words Cranberry Road what I think the reason I have this exhibit updated to October 20th is really to show the board what's been done out there and the big dark line that cuts across that's the Shadow from an existing solid fence is that better yep that's perfect thank you so much and what you could see are the curb entrances the radi um there is some filling done behind the curb and they have some of the base the stone base for the parking lot Paving and that is the same curb alignment that was from the 20121 approval carries through to the current plans in front of this board um the goal here was to start cleaning up the front of the property I would say it's a Paving operation so there isn't anything that's beautiful out there but the front was for years gravel and all the employees would park arguably maybe hanging out into the RightWay a little bit with their vehicles so we wanted to start from the front and demonstrate that you know this is where things are going and I'll get into what what this ultimately will look like with a color rendering but we are on Cranberry Road we're about A4 Mile East of the cranberry Yellow Book Road intersection and we're generally surrounded by similar uses off on the right side is the mammoth County Highway yard um to the south of us is a multiple tenant Contractor Yard um you can kind of see the edge of it there it's quite larger than our facility to the West we have a private Commercial contractor yard and across the street you could see the tip of the rear tip of equestra and then on the northwest side of this that's the rear entrance to the George Harms yard just for frame of reference so as you can see on this the uh equestra is surrounded by a 100 foot perimeter buffer and and as the property kind of turns away on that the nearest Street in equestra you could tell we have a a somewhat significant distance between um the rear of those homes and what where our property begins and where some of our operations will be um today as you can see on here the site is nearly entirely impervious surface It's a combination of pavement sections and uh compacted gravel that's been traversed quite a bit by their vehicles what we're proposing are two curb Cuts or access points from the property um I mentioned before that that dark line across the property is the Shadow from a chain link fence with some screening on it um and the applicant right now uses the area in front of the fence for employee parking and then actually not in this snapshot because it was being actively constructed behind that is where all the operations were it's the business end of the property like iy like to say where all the equipment and operations emanate from so behind the fence we have a couple of structures that are existing proposed to remain and and one of the structures that was actually proposed to be removed has been removed there was a temporary construction trailer that was been there for several years that's been removed which I think is uh positive uh seen positively in the the eyes of the township Administration ation so what else is there we have an existing masonry garage which I'm going to use my green it's right here um kind of a unique looking structure with a unique stone siding um temporary Construction trail has been removed and in the bottom left that gray square is we call it a quantit hut it's like an arched Hut structure a little bigger than a Hut it's used as a uh maintenance garage um currently on the property you can see on the west side there are some delineated parking spaces in the back for passenger vehicles and some assigned work truck parking and then along the East and Southern side there are some enclosed storage trailers which this this image doesn't quite do it justice these storage trailers are on this side and in the back you can see some vehicles and there's some material storage bins uh and other items stored out in the open as you can see their equipment U some of their equipment is shown on this image and they have it arranged in a way that and and know parked in a way that works for them so they can get in and out um if you could pull up the current rendering I don't know what that was marked as but with that list I could probably tell you and I'll describe what we're we're proposing to do so the one right below at a26 a26 yes ma'am perfect so this really showing the end result result um they were intending to clean up and upgrade the site really particularly clean up the front so it doesn't really scream uh contractor Paving yard and then the rear will be cleaned up paved in spaces where you could see which will make more sense uh preserve the existing buildings and propose this new office building so we're proposing is this office headquarters building relatively small 2130 ft the single story structure with a gable roof that's the the newest change um from the most recent submission there is no showroom for this type of use I know that was a a comment a question really raised in the planning review letter there are no there is no showroom needed for a use like this and we don't propose one we are proposing along the southern side five new cleaned up storage material storage bins they'll be constructed with an 8ft tall uh perimeter called Mafia block wall and a conrete slab base we are relocating the four enclosed storage trailers to the South property line as you can see and then also at the rear is going to be a trash enclosure so how does this compare to the 2021 approval the layout of the property and the limits of development are more or less unchanged the extent of pavement with gravel final gravel and actual asphalt is less than what was approved in 2021 the final plans for the 2021 approval were at 83.2 six% impervious we're now at 80.4 7% um in 2021 the the big difference is the main the main building the office building we actually had proposed a wider taller building there's more office space there was actually a large kind of open air meeting space that was covered and three large maintenance garages one large building that actually would have replaced that masonry building that we're keeping it would have gone all the way across here in L of these structures we're proposing a smaller office building which presents a smaller facade to the right of way um the existing Garage in the front of the yard is to remain and I mentioned the um kind of unusual siding the stone siding we're proposing to reside that to match the siding on the proposed office building the garage at the rear that quanti Hut is to remain as is both of these garages currently function for internal maintenance of some of their equipment and that function will remain unchanged all the buildings that I mentioned are accessory in nature to the main operations or headquarters office building that were proposing this is and will be a single user site um one other change that isn't shown on here but it's worth mentioning um the applicant initially proposed truck canopies open air truck canopies on the West and East sides that were about four feet off the property lines those are no longer proposed so we're taking more structure away with this version version of the uh final proposal um and now finally with the front everything from like the fence line to the north here is virtually unchanged from the last planning board approval I'll get into some of the landscaping and what we're doing out there but we're proposing to completely clean up the employee vehicle parking landscape it and U provide a nice streetcape on Cranberry Road uh couple other things about the site Township master plan called for Cranberry Road to be a 60 foot wide RightWay currently it's 50 so as such in order to provide our necessary half width the applicant has dedicated 5 feet across this Frontage to achieve that RightWay width you could see the new driveway entrances and exits that will be provided the West driveway will be an entrance and the East will be an exit and that circulation will continue through to the back um again the employee parking is going to be up front north of the fence and that'll be completely redone the curb is in new pavement will be done and the Landscaping will be done all in front of the main building fences and Gates the main building is about 92 ft from the new dedication line along Cranberry Road previously it was 85 ft so we're actually pulling the building back 7 ft a solid vinyl fence is proposed on either side of the office building the front side of front facade is going to act as part of the barrier there so the fence will die into each side um the driveway ways to the rear yard will be separated from the front parking lot with solid sliding Gates as well the goal here is to utilize the fencing the gates and the front facade of the building to visually screen the rear yard and its contents from the public view shed the applicant will provide uh KNX boxes at both gates for emergency vehicle access as well so behind the Gates it's a typical Contractor Yard for a Paving contractor albeit what we're proposing is a substantial improvement over what's out there today the majority of the yard will be paved as shown that darker gray is limits of asphalt pavement with some gravel areas at the rear where pavement is not necessary we have 17 delineated spaces in the rear they're they're larger spaces delineated for assigned work truck spacing so the way that their operations work they have a handful of vehicles where they have assigned parking so that they're closer to the headquarters building the company has 65 total Vehicles we include 36 trucks and 29 trailers as all vehicles uh we're not combining any of them that's really for the fleet vehicle requirement of the trade contractor use but a unique aspect of the paving contractor business and this use due to the nature of their operations most of their vehicles go from work site one to work site two directly they don't all come back you know Park and then have to remobilize so mobilization as long as they stay busy which they are they'll just go from site to site and that's kind of a unique operation here with that trade contractor use if for some reason this is probably not a great reason um they all had to be back at the property at headquarters the rear yard is large enough to put all the vehicles in it not necessarily in a perfect you know commercial parking lot order but they can stack them up and there's plenty of room back there for all their vehicles uh another point of clarification that was raised in the T&M review letter all the fleet vehicles are intended to be stored in the rear yard the front parking lot is for passeng vehicles for the employees and those employees include some of the you know the handful of office workers but a lot of them are the the field workers we do have a area right in the middle for tractor trailer parking it's it'll be striped it's a little tough to see on here but there's a yellow box right there that is for you know kind of a dedicated open space when trailers do have to come in and for things have to be loaded or unloaded it's a central area it works for their operation and again circulation will mimic the front we'll have oneway circulation around the yard from west to east and enough room to circulate around that trailer parking area between the buildings for storm order management just kind of a general overview first we will comply with the board engineer comments I know they were looking for some storm order maning calculations we did some of that behind the scenes before this meeting we have no issue we're confident that we'll meet all the conditions or or uh review comments noted in that letter so no issue there we are seeking to reduce existing coverage on site by about 25,000 Square F feet um like right now today like I said it's basically almost all impervious right now elevations on site generally slope from the front to the back we're seeking to mimic that condition by virtue of reducing the amount of coverage on site that we are we're reducing the amount of runoff generated by the project improving the existing conditions and our storm water analysis is complying with the Township's ordinance requirements for major development which was noted in the tnm review and we'll prove that um happily as if the if approved by the board as a condition utilities here the site will be served by public sewer interesting tidbit for prior approval the sewer was extended by the applicant up cranber road to this property we will finally connect properly to it water publicly is available and so is gas and electric so no Wells no septic systems are existing or proposed for landscaping and lighting we're proposing what we find to be appropriate landscaping around the main building and within the front parking area we have a series of foundation plantings on the North and East sides of the main building um we are going to propo going to propose mechanical equipment this is one of the things raised by one of the board professionals on the east side of the building um probably only need one condenser for that small building it'll be located there screened by the the the proposed plantings along Cranberry Road we're proposed proposing six Street trees as required by ordinance and a series of Evergreens between them a series of mediumsized shrubs are proposed along the edges of the parking stalls the center landscaped area along Cranberry Road will be burned up about 3 feet above grade other ground cover like Juniper ly Turf and some River Rock areas are proposed as well to enhance the parking area and driveways so that landscape plan was developed and this is going back to 2021 with the neighbors in mind notably the equestrial development to the north we understand that we're not proposing the buffer as defined in the ordinance and and what we got relief for previously but we're seeking to enhance equestra currently existing 100 foot perimeter buffer with our landscape arrangement we feel that the burm and the shrubs will screen any vehicle headlights facing cranberry and the street trees and evergreen trees proposed along the rideway will enhance the Aesthetics of the property from any Northern view shed we are proposing four lights and one building mounted fixture in the front parking lot and in the rear yard we're proposing a series of building mounted and pole mounted fixture lighting fixtures with the goal of Illuminating the critical areas of the yard your parking areas your pavement around the buildings some truck parking areas and the refu area the streetscape and lighting is Sim similar to the 2021 approval with some minor Landscaping changes due to the change in building locations and the fence line for parking and traffic we're proposing we're providing 45 passenger vehicle spaces on site site two of which are Ada this meets and exceeds the required parking for this use based on the building size in terms of traffic changes is important we feel that there's a minimal traffic change today operationally from the construction side of things the use and intensity of the of the site and business is not changing that doesn't change with this application so the proposal before the board is for the new administrative office building the proposal for traffic changes is for the new Administrative Office building and some of the layout improvements on site conservatively based on available it data which is you using a number of uh using the number of single tenant office spaces as the variable the addition of the office building will generate up to 29 additional trips per day for the passenger vehicles we feel this will be a dominous impact on the current traffic condition of Cranberry Road and the local Road Network again the construction vehicle operation of the paving company is not changing not proposed to be expanded or Chang as a result of this proposal in terms of signage we're proposing three and this actually this proposal has been condensed since 2021 Jen you're good with the signage I am okay we're good go ahead we have one small it was bigger before we have one facade sign on the front face of the building and then the two gates uh Theo Brothers paving company has uh their signature Diamond badge sign that we're going to put on the gates um so we're proposing that and we're also proposing which a 30ft tall flag pole at the northwest corner of the building that's the same from 2021 and the goal is to fly the American flag on the poll if the board approves John that would be my direct if there are any questions for engineering okay so Glenn did did we answer all the uh tnm I believe we did uh just again for the record what is the proposed and prvious coverage was that the 80 something that yeah let me get that one second 80.4 7 okay we're 70% permitted but it's a reduction from substantial reduction from what's uh around 91% in the prior approval correct also with the drainage although it is a major drainage application since it deserves more than one acre of ground uh there's an overall reduction in the appropr coverage and therefore a total reduction in the uh quantity of water to flow off of that area so they are in conformance with the the state and your ordinance on that great thank you anything else Clen uh just want question with it um under waivers uh lighting you said there was what four po lights in the front the ordinance requires A3 foot candle minimum I understand maybe on the whole site it doesn't meet that but does the front parking area itself meet that yes it's just the rear that we don't meet it in every corner of that property yeah so the predominant car parking lot area will conform and the back will not which is a contractor's yard yes so I can i h just ask about hours of operation do you have lighting uh timers and do they go off the the proposed fixtures are uh dimmable and can be timed so we we can do that Jen um I don't think I have anything for him I mean we've come a long way we have and they have worked really hard this past here to get to where we are now okay board members for the uh for the engineer any questions no G I'll ask Pat just to sit here for a moment but uh I'd like to just pull up the architectural plans too just to show the board okay what's proposed um is that in your drive sorry falling down the this one20 yes nope sorry no it's it'll be a later one that's the prior one I don't know 821 it was in there go that's yes this and actually if you can go to the last sheet in that set you'll see what the um the existing masonry build so this is like the streetcape you kind of see the two buildings next to each other and what the Landscaping generally will will look like or try will try to achieve so the wall signs on there the badge and uh like I said the goal is to screen everything at the rear from the public and I I'll note that we've added the um the roof it was previously a flat roof this better meets the uh requirements of the ordinance as pointed out in the review letter U but yeah you'll see the signage on the bottom there as well um I figured it was worth bringing this up and seeing and Jen you're good with this architectural I am okay um do you have any other professionals that are uh I do I have a professional planner that can address the variances we need we're ready for the planner Jen we're ready for the planner I am okay let's do it thank you Andy you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you I do St your name for the record Robert Hudak h a and I'm with Insight engineering and would you mind put your K credentials on the record absolutely thank you so I've been a professional planner for over 10 years I my master's degrees from Villanova University my undergrad is from Montclair State University I've appeared before numerous boards throughout the state of New Jersey but I have men have the distinct honor of serving before this board and so you're licensed and my licenses are up to date and Jersey Gooding I have a question for you sir were you part of the 2021 planning board approval I was not ah so New Perspective okay let's hear what was that me fresh meat yeah he was essentially we'll accept your credentials sir all right let's do it so as you're well aware this site's located in the S Special Economic Development Zone one we back in 2021 we met there there were no conditions this was a permitted use within the zone at that time it is now a conditional use requiring us since we are not meeting all the conditions requiring us to come before this board to the north as youve noted you have the equestrian the PRC Zone you have industrial uses to the east south and west although to the east where the county yard is it's in the AR E6 Zone the rest of the to the east and south it is the S1 Zone which contains commercial uses so with back to the Varian is being sought I'm going to first talk about the the D3 variants we're seeking we don't comply specifically with the material storage minimum setbacks from the side and rear which are required to meet either the 10t or the 50ft buffer requirement we're at 8T 11 in from the East side and 17 ft from the rear we also don't comply with the maximum permitted office space which is 25% where limited to were at 25.3% and also the minimum buffer set the 50ft buffer set back from the adjacent residential zones to the north and east we're providing a less than 50 foot buffer to the north and there's no buffer to the east with any with respect to go forward yes those buffers were evaluated as part of the site plan application before the planning board correct yes and Le was granted for the buffer at that time yes correct okay yeah I was just going to say that we had several previously approved variances in cour specifically the buffer the structures and parking with the outdoor storage within the buffer that was previously approved in 2021 the buffer itself how it consist of a Four Season buffer with Landscaping including a 6 foot high firm and 10ft wall that was also previously granted in 20121 the signage there's a maximum permitted one sign there were two signs that were permitted back in 2021 under the relief the impervious surface coverages you also heard was granted at around 91% we're now going to as you've heard 8047 so with respect to the D3 criteria the focus of the application or I should say on the board's review is based upon whether or not the site can accommodate the problems associated with the use in our case with respect to the buffer specifically to the east these properties are although they're zoned residential contain the county storage yard the buffer and setbacks are really designed to provide a visual screen from residential uses so in in essence the buffers and the setbacks wouldn't really serve that purpose because you have commercial uses immediately adjacent to our property we also providing uh additional Landscaping in the front addresses those issues though which are previously approved variances we are complying with those and as noted by the engineer there's already about 150ft buffer if you will because you have the the right the 55 ft right away plus the 150 ft um conservation easement to the north of the subject site so we're significantly far away from the Residential Properties to the North and the application we're seeking tonight reduces the impervious surfaces it also results in a better more aesthetically pleasing building rather than the trailers on site and these changes improve the site Aesthetics reducing the visual impact of the existing used we're also the organized store outdoor storage designated parking reinforce operational efficiency minimize disruption to the surroundings and support the applicant commitment to conform as much as possible to the zon's intended standards The Office Space is really the Minimus we're talking about 3% which won't result in my opinion in a real visible change by the naked eye you really won't see 3% um it's also deep within the property so I doubt that it will really create any issues if you will um given the proposal includes measures to approve upon the previously approved elements such as lot coverage and other deviations that won't distract from the properties intended and existing use the improvements align with the municipal an use's goal to foster well planned development that balances industrial functionality with compatibility with adjacent uses with respect to the positive criteria for the C variances we seek and again these were all previously approved I don't know how much you want me to Pine on them but basically we're advancing several purpose of zoning including purpose a the general welfare because a site is appropriate for the use because obviously this is a conditionally but it is a permitted use in the site we're also impr improving upon what's existing there and what was approved purpose C the adequate light a in open space the office space that we're really that we're proposing which is really the the nuts and bolts of this application tonight um provide adequate light air in open space we meet all those setback requirements and of course purpose side the desirable visual environment is met because we are making the site more aesthetically pleasing uh to people passing by we also with respect to the other F the better zoning alternative the buffer to the north we are providing something that currently doesn't exist we're providing that buffering we also uh receive relief from that requirement the outdoor storage again or jent to commercial uses there's really not any benefit to uh the neighborhood to the east the County's going to continue using that site as they see fit uh adding the buffer would not really would just reduce visible uh usable areas within our site and with respect to the signs they address the safety purposes of zoning uh for way finding purposes um it's a much bettermed Improvement of course no variance can be granted without finding of the negative criteria that there won't be any substantial detriment to the public good again we're approving the site we're making it more aesthetically pleasing so there will be a positive impact of our site in addition the office building will improve working conditions on site and overall Aesthetics so in my opinion there is no detriment to the public good and with respect to any impairments of the intent and purpose of the zoning plan and the master plan the trade contractor use is a permitted use of that with certain conditions but the deviations really don't result in any significant impairment uh the proposed signs will comply with the ordinance respect to Total permitted area the Landscaping buffer will improve the site beyond what it is currently and Beyond what was approved and simil the project will reduce reduce impervious cover meeting your master plan goals of uh maintaining consistency with the purpose of the ML and the project advances those purposes so with respect to the variances I think balance the board can grant them based on the proofs presented tonight thank you sir board members any questions for the planner no Jen no we're good okay well thank you sir um let's open it to public I'll make a motion to open the public second while in favor the board will now open to the public if you'd like to come up stay your name and your address sir Les Mandell 46 West of inway do you swear the testimony that give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do state your name and address for the record Les spendel 46 West of Vinci way um this is questions for the planner or the engineer um or are you just making comments sir I'm not sure which so let me start with comments and then we'll see if there's questions go okay all right um so I I live in equestra uh close to where the uh Theo location is SC Holdings um I understand having um industrial zones next to residential zones there's issues there's always issues there's noise issues for the residential sometimes there's traffic issues but the idea of the buffer was to help to alleviate those those kind of issues so before we get too deep in the wilderness on the buffer they already got approved for the buffer that they're being provided and if they didn't come here to reduce the sides of the building they could build it based on their 2021 approval where they got the relief for the buffer they're not asking for any changes to that well I thought that at the January zoning board meeting that it was said that because they hadn't done anything to perfect their earlier approval and the zoning had changed they needed new approvals from here so they have a right to rely upon the relief variances run with the land um but we at the time last January they had not finalized their approval what we discussed when they first started the application is the reason that they've T it's taken them so long to get back here is they have perfected that approval they've perfected it they've posted all their bonds and they that's why they' started the site work so they do have that relief and they're entitled to rely upon it at the time at the last meeting the reason why we weren't allowing them to rely upon the relief is that they hadn't finalize their approvals that has happened now so they are relying upon the relief that they received and if if the board says no they're still allowed to build what they got approved in 2021 which is a bigger building with the flat roof Which is less aesthetically pleasing so I I'm not trying to jump on your time you have as much time as you need but I just I'm just advising the board they did perfect those approvals they have the right to rely upon the relief that they already received and if this board says no they're going to build what they got approved in 2021 which in my opinion is worse is worse is a worst scenario with a bigger building with a more industrial look this looks a little bit more residential which um and they've added landscaping and other amenities or improvements from the last approval to make it less obnoxious I get it I understand the concern but they do have approvals on the site and so the the the buffer is the buffer that was approved and the variance was granted and it was um it was granted with a 3ot burm rather than a 6ot it was granted as they have it designed yes okay well then maybe I'll be asking the uh the applicant if they can be helpful to do more improving of that to cause a little bit more buffering between uh for example with the burm if you made it a 6 foot instead of a 3 foot um yes there is land between the houses and the street and the property but the uh there is also noise and you know they um this is something that could be done at the when the County Road Department built their burm several years ago it did significantly help with the noise so uh as part participating in the community please consider and to the zoning board please consider when there's future applicants that you keep in mind the compromise here with the residents and the uh industrial uses to please keep the burm keep the uh the the uh buffer zones in the future thank you Le Mr gardano would your applicant be Willard you got a promotion um that's me the would the applicant be willing to give us six foot versus three foot on the BM I'd have to consult with my engineer to see if the that's something that we have room to do or could be viable I just going to um as as much as I'd like to have more uh buffering for them if you put a six foot burm in that very small space the trees are not in the ground they're going to be up high up in the burm and they're more likely to die because they're more exposed to the elements that way so you'll have to change some of the species right that are in the BM in the current BM no I don't I think what she's saying is that because it's such a narrow space and it's going to be up down regardless of what you put there it would be difficult for them to get to the actual ground right right it's just it's just more open to the elements it's kind of like having a plant in a pot over the winter it would be better surviving in the ground but Maring up with what the county did on the property next door to it wider yeah it's more space they have more width so you need to be able to grade it up and down you can't go vertical it won't stay there um I would suggest maybe working with Sherie in terms of maybe not increasing the height of the burn but maybe alter like changing maybe some of the species types to make it more of a permanent Four Season screen you know what I mean instead of instead of some deciduous which will lose the leaves in the winter time yeah we I mean we we typically always agree to work with Sherry to make sure everything's to the Township's liking one other item is the site distance um the taller the BM is between the entrances these are some larger trucks at times that come in and out of there so we don't want to limit um visibility on cranberry and cause or diminish safety exiting um that's something that actually the applicant has asked me multiple times how even with in 21 what is this going to look like for getting in and out of there um our plans do show compliance with the required site distance but the higher the ground goes you get into that 30 inch limit there I think the answer is yes we'll work with Mr SPO thank you sir okay anyone else good evening I'm John Scarlet from uh 42 West D Vinci just have to swear you do you swear the testimony you give will be the truth all truth nothing but the truth I do state your names as spell your last and your address please John Scarlets SKR L TTS 42 West ofin thank you sir so I thank you for bringing that up this that was one of the questions whether or not the species could be changed is not you know there's not a very strong screening in there with Evergreens there is a loss of uh excuse me a foliage between us now matter of fact I could see it very clearly I literally live right behind them um there was two other things issues raised I believe uh in in the reports I don't remember if it was the engineering report or if it was the planners report um both of dealing with uh compliance with the uh noise ordinances uh as well as a question about the hours of operation and those changing between the previous so I was wondering if those could be addressed um the hours of operation are 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. 7 days a week uh I think there was a question that was raised in the uh engineering review letter that dated back to other hours that were propos in 2015 approval um but we're slightly different uh but what's proposed is what is expected 6 AM to 6 PM um the high the major time of year when they're in full operation is in the warmer months that's when you'll have more employees in that front Field parking and during the winter months they're going to be at like a quarter of the staff so they'll have about a quarter of the full staff in the employee lot concern really isn't it's it's more with the noise issues um parking lot is an issue there is an employee who basically drives a mobile base speaker that comes in at about 530 and plays it for a while every morning that's that's a concern the other part is the the when the trucks return and by the way they're not always by six o'clock and sometimes it's in the middle of the night um when they do dump whatever spoilers they have left it's it's quite loud so you know noise compliance is a is a so here in Howell the county is the Arbiter of the noise the the the town um has adopted the state noise ordinance and the county is the regulator of that noise but I just want to make it abundantly clear that the noise ordinance doesn't say no noise it says consistent noise for 15 minutes and 15 minutes is a long time and we run into that issue with like dogs barking where a dog will bark for 10 minutes and then stop and then start again that's not a violation of the noise ordance there's also an intermittent noise so you would have to call if you have an issue with the noise you have to call the county they'll come out with the the meters and measure the noise we don't regulate that thank you anyone else in public Vice chair motion to close second all in favor ien we're Clos to public media is now closed to public uh brief summation from my standpoint uh we're asking that the board approve the application Grant the variance as requested um as as already discussed this would and specifically by Miss beam um what we're seeking to do here is to actually slightly reduce the intensity of what's already approved on the site um and get something approved that works better for the applicant as well uh I think it will be a welcomed Improvement once the it's constructed U given the condition that the property's been in for many years uh will result in a nice streetcape and kind of bring closure to the issue that's been lingering uh to put it plainly um so we're asking that the board uh Grant this approval thank you sir so board members what's the pleasure of the board here well Mr chair I'd like to go ahead and make a motion to approve this application Mr Hughes second we have a second from Miss scotson oh wait with Jose here oh I can't sorry sorry Emory I will then second the motion Mr Ryan will second okay very good Mr use Mr Ryan ien roll call please Mr burillo yes Mr caner yes Mr Hughes yes Mr merens yes Mr Rosco yes Mr Ryan yes and chairman say Sher you'll uh you'll work closely with them yes yes okay great my yes applications approved thank you thank you very much thank you okay okay so the next case is going to be yeah ba 24-7 1805 us9 LLC the board's going to take five the board will now take a f minute break and reconvene at 8:02 Eileen we're back the meeting will now reconvene okay in front of us is case number ba 24- 071 1805 us9 LLC this is a use variant and pre preliminary and final major site plan application of 1805 us9 as applicant and owner seeking use variants in preliminary and final major site plan approval for improvements to the existing building facade storm water management system on-site circulation lighting and sight improvements on 1805 Route 9 block 144 lot 73.1 this application was previously heard on October 7th when it was carried to November 4th expiration date 27 November 2024 eligible boers burillo Hughes Burton Orosco oryan scotson and caner sir good evening Mr chairman board members um as that you read qualified board members are you a qualified board member no I'm not oh so but we have here wonderful thank you so very much you're welcome this is an application for for not not development but for redoing cleaning up the existing site at 1805 Route 9 the existing site is approximately 5.3 acres and the buildings that are shown on the exhibit that is before you are buildings that exist at this time there's no request by the applicant to expand those buildings the applicant is proposing as was presented by Mr zner at the last meeting the applicant is proposing to redo the site those redus on the site are the introduction of a drainage system where there is none the drainage system would be a modern drainage system significantly modifying the circulation currently in the south east corner correct in the Southeast corner there's a dead end and what is proposed is to have circulation around the entire site eliminate the dead end there was testimony that that design was reviewed by your fire chief the plan that we presented is consistent with his recommendations we are are introducing environmental controls there was no one did a wetland delineation on this the applicant did and is respecting the wetlands that are located in front of the property the applicant has a landscape plan that has been presented to miss spau for her review and I'm going to ask if she would confirm on the record before we conclude that we have met with her requirements there's a new lighting plan it's an LED lighting plan there was testimony that was placed on the record by Mr zner at the last meeting and that testimony was confir confirmed by Mr conliff who indicated that um he M Mr zner indicated he was working with Mr Cliff to provide an LA LED lighting system consistent with his requirements the core of that was 4,000 Kelvin lighting all LED all down lighting all lighting that could be controlled the applicant is tying the entire project into the water and sewer right now it's not on Water and Sewer the applicant agreed during the last hearing that they would resurface all of the parking lots and all of the driveways initially we had asked for an opportunity to do partial the request of this board was that the applicant resurface everything the answer is yes it was a request made by to the applicant at the last meeting that the sidewalk along we had asked that we'd be permitted to do a contribution and the request of the board was that we have a sidewalk along Route 9 We'll add the sidewalk along Route 9 it's my recollection that the sidewalk Around The Jug Handle was not a requirement and that could be a contribution I'm hoping I recall that correctly and we've agreed to that it was a request that we have title 39 designation in place and we agreed that we would do title 39 there's additional parking there's no no new buildings but there's seven new parking spaces there's also EV charging station and handicap parking all of that is not in existence at this time that was the testimony that was presented by Mr zner to the board at the last hearing and was commented on by the professionals I did not intend to call Mr zner again because that is now part of the record but I've asked that he join me just in case there are any questions or concerns now or later in the evening with regard to his testimony there was a question raised as to the drainage pit that is under the car wash there is a drainage pit under the car wash it was a mystery the mystery's gone away it's not a mystery there was no sanitary sewer system for the car wash there was a big I'm going to call it a holding tank um I'd like to call it a vesal Remnant because we're going to tie that car wash into the sanitary sewer system and that visal Remnant will be gone its perp its purpose is it's no longer there so it'll be removed that was the engineering testimony we had gone through the staff Mr Cliff's reports and I believe that we had satisfied Mr cliff on all of his concerns we had then gone to the testimony of the uh one of the principles about the operation of a business and that's where we stopped and with permission first I'd like to confirm with the board and the board staff that the engineering testimony is as I've outlined and what wonder if anyone wants me to go any deeper with board members do you have any questions for Mr zna no I don't okay Glen I just having a little hard time hearing you Canen but with regard to the drives and parking areas are they going to totally resurface that whole area every bit of it it needs it yeah we're going to we'll we'll Mill and resurface the en and then restripe all the parking restripe all the parking more parking larger parking stols EV stations and handicap yes and you had one well that is there where the drive is going to connect your souly building around to the front parking area that has to get capped and removed what all the health department requirements will we we septic and Wells are being abandoned okay yeah no septic and Wells thank you so you what you have is an applicant who purchased the property and is it's all improvements with the applicant there are two gentlemen who are the applicant they're here this evening they are seated in the first row Mr marttin Mormon and Mr Yakov Jacobs Mr Jake they are Partners in the property Mr Jacobs um proposes to operate his business from building number one which is the building on on the screen that is to the left of the of the the diagram I spoke to your attorney and to your planner I asked for permission if I could profer to the board for efficiency purposes what the business would be and I have no objections from the board's Prof your board professionals if that is acceptable it's acceptable sir thank you I had spent considerable time with the client going over his business operation his business operation has been in existence for a number of years the he operates his business on a full-time basis with a single shift the business has operated with eight full-time administrative employees there are four outside salesmen and seven warehousemen State Mo oper the eight full-time administrative Personnel will be in an office element a short just a few minutes from now Mr rasi will walk you through where the office element is the office element is is clearly shown on Mr R these plans and it's approximately 3,500 square ft it's part of the existing building our client's business is an established operation they are a wholesale to Wholesale Distributor of three products vitamins nutrition supplements and small electronics they purchase vitamins the supplements and small electronics in bulk they come to the into them in on pallets and they sell them strictly wholesale they are not fulfillment centers they're not in the retail business they not in the internet business they are wholesale to wholesale the product is on their site for short periods of time ranging from a few days to up to three months they also process returns of electric electronic products that are received damaged or inoperable sometimes they're sent back they have to send them back to the dist to the original salesperson they have two business locations one current L one is in Delaware and one is in Lakewood the Lakewood is a rental property that they intend to close the Lakewood operation will be brought to this building with your permission they own two trucks a cargo van and a box truck these two trucks communicate commute daily Monday to Thursday and occasionally on Friday but Monday to Thursday they they go back and forth between Delaware and the site they are own trucks that's the trucks that are that they are using on a daily basis they do not engage in any weekend activity and they're prepared to State there will be no weekend activity after the last meeting we carefully went over their tractor trailer movements I spend some time with the client to make sure that we got all the tractor trailer movements it was a little awkward the last time as Mr Jacobs was recalling then there was another one and then there's 18 tractor trailer movements maximum on a 30-day period 18 tractor Trail movements on during a 30-day period they anticipate that the tractor trailer and the tractor trailer is bringing the product to them that's that's what's occurring when the tractor trailers arrive tractor trailers typically come to the site discharge their cargo and on some occasions bring cargo back to the other site they are on site for a very brief period just a few hours our clients hold wholesale customers are National and international with clientele throughout the world they do not manufacture they do not fabricate they do not engage in retail sales product comes in on pallets they break it down repackage it on pallets and send it out to their ultimate ultimate client and the 7,000 SQ foot module that's available is ideal for our client's business Mr Jacobs authorized me to make those statements I make them to you with his full authorization knowing that they are binding on the applicant as we go forward Mr Pape that occupies includes both buildings the um as we look at the buildings building number one is the building that is located on the left hand side the 7,000 SQ foot module that would be where the materials come in and go out is the back of that building and what if there's a 3500t office element that exists is in very bad condition and that is in the same building in the front shortly Mr rasi's plan will make it very clear only the operation's only in that building okay the U other operations we had gone over there is a uh a person who prints t-shirts who's located in the front building there's an empty space in the front building and then there are four uses in that building number two and we had gone over those with okay board members any questions I I do go ahead Mr P the Mr Pape the tractor trailers bring the product in from wherever they're met purchased from what kind of trucks take the product back out to the customer what what what product how how does the material leave the site correct the the trucks that our clients own the the the cargo truck and the box truck yes sir thank you and they take the product to Delaware if I understood the goes back and forth some sometimes materials are shipped from Delaware sometimes materials are shipped from here and the business is wholesale to wholesale or strictly wholesale to Hol it's never sold to the public on the record no retail no no fulfillment no internet sales they are a an existing business wholesale to wholesale they they they bring the materials in and sell it to primarily to retail businesses they're wholesaling to retail businesses who then sell the product to the thank you they have no contact with the public yeah right strictly wholesale doesn't make sense Glen I just wanted confirmation with the tractor trailers are there any difficulties of them exiting the site we're concerned a little bit with the radiuses out out there at Highway 9 Jay Troutman is here our traffic expert and we have a tractor trailer circulation plan he when I call him he'll present it to you but the building was the The Loading Docks were designed by Mr zoger and circulation was incorporated into that design yeah I don't have any problem with the loading dock it's just the entrance mainly the exit out of the site onto Route n I'll have Mr Troutman speak to it but you'll we also have a circulation plan to present okay anything else board members yes go ahead um just to just to recap because we are at four to five trucks per week tractor trailers coming in okay so the tractor trailer comes into to or if approved comes into your howl location gets broken down into smaller um pallets and then shipped off to Delaware tractor trailer arrives at this site it unloads its material into this site it could become coming from a supplier it could be coming from Delaware all the pallets are then in the in the warehouse building they are broken down into for delivery to an end purchaser so this there's so many vitamins so much nutritional so much Electronics put on a pallet wrapped and then it is placed e e the cargo van or the um the box truck and occasionally the tractor trailer will while it's in the dock take materials from here back to Delaware where it's then shipped okay so it goes to Delaware yes and then I think you said or there was testimony at some point that shipments come from Delaware back up to New Jersey that shipment what happens to that the shipment that comes from Delaware to New Jersey from then from New Jersey to what it's palletized and it's it is then it's then sold to the retail client they have their own trucks to do what they can or they use so so you do have wholesale to retail no they have wholesale they are wholesale selling wholesale that to a retail operator who you that's wholesale to retail and then the retail operator sells their product they do not do retail so they're wholesale to wholesale they have no contact with a retail customer other than someone who is selling retail but we are we are dealing with distribution this is a distribution this is this is a whole this is a warehouse for the purpose of distribution it's not an inaccurate statement No it's a storage building storage or Warehouse building it's a warehouse that was the word that I used initially and so it's not it's not storage it's it's a warehouse for distribution purposes that your definition has storage and Warehouse occurring it's a it's shortterm materials come in get repackaged and then they go back out but there's a there's a large turnover here it's it's not it was first presented to us as Storage storage being to me something that isn't an everyday um you know many hours during the day turnover back and forth this this is a um a business operation that runs Monday to Friday half a day on Friday not on the weekends and this this this activity occurs um all all all day long um I so I guess well there's a traffic you have a traffic uh engineer going to be yes giving his and um and also I think John the code enforcer agar brought up the uh situation about taking down the wall so we're going to be going through all that I can do that I I tried to reach Mr agar today I think he's on a holiday um but there was there is a a temporary wall that was installed by someone prior to our client purchasing it um it is a wall That's not attached to the ceiling it's just standing in the building and our client rather than tear the wall down it's made an application to Mr agar to take that wall down it's just a wall That's I don't even know why it's there it doesn't create a room it's in the warehouse but the purpose I I I thought the last time the purpose is you were going to be the office space was going to have access to to the warehouse absolutely it's an existing office element in that Mr so does that access currently exist my clients are telling me that yes access from the front office to the storage portion of the building currently exists okay um I think that's all I have for now I have one thing to add add to the uh operations with growth do you think this building will be accommodating if there's growth or what's going to happen if there is growth down the road Mr merens the the commitment of the applicant is what I've just placed before you if the growth exceeds that they have two choices move or come back here to the board to ask for further relief but they are we went through this in great detail they are prepared to be bound to the statements that we've just made to you okay thank you so I guess my only question uh Jen is that based on what they're talking about with regard to short term and up to three months is that does that still quantify it as a warehouse versus a storage which is what it was initially presented as it it's the same you know it's the the same use group it'll have the same parking demand Etc um and they are here for a use variance they do have a planner in the audience that's going to justify the use variants for this along with multiple principal structures on a single lot those types of things um so I think that it's cons I think the statement of operations that was read is just a little bit more organized description of what is how this is going to function um but I agree with Mr burillo like it's it's not storage it's coming in it's being repackaged and it's shipping out that's distribution but there is no there was in there's no fabrication correct Mr Pape and no manufacturing nothing so it's really just like take the pallet open it R distribute it and then send it back out to you Jen is that storage versus what they're describing that's distribution yeah but I mean does that fit okay does it set well with you I mean it's not permitted no matter what so okay they're they're that's why they're here um I will say the use has been there I don't know that I've ever seen a truck go in and out of there to be perfectly honest no offense um I actually didn't know I mean I knew the car wash was there I didn't know this expansive until I went back there when the application came in um so as long as the operations are consistent with what has been happening I don't see the negative but I will say that I I see Mr troutman's in the audience for traffic and I do think one of the things that are going to come up and I don't know if you have this at the tip of your fingertips but be ready um I think it's not just like when you're talking about 18 tractor trailers a month I think we're going to want to understand is that 18 in and 18 out 18 total how many in and out on an average per day I understand that this is Monday through let's say lunchtime is on Friday um but just to understand the distribution of the vehicles in and out I think is important to understand whether or not it's impactful but I can tell you if it's operating currently I don't necessarily see this massive impact with 18 trucks in a month whereas you have these big Filman centers and you're talking 18 trips like in the morning you know so so I think that's important to to make that distinction and they're going directly on and off a state highway which is kind of where you would want them as opposed to winding through you know your neighborhood streets so but I would defer my opinion on that until Mr trapman provides his testimony yeah exactly okay with permission I'd like to go to Mr zner don't leave us but you're excused but I'd like to go to Mr Steve rasi our architect and to present to you the uh vision of redoing the buildings and most important to go over the floor plans has he been previously sworn in no Mr chair not been here a lot I know that but Andy oh Steve was sworn in Mr chair he just didn't testify okay so we'll need his credentials did he give he give you his professional credentials so you're still under ro oh if you were sworn in you're still under Ro correct I believe we were all sworn in together so Mr rasi we need your credentials on the record please so I'm a licensed uh architect in the state of New Jersey uh presented in front of this board before uh became um I graduated from New Jersey Institute of Technology in 19 we accept your credential sir thank you what your license is in good stand your New Jersey license is it in good standing today yes it is I know that you have been working for some time with Miss Beam on the facades I know that you have been working and doing as you were directed by Miss beam if you could just put if if we could what do you need on up here yeah I think um if I could have she CS front elevation yeah let uh she CS3 uh building one conceptual elevation is it in your plans uh yes it is not Charlie so you have to give me it's uh should be the third sheet in that set yes they are so back one with3 yeah so if you could just very briefly I know I you worked with Miss beam to satisfy her requirement just very briefly what's the goal with the the re redoing the facade of the building so uh we're not planning on expanding either of the two buildings uh my intention is to significantly improve the Aesthetics of the facade uh with new materials and finishes uh as well as to make some interior improvements two buildings could you just give a sense of the colors materials that you'd intend to use uh yes J you went over these yeah I'm not 100% mr's office is committed to working with me because some of these walls are still a little blank for our you know based upon our design standards and I I don't mean to put words in your mouth Steve but we've been working together on this and we'll continue to work on it and he's committed to working with my office if the board were to act in the affirmative on the application so got it perhaps then for efficiency we could just go to the floor plans Mr chair yes Steve is that acceptable yes okay so the floor plan what which sheet is the floor plan okay so then I would like to go to sheet cs1 which is back two sheets uh yes and I I I think the most important part of your testimony would be the the 7,000 ft module that is the warehouse or storage identify identified on the plan and the 3500t office that would be associated with it and identifying the the interconnection could you do that with this exhibit uh yes I could please so so in the uh corner of the building of the L um the vertical portion all the way down to the bottom um when you enter at the portion of the bottom that's an existing office space of uh 315 squ feet on the first floor and then as you enter through there that connects to the warehouse which goes up on the sheet that's uh 7316 ft of Warehouse straight up yeah if you go straight up on the P um so that's all connected and then in addition inside the warehouse there's some accessory office space if you see on your left of where the cursor is it says existing office 927 squ ft um there's some small office space inside the warehouse that por since the warehouse is um uh two stories high um the uh office is a mezzanine so it has some more additional office space on top of that also at the top of the page that uh rectangle all the way at the top of the page which would be the e Eastern point of the building there's a mezzanine on top of that and then a portion of the existing 3100 squ foot office space there's an existing office space there now we haven't expanded any of these Footprints these are all existing spaces existing Warehouse existing office um next to that uh I guess north of that to the left we have a retail space which is a um I guess a silk screening t-shirt uh retail store they make custom t-shirts um that space is underutilized so we're dividing it into two smaller retail spaces and moving the uh t-shirt to the left and that would make a 1528 ft retail space between the office and the uh t-shirt uh company for a future tenant and then of course all the way to the left uh all the way to the north would be a the existing uh 4 Bay uh Car Wash um if if we could go to the next sheet which is CS2 so this shows the second floor as you can see most of the whole building it's one story but all the way on the right the southern Mo portion there's uh 1160 Square ft of office space so so that part of the office building is two stories um the building's unusual how it's constructed it's it's constructed parts of her steel parts of her block parts of her wood that portion is a is a wood uh construction and then east of that is the uh the open volume of the warehouse space and you could see the mezzanine that's there that existing mezzanine where it says existing office 892 sare ft that actually looks down into the warehouse space and then all the way at the top of the page um east of the building is a uh small uh office mezzanine um in that top corner so as you can see most of the second floor uh most of the building has no second floor um just a portion of the warehouse and the office which is all one tenant and what you've just described is the existing conditions of the building correct that is correct and the existing so there is an existing office with a connection to the warehouse portion of the building that's correct we're we're not changing any of the connections there might be some uh changes inside the office moving some internal walls on the office but we're not changing the square footage of the existing office I think we should also do the same description of building number two okay so building number two uh that is shown on she CS4 if you this is a collection of interesting uses that all on that you're going to describe the pre-existing uses at the site uh yes that's correct if you would so so um so it looks like the north arrow is actually reversed on this so it actually should be facing the other direction the north Arrow but so if if you go to um tenant space a which is the right of the page AG um that's uh an existing party rental store called Mr Happy um it is a 2677 Square ft uh and there's a small office area in the front and then the remainder of the space is open storage space um for uh party rental supplies so next to that space is tenant space b which is called the Jam room and this is a a music studio this space is is pretty much a uh it has a footprint of uh 3,160 Square ft and the second floor is almost as big as the first floor so inside this building they built an entire second floor um which is approximately 2,942 Square ft uh this is made up of uh recording studios um multiple recording studios on the first floor the second floor um and that takes up this this whole Space um next to that is tenant space c which is uh called Tirecraft and this is a uh auto shop that specializes in uh um tire sales and you know putting tires on vehicles uh this is a total of 291 Square ft uh it has a small office area in the front for customers to come in and then it has a larger office area in the back um for employees to work and the central area is all an auto shop where they pull vehicles in through these overhead doors and and you know replace tires the uh the fourth and final space is tenant space d uh this is approximately 3,3 Square ft uh this has a this is vacant currently but this was a storage use um and when I first went there there was uh products being stored in this space and in the back there's one small office and an existing bathroom so it's pretty much one big open space with a with a a small office and bathroom at the back of the space so you've got car wash a warehouse style building an office retail retail and this collection of uses we would stipulate that there would the no use introduced to any portion of the building no new use introduced any portion of the building that was not consistent with the HD1 Zone without a return trip to this board Jen I mean I'm I don't really get involved so much in the interior breaking up of the building other than if it's a warehouse we can have a certain percentage of office as part of it for a parking C which they comply with um so I don't have any problems and as I said earlier Mr rasi is committed to working with my office on the facade so I don't have any problems with the architectural testimony thank you board members go the what is the access is it just a doorway going from the um from the warehouse to the office from Warehouse to office yes so they're and how many door is it one doorway she C us one um right here right yeah so there's um how do I point to um so yeah so when you walk in you walk in on the west side of the building into the office space and then there's all the office and then you just keep going um East on the space and it goes into the warehouse so there's a there's a door there's one man door that swings directly from the one space to the other space um there's also an interior stair inside the office that goes up to the second floor office portion um so there's one door that connects the two spaces okay and along bring can you come down a little more so on what would that be the South part of the southernmost end of the building there's a note there existing um wall to be reconstructed reconstructed what's that mean so it's an existing 2x6 wood framed construct the office area is wood framed that that two-story portion um it looks like it was actually probably a house at one time years ago and then it was converted to office space part of that wall is is rotted out it has water damage um so we want to uh repair the wall uh accordingly so all this different building material would I mean do you know just a curious question was that were were those all like add-ons some some of it's wood some of it's steel some of it's it was built as a whole bunch of different buildings I mean the all at once or was it like added on I think it was built over time because the the warehouse is a prefabricated metal building that has columns that become become the roof Rafters um so that's that's steel and it's prefabricated metal the twostory office space is wood the one-story portion of the office space looks like it's wood with a little bit of Steel and it's got block between that and the warehouse and then the retail portion is got block walls with steel framing so it's it's it's a little hodge podge of different construction types we did an Oprah request and got no less than seven resolutions of approval some from the zoning board and some from the planning board I can't figure out why some were going back dating dating back to when about 45 years dating back to with tin Falls because we didn't have did we no your zoning board and your planning board from 1984 oh 84 okay 1980 I think was the first one done and it just was one after another the last three which were two after 2000 were all with regard to the monopole modifications to the monopole the buildings were were approved over time it I'd say 1981 to 1999 is there a fire suppression sprinklers the building does not have a sprinklers the warehouse part none of it right uh no it doesn't but because of the firewalls and the way it's constructed it's what are the firewalls made of uh they're made of black so between each one even even where the wood is and the yeah between the warehouse and the office there's a so it's firestock with block correct it's got two two stories of block uh construction there and then there's another block wall between there and the car wash um so yes it's it's so if if there's any penetrations on those walls when we do uh repairs we'll make sure that we um we repair those walls as needed to not allow fire travel exactly so that it meets the building right it's worth noting there is no portable Municipal portable water system Supply or sanitary sewer at the site and there will be mhm okay it's forthcoming it's a commitment of the applicant as part of what we're presenting think we're good we're good okay Mr P traffic traffic very fine thank you don't leave [Applause] Mr J Troutman is a traffic expert with mcdna and Ray you were sworn at the last meeting yes credentials please credentials please uh I'm a licensed professional engineer field of specialty is traffic engineering I've been practicing in the field for 37 years conducting traffic studies for various types of developments as well as reviewing traffic studies on behalf of the planning and zoning boards that I represent and uh I have appeared in how Township on numerous occasions over the years and you're licensed in the state of New Jersey as a professional engineer yes where'd you go to school sir uh Lehi University all right we'll accept your credentials thank you you got it thank you chair I think that we should do the presentation as as the outline as originally outlined I'm going to ask if you could so we maybe start with A2 the overall exhibit and when you need the truck circulation plan just let us know when we'll put that up could we go to a21 no Charlie's not here right a21 then a22 will be the one strategy to distract Jen Cross training is very important what year did you graduate from the high 75 okay if you would I'm going to ask if you could in a narrative if you could just just take us through the the site from your perspective as a traffic engineer commenting on the circulation around the the property the Improvement to the circulation and the fire chief's participation in that and if you could also describe how the parking has been amended larger parking stalls created for large Vehicles The increased number of parking stalls the conclusion is that factual presentation got a couple of questions about from you for professional opinions on the uh improvements that have being offered yes uh as you've heard uh we have an existing site we have no plans to expand the traffic intensity there's no additional square footage being added to the site um you do have unfavorable traffic circulation under existing conditions and what I mean by that is that you have that perimeter traffic circulation aisle that loops around behind building too currently terminating in a culdesac um if you look at aerial photography you can see that CLD saac is uh has been filled with vehicles at times um so from a traffic standpoint we find the plan that that's before you uh to be superior in that regard elimination of the C to SAC uh striping of oversized vehicles and that's striping of oversized vehicles parking spaces in that southwest corner uh to get them into spaces and out of that BAC area and then continuing uh complete circulation in a clockwise uh fashion around the entire site so uh improving on-site traffic circulation and also improving parking Supply while not adding any traffic intensity to the site it was a request by Chief talk now that the driveways all driveways be a minimum of 20 ft it's my understanding that will be accommodated on all of the driveways yes and there was a request by Chief Brock now that we do a fire lane striping and he provided a detail I trust that that will be incorporated into the plant also yes the um if you could speak to the the number of parking stalls that exist the number of parking stalls that are proposed the variance relief that is required if you could take us through what I'm going to call something of an anomaly in the ordinance with regard to traffic requirements for car washes yes um the existing parking spaces are 58 it's being increased to 65 so it's a gain of seven um it's still a variant situation the requirement is 105 uh there's a difference of 40 there all 40 of those uh extra required spots are generated by the car wash use the car wash use according to to the code requires 40 parking spaces however as a self-served car wash you have no employee demand that needs a separate parking space and the car wash itself provides for the parking demand uh of the car wash there's no um there's no designated spaces in that car wash area the cars use the Bays you might have a car cued behind in a bay you may have cars at vacuums which are not being countered as parking spaces but that car wash demand is accommodated in that large area of payment and by the bays and the car wash itself Mr Trum can I just before you go further can I just ask a question about that sure So when you say the demand you mean the actual demand not the 40 parking spaces that are required by ordinance correct right so like the physical actual demand of the use can be accommodated in the area that has been identified for queuing that's correct okay thank you a couple points if you would the ordinance has a parking requirement for car washes it's my understanding the ordinance does not distinguish a tunnel style car wash from a self-service Bay Car Wash that's correct so the parking requirement that we're talking about would appear to be more appropriate for a tunnel size tunnel type car wash that's right where you have employees Etc yes and the four Bays that we're talking about exist and the operation that we're talking about exists currently yes it does and it it exists with seven less parking stalls on on the site than the applicant is offering yes there was a question with regard to the impact on the onsite and offsite of 18 tractor trailers traveling on the the site on a monthly basis to be clear it is 18 tractor trailers they will come in and they will go out 18 tractor trailers 18 vehicles per month so the question that the engineer had was the egress of that tractor trailer and the turn radius are you going to are you going to cross both lanes on route nine or are you going to just use the right lane do you have enough turn radius to avoid crossing over and cutting off all the traffic on the way out the plan submitted to the board by midlantic shows the exiting vehicle to go out almost to the center divider to make the right hand turn and stay within the curve lines so that's that's the why we we need you here sir so talk to us yes so uh the the the tractor trailer frequency is extremely low it would would basically be one per weekday I would say so if you have 18 in a month you've got 20 working days in that month I would expect on average you would have one entering tractor trailer a day and then that tractor trailer exiting and the way those movements which occur today the way those movements occur is the traffic signal at West Farms Road provides very generous G gaps in the northbound route n traffic flow so those tractor trailers would be moving out one a day moving out into route nine on those gaps but that's not really answering the question the question is can it move out of the site without going into the middle L well the the the the the plan that's been submitted shows that it would it would potentially sweep in to both Northbound Lanes when it's moving on that Gap now what I will tell you about those programs that simulate those Vehicles is that it's typically a a rolling vehicle with some speed is what is depicted in that exhibit if you have a tractor trailer rolling out of a stop condition on a gap as I've described they are usually able to maneuver that in a tighter fashion than what the what the uh exhibit would depict so I would expect that as is happening today that those movements can safely be made uh that the geometry is adequate and um we did do an investigation I what I try to do is is review in the field is there any evidence of uh problems when these tractor trailers are rolling out of the driveway and if you inspect the existing carb and the existing pavement of that exit driveway there's no visible damage or rollover from tractor trailers not having adequate geometry to to make that movement and and I do think it makes a difference again that if you're relying on just getting one of those out per weekday it's a very low intensity and again can be made uh on those gaps as I described my next question would be can the curve line be reconfigured so that we don't have this encroachment all the way out out to the you know the left hand lane in the Northbound traffic certainly curve lines can be re reconfigured I don't see it as necessary in in in this case um again I think that Prov the existing curb line provides adequate geometry based on my inspection think address the issue it's a problem we could change problem question if we pull the drive straighten it out a Mr Mr zner just shared with me that it is something that he can do and I'm going to ask Mr Troutman to describe what would be required and and the applicant can do it so so it would be an an internal redesign to get that tractor Trail are better aligned so it's not as large of a swing when it hits the exit and that would be accomplished by using some of the uh land that's available adjacent to the vacuums and so you would have more positive internal alignment with that driveway and right now that driveway pushes north towards the Northerly property line you could actually uh make that drive a shift South again towards the vacuum of the uh of the car wash so that you have a more positive alignment for that vehicle as it moves towards the exit and would that result in when ATT tractor trailer exits that they would be able to stay in the the right hand lane yes I think I see where you're talking about that little landscape Island back there that's it CU exiting Vehicles you're almost getting them pointed South first and then you're bringing them back around going north where you can just have it so that they're coming out closer to perpendicular just to make okay correct I think that' be appropriate can I ask a question go ahead if the circulation is clockwise the trucks would be coming around from the second building and then coming back North anyway so if you take out that little area by the vacuum cleaners they would be coming so they're traveling north anyway basically right tractor trailers don't need to go around they're going to go into the dock and then come right back out the same way but that's but I'm saying if we make the tractor trailers go around then they would be traveling in that that right direction they wouldn't have to make a turn I think I would prefer the the realignment and having them come out at the north end where they're you I really don't think you need you want them circulating all the way around the site when they have an easy exit directly out uh it can be accommodated to get them going in the right direction sure Mr ker the the loading ducks that would be used by the tractor trailers if you could maybe take us through no I understand that I get what you're saying I see where yeah getting into the loading dock where where are they where are they where is the track P trail of unloading they're on the North Face of building one so it's the left hand where you see that kind of uh modeled area little off color okay okay right below the four trees that white area not on the not at the top not at the top yeah that's where I was okay that so it's not at the top correct it's where they are now they're in very bad condition but that's where they are now right so the tractor trailer is there for an hour or two it's going to be in that loading dock area so okay so we're amable yes Mr chair I just want to clarify can you point where exactly you're going to alter it is it going to take out any of the existing trees that are over there or just the proposed the landscape well I don't need the landscape but yeah this one's fine where where are you showing to alter as you're coming off of the highway on the driveway the very first thing that you there's a tree that would be on your right shoulder it's that portion of the site that would be modified the driveway the whole driveway would shift to the South so that lines with the highway more so it's hard to see on this one then um I mean you can see it on the aerial there is a large area of lawn that comes out would it go beyond the sign that's currently there this is the whole section talk been taken out and I think that part of the property is uneven too no I don't see a sign in the area we're talking about there is a sign there is a sign I think what we're thinking of is the area that's really like Po a lawn at the moment where we're proposing Landscaping but not further than that and then the curb could actually be pulled from the other side South so that we could uh get some additional Landscaping on the Northern side of the dry I think the concern is she doesn't want to lose the existing trees which are nice right and and same thing on the North side I don't want you to take those uh those shrubs out either lose I think this is something we're going to need to see we would not lose those trees okay it does look like there's plenty of lawn that you wouldn't have to touch the that cluster of trees but yeah the cluster of trees is behind or in line almost with the sign that's currently there still we could make the commitment that the not remove come out is Cherry is there any grading over there like in terms of the pitch of that I because I thought that the pitch of that property was kind of heading downhill it's not significant PR okay I was just curious the whole s does go slightly here we offer that that driveway be redesigned to the satisfaction of your engineers but the end result would require that tractor trailer leaving the site would enter the right hand lane and not the left hand correct Mr P that's that commitments made by your applicant to the board okay statement all right any other questions for the traffic Mr chairman yes can I just get a qualif a better qualification on how we arrived at the parking um I know at the last meeting we talked about 105 spaces and two were going to EV so 103 were required how do we reach that number what's the formula for that for the what the ordinance requires yes it's on you want Lewis Lewis did the calculation you want they basic I mean if I may just to try to so basically what they did was they took the square footage of each individual use type and then there's a table on the first on the cover sheet of the plan set that shows it so they have Warehouse which is one space per 5,000 square fet so they have 700 thou 7,36 Square ft right that requires two parking spaces office is 1 for 300 so they have 6,400 in change that's 22 spaces uh retail is 1 per 150 that's 3,800 Square ft which requires 26 spaces the car wash it says 10 stacking spaces per line there's uh four Bays so 10 stacking I think that's erroneous it should say 40 spaces required um and then they went through the same exercise in building to um which comes out to 105 I think the I think the table Lewis needs to be revised Lewis I think your parking table needs to be revised because your allocation of parking for the car wash is not accurate it should say 40 not 10 yes so that's how you get to the 105 so it should be 40 spaces per the car wash 10 per bed Bay and they only have in the table 10 which is why it's a lower number but that's how they J he pointed out that it is a self- served Car Wash so there's no employees and there's no cars that are staying there I don't have a problem with the parking I'm just saying that per ordinance it requires 40 I think 40 for a parking for a car wash even if it had employees is still a lot of parking spaces that most people don't hang out right they put their car in the queue and then they leave there's 40 at that Garden State Park yes they do water repair so definitely but that's there's an error in the table that's why it's 105 spaces well and also just looking at square footage the car wash being at over just 2,000 having to Garner 40 spaces it's ridiculous I mean it's seems yeah I I think some of the parking and I I think this is something that we're talking about at the planning board when we have these like master plan conversations is that it's time for us to take another look at our parking requirements like we're parking for Black Friday all the time and 90% of the time half the parking spaces are empty so you know it's definitely something that we're aware of and and now especially with the Advent of all the online shopping and people aren't going as often to the physical store it's definitely something that we're looking at okay and your 10 parking spaces for a car Wass is normally for a tunnel type car was not for self-serving one you'll never have 10 people wait in line for a a self-service you know parking are sorry all right so Mr P commitments made to the board that we make that revision to the plan okay I have nothing further of Mr tropman he's available to you all right where's the planner you ready for are we ready for the planner Mr chair I think we are she's entering now okay don't sit down thank you how are you I think I'm sworn from last time you were we accept your credentials thank you chairman all right let's do it let's hear it okay uh so we are here obviously seeking the reason this board has jurisdiction even though this is a very interesting application because all existing uses are on site all existing square footage is on site this is an application where we are asking you to not consider any new uses and not consider any additional square footage on the property but the reason we need a D1 variance is because we have multiple uses on the property and the warehousing use is not a permitted use in the zone so when I look at the definition of warehousing in Howell it talks about those facilities involved and it reads this is right from the definition section of your ordinance those facilities involved in short to longterm long-term storage of bulk materials and products items are brought in and distributed in bulk with little to no material repackaging repurposing or breakup warehousing shall not include fulfillment Warehouse centers so I think we're very much in line with um with what exists on the site and what the township contemplates as a warehouse with that being said though that's not a permitted use in the HD1 zone so while it exists on the site today um it's not a permitted use nor are we allowed to have the multiple permitted uses so that requires the D1 variance Miss beam also asked us to acknowledge the fact that we do have multiple conditional uses on here right we know that the car wash is a conditional use the only conditional use requirement is that it fronts on Route 9 or I think 33 so we certainly comply with that we do comply with the requirements for the auto repair or really Tire craft which is the tire store so we do comply with that the conditional use requirements for the cell tower we do VI at some of those but that relief was granted previously um and that that we have the resolutions for that Mr Pape um had those and provided those so that's the extent of the D variance relief um that we need so we do need to demonstrate to the board that the particular suitability is met um the site exists it's there today and it's operational and functional so I think the board can certainly take notice of the fact that the site is developed as it is as particularly suitable for this type of use um as far as the special reasons statuto we would have to advance one or more purposes in the municipal land use law to meet our positive criteria appr I think that there are four I think in this particular case that we can say and this is a non- inherently beneficial use but I do think we can rely on criteria a here promoting the general welfare and I'm going to get a little bit more into that when I talk about the negative criteria but I can tell the board that I've been keeping track of 10 specific betterments associated with this projects and that's why I think promoting the general welfare is appropriate here criter g talks about a sufficient space in appropriate locations for a variety of uses um you know the LI in sh of the use program is permitted as of right here and it's an existing use I also think criteria M which talks about efficient use of the land the applicant has made this a much uh much more efficient layout and a much uh Superior site than it exists today and as well as criteria I if you had an opportunity to visit the subject property which I did a few times I was actually in it today to go inside and see you know see that one wall that was coming down which in my estimation I could probably kick it down if I was mad enough that it didn't even go to the top of the ceiling I'm not sure how that that came to be there but I don't think that that's going to be a substantial change to the interior of that building so those are the four purposes of the municipal land use law that I think are Advanced by this application um when you're dealing with any variants you have an obligation to look at the negative criteria and the negative criteria is the impact on the public good and the impact on the Zone plan so as I was keeping track through our hearings the 10 betterments that I see associated with this application are the circulation right if you again if you went out to the site you know that you sort of terminate there by um the Mr Happy tent rental you can't get around so the circulation is substantially improved there is no storm water management on the site so we're we're bringing that and we're controlling that that's important while we're not complying with the parking we are adding additional parking spaces and we are adding electronic vehicle charging spaces so that's a benefit um the building let's face it to lack curb appeal is about the nicest way you could say the condition of the existing structures and I understand we're not there yet with Miss beam but we are working working towards that as she and Mr rasi have done on many occasions um the parking lot is is also very very difficult to drive through it's got potholes it's just not in a great repair so we're improving that we are delineating the Environmental sensitive areas which doesn't exist today so now we have a benchmark you know as the board goes forward and if the site comes before you again you have that snap shite in time we're improving the lighting right we're adding LED lights we're adding a formal Landscaping plan um and we're adding the sidewalk and we're bringing uh sore and water utilities to the property so and the resurfacing the parking lot that that was 10 so when you look at the negative criteria right and you have to balance that's what we do then next step is we balance and do do the benefits of the application outweigh any detriment right it doesn't say um planning board or zoning board hold the applicant to a standard of proof where there's no detriment just that the benefits of the grant of the variance outweigh any detriment and here um and that will have no substantial detriment to the public good or to the Zone plan so here I think you really only have uh the betterments associated with this application I think this is probably uh a textbook negative criteria case I think the board can certainly be very comfortable that the applicant meets its burden of proof with regard to the positive and negative criteria and as far as the master plan the master plan which was reexamined last year in Howl in 2023 talks specifically about encouraging Redevelopment of existing commercial areas so I think that this is an existing commercial area where all of the uses aren't exactly aligned with what's permissible in the HD1 they are existing on the site and substantially aligns with the HD1 and those 10 better um certainly um outweigh any detriment in my opinion I'd like you to think of an 11th betterment few minutes before you came up here we made a commitment to redesign that driveway so that there'll be a more perpendicular connection to the highway so all vehicles tractor trailer and other vehicles will be entering the highway on a on a perpendicular can you add that to your betterment and make it number 11 sure and then we can bring H in as positive criteria as well promoting the free flow of traffic because that's definitely a betterment as well thank you you're welcome thank you Miss Kavon you're welcome Jen um so you need the D variance for the warehouseing of itself and you need a d variance for the multiple principal buildings and uses on a single lot is the testimony that you've provided with respect to the positive and negative criteria um applicable to both or is there a separate testimony for the multiple principal uses no it would be essentially the same testimony because those uses are existing I think when you look at the fact that we're not introducing another we're not asking you to consider this application and consider hey in addition to what's existing on the site today we would like you to also consider one more use here so um it is all holistic testimony together um to address both the D1 for the non-permissible use as well as the D1 for the multiple use so I I don't take exception to I mean the free flow of traffic is a bit much for me but you know cuz yeah you're you're preventing a tractor trailer from creating a dangerous situation I don't know that free flow of traffic is a goal of zoning that we're advancing I mean we're preventing a safety problem um but I do agree with the other four goals of zoning that were put forth I do um agree with the betterments as we call them um I I just want to ask a couple questions so like to your knowledge have there been issues with track conflicts between passenger vehicles coming to the site for the the small retail space Andor the car wash um conflicting with any vehicles and tractor trailers going towards the back to the distribution area not to my knowledge and now that we have circulation around the entirety of the building as was requested by the official I think if there were conflicts on site which I'm not aware that there were um the opportunity for those will be minimized by this application so I that being said I I don't take exception I mean I think everyone here is well aware of the condition of that area and that you know improving the facades and the the parking lot and the drive AES and realigning that um driveway to create a safer condition on the highway way I think are all very strong positive um items that absent this application I mean the site could continue to operate as is so absent the application coming forth to to spiff up the site I don't you know I think it would stay in the tired condition that it is currently so you know and and as I said you know I I've been I used to work across the street basically and shie works across the street now and you know it's not a hight traffic center you don't see a lot of queuing cars waiting to get out of that driveway you also don't see a lot of traffic stopped on Route 9 with cars trying to get into the driveway um so I think based upon the testimony provided the limited amount of tractor trailer activity if we're talking about you know one per week day I think it's pretty minimal um so I don't take exception to the testimony that was put forth thank you JN board members not for a other question ask the ask the question the 18 trucks is is that a floor number I mean we we've heard testimony that obviously the applicant wants to expand and grow his business not structurally but you know as far as how much product he's going to be that's not the testimony the testimony was that if if he grows he'll either be back here asking for relief or he'll move so my question was was 18 trucks a floor or ceiling that's a ceiling number Maxim it's the commitment it's said they basically he Mr Pap read into the record 18 or less tractor trailers per month so that's a ceiling and we're prepared to have that memorialized public let's go to public motion open to public second all in favor I IA the board will now be open to the public if you have any comment please come up and state your name and your address please motion close second all in favor I we're closing to public e the board will now be closed to the public Mr P very briefly Mr chair I think that the testimony of all the experts has made quite clear that your applicant has purchased a property that is tired that your applicant is not expanding the buildings but the applicant is making improvements throughout the site there aesthetic improvements environmental improvements and safety improvements we would ask that the board I know that they heard the testimony um I would ask that the board consider the application presented to you favorably Mr P my question to you before I ask the pleasure of the board was this the former site of the window man that you the clients do not believe that it will Okay window man all kinds of signs which we can't discern all over the building but none to say window no I just remember always driving past it um it's the next building it's the next building oh it's the next building okay all right okay all right so what's the pleasure of the board here Mr caner Mr chairman I'd like to make a motion that we Grant the use variant and preliminary and final major site plan requested by the applicant and Mr chair I'd like to piggy back on Mr caner there and just bring up a couple items uh the sidewalk for Route N9 just you know to reiterate we also talked about a third G trash enclosure last time I just want to make sure that's still on in the uh project I'm happy to hear about the resurfacing of the parking lot that's a great commitment and to adjust the exit for the trucks with all that I'd like to Second Mr Canter's motion okay we got a motion in a second isae roll call please Mr burillo no Mr caner uh give me like two seconds just to comment on this you know we we talk in Howell New Jersey about the warehousing and we also talk about the dilapidated buildings and the abandoned buildings on Route 9 I think as Miss cfone stated we have to measure the negative criteria against the positives in this case there certainly are negatives with the truck traffic um but I feel absent any public comment on this property you know we're getting a nicer property on Route n and it'll it you know we're going to have to put up with a little bit of truck traffic and they've done everything they can to alleviate the negative impact of the truck so I vote Yes Mr Hughes yes Mr merens I'm AIG big proponent of Route n and keeping the traffic out of our residential areas um at the last meeting I didn't think this was going to I was going to stir My Views towards this application there are concerns about the traffic but it is a state highway there is more positive criteria the planner and both planners uh kind of put me over the top so I'm going to vote Yes as well Mr Rosco yes Mr Ryan I think when you look at what has been discussed today is a little bit different than what we talked about at the last meeting um certainly there's a stronger commitment to move forward in all the right directions on this and based on the preponderance of all the facts I'm going to vote Yes and miss scotson so I'm going to concur with what both Mr caner and Mr meron said however I am still very concerned about the use in that warehouse I'm also concerned that I'm not I don't think it was clear enough about any traffic studies with regard to that intersection uh where you know whether that the accidents and some of the issues that have taken place in that intersection have been satisfied um the truck traffic concerns me greatly um even if it's 18 that being said I also want to see route nine and based on what they've shared I concur with that so I'm going to say yes for only that reason application is approved here's where I usually say Mr chairman and members of the board but I'll wait for Mr chairman to be seated Mr chairman and members of the board on behalf of the applicant the applicant professionals and person I thank you for the time spent on the application and good night thank you Mr P we're going to continue on okay yeah no it's not applications before the board the clock in the back is that right next application is ba 24-1 how medical investors LLC this is a use variance and preliminary final major site plan with bulk variances description application of how medical investors as applicant and owner seeking approval to construct a 65550 ft three-story medical office building with Associated site improvements within the HD1 Zone the improvements will include a 398 space B parking lot driveway sight lighting Landscaping building signage a trash Refuge enclosure retaining walls above ground infiltration basins and an underwat underground storm water management Basin on block 143 lot 23.1 US Highway 9 North this application was scheduled for September 23rd 2024 and rescheduled to November 2024 the expiration date is tonight November 24 November 4 2024 sir who do we have in front of us good evening uh my name is Jan Waters I'm a partner in The Firm of Bathgate wagonner wolf in Lakewood I represent the applicant um how medical investors the property subject of this application consists of approximately 13 acres uh and is located along Route 9 North um somewhat north of Casino Drive is and is in the HD Highway um hv1 Highway development Zone and the property is currently uh undeveloped by way of brief history of the site in 2008 the planning board uh granted final site plan approval to a prior owner for the construction of a 62,000 squ foot furniture store that was never built and the approval was Grant was um uh abandoned in 2019 um the owner came back for a and was granted preliminary site plan approval um and variance relief and Woodlands management approval uh to construct a mixed use Shopping Center Plaza for stores and restaurants um the shopping plaza uh never received final approval and the uh preliminary approval has been abandoned the property is now owned by a new owner uh the applicant in this case and um uh is proceeding with uh this application the application uh the applicant is uh the New Jersey arm of randina healthc care real estate who is a recognized developer of healthc care facilities uh throughout the country uh the applicant is seeking preliminary and final major site plan approval with variances and design waivers to to develop the property in a joint venture with RWJ Barnabas Healthcare uh with a new three-story 65,500 squ foot medical facility which will provide Urgent Care Primary Care Specialty Care with a focus on Orthopedic Services Diagnostic Imaging and Ambulatory Surgery uh Center the medical fa facility is a permitted use in the HD1 Zone however the applicant will be seeking the following variances uh applicant will need a a d variance relief from um 55d 7670 D6 to permit a structure which is greater than uh in height more than 10% uh or 10 foot of the maximum height permitted in the HD1 Zone the professionals will explain in further detail detail the necessity for that requested D variance in addition the applicant is also seeking bulk sea variances they are Paving areas encroaching in buffer areas a heated service meter enclosure is located in the front yard fence exceeds 8 foot a monument sign is 10 foot in the RightWay and um in addition the applicant will be seeking design waivers for light intensity no loading d dock uh a less than required parking and a flat roof and with that I'd like to call my first witness may I use the table you may use the table Mr Lord thank you Mr chairman who do we have here my first witness I'd like to call is Eric Carney who is president and chief executive officer of Mammoth Medical Center who will be testifying on behalf of the applicant okay can we have a sworn in please you swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth to hold truth and nothing but the truth to help you go I do please state your name for the record and spell your Lives Eric Carney c a r Nui the witness is sworn Mr thank you Mr Carney thank you um um sir I'd like to ask Mr Carney a question or two of course so what your proposing here is a full-fledged medical facility that re with oxygen backup generator the whole thing as an emergency urgent care type Center or just a day operation we're proposing as an Outpatient Center that will function Monday through Friday from 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 P.M there would be an urgent care center but it's very typical the Urgent Care Centers you see in most strip malls um throughout MTH County okay so not not an emergency room it doesn't have an Associated emergency room with it okay got it just try understand the the concept chairman that that will be part of Mr uh carne's testimony as I go through so yes just trying to get an idea that's fine okay go ahead and and this is an adjunct of Mammoth Medical Center which one is that in Mammoth County so I'm currently the CEO of Mammoth Medical Center in Long Branch and also Mammoth Medical Center in southern campus in Lakewood okay gotta and we're part of the RWJ barbas Health System you are okay yeah thank you thank you Mr Lords U thank you Mr uh chairman uh Mr conne will you please State your position again with the mammoth Medical Center thank you thank you I'm currently the president CEO of Mammoth Medical Center in Long Branch and MTH Medical Center Southern campus in Lakewood OH will you describe for the board the relationship between our WJ Barnabas Healthcare and the applicant so we are it's essentially a joint venture between R ofj baras health and R Rina Health Healthcare real estate um has um was mentioned is a national developer it's also our longtime partner in RWJ BS Health us helps us develop these outpatient centers um so recently we've opened a center with rendina at the Mammoth Mall it's called the an Vogal Family Care and Wellness Center um we've opened um similar alpan centers in Toms River and we're currently working on one in Oldbridge as well so in in to further uh respond to the Chairman's question could you f in more detail describe the medical facility which is subject to this application sure it'll be a three-story building approximately 65,000 Square F feet um it'll have the services included will be Urgent Care um so this is not emergency room level care but for individuals who need to be seen um and can't get an appointment with their primary care physician they can come to the Urgent Care Center to be seen we'll also have Primary Care so Internal Medicine Physicians there we'll have a number of Specialists outpatient Specialists U primarily focused on Orthopedics but there'll be other specialists in the building as well there'll be a DI Diagnostic Imaging Center so essentially an outpatient radiology center as well as an outpatient surgery center how how large would that facility be so they'll all be included within the facility um square footage I I don't have the square footages for each specific unit yet um but but it's significant I would understand right it'll be a significant portion of the building those typically are larger the footprint of those particular those maches services are larger yeah okay Mr Cory how many tenants or practices do you uh anticipate in the facility so we anticipate about five to seven in total um the majority of will be very closely aligned with RWJ Barnabas Health um but there is the potential to have a a private Physician Group or two in the in the center depending on on ultimately how the services shape out so you anticipate somewhere around five to seven separate practices in total in total and what is the number of employees you anticipate at the facility so we anticipate 120 employees um at at maximum when they Center is operational and uh we describe ask a question sure and what is that based on if you don't have any tenants currently like where are you getting the 120 from so we're modeling after what we anticipated from a surgery center and a diagnostic daging center um we do have Partners uh that we work with in those for those areas um who've given us estimates based on what we anticipate and then also we've looked at the footprint and the typical medical practice and just using our benchmarks of what we know for those sides okay so you will be performing outpatient surgery there will be an outpatient surgery center that's our intention okay um Mr carer what are the anticipated hours of operation so we anticipate 6:00 AM to 8:00 P.M 6 a.m. is typically we don't anticipate the entire facility operational during those hours but typically with surgery centers they tend to start earlier in the day to accept patients so that that'll be the earliest program that opens up and the Urgent Care will typically run later um because that's when people tend to need those Services I know this question will come come up probably by the boards uh but since this is an Ambulatory Care Center what do you anticipate the potential ambulance traffic to be um so we do have experience with ambulatory centers and and different communities um there is always the risk that a patient who is either undergoing a procedure or seeing a physician potentially would have an issue with NE we need to call 911 it would be a 911 facility um it happens very infrequently but there is the potential um the biggest concern is always around Ambulatory Surgery what we we typically do is there's a classification it's called an ASA classification it's the American Association of anesthesiologists and they they risk stratify individuals based on the potential for having an un un anticipated outcome in surgery and so this surgery center will operate on ASA one and two class patients only which would be the lowest possible class um anything higher than two typically would go to a hospital where you would anticipate patients having a potential um negative outcome during surgery will there be a helicopter pad on top of the roof there will not okay no it's not that kind of facility no it's not in the the um the incidence of of needing a 911 service is very very uh rare in these types of facilities Miss Carney would you please describe for the board what you believe to be the benefits that this Med medical facility will bring to the community from my perspective it's it's access um what's changed in healthc care delivery over the last five to seven years is is moving away from destination centers where communities have to come to a hospital to get all the services that they need um Healthcare Providers have been working and putting the services that our communities need into the community directly um it does two things one it makes it eliminates a barrier from an experience standpoint for any of you who have come to a hospital it's not uh not usually a very comfortable of of experience um often difficult to navigate often very challenging um the second piece of it is um it's also a distance that people have to drive from their home Community to go get care and the third piece is uh about cost quite frankly it is much less expensive to provide care in these settings than it is to provide them in an acute care hospital so they ulatory centers like this allow us to offer Health Care to our community much at a much lower cost okay uh thank you I have no further questions of Mr Carney unless the board has some questions well you say that you're going to 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 P.M if you're required have a patient that requires to be there later if you're if Radiology is back up and you want to do imaging till 10 p.m. is there an option to do that we don't anticipate typically Alpa imaging centers do not operate that way it's a very very regimented schedule um so we would anticipate running this Center exactly the same way um with surgery there's always the risk that patient comes out of surgery and requires a longer recovery when these incidents do happen at at freestanding surgery centers it's not uncommon it'll be a requirement to have transfer agreement in place for the surgery center that that patient would then have to be brought via ambulance from the center to a hospital for follow so the patient would not be there overnight no okay any questions just a quick one okay what would the maximum number of patients be on site in any given time you mentioned this 120 employees I'm not I don't have a definitive answer on the number of patients at any at any given time okay with the parking lot does does the parking lot typically get full at these centers I think we'll have a an expert testifying on on TR on parking we will uh that'll give it our traffic expert will better explain the traffic flow and the parking requirements but um uh to comment on uh comment that was made on a prior application where your parking requirements all often times in anticipate Black Friday every day um no with this facility even at the size uh the required parking of 498 uh spaces is just not or 400 and some odd spaces is not it you would never hit that ever thank you would all the would all the um so urgent care primary care patient Specialty Care Radiology is is it all 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. no those uh typical medical office uh physician practices with traditionally open at usually eight more of an 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. timeline the surgery center would typically run from a 6:00 a.m. to 6 p.m. imaging centers could could be anywhere in that typically more of a 9 to5 type all right so it's the outpatient surgery that's 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. um and I would say the Urgent Care Center is another center with typically open up yeah urgent cares have very low traffic at 9:00 a.m. but they tend to ramp up afternoon so the timeline for that would be more extended in evening okay thank you and this is Monday through Friday no Saturday hours correct I I don't think we do not anticipate weekend hours so let's say a pediatrician wants to have an office space in there my experience pediatricians are open on a Saturday so the reason I'm asking you this is that you're saying 6 to8 Monday through Friday that will wind up in a resolution if there are situations where maybe an urgent care or a pediatrician's office or something like that in this facility that would utilize Saturday hours perhaps asking for Saturday hours while you're here would be a better scenario than having to come back to get the hours amended later right I appreciate the cross check m i I would for this facility the flexibility because it's a healthcare facility to operate seven days a week is uh is very appropriate I appreciate cross check seven days a week yes I mean I I still again on Route n but I mean some so like okay it's good um so my question would be then on Radiology you would do nuclear medicine as well so we do not anticipate doing outpatient uh nuclear medicine testing in the center it would be traditional MRI seat CAT scan Diagnostic Radiology as well as ultrasound okay but pet scans nuclear pet scans do have a fa got it questions no no okay Mr Lord thank you Mr Corney um my next witness I'd like to um call our professional engineer Christian RO with l engineering and environmental Sciences Services Andy do you swear the testimony you give will be the truth to tell truth nothing Chu to I do say your name for the record spell your last sure it's Christian roach r c with Langan engineering l n Gan Mr roach would you please State your qualifications sure I have bachelor's degrees in civil engineering and business from Lehi University as well as a master's degree in civil engineering ing from North Carolina State most appropriately for this board though I have a elementary school degree from gribling elementary as well as a middle school degre you licensed in the state of New Jersey sir I am okay and it's current it is current and I've been practicing Land Development for about 20 years now okay so we accept your credentials sir thank you uh Mr Rose did you or others under your direction prepare all the engineering plans and Exhibits presented to the board in this application we did would you please describe the proposed this medical facility to the board based on the plans you submitted sure and I if you don't mind going to the exhibits I think it was a24 we ended up with yes Miss beam's controlling that tonight what are we doing 82 that's it the merged exhibits thank you so so the project site we're to talk about this evening it's identified as block 143 lock 23.0 on the Township tax map it's approximately 13.1 acres and it's generally Bound by Route 9 to the West the Manasquan River to the South small branch which is a tributary to mquan River to the East and the villages to the north one thing you'll notice as you look at the aerial is that about 50% of the site is occupied by wooded areas presently and the remaining 50% of the site was cleared pre previously based on the aformentioned previous approval our project this evening is generally limited to the area of the site that was previously C cleared by the previous developer um just two other things I'll note with the existing conditions right now there is a gravel driveway um which is a right in right out off of Route nine and then the entirety of the site is within the HD1 Highway development Zone and Miss beam if you don't mind going down one PDF perfect thank you the next exhibit is just a colored or rendered version of your overall site plan that was submitted as part of our site plan application package what the applicant is the proposing construct on the property is a three-story medical office building with a ground floor footprint of approximately 21,800 Square ft which provides a total of 65,500 gross square feet of medical office space we've located the building in the proposed southern area of the site the vast majority of the proposed parking to the north access to the project is going to be provided by a right in right out driveway off of rout 9 North and I'll note that we just recently obtained our New Jersey Department of Transportation major access permit for the project as well as the approval of this access point with that um a very popular Topic in Howell we are doing sidewalks along Route nine that was part of the do approval those sidewalks will provide access from the r 9 Frontage up into the site where we have a pedestrian sidewalk surrounding the building as well as some pedestrian sidewalks within the parking area from a overall parking perspective the township ordinance requires one parking stall per 150 square ft of medical office space if you do the math on the 65550 Square ft and the one stall per 150 we have a parking requirement of 43 37 parking stalls once we take into account our EV parking credit of 16 EV stalls that parking requirement is reduced to 421 stalls whereas we're proposing 398 parking stalls so we are requesting a waiver on the parking requirement and our traffic engineer is going to provide variance oh within 20% yeah so we're agreed it's a waiver okay and our traffic engineer will provide some justification along with our planner for that later on this evening um from an ada8 parking perspective we're proposing nine ada8 stalls which meets the ada8 parking requirements along the building Frontage and from a geometric perspective with the parking we're fully complying with the ordinance relative to the stall width and depth which is a 9ot wide stall 19 ft deep 25 foot wide Drive aisles within the parking area and then a 30 foot wide Drive aisle for emergency vehicles on those Drive AES immediately adjacent to the building perimeter and and and access for the assisted van medical vans that are showing up and dropping off and that's corrected we do have the uh Ada van stalls um there's two of those which comply with the requirements for Ada parking um from a loading and trash perspective we anticipate that trash operations will be handled at the Southeastern corner of the building that's the rear portion or the area furthest away from r n that area is going to be surrounded by a masonry enclosure which will be 8ot high I think there were some comments from the planner um regarding that enclosure we have no objection to complying with those aformentioned comments from a a loading perspective we anticipate the vast majority of deliveries are FedEx types deliveries the site's been designed to handle small siiz box trucks but we anticipate those deliveries would be somewhat infrequent and when we do have those deliveries we anticipate that they would be done in off peak hour so for example early morning or later in the day as a result of that we're requesting a waiver to not have a dedicated loading zone we anticipate the drive AIS to the east of the building again that's the rear side of the building would be utilized to temporarily store the box truck for short duration while that unloading would take place storm water management the storm water management design um has been done in accordance with both the township and the state requirements we're meeting the requirements for water quality water quantity and groundwater recharge through the proposed Construction of a bio retention Basin along the front edge of Route 9 an infiltration Basin at the rear of the site and then below grade infiltration Basin beneath a small portion of the parking lot area that storm water management design has already been approved by the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection we received our flood Hazard area permits and Wetland permits about 3 to four weeks ago which approved the storm water management design um Mr juren did have some minor comments on the storm water I'll put on the record I have no objection to complying with his comments they were highly technical in nature and I will not bore you with them for 45 minutes here this evening unless anyone wants to take a a deeper dive into those site utilities are going to be provided off of Route 9 jcpnl is going to be providing electric service engine natural gas will provide gas and then this is one of the rare areas of the township where New Jersey American Water provides both Water and Sewer um sewer is going to be connected with a lateral directly out to round nine and then we are proposing a water main extension on New Y about, 1400 ft to connect to the nearest New Jersey American water line which is just to the north of w Fish Market um and with that we will be proposing a hot box in the or I should say adjacent to the main access point um for those of you who don't know a hot boxes if you drive down route nine the closest one I could find was in the U-Haul facility it's a box that serves as a meter enclosure for New Jersey American Waters equipment unfortunately it's a requirement and it's a requirement that we have to place the hot box as close as we can to our fronting property line and as a result of that we are requesting a variance to allow for the accessory structure um within the front yard setback it's the small shaped rectangle I think you guys can see it up there um we are proposing some Evergreen screening to try and block it from the public roadway it's not the most attractive element um but it's a water company requirement from a landscape oh there you go thank you from a landscaping perspective we are proposing 130 new trees um with the minimum removal of around 19 trees the remov of the 19 trees I mentioned earlier that the vast vast majority of our proposed development was Within in the previously cleared footprint the removal of the 19 trees is really to allow for a new storm water outfall to the Manos Squan River um and I I'll go over quickly some of the landscape comments received but the the main takeaway is we have no objection to complying with the landscape comment letter um the primary buffer in the northern portion of the site between the villages and our project we had shown a series of Evergreens and a series of ornamental trees there was a comment in the planning and the landscape letter about potentially considering a burm and a fence to meet Township requirements we have no objection to doing that here this evening so we're going to add the BM we're going to add the fence to be fully compliant in that regard the only deviation we're asking for on the Landscaping is a waiver to allow for a contribution to the tree fund rather than doing all of the offset plantings on site and it's a little bit of a unique situation I'll try and explain it the best I can but the previous developer had a tree clearing fee based on putting back trees on site and they never met that obligation so if you started from scratch with just our application we would have enough trees to offset for our 19 trees coming out but when you total in what the previous developer did not plant we have a little bit of a deficit and we'll work that out with the previous guy but from the Township's perspective we will make you whole and pay the remaining tree clearing fees so I'll move on to site lighting unless there's any questions on that we are proposing 19 new LED fixtures those will be 3,000 Kelvin they'll be mounted at a height of 24 ft probably most importance we're not proposing any spill over from those light fixtures onto adjacent properties and we're only requesting one waiver on the lighting which deals with the maximum average lighting level across the site we're meeting all the minimum level requirements the ordinance requires a maximum average of 0.5 foot candles whereas we have a average of 1.1 in our parking areas however the the applicant is willing to put in timers as requested by the board so we don't have any spill over of those lights during late late night hours we would just request that we're able to light areas for security purposes and then I'll wrap up just by talking about the site signage on the opposite side of you speak up because we can barely hear you so I can guarantee you all the way in the back can't hear anything what was the lighting hours um the commentary is we we work with the Professionals for Lighting hours as far as dimming um from a site safety perspective it's going to be something we want done full-time but as should get further back into the parking lot less utilized areas we can work out hours with the Professionals for the uh the site signage I'll let the architect talk about the signage on the building but we are proposing a monument sign to the north of the proposed access drive that Monument sign meets all Dimension requirements but we are asking for a variance relative to the setback of the sign whereas the town trip requires a 20 foot setback we're proposing a 10ft setback and the rationale for that is really just on how far our property line is setb back from the route 9 curb line the property line is 43 feet back so our sign would be 53 feet back um which is why we're requesting a deviation in that requirement so comparatively other sites along Route 9 have the same scenario correct yes they do um and yet they manag to comply with the setback for the signage so I'm not like I I don't necessarily think we should grant that relief just because like I think that they can comply and and absence some legitimate rationale like the sign can't be seen that's one thing but the fact that you have a large rideway that's a situation that we deal with up and down Route n almost every property so I you know to me it should be set back to 20 feet that's that's a safety issue it's not the hill I'm going to die on we'll set it back 20 ft all right perfect thank you so Jan do you want me to go over to variances or do you want Christine when she comes up here to I mean I think that the variances that I have that need to be addressed is the height of the building which I think Mr Waters you indicated in your opening yes um the buffer relief which um you know we're going to we're going to have to go through there's a number of them related to the buffers and then I have fences and walls um and the issue is that the fences wall section of our ordinance are treated exactly the same it's the same section so um you have a retaining wall of 9 ft along the infiltration Basin and you need relief for that it should not exceed 6 feet um so I would suggest that maybe you go through the retaining wall and the need for the retaining wall because I'm sure that the reason that it's the height that it is is that you need it for whatever grading um but I think the balance of them you can leave for Christine to do okay so I'll touch on the the need for Rel for a retaining wall at the very top of your screen where we have a sand layer that's an infiltration Basin and the majority of that wall is less than 8 ft in height but we have about a 40ft stretch which exceeds 8 ft the reason we have that retaining wall in the first place is because we're trying to minimize any type of impact on the existing trees within that area and that's also a reparan zone for the tributary that's the purpose of the wall it's not highly visible and that's why we have 9 ft okay I Chris how much did you say that wall was you know the above the 8ot limit it there was a 40 foot stretch 40 foot okay any other further questions of Mr Rose board members yeah we're good Mr Lord thank you the lab work is going to be done on site or is that gonna be go offsite for and and then reported I call Mr Carney back Mr carne yeah just lab lab work will be done offsite it'll be offsite you know primarily um there are some practices that have small facilities like Lab Core where they'll have one or two people but uh the majority probably will be sent off site okay how will medical waste be handled in the facility uh I can have Mr Carney come in testify to that but basically the same way medical waste is with any normal doctor's office this is not going to produce any medical waste in excess of what you would normally find in an orthopedic practice or uh but it will be disposed of through the licensed medical disposal U um companies that they currently use to so each tenant in the building will be responsible for their own medical waste and keeping the documentation yeah whoever is in charge of the space um whether it be ambulatory care or uh a specialized practice they would be handling the medical now that may be coordinated through um our WJ Barnabas overall so that they make available one one contractor um but that that's basically the way it's going to be handled okay and I know Mr carne didn't touch on it and I just came to me after he had testified will there be a pharmacy on on on site I don't believe that they sure and also correct anything that I might have said in no I think you're your your statements were uh were were very accurate um there will be no uh on-site Pharmacy there okay um some of the programs will have Pharmaceuticals that will be delivered directly Surgery Center as an example that would be handled through a licensed carrier would deliver um deliverer any pharmaceu so will they be pain pain management at this facility so in the context of not a pain management center but in the context of pain management through a surgical program there would be MRI knee little torn uh you know topical injection that type of stuff um very possible we won't be doing sedation procedures in the radi Suite so we will not be performing uh MRIs under sedation um that is much more suited for a hospital location but in the surgery center as an example there will obviously be uh anesthesia provided um both minimum anesthesia as well as general anesthesia okay so all protocols for Narcotics handling will be followed by the tenant that's using them absolutely the Center Surgery Center will be licensed uh by the state of New Jersey and we'll have to meet all the requirements of license surger Center just to add uh to Mr C's testimony um I I don't think you want to confuse some of the specialized primary or other specialized primary care or other specialized practices Orthopedic for example with pain control cters which are specific practices dealing with pain management that involve a a use of a panoply of drugs and other I don't think that particular type of practice is contemplated u in this facility are you going to would you be willing to make that a condition of approval that there would be none I don't know why we would want to I I agree and that's I think why he's asking the question oh you know the questions the questions come up because over the last 30 years you know living here in Hell we've had to travel up to Edison right way out to y for these little things that needed to be addressed right and uh you know we don't have anything per se other than having go to Central State or down to Lakewood to Kimble and you know it it was or the Jersey Shore so Mr explained there are various degrees of pain centers there are pharmaceutical pain centers where patients who primarily get prescribed narcotics as an example to manage their pain that is not a service we anticipate having in this facility however through the surgery center with a large focus on Orthopedics there's very possible that there's pain management centers that are more procedural lioc cane shots and stuff like that which would be very typical for an in practice for a phys or for within a surgery okay and also to U add to miss Bean's comments um one of the reasons why we would not want to limit restrict practices in the resolution is while uh they contemplate certain particular practices now um this facility is for the benefit of the community and as the chairman just pointed out there could be needs in the community that are not being met that in the future uh RW J Barnabas may decide to satisfy this facility so um we wouldn't want to have any kind of limitation like that Mr Garin I have no further question okay JN I I have a I have a couple for the engineer all right thank you Mr Connie um namely we had recommended in our letter that the trash enclosure be constructed of masonry block I thought that's what I heard him say right I just want to it yeah for the record let them testify Mr ro we're bringing me back just getting my steps in but yes okay and looking at your plan there's one small enclosure for 65,000 Square fet I I'm questioning the sizing of the enclosure because you could have you said that there could be five practices Plus an Urgent Care Plus an Ambulatory Care Plus so you know that's a lot of you know care a lot of care correct putting cast on and all that other stuff there's going to be garbage yes and recycling probably the best example I can give is the facility we just did with the same group at the Mammoth Mall in eatown has the same size facility based on a similar square footage if not slly larger um and we just organize the private trash provider the pickups to make sure we're not in a scenario at a deficit so if you have to have that private trash roller you know every two days that can be arranged okay just because like unlike the mall where you have a lot more area to perhaps put another enclosure here based upon how you're designing it there's not like this vast amount of pavement to put additional enclosures um and then the last thing and I think it kind of ties into the buffer but your drainage the outlet structure goes all the way basically or the to the almost to the property line is there so that means that the grading for that and the structure itself are in our 50ft buffer which because right behind this is the villages um is there the ability ility to pull that out of the buffer because that is not permitted the grading for it and the structure itself is not allowed in the buffer yeah to clarify when you say when you say the buffer I believe the plan show if not they're very close to showing none of the outlet structure or storm conveyance type equipment within the 50ft buffer on the North side right I'm not talking about the north side I'm talking about the east side which is residentially zoned so this the it's that that property line is coincident with the villages which is Zone residential so that whole area where your outlet goes out also necessitates a 50 foot buffer we've identified that in our letter so you're talking about the overall outfall point Miss beam to the to the manisan river that I I get it I'm just saying this is within 50 ft that structure right there and the grading is within 25t of the property line which we don't allow it has to be the grading for it and the structure itself need to be out of the 50 ft because just because you can see the houses along the north side that zoning that that zoning wraps around your your easterly property line as well and that well they're asking for relief for that too yeah and that continues on the southern property line as well no because the Southern Property Line a buts commercial and is in the it's in the HD1 Zone I mean if you go even to the cover sheet of the pl set it shows very clearly the zoning map where your site is and that the residential wraps around the Northerly property line and the easterly property line that's my out that's theer I think what is that the buffer wood no it's over here I've seen this I go to mon Park she like wow look at that look nice yeah you got to have them I've been begging for this for the last 20 years be going up show that definitely something that you should look at I mean I don't know Mr chair how late you're planning on going this evening and maybe this might be a good place to stop well we can go another 20 minutes or so if you want I mean that's up to you I you know we have two more witnesses I think do we want to hear them you want to stop here I mean I I think we should get this issue vetted out um but we still have traffic which I'm assuming you guys are going to have a Ser we're going to need exploration of time extension we have we have three Witnesses you have three Witnesses left traffic and um just go phone yeah so I mean this maybe sounds like a pretty decent stopping point then all right next meeting the 25th yes on the 25th I have three application scheduled well two and an extension of time so it's up to Mr woter are they two new applications yes so he we could put them first yeah they could go first yeah chairman yeah can can I just indul asked for the Indulgence of the board um I understand about the time and I I understand this may be a good stopping point for the engineer and um we can put off the planner and and the traffic expert but the architect has flown here from Tennessee and if we could and it is testimony won't that be that long if we could I don't know I have some questions okay all right I mean the height of the building is of particular concern Jen this have you seen the one up at MTH I have and it's big yeah but it's on a mall property it's a very different scenario you know it's and it's that whole site is being developed where where on this map is the section that you're raising question like where that corner is if you take that that Bas end and you make a diagonal Mark towards the corner top right cor yeah you don't have a pointer do you I don't no I do here we go where come on back here to the corner of the property line This Way Mr Ro is going to show you when you say buffer though Miss are you referring to foot the the residential zone is not just on the Northern property line it wraps around so you're going to need to show us where that stops I think it stops on the corner yeah and how that impacts your outfall so I'm going to need an exhibit that shows that that you're not because not only is it not is it just the structure itself but it's any grading related to getting that structure there um also cannot be within the 50 fo so we need to see that on an exhibit yeah okay I think we're clear of it but I'll do the exhibit okay all right so so Jen if we lower the building can we make it wider to maintain the square footage and put a a second deck on the parking like I know it looks like a lot of room based upon the thing but they there's environmental constraints like they're already encroaching into the stream Corridor buffer from the township so can we put a second level on the parking and short to to make up for it and use some of that parking area I mean to spread the building out a little bit Podium parking is about 35,000 space so that's a huge financial issue but yeah they can put Podium parking and then widen out the building in the developed area I mean to expensive ende for okay I mean I think the short answer is that 58.3 and I know what you're going to say that the building itself goes to 45 but the screen on top go to 58.3 but it still all counts towards your height no we understand but I think the Board needs to understand that we're not talking about occupied space it doesn't matter I know it doesn't but it's still the Mechanicals that the massing of the building understand I can tell you when the U-Haul went up that's right down the street from this which is nowhere near 58 ft High the general sentiment was holy mackerel that's gigantic so this is going to be now almost 20 feet higher than that so I'm telling you that it's too high and you guys are going to have to come up with a plan to lower the height because especially in this section of town here most of the things are two stories they're not even three stories when the U-Haul went in at three stories we were like that's a big building you know if you were in a different section of Route n closer to Southern Southern H where we have a lot more larger scale development we have the fountains which is four stories and other things and now the Office Buildings south of lanes Mill Road are allowed to be four stories um that might be a different scenario but in this section of town you're talking about twostory buildings in in many instances one story buildings so I I think you guys are going to have to reink so 45 ft is the height plus 10% 492 yeah and they're at 58.3 okay all right so that's definitely something and then in addition to that there were like large sections of the floor plans and this is just for your edification moving forward because I do think things are going to have to change there are large areas in the building that are just not designated for anything which causes some angst especially when you're asking for Relief on the parking like what exactly is going in those areas that are not designated for anything because there's big spaces on the on the architectural floor plans that aren't identified as anything so I you know I don't necessarily know that we want to you know now we're rolling in almost you know almost 20 after 10 um and I get that they're coming from far but I honestly I don't necessarily know that they're not going to have to come back anyway because I think the building is going to have to come down and they're going to have to represent what the proposal is Mr Lords I understand Miss beam's comments um we will take a look at the situation and um fill in some of the blank spaces how many square feet is this going I mean what what what could I say the architect the architect um he's not going to win tonight I I understand and so consequently based on that we understand the necessity to possibly carry this to the next meeting yes but can we put you first on the agenda for the 25th of November you put us first this time but the answer is yes so you time well that's it if it's on record that's great so well we would want to continue this he uh can I have an extension of time for the board month 30 December whatever yes yeah until that date when would we be extending this to what what November 30th November 25th is the next meeting and since you're being carried I could put you first I don't know if that gives you enough time or December 9th or the 16th on the 9th I have two applications scheduled and the 16th I have three the 25th the first one can I take a moment 16 December 9th I don't want to be with the cemetery that's December 9th I don't I I don't want the cemetery night so that December 9th is the cemetery that's why I was going to bring it up is November 25th doable December 9th or do we want to go December 9th the nth is the cemetery December I don't want to be we'll do this the 25th okay we November 25th thank you and you grant an extension through that time when was it oh November 25th I'm not November 2 no it's got to be December 9th I can't do the 25th I when did he agree to when is the 2 it's a work in progress what date is the 25th that's a that's a the 25th is the Monday before Thanksgiving fine 25th it is and I'll Grant an extension to the 25th to the 30th of November yes okay so those of us that are here case number ba8 24-1 how medical investors LLC this expiration date is being carried uh to November 30th 2024 the next date to this application will be heard is on 25 November 2024 uh with no further notice with no further notice thank you we're good Mr Lawrence thank you very much Mr board good evening good evening good night night motion to adjourn motion to adjourn all in favor we are adjourned real quickly before we leave uh Paul uh we hopefully you'll be back for the next meeting but just in case we thank you so much for all you've done for us [Applause]