##VIDEO ID:EWZojGVG2os## e e e e e e e e e I think we'll be fine but we'll pip that n if we need to move something up we will see hello hello you nervous see you there okay we're everybody ready going to go ahead and call to order uh the special call meeting we're going to start with a moment of Silent reflection for our First Responders and members of the Armed Forces that'll be followed by an invocation by our property appraiser Mr Wesley Davis which will be followed by the Pledge of Allegiance by the County Administrator if everybody would please rise our heavenly father we thank you for the opportunity that we have to come before you today and conduct The public's business while this may seem very mundane it is extremely important to give our commissioners the guidance knowledge in the wisdom as we look down the future and look out for the best for a beautiful community may we use your knowledge and wisdom to shape the decisions and to keep this community what it is today in your heavenly name we pray Amen to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all right all right we are going to start with a presentation of the IND County 2024 comprehensive plan evaluation and appraisal report commonly known as the ear welcome good afternoon Commissioners Chris Balter planning and development services director here uh just want to give a quick overview of what we will be discussing today so the comprehensive plan is a 10 to 20 year uh policy framework guiding the community's future development in areas such as land use housing infrastructure transportation and environmental and conservation um the the evaluation appraisal report every seven years by State Statute we have to take a look at our comprehens of plan to see if we have to make any changes to it or updates um with the ear review seeks to ensure this plan aligns with updated Florida Statutes re reflects best planning practices and meets the community's needs and I'm going to introduce Kelly Kepler with kimley horn to go over the Powerpoint for the summary thanks Chris and H good afternoon Commissioners for the record Kell cler with kimley horn also with me today is Miss Heather glisten uh who is a senior planner uh and also uh very heavily engaged with this uh review an assessment um if I can get the PowerPoint I would appreciate it I know uh Chris provided a couple of different summaries some very uh easy to to read follow documents uh the two-page summaries both of today's presentation as well as the ear document itself um they I'll say those two documents I would love to be able to say what he said and what's in those two documents and then start to go through questions but uh I want to make sure we're we're kind of going through the logistics of the ear as ch said you know it's an evaluation and Appraisal uh you know based off of the work that we have undertaken in partnership with Chris and the County's team over the the last bit and then also building off of those uh other initiatives that the county has undertaken whether it's been the rural visioning or the urban Services boundary some of that to make sure that what we're proposing as part of this review and update uh and series of recommendations is consistent with that but also that it's community-driven Community focused and uh consistent with the County's Vision uh so with that what I'm going to do is to also say that there was an addendum that was distributed by Chris earlier this morning that was to the review Matrix that is a supplemental document it reflected about seven to eight additional uh Corrections that uh both Chris and the County Administrator had provided us primary updates on that were references to the parks master plan and one of the integrated plans so a couple of just plan references the the the components of that uh Andor the the main ideas behind that did not change it was just an update on a couple of the terms and references in that so as Chris said the comprehensive plan of course is your long-term Vision the 10 to 20 year look out to see where do we want to be in the next 10 to 20 years and it's based off of a couple of different things uh one it's looking at the population growth uh that we are projecting and when I say we the county as well as uh Florida commerce formerly known as Deo uh Department of Economic Opportunity as well as the mo the wat management districts and a number of other different entities uh so looking at that population and to make sure we have enough land to sustain the growth and where does that growth go so that's one of the things I was going to say this morning I applaud the county because you've been very proactive in your planning visioning and approach and also being very robust on community outreach uh I will say that your probably one of the leaders in that we work with a number of communities across the state a lot of people will just check the box and kind of keep moving what we did as part of this project and I know there was a similar uh community outreach component was to go where the where the residents live you know we had a series of community workshops around around the county we follow that up with a second round of community workshops uh plus a series of online surveys and information and as you know we we talked about with uh you know the County Administrator and this and the team here we had over between inperson Andor the online over 600 respondents uh participa in this process doesn't sound like a lot but when you think about from a comprehensive plan process and this there again this was just the evaluation that is a fairly significant number of of residents who took the time to provide us comments and thoughts so as Chris said the goals of the year it's kind of like when you go to the doctor and you're getting a checkup they tell you you know hey this is what's going going on your hearing is good your eyes are good let's take a look at your heart or your cholesterol and then they prescribe a course of action that's the exact same thing that the a does it provides you a road map of items that the county can can consider for adoption or Amendment as part of the subsequent process does this mean that we're amending the comprehensive plan today no does this give you the items that have been recommended throughout this process and working collaboratively with the county uh staff yes so now you have the ability there's certain things that you have to undertake through the statutes other things that you know you can kind of take a look at maybe time out a little bit more uh but it's the other thing that I will say is as Chris said is you know it's not only just looking at what the statutes say but it's also what is what's what's been accomplished so let's celebrate successes and let's start to turn our attention to what's the next items that we have but more importantly and this is where you know working with the County Administrator very closely it was let's not be so Visionary that we bankrupt the county so we need to be financially or fiscally feasible in this approach as well there are a number of other communities that have either painted themselves into a corner or committed to plans and uh procedures that have cost them or will be costing them a significant amount of money uh moving forward so there again right sizing your vision right sizing your plan miring that up with the County's resources to make sure that there again we're being economically uh uh respectful of of the resources we have and more importantly being financially feasible so as we talked a little bit about the community engagement highlights uh there again uh a series of workshops in person online plus a number of opportunities for uh residents to also provide comments and writing to Chris and the staff uh these were some of the most well attended especially for those of you because I know a lot of you were had the ability to participate in those we heard a lot of great comments you know it wasn't just we don't want growth grow it was really kind of getting into things as far as sidewalks and parks and environmental responsibility growth was in there of course but it wasn't always negative it was a lot of positives there was also a lot of of celebration of successes well the County's done a great job with this so being able to provide those comments and we did provide a a companion document to what we've provided here uh that would be also uh at the County's use moving forward so from a report highlight uh there again I'm not going to go through every single element every single page as far as each individual comment we're going to go through and talk about each of the elements but at a higher level uh what you'll see a lot of times was that there was inconsistent use of terminology uh Chris has come up with you know he provided the best example of one person wrote this another person wrote that and they never really were in the same room to talk uh so you had the same ideas but had different words being used so the easy thing is to say let's let clean up for a consistency approach other things there were components of your comprehensive plan that included uh zoning code or development code or standards like engineering that really should not be in your comprehensive plan they should be either in an engineering manual or your code itself so much so that the state actually adopted a statute a number of years ago that said the co the plan is the plan the code is the code and the two should not be the same uh so in essence you know making sure that there is that supporting document that provides that credibility and supports uh what we're trying to construct or develop on the ground uh removal of redundant goals objectives and policies what we found in a lot of cases was that there was something in future land use that was repeated in housing that was also repeated in like one or two others you only need to say it once so why do we keep repeating some of that so they're again cleaning up a lot of that as part of this process we did go through the County's uh complete comprehensive plan all 12 elements uh and just kind of diving into the specifics and and I would encourage you if you've got questions along the way on the specific element Chris and I are here as well as Heather to be able to answer some of those questions uh and you know if if there aren't any I'm just going to kind of keep moving uh but I know that there was like I said a lot of review and input from the team here uh to try to make sure that this was was clear easy to follow and provided a good guiding document or that road map for the future so if you give me one second so when we talk about the future land use of course that is kind of what everybody thinks the comprehensive plan is uh the you know the nice colored map on the wall that says okay my property is yellow so that means I'm residential and the red is commercial uh unfortunately that's not the entirety the comp plan all of the elements have to talk together so when we look through the element and this is also in your Matrix uh one we started to uh recommend removal of portions and this was probably one of the sections that had more of the code components identifying those to be pulled out and moved into your code uh celebrate successes remove those plans and and policies and things that have been completed because they were just taking up space and then also making sure that we are updating statutory references that was a resounding theme where there there were still some references to the Department of Economic Opportunity uh or other agencies that have since changed their name or they made reference to uh agencies that have I'll say gone on to bigger and better things and there's a more accurate uh and legally defensible agency that we're working with at this point so future land use you know of course we did not recommend changes to anyone's uh land use nor did we get into the discussion as far as the urban Services boundary knowing that that was a specific uh policy discussion and plan that was running in parallel uh so there are some references in here but again making sure that there was a kind a clear delineation in what we were recommending sanitary sewer uh you know the county has a very robust program when it comes to providing sanitary sewer services and of course as areas are you know growing and developing who's providing that service uh you know Water and Wastewater as as well uh so there were some references in here to the Department of Health some references to uh the floor Administrative Code as well as the statutes and also there were some references in here and we we did talk and work with the County Administrator that the county really didn't have jurisdiction to be able to regulate because it's under a other state program or uh agency so making sure that those UH responsibilities were being put in the right the right buckets and then also that this is one of the first references to an updated plan but the integrated water master plan uh there may be additional items that come out of that plan that the county is working on which would uh NE necessitate some additional updates to this element moving forward pable water we all like to make sure we have enough water to uh sustain our population and that is a critical component uh so making sure that not only are we consistent with the County's water supply facilities work plan or sometimes what we refer to as a wsp But there again talking about the integrated master plan approach uh for water Wastewater and also some of our other uh utilities component uh one of the things we did look at of course was inter locals because the county does partner with a number of other communities as far as providing certain certain services to make sure one that their growth rates are com accommodated within the water supply plan but then making sure that the county has enough resources to be able to accommodate its own population growth Solid Waste uh one of the keys that came out of this and this was I think this is definitely a success uh we're seeing reductions in the solid waste Stream So the the life of some of this some of these public facilities is actually getting extended people are are utilizing uh different things there's a little differ approach to uh Solid Waste Disposal so we're there again we're seeing a reduction in how much waste is being generated which only extends the life of of Current public facilities and or you know I'll say reduces overall cost to the county natural groundwater uh you know being this community when you start looking at this plus the conservation in the coastal element these are some of the most important uh what goes on from a groundwater perspective what you know of course affects what's going on with the Lagoon and all of these things kind of are interrelated moving forward so the biggest highlights that we had coming out out of this was um you know one making sure that there was the correct language that allows the county to do certain things uh but also not overcommit it again uh when you start looking at some of this it was there there was the the th sha and when you started putting a price tag to some of this it became unrealistic to some extent and also it's things that the county is either undertaking or has identified as part of one of their other plans uh so there again just starting to rightsize this element with the language that we have uh and also as Technologies change giving the county the flexibil ability to be able to adapt to those instead of having you all there again painted into a corner it allowed more flexibility in in in order to be able to provide those services and or address groundwater moving forward but still working within the confines of what the county wants and what the state and the other agencies are working towards the other thing uh on this one was also to start to move components from the natural groundwater into the conservation element where they really should be placed and again starting to identify some things that would also uh work I'll say promote anti-sprawl uh I know that still is one of those terms we continue to use from time to time but just working towards uh those Provisions that are still looking at where where are we growing and how and making sure that that aligns with our utility Provisions storm water you with unfortunately with the storms uh that we've had uh over the last several years storm water ends up being another one of those kind of key focuses uh so what we of course working with staff on this one uh was to again look at flexibility to provide those that language that Pro is a guide versus the I'll call it the stick in this case um also making sure that we removing things that were more akin to being in the engineering manual out of the comp plan and into the manuals themselves what we have a lot of times is a community that will have certain standards uh whether it is specific parking believe it or not yes people put parking in there building Heights uh or some of our storm water rates and or designs and as Technologies change as things change in order to actually be able to implement that as part of a design manual technically you should be updating your comprehensive plan as well but a lot of places don't do that so just working there again with staff to uh remove some of that and then also uh again looking at that Financial feasibility and ensuring that uh there's funds available to do what we need to do over the next 10 to 20 years trans Transportation you know this has always been a big topic you know you've got a great uh Mo and Brian and looking at that long-term growth especially from a Mobility standard it's not just about the cars it's also about pedestrians it's about the uh the bicycles it's about the trails it's about all forms of connectivity and Mobility so wonder if it's going to be the F-18 again uh that was Transportation um but also looking at you know extending that plan Horizon out to the 20 years and then aligning both with the no as well as the state from a classification system Economic Development this is one of those elements that's not required it's an optional element as defined by the statutes but it's actually a really good one because you've started to set the stage for what what type of Industry what type of employment what do we want to do from an economic development perspective you know is it always just about industry no is it about about a yes is it about the economic engine that you have right across the street yes so starting to make sure that we're focusing in on some of those targets and again celebrate successes look at new targets look at new OP options and opportunity that further diversify the the overall economic engine that is Indian River County Capital Improvements uh this is an say one of the easier ones from a comprehensive plan perspective because the county has to develop a CIP and then also a schedule that goes with it that says these are the projects we're going to do from a capital perspective the sources of of income and when they're going to be constructed so the the easy thing on our end was to update standards but then to make of course reference to the the most recent CIP and the cis's that are being adopted and approved by you all moving forward housing uh big takeaways from this one just having Provisions that are supported by the overall long-term Vision that was adopted uh to look at accessory dwelling units uh but also references to the the state uh initiated live local act uh there were also two policies that were identified with respect to Historic preservation and supporting the Adaptive reuse of those historically significant structures conservation and Coastal management very similar in nature to some of the other ones moving regulations into other uh I'll say moving the RS out of the comp plan and into those but also uh supporting and enhancing and this is something that currently finalizing and working on of course is the manatee protection plan uh that is included by reference in here it's not a formal requirement or part of the comp plan but it's a companion document Coastal uh looking at uh identifying agencies that are going to fund and Implement Beach stabilization as well as some of the renourishment uh again some of the policies were older outdated so making sure they again we're looking at what what do we want to need and or need within the next 20 years I promise there's only a couple more here we've got uh three total but Recreation open space uh this is one of those that the county has done an excellent job on uh meeting its level of service and that's basically our Parks whether it's active or passive Recreation uh so the county has done an excellent job you know there's no changes in some of those uh Provisions for level of service but also making sure that we're referencing the the parallel or the companion Parks master plan uh that again will probably lead to some additional uh updates in this element intergovermental coordination very simply put how well do you work with other agencies whether it's the cities uh the adjacent counties the Department of Transportation the state uh or the federal government uh just ensuring that those uh either are in place or have mechanisms to remain in place moving forward public school facilities uh this is another one of those that's not technically required but it's an optional element it's good to keep this in here because it also is starting to marry up the school's long range plan as well as the county especially from a housing and population perspective and then last but not least the property rights and this is one of those elements that was mandated by the state a number of years ago uh because the language is extremely clear in the statutes there was no additional uh review needed as part of that and I know I ran through a lot in a very short period of time you have uh no less than three series of documents that go go with this whether it's the formal ear document the review matrices Andor the community involvement uh summary uh so at this point we'd be happy to answer any questions you may have Commissioners do you have any questions comment thiss yes commissioner and I know you mentioned that the urban uh service boundary analysis runs parallel to this um how are we planning to make sure that the different documents uh mesh and I'll mention in particular the three items that came in first second and third with regard to the urban service boundary and the question was what are the top concerns you have related to Future growth within the County so first was impact on the natural environment that was a concern of the majority of people second was infrastructure and third was traffic congestion so which document does that belong in should it be reflected in all of them would you please uh speak to that sure and I want to ask Chris to be able to uh fill in any gaps that I miss here but you know the urban Services boundary is an excellent opportunity because it's focusing in on that long-term growth going uh to the West um when you start looking at and this is something that we did collaboratively with staff looking at not only the population but some of those comments that were coming out a lot of the comments that we saw in during our review were consistent Transportation environmental stewardship and conservation as well as just that overall growth so you know we looked at the population we did revise an update a couple of things uh because their population numbers were more recent than ours when we started uh but the documents align from a land use perspective as well as conservation uh and there's a number of policies in here that of course support or will protect those environmental uh components the USB document does not get into I'll say Wetland protections and things of that nature of course exactly what uh Kelly said the public input matched perfectly between the two so all of those safeguards that were brought up during the USB uh report have been incorporated into the the comprehensive plan with conservation and all of those elements have with our current policies as well as strengthening which is some of the recommendations from kimley horn um our existing policies so and they focus specifically on all of those areas that were brought up because they were brought up in both public engagements um now this is not a question about policy but with regard to traffic is there a way that we can uh measure how much traffic we're adding each time we vote on a subdivision so that the community is aware of the amount of traffic that's being added for each subdivision and perhaps keep some kind of cumulative total for the year you know how much traffic have we added in a given year you know that that we can know that and the community can know that since that's one of the top concerns so that's actually built into our Land Development regulations and it's also built into our concurrency management system so we do track that data both in our uh planning department and our public works department okay well can you speak to it this would be for the future um publicly when we need to vote on a subdivision can you include that as part of uh the presentation that that is made by planning so what we include is the traffic studies for the preliminary rezonings and then for the actual plan uh plan developments the traffic studies are included as well so those traffic studies show the actual trips and then what improvements would be required if there was any improvements needed for the roadways okay it shows the amount of trips that each subdivision brings online Okay um is there any way to understand you know how many cars are you know in in in a very simple form you know to understand how many cars are being added each time uh we vote on something just just so that everyone can understand it commissioner Moss are you asking um for like a definition of what the trips mean like okay we have a Development coming in it's they're calculating the traffic study is showing 100 trips a day is that what you're looking for that trip information or do you want I don't know how we would I don't know how we would measure that over time like if we're adding 100 trips as opposed to here's a calculation that um is used through the state and and as a best practice there's a calculation that's updated based on the use of that zoning so like commercial you calculate more trips than for residential and I'm sure we can get you those those documents so you know how those trips are calculated but there's a formula based on the amount of um units and what the use intensity of the use is okay thank you you're welcome additionally Madam chair I think a particular subdivision those traffic counts would be U separate and distinct to any other areas of the community Madam chair I do have a few questions okay go for it Kell if you could go back to that one um topic you had under housing I think it was about four from the back okay give me one second housing yes sir the one um and I know you you mentioned that this is excludes some of our other plans um but one part uh where it talks continue to encourage infield development to prevent Urban spraw um that sounds a lot like uh USB but earlier you mentioned that these were separate plans and and having said that what does this document how much teeth does it have so to speak when we talk about continue to encourage infill development which obviously means within the USB to pre to prevent urban sprawl now the word prevent was that collectively decided to in other words that sounds like like there's no urban sprawl going to happen under this plan yeah so maybe you we might want to rephrase that because one the ear document and this specific policy well one the ear document is a guidance right this is 8,000 ft and the board that is a policy decision of the board let's make that very clear so if the board said we're okay with expanding the USB you're not in conflict with this document there's other ways to mitigate sprawl through a a mix of uses through uh you know specific placement within certain areas uh and sprawl is just not single family being placed here it's also looking at the transportation resources the proximity to public facilities as well as other public resources so there again this is advisory uh we are encouraging it kind of goes back to the adus that accessory dwelling unit of another tool in the toolbx if the county so desired to say we' to incentivize this and it may take some of the pressure off here but it's not always an equal sum we know that you know mitigate might be better than prevent but uh onto your next slide when talks about the intergo relationships there you go and I think this uh this although this is 8,000 ft and let's say the USB is 4,000 uh I think this may be more directed to the County Administrator on um the potential or any thought of agreements that we may have with our municipalities we certainly uh we have existing you know requirements in the comprehensive plan regarding uh inter government coordination and we certainly will double down on those and I think this is going to reset the time frame for those that have not been completed I forget the time frame that they expressed having was it the jpas and the isbs so out of the USB as well um they're they are closely related obviously the the comp plan is the overarching document so there's going to be a lot of similarities within the intergovernmental coordination and also the isbs as well because they relate to intergovernmental coordination um we have existing interlocal agreements with municipalities that have been in place for a long time that do need some updating as well and that was one of the things that came out of the uh comprehensive Plan update as well was relooking at those existing interlocal agreements and updating them because we know some of them have been set you know 20 years ago that need to be updated to today's time so to your to your point the current comprint a plan like policy 13 by 2012 the county shall establish or interlocal agreements with all municipalities um so I mean by 2012 County shall contact staffs of municipalities so these dates are being updated and I think the the the well I don't think they're a Panacea for success in terms of The Joint City County meetings but they certainly laid a foundation to O open the doors of communication and I've noticed some pretty good communication since but we obviously once you put understand at the last meeting was dis the USB meeting was discussed how there was an ISB proposed with Sebastian that was not acted upon so now we have an opportunity to revisit that and correct me if I'm wrong but every municipality Township County whatever we want to call them Village uh they are required to have this very similar document submitted as well they were required to have an intergovernmental coordination element acting on inter local agreements is yeah they don't seem to get past that sometimes in other areas but we do have to report this document to the state that's correct that's correct so the municipalities village town ships and others also have to submit this that's correct and in their language it probably says something about intergovernmental coordination as well yes okay which may be very different or not exist sometimes what most municipalities or other counties that don't want to enter into agreements they'll make their language very vague other question M yes thank you enjoy the salad um you know you referred to a term sprawl we've been talking about it for many years it's very interpretive the definition of sprawl because you want to prevent it the document wants to prevent it the document prevents it but he's the right so sprawl is a defined term under Florida Statutes and it actually provides a certain number of criteria but what the state did was to take away some of those character istics but generally if it is a single use low density or extremely low density that's just being extended Beyond uh where you can provide those Services whether it's police fire schools Parks water Wastewater uh that is what generally what I refer to a sprawl so it's a differentiation between the co- terminality of the logistical burden of expansion that that's my personal definition and and use of it uh there again it's also the Beauties in the eye of the holder there is a number of characteristics or criteria in the state statutes that says you can find that something is spraw if you meet like was it Chris three or four of the following eight I believe so yeah yeah so there again I mean it it's it's subject to interpretation um sprawl is a very generic general term um again if you were to say you know we don't have any population growth over the next 20 years but yet we're going to expand our service area for water and wastewater by X somebody could very easily go well that could be sprawl or if you start going to you know one acre tracks or five acre tracks and you know I'll say further on the west side of the county somebody could have that that sprawl grow but development growth and development again there again the nice thing the nice thing about it is it is a policy discussion and decision by the folks that are sitting here that are elected by the residents of this County to make that determination based off of a number of factors I just didn't want anybody to think oh you want to prevent that Sproul thing whatever that is and and there's a lot that goes into it commissioner um I know that yeah and I mean I'm not going to sit there and say oh it's an easy thing if you hit this then you're automatically sprawl um you know prior to coming to kimley Horn I worked in Central kentucky we had a defined Urban Services boundary up there and we looked at very similar to what DCA used to maximum populations maximum land coverage and certain other things but what we very quickly realized is that is that not every piece of property within the urban Services boundary was actually for sale or could be developed for some reason so that's where I'm saying there's got to be that also that policy discussion and decision by those that make the policies uh because of potential impacts on traffic or cost to water and waste water okay is that I'm just and I refer back to commissioner Moss's question uh regarding uh traffic U would that be a a major concern because of the comprehensive and collaborative burden upon the traffic when you're looking at an overall movement so there again you start looking at what's the long range Transportation plan what is funded for New Roads what is that adopted level of service um you know the county has an adopted level of service whether it's CDE or whatever else and that basically says that we think that there could be we're okay with this much traffic on this road Andor delay in that um so that is again one of the factors and what we've started seeing a lot of these days is reduction in trips especially from the you know the national St standards that everybody uses for their traffic impact analysis when we've looked at a number of plan unit developments or large scale we're actually seeing less trips that are being generated by those projects than the national standards so again another one of those going back to what you were saying commissioner with the traffic studies uh being able to analyze and and make a decision based off of information and Analysis I believe that was narrowed down to the fact that each and every project that we look at or approve as it's going forward the traffic is carefully calculated in various categories to ensure that we have Mobility but now we're looking at this as 18,000 ft a line and there again that line is I'm not going to say it's an imaginary line on the ground but there again there are other factors that go into it and I know when we were working with the county on the rural en visioning one of the examples we said and utiliz with the image was and I can't remember which what road it was Chris is like Urban Development on one side of the road 10 acre ranchets on the other and that was the the dividing line between the urban Services boundary and you know we always started to ask why but uh and I think I'm probably just digging myself into a bigger hole not answering your question thank you m safe safe okay commissioner l u Kelly I appreciate it as well um although we're a little unique and I'm not sure sure about uh Kentucky um if you had an interstate going through your county and you had a a new entrance and exit ramp Osa Road obviously um in the term prevent urban sprawl I think I think we agree that we have to have some type of connectivity or we're going to have an intersection interchange with with hardly any so how does that relate to this particular do so let me clarify I've actually been in Florida for 19 and a half years that was just my pre I kimy horn when I was Chris's counterpart um you know pre-planning for transportation working on interchange justification reports laying out that infrastructure yes is a great thing because then you're looking at transportation and then you've got to make sure you're marrying up your resources whether it's water and wastewater and can you effectively serve some of that so uh you know one of my bad dad jokes that I always make a lot of these is you know government years are kind of like dog years plan on seven years because by the time that you identify a potential project uh design it permit it bid it start the construction and or have first phase you're right at seven years so making sure that you know if there is new infrastructure that it's not just being reviewed or designed in a in a vacuum what are all the other components goes with it and so there again some of it can be as simple as this other land's not for sale it's not developable and this area is I'm working on a number of projects on the west coast as well where we're having this exact same discussion with a new interchange looking at the growth patterns looking at the buildout scenarios and then also looking at the land in between saying that that is 90% Wetlands thank you um and talking about um urban sprawl thank you for bringing that up uh Vice chair um I think I might tie into potentially um the the cookie cutter subdivisions um you know I don't think we're particularly happy with that I know I've heard out in the community they're not happy with that I've read it in different uh media that we're not happy with that so how do we um how do we get there from here I mean which which document uh would best uh create that kind of situation where we're trying to avoid cookie cutter subdivisions uh urban sprawl traffic I think it's all it's all part of the same thing yeah they are but that's so that's going to be like the next layer of decisions under the comprehensive plan the comprehensive plan takes everything that we have and like sews it all together in a little bag and it's all in there in the comprehensive plan the comprehensive plan is intended to give flexibility for all your Land Development regulations your traffic programs and studies your n decisions your Coastal storm water Capital Improvement programs all those different things exist in your comprehensive plan by virtue of the way the comprehensive plan is written it's it's w written to give flexibility to do all those details then you start drilling down to um your ordinances Your Land Development regulations um your development processes and review what you use to review those different things so if you want to prevent cookie cutter developments you would need to have an ldr that gave a Land Development regulation that gave enough flexibility to approve different types and sizes and lots and and all those types of things but if you want to prevent traffic issues and level of Standards on roads that's decisions made at Mo related to a b c and d inter interchanges and and Road standards so that's where that comes into play where it comes into play in the comp plan is you have a policy that says that the county shall Will May however you want to State it plan for an update County Road standards basically so the things that you guys are wanting to make sure we are or are not doing or we are preventing or we're encouraging or whatever the case may be that's the next step under the comprehensive plan so we implement this with whatever and think of it as like a broad a broad background and then the next thing we're going to do and this is where some of the USB stuff ties in as well is go in and start adding the details of the painting like the leaves on the tree kind of thing um with ldr changes with ordinance changes with code changes basically is that kind of it in a nutshell exactly yeah thank you I I understand what you're saying that it's it's layered um I guess I guess my concern is you know we have probably already even have some of these things on paper but uh you know it's it's not what the community sees you know in terms of traffic maybe it's in writing that it says oh the level of service is fine it got a good grade whatever a good grade is D or something like that whatever the good grade is it got the good grade but meanwhile it's not happening in the real world there sometimes I think there's a gap between what's on paper and the real world I I think sometimes there's a misunderstanding in the real world about what the definitions of things are right so a level of service we have most of our roads are a level of service C or better so what does that mean that means you can reasonably get through one traffic light change you can get through a traffic light with one change you don't have to sit there through two cycles that's what c means and if you go to most of our interchanges you can get through there's a lot of cars but you can still get through in one change if it drops below that to a d that's when we usually at the no start looking at escalating those projects up um on the plan uh that we update the long range Transportation plan and the one we update every year I can't ltpt I don't know there's all sorts of acronyms but you know what I'm talking about um so I think that the community though when they hear level of standard C they're thinking it's something different than what our definition is so what I'm trying to say is I don't think we do a good job of communicating information to the public so they can understand what we're doing and um I think somewhat we are limited in our ability to regulate things and because you can over regulate you can create a problem by trying to fix a problem so think of some some of your cookie cutter things if you are very specific then they all are going to come out the same if you leave it a little bit open-ended people have flexibility but then you have to trust that they're going to use those appropriately and the masses always suffer for the sins of the few so that you know you get in these situations where then you try to fix a problem so it doesn't happen again and you create a thousand more problems um but I think what I'm hearing from you guys is a message to staff that as we move out of the comp comprehensive plan the ear process and we start making our regulations consistent with the comprehensive plan traffic urban sprawl definitions um or or the Oslo area like those are the things that we want to make sure we're paying attention to Ser the ability to deliver Services um we want that message carried to the next level of decision making and I think because that's what you heard from the we heard from the public I think that's what this a summary of what we're trying to say then that might not be a decision here but for the next steps we want to have that included yes I just so I just want to frame this and Kelly you can tell me if I'm wrong but essentially the evaluation appraisal report is just that it's evaluating and appraising a comprehensive plan so it's evaluating the document and you know what have we accomplished what we have not accomplished what is the appropriate land use mixes what are the various future land use categories the ear itself is not a policy document with this what you what you have in front of you is not a policy document it's not binding on anything it's advising the community or in this case the commission What policies may need to be looked at in the upcoming year and then after those policies are adopted and the comprehensive plan is amended we have a deadline by you know September 30th I think of 2025 to respond to this ear report and update comprehensive plan and then after that or concurrently with that we will propose appropriate Land Development regulations that uh would would serve the purpose of you adopt the policy which might be the issue on sprawl and then the ldr would be the criteria or the mechanism by which you regulate that so uh and we've had some conversations and I would say is there may be some things as we've discussed that are going to come out of the comprehensive plan because of regulatory nature so what we propose is at such time we send up our we would do our comp plan amendments we send it up to the uh now the new agency Florida Department of Economic Florida commerce they keep changing it send up to Florida commerce they look at it they're going to provide us comments back so then we'll have a second hearing and with that second hearing we concurrently propose an ordinance that would take that regulatory issue because some people might be justifiably concerned if you take what they believe was a regulatory issue out of the comp plan and say well there's going to be a vacuum it's going to open the doors everybody's going to do something so we'll do the timing to make sure that when one comes out the other goes in and that's something all of you as a body will vote on other questions comments from yes John was a good point I I look at this and and please tell me if I'm wrong I look at this comprehensive plan as the overall Manual of so what we have to do and accomplish at accounting then we drive it down in the specifics which are ldrs or statutes or ordinances and all the other stuff so this is kind of like a like an agency standard operating procedures that's then brought down in the next level of something specific I I think you've done a really good job because first of all it needed updating without a doubt uh second of all some redundant language things like that stuff we don't have any uh jurisdiction over responsibility for is taken out of this I think I think those are the good points but but I'm kind of relating to it in my previous career and I don't know if the sheriff's department had a had aop of what the what the mission was but I know the at the fire rescue we had we had our Sops in general and then it got down to Pacific on how we would handle a traffic accident or a Hazmat situation or something like that and how we would mitigate that but this drove to make sure that that we were performing those duties and it was to keep us in check that is what we're doing in X situation applied to why situation and do they you know do they one doesn't jump above or countermand what's in our overall standard operating procedures would that be a fair that's I say between what you said and and John the count administrator yes okay that's the way I look at I think y'all I think y'all have done a good job at looking at a lot of stuff and I've read some of it some of it's not the most interesting reading I've ever read but but overall it's it's it it it makes a lot of sense and it's just up to us to follow through to make sure we get specific right to prevent things like sprawl and make sure we have plenty of water and make sure we have roads that are that are worthy and intersections that do what they're supposed to do yeah Madam chair thank you um so with it goes to Tallahassee I presume which we talked about last week with with Chris and Kelly and John and Nancy um what are the John in your experience the common comments that would come back from the hill saying you're you know you're out of order on particular things or is this a rubber stamp so I'm I'm going to confess that I have not submitted an ear under the current you know framework it used to be a lot more regulated when there was an administrative rule 9 J5 and they would issue what they would call an orc report objections recommendations comments so I I know they have accepted our our ear because again the ear is not a policy document it's when we present policies to them which will be the comp plan comp plan policies that are predicated or based upon the ear and then your your wisdom as leg as a legislative body uh that they may provide some comments uh I don't I think it's my understanding from colleagues that they've been they've not they are not as forceful as they were in the past the largely the state agency that manages growth you know ostensibly many would consider it was gutted back in 2001 and it has continued to be 2011 I yes or 2011 yes thank you uh under governor Scott so uh but there are still policies in the statute I mean it does there is a definition for urban spraw there's still things related to concurrency there's still things making sure that we have to do things to manage growth you know at least if for me arguably a uniform standpoint throughout the state so unless we are deviating somewhere you know in I would say in a major way I think there's going to be some difference provided to the local governing body how they perceive and want to manage their growth right so also I I believe I think it's still between the municipalities the townships The Villages and the counties I believe in the state there's about 435 separate distinct entities so what I'm hearing is that all of those 435 are submitting a some some type of plan and one agency in Tallahassee is reviewing these and sending back comments yes that is correct but I will add that's why there's a schedule yes so they they can M they can manage the flow that comes in in any given time gotcha all right um at this time I think there was a couple people that wanted to say something did you want do you had your hand raised earlier sir okay please come to the podium and state your name and address Tom Sullivan 4187 West 16 square uh when you were talking about the issue of traffic that you brought up and the concurrency I think some of the problems that occur there is when the concurrency studies are done they don't cumulative amount for the projects that are going in the future and that causes a problem we can look at 37th Street in us uh in US one as a prime example of that uh there's going to going to be an apartment building built I don't want to go through all the stuff you guys know but I think that's one of the issues that you have to look at uh the other thing urban sprawl I think you should use growth I think I don't like urban sprawl uh and then sounds kind of spooky doesn't it yeah no yeah sounds like the blob 1950 forbid and then the other thing with the puds is I think we have to use alternate entrances and exits for example you know let's look at Antigua that I don't know if you're familiar with that on us one anes rather yeah so so another project is going to be built a little bit below that with about 800 homes on it and I think what we have to look at is different ways of these communities coming in and out when you tend you know what what uh commissioner Moss was talking about when we build these puds we only allow for one entrance and exit most of the times that's for their security reasons which is wonderful for them if they want to live in a secure situation however it's terrible for a traffic situation because you have all the traffic pouring out from one Central Point at one given time particularly if we start getting more people at work God forbid but if that would have happened all I don't mean that the wrong way I know you guys work but what happens is now you locate all these puds and you locate them along one road and then at a given time you have everybody leaving from a central location I just think think if we diversify that a little it would solve some problems that's all I had to say thank you thank you anybody else okay seeing none um Commissioners I think really what staff is looking for is any input or questions really that we have about the year and to the point that was made earlier if this is the driving document for things we kind of need to work on in the upcoming year is there any things we want to make sure that we've included and I think we've given Direction on that um so unless you guys have anything else that we need to do or you need input on or anybody has any other comments they would like to make I'm seeing none then I think we can be adjourned e