e e e e e e e e e e for like ever nobody ever touches all right it is now 4 o'clock we're going to call this special call meeting to order we're going to start with a moment of Silent reflection for the First Responders and members of the Armed Forces followed by an invocation by past Jeremy revman of the United Methodist ver church buau Beach or ver church huh oh never mind I'm Sorry by invocation by commissioner lore followed by the Pledge of Allegiance by commissioner irman so if everybody would please stand please pray with me our heavenly father we are grateful for this day we're grateful for this County we're grateful for this state and we're grateful for this wonderful country father as we make decisions on the County's behalf today we know that you can offer us the best guidance and loyalty to our consumers and our residents we all say this in your son's name amenes the FL United States of America to the for stand One Nation God indivisible andice all right are there any additions or deletions to the agenda if not commissioner flesher do you want to make your standing motion of approving the agenda as presented Madam chair motion to approve the agenda as stated second all right we have a motion and a second all in favor opposed motion carries and with that we will move into the meet of our meeting the second special call meeting on the solid waste and recyclables collection services not you take it away all right good afternoon Commissioners good afternoon to the public uh my name is Zan schum I'm the managing director of the solid waste disposal district and um I'm excited to be here I think U I'm proud of the process that we've taken and uh proud of uh of of of some historic decisions today uh so as you mentioned we are here to talk about the solid waste and recyclables collection Services franchise um it is set to expire on September 30 2025 uh I'm proud of of the fact that we've started this process early enough uh thorough enough uh and and uh excited to kind of move to the next level um so today's purpose it is decision time today um and uh it it moves us one step closer to to making sure that we we have a a smooth transition of services for our residents uh we're going to present uh service options uh that are being considered for garbage Recycling yard waste and bulk collection recycling is the service that uh impacts all residents of Indian County uh the other services the garbage yard waste and bul collection uh services that we're going to talk about today only impact unincorporated indan County residents um we're here to obtain public input and we're here to get the swi board to uh guide us on some decisions about about the services that are to begin in our community starting October 1 2025 um so you know I love garbage I've been I think this week celebrated 20 years years uh of of being with IND Yer County and 17 of those have have been with the solid waste disposal district and um uh and so as I've traveled uh one of the things that uh that comes to my attention is recycling containers garbage containers and I had an opportunity uh earlier this year to to go back to India and so I'm going to I'm going to take you on a little World Tour real quick um so had my sft jacket at the Taj Mahal as you see on the top left corner there uh you know probably representing Indian n county um just some some pictures there um some containers you know of of what what's utilized for collection and recycling um what I saw is some manual efforts uh the you know bottom uh left picture on your screen um and basically the gentleman was sweeping it up and then putting it into those uh those containers and I got a little bit of a a video this is my hometown this is outside my door uh they have a 7 day a week service um it's part of their taxes or whatnot there is no separate garbage bill but this is how it's it's done in my hometown so I just wanted to show you a glimpse of how seven days a week this is what happens right outside my my door in in the in the hometown of of NAD India um then I want to take you to Rome thanks to Jim harpring Town manager of town of Indian rores uh he took a trip there earlier this year and uh you know I think he's caught the solid waste bug right wherever you go you try to try to you know garbage just comes to your to your attention so just like uh unfortunately or different than India or my hometown here they have an automated uh vehicle here I going show you sure we so that's how it's done in in Rome and so then it brings us back here back to Indian R County to talk about what we're doing today so um again I'm proud of the process you know we started this with board Direction back in July of 2023 uh happy to report that uh you know through the whole process uh we had right from the beginning uh uh various interested parties and and wanting to to basically work uh for Indian rer County and we received five responses on February 21st 2024 um as you recall we we uh passed out over 87,000 postcards we held a meeting last month in the chambers here uh it was a special call meeting on March 20th uh we didn't make any decisions at the time but we went over all the different options that that are going to be again in front of you today and here we are today uh for this second special call meeting uh to select the option um ultimately what what staff is looking for at the end of this meeting is is basically for the board to select an option uh give us authorization to negotiate with the top two ranked firms uh and then we're looking at a final award in May or June of this year uh which would allow uh the huler 15 to 16 months to obtain their carts truck Staffing Etc to be ready to to make sure that ultimately our residents uh have continuous service um so one of the one of the first decisions here that that I kind of put in front of you is uh as I mentioned through this RFP process uh we we had a selection committee uh we the RFP was issued and uh one one of the the jobs uh primary job with the selection committee members there was five of us the utilities uh director myself uh Ronnie Jones the assistant managing director we had uh Kristen our budget director and um we had Heather Chrismas from the town of indianer Shores and U El Le stepped in as well uh to assist and our job was to review the proposals uh and and evaluate the performance of the proposals um when we came to the first meeting uh of the committee basically all of us uh had a ranking an initial ranking of the firms um and then uh what we were presented with was the uh price proposal there was a 45 points for the price if you will and so there was an initial ranking done that combined the ranking of the committee members and the financial uh pricing um after that process the selection committee uh basically uh issued a set of questions uh through the purchasing Department uh we held a second meeting and at that time uh based on the information additional information that we had received we uh came to this final ranking of the firms and as you can see here we have FCC Environmental Services out of West Palm Beach uh ranked one on all four service options uh Waste Management um ver Beach uh Florida ranked second uh Coastal Wast and recycling out of Bon uh ranked third for the first three options and Republic Services ranked third for option number four um and then as it shows again between uh Waste Pro and Republic um and Coastal on on option four uh ranking four and five um back up yeah let me go back on slide okay so I know this is early in the in the presentation um does the board have any questions I guess on the on the RFP process and the selection committee rankings uh we we would uh we felt at this stage uh and and we can wait till later but we we do want the board to accept the ranking of the of the committee um uh in terms of the process that we we went through to to uh to to follow the RFP process uh that something board would like to hold off on or would like to comments questions and concerns I think kamachi is looking for input on the RFP process and um the proposed ranking Madam chair yes much um and I appreciate the hard work the team's done and I know today is the decision day of picking an option um and then reading the followup and you mentioned it earlier uh about the um meeting with the top two um did the RFP have anything does it does it say that we're allowed to do that in other words it it looks clear that FCC uh according to these documents is is by far the the cheapest or the lowest I should say so the question is and maybe uh our attorney would know what's the process of we've got five companies that's already bid that they've already done their homework and now we are uh asking the two teams to sharpen their pencils is that because that would depend on the option that we choose today it would it would help narrow down the focus of of that negotiation um we we have preliminary pricing at this point um we we've been uh through the process and even before any of the initial pricing was received uh we did Issue various addendums I think we uh answered over 150 questions I think it was more than that uh it responded to all their questions provided additional information and one of the things that we clarified is the timeline and the the timeline indicated that was a going to be a public hearing process like we're going through now uh there would be a sort of a you know obviously the ranking would be presented to the board and uh we would basically go through a um an approval of the ranking and then negotiation with the top firms uh and then come back at a later time with an award the the idea being to to um get them to sharpen the pencil uh we to get the best price for our residents so did the vendors know throughout the RFP that once they submitted everything then the board decides the option then they get to uh reformulate their their numbers um I'm going to ask Bethany or Jennifer to maybe just reconfirm that um just seems a little unusual to me that you know everybody's done a lot of research the the vendors have and now we are picking the option and then the team would negotiate with the two which which to me seems a little unusual um you now that everybody knows each other's numbers why wouldn't you renegotiate with 5 question be be and I think that could be a decision that the the board can make um the best and final offer is a common tool utilized just again as hamach you said to get the best price for the county for your citizens um and it is a common tool it was um as he mentioned in I think it was adendum n was when the updated um procurement schedule was issued and it was clearly stated within there it was not like withholding of information and I'm sure um Jennifer could probably speak to your procurement process as well okay so it was stated in the in nor in addendum 9 yes that there would be a negotiations it was the full process and that and was that did it also include the uh who picked two who picked the top two that is a staff recommendation um and and and as you'll see later on we we we do indicate that if the board and it mentions in the agenda item that if the board um if we fail to reach a decision with the top two and to allow us to continue negotiating with the other firms um that's our recommendation uh we uh you know we we're certainly open to board suggestion or input on that um we we um like you said the it wasn't just the price the price was 45 points of the process we we we evaluated the firms we checked the references we we looked at how many trucks there were going to have how many people there going to have uh what what what are they going to do to increase recycling you know participation in our County um what was there sort of the you know uh we identified some challenges with substandard roads dirt roads narrow roads you know what kind of vehicles were they going to bring in we asked about the the fuel that they were going to use uh for their trucks uh about the local call center how many people they were going to have in the local call center so there was a a thorough vetted process by the selection committee independent review of all their qualific appliations and and all the other requirements aside from price and and so um that's that's kind of where uh I think we wanted the best of the best if you will for Indian River County and and our community and and that was the process that we did uh price was a factor ultimately we asked more questions uhu I was one of the selection committee members that uh changed my my ranking uh at the second meeting based on additional information and so um uh and and that was up to other selection committee members as well and that's how we achieved this final ranking that you see in front of you U so I I I do feel that the uh all all the firms were present at at both meetings uh to to know uh the process it was a public meeting they were invited I think all of them were there uh Jennifer can confirm but and and you know there's there's a recording of those meetings that that are public as well right it just it seems to me that you know if if I'm the vendor that's number one uh and I did my due diligence and I'm going to get in a relationship with the county for 10 years it seems a little odd to me that and obviously this is one of the first large contracts that I've dealt with as a county commissioner that um what message are we sending to them that you know you came in lowest presumably most responsible but we are uh we're going to ask you to sharpen your pencil some more I don't know how the other Commissioners feel but uh and I I don't know that uh Mr administrator have you seen or heard of a process like this in short answer no uh I did well I was made Familiar of it when they discussed it in November we had a phone call uh myself the attorney's office and I know we asked specifically where to Kesler where else this has been done it was unfamiliar to me um but they provided some examples some other cities or counties that have done it uh what I would like to ask and I hate to put staff on the spot here because I last night based on you I thoroughly went through the RFP then I did get in touch with hamans this morning I just been in interviews all day uh is for staff to review the specific language in theendum 9 because I just looked at it and I don't see where it says that I'm just I want to in terms of transparency here because I don't see it I see the change in the schedule but doesn't say highest and best offer or another firm right just I just because maybe Jennifer can I know it's a it's a 66 page document and I'm like scrolling through trying to find it and I don't see it yes commissioner flusher I just best FL I've never seen it go back I've never seen this system hi Jennifer maybe you can shed some light on this um Jennifer hiy I'm the County Purchasing manager so an River County itself I don't know in my experience here has ever done a best and final offer it is not unheard of it's definitely a very common practice both among our counterparts in the state and nationally and in some instances especially this type of contract it is a recommended best practice because it does enable us to negotiate concurrently with both firms and ultimately arrive at the best um the best product or or service for our entity um Mr tanic in terms of the schedule if you look at the schedule where it says uh the timeline um one of the entries is deadline for best and final offers if requested I believe is what it says's that one addendum n well okay so what I'm hearing from you Jennifer is while Indie county has never done this before other places around the state have been doing this for different types of rfps and it is considered a best practice yes within your expertise area purchasing I suppose yes okay and I I if you have the language you can go over it but we've had this is our third meeting right it's our second special call meeting we had a discussion at commission to talk about the timeline and I believe in all those discussions I mean I I have the other PowerPoints I can I can go upstairs and get them but there was a slide in there that indicated that this was the process we were going to go through so whether it's included in the RFP or not I understand the concern but whether it's included in the RFP or not it's not as if everybody that's been part of this conversation and even has come here or watched it all of the people that have put in submitted bids were unaware that this was going to be the process and I think at the end of the day it's set up I'm what you said earlier Jennifer is it's set up so you can get a better price for your residents and and that's what we're trying to do across the board now if you guys want to talk about opening it up to more than two if you feel that that is UN it's unfair just to limit it to the top two I think that that we can have that discussion but we we're like three meetings into having committed to this process the last Workshop that we had this discussion uh hamu intimated this Pro process that's correct he did and it it I clearly remember you discussing it my concern I don't know if it's a the same as as Sheriff's but uh and for counselor if the bid the bid is what it is and you Ed other criteria for the other 55% should now at your negotiations you spiral downward because you're good negotiators thank you does that open us up for the ability of a bid challenge thank you commissioner fleser and commissioner lore I I share your surprise as far as this method of negotiation we specifically when this issue came up uh John and I both were surprised by it we asked the consultant have you done this in other areas he said yes basically we do this all the time this is something that the haulers expect and are used to they have not been challenged in any other Florida areas where they have gone through this process I know if I was one of the other BS and saw the end result might be there and that was one of the questions that I posed to the consultant if we choose the top two and ask them for their best and final price what would the what would number three say would that open things up and they say no we have not run into that problem before well the the committee uh decided to top two and and when I met with himatsu and and Sean I think last week when we went over very this very similar or exact and I asked that question then about you know why we pick the top two that just seems unusual to me and you know if if the vent or the consultant is telling us that yes it happened Statewide but there's always that one that doesn't happen true I think what you're using to seeing in requests for proposals is engineering survey things like that where we look at their qualifications and we accept the the various different types of for example survey companies one Survey Company might do very well at surveying just land West out west in the county large acreages other surveying companies might special ize in Beach renourishment type surveys those are the type of things that you've been seeing coming before you with our beach renourishment projects where we have accepted eight five different uh professionals to participate right and it however in that example um County and the county staff is familiar with those particular survey companies correct so and we understand that out west versus the beach we get that I think this is this is a different animal here I mean it's a 10-year commitment this relationship that we're going to have with one of these five uh 10 years and I think this is a I think this is a different animal can you provide us with examples of other areas cities or counties where they have gone through this process yes Mr chairman we recently you all are aware of Sarasota County that was an a negotiation process as well there um it is just it's kind of as Jennifer said and and it's just a common tool that some jurisdictions utilize to get that best and final price um and there's no like set structure about the top ranked um often times it's to entering into negotiations because with an RFP process it's not about just price as hamu noted um it's also about their qualifi qualifications and so you're wanting to not invite everyone back to the table you've already tried to kind of narrow down to the top two the top three whatever the jurisdiction seeks to utilize there um and then obtain that best and final price it's really just a tool to help reduce the the pricing for you know the citizens all right do you have any comments on this and Commissioners yes and no I I hear loud and clear what commissioner lore is saying about that I I thought it was kind of strange too but I I do remember discussion in the past of you saying that you were going to come back you know with with after kind of with the final two and try to negotiate further on certain things if there was I'm I'm not getting that warm fuzzy feeling quite yet I feel a little better since we've had a discussion about it and hearing what the ladies have to say uh because all these companies are qualified it's just you've went through the process of of uh asking certain questions such as like you said how many employees they have how many trucks they have how are they going to be able to do this or do that and I think we would do the same with the survey company that would that make sure they have the right qualifications and ask that we probably get used to using certain certain people that grade roads and certain people that do things that we're familiar with so we know they're qualified obviously I think all five of these are qualified I don't um I I don't know yet Madam chairman as as to as as to what I'd like to hear maybe some more discussion more something administrator well yes Comm commissioner Moss yeah um unless uh four and five would would drop out and this is this is for you to say having to do with matters other than price I think you know they would be eliminated for some of these other uh uh variables uh which you evaluate it unless they're dropping out regardless then yeah I think it it does seem that we will get the best outcome by considering the you know the entire uh the entire race uh if you know if if you will I mean that's what it is you know in in effect un unless some are like is as I said earlier some are going to be disqualified because of other variables I think that we're talking about well now we're talking about three different things so first hamu is our staff I'm sorry not just hu is asking if we agree with the rankings in the in the top the final selection Review Committee rankings that is that is the first question commissioner lore is concerned about the process and as part of commissioner lore's concern about the process he has raised not only just the process but if we do follow the process as it has been laid out limiting it to just the top two so that's that's three different decisions at this point M my at the end of the day my interest is in getting a good price for our residents on yard waste or not yard waste on garbage waste and yard waste on the whole package I haven't finished my afternoon coffee um but so if this is a process that's going to get us a better price than what's presented then I don't really I guess I'm missing where the concern is other than the concern for the people that have submitted bids that have been well aware that this was the process that we were going to go down because right now it seems like the conversation is really just helping out the people that have submitted the bids and no offense to anybody in the room that has that is not where my interest lies my interest lies in helping the residents get the best price so I think that we are getting wrapped up I mean we're going down a rabbit hole of most of just craziness so can can I just real quickly I just looked up the floor statutes real quick and there actually is a provision in there about invitation to negotiate and it goes in further the agency shall evaluate replies against evaluation criteria the agency May select one or more vendors within the competitive range uh with which to commence negotiation after negotiation the agency shall award the contract to the responsible and responsive vendor of the the agency determines which will provide the best value to the state I apologize last night when I again I looked at the RFP then in between meetings looked atenda nine that I just looked it up on the statute so kind of does contemplate that actually and that's what we were following it does and and there's there's two different things that we have to keep in mind here there's two separate types of uh proposals that we could have used we could have used the invitation to negoti where we would extend a list of Demands to all of the companies and invite them to negotiate with us knowing that we were going to pit one against the other here we went for the proposals because we wanted to see how many trucks there were what type of equipment they were going to use how they were going to be able to do things instead of letting out just kind of a flat contract for um uh asphalt or concrete or something like that in an invitation to bid here we went with the proposals to have you know a a much more developed uh response from the biders rather than just a price and yes I I have confidence in Jennifer and Bethany in their response that this is a best practice in dealing with a response to a request for proposals and Commissioners if I may add U this is decision one one of four tonight so decision four is going to be actually asking you about the top two or and then approval to even go to three four and five so this decision in front of you right now was to say that we we had a selection committee um this is accepting the ranking of the five proposals and how based on the selection committee review of the five proposals how they ranked by the various four options uh that that are in front of us today um and and so decision number four is going to come in where we're going to ask about going to negotiate so right now what I wanted to do is pause and stop and say you um you know requested staff to put an RP together we followed the procurement process C uh uh I think there was a great engagement from all the vendors they asked great questions we provided responses to them and again in that process we did identify that there was a schedule in there that talked about best and final offers there was there was a mention in there about negotiations they had opportunity to ask additional questions we didn't get any questions back about that once the timeline was done that timeline was provided with the mentioning of best and final offers before they submitted their price they could have asked more questions we would have been glad I mean we I think was it 170 some questions that we answered so um you know I I I think there was ample opportunity uh for for discussion and and the vendors were aware of of the process we were going to follow um so at this time uh I'm asking the board to to accept the final rankings as as you know prepared by the selection committee um when when the selection committee the second meeting and the final ranking was done basically the job of the selection committee was over they then handed it over to me as a solid waste managing director to then basically put all of this together with ultimate recommendation to the board and uh and and those are my recommendations uh will come to you in decision two and three uh and ultimately and four uh but right now the I I'm confident of the process that we followed I'm confident and and proud of the selection committee members in the job they did in assisting Us in this process uh I think it was a fair transparent process um and um and so at this time I I am asking the board to just approve the final ranking uh of of the selection committee does anybody have any questions on the final ranking of the selection committee yes commissioner Ean this was again not to be redund but this was based on 150 questions everything from you know need more trucks more employees or less trucks less employees exactly rain or shine all that sort of and and not only just q&as we provided a sample agreement and anytime we made modifications to our RFP or we clarified something in one of the one of the answers we provided a final sample agreement with redlines to show that you know a a vendor clarified something uh I think toward the end uh about multifam and it was a great question and it came sort of toward the end and and and it um it caused us to actually modify the the pricing form to make sure we captured that properly and they had a fair opportunity to propose on multi family um and and so we we updated the the uh not only the price uh proposal form but we also updated the sample agreement so they could see exactly what what the sample agreement is going to be that they're going to sign with with the board of County Commissioners and so there there isn't we didn't we didn't want to leave any ambiguity we even asked do you have any exceptions to the agreement because we didn't want to get further down uh in forming a relationship with one of the vendors and then find out that they don't like something that's in our sample agreement so again I feel proud of the process and and not only answering all their questions but also updating the sample agreement to make sure that it captures exactly the contract that they're going to enter with us for five to 10 years I mean this was based on more than just price period that's correct mam chair I move to approve the U selection committee final ranking I'll second that all right on this decision solely there's a motion and a second any further discussion from the Commissioners anybody from the public that wants to speak on the ranking just the ranking okay seeing none all in favor opposed motion carries all right thank you commissioner one decision down all right 700 to go three more three more so so one of the things that um as staff and and and what not we did when we evaluated it so what what we're looking at and this this ties into a later decision is wanted to focus on the top two firms right now the top two ranked firms that you had just previously approved and we wanted to look at the total annual price of of residential commercial and what we call supplemental Services um predominantly that includes the uh recycling at government buildings and government facilities in our Parks um so here's sort of an overall annual comparison of the four options and if they go over the the options on in a broad sense option one is the current uh service that we have right now which is once a week garbage once a week recycling uh once a week yard was Services um the only um enhancement that that uh we included uh in this RFP was a change the bulk a current provider has a has the ability for subscription customers to call for a bulk pickup they they have uh four days to to go pick pick up an old couch or an old refrigerator one of the one of the enhancements in this RFP is we have a routed bulk service so uh there will be a bulk truck routed throughout our community um so that basically my goal was to enhance the sort of the curb appeal of our community uh what was happening with the 4-day rule was I could put my couch out today uh they have four days to pick it up my neighbor calls in a few days later and and has something else that they put out and now that has to sit out there for four more days this will basically set a bulk day uh uh per week uh for for our residents they'll know what day to put something out and it will a truck will be routed through the through the community to to to clean up uh whatever items are out there um so that's uh option one subscription again uh enhancement with with bulk Service uh as you see here there's a there's a big range between uh FCC and and W uh Waste Management uh 23.8 versus 33 option two is Universal Services where we we put um our are unincorporated IND County residents on the assessment role just like we do for Universal recycling um and we were able to see a closer gap between the top two firms 22.2 versus 24.8 uh on an annual basis option three and four are similar in terms of the comparison of subscription and Universal the only difference being is the hauler would provide a cart for yard was service um and and I'll I'll show you some more details a little bit about about that in a second um again ultimately I felt that with looking at CED yard was service I thought that was going to wind up being the lowest price I thought that was going to wind up being the you know the the the option three and four were going to be lower than option one and two in my in my opinion uh because what we were doing with carded yard waste is we were eliminating having folks uh you know on the back of the truck uh and and manually picking up yard waste in our community uh the the uh the heat exhaustion if you will the dangers of uh we we've seen staff has gone out and seen videos the first thing that a uh you know the employee does when they get gets off the back of the truck it they kick the yard waste to make sure there's no snake or rodents uh in that yard waste pile right just to to to to be safe as a safety measure but again they're manually picking up a lot of the things and putting it in the truck so I expected uh again option three and four with carded yard waste because of reducing their liability increasing the efficiency those to be a l uh the lowest prices uh but but again um Market comparison between the two they're they're a little higher than option option one and two I mentioned Universal recycling in in in County this is on the non-ad assessment to all improved Residential Properties so this includes all residents about 70,000 over 70,000 residents um and you know in 2015 when we went to carded recycling program uh you know multiple haulers were recommending that we go to a carded uh recycling program it did a a tremendous job in increasing recycling participation back prior to 2015 we had 18 gallon bins um and um and not everybody even had the bins so by by deploying this recycling uh program Universal recycling we saw an uptick in uh in recycling participation I can tell you over the the nine 10 years and been to I've shared this with you the audits that my staff performs out there we do find an abuse on on some of the the recycling carts there are folks that are using the recycling carts for garbage service um and if we had a turn back clock um it we should have maybe waited on universal recycling it really should have been that we should have matched subscription service with subscription recycling that if you subscribe for garbage you get a recycling cart um reason being is then then that would have ensured that the folks that are that are you know properly recycling they want to use the recycling card for recycling purposes um the the other methodology would have been to reverse it you know uh not not not that I would have recommended it but but to almost require Universal garbage service and subscription recycling you know is is to give is to make sure they have an opportunity to get rid of their garbage and if they really want to recycle then they could subscribe for that service again it's probably not a practice that done out there um when when we when we look at the pricing from the top two firms uh the current single family rate that we have for for Universal Rec recycling is $2.94 a month there's a 167% increase in the price now this is on the assessment that we're looking at for the top rack firm uh $784 a month um Waste Management has an 87% increase to the current price that we're paying them right now going up to 5 .51 again these are initially proposed rates that's why we're talking about this you know sharpening of the pencil we we feel that we we could get them to to to compete and reduce that price to hopefully match what what all of our 70,000 residents are are are are currently paying U certainly we recognize that 10 years has gone by Fuel rates have changed St you know labor rates have changed um and and we we we we do recognize that there is an increased due uh but but we feel that we can get get better pricing on on this than what we're seeing now um I want to just before uh two more slides and then we're going to open it up to to to board discussion and public input um this is uh again from my my point of view I wanted to just highlight some some uh differences if you will with with the current program where customers provide their own yard waste cans for Yard Waste Service um again A lot of people are using the old 18-gallon bins they're they're using the garbage cart for yard waste sometimes because it's on a different day uh and what I see is residents are utilizing some type of container to put their yard waste in and and that's happening in our in our community and uh here's a short video of uh staff following a truck and how it's done currently I had an opportunity to go up to West Melbourne uh it it's it's more of a developed Community uh went there one early morning uh because they do have uh carted yard way Service uh they have over about 10,000 residents that that uh went to that they they did that in October of 2023 and um they they deployed uh the 10,000 carts and I think about only like 20 residents return return in their cars they're they're very happy with the service so here's a just a quick flip of how that works [Music] got a very clean and efficient process in in picking that up uh I'm not a reporter but I happened to catch a resident there uh uh right where this truck was picking up and uh good morning sir uh Jim leld 820 Hunters cre all right what do you think about this carded yard Wass program um well I like the carts um the only drawback I see is you know if you have a lot of stuff it might take you a couple weeks to put everything in the cart ien called to pick up the extras but uh makes the neighborhood a lot cleaner though does it we don't see as many pile of leaves floting around and everything so do you do you uh do you ever see your cart tipped over is it too heavy sometimes or um no I haven't seen any tipped over only afterwards if they sometimes they drop it off not ahead of time not ahead of time um do you think you would need more than one cart uh just a few times a year during the leaf season I would need more than one cart but so far we've worked our way around it okay and if you have extra you just wait for the next week that's yeah okay that's a big yard you have like right there well yeah the the trees yes too many too many of those oak trees yes gotcha gotcha gotcha so it's it's good for leaves yes no it's it works perfect for leaves yeah your your queen palms I guess you're able to put the Palm proms in yeah I'm not sure I haven't had to deal with that yet CU they new but yeah I'll probably cut them up and put them in the cam gotcha gotcha okay so overall you like you like The Carter program I'm happy with it yeah okay and if you have a lot of stuff you can request a service for I believe so but I gu well I appreciate it thank you so much sir no problem all right Dan Rather I I I'm sorry hamu I I have a question for you the the trucks is a truck for yard waste different than a truck for um garbage two two separate vehicles yeah two separate vehicles okay thank you the opening is a little bigger in terms of what what's being dumped as well so um I I just again I I I know previously last time I came to the board staff had visited uh carded yard was program I wanted to put my eyes on it firsthand uh and and as you'll see later and I I stand before you today uh recommending carded yard Wass program I from seeing it firsthand talking to the city manager in West mbour again there was some initial reluctance to it but uh from from their input it's like people started using the card yard Wass program before it even started uh they were they were very happy with that um again uh you know just happened to catch a resident there and and got some positive feedback but but I do I know last public meeting I I I do understand concerns about you know maybe having an extra card in the garage or not having a room or having certain HOAs that they that may not allow it um certainly recognize some some of those uh concerns but uh but overall in terms of I think uh both in terms of efficiency of pickup uh I I think uh and the cleanliness of of the program uh I think there are opportunities there I think I mentioned last time one of the other reasons I like CED yard waste program is in the past when we've had storm events our our huler uh you know has recommended U utilizing recycling carts in an emergency to pick up a lot of extra garbage um I've been reluctant to to recommend that to the board and and to deploy that however having an additional cart uh in in a storm event uh would would allow residents to use that extra cart for garbage service automated garbage service and so we so I feel that certainly knock on wood I'm not uh hoping for any storms here but but over the next 5 to 10 year uh time frame that we're talking about if if we were to deploy a carted yard Wass program it gives us an ability to respond to our community in the in the event of a storm so again for for some of those reasons that's why I personally uh do do like the CED yard Wass program at this time I I want to happy to answer any questions that that the board has um about any of the pricing or what what I presented um and then like you to you know open it up to the public I'm happy to answer any questions that the public has as well sure yes it might Is that West Melbourne do they have a separate distinct contract with their vendor or is that through Bard County it's a separate it's a municipality that has a separate contract with uh the waste management right is that do you know West Melbourne is a subscription or Universal believe they're Universal and is it doesn't didn't West Melbourne actually um roll it out with the yard waste and some people reluctant to ask for the container and then they saw their neighbors using it and then ultimately it caught on pretty quick it it did and one of the things that and we would do the same thing is provide a for deployment purposes we would provide the 96 gallon cart um have give residents you know three months to to try it out uh there would be smaller sizes available ultimately if the resident wants to return the cart uh it wouldn't it wouldn't change the price if you will in terms of what their monthly price would be uh however if if they don't want to utilize it it it's something that they could return um we uh you know in in possibly in discussing that in negotiations we we could we could talk about that with the potential vendors about that but but it's too early to tell right now and that's why we wanted to you know once we narrow down some options I think we would have the ability to to uh represent the board and and what your wishes are and with the subscription to yard waste uh it would be the same price it' be the same price subscription whether you wanted the yard waste or not that's that's correct right okay did you have any comments at this time commissioner Airman what's the approved container under the subscription thing the words 3050 if we choose not to go with carded yard was what's the approved container it'd be the same program use the old recycle bins yeah it's the same program as now so if the and and um one of one of the the next decisions that that that I'm going to have after sort of public discussion and input is is to ask the board to decide if uh if you want to go with carted yard waste or not uh and and so out of the four options to basically guide the process into narrowing it down to two um uh because we do have prices for for sort of all four options but depending on sort of the public input and the and the will of the commission about CED yard waste or not then we could kind of focus in on either Universal or subscription uh as decision number three but um but but if if we were to remain with customer provided you know cans then then there's a 4 cubic yard limit uh they could use whatever container they want uh they could use the old recycle bins uh they could just put it' be manually picked up it would be manually picked up just like it's it's done now so so our subscription uh and Universal plan with non-card yard waste you know allows allows for the resident to continue doing what they're doing with yard waste only option three and four included pricing if the huler provided a card uh for yard waste so just to kind of provide some parameters for where we're going in the decision-making process today we are going to be asked to make a decision whether we want uh options that include carted yard waste or non- carded yard waste once we determine that that will leave us with two decisions or two options and from there we'll have a discussion about those final two which would be Universal and subscription that's correct that's correct okay so commissioner Moss yeah I just have one question uh at the last meeting uh concerns were expressed about the size of the it was a 96 gallon it was too large for some people people it wasn't big enough for others and did you say something at that point that there were they'd have 90 days where they could you know what's the flexibility in terms of changing the size if if it were to be uh carted sure um I think for deployment purposes what we did last time and what we're proposing now on this RP is is provide a standardized cart uh it's for garbage and yard was it would be 96 gallon cart size residents would keep that for 90 days 3 months um and then they would have the ability to uh basically communicate to the huler that uh this is too big for me I want to go down to the smallest size which is 35 gallons or the middle size which is a 64 gallon cart uh so residents would have the opportunity get onetime free exchange on on what size fits fits their their their personal needs thank you okay if there is no other comments from the Commissioners or staff at this point we will open it up yes mam chair excuse me um it might with the I did read where the CED yard waste reduced uh say workers comp claims injuries to the vendor um did they provide you any information on uh would that come into play in their pricing by eliminating or helping their risk management by eliminating worker comp issues from jumping off the truck throwing a in the back was that one of those 170 questions they they asked questions of us but I I don't think we asked that question of them I think it was a a sort of an implied on our part that by by going with cter yard's program that it would reduce uh their their risk and liability which would equate to lower pric lesser for the taxpayer and commissioner lore in the pricing which H you can share again in a moment you'll see it is a small bit more but you're also including another cart so they're having to incorporate that into their pricing as well understood yes with with noncoded service it does require an additional person on the truck they tend to be to people to handle a truck the price has to be and that that's what surprised me that I I I was expecting carded yard Wass to be the lowest lowest lowest price of out of the four options um but because as Bethany mentioned because of the purchase of the cart that additional cart they're responsible for maintenance uh of that cart replacement of the cart if there's a wheel or something broken or a lid breaks they would have to the hauler would have to replace that cart uh at no cost so so I think that's what there was um ultimately I was expecting more of a reduction for that but uh from what we've seen I think staff reported that they usually have uh a driver one person in the back sometimes they have two people in the back uh and and especially after a storm or or things like that there's there's more resources being applied because of the number of phone calls and and and that we've seen in the past of of having you know uh our service provider pick up pick up additional volume uh so um so yeah we did expect a reduction in price by going to an automated service now just like we see with automated you know s waste automated recycling the the the driver is is in a air conditioned cab they're they're uh basically picking everything up they don't have to worry about a snake or a rodents inside the inside the pile um and um and they're they're able to service our community in a in a more orderly fashion one of the options we did include with all of this is a claw truck service so residents that have a large volume of materials they would be able to request a claw truck to come pick up the larger piles uh it would be a direct cost between the the customer and the hauler uh so we didn't want to provide CLA Service uh to everybody and include that in the price I think that would have just increased the price for everybody we just said that those residents there are some residents that may not even want a carded yard waste uh you know but we we try to get to the sort of a as Baseline of a price as we could for CED yard waste uh and uh and I think we've achieved that uh and again there's opportunity to negotiate maybe even some lower pricing you just mentioned they call it in U there has been some challenges with the call centers that are quite a few States over from us sure would that be in discussion as well that we would have a local call CER it was an absolute requirement this time around um that uh we over the past nine 10 years we we've seen too many too many complaints uh about you know again we understand the efficiency of of of of the huler and having a centralized call center I I think it's it's a certainly a tool that that they utilize but what we found is our residents when they call in either their their their whole times are long uh and and sometimes even though you know they're able to look up your area code and identify that you're calling from indianer County um even sometimes in Indian County we have city of Sebastian which had a different service than for example unincorporated in n county twice once right twice once so so again you know the The Operators doing their best to get get a call sheet to answer and respond to those questions that's why in this RFP we required a local call center we asked additional questions to make sure there was enough Staffing for the local call center so that the people that live here work here are answering the phones uh to respond to the needs of of our residents thank you how of to how often can you call for the cloud truck uh it's on an as-needed basis uh because it's again going to be a we do have pricing in the RFP the haulers have all responded as to what that cost would be so that is a cost that's going to be approved by the by our agreement so they can't charge more than that but if the customer wants to call multiple times uh they they're certainly free to do that there's not a limitation because again it would be a direct pass uh cost between the hauler and and the customer um subscription is easy because they're they're a direct customer of of the hauler if we go Universal um we would only pay for the Base Service uh the customer that has large volume of yard waste would pay for that extra service gotta okay Commissioners any other questions at this time all right then I'm going to open it up to the public anybody that would like to talk on this subject matter please come to the podium there's two podiums you're welcome to queue up behind it um when you come up please just state your name and address for the record even though we're well aware of Freddy W 459 57th Avenue R Beach Florida got one question I know this automatic system would take care of the rats take care of the snakes but what about the two guys where would their jobs be in no no Freddy uh good to see you and that's that's a great question um you know one of the things is you're you're right I think the safety and and and whatnot would eliminate those positions one of the things that we've done is is again with the local call center is we've created positions as well for folks to be in in the office working as well to have local people so we we've kind of uh again we cannot guarantee that the person that was on the back of the truck would be kind of you know called in at the call center uh but uh I think the uh additional there would be additional routes sort of created uh automated truck and the and even with compressed natural gas they have certain routes and and sizes that they can can be deployed um so uh it's nothing that we can guarantee that that person would be hired to do something else but uh but but certainly uh we we would hope that they would be able to be uh utilized for other other services I really hope that you look deeply into that because those are working people for families and to see them unemployed because of the new animated system sounds good to everyone who's receiving the service not to that family that needs that job understood welcome sir my name is John geneves I live at C season Terrace in Vero Beach the seasons Community I first want to thank the board for taking the interest of the people of Indian River County at heart and to me that's very important what's important to me too is my I've been on a board for 10 years in my community and I I'm not aware of any problems that weren't handled by Waste Management right away I personally have called them on a few items few things that were done and the fact that garbage pill was missing and fell into the truck they immediately responded replaced the garbage pil and no questions asked so I think it's a fine company it's a good service and I again thank the board for taking the time for the people of Indian River County thank you sir we appreciate that next welcome good to see you again today thank you Jeff hour 185 14th Avenue sorry I'm late um I have two questions actually probably humach you can answer that how with the other service providers have they discussed how it's going to work with uh hurricane debris pickup so uh no good question um we we have hurricane debris contracts in place uh in in case of an emergency like that um what we do require is a hurricane plan from our from our waste huler that's due annually so they would provide you know uh additional Services uh in in case of a storm uh it would be a an amendment to to their contract that the board we would staff would bring that to the board in case of a a storm event uh but they they they are required to provide a hurricane plan uh as part of their agreement and and it would be up to us and the board ultimately to approve that as to what additional Services we would need of them uh it's not guaranteed work when it comes to uh the typical hurricane with a lot of yard debris and and storm debris uh the county already has separate contracts with with teams that are that are sort of have the expertise of picking up that material my second question is the other providers have you asked them how they're going to deal with handicapped people who are unable to get their garbage curbside because there seems to be a problem with that too an actually ongoing problem with a couple of my customers no and and um the the current uh contract that we have basically has what we call backdoor service for for folks that that uh have a medical necessity and uh and the same requirement is in the in the new RFP uh basically the res would resident would provide the hauler uh with a note from their doctor and and the hauler would be required to get out of the truck uh and and bring bring their C from their garage down to the curb empty it and put put it back uh and uh and again that's something over over the course over time sometimes uh we have seen incidences where maybe a new driver is on a route and they forget that that's a you know a person that's designated for Back Door Service uh and and sometimes you know we get the phone call in uh lately I have not seen uh that many calls about that so well they 16051 19th Avenue Southwest he's been dealing with them for months in months and months so I've actually had to reimburse him because I can't clean his bins because they're not being emptied so something needs to be looked into all right thank you thank you so much anybody else oh welcome Glenn good to see you hi I'm Glenn Powell I live at 12845 83rd Avenue in Rosland and I also want to thank County staff and the county leaders and dealing with this way ahead of time and looking at all the options and having these these open forums I I was really interested in the conversation about the the carts for the Landscaping I have to say I have 14 houses that would be useless to me I mean I have my own house and I have a lot of rentals and when my tenants do yard work or if I help my elderly tenants do their yard work they don't just trim one Bush and the stuff fits into one cart you do five bushes you trim three Sable pums and and one cart two carts doesn't really do it I I could see if we're in an area where it's leaves in Autumn and you put things in the cart you know that makes sense but not with the type of uh yard waste that as I was sitting back there and listening to this it's like it it just wouldn't work I mean sometimes I have the long Palm frons which is easier for the staff now to just if I lay them out All in One Direction they go out of the the truck they pick them up and they throw it out if I put it in a cart the carts topple over if I have something that's thorny like buo and Vias I could fill one cart and and that's it I mean it's too fluffy if I have traveler's palms or white bird of paradise you know if I trim like a fraction of one of them it fills a cart so what the staff has always told me that to pick up the trash is just lay it out orderly so we could just grab it and put it away I I think you know one cart two carts just just wouldn't do it and then also when I do yard work and when I see my neighbors do yard work and I see my tenants do yard work they don't say okay today I'm going to trim one Bush they they trim all the bushes they trim five Sable Pals and you know this limitation of one or two cards and the sizing of it I just don't think it works and if we get rid of just just picking up the piles that are neatly laid out um I think we really lose something and this proposed carts it would be just useless for me and for my tenants I I I can really get the good part where no one really has to touch it and you don't deal with the snakes and everything else I mean I I get that but I just don't think it's practical in our community especially our community that's not you know the nice recently platted properties with the sod the three queen palms and the cotents yeah you pick up a frond you you put it in the card but there's a lot of our County and you know most of my houses that that that just it just wouldn't be appropriate so thank you for the opportunity to talk and and thank you for all the hard work thank you Glenn anybody else welcome good to see you you too thank you hello everyone um I name address Mar sadikovic 75 7575 First Street Southwest Vero Beach just a few questions to get an idea I like the way you smiling when I say my last name well I know you're going to go over there and spell it for her later quick questions uh first so how do we pay right now for a yard waste Does it include in a a real estate tax yes no no no it's not in the real estate tax it's if you're a subscriber for service in unincorporated in univ county that your quarterly uh invoice or Bill includes weekly Yard Waste Service okay again because I live in the country I don't have any waste um so but the trash every single um Family pays separately right and it is I believe on a quarterly basis so if you're a subscriber you get um a yard waste C I mean you get a garbage cart um and so you get that picked up once a week and you also get yard was service picked up once a week and then bulk is on on call basis right now the future the only change would be for subscription uh non- carded service it would remain uh carted uh garbage once a week yard waste once a week manually uh and uh bulk would be routed once a week okay so and uh right now how much it is um quarterly that the owners pay for trash it's 1116 so $33 in change $33 a month um a month quarterly I mean quarterly correct yes and the recycle is free no it's not free uh right now it's it's on the annual assessment so we call it Universal recycling so part of the landfill fee on your on your tax bill okay so that comes from the tax bill yes okay so um are you going to get uh from these companies approximate or estimate for how much they will be charging for a hurricane debris so at least everyone can be aware how much is that going to be or how is it going to work so we have separate contracts with wholly different companies to deal with hurricane debris that's not part of this contract what we have asked them is to provide a a plan in the event of a hurricane but we contract with somebody else totally separate okay and um last thing I also wanted to mention is kind of I agree with a gentleman who has a um properties um do they have trucks that actually to avoid these snakes and threats all these um risks with like you know they picking up and like claw trucks like where they have yes they do is there any way that can be used because again um I absolutely agree if it is a small subdivision where they do have a few leaves of the palm trees and Etc but if it is a big yard work there's a lot of yard trash that so part of this RFP process depending on which which option we go with if they if we go with a carted option for yard waste the resident would still have the ability to call the hauler for the claw truck if they decided they wanted to do that because they have more yard waist than would fit then they would be built separately for that the owners will be built separately the owners would be built separately and in a which option on one or two is it subscription or Universal for three or four is where the carts are and then if it was if it was um Universal they would be built separately right am I to to clarify we have the claw truck service for any for all four options it's available for all four options at an additional cost so if we remain non- carded yard waste there's a 4 cubic yard limit but if a customer trims like the previous gentleman mentioned their whole yard and they have more than four cubic yards then they the hauler was obligated to only pick up four cubic yards and the customer can request a claw truck to come pick up additional materials and pay the holler a separate price for that pick up okay and if I will decide to um take my um debris to a ow Road dumpster is that free still going to be free um to the convenience Center or the landfill Landfield yeah so both both the requirement at the customer Convenience Centers and the landfill still applies anything that's less than three Ines in diameter you know a certain size you can bring to the convenience center at and the landfill at no cost if it's large materials anything over three inches in diameter whatnot it has to go to the landfill and there is a fee for for that uh material okay um and um let me ask a last question please is there any of these options are actually benefits County not the owners County the uh government does any option benefit the government I mean I don't really understand that question but I would say that we if you're calling us the government are here to serve the residents of the county so whatever benefits the residents of the county um maybe I'm missing what you're trying to ask I I see so I wouldn't call you a government because you are in reality also the owners of each property okay I'm I would say like um more administra Administration that does it somehow benefits let's say the um um or which option will benefit Administration what I'm trying to see if there is going to be conflict between the owners that would be our best interest and um administrative um is there will be any additional income from that or something no okay that's what I wanted to know so there's no additional income to uh no we're not making money on this in any way okay got it thank you you're welcome anybody else all right thank you everybody for your input and the input that we have received prior to this meeting and at our last ones um Machu next decision point I guess we're at that point if I'm following your slides correctly that's correct commissioner so we're on decision number two um we're want to kind of guide in narrowing down the process and and um and again I can put back the slide that I think all of you have a copy of it but there's a slide that has um all the pricing if you will U on an annual basis and also on a on a residential uh monthly basis but uh as staff uh Swift staff recommends carded Yard Waste Services uh we feel it's a safer more efficient means of collecting routine yard waste uh in our community while providing an equitable cost to all yard waste customers and uh a direct cost to to those customers requiring excessive Yard Waste Services um uh again when I think about the future the next 5 to 10 years of our community whatever potential growth that we may have uh in our community uh have having a a carded yard waste program uh I feel fits with our growing community and and that's why I I stand behind my recommendation for a carted yard Wass program okay so Commissioners we are being asked at this point to decide between yes on carded yard waste or no on carded yard waste customer provided or part of this RFP so comments questions concerns on that question Madam chair I motion to go with carded yard way Services through the vendor okay is is there there is a second questions comments do you guys have any any input on that no no okay so the motion is toig boat flower not a big boat floer the the motion is to go with the carded yard waste provided by the vendor in a vendor provided cart anybody from the public want to speak on that seeing none all in favor all right opposed opposed okay that motion carries four to one with commissioner MOS senting all right next decision point so again I wanted to bring up the slide on the annual price now with the decision that you just made about carded yard waste we're looking at option number three and option number four um I did for purposes of whatnot uh looking at option three U comparison between subscription and Universal uh these are current pricing that you have again you have an annual price comparison of 24.6 versus 32.7 per subscription uh or a lower pricing of 22.7 versus 24.6 uh for the top two ranked firms and it's also on the right side we do have a broken down uh by by sort of a monthly comparison this does include the recycling uh fee that's on the uh non adorm assessment so even though when you look at option number three uh one thing to sort of keep in mind is that the the price comparison the 784 551 that that that price would be on the assessment um the if you if you go with subscription the the the comparison right now is 1752 versus 3202 in terms of a of a quarterly billing uh by by the hauler to directly to the customer there is a savings by going to Universal as you can see the the the reduction on to 1537 and 1957 so I wanted to just lay that out for you I have a question what is the current price for recycling per month that's in on the B I'm sure you already went over it but I don't remember thought we had a SL there's been some two something was it two something yeah I have it it's right here okay $22.94 $2.94 okay thank you all right that's each home each residence has per month and that's on the annual assessment right now and that's that's where uh I wanted to compare that here on this Slide the 784 and these are initially proposed rates but that would impact all residents of in County right so the slide you were on where it showed the breakdown per month for those that have Subscription Service you can't really compare your current subscription Bill to this bill because you're including recycling in that so it's a little bit more than what you see what I'm yeah so I just want to point that out before everybody kind of ran with some of that can I add to what you're saying yep is that and and the recycle Bill still going to stay on the tax bill at the end the year that's correct even if we go subscription you pay the garbage pickup but you're recycling the 784 is going to be in your T right right and it's like $96 a year or something that's correct sounds like is a good negotiation Point yeah okay um I'm sorry mam chair yes one question for remont sealing option three with Waste Management then going to Universal with Waste Management why the uh drastic reduction from 32 or 3753 to 256 one one of the the uh sort of advantages for for the huler that that we recognized between subscription and Universal was that the change to Universal would basically eliminate the billing uh by the huler they would no longer have a quarterly bill that goes out to the customer um they would avoid those costs there would be an avoidance of potentially uh a collection you know person that's going after folks that are not paying their bill uh on time uh and uh and and so by going to Universal just like we have for Universal recycling right now um we we designate a fixed amount of single family homes and multif family homes in our County and every month based on the certificate of occupancy report that we get from the building department we increase or decrease the amount of counts for single family and multif family throughout indan nura County for recycling when it comes to this decision of subscription Universal we would do that same sort of uh numbers for unincorporated Indian Nera County residents and the huler would monthly get paid uh on a universal basis so so that's where we felt like the and again it's evident here there is some slight reduction by FCC a substantial uh reduction by by waste management for for going to Universal right so if we explain it that I'm sorry madam chair that we're eliminating our accounting or lessening our accounting or our billing uh instead of getting a monthly or quarterly check from our residents the County's going to pay them uh per month I presume uh but I don't see the great reduction from FCC um to Universal but I do see it with Waste Management I would assume that um part of that reduction is because you have a baseline you know how many people you're going to be providing service for versus subscription even though they they have numbers currently it's still a a role of the dice as far as how many may or may not subscribe or drop out so with universal it's almost like a guarant gu aned customer based number you can base your pricing on and right now our subscription rate is was around 70% so now they're sort of guaranteed that additional 30% and then every month I mean I think last uh Sean Lis is here uh from what I recall about you know 100 100 new water meters being installed I don't know if that number's gone up or not recently so so you know 100 new homes are being added uh if you will per month so those are additional customers that they're guaranteed on a universal basis getting paid uh for monthly what what it also does is for us is uh again we we mentioned about the challenges for customers that do not subscribe for garbage service right now uh what we've seen and in parts of the county I have recycling staff that can tell you that they go out and do the audits certain uh areas of our community uh we find rental communities sometimes have this issue uh they're using their recycling cart for garbage service and what what happens here with universal is we would send an address to the hauler saying this is a new CEO here's 100 new homes in the county they would deliver a garbage cart and now yard waste cart to those 100 new homes so maybe even before they've kind of moved in and and and brought in their moving truck uh a garbage uh cart and a yard waste cart and a recycling cart would show up to that house because and we we say within 30 days they have to to get those carts delivered uh you know to those new residents that's upon their CEO upon the CEO um and we start paying for them uh starting next month the following month you they' delivered the cart and we start paying for those additional homes chair thank you you know since we've been discussing this and and I'm eager to hear from those who attended today if they so choose uh getting a lot of calls I'm sure you all been getting calls and and I do go out to the community and ask uh we've gotten some emails conversation and it it's more than apparent that there's now nearly 70% of the subscription service current in IND River County that means we have 30% nonsubscribers if you ask the subscribers if they would like service to be Universal it's a yes it's a given when you ask the nonsubscribers about Universal it's a guaranteed no they've chosen that fact they've chosen that manner but I want to look at the reasons why reasons why is we have a rather High um senior population they generate about this much waste in a week they don't need a 96 now a container you know they got to push his C back and forth and we have to get somebody in the doctor's note that their card back and forth there are many in that that category most of the 55 and older communities mandated and they it's part of their payment these people are on uh fixed incomes and I think it's it's it's borish for us to even consider Universal to impart upon them Waste Service that they may or may not need in addition if you have a family of four and you have a a crowded home and you need you need to have that service and this is quite contrary to what I BL I you you could tell where I came from uh those trucks came every day whether you wanted them or not and it's it's highly mechanized and they have trucks with dual trucks and recycling goes in one side two guys jump out of the truck and you got clear bags and you got so much governmental intervention with trash I I see that there are so many people that wish to just leave it be they love their convenience centers they go to their convenience centers and those subscribers still have their pickup service so I I in in my heart uh I I believe option three is the best it's almost leaving it alone but jazzing it up a bit leaving it at subscription service with costs this way those who have this service will still have the service you know the price is going to go up but the price has been going up every year anyway okay we have that CPI MH CPI has been notching it up every year and we have amendments and the relationship is there if we leave it that way we are creating less harm to our community and continuing good service to the curbside folks who want curbside and not for the others who basically generate that much trash in a week depends on if they have a dog or not and which cart they're going to put that in so I would I would like to propose option number three okay I want to ask a question real quick hamu hamu is there do we need to make this subscription Universal decision today can we negotiate with the top ones whatever we want to do for both options and see what pricing comes back or would you prefer that it's a great question uh you know we uh at the pleasure of the board so if if the board is not comfortable with with a decision uh on car on subscription versus universal based on the current pricing if you like us to negotiate with the top ranked firms to get final pricing on option three and four uh if that's the board's desire we we certainly the negotiation team uh working with the County administrator will certainly uh take take that direction and and come back to you uh at next meeting with with some final pricing we were looking for a decision that that one way or the other that would help us narrow down the focus in negotiations um but um I I I certainly understand the point that commissioner fleser is making um one thing and I'm going to throw out of Hil Mary I haven't talked to our consulant about this but when we did our master plan and and we utilized customer Consulting one one of the things that that was brought up years ago uh was pay as you throw program um and looking back at our consultant to kind of see is is you know um again this is something that that I have not even kind of talked to a consultant about but but I'm aware and in other communities um people have to go get the garbage garbage bags right they pay for those garbage bags in advance and then they put them out and they has to they have to be those specialty bags that they put out so the customers in control of how much garbage they're generating and also how much money they're spending the you know um I don't know if we can add that as a negotiation tool but if we were to possibly look at Universal uh and sort of negotiate a pay as you throw cart size rates if you want uh then uh again I can't guarantee that at this point we haven't talked to the haulers but but that that would be an ability for a senior resident that's producing very little garbage and they have a 35 gallon cart um if we're able to identify those number of customers I mean with the ability to track cart sizes the inventory control we have what's in our agreement the hauler knows exactly what cart size you have your neighbor has everybody in the community has we we could potentially look at that to assist residence they may not be generating that much waste uh again I'm just openly talking to you as a as a potential option I can't guarantee if if the haulers would want to play play ball with that um I don't know we don't have numbers on on how many customers that would apply to was that covered in the RFP no it was not okay we're changing I would stay away from something like that maybe that's not an option it's not one and one of the things is you know it's either three or four for fact that when we look at somebody who has not plan has 14 residences now whether um that 14 residences is um has pick up or not now will be mandatory pick up there that means that's that's 14 bills and you know right now and obviously there are renters the renters have the decision whether they want pick up or not and if it goes Universal now the owner has the univers reversal will be paying 14 bills regardless now I don't believe that there's going to be tremendous benevolence not on the owner of 14 residences or 20 residences or two residents they're going to pass off the cost Factor so now the renters are going to have to get an increase you know we're talking about affordable housing and and rents either way I just think it's a mechanism that we can avoid so much and reduce government and deliver the service that people want that they've grown accustomed to by going with subscription service and you know we we talked about the claw that's nice to have that on call but if you have the claw on a regular basis going around everybody's Lawns will be destroyed okay every every jurisdiction that has claws it's got to dip a certain way they're very good at what they do eventually and we've seen it during the Hurricanes when we've had to have massive claw service that there's a lot of holes in that that lawn so I I again I'd like to make a motion to move option three second all right go for it I tend to agree with what commissioner fer says when I when I look at this and do the math on this thing and um 70% of any if you have 70% of a County's business you should you should that's a pretty good chunk that's a pretty good chunk of business so there's a there's a business model right there that you're looking at to say okay well 70% that's a very valuable amount 30% as we know 30% are people that don't generate a lot of garbage that go to convenience center and excuse my phrase some of them are lazy dirt bags that don't just throw garbage on the ground or put it in a recycle container or whatever they do with it put it in somebody's been somewhere trying to beat the system I realized that but some of those that some of that 30% again is you know is very law abiding very very caring citizens of the community and all the stuff that J down radic garbage the difference between subscription in Universal in options three and four is that the the subscription is almost $2 million more year 1.9 million it's it's that difference year on the subscription but again the when you look at the the price it's only about $5 a month so you're looking at the price that people have the opportunity to choose whether they want to pay that additional $5 a month and I think we were all shocked at the at the rates that that FCC proposed for for Subscription Service wasn't High I was I'll be honest with you when we first talked about this a year ago and we'd have their discussions we all thought the subscription weight was going to go through the roof and it didn't go through the roof it it it it stayed you know I guess palatable right now um so we're looking at5 to $6 dollar a month increase people could choose that if we put the tax on it even though it is a you could say it's a savings you're saving $2 million a year that additional money is being taxed on the 30% that don't do it again I'm not going to say that all 30% of the people are good citizens because they're they're they're not so I think I think that's important to recognize I would almost I would I'm going to support option three right now but I would like us to take a look at it where we're at in was going to start in 25 where we're at in 2027 to take a relook at this and see if we need to if if if it's time if we're not getting the results we want from option three that we need to look at it again in years I don't think we're going to be able to switch it we're not going to be able to switch at Mid contract I mean that's what I'm asking him I I'm not saying I don't know that maybe maybe maybe we can we did put that in our current agreement uh we were not successful in getting our current holler to switch to Universal even even though we we had a provision for that in our current agreement we could certainly look at negotiations W with you know with this future contract to to to see if we can get a lock in starting price on universal it would it would adjust with CPI uh like like like it is written in the current contract um and but but it it's it's going to be a potential negotiation down the road you know 2027 uh with with with the huler to see if they would you know uh again we we'd have to get legal involved to make sure that it's it's written with an iron claw that that if the board in the future exercised a universal option that that the huler would agree to to to make that switch I would think I think we've seen the results you answered it a minute ago because some of these are favorable they're they're they're favorable because the company doesn't have to bill or they don't have to worry about collections y so if you look at this in two years and you just and you know you decide to go to Universal that that actually sounds like a pretty good deal for the holler I'm not saying you change the you change the the rating and you don't cancel whatever who ends up being the final selection you just say okay well you don't have to collect anymore we find it's better go to Universal I would think they would just do flips and say hey that's great we don't have to bill or collect anymore if we don't do subscription and commissioner irman if if you're if you're wanting to do that in the future then then I think what commissioner Adams mentioned a few minutes ago was if if the board was to direct us to go negotiate with the top two firms on both option three and four come back to you next month with the best and final offer for subscription best and final offer for Universal then then you would have a final contract price starting price October 1 2025 as to what that rate would be for our residents whether it's on a subscription basis or Universal basis um that gives you gives you a month to to reconsider that decision and it gives us the ability in negotiation to come back with a final and best and final off okay with that Madam chair that that mean that you're okay are you still seconding his motion well I I'll still support his motion I support but I I'd be okay with that if we have chose choose that's but the his motion is to choose option number three but if you want to I'd like to amend commission fler would you like to I I'm pretty strong on the he's not going to amend his motion based on what I've had the reaction with the community I I I can't see even considering Universal when subscription will be available but you could re you could resend your second if you do not want to support his motion that he's not that he's stated I don't have a problem with that I think it might be a good idea we might be able to reduce the $2 million indifference with it so I don't know but I'm okay with delaying the the decision for you want to put the camera on the commiss or or subscription I think you know where I stand right now so what would you like me to do I would like for you to do whatever you're comfortable with and whatever you want to do I just want to make sure that both of you guys understand that his motion I understand okay is to move forward with option three right and you're seconding that to vote to do that however it seems like you may have changed your mind to go to both options and if that's the case you he's not going to amend his motion you can resend your second well just I'll second his motion you will second his motion okay the second stance commissioner Moss yes thank you um I favor subscription um definitely we have uh many seniors on uh on fixed incomes with very little garbage and we you know we heard that last time but in addition to that we also have a substantial number number of snowbirds who would not be able to opt out of universal coverage so I I definitely favor uh Subscription Service um if we could just vote on subscription versus universal though because I did not vote on the carted and and option three includes um CED and we already if we're just talking about option three it's subscription with CED so well so I'm in I'm in favor of subscrition yes I'm in favor of subscription but if you look at this I'm talking about option three option three is subscription with carded we already voted on we already voted on carded we voted voted on card right and I I didn't vote for carded so she V I voted no I voted no on carded so I'm saying you know technically if you want to get into the Weeds on it I really don't want to get into theed on anything voted no oned so okay but that that motion has been decided so now there we're not revisiting carded versus non- carded so I can vote Yes on options you can vote any but and I'm in favor I just want to be clear anybody can vote any way they want and make any motion they want and second any motion or not second any motion that they want From Here to Eternity you guys have that ability cover the color of the cards just we'll leave it up to them commissioner I just I just want to clarify though that and from what I and County attorney can clarify but as the motion stands for option number three subscription then the decision four would be for us to negotiate with the top two rank firms on the subscription with carded yard was service only we would not come back to you with a price for Universal service I just want to make sure I clarify that correct that's correct that's correct so if you want both price ing then we would need a different motion trying to sell both pricing I think he just trying to make sure that everybody up here understands what they're voting on that's correct I pray I pray that that's so there's no confusion in the future commissioner lore do you have any comments on the motion that's on the floor or would you like for me to restate it no okay clear thank you uh we had some clarification already yeah thank you madam chair you know we're talking about a two $2 million swing right now from 4 to three before the sh pencil sharpening happens have to keep that in mind let's keep in mind that 55% of our recycling is contaminated with garbage let's keep in mind that we're talking about an October 1 2025 contract long ways from now with a potentially 10-year contract to this 2035 you all know what our population is doing we all know that we're called the Treasure Coast in our opinion Indian River county is the gem and Diamond of the Treasure Coast we're sitting here on April 24th of 2024 thinking about subscription versus universal but we're not thinking about 28 29 30 31 so I am leaning towards option four not only for the taxpayers and I know and I get the burden that you've brought up Commission fleser I understand that but what does Indian River County stand for does it stand for uh illegal dumping does it stand for uh rental people that are throwing their trash in the backyard I know it's a burden on the on the renters I get all that but what is the image of Indian River County and I ask you to think about that for the next 11 years 11 and a half years because the decision we make now and by the way I completely disagree with revisiting this in a couple years about Universal because that affects how the vendors have already made their bids additionally uh you know there's a process uh through the state that U was very familiar with on how to get this on the tax roll so having said that you know often times we forget that our recycling is on the tax roll and I didn't remember a lot of belly aching over that several years ago go but I get it the economy was different I understand that but as we move forward we have to look at Universal it's the industry standard we know that uh everyone around us is doing that I think it's going to reduce uh a lot of again not to be redundant the illegal dumping uh and probably lessen uh some of the load that are at our transfer stations we know our transfer stations are here to stay we've all agreed on that already so uh with that I uh I can't go with option three I'm sticking with option four so for my several cents I I would my interest like I said at the beginning of the meeting is getting the best price for the residents and the majority of the residents that are going to be using this service not today but the road up the road and I have I completely agree with commissioner lure's comments I think that um you know whether we have to take into account the recycling and the stuff that's going on with that we have to take into account the impact that that's having on our landfill and our landfill system and look at that program as a whole quite frankly the reason I asked kachu about negotiating on both options is because I'm interested in getting to the best price for the majority of the residents the majority of the residents today and the majority of the residents that are going to be moving here in the future um and I do think that if we allow that negotiation to happen the pencils will be sharpened and we will get a better price I think everybody has heard what we have to say and where what we feel but I I'm not really prepared necessarily to move and support fully subscription at this point without really having an opportunity to look at what the pencil sharpened subscription versus universal would be because we're always going to have an elderly population I mean for goodness sakes this is Florida we're like the retirement capital of the world um we're always going to have people that are going to be bad actors yes but how do we create a program that's whole and addressing the needs of the county in the next 12 years I mean because this isn't going to go into effect to your point for another two years and then we're stuck with it for 10 years so it's a big decision to make and I think it does need to be based a lot on price and I just feel like it's 70% today of our population and I understand what you're saying about 30 versus 70 and and all those 70 are always going to be yay and a lot of the 30s are always going to be no and I understand that you know elderly population may not produce a lot of garbage and you have to have special services for people that are unable to bring their garbage up but 5 years from now that population is going to be astronomically larger so the 70% that you're talking about today is going to be a whole lot lot more people and that 30% is probably going to change as well as these things are required over time so because of the different things from an educational perspective on people using their recycling bins is garbage uh different renter issues multifam we have more multif family going in right now so I'm not saying I'm not for subscription in the long run what I'm saying is is I want to make sure that at the end of the day what numbers we're getting are the best and final numbers on both options and we're basing Universal versus subscription on the best and final numbers right now we're basing Universal versus subscription on initial numbers and initial and initial thoughts from each company not final thoughts and final negotiations and that's where I'm more comfortable making the universal versus subscription com Madam chair I believe the the RFP would not allow us now we we cleared up the water early in the meeting and I'm good with it now because as the administrator mentioned but now to complicate this and have our team go back and talk to the top two which I'm comfortable with now and say uh sharpen your pencils on on universal or subscription well now we're opening up another other can worms it's not in the RFP so either today we're going to vote option three and move forward or option well doesn't look like an option four but U but I I would just ask you to look at the future of this County what we stand for and what we the gator the greater gain that we will have in this community with less trash piles with less shoty neighborhoods and and we're moving too fast as a county to to go down that path in my opinion have a lot of yeah Mr de two points um this is the last opportunity that you will have for the next 11 years to take a look at this issue you know you're going to get your best price now and if you do decide to take a look at option three and four and get the best price it costs you nothing it costs you nothing to take a look at the options that will be made available to you you have the benefit of having them negotiating a a giving you have the benefit of them giving you your best price on both options that will last for the next 11 years and you will not have that negotiating power again for 11 years and it costs nothing to take a look at those two options thank you and I I would just say that realistically everybody knows what each other's numbers are now so if they want no matter what we decide in this decision right now if they want our business they're going to have to beat each other and that's the bottom line whether it's Universal or subscription or a mix of two or negotiating on both they all know what their numbers are and I would guess that number one is going to drop number two is going to try to beat number one number three if we go that way we try to beat all of them number four all down the line that's not what's proposed I know I'm just going down a rabbit hole but they all know what each other's numbers are and and I would agree with with Mr de brw it doesn't cost us anything to ask them to bring back as many options that not as many but to look at those two options and bring it back better numbers yes Madam chair but if if we're able to get the best price today only and then 11 years from now we wouldn't be able to do that I I I get it but there's a CPI as well price is going to go up so no matter what gets torn down we'll re be rebuilt up there a cost of doing business and it's going to be shared by those who subscribe to the service so I I can alleviate that by not committing the taxpayer to that game and that theory of reducing the risk of an increase but it's going to happen either way how many amendments have we had for all of the contracts continually uh can can you identify one of the one of the last amendments on one of our haulers what number we were up to sure I think in the 20 uh Republic right okay and that was that's recent history correct that's correct okay things change there a cost of doing business and those rates will change so there is no safety marker in committing to let's see if we can chisel down the price on both of them you know I I just I's engage CPI I me it's not a true CPI or cost of doing business increase it's it's capped at a certain percentage to our benefit not to not to the haulers benefit there is a cap but uh again the likelihood of it not being imposed is very very very slim it just costs more between labor equipment availability dipping fees I mean it it all adds up yes commissioner Moss I think it's a safety factor to commit commissioner Moss I just have a question so so you're thinking um I just want to be sure I understood what you said so you're thinking um it's better to have them come back uh with the two options um you know the basic facts won't change but the numbers might is that is that what you're thinking we might get a better deal that is my if you will yes that is how I feel today that we may most likely will get a better deal okay if on universal versus subscription if they are allowed to negotiate on both and bring those back at the next meeting the top to or whatever yeah yeah I'm I'm okay with that but if that is there is a motion on the floor however that does not make that happen so commission go ahead sorry I was I was gonna say I I I I I appreciate all the discussion I think what we were gonna what I was going to do is to make a staff recommendation and then allow public input and then allow maybe a final vote vote on that but I know you have a motion on the floor uh but as as staff I I uh for the future of indera County for what we see what's going on with recycling contamination with illegal dumping uh some of you may recall um you de you designated me as your green government coordinator we went through the process of becoming certified Green County I was proud of that moment when we did that we we still have some signs across our buildings designating you know Indian County as a Green County but one of the things that I I still remiss about is we still have folks going on uh throughout our community doing cleanups for illegal dumping sites throughout our community we get reports from the sheriff's department about illegal dumping sites um people hate to say this I know commissioner irman mentioned this some people are lazy in our community they do not take the time you know we all generate waste it has to go somewhere and there are people that do the right thing and there's people that don't and and we we uh look at the future we don't have somebody that's sweeping our our streets every day seven days a week and and and by having a hauler that can go to directly to the house where the waste is generated and properly get put into our landfill um and to make sure our recycling is topnotch if we ever want to to build a recycling facility in this County and process our own recycling uh we we we're not going to be able to invite a potential vendor to come build a facility here if we don't have sort of universal garbage collection because they know that there's abuse of universal recycling going on with subscription service so when I look at the next 10 11 years and if we want to attract a recycling plant and process our own recyclables here then I strongly recommend you know that we look at Universal garbage collection uh for for our community good yes of course I don't I I I I really don't disagree but I look at a 70% margin of Business by a of of customers by a business and I look at 30% that not all the 30% are bad citizens sure as to what are we what are we really doing we're we're increasing taxes we're putting the difference between the two would be $2 million that's put on the back of the taxpayer with regards to this you know I am very Pro Recycling and very Pro wanting to build a have somebody come in and do our own recycling here in the county I don't know if that I don't think all all that 30% of the people don't jeopardize it I think that that I've been around here long enough and with my career and stuff that there's always going to be bad actors it'll never be perfect there's people that's going to dump their garbage on the side of the road because they're just that kind of person so I I think it's a matter of choice right now for me is why why I say subscription I'm okay if it doesn't go my way I just feel that's where we are right now because of the 70% in a business model is just you don't get that in any business sure sure McDonald's doesn't have 70% of the fast food business in the country God would they give they give an arm and a leg for that and I think as one of the negotiation team members though what I think if if is what you know County attorney mentioned is if we have the ability to go negotiate come back to you in a month with the best and final offer for both subscription and Universal you'll have a final price uh that you'll know that will impact either 70% of your residents or 30% of your residents and um you know uh I I rather at least have an opportunity to bring that number back to you in a month and like I said I'm okay with that but I'm not changing my motion that's fine one thing much when when you said you know you go back and we'll negotiate both I I I think we're talking about contamination which is not 50% contamination 50% of our recycling contaminated in C certain communities I mean s sou flag here now you just certain communities certain parts of our community probably over 55% um I mean and in others and it equates to an overall of about 14.5% when it gets down to the recycling I think it's more like 20 20 higher than 20 26% 26% okay so yeah no it's not so yes there are certain areas that there is an increase in occurrences right okay I mean one depending on what decision we make I mean in the future I may come back and request the board for some additional code enforcement assistance you know to do that absolutely and may may maybe that's an answer okay a lack of enforcement is not does not constitute an additional cost Factor okay that that's a concern but in in in essence I have a concern that the reduction will be contaminated because there's dual TR facts and there's a preference by the Haller and there's an obvious preference by others to go in one modality or the other so I believe that the reduction will be contaminated it will not be the best possible price for the subscriber or the universal citizen I think it's this way we've seen such disparity in the original numbers where uh uh Sheriff you you explained that the uh when you you brought out one of them you couldn't realize why they couldn't reduce so much and then what it's going to happen again so I don't think there's any benefit in allowing for both options to come forward I don't think we're going to gain anything if not their preference will come out that's about it so I I I think it may may only contaminate our decision in the future that's my thought all right mam chair real quickly of course I can say that uh our staff particularly U's team uh we recognize him and his team for the awards they've won we recognize the hard work that they've put in uh I've had him speak to groups for me uh on occasion and we have to trust our staff that is what our administrator is building this team about uh I think sometimes we have situations where sometimes uh we are sitting up here and we we doubt our staff uh but they are the Cornerstone of what we do they do a fantastic job option four is our staff recommendation for a lot of things that we've already already talked about today uh to include the preservation of our community and our County and as Mr de said uh this is One-Shot deal you're going to live with it for 11 years uh and and by going back in a few years and entertaining Universal that's not that's that's not the deal that's not what our vendors bid it on uh and we can't go that way so I would uh just like was pleading with us for option four and also stick with that but U doesn't look like it's going to happen all right thank you we do have a motion on a on the floor so since it was made quite some time ago I will re um try to summarize that the motion by commissioner flesher is to move forward with negotiating on option three only which is subscription carded Yard Waste Service anybody from the public wish to speak on that please just state your name and address for the record John Castle Grande vice president for Coastal waste of recycling 2480 2 Avenue Boer rone Florida thank you very much for allowing me to speak listened uh to the discussion going back and forth it's a very tough decision um and for me this back is AK when do I make a point Point uh to speak either on the rankings or on on on on the items you have narrowed it down to uh options three and four uh your carded uh yard way service now the discussion obviously is with uh subscription or or uh Universal service I hear that it's an 11-year uh commitment I hear about how important the pricing is um there's nothing in the RFP uh that stated uh that it would only be the top two firms that were ranked as a matter of fact Coastal there was a tie for second uh with Coastal and waste management and during the second evaluation uh the tie was broken through discussion aachu and his and the evaluation committee uh uh broke the tie uh there was really no formal breaking of the tie but if you look at the points it is it's a dead heat between waste management and Coastal a second so why you know again I was asked to speak on on the rankings and I didn't choose to speak because it was you know second or third but I feel that if this you have all this time you have until October of 25 you have a lot of time to make that decision and you look at the pricing today and if if now you have these two uh chosen options three and four and not to get into the entire ranking and evaluation again but why not get best and finals from all five companies it can't hurt to I heard that said you know a couple of times Waste Management on option three is $8 million a year higher than FCC they are $7 million a year higher than Coastal but yet they get the opportunity to bring their price down so I ask this commission to think about giving best and finals everybody it doesn't hurt Republic on option uh three is uh their their their price is 23 million I'm not just speaking for Coastal but I'm speaking and listening to a decision that has to be made and you've given yourself enough time to make that decision I think that by giving best and finals to all five companies I can say the top three and include Coastal but it that would give you the benefit of the doubt and let staff come in and say okay you know what let's see what that does because I think what'll happen is it'll keep FCC and waste management pencil even sharper if they know there's three people also part participating in all five of us we've seen each other's numbers we see what what's going to happen and I I truly ask that you can consider the uh best and finals from all five companies thank you thank you welcome good evening now everyone um County Administrator County attorney um thank you for being here uh so just a couple things um James Haring to manager and M Shores I want to note that the the town while our current relationship with our current vendor is subscription as it were uh the town has an ordinance which requires uh Universal essentially we require everyone to have a subscription so to speak um and while you may uh you know look at the Town relative to its demographic in a in a certain way we do have a couple of very large uh multif family condominium type communities in our town uh and a lot of the folks in those communities are on uh fixed incomes uh and if you if you're familiar with the town and you come in you you'll know uh you'll know those folks and you know where I'm talking about but the uh the important piece and to to amplify what commissioner lore said about the the nature of the community and and the aesthetic as it were I think is really very well served um uh by Universal I I think as to the narrow issue of the motion before you right now I think it's a mistake uh to arm the uh negotiating committee with only one option um essentially and telling people here everything they property already know uh if I'm at the table I'm negotiating I want some leverage um having only one option for which we're discussing doesn't really provide us with any leverage uh but I will note as a County resident uh that I think again commissioner LA's comments were very well taken about the long term and what does the county look like and and and where do we go with this type of issue or this type of option I appreciate the demographic I mean my mom lived here for many many years and you know thankfully lived to a you know a ripe old age but she still had garbage she still took it out I mean regardless of the amount I I don't I don't think that that's um I don't think that that should be dispositive of this issue and um respectfully um commissioner I think the comparison to that 70% piece which I think is a vital number and a vital percentage in considering going to Universal I actually don't think that's a valid business model comparison because in the franchise we providing uh a monopoly essentially there there there is no uh competition so that 70% number is not one that you could say compare to other business models in a community where there are other competitors within that um so uh with that as to the narrow issue I would uh I think the council or the commission rather would be well placed to um uh respectfully uh not support uh commissioner flesher's motion uh for just a singular um option uh again in the town we have essentially Universal so we support option four uh I would be making that recommendation to our Council but I ask you to consider the negotiating piece as well relative to a uh you know a narrow a narrow Focus right now that thank you thank you have subscription mandatory Subscription Service in that jurisdiction pass an ordinance to make it mandatory subscription mandatory so you don't have any contamination I I I can't account for contamination I know it exists I know it exists at a high percentage I me that that I think is is documented uh for us uh what we have we have a town ordinance that requires people to have uh Solid Waste you know Services Recycling services um however as it stands right now in our particular franchise agreement um it is uh a subscription agreement and I can tell you that that's a it's an administrative issue for the town uh for the vendor and I think I mean in the end I think you do better with universal in the pricing but I throw that in as an aside but our requirement is that everyone have it per ordinance um however the relationship right now with the vendor that one to one Rel relationship is is subscription so everyone is required to subscribe thank you different I would sorry Jim I would I I do agree with you there's kind of monoply there is no competition once we get the vendor to come in there like that but still there's 70% of of citizens that chose to subscribe to that yes sir that's that's that's the the emphasis that I'm that I'm talking about there 70% of the people that had a choice to what what they wanted to what they wanted to do 30% chose not to again good as Citizens are not they had that choice too in my opinion everybody's happy thank you thank you yes welcome hi Joanne Stanley Republic Services I concur with John and that um when we during the RFP process they did say best and final offers so we thought at least all of us would be able to get to the table to give our best and final fin offer and I think it it just behooves the the the county to look at the pricing um as you looked at the first the pricing itself and who's got the lowest price in in three and four and why wouldn't you ask all five haulers to actually give you the best and final offers thank you thank you it's got to do the anybody else as far as going to Universal service to where everyone everyone has it there are a lot of people in inur county that traveled from down south up to up North for several months of the year if the county would be collecting monies for the year then why couldn't someone that only is only down here for six months col and say I'm going to be up in Massachusetts for the night next six months and their service has stopped that's an option you might want to look at because you have a solid waste District somebody can pick up the phone and take care of that and I think that would put that would make it a little easier on you commissioner moss and everybody else that has somebody that that you know constituents that are only here for six months out of the year just an opinion thank you anybody else all right oh welcome back yes ma'am thank you um question um you mentioned about that um not everyone generates enough uh trash and that can be arranged and you mentioned about the garbage bags um if they don't generate enough trash is it like they're going to pay less that that is something that wasn't part of the FP so it's not a it's not an item that's in front of us today okay because it did sound like the system in Germany which is perfect system I wish we could adopt the same one but uh I don't think we're ready for it and um and then it would be following that what if I don't generate any Trash then I'm not going to build completely um about the um um I would like to ask um all um uh Commissioners please support um number three uh several reasons for that is because yes we would like to keep the same what we have we're happy I don't think um anyone uh um actually called you and ask you hey let's change the system is there you know something what we can do better um because um what we have is really good and works for everyone um I believe that that all vendors already had an option to do their best um it is their best they calculated the numbers how much they will pay for the trucks for the services for the people for the staff and Etc um I I don't think it is right to break their legs completely people have to eat and p uh pay their bills I'm sorry but you already did your best guys and I appreciate that um I do only one bit for all my clients I don't do a second one so um that something is fair and I really really um beg you to support uh option three and commissioner flesher thank you thank you so much anybody else all right seeing none again to summarize the motion at hand the motion is to move forward with negotiating solely on option three motion by commissioner flesher seconded by commissioner irman all in favor opposed the motion fails two to three is there a substitute motion motion option four there's a motion for option four is there a second the motion fails for lack of a second is there another motion yes I I move to consider pricing for both both options three and four I will second that any discussion consider all five we're not at that point we're not at that decision-making Point yet okay all right is there any discussion on that motion anybody from the public all in favor I opposed motion carries 3 to2 with Comm Commissioners fleser and lore dissenting okay next decision Point okay thank you Commissioners um so final decision for the for the night uh staff recommends that the Swift board authorize negotiation team to pursue simultaneous negotiations with the top two firms of FCC environmental services and waste Management Inc to obtain their best and final offer uh we're also asking for authorization to negotiate with subsequently ranked firms should negotiations with one or more of the top rank firms fail okay so what you're asking to do is to negotiate with the top two that is your recommendation we've heard from everybody on that recommendation so is is there a motion authorized negotiation with subsequent ranked firms should negotiations with one of one or more of the two top ranked firms fail do does that mean is that one motion or what is a failed negotiation good question if we get to the negotiation table and one of the firms says no I stand by my price I'm I'm not I'm not budging that's not failed I mean they make the same offer I I I means I'm out correct failed means it's no more game take my chest pieces I'm off the board that's what failed means build never means I'm sticking with the same price no I mean they could stick with the same price well I'll correct myself what what I'm saying is that if we're we're getting a best and final offer so certainly if they don't budge and we get a best and final offer from from another the second company or whatnot that's better than that price then Ely we're going to come back in a month and recommend the lowest price to the commission so that leaves the ability to cherry pick yeah so is hold yes Mr de bral I don't like what I see you let me do something El do you have a slide that shows the points that were awarded for one through five to see how close they all were I tried to get it before we came down but it it was taken off the website I'm I'm checking with Jennifer to see about the points uh there was an initial point system when we did the initial ranking uh then there was a subsequent uh ranking of the firms to arrive at the top the the ranking of the top five firms fin ranking of the top five so we can understand what kind of point spread there is so uh the initial ranking of firms was done on a points basis and then the subsequent rankings the what the committee came to at the first meeting was one through five so there's never been a compilation I can pull up kind of a a a graphic in a minute or to on my computer that will show you um the math per uh Committee Member and how many points they scored each initially on but that did change for a couple of folks as as we went through the process but there's uh I don't have a good I don't have that available in the way you're asking for it though okay so Commissioners I do I do have a slide that shows you the annual prices for all five companies for option three and four and sort of the single family pricing for um so here's all five companies for option three and four again the top two ranked firms of FCC and WM by the committee ranking that you've approved uh are are slated there but you could also see the price differentials of other company um I don't have a side by side but it is in your I believe in your printed packet um the next slide is a single family comparison of option three and four of how the price ranges on on all five companies um um if if that helps at all in terms of your decision what are we deciding so what we're deciding at this point is basically how many people were negotiating with on option three and four are we negotiating with the top two are we negotiating with the top three are we negotiating with the top 17 I mean that's kind of what we're decid that there's not 17 I don't mean that but that's what we're deciding yacha can you go back to the slide the amounts again did we not okay we're talking there not a positive vote for we're dealing with these two companies you no you voted to rank the firms there was a vote The Firm on the on approving the one through five ranking but it wasn't specific to who to negotiate with it was just to accept those two rankings or the list of rankings I'm sorry and just on option four no no no no okay see that let me back up because it's there's a lot going there's a lot of moving Parts here yes there are the first motion that we decision that we made was to approve go back to that slide please was to approve the ranking by the committee of one through five we accepted that ranking this ranking we that's all we did we accepted the committee's ranking that was one the second decision we made was carded versus non-c carded and the decision that we ended up with was yes to carded yard waste the third decision that we just made was which options to negotiate on we chose to negotiate on options three and four which is subscription with carded and Universal with carded now we're being asked basically who to negotiate with the rankings of those who have already been locked in by our first motion at the beginning of the meeting so at this point we already have one two three four five that we've accepted based on the committee's recommendation of those rankings the question now is staff is recommending the top two the conversation has been more than the top two or the to it's been kind of all over the place what I'm saying is what I said earlier anybody can make a motion on anything so if you guys don't want to negotiate with the top two if you want to negotiate with something different or if you do want to negotiate with the top two somebody needs to make a motion to direct that negotiation I'll do that okay let's go to the next Slide the the one with the amounts on it I let me start from the beginning before I put this perspective and y'all can shoot it down or you can you know approve it either way I'm not offended by this at all I agree from the very beginning and I'm just like commissioner lore with regards to how we came to this point with regards to I you know maybe it's just old school you go with the best lowest bid because you assume that all these people are qualified to do do what they need to do based on the the ranking and all that sort of stuff when I look at this chart in three and four mostly on four I see that the prices are all very close they're all within other than Waste Pro C which I think they're I don't know if they're still in this or not but they're they're the highest if you take the top four FCC Waste Management Republic and Coastal E I think when you look at all those they're all within a million and a half dollars or so from the lowest to the highest if we're going to do this I think we offer it to all to those four to to those four to come in based on on on the rankings I'm okay with two if like I said I'm not offended by that whatever y'all side but I'll make a motion to say we have staff go back and talk talk to the uh four FCC Waste Management Republic and so your motion is to noo your your motion is to negotiate with the top four with the best right go back to the ranking okay one those right there the top four yes oh option four which includ I'm just looking at Option four option three difference because so you're you're suggesting that we negotiate I just want to make sure everybody understands we negotiate option three and four with FCC Waste Management Coastal and Republic correct that's my motion that is your moot motion yes is there a second to that motion that motion fails for lack of a second chairman if I may um the reason why staff was recommending the top two firms is again it was not just necessarily on price when we evaluated and asked additional questions and whatnot one of the things I can tell you that changed my mind is one of the requirements we had was to use CNG fuel or some environmentally friendly Fuel and um one one of the things that um for me I think uh three out of the five companies had had compressed natural gas uh one had biod Diesel and one was going to uh sort of for us our community go away from CG to go back to uh using diesel fuel um so there were other differences besides price that for me dictated how I rank the firms um and and what I was looking for in terms of our community um also you the capability of providing services to substandard roads and things like that uh the capabilities of their call center the amount of trucks and Staffing there was a lot more involved in our ranking than price alone and and we felt as a committee that the top two ranked firms were the best of the best that provided the best proposals and could meet all of our needs not just in pricing i i i and that's why again stand behind staff's recommendation of of just negotiating with the top two firms um it gives us more leverage that we're not just going with somebody that can sharpen the pencil the best because we may not get the best vendor for our community uh there there you know um again we we're I think the process was great I'm glad that we got five vendors to respond rather than say one in another municipality in our town um so I'm happy with that but but there are a lot of uh factors that went into our decisions about ranking the firms and and again um sticking with the best of the best is why staff is recommending uh it gives us more leverage in negotiations as well uh again when we open it up to all five we're going to just go back to bidding on price and and we may lose out on on capability okay I I can I just no hold on oh not to I we're we're going to take a 5 minute break a because I need a break and B because um I need a break e e e e e e e e e e e e just put it down I don't know me see call the meeting back to order and let's um I'm going to try to get us to a decisionmaking point what we are being asked to do right now is determine who we negotiating with staff's recommendation is the top two I think staff has said that that recommendation includes other points awarded for things Beyond price although price was the majority of well 45% or 45 points we've heard everybody else's input on that we've seen the numbers Sean is here to impart some wisdom Upon Us hopefully hopefully some wisdom maybe maybe not Sean Sean leki utilities director I just maybe wanted to clarify one thing that we're struggling with a little bit which is we're talking about negotiating with with the firms we're not necessarily talking I mean I know we're talking about and we say best and final offer but we're really talking about a negotiated offer and it's really difficult to negotiate I think when you look at it all five firms um I think that would be very difficult for a negotiation team to sit down and sit across the table and try to negotiate terms with five different companies and come to that on on two option too so we're talking about two options with five firms there's there's a lot of things at play there and I think that becomes a really hard negotiation and I think and Bill might be able to correct me and or Jennifer um if we go back to all five firms we're rebidding we're not actually negotiating um and I think that opens up a can of worms um so I think we need to be very careful and and that is why staff is recommending we focus on the top two and if we have problems and we aren't able to agree and reach a negotiation with one or both we can have the option to continue down the list um but we'd like to stay focused on the top two so believe it with that duy noted can I ask a question yes um could you I think we we started to talk about this earlier but I I'm not sure I I understood and that was how close were the number two and number three which would have been uh Waste Management and Coastal waste and recycling something mentioned about they were in a dead heat is that is that correct in terms of the ranking in one of the options I think when we were in the second um in the second meeting there was a tie between um waste management and Coastal and they came up both and it was two two two they were both the second ranked um and there was ultimately um a tiebreaker and I think I was the tiebreaker so I will I will be honest that I was I was the one who who broke the tie and I can say that that the tie was for me was because when I ranked the proposals overall I felt Waste Management had a much better technical proposal um than Coastal but when you looked at the prices and and ultimately the price was 45 points of the initial ranking that you know those who had a lesser price ended up kind of going up even if they proposal wasn't necessarily as technically sound they ended up being a little bit higher in the initial ranking because of that price and the way that price factors into the overall overall ranking so um just wanted to clarify that but there was a tie if you will in those rankings in in the okay to to go further on that is the Committees were asked to to score one through three te sections one through three which were the technical proposals and the consultant and our purchasing manager provided them the score for the financial they even evaluated the financial component so the technical ranking is what the the is the number that you have for and do we have that separated from not in a single document not in a single document so I'm just to to to Sean's point if a firm had a high PR or low price they got a better score but they could have had a very low score for uh for the uh the actual technical component but then that inflated their score because they had a a low price and and it wouldn't be necessarily a really low technical score but maybe a me medium technical score but a low price and so that kind of ranked them higher than perhaps somebody who had a good technical but a much higher price and so the price the price variability kind of factored in and Jennifer has a had a formula for some of that if you come in at a low price you're kind of the Run number one if you come in at a higher price you're based off off of a of a factor you come in and and your points are based off of that variability and so um that kind of ended up pushing some with a higher price on a certain option to a lower lower rank so in other words they wait to be clear they waited the the price so in other words it's you I'll give the example because I have it right I have the RFP right here so vendor if their price proposal was three $3 million they got percentage of the 45 points if vendor B was 3.5 3.5 it was actually 86 because you basically took the 3 million divided by 3.5 and it got you 86% of those points so if it was 6 million they only got 50% because they're twice as high so so it was it was it was fair to all firms based on their price understood hold on hold on commissioner flesher had a comment and then back to you commissioner Moss I just and thank you for the clarification uh M leki uh you know gentlemen spoke about offering all five the opportunity you know going back and you know that's stuck in my mind and and hearing that right we'd be going back to negotiations full negotiations the only way to do that is to trash this and and go back I realized staff has put in a lot of time the committee put a lot of time but this decision factor for the next after two more years 10 more years it's so it's about a dozen years right okay with with the CPI going to be in there anyway and having endured this discussion I I don't know this reminds me of a steeple chase not of a negotiation and a decision for the greater good of the citizens of Indie River County I think there might be something to that about the having everybody bid again because quite frankly I don't see an $8 million adjustment in one category or a $2 million adjustment how valid was the first one to begin with if that can be dis that that 8 million can disappear or how valid was it that well you know we we do it for a few million less that's an awful lot of truck that's an awful lot of Labor and that's an awful lot of service to the citizens of indan River County whether we determine whether we're going to go with subscription or we're going to go with universal so the only way to get to that let's have every all five come in again since we do have a t we have a reasonable amount of time in our hands if we scrap where we're at right now and put it out again the pencils will be sharp everybody knows the numbers and those really hungry for this position will come in with razor sharp pencils that's just my thought if you really want to look at a true value and have both options available and if we narrowed it down to those two options put it out again because we've had a lot of pain in getting to where we've had to get to and we've seen what the citizens have said not all the citizens here today have spoken but they because I I think they're they might have stepped back because of all the decisions that had to be made to get to us to a point where we have now two pieces of fruit that now we have to decide what type of fruit salad we're going to have and I I I don't think that that's fair to our citizens if we have such a long range plan and sometime I think that if we scrap today and rebid I think we'll have a better result out from the shoot and be able to make a better decision for the citizens of any River County all right thank you commissioner Moss yes um and thank you for that information since two and three were were very close uh depending upon how different variables were weighted and requiring in the end a tiebreaker um I would move that we consider uh the top three in the negotiating process and that would be uh FCC waste management and Coastal waste and recycling all right there's a motion by commissioner Moss to negotiate with the top three firms FCC waste management and Coastal is there a second to commissioner Moss's motion all right that dies for lack of a second is there a substitute motion yeah I want to try that idea I just had okay how about we pause right now scrap this whole process oh sorry I I know you put a lot of work into it and rebid this and we'll get better results commissioner flusher and Madam chairman the problem with that is that we have to have some legal reason a very good reason to reject all proposals and ask for new ones there has been nothing that has been submitted on the record in the last three meetings that we have had to bring us to that point so I would strongly recommend that we do not reject all bids all proposals okay and that we proceed with okay you know the matter Wily heard commissioner Moss what was your motion again uh the motion was to go with the top three which was I'll second it for discussion and to try to move this in some Direction all right well nobody wants to make a motion so she's making one so I'm seconding yeah and just just to restate it since we have a question the top the top three or FCC uh waste management and Coastal waste and recycling of Florida okay chairman yes uh in all fairness um be to clarify in terms of the motion because the board looked is looking at getting negotiated prices for both option three and four I I would like to just clarify that if we go back to our ranking uh form we actually didn't have a one two3 clear uh FCC was was one uh uh waste management was two that's definitely evident when you look at option three and four we had Coastal as rank third for option three we had Republic uh rank third for option four so in all fairness and transparency based on the ranking that was approved if if you're authorizing staff to negotiate both options three and four all right well then this is just getting too complicated I will resend my second is there another second seeing none is there another motion Madam chair yes based on the information from staff and the fact that four vendes have scored between first second and third and in all fairness sharpen the pencils with all of them four including Republic who that motion's already been made and there was a lack of a second for it as far as the top four no top three no top three was made in top four in top four top four commissioner did top four staff would reiterate that that it recommends the top two because they Rose to the when you take the technical ranking with the financial that's why they're in one and two and and again we I forg staff recommendation was also to allow us to negotiate with 3 four and five if we should fail in bringing back a a solid price and a solid contract uh to the board so uh it it leaves the door open to negotiating with the other firms we don't have to come back to you at another time to ask you that we failed somehow for one reason or another with the top one or two uh but and and that's why we we've recommended that allow us to negotiate with the top two but leave the door open for the negotiation team to to have sort of that edge that we could go to the subsequent uh vendors if if the negotiation team needs to do that that we're asking for your approval today to allow us to do that that that that leaves the door open to all five uh but but we're going to start with the top two first they Rose to the top and and that's why we're recommending starting with them Madam chair uh so we do know that we've collectively voted on the rankings the first thing we did then we voted on uh the yard waste I think that was a 4-1 so we've gone with basically staff's recommendations so far so I will motion to negotiate with the top two which your staff has recommended with the potential of the other three being involved if something comes up with the other two I'll second it okay okay we have a motion by commissioner lore to negotiate with the top two which would be FCC and waste management with a second by commissioner Moss is there any discussion on that motion is there anybody from the public that wishes to speak on that motion John Castle Grandy Coastal waste and recycling I believe M uh hamash is incorrect on option three coastal is number two and if you put the they have the rankings for option for the option three and Coastal is ranked number two in that option so I I would ask they had it up there during the break I ask that that chart go up there again to show that postal is ranked number two on option three that Waste Management's ranked number you have it in your packet the screen we were looking at was our initial ranking that was the initial ranking not the final ranking that was what was on the the rankings for option three or FCC 1 Waste Management 2 Waste Pro 5 Republic 4 Coastal 3 for option four FCC 1 Waste Management 2 Waste Pro 5 Republic 3 Coastal 4 I just I I don't want to put words in commissioner L's mouth but I believe what he so correct me if I'm wrong but I believe what his motion was implied was that he was adopting those based on the initial rankings that we approved at the beginning of the meeting not based on um subsequent individual rankings it was based on the overall rankings that that we approved first motion I believe Mr kasag Grande was looking at we were looking at some of our um spreadsheets that we developed throughout the process on the screen earlier and one of the sheets we were looking at was compiling the initial scores for numbers um and it was actually after the initial ranking and not final ranking that the committee developed okay that was and it's all public record with theed corded Y correct okay all right there's a motion by commissioner lure with a second by yes I'm sorry go ahead I apologize good afternoon Madam chair fellow members Charles Merkley FCC director of Municipal sales and contracts uh I've been sitting patiently for a while here and uh I think you listen to your staff they are the experts they're the ones that went out on the street and saw what everybody's doing so I strongly support your staff's recommendation thank you thank you anybody else all right let's call the question all in favor opposed motion carries 5 to zero any more decisions to be made commission no thank you very much uh negotiation team will do our job we'll Hope to come back to you next month fantastic meeting adjourned